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1:20

I'm Francis Lam. This is the Splendid

1:22

table from APL. So

1:32

there's an old joke among restaurant cooks. About

1:34

cooking at home. The first step

1:36

of every recipe is to get your shoes out

1:38

of the oven. I guess that's joke really

1:40

about the kind of closet space that line cooks usually

1:43

have at home, but obviously it is a testament

1:45

to help seldom they really make food at home.

1:48

And for the chefs who do, you know,

1:50

so often it's just miniaturizing what

1:53

they do in the restaurant. You know, I had a chef friend

1:55

tell me that he lost his job in the pandemic. When

1:57

he was trying to make dinner at home, his wife walked

1:59

in, horrified to see him pasting

2:02

four Spears of Asparagus with a half a pound

2:04

of butter. But the

2:06

chef Gavin Kaysen is one of the

2:08

rare chefs I know who truly,

2:11

authentically, loves home

2:13

cooking. I don't just mean cooking at

2:15

home. I mean, he loves the kind of cooking

2:17

that doesn't require two prep cooks to

2:19

get you set up and two more dishwashers to

2:21

get your life back together afterwards. And

2:24

I guess that shouldn't have come as a real shock because

2:26

one thing I know about Gavin is

2:28

how much family and the idea

2:30

of home mattered to him. So

2:33

he was like all world

2:35

chef Daniel Balu's star, protege,

2:37

in New York. But instead of

2:39

following the expected path of opening

2:41

a fine dining temple, he and his

2:43

family decided to go back home to Minneapolis.

2:46

His kids can be closer to their relatives and

2:48

where he could serve his grandmother's pot roast to

2:50

a community who would get it. He's

2:53

the chef owner of spoon and stable,

2:55

Demi, Belkour bakery, and

2:57

Mara in Twin Cities, and is the

2:59

author of a new cookbook called No surprise,

3:02

at home. They join me for an

3:04

event for the Splendid table co op who are

3:06

some of our biggest supporters to talk

3:08

about why home cooking is so

3:10

important to him. Hey,

3:13

chef. It's so great to have you. Thanks so much for

3:15

joining us. Thanks for having me.

3:18

Hey, I have always been

3:21

such a fan of your food when you were here

3:23

in New York, like whether you were doing

3:25

like fried chicken or, you know, tweezer

3:27

and meticulous fine dining, your food

3:29

was always just so consistent and

3:31

excellent. And consistency, I think, is really

3:34

the mark of excellence. And

3:36

I'd noticed, like, I've had chance to time at spoon and stable,

3:38

and demi coming to

3:41

Minneapolis and you've only grown

3:44

even like from your time in New York.

3:48

A couple of minutes ago, I added

3:50

curiosity, took a look at my weather app on

3:52

my phone, and -- Yeah. -- going to

3:54

be negative seventeen degrees in

3:56

Minneapolis tonight. So the question

3:58

I have for you is, why

4:00

did you sign up for that? Like, you

4:02

could have just been restaurants literally any in the

4:04

world.

4:05

I know. And it's funny you say that because I

4:07

was in Sarasota, Florida the other

4:09

day, and it was eighty two degrees.

4:11

And I landed in Minneapolis and it was

4:13

negative twelve. And I had to remind

4:16

myself as we were landing over and over

4:18

again. I chose this. You

4:20

chose this. You chose this.

4:22

Like, it's okay. You know,

4:24

I I grew up in Minnesota. My family moved

4:26

there when I was seven years old. And

4:28

so that was that was that had always been home

4:31

to me. I I truthfully

4:33

never imagined that I would have moved back to

4:35

Minnesota, not for any sort

4:37

of snide Kaysen, but just because I just didn't

4:39

think about the the culinary

4:42

landscape there. I mean, I was so busy doing what

4:44

I was doing. And there

4:46

I was in New York City working for Danielle

4:48

Belode and and and one

4:50

of the great driving shoulders. Yeah.

4:52

And and and just not only just

4:54

an incredible chef, but an incredible hospitality

4:57

in. I mean, I really I got

4:59

I got the PhD of of this business

5:01

from him. And and

5:04

I learned so much, and I continue to learn so

5:06

much from him. I mean, that's that's the thing that

5:08

I that I'm so grateful for. I I

5:10

haven't worked for him for eight years, but I still feel

5:12

like I'm on his payroll because he

5:14

still calls me and says, hey, what's going on and checks

5:16

in and

5:16

like, you know, I still get nervous when he calls. Like, what

5:18

did I do? You know?

5:21

Yes,

5:21

Jeff. Yes, Jeff. I mean --

5:22

Yeah. -- hi. Hello. Yeah. Exactly. But

5:24

I was you know, I really I found

5:27

the space that is now spoon and stable. I

5:29

fell in love with the space. My wife and

5:32

I had two young children at the time. They're three

5:34

and five. They're now thirteen and eleven. And

5:37

and having them grow up near family was

5:39

important to the two of us. Mhmm. My

5:41

wife is from Sweden, just south of Stockholm.

5:44

So we didn't have her family in town,

5:46

and and my family was relatively

5:49

close in

5:49

comparison. And once I found

5:51

a spoon and stable space, I was kinda hooked.

5:54

Yeah. But so it's it was family.

5:56

It was a family choice. It was a lifestyle choice.

5:59

Yeah.

6:00

But, like, in terms of your food, in terms

6:02

of the cuisine, in terms of, you know, the way you

6:04

want to serve guests,

6:06

what was it about that place

6:08

or what is it about that place? You

6:12

know, it's interesting because the way that

6:14

the food has evolved in our

6:16

community in the last eight

6:18

years has been really inspiring. Mhmm. You

6:22

know, you see people

6:25

like Anne Kim growing into

6:27

her own that's not just Peachtree alone

6:29

anymore. Yeah. And Sean Sherman at

6:31

Alarmy and growing it's what he's doing. And,

6:34

you know, Chris steena Nugent at high high in her

6:36

restaurants. And the list kinda goes

6:38

on and on. But, you know,

6:40

what's what I what I don't wanna forget is

6:42

that the Demiko family was

6:45

was the family that really started sort of the restaurant

6:47

boom thirty years ago in the Twin Cities. I mean,

6:50

these are two brothers that moved from Cleveland.

6:52

To Minneapolis and opened up a bunch of restaurants

6:55

in Minneapolis and still have catering companies

6:57

there and and small little bakeries

6:59

and such and Had they not opened,

7:01

they wouldn't have spawned all of this

7:03

talent throughout the Twin Cities that have now

7:05

spawned another generation of talents.

7:08

So, you know, I think sometimes

7:10

when you take a step back from where

7:12

you are raised

7:14

and you for the world and then you look

7:16

back on it, it somehow looks a lot brighter

7:18

than when you left it. Mhmm.

