0:03

I'm Francis Lam and this is the Splendid Table

0:06

from APM. You

0:13

know, I was watching football the other

0:15

week and it was negative 5 degrees in Kansas

0:17

City. It was

0:19

minus 22 in Montana and

0:21

it snowed in

0:24

Dallas. Ladies and gentlemen, it

0:28

is time for soup. And

0:30

today we have some truly

0:32

delicious and iconic soups for

0:34

you. The star chef

0:36

Gregory Gordet joins us later to

0:38

talk about his beloved soup jamun,

0:40

the pumpkin and meat soup that

0:42

represents Haitian independence. Jing

0:44

Gao, inventor of the wildly delicious chili

0:47

crisp called Fly by Jing, comes by

0:49

to talk about Chinese hot pot. And

0:53

first, we have Mariana Velasquez,

0:55

food stylist extraordinaire. You

0:58

know, she is usually behind the scenes

1:00

in books. She has made the recipes

1:02

look gorgeous and who knows how many

1:05

of your favorite cookbooks. But

1:07

one day she stepped into the

1:09

author's chair herself when she realized that she

1:12

really just couldn't go any longer without

1:14

singing the beautiful song of her native

1:16

Columbia's food for all to hear. The

1:19

result was her debut cookbook, Columbiana,

1:21

and she joins us to talk

1:24

about the one pot feast called

1:26

Sancocho. So

1:29

hola, Mariana. So nice to have you. Hola,

1:31

hola. Thank you for having me. Your

1:34

book is so gorgeous and I've never wanted to go

1:36

to Columbia more. I'm sure Erika, our producer, is a

1:38

little bit horrified to hear that. She's like, I've been

1:40

talking to you about Columbia for years. But

1:43

it really is so beautiful. And something that

1:45

really struck me, not just in the photos,

1:48

but that you wrote about was Columbia

1:51

is the second most

1:53

biodiverse country on earth based on

1:56

how many different ecosystems there are.

2:00

And of course, I

2:02

truly cannot. And

2:05

of course, if there are these different ecosystems, or different

2:07

climates, there are different fruits and

2:09

vegetables, and obviously that affects the cuisine.

2:11

But what does that really mean?

2:13

Give us an illustration of that

2:15

sort of diversity. So

2:19

imagine you are sitting in

2:21

Bogota, which is 9,000 feet

2:26

up in a valley in the Andes, in

2:28

the central branch of the Andes. And

2:31

you drive 45 minutes

2:35

outside the city. You go down

2:38

into a completely

2:41

different climate, and

2:43

you encounter very different weather,

2:45

different food. People are

2:47

like, it's like 80 degrees, while in

2:49

Bogota was 56, and it's only

2:52

45 minutes. Oh, wow. So

2:54

you can really change seasons in a short

2:56

drive. And that also

2:58

means that every place

3:00

has its own identity. It's

3:02

almost like it's many, many Colombians. It's

3:08

so regional. Yeah. What's

3:11

that look that has 9,000 feet up? It's

3:14

very high up. So

3:16

like Denver, to put that in US terms,

3:19

Denver, famously, is the mile-high city. A mile is

3:22

5,000 feet. It's

3:24

almost twice as high. So you're talking about that

3:26

kind of elevation. And like you said, they're 45

3:28

minutes away. It can be

3:31

30 degrees hotter. And then

3:33

let alone when you go to the coast,

3:35

it's tropical. There's coconuts. No,

3:38

exactly. Incredible. When

3:41

there's these great drives, to really understand

3:43

the food of Colombia, you have to

3:45

travel by car. When you

3:47

go to the main cities by plane, you

3:50

miss all the flavor and all the texture

3:52

of the small towns. And

3:55

there are things that

3:57

don't leave their towns. recipes

4:00

or pastries or fruit juices

4:03

or preparations that are so Innate

4:06

to a place that if

4:09

you've never been there even as a colombian, you may

4:11

not know about it Hmm. What's

4:13

one that you can think of right now? So

4:15

for instance when I was doing the research for

4:17

colombiana, I traveled quite a bit around the country

4:20

And I went to this one town in the

4:23

state of boyaka And

4:25

I found that they had barley flour

4:27

like toasted barley flour and they made

4:29

all these cookies with it I

4:31

had never seen that you know, I had never

4:34

seen that anywhere else in colombia. I had never

4:36

seen the use Of

4:38

a different type of flour like this

4:41

And so then I developed a recipe for these

4:43

cookies But for instance that you know, and i'm

4:45

in the world of food. I research all the

4:47

time and I kept getting

4:49

surprised by hearing

4:52

the stories of Of

4:56

the food that doesn't travel, you know, I mean in

4:58

a way because of colombia's Sadly

5:02

war situation that we've had for the

5:04

last 50 years Its

5:09

places have stayed very Authentic

5:14

right because it's either dangerous to travel there or

5:16

was hard

5:18

to get to hard to leave So a lot

5:21

of the culture was really preserved which I guess is

5:23

the upside of that whole thing Yeah,

5:26

it's it's it's super interesting Well

5:30

through all of this regionality and this diversity you also

5:32

write that there are You know

5:35

three foods that kind of unite colombian cuisine which

5:38

are these like griddled corn meal cakes empanadas,

5:41

which you know many of us know and

5:44

Sancocho And that's really

5:46

what i'm excited to talk to you about today First

5:49

what is Sancocho

5:53

So sancocho is essentially a soup

5:57

That is prepared by cooking in a very

5:59

long time large pots with

6:02

water, different kinds

6:05

of meats, usually rough cuts like short

6:08

ribs or brisket,

6:10

cuts of meat that can take

6:12

and withstand long cooking alongside

6:15

potatoes, yuca, plantains, different kinds

6:17

of vegetables that are available

6:19

in the region. And

6:22

all of that broth is flavored

6:25

by agiso, which is

6:27

the backbone of Colombia's cuisine.

6:29

And it's prepared with rice

6:31

tomatoes, scallions, onions, garlic and

6:34

achiote. Achiote, like, so

6:36

like in a color, what is achiote actually?

6:38

It's a seed, right? Yeah, achiote

6:41

is a seed and it's actually,

6:43

it comes in this really beautiful

6:45

flower that's quite prickly and red

6:47

and it grows

6:49

in small bushes and I mean

6:51

they really sprawl all around the

6:53

tropical region of the country. So

6:57

they're quite ornamental as well, you know, they're just beautiful

6:59

as well. Yeah, it gives it that like

7:02

sort of brick red color, that beautiful. Exactly.

