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dot com today. I'm

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Francis Lam, and you're listening to the Splendor

1:21

table from APM.

1:27

Hey, so put down your coffee because I

1:29

don't want you to spit it out. But did

1:31

you know that around the world, People

1:34

drink three times more

1:36

tea than coffee. Tea is

1:38

by far the most consumed drink in the world.

1:40

Only to water and yet

1:43

it feels like so many of us know

1:45

so little about it. Okay.

1:47

So to be fair, here in the US, we are

1:49

much more a coffee country. Something

1:52

like sixty percent of American adults

1:54

drink coffee compared to only twenty five percent

1:56

who drink Leena, around the world

1:58

and especially in Asia, tea

2:00

rules. And it pretty much always

2:02

has. Human beings love

2:04

of tea has led to wars

2:06

of conquests and all kinds of marburis

2:09

over it. But we've also created

2:11

immensely rich cultures of how

2:13

to enjoy it rituals for preparing

2:16

and sharing it ceremonies and

2:18

devotionals around it. And so

2:20

today, we're gonna mash the surface

2:22

of a couple of the great tea traditions of

2:25

the world. Later on in the show, we're Leena

2:27

learn about the fascinating history and a

2:29

fantastic stick way to make masala chai

2:31

India's revolutionary entry to

2:33

the tea can and we're Leena start

2:36

as a little tea tasting room. Squirled

2:38

away down an unassuming hallway in

2:41

Leena, Manhattan. It's a tranquil

2:43

little space called t shop and

2:45

it's proprietary To recent long, sat

2:47

me down to give us the full one on one

2:49

of the major styles of Chinese and

2:51

Taiwanese tea and how to

2:53

enjoy them. So,

2:57

Susan, when we were talking yesterday, I love how you told me that

2:59

you grew up in Hong Kong, you know, which was a British

3:01

colony when we were kids. And you

3:03

actually you

3:05

you weren't from a family of tea drinkers, and

3:07

the only way you really drank tea was sort

3:09

of in that British Hong Kong style, which is

3:11

with milk, black tea with milk,

3:14

or, you know, with lemon and honey.

3:17

But here, we're actually doing something very different.

3:19

This is a very sort of traditional typical

3:22

Chinese style tea no milk,

3:24

no honey, and it's just

3:26

different kinds of tea, steeped in water.

3:30

So I've heard that there are three thousand

3:32

varieties of teas, or how do you break it

3:34

down? So teas are broken

3:36

down in majorly six

3:39

category. Okay. Green tea, white

3:41

tea, yellow tea, blue tea, and

3:43

blue tea. Those are major category in

3:46

Chinese tea. Tea

3:48

is all from the same plants, camellia's

3:50

finances. Mhmm. So what

3:53

makes them different is mostly because

3:56

of their process say. So

3:59

mostly determined by their oxidation Leena,

4:01

to determine this is a green tea, white

4:04

tea, orange tea a black

4:06

tea. Okay. That's how how it goes.

4:08

Yeah. So it's not like in wine, it's different

4:10

grapes. And in, you know, coffee, it's

4:13

more about the different origins.

4:14

It's about the process. How they've actually

4:16

been harvested and processed? Yeah. There are

4:19

obviously many different rhino. So

4:21

people would use particular variety for

4:23

a particular style. Okay. But it doesn't

4:25

Leena that this writer cannot be used

4:27

for the other. So today, we actually

4:30

have an example that we have a career,

4:32

a variety that usually

4:34

people use for green tea -- Yeah.

4:36

-- but we request the farmer to

4:38

use the same season tea,

4:40

to fully oxidized, to make into

4:42

black tea as well. So we have

4:44

one tea that is from one farmer. Same

4:47

season same variety.

4:49

Okay. But one is green

4:51

tea, one is black tea because they are different

4:53

processing. Oh,

4:53

cool. And so we'll be able to taste the difference purely

4:56

in the processing then?

4:57

Yes. Cool.

4:57

And actually, before we get into tasting,

5:00

how how does a tea go from white

5:02

tea to green to yellow to

5:06

along the black to poo air, if I get that right?

5:09

Physically, how is the tea sort of treated

5:11

to create that oxidation?

5:12

So when I talk about oxidation

5:14

station. I always compare to Apple.

5:17

It's like after you cut Apple open,

5:19

it starts turning brown color from the edges. Mhmm.

5:21

That's when the oscillation start taking

5:23

place. And the longer you're

5:25

exposed to the air is

5:27

turning more brown color. Same thing with the

5:29

tea leaves. So with

5:32

green tea, that is want it without

5:34

oxidation is after it's being

5:36

paid, people send to

5:39

pen drying or steam name, use

5:41

high temperature to stop the tea from going

5:43

to

5:43

oxidation.

5:44

Okay. Okay. That's why the tea has very

5:46

green color. Versus

5:49

when we go to oxidation is after

5:52

picking. They put on a tray and

5:54

then on a rack of many trays

5:56

together. Depends

5:59

on the weather and humidity. It could take

6:01

ten to twenty hours or even more

6:03

than even like up to a day -- Mhmm. -- to

6:05

sitting there the processing is

6:08

to let the tea soften

6:10

a little bit. Mhmm. And then

6:12

it would go to indoor oxidation, which

6:14

they would have a very warm, warmer

6:16

room, and then put the tea on

6:19

the floor, and then just

6:22

let us sit there. Until you start

6:24

turning color, turning more brown. Pharma

6:26

will come in to check, to see,

6:29

like, how's the oxidation, to flip the

6:31

tea over. Mhmm. So they would be more

6:33

evenly. Sure. And then it would

6:35

when he decided to stop the sedation,

6:38

then it would go to shipping.

6:40

The leaves and also drying, and

6:43

then you will go to finish the tea.

6:45

So the oxidation, how long it takes, determine

6:48

the tea is old on tea or black

6:50

tea.

6:50

Yeah. And

6:51

for white tea is is

6:55

a little bit different, is it

6:57

doesn't go into the intentionally oxidation

7:00

process. Okay. It just pick

7:02

and dry, so naturally dry.

7:05

But while it is waiting for naturally dry,

7:08

it might take some

7:09

time. So oxidation happens.

7:11

Mhmm. Mhmm.

7:12

Similarly, oxidation happens while

7:14

we're waiting for trying. Okay. And

7:17

the difference between that and the green green

7:19

tea is heat treated to stop the oxidation.

7:22

So it does prevent any

7:23

oxidation.

7:23

prevent oxidation. I think if

7:24

you cook an apple, if you said --

7:25

Yes. -- the

7:26

apple doesn't turn brown

7:27

Mhmm.

7:27

after you cut it. Yeah. Yeah. And for

7:30

purity, it's very interesting. There

7:32

are two major care category of poor

7:34

tea. It could be the

7:37

raw poor tea, which was almost

7:39

like a green tea of poor. But

7:42

over time, I say age, it

7:44

becomes darker. Okay. So it's

7:46

like naturally oxidation throughout

7:48

time. Yep. In ten, twenty years. Yeah.