7:20

And and the food that we create at

7:22

spoon and stable food that we created,

7:24

demi, the the the baked goods at the

7:26

bakery. You know, a lot of it comes

7:28

from from, yes, where I've traveled, where I've lived,

7:30

where I've worked, but there's there's

7:33

definition of the food that is very local in terms

7:35

of what we're able to use with our flowers, which

7:38

is very, you know, the Mill City is it's it's

7:40

all about our flower. You

7:42

know, and and what are the ingredients? And

7:44

what what I continuously fall in love with

7:46

in in that community is that I can be in

7:48

the middle of Minneapolis working in the kitchen

7:51

and I stick my arm out and twenty minutes later I'm

7:53

in a farm. And there's something

7:55

really special about being able to just get that

7:57

quickly connected to what is on

7:59

your

7:59

plates, what is in your refrigerator, what's on

8:01

your cutting board, and what is gonna be served to a guest

8:04

that night. Yeah. I love that.

8:07

So

8:07

obviously, like, so many chefs, you're really,

8:09

you know, driven by the ingredients and

8:11

the farmers and the and just like the natural

8:13

and the beauty of a

8:15

a well grown, well harvested,

8:18

responsibly harvested local ingredient.

8:20

But, you know, the chefs you named before and

8:22

Kim, Sean Sherman, Christine you know, they're also

8:24

they're also cooking extremely different

8:26

styles of food, John Sherman, really,

8:29

you know, his vision of what

8:31

indigenous food is

8:33

or could be. And Kim,

8:35

you know, making pizza growing famous

8:37

as a pizza chef, but really bringing her Korean American

8:41

background to what she does and Christina

8:43

Wynn, you know, with her Vietnamese flavors.

8:45

And so it's it's

8:48

interesting because to hear you talk about it, without

8:50

naming it as such. You're you're talking both about,

8:52

like, what comes from the

8:55

earth? Like, the very rich

8:57

earth of Minnesota, but also

8:59

like the diversity of these different chefs

9:01

and communities and

9:02

inspiration. So it's like the world is present

9:04

with you as well. Yeah. And

9:06

I and I think what's been really fun to watch

9:08

is to

9:10

watch not only the community of chefs wrap

9:13

themselves around what it is that they wanna what

9:15

they wanna serve to the guests, but more importantly,

9:18

the guests are excited to come and taste the food.

9:20

I mean, at end of the day, we don't

9:22

have business if we don't have people in the chairs.

9:25

So, you know, we can be as good as we wanna

9:27

be. We can be as consistent as we are. We can love

9:30

the farmers as much as we want. But, you

9:32

know, if you don't have butts and seeds, you're

9:34

not talking to anybody about what you're doing. And

9:37

and, you know, that there there's a

9:39

sense of pride when it comes to what it

9:41

is you're able to cook and serve. And

9:44

I and I think that that's really been special

9:46

to see grow in at least the eight

9:48

years that I've been

9:49

here. Yeah. It's been really fun

9:51

to watch and observe right on.

9:54

But we're also here to talk about your

9:56

book at home, which It's

9:59

funny you said that. I mean, obviously, you don't have a business

10:01

if you don't have guests coming in the restaurant. And

10:04

but the the sort of origin story

10:07

Like, the superhero origin story of this book,

10:09

right, started with the pandemic. Mhmm.

10:11

The restaurants were closed. You didn't have guests to serve.

10:14

And you started just

10:17

conducting Zoom cooking classes. Right?

10:20

Yeah. And and you loved how people were so

10:22

into cooking your food with you and so

10:24

you figured, hey, it's cookbook time. And

10:27

when we were talking yesterday, you said something

10:29

really interesting and that was that a book seller

10:31

said about this book, quote,

10:34

most most chef home cooking

10:36

books are still chef

10:38

books, but that your book is an exception.

10:40

What do you think That means.

10:44

Yeah, you know, that the whole start

10:46

and the origin of that, it really I credit

10:48

there there was a woman named Kylie Pertel

10:50

who was on my team. And she

10:53

really sort of pushed me to do what

10:55

was called GK at home and it was these online

10:57

cooking courses as you described. You

11:00

know, Francis, the first class we ever did

11:02

was a paella class, and I forgot

11:04

ingredients to put in the paella

11:06

and somebody was like, calling me out

11:08

on Zoom. And I'm like, listen, leave me alone. You know,

11:10

you just had home cooking. Like, you know,

11:13

we're not following the I mean, yes, we're following the

11:15

rest of you. But leave me alone. And

11:17

that we had,

11:17

like, hundred and fifty people

11:20

on that Zoom Zoom class, which

11:22

I was blown away that a hundred and fifty

11:24

people cared that much to tune it six o'clock

11:26

in watches

11:26

cook. Well, in our next class, we

11:29

had almost a thousand people

11:31

on our next class. And it

11:33

just kept growing and growing and growing.

11:36

And what was remarkable to

11:38

me is that we saw what

11:41

we were doing was building a community. And

11:44

regardless of if you have a restaurant that

11:46

people can come into or not, that's

11:48

that's what you're doing. If you have a restaurant,

11:50

you're doing that with and for the community.

11:52

Mhmm. And and you bring people together

11:55

to your table. And so when we when When

11:57

we took a when we took a look back at all

11:59

of the recipes we had produced for the show

12:02

and for the online classes, we

12:04

had upwards to eighty recipes, and so we

12:06

needed, you know, thirty, forty, fifty more

12:08

recipes to make it a quote unquote,

12:11

you know, standard cookbook of a hundred and twenty

12:13

recipes. Sure. And

12:16

Kylie and my other colleague,

12:18

Erin, followed me

12:20

around the kitchen as

12:23

we were testing these recipes out

12:25

with their computer. And I was, Kaysen I had

12:27

some salt. It's about how much salt. I said just

12:30

pinch of salt. I don't know. They're like it, but

12:32

how much salt? And so we would go through

12:34

this like painstaking recipe

12:37

testing. But then what what really made it

12:40

the cookbook to me that is for the

12:42

the consumer at home to use is

12:44

that we tested this on on eighty different

12:46

classes. So we were getting live

12:49

questions from the guest of

12:51

saying, like, wait a minute. Wait a minute. You said

12:53

I had two tables ones of flour. When

12:55

do I add that? Okay, that's a really

12:57

good point. Maybe we weren't clear in our instructions

12:59

to you. Let's go back and fix that for

13:01

the book because we didn't do it for you in the class

13:04

tonight. Because I had the pleasure

13:06

and and and and, you know,

13:08

I was lucky enough to just say, oh, no. No.

13:10

Sorry. We made a mistake. It's this. You

13:13

can't do that in a cookbook. Yeah. Because they

13:15

bought the

13:15

book. So

13:16

And they're they're ruined. And they're Yeah. They're dinners.

13:19

Yeah. Exactly. I mean, we had this one we

13:21

were doing this one class. We were doing CocoVon,

13:24

and we were making Spezil, and you were supposed

13:26

take two cups of flour for the special and

13:29

two tablespoons of flour for

13:31

the rue to mip for the sauce for the coconut.

13:34

For the wine sides for the chicken? Yep. Exactly.

13:36

And the guest says, oh, you know,

13:38

chef, what if you put all two cups

13:40

plus two tablespoons of flour into the wine

13:42

sauce to thicken it? And I like

13:44

deadpan the camera. I'm like just throwing the trash.

13:47

There's, like, there's nothing you

13:49

can do at this point. But that's That

13:51

to me is kinda how we got the book to

13:53

where it was, and that was a really amazing compliment

13:56

to hear that that the book has done that

13:58

for people.