7:06

And it does add a layer of

7:08

flavor, you know, it adds a dimension

7:10

of flavor that's quite specific. It's almost,

7:12

it's almost really

7:15

earthy. Yeah. So

7:18

imagine these big pots of water

7:21

that it's sometimes done on an

7:23

open fire, like cooked on

7:25

hot coals or wood. It

7:29

cooks all morning and then when

7:31

it's time to serve it, you take out all

7:34

the ingredients, separate them into

7:36

into sections, you take out all the

7:38

meats, you take out all the starches and

7:40

then you allow people to either ladle

7:44

broth into a bowl and then they can

7:46

add everything back in. But

7:48

the idea is that you can eat yours encochos as

7:50

you wish, you know, it's really, I think

7:54

I like to say that it's a way to

7:56

really reveal your personalities, how you eat yours

7:58

encochos. So

8:01

meaning you can reassemble a bowl

8:04

of soup with all these different ingredients, or

8:07

you can put it on a plate and eat it

8:09

as if it was a main core style of food

8:11

and you have a little broth on the side for

8:13

sipping. Exactly. And then

8:15

are there garnishes and toppings

8:17

and sauces? So it's

8:20

usually served with white rice, avocado,

8:23

and then there's the sauce

8:26

that is ever present, it's called dahi. I

8:28

imagine it's like a very tangy

8:31

salsa verde made with scallion cilantro

8:33

and a type of chili.

8:36

So people choose how hot they want it. But

8:38

an aji is also a matter

8:41

of pride. People take a lot of pride

8:43

in their aji preparation and aji recipe. And

8:46

you will find a jar, like a mason jar or

8:48

an old mermalade jar repurposed with

8:51

aji in every household. Very interesting. And you

8:53

know, it's the

8:55

sauce that accompanies everything. What's

8:57

your address to Californians? He's

9:00

the Californian, I would say. And

9:02

is it just like those herbs minced with

9:04

the chili or is there like a vinegar

9:06

or oil? There's a vinegar, a little

9:09

bit of water, and sometimes a dash of sugar,

9:12

just to kind of like balance it out.

9:14

No oil. Okay, okay. Oh,

9:16

interesting. So it is meant to be like

9:18

a little tart, a little fresh, herbal, hot.

9:21

Does aji mean like chili? Because I know

9:24

there are like different chilies with like aji

9:26

amarillo and things like that. Okay, cool. So

9:28

it should be hot. It should be a

9:30

little spicy. It should be. And

9:32

it is really the only spicy food,

9:35

like the only spice component that we

9:37

have in our cuisine, like throughout all

9:39

the regions. Food

9:42

isn't really spicy. But then the aji is

9:44

like as much as you want to add. Yeah,

9:46

sure, sure, sure. You also

9:48

write their different versions of sancocho

9:50

and that vary as much as

9:52

a fish version with coconut milk,

9:54

which sounds so delicious, or

9:57

one like you just described with lots of different cuts of

9:59

meat. different vegetables, different starchy

10:01

vegetables. So what's like the unifying

10:03

factor? What makes a sancocho a

10:05

sancocho? I

10:09

think the

10:11

preparation of cooking all

10:13

of these elements in a big pot,

10:16

right? It's really, it's the

10:19

broth element, the components, even

10:22

if the ingredients vary from region to region,

10:26

what's unifying I think is the

10:28

generosity and the amplitude of the

10:30

meal. It's really like the ceremony

10:32

around this. So and it's

10:35

very common for people to invite you to

10:37

a sancocho. They tell you the menu, right?

10:39

Like we invite people for lunch, that's

10:42

one thing. To invite someone for a sancocho is

10:44

a whole other ritual. Okay, okay, okay. Yeah,

10:46

yeah, yeah. It's like, oh, it's not just like

10:48

a common for dinner, it's like a common for

10:51

barbecue. Exactly, yeah. It's its own kind of party.

10:56

Yeah, I know and it's

10:59

definitely a kind of meal that is a party,

11:01

you know, you cannot make sancocho for two. I

11:03

mean, I guess you could, but I would be just ridiculous.

11:10

We'll have more proper, sensual details

11:13

from Mariana Velasquez, author of Columbiana,

11:15

a rediscovery of recipes to rituals

11:17

in the soul of Columbia. I'm

11:19

BrantheSlam and this is the Splendid

11:21

Table from APM. In 2010, the

11:24

largest oil

11:26

spill in American

11:29

history captivated the public's attention. Authorities

11:32

told the story of a response

11:34

effort that prevented a worst-case scenario,

11:37

but if you ask some people

11:39

who lived through the spill, they'll

11:41

tell you a more complicated story.

11:43

They weren't attending to the workers.

11:46

I was bleeding from everywhere. We

11:48

were all live too. From Western

11:50

Sound and APM Studios comes a

11:52

new investigative podcast, Ripple, available

11:55

now. I'm

11:58

BrantheSlam and this is the Splendid Table. Show for curious

12:00

coconut eater. We're talking about

12:03

some of Earth's most beloved soups this

12:05

week. So let's get back

12:07

into Sancocho with Mariana Velasquez, author

12:09

of Columbiana. Well,

12:13

I love how you talk about Sancocho

12:15

as a form of generosity, right? It's

12:17

a gathering. But usually, when

12:20

we have those kinds of things in cultures, there's also

12:23

the flip side of it, which is, arguments?

12:26

Yeah. Who makes the best

12:29

one? What's the right way to make

12:31

one? And when we were talking earlier,

12:33

you said something like, oh, your mother

12:35

and your brother are always fighting about

12:37

their respective Sancochos. What is the argument

12:39

between them? So

12:43

imagine this. My mother likes to

12:45

cook all the meats first. OK.

12:51

Strain the broth. Once the meat

12:53

is cooked, she likes to strain the broth, let it cool

12:55

a little so she can skim the

12:57

fat. And then she

12:59

cooks, she adds the gisso to that water,

13:01

it has that now brothy, very flavored

13:03

water. And

13:06

she cooks the vegetables. So

13:08

she separates the process because she

13:10

wants a really clean tasting broth. Oh,

13:13

interesting. My brother is like, oh my

13:15

god, that's so converse from your like, and

13:17

imagine this is like a six gallon pot,

13:19

right? Like it's not an easy strain. It's

13:21

something that's quite laborious. And

13:24

so my brother is like, no. I

13:26

mean, that is so complicated. You're overcomplicating

13:29

it. So he makes it everything

13:31

at once. He makes the gisso in

13:33

the pot, adds the meats, covers it

13:35

with water, and then he starts adding

13:37

the vegetables section by section because you

13:40

also have to paste

13:42

it correctly. You cannot add all

13:44

the vegetables at once. Yeah, the

13:46

potatoes first. Otherwise the potatoes will fall apart. No,

13:48

by the time everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so

13:50

you added according to the time that they'll

13:52

need cooking so that they hold their shape.

