0:04

Previously on the storyteller Naked Villainy,

0:07

Kit Harrison denies physically assaulting

0:09

Brenda. I

0:11

was never physically violent to Brenda

0:14

Page on any occasion. He

0:18

claims Brenda lied to colleagues just to get

0:20

a divorce. You're

0:22

kind and loving

0:24

and gentle and yet

0:26

you're made out to be a monster. And

0:31

that it was she who was aggressive with him.

0:36

I would say violent and angry

0:38

and I couldn't understand what was

0:40

going on. It's

0:46

taken 45 years to bring a

0:48

killer to court and for

0:50

the first time in UK history you'll

0:53

hear the full murder trial and

0:55

witness justice being done. It

0:58

was a brutal murder of a brilliant

1:00

woman who was a rising

1:02

star in genetic research. It

1:05

would now be almost like a script from Watts. The

1:08

investigators swarming over the dreaming spires

1:10

of the university land. There

1:16

was kind of palpable feeling of

1:18

evil in the air. I

1:21

was told there was some massive blood in here. Two

1:24

decades on from confronting evil. Did

1:28

you kill your ex-wife Brenda Page? Evil

1:31

is being confronted by the law. Did

1:33

you kill her? No. She

1:37

knew it was coming. He said he was

1:39

going to kill her. If he killed her

1:41

he would do it so that nobody would know. Will

1:45

his true nature be unmasked? Are

1:48

you familiar with the tale of

1:50

Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde? And

1:53

can Brenda's own words help secure

1:55

her killer's fate? A letter of

1:57

a death foretold. This

2:00

is the storyteller Naked

2:02

Villainy, written, produced and

2:04

edited by me, Isla Traquear. The

2:10

examination in chief was in full flow

2:12

and Dr. Kit Harrison was providing

2:14

an excuse for everything, many

2:17

complex and detailed, quite

2:20

remarkable considering the passage of time. Would

2:23

you remember where your spouse had been shopping when they caught

2:25

their head on the catch of the car boot, or

2:28

whether a room was sunny before they had a fall?

2:31

And there was a lot more to come, whether

2:33

he was asked about it or not. We'll

2:36

rejoin at the point where Defence KC

2:38

Brian McConaughey moved on to the subject

2:40

of the interim interdict. So

2:45

far as the interdict proceedings were

2:47

concerned, did you defend them in

2:49

any way? I

2:51

didn't. Was

2:53

there a reason for that? I

2:57

thought that just like the

3:00

reasons for getting

3:02

a divorce, in 1978 one had to

3:04

provide reasons for

3:08

a divorce and Brenda Page

3:10

had chosen for cruelty.

3:14

In the case of the interim interdict, she

3:16

was starting a new relationship with a

3:18

new boyfriend and wanted to be left

3:20

completely in peace. Were

3:23

you disturbing her peace in any

3:25

way? Not at all. I was far too

3:27

busy finishing off my thesis. Were

3:30

you turning up at

3:33

her flat at 13 Allen

3:35

Street uninvited? No,

3:38

only when I was asked. She on one

3:40

occasion asked me to look after her cats,

3:42

which I did, and

3:45

on a subsequent occasion, much

3:48

later, she invited me to

3:51

come and have dinner, as we've heard

3:53

from Mrs. Burt.

3:57

And we also had a picnic on the ground. behind

4:00

the house when she invited me to do that.

4:03

We'll come to that in a moment or two. After

4:07

the separation and indeed

4:10

after the divorce, how

4:12

would you describe relations

4:14

between yourself and Brenda?

4:17

Amicable. You've

4:20

already just mentioned certain

4:22

incidents, a picnic,

4:25

where was the picnic? In Allent Street.

4:28

Do you remember when that was, by any chance?