14:00

We'll be back with more of the chef Gavin Kaysen,

14:03

author of At Home. I'm Francis

14:05

Lamb, and this is the Splendid Table from

14:07

APM.

14:11

The Splendor table is supported by First

14:14

Republic Bank. You set your financial

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To find out more about First Republic's extraordinary

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com. Member FDIC, Equal

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Housing Lender. Our show is supported

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by Made in Cookware. Back by hundred

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and home kitchens alike. So in this

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episode, Kaysen and I have been talking about

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Day sale running from February seventeenth

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through February twentieth. I'm

15:59

Francis Lam, and this is the show for curious

16:01

cooks and eaters. Spending time today

16:03

with the Twin Cities culinary star, Kaysen,

16:05

who is the rare chef who really

16:08

loves home cooking. His debut

16:10

cookbook is called at home. It's

16:12

get back to it. You

16:16

know, so I work on cookbooks a

16:18

lot and, you

16:21

know, we do very often

16:23

say to our authors, particularly

16:25

if they are chefs. I think this

16:27

recipe is a little bit chevy. Mhmm.

16:30

Or, you know, or is

16:32

this too Sheffy? And in

16:34

some cases, you know, that's exactly what you want. If this

16:36

is, like, oh, the the great book

16:38

of whatever great chef, the recipes exactly

16:40

is intended, you know, da da da da da da. And, like, that's

16:42

like a keepsake of the restaurant. But

16:45

most people at home aren't really cooking that And if

16:47

they're buying that kind of book, maybe it's more as souvenir

16:49

from the time they went or they've heard great things

16:51

or they love the photos or whatever whatever whatever.

16:54

But they're not necessarily meant to you know, get

16:56

dinner on someone's table on

16:58

a Saturday night or let

17:00

alone Tuesday

17:01

night. Yeah. So we've

17:03

seen we've seen people you

17:05

know, take this book and make these recipes

17:08

every day and send us photos.

17:10

Yeah. But so how did you think

17:12

about that? Like, We actually had a question

17:14

from a listener. When a chef is writing

17:16

a

17:17

cookbook, what's the biggest difference for

17:19

a home cook that the chef has to factor in?

17:23

You know, III think I was lucky

17:26

in that. I have two children who are

17:28

very opinionated for that when I come.

17:31

And so I'm factoring in them. And I'm

17:33

also factoring in what every

17:35

other parent is probably factoring in at

17:37

home or person who's cooking at home, which

17:39

is You don't have the luxury of

17:41

time. You don't have the luxury of prep

17:43

cooks. You don't have the luxury of a dishwasher. Doing

17:46

your dishes and cleaning up after every move.

17:49

And so we really try to, like, break down

17:51

things for you and say,

17:53

like, look, here's how I do it. Okay? I

17:56

I prep all of my food and I put it in

17:58

little tiny containers and they're called meson

18:00

plus containers and I know that's a very chef y

18:02

thing. But I'm putting it in like

18:05

glass bowls that you and I have at home and they

18:07

don't match and it doesn't look perfect. And

18:10

what it's going to do is it's gonna make the cooking

18:12

process faster, easier, and less

18:14

stressful. And then when that's cooking,

18:16

I can turn around and can put it in my dishwasher

18:18

and I don't have to worry about doing dishes later. So

18:20

we really I mean, honestly, ninety

18:24

plus percent of the recipes that are in the book,

18:26

I genuinely cook that food at home

18:28

for my family. Yeah. And

18:30

and I've been able to factor in,

18:33

oh, you know what? I don't have the right salt because

18:35

that happens when you're at home. Oh my god. I don't have

18:37

enough butter. Oh, I forgot to get that

18:40

vinegar. Okay. What do I do if I don't have the vinegar

18:42

that I normally use for this recipe?

18:44

Yeah. What's my what's my hack? And

18:47

then once I know that hack, it's

18:49

in the book. Here's a hack. This is what

18:51

you can do or oh, you broke this sauce.

18:54

Let's fix it. No problem.

18:55

Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. Right?

18:57

Because it's one of these things where when

19:01

you're chef and you're cooking in the restaurant, I

19:03

mentioned before consistency. Right? So consistency

19:05

is everything. You don't you never wanna guess to come in on

19:07

Monday, have this great dish,

19:09

tell their friends about it. They come in the next

19:11

Saturday, and it's either different

19:13

or, you know, it it's just doesn't

19:16

it's just not as good as when, you know,

19:18

as as when Jane came in and started

19:20

raving about it. So Yeah. And consistency means

19:23

you get the same ingredients, you make sure the vinegar

19:25

is the same, you make sure all that stuff

19:27

is is locked in

19:28

tight. When you're home

19:30

cooking, it's kinda different

19:33

vibe. It

19:34

is You know, it's a

19:34

very different vibe. You you don't need that

19:37

And so one thing that I think

19:40

is is sometimes

19:42

lost in translation when chefs are talking to

19:44

home cooks. Sort

19:46

of exactly what you're talking about. You don't have that vinegar?

19:49

It's okay. Here's what I would do.

19:51

I got I got lemon. I got a

19:53

kind of

19:53

vinegar. That kind of video has been a little more sharp.

19:55

Right? Like, you maybe add a little bit of sugar to it to,

19:57

like, balance it out.

20:00

Yep. But let me ask you this.

20:02

But in terms of not just in

20:04

terms of, like, technique or

20:07

the how to or, you know, what a chef's habits

20:09

are, But in terms of like the emotional

20:11

feeling you have or creativity

20:14

or however you describe it, what is the

20:16

difference for you as

20:18

a home cook? Versus you as

20:20

a cook in your

20:21

restaurant. I think the

20:23

biggest difference is that as a cook at the restaurant,

20:25

I have to think to myself, how can we make sure

20:27

that the cooks make this consistently for

20:30

two hundred people a night. Because

20:32

the cooks are cooking the food, I'm not

20:34

cooking every dish that goes out in my restaurant.

20:37

Sure. Right? As as as

20:40

crazy as that might seem to be. We

20:42

were not back there. Right? We are not back

20:44

there making every every plate of food.

20:46

But at home, as you said,

20:48

I mean, there's there's there's little bit more of a

20:51

relaxation to it. You know? I cook at

20:53

home a lot. And the reason I cook at home

20:55

is because it gives me a lot of

20:57

peace. You

20:59

know, when we Even when even in

21:01

my family and I go on vacation, we

21:03

we are very intentional about making sure

21:05

that we rent a house versus stay in a hotel

21:08

because by day three, I wanna be cooking.

21:11

And and it's it's not because

21:14

I'm bored. It's not because I'm upset.

21:16

It's because nourishing my family

21:19

is really important to me. And

21:21

I and I take a lot of pride in in

21:23

in having time to sit down with them

21:25

and share with them what I love so deeply,

21:28

which is to cook and to serve people.

21:30

And I think I've learned over time especially

21:32

watching my kids grow up is that you

21:35

know, the my kids have a front row

21:38

seats of seeing their dad do

21:41

something that he loves every single

21:43

day, day in and day out, whether I'm

21:45

at the restaurants or whether I'm at home,

21:47

I meet it with the same amount of passion and love.

