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Frances Lam, and this is the splendid

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table from APM. So

1:30

our episode today is dead gated to your

1:33

cooking questions. We'd love to hear

1:35

from you anytime, so keep your questions

1:37

coming. And one of the reasons I love these

1:39

calling shows So they get to do them

1:41

with friends, helping me out. Today,

1:44

we have the chef Robynne Maii, she's probably

1:46

one of the most down to earth cooks to ever

1:48

won a James Beard Award. You know,

1:50

the menu at her restaurant fit in Honolulu.

1:53

It's not precious tastings or tweezer

1:55

food. It's a steak. That

1:57

tastes like Korean barbecue and club

2:00

sandwiches and fried chicken.

2:02

Anyway, when I got to meet her a few months back,

2:05

She actually told me how much she's love listening

2:07

to her show over the years and how she

2:09

really loves it. The listeners call in, so

2:12

We asked if you want to come on over, and here

2:15

is Robin

2:15

Maii. So chef Robynne,

2:18

great to see you.

2:19

Hi, Francis. Thank you for having me.

2:22

I am so excited to have you and I

2:24

wish I was there with you right now

2:26

in your beautiful restaurant in Honolulu.

2:28

But I am in a weird office

2:31

in Midtown Manhattan. So it feels

2:33

very far away.

2:34

Well, don't worry,

2:37

the weather isn't perfect today, so you're

2:39

not missing

2:39

much. Thank

2:42

you for telling me. That is the kindest thing you could

2:44

have told. Okay. Okay.

2:46

So actually, let's go back to when we first met

2:48

there in Hawaii. And I

2:51

when we were talking, you were telling me

2:53

the story of, like, you're very winding path

2:55

to become a chef. You are a

2:57

dancer among other things.

2:59

But obviously, being from Hawaii, you've been

3:02

exposed to the food of so many different cultures

3:04

your whole life. Was

3:06

there like a specific experience you

3:08

had in the restaurant industry that

3:10

made you think,

3:11

yes. I love this. I wanna

3:13

cook. I wanna serve people. I

3:16

think I had that experience before

3:19

I even knew what the restaurant

3:21

industry was. Mhmm. It

3:24

was in college. I I decided

3:26

that I wanted to go to culinary school

3:29

and I think it was

3:31

obviously because of my love of food and

3:35

and growing up in a cooking family,

3:37

not professional, but just a family that loved

3:39

to cook. Mhmm. But also, I

3:41

just kept the same question in my head.

3:43

What can I see myself doing? Day in

3:46

and day out, day in and day out for

3:48

hours? And then four

3:50

years. And I

3:53

just couldn't see myself sitting at a

3:55

desk. I I didn't necessarily

3:58

think that I could dance for thirty years.

4:01

And so, cooking just really called to me.

4:04

Mhmm. And then

4:06

when you're cooking, like, what's the feeling

4:09

you have? I mean, obviously, it's like, it's a very

4:11

different thing when you're cooking in a restaurant. But, like, when

4:13

you're actually physically doing the act of

4:14

cooking? Like, do you still have a connection to that

4:18

to that feeling? Yeah. It's

4:20

every day. The so when

4:22

people say, So what is having

4:24

a modern dance degree have to do with cooking?

4:26

And every single day I feel like

4:29

I'm dancing? Because And

4:32

I think if you talk to people who do live

4:34

theater or musicians or

4:36

dancers, they'll all say the same

4:38

thing where after

4:41

the set, they'll say, oh, that felt

4:43

awesome or okay, maybe that was little bit

4:45

awkward. And the reality is is

4:47

that really nobody the the

4:49

guests or the audience doesn't really know.

4:52

They just hopefully enjoy the

4:54

the presentation or the music or or

4:57

the live performance, but it is

4:59

that sort of uncertainty of what

5:01

everyone else is doing and you hope that

5:03

it just lines up and that everyone's in

5:05

the right place and sometimes people

5:08

are not in the right place and what do you do

5:10

in that moment and cooking is exactly

5:12

the same. It's so

5:14

dynamic every single day. And

5:17

so I I do feel like

5:19

I'm very close to the

5:22

the dancing part, and then I also get

5:24

to cook so that it's it's I don't know.

5:26

It it just all Maii sense to me.

5:28

Yeah. You know, when I look at your

5:30

restaurants menu, it's

5:33

it gets so eclectic. Right? There's like

5:36

steak that looks like sort of Korean barbecue,

5:38

there's fried chicken and are greens. There's

5:42

canola leaf for dessert, moving

5:44

with passion fruit because you are in Hawaii. There's

5:47

a very unpretentious feeling to the menu.

5:51

There's just like a kind of vibe to when I'm reading

5:53

it, there's a vibe just like, this is just delicious food.

5:55

Like, it it's not like I'm not trying to, like, have

5:57

a a concept or have this, like,

6:00

big picture thing we're trying to

6:02

do here. Like, it just feels like, oh, I love

6:04

this dish. I wanna make this for you. I love this dish. I

6:06

want you to enjoy that. Is your

6:08

cooking at

6:08

home, like similar to your restaurant cooking?

6:11

Yes. It's exactly how we grew up

6:13

eating food in -- Mhmm. -- in my

6:15

house. My parents

6:18

are both third generation. So

6:21

I always tell everyone I feel like a a

6:23

fake Korean because even though my mother

6:25

is ethnically pure Korean. She

6:28

can't speak a lick of it. And

6:31

we grew up eating Yes, Korean

6:33

food on special occasions, but mostly

6:37

American foods, spaghetti, taco

6:40

nights, she would make these

6:44

spare ribs with sauerkraut, of

6:47

course, chili, fried

6:50

chicken, and

6:52

choladas. So she

6:55

felt she was a magazine reader.

6:57

She she subscribed to Bon Appetides

7:00

and to Gourmet magazine. And so she

7:02

was always flipping through and trying to

7:04

keep things kind of like fresh

7:06

for her family of five. And

7:09

so we grew up eating exactly

7:12

how the restaurant menu reads.

7:15

That's so funny. It's perfect because

7:17

it totally feels like, oh, I can totally imagine

7:19

magazine. We're like, one spread is gonna be like,

7:22

oh, here's great sandwiches or the next spread

7:24

is? Yes. Oh, here's here's

7:26

a cool way to do your collagreens.

7:28

And it was my my mother

7:30

is is a teacher professionally.

7:33

So she really loved

7:35

following the recipe. She is a

7:38

we call her a recipe hugger. My

7:40

dad is your typical sort of,

7:43

like, male Maii

7:45

cook meaning that they feel more free

7:47

spirited and, like,

7:49

don't follow the recipe, making

7:52

making the waffles Right? Making

7:54

the pancakes on Sunday, but also

7:56

like manning the grill outside.