4:35

I think it was probably June of 1978,

4:39

but I'm not completely certain. You

4:42

also mentioned something about dinner. She

4:46

invited me to dinner and I brought

4:48

a bottle of wine to cheer

4:51

her up. And was that

4:53

again at 13 Allent Street? I think so,

4:55

yes. Did

4:59

you attend any conferences

5:01

with Brenda Page? In

5:04

1976, we went

5:07

to an international conference together in

5:09

Mexico City. And

5:11

we had booked that conference in March of

5:13

1976 before we separated. And

5:17

so we went together to the conference

5:19

in Mexico. And

5:21

then at the beginning of 1978, in May of 1978, we

5:27

attended a conference in Vienna, in

5:29

Austria. By

5:31

the time you went to

5:33

the conference in Austria, were

5:36

you already divorced? We

5:39

divorced in October 1977. And

5:43

who did you go to the conference

5:45

in Vienna with? Jesse

5:48

Watts, who was Brenda Page's

5:50

student, and Jesse

5:53

Watts' husband, Mr Milne. And

5:58

what were the arrangements? in

6:00

so far as Vienna was concerned, how were

6:02

they made? Bread

6:04

the Page had asked me in

6:07

advance to book a hotel because

6:09

she knew I was

6:13

acquainted with Vienna and

6:16

knew the language and

6:19

could arrange to find a suitable hotel

6:21

close to where the conference was being

6:23

held. Why were you

6:25

acquainted with Vienna? Because

6:28

I had a gap year

6:30

before going to Cambridge when

6:34

I spent a year learning German

6:36

in Austria. So

6:40

did you make the arrangements for the Austrian

6:42

trip? I did indeed. And

6:45

was that for just yourself and

6:47

Brenda or was that for others as

6:49

well? All four of us. And

6:54

how were relationships or how

6:56

was the relationship during that

6:58

conference? Very friendly.

7:01

We met Dr. Marina

7:03

Seabright. We'd first

7:05

of all met in Mexico City

7:09

two years before and

7:13

she couldn't believe that we were divorced.

7:17

And did you spend time with the people

7:19

who you had gone to Vienna with? Yes,

7:22

we did. There were four official

7:26

excursions to various

7:28

places and

7:30

I asked Brenda Page which, if

7:33

any of the excursions she would like to

7:37

go along with and she

7:40

chose an official

7:43

conference excursion to Myling and the

7:45

Mountains was the title of it.

7:49

And so the conference had

7:51

had a bus which drew

7:53

up in front of the Rathaus in

7:55

Vienna and we took the

7:57

bus from the Rathaus into the mountains. When

8:02

you came back from

8:04

Vienna, how were relationships

8:06

between you and Brenda?

8:08

Entirely amicable. During

8:14

this sort of period, I suppose the

8:16

late spring, early summer of 1978, what

8:18

was the

8:22

position so far as your thesis

8:25

was concerned? I

8:29

had first of all an oral exam,

8:31

that's to say a verbal

8:34

examination with an

8:36

external specialist who came

8:38

up from London and

8:40

with an internal examiner who was

8:43

a Dr. Martin Prestage. I

8:46

needed to buy some very

8:49

uncomfortable walking shoes

8:51

to attend an

8:53

oral examination. And then

8:55

there was an official graduation ceremony

9:00

in the McEwan Hall. When

9:02

was that? And I think

9:04

that was probably

9:07

the middle of June. Of?

9:12

And was that when you became

9:14

Dr. Harrison? Yes. Note

9:16

the mention of him buying uncomfortable

9:18

walking shoes. Nothing more is

9:21

said about them at this point. But no

9:23

doubt the inference was this is why he

9:25

bought new shoes in Edinburgh the morning after

9:27

the murder. But why would

9:29

anyone have to buy uncomfortable walking

9:31

shoes to attend an oral

9:34

examination? And

9:36

so far as your thesis was concerned,

9:38

what was it in? What did it

9:40

involve? The

9:42

fibrous proteins of nervous tissue. And

9:48

was there any connection between that

9:50

and any work that Brenda Page

9:52

did? None whatsoever. You

9:56

may have heard I think yesterday

9:58

in the course. of the interview

10:01

that was carried out with you

10:03

by the police in 2020, that

10:05

there was some suggestion put to

10:08

you that you had

10:10

indicated that Brenda had stolen

10:12

your research. What

10:15

happened was that while Brenda was looking after

10:18

my house while I was away, she

10:20

fed the chickens in the back garden and

10:22

looked after the cat. And

10:25

on one occasion she took with her

10:28

a test tube rack full of polyacrylamide

10:31

gels which were used for

10:33

measuring atomic weights of very

10:36

high molecular weight proteins. And

10:42

what's the connection between that and what was suggested to

10:44

you by the police that she had somehow

10:47

taken credit for your research, I think

10:49

might have been the phrase that was

10:53

used. That may be something completely different.