21:49

It's just that the restaurants, it's very different because

21:51

it has to be systematic. There has to be

21:54

consistency in the in in discipline

21:56

and focus and drive, and it's so

21:58

different. But when you're at the when you're at your house, it's

22:01

you know, we had a plan for dinner tonight, but we went

22:03

to the farmer's market, and our plan changed.

22:05

And so now we're gonna make this instead.

22:09

And and it's just it's really special

22:11

to be able to have that time where I can just,

22:14

for a couple of hours, be in my own kitchen

22:16

with no time regimen, no routine

22:19

of, you know, you need service starts at 775, you

22:21

got pre shifted for, you know, all

22:24

these meetings, etcetera. I just get to

22:26

cook.

22:26

Yeah. You have some

22:28

favorite recipes in the book and you'd mentioned to me

22:30

that speaking of your kids,

22:33

when you make with them a lot is

22:36

roast chicken with sweet potato

22:38

hash. Tell us about it. Yes.

22:40

So this is this is a fun I love

22:42

this dish. I love to do the the the

22:45

technique of spatchcocking when you take out the

22:47

back part of the bone and you split the bird so it lays

22:49

flat. It's the most, for me, it's the most consistent

22:52

way to cook the chicken. The breast

22:54

is cooked perfectly when the legs are cooked.

22:56

It's easy to see, and you can get

22:58

the skin nice and crispy. So we put

23:01

like a North African spice rub

23:03

on the bird and we let it marinate. And

23:05

then we we bake, you know, we we roast it

23:07

in the oven. Sweet potato

23:09

hash, we just basically make hash pounds out of sweet

23:11

potatoes and a little bit of Idaho potato. Mhmm.

23:14

Or Yukon Gold, whatever. And

23:16

charred broccoli or broccoli rub, with

23:19

slivered look slivered garlic, lemon zest,

23:21

and lemon juice. And I'll

23:23

talk about consistency. I remember one time I made

23:25

this for my family. On a Sunday,

23:28

and then I made the exact same

23:30

chicken the following Sunday. And Julius,

23:32

my eleven year old looks me. He's just, you know, dad.

23:35

I mean, last week was probably like an eight

23:37

point two out of ten. This week's like seven

23:39

point nine. I'm like, what?

23:42

What's What's above an eight point

23:44

two for you? Because that was an amazing chicken

23:46

we just had, number one. Number two, it was

23:48

the same recipe. You

23:51

know, and he's like, well, You know? And so

23:54

there is some humility in seeing your eleven

23:56

year old or thirteen year old judge your food so quickly.

24:00

But it's easy to feed. My

24:02

my thirteen year old is very easy to feed. He has

24:04

a he is really good pallet. My eleven

24:06

year old is a lot harder to feed. He just seems to be

24:08

a little bit more particular about what he likes. He's

24:10

also very routine based in what he eats.

24:12

And so there's just not a lot of, like, let me

24:15

venture out. But, you know, it's funny to my

24:17

wife and I have a third son who's who's only eight

24:19

months old now. And congratulations,

24:21

which is I know it's crazy. As I

24:23

always joke, I resign my lease, you know.

24:27

But my we we were talking

24:29

about we were talking about baby food the other

24:31

day because our baby, like, will not

24:33

eat parapire or

24:36

anything like that. Like, he just spits

24:38

it out and then I'm making some

24:40

marinara sauce from my other two kids

24:42

other Kaysen I give him a little spoon in marinara

24:44

sauce and he like smiles ear to ear, he loves

24:46

it. And I realized when when

24:48

a meal, our oldest son was a baby and had start,

24:51

we used to put, like, parmesan cheese in

24:53

his baby food to, like, blend it because he loves

24:55

salt. And so we could just

24:57

add, like, a little bit of parmesan cheese for salt. So I

24:59

think our third son is the salt baby too.

25:01

I think that's what it is. Right

25:04

on. I mean, III definitely

25:06

feel that I I thought you

25:08

were really happy to eat yesterday.

25:11

Why not today? I definitely feel

25:13

back. Kills me. Yeah.

25:16

Let me get back to spatch talking for second for those

25:18

who don't know. So the technique

25:20

of spatch talking is so, you know, you have the

25:22

you have the bird. And what you do is

25:24

you actually just you you follow you

25:27

find the backbone of the bird. That's

25:29

right. And you just basically cut it out.

25:31

You cut down one side of it, cut down the other side of

25:33

it, and you take the whole thing out. And then when that's

25:35

gone, you like can open up

25:37

like a book and you kinda

25:39

flatten it

25:40

out. And so instead of cooking a cylinder,

25:42

you're basically now cooking like a like

25:44

a a more flat object, which lets it cook

25:46

more even. Yeah. And then once you once you take the

25:48

backbone out and flip it

25:49

over. You just put a little like, you just

25:52

cut the breastplate just little bit,

25:54

and then that opens the bird completely. And

25:56

then You just sort of lay it flat. I

26:00

typically cook mine at four twenty five

26:02

or four

26:02

fifty, but four twenty five or forty five

26:05

minutes. And then I let it rest for about

26:07

fifteen to eighteen minutes. Yeah.

26:09

And it's it's really incredible. Like,

26:12

I love a chicken. But it's like,

26:14

oh, you're it's really hard to cook something

26:16

that is shaped kind of like a football.

26:19

You know, it's like, one part is thicker,

26:21

the other part is thinner, and when you flatten

26:23

it out, you actually remove a lot of that variance

26:25

and the even cut really comes that

26:27

way. Yeah. And you don't really have to go through the

26:29

whole process of like, okay. Let me show you how to trust

26:31

this bird. And now let's go get butchered

26:33

twine. And, you know, we talked about things like

26:35

that for the cookbook as well and it's like,

26:38

I mean, I'm a professional chef

26:40

and I don't I don't have butcher

26:42

twine at the regular at my house either. You

26:44

know? So it's like, do I really expect

26:46

somebody to go out and buy butcher twine and say

26:48

come back and then trust their chicken? And then

26:50

marinate it, and roast it. I mean, I

26:52

love it, and I do it sometimes as well.

26:54

But if if you were to say to me, hey,

26:57

we need dinner at six:thirty tonight,

26:59

and the kid it's at baseball and hockey, and you can

27:01

run home and throw the chicken in the oven.

27:04

It's it's like, I'll run home and scratchcock

27:07

the chicken, marinate it, pop it in the oven,

27:09

dinner's ready in sixty minutes. I'm out.

27:11

Right on. Today's ready.

27:13

I'm

27:13

out. This is this is this is this is really the

27:15

home cook the home cook lifestyle. That's

27:18

it. I don't know. Alright. So we had

27:21

a whole bunch of listeners sending

27:24

questions for you. I'd love to take

27:26

someone with you. Ready? Yeah. Alright.

27:28

Well, this is this is one from

27:30

both Kathy and Frank. So two

27:33

people ask this question. And

27:35

it's very simple. Why

27:37

can't I make brown butter?

27:42

I should never answer a question with the question,

27:45

but question I would have is do you walk away

27:47

when the butter is browning?