13:56

So yeah, my brother's broth, it's almost,

13:58

you know, it's more chunky. It's

14:00

not as clear. So there's

14:02

always a debate. And I step, you know, I take

14:05

some steps back because I don't want to get involved.

14:07

Yeah. I want to ask you which

14:09

one you prefer. We don't need to start that. Oh, no, please don't

14:11

ask you that. Okay, but let's get

14:13

to how you make it. Walk us through it. What

14:16

goes into yours? Okay,

14:19

so I usually make

14:21

mine with pork ribs, brisket,

14:25

and pork shoulder.

14:29

I do the two meats. So

14:32

I make a really flavorful gisso. I

14:34

saute my scallions, onions, then I add

14:37

tomatoes that are very, very ripe. And

14:40

I make it to a point. I

14:43

do a little bit of olive oil. And

14:47

then I add a cote and garlic. So

14:49

I make these gisso to be very jammy.

14:51

I want it to be super flavorful, almost

14:54

a bit caramelized because that's the base

14:56

of the soup. That's what's

14:58

in it. You really cook that down. I

15:01

love cooking tomatoes that way. It's

15:05

one thing to get their bright fresh sweet flavor. It's

15:08

another thing when you cook them down. So you say,

15:10

boy, they're jammy. And

15:13

that flavor gets so umami too.

15:16

Yeah, it really does. And

15:19

then I cover that with water

15:21

and then add my meats. Add

15:24

salt, a couple branches of cilantro, you

15:26

know, with stems and all. And

15:30

then I let that cook. And if

15:32

I can do it over an open fire, it's amazing.

15:35

You know what I mean? I don't always have that

15:37

possibility, but I just cook it

15:39

until the meat is tender, at least a few hours.

15:42

And then I start adding my

15:45

plantains, the corn, the

15:47

yuca, and then the potatoes last.

15:51

And the way I love to serve it is I

15:53

take all of the starches out. You

15:55

know, I sort of fish them out, take out

15:57

the meats, cut them up, and then serve everything

15:59

in. ladders and

16:01

with white rice, avocado, and aji.

16:05

And that sounds great. And

16:08

then it's time to party. It's

16:10

time to party, exactly. And my grandmother used to

16:12

say, the San Cucho

16:14

makes itself, El San Cucho Sace

16:16

Solo. And in

16:19

a way it does, right? But then you

16:21

also have to peel the potatoes, peel the

16:23

plant. It doesn't really make itself. But

16:26

to her, it was like the process was,

16:30

it just, you know, everything happens in

16:32

this one big pot and it just

16:34

slowly cooks and the flavors develop and,

16:37

and it's a meal that feeds many. And

16:40

it's yeah, it's just abundant,

16:43

but it's also comforting. And

16:46

across the board, it's

16:48

one of those dishes that is really

16:51

appreciated. You know, people really

16:53

love to have San Cucho

16:55

because of what it means, you know, it's

16:58

gathering and yeah,

17:00

a celebration. I love that.

17:02

Well, also, let me ask you one last

17:04

question, because I know music is so important

17:06

in Colombian culture. What are you playing? What's

17:08

the music when we come over for a San Cucho?

17:12

What's the music? I mean, I have a playlist

17:16

that I have on Spotify, actually, it's called

17:18

Pataco Cool. And it's a

17:21

combination of old boleros, old tangos,

17:23

and my grandfather used to listen

17:25

to mixing with some

17:27

contemporary Latin American

17:29

musicians like Monsieur Periné

17:31

or South

17:36

Cathedral. And yeah, it's a

17:38

combination of new and old. I think that that's

17:40

the magic. I love it. All

17:43

right, Mariana, thank you so much for this. And I can't

17:46

wait to come to your house for a San Cucho sometime.

17:48

Yes, please. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for

17:51

having me. Vaniarum

17:53

Balafquez is the author of Columbiana,

17:55

a rediscovery of recipes and rituals

17:58

from the soul of Colombia. You'll

18:01

find her recipe for Ssangkojo at

18:03

splendidtable.org. Gregory

18:12

Gourdet is a chef that I've admired for

18:14

a really long time. Many

18:16

many years ago I knew his restaurant

18:18

in Portland, Oregon, where he was famous

18:20

for Asian inspired cuisine. But

18:23

he decided a few years ago to focus

18:25

instead on telling the story of the Haitian

18:27

cuisine that he grew up with. Haiti

18:30

is unfortunately known to most Americans

18:33

really only through tragedy, like we hear about

18:35

it when it's in the news or earthquakes

18:37

or violence. But Gregory is

18:40

committed to sharing the beauty and

18:42

strength and resilience of the culture

18:45

of the only country where

18:47

enslaved Africans actually overthrew their

18:49

European masters. And

18:51

that's where Soup Jamu comes in. But I'll

18:53

let him tell that story. The

18:56

new restaurant Kahn has won the James Beard Award

18:58

and just about every other award under the sun.

19:01

And it is great to have you, chef. Hey,

19:04

Francis, thanks for having me, my goodness. No,

19:07

we're super excited. Super super excited. Well, I mean,

19:09

I'm glad you can make time for us because

19:13

you're very busy now. But

19:15

everything you're doing at the restaurant Kahn,

19:17

you walk out of like every award

19:20

ceremony with new hardware around your neck. I

19:23

think your schedule of just receiving awards

19:25

is probably pretty packed. We

19:28

were very proud of last year. I will say that

19:30

it took a lot of work and we were very

19:32

happy as a team. You should

19:34

be. And I love it, not just because your

19:37

food is so delicious, but

19:40

because, you know, the work

19:42

you're doing showcasing Haitian cuisine to so

19:45

many people who've never known anything about

19:47

Haiti in general or its culture. And,

19:51

you know, that obviously brings us to soup Joumou, which

19:54

is really an important dish

19:56

in the history and the culture. First

19:59

of all, how do you. describe this soup? Oh,

20:01

well, soup jumu is definitely, you

20:03

know, a very, very

20:05

important dish, a cultural

20:08

moment for us. It's actually a World

20:10

Heritage food voted

20:13

by and honored by UNESCO a couple of years ago.