10:56

With Brenda Page together before the

10:58

conference in the International

11:01

Congress of Genetics in

11:04

Mexico, I

11:06

published a paper in

11:08

Nature about an alkaloid

11:10

in Mexican cactuses which

11:13

would provide an

11:17

alkaloid which was extremely cheap and

11:20

ideal for making chromosome preparations

11:23

and if it had been used

11:25

widely in the United Kingdom

11:27

it would have saved the NHS £4m a year. An

11:33

alkaloid in Mexican cacti ideal

11:36

for making chromosome preparations which

11:38

could have saved the NHS millions of

11:40

pounds. His case literally ignores

11:43

the fact he's just said that and

11:45

steers them straight back to the relevant

11:47

questioning. Let's

11:49

take a quick breather from the courtroom, because I want to

11:51

check in with you all. And

11:53

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12:46

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that's better help.

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dot com slash storyteller now let's

13:55

return to the korean did did

13:58

you ever accuse brenda on stealing

14:00

your research or taking credit for your

14:02

research or anything of that nature? Never.

14:07

I simply knew that she had taken the

14:09

test tube rack of polyacrylamide

14:12

gels and the test tube rack when

14:14

I went to pay her a visit

14:16

and say what's happened to the rack

14:18

of polyacrylamide gels, that was the test

14:20

tube rack on the side of her

14:23

laboratory bench, but there were

14:25

no polyacrylamide gels. And

14:27

did that cause a problem between you and her? No,

14:30

I just asked her what did you do

14:33

with the polyacrylamide gels? Now,

14:39

in the time

14:41

after your separation, did

14:44

you become aware of the fact

14:47

that Brenda Page had joined an

14:49

escort agency? She

14:51

told me that she had joined an

14:53

escort agency, but after

14:56

her divorce she was entirely free to do whatever

14:59

she liked. Was

15:01

that something which concerned

15:04

you? It concerned

15:06

me slightly. I thought that as

15:09

a well-paid university lecturer that

15:11

it wasn't a good thing to

15:14

be leading a double life, as

15:16

somebody who in the evenings

15:18

worked for an escort agency. Did

15:22

you have any concerns about her welfare?

15:25

I was deeply concerned

15:28

about her welfare because

15:30

it's not a business

15:33

which you can remain

15:35

healthy in. What

15:37

do you mean by that? The

15:40

risks of contracting some unpleasant

15:42

disease are relatively high. the

16:00

globe. Pay close attention to

16:02

the mention of a green bag in

16:04

this next section. It's

16:06

never mentioned in the trial, apart

16:09

from by Kitt himself. He

16:11

describes it and where he got it from. You'll

16:14

hear more about this in the extra

16:16

content and a huge investigation

16:18

along the train line from Stonehaven to

16:20

Edinburgh. In the

16:24

period in the

16:26

middle of July 1978, did you

16:29

meet Brenda Page in the week leading up

16:37

to her death? I was returning

16:40

during the week after my graduation,

16:42

a whole series of

16:44

books to different libraries. And

16:48

I went with a green Harvard book

16:50

bag to the library

16:52

at Forrester Hill to return books.

16:55

And I met Brenda Page in the

16:58

car park and she said, oh, hello, congratulations

17:01

on your graduation. I'm

17:04

in a bit of a pickle because I need to

17:06

go and collect my car from the Holland

17:09

Street garage, but I haven't got

17:11

any transport. So I said to her, pop

17:14

into my car and we'll drive to

17:16

the Holland garage and I'll drop you

17:18

there. And did you do

17:20

that? I did indeed. At

17:22

that point in time, do you know what

17:24

day of the week that was or what date it

17:27

was? It's

17:29

difficult. I believe that that must

17:31

have been round about

17:34

the 11th of July, something like

17:38

that was either the Monday or

17:41

the Tuesday of that week.

17:43

I think it was the Tuesday. And

17:46

when you took her to the

17:48

garage to collect her car, what

17:51

car were you driving? I

17:54

was driving my green mini estate

17:56

car. And is

17:58

that the one we've seen the photo? black and

18:00

white photographs. It is. And

18:04

when you went to the garage did you drive there

18:06

or did she drive there? I

18:08

drove there. And when

18:10

you got there what happened? I

18:13

simply opened

18:16

the car door she got out and

18:19

I drove on. Was

18:21

there any discussion at that point about

18:24

meeting up again that week?

