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a world where overspending, debt,

1:24

and keeping up with the Joneses rules

1:26

us all. Where the voices

1:28

from the merchants, restaurants, and

1:30

credit companies lord over the common

1:32

man. Out of

1:35

the darkness, like a beacon of hope,

1:37

comes a new voice. A voice

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that's rich and creamy, like your

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diet cheat day. It's

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the Stacking Benjamin Show. GAMING

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NGHIDI Live

1:58

from Joe's mom's. basement at

2:01

the Stacking Benjamin Show. I'm

2:13

Joe Slott, Neighbor Dog, and today

2:15

you'll learn how to be better

2:17

in your job from two women

2:19

who've excelled in their careers, former

2:22

Pepsi COO Grace Puma and former

2:24

Nike President of Consumer Direct, Christiana

2:26

Smith-Shee. In our headlines,

2:28

it's tax time, and we've got you

2:30

covered there with America's IRA expert,

2:33

Ed Slott. Plus, we'll hear why

2:35

one stacker said, I'd better call

2:37

Saul. See-hi

2:40

and OG! And of

2:42

course, I'll also carve out time to

2:44

share some mini trivia. And

2:46

now to guys who just might make

2:48

it in personal finance after all, it's

2:51

Joe. Oh, judge

2:53

it, judge it. Hey,

2:58

there's stackers that made action-packed

3:01

today. I mean, Doug,

3:04

when you said Grace Puma and

3:06

Christiana Smith-Shee, I mean, former COO

3:08

of Pepsi, former President

3:10

and Consumer Direct at Nike, and

3:12

then Ed Slott, it's

3:14

like, but wait, there's more. Heads

3:18

exploding. Big day. You know, so many

3:20

people struggle in their career, and Christiana

3:22

and Grace have done just

3:24

a wonderful job of mentoring

3:26

so many younger people on being

3:29

better, being better at their

3:31

job and getting further, getting more out of your

3:33

career. We're going to talk to them later.

3:35

Ed Slott first, but first the guy across

3:37

the card table from me is probably going

3:39

to answer a listener letter later on.

3:41

Mr. OG's here. How are you, buddy? For

3:44

the course, I am here.

3:46

Yeah, I'm great. President, account for... President

3:48

and account for Sir. I'm

3:51

breathing, and I'm here when you told me to be here.

3:53

I mean, what more do you want from me? That's the

3:55

enthusiastic... I was punctual.

3:58

I'm not drunk. What kind

4:02

of rules we got around this one hand

4:05

I bind my back who needs the CEO

4:07

of Pepsi and the president of Nike consumer

4:09

direct when you got og just don't be

4:11

drush show up on time you're good just

4:14

fill in the room with energy today isn't

4:16

he? You didn't see me wave I waved enthusiastically

4:20

I was like this I did like

4:22

the uh forest gump wave this

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approval. Oh boy it's

6:24

getting thick in here already. We

6:26

got to make sure the room is clean. I'm in on

6:28

investing in some fruit company and I don't have to worry

6:30

about money no more. You

6:33

know one last thing as I always

6:36

say. One last thing. Grace

6:38

Puma, Christiana Smith-Shee and Ed

6:40

Slott. We'll start with Ed

6:42

Slott. So play the open

6:44

bumper for us Steve so we can move

6:46

around the microphones. Hello

6:48

darlings and now it's

6:50

time for your favorite part of

6:52

the show. Our stacking Benjamin's headlines.

6:54

Well just in time for tax

6:56

day some people you know every

6:58

spring they think about the groundhog.

7:01

We think about Ed Slott back on Stacking Benjamin's.

7:04

That's the side that spring Ed is almost here.

7:06

The fact that you're here. How you been? Good

7:08

you know and I do all these interviews at

7:10

tax time and everybody asks the same question. So

7:12

I'm gonna ask the question and answer it and

7:14

then we can move on. Everybody's doing

7:17

their taxes on every TV show every and

7:19

this has been going on for 20-30 years.

7:21

So let's just get this off

7:23

the tape. People say Ed it's tax time

7:25

just like you did. Say very predictable. What

7:29

can people do to save on

7:31

their taxes they're filling out now?

7:33

Here's the answer. Nothing. Nothing

7:35

unless you had a time machine. That

7:38

already happened. What you should be doing

7:40

is looking ahead. Yeah you'll look at

7:42

your taxes and then you'll do the

7:44

same thing you did last year. Oh if

7:46

I only did this. Oh if I could have done this.

7:48

This Whole woulda coulda shoulda. That's in

7:50

the books. So When people ask, what

7:52

can I do now? There's very few

7:54

things. Maybe an IRA contribution, a deduction

7:56

or stuff like that. But That's it

7:59

really. Let's move off

8:01

of that and do some big picture

8:03

planning. We than save taxes for the

8:05

rest of your life. Is that even

8:07

little taxes Ed We're talking big money.

8:09

Yeah big money taxes on of millions

8:11

of dollars some people have in their

8:13

Iras and four o one K or

8:15

hundreds of thousands. You know there's a

8:17

lot of people with the stock run

8:19

up that have a looked at their

8:21

Iras and for one case at wow

8:24

with all his might this is great.

8:26

Yeah it's also great for Uncle Sam

8:28

to let me remind people that not.

8:30

All of that money is yours I

8:32

say. And every consumer seminar your Ira

8:34

is an Iou to the I Rs.

8:36

It's not all your money. You don't

8:38

even know what part of it is

8:41

your money. You'll be lucky if half

8:43

of it is least with a joint

8:45

account. Like with your husband or wife

8:47

us, you know it's half and half.

8:49

You have a joint account with Uncle

8:51

Sam who's not even your real uncle.

8:53

By the way, you have a joint

8:56

account with Uncle Sam and the his

8:58

half might be sixty or seventy percents.

9:00

By the time you reach and for yourself

9:02

a big picture is to. Get that

9:05

balance down, not build. It

9:07

up. Stop contributing the Ira's and

9:09

for a one case it's really

9:11

just alone. Yes you get a

9:13

deduction but it's really just alone

9:15

you're taking from the government that

9:17

will have to be repaid at

9:20

some time in the future when

9:22

tax rates might be much higher

9:24

or this of a big messages

9:26

take advantage of today's low tax

9:28

rates. People have our and these

9:30

don't wait our and these required

9:32

minimum distributions. Get some money out.

9:34

Now to Roth conversion so. At

9:37

tax time when you do all these things

9:39

in one year or in several years and

9:41

there's gonna be that time at tax time

9:44

when I'm on the show and people be

9:46

what listening and say, well I don't even

9:48

have any taxes on my retirement account. hey,

9:51

I'm just. well, I'm fifty six to unpack

9:53

their first. The fact that Uncle Sam's not

9:55

my real our goals might startle. some people

9:57

might need some therapy there at. We

10:01

we don't need ancestry Dna to know

10:03

that's. But. It's funny because I quote you

10:05

all the time. I'm like when we've added slot on

10:07

the show and he talks about the fact that this.

10:10

Traditional Ira. This traditional Four O One

10:12

K is a joint account with the

10:14

government. People always look at me the

10:16

same way they look at you when

10:18

you say that, which is as this

10:20

grows later on. you gotta pay the

10:22

tax and when you pay the tax,

10:24

part of that growth is going. Uncle

10:26

Sam, would you say this incendiary phrase

10:29

stop contributing diaries him for a one

10:31

case. You're not saying don't save for

10:33

retirement and you're also not saying don't

10:35

use tax advantaged accounts, just feel bit

10:37

more strategic. What do you really saying

10:39

that? Roth Iras, especially. Young people if

10:41

you have hopefully some younger listeners. I

10:43

for have opportunities that we didn't have

10:46

to start from Ground Zero from their

10:48

first states are young people should only

10:50

be doing Roth er a one case

10:52

at work and Roth Iras on their

10:55

own. Why start building. A taxable account

10:57

we didn't have. That opportunity. the only

10:59

way we can get it to tax breaks

11:01

his to pay the tax now but still

11:04

Rates are very low. Bless.

11:06

You have inflation Europe. But he

11:08

complains about inflation because it means

11:11

cop costs more. But when it

11:13

comes to taxes inflation, his garage

11:15

like frosted flakes. It's great. Why?

11:18

Because the Redstone change, but the

11:20

brackets expand each year and more

11:22

money can come out at these

11:25

historic levels. Twenty two percent, Twenty

11:27

four percent. Getting hundreds of thousands

11:29

out? I'm worried. I'm worried about

11:32

that four letter word which nobody

11:34

wants to talk about. Mass I'm

11:36

worried about the math, the debt,

11:39

and deficit levels at some point.

11:41

Or maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Congress will just

11:43

keep kicking the can down the road. but

11:46

at some point tax rates are gonna have

11:48

to go up and who's gonna be caught

11:50

in the soup when the music stops? It's

11:52

gonna be the people that did nothing that

11:54

get have these large Iras and for one

11:57

pays. it's just or tax time bomb I

11:59

call it waiting. to happen. Let's

12:01

transition that, Ed, which you seem to be implying too

12:03

is for people that need

12:05

to do the backdoor Roth IRA, right, where

12:07

they need to. Yeah, that's a good thing.

12:09

You can do still. Yeah. Like,

12:11

well, if we think tax rates are going up,

12:13

we need to do that now too. Yeah, that's

12:16

good, but it's not the big money. The big

12:18

money is in the big wholesale conversions. And nobody

12:20

likes to do that because nobody wants to pay

12:22

the tax. But what people

12:25

are missing, they're short-term thinking.

12:27

They're short-sighted. That tax is

12:29

going to be paid, not

12:31

if, but when. And

12:34

the classic foundational principle of all

12:36

good tax planning so you could

12:38

save the most is to always,

12:41

and it's so simple and people miss the

12:43

boat because they're short-sighted, always

12:45

pay taxes at the lowest

12:47

pace. That's it.