7:50

Okay. So this is not a couple hours. This is not

7:52

a couple hours. All we

7:54

call a Kippur, show poor. That

7:57

is go through a fermentation process

8:00

that makes the tea darker

8:02

to begin with and instead

8:05

of waiting ten twenty years for it to

8:07

get dark.

8:07

Mhmm. Okay. Yeah.

8:09

So now that we have the varieties

8:11

--

8:12

Mhmm. -- should we do some tasting? Yes.

8:14

See what they're have have it done. So

8:18

I always tell customer. I

8:21

know what people come in the shop, they got very

8:23

excited, especially when they see

8:25

all those like small pewer, tea

8:27

cups, they're super cute, and they Leena

8:29

buy everything. I Right? Now the first thing

8:31

you should get is get

8:33

tea first. Okay. And then start

8:35

drinking good tea in your own way.

8:38

And then when you develop more interest

8:41

over time you build up your collection of teawares,

8:43

that's how it works. So

8:45

very very important is start with good

8:47

tea because even good tea, you don't brew

8:49

it like kung fu style, just very

8:51

casually drinking it. You can still tell the

8:54

quality. And a

8:57

lot of our tea, when we

8:59

work with our farmer, actually, we

9:02

specific looking for tea that is very

9:04

friendly to brew. So that means

9:07

no matter how you brew it -- Mhmm. -- always

9:09

you can enjoy it. Okay. So

9:11

today, I actually prepare one

9:14

green tea --

9:15

Okay. --

9:16

and the black tea with the same farmer, same season

9:18

that we were talking about. Literally the same tea

9:20

from same place from the same time.

9:23

Just one is green and one is

9:24

black. Yeah. Okay. And then one

9:27

white tea. Okay. Until urochi.

9:30

To blue in a

9:31

mug, just put the tea leaves in

9:33

a hot water. Okay. Yep.

9:35

So the first question I have, always

9:38

how much tea do you use and how much

9:39

water? Yeah. That's actually a very good question.

9:42

I compare tea

9:45

to cooking a lot. Oh,

9:47

okay. When you ask your grandma, like,

9:49

how a recipe? She's, like, a little

9:51

bit of salt. Yeah. Just put

9:53

in a nail. Yes. Fifty is

9:55

the same way. So, actually,

9:57

I thought about

9:58

that, and I actually do my own measurement

10:00

already this morning just to give and

10:02

estimate.

10:03

Okay. Great. Great. So, you can see the tea

10:05

has different shapes, the tea leaves. Sure.

10:07

One that looks very different is a

10:09

road into a ball shape. This is a

10:12

most likely a Taiwanese rule on style.

10:14

That they wrote into bullshit. Yeah. With

10:16

that here, I will say, do around

10:18

one teaspoon. Okay. And

10:20

then the added

10:21

tea, like, loose Leena.

10:23

They're long, they're hard to fit in a teaspoon. Yeah.

10:25

I would say one tablespoon. Okay.

10:27

So when I do the exact measurement, it's

10:29

around three grams. Of the

10:31

tea. Okay. And then we put in a mug?

10:33

And how much water? Just

10:35

feel it like this

10:38

is probably six ounces. Okay.

10:40

Yeah. And so we're brewing

10:42

this tea in sort of a typical steep

10:44

fashion. Right? You're gonna put tea leaves in the

10:46

mug, but you're gonna have a hot water in it after minutes.

10:48

We pour it out and we drink it. But you've talked

10:50

about gung fu style.

10:52

What is gung fu style? It's different method

10:54

of of preparing the tea. Yes.

10:57

Gung fu style is more

11:00

tea leaves less water, so

11:02

we get a more intense taste

11:05

of tea. Yeah. And we

11:07

put in effort to brew the Leena little

11:09

bit more effort, a little bit more

11:11

skill. Yeah. We usually

11:13

start with smaller vessels. The one that I'm using

11:15

today is a Sky one and

11:17

this one is, I think, is under

11:20

three ounces. Mhmm. And

11:22

with this Sky one, I will put

11:24

around five to seven grams of

11:26

tea. Okay. And then I

11:29

will dip each infusions around

11:32

fifteen to thirty seconds? Super

11:34

fast. Super fast. Yeah. But this way,

11:36

I'm actually able to restrict the teeth

11:39

multiple more times. Yeah. And

11:42

what I really love about it is each

11:44

infusion. There's always a fresh

11:47

hot cup of

11:47

tea. Yeah. And everyone tastes different.

11:50

I think that that's kind of like the idea. There's so much

11:52

tea in there. Like so many tea leaves and

11:55

such a short steep that the way it was

11:57

sort of described to me that I think it's so interesting. It's almost

11:59

like each infusion,

12:02

like, takes another layer of flavor out

12:04

of the

12:04

tea. So you can taste the different layers

12:06

of flavor as it changes? Yes.

12:09

Also, the smell changes

12:11

too. Mhmm. Yeah. The first

12:14

time when I try to eat this white, like, kung

12:16

fu style. I was first I

12:18

was so brown away, like, every cup

12:20

is so different. And I'm still drinking

12:22

the same tea, but every cup is just

12:24

different. And I

12:27

start doing it at home and what

12:29

makes me keep doing it every

12:31

day is I really love of the process.

12:33

Mhmm. It's very calming.

12:37

It's almost like meditation. Sometimes

12:40

people would describe it like meditation movement.

12:42

Mhmm. You know, when we do tai chi,

12:45

it's like we're moving very slowly. So

12:48

it's every movement we are very

12:50

mindful of

12:50

that. And that's almost like meditation. And

12:53

buoyancy is the same way too.

12:57

So, right now, you're putting the tea

12:59

leaves just into these beautiful little

13:02

mugs? Mhmm. I

13:05

usually would say, except for green

13:07

tea, most tea you

13:09

can use boiling

13:10

water, which is two hundred twelve

13:13

Fahrenheit. Mhmm. Yeah.

13:15

Green tea is usually a little bit more dark

13:17

it. So I would say around a

13:20

hundred eighty five to a hundred ninety

13:22

Fahrenheit. Okay. Yes. So

13:24

it's like you boil the water in that sit for, like, a

13:26

minute

13:27

or two before you use it. Okay? Yeah. I never really

13:29

used it the longer term either.

13:34

And just add water. Okay. I

13:39

love the sitters. I love to use these clear mugs

13:41

because if so beautiful when the tea when the

13:43

water. It's the tea and just

13:45

to make the tea Leena dance. Yes.

13:51

We'll be back with more of Leena Wong

13:53

of T Shop and her Teas. I'm

13:55

Francis Lam and this is the Splendid

13:57

table from APM.