20:15

So yeah,

20:17

but yeah, I mean, at the

20:19

core, it's a very savory, rude

20:22

vegetable dumpling and squash soup. Usually

20:24

it's served with a type of protein,

20:26

it can be made vegan. And

20:29

there's a starchy element to it,

20:31

which I believe traditionally

20:33

it's this kind of rustic

20:36

dumpling made with flour and

20:38

water to more kind of

20:40

contemporary versions, which

20:42

feature either spaghetti or ziti or

20:44

both. But

20:47

it's like a pumpkin soup or a squash

20:49

soup. Yeah. So there's actually a Caribbean pumpkin.

20:51

And I do believe the name is Caribbean

20:53

pumpkin, which is actually hard to source

20:55

in Oregon. But one of our farmers actually grew it a

20:58

couple of years ago. So that was really cool. Obviously

21:00

not enough for us to sustain it

21:03

on the menu for as long as we serve

21:05

soup jumu, but it's a very specific squash and

21:08

something that my mom would purchase

21:11

in pieces at Kirby markets

21:13

throughout Queens, actually prepared

21:16

it when we were growing up. Me

21:18

as a professional chef living

21:20

on the West Coast, I have

21:22

used kabocha and butternut squash

21:24

to kind of mimic that flavor. And

21:27

I think we're all in this country

21:30

used to like a creamy squash soup,

21:32

but I find subjumu very, very interesting

21:34

because it adds so much to that.

21:37

We're used to like a silky squash

21:39

puree, maybe there's like a

21:41

sweet element of pickled apple element, kind

21:43

of like traditional modern dining, but subjumu

21:46

goes really in the opposite direction. It's

21:48

spicy, it's got scotch bonnet and we

21:50

use a piece which is Haitian green

21:52

seasoning, you know, it has like a

21:54

little bit of stew meat and then

21:56

just this beautiful array of root vegetables

21:59

from rutabaga potatoes. those beautiful

22:02

squash and green plantains we use,

22:04

and then those dumplings. So it's

22:07

really, really rich, savory filling, and

22:09

absolutely comforting. That's awesome. So

22:11

I definitely want to talk about the way you make it in

22:13

the restaurant later on. Because I know you do it in a

22:15

bit of a unique way that's not

22:18

entirely typical or traditional. But

22:20

let's talk about the traditional version. Or even

22:22

just tell me how you had it

22:25

in your home growing up. When would you have it?

22:27

Yeah. I remember these beautiful

22:29

big pieces of the Caribbean squash that

22:31

would come from the market and

22:33

my mom would simmer the whole piece of squash

22:35

in water. We didn't

22:37

actually eat a lot of red meat in my family.

22:40

So oftentimes it was chicken, but

22:43

you know, you would simmer the meat and

22:45

you simmer the squash. When the squash was tender,

22:48

you would take it out of the broth, you

22:50

would take off the peel, you would puree with

22:52

some of the water and then pour it back

22:54

into the pot. After

22:56

which we would add the turnips,

22:58

the potatoes, the carrots, the squash,

23:01

let everything simmer and then

23:03

you add your spaghetti and your ziti,

23:06

which is the starchy element

23:08

that my family always added. And

23:11

Soubjoumou, you know, going into the

23:13

history of it is always served traditionally on New

23:15

Year's Day. You know, after 13

23:17

years of revolution in 1804, Haiti

23:19

won their independence from France and

23:22

we celebrated by eating Soubjoumou. So

23:24

New Year's Day is a huge

23:26

day. We cleaned the house from

23:28

top to bottom. So

23:30

you know, I have this really vivid

23:32

memory of, you know, as my mom

23:34

is finishing vacuuming the house, she's finishing

23:36

wiping the counters, you know, the pot

23:38

of Soubjoumou is simmering away as

23:41

we all, you know, finish getting dressed and getting

23:43

ready to hit the dinner table. This

23:46

is always usually early afternoon as

23:48

well. I love that. I

23:50

love to hear those like very like wholesome

23:54

sort of like just like a domestic memory of

23:56

it like the cleaning of the house and you

23:58

guys putting on your clothes and. When we

24:00

were talking the other day, you said, you

24:02

know, you didn't know the history of the dish. It

24:04

was just your tradition to eat it. And

24:07

that later on, you learn the history

24:09

and how it's not

24:11

just a soup symbolizing the revolution, right?