12:49

That's how simple it is. And that may

12:51

be right now. There

12:53

is a change of foot when it

12:56

comes to college planning. 529

12:58

plans, Ed, people have some long-term provisions

13:00

they didn't have before. Tell

13:02

us about those because we might have something

13:04

cool. Yeah, that's new. That's new for this

13:07

year. It's not going to solve the big

13:09

problem. The big problem is people that took

13:11

advantage. It's a great provision, these 529 tuition

13:13

plans where you put money away for kids

13:15

and grandkids. And some

13:17

people have put hundreds of thousands of dollars

13:19

away. And I've talked to some of these

13:21

families and now wish they didn't because the

13:23

darn kid got a scholarship and now what

13:25

do we do? And

13:28

they have all this money or they

13:30

went into business or something. Remember,

13:32

people make these plans when that kid is

13:34

born. They don't know. And

13:36

it sounds good. Every new parent, look, I'm

13:39

a new grandparent. My daughter's old, oh, we

13:41

got to do that right away because

13:43

we know the kid's going to be in college. What

13:46

do we know? Anyway, there's a

13:48

way to whittle down those balances, new and

13:50

secure 2.0 provision that takes

13:53

effect this year. Not going to solve the big

13:55

problem for hundreds of thousands because the overall

13:57

limit on this provision is only It's

14:00

even less than that because you can't do

14:02

it all in one year. But

14:05

the provision allows 529 balances

14:07

to be transferred directly to

14:09

Roth IRAs for the child

14:12

or grandchild who the 529 was

14:14

set up for. But

14:16

there are many limitations. First,

14:18

to qualify, the account had to be

14:20

set up for 15 years. Yeah. You're

14:23

talking about long-term things. And the last five

14:25

years don't count. And it would have to

14:27

go to the Roth IRA of the 529

14:29

beneficiary. And

14:32

the beneficiary would otherwise have to qualify

14:34

to make their own Roth IRA contribution

14:36

by having their own W-2

14:39

earnings or self-employment income. And

14:42

they can't have already contributed to a Roth

14:44

because you can't contribute to a Roth, say,

14:46

this year, $7,000 and do this for $7,000.

14:50

So you're limited to the annual amount. But

14:52

this year, assuming the child

14:55

qualifies on all of those, or the

14:57

parents, the child, grandchild, they all qualify,

14:59

you can actually double

15:01

up and not be limited

15:03

to the, say, Because

15:06

IRS has just confirmed that even though

15:08

this provision, the transfer, has

15:10

to be a direct transfer from the

15:12

529 to your Roth, to the child's

15:15

Roth, is effective this year.

15:17

If you do it this year, and

15:19

assuming the child otherwise qualifies, and

15:22

you do it before April 15th

15:25

this year, the normal deadline for

15:27

making an IRA or Roth IRA

15:29

contribution, it can qualify for last

15:32

year, even though the provision isn't effective till this

15:34

year. So you can put $6,500 in for last

15:36

year. That was

15:39

last year's amount. And do another $7,000. So

15:42

that's, you get a little bump, a little

15:44

boost for this year. You can do $7,000

15:46

and $6,000, $13,500 if otherwise qualifying. But

15:53

it still takes a while to get to the $35,000. But

15:56

you can get a little boost. That's a little item that

15:58

you can get. It

16:01

used to be, Ed, that you could change the

16:03

529 plan beneficiary if they didn't use the money.

16:07

Can I change the beneficiary to me

16:09

and then stick it in my Roth

16:11

IRA? You know, you're asking a

16:13

question very brilliant because everybody has asked the same question. Nobody

16:15

knows the answer because it was not made clear in the

16:17

law. And

16:20

unlike the other provision where you could

16:22

double up that I just talked about,

16:24

one IRS just came out and said

16:26

you could do it. They haven't given

16:28

any guidance on that, but everybody, including

16:30

me, thinks it's one 15-year term. The

16:33

big question is do I have to start the 15

16:35

years over if I change the beneficiary?

16:37

And I don't think that's the spirit of the

16:39

law. That would be ridiculous every time you change

16:41

it. You've got to start another 15-year run. I

16:44

think it's going to carry over, but we don't

16:46

know for sure. But that's the

16:48

number one question we're getting on this. Well, and

16:50

that's what we'll talk about next time, you're

16:52

with us, Ed. For people not watching us on

16:54

video, hidden in the background strategically,

16:56

you can barely see it, there might be

16:59

a book that covers some of this stuff,

17:01

Ed. Well, actually, it's not hidden. It's all

17:03

over the place. But this is old already,

17:05

believe it or not. I already

17:08

just finished. I don't have a copy of it because

17:10

it won't be out till June. I have

17:12

a new version which is updated for

17:14

Secure 2.0 because of the IRS regulations.

17:17

These things change all the time. You

17:19

really have to keep up with this

17:21

stuff. The new book is called The

17:23

Retirement Savings Time Bomb Ticks Louder

17:26

because it's a ticking time bomb. And

17:29

remember, we're in 24 now. 25 is

17:31

the last year before rates are supposed to get

17:33

checked back up again in 26. I

17:36

don't know if that's going to happen, but that's what's supposed

17:38

to happen. Well, you've always said

17:40

that at some point, back to your math comment,

17:42

it has to happen, Ed. Well, I

17:45

believe in math, but it doesn't matter what

17:47

side of the aisle you're on. You're dealing

17:49

with Congress. And any politician that

17:51

tells you, I can cut your taxes is

17:53

really just saying, I'm bad at math. Please

17:56

help me. Ed,

17:59

thank you so much for being here. a mentor again

18:01

to our stacker community. I super appreciate

18:03

you and your time, my friend. Remember,

18:05

tax-free is always better. Move your money

18:07

from forever tax to never tax at

18:09

low tax rates right now. That's the

18:12

big message. IRAs bad, anything tax-free like

18:14

Roth, life insurance, even charitable planning, that's

18:16

where you want to go. We'll

18:19

link to Ed's website and also to the

18:21

Retirement Time Bomb, Tick's Louder, so you can

18:23

pre-order it at our show notes at stackybedgemons.com.

18:25

Thanks a ton, Ed. All right. Thanks.

18:28

Big thanks from Ed Slott. And of course,

18:31

we'll have links in our show notes

18:33

page at stackybedgemons.com. But also, we

18:35

will have more on

18:37

Roth IRAs and tax planning in the 201

18:40

tomorrow. That's our big old famous

18:42

newsletter, stackybedgemons.com/201 gets

18:44

you signed up, always

18:47

free and always action-packed.

18:49

Speaking of action-packed, if

18:52

your career could go better, maybe even if you

18:54

think it's going fine, these are two

18:57

women who rose through the ranks.

18:59

And I think you could say by any measure,

19:02

quote, made it. Grace Puma is

19:04

the former executive vice president and chief

19:06

operating officer for this little company called

19:08

Pepsi. You familiar with the

19:10

Pepsi Corporation, OG? Yeah, it's that stuff

19:12

you put in your Jack Daniels. Exactly.

19:16

I'm sure that's how Grace defines it.

19:18

Before that, she had senior positions at

19:21

United Airlines, Kraft Foods, Motorola, and Gillette.

19:23

She's been ranked on the most powerful Latina

19:26

list by Fortune Magazine, recognized as executive of

19:28

the year by Latina Style Magazine. Christina

19:30

Smith, she is the former president of

19:33

Nike's Consumer Direct Division. Before

19:35

that, she was the most senior partner at

19:37

a little company called McKinsey and Company. Not

19:40

sure if you've heard of that one as

19:42

well, guys. Doug, you've been in the consulting

19:44

business. I did. I

19:46

know McKinsey. They are top shelf,

19:48

man. When they're in your corporate

19:50

offices, one of two things is

19:52

going to happen. Major,

19:54

major improvement to your business.

19:58

Probably some cost. optimization.

20:01

Everyone's getting

20:03

fired. Doug

20:05

is familiar with the phrases cost

20:07

optimization and meet

20:09

me at HR. Pretty

20:12

sure that Mackenzie has a trademark

20:14

on right sizing. Specifically

20:17

right sizing Doug. They

20:21

are up next but to get there

20:24

Doug while we rearrange microphones again you've

20:27

got today's bonus pack

20:29

of 70s

20:31

television. I don't know let's

20:33

find out. Hey there stackers I'm Joe's

20:35

mom's neighbor Doug. Between Joe and OG

20:37

and our guests we have a lot

20:39

of wacky characters here on Stack and

20:41

Benjamin's. Always thought we'd make

20:44

a great workplace sitcom like that uh

20:46

that old show. Mary Tyler Moore. OG

20:48

would be Lou Grant of

20:50

course because dude's totally grumpy. Joe would be

20:52

Murray since he likes to give me a

20:54

hard time and I'd be Ted Baxter of

20:57

course because I'm the boss around here. Just

20:59

don't tell Joe that. I

21:02

like to let him think he's in

21:04

charge. Set in Minneapolis the Mary Tyler

21:06

Moore show ran for seven seasons and

21:08

dealt with groundbreaking topics for the time

21:10

such as equal pay birth control and

21:13

sexual independence. I talk about

21:15

my own sexual independence all the time but

21:17

you don't see anyone giving me an Emmy

21:19

for it. I'll show them. Wait I

21:21

can't show them or you're gonna

21:23

call HR? Alright got it fine

21:25

my apologies. Where was I? Oh

21:29

while the show centered around a

21:31

single career woman the real Mary

21:33

was actually married. Together with her

21:35

husband Grant Tinker she launched MTM

21:38

Enterprises which produced her namesake show

21:40

as well as dozens of others

21:42

including the Bob Newhart show, Bill

21:44

Street Blues and Cheers. I had

21:47

to start my own production company then I

21:49

can finally make the show's mom's neighbor Doug

21:51

show. Today's

21:54

trivia question is what was

21:56

Mary Tyler Moore's production company's

21:58

mascot? Here's a hint, it

22:01

riffs off one of the great entertainment

22:03

mascots of all time. I'll

22:05

be back right after I find where I

22:07

flung my hat. And

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25:19

Scatters Time soon to be sitcom

25:21

star and Stalking Regiments mascot Joe's

25:23

mom's neighbor died after the first

25:25

season. The final lyric of the

25:28

Mary Tyler Moore theme song change

25:30

from you Might Just Make It

25:32

After All to you're Gonna Make

25:34

It After all, because you really

25:37

proved herself at first year of

25:39

producing television. Today's trivia question is

25:41

what was Mary Tyler Moore's production

25:43

companies mascot? The Answer Marry named

25:45

her company Mtm as a nod.