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16:06

I'm Francis Lam, and this is the blend the

16:08

table to show for curious cooks

16:10

and eaters. We're learning

16:13

about how to fall in love with

16:15

East Asian Tea with authority,

16:17

Theresa Wong of the tea shop in New

16:19

York. So, bring yourself a cup. Let's

16:21

go back to it with her. We're just about to start

16:23

tasting. Thank

16:27

you. Yeah.

16:28

So this is the green team. Yes. So

16:32

this is a Korean green tea. Mhmm.

16:34

Chinese and Korean green tea, they have the

16:36

same style, which most of them they are using

16:39

pen drying. So the flavor is

16:41

slightly nuttier.

16:42

Yeah. A little bit like green peas.

16:44

Totally.

16:45

First is the Japanese green tea

16:47

is used to deming to stop the oxidation.

16:50

So it's a little bit more

16:51

umami, seaweed taste.

16:53

Mhmm. Like

16:56

that. Yes.

16:57

That's why there is that sort of it's a very different

16:59

flavor. Yeah. It's very different. So

17:02

this is a Korean green tea. It's more

17:04

similar. You taste a little bit chestnuts

17:07

to

17:07

me. It's like nutty, but very powdery,

17:09

very soft kind. Yeah. Definitely

17:11

taste little bit toasty. Like you said, almost

17:14

like almost

17:16

like a

17:16

grain, like, barley or something like

17:18

that very light, very Slightly

17:20

sweet at the end. Mhmm. Not

17:23

beer.

17:24

Not bitter.

17:25

Yeah. And little bit of stringent. Like, you feel

17:27

your you can feel your tongue. So,

17:29

like, get a little bit dry, a little bit tighten

17:31

up, but look in a pleasant way. Yes. So

17:34

a lot of people were very afraid

17:36

of bitter or a strengthening tea,

17:39

but it's actually very long Mhmm.

17:42

Because tea has talent in it just

17:44

like wine. Mhmm. So

17:47

you should be able to differentiate a

17:49

good beer and a bad beer. So a

17:51

good tea is you notice the bidder or

17:53

you notice the astringency, but

17:56

it has a lot more going on because

17:58

that's the better astringency. Leena. And it's

18:00

very pleasant. Even though you noticed

18:02

that, it doesn't really bother you.

18:03

Yeah. It doesn't make your face go like, ugh. Yes.

18:06

Yes. And that one is

18:08

usually due to poor quality

18:11

or poor processing is something

18:13

that you taste just very flat

18:15

bitterness and it doesn't have other

18:17

sweetness that go along with it. And

18:19

those we try to avoid that --

18:21

Yeah. -- it would be interesting to try the

18:23

black tea --

18:24

Okay. -- after so you will

18:26

see how the oxidation mix tea different.

18:29

So this is the again, same tea. This

18:32

is just black versus green. Yes. The way it's

18:34

treated. Okay. Mhmm.

18:37

Like right away you can smell it's very different.

18:39

Yeah. It's a little bit more thorough.

18:42

Totally. You

18:43

smell a lot more sweetness.

18:50

Oh, I love that.

18:55

It's

18:55

a lot deeper. Mhmm. Like the flavor.

18:57

Yeah. And more complex. Yeah.

19:00

The green tea is more delicate. Like, it

19:02

takes a lot more freshness. It's

19:05

just

19:05

sweeter, deeper. Yeah.

19:07

That's why oxidation t t --

19:09

Mhmm. -- changes the taste profile. The

19:12

roasting and the oxidation and create layers

19:14

in the tea that brings out more body and you want

19:16

to use in the tea. So a good tea

19:18

farmer or a tea maker, they know when to

19:21

what to do to bring out the best of the

19:23

tea. Yeah. Yeah. And

19:26

we're gonna taste a white tea.

19:28

Okay. Okay.

19:32

I just tasted the white

19:33

tea. I

19:34

always thought white tea. Oh, white is white and green is

19:36

green, so like a white would be lighter than green, but that's

19:38

not the case at all.

19:39

Yeah. A lot of people would be like, I don't like white

19:41

tea. It doesn't taste like anything. I

19:45

I maybe it's just the quality of the tea this tastes

19:47

like vanilla, and this tastes so much like vanilla.

19:50

Sweet. Super sweet. Slightly

19:52

creamy. Mhmm. I think that's

19:54

why you think of Fernando. For me,

19:56

it's NYC's soy milk. Sometimes it's

19:58

like slightly

19:59

nutty, creamy, soy milk. It has

20:01

a little more bitterness. Definitely

20:03

has more

20:03

string than the other one. And also

20:05

a little bit like rose water? Yeah.

20:08

Totally. Yeah. Totally totally.

20:11

And then we're gonna we have two

20:15

Okay. From what you can see, the color looks

20:17

very different. Yeah.

20:18

Okay. So so so this was a different

20:21

tasting almost entirely because I I remember earlier

20:23

when we spoke, you said, I want you to

20:25

taste too different long, so

20:27

you see how different oolang can

20:29

be. So most green teas will

20:31

be in the range of what we taste it for

20:33

green tea. Yes. Most black teas in the range of what

20:35

we taste for black tea. But as long as its

20:37

own kind of beast. And yeah,

20:40

looking at the two, one,

20:42

the leaf itself is still

20:44

quite green. Mhmm. It

20:47

looks like you know, collared greens I've been

20:49

stewing for a little while. It's like a little bit

20:51

brownish and Leena.

20:53

But the tea is still pretty

20:56

clear and slightly

20:57

Leena, and the other looks very dark.

20:59

It's actually the darkest one on the table, darker

21:01

than the black tea. Yeah. So Ulong

21:03

tea is anything that is semi oxidized.

21:06

So when we think about semi oxidized, it

21:08

could be twenty percent of sedation, fifty

21:10

percent of sedation, or

21:12

you can be eighty percent oxidation. Okay.

21:15

And on top of that, it could be done with

21:17

or without roasting. So

21:20

the one that you drinking right now, it looks

21:22

very green -- Mhmm. -- which is very

21:25

minimal

21:25

oxidation. It's like very lightly

21:27

oxidized. So it tastes still very close

21:30

to

21:30

A green tea. A green tea. This

21:32

is a very typical style of Taiwanese

21:34

High Mountain Uno. This is actually a High Mountain

21:36

Uno. Like slightly green color.

21:39

Yeah. The tea is

21:40

It's green beans. Yeah. Golden color.

21:43

So that's a Tiffany style, highmountain

21:46

royalty. Popcorn

21:48

and green beans? Popcorn. Yeah. A

21:50

little bit. This year is actually fairly buttery.

21:54

Yeah. Oh,

21:56

nice.

21:58

And the other udon

22:00

tea we have which is a Dr. Wang

22:02

is from Weyin Mountain in Leena,

22:05

Fujian China. That region

22:07

is particularly very famous for

22:09

a warranty called Yinca, a style called

22:12

Yinca, which is, if

22:14

we translate, it means, club

22:16

t. So the t

22:18

grows along the clubs. And

22:20

traditionally, they are very heavy roasted.

