0:00

Rather, Than. From.

0:03

Know. This is episode

0:06

three hundred and fifty six

0:08

with multiple time Kona Iron

0:10

Man Qualifier coach, physical therapist

0:12

and author Chris Johnson. Welcome

0:23

to the Strength Running Podcast I'm

0:25

your Host Coach Jason Fitzgerald In

0:27

my singular goal is to help

0:30

you improve your running by getting

0:32

stronger, racing faster, preventing more injuries,

0:34

in achieving more of your goals.

0:36

I'm a former cross country and

0:38

track and field athlete for Connecticut

0:40

College, a columnist for Trail Runner

0:42

Magazine. A to Thirty Nine Marathon

0:44

are and at one time a

0:46

proud steeplechase are. You. Can learn

0:48

more about me and strength Running at

0:51

Strength running.com. And. I could not

0:53

continue this show without the support of

0:55

our partners. I hope you'll take advantage

0:57

of the discounts that they're offering. We're.

0:59

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3:46

therapist and thought leader, Chris Johnson

3:48

is an author, coach, speaker in

3:50

entrepreneur who helps runners and triathletes

3:52

perform better and stay healthy. Just

3:54

last year I took a workshop

3:57

on running injuries led by Chris

3:59

as well. The Judiciary has also

4:01

been here on the podcast

4:03

Chris. His knowledge about movement,

4:05

running form, and how to build

4:08

injury resilience is world class and

4:10

today we're talking specifically about

4:12

arguably the most important aspects

4:14

of your running for. The.

4:16

Mid Stance: This is when your body

4:18

weight is being fully supported on just

4:21

one leg. If you have any kind

4:23

of weaknesses, imbalances, or poor movement patterns,

4:25

this is the part of the gate

4:28

cycle that's going to show it. We're.

4:30

Going to talk a lot more about

4:32

what happens during this part of your

4:35

stride: how to strengthen the supporting muscles.

4:37

Common problems with runners who don't have

4:39

good need. stance his movements, snacks and

4:42

more. By. The Way: if

4:44

you're interested in running for

4:46

download my three favorite form Queues

4:48

at Strength running.com/cues I'll show

4:50

you how to use simple

4:52

verbal cues to tighten up your

4:55

form, become more efficient, and

4:57

improve your technique. And

4:59

now without further delay, please enjoy

5:01

my conversation with Chris Johnson. So.

5:04

Chris Johnson Returns are. It has been

5:06

actually a little over four years since

5:08

the last time you're on the podcast,

5:10

so I it's it's. been a little

5:13

bit late getting you back on, but

5:15

you know what? We. Did get to

5:17

spend some time. Almost. A

5:19

year ago together at your workshop in Boulder

5:21

refining the running rehab journey so it was

5:23

very nice to see you their life

5:25

for see you have me back on and

5:28

Jan I appreciate you taking that course. that

5:30

was our that was a sign group

5:32

and Dad build was nice enough to open

5:34

their doors and I think everyone came away

5:37

and having learned a bunch and. Yeah.

5:40

Upbeat experience and you know what?

5:42

I just had Cielo attendee Massey

5:44

Silver on the podcast last week,

5:46

so thanks for bringing good people

5:48

together. That was fun! Europe, Europe

5:50

The good work man. You're busy.

5:52

You're busy dude. Yeah, well, I'm

5:54

I'm sure you were laughing at

5:56

me. a little bed at your

5:58

workshop. Being the only running coach

6:00

to the if I think there

6:02

were twenty nine physical therapists, one

6:04

chiropractor, And. Then me the running

6:06

coach so you're probably giggling in the

6:08

corner as as a lot of the

6:10

technical stuff flew over my head. Ah

6:12

but it was. It was really great.

6:14

Has to kind of be in our

6:16

world for a couple days and and

6:18

really immerse myself. Well I applaud you

6:20

for for putting yourself out there. I

6:22

think that course has a lot more

6:24

salient state to coaches and people realize.

6:27

Especially when Jan I teach us because

6:29

we serve work across injury to perform

6:31

it's spectrum. And we interact with

6:33

a lot of coaches and even do some coaching

6:36

ourselves. On. More. Than

6:38

people probably realize Sell know I I hope

6:40

you came away with a wealth of information.

6:44

But. Yeah, we enjoyed having Yeah and you

6:46

know what? we're gonna talk a little bit

6:48

more about some the things I came away

6:50

from when we talk a little bit more

6:52

about. Movements. Snacks later in

6:54

the podcast. But you know first Chris

6:56

let me to say like you are

6:58

to such an absolute wealth of knowledge

7:00

on. Movements. How to

7:03

build injury Resilience performance. Ah, but there

7:05

is a topic that I read. would

7:07

really love to go into more detail

7:09

with you on today because it does

7:11

seem just to be getting a lot

7:13

more airtime lately. And that is the

7:15

importance of being strong in mid stance.

7:18

So. When. We start maybe

7:20

he can. You give us just a

7:22

basic definition of what mid stance is

7:24

and how it fits into the entire

7:26

Keith cycle. Yes on yeah

7:29

yeah, it's funny. I was talking

7:31

the judiciary last night and he

7:33

wrote a paper in two thousand

7:35

and ten and I would encourage

7:37

any of your listeners to to

7:40

kick out the speed talking from

7:42

labs, the clinic and understanding on

7:44

the gate, walking and running. So

7:47

I think the easiest way to break

7:49

this down is. On there

7:51

is wait acceptance which is initial

7:53

contact and the loading response and

7:56

and single and support which is

7:58

what will be focusing on as

8:00

if we're talking about mid stance.

8:03

On which is made stance terminal swing

8:05

in pre swing. And

8:07

then limit batsman. And

8:10

it I'm actually glad that we're getting

8:12

on this topic because I I I

8:14

tell Molson birth. Clinicians, Coaches

8:17

runners that I work with it

8:19

he out with distance running. It's

8:21

generally a stance says problem. Crates,

8:24

I think that's really important. Sprinting

8:26

different beast will see a lot

8:29

of hamstring tears are strains on

8:31

it. Terminal sway so but with

8:33

distance running and just focus so

8:35

much of my time energy from

8:37

a rehab standpoint and helping people

8:39

to prepare for the performance demands

8:42

in the forces associated with staff

8:44

especially mid stance collapse on the

8:46

forces or greatest. A little

8:48

do with a sound but I was talking

8:50

not with Jay last night and we got

8:52

on this topic. yeah because I glanced at

8:54

the questions you ask me if I looked

8:56

at the classes I said no but I

8:58

like when I glance said i saw the

9:00

term mid stance and.h I S J for

9:03

a sound bite he said. Put. Your

9:05

attention where the axe and happens.