25:48

To industry giants Mcm whose iconic

25:50

mascot was a lion and so

25:53

for her own company marry with

25:55

with a kitten. ah

25:58

like Yeah, that's

26:00

cute. And now, let's go from

26:02

kitten to Puma with two women

26:04

here to teach you all it

26:06

takes to make it to the

26:08

top of your field. It's today's

26:10

mentors, Grace Puma and Christiana Smithsheep.

26:15

And I'm super happy they're joining me in the

26:17

basement. Christiana and Grace are here. How are you?

26:20

We're good. Nice to talk to you. Very good,

26:22

thank you. It's great to talk to you, but

26:25

I'm wondering this. How

26:27

do two people with your resumes meet? Because

26:29

I have to, you know, just thinking about

26:31

your careers and all the things that you've

26:33

done, I have to imagine that

26:36

there's not a lot of time for just going

26:38

out and meeting people that

26:40

are doing the amazing things that you two

26:43

are doing with completely different companies. I

26:45

don't know who wants to take that question. I'll

26:47

start. You're right, though, as

26:49

grownups, I think we all realize it's harder to

26:52

make new friends, and you definitely

26:54

don't join a corporate board to make a

26:56

new friend, but that's exactly what happened with

26:58

me and Grace. We both joined

27:00

the same public company board as directors, same

27:02

day, two women, which means

27:04

you notice each other right away in that

27:06

environment, and we connected pretty

27:09

early on. We have similar day-forward

27:11

styles. We have, you know, similar deep

27:14

expertise. Grace is in the operations field. Mine

27:16

is in retail and consumer, but I could

27:19

tell right away that when she said things,

27:21

she knew what she was talking about, and,

27:24

you know, we're both pretty straight shooters, and

27:26

so I think it started with recognizing

27:28

and appreciating each other's contributions, but over

27:30

time, getting to know each other better

27:33

as people and really clicking as

27:35

friend. For people listening, by the

27:37

way, in the audio podcast, that was Christiana, and

27:39

we'll just do these introductions very quickly, but Christian,

27:41

I want to stick with you for just a

27:43

moment on that, because I know

27:46

from reading your book that

27:48

you've been accused during your career of networking.

27:50

I remember somebody rolled their eyes at you

27:52

or something, you're networking all the

27:55

time with people who this person thought was irrelevant

27:57

to your career, and you kind of pushed back

27:59

and said, that it's never relevant. Tell

28:01

me about you and networking and

28:03

why. Well, I didn't think of

28:06

it as networking, Joe, and I think that's

28:08

partly why it's more natural and

28:10

more organic. I thought of it as

28:12

connecting with people. What

28:14

that particular colleague was reacting to

28:17

was always taking phone calls

28:19

from people that were looking for jobs and

28:21

trying to help them find jobs. They

28:24

were either former clients of mine or it

28:27

was during the Great Recession a few years

28:29

ago. My perspective is what

28:31

goes around comes back around. So if you

28:33

actually want to build a professional network, and

28:35

Grace and I believe that a

28:37

professional network is one of the biggest assets you can

28:39

have in your career, you want to build

28:41

a good one, then you've got to cultivate

28:43

it just like anything else, and you've got to

28:46

pay real attention to it. And the best way

28:48

to do that is actually helping

28:50

people when they reach out to you. Grace,

28:53

what do you remember from that first meeting with Christiana? Pretend

28:56

she's not here. Tell us the truth. I

28:59

always do. She

29:01

always pretends I'm not here, Joe. No,

29:03

I always tell the truth. Well,

29:06

you know what? I remember sitting down and

29:08

we actually went out for a drink on

29:10

Fisherman's Wharf after a meeting, and we started

29:12

to talk about our personal lives and who

29:14

we were as people. And one of the

29:16

things we found is that we both had adult

29:19

children, if you could call them that. They

29:21

were mid-career, and we really wanted to transfer

29:24

knowledge to them and our experiences and transfer

29:26

learning. And then we went on to talk

29:28

about the amount of people that come for

29:30

mentoring. And so it was really kind of

29:32

rooted in how do you share

29:35

your insights and the insights and the

29:37

learnings that we have and the strategies

29:39

that we talk about in this book are

29:41

very transferable and relevant to today. So from

29:44

there, with the intent of paying it forward

29:46

and being able to help people have the

29:48

benefit of some of the things we had

29:50

to learn along our way, you know, we

29:53

went and birthed the book. And the other

29:55

thing is we really had an appreciation. I

29:57

mean, Christiana Is an amazing person. We Got

29:59

to... The senior levels very

30:02

different paths. And. That's very

30:04

relevant because as he talks about it,

30:06

we realized the thought about becoming me

30:08

or her or what we achieved. This

30:10

about people really being able to realize

30:13

their greatest potential and define their journey

30:15

and their aspirations strategically. So you know

30:17

that's really what this is about. Can.

30:19

I ask you about the potential because

30:21

you share of his sleeve. What are

30:24

some alarming statistics for women in the

30:26

workplace and the two of you climb

30:28

the corporate ladder to time when I'm

30:30

hoping it was more difficult isn't getting

30:32

better grades for women. I

30:34

think it's a look I think every generation

30:36

has it sound as, but I do think

30:39

it's getting better for women. Definitely for one

30:41

thing, In our were living in an

30:43

environment now or businesses are much more

30:45

flexible to men and women about how

30:47

they achieve their career aspirations and how

30:49

they're able to integrate. And we talk

30:51

about this concept a three sixty degree

30:53

lies other able to integrate their personal

30:55

lives in their professional lives. So that

30:57

they can be successful at both. So I

30:59

think that's a key factor. I also think

31:02

there's a key factor on the ability to

31:04

get exposed to a lot. Of different

31:06

opportunities and a lot of different industries.

31:08

Now so the hiring. In. The

31:10

hiring base and people being more mobile

31:13

opens up opportunities. As well. So I

31:15

do think. It's ah, I don't want

31:17

to. his word easy, Okay. careers. We'll

31:19

have our long journeys. Okay, there's twists.

31:21

Third turns their the economic downturns. I

31:24

mean, lot of. Things that you're seeing

31:26

today in the news so it's not

31:28

easy, but they are his. Arm and

31:30

infrastructure and an hour that's helping I

31:32

think make this a little more achievable

31:35

for people. Christiana. The

31:37

To you draw a big difference between the job

31:39

you're in today and the career you're looking to

31:41

have. Can you talk about that? Because I think

31:43

most of us get hung up in why Just

31:45

want to be the best worker I am today.

31:47

People will hopefully notice and I'll get promoted. Yes,

31:51

I recall sending those exact thoughts: Cellar

31:53

Cell It's very common thing and there

31:55

is nothing wrong with doing a good

31:57

job. At the job you're in today. We.

32:00

I just want people to remember that your job is not your

32:02

career. And so what's that mean? It's

32:05

table stakes to be good at what you're doing right now.

32:08

Grace and I talk a lot about a

32:10

concept called professional equity, which is how you

32:12

build credibility and a track record at work

32:15

that you can then leverage and invest in

32:17

a lot of flexibility and opportunities later. But

32:20

you don't build that professional equity unless you're good

32:22

at what you do. So when people ask me

32:24

or Grace, how can we be you? How can

32:26

we have your career? I always tell them first

32:28

things first, be good at what you do. Okay,

32:31

but why is a job not a career? Because

32:34

if you're just chasing the next title,

32:36

the next salary bump, the next scope

32:38

increase, you may find it's like

32:40

jumping rocks across some pond and you get to the

32:42

other side, but it's not a place you want to

32:44

be. We want people

32:46

to think about what their career

32:49

destination is and what they want

32:51

to do over time in life and

32:53

what are the capabilities they're going to need to

32:56

get there and what are the experiences they need

32:58

and what kind of environment they want to work

33:00

in and what people they enjoy being around and

33:02

collaborating with. All sorts of questions we have in

33:04

the book that you can do your own diagnostic,

33:07

put together your own career goals, right? We

33:09

call it your cardinal direction and

33:11

then work strategically as Grace said

33:14

to get yourself there over time

33:16

versus I'm just trying to max out today in

33:18

the job that I'm in. You

33:21

know, it's interesting because when you think about

33:23

a career forward mindset and the

33:25

description of really defining your cardinal

33:27

direction and your strategic path, there's

33:29

a ton of practical benefits to

33:31

it. In addition

33:33

to having a big career, you actually start

33:35

to realize that you're driving your career.

33:38

You're not dependent on a particular

33:40

company or a particular job for

33:42

your career growth. You're determining how

33:45

you're cultivating your skill sets, how

33:47

you're growing, how you're building next gen

33:49

capabilities and what jobs you take to help

33:51

progress you to your aspirations. The

33:54

whole risk profile and your

33:57

job of being laid off or the fear of being

33:59

laid off. It kind of goes away

34:01

because you realize that you're going to be

34:03

building marketability and you're going to be able

34:05

to make choices in your companies and outside

34:08

your companies. That's a very empowering place

34:10

to be through your career journey. Is

34:12

that what I'm looking for when I'm 30 years

34:14

old, Grace? Because I hear you and Christiana talk

34:16

and I think, when I was 30, my

34:19

career was in such a fog. I

34:21

mean, I'm with American Express. I have no

34:23

idea really where I want to go. When

34:25

I hear this idea of having kind of

34:27

this North Star, I just look back

34:29

at me at that age and I go, I just

34:31

didn't know what I was looking for. I mean, it's as simple as I

34:33

want to run a company. But then again, I

34:36

had twins. I had young twins at the time. I also

34:38

wanted to spend time at home with them. You're

34:40

speaking to a lot of people who were like the

34:42

two of you mothers and having a family. Grace,

34:45

what does that North Star kind of look like

34:47

if I'm 30 years old? It's a

34:49

very good question. First of all, when

34:51

you first get out of school and your first

34:53

few jobs, you're learning what you like,

34:55

you're learning what are the best environments for you and

34:57

that shapes a piece of it. But

34:59

to your point about being 30 years old, I do

35:01

think you may not know exactly, but we didn't wake up

35:03

and say, hey, I wanted to be the chief operating officer

35:06

of a hundred billion dollar company. What

35:08

we did though, is by the time I was

35:10

30, is start to realize that there were certain

35:12

capabilities that A, we're starting to

35:14

differentiate my ability to contribute,

35:17

like leading transformations. I love

35:19

transformations. There were certain

35:21

types of work that gave me

35:24

energy that I actually really felt

35:26

were intellectually interesting. In that

35:28

time I was in global procurement. When

35:31

you start to think about the type of

35:33

work that you like to do and the

35:35

type of ways you can contribute and grow,

35:37

you start at 30 to

35:39

shape what is it I want

35:41

to be doing? And then you start

35:44

to look for the right opportunities to

35:46

cultivate environments and work like that. It

35:49

may not be, I want this particular job, but

35:51

it starts to build the tracks towards

35:53

what you want to aspire to. Let's

35:56

go even younger than that. My

35:59

30 year old example. Earlier Cristiana are you

36:01

made some big moves and high school?