22:24

So this

22:26

one is Tailohang.

22:29

Yes. It's very traditionally

22:31

three time roasted, so you can see fairly

22:34

dark Yeah. Roasted three

22:36

times. Yeah. Wow. So

22:38

tea can be done with a without roasting.

22:40

Like, the Taiwanese rule on tea we try is not

22:43

thin without roasting. Okay. And this

22:45

one is preterm roasting. Okay.

22:48

If you're growing up like around

22:51

We Mountain or if you're

22:53

growing up in South Asia, like Guangdong

22:55

or Hong Kong -- Mhmm. --

22:57

my impression of all on tears.

22:59

Like, it should be this color. Yeah.

23:01

Yeah. It's very bronze. Mhmm.

23:05

And a lot of time people have a

23:08

misunderstanding of

23:10

roast tea. When they see the

23:12

tea very dark color, the

23:15

first initial is I'm not

23:17

gonna like this because it's gonna taste really

23:19

bitter. Even

23:22

just the smell makes me think like I need some dim sum

23:24

right now.

23:25

Yes. Dim sum is from South China.

23:28

Yeah. This is really this is the

23:30

the iconic pairing. Yes. So

23:34

this tea, even though it's heavy roasted, it

23:36

just has a different note, but it's not

23:38

bitter. Sure. It's

23:42

a little bit

23:42

Woody? Definitely

23:43

woody. I was like, yeah. It smells like a

23:45

forest. It smells like tree bark.

23:48

It smells like Woody, but very

23:50

smooth when you drink it. And

23:53

it has some nice

23:55

sweetness. But the sweetness is different from

23:57

other tea too. Yeah. It's slightly more mineral

24:00

sweetness.

24:01

It's because ianxia from

24:03

that region. They grow along the

24:05

coast because of the environment. It

24:07

has some more mineral street in the

24:10

tea itself. Yeah. So,

24:12

yeah, it's very unique. Welcome.

24:14

Mhmm. Welcome. Yes.

24:17

So gum is aware that I've never really been able to

24:19

translate in in categories. At first,

24:21

it was, like, ginseng, my

24:23

parents would say it was very gum. Mhmm. And this

24:25

is very gum. It's almost, like, there's a bitterness.

24:27

So I used to think it just meant

24:28

bitter.

24:29

Bitter sweet. But

24:30

it's bittersweet. Yeah.

24:31

That's nice.

24:31

It's like because it's it's very slightly

24:33

abitter, but

24:34

there's something else that, like -- Yeah.

24:36

-- lifts it up. Yeah. And,

24:39

like, when you said it was minorly, like, it

24:41

almost tastes like a little bit metallic, but in very

24:44

nice

24:44

way. Mhmm. Like in the back of your tongue, that's almost like

24:46

it's sparkling back there. So

24:48

I always say a good roasted teas like that.

24:50

I always compared to coffee since you're a coffee

24:52

driver. Yeah. A lot of people thought coffee

24:54

is better, but coffee is not better.

24:57

It's better because of the roasting. Yeah.

24:59

So when you burn

25:01

the coffee bean or when there's too much roasting,

25:04

it become bitter. When you burn

25:06

something, when you're cooking, it's bitter.

25:08

And when you burn the tea, if you

25:10

over roast it, it's bitter. But

25:12

a good mixture should know when to stop

25:14

to bring out the sweetness in the Leena

25:16

that of

25:17

bitterness. So a bit roasted tea

25:19

should not be bitter. Yeah.

25:22

So how do you know if you're getting good tea? Like, how do

25:24

you know if you're getting good stuff? First

25:26

of all, the from

25:28

dry leaves, you look at the color. Okay.

25:31

And you look at the size

25:33

of the leaves. Like, if it's full leaf

25:35

or it's like broken leaves, Those

25:38

also matter. And then when you

25:40

brew it, the color, that's why

25:42

we use white Coke.

25:44

Okay. Because you can see the color, the clarity

25:47

of the tea. Even with the glass

25:49

job, you can see that it's clear.

25:51

Mhmm. Like, it's very clear color.

25:55

When you drink it,

25:57

it's not flat.

25:59

Like, it has layers. Mhmm.

26:01

Yeah. Mhmm. Those are very basic

26:03

to start with. And one thing I always

26:06

tell customer is if you really Leena be

26:08

assured of your tea quality, just

26:11

to brew the tea stronger. Using

26:13

more tea leaves, hot temperature, steep

26:16

it for longer time. And you

26:18

usually good tea, we show up

26:20

to character more when you brew stronger. Like,

26:22

good tea, you it's not afraid to

26:24

to brew it strong. Sometimes when

26:26

I travel to sourcing for tea, the

26:29

way we taste the tea is that we

26:31

really

26:31

strong, not really to enjoy the tea, but we

26:33

need to just like kinda analyze it.

26:35

Yes. And vice versa, which you're making for

26:37

yourself. Mhmm. If you want a lighter flavor,

26:40

you can use fewer

26:41

leaves, you can use cooler

26:43

water, you can

26:44

burn for less. Right. Yeah. You can adjust

26:46

in many way. So I have to

26:48

ask you this. People were into tea.

26:50

They always just say, oh, never drink tea back. They

26:52

just like dismiss

26:53

it. But why

26:55

would you say you can't really have great

26:58

tea and tea bags? Over the years,

27:00

I think people are trying to improve the

27:03

quality of tea pad. Okay. When I

27:05

was a kid, my tea pad

27:07

impression is lift and tea pad. So

27:10

you don't really see leaves in there.

27:13

Oh, that's fine. And now that you see a lot

27:16

more, like, the market saying full

27:18

leaves or they're using whole leaves,

27:20

pyramid tea bag. So you have

27:22

rooms for the tea to expand. Okay.

27:25

Okay. So assume the quality

27:27

has been better throughout the period.

27:31

But I haven't tried

27:32

myself. So I cannot speak of the

27:34

quality. Yeah. But I

27:36

always I travel with

27:39

and sometimes I I if I can

27:41

cannot bring the whole set with me, my see

27:43

a way is I will bring

27:45

some empty the Shea, like the

27:47

entity bag -- Mhmm. -- and bring some of

27:49

the food leaves that I know the quality

27:52

-- Yeah. -- and just scoop the food leaves into

27:54

the chauset and make my

27:56

own tea back immediately. Yeah. And that way,

27:58

I can still enjoy the quality and

28:01

it's just a very easy way of enjoying

28:03

tea.

28:04

I love that. Well, thank you again so much.

28:06

This has been super, super, super interesting

28:08

and really delicious. You

28:10

must have tea.