24:13

And Canadian depends, but like specifically, like

24:16

Haiti was the first, really

24:19

the first country that was formed from

24:21

a slave revolution, where enslaved

24:24

people were like over through not

24:26

just the colonial power,

24:28

but like the flavor. And

24:31

tell us about like that aspect of the story

24:34

of the soup. Yeah, I mean, so

24:36

this history says that when we were enslaved

24:38

by the French, we weren't allowed to eat

24:40

soup shmoo, even though, you know,

24:43

as slaves and as the cooks, we did

24:45

have to prepare soup shmoo. So with the

24:47

luxe ingredients, you know, the meat that

24:50

got stewed, the squash, the

24:52

turnips, all those beautiful root

24:54

vegetables, you know, we weren't

24:56

allowed to have such luxurious food. So

24:59

after the 13 years

25:01

of revolution, and you know, the death and

25:04

the fighting and, you know, the fight for

25:06

independence, when we won that independence,

25:09

one of the first things we did was reclaim

25:11

soup shmoo. And we celebrated by eating that soup

25:13

on New Year's Day. Because again,

25:15

you know, that's the day we won our independence in

25:17

1804, January 1st. So that is a true

25:20

story of soup

25:23

shmoo. And, you know,

25:25

it's interesting because, you know, I read

25:28

other books, and I talked to other Caribbean

25:31

and Caribbean American chefs. And again, you

25:33

know, like, as they trace back their

25:35

history, and as they look back on

25:37

the foods and dishes that were important,

25:39

that really kind of

25:42

formed so many of the memories that,

25:45

you know, inform their work, either, you

25:47

know, they cook at a restaurant or

25:49

they're writing cookbooks. But, you

25:51

know, I think for a lot of us, for

25:54

maybe our parents and our grandparents,

25:57

you know, the soup becomes the

25:59

story. You know, because just

26:01

to serve soup jumu in

26:03

Queens is an act of

26:05

history, you know, is an act of keeping

26:08

your culture alive. You know, that storytelling, you

26:10

know, the act of my mother serving soup

26:12

jumu to my sister and I who were

26:14

born in this country, you know, that creates

26:16

so much memory and

26:18

oftentimes, you know, the true history of the

26:21

dish maybe isn't as important

26:23

in the moment because we are creating our

26:25

own history, you know? So,

26:28

you know, now we get to share the story of soup

26:30

jumu with hundreds and thousands of

26:32

guests, you know, who have had the

26:34

soup. It's something that comes on our menu every year. Um,

26:37

and it's incredible, you know, it's, it's one of my

26:39

favorite things to run to guests, you

26:41

know, there's quite a bit of storytelling at the restaurant

26:43

and all our servers and runners know the exact story

26:45

of soup jumu and we get to share that history

26:48

as painful and as beautiful as it is with all

26:50

our guests. Yeah. I love

26:52

that. So let's get to the

26:54

preparation of it. I love how you described how your mother

26:56

would make it, but you make it a little bit differently.

26:59

Indeed. Um, so the first

27:01

thing you said is you marinate chicken

27:03

thighs in a piece. So

27:05

tell us about a piece and it's, it's not

27:07

EPIS. Yes. So

27:10

a piece is an all purpose,

27:12

a Haitian green seasoning. Uh, there's,

27:14

you know, different variations of green seasonings

27:17

throughout the Caribbean and as well in

27:19

the South. Uh, but

27:21

a piece is this really, really beautiful

27:23

aromatic combination of parsley cilantro

27:25

thyme lime juice, scotch bonnet,

27:28

a little bit of clove,

27:30

black pepper, onions. So,

27:32

you know, when we were brought over,

27:35

uh, you know,

27:37

after eating delicious foods in, in,

27:39

in West Africa, uh, we

27:42

were, you know, not allowed to eat really

27:45

delicious things and we were really surprised at

27:47

how bland, you know, the food was the

27:50

food of our colonizers were. So with

27:53

the abundance of herbs and spices, you

27:56

know, that were in Haiti and throughout

27:58

the Caribbean, we. We

28:00

started making these seasonings and marinades

28:02

to flavor our food. So

28:04

that is the story of a piece in green

28:07

seasoning. So it's

28:09

extremely important in Haitian cuisine. We use it to

28:12

flavor so many things. You know, it's used

28:14

to marinate meat. We

28:17

marinate pretty much everything at the restaurant. That's

28:19

a heavy protein with it overnight. We

28:22

finish soup jumu with it. I'm

28:25

very liberal with it. I've used it in

28:27

tzau dressings, and we've whipped it into butter

28:30

to serve with our plants and buns. But

28:34

at the core, every Haitian household has a

28:36

jar of a piece in the fridge. It

28:39

lasts quite a while, and you can just

28:42

add a spoonful or two to anything to

28:44

give it that Haitian oomph and

28:46

that really beautiful, dynamic flavor that it offers to

28:49

the foods. And to

28:51

make it, you just took all those ingredients.

28:53

You mentioned the herbs, the clove, the garlic.

28:55

Oh, yeah. You just whip it in a

28:57

blender, right? Yeah, you just whip it in a blender, and

28:59

you can whip it as smooth as you like. You can

29:01

keep it a little bit of chunky, maybe like pestle consistency.

29:04

But yeah, you literally just throw everything in a blender

29:06

with a little bit of vinegar and lime juice, all

29:09

those aromatics. And you can literally

29:11

add it to anything from rice to

29:14

marinating foods. It's extremely

29:16

versatile indeed. Right on. So

29:18

okay, now your chicken's marinated. And

29:20

then... Yeah, so we marinate the chicken. We

29:22

braise it in chicken stock separately. We

29:25

pre-peel the squash. We simmer

29:27

it with water and chicken stock and a

29:29

piece, onions, garlic, and a little bit more

29:32

habanero in little scotch bonnets. And

29:34

we simmer that, puree it until it's nice

29:37

and smooth. We blanch

29:39

on the side or actually

29:41

steam green plantains, potato, green

29:43

cabbage, and rutabaga. And

29:46

on the pickup, when it's time to go, the order

29:49

comes in. We gently reheat

29:51

the broth. We simmer

29:53

the chicken to get it nice and

29:55

tender again. We add our vegetables. And

29:58

then in lieu of the... flour dumplings,

30:00

we have created a one

30:02

based on potato. So kind of

30:05

mimicking the potato in soup, they

30:07

have a really chewy, cool texture to them.

30:10

And everything we do at the restaurant is

30:12

actually gluten free. So it falls in line

30:14

with kind of our dietary distinctions

30:16

and of being a very accessible restaurant

30:18

for people with all diets. Yeah.

30:21

You know, I love to hear that. And I love the

30:23

idea of a potato dumpling. I'm

30:25

actually intrigued by spaghetti and

30:28

ziti are used in the home version.

30:31

Indeed. You know, there's actually quite a few,

30:33

well, not a few, but there's a couple

30:35

of spaghetti dishes in Haiti. And, you

30:38

know, so many times we

30:41

as Americans have tried to help Haiti. And,

30:43

you know, we've sent ingredients and

30:45

goods over, we've sent rice over, we've

30:47

sent pasta over. Also, the

30:51

diaspora has spread, you know, around the world.

30:53

And, you know, we've come to

30:55

America and we've eaten boxed pasta. So it's

30:57

one of those things that we kind

31:00

of, again, took to our own. And

31:03

there is a Haitian spaghetti dish

31:05

that we have for breakfast. It's literally

31:08

spaghetti, onions, a little bit

31:10

of an arrow, some hippies and hot dogs. And

31:12

that is literally something that I grew up eating

31:14

as well. That actually sounds so good. It

31:17

is good. We're actually putting it on the menu in

31:20

a couple of weeks. And we did our handmade

31:22

pasta. We work with Olympia Provisions, local

31:24

leads making AP sausage. So we're doing

31:26

our version of it. But

31:29

again, you know, traditionally

31:31

the flour dumplings were in

31:33

subjumu. But, you know, as we have these

31:36

resources that are brought to the country, we

31:39

claim those as well. And thus,

31:41

you know, spaghetti and beauty became

31:43

fixtures in subjumu as well. We'll

31:47

be back with more from Gregory Gourdé in just a

31:49

minute. Then we're talking to

31:51

Chili Sauce entrepreneur Jing Gao about

31:53

Sichuan hot dogs. I'm Francis

31:56

Lam, and this is The Slended Table from

31:58

APM. In

32:01

2010, the largest oil spill

32:03

in American history captivated the

32:05

public's attention. Authorities

32:07

told the story of a response effort

32:09

that prevented a worst-case scenario. But

32:12

if you ask some people who

32:14

lived through the spill, they'll tell

32:16

you a more complicated story. They

32:18

weren't attending to the workers. I

32:20

was bleeding from everywhere. We were

32:22

all lied to. From Western Sound

32:25

and APM Studios comes a new

32:27

investigative podcast, Ripple. Available

32:29

now. I'm

32:32

Francis Lamb and this is the

32:34

show for Curious Cooks and Eaters.