9:08

Now. And. That's.

9:10

That's why do we put such an emphasis

9:12

on made sense? So. That's where the

9:14

action happens. What is the action? Why

9:17

is this phase of the gate cycle

9:19

so important? Why are we focusing on?

9:21

it's so much. He did mention that.

9:24

Ah forces are at their highest at this

9:26

phase of the cycle. Media can talk a

9:28

little bit about. Like. What's happening

9:31

during mid stance? Which

9:33

is giving us this cause for our

9:35

focus on and. Yes, I

9:37

think it would be helpful to backpedal

9:39

little bit because I think sit. In

9:42

terms of the research that we got a little

9:44

bit distracted. Not to say that. Some.

9:47

Of this research doesn't have salient spit

9:49

if we think of the vertical ground

9:51

reaction force. and if you just type

9:53

that term and and pull up images

9:55

online, you'll see exactly what I'm talking

9:58

about, so on. but it looks. The

10:00

chef net. I'll. Guess

10:02

so. Yeah, I read

10:04

Davis and Daniel Lieberman homosexual

10:06

men. Mcdaniel Lieberman used to

10:08

talk a lot about he

10:11

out the the impact peak

10:13

in loading rate and that

10:15

was sort of the thought

10:17

of that. Seth Smith. And

10:20

in a city I think that was a little

10:22

bit of a distraction hindsight because. People

10:25

would say all of you see this

10:28

bombed the neon. Maybe that's a problem.

10:30

We see this and rear foot strikers.

10:32

It seems to be absent in mid

10:34

the fourth with strikers but there are

10:37

things that you can do. I could

10:39

show you how to eliminate that in

10:41

the initial impact, be on through a

10:43

rear foot strike just by quieting my

10:46

foot down. Cadence can iron in path

10:48

that but it's really odd. The the

10:50

second piece for the fact is peak

10:52

where the forces or greatest rates were.

10:55

Were having to deal with two point

10:57

five times body weight on average in

10:59

that seems that some be a function

11:01

of which tissues we're looking at as

11:03

well as running speed. by his. that's

11:05

where the forces or greatest. That's where

11:08

we should be really concentrating or efforts

11:10

and making sure that these tissues have

11:12

the capacity and that we also respect

11:14

the rhythm and timing associate with that.

11:16

So. Ah, Yes, So

11:18

if you look at a lot of the exercises

11:20

that I post, you'll see that. They.

11:23

Often reflect where we are in mid

11:25

stand. So he of you, you look

11:27

at Sydney, you're at roughly twenty to

11:29

forty five degrees. Let's just say about

11:31

like thirty degrees of nice selection. On

11:34

your also be an ankle dorsa

11:36

flexion. So. Yeah.

11:39

Hopefully that paints a picture little bit. With.

11:41

Seems very important because you're dealing

11:43

with the highest forces that you're

11:46

going to experience when you're out

11:48

there running and. If

11:50

you can't handle were manage

11:52

those forces well at their

11:54

peak. There's. Obviously going to be

11:56

some breakdown in your form. What are

11:58

some of the typical. Problems

12:00

or examples of breakdown or inefficient

12:02

movement patterns however you might term

12:04

that's how at what? What are

12:07

some of the common things that

12:09

you see if someone has an

12:11

issue with their midst dance? if

12:13

things aren't working properly. Yeah,

12:15

I mean you may see

12:17

a stiffening strategy is a

12:19

knee on. You may see

12:21

poor control of. Several.

12:23

Rotation on. I

12:26

think the you can also

12:28

see some average mechanics is

12:30

the lumber pelvic his complex

12:32

on. Those. Are the main

12:34

things it the jump out at me

12:37

if I'm doing a running gait analysis

12:39

or if I'm just taking some through

12:41

a battery. Physical performance tests. And

12:44

I I think people. Yell. Obviously

12:46

when we talk about stance the glue

12:48

made invariably comes out so he can.

12:50

We can get into that, but those

12:53

are the main things. That.

12:55

I see in terms of

12:57

problems with. with

12:59

mid stance. Is It seems to

13:02

me that when a runner is engaged

13:04

in mid stance. Most.

13:06

Of their. Leg musculature,

13:08

especially in the upper leg, is

13:11

engaged and so it's really a

13:13

test of how well all of

13:16

your muscles are working. Together.

13:18

In concert with one another to

13:20

support your body through this high

13:22

load hi force part of the

13:24

cycle. So in my mind's a

13:26

walk Go wrong in this scenario

13:28

and and some of the problems

13:30

that you've described you know can

13:32

lead to some things. I think

13:34

runners are a little bit more

13:36

familiar with you. Ninety every runners

13:38

heard of Hip Drop were maybe

13:40

the glue need isn't fully engaged

13:42

and and the hip is sagging

13:44

in that needs dance position instead

13:46

of being fully supported. You

13:50

know, in In. I'm glad you brought up

13:52

the glue need because this is something that.

13:55

Is. Often one of you know

13:57

every runners biggest problem areas it

13:59

seems like is often just not

14:01

doing his job properly. Potentially maybe

14:03

because of our sedentary lifestyle. What?

14:07

What role does the group need

14:10

play in controlling mid stance And

14:12

how does it run or know

14:14

if. They. Might have an issue with

14:17

this muscle because it it almost seems like

14:19

every runner kind of does. Yeah.

14:21

So I think with the take

14:23

a step back and look at

14:25

the anatomy of the gluten made

14:27

in there's been some researchers have

14:29

done some incredible work on Yells

14:31

at the People come to Mind

14:33

or Adam's Sin Que straight away

14:35

so he's out the group It

14:37

literally University. And

14:39

he and his team spearhead a lot of that.

14:41

There's There's plenty of other researchers, but. I

14:45

think to start with just

14:47

knowing that the gluten need

14:49

is a mile. articular muscle

14:51

on his has a big

14:53

physiologic cross sectional area and

14:55

pulling on com was here

14:57

but I think they'd like

14:59

sixty percent of the hip

15:01

have dark hip hip abductor

15:03

musculature is basically. The.