28:15

East Asian authority, Theresa Wong,

28:17

is the owner of the tea shop in New

28:19

York City. You can buy her terrific keys

28:22

at our website, tshop n

28:24

y dot com, that's t. Just a letter

28:26

t. And if you're in New York,

28:28

you can visit her shop, get a cup to go

28:30

or book guided tasting. So

28:36

from the meditative purity of a

28:39

Chinese tea tasting room. We're

28:41

gonna go now to the homes and

28:43

railways and streets of India, where

28:46

tea is enjoyed in a totally different

28:48

way. Not simply steeped

28:50

but boiled hard with rich

28:52

milk, probably sugar and blends

28:55

of anywhere from three to who

28:57

knows how many different spices. Yes,

28:59

I'm talking about chai. Mustache chai

29:01

to be precise and you really don't have to call

29:04

it chai tea because chi means to you.

29:06

And our guide for the journey into chai history

29:09

is food and culture writer,

29:11

Lima, TrivediGrenier.

29:13

Hey, Leena, that's great to see you.

29:15

Hey, Francis. Thanks for having me. I

29:18

am super excited to talk about masala

29:20

chai with you. Actually Leena

29:22

start with your story because you have this Your

29:24

story begins with this really wonderful

29:27

image of your grandmother's

29:29

you know, personal rituals preparing massage.

29:33

And, you know, I think when I was reading

29:35

it and probably as far as most people

29:37

were reading it, have this image that,

29:39

you know, massage has been something that Indian people

29:41

have been, you know, enjoying every

29:44

day for centuries. But

29:46

then there's this really striking line

29:48

in your story because you say,

29:51

she didn't grow up drinking yet because it was

29:53

invented in her lifetime. So,

29:55

you know, just a couple of generations ago.

29:58

So let's start with that. What is the

30:00

history of massage?

30:02

It really starts off with the

30:05

British colonizing India. Mhmm.

30:07

And they had a great obsession for

30:10

Chinese tea and the Chinese basically

30:12

block them. And they,

30:15

you know, it's not a it's not a pretty history for

30:17

the Indian people. The British

30:20

basically stole land from Indians

30:23

where they saw tea growing wildly --

30:26

Mhmm. -- then they kind

30:28

of tricked lower class Indians

30:30

into indentured servitude to

30:33

grow the tea. Mhmm. And then

30:35

once they had all this tea, they

30:37

didn't have enough consumers for it.

30:40

And so they needed

30:42

to find a way

30:44

to make Indians

30:46

drink tea. And so

30:49

my grandmother, we called her Modi Ben,

30:52

her name was means big sister in Gujarati.

30:56

She was born in nineteen twenty two.

30:58

And in nineteen twenty two, Mersalichai

31:00

was not a tradition. And it

31:03

really didn't get created until

31:05

sometime between nineteen eighteen and nineteen

31:08

thirty, and it didn't make its way

31:10

to Modi Ben's home in Shukla Tirth,

31:12

Gujarat until the nineteen forties.

31:14

And so yeah,

31:17

it's it's a relatively new invention,

31:19

which is it surprises a lot of

31:21

people.

31:21

Yeah. And what is the story of that creation?

31:25

Well, so what happened is there

31:28

was a group created

31:30

called the Indian Tea Association. And

31:33

it was owned by a lot of

31:35

the big British owners of

31:37

the tea estates, the big tea estates in India.

31:40

And they basically got together and

31:42

were like, we need to make Indians buy

31:44

our tea. How do we do this? And

31:46

so they created a forty plus

31:49

year campaign to basically indoctrinate

31:51

Indians into drinking this tea,

31:54

the British way, of course, with with milk and

31:56

sugar. And so this means

31:58

that they went to upper

32:01

class homes and gave proper tea demonstrations

32:04

on how to have a tea service They

32:06

gave away tea at public gatherings at

32:08

religious festivals, and they set up

32:11

tea stalls at everywhere from

32:13

railroad stations, streetside

32:16

stations, and they even convinced

32:18

the government to give industrial

32:21

workers a tea break

32:23

every day. And they had tea

32:25

stalls set up outside for them. And, of

32:27

course, they were religiously separated

32:30

one for the Muslims and one for the Hindu's.

32:33

And so we see even in that early time

32:35

period, the British were kind

32:37

of encouraging the early stages of

32:39

partition just through the t. And

32:41

so they did this for about

32:44

forty plus years. And

32:46

by the end of the twentieth century, seventy

32:49

percent of Indians were drinking tea.

32:52

Which is just Yeah.

32:55

Yeah. So if if tea, you know, as it

32:57

was consumed in the British style, wasn't really

32:59

introduced until the early nineteen hundreds.

33:02

Yeah. Like, so, like, eighty, ninety years

33:04

to convert an entire country

33:06

of, you know, almost a billion

33:09

people at that point. Right? Like, Okay.

33:11

And then

33:12

yeah. Yeah. And the the creation

33:14

of massage try, so

33:16

one of the things that Indian Leena Association

33:18

did was they gave tea to

33:22

railway wallace, which is also

33:24

known as, like, street vendors. Mhmm.

33:26

And I wanna be clear, the tea that they gave

33:28

Indians was the lowest grade

33:30

of tea. So it was we're talking

33:33

in the early times, it was like tea

33:35

dust. And around nineteen thirty,

33:37

They invented this method called CTC,

33:40

which is known as crushed hair curl,

33:42

and it creates a low grade

33:44

strong tasting and quick brewing

33:47

tea granules. And so they gave

33:49

those to the the ballas and

33:52

they the vollas were, like, making

33:54

it, like, they were told, and they're, like, this

33:56

this kinda tastes better. This doesn't really

33:58

taste really

33:59

good.

33:59

Right? And so I know you wanted to drink this.

34:02

Yeah. I know. So

34:04

they did what they've been doing for centuries,

34:06

which is they added masala to it, masala

34:09

meaning spice blend. Mhmm. And now India

34:11

already had a tradition, and this was a tradition

34:13

that Modi Ben grew up with of drinking

34:16

medicinal spice blends in

34:17

tea. Okay? So that would they already

34:20

had

34:20

a Not tea in the way with tea leaves, but, like,

34:22

in Tea leaves. Yes. It it was literally just

34:24

spices and water. Boiled together

34:26

for different types of medicine. And

34:29

so they already have that practice,

34:31

and they had a practice of adding massage to

34:33

foods to make it taste better. And

34:36

so the vollas basically

34:38

put two and two together and started making

34:40

masala chai. And the first

34:43

reference in history that I've really found

34:45

about it was the Indian Tea Association

34:48

in the nineteen thirties. They

34:50

discovered this massage eye and they

34:52

got very angry. They

34:54

thought they the the masala was

34:57

adulterating

34:58

the tea.

34:59

At you keep giving them the worst tea

35:01

you have anyway. Like Right. Right.