32:36

Today, we're all about the soups that

32:38

will give you life this winter. We're

32:41

talking right now with Chef Gregory Gourdé

32:43

about Haiti's soup and meal. Come

32:45

back to it with him. Okay,

32:48

so you are, you know,

32:50

you have this beautiful restaurant. It's

32:53

critically acclaimed. You've gotten a lot of press. Sure

32:56

you have guests, you know, not just from Portland,

32:58

you know, where you are, but people who are

33:00

coming in from, you know, traveling

33:02

into the city and coming to come

33:05

see the restaurant. And so I

33:07

know you take seriously this idea that, you know, you

33:09

are, you know, a sort of

33:12

ambassador for Haitian cuisine. And

33:16

so I guess the question is, but

33:19

now you make soup and meal in this very different way than

33:21

say your mom made it. You make it in this, you

33:24

know, it's a little more technical, you know,

33:26

you're breaking apart the different steps, you're doing

33:29

it a little bit more of

33:32

a pardon the

33:34

word, a chefy way for sharing the chicken. So

33:38

I guess the question I have is you're

33:40

both representing Haitian cuisine and you're

33:42

also like modifying it. So

33:45

for you, how do you

33:48

figure out like

33:51

what are there lines you wouldn't cross or do

33:53

you feel like, hey, I can, I should be

33:55

able to do whatever I want because this is

33:57

my cuisine. How do you think about that? And

34:00

I thought about this quite a bit, you

34:02

know, when developing con and for

34:04

me, you know, I didn't grow

34:06

up cooking Haitian food. I actually

34:08

didn't grow up cooking, you know, I grew

34:10

up eating and watching my mom and enjoying

34:12

and she was

34:15

a very good mother in the sense that

34:17

she always fed us and had dinner on

34:19

the table and if not her,

34:21

maybe our aunts and you know, my

34:23

grandmother. So I have

34:25

all these vivid memories of eating, but

34:28

not cooking as much. And you know, like I always call myself

34:30

a little bloomer and start cooking till I was in my twenties.

34:33

So you know, just as I learned how to

34:35

make French food and Spanish food at the restaurants

34:37

and you know, Asian cuisines

34:39

and honoring all those cuisines, I

34:42

learned how to make Haitian food a little bit later in

34:44

life and the Haitian food is like kind of like the

34:47

last phase I started digging into about maybe about

34:49

six, seven years ago. You

34:52

know, I was like, hey, I'm spending all this time

34:54

learning about all these different cultures and I'm not spending

34:56

enough time learning about my own. So I started working

34:58

on all the family recipes with my mom. You know,

35:00

anytime we were together, home for

35:02

the holidays, I'd be like, mom, teach me how to make this,

35:04

teach me how to make sauce bar, teach me how to make

35:06

acarach, show me how you do it. And

35:08

then I started making them for my family. But

35:11

you know, when I opened Khan, I knew that

35:13

because Haitian cuisine is so underserved in

35:15

this country, it was extremely important that

35:17

we started from a place of respect

35:19

and heritage. So

35:22

we have a few

35:24

dishes on the menu, which we

35:26

consider traditional. And

35:29

you know, while there might be some

35:31

flourishes, you know, like the

35:33

soup shimu preparation is probably a little

35:35

more technical than my mother would serve

35:37

it. But at the core, the

35:39

true ingredients of soup shimu are in there and

35:41

nothing else is in there. You

35:44

know, so you know, like it's like

35:46

if we were given my

35:48

mom and me were given the same ingredients

35:51

to make soup shimu, you know, my

35:53

version would be a little bit different than hers. But

35:56

at the core, we're both using the same ingredients.

35:58

So I think that's extremely important. And

36:00

you know, because you don't want people to

36:02

walk away from the experience, not really

36:05

understanding what the true authentic dish

36:07

is. And that was really important for me. And

36:10

when we discussed the food with our guests,

36:12

we're super clear about this is a traditional

36:14

dish. Whereas some other

36:16

dishes on the menu are more

36:19

seasonally or locally inspired, honoring in

36:21

Oregon and our seasons and some

36:23

other dishes inspired by West Africa,

36:25

honoring the enslaved that were taken

36:27

and the pan-Caribbean as well,

36:29

where Haiti lies. I

36:31

love that. Well, Chef, I've

36:34

had the opportunity to eat your food at events. But

36:38

I haven't come. You need to come. Please

36:40

come visit. I look forward to it. Please,

36:42

please. I would love it. Well, thank you

36:45

so much, Chef. This has been great. Thank

36:47

you, Francis. It's really been a joy to

36:49

connect with you and talk about one of

36:51

my favorite soups. Gregory

36:55

Gourday is chef, owner of Khan in

36:57

Portland, Oregon, and author of the cookbook,

37:00

Everybody's Table. Find his recipe for

37:02

soup for me on thetable.org.

37:09

So if you are into hot sauces

37:11

and chili oils, I'm telling you your

37:14

collection is not complete without

37:16

fly by chain chili crisp. It

37:19

is one of the most delicious condiments ever.

37:22

It's floral and numbing and sweet and savory

37:24

and hot, but not too hot. It

37:26

makes your mac and cheese go galactic. I'm

37:29

just a huge fan. Well,

37:31

its creator, Jing Gao, actually

37:33

came to the food world after her corporate career.

37:35

They happened to take her from the US back

37:37

to her native Chengdu, the capital of Sichuan province

37:40

in China. And there, she

37:42

ended up ditching her check job and

37:44

dove into the kitchen, reconnecting with her

37:46

culture and creating a

37:48

chili sauce that's now taking the world by storm. So

37:51

there's no one I'd rather talk to about

37:54

the spicy tradition of Sichuan hot sauce than

37:56

Jing. Hi Jing, it's great

37:58

to have you. Frances, how

38:00

are you? I'm great, thank you. And

38:03

it is almost lunar new year as we

38:05

are recording this. So it is definitely hot

38:08

pot season. I

38:10

guess maybe in your world, it's always hot pot season.