15:05

The good made rates so

15:08

it's having to contend with

15:10

really high torque. And

15:12

it basically his

15:14

position to. Deal

15:16

with the initial mode so we

15:19

talked about loading response. You see

15:21

a burst of activity in the

15:23

glue need during the initial five

15:26

to ten percent of stance. Still,

15:28

It's really trying to to work

15:30

with controlling that pelvis and providing

15:32

hips stability. Now I think people

15:34

have this notion. the year you

15:36

don't want any how the proper

15:38

com full auto called o'clock you

15:40

are going the guess that that's

15:42

how this is not going to

15:45

stay perfectly level. So when you

15:47

land your gifts and pelvic drop

15:49

he gives them a baby doctrine.

15:51

We get lumbar side barreling towards

15:53

that side arm. So

15:55

you're we talked about mid stance. I think

15:57

the glute meat is really helping you set

15:59

the. The to get in the mid

16:01

staffs properly. And

16:03

I've seen plenty of mild sparring

16:06

partner in New York Stephen Day

16:08

who's the out one of the

16:10

greediest and most competitive athlete. so

16:12

I think she's raising fifty to

16:14

fifty four. I'm he as gnarly

16:16

pelvic drop and he runs fast

16:18

as hell. He. Also, I think

16:20

he has to be careful of just

16:22

seeing average mechanics in in starting to

16:24

jump to conclusions so. Yeah.

16:27

This is the in orchestra and

16:29

terms of how these muscles worked

16:31

in a cooperate and manner. On.

16:34

But. I think that. This.

16:36

Really got put on put on our

16:38

radar because of Brian Norton's research who

16:40

basically was the first to show up.

16:42

On prospectively the his

16:45

a deduction. Was.

16:47

A risk factor for women who went

16:49

on to debate develop to ephemeral pan.

16:51

Yeah. So I I think that's how

16:54

we really started zooming in on this.

16:58

But you look at some a Bruce Willis

17:00

work and and he did a paper I

17:02

think was jail as P T two thousand

17:04

and eleven that showed it's not quite as

17:06

simple as just hey strengthen the hip abductors

17:08

an external rotors in that's going to improve

17:10

your running mechanics he showed that is. right?

17:13

He showed that improve single like squat mechanics

17:15

but. It. It lends to

17:17

this notion that running as a hierarchical

17:19

skill. So. I think we

17:22

have to be very careful of yeah

17:24

Glued mean important just like yeah solely

17:26

as is important. But. That's

17:29

not the whole picture frame. I.

17:31

Need to take a step back in

17:34

and ask you about your sparring partner.

17:36

I'm just having visions of Chris Johnson

17:38

in a boxing ring being somehow lumps

17:41

on were conspiring. Do you mean there

17:43

are just triathlon serve as a? Yep,

17:45

we were both logged. Well he still

17:48

has a long course triathlete. I'm a

17:50

recovering long course triathlete. Ah, Who's

17:52

really focusing on running? but he and I were

17:54

be out. He always nudge

17:56

me out in some the races that we when

17:58

has had the head but. I'm Steven

18:01

as a gifted runner. He's a British

18:03

dude, which means he always complains it,

18:05

but always seems to show up when

18:07

it, when it matters. Now

18:10

but I some footage that I try and dig

18:12

up and share with you. And.

18:14

I had this very i was

18:16

talking over a cliff with him

18:18

running giving this very rosy explanation

18:21

when I was as young punk

18:23

over kompany clinician. In man

18:25

I keep these videos up just to

18:27

remind myself this yeah I'm about as

18:29

a clinician my thought process but I'll

18:31

send it to you'll find fascinating. Well.

18:34

Thanks Thanks to that I think I

18:36

had a correct the image I had

18:38

in my head of to little endurance

18:40

athletes fighting each other and rings. As

18:42

much as that is much that made

18:44

me laugh. So

18:46

okay, we're understanding that this

18:49

mid stance position is is

18:51

so very important a lot

18:53

and go wrong. Here is

18:55

a symphony of many muscles

18:57

working together to orchestrate this

18:59

movements. How do we train

19:01

it? Because it seems like.

19:03

Isolating. Individual muscles isn't the

19:06

whole picture. Of course, if there's

19:08

you know, a significant weakness, that's

19:10

probably a good idea to get

19:12

your muscles at some baseline level

19:14

of strength. But. It

19:16

is this an issue of training

19:19

movements, not muscles and and how

19:21

do you think about that? Yeah,

19:23

I mean I I tend to

19:25

see a lot of issues. In

19:28

working with runners among women especially forty

19:30

to sixty which is he out these

19:33

are folks coming and often times that

19:35

glue till ten it off as the

19:37

are glued need ten monopoly on I

19:40

I think that in terms of. Challenging.

19:42

Runners especially to preparing for the.

19:46

The demands of stance in mid

19:48

stance in particular on some my

19:50

go to exercises. I mean when

19:52

you look at the research. There's

19:55

there's some several papers. Friend and

19:57

I like Raymond his just brilliant.

19:59

his. It had been valuable contributions

20:01

to the field, collins it all during

20:03

a nice paper and then Damien more

20:05

his part of Adam sent use groups

20:08

he okay in the I would say

20:10

the one com denominator among all these

20:12

papers is. When. You get

20:14

some one operate on some one

20:16

leg. And. You get him doing

20:18

some type of squad and maneuver that

20:20

seems to really challenge the gluten made

20:23

an all three portions of it so

20:25

there's an answer. A middle and post

20:27

year branch that are all supply by

20:29

the super glued. Feel nervous? So yeah,

20:32

I think that. If.

20:34

We're going to challenge it like a

20:36

single leg squat would probably be very

20:38

helpful. Now. From.

20:40

Some of the videos is I think

20:43

that you alluded to that instagram posts

20:45

that I did talking about mid stance.

20:47

On I love to start

20:49

with just simple ban resisted

20:52

told tap so heavy cloth

20:54

fan position around the distal

20:56

thigh. On where you have

20:58

about thirty degrees of me flexing your

21:00

advancing the shin over the fourth so

21:02

you're getting into mid stance and you're

21:05

have a controlled at Lambeau pelvic hip

21:07

complex. On. My.

21:09

Goal: those if people have a

21:11

squat, rack and or smith machine

21:13

is the guess and under barbell.

21:15

So now they're having to contend

21:17

with. Greater degree

21:20

as of axial mode and greater

21:22

forces. So if you just think

21:24

of a toad tat, Is. He

21:26

a visual that you're just doing that under

21:29

a barbell. right? Arm

21:31

in in getting up to gnarly way.