36:03

I mean if we're talking to our

36:05

youngest, staggers like just this idea. your

36:07

parents want you to go to and

36:09

affordable schools. A lot of people you

36:11

know it in finance especially we talk

36:13

about you can get it here. You

36:15

decided that Stamford was the place for

36:17

you. Can you talk about your education,

36:19

decision and for our staggers? That or

36:21

maybe just starting out how that can

36:23

impact positively or negatively their journey. I.

36:26

Think Education. Was.

36:28

One of my. On

36:30

lock still to my to the a

36:32

journey because I was the middle child

36:34

in a bid family. And. We

36:36

never had enough money to go around. I

36:40

watched my mom who had that married at

36:42

age twenty, go back to school after old

36:44

of us were in school and go all

36:46

the way through and dead or chd. And.

36:49

Doing. It at night and do it on weekends

36:52

and picking years and years and years. surrender dissertation

36:54

restaurants about it like to news and signed where

36:56

it is when you need to work. I'm. Against

36:58

son Alex of. It took her

37:01

a long time, but she never sat,

37:03

and she never explicitly told us that

37:05

education. Was. The ticket. But

37:08

she. Spoke to A through their actions,

37:10

right? The sap that even with five kids,

37:12

she was willing to. Do. Night school

37:14

and do all the other stuff. She added it with my

37:16

dad support. Saturday. Models

37:18

that and as a kid growing up and said

37:21

he will also on to get out of San

37:23

Diego you know at that time with kinda sleepy

37:25

Navy town and. I didn't know

37:27

what I would ever do their that. That

37:29

would excite me. We. Talk about

37:31

how your career direction get sharper overtime.

37:33

So in the early stages it is

37:36

okay if your career direction as. I

37:38

want to learn as. I. Want

37:41

to get an education? I want to

37:43

understand how to. Do. Math, how

37:45

to talk to people had out how to

37:47

make money I wanted. Just get smarter. Okay,

37:50

And. Then as you do that you start forget what

37:52

subjects you like. And. What subjects

37:54

a good at what feels intuitive to you

37:56

at school? Have tons of people lucky you

37:58

got bad that come so easy. to you. I have

38:00

to work so hard on that, right? For me, it was

38:03

not science. For my sister, it was science. And

38:05

it was very clear to me we were different because

38:07

I took chemistry in summer school just because

38:09

I had to take it and I couldn't wait to get

38:11

over it, right? And she was, you know, biocorn,

38:14

blah, blah, right? That's

38:16

what you do in school. Then you get out of school

38:18

and we say, okay, get a job. That's

38:21

how you figure out your cardinal direction at age 25, is

38:23

you get a job. And as Grace said, you

38:25

figure out from the jobs that you're doing one after

38:27

another, where do you fit in? What do you like?

38:29

Where do you hate getting out of bed every morning?

38:31

Where are you jumping out of bed every morning? And

38:33

if your job doesn't fit you at that age, hitch.

38:36

It's okay because you learned what a

38:38

bad fit is. 30 though,

38:40

as you picked the number 30, you kind

38:42

of drop the flag-ish around them because you're

38:44

usually committing to other things in your life

38:46

or in or around them. You

38:48

start to actually ask yourself hard questions. You know, what am

38:51

I good at? What do I want to be known for?

38:53

What do I want to do in terms of impact? Do

38:55

I like leading people? Do I want to be

38:57

an individual contributor? You actually have

38:59

enough of a runway behind you to

39:02

answer some key questions. And we would just

39:04

argue that process of asking yourself those questions

39:06

can go on your entire life. And

39:08

it's okay if things move and change a little bit

39:10

in terms of the direction as you go. I

39:13

love this idea and it kind of is shades

39:16

of, who is that management guru

39:18

in the 1990s? I think he still publishes from

39:20

time to time. Tom Peters. Tom

39:22

Peters talks about don't wait for your manager to train

39:24

you. Like if you want to be good at your

39:26

career, take control of your career. Like that's kind of

39:29

what I'm hearing. The thing that

39:31

I want to ask about is, Christian,

39:33

you talk about excitement and kind of

39:35

following what excites you when you're

39:37

young and what really lights you up and

39:39

where those hot buttons are. And if you're

39:41

not getting it where you are now to

39:43

move on. Both of you have changed companies.

39:47

Many times, Grace, you had a

39:49

very comfortable position at Kraft

39:53

and moved over to an airline, oh

39:55

God. Like I

39:57

just remember Warren Buffett saying that if anybody...

40:00

tells them to buy an airline stock, take

40:02

two aspirin and it's all on the fee

40:04

that's gone. Yeah.

40:07

Right. But you moved because you said earlier

40:09

you really like times of transformation and working

40:11

through transformative opportunities. By the way, were you

40:13

there when Oscar was Oscar Munoz? No, no,

40:16

I was there when Glenn Tilton was there.

40:18

When Glenn Tilton. Okay. We had Oscar Munoz

40:20

on last summer and boy, what a dynamic

40:22

person. But let's talk about that move

40:24

because that seems, you

40:26

know, if we just kind of plot that

40:29

out, that seems like going from a very

40:31

safe place at Kraft to a very risky

40:33

place with United. Yeah, it was a very

40:35

thoughtful, but very high risk move. And

40:38

so why did I do it? I mean,

40:40

people thought it was crazy. I was in

40:42

senior levels at a food company doing well,

40:44

but I left and took the Chief Procurement

40:46

Officer job at United Airlines for a couple

40:48

of reasons. One was my daughter was

40:50

still in high school, and it wasn't a time to

40:52

move her. So I was getting called and ready for

40:54

CPO positions, but they didn't want to relocate. But

40:57

the real reason is, you know, Glenn Tilton was

40:59

running the airline. He was an oil executive and his

41:01

intent was not to run the airline like an airline,

41:04

but to truly transform it. And he brought in

41:06

a lot of different leadership that had different types

41:08

of expertise from different industries to be able to

41:10

bolster what they already had and

41:12

transform the airline and ultimately sell it

41:14

off. So it was always intended to be a three-year

41:17

gig, so to speak. But what I got out

41:20

of it was I still left a very stable

41:22

food company went over there and I was a single parent

41:24

at the time. And very shortly after

41:26

joining and transforming, if you would, the

41:28

procurement function that was running and building

41:31

up the capabilities, the financial crisis hit.

41:34

It was really scary. Our price had gone down.

41:36

I used to joke with my boss, who was

41:38

the Chief Operating Officer at the time, to nearly

41:40

the price of a latte. And,

41:43

you know, I would sit there being

41:45

the primary supporter for my family. And

41:47

I was really wondering what did I

41:49

do? But what really happened

41:51

was it gave me invaluable

41:53

experience. I mean, first of all, I

41:55

loved the three years that I had worked there

41:57

because I could be part of a very lean,

42:00

management structure that went through transformation,

42:02

but also went through major financial

42:04

and business crisis. And being

42:06

part of that, I was up front and got

42:09

exposure to being part of the decisions we

42:11

were making to turn around the company and whether

42:13

such a severe situation. So what

42:15

I gained was invaluable skills. And I

42:17

loved the people I worked with. And

42:20

it was just like being on a SWAT

42:23

team together. And it was intellectually expanding. And,

42:25

you know, after we got the company turned

42:27

around, increased performance, and we were part of

42:29

the team that sold it off and into

42:32

a merger. And I went off

42:34

and it led me with the capability

42:36

I built to the next big role,

42:38

which was in the PepsiCo organization. You

42:40

know, you can look backwards and say, wow, what

42:43

were you thinking? Everybody thought, what was I thinking

42:45

when I went? I would never trade that experience

42:47

for anything. And part of

42:49

what I had in the background was knowing

42:51

that I had built professional equity. And

42:54

I had ensured that I had built

42:56

a nest egg that had things gone

42:58

south, and the financial crisis continued to

43:00

hit the airline and maybe things evaporated.

43:03

I knew I'd be okay. I

43:05

knew I would still be able to count on

43:07

being able to progress towards my career aspirations. But

43:09

yeah, it was a great experience. And it was

43:12

something that really helped shape me. Christiana,

43:14

same question, but you've got the opposite, right?

43:16

Grace is looking at United as a

43:19

three-year gig. You're at Mackenzie

43:21

for, I think, 21 years. You

43:24

stay with one organization for a long time.

43:26

Talk to me about that and the different

43:28

path that you took than Grace took. So

43:32

this is what Grace met when she said

43:34

we discovered we both had very different careers,

43:36

but very similar beliefs about what it takes

43:38

to build a good career. In

43:40

management consulting, because your teams change every time,

43:43

it's project-driven work, right, for anyone who doesn't

43:45

know. You're working with clients on particular issues

43:47

for a defined period of time, and then

43:50

you move on to the next project. I

43:53

have kind of what I call a high rev. Like if

43:55

I'm at a red light and I'm a car, you can

43:57

imagine that I'm the one revving the engine at the red

43:59

light. And so that high

44:01

turnover of new projects, new

44:03

clients, new challenges for me

44:06

was a constant process of

44:08

reinvention. And then at the same

44:10

time, it's a career path where you move

44:12

pretty quickly to either succeed

44:14

or to leave. So your

44:16

typical path to partnership is about six years.