18:27

Yes when we met in car park she'd

18:29

said you're looking a bit scruffy

18:32

if you come round to Allen Street I'll

18:34

give you a haircut. And

18:38

did you do that? I did the

18:40

following day that was the 12th of July. What

18:45

happened then on the 12th of July?

18:49

I thought just as a thank you for

18:52

the haircut I would bring around the

18:54

fish supper so I took one portion

18:56

of fish and

18:58

one mealy pardon and knocked

19:00

at the door in Allen Street. Did

19:04

you get into the property? After

19:06

leaving me standing in the hall for about

19:08

five minutes Brenda opened the door and let

19:11

me in. What

19:13

happened when you went in? We

19:17

put the fish supper

19:19

into the oven to warm up again and she

19:21

gave me a haircut. How

19:24

was that done? I'm

19:28

sorry I didn't hear that. No it's my fault.

19:30

How was that done the haircut? How did you

19:32

go? How did she go about that? She put

19:34

a towel down on the floor and put a

19:36

chair on the middle of the towel and then

19:38

put a towel around my neck, washed

19:41

my hair in the sink

19:43

of the kitchen and

19:45

then gave me a half

19:48

blow dry and then cut my hair

19:50

wet. You

19:53

maybe have already answered the question by the way you've

19:55

described this but which room of the house was this

19:57

in? The kitchen. And I

19:59

think we saw photographs at one point which

20:01

showed what seemed to be a kind of

20:04

kitchen come living room. Is that? That's

20:06

right. I'm

20:12

going to pause here a second. In

20:15

that last section he claimed Brenda was in

20:17

his car, possibly justifying transference of

20:19

the paint flake. He gave

20:21

a reason for going to Brenda's on July 12th,

20:23

including the detail of waiting for five minutes to

20:25

be let in, taking one fish

20:27

supper and a Milly Pudding,

20:30

and that's a traditional Scottish oat based

20:32

sly dish, and apparently having his

20:34

haircut. I couldn't help but

20:36

wonder if the story of the haircut was

20:39

a lie thought up by him in anticipation

20:41

of the potential of her belonging

20:43

to him being found at the scene. I

20:45

can't think of a better explanation. But

20:48

here wasn't found or detected at the

20:50

time, and if he had

20:52

had his haircut on a towel in

20:55

her kitchen, you'd expect there to

20:57

be hair found by the forensic team. Would

21:00

she have had time to wash a hair covered towel?

21:03

Would hair have been found in her bin? A source

21:06

close to Brenda told me they didn't believe she

21:08

was the type of person to offer at home

21:10

haircuts. After the

21:12

haircut what happened? I

21:15

simply, we had the fish

21:17

supper which by that time had worn

21:19

through, and after eating the

21:21

fish supper I left

21:23

her flat and drove home. And

21:27

you said, I think, that you believe

21:29

this was the 12th of July? Yes. Did

21:33

you see her again after that? No. On

21:38

the evening of

21:41

the 13th of July into the early hours

21:43

of the morning of the 14th of July,

21:47

where were you? On

21:49

the evening of the 13th of July I'd

21:52

been down to Marshall, drove down to

21:54

Marshall College in the evening in my

21:56

green mini to see if there

21:59

was any post. had arrived with the

22:01

SACRIST who looked after

22:03

Miss Alaines' post in

22:05

the cubicle just

22:08

under the arch of the opening of

22:11

Marshall College as it then was. Any

22:15

idea what time that was? Around

22:18

about eight o'clock in the evening.

22:22

Where did you go after that? I

22:24

didn't find the SACRIST and I thought, oh dear, I'll

22:26

come back then in an hour and I went

22:29

to the cinema complex on

22:33

Union Street and watched

22:35

a dreadful film for an hour and then came out

22:37

and visited the

22:39

SACRIST's office and there was still nobody

22:41

there so I drove home. Home

22:46

at that time was twelve mile in place? It was.

22:49

And where did you park your car? I

22:52

parked the car in front of my

22:54

house but that was at a later

22:56

time than Mr. Hutchins said

22:59

that there was no car parked in front of the

23:01

house. What

23:04

time would it be that you parked your car? Around

23:07

about half past ten. And

23:11

where were you for the rest of the evening? At

23:13

home. I needed to get

23:15

an early train the following day to

23:18

return books to Edinburgh University and

23:20

so I set my alarm

23:22

clock for five o'clock in the morning and

23:25

went to bed. What

23:28

was the train you were to get?