35:03

Exactly. And they started

35:05

going to different voilas

35:08

and shutting down their stands if they saw that they

35:10

used the masala. They

35:12

also, like, hired British

35:15

people to sell this tea the

35:17

British way where the other vollas were

35:19

selling them a solid try to try to put them out

35:21

of business. And as

35:24

we know, massachai

35:27

one. Massachai is

35:29

still around. Yes. And so when you

35:31

look into it Yes.

35:34

Well, so when you look back at it, the adding of

35:36

the masala was really an act of rebellion

35:39

against the British. And

35:41

it was really it it was like Indian

35:43

saying, you're giving us crappy tea we're

35:45

gonna make it taste good. And

35:47

it's kind of revolutionary. Right? It's something

35:49

that outlived the British rule and a

35:51

term that's kind of tool of oppression

35:54

into a tradition.

35:56

We'll be back with more of masala chai

35:59

with writer Lina Trevidegar. I'm

36:01

Francis

36:02

Lam, and this is the Splendid table from

36:04

APM.

36:06

Hey, it's Sally from the Splendid table. In

36:08

case you didn't know it, Pi Day is coming

36:11

up on March fourteenth. You know

36:13

Pi, that mathematical constant three

36:15

point 141592

36:17

dot dot dot. Well, that's

36:20

what Pie Day is for some people, but

36:22

for those of us at the Splendid table, we

36:24

think about Pie in a different way. It's

36:26

delicious, so let's celebrate. Vote

36:29

for your favorite pie recipe today and get

36:31

a chance to win a splendid table, apron,

36:33

rolling pin, tablet stand, and pastry

36:35

cutter for all your baking adventures.

36:38

We can't wait to see what you

36:39

choose. Cast your vote at splinter

36:41

table dot org slash payday, that's

36:43

p I day, or find a link

36:46

in this episode show notes. May the

36:48

best pie win? Hey, it's Francis

36:50

Leena from the Splendid table. So picture this.

36:53

You're throwing a dinner party with your closest friends.

36:55

They're bringing wine, but also they're

36:57

bringing all of their food allergies from

37:00

garlic to garbanzo beans in seems like

37:02

everything's off limits. Well,

37:04

you can skip the stress and just

37:06

call Dinner SOS. It's

37:08

about Apple's new podcast that will help

37:10

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37:12

Join host Chris Morocco as he attempts to

37:14

figure out your cooking dilemmas with the help

37:16

of the Bonapati test kitchen. Whether you

37:19

just need some weekday inspiration or Leena perfect

37:21

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to cook. Make sure you listen and follow

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now wherever you get your podcasts.

37:39

I'm Francis Lam, and this is the show for

37:41

Furious cooks and eaters. We're all

37:43

about tea on this episode, and

37:45

we're talking now about the great tea culture

37:47

of India, a solid gai with

37:50

writer, Leena TrevediGrenier. Go

37:52

back to little bit. So

37:54

tell me, like, in your family, obviously,

37:57

we've heard you talk about your grandmother, but

38:00

Like, what's the role of massage in

38:02

your family? Like, you're telling me

38:04

the other day that when you visited family, you

38:06

might have four or five different pots going, each with

38:08

a different MESSALLA Leena TO

38:11

SUIT DIFFERENT TASTS IN THE

38:13

FAMILY. Reporter: RIGHT, RIGHT,

38:15

I MEANSALLICI IS REALLY AN ACTIVE HOSPITALITY.

38:17

Anytime I go when I visit India,

38:19

every single house I go to, they're making masala

38:21

chai. When I go to visit my aunts and

38:24

uncles, my Indian aunts and uncles in

38:26

Central Illinois, they're always

38:28

serving massage with a little snack.

38:30

Right? Mhmm. For

38:33

me, I grew up seeing

38:35

my grandmother, Modi Bend, every

38:37

morning she'd get up really early and

38:40

she would do her pujas, Hindu

38:42

prayers, and then she would

38:44

make her massage try. And she

38:46

would drink it in a little stainless

38:49

steel cup with a stainless

38:51

steel saucer. And it as a kid,

38:53

it kinda drove me crazy. I mean, Modi Bani,

38:55

she took twenty minutes to drink this cup a

38:57

try. And she would she would tip

38:59

the the cup into the saucer

39:02

and then hold the saucer up to her mouth and

39:04

blow on it. And then sip it from the

39:06

saucer. Mhmm. And I

39:09

I didn't really understand it back then, but now

39:11

as an adult, I can see that was like her

39:13

tie back to her family, back

39:15

to her culture. Right?

39:17

And so, yeah,

39:20

I mean, for me, I, you

39:22

know, I grew up dealing with a

39:24

lot of racism being an Indian American

39:26

because you're a Latin American living in Illinois.

39:28

And I

39:31

kind of rejected Indian food

39:33

from like junior high through high school.

39:36

I mean, I had more than ten years

39:38

of racism going for me.

39:40

And so I didn't want anything to do with

39:42

Indian food. When I first

39:44

stole a sip of Modi Ben's masala chai,

39:47

that was the first time I was like, Maybe

39:50

there's something to this Indian food. Right.

39:54

But it wasn't until after

39:56

my undergrad, I went to culinary school.

39:58

And that was the first place I went

40:01

where people were asking me, are

40:03

you Indian? And I kind of held my

40:05

breath and they're like, I was like, yeah.

40:07

And they didn't make a joke afterwards.

40:09

They're like, oh, do you know how to make roti? Do you know

40:11

how to make papa? Or do you know how to make And and

40:14

I got kind of excited. I'm like, oh,

40:16

so it's it's okay. It's kinda cool for me

40:18

to be Indian again. Mhmm. Right? Mhmm.

40:20

And so the very first recipe I recreated

40:23

was Moti Ben's chai. Right?

40:25

I walked through the Indian grocery store. I

40:28

gathered all the ingredients. I

40:30

made it at home and it was such a nostalgic

40:33

feeling. And then also a little bit

40:35

of grief, you know, when when I was growing

40:38

up with Modi Bend, she's only spoke with Jirati,

40:40

and I only spoke English. So we didn't

40:42

really connect as much as I would have liked to

40:45

looking back as an adult. And

40:47

so it's it it really

40:49

became a tradition around that time in my,

40:51

like, probably, like, early

40:53

to mid twenties. And to this

40:55

day, I drink it, like,

40:57

at least two times a day.

41:00

Wow. You

41:02

didn't Like you just said, you weren't

41:04

able to speak with her. Like, you couldn't You couldn't

41:06

share an exchange in terms of your language. Right.

41:09

And I remember reading in your story

41:11

that she actually passed away before you

41:13

learned to make a chai from her

41:15

and it was your father

41:17

who actually had a written recipe. So

41:20

how did you learn to make it?