44:20

You know, for someone like me, it meant that

44:22

the level I was at, the managerial responsibilities I

44:24

had, the clients I served, all of

44:26

those things were changing constantly.

44:29

And for someone like me, that was invigorating.

44:32

And then 20 some odd years ago

44:35

by, as you said, I was a senior partner

44:37

at that point. And I

44:39

kind of look back and realize, I feel

44:41

like for the first time in my career,

44:43

I'm kind of doing the same things over

44:45

and over again. Because I'd been a

44:47

senior partner for 10 years. I had

44:50

a lot of stable clients, which is great, loved them all.

44:53

I'd seen a wide range of business problems. So

44:55

there weren't as many like, you

44:57

know, new crises that were coming at that I

44:59

hadn't at least got some pattern recognition around. And

45:03

that didn't work for me. You know, for me,

45:05

I kind of like grace

45:07

going to United, I needed to raise the

45:09

bar again. You know, we talk a

45:11

lot about watching out for what we call

45:14

benevolent stagnation, which is when you're in

45:16

someplace that's very comfortable and

45:18

you're doing okay. And you

45:20

lose sight of the fact that you can't

45:23

really hold yourself in the same position forever

45:25

because gravity will eventually pull you down. And

45:28

especially in business today, if you're not moving forward,

45:30

eventually you're going to move back. And

45:32

I kind of had that realization. And

45:35

that's the next time that I checked in with myself

45:37

about my cardinal direction and what I wanted to do.

45:40

And I realized what I wanted to do was

45:42

be in a position where in addition to solving

45:45

tough problems, I could actually see the implementation

45:47

of the solution all the way through and

45:50

be responsible and accountable for whether it worked or

45:52

it didn't work. And that's what

45:54

led me to go from McKinsey to Nike. Well,

45:57

and even before that, I just love the reason you went

45:59

to McKinsey. in the first place, which

46:01

it turns out, Christiana, was really, obviously

46:04

it's a great fit if you stay there

46:06

that long, but you were at Merrill and

46:08

didn't love the culture. I was on the

46:10

street, Joe. You would recognize this, yes. That's

46:14

where people lose their hair, Christiana, right there.

46:16

Yeah, or lose their mind, right? I mean, it's,

46:18

and I was there in the 80s. It was

46:20

so go, go, go. It was total barbarians at

46:22

the gate time. If anybody's ever seen that movie

46:24

or read the book, Gordon Gekko, like

46:26

flashy guys in suits and cigars and

46:28

all that stuff. You know, almost

46:30

no women. It's an example of what we

46:33

talk about in the book, which is just

46:35

get a job out of college. You're going to learn so

46:37

much. So I needed to pay off my student loans. Investment

46:40

banking was one of the highest paying starting

46:42

roles that you could get out of undergrad.

46:45

And I figured if I could do it for a couple of

46:47

years, I'd make a decent dent in the big pile

46:49

of debt that I had getting out of school. And

46:52

so I did it for three years. I landed at Merrill

46:54

and I really admire the firm. I still do. I

46:57

got tremendous exposure and learning there.

47:00

I feel like I grew up. I even learned

47:02

like what cocktails to cool people drink when they go

47:05

out. You know, I was kind of a student of

47:07

the whole like, Oh, this is

47:09

what serious work looks like. This is what big

47:11

time players do. This is what, you know, cause

47:13

we were working with CFOs and CEOs

47:15

and you know, senior partners in the bank and all

47:17

the rest of that. So I learned a

47:19

lot, but I would say by my third week at

47:21

Merrill, I wrote a note to myself that I was

47:24

going to go to business school and I'd never thought

47:26

about business school before. And the reason was

47:28

because I knew that the longest I could probably stand

47:30

to work at Merrill was two to three years. At

47:33

that point, I was going to have to go

47:35

do something else and business school or any

47:37

additional education kit, as I told you, it can

47:39

be a great reset point. And

47:41

so particularly knowing I wanted a business

47:44

career, that was the right choice for me. And

47:46

so I laid tracks for the next two and a half

47:48

years from Merrill to business

47:50

school in terms of who am I

47:52

going to get to know who's going to write my

47:54

recommendations, like thinking ahead so that I didn't

47:56

get to applying to business school and have nothing to

47:59

put on the app. I

48:01

want to go back to this idea of

48:03

benevolent stagnation because you started to feel it

48:05

at McKinsey after a long time there, which

48:07

is great. If you can go 20 plus

48:10

years in an organization and not feel

48:13

that, how wonderful is that? I

48:15

remember, by the way, Christian, and there was a

48:17

warning in your book, like, the thing

48:19

to watch out for is not just that you're

48:22

stagnating, but the people around you are letting you

48:24

stagnate. I remember we had this, whenever we had

48:26

a really tough question, we would go to him

48:28

because he knew everything. And then

48:30

we realized that a lot of our paychecks were way

48:32

higher than his was. And we

48:34

were growth stocks, to use a term that you use in

48:36

your book. And he was not. He was

48:38

the guy we went to because we were very happy to

48:40

have him stagnate and help our careers,

48:44

which isn't good. But on the other side,

48:46

Grace, you talked earlier about equity and

48:48

building equity. And you guys talk about

48:50

these equity players and knowing who the

48:52

equity players are and you

48:54

building equity in your career. Can you kind

48:56

of define that for us? Because a lot

48:58

of our stackers' ears perk up whenever they

49:01

hear the word equity. Yeah, sure. Well, it

49:03

does resonate in the concept of looking at

49:05

yourself as a growth stock. And that's how

49:07

you build equity. So when you

49:09

think about it, when we say growth stocks, pick

49:11

any company you want, Apple back in the day.

49:14

The growth stocks that are basically known to deliver

49:16

exponential value over their competition for

49:18

longer periods of time. When you

49:20

double click beyond that, it's really

49:22

around investing in the next level

49:24

of capability. And having the

49:26

foresight for that. So take that concept and

49:28

apply it to yourself. People who have

49:30

a career forward mindset and manage their

49:32

careers as a growth stock, they're

49:34

going to be investing. And other people like companies

49:37

are going to invest in you to be

49:39

able to grow their capabilities. And it's going

49:41

to be way beyond what you

49:43

do today. So professional equity is really

49:45

one of the outcomes of that. Because

49:48

you're ahead of the curve. You're not just looking

49:50

at your performance review for today and that my boss

49:52

loves me and that I'm doing good work. You're

49:54

thinking about how I'm constantly ahead of

49:57

the curve trying to build next gen

49:59

capabilities and contributions. From

50:01

that comes professional equity. And when you

50:03

have professional equity, it gives

50:05

you tremendous benefit. For one thing,

50:07

it's gonna open up all kinds of opportunities

50:09

to you. When you raise your hand and

50:12

say, gee, you know, I'd like to go

50:14

lead this particular project that might be outside

50:16

your scope, or I know the company's moving

50:18

into AI, can I get exposure

50:20

to that capability building? The

50:23

answer is gonna likely be yes. If

50:25

you ever find yourself in a

50:28

difficult situation or a change situation,

50:30

you're likely to be able to

50:32

have opportunities. So professional equity is

50:34

really important and it's rooted in

50:36

a continual state of insatiable

50:39

appetite to grow and to

50:41

develop. And it's critical today.

50:45

I love this idea. Joe, can I give you an example? Oh,

50:47

please do. Just to make it real. Grace and

50:49

I said we wrote this book in part because

50:51

we're advising our 30-something year old kids all the

50:53

time. So my

50:55

daughter-in-law, who is in her early 30s,

50:58

has a baby, my first grandchild.

51:00

She's 10 months old. She

51:02

works in technology. And it's mostly a work

51:04

from home, like a lot of tech companies.

51:07

It's very flexible. But a couple

51:10

weeks ago, she got invited to

51:12

go to an offsite that was going to

51:14

require a three-day trip. Her

51:16

first instinct was to turn it down because she's

51:19

still nursing, to be gone for three days, the

51:21

logistics, blah, blah, blah. She also

51:23

knew if she went, she'd get

51:25

a chance to meet senior management in person, which nowadays

51:27

in the virtual world doesn't happen often. And there'd be

51:29

a lot of good connections and a lot of learning

51:31

that she would get, right? So

51:34

she took it on herself to

51:36

investigate some alternatives for how she could

51:38

keep nursing, not waste the

51:41

milk. I won't go into all the details, but

51:43

any nursing mom knows all the calculations you're trying

51:45

to make during that three days is a long

51:47

time. She proposed to her

51:49

boss that she

51:51

sign up with a new subscription service that

51:54

is actually aimed exactly at this, that helps

51:56

women freeze and ship things home. I won't

51:58

go into details, but it's the coolest thing. Wow,

52:00

yeah. Yeah, really, really

52:02

cool. Don't ask me

52:04

the name, but I just, it blew my mind.

52:06

But she did the research to find this solution

52:09

and she had the nerve to present it instead

52:11

of saying, you know, which would

52:13

be a lot of our first instinct, right? Well, I can't

52:15

change the situation. I see they're black or white. I either

52:17

go or I don't go. She

52:19

said, okay, I'm going to come up

52:21

with an alternative. And then because she

52:23

knows that she has built credibility

52:26

with leadership because she is good and they

52:28

actually want her there, which is why they

52:30

invited her, she had the confidence to present

52:32

this alternative. And she said, I very much

52:34

want to go. I think I contribute a lot. I

52:36

think I'll learn a lot. I need the

52:39

company to support me by covering this cost

52:41

because it's not cheap. This particular service, as

52:43

an example, as you can imagine, is not cheap.

52:46

And they said, okay. And

52:48

she went. She came back

52:50

so energized and so recharged, not to mention

52:52

two full nights of sleep, you know, which

52:54

as a new mom is a rare thing.

52:56

You know, she FaceTimed the baby a lot,

52:58

worried a lot, but she's so

53:01

glad she went. And it's an example

53:03

of she had built professional equity. She's

53:05

good. They want her. They want

53:07

to invest in her. She took initiatives

53:09

to figure out solutions versus accepting a

53:11

go-no-go kind of framework. And

53:14

then she had the confidence to present those solutions

53:16

and ask for what she needed. And

53:18

that's what we're talking about. If you build that

53:20

equity, you can then invest it, quote unquote, by

53:23

asking for the flexibility in these

53:25

different situations. Well, and what

53:27

I love is that I know there's a

53:29

bunch of our stackers that don't think that

53:31

they have the skills yet. And yet you

53:33

present many things that you learned in

53:35

the book and how to teach them, like how to begin.