23:30

The first train usually left around about

23:32

six o'clock in the morning. And

23:35

that was a train from Aberdeen? It was. Going

23:37

to? Going to Edinburgh.

23:41

And the purpose of your journey to

23:43

Edinburgh? Was to return books to the

23:45

library. And

23:47

which library was that? The medical

23:49

library in Teviot Place. And

23:54

on the 14th of July what did you do?

23:58

I got a shot. because

24:01

the alarm clock had stopped

24:04

and it had stopped with the

24:06

pointer saying five o'clock and

24:09

I thought I'd missed the train so I jumped

24:12

out of bed and got into

24:15

my car and I thought

24:17

well if I can't catch it at Aberdeen

24:19

I'll catch it at Stonehaven so I drove

24:21

down to Stonehaven. So

24:24

the car that you drove to Stonehaven is

24:27

again the green minis. Yes, yes.

24:30

And did you arrive

24:32

at Stonehaven? I did and there I

24:35

got onto the platform and to my

24:37

astonishment the clock instead of saying

24:39

six o'clock was still pointing to five o'clock.

24:43

So what was the situation then so

24:45

far as the timing was concerned? There

24:47

was nobody to sell tickets and the

24:49

only ticket you could get was through

24:51

a ticket

24:54

vending machine a day

24:56

return to Dundee which I

24:58

bought. Did

25:01

you eventually get the train? I

25:03

did indeed the six o'clock train I

25:05

caught and then at Dundee I

25:07

asked the guard what's the best thing to

25:10

do? Shall I pay an excess and

25:12

he said pay that when I arrive

25:15

at Haymarket. Did

25:17

you continue with the train to Haymarket

25:19

in Edinburgh? I did. I continued to

25:21

Haymarket. And what did

25:23

you do when you got to Edinburgh? That

25:27

was the first time that I'd actually

25:29

been relatively free

25:32

to do anything like getting

25:35

necessary things

25:37

for the house and for

25:40

the pets and it was exceedingly

25:42

hard to find grit for chickens.

25:44

So I bought some grit for

25:46

chickens, I bought a pair

25:48

of shoes and the watch

25:51

that I had broken falling

25:53

down the stairs in the Forest

25:55

Hill property

25:58

when I was doing so. experiments with

26:01

Brenda Page in 1974,

26:04

I smashed a watch and I smashed

26:06

my hand which needed surgery so

26:09

as not of course a dangerous leakage

26:11

on the front stairs of the Forest

26:13

Hill complex. Pausing

26:18

again, it seems inconceivable

26:20

that he couldn't get pet

26:22

supplies in the north-easter Scotland,

26:24

an agricultural area, and

26:26

could only find grit for his chickens

26:29

in cosmopolitan Edinburgh. Shoes

26:31

and watches were available to buy in Aberdeen.

26:34

He's gone from denying anything about a watch

26:36

strap to claiming he broke his watch four

26:38

years before the murder, which

26:40

involved a surgery and yet

26:43

he couldn't recall that incident during the police

26:45

interview. And of course if he

26:47

fell while wearing the watch and smashed his hand

26:49

as he claimed, that would explain

26:51

the presence of blood on the strap. As

26:54

I've said before, I don't normally pass comment.

26:57

I do want you to be in the shoes

26:59

of the jury but this is so fantastical and

27:02

loaded with explanations for everything. I

27:05

have to acknowledge it. You

27:07

said this was the first opportunity you'd

27:09

had for some time. What was the

27:11

reason why this was the first opportunity?

27:14

Finishing off my doctoral thesis. I'd been

27:16

doing nothing but doctoral thesis for about

27:18

two years. So

27:21

when you got to Edinburgh,

27:25

did you return your books? I

27:27

did. I walked across

27:30

the meadows and

27:32

came into the medical

27:35

complex at Tv place, went straight

27:37

to the library and returned my

27:39

books. After

27:42

you had done your jobs,

27:44

if you like, for that

27:46

particular day, where did you

27:48

go then? I went to Chamber

27:50

Street to the Edinburgh Faculty Club and

27:52

had lunch there. Then

27:55

I got to train back to Aberdeen at around

27:58

about three o'clock in the afternoon. What

28:00

time did you get back to Aberdeen? I

28:03

think around about... Takes

28:06

about three hours, so it would be around about

28:08

six o'clock in the evening. Maybe

28:10

that wasn't a very good question. Did you go

28:12

back to Aberdeen or did you go to Stonehaven?