38:12

Yeah, in fact, I just had hot pot last night.

38:15

You are prime. This is the life. This

38:18

is the lifestyle. Hot

38:21

pot, I think technically, is

38:23

considered a soup. But it's

38:25

kind of more of a technique. And really,

38:27

I think it's an event. If

38:30

you close your eyes and imagine

38:33

your favorite hot pot ever, what

38:36

do you see? Oh,

38:39

okay. So I'm

38:41

seeing a bubbling vat of

38:43

red hot soup. And

38:46

this is probably in Chengdu where the soup

38:48

base is made from beef tallow. And

38:51

it's just teeming with peppers

38:54

and Sichuan peppers, chilies, and

38:56

all sorts of spices. Super

38:59

fragrant. And the table

39:02

is just covered in ingredients to

39:05

cook and not a single

39:07

inch of open space. And that's

39:09

what I'm seeing. And there's barely

39:11

room for your chopsticks and your bowl that you

39:13

actually have. But for those of us who have

39:15

never been indoctrinated, I say indoctrinated because I love

39:18

that you have a section in your book called

39:20

Hot Pot, It's a Religion. Just

39:23

to set the stage, like you said, there's a big table. There

39:25

is raw food all over

39:27

it, meat, vegetables, starches. And

39:29

there's generally a stove. It

39:32

could be a portable propane stove or sometimes

39:34

a little plug-in induction or something. And

39:36

then a literal hot pot of

39:39

bubbling broth. And

39:41

tell us about the activity. Yeah. So

39:44

like I said, hot pot is a

39:46

lifestyle in Sichuan. I think it originates

39:48

from Sichuan, although there are so many

39:51

different forms and types across different regions

39:53

of China. But it is a pastime.

39:58

Like it is a fun activity. you can do

40:00

with your family and friends, or you cook and

40:02

eat your food together. And it's

40:04

also a marathon. It's not a race, you

40:06

know, you're, you go to a hot pot

40:09

not expecting to be in and out within

40:12

like 30 minutes, but it's more of like

40:14

a, you know, marathon and you kind of

40:16

keep going throughout the night and you might stop

40:18

and take a break and maybe like play some

40:20

mahjong and then come back to more hot

40:24

pot. So I love hot pot

40:26

just because there's something for everyone.

40:29

Even if someone was vegetarian, you

40:31

could have different types of broth.

40:33

Okay. And at home you can

40:35

easily have like two different pots,

40:37

one that's like spicy,

40:39

maybe one that's not, there is a place

40:41

for both. Like in Sichuan, it's common

40:44

to see like a non spicy pot to

40:46

cook things like vegetables or things that

40:48

are a bit lighter that you want

40:50

a lighter flavor for. Okay. So for

40:52

Sichuan hot pot, the soup base is

40:54

the most important part and there's

40:56

an entire industries that are built around this,

40:58

right? Most

41:00

of the food factories in Sichuan, I

41:03

would say are supporting the hot pot

41:05

industry to help supply

41:08

really flavorful, delicious hot

41:10

pot soup bases to

41:13

restaurants across the country. And there are

41:16

probably more hot pot restaurants than any

41:18

other form of restaurants in China. Yeah,

41:21

it is insane. I mean, when I

41:23

first started fly by Jing, I

41:25

didn't know where to start with

41:28

manufacturing, but I just started knocking

41:30

on, you know, factory doors. Almost

41:32

every single sauce manufacturer is manufacturing

41:35

hot pot base. And

41:37

it was very hard to try to get

41:39

the attention of any of them because they

41:41

were so occupied with the hot pot industry.

41:45

But you can definitely make hot pot

41:47

base from scratch. It's not

41:50

super difficult, but what it is

41:52

is like very involved. There's a

41:54

lot of different ingredients. Yeah. Walk

41:56

us through it. Spices. Yeah. So I

41:58

would say at the foundation of it. is like

42:00

a fat, right? So you can

42:02

either use like an oil with a high smoke

42:04

point, maybe like, you know, in Sichuan, they use

42:06

an ancient form of Sichuan

42:08

rapeseed oil, has nothing to do with

42:11

European rapeseed. But it's

42:13

super fragrant, delicious, nutty,

42:16

and very healthy. So that

42:18

is kind of a base. But

42:21

in Sichuan, because flavor trumps everything,

42:23

beef tallow is often used as

42:26

the fat as well, in addition. So

42:28

beef tallow, as you can imagine,

42:30

just like bright orange,

42:34

super fragrant, you know, they bring

42:36

it to your table actually, as

42:38

a big block. And then once

42:40

the heat starts to go

42:43

and it starts to melt, it

42:45

just starts to smell amazing. And

42:48

so the fat is the foundation, then you've

42:50

got some of the spice components. So

42:52

there's a ton of chilies.

42:55

And then the other thing that contributes to the

42:57

heat of the hot pot broth is Dobanjang.

43:01

So, you know, there's different kinds

43:03

of bean paste, right? And usually they're

43:05

made from soybeans, whether it's like Korean

43:07

bean paste or Chinese bean paste, there's

43:09

so many that are made from soybeans,

43:11

black beans, whatever. But when

43:14

you talk about Dobanjang in Sichuan,

43:16

you're specifically referring to fava

43:18

bean paste. So they

43:20

ferment fava beans with chilies and

43:22

salt. And it's just

43:24

delicious. It's considered the soul of

43:27

Sichuan cuisine. It is the foundation

43:29

of things like hot pot, Maputofu,

43:31

place cooked pork, all these like really

43:34

classic Sichuan dishes. So

43:36

Dobanjang essential, a

43:38

really good chili oil essential. And

43:41

then you have all your

43:43

spices and herbs. Oftentimes they're

43:46

also like medicinal traditional Chinese

43:48

medicine herbs. But,

43:50

you know, basic ones that

43:52

you might find are like cumin, cardamom,

43:56

like giant black cardamom.

44:00

cassia bark, star

44:02

anise, fennel seeds,

44:04

you know, and then you

44:06

know there's your aromatics as well, your ginger

44:08

garlic and scallions and

44:10

stuff. And so there are different steps.