53:38

I remember there's a great there's a woman in the book

53:40

who is having trouble getting her

53:42

point across in a room full of type

53:45

A people. And you guys

53:47

teach that you open up talking

53:49

about being on stage and how you had to learn

53:51

to be somebody that can speak in front of it.

53:53

You wouldn't do what the two of you have done

53:55

your career without being able to speak in front of

53:57

people. And those are just a couple of amazing things.

54:00

is called Career Forward Strategies from

54:02

Women Who've Made It and

54:04

I believe it is available at amazon.com and

54:06

anywhere you buy books. So

54:09

literally you have no excuse. If you like

54:11

what we talked about you can get a copy.

54:15

I have to before I let you go I'd be

54:17

remiss if I didn't ask you a couple of questions

54:19

that I'm sure on everybody's mind that have really

54:22

nothing to do with career but more about

54:24

the places where you were. Grace let's start

54:26

with you. So the COO

54:29

of Pepsi goes into a restaurant and

54:31

all they serve is that evil Coca-Cola.

54:34

What does the COO of Pepsi do in that

54:36

situation? How do you navigate that? You

54:39

don't order a soft drink. If

54:43

you want to take a step further you

54:46

make sure you give that restaurant information to

54:48

your sales folks in the food service business.

54:50

But yeah you stand behind your

54:52

brands and you don't. You drink water, you

54:54

drink wine, you don't order a soft drink. I

54:56

thought you might walk out but instead you're selling.

54:58

You're selling. You're like what's the deal? Yeah that's

55:01

better. Yeah make a new customer. A

55:03

second question for you. You know when people

55:05

look at the brands behind Pepsi they

55:07

see all of these quirky brands. Like

55:09

you had no idea Pepsi was the

55:12

company behind X brand. What's the one

55:14

that surprises people the most about

55:16

Pepsi when they hear that Pepsi is the

55:18

parent company of this brand? Yeah

55:21

so PepsiCo is huge. It's a hundred billion

55:23

dollar company and I think the

55:25

one that's interesting is probably the Frito-Lay

55:27

business. They think Frito-Lay is a separate company

55:29

and it is a company one of the

55:31

big business units. It's in PepsiCo so when

55:33

you're talking about Doritos or any

55:36

of the other products I think people think

55:38

because of PepsiCo that they think it's primarily

55:40

the beverage side of the business. And it's

55:42

a very global business too. So there's a

55:44

lot of other brands that are probably not

55:46

as well known under the umbrella. I look at some

55:48

of those quarterly reports that you

55:51

had during your time at Pepsi and

55:53

I think that my Dorito consumption helped

55:55

float the company. So you're welcome Grace.

55:58

You're welcome. Blaming

56:00

hot, right now? That's right. Blaming

56:02

hot. I was surprised you didn't name me. I didn't

56:04

know you, Denjo. There's this guy in Texarkana. And

56:09

then, Christiana, a couple for you that are

56:12

similar. So there was this great movie, Air,

56:14

last year in 2023 that I loved. Obviously,

56:18

those are the early days of Nike,

56:20

but that kind of wheeling and dealing

56:22

thing, is that still Nike lately? There's

56:25

a part of Nike where that's

56:27

constantly needed, and that's definitely sports

56:29

marketing. Because Nike is always looking

56:32

for who that next big

56:34

athlete will be that epitomizes the

56:36

brand that has the value that

56:39

Nike has. And their

56:41

sports marketing agents are out there looking

56:43

for the next Michael Jordan. And

56:46

I'd also say on the sales side,

56:48

Nike is very aggressive about growing the

56:50

brand, but growing it in the right

56:52

way. So there's absolutely those types of

56:54

the brand. But inside Nike,

56:56

I think creativity is equally valued. And

56:59

it's probably one of the most creative places I've

57:01

ever worked, whether you're talking about marketing or you're

57:03

talking about product design. It's

57:05

filled by soul, literally, to be surrounded

57:07

by people that were so idea-driven. And

57:10

the last question for you, of course, about Nike was,

57:12

I think a lot of that is, you know, springs

57:14

from the shoe dog himself, Phil Knight. And

57:17

not only does Ben Affleck enjoy, I think,

57:19

presenting him as a quirky character. I feel

57:21

like everybody's got a Phil Knight story, Christiana,

57:24

about just brilliance and madness.

57:28

Any good Phil Knight stories? Well,

57:32

first of all, I am deeply grateful to

57:34

Mr. Phil Knight for supporting us

57:36

on Career Forward. He actually took the

57:38

time to write the blurb for the book. I

57:40

just am so grateful about that. And it's

57:42

a longer conversation about, again, how you build

57:44

and invest in relationships, because I've known him

57:46

since 1998 as a consultant. He

57:50

was my client. Phil is pretty

57:52

accurately portrayed in the movie, I would

57:54

say. I'm not sure he completely agrees.

57:57

He is an example of a

57:59

CEO. It isn't a big

58:01

slap you on the back extroverted guy and

58:03

I love that because everyone thinks that to

58:05

be CEO you've got to be some big

58:08

outgoing, you know, glad handing

58:11

guy and that is

58:13

not him, right? He's actually

58:15

a pretty introverted personality and like

58:18

a lot of introverts does a lot of thinking in

58:20

recharging of his thoughts on his own.

58:24

It's inspiring to work for someone like that

58:26

because it helps you realize that you don't

58:28

actually have to be some prevailing

58:31

style or model to

58:33

be able to build something as phenomenal

58:35

as Nike Inc. I think,

58:37

man, not just from that but, you

58:39

know, from the book Shoe Dog and

58:42

from other stories, the

58:44

fact that he thinks so deeply about

58:46

so many things I think shows why

58:48

Nike's grown because of his resilience and

58:50

ability. He's an example too of many

58:53

stages in your career because at this

58:55

point now a big focus for

58:57

Phil and his wife Penny is philanthropy and

59:00

the impact that they've had on healthcare

59:02

in the Oregon community and

59:05

now on access to fair

59:07

housing and other things, it's

59:09

staggering, right? He's also a model I think

59:11

for once you've made it, how do you

59:13

turn around and help others? Great,

59:16

and Christiana, thanks for mentoring our stackers today.

59:18

I super appreciate it. It's a pleasure. Thank

59:20

you. Enjoyed it. Thank

59:22

you. This is Darrell from Pennsylvania. When

59:25

I'm not busy arguing with a

59:27

four-year-old, I'm stacking Benjamins. No,

59:30

Daddy. Thanks

59:32

to Grace and Christiana. You

59:34

know, OG, obviously so many of the things

59:36

that they talked about resonated but back

59:39

to this idea of benevolent stagnation

59:41

and I told the story briefly

59:44

if you heard with them but I

59:46

totally remember just the dude in our

59:48

office in Troy, Michigan who we'd

59:50

all ask the hard questions of, hey, do you know

59:52

what the contribution limit is for a Roth IRA for

59:54

whatever? If we need to do a backdoor, how do

59:56

we, you know, if we need to do this for

59:58

our state planning for our climate. How do we

1:00:00

we'd ask him all the tough tough questions and

1:00:04

then one day I found out that

1:00:06

his paycheck Was roughly

1:00:08

half of mine. It isn't about

1:00:10

what you know, I know the feeling Took

1:00:14

the words out of my mouth Oh G This

1:00:16

is really hitting home. It isn't go

1:00:18

on. Tell me more. Tell me more

1:00:20

how you feel badly about that It isn't about what you know,

1:00:22

but I think they hit it right up I mean how many

1:00:24

people do you know that or how many times have you realized

1:00:27

you need to make a change because of this? I'm

1:00:29

just kind of stagnating just kind of sitting

1:00:31

there in my career. Like what am I

1:00:33

what am I doing here? You know, I

1:00:36

think people who are especially susceptible to that

1:00:38

are people earlier in their career who are

1:00:41

Expecting I mean you've really been raised with

1:00:43

your parents and then through the whole school

1:00:45

system that your achievements will get recognized Somebody's

1:00:47

watching them somebody is going to assess them

1:00:50

and say you get an A or you

1:00:52

get a D Some people not

1:00:54

me, you know or your parents

1:00:56

are saying good job, buddy But you get

1:00:58

into the work world and people are

1:01:00

not paying that much attention to you unless

1:01:02

you are on Either end

1:01:04

of the spectrum unless you are to the

1:01:06

absolute superstar or you're really not getting your

1:01:09

objectives taken care of But that's

1:01:11

the small minority of people everybody else

1:01:13

in the middle. Oh G. You've

1:01:15

got to promote yourself You've got

1:01:17

a you've got to figure out how to

1:01:19

not stagnate For lack

1:01:22

of self-promotion It's interesting

1:01:24

that you talk about this at the school

1:01:26

level because I was having this discussion with

1:01:28

my oldest about football He's a

1:01:30

junior gonna be a senior there read doing

1:01:33

some of their football program They're adding some

1:01:35

new staff and he's kind of stressed about

1:01:37

that because it doesn't know the new staff

1:01:39

as well as he knew the old Coaches and

1:01:41

I said, oh don't worry about it Just set

1:01:44

a good example and be in the gym and they'll notice

1:01:46

and he's like they don't though You

1:01:48

have to and he picked it up right away He's

1:01:50

like you have to go you have to be the

1:01:52

loud guy to be the the one that

1:01:54

they go Oh, We should give him playing time.

1:01:57

He's like if you're tied, they're not gonna go with

1:01:59

the guy who. Within the gym the most. they

1:02:01

don't know they'll keep track of that stuff he says. I.