28:14

No, I went to Stonehaven. I caught the Aberdeen

28:17

train, but got out of Stonehaven because my car

28:19

was parked in Stonehaven. And

28:21

did you then drive your car back to Aberdeen?

28:23

I did. Whereabouts in Aberdeen

28:25

did you drive your car back to? My

28:28

land place. When

28:30

you got to my land place, what was

28:32

the situation there? There

28:35

were police waiting there who

28:38

said, can we come in a moment? And so

28:40

I took them in. And

28:42

they said, we've got some very bad news for you. Brenda

28:46

Page has been found dead. Do

28:49

you remember what your reaction was? I

28:52

was extremely shocked. And I said, oh,

28:54

my Lord, I'm dreadful. Did

28:59

they tell you why they

29:01

were there to speak to you? Soon

29:07

after that, they said,

29:09

we're taking you down to Queen

29:12

Street to ask you some questions. And

29:14

I think we had evidence from

29:16

one of the officers who was there who

29:19

said at that point that they cautioned you.

29:22

They did. Did

29:24

you say anything else to them about

29:27

Brenda Page and about the circumstances of

29:29

her death? If they

29:31

were taking me down to Queen Street to question

29:34

me, I'd

29:37

left the animals in the house, which

29:39

hadn't had any food in the entire

29:41

day. So I said, please, man, feed

29:43

the chickens and give the

29:45

cats some food. And

29:48

were you allowed to do that? I was

29:50

allowed to feed the chickens. I'm not sure about the cat.

29:54

And then did they take you to Aberdeen? They

29:56

did. At That time,

29:58

back in 1970, The empty

30:00

he were you allowed access

30:02

to a source? don't know.

30:05

I wasn't. In

30:07

relation to. Some. Of

30:09

the. The evidence

30:11

in this case I I I

30:14

want to ask you some specific

30:16

about some specific matos. Ladies

30:19

and gentlemen have evidence

30:21

from a lady called

30:23

Elsa Christie. Who

30:26

told them that? I see,

30:28

if I recall correctly, the

30:31

night before Brenda was found

30:33

dead, that you had telephoned

30:36

Elsa Christie Until til You're

30:38

Going To Kill Brenda Completely

30:41

untrue The only telephone pole

30:43

I had. In

30:46

Nineteen Seventy Eight with else

30:48

interest he was in January

30:50

and said was six months

30:52

and previously. Of

30:54

what was that telephone call about? Brenda

30:58

Page had taken her new

31:00

boyfriend first footing and had

31:03

visited relations of mine in

31:05

Morningside. And.

31:08

I rang else aggressive to asked her had

31:11

Brenda Page been with a new boyfriend first

31:13

footing with her as well. What

31:16

the five are you interested in? that? Ah,

31:19

I was rather upset because I didn't

31:21

think it necessary some rent bank to

31:23

take a new boyfriend to visit my

31:26

relations. So

31:28

far as the new boyfriend was can

31:30

either at the time or subsequently did

31:32

you discover who that was? No. Brenda

31:36

Page called him out on

31:38

my boyfriend in Edinburgh. Be

31:41

didn't know who he was, no idea who he

31:43

was. I wasn't ready. Very interested. did

31:46

you have any conversation with

31:48

l sixty whether it be

31:50

in july or january or

31:52

any other time when you

31:54

threaten to kill brenda know

31:57

certain enough Was

32:01

there an occasion when

32:03

you contacted Sarah

32:05

McIntyre with

32:08

a view to asking her to

32:11

contact Brenda? I

32:14

think there was. But after

32:17

I'd been served with an interim interdict,

32:19

I was not allowed to make

32:23

telephone calls to Brenda Page directly.

32:26

So I asked Sally McIntyre

32:28

whether she could do that for me

32:31

and asked Brenda if she could possibly

32:33

talk to me for a minute or two.

32:37

Do you know what that was about? I

32:43

think that it was something to do

32:45

with my graduation. Me again.

32:48

So he wasn't interested in her new boyfriend. They

32:51

were divorced and living separate lives and yet

32:53

he phoned Elsa Christie to ask if Brenda

32:55

and her new man had first footed, which

32:58

is a New Year tradition in Scotland of visiting

33:00

friends often with a gift. Again

33:03

he's contradicting himself. You spoke earlier

33:05

on about the fact that there

33:07

was an occasion when Brenda

33:11

had asked you to feed

33:13

her cats. Or cat. Yes.