27:50

It's interesting. Okay. So so let's get

27:52

I mean, obviously, we can't know why Cathy and friend

27:54

can't make brown

27:55

butter. But what is

27:57

it with brown butter? Chefs love

27:59

brown butter. Because

28:02

it's it's it

28:05

just gives a different flavor, you know. I mean,

28:07

it it gives it this sort of like it

28:09

it gives butter sort of this hazelnut. Flavor

28:12

to it, and it and it's really delicious.

28:14

I mean, brown I got into

28:16

a big debate on a local radio show in Minneapolis

28:19

about brown butter and and rice crispy

28:21

bars. I mean, it's a big deal brown butter rice

28:23

crispy bars. I'm I'm not a brown

28:25

butter rice crispy bar

28:26

person, but it is delicious. You

28:28

know, the easiest way to do brown butter in

28:30

which the way that we do it for the restaurants, which

28:32

is probably not

28:34

well, I know it is not how they teach you in culinary

28:36

school,

28:36

but I put all the butter

28:38

in the pot and and I sort of dice the

28:40

butter up very similar and

28:42

large dice I put in pot and then I turn

28:44

the pot on high. And

28:47

once the butter starts to boil, then

28:50

I turn it off and you just see the milk salads

28:53

drop to the bottom and and slowly

28:55

start to burn and caramelize. The trick is

28:57

then taking it off fast enough and and

28:59

pouring it through a a shiroir or

29:01

a or a cheese cloth or

29:03

or coffee

29:04

filter. I mean, I would have a coffee filter

29:06

at home. I'm not I don't have a stash

29:08

of cheese cloth at home. So But,

29:11

yeah, I love brown butter. Yeah. So

29:13

the idea of it is you cook

29:15

the butter until it separates and you get

29:18

the little, you know, white the little

29:20

white things at the bottom of the butter, what a few melted is

29:22

is actually milk solids. Right? And that's protein

29:24

and and sugars. And you're basically

29:26

caramelizing those, but trying not to burn

29:28

them and then you stream

29:30

those things out. So what exactly

29:33

is just the melted butter

29:35

infused with that flavor. That's right.

29:37

And what do you do with what

29:40

do you do with your brown

29:42

butter? Like you said, you could substitute

29:44

it for butter and rice krispies

29:46

treats? What are the fun ways to use

29:48

it? If you were to make like a veal

29:50

cutlet and you were to sear a veal cutlet

29:52

in the pan and then, you know, at the end

29:54

after the after the veal is sear or the chicken

29:57

or whatever it is that you're cooking in the pan.

29:59

You take that out, you add some brown butter,

30:01

add some shallots, capers, a little bit

30:03

of lemon zest, lemon juice, and

30:05

now you have a pan sauce, a very simple

30:08

pan sauce. We actually have a recipe in the book

30:11

that does that. And

30:13

we do it with pork. As as a matter

30:15

of fact, we take pork loin and and we

30:17

we we pound the pork loin down to a little

30:19

cutlet and then sear that in

30:21

the pan and make a brown butter

30:23

paper sauce. So it makes very

30:25

simple sauces. Mhmm. You can

30:27

make a very delicious vinegar out of brown butter

30:29

as well. Oh, cool. So instead of using instead

30:32

of using just an olive

30:34

oil or a neutral oil, you would use

30:36

a percentage of brown butter, probably half brown

30:39

butter. Okay. And then some sort of, like

30:41

in that case, I would probably use, like, an avocado

30:44

oil something that's very neutral so don't get any

30:46

of the bitterness of an olive oil.

30:48

Okay. But that would be a delicious

30:50

vinaigrette. I mean, imagine a brown butter vinaigrette

30:52

would say like poach lobster

30:54

salad. I mean, that's delicious

30:56

avocado. That's just like we have lying

30:58

at home. The leftover Yeah. Lobster salad.

31:01

I

31:01

mean, who doesn't have a poach lobster at home?

31:03

Come on. Tuna

31:07

salad, brown butter, tuna salad. Does that sound

31:08

okay? That

31:09

sounds good. The tuna has to be fresh. Okay. You

31:11

can take it out of the can. I'll forgive you once.

31:15

I love that. Okay. But but how would you keep okay.

31:18

So I always have a question about

31:21

then it gets using butter because butter wants to

31:23

solidify when it's non warm.

31:26

So does it

31:28

get hard, getting goopy

31:30

or how No. I mean, it it it'll

31:32

most likely solidify it. That's okay. I

31:34

mean, when when you go then to need

31:37

the vinaigrette again, you know what I'll do

31:39

is put it in the microwave for like ten seconds

31:42

to just sort of melt it and then

31:44

I I always keep my vinaigrette's in a Kaysen

31:46

jar. Okay. And then I'll take the

31:48

the lid off. I'll add maybe like

31:51

a teaspoon of water, and

31:53

then I'll shake it back up in the mason jar and the

31:56

dinner that's been saved. I mean,

31:58

water basically saves everything when

32:00

it comes to a broken saucer of dinner in the

32:02

kitchen. Water is magic. That's

32:05

a great tip. Yep. Alright. Let's

32:07

go to we

32:10

have so many questions, like, I keep screwing this

32:12

up. Let's go to a more positive one.

32:17

This is from Jackie. Are there

32:19

prepared products that are okay to use versus

32:22

doing it yourself? Garlic paste,

32:24

prepared marinara, etcetera? So

32:26

what prepared products? Convenience products

32:28

do you

32:29

like? Oh, yeah. I think there is for

32:31

sure. I mean, for example, like a sofrito,

32:33

So if you're making paella at home

32:36

or something like that and you need a sofrito. I mean,

32:38

sofrito is typically onions

32:40

and garlic. Some sort of mirror

32:42

pla, and then it's cooked down. Mhmm. And then

32:44

you cook it with tomatoes and then you have to puree

32:47

it. It's a process. It's like a

32:49

long process. And I I wouldn't wish that on

32:51

anybody to have to make that at home. I

32:53

mean, I buy I buy jars ofrito all

32:55

the time. Really?

32:57

You can name names, like other brands

33:00

that you that you go for? No. You know, I don't

33:02

I don't it starts with an m. I'd have to look,

33:04

but I we we buy it from a

33:06

local store near our house, and

33:10

it's delicious. But I think I think there

33:12

are products like that where it's

33:15

not worth making it

33:17

on your own. You know, there are certain curry

33:19

pastes that you can buy that

33:21

that are just as good as if you were to make your

33:23

own curry. I mean, we have a curry recipe

33:25

in the book, but it's, you know, it's fourteen ingredients.

33:28

I mean, you have to have lime leaves.

33:30

You have to, like, all of these specific

33:32

ingredients, which is great, but it's gonna it's

33:34

gonna take you two hours to shop for it. So

33:37

maybe there's a curry paste that you can buy that's

33:39

that's simple and delicious, you

33:41

know. And I think that that's worth it. Yeah.

33:43

Yeah.

33:44

Especially, I mean, what you're talking about too are

33:46

are kind of flavor based things.