41:22

Like, why was there a written recipe? Well,

41:25

there was a written recipe because my dad was

41:27

the first member of his family to move to the

41:29

United States. He came in nineteen

41:31

sixty nine to San Francisco. And

41:34

he didn't have enough money to visit

41:37

home for several years. He barely

41:39

had enough money to even have phone calls. With

41:41

the family. Mhmm. And so he was on his own

41:43

learning how to make GoodRati food

41:45

for himself. And the first time

41:47

he was able to get a trip home maybe four

41:49

or five years later, he visited Modiban,

41:52

and that's when he started asking her to write

41:54

down some recipes. And masala chai was

41:56

one of the recipes. Now,

41:58

my dad is to the say he's

42:00

not a big chai drinker, but anytime

42:03

relatives come to visit throughout my childhood,

42:05

he would bust out this recipe and make the

42:07

chai. And so

42:09

when I started, he gave me the

42:11

recipe. And I originally used

42:14

her recipe, and then I just tinkered with

42:16

it over the years. And I mean, I think

42:18

almost every time I make it, I do a little something

42:20

different, but it's always the same

42:23

three spices that she

42:24

used, which was ginger, black

42:26

pepper and green cardamom. Okay.

42:29

Alright. Well, let's get to how you make

42:32

massage eye. And obviously, there are

42:34

millions of different ways to make it. How

42:37

do you make it? How do you make a good cup of

42:40

facile? If you were if if I want to go

42:42

away from this right now and make cup for

42:43

myself, which I do. What should I do?

42:47

Well, so it all starts with the spices, and

42:51

there are so many different spices

42:53

you can use. I I've noticed

42:55

that a lot of people they

42:57

they get nostalgic and they like to make the blends that

42:59

their families made. Mhmm. But I've

43:01

also seen people, like, within my own family,

43:04

there's factions who, you know, my

43:06

my alleged nikaki likes to put cinnamon

43:08

in her chai. And my

43:11

Leena likes to put mint into the

43:13

chai, and that's the original ginger Leena

43:16

and black pepper. And

43:17

then just ginger ginger cardamom and green pepper?

43:19

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. you

43:22

can use clove, you can use cinnamon,

43:25

fennel, black cardamom, rose,

43:27

mint, lemongrass, tool seed,

43:30

which is a holy basil, a

43:32

adjuvant or caram seeds, starcony,

43:35

nutmeg, saffron, any of those

43:37

things can be used. Okay. And

43:39

so the base of mostapologize I've

43:42

had has ginger, but it doesn't

43:44

have to have ginger. That's like an important

43:46

thing. And then there's

43:48

what kind of ginger. Do you use dried or

43:50

do you use fresh? And they create

43:53

two completely different cups. The

43:55

dry ginger is a little more spicy

43:57

and more of a one note ginger. Whereas

44:00

the fresh ginger has citrus

44:03

notes and lemongrass notes. It's

44:05

just a whole different experience. So

44:10

So so those are, like, where I would start

44:12

with the spices. Right? Okay. Then you

44:14

gotta figure out what are you how are you gonna treat

44:16

the spices? And so there's two

44:18

main ways that I've seen people treat

44:21

their spices. First is to

44:23

make a masala, a ground masala

44:25

and make enough for, you know, like, twenty

44:27

cups of tea. And that's

44:30

actually how I originally started. Modi ban

44:32

used to do that in her older age because

44:34

it was easier, you know, take a little scoop from

44:36

a jar, put it in the tea pot. And

44:40

I did find that from my

44:42

own personal preference, that leaves kind of

44:44

like a gritty, last few

44:47

Sips with all of those spices

44:49

in the bottom. Even if you use a tea strainer,

44:51

you can't strain them all out. And

44:53

so in my research for this article,

44:56

I discovered that if you

44:58

lightly crush in a mortar

45:01

and pestle, the spices, even just

45:03

a little bit, that helps release

45:06

a lot of their essential oils. Mhmm.

45:09

And if you think about the

45:11

masala, you blend it up, those

45:13

essential oils are evaporating from that

45:15

moment that you blend it. And so if you use it

45:17

at the beginning of the month versus the end of the month,

45:19

it's not Leena have as much flavor at the end of

45:21

the month. Okay. And so that's

45:24

why I so I now use I

45:26

crush my spices in a mortar and pestle.

45:28

Right? And And that still isn't big enough

45:30

to strain out. Right. Right.

45:33

Exactly. Well, and and some of them are, but

45:35

it's it's never I

45:37

just don't get a gritty sip. So the one

45:39

the one caveat to that is I use ground

45:41

ginger because if you've ever gotten a

45:43

piece of dried whole ginger,

45:47

it so much effort to

45:49

to get that into a powder

45:50

form.

45:51

Yeah. And so I use the ground

45:53

ginger and I use about a quarter teaspoon of

45:55

that. And then I will take

45:57

a quarter teaspoon of whole black peppercorn. And

46:00

I'll crush those. And the

46:02

Black peppercorns are kinda like garlic. Like, the

46:04

more you crush them, the spicier they

46:07

are. Mhmm. And so I will fully

46:09

grind them. I want all of that heat.

46:11

I want all of that But as

46:13

if you just wanted to even barely crack them,

46:16

that's enough to get those essential oils

46:18

flowing. Okay. And then I take cardamom.

46:21

And the cardamom amount, it really

46:23

depends on the type of spice you're using or

46:26

the brand of spice you're using. If you're

46:28

using a typical green

46:30

cardamom from an Indian grocery store. I

46:33

and I'm a huge cardamom fan, so this is

46:35

not gonna be for everyone. But highlight around

46:37

seven or eight pods of cardamom.

46:40

Oh, wow. That's awesome. Yeah. It's

46:42

a lot. It's

46:43

a lot, but this is again, this is my nostalgic

46:46

flavor.

46:46

Right? But if you're using my

46:49

favorite spice brand, he uses Diaspora

46:51

co, which is are these organic sustainable spices,

46:54

they pay pay a living wage to

46:56

all of their farmers. And their cardamom

46:59

is like five times

47:01

stronger than any of the cardamom

47:03

in the Indian grocery stores. So I'll only

47:05

use five pods if I'm using deaspora. Okay.

47:08

And then with the cardamom, again, how much

47:10

you crush it changes the flavor? If

47:12

you leave it whole or just barely

47:14

crushed, you'll get more of a floral

47:16

flavor. But if you grind it more,

47:19

you'll get some of the menthol flavors and

47:21

some citrus flavors. So I kind of do

47:23

something in between. I leave some of the

47:25

some of the seeds a little hole

47:28

and slightly crushed and a a good

47:30

chunk of them ground. And I also leave

47:32

the the little husks they come in because

47:34

that all has flavor and you're gonna strain it

47:36

out at the end. Cool. Right? So

47:38

I add that all to my pot with water.

47:41

And then we

47:44

come This is kind of brings us to, like,

47:47

the ratio. So so chime massage

47:49

is made with milk and water. Right?

47:52

And lots of people use different ratios.