21:33

I always show this to runners in

21:35

there looking at me like always shit

21:37

like this, that's a lot of weight

21:39

and like yeah well you're having to

21:41

deal with a lot of forces when

21:44

you're running. I mean we're saying mid

21:46

stances on average about two point five

21:48

times bodyweight. so you're August People up

21:50

with the barbell totes have to one

21:52

point five times bodyweight Like that's the

21:54

goal for most of the runners and

21:56

triathletes of I cancelled. If

21:59

you have smith. When you take balance

22:01

how the equation seat and really

22:03

no concentrates alone on and I

22:05

also love doing some drop drop

22:08

lands where I'm going and like

22:10

a double a caf raised in

22:12

the smith machine this would be

22:14

it and late stage exercise. And

22:17

I'm dropping and rapidly testing that

22:19

in single like stance which is

22:22

basically preparing you for mid stance.

22:25

Not. Only dealing with Us forces, but the

22:27

rate of loading. right? Chris, can

22:29

I stop you for to the quick

22:31

second you said that was Elites deeds

22:33

exercise. Do you mean by that that

22:35

this is a more advanced exercise that

22:38

we're going a bill to by doing

22:40

a lot of the some other foundational

22:42

exercises first. Yeah so I would want

22:44

someone is first be able to tolerate

22:47

just a barbell, tell tax on be

22:49

out. Proved to me that you can

22:51

manage the load before we start introducing

22:53

a higher rate of loading. Ya

22:56

in that is something is very important with

22:58

running because you know. Short

23:01

round contact as we're looking for less

23:03

than two hundred fifty milliseconds, so on.

23:06

Yeah. And even if I'm working

23:08

with someone who's not presenting with pain

23:10

or pathology them working with from the

23:12

coaching standpoint I would still once and

23:15

approved tolerance to like Barbell Toad taps

23:17

or I've made stance Ice and metrics

23:19

in a smith machine. Before.

23:21

We start doing those drop catches and I

23:24

I can send you videos of this to

23:26

inclusive People are very clear visuals. Because.

23:28

These are not for the Oh exercises

23:30

and you also have to be cognizant

23:33

of where you're plugging those in. Not

23:35

only have some than a rehab program,

23:37

but if they're actively training, where are

23:39

you introducing those exercises in? How's that

23:41

enough? Interface with the running schedule and

23:43

that's. An. Art as much as a

23:45

science. Do. You have any guidelines on

23:47

when his work is best, schedules, and

23:49

maybe we can separate Dad for you

23:51

know, the runner who's healthy and wants

23:53

to complete this work because they want

23:55

to stay healthy. It's needed a have

23:58

a history of some of these injuries,

24:00

but they're not currently dealing with it

24:02

right now. And then there's the runner

24:04

who is currently dealing with. You. Know

24:06

some sort of injury? It is. there a

24:08

different way of incorporating this kind of work

24:10

into a schedule. Depending. On who you

24:13

are. Yeah. I really think

24:15

it's like yeah, you have to

24:17

delineate between someone who is basically

24:19

in rehab, maybe recovering from the

24:22

gluten need ten and all that

24:24

the or a gluten me tear

24:26

versus someone who's actively training who's

24:29

not presenting with any any complaints.

24:31

So if we start with the

24:33

ladder, The reason

24:35

I love something like a barbell

24:38

tell tap or a smith machine

24:40

isometric is because. With

24:43

the running game it's not a

24:45

and I definitely got this wrong

24:47

during the early part of my

24:49

career. It's not these muscles lengthening

24:51

and shortening and like you're basically

24:53

dealing with high contraction intensity and

24:55

a clause the isometric state I

24:57

mean same thing goes with the

24:59

glue meet on I think this

25:01

the if you do too clever

25:03

the muscles are actually lengthening and

25:05

shortening. it probably is be a

25:07

function of over stride. Yeah,

25:09

So now the other thing with Isometric

25:12

training. The. That.

25:14

I find helpful as it

25:16

people generally recover very fast.

25:19

right? So that's important to me, because

25:21

if I'm working with a competitive runner,

25:24

as much as with. To. The extent

25:26

people realizes. I mean. The Elites

25:28

that I work with their the running

25:30

generally sixty nine times a week. He.

25:33

Also used to be very calculated with

25:35

oh you're getting them to do the

25:37

strength training because if you tip the

25:39

scales and you create any serve residual

25:41

soreness or lead them under recovered, they're

25:43

going to be wary of the programming.

25:46

right? So I find it using

25:48

you can get into these high

25:50

contraction states or intensities. While.

25:53

Also not dumping into the next

25:55

run. On. With.

25:57

Rehab I meet the goals to really

25:59

system. They were store capacity

26:01

in the lateral hit musculature

26:03

so. If. You look at the

26:05

door and study that is often quoted him

26:08

as he goes. The Journal of Experimental Biology

26:10

Twenty Twelve. The. Out in the

26:12

glued me that dealing with roughly two

26:14

point six to three point five times

26:16

bodyweight, that's a function of speed. right?

26:19

So we need to just think of

26:21

okay, where is this person. Which.

26:24

Means yes, it's has yet to assess

26:26

it right so you can do things

26:28

like the Out A We're for elevated

26:30

split squats to try and anchor where

26:33

someone is. I'll look it

26:35

a side plants with the top like

26:37

listed just to see someone's willingness to

26:39

load true God through the outer his.

26:42

Death rates really high contraction intensity

26:45

or thing isn't a hundreds three

26:47

or thirteen percent of max voluntary

26:49

contraction. So you just want to

26:51

first say hey, what's point air

26:53

raids and then from there start

26:55

to nudge people. maybe start them

26:57

with. Maybe for

27:00

really irritable you're storing them with something

27:02

as simple as a clamshell. Maybe that

27:04

morse in to sideline hippie beat option

27:06

but the go again as the get

27:09

that runner eventually operate on to one

27:11

leg. So that's

27:13

for your the program hassle to

27:15

bleed of all from Morph into.

27:19

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28:40

Chris. Let me ask you a somewhat selfish

28:42

questions about an issue that I deal with

28:44

in my running, and I think it's more

28:46

common that a lot runners deal with. My

28:50

last glued need. Doesn't.

28:52

Really seem to want her work

28:54

properly and this is an old

28:56

injury that I've had for a

28:59

long time. Probably did not fully

29:01

treated and kept training on it

29:03

and so now it's it's It's

29:05

a little bit more ingrained in.

29:07

Whenever I attempt to do some

29:09

of this single leg work, I

29:11

feel like I have so much

29:14

instability, I lack balance that. I

29:16

don't feel like I'm ever doing

29:19

the movement a hundred percent properly

29:21

because I'm compensating. You know, I'm

29:23

I'm moving around too much. There's

29:26

too much, you know, lateral me

29:28

movements. And. And I'm

29:30

just wondering. I'm thinking about that

29:32

old line: don't builds fitness on

29:34

top of dysfunction, right? Like isn't

29:37

it? Is there anything wrong with.

29:39

Trying. To do these exercises and in

29:42

knowing that the mechanics of it aren't

29:44

one hundred percent there and if there

29:46

is something wrong with that, we're said

29:48

someone like me: start is it like

29:50

you were talking about previously with okay,

29:52

we're into clam shells and we're going

29:54

to do something a little bit more

29:56

advanced and then you're finally going to

29:58

build up to those more advanced. The

30:00

waited. Single. Leg exercises

30:02

would that does challenge your balance. Yeah,

30:04

now I would be looking at things

30:06

head to toe with you. I mean,

30:09

so you took the course. I would

30:11

definitely be taking you through that table

30:13

task just to see if there's any

30:15

dysfunction distillate. It may be negatively impacting

30:17

things up stream. I

30:19

would. I would not. Probably I

30:22

say that you could do something

30:24

like in open chain. Exercise

30:26

such a sideline hit a be

30:28

doctor or a clamshell place I

30:30

would be taking you to stay

30:33

with again. Getting you operate on

30:35

one leg straight I would probably

30:37

be looking to introduce like a

30:39

yellow a cloth. Van

30:42

resisted so tap So getting a like

30:45

a heavy cloth booty band or like

30:47

the Tribe or serious steel bans are

30:49

great on I would be taking you'd

30:52

said that right away. So. Long

30:54

as there were any field

30:56

palms stiffness or mechanical blocks,

30:59

that word negatively impacting your

31:01

your movement Quality. And.

31:03

I would also be looking like how well

31:05

you get your head over your foot. He

31:07

also if we look at balance. Yeah,

31:10

you're saying how I feel a little bit Ceo.

31:13

Wobbly on one leg for ease of

31:15

explanation. Feel. I.

31:18

See this allies times with people

31:20

who don't translate their head over

31:22

there for during stance. Is

31:25

that makes sense? So but yeah I

31:27

mean from my from an exercise prescription

31:29

standpoint I would be looking to get

31:31

you doing. This band resisted tone top

31:33

spot. On the

31:35

gates. There's. No reason why you should

31:37

be able to tolerate that and then says

31:40

actually work you up to a barbell total

31:42

in there be some other exercises. We could

31:44

give you something like a farmer March I

31:46

think that would have sale in your situation.

31:48

Ah, But. Yeah, I would

31:50

be very deliberate trying to get you

31:52

upright and challenging you from a single

31:55

leg close chain Sam point. Is

31:57

this a scenario where we're having

31:59

a clinician with you? Watching you kind

32:01

of looking at your movement patterns is

32:03

really beneficial because I feel like just

32:06

having you next to me would would

32:08

a lay A lot of my fears,

32:10

even if I had the same exact

32:13

prescription of exercises that I could do

32:15

at home, is it's like the psychological

32:17

safety of having a P. T who's

32:20

very knowledgeable telling you you're doing it

32:22

right. Let's just make this small adjustment,

32:24

that kind of thing. It seems like

32:27

that's really important and it's kind of

32:29

a situation. When a runner is dealing

32:31

with. Not. Just the

32:34

physical. Ailments that's bothering

32:36

them but also sort of the emotional.

32:38

Mental. Psychological baggage that comes

32:40

with it. I say yeah,

32:42

I think it can be a

32:44

double edged sword. So I think

32:47

sometimes. Yo. Being.

32:49

In the context of a clinician that

32:51

you know and trust is one thing.

32:53

but I think sometimes clinicians over complicate

32:56

things in a there too quickly trying

32:58

to sue and tinker with someone's movements.

33:00

I mean if I gave you that

33:02

ban resist totes effort say hey look

33:04

look Jason, here's here's assessor size. This

33:07

is why it's important. On

33:09

and this is what it looks like. He

33:11

also let me let me give you a

33:13

model performance. And. I want you

33:15

to have a practice on going to go

33:18

get a glass of water, use the restroom

33:20

even though I may not need to because

33:22

I want you to practice that drill. I

33:24

want you to sense how you how you

33:26

perform it on the last leg versus the

33:28

right leg and then I may come back

33:31

five minutes later and say hey relax as

33:33

toes I want you to get a little

33:35

bit more the his him so revising it

33:37

towards a lateral his. Have

33:39

another practice your goals to to

33:41

do the most and again now

33:43

less efforts. Relax, breathing, know gripping,

33:45

just dropping some simple cues in

33:47

realizing that it doesn't need to

33:49

be perfect as long as you

33:52

understand. Why? We're doing the

33:54

exercise in what constitutes success

33:56

in in where people trick

33:58

that compensates were. They're the exercise.

34:01

Were no longer squeezing everything we

34:03

can. Ah, the exercise. This reminds

34:05

me of a part of the course that

34:07

you offered last year which was sort of.

34:10

Not. Over coaching this idea of

34:13

just getting out of your clients

34:15

way and letting them figure some

34:17

things out by themselves because it's

34:19

like you said, Over queuing. Can

34:22

be something that you know. I don't

34:24

think a lot of people think about

34:26

this from a Pts perspective, but from

34:28

a coach you can certainly over coach.

34:30

You can certainly just. Be to

34:32

hands on. You know your that the

34:34

helicopter coach chef, the coaching world on.

34:36

But this is an important part of

34:38

physical therapy because ultimately you're not going

34:41

to be in this The Therapies office

34:43

all the time. You can be out

34:45

there in the real world doing some

34:47

of these movements and doing your sports,

34:49

and you have to have the confidence

34:51

that you're moving correctly yourself. Yeah, I

34:53

think we all have signatures to the

34:55

way we moved when we're doing certain

34:57

tasks. So. He. I think that

34:59

it's very easy to have i in

35:01

idealistic notion of how someone should move

35:03

and the I think that. The.

35:06

Courses What's the stimulus? Or

35:08

the adaptation that were going for in

35:10

as long as we're basically. Doing

35:12

something to address at work towards

35:15

it's that's the goal. He. Also

35:17

like with that they and resisted totes

35:19

about the stand up here little bit.

35:22

Yell one of the things. Is.

35:24

T ball more tend to when they

35:26

tap out to decide they want to

35:28

rotate your body so on a just

35:30

say hey Jason this looks good on.

35:33

Let's. Have you try and do this

35:35

where he is tasteless hand. In that way

35:37

I just imposes simple constraints. So.

35:40

If I just had you, go here

35:42

now. You can't rotate away, so I'm

35:44

giving you a very simple constraints. This

35:46

can ensure you're squeezing a little bit

35:48

more out of that exercise. And I

35:50

say squeezing out on mean squeezing the

35:52

globe like I'm on making sure that

35:55

there's no way for easy to cheat

35:57

the exercises. That point. Yeah.

35:59

I love ways. You can almost cheap

36:01

proof and exercise by a very

36:03

simple cues and at a really

36:05

forces you into the right positions.

36:07

No, no, we're talking a lot

36:09

about exercises. You have so many

36:11

phenomenal demonstrations that I'm going to

36:13

linked to in the show notes,

36:15

so folks should definitely check out

36:17

the show notes. for those resources

36:19

on let's talk a little bit

36:21

on a related topic that we

36:23

mentioned earlier, which is these movements

36:25

snacks. You're a big fan of

36:27

just incorporating some basic movements throughout

36:29

the day. You know, this is

36:32

hardly quote unquote. Formal training is

36:34

probably separate from your formal training

36:36

session, that is, You probably did

36:38

in the morning or in the

36:40

afternoon. However, your schedule mighty. And

36:42

a lot of these movements are.

36:45

Sort. Of like what we've been discussing,

36:47

but maybe without the weight. You know

36:49

you're just practicing. The. Movement itself

36:52

in in unweighted way. Can you

36:54

go over a couple of your

36:56

favorite movements snacks especially those that

36:58

might stress that mid stance position

37:01

like we've been discussing. Yeah.

37:03

So he I wanted. Always

37:06

pay, I pay credit where it's

37:08

do so. A big Forums app

37:10

for a kinetic was a one

37:12

to introduce that turn to me

37:15

and he is a brilliant clinician.

37:17

Yeah he he's been. In.

37:19

The clinic for a number of years he's

37:21

he's on top of the literature sell the

37:24

I'll give him a followed. His.

37:26

Size if you want to learn more bits.

37:29

So I follow Commodore Old Masters in. What

37:31

I've noticed is that I feel very sluggish

37:33

and and I know that I'm not alone

37:35

saying this, but. Yeah. If I just

37:38

sit at my desk for extended periods of

37:40

time i just i feel sluggish when i

37:42

go to train still a more and i

37:44

also feel like as are no longer productive

37:46

after like the out forty five to sixty

37:49

minutes. Yeah, I just I need to get

37:51

up and move. which is why I can never plug

37:53

into a corporate setting. I get fired within the first

37:55

week. Ah, you and me both

37:57

my friend. Yeah, for sure. Ah,

38:00

So I basically follow a Pompadour Oh technique

38:02

which involves working in a twenty five minute

38:04

block and I take a five minute break.

38:08

During that five minute breaks his you were

38:10

a fly on the wall. my garage you

38:12

would see me. Doing. The

38:14

slow robe. Which. Is basically.

38:18

Priming the lumber pelvic sit roof

38:20

relief the it's one of the

38:22

ultimate priming activities for running for

38:25

walking from locomotion. Ah

38:27

I'm so I'll take a five minute break and

38:29

I made a swing the road for two and

38:31

a half minutes. you may see me doing. A

38:34

March two overhead reach. You may see

38:36

me doing a march with the dow

38:38

rod overhead. You may see

38:40

me doing some of those dow rod

38:42

mobilizations I've been posting on Instagram lately,

38:45

so. Yeah. It's basically this

38:47

frequent movements throughout the day. They are

38:49

going to put you in a better

38:51

position when you go to run in.

38:53

People can challenge me on this. I

38:55

mean there's not any yell or groundbreaking

38:58

research that he know talks about. The

39:00

role of movement, snacks, and how that's gonna

39:02

make make you a better runner, But I

39:04

think that. Our. Bodies are designed

39:06

to move in cities, not the devil.

39:09

But if if you're sitting for nine,

39:11

ten hours a day yells get you

39:13

up, get you moving on. So I've

39:15

been weaving these and and and I

39:17

think this is presenting it in that

39:20

manner really resonates with my patience and

39:22

clients like they're like a love that

39:24

concept of movement. Snacks. And. I

39:26

think that's a fine when they do

39:29

serve incorporated this into the dirt work

39:31

flow? Did they feel more productive? Their

39:33

body feels better, and they're getting more

39:35

out of the training sessions now. This

39:37

is all anecdotal, but. When

39:40

you hear people report this enough you start

39:42

to say head is probably something to this.

39:44

Ah, So yes you could

39:46

be could do any number of things

39:48

are you could do a push up

39:51

by symmetrically to do the band resisted

39:53

total spit I send the think when

39:55

I'm when I'm going through drills, there's

39:57

movements, snacks and I'm just doing randomly

39:59

throughout the day. I'm. And

40:01

then there's like the main course which

40:03

could be. Ah veo!

40:06

Squatting, Dead listing farmer

40:08

marches he a bigger

40:10

exercises bigger movements. Ah

40:13

so that's how I tend to conceptualize

40:15

and in also incorporated into to my

40:17

programming an exercise prescription for people. I'm.

40:20

Glad you said that. You know there's not

40:22

a lot of groundbreaking research on this because

40:24

you know on the one hands. I'm.

40:27

With you that I think these kinds

40:29

of activities or transform it is if

40:31

you're not doing them, if you are

40:33

sitting for a long time and you're

40:35

just not moving very much throughout the

40:37

day, especially if you're someone who runs,

40:39

say, after work you know, five, six,

40:41

seven o'clock in the or in the

40:43

evening hours, and you know you just

40:45

spend eight or nine hours sitting down

40:47

at a desk. But. On the

40:49

other hand, there's really no research to support

40:51

that idea. You know, it's just sort of

40:53

all this. Well. I've experienced

40:56

it. My athletes have experienced it. I

40:58

talked to smart people like Chris Johnson

41:00

and he says it's true self. You

41:02

know it's one of the things where.

41:05

The. Anecdotal experience of it

41:07

is just so powerful. But.

41:10

At the same time, there's no with

41:12

his really no evidence to to suggest

41:14

that it's beneficial in in any kind

41:16

of profound way and curious like. Have

41:19

huge than justify it you know? And

41:21

and I guess now you're put on

41:23

your coaches had because you're very often

41:25

citing studies which I think it's fantastic.

41:27

But often coaches have to do things

41:30

that. Aren't. Fully supported by the

41:32

literature and asked part of the arse

41:34

of coaching, right? Yeah, And I would

41:36

say that yeah there is. There is

41:39

research. He. Out there is there's

41:41

a paper that if you pull a pub

41:43

bad and just type in movement or exercise

41:45

snacks. On and how they

41:47

have the potential to improve cardio metabolic

41:49

health. I mean there are there is

41:51

data on this stuff. It's

41:54

just not. Really? Present in the

41:56

context of how this is going to improve your rank

41:58

to us can improve your health and. This if

42:00

you're taking breaks. He. Out so

42:02

on so I I sort of the are

42:04

presented as such to say others research on

42:07

just basically the the road getting up and

42:09

moving. whether that's going to I mean the

42:11

ultimate move the sack let's be honest as

42:13

go out for ten or fifteen minute walk.

42:16

right? Arm but I I

42:19

think challenging runners through some the

42:21

drills at we talked about does

42:23

seem to have. Transparency

42:25

carry over to the running. And.

42:28

When runners are doing this kind of work, What's

42:30

the main goal you know? Like

42:32

is it? Ah, you know lotta

42:34

runners don't think they're doing anything

42:36

unless their heart read gets up.

42:38

This isn't that kind of work,

42:40

Is it? We're not. We're not

42:43

lifting weights. We're not getting some

42:45

sort of aerobics benefit. It's just

42:47

is it Slow and controlled movement

42:49

and really refining how your body

42:51

moves in certain ways like with

42:53

exactly your thought process on. You.

42:55

Know what you're getting out of some of this kind of

42:57

work? A. Lot of this year as it

42:59

relates to running is I mean. Without.

43:02

Using too much sassy terminology is

43:04

single like postural stability drills. He.

43:07

Our on. So. That

43:09

serve the whole idea behind the

43:11

marching. He. I think the the

43:13

slow rope you start getting into some

43:16

longbow pelvic mechanics really teaching people to

43:18

get head over Floyd which I think

43:20

is really important for running. Else you

43:22

need do is look Italian. Tip

43:24

them rest in peace to understand like

43:26

the importance of head over foot during.

43:29

Single like tasks. On

43:31

Cel. Not sure if that answers your question

43:34

though. The I know I they I

43:36

think it helps to with better understanding. Sort.

43:38

Of the. Kind of the

43:40

reason you know I've a lot of my athletes. They

43:42

want to know why they're doing certain things and so

43:45

now I can say you know. Practicing.

43:47

Any kind of work on your

43:50

one leg because running as a

43:52

single leg activity is gonna enhance

43:54

the the robustness of your ability

43:56

to be an app position on

43:58

and I think midst. The answer

44:00

is probably. The. Most difficult

44:02

part of the single leg

44:05

stance. And that sort of

44:07

ties everything into what we've been discussing,

44:09

right? It's You know, it's. Not.

44:12

Only a movement that you have to be good

44:14

at the then you also have to be able

44:16

to withstand the forces that you're going to experience

44:18

with the in that movement And that's where the

44:20

strength part of it comes in. Yeah.

44:23

And I think it's it's strength. it's

44:25

a T resistance. His.

44:28

Rhythm, Timing. fluidity, smoothness. It's

44:31

all that. And I

44:33

said, i also think something that did. Get

44:36

it? that's often misunderstood to

44:38

is sometimes people see. I

44:41

may be getting a little bit off

44:43

topic here, but yeah, sometimes people see

44:45

Albert mechanics during mid stance where they're

44:48

like all this person the else has

44:50

dynamic neither August or they're not controlling

44:52

rotation. I think you also have to

44:54

really understand that runners ankle dorsa flexion.

44:56

yeah it is. as someone who just

44:59

has this ankles is that their structure

45:01

or their. Anatomy on.

45:04

E. O That could definitely be the case with

45:06

Masters of Laughing. So I I think that you

45:08

have to really understand this. From.

45:11

Various angles, Chris. Does

45:13

that mean we probably should

45:15

not. Spend. All

45:18

of our time over diagnosing.

45:20

What we consider to be

45:22

movements inefficiencies and instead just

45:25

focus on. Being.

45:27

Assistance at that movements getting

45:30

strong, Practicing. The

45:32

movements themselves because I fully agree

45:34

with you you know I've You

45:36

can look at pictures or video

45:38

of elite runners on the track

45:40

or racing a marathon and the

45:42

pro nation in some of the

45:44

the internal rotation of the knee.

45:46

Is so profound and you know you have

45:48

all these on you know twitter coaches saying

45:51

that they they should fix this stuff and

45:53

did be better If you know they weren't

45:55

prone eating so much but at the same

45:57

time this is the way that they move

45:59

and the Epa speeds that they're running. These.

46:02

Forces are going to be even higher

46:04

so they may even cause even more

46:06

pro nation or or some of that

46:08

rotation. Yeah, I think that

46:10

it's It's largely unhelpful to

46:13

try and make sense of

46:15

what you're seeing. From a

46:17

snapshot, if you don't know

46:19

that runner, you haven't formally

46:21

evaluated them because you're gonna

46:23

be relying on a number

46:25

of assumptions which generally make

46:27

Iraq right. So. If

46:29

you see someone who's running fast

46:31

with all these average mechanics usa.

46:34

For. Whatever reason, it's working for them. He

46:36

also I'd mentioned calvin kiss him people he

46:38

I would say oh he has too much

46:41

media lateral movement. People would say the same

46:43

thing about Usain Bolt and I'm facing. Ah

46:46

while he beat these guys in a race.

46:48

and then you can start phone and and

46:50

the canister off. Yeah. Maybe maybe

46:53

most runners need more of

46:55

that medial lateral movement. Maybe

46:57

that's the problem, right? sub?

47:00

The ice. People. Do this

47:02

with line or Sanders to the other. Like all

47:04

you could do X, y and z and like,

47:07

Have you ever evaluated Lionel Sanders? He have no

47:09

clue what you're seeing Now. So.

47:12

Yeah. Moyes. very, very reluctant to try

47:14

and cherry pick anything. With. Thanks

47:16

Chris I I enjoyed learning more

47:19

about mid stance certain and I

47:21

I think this is helping runners

47:23

better understands. Sort. Of every

47:25

phase of the gate cycle and in

47:27

were in the gate cycle the need

47:29

to be strong into have a lot

47:31

of confidence in and so by incorporating

47:34

some of these movements snacks, drills, exercises

47:36

that you talked about again I'm gonna

47:38

link to a lot of those things

47:40

in the show know so folks can

47:42

check it out. Is there anything I

47:44

might have missed about mid stance or

47:47

does general topic that you'd like to

47:49

add. That. You. Know I

47:51

think would add maybe a little extra flavor. Nothing

47:54

that jumps out on the i

47:56

would say that the main saying

47:58

that that's just work. Mentioning.

48:01

His people far under load the

48:03

most of the runners who console

48:05

me from physical therapy standpoint. When

48:09

they when they present and I say

48:11

it seems like you're spending your wheels

48:13

would have you been doing what's your

48:15

current program? They're just they're far under

48:18

load. Yeah. On or

48:20

they become very mannered with single leg

48:22

drills which again I think. Obviously

48:25

is important for running, but on

48:27

the I think a combination double

48:29

leg and single leg drills is

48:32

generally important for someone's program. So

48:35

but no I I think the main thing

48:37

is to live to challenge people and to

48:39

make sure they have the capacity to handle

48:41

the demands of mid stance. And if you

48:43

have a program that is far under loading

48:46

someone it's not gonna call it. That

48:48

person will get exposed and

48:51

he out of matches before.

48:54

Weather's. Teaching or on podcast. The mean

48:56

people are always. He. Out for

48:58

whatever reason put it putting a lot

49:00

of stock in the hit musculature them

49:02

were talking about. Mid staffs I'm thinking

49:05

don't forget the claws like the closet

49:07

working for to six times bodyweight. I've

49:09

never seen someone who's a really like.

49:12

Successful. Robust runner

49:14

who doesn't have. Incredible.

49:17

Quad Strict. Yourself. Again,

49:20

back to this whole notion that this is

49:22

a symphony, right? It's not yell Frankenstein, we're

49:24

we're trying to parse out certain muscles. Yeah,

49:26

sure, if someone's coming off of a good

49:29

me, turn it off that the load the

49:31

tissue with the issue. But. Also

49:33

understand that disasters to plug

49:35

into the kinetic chain. He

49:37

also. Get the

49:40

quads. Very. Important during mid

49:42

stance load the tissue with the issue.

49:44

Another quotable: Chris, I love it. Yeah,

49:46

yeah well those are the elves loading

49:49

right? So any some designing a program?

49:52

I. I'm It started out as three.

49:54

now it's five. Just because I'm I'm

49:57

fighting more. Words begin with a letter

49:59

L. So. Localized loading arrived

50:01

so the else of learning any time

50:03

putting together program for someone it has

50:05

to generally check these boxes so. Number.

50:08

One load the tissue with the issue

50:10

or localized loading. Number

50:13

to give someone a life

50:15

movement Push pull him Squad

50:17

Carey Price Three Com. Link.

50:20

It's. Just. Someone doing something

50:22

that's challenging the kinetic chain. That could

50:24

be a step up. In.

50:27

Exercise It pertains to locomotion. That could

50:29

be something like the slow rope walking

50:32

forward and backward. And. Then the

50:34

says hours. Or less or

50:36

Love. Guess let people do an

50:38

exercise in love. Everyone is has

50:40

an exerciser sort of enameled by

50:42

are they love to do so

50:44

Yeah that's sad that serve the

50:46

framework for. Crafting Home

50:48

Exercise program first for some the comes in.

50:51

So. Helpful Chris Thank you so much

50:53

I. Evokes one of check

50:55

out what you're working on of

50:57

follow you know some of your

50:59

your exploits and physical therapy I

51:02

know your Instagram is is probably

51:04

one of the best places to

51:06

see visually some of the exercises

51:08

that. We've talked about

51:10

but his anywhere else folks can learn more

51:12

about you. Yeah my newsletters. Hands down the

51:15

best place. I mean I have a youtube

51:17

channel that I had a pulsating in

51:19

a while. It's funny when people isi reference

51:21

it has yet to me and served

51:23

like collecting dust or cobwebs space on. Yeah,

51:26

I spend. I read a monthly newsletter.

51:28

I spend a lot of time limit

51:30

on death Ray Really get into my

51:32

musings. My thoughts: On in, expand

51:34

upon some the things you may see me

51:37

pulsing posting on Instagram that yeah I mean

51:39

my my goal with my Instagram account is

51:41

to just show give a lands and to

51:44

me playing with movement some the things that

51:46

I tend to prioritize and working with runners

51:48

but I also want those to be presented

51:50

as like actually yeah, you can look at

51:53

it thirty seconds you know where it is

51:55

never a waste of your time. I try

51:57

to really talk about. Location:

52:00

The out. Some the research

52:02

they may drive what I'm talking

52:04

about are showing itself on yeah

52:07

that this is all fine and

52:09

I'll say like the city's gets

52:11

weirder as I get older men

52:13

yeah apologies for curse the i

52:15

was looking at ya my last

52:17

few videos and ah and I

52:19

also love like when I hear

52:21

certain songs ice I think of

52:23

very specific movement so I try

52:26

to just create it's very cerebral

52:28

experience for people and.e I love

52:30

when I get comments like. There's

52:32

a cell, Cameron, un. Who

52:34

are who works in New York City?

52:36

Time friend and he's like that last

52:39

dow rod walk that you did you

52:41

like. My. Spine just feel

52:43

sadder. Watching. That and when

52:45

I hear stuff like that. Online Helier.

52:48

Cel. Mai those just get just

52:50

people think that about this stuff given

52:52

good models of performance on because I

52:54

think if you if if you watch

52:56

someone who's moving in a smooth fluid

52:58

manner that doesn't nes as I mean

53:01

there could be some pain but yeah.

53:03

I see sit watching someone move

53:06

like that is very therapeutic in

53:08

it's own right. So

53:10

hopefully they serve as a good resource for

53:12

people. Play with them. Be sensible. On.

53:15

And. Yeah.

53:17

I would encourage of want to get a

53:20

flow rope and start. If you're a runner

53:22

like that's it. That's the missing link if

53:24

you're not doing it. I have never heard

53:26

of a flow rope until today but you

53:28

know I'm going to be looking into it

53:31

now. Ah Chris Thanks so much for being

53:33

here and your expertise! Ah guys check out

53:35

the show notes for for links to Christmas

53:37

stuff. it'll change your running. Thank you Chris!

53:40

Thanks again for and me Jason Keep up

53:42

the good work your Simonides deep respect for

53:44

and your humble dude it's always. It's always

53:46

fun. Katrina. I. Appreciate that for thank

53:48

you. What? An

53:50

episode. Thank you so much for listening

53:53

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