33:48

Mhmm. Like the sofrito is the is the first

33:51

layer of the flavor base. The curry

33:53

paste is, you know, the

33:55

first and probably the main, but like it's the layer

33:57

of the flavor base. And so it's like you're going

33:59

to add other ingredients to it. You're going to add fresh ingredients

34:01

to it. You're going add coconut milk or you're going to

34:03

add in the sofrito, you're gonna add stock

34:06

and you have rice. And, you know, so it's not

34:08

the only flavor. think it's kind of

34:10

I think it's kind of what you're getting at too. Right? Like

34:12

stuff that you're gonna continue to cook and add fresh

34:14

ingredients to and that flavor will

34:17

become part of the mix and you don't have to rely on

34:19

it as being

34:19

oh, I opened a jar and whatever they opened

34:21

a jar is gonna be my main flavor at dinner.

34:24

Do

34:24

you do preserved lemons in your house all the time?

34:27

Absolutely not. But right. little

34:29

I mean and and I don't either. But

34:31

every once in a while, I'll do it. But I will buy a jar

34:33

of preserved lemons because there are some really,

34:35

really delicious jar of preserved lemons that

34:38

they do an amazing job with. You buy

34:40

that, you keep it in your fridge. To

34:42

your point, now you have another layer of

34:44

flavor that you can add a preserved lemon to because

34:46

you're gonna you're piece of fish for dinner tonight

34:48

where you have a jar of pukyo peppers in your

34:50

fridge. have a jar of preserved lemons

34:52

and you have olives. You

34:54

also have shallots Okay. So now you take

34:56

chopped shallots, chopped olives, chopped

34:59

preserved lemon, chopped tequila

35:00

peppers, a bit of olive oil,

35:02

and maybe some lemon juice or sherry vinegar, whatever

35:04

you have, like, mixed together. You put it on the fish,

35:07

it's done. You have a relish? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

35:10

Preserve lemons are so good too. They're like

35:12

so good. Lemons that have been

35:15

salted and then they, like, they released

35:17

their own juice. They

35:18

kinda, like, brine and pickle in their own juice.

35:20

And they're still tarte. They're

35:22

kind of like darker and mustier

35:24

and salty and It's so

35:26

good. They just they added depth to flavor

35:29

whether you're eating something with fish or I

35:31

mean, they

35:31

stand up to any any meat protein. You'll

35:33

ever eat, they'll stand up to it. Coming

35:36

up, more with Gavin Kaysen, author

35:39

of At Home. I'm Francis Lam,

35:41

and this is the Splendid table from APM.

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38:01

I'm Francis Lam, and this is a show for curious

38:03

cooks and eaters. We're spending the hour

38:05

today with our friend, the chef Gavin Kaysen,

38:07

owner of spoon and stable and demi

38:10

in Minneapolis. So we've recorded

38:12

in front of a Zoom audience of blended table co

38:14

op members. Thanks for one. And

38:16

he took some of their cooking questions. Let's

38:18

go back to it with him. We

38:21

have a question from Hillary. I'd like to know

38:23

an easy delicious approach to take frozen

38:26

salmon filets out of the freezer and get

38:28

them onto my dinner table. So

38:30

if you have salmon filets

38:32

that are frozen, you

38:35

know, the ideal way of defrosting

38:38

them is you figure you'll have them for dinner tomorrow

38:40

or the next day, you take them out of the freezer, put them in

38:42

the fridge, and then just let them slowly defrost.

38:47

If your salmon fillets are in fact frozen

38:49

and you have to have dinner on the table in

38:52

twenty, thirty minutes or whatever, what do you

38:54

do? Yeah.

38:56

I mean, you would have to run the salmon fillet.

38:59

Keep it in the bag or the pouch or whatever it's,

39:01

you know, sealed in. Mhmm. You

39:03

know, run it under cold water. That

39:06

will thaw out the fish pretty quickly. I mean salmon,

39:09

thankfully, is a is a very fatty fish. Mhmm.

39:11

And so that fat that fat will melt, will

39:14

break down rather fast when you're when you're

39:16

trying to thought with the water. I'll

39:19

give plug to friend of mine who you know Lior,

39:21

who has that shot New York City. Ludwig

39:23

is a piece, which is a great shot, but always

39:25

a bad name because it's all in French and harder

39:28

to say. But he has a great

39:31

he has a lot of great spice blends. And

39:33

you talk about something that you wanna get on to

39:35

your dinner table quickly.

39:37

We have a recipe in our book that has one of his spice

39:39

blends. With salmon. We

39:42

take out the salmon fillet. We

39:45

we we pat it down as dry as we can.

39:47

We paint the salmon fillet with a bit of

39:49

dijon moss stirred. We put some of his

39:51

spice blend on there, and we just

39:53

roasted in the oven very low

39:55

heat for like eighteen minutes. And

39:57

it comes out and it's perfectly cooked and

39:59

it's absolutely delicious.

40:02

If we don't have lior spice blends, what

40:04

what kind of if

40:06

you're sort of freestyling

40:09

a spice mix on on that. On

40:11

the mustard painted salmon, what would you do?

40:13

Yeah. So I would probably use like a sweet

40:15

paprika, garlic garlic

40:18

powder, onion powder, fennel

40:20

seeds. I'd mix all of that together.

40:23

Inside of the maybe, like, a more own pestle

40:25

or something that that just sort of pushes

40:27

it all through. Mhmm. And then and then

40:29

push that onto my on my

40:31

fish.

40:32

Yeah. And when you say it roasted a low heat, so you're

40:34

not trying to get a crispy skin? No.

40:37

No. In fact, I I love

40:39

crispy skin on salmon, but in when

40:41

you're when you're cooking something that's going from

40:43

frozen to thaw to on the table within

40:46

an hour, you're better

40:48

off cooking it at a lower heat versus

40:50

a higher eat because you've extracted

40:53

so much of the liquid already out of the

40:55

salmon, then if you cook it at a high

40:57

heat, it's try it doesn't know how to, like, go

40:59

back in. So it'll it will frankly,

41:01

the fish will be dry. Okay. You almost wanna

41:03

think to yourself. You almost wanna think that you're gonna

41:05

kinda, like, slowly roasted or slowly poach

41:07

it. And it's delicious.

41:09

I mean, that's the other way to cook the salmon quickly

41:11

would be to poach it. Take a pot

41:13

of water, put in fennel seeds, peppercorn

41:16

seeds, Maybe you have a whole ball of

41:17

fennel, throw that in, throw a couple of slices

41:20

lemon in a shallot, and slowly poached

41:22

the salmon. So,

41:24

like, when you're approaching I mean,

41:27

like, almost no bubbling. Right?

41:29

Like, super, super low.

41:32

And you just slip salt the

41:33

salmon, just slip it in. Mhmm. Yeah.

41:36

I would bring it I would bring

41:38

it Eric Repair has I think the best coaching

41:40

technique of all time. But basically, you

41:42

bring the poaching liquid to high heat.

41:45

And then you turn it off, you pour the poaching liquid

41:47

in a shallow pan. Okay?

41:49

And then you and then you season it and then

41:51

you just put the fish. So, like, the

41:53

fish is like halfway submerged in the

41:55

poaching liquid. Okay. And then just

41:57

put it in the oven. At, like, three twenty

42:00

775, and just let it cook sort

42:02

of, like, poached and roast at the same time.