1:02:03

Need to be the leader I need to

1:02:06

like promote myself for his words. You know

1:02:08

around how do I step up so that

1:02:10

not only my notice but I'm a like

1:02:12

making sure everybody notices that I want to

1:02:14

be noticed which is. And what you're talking

1:02:16

about dog. Yeah, I mean we

1:02:18

all love the idea of this pure Meritocracy

1:02:21

where you just. Do. Your job, do

1:02:23

it a little bit better in a

1:02:25

little bit more than what was defined

1:02:27

and your annual objectives. You get noticed

1:02:29

and everybody's happy, but in reality the

1:02:31

people who should be noticing tickets so

1:02:33

much on their plate that they have

1:02:35

to be worried about that. Unless

1:02:37

you really have done something outside of

1:02:39

the normal control parameters, you sold the

1:02:42

two million dollar deal or something like

1:02:44

that or either idea of brand equity

1:02:46

they talked about a dog was so

1:02:48

important and also the idea of the

1:02:50

ability to speak up and meetings. And.

1:02:53

To be able to be a part of the

1:02:55

group is is a skill that we can all

1:02:57

learn and we don't learn the soft skills you

1:02:59

talked about how you know in school. it's a

1:03:01

Meritocracy we get an A begin to be we

1:03:03

get to see we get a d based on

1:03:05

of knowing the material but we get on that

1:03:07

team like oh gee like your son Nagata know

1:03:10

the coach coaches gotta know me and of working

1:03:12

world is much more like that scene in so

1:03:14

many ways. And the good news I think that

1:03:16

they bring to the table that I love to

1:03:18

see you can learn those skills. And

1:03:20

it would always drove me crazy. Where the people

1:03:23

in every organization I've worked with who been like

1:03:25

I don't need to know the skills I don't

1:03:27

I just need know the stuff and you know

1:03:29

what? Those of the people that. But. Never

1:03:31

whitley stagnate, Was

1:03:34

there for a is a good because those

1:03:36

people who say I don't need to know

1:03:38

those skills or Merlot my work speak for

1:03:40

itself. They're often the ones who say i'm

1:03:42

not a kiss ass right? Yeah, you know

1:03:44

that's how it gets characterize because that many

1:03:46

people enjoy to dinner own horn. But.

1:03:49

You've gotta find a way to do with that.

1:03:51

Works for you because. Otherwise, you

1:03:53

in aggregate heard his big stuff and there's

1:03:55

people little even hear this interview from joe

1:03:57

yes i don't think any that think that's

1:03:59

not for me and you just missed out

1:04:02

from two phenomenal mentors right there, if that's

1:04:04

you. What's that? What's that

1:04:06

shining light coming through the window? Oh, somebody

1:04:10

said we better call Saul, C-Hi,

1:04:12

N-O-G, and like the bat signal all

1:04:15

over Gotham, we just got the signal

1:04:17

in the basement window. No?

1:04:20

It's just headlights, dude. Wasn't that the headlight from

1:04:22

Mom's Harley pulling in the driveway? It could

1:04:24

have been either or. It could have been,

1:04:26

but I'm fairly certain that it was a

1:04:28

call for help. If you've got a call,

1:04:31

go to stackybenchments.com/voicemail and we will

1:04:33

help you, but let's see who

1:04:35

needs our help today. I think

1:04:39

it's Stacker Jared. Hey

1:04:43

Doug, Joe, N-O-G, Jared

1:04:45

here. Second time

1:04:47

caller, long time listener. Someone

1:04:50

just presented some information to me about Robin

1:04:53

Hood. Joe, I know you're not a big

1:04:55

fan of Robin Hood, but it almost

1:04:57

sounds too good to be true. So I thought I'd

1:04:59

get your take on it. They

1:05:02

have a gold membership, which is

1:05:04

$5 a month. And

1:05:07

if you pay for that, you

1:05:09

can transfer your IRAs to

1:05:11

Robin Hood and get a

1:05:13

3% match for a limited

1:05:15

time. After that, I believe it goes

1:05:18

to 1%.

1:05:21

What's your take on this? Is this too good to be true?

1:05:24

Let me know. I'm an XL,

1:05:27

working on double XL. I

1:05:31

love this guy. Is Jared telling me that

1:05:34

he's considering being bought by the

1:05:36

evil empire for a couple bucks thrown his way, OG? I

1:05:39

mean, why not? Why not? Less money

1:05:41

for them to have to evil empire

1:05:43

with, right? I don't know. To bid

1:05:45

their evil. Yeah. This is very common

1:05:47

in the investment world. Custodian space. Fidelity

1:05:50

offers a very similar deal. Schwab will

1:05:52

offer a very similar deal. So

1:05:54

pretty common to get some sort of signing

1:05:56

bonus, as it were. Transfer over.

1:06:00

for over $100,000 will give you a

1:06:02

three grand. There's obviously some stipulations with

1:06:04

that. You have to keep the

1:06:06

money for a period of time. You have

1:06:08

to sometimes it's tied to trading. You

1:06:11

move over your $100k, you're going to get this $4,000 bonus

1:06:13

or $3,000 bonus, but you have to do 20

1:06:17

trades in the next 90 days or

1:06:20

they recapture it or something along those lines

1:06:23

potentially. The bonus that they give you, generally

1:06:26

speaking, is not a

1:06:28

contribution to your IRA. So that

1:06:30

money gets deposited into a different account and

1:06:34

that's going to be taxable interest to you. That's how

1:06:36

it's coded on your tax forms. So

1:06:38

interest income is ordinary income.

1:06:41

So it's not free. You're going to pay some taxes

1:06:43

on it. But this is just like, you know,

1:06:46

you get the things in the mail from the bank that say,

1:06:48

hey, set up your direct deposit and we'll give you $300 bucks

1:06:50

or we'll give you $900 if you move

1:06:53

over $20k. You can play this game all day

1:06:55

long. However,

1:06:58

eventually it gets tiresome or

1:07:00

you burn through all of the places. But if

1:07:02

you're, you know, if you're shopping to move somewhere,

1:07:04

it doesn't hurt to ask if

1:07:06

they have any signing bonuses, as it were, to move

1:07:08

your account over, especially if you got some decent money.

1:07:11

My feeling has always been, Jared, that

1:07:13

you are a product of who you surround yourself with.

1:07:16

And to OG's point, if Wells Fargo

1:07:18

said, hey, we'll give you a few

1:07:20

hundred bucks if you open 18 accounts,

1:07:23

you do one application, we'll open 18

1:07:25

accounts for you. Like we

1:07:27

all go, are you kidding me? Why

1:07:29

would I do business with a company that just did

1:07:31

that? That's really what you're asking.

1:07:34

It's the same thing. Bank of America also not

1:07:36

my favorite company because of my relationship with them

1:07:38

in the 90s and how they were

1:07:40

helping me dig my hole faster when I was

1:07:42

digging myself into a horrible

1:07:44

spot. They were handing me shovels. They were handing me

1:07:47

bigger and bigger stuff. Down there, would you like a

1:07:49

backhoe? And

1:07:51

then when I actually needed their help, it was

1:07:53

like, oh, what, what, what, what, what? You

1:07:55

know, and somebody told us the other day, of course, that banks want

1:07:57

to loan a lot of money to people that don't need it. But

1:08:00

anybody that needs anyhow, whoa hey, no, not

1:08:02

our business model. Well they did summarily close

1:08:05

the Stacking Benjamin's bank account a couple years

1:08:07

ago if you recall. For no reason. For

1:08:09

no reason. A letter that just said, we

1:08:11

don't want your business. Like, okay. It

1:08:13

probably has nothing to do with us f***ing talking

1:08:16

to Bank of America the entire time. The

1:08:19

good news is they assured us it wasn't us because

1:08:21

illegally they can't do that. It had to be a

1:08:24

class of people. And the class of people were people

1:08:26

that s***ed talking to Bank of America. Yeah, they can't.

1:08:28

They didn't say what the reason was. My

1:08:34

new business is, Jared, with businesses I

1:08:36

respect. I don't care what the come on

1:08:38

is. There's always a come on. And you know what? That

1:08:40

I'm stuck there. So do your homework on Robinhood. Man, if

1:08:42

you find less than I found about

1:08:45

Robinhood and you find that

1:08:47

if to you all those past transgressions

1:08:49

mean nothing, and that they're

1:08:51

going to be good to you where they haven't been good to people in

1:08:53

the past, well then by all means bring it. Yeah,

1:08:56

I don't think Jared's above this. Look,

1:08:58

he called us just to get a

1:09:00

t-shirt. So I don't – he is

1:09:02

not above taking whatever they're handing out.

1:09:04

That is a good point. That

1:09:07

is a very good point. He's like, whatever. He's

1:09:09

already got the application filled out. Just

1:09:12

wait. So like I said, he could use

1:09:14

it 3% because that's 3% less money that

1:09:16

they can do evil with. There

1:09:18

it is. It's logic. It's about the day,

1:09:20

the day that you're allowed to. And

1:09:23

don't do any trades because they're just going to front run

1:09:25

them, making more money on that that doesn't

1:09:27

make money for you. They're just going to hand

1:09:29

off your trades to other organizations, and you won't

1:09:31

make any money on those either. But not

1:09:34

something – Let's move our money

1:09:36

to Robinhood and get there 3%. I

1:09:39

look past the bonuses. What was funny

1:09:41

was I can tell nobody from Robinhood listens to the show

1:09:43

because you guys know we just got a pitch for

1:09:45

them this week. Ask them

1:09:47

if they can send somebody on the

1:09:49

show. The pitch in the subject line, it

1:09:51

said, defending our honor. No, it did not

1:09:53

say that. Tell me you don't listen to

1:09:56

the show without telling me you don't listen

1:09:58

to the show. Oh, we love

1:10:00

it. love your show. We'd love to have so and

1:10:02

so from our organization. Come on and chat with you

1:10:04

guys. Yeah, I might

1:10:06

not be having thanks for the call Jared.

1:10:09

If you've got a question such

1:10:11

as that one, which is a lot of

1:10:13

fun, we will do what we're gonna do

1:10:15

for Jared here. We're gonna send them in

1:10:18

XL working on x xl

1:10:21

xll xx ll for

1:10:23

being brave and for calling in. It's

1:10:26

a great time by the way, the spring

1:10:28

every year is a great time to call

1:10:30

in because we're traveling and we record a

1:10:32

little bit further ahead. We can get to

1:10:34

your question slightly sooner stack of measurements.com/voicemail. We're

1:10:37

traveling, Joe. We, we,

1:10:39

we me and Cheryl. Am I going somewhere with

1:10:42

you? Me

1:10:44

and me and and yes, neither

1:10:46

of you. Sadly,

1:10:48

because I invited og six times before he

1:10:51

says he wasn't invited. I invited

1:10:53

him over and over and over and over and he just didn't didn't

1:10:55

take it. I don't think I was invited. Yeah. Wow.