33:17

Do you remember when that was? I

33:20

believe that that was probably just

33:24

after we'd been

33:26

in Vienna and she

33:28

was wanting to go on holiday with relations

33:33

and asked me if I could feed the

33:35

cats in Alan's trees. How

33:38

were you to gain access to the house? She

33:40

gave me a key. What

33:42

did you do with that key once you had

33:45

done what you were asked to do? I put

33:47

it in an envelope and left it in

33:50

Alan's trees. Did

33:52

you ever gain access to the house

33:55

at 13 Alan's Street

33:58

without Brenda? render pages

34:00

knowledge? No, never. Did

34:04

you ever either

34:06

retain or obtain

34:08

a key for that property? No,

34:10

I didn't. Did

34:14

you ever climb in the window

34:16

at the back of the property? No,

34:18

I didn't. Did

34:20

you ever look through her papers

34:23

when she wasn't there? Certainly not.

34:26

Indeed, did you ever look through her papers when

34:28

she was there? No. Apart

34:32

from the occasion when you

34:34

were in the house to feed the

34:36

cats, were you ever

34:38

in 13 Allen Street when Brenda

34:41

Page was not present? No. On

34:52

the evening of

34:54

the 13th of July 1978,

35:01

or was your car at the Three

35:03

Tops Hotel? No. It

35:06

was not a place that you frequented?

35:09

I didn't know where Brenda Page worked. I

35:11

never asked about that. I was never at

35:14

the Three Tops Hotel. I

35:16

didn't even know about the Three Tops

35:18

Hotel until it closed a few months

35:20

ago. Sorry, until it closed? Until

35:23

a few months ago this year, it closed

35:25

and that was the first time that I'd

35:27

ever heard of the Three Tops Hotel. No.

35:33

After Brenda

35:36

Page left 12 Mile

35:38

End Place and

35:41

moved to the property at

35:43

Allen Street, were

35:45

you and she continuing

35:47

to be intimate? No.

35:51

We weren't intimate on any occasion

35:53

after she had left the

35:55

property in 1976 and we were separated And

35:59

then off. After the divorce to

36:01

can never. So.

36:04

You've told us that the

36:06

date of the separation was

36:09

the twentieth of June. Nineteen

36:11

Seventy Six. Not collect. That's

36:13

great. So at any time

36:15

is up to the twentieth

36:17

of June. Nineteen Seventy Six

36:19

Did you have Mater Total

36:21

Asians with Brenda Pitch? I

36:23

did not either Up Your

36:25

house or Art Up Fifteen.

36:28

All and strict, neither one

36:30

nor the other. The

36:33

ladies and gentlemen have

36:35

have the about the

36:38

fact that spam belonging

36:40

to you potentially was

36:42

find on bedding Accepting

36:45

Allen Strict. Europe.

36:48

Remember that evidence. Friend

36:51

a page had a large quantity

36:53

of Lenin given to her by

36:55

her mother was a housekeeper it

36:57

Odell and during the time that

36:59

we're trying to have a baby

37:02

we heard. Marital

37:04

relations on on a variety

37:06

is sheets and if you

37:09

have a large number of

37:11

hits and a large number

37:14

of duvet covers. Say

37:17

they're more than fifty. Sheets are not going

37:19

to be washed in a. Short

37:22

space of time, Normally

37:24

speaking, kids are on a bed.

37:27

For a maximum of two two weeks

37:29

at a time. So if you have

37:31

fifty shades, it probably take two years

37:33

for who was a set of sheets

37:35

the second time. And

37:40

it was. The explanation free

37:42

spending on see a bizarre explanation

37:45

and one he was going to

37:47

be honest. Many more questions about.

37:53

In the next episode of the

37:55

storyteller, naked Villainy claims like it

37:57

service from those onto the seats.

37:59

At the murders. Marital relations

38:01

prior to 1976. A

38:07

letter from Brenda sparked by jealousy.

38:10

Brenda Page wrote

38:12

me a poisonous letter saying that she

38:14

never wanted to see me again and

38:16

she felt terribly badly treated. And

38:21

a Crown Compares kit to Dr

38:24

Jekyll and Mr Hyde. That

38:26

description sums you up very

38:29

well doesn't it? Not at all. This

38:57

is a piece of history and

38:59

you are for the first time in

39:01

this format witnessing justice being done.