42:05

Alright. It's so delicious. And,

42:07

like, because it's in the liquid,

42:10

it won't it can't get too hot. Yep.

42:12

Right? Because the liquid's the liquid's gonna sort of

42:15

moderate the temperature it

42:17

won't dry out. And you're

42:19

not gonna get this sort of, you

42:21

know, you're not gonna get a piece of fish

42:23

that is that is

42:24

watery. It's just really really spot

42:26

on. Yeah. Okay.

42:28

Let's go to Michael. I

42:31

keep burning garlic and onions when I saute them

42:33

in

42:33

oil. What tips can you give me

42:36

so this doesn't

42:36

happen? I would

42:39

say the first tip is turn your heat down.

42:41

Yeah. Because it's probably just too hot. And

42:43

it sounds to me like he's probably putting in the

42:45

garlic and the onion

42:47

maybe at the wrong time, you know.

42:49

Oh, we don't know about that. Well, I guess

42:52

the question is, let's say he's if he's

42:54

making, let's say he's making Charlie

42:56

Rock, and you want to add garlic

42:58

and onions. Well, the broccoli wrap in your pan is

43:00

gonna take eight to ten minutes to cook.

43:03

So you're better off just putting the broccoli

43:05

wrap in your high high heat pan first.

43:07

Okay? Then in the last thirty seconds

43:09

before you take it off, you

43:12

throw your onions and your garlic in, give

43:14

it a squeeze of lemon juice and you have

43:16

broccoli raw. But it sounds like he's probably putting

43:18

in putting it in too

43:20

early. Yeah. Or maybe the pan is

43:22

too hot. Pan is definitely too hot. Yeah. Yeah.

43:24

You know, I I wanna talk about this for

43:26

a second too. I was taught

43:29

this is one of the sort of

43:31

lasting lessons, I remember learning in culinary

43:33

school. And I was when a chef

43:35

told me, what

43:38

you put in a

43:40

dish, you will

43:42

taste in reverse order. Mhmm.

43:45

And what he meant was if you're starting,

43:47

for example, like we're talking about. Right? If you're starting

43:50

a a

43:50

pan, a sauce, or a

43:52

pasta, or whatever,

43:54

in a saute pan with oil,

43:57

onions, and garlic, and then you add in, you

43:59

know, whatever your other flavors are, and then

44:01

you finished off the dish.

44:03

When you're tasting it, the onions and garlic are

44:05

probably not going to be

44:07

the main flavor you taste. Right?

44:10

Right. They're kind of in the background. They're, like,

44:12

sweet. They have that, like, allium flavor, but they're

44:14

probably not the unless it's, like, a ton of it.

44:17

But if you squeeze

44:19

lemon on to that dish

44:22

right before you serve it, the first thing you'll taste

44:24

is lemon. So that that was the idea. Right?

44:26

But the last thing you put on is the

44:28

first thing you'll taste and all the way back down to the

44:30

end. Like, and then the onion garlic are just sort of in

44:32

the background. And I love what you said about the

44:35

timing of using your onion and garlic. So

44:37

if you're starting something beginning with it, like, again,

44:39

it's background flavor. But the broccoli, Rob,

44:41

you said, oh, I'll throw in some

44:43

minced garlic right at the very end and just

44:45

cook it for thirty seconds. Mhmm. And

44:47

we all know that flavor when you're

44:49

eating, you know, greens, but sauteed,

44:52

garlic and you have that, like, big punch of garlic

44:54

and then the kind of bitter greens after it. It's just

44:57

like one of the most, you know, classic beautiful

44:59

rustic combinations known to known

45:02

to man. Mhmm. But

45:04

I think being intentional about when you add

45:06

that garlic or when you add that lemon

45:09

or when you add the, you know, top the bottoms

45:11

or whatever. It's

45:13

also just a cool way. Not just the ingredients

45:15

you're

45:15

using, but when you're adding them to the dish, the way

45:17

of playing with what flavor you get

45:20

out of your food. Yeah.

45:22

And I think exactly. And I think that

45:24

there when you're cooking, you have

45:26

to understand that not every dish is

45:28

gonna be Not not

45:30

every dish is gonna follow the same technique.

45:33

Yeah. You know, you're not gonna cook salmon the same

45:35

way you cook steak. You're not gonna always add the onions

45:37

and garlic the in the same time

45:40

in the pan, you know. So you kinda

45:42

have to take a step back and say, okay, how you know,

45:44

what's my game plan here? And again, that's why we talk

45:46

a lot in book about creating these, you

45:49

know, having these bowls of like chopped up vegetables

45:51

ready to go is because When

45:53

I get you to the stove, I don't want

45:55

you to be in this, like, panic mode of, like, oh my

45:57

god, what do I do? I've gotta look at the book.

45:59

I've gotta look at the pan, I gotta make

46:01

sure. It's like, it's all good.

46:03

It's just food. We got it. Yeah.

46:06

You know? Add this,

46:08

cook it, add that next cook it,

46:10

add this snack, you know. So and it and it

46:13

it really is really is important

46:15

to sort of build the flavors and you're sort of teaching

46:17

people By

46:18

default, like this is how you build the flavors of cuisine.

46:21

Yeah. Totally. Mhmm.

46:24

Let me get to a question that we had from

46:26

our live audience right now. This

46:29

one is specific to you. It's a personal question.

46:31

What is the most difficult

46:33

and or happy moment in the kitchen

46:35

for you? This is

46:36

from what? Professional kitchen or or my

46:38

home kitchen.

46:40

Doesn't specify. Yeah. Okay.

46:43

I'd say the most difficult the

46:45

most difficult thing

46:47

in the professional kitchen is

46:51

getting everybody sort of on the same page

46:53

every single night. I mean, we're

46:56

we're a show. You know, our curtains

46:59

open at 775. We're we're ready to go.

47:03

And it it Sometimes people have hard Kaysen

47:05

so you gotta you gotta get through that with them.

47:08

The most difficult thing in my home kitchen

47:11

is you know, I'm not stepping on my dog

47:13

as she's waiting for everyone crumb to fall

47:15

off and extend forward so she can have her

47:17

third dinner for the night. And

47:20

and, you know, trying to get food on

47:22

the table before the kids have to go to some sports

47:25

or school event. My

47:28

happy moments in the kitchen are honestly

47:30

being in the kitchen. I'm the happiest

47:32

just like that. I will will always be the happiest

47:34

in my life when I'm inside of a kitchen. It's

47:37

everything to me. It's it's it's

47:39

my Nirvana. I love it, you know, and it

47:41

really puts me at peace. It gives me a lot of calm.

47:45

It's the easiest way for me to create meditation

47:47

for myself.

47:48

That's interesting. Even when we're in the restaurants,

47:50

Francis, and you

47:52

know, on any given night between all

47:54

three restaurants, we could serve a thousand people.

47:57

Mhmm. Those are the

47:59

the the time in which we're doing that. That's probably

48:01

when I'm at my most calm. It's

48:04

when I know that we've got thousands of people

48:06

to cook for. It's when

48:09

we're not doing that. And I'm in meetings

48:11

and whatever. It's like that's great, but

48:13

it's not it's what what gives

48:15

me the pieces when I can see the guest and I can

48:17

talk to the guest and

48:19

see their reaction to the food and and

48:22

watch them have a good time. Yeah.