47:54

The most common one I've seen and the one I use

47:56

is kind of one to one. So -- Okay.

47:58

-- equal parts, milk, and water.

48:02

And so I start with threefour

48:04

a cup of water. I put it in my pot.

48:06

And I have a one quart pot.

48:08

It's perfect for one cup of chai. And

48:11

so I put that in there, I put the spices in

48:13

there, and

48:16

then there's a couple different

48:18

methods on how to brew the the spices

48:21

and the tea. Some people

48:23

will just put everything in, the water, the milk,

48:25

the spices, the tea all

48:28

at once. And some people will

48:30

do the water with the spices and Leena, and then

48:32

they'll add the milk. That's

48:34

kind of what I prefer. And so

48:36

I I believe that that kind of

48:38

water bath with the spices really

48:40

really hydrates them and kind of makes

48:43

Leena spice

48:45

brew that you add t

48:47

two. So I'll I'll put it in there. I'll turn

48:49

it on maybe medium high I'll let

48:51

it come to a boil. As soon as it comes to

48:53

a boil, I add my tea. And

48:56

the tea that I use, so If

48:58

you be traditional, you will

49:00

use CTCT, Crust

49:04

hair curlty. And you can find this

49:06

in any Indian grocery store. My

49:09

multi brand grew up using a red

49:11

label t. That was one of hers. I

49:13

prefer to use the try boxes true

49:16

blend, which is a blend of crushed

49:18

hair curl, asam, and a little bit of orange

49:20

pico and dargyling just a little bit.

49:24

And the amount of tea you use, again, this

49:26

is it's personal. Right? The typical

49:28

amount is like one and a half teaspoons. I

49:31

am really, really sensitive

49:33

to caffeine, and so I use

49:36

a half a teaspoon of tea. And so

49:39

yeah. So you add Pretty much

49:40

any amount will do. Like, just to hear the

49:42

questions. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And

49:45

so the spices

49:47

and water are boiling. I add the

49:49

tea in, and I do I let that boil

49:52

for around like four minutes. And then

49:54

I add the milk in. And you

49:56

can use any kind of milk. You can use cow's

49:58

milk. You can use soy

50:01

milk, oat milk, hemp,

50:04

protein milk. Like, any of that stuff works.

50:06

I've tested the recipe with all of it.

50:09

I find that whole milk really

50:12

the fat in it really, like, captures

50:14

those essential oils from the spices and

50:16

makes them saying more than using like a two percent

50:19

or a one percent. Sure. And

50:21

so you add the milk and

50:24

Once you add the milk, I keep it on

50:26

medium high until it comes to that first

50:28

boil. And now chai

50:30

is notorious for boiling over the

50:32

pot.

50:33

If you don't boil your chai

50:35

over the pot, you haven't made chai

50:37

enough. Okay? And

50:39

it's literally like it's like one second,

50:41

it's not boiling at all. You turn your back,

50:44

and then it's

50:45

all over the all over the That's

50:47

when it does it too. It actually waits for that.

50:49

Yeah. It really does it. On to you.

50:51

It's on to you. And

50:54

so as soon as it comes to that boil

50:56

and I let the boil get to the very top

50:58

of the pot, I turn the temperature completely

51:00

down to low and that I wait

51:02

till all the foam subsides. And

51:04

then I turn it back up but only

51:07

to medium because if you're using dairy

51:09

milk

51:09

especially, it can't

51:11

handle that medium high heat. It will just

51:13

constantly keep overflowing.

51:14

Yeah. So I keep it on medium and Some

51:18

people prefer to just let it come to a boil once

51:20

and then simmer it a little bit and they're done.

51:24

The owner of the chai box in

51:26

Atlanta, Monica Sunny, she believes

51:29

in the double boil, where she lets it come

51:31

to a boil twice. And she says that

51:33

makes it more like creamy and rich

51:35

and velvety. The method that

51:37

I use is mine comes to a boil

51:39

like 456 times.

51:42

Literally,

51:42

just keep cutting away. You're deal with your kids

51:45

and boils over. You Exactly. Exactly.

51:47

But I'm constantly, like, turning

51:49

it down, waiting for the foam to turning

51:52

it up. Sometimes I'll have my head in the fridge

51:54

and one of my my my seven year old be like mommy,

51:56

the chai, and I'll have to run over it's

51:58

just soaked up and turned it down. I

52:01

really like that the flavor that that

52:03

the multiple oils give And

52:06

if you think about

52:06

it, it's kind of mixing everything up as it

52:08

comes up and then goes back down again. Yeah.

52:12

And so the amount of time you wanna simmer

52:14

it totally up to you. I think

52:16

it's gonna be different based on everyone's stovetop.

52:19

I do mine for around

52:21

six minutes and thirty seconds anywhere

52:23

between, like, five to seven minutes.

52:26

What I'm looking for is when it's done,

52:28

it equals eight ounces. Okay.

52:30

And so, like, the first couple times I made it,

52:32

I will I will strain it using a little,

52:34

like, a cup tea strainer

52:37

into a liquid measuring cup just to

52:40

make sure I get that right evaporation because that's

52:42

the flavor that I like. Yeah. And

52:44

then the last thing is, do

52:46

you use sugar or not? Some people

52:48

don't like sugar. I am a proponent

52:51

of even a tiny bit of sugar. It

52:53

really accentuates those spices. It

52:55

really helps you taste it. Yeah.

52:58

I have a sweet tooth, so I use

53:00

tablespoon of sugar. Okay? You don't have

53:02

to, but that's that's

53:05

what I do. And so that's that's

53:07

how I make my try. Leena,

53:09

thank you so much. I can't wait to go make another

53:11

couple of chai. Thank you so much,

53:13

Francis.

53:16

Leena Granier is a food and culture

53:19

writer based in the San Francisco Bay area

53:21

and you can read a terrific story, wrote.

53:23

By the history of massage and how important

53:26

it is in her family at EpiCurious.

53:28

And on our website, Splendidtable dot

53:30

org. You can find her recipe if they fresh

53:32

ginger, a solid tea. Well,

53:35

that is our show this week.

53:37

Hey. Take time for nice cup of tea today.

53:39

We'll talk to you next week. APM

53:43

studios are run by Chandra Cavati, Alex

53:45

Stafford and Dewey and Gavith. Left Perlman's

53:47

our executive producer and his phone table was

53:49

created by Sally Swift and

53:51

Limozetta Casper. It's made every

53:53

week by technical producer, Jennifer Duffy,

53:55

producer, Erica Romero, digital producer,

53:57

James Napoli, and managing producer, Sally

54:00

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54:02

O'Keefe at MarketPlace's New York Bureau.

54:04

Be sure to subscribe to the podcast on Spotify,

54:07

Apple, or wherever you to download, and be sure

54:09

to leave us a review. I'm Francis

54:11

Lam, and this is HPM Studios.