1:10:59

Wild. I got lost in the mail. If

1:11:01

you're not worried about just whether you should

1:11:03

take the Robinhood bonus or not, you're worried

1:11:06

that your money's going a different way than

1:11:08

your values. Well, then I think

1:11:10

you want better help. Head

1:11:12

to stack of measurements.com/og because

1:11:14

og and his team are accepting new clients

1:11:16

right now. That means that

1:11:18

if you go to stack of measurements.com/og, you'll get

1:11:20

a link to their calendar that schedules the first

1:11:23

meeting. And that's the first step in

1:11:25

seeing how they can interface with you to

1:11:27

make better decisions in the future. All

1:11:30

right, time to wander out on the back porch. And Doug, we got

1:11:32

a lot to do in a short amount of time here, man. We

1:11:34

do it. You want to continue our discussion

1:11:36

about the show reviews that I started last

1:11:39

week, and then you just summarily cut me

1:11:41

off on. Do we want to talk about

1:11:43

some great reviews that we had left for

1:11:45

us in the basement? How do

1:11:47

you want to proceed here boss man? None of the above.

1:11:49

I think we got to go right to the joke off.

1:11:52

Because we've got a brand new

1:11:54

joke that well in the

1:11:56

next round here that we've got

1:11:58

to shine a light on The number

1:12:01

seven versus number 14 seed to see

1:12:03

who goes to the final four pretty

1:12:06

exciting Karen just

1:12:08

placed this one in the basement so

1:12:10

that people can vote on which one

1:12:13

they want This will round out

1:12:15

our final four right? This is it This

1:12:17

is it you take seven because

1:12:19

you always get the higher seed. All right

1:12:21

to bring it Jeff says What's the difference

1:12:23

between taxes and taxidermy once cruel

1:12:25

and inhumane the other deals with dead animals?

1:12:28

That's a good one. And Jeff headed

1:12:31

right up against Seth who submitted

1:12:33

hear about the constipated mathematician He

1:12:35

worked it out with a pencil. Oh boy So

1:12:39

dead animals versus constipation Which

1:12:43

do you think is funny? potty

1:12:46

humor versus death humor you

1:12:49

can vote on our Facebook page stacky

1:12:51

vegments comm slash Basement

1:12:54

gets you right there Just sign up

1:12:56

we approve you and then

1:12:58

you're in and chatting away with all of

1:13:00

us and some fun stuff We share not

1:13:03

just the joke off but also what everybody's

1:13:05

been reading that week Well, what cool things

1:13:07

our stacker community has been doing we play

1:13:09

some of those on the show Tons

1:13:12

of great post people asking each other great questions that

1:13:14

of course some other dad jokes on top

1:13:16

of these So next week

1:13:18

we begin the final four. Yeah pretty

1:13:20

exciting Doug so

1:13:23

Why don't we set the clock for a minute?

1:13:27

And we'll spend a minute picking up where we left off.

1:13:29

You ready? Yep. I'm ready. Here we

1:13:31

go. So I Watched

1:13:34

rewatched a great documentary called

1:13:36

last breath would strongly recommend

1:13:39

this big thumbs up It

1:13:42

actually uses actual footage of the

1:13:44

event in question. It's

1:13:46

about a profession. You didn't even

1:13:48

know existed It's deep sea divers

1:13:50

who help get oil wells

1:13:52

out and like that You know that the

1:13:54

North Atlantic and in the North

1:13:56

Sea and I mean just horrible horrible places on

1:13:59

this earth Great documentary

1:14:01

highly recommend watched American Symphony

1:14:03

did not love that about

1:14:05

a great musician Jean Baptiste

1:14:07

Love his music an incredibly talented guy

1:14:09

just bored with with that movie American

1:14:12

Symphony. Yes, it's a prize didn't love

1:14:14

it I know it. I thought

1:14:16

I would love it. That's really the same thing about you know,

1:14:18

Leonard Bernstein as well I thought I

1:14:20

would love that but I didn't learn anything about Leonard

1:14:22

Bernstein during that movie Yeah, that

1:14:24

was an excellent point you made about like I think

1:14:26

you were right. You didn't learn About

1:14:29

all you learned about His

1:14:31

quirks. Yeah and weirdness is and maybe that's why

1:14:33

they'd like I could go find out about his

1:14:35

accomplishments anywhere you want We're gonna give you the

1:14:38

backstory on Leonard on Lenny. Maybe that's why they

1:14:40

did that but I understand your point there. All

1:14:42

right Fool

1:14:44

me once Two

1:14:47

thumbs down another ridiculous show. I

1:14:49

think it was Netflix. I

1:14:51

just British show

1:14:53

normally mall into like kind of the

1:14:55

British crime Formula shows love

1:14:57

them, but this one sucked. What's it

1:15:00

about fool me once it's about a woman

1:15:03

whose husband dies and You

1:15:06

think he's dead But maybe he's not

1:15:08

dead and you know just so happens

1:15:10

that she happens to be ex-military and

1:15:12

a helicopter pilot So that's convenient because

1:15:15

then you know They move the plot

1:15:17

along because she'll be up teaching somebody

1:15:19

in her helicopter and spot a car

1:15:22

6,000 feet below her that she wants to follow

1:15:24

so follow the car Yeah, of course just ridiculous

1:15:26

stupid easy easy to pick out a car from

1:15:28

6,000 feet. I know Even

1:15:32

if it was 600 feet the fact that she's just

1:15:34

able to like conveniently be there and then

1:15:36

she goes and lands Well, you know

1:15:38

how people like in high school you put like like

1:15:41

kick me on the back of somebody's

1:15:43

Yeah You

1:15:48

do the same thing on these shows you just hit

1:15:50

a follow me and put it on the top of

1:15:52

somebody's car And she probably saw that right? I'm sure

1:15:55

that was it bad guy this way Right

1:15:57

Cheryl told me that I was hoping you were gonna

1:15:59

say that Apparently David

1:16:01

Tennant has a new crime

1:16:03

series out, which I mean,

1:16:06

if one of the two main actors abroad

1:16:08

church out with another one,

1:16:12

can't wait for that. Promising? Can't wait for that. Yeah, we'll see. But

1:16:14

we're out of time. That's it for today. No, no, no. Full crap.

1:16:18

That is it for today. No way. I'm letting you

1:16:20

– you start talking and it steals away from

1:16:22

my minute. I started talking well after

1:16:24

the minute. We were already at two minutes when I

1:16:26

started talking. I stopped the clock before I started at

1:16:28

1.55. Unbelievable. Well,

1:16:31

there's more. It's exciting. When we do your

1:16:33

reviews – We are slowly releasing the crack

1:16:35

in. We get like three minutes of trailer

1:16:37

that nobody knows because it's just like explosion

1:16:39

noises and symphonic music. We have no idea

1:16:41

what it is. That's the mood. Before we

1:16:44

even start talking about it. That's the mood.

1:16:46

It's wonderful. By the way, we'll

1:16:48

do that soon with Argyle. I just saw

1:16:50

Argyle in the theaters. Great

1:16:52

stuff. Hey, Doug. What should we

1:16:55

have learned today? Okay, fine, OG. I'll

1:16:57

move things along. What's on our to-do

1:16:59

list today? First, take some advice from

1:17:01

Grace and Christiana. Don't wait for someone

1:17:03

else to train you to be great.

1:17:05

Move your career forward by taking control

1:17:07

and building equity. Second, take

1:17:10

some advice from Ed Slott. Get

1:17:12

that rock started. But

1:17:14

what's the biggest to do? I

1:17:18

got to get Joe to add my picture to the Stacking

1:17:20

Benjamin's logo. Then again, that

1:17:22

might make it too sexy. It's

1:17:24

quite a dilemma. Our

1:17:55

producer is Karen Repine. This show

1:17:57

is written by Lisa Curran. who's

1:17:59

also the host of the Long

1:18:02

Story Long podcast with help from

1:18:04

me, Joe, Kate Yelkin, Karen Repine

1:18:06

and Doc Gee from the Earn

1:18:09

and Invest podcast. Kevin

1:18:11

Bailey helps us take a deeper dive into

1:18:13

all the topics covered on each episode in

1:18:15

our newsletter called the 201. You'll

1:18:18

find the 411 on all things money at

1:18:20

the 201. Just

1:18:23

visit stackingbendjemons.com/201. Wonder

1:18:27

how beautiful we all are? Of

1:18:29

course you do, but you'll never know

1:18:31

if you don't check out our YouTube

1:18:34

version of the show, engineered by Tina

1:18:36

Eichenberg. Then you'll see once

1:18:38

and for all that I'm the best thing

1:18:40

going for this podcast. Once

1:18:42

we bottle up all this goodness, we

1:18:45

ship it to our engineer, the amazing

1:18:47

Steve Stewart. Steve helps the rest of

1:18:49

our team sound nearly as good as

1:18:51

I do right now. Want

1:18:54

to chat with friends about the show later? Tom's

1:18:56

friend Gertrude, Stacy Doe and Julia

1:18:59

Garib are our social

1:19:01

media coordinators and Gertrude is

1:19:03

the room mother in our Facebook

1:19:05

group called The Basement. So say

1:19:08

hello when you see us

1:19:10

posting online. To join all the

1:19:12

basement fun with other stackers, type

1:19:15

stackingbendjemons.com/basement. For more interactive fun,

1:19:17

join us on Instagram every Tuesday

1:19:19

and Thursday for our Instagram lives.

1:19:21

Kate Yelkin and Joe host

1:19:23

those weekly. Not only

1:19:26

should you not take advice from these

1:19:28

nerds, don't take advice from people you don't

1:19:30

know. This show is for entertainment

1:19:32

purposes only. Before making any

1:19:35

financial decisions, speak with a real

1:19:37

financial advisor. I'm Joe's

1:19:39

mom's neighbor Doug and we'll see you

1:19:41

next time back here at the Stacking

1:19:43

Benjamin Show.