48:25

Let me ask this though. I mean, you

48:31

How do I put this? Part

48:34

of it is competitiveness

48:36

for some people Part of it is

48:39

just like drive. Part of

48:41

it is, you know, a desire to, you

48:43

know, strive for perfection one

48:46

of the one of the great truisms of

48:48

of cooking or at least cooking professionally

48:50

is, you know, perfection doesn't exist. There's only

48:52

the chase of perfection. Right? Mhmm.

48:54

But that's what drives people. Right? They really wanna

48:57

get something perfect just once and, you know, they'll

48:59

never do it. So you just kinda keep pushing and pushing

49:01

and pushing. And I think for a lot of people

49:03

that is also commensurate

49:05

with the drive to open successful

49:07

restaurants and have successful this

49:09

is, you know, that's just like

49:11

the drive for success. Right? Mhmm.

49:14

How do you sort of square

49:16

those two things? Like

49:18

the the happiness you talk about in cooking

49:20

with the notion that I always

49:22

have to be

49:23

better. And if I'm not better today, then

49:25

I failed. Yeah.

49:28

I mean, I you know, part of it is compartmentalizing

49:32

what it is that you're reflecting

49:34

upon. We have a company we

49:36

have a company that that cooks for professional

49:38

athletes. In Minnesota,

49:41

and we're lucky enough to cook for the Minnesota

49:43

while the timbros and the links, all our pro basketball

49:45

and hockey teams. Yeah. What's

49:47

been really interesting in the last five, six

49:49

years of cooking for these people is watching

49:52

them compartmentalize their

49:55

life that's at home

49:57

and beyond. And then when they're at the rank or

49:59

they're at or they're on the court. I

50:01

know a lot of these athletes per and

50:03

they're close friends of mine. And

50:05

so I know what their life is like personally

50:08

and their kids and wives, etcetera. And

50:10

then I watched them play on the ice or the

50:12

court. And I'm always sort of enamored

50:15

by the way that they can sort

50:17

of just be there and be super present

50:19

at what it is that they're doing. And

50:22

think what I've what I've learned is

50:24

that why cooking

50:26

makes me so happy is because it's the

50:28

only time in my day where

50:31

I genuinely allow myself to be

50:33

one hundred percent present in that moments.

50:37

And when I get out of cooking, I

50:40

absolutely think on the drive home.

50:42

Okay. How can we be better tomorrow? But

50:44

the better the better to me is not like,

50:47

I actually ask myself, how can I be better

50:49

for tomorrow? For my What

50:52

does that look like? You know, III

50:55

take a great sense of pride and responsibility,

50:57

know that knowing how many employees work for

50:59

us, which is over a hundred and seventy employees.

51:03

That, you know, they are relying on

51:05

us to be better. They're relying us to

51:07

be fiscally responsible. They're

51:09

relying us to be a consistent, busy

51:11

restaurant, so then that way they can plan

51:13

for their lives as well. Yeah.

51:15

And so I have

51:17

to compartmentalize that. And I have to

51:20

know that where my happiness is in

51:22

the kitchen drives me to be

51:24

better everywhere else. And

51:26

and it all stems from me

51:28

when I'm in the kitchen.

51:30

I'm happy there. I can push everything else

51:32

forward. Yeah. And

51:34

I think about, you know, what does that mean

51:37

for a home cook, for instance, who isn't

51:39

cooking with the same motivations and isn't,

51:41

you know, thinking about those same things when they're cooking,

51:43

and you know, we talk about happiness while

51:45

we're cooking and and the joy of cooking. Mhmm.

51:49

But also for a lot of people, cooking can be really frustrating.

51:52

Right? It can be really annoying. Right? Hey,

51:54

I burn that garlic. Now I'm really mad at myself.

51:56

I gotta throw the whole thing out or I'm gonna eat this,

51:58

you know, dinner that tastes terrible or, you know,

52:00

and and and when

52:03

things come easy to someone like you, you know,

52:05

for someone else, if it's not coming easy, it's it's

52:07

a it's a it's a moment of frustration. But I

52:10

think that can be a

52:12

way of addressing that too. Right? Mhmm.

52:14

The presentness, it doesn't have

52:16

to be about, oh, your dinner has perfect. Your

52:18

your dinner your dinner for your family is

52:20

not meant to taste like a great chef made it.

52:24

It's about like can you pay attention to what you're doing?

52:26

And, you know, try to

52:28

enjoy the act

52:31

of cooking for yourself or cooking for people

52:33

care about and know that it's

52:35

not a competition

52:36

and know that, you know, if you screw

52:39

something up, well, that is awesome

52:41

opportunity to get better. Yeah. Exactly.

52:43

And I I screwed up dishes that I've cooked

52:45

at home. Yeah. You know? I mean,

52:47

it's everybody makes mistakes and stuff like

52:49

that and that and that's perfectly normal and it's

52:51

perfectly fine.

52:53

But I liked what you said earlier,

52:55

which resonated with me, which is you know, remind

52:57

yourself why you're cooking, what you're

52:59

cooking and who it's

53:00

for. And I think that that's

53:02

something that, you know, that's why I got into cooking.

53:05

I mean, I started to cook with my grandmother, Dorothy

53:07

a lot, and that's what

53:09

what I remember at a very young

53:11

age was how much joy it

53:13

brought her to serve us.

53:16

And I remember

53:19

I remember vividly understanding

53:21

that so few ingredients brought

53:23

her so much joy. And

53:25

I thought to myself, wow, that's really powerful.

53:28

Right? A very simple chicken and

53:30

dumpling dish that she made or a sunbuckle

53:32

cookie that she made for us. Gave

53:34

her gave her more joy than it gave us

53:36

and we were eating it. And

53:38

and that in itself,

53:41

we never worried about the mistakes that she

53:43

made in the kitchen because we were so happy

53:45

to see her

53:45

happy. And and, ultimately,

53:48

food is the the the

53:50

ultimate connector.

53:52

Yeah. And boy, no one likes to eat

53:54

dinner when you go to the table mad.

53:56

I hear that from experience

53:59

or so much, Jeff. This has been

54:01

a really, really, really lovely way to spend a meeting.

54:04

Thank you. Thanks for having me. Gavin

54:08

Cason is the chef owner of spoon and

54:10

stable, Demi, Belkor

54:12

bakery, and Mara. His debut cookbook

54:14

is called At Home. You can find

54:17

his recipe for his family's favorite, batch

54:19

cooked chicken with North African spices,

54:21

sweet potato hash, and broccoli at

54:24

splendidtable dot org. Thanks to

54:26

all the members of this Blended Table co op for

54:28

joining us on Zoom for this show and thank

54:30

you for listening. Have a great week.

54:32

Go cook something. Talk to you soon.

54:37

Today's interview with Gavin was recorded

54:39

as a live virtual event for Splendid

54:41

Table Co op members. Behind the scenes

54:43

experiences like this and more perks are

54:45

available to anyone who's a part of the co op. And

54:47

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54:49

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54:51

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