44:12

So there's you know you you toast

44:15

your spices, you put it aside, you

44:17

heat up your oils, you cook your

44:19

aromatics in the oil so that like all the fragrance

44:21

is released and then you start

44:23

to cook the dobenjang and that's when

44:25

it starts to smell really amazing and

44:28

you add the spices back to it

44:30

and it just like becomes this incredible

44:32

paste. And that

44:34

paste becomes your foundational soup base

44:37

to which you can add your

44:39

bone broth, your stocks, your waters,

44:42

you know. So three components of

44:44

hot pot is the soup base, the

44:47

ingredients you're going to cook and then the sauce that

44:49

you're going to dip it in right afterwards. So

44:52

ingredients wise, you know,

44:54

the world is your oyster. You can really

44:56

anything, anything that you can cook, you can

44:58

throw in hot pot. And you

45:01

know, so the classic ingredients are things like

45:03

thinly sliced meats. It's important for it to

45:05

be thinly sliced because you don't want to

45:07

waste. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's kind of like

45:09

a dip it in the hot pot, it

45:11

cooks in like a second. Yeah. So you

45:13

know, you can have pork and lamb and

45:16

beef. Aside from those, I love

45:19

tofu in all its forms.

45:21

You can have your regular

45:23

tofu and then one that

45:25

I really like is frozen tofu. So

45:28

when you take tofu and you freeze it,

45:31

it kind of expands on the inside into

45:33

like almost like a sponge, right? So that

45:35

is this incredible texture that I love and

45:37

I think it soaks up like hot pot

45:40

soup so well. And

45:42

then other forms like fu

45:44

zu which is like tofu skin, right?

45:46

But it's kind of like sticks that

45:48

look like bamboo or like

45:51

fried tofu balls, which you know,

45:53

golden fried on the outside really like crispy,

45:55

but then the inside is like soft and

45:57

spongy. So anyway, all the

46:00

tofu. And then fresh

46:02

seafood, sliced fish,

46:05

shellfish, you know, at some

46:08

fancy hot pot restaurants,

46:10

you might find like crab, lobster,

46:13

scallops, and so on. Or,

46:16

you know, you can go to any

46:18

Asian store and find these like frozen

46:20

seafood balls. And those are really fun.

46:22

And delicious. And then

46:24

there's like vegetables. So usually, you

46:27

know, I'll do like a mixed

46:29

veggie platter. So everything from leafy

46:31

greens to like, you know, I love

46:34

winter melon, because again, that's like another really

46:36

great vegetable to soak up soup

46:39

and flavor. Fresh

46:41

bamboo shoots, and, you

46:44

know, wood ear fungus,

46:46

different types of mushrooms in no keys, always

46:48

really popular. Oyster mushrooms,

46:51

something like a little meaty to chew. And

46:53

then last category, I feel like

46:55

a starches. You know, some people they

46:58

cook wheat noodles, I personally don't

47:00

love cooking wheat noodles in hot pot just

47:02

because of the starch that gets left behind

47:05

in the broth, which kind of muddies it up.

47:07

So I prefer using more like, you

47:10

know, vermicelli or like rice noodles,

47:12

like bean threads and exactly. But

47:15

in Sichuan, what's really

47:17

popular is like sweet potato noodles. And

47:20

those are usually like really thick

47:22

strips. So those are,

47:24

you know, my starches. And then

47:26

that brings me to like the sequence and

47:28

the, you know, how long you cook the

47:31

ingredients for. Right. So there's an order

47:33

to which you put stuff into your

47:35

pot. In the beginning, you know,

47:38

chuck in things that you can just leave

47:41

and not think about for a while. You

47:43

know, the soy products, you know, the

47:45

yuba, the tofu, they really can stand. Because they're

47:47

not overcooked. Yeah, exactly. They can be in there

47:49

for a long time. So then once

47:51

the broth really starts to boil, that's

47:54

when you can start with your proteins.

47:56

And usually I don't advocate

47:59

for just mopping the meat into the pot

48:01

because you'll lose it. Someone else

48:03

will take your meat and then you won't have

48:05

anything. So it's pretty convenient

48:07

to use like a slotted spoon or

48:10

a ladle to put your ingredients

48:12

in and just keep an eye on it. Or

48:14

you can just, depending on who you're eating with, if

48:16

you're comfortable at home and just straight

48:19

up use your chopsticks. Even if

48:21

you're touching raw meat, it's fine because you're just

48:23

cooking it in like really hot broth. It

48:25

takes only like five to 10 seconds. So it's not

48:27

much time. It's basically a dip.

48:29

Exactly. And I typically

48:32

leave like veggie towards the

48:34

end just so you

48:36

can fill up on more of the protein first and

48:39

then with leafy greens and stuff. With

48:42

leafy greens. I see but you can eat buffet. Oh

48:45

yeah, yeah, yeah. You're not going to fill up on

48:47

like broccoli. You're going to go

48:49

for the expensive proteins. And

48:51

then at the end, just kind of top

48:53

it up with some really nice Asian greens.

48:56

I love like chrysanthemum greens. So

48:58

that's also known as tong ho. It's like one of

49:00

the best, I think, leafy greens or hot pot. You

49:04

can have bok choy and

49:06

pea shoots or anything like that.

49:09

And then finally your starches. So

49:11

basically everyone sits around the thing, right? And then like, like

49:14

literally one bite at a time, one slice of beef

49:16

at a time, one shrimp at a time, you dip

49:19

it in there, it cooks literally in seconds. You

49:21

take it back out. You have that bite.

49:23

You're chatting, you're talking. But what

49:26

also happens to you is like all those ingredients will

49:28

also flavor the broth as you're cooking, right? So

49:30

it gets more and more flavorful as you go

49:32

through the night. And like you're there like all

49:34

night long. Yeah. It's

49:36

funny. I used to do it with my

49:39

friends for New Year's and we would show up at like

49:41

nine o'clock till

49:43

the ball drops. Wow. Great.

49:45

It's just an amazing event and the thing

49:48

gets more and more delicious. So thank you

49:50

for this incredible lesson in hot pot. Have

49:53

a great hot pot season. Thank you for having

49:55

me on YouTube. is

50:00

the author of A Book of Sichuan Chen

50:02

Chris and is the founder of Fly by

50:04

Gin. You can buy online or at tons

50:06

of stores around the country. You

50:08

can find a recipe for hotpot on

50:11

thetable.org. Well that

50:13

is our show for the week. Thank you so much for

50:15

listening. We'll talk to you next week. APM

50:19

Studios are run by Chandra Cavati, Alex Shatner,

50:22

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50:44

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