8:00

So they they really fell into kind

8:02

of conventional, you

8:04

know, gender roles in the

8:06

kitchen. But the I think the

8:08

mix really I just

8:11

took it for granted that everyone grew up

8:13

eating delicious food like us, and then

8:15

I realized how, you know, when

8:17

you approach adulthood, how how

8:19

special it

8:20

was, and so I don't take it for granted anymore.

8:23

Yeah. Right on. And so when

8:25

you have like a day off or whatever and you're going

8:27

out, where do you go

8:28

eat? Like, what do you love to go eat? I

8:31

like to eat at the hole in the walls.

8:34

So the places that

8:37

do specific dishes

8:39

really, really well

8:41

because it reminds me of terrific

8:43

home cooking.

8:45

Yeah. What's an example? Like, where did you

8:47

go last weekend? I

8:49

love Helena's Hawaiian food. And

8:51

-- Mhmm. -- I know that that's that's a very,

8:53

you know, it's iconic. It's a classic

8:56

restaurant, but the food

8:58

has been the same for decades.

9:01

And it's just when you when you

9:03

take a bite, it it just soothes

9:05

you in all the right ways It's

9:08

nostalgic, and it's not

9:10

in your head. It tastes exactly the

9:12

same. And so, you know, sometimes you go

9:14

to these go to restaurants and then And then

9:16

everyone at the table is like, oh, it's not the

9:18

same. It's different. No. Helena's is the

9:20

same.

9:21

Every time? Every time there

9:23

is another restaurant that I like a

9:25

Vietnamese restaurant that I like to go to.

9:29

Oh my goodness. What is the name of the restaurant?

9:32

Oh, bak nom. The

9:34

name of the restaurant. It's on King Street. And

9:36

it's the same thing. It's run it's literally

9:39

run by a husband and

9:41

wife team. And

9:43

they've owned it for decades now

9:46

too, and and and the wife

9:48

is in the kitchen every day. Every

9:50

day. She's in the kitchen.

9:53

Yeah. There's people. It it's like the iconic

9:55

holes in the wall. Like, you love them,

9:57

you lie in eyes them, but a little bit you wanna be

9:59

like, Got it. Take a break.

10:02

I

10:02

don't like I'm not going to What is

10:03

one day a week for yourself? I do have

10:05

to mention that And

10:08

I I feel very comfortable sharing this with you,

10:10

but I do eat an inordinate amount

10:12

of zippy's takeout. No,

10:14

right on. Because

10:17

It is the Hawaiian Diner. It is the Hawaiian

10:19

Diner and it's super,

10:21

super consistent

10:23

and it never disappoints.

10:26

Hold on. Actually, let me since you

10:28

talk about horrendous, I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you one

10:31

quick thing about that. What's your order at

10:33

horrendous? So horrendous is like this

10:35

everyone that I talked to in Hawaii

10:37

who was like, did you have, like, straight

10:40

up, like, Hawaiian food, like, native Hawaiian food.

10:43

I

10:43

said, oh, well, where should I go? And they all say,

10:45

good holidays. So what's your order there?

10:49

Our order is we have the pork

10:51

la la we have

10:53

their they call it PPKala,

10:56

and PPKala means different things

10:58

in with in Hawaii, but their PBKala

11:01

is basically marinated

11:04

short ribs that

11:06

get slow cooked and

11:09

the recipe is very very

11:11

very secret. Mhmm. You

11:14

cannot get get that recipe out

11:17

of the fine folks that work

11:19

in jaladas. So I if

11:21

I had to try to recreate it, I I there

11:23

is there is soy sauce there is

11:26

sugar, there is garlic, perhaps

11:29

there is a kiss of ginger -- Mhmm.

11:31

but not much else. Yeah.

11:34

For the pork lalal, like The pork lalal

11:36

is it's pork

11:38

butt that's been slow cooked within

11:41

the luau leaves. And

11:43

the leaves just become slick

11:47

with that fat from the pork

11:49

butt and it just it becomes very

11:52

melty. Even melted

11:54

than collards. Yes.

11:56

And and and really there's no other

11:59

green that I can compare it to.

12:01

It it literally melts in your mouth.

12:04

We have that with poy, lomi

12:06

salmon. I always have to

12:08

get rice and I

12:11

love their squid, which

12:13

is same leaves, the lua

12:15

leaf, but lots

12:18

of coconut milk. And --

12:20

Mhmm. -- and we in

12:23

Hawaii, we say squid, but it's not actually

12:25

we really mean octopus.

12:28

So we call it squid lua output. It's

12:30

actually octopus.

12:32

Okay. And the and the lua

12:34

leaf is Taro leaves. Right?

12:36

It's

12:36

like the greens it's

12:37

like the greens from the Toro plant?

12:38

Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

12:40

They they really they really are Maii. Like,

12:42

when they cook down, they are so silky

12:45

and

12:45

melty. Like -- Yeah. --

12:46

if if, like,

12:47

imagine, like, the most tender spinach you've

12:49

ever had? Yes. But it doesn't

12:51

have you know how when you eat spinach, it

12:54

I I know there is something chemically going on in

12:56

in on the

12:56

palate, but it has that sort of astringent --

12:58

Mhmm.

12:59

-- astringent teeth kind of like

13:01

a chalky

13:02

and rough

13:03

-- Yes. Yes. -- that doesn't happen with the

13:05

with the lua leaf. It it's a

13:07

very, very, very, very it's

13:10

It's ugosh.

13:11

Move that, yeah, it's such

13:13

a great texture. Yes. Love it.

13:18

Alright. Without really missing a wife.

13:21

We're talking to chef, Rhonda Maii, and we'll

13:23

be back with her to take your questions in a moment.

13:25

I'm Frances Lam, and this is the Splendid

13:28

table from APM. The

13:32

Splendid table is supported by First Republic

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That's made in cookware dot

15:00

com slash Splendid. I'm

15:06

Francis Lam, and this is the show for curious

15:08

cooks and eaters. We're talking to Robin

15:10

Maii, the James Beard award winning chef

15:12

of fetch in Honolulu, and

15:14

we're taking your cooking questions together.

15:17

Let's get to our first caller.

15:21

Alright. Let's go to Claire.

15:23

Hi, Francis. This is Claire calling

15:25

from Saudi Arabia. I

15:27

was wondering what to do with leftover

15:30

dot I have mostly just the bones

15:33

and skins from a

15:35

beautiful roast that I Maii,

15:37

and I don't want all of it

15:40

goodness to go away, so I would

15:42

love some suggestions. Thank

15:45

you for doing what you do. I love the Splendid

15:48

table. And have been listening

15:50

to it my whole life.

15:52

Okay. Take care. Bye.

15:55

That is so super nice. Well, thank you, Claire.

15:57

And Shelf, what would you do with

15:59

her leftover roast stock? I love that she has the carcass

16:01

still too.

16:02

Yes. I have two answers

16:05

to that, and they're both sort of soup because

16:07

she has the

16:08

carcass, it's really nice to

16:10

just use the whole thing. So

16:13

I my first instinct is to make

16:16

junk

16:17

Oh, yeah. So try

16:19

to pull off as much of that meat

16:21

first and set

16:23

it aside. And then you take

16:25

the carcass and then you make a stock out

16:27

of the carcass.

16:29

Just sort of like leftover turkey, you know,

16:31

your turkey dinner, we always had Chuck,

16:33

which is congee.

16:34

Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Yes. You'd like storage. Yeah.

16:37

Yes. And then you you cook that

16:39

carcass and depending where you wanna

16:41

go, you can add some aromatics to

16:43

it like onions, and

16:45

celery, and carrots. If

16:47

you wanted to go a different route, you can add some

16:49

like ginger and garlic. But really, you're

16:51

making a flavorful stock. You'll let

16:54

that go for maybe

16:56

an hour and a half. It doesn't have to be

16:58

very long. Yeah. Yeah. You boil.

17:01

Like, in, like, you know, in the French style

17:03

and culinary school is we're taught. It's like, oh, never

17:05

let a boil. You want it clear. Mean,

17:09

I I don't feel like if

17:10

you boil it. It tastes good. I think you can boil

17:12

it. I think that -- Yeah. -- a rolling hard

17:14

boil is maybe a little bit too

17:16

much action, but, like, yeah. We don't have

17:18

time to just, like, watch it simmer. So

17:21

Right.

17:22

And and, you know, we're making congee. We're not

17:24

making a consume. So I

17:27

would

17:27

also add some salt at this

17:29

point. Okay. And then take that

17:31

carcass out and then let it cool. And if

17:33

there's any more bits that we can, like,

17:36

you know, excavate from the

17:38

carcass, I would do that. And

17:40

then and then of course straining the stock.

17:42

So now you have the stock and then you can add your

17:44

rice to it and you just let it cook

17:47

the ratio. I feel

17:49

like I don't know this off the top of

17:51

my head. I feel like it's something like

17:54

one to

17:56

twelve in terms of rice

17:58

to liquid.

18:00

Not a cup of rice to, like, twelve cups of

18:02

stock or whatever? Yes. But I

18:04

I do know that kanji

18:07

slash duck is so forgiving

18:09

and you can, like, continue to add some liquid.

18:12

And the fun part is the garnishing. So

18:14

you can do, like, roasted peanuts and

18:17

finely shredded lettuce, cilantro,

18:20

scallions, and then, you know,

18:22

you can dress it with anything. Soy

18:24

sauce, sriracha,

18:28

anything that you have, white pepper, oyster

18:31

sesame oil. And really,

18:35

it's I mean, I grew up eating jokes. So

18:37

I think that's a really easy

18:39

way to use the whole

18:41

carcass and the meat. Something very

18:43

similar that I thought about

18:46

is Laksa. Which

18:49

is the Malaysian coconut curry soup. So

18:51

you can start the same way except

18:54

you're gonna introduce some coconut milk

18:56

in there, and then I would just use one

18:59

of the curry paste. Sure. You can

19:01

use the traditional Malaysian curry

19:03

paste that you can find an Asian grocer,

19:05

but really anything that you have on hand,

19:07

any color, the yellow one, the green one,

19:09

the red

19:10

one, it really doesn't matter. And

19:14

With the lime

19:14

You make the same you say you make the same duck stock?

19:16

Yes. But

19:17

add a little bit of canned curry paste

19:19

and coconut milk. Yes. Okay.

19:22

And then, you know, you can add

19:24

some some vegetables, maybe

19:27

some chunked up carrots, and potatoes, Maii

19:31

some turn up. Loxade,

19:33

I would add a bit of sugar. So

19:36

some brown sugar to it to

19:38

balance out that heat

19:41

and then to actually, you know,

19:43

make coconut tastes more coconut

19:45

y.

19:47

And then you add the the duck meat

19:50

to it.

19:50

That sounds super good. But I love Laksa

19:53

because I

19:55

just love the brightness of the flavors. You can

19:57

squeeze them lime at the end and add some

19:59

cilantro

20:01

and noodles. And noodles. Yes.

20:02

Absolutely. And then if you happen

20:05

to have on hand, I would never say,

20:07

hey, you need to go out and buy this to make

20:09

Laksa. But if you had

20:11

some some shrimp on hand, you can just

20:13

throw that into shrimp and duck go

20:15

really nicely together. Oh, I love

20:18

that. What do you do with the skin? Like,

20:20

would you would you boil the the skin in the stock?

20:22

Yeah. I would actually take the skin off,

20:25

set it aside, and then you can crisp

20:27

it up in the oven or underneath broiler

20:30

and use it as a garnish sort of like

20:32

cracklings? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

20:34

Okay. Alright. Let's move on to

20:37

d. My question

20:39

is about smoked salmon. I

20:41

used to work with smoked salmon, but I've forgotten

20:44

much more than I ever knew about it.

20:46

So here's my question. I have

20:49

a frozen salmon in my freezer because

20:51

my husband caught in

20:52

Alaska.

20:53

Cover it on. I would

20:55

like to take it out thought and

20:57

process it for smoking, and I'm not

20:59

sure exactly how to do

21:01

that. I need to know What

21:04

it how to make a brine? I think

21:06

it's half brown sugar,

21:08

half white sugar, and the other half of the

21:10

brine should be salt. Then I need

21:12

to know how long I would brine it,

21:16

cut it up into smaller pieces,

21:18

how big and

21:21

then I would like to smoke it in

21:23

a smoke box on my barbecue,

21:25

but I'm not sure how to time that.

21:28

Or how to tell when it is finished.

21:30

I'm hoping this chef can help me.

21:34

Okay. So, chef, what would you do

21:36

if you have a beautiful side of

21:38

salmon that you want to

21:39

smoke? I guess we don't really know if she wants

21:41

the hot smoker or cold smoker, but

21:43

Yes. Like coke smoke at like locks, you'd

21:45

slice it for bagels and or hot smoke.

21:47

You you have like this beautiful cooked

21:50

smoked

21:50

salmon, but It does sound like she wants

21:52

to hot smoke it. And she

21:55

has a smoker box

21:57

already And so

21:59

that's like half the work is done if she

22:01

has a smoker box. Okay.

22:04

Look at smoking, fish, in

22:07

three steps. So

22:09

the first step is to do a brine

22:12

and a good ratio

22:15

is one part sugar

22:17

to two part salt.

22:19

And then how much and then how many parts of water?

22:22

Now have to do the Maii, Francis. Hold on.

22:24

Yeah.

22:27

Let's

22:28

see. Wasn't it his question as Okay. So if we go

22:30

one pound of kosher salt, to

22:32

half a pound of brown sugar, and

22:35

then now eight

22:36

quarts. Okay.

22:37

So two gallons of water.

22:39

Two gallons of water. That makes

22:41

a bunch. Yeah. Because

22:43

it's it's the restaurant ratio that

22:45

we use here because we're making a

22:47

lot. But,

22:48

anyways, there

22:48

we go. Yeah. You can have that. It's a gallon

22:50

of water,

22:51

half pound

22:52

of salt, and a quarter pound of brown

22:54

sugar.

22:54

Oh my god. See? It's the University

22:56

of Michigan. That's there. I Education.

23:00

Okay. So that's the brain. And

23:02

you're gonna depending upon how thick

23:05

your fish fillets

23:07

are, you're going to soak

23:11

the fish in that brine. I would say

23:13

if your fish is about an inch

23:15

Maii two hours, any

23:17

thicker, maybe any anywhere from

23:19

two to four hours in that brine.

23:21

Okay. So not super long. Not long? No. Over

23:23

for three days or whatever? No. Okay.

23:26

And then what we do,

23:28

because we don't have a smoke box at

23:30

the restaurant, we do cheat and

23:33

add a little bit of liquid smoke. And

23:35

and I and I don't think that that's a bad thing.

23:37

I think that liquid smoke gets bad

23:39

rap because people use too much Sure.

23:41

You just need to use a smidge. Okay.

23:43

Okay. So that's step one. The brining.

23:46

Step two is now

23:48

I'm gonna throw out a technical term It's

23:51

called

23:51

pellicle. So

23:52

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. You wanna take the fish out,

23:55

pat it dry really, really nicely, and

23:57

then put it on a rack. Rack

24:00

on a sheet pan. Okay.

24:02

So there's airflow and you wanna

24:04

space the fish out enough where

24:07

the air can circulate and

24:09

you wanna let that cruise in your

24:11

refrigerator until what

24:13

is called a pellicle

24:14

forms. And it's just like a thin membrane

24:17

Yeah. Like, because like a sort of tacky skin

24:19

-- Yeah. -- it dries out enough to be sort of tacky. Yeah.

24:21

Yes. And what that

24:23

does is it allows the

24:26

the smoke to really sort

24:28

of penetrate into

24:30

the fish. Like, it's like almost like

24:32

it grabs onto the smoke. Yeah.

24:36

That will take depending upon the

24:39

atmosphere of your refrigerator. That

24:41

would take at least twenty four hours?

24:44

Oh. You can feel it. It should feel tacky

24:47

and and sort of, like, dry.

24:49

At the same time. So that's

24:52

step two. And then step three

24:54

is the smoking itself. I

24:57

like fruit tree wood chips, cherry

25:00

and apple, over

25:03

Hickory, and then you wanna make

25:05

sure that there's like a constant temperature,

25:08

you know, of of the smoking

25:10

process. At the restaurant, we

25:13

actually set the oven at

25:15

two hundred degrees. Mhmm. And then

25:18

we take a sheet pan and

25:20

we line it with foil, we put the chip

25:22

on and then we put that directly onto

25:24

our gas stoves and we

25:27

blast the stoves until

25:29

those chips are actually smoking. They

25:31

turn they turn they turn black. So it's

25:33

actually you're craning the smoke. We put

25:35

that into the oven underneath the

25:38

fish that's still on the rack. If

25:41

you don't have a smoke box, you kind of have

25:43

to monitor, you know, what's happening

25:45

to make sure that there's a continuous amount

25:47

of smoke. So that's a key. You may have

25:49

to re light those chips, you

25:51

know, or, like, refresh the

25:52

chips. You don't

25:53

see them sparkling and you don't smell

25:55

it. Yeah. Yeah. And and

25:57

then sometimes we, like, you know, keep the door

25:59

just a jar just to get some airflow

26:01

in. So that's what's nice about having a box is

26:03

that it's it's it's designed

26:06

to have that airflow.

26:07

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then how long would you

26:09

leave it in there for?

26:10

It takes anywhere from two to

26:13

four hours. And

26:15

so I'm It's like a whole

26:16

side of seven. Yep. And then

26:19

what you're looking for to you

26:21

are essentially cooking it. You're

26:23

just cooking it very very slowly with

26:25

an abundance of smoke. And so

26:28

you wanna make sure that it's cooked all the way

26:30

through. So you wanna you need to

26:32

check it to make sure it's flaking. Yeah.

26:34

Then you don't wanna go too long because then you're

26:36

just gonna, like, make turkey. It's gonna

26:39

dry out. turkey. Yes. Yes.

26:41

But I love this idea and, you know, I'm

26:44

not I'm not embarrassed to say this, but smoked,

26:47

fish, keeps beautifully in the freezer.

26:50

Oh, right on. Yeah. Delicious. Alright.

26:52

Cool. Let's go to another one. Let's go to Jeff.

26:55

Hi, Francis and Robynne. And I have a

26:57

question that's a bit controversial. It's

26:59

about chili crisp. I'm new

27:01

to the chili crisp game. I started

27:03

with Carla Lolly Music's mustard chili

27:06

sizzle. It's lovely, simple,

27:08

very few ingredients. Mhmm. And

27:10

I loved it. So next, I took the leap and

27:12

tried Sola l Whaley's chili crisp

27:14

recipe that has no fewer than

27:16

seventeen ingredients. All

27:19

respect in the world to Sola. But I found

27:21

it almost too complex. And it's

27:23

a bit cost prohibitive. Ingredients like

27:25

cardamom pods, cashews, Shatake

27:28

mushroom powder, and other things that you

27:30

might not just have laying around in your pantry.

27:33

Right. So I need a hot take. Get it.

27:35

Hot chili crisp, which

27:37

ingredients must be in chili

27:39

crisp. What's that base recipe

27:41

that will set me up for

27:42

success? Thanks a lot.

27:44

Oh, wow, Jeff. Thanks, Jeff. I love

27:46

this question. Yeah. Actually,

27:49

for people who don't know it yet, how would

27:51

you describe a chili crisp? Well,

27:54

growing up, a chili crisp was

27:57

a chili oil that had all

27:59

these flavorful chunks

28:01

inside. Mhmm. But

28:04

nowadays, I think it's like really

28:07

really taken on a new

28:09

life. Totally. Sola's

28:12

recipe

28:13

is almost sort of like a snack.

28:16

Yeah. It's because It's so chunky.

28:19

And and she does say she's unapologetic

28:22

about that. And I don't know

28:24

solo personally, but I know I know

28:26

her background. She's a chef. She's

28:28

restaurant chef. And Yeah. --

28:30

restaurant chefs, when they start tinkering

28:33

in the kitchen and making their version

28:35

of something that they love, they

28:37

will actually go to the extremes.

28:40

They wanna make the the

28:42

most sort of impactful

28:45

version out

28:47

there. And I think that is the spirit

28:49

of Sola's

28:50

recipe, I

28:53

feel like we can do a whole show on chili crisp.

28:58

Yeah. Totally. I think you're totally right though, like, when I

29:00

was going up, we certainly had chili oils

29:02

that had, like, little bits of the chili,

29:05

like, you know, maybe a little bit

29:07

of garlic, but I think like chili crisp

29:10

is, you know, sort of more modern

29:12

version I've seen, you know, ones

29:14

with, like, seeds and nuts and lots

29:16

of fried shallots and and

29:18

fried garlic bits it's a condiment

29:20

like you would use chili oil, but it's like there's

29:23

so much crunchiness. And I think people

29:25

have just taken it and thrown with it. And I kind of

29:27

feel I'm kinda Jeff, I hate to say it.

29:29

There's so many good brands out there. Like, just go

29:31

buy one. The lago mod

29:34

is like four dollars. You

29:36

know, there's like these artisanal brands are like fifteen

29:38

dollars, you know, they can get a wide

29:41

range in price, but like, there's so many people

29:43

just buy it. I kinda feel like if gonna make Maii, go

29:46

all out and just make it, like, solo. I'm like,

29:48

I'm with

29:48

solo. Like seventeen ingredients packet

29:50

full of, like, fried shallots, like, you

29:52

know, do it up. I think

29:55

that on the other side of the spectrum,

29:57

Gen Aviv Co has a recipe

30:00

on The New York Times cooking

30:03

site. And hers is really,

30:05

really pared down. Mhmm. Although

30:07

she's still you're still

30:08

cooking, frying

30:10

the

30:11

Trying the chilies. Yeah. Trying yeah.

30:13

But she has and I think

30:15

this is brilliant. She does have

30:17

a hack in there. She asked

30:20

for dried minced onion.

30:22

Oh, yeah. Which I think is brilliant.

30:25

My inclination, because we

30:28

the restaurant is in Chinatown. I

30:30

would buy the prefab

30:33

fried shallots. Have you Do you know

30:35

what I'm talking about? Oh,

30:36

got it. Let's see.

30:38

You know, that you can just

30:39

A big jar of just that crispy fried shallots.

30:41

Yeah. But I think that the

30:43

the spirit of chili crisp

30:45

is you need the oil, obviously.

30:48

And then you need some sort of

30:50

fried aromatic. So it could be onions,

30:53

it could be shallots, it could be the mix.

30:56

Not all chili, crisp have ginger,

30:58

but sometimes that finds their way in. But

31:01

I do think there always has to be

31:03

a sugar component and a salt

31:05

component. And then

31:06

What do you mean by sugar? Like, you literally put

31:08

sugar in it?

31:09

Yes. Or Yes. Okay. And

31:11

and again, this is I think that

31:13

this is part of what makes chili

31:16

Chris addicting as people don't realize

31:18

it it is the sugar that is sort

31:20

of like

31:20

Mhmm. -- you know Is it

31:21

balances? Right? Yes. Sweet. It's spicy, but

31:23

having that sugar kinda keeps you? Yes. Keep

31:25

you keep on going back for more.

31:27

Yeah. Yeah. And then, of course, there's the chili

31:30

aspect. And so you can

31:32

go as simple as just using red

31:34

pepper flakes or you can go as elaborate

31:36

and just about use any dried

31:38

chili that you can get your hands on. You just

31:40

wanna make sure you take out the seeds before

31:43

you start processing the the

31:45

chilies up into smaller bits. So

31:48

-- Mhmm. -- and then the last well,

31:51

I was gonna say the last. Maybe there are two

31:53

more components to chili crisp. One

31:55

is I think there does need to be

31:57

a seed aspect or a nut

31:59

aspect. Okay. So sesame

32:01

seed. For for the texture. Yeah. Yeah. You know, peanuts,

32:04

cashews, soy nuts.

32:07

And then some people

32:09

will probably say they're hasseby

32:11

sichuan peppercorns, I

32:14

don't know. It's not my favorite. My

32:17

opinion would you need to use sort of like

32:19

just just the right

32:20

amount, but some people like that numbing aspect

32:23

when they

32:23

when they when they Maii this. So I

32:25

I love this question because there's

32:27

so many different there's not a right answer.

32:30

It's just whatever floats your boat. Yeah.

32:32

Totally. And, really, if you're using

32:35

dried mint onion prefab or dried

32:38

or fried chalets prefab, The

32:41

bottom line is is that you you can

32:43

still make a terrific addicting condiments

32:46

either way. Yeah. And

32:48

it's funny because people are like, oh, what do you put it

32:50

on? And think the the automatic answer for everyone

32:53

who's fan of is like, oh, literally anything.

32:55

But I love it. Especially

32:57

with like stir fried noodles --

32:59

Yes. -- or, you know, something like

33:01

that where you can kind of really

33:03

I

33:04

don't know. I like that, like, mixing it into stuff.

33:06

I love it. I love it on eggs.

33:09

Eggs great.

33:10

Yeah. Like, sunny eggs on rice.

33:12

Yeah. Or, like, or something really simple.

33:15

Like, a very simple cooked

33:17

piece of chicken, a very simple pork chop

33:19

or something like that -- Yeah. -- like a little bit chili crisp.

33:22

But, yeah, for me, it's it's fried

33:24

rice, fried noodles, I always reach for

33:26

some kind of chili oil condiment. I

33:28

start doing with pasta

33:29

too, actually.

33:30

Yo. Yo. I did I

33:32

there's this great brand called Flyby Jeng.

33:35

And she's actually based in sichuan, so there's sichuan

33:37

peppercorn in that one. And it's probably

33:39

the least crispy, chili crisp

33:41

I can think of. Like, she has, like,

33:43

fermented black

33:44

beans. Like, there's more, like, sort soft textures

33:46

and noodles. It's not crunchy or crispy, really,

33:48

but very tasty. Super

33:51

delicious, floral aromatic. And I

33:53

start putting it on macaroni and

33:54

cheese. And, like, now, it's like, can't

33:56

have macaroni and cheese without fly by jing

33:59

chili sauce. My mouth is watery.

34:01

That sounds so good. Like, cheesy

34:03

grits too. Oh, yeah. I

34:05

also think that, Jeff,

34:07

you should come up with your ultimate version

34:10

and then make a whole bunch for

34:12

gift giving for the holidays.

34:15

And people will be so stoked because

34:17

who needs another box of cookies when

34:19

you can get chili crisp from

34:21

someone? Really? think everyone

34:23

should should make chili crisp I love that and

34:25

send me a jar. Yeah. Moving

34:29

back with more of your questions and answers,

34:31

or chef Robynne Maii and then award

34:34

winning cookbook author Nick Sharma joins us

34:36

to talk about crispy things.

34:38

I've ran to slam and this is the splendid

34:40

table from APM.

34:44

Our show is supported by Be My Guest with Ina

34:46

Garten. Ina's official podcast from Food

34:48

Network Back for Third Season. Today,

34:51

we're answering listener questions with chef Robynne

34:53

Maii and learning how to cook with all the delightful

34:55

crispy things with cookbook author Nick Sharma.

34:57

And as you hear in our conversations, there's

34:59

always more to learn and more to share in the kitchen.

35:02

And even for AENA, it's the same way.

35:04

It's all about learning and sharing. We've

35:07

had Anna on our show as a guest, and not only

35:09

does she have great answers, she's always got

35:11

great questions. So in each episode

35:13

of be my guest, I invite a different friend to

35:15

her house to talk about life, love, and career,

35:18

all while cooking, an amazing meal. From

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Misty Copeland to Stanley Touche, Anna

35:22

Dixon the importance of food, family,

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and how we spend our time. Listen

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local dealer for inventory information. I'm

36:32

Frances Lam, and this is the show for curious

36:34

cooks and eaters. Worth Robynne Maii,

36:37

the James Beard award winning chef of fetch

36:39

in Hawaii. We're taking your cooking questions

36:41

today. Alright. And now

36:43

let's go to rock Sam.

36:46

Hi, Francis. I am calling with a question regarding

36:48

oyster mushrooms. I recently

36:50

found a local grocer that

36:52

sells produce

36:55

that is on its way

36:57

out, but still obviously edible. I

36:59

got a bunch of Pacer mushrooms, and I don't know

37:01

what to do with them. Every recipe I find online

37:03

is just thought paid mushrooms and I didn't know if there

37:05

was anything better out

37:06

there. Thanks. Bye. Well,

37:08

thanks,

37:09

Arce. I love that you have a grocer that specializes

37:11

in, like, older produce, that's

37:13

still good. I imagine it's

37:15

like a lot less expensive. And if you cook

37:17

it that night or you cook it in the next couple of days,

37:20

you know, that's a great way to do your shopping. So

37:23

if I wanna get to you in a second, but I have to tell you

37:25

the first way I ever learned to cook oyster mushrooms

37:27

is still my favorite, which is

37:30

because they're in unusual shape, but

37:32

you can kind of like pluck them off like pedals.

37:35

And and the pedals are all pretty much like

37:37

bite size. So you like kind of pluck the oyster mushroom

37:39

apart So they're all individual pedals. And

37:41

you get your ear off and

37:43

going really hot, like, four twenty five or

37:45

whatever. And salt,

37:49

olive oil, get them like

37:51

pretty nicely slicked in the olive oil,

37:53

lay the petals out on your sheet

37:55

tray flat, not like all

37:57

not all piled up on one another, so they have a little

37:59

bit of room to breathe. And then you just roast

38:01

it until the pedals dry.

38:04

And when they dry, they crisp in the oven.

38:06

You have to watch it so you don't burn them.

38:08

But if you get to like a medium to like

38:10

sort of darkish brown, you pull out and you

38:12

can eat them like chips. They have all

38:14

that umami concentrated into

38:16

like a crunchy, oily,

38:19

olive oil y kind of chip. It's like it's

38:21

spectacular. So that's my favorite thing to do

38:23

with oyster

38:24

mushrooms. But what would you say?

38:28

The exact same. I

38:30

I that it I literally

38:32

don't do the exact same. I think

38:34

that the important thing to mention

38:37

is that when

38:40

tossing the mushrooms with

38:43

some olive oil or whatever oil you're

38:45

using is that you're pretty

38:47

generous.

38:47

Yeah. Yeah. We roast a lot of mushrooms

38:49

at the restaurant, and so our new

38:51

cooks when we show them how much oil to

38:54

use, they're they're like afraid.

38:56

They're like, oh my goodness. That's so much

38:58

oil, but but the mushroom

39:00

can handle the oil. I mean, obviously, you

39:02

don't want it swimming, but you really want to

39:04

be generous with the oil. And

39:06

like Frances said, you wanna make sure

39:08

that the pieces are spread out

39:11

so they have some air to, like, circulate

39:13

around them and we

39:15

don't want them too crowded. Otherwise,

39:17

the roasting is not going to be the

39:19

same, but I that's what I would do.

39:21

I would maybe toss some herbs in

39:23

there as well -- Mhmm. -- or maybe

39:25

he's

39:26

You're fancy. Some well, and then

39:28

some then maybe some really,

39:30

really, really thinly sliced garlic.

39:32

But yeah, what a great

39:35

addition to almost anything,

39:37

you

39:38

know? Yeah. And like a a big

39:40

handful of that, I mean, ice

39:42

that didn't just snack on them. You don't have

39:44

to, like, cook them all the way to, like, a chip.

39:46

But, like, until they're a little crispier out and

39:48

maybe still have little chewiness and, like, that's

39:50

a beautiful, you know, just mushroom side

39:53

dish or vegetable dish or From

39:55

there, you can dress it. Like, you're

39:57

saying herbs, like, oh, I think like a a

39:59

salsa verde or a chimichurri --

40:01

Yeah. -- so if lightly dress it, it would be

40:03

delicious. On the side of anything.

40:06

I mean, you can make a beautiful steak, dress

40:08

it with the salsa verde or the chimichurri,

40:11

and then garnish that with the mushrooms on

40:13

top. So, like, instead of having sauteing mushrooms,

40:15

you can have this beautiful, sort of, like, crunchy,

40:18

really, really flavorful umami

40:21

packed garnish.

40:23

Yeah. Also really terrific in

40:25

a salad. Mhmm. You

40:27

know? Because I'm always looking for

40:30

ways to to sort

40:32

of pack in umami in a salad?

40:35

Because I think people would eat more salad.

40:41

Let's all eat more salad. Yes.

40:43

Or I have another idea. So you can

40:45

make, you know, the ubiquitous green

40:48

bean casserole. And instead

40:50

of, like, the the fried eggplant on

40:52

top, you can put this, like, nice roasted

40:55

you know Big ola oysters. Yeah.

40:57

Yeah. Flushing's on top. Flushing's on top. Yeah.

41:00

I love that. That actually sounds great. Like,

41:02

green beans would sound really good with that because they have

41:04

that, like, earthy sweetness. We have like the umami

41:06

and crispiness. I love that. Bush,

41:08

this has been so

41:09

great. It's been so great to see you again,

41:11

and thanks so much for coming by.

41:13

Thank you, Frances. Love, love seeing

41:15

you. Robynne

41:17

Maier is the chef owner of fetch

41:19

in downtown Honolulu, Hawaii, and

41:21

she left with the recipe for simple,

41:24

smooth fish, for the home oven. You'll

41:26

find it at blender table dot org.

41:36

And when we were talking about Chile Chris with

41:38

Jeff Robin, it occurred to me that Okay.

41:41

While it might be a good long time before

41:43

I will go and fry a bunch of shallots and

41:45

garlic chips to make a hot sauce out of them,

41:47

I do love having those things on hand

41:50

to just stuff taste better.

41:52

A plate of noodles or pasta or

41:55

a green bowl, fried rice, salad,

41:58

plate of roasted vegetables, tools that really isn't

42:00

hardly anything, that isn't improved with

42:02

a handful of fried shallots, fried

42:05

garlic, or really anything crispy or crunchy.

42:08

So Nick Sharma is a terrific food

42:10

writer and Copa Gothera, and whose previous

42:12

career was as a scientist. And

42:14

that keeps him curious about how food works

42:17

and how to make it better. And his books

42:19

season and flavor equation are

42:21

so smart and so beautiful, and I thought of them

42:23

right away. When we were thinking about

42:25

crispy things that you can make as

42:28

a cheat code for any meal. Hey,

42:31

Maii. It's great to see you. Likewise, Francis.

42:34

So you are always so

42:36

thoughtful about how flavor works,

42:38

but do you actually know why, like,

42:41

one of the universal things that everyone

42:43

loves is a crispy or crunchy

42:45

texture.

42:46

Oh, absolutely. If you

42:49

think about food, imagine, think about

42:51

it like this. And I'm gonna sound like the

42:53

golden golds when they tell you like, imagine Sicily.

42:55

I'm gonna tell you instead, imagine yourself floating

42:57

in the ocean with no waves, no

43:00

sea life. It's flat. It's

43:02

boring. That's exactly what happens in the

43:04

mouth when you if you're eating,

43:06

for example, yogurt, imagine if it's just

43:08

flat smooth and creamy. That's

43:11

nice initially, but after while your mouth

43:13

will experience what's called fatigue, textural

43:15

fatigue. Mhmm. And that then

43:17

tells the brain that, okay, this

43:19

is boring, like, you know, it needs something

43:22

else. And that's when textures come into play.

43:24

We add different types of

43:26

foods together with different textures, soft

43:28

crunchy, because it builds

43:31

textural interest in the brain. And then

43:33

that makes us appreciate food better because

43:35

it tastes better. It's more delicious.

43:38

So what you're saying? I mean, it's, you know, it's something where

43:40

we kind of all just feel innately, but it's interesting

43:42

to know that, like, oh, the brain actually is, like, talking

43:45

to itself in a way about it. And,

43:47

you know, in in your book, you have a nice list of, like,

43:49

things you can add to a dish or things you can, you

43:51

know, elements that you would add for texture and

43:54

you have soft and tender and creamy. But the

43:56

list for crunchy and crispy is like twice the size

43:58

of everything else. So

44:01

I want to get you to talk about some of

44:03

those things that you like to have

44:05

on hand just to give that contrasting

44:08

texture. And I love

44:10

crispy shallots. I usually fry them

44:12

in oil, but you have a cool oven technique

44:14

for

44:14

them. Can you tell me how you make crispy salads?

44:17

Oh, yeah. So I I'm all

44:20

about being lazy in the kitchen. I like low effort

44:22

recipes that pay off really well because

44:24

I'd really especially with onions and salads,

44:26

do not want to sit in front of them solving

44:28

my way through, storing them on the stove. So

44:30

what I do is thinly

44:32

sliced the shallots or onion, the thinner they are,

44:35

the faster they'll cook, so, you know, they'll crisp

44:37

up faster, but and then what I do is

44:39

I toss them with very little olive oil,

44:41

and a tiny pinch of salt, and

44:44

a little splash of vinegar. And,

44:46

you know, just swirl them around

44:48

directly on the baking sheet, put them in a single

44:50

flat layer, stick them in an oven at three hundred degrees

44:52

Fahrenheit, and then watch them till they get brown.

44:55

And crispy. And what I do is

44:57

occasionally after the first fifteen minutes,

44:59

I'll go in and, you know, just kind of give them a

45:01

good swirl and move them all around so they evenly

45:04

brown on the baking sheet. So

45:06

this method I find produces better

45:08

crispier, shallots, or onions because

45:12

the surface area is just wide.

45:14

So the rate of evaporation is better. If

45:16

I used a saucepan which I used to use before

45:19

when I learned how to make them, it

45:21

always ends up becoming jammie because

45:23

it's so difficult to control the rate of evaporation.

45:25

So all that water that's coming from the onions

45:28

or the shallots starts to condense and fall

45:30

back into the pan and so then you end up getting onion

45:32

jam. On a baking sheet in

45:34

the oven. That is a

45:36

full proof method.

45:37

What does the vinegar do? Wouldn't

45:39

it keep them soft? Yeah. So vinegar

45:42

is simply acetic acid, and it's

45:44

quite harsh on a lot of vegetables

45:46

and meats because most

45:49

animals and plants except

45:51

for bacteria and yeast don't synthesize vinegar.

45:54

And so when it comes to the contact with these tissues

45:56

actually break them down really well. So in this case,

45:58

we're not actually adding a lot. It's like

46:00

a couple of drops of vinegar. And

46:03

then what that does is that it brings out the flavor

46:05

of the onions, it makes them taste better.

46:07

And if you're using red onions

46:09

or red shallots that are, you know, the color becomes

46:12

even bolder because they get their color form

46:14

a pigment called anthocyanin, and

46:16

that turns bright pink at anesthetic

46:18

pH. And so you get this lovely

46:20

visual brightness as well as they cook.

46:23

Oh, cool. And it breaks

46:25

it down to serve at least a little more of the flavor.

46:27

That's so interesting.

46:28

Yeah. When you say when you say one

46:30

layer, do

46:32

you mean literally one

46:33

layer? Like, there is one piece of onion

46:35

on the pan and air above it? Or do you just

46:37

mean like flow. Not that string. Not

46:39

that string. Not that what I what I mean is

46:41

that you just lay them out in a fine thin

46:43

layer. So it's just even so they

46:45

all cook at the same rate hopefully. And

46:48

in most ovens anyway, that really doesn't happen.

46:50

Nothing cooks because your corners of the

46:52

oven are usually hotter than the, you know,

46:54

the center of the oven. So it's I move them

46:56

around little bit, redistribute them again.

46:58

So you get a good even browning.

47:01

And what comes out? Does it come out like super crispy?

47:04

Like crack crunchy crisp. Oh, yeah. It does.

47:06

So with with the onions

47:08

and shallots, what I've noticed is that

47:11

the tone crispier, you're using less

47:13

oil. Because if you're using a saucepan,

47:15

sometimes I find myself adding more and more

47:17

oil to prevent them from burning to the bottom of

47:19

the saucepan. Yeah. But if

47:21

you're using the oven,

47:24

they crisp much better because

47:27

the hot air just does much better job,

47:29

especially if you turn on the convection setting

47:31

off your oven, they'll cook even fast You just have

47:33

to watch and make sure they don't burn.

47:34

Yeah. How do you keep them getting soggy?

47:37

Like after you store them? When they're done, you let

47:39

them cool and then you're storing

47:40

them, do they stay crisp? So

47:43

that's a really important thing to do that you just

47:46

mentioned. Let them go completely before you first

47:48

put them in any kind of storage container. Be it

47:50

a zip top bag or you

47:52

know, glass container or plastic container

47:54

because if you put them hot in there,

47:56

that's the first thing that happens. have condensation from

47:59

the moisture coming out from vegetables and then,

48:01

you know, Maii makes everything soft. Another

48:03

thing that I do is I tend

48:05

to save because I'm a packer. I tend to

48:07

save those little silica gel free bags that

48:09

come with dried

48:11

seaweed and you know those food packages. I

48:14

saved those and reused them a lot.

48:16

And it's chemically not it's safe for us, which

48:18

is why they come back and I

48:21

save those bags and then put them with the onions

48:24

in the same container and that absorbs most

48:26

of the moisture. Another thing you

48:28

could do is you could freeze

48:31

them.

48:31

Oh, cool. Okay. Great. And what do you like to put

48:33

them on? Oh, So

48:35

if I'm having a pokeball, if

48:37

I'm, you know, it's just so nice to

48:39

have those crunchy chocolates on

48:41

top. If I'm doing

48:43

even for breakfast sometimes, I'll just if

48:45

I'm I'm not a big breakfast person by

48:47

nature, I'll I get through the day

48:49

just eating two hard boiled eggs in the morning, but

48:51

sometimes I need something more to go

48:53

along with its salad, blue cheese, kimchi, and

48:56

crispy shallots. If

48:58

I'm making a salad sometimes, I'll

49:00

throw crispy shallots in there. And

49:03

if I'm making a doll, that's a really another

49:05

great place to just throw in some crispy

49:07

shallots on top. It just makes

49:09

it so much more exciting. And then, of course,

49:11

with the crispy shallot. You can season

49:13

them also anywhere you want once they're done

49:15

cooking. You can do salt and pepper. You

49:18

could also add Togorashi,

49:21

whatever you want that are. You know, anything

49:23

like the Maii mixes? Yeah.

49:25

And so you could make it much more personalized

49:28

to what you like. Yeah.

49:30

I love that. Let's move to another thing

49:32

that you like to do fried lentils.

49:35

Yeah. So fried lentils are a

49:38

common snack in India, and I think

49:40

it parts other parts of South Asia too.

49:42

And I get the Maii that

49:44

are skinned or whole, and I

49:48

soaked them in water, add them dry,

49:50

and then partially cook them

49:52

where they're not falling

49:53

apart. I just want them to hold their texture, but they're

49:55

cooked still. And then what I do is, again, I

49:58

pat them dry and

49:59

you boil them water, you mean? Yeah. You want

50:01

them to be cooked all the way and then but

50:03

you just don't want them to be mushy. You

50:05

want them to retain the structure. And

50:07

then what I do is pat them dry, and

50:09

then I fry them in

50:11

hot oil in a couple of batches.

50:14

Drain the oil out and then season them

50:16

while they're hot with salt and store those.

50:18

Now, fried lentils are a

50:20

common snack like I said in Indian cooking.

50:22

But I also find that if I'm making a salad,

50:25

say if I don't have shallots on hand, I'm

50:27

craving something crunchy, you know, I can

50:29

toss that in there. I've done

50:31

this with scallops. So what I do

50:33

is a weird combination, but it works well.

50:36

You take scallops, you stir them anyhow

50:38

you want. Put them on a plate and then

50:40

put some lime juice on top with these

50:42

crispy fried lentils and it tastes so good

50:45

because you've got that combination of

50:46

crunchy, the soft creamy texture of the

50:48

scallop. It's so good. Oh, that

50:50

sounds great. I love lentils.

50:53

And to me, they have almost

50:55

like a a little bit more of a

50:58

a nutty flavor than a beanie

50:59

flavor. Would that make sense?

51:00

Yeah. Absolutely. Do

51:01

they keep that flavor when they're fried?

51:03

Or is it a different kind of flavor?

51:07

So I think the nuttiness

51:09

becomes much more pronounced and

51:12

much more fragrant. And honestly, anything

51:14

fried always tastes better. So

51:17

and that's I think it just improves

51:19

lentils and even, like, you know, a person

51:21

who doesn't eat lentils will get converted at some

51:23

point. Let's

51:25

go to one more we talked about

51:28

the oven, we talked about the fryer, and now here

51:30

comes the somewhat controversial, but

51:34

often beloved air fryer, which

51:36

is sort of basically a convection

51:38

oven. You have fried

51:40

jalapenos that you do in an air fryer.

51:43

Tell me about those. So what I do

51:45

is I cut the jalapenos up. It

51:47

usually interests slices

51:51

and I don't de stem them. I keep the

51:53

seeds on. And then what I do is I toss them

51:55

in a little bit of salt

51:58

just to get some of the water out through osmosis.

52:00

And then I -- Okay. -- rinse quickly

52:02

with cold running tap water and pat them dry.

52:05

And then I put them in

52:07

buttermilk and season the

52:09

buttermilk. With a little bit of semolina or

52:12

all purpose flour and then

52:14

stick them into the convection

52:16

oven and then cook them and, oh,

52:18

add a few tablespoons of oil to the

52:20

Camelina because with an air fryer, you still need

52:23

oil you're just using less. Otherwise,

52:25

it'll taste too bitter. And put

52:27

that in the air fryer and then let it

52:29

sit there until it turns golden brown and crispy,

52:32

and then that's a really great way

52:34

again of having some like crunchy

52:36

add on for your food in the pantry. Oh,

52:39

cool. Wait. So you after

52:41

you sliced and salted and

52:43

rinsed the jalapenos, you put them in

52:45

buttermilk? And then do you scoop them out of buttermilk?

52:48

With them

52:49

long. Yeah. With I just picked them up. You don't want

52:51

to miss you with breading them. Okay.

52:53

Yeah. Yeah. And then I moved you can also

52:55

use Japanese breadcrumbs, the Panko

52:57

breadcrumbs. Those work really well. Those are actually

52:59

probably one of the crunchy textures you'll find

53:02

on that. But and again, that's

53:04

something that you can also season the way

53:06

you want to individualize it or personalize

53:08

it rather for your taste. You

53:10

can use a bunch of different seasonings and

53:14

it's just such a nice thing

53:16

to have at

53:16

home. That's cool. I can imagine

53:18

that. It's crispy. It's a little bit

53:20

spicy and just throw that

53:22

on top of something. Yeah. Well,

53:25

thanks so much, Nick. These are great ideas, and

53:27

I really can't wait to go fry some

53:29

lentils. Yeah,

53:29

let me know how that works out for you. Nick

53:33

Sharma is the award winning author of Season

53:35

and the Flavor equation. You can find

53:37

his recipe for chicken congee, topped

53:40

with crispy shallots at splendidtable dot

53:42

org. And that is our

53:44

show for the

53:45

week. Thank you for listening, and go

53:47

cook something great for you. We'll talk to you next

53:49

week.

53:52

APM Studios are run by Chandra Cavati,

53:54

Alex Schaffert, and Joanne Griffin. That Perlman

53:57

is our executive producer, and this blended table

53:59

was created by Linamarzet of Casper

54:01

and Sally Swift. It's made every week

54:03

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54:05

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54:09

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and Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your downloads.

54:14

Be sure to leave us a review, especially if you

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like us. I'm Brad Sland. This

54:18

is APM Studio.

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