0:02

Let's drop the green

0:02

flag on this episode of the

0:05

talent tank podcast with your

0:05

host Wyatt Pemberton bringing

0:09

you the best fastest most

0:09

knowledgeable personalities and

0:13

ultra for and off road racing

0:20

alright alright alright alright

0:20

here we go the talent tank back

0:23

in session took off you know for

0:23

let's call it something of the

0:27

winner you know king of the

0:27

hammers we had the the pre show

0:30

with Myles then of course we all

0:30

know what happened at King

0:33

hammers 2021 What a great event

0:33

ultra for absolutely smoked down

0:37

the park without one under

0:37

COVID. They still pulled it off

0:41

is really impressive. But you

0:41

guys didn't harrassed you didn't

0:44

dial into hear me talk about

0:44

what happened at cailleach 2021.

0:47

You definitely showed up today

0:47

to listen to my good buddy Brad

0:51

level level racing level

0:51

brothers. Brad, how are you?

0:56

Good wine. I'm really happy to

0:56

be part of this. I've learned a

0:59

lot of interesting things about

0:59

a lot of people and I'm happy to

1:02

share some of my story. Well,

1:02

your story is amazing. And I've

1:06

known you since 2008 2007.

1:06

Somewhere in there through zarei

1:11

our good friend JT Taylor

1:11

introduced us I think that you

1:14

know, I knew who you got you

1:14

guys were always these racing

1:17

these blue Rangers, you and your

1:17

brother Roger, I can tell you to

1:21

very easily apart today. 1215 years ago, I would always

1:24

get Brad and Roger confused and

1:29

so I was always leery to call.

1:29

Which one the right one? So

1:33

sorry about that. No, no, no worries. I'm like

1:35

that with some people to you

1:38

know, hey, fella. How you doing?

1:38

You know, I get it. We get

1:43

called twins all the time. We're

1:43

not Rogers three years older.

1:46

But I do have twin boys. So that

1:46

only and further confuses it

1:50

further confuses in the amazing

1:50

wife, Natalie, that lets you

1:54

chase your dreams. Indeed,

1:54

indeed. she's a she's a good

1:59

manager. We'll talk we'll talk about your family here in a little bit. But so here we are.

2:00

You know, by the time everyone

2:03

is listening to this now, Moab

2:03

will be behind us ultra for

2:07

Moab. It will have been this

2:07

past weekend. Brad, good luck.

2:10

You're in the throes of prepping

2:10

for that that's almost it's not

2:14

your backyard race. But it's

2:14

pretty. It's one of your closer

2:17

events. It is it's definitely a

2:17

place we've been going for a lot

2:21

of years. But you know, actually, we have something a little different going on this

2:23

year. I'm not racing in the

2:26

ultra for event. We're going out

2:26

there and putting on a bronco

2:30

ride and drive. So we're gonna

2:30

have a bunch of Bronco sports a

2:34

bunch of Broncos that people can

2:34

ride around and get a ride with

2:38

a pro driver. Brad, you're from

2:38

Colorado Springs, right? Just

2:41

Yep. Yeah, born in Colorado

2:41

Springs, and you still live

2:45

there today. You've you've been

2:45

racing for 15 years greater than

2:49

a long time through a lot of

2:49

different genres. We're gonna

2:51

definitely get into all that.

2:51

But here as of late in the last

2:54

When did you mean? Well, you've

2:54

been a Ford guy is back as far

2:58

as back as I remember. Racing,

2:58

these Ford Bronco chassis, you

3:03

know, with fiberglass body

3:03

panels that you that look like a

3:06

ranger. And today, you're kind

3:06

of working the dream, right?

3:10

You're working for your for Ford

3:10

as a consultant. And you're

3:14

currently on the bronco program.

3:14

Yeah, it's been a focus now for

3:19

just under four years. But it's

3:19

been really exciting for me in

3:24

my career to be involved with

3:24

Bronco and Ford, my brother and

3:27

I've always been four guys we

3:27

grew up bouncing around in the

3:32

backseat of a bronco. And you know, we when we got into

3:35

off roading, Roger got a bronco

3:39

to I got a ranger. And we did it

3:39

recreationally. And then, you

3:43

know, coming up through motor

3:43

sports, we always wanted to stay

3:46

forward and there, there were a

3:46

lot of years where it really

3:49

wasn't easy. And there's still

3:49

not a lot of Ford motors out on

3:53

the grid there. But it's really

3:53

something special to be to be

3:56

able to be part of something

3:56

like like Bronco, I mean, it's a

3:59

once in a lifetime deal to to be

3:59

part of that program and and

4:04

honestly have some influence in

4:04

it and where it goes. So, yeah,

4:09

it's been a dream job. How do

4:09

you like or deal with having

4:13

this vehicle, this new platform

4:13

that's out there that the masses

4:16

are now buying? We're starting

4:16

to see him on the streets to

4:18

have your DNA on it. It's pretty

4:18

cool. And you know, I won't kid

4:22

you. There's quite a while where

4:22

I started doing support work.

4:26

And then they eventually, you

4:26

know, I offered too many

4:30

opinions, let's say so, they

4:30

brought me on more as a

4:33

consultant, but to see the

4:33

bronco unveil unveiled, you

4:39

know, privately to learn about

4:39

it, you know, you kind of hold

4:42

on to that and it's your, it's

4:42

your baby, nobody else knows

4:45

about it. So it's releasing that

4:45

to the masses, when people get

4:49

to see what it is. And now I

4:49

know everybody's just dying to

4:53

actually touch and feel one and

4:53

get to go drive it and see what

4:57

it is. I'm really excited for

5:00

That I really am because I, it's

5:00

not just a bunch of lip service,

5:04

it's authentic. And honestly, I

5:04

would, again, I'm not gonna kid

5:09

you, I would want to be involved

5:09

with the program one way or

5:11

another, I've never been

5:11

involved with the development of

5:13

an OEM vehicle and I would have

5:13

done it one way or another but

5:16

to have it come out as authentic

5:16

as it is to have the engineers

5:21

at Ford to see the need and to

5:21

finally look to the offer

5:26

community for not only support

5:26

but as customers and they want

5:29

to make it better for us, rather

5:29

than you know, taken away to

5:33

make things better on roads. So

5:33

it's it's pretty neat to be part

5:37

of that in my circle, you know,

5:37

outside of offered and

5:40

professional world, you know,

5:40

real life. That group of people

5:44

no means it has to be this offer

5:44

to this vehicle, this vehicle

5:47

enthusiast this motor hegde

5:47

whatever you call it, and get to

5:51

get the questions like Hey, man, what do you think of this new Bronco? And I'm like, Well, you

5:52

see the videos where it's like

5:56

the closed course professional

5:56

driver. That's my friend Brad

5:59

driving. And there's no way like, Yeah,

6:02

that's it. I see that on TV in

6:07

to see the bronco coming to life

6:07

and being videoed. I assume that

6:11

is in Johnson Valley. You guys

6:11

shot it looks like Johnson

6:15

Valley. Yeah, that that was a

6:15

busy time out there. We there

6:20

just been a lot of rain. And

6:20

we're doing a lot of activities.

6:25

So we being driven dynamic, do a

6:25

lot of support work for Ford,

6:29

and then we're, you know, also

6:29

I, I've taken on some driving

6:33

duties and consulting duties. So

6:33

we, we had a whole mess of

6:36

testing going on. And then

6:36

outcomes the the marketing

6:41

effort, and it was, it was a big

6:41

deal. And and there was there's

6:45

a lot of pressure because they

6:45

they want everything to be

6:49

perfect. And understandably so.

6:49

But, you know, we're You and I

6:53

were we're flying out towards

6:53

Pitt to let's say, and there's

6:56

some books and we're off the

6:56

side of the insurance road,

6:59

that's perfect for us. But it

6:59

has to be right so that it can

7:03

be filmed so that the production

7:03

bus can be there. You know, it's

7:07

big stuff. And so it took quite

7:07

a bit of scouting and sorting it

7:12

out. But we did a really good

7:12

job. I'm really proud of the way

7:15

that whole deal came out. I did

7:15

a fair amount of driving for it.

7:18

And a couple of the engineers

7:18

did some more driving, there's

7:23

more cool stuff that hit the

7:23

cutting room floor then you'd

7:27

imagine and for me, I've done

7:27

I've done some stunt driving and

7:32

some camera work stuff. But this

7:32

was really cool because they had

7:35

the camera on a big arm hanging

7:35

off the truck, whatever that

7:38

thing's called, in a drone that

7:38

had a, I don't know, five foot

7:42

wingspan, and they're flying

7:42

that thing, like almost parked

7:46

on the hood. Why? And you got to you can't even react, you just

7:49

got to keep driving through it.

7:52

So, boy, and there are a couple

7:52

shots, I can remember one or

7:54

that big arm coming off the

7:54

pursuit. I think it's called a

7:57

pursuit. But swinging across

7:57

like right in front of me. And

8:01

you know, you just nailed the

8:01

shot and that that's what's

8:04

really cool it. It's I enjoy

8:04

doing all those things. I love

8:07

racing, but a lot of these other

8:07

things. It's a there's still

8:11

pressure, but it's not the

8:11

pressure I put on myself for

8:13

racing. So I really enjoy it.

8:13

It's a new challenge. Yeah,

8:17

yeah. It was a lot of fun and

8:17

rainy and unique conditions out

8:21

there in Johnson Valley. So I

8:21

think it kind of shows up in

8:24

what we're talking about is that

8:24

you know, the reveal video,

8:26

which I'm sure if you haven't

8:26

seen it go back and look at it

8:29

on YouTube or something. But

8:29

it's it's pretty cool. How much

8:33

fun is it to work with, or in

8:33

call these guys teammates now to

8:37

some extent, but Vaughn getan

8:37

and Lauren Healy. They're now

8:42

it's running for power plants

8:42

there.

8:45

Are they've converted? Yeah,

8:45

it's uh, yeah, well,

8:51

yeah, I guess. I'm glad you brought it up.

8:52

Because you know, we're, we've

8:56

always been Bronco, folks. It's

8:56

great. We're, you know, spent a

8:59

lot of time with Bailey Cole and

8:59

Jason shear, Jason's been a

9:03

longtime friend through BFG. And

9:03

both Vaughn and Lauren been

9:09

involved with them with a couple

9:09

different activities. It's, it's

9:12

great and what is really

9:12

developing around it is kind of

9:16

the same team that we have with

9:16

the BFG Performance Team, which

9:20

you know, everybody's looking

9:20

out for the group and really

9:23

trying to help each other out to

9:23

do the best for for ultimately

9:27

BFG on that team and on this

9:27

team forward so everybody brings

9:30

a little bit something different

9:30

to the table and has a little

9:34

bit different mission. But it's

9:34

it's been great so far, and I

9:39

brought me you know, those guys

9:39

are all my friends but to work

9:43

on some exclusive like this It

9:43

gets you a little closer, I

9:46

guess. Well yeah, there's

9:46

definitely friendship you on

9:49

track where you're trying to beat each other and you know, you're cheering you're cheering

9:51

your competitor on, but at the

9:54

same time, like you still want to now being on that. You guys

9:57

have the

10:00

The same you're on the same side

10:00

of the coin, right? You're,

10:03

you're trying to push this, this

10:03

amazing, you know, OEM vehicle

10:06

out to the, to the masses and,

10:06

and to do it through your

10:10

medium. right you guys brought

10:10

forward to the table for used

10:14

kicking the hammers this year as

10:14

just a launch pad for this new

10:19

platform. How cool was that?

10:19

Honestly, it is and hats off to

10:24

Dave Cole Honestly, I mean, I, I

10:24

was really skeptical if the

10:28

event was going to happen at

10:28

all. And then it you know, I was

10:31

raised in two trucks down out

10:31

there. And then it felt like

10:35

we're tripling down on the bet

10:35

with doing this ride and drive

10:39

with Ford and having Ford out

10:39

there and wanting to put on the

10:43

best impression we can for those

10:43

guys. So but you know, everybody

10:48

had perseverance and had courage

10:48

to do something a little bit

10:52

different. And the thing is

10:52

about Bronco it's it's not a

10:56

Jeep for didn't want to build a

10:56

Jeep, and I'm glad they didn't

10:59

build a Jeep it's a little bit

10:59

different. And it's really good

11:03

at going fast. When a Jeep you

11:03

know, the fast you drive a Jeep,

11:07

it just starts hurting, and it

11:07

just bangs you around. But in a

11:11

bronco The faster you go, it

11:11

starts to show its spirit. So

11:15

cruzan 6070 miles an hour out in

11:15

Johnson Valley and getting up

11:20

through some rocks. That's

11:20

pretty much the ride and drive

11:23

we put on. And I think like I

11:23

said it took a little courage

11:26

from everybody to find a way to

11:26

do it safely. And I think we did

11:31

and we're you know planning to

11:31

do the same thing out in Moab.

11:35

Now granted, we're you know, to

11:35

me mo ABS a little different.

11:37

We're not going to go fly in

11:37

6070 miles around Moab over

11:41

whoops. But there's a lot of

11:41

terrain out there that the

11:44

bronco can really shine in as

11:44

well. So tell me as we talked

11:47

about the train in this vehicle,

11:47

and I don't want this to be the

11:50

bronco show. But here in the

11:50

beginning we're gonna because I

11:52

have some questions. So I see a

11:52

video. It's in like tight, tight

11:57

Woods course. And I said Woods

11:57

course I don't think it was a

12:00

course I think it was just off

12:00

road with woods. And the rocket

12:03

goes around a corner and

12:03

literally it drags its back tire

12:06

and I'm assisting heading

12:06

brakes. So it you guys, where

12:11

did Where did the cutting

12:11

brakes? Or the the turning

12:14

breaker? How does that activate?

12:14

And how did that come to the

12:16

table? And how did that end up

12:16

on the vehicle? And how does

12:18

that end up in production?

12:18

Because that's an amazing

12:21

feature. Yeah, so what's what's

12:21

you're talking about, it's

12:25

called trail turn assist. And

12:25

what it's modeled after doing a

12:29

front burn in a rock crawler, or

12:29

screwing around in the sand. So,

12:35

you know, we do not have the

12:35

ability to disengage the rear

12:38

drive because it's a

12:38

conventional transfer case. But

12:41

the next best thing you can do

12:41

is cut power to one wheel and

12:45

grab the brake there. And you

12:45

know, tech technology is only

12:49

marching forward and I say it

12:49

time. And again. What's great

12:52

about the bronco is it finally

12:52

that technology is for us guys

12:56

off road. So it has an

12:56

electronic brake booster and ABB

13:01

and what that can do is through

13:01

electronics or functions grab

13:06

individual brakes. So you take

13:06

the rear locker out, you engage

13:10

trail turn assist, and when you

13:10

go to full lock on the wheel,

13:13

it'll lock up the inside tire.

13:13

So and and really it works at

13:19

80% as well as a front burn. I

13:19

mean, if you if you have a rock

13:23

face, you can turn around right

13:23

on a dime, you know, and so the

13:28

idea that they're bringing that

13:28

technology in it's a hoot in the

13:31

sand. There's that and other

13:31

technology that's just for off

13:35

roading just for you and me and

13:35

that's what I love about it. You

13:38

said it's a hoot. I love that

13:38

phrase. Yeah.

13:43

It is very cool technology and

13:43

to see that we we get it and

13:46

it's gonna hit the production.

13:46

Hopefully he's got you know,

13:50

we're gonna see this massive

13:50

influx in overlanders maybe more

13:54

so than now. I Well, I think

13:54

obviously it's a it's an

13:59

overlanding vehicle. There's,

13:59

there's great opportunity,

14:02

there's a whole system figured

14:02

out for you know, roof racks and

14:07

all that business and taking the

14:07

top off and it's modular so you

14:10

don't have to store it like a

14:10

Jeep top. Another another really

14:14

cool feature on it that's near

14:14

and dear to my heart is called a

14:17

one pedal and what one pedal

14:17

does, you know, for people who

14:21

are listening to drive fast in

14:21

the rocks or kind of rocks at

14:25

all, it's a proven technique to

14:25

use brake overlap, so your left

14:30

foot braking and I do it a ton.

14:30

I mean a modulating the brake to

14:34

control the chassis to keep it

14:34

settled down and climbing up

14:39

over rocks. Instead of just

14:39

letting off with one foot and

14:41

hitting the brake. You can just

14:41

control it right there. So

14:44

you're not plodding around on

14:44

the rocks as much. Well, they

14:47

took that technology and put it

14:47

in a bronco also. So with one

14:50

pedal. Let's say roughly the

14:50

first 10 15% of the throttle

14:56

pedal is more brake. So you have

14:56

to add

15:00

15% throttle to start moving to

15:00

drive it through the brakes. And

15:03

then when you lift off the

15:03

throttle, it clamps down on the

15:05

brakes again. So it's it's

15:05

simulating left foot braking.

15:10

In, do they control it through

15:10

like through like a torque

15:14

converter like it like is it

15:14

very it's, it's all through

15:18

braking, huh? So it's fun, like

15:23

one of the people, one of the

15:23

engineers called the brake

15:26

pedal, the brake pedal

15:26

simulator, which it kills me

15:29

because it's, it's not brake by

15:29

wire, but it's almost brake by

15:33

wire. So now you can unlock all

15:33

these features like trail turn

15:37

assist, like one pedal through

15:37

technology. So that brings up my

15:42

next question, how much of that

15:42

stuff stays involved with what

15:48

we saw unveiled out at Johnson

15:48

valley with this 4600 race

15:52

program? Right. So 4600 race

15:52

program. That's it another

15:59

awesome project that I've been

15:59

involved with for a number of

16:03

months now. And why I had, I had

16:03

a lot of meetings about

16:08

integrating this brake

16:08

technology into the 4600. And

16:14

what we finally decided is, you

16:14

know what, let's take it out.

16:17

And for now, let's go with a

16:17

just a traditional balance bar,

16:21

it's pretty advanced thing guys

16:21

are has going on, but it's not

16:25

going to require the

16:25

calibration, that this

16:29

electronic system wood. So a lot

16:29

of the things we're doing when

16:33

we're testing and, and doing

16:33

durability stuff is proving out

16:39

these systems looking for error

16:39

states. And it's, it's

16:42

unbelievable how many

16:42

configurable things there are in

16:45

a modern vehicle, it's in the

16:45

hundreds of 1000s. So you have

16:49

to weed out every case. And

16:49

honestly, for for what we're

16:53

trying to do on a timeframe with

16:53

the 4600 which is a an early

16:57

prototype Bronco, it's kind of

16:57

out of the question right now.

17:00

But if you're wondering about

17:00

racing applications, so am I

17:04

awesome. I'm glad we're our

17:04

minds are in the same spot. I

17:07

don't want to gloss over this

17:07

because I I think this is one of

17:09

the I think this is probably the

17:09

coolest thing to happen to ultra

17:13

for racing in the last decade.

17:13

And that's not that shouldn't be

17:17

taken lightly over foreign Dave

17:17

and Jeff Knoll and everybody

17:21

have really taken this industry

17:21

a place we never you know, in 10

17:26

years 12 years 13 years could

17:26

never imagine and I remember

17:30

back in the days and I know you

17:30

remember these days because you

17:33

were always running the stock

17:33

body on your on your vehicles. I

17:36

remember RJ brown running the

17:36

yellow Toyota body on his truck

17:40

and and everyone believed at

17:40

some point that the way to get

17:45

big dollars in the door big

17:45

marketing in the door was to get

17:48

the OEMs on board with rock

17:48

sports and competitive rock

17:52

sports and it was the the belief

17:52

was around you know the factory

17:56

bodying your vehicle and what do

17:56

we have? We have a bunch of

17:59

jeeps right we have every you

17:59

know everybody makes a Jeep hood

18:03

from twisted custom to to

18:03

Shannon Campbell they make

18:06

fiberglass Jeep hoods Christer

18:06

Um, and so there's a lot of Jeep

18:09

buggies out there. Not a lot of

18:09

Ford buggies, not a lot of

18:12

Toyota buggies. And here we are.

18:12

Ford an OEM now has a factory

18:20

racing program inside of the

18:20

ultra for a venue and and that

18:25

just when you think like OEM

18:25

racing, I think of like team

18:30

Honda and Tim green and those

18:30

guys that are racing baja on

18:34

dirt bikes, we didn't see it in

18:34

you know, the big vehicles you

18:37

know, now we're starting to see

18:37

Honda get involved. Jeep hasn't

18:41

been involved in racing. We've

18:41

just they've written the

18:43

coattails of racers turning

18:43

their vehicles into racers,

18:46

right. canggih stepping up now, what

18:47

was the first year Ford was in

18:51

Super involved with King of the

18:51

hammers two years ago? Oh, yeah,

18:55

this this was the second year

18:55

for involvement with King of the

18:58

hammers. And years ago, I think

18:58

maybe 2008 maybe somewhere

19:06

around there. 2007 2008. We, we

19:06

worked with Ford a bit and and

19:12

had them as a partner for our

19:12

team. And that's when we went

19:16

through and did the newer

19:16

fiberglass on our truck. And

19:21

that it's a hard sport to

19:21

understand. I think it was

19:24

harder than because it was, you

19:24

know, more eclectic when you're

19:29

just doing the the pro rock

19:29

crawling versus people

19:32

understand speed people get

19:32

speed. That's easy. So and that

19:37

that lasted a couple years and

19:37

it didn't certainly didn't end

19:40

on on bad terms, but it was you

19:40

know, kind of time to go look

19:43

elsewhere for our team and we

19:43

had a short tenure with Nissan

19:48

and short course racing, which

19:48

was awesome as well. But I guess

19:52

you know, kind of where we're at

19:52

now with Ford. I mean, there's

19:56

there is a lot of technical

19:56

expertise

20:00

He's that that gets traded back

20:00

and forth between us race guys

20:03

and the engineers, and it's

20:03

certainly a lot more than a

20:08

marketing exercise. Yeah, absolutely. But you, when

20:10

you back into it, though, it's

20:14

still at this level, it's still

20:14

all has to be a marketing

20:17

exercise for the OEM to to get

20:17

involved. Obviously, there's a

20:22

lot of engineering and trial by

20:22

fire and there's no better

20:25

testbed then in between the

20:25

green flag and the checkered

20:27

flag. I mean, that goes back

20:27

back to all automotive racing

20:31

you know, the developed even in

20:31

a NASCAR developed an f1. And,

20:35

and how we see the trickle down

20:35

on like, just the brake systems

20:38

going from there at the top to

20:38

the OEM, and you see the boil

20:41

down, you see, if this thing can

20:41

survive 24 hours of Oman's, then

20:46

it's damn well better be good

20:46

for this Mercedes. Right? Well,

20:50

the thing that is really

20:50

important to note about the the

20:53

4600 it's, it's built by geyser

20:53

and obviously you know, I've had

20:57

some influence in IT consulting

20:57

on it but to me it's very much a

21:02

Ford vehicle there are Ford

21:02

engineers reviewing all the

21:06

designs and and I'm sitting in

21:06

meetings talking about different

21:10

aspects of racing and off road

21:10

racing, specifically and then

21:14

rock sports. You know, it's it's

21:14

hard to understand these guys

21:18

have all the right answers they

21:18

have. They're the smartest guys

21:21

in the room, but they have to

21:21

understand off road and then

21:26

rock sports on top of that so

21:26

that's kind of where I've been

21:29

involved but the big thing that

21:29

I think everybody should realize

21:32

this is a Ford Bronco This is

21:32

designed by Ford and signed off

21:38

by Ford it's not like for giving

21:38

me a bronco and hey go you know

21:43

build it however you want to

21:43

build it. So that's really kind

21:46

of what makes this program

21:46

special I think so for the

21:50

people that don't know we're talking about you know guys or guys or brothers out of there in

21:52

Phoenix long pedigree trophy

21:56

trucks basically the who's if

21:56

they've raced trophy truck they

22:00

raced it in a geyser at one point people referred to

22:02

the trophy truck classes like

22:05

guys are spectrum class there's

22:05

been some you know, some

22:09

diversion there and and a lot of

22:09

other people have stepped up to

22:12

the plate light you know Mason

22:12

and then you know like Jason

22:15

moss has his own guys building

22:15

trucks and then the TSC o trucks

22:21

herps building their own stuff

22:21

but they're for the longest time

22:24

it was geyser geyser geyser How

22:24

did that relationship come to

22:28

fruition between Ford and geyser

22:28

that's a really cool marriage

22:32

yeah so for did a lot of

22:32

homework a lot of sniffing

22:37

around a few years ago and and

22:37

settled on geyser is there you

22:43

know factory builder let's say

22:43

so guys are built the bronco are

22:48

which is really kept under wraps

22:48

and then is hammered steel and

22:52

yeah this one y'all raced in

22:52

Baja Yep. So So Bronco are was

22:58

more of a conceptual vehicle

22:58

let's say or they had more

23:02

liberties versus this stock

23:02

class 4600 so it had a

23:07

fiberglass body which later

23:07

carbon fiber body this beautiful

23:12

mold and a lot of work going on

23:12

there. But yeah, guys are built

23:16

that vehicle and then Cameron

23:16

steel and desert assassins were

23:20

in charge of running it down in

23:20

Baja. So that's an effort where

23:25

I first got involved with Ford

23:25

Racing. I went down there we had

23:29

a bunch of drivers Cameron,

23:29

myself Jason shear Shelby Hall,

23:34

Rod Hall's granddaughter,

23:34

currently Duke Johnny Campbell,

23:39

who was pretty, pretty amazing

23:39

guy. He's done a lot down there.

23:43

Oh and Steve Auguste Steve

23:43

August's is a trophy truck guy

23:47

and owns team Ford out of Vegas

23:47

and I would highly suggest him

23:52

if you want to go buy a bronco

23:52

Yeah, all I guess Ford there in

23:54

Las Vegas. Yep. You almost named

23:54

like it almost sounds like an

23:58

offer to Hall of Fame list

23:58

there. It It was totally out of

24:01

shape. Why I think we needed

24:01

something like 21 fire seats. By

24:06

the time it's all said and done.

24:06

Oh, that's amazing. And

24:08

honestly, you know, we didn't

24:08

finish the race and it bums me

24:11

out. And there's a lot of little

24:11

things that happened. It was wet

24:16

down there that year too. You

24:16

get it you get these fluke deals

24:19

that happen I mean, in in my

24:19

stage has taken it through the

24:22

mountains and we there's a three

24:22

seater. This is the first year

24:26

so is a three seater. And what

24:26

happened? Well, Steve, all his

24:30

said, gotten into something and

24:30

ripped up part of the skidplate.

24:33

So they handed it off to me. And

24:33

I caught the skid plate on

24:37

something else. I got stuck in

24:37

this muddy awful Creek and had

24:42

to get a little tug back. So

24:42

then this is up above Mike Sky

24:46

Ranch. And then I'm coming down

24:46

out of there and you could hear

24:48

the skid plate hidden. And I'm

24:48

thinking hey, it's no problem

24:52

because it's just gonna bend the

24:52

skid plate back up and off we

24:54

go. Well, it ended up being

24:54

somehow the front of the skid

24:59

plate. bent down. And so it was getting

25:00

worse and worse. And finally it

25:04

folded all the way over itself

25:04

up behind the transmission

25:08

transfer case, into the drive

25:08

shaft and transmission lines,

25:12

cut the transmission lines. So

25:16

so we're out there in the middle

25:16

of the night. I mean, his pitch

25:20

dark, we had to stop in this Oak

25:20

Grove. And the transmission

25:25

isn't really serviceable. It

25:25

doesn't have a dipstick. So you

25:29

know, it's a modern vehicle. And

25:29

so what it does have is a plug

25:33

that you can undo, but we

25:33

couldn't find it because the

25:35

whole thing was covered in mud.

25:35

And finally, anyway, we found it

25:39

and we found a way to bypass the

25:39

lines. But we needed a way to

25:43

fill the transmission because

25:43

it's way down there. You know,

25:46

it'd be like, imagine where the

25:46

dipstick goes in on a

25:48

transmission. It was like that,

25:48

but there was no long extension.

25:52

And we didn't have a funnel. So

25:52

we're thinking we're thinking

25:55

and finally, you know, super

25:55

bright for an engineer says,

25:59

Hey, Brad, use your catheter. So

26:03

I had to peel my catheter off,

26:03

and we use my catheter to fill

26:06

the transmission, sealed it up

26:06

and get on down the road. But

26:10

what an amazing triage story. I got to hand it to him because

26:14

I was trying to make a funnel

26:17

out of duct tape or gorilla tape

26:17

and I couldn't get it. So yeah,

26:21

that was awesome. But boy, I

26:21

sure remember it being dark and

26:24

one truck stop, see if we're all

26:24

right. And then he started going

26:27

again and pushed off the road.

26:27

And then we had to get him

26:30

unstuck is is one of those baja

26:30

nights, you know, everything's

26:34

wacko. Wow. Amazing. Yeah, I

26:34

picture like the scene from like

26:38

Apollo 13. where, you know, it's

26:38

like, Gary Sinise plays the

26:42

astronaut that doesn't go up and

26:42

they're like, Okay, this is all

26:45

they have. And he goes through all the

26:47

scenarios. That's the Ford

26:49

engineer going, Hey, they got a

26:49

race catheter. Hey, Brad. peel

26:52

that off. You said, exactly. So

26:52

But hey, awesome idea. It worked

26:56

great. It took a little time.

26:56

But whatever. Well, I love it.

27:00

Well, so let's jump back. Let's

27:00

jump all the way back to Brad

27:03

leveling growing up. And so

27:03

you're from Colorado Springs

27:06

area, you live there. Now you

27:06

and your wife and you've got a

27:09

you got a bunch of boys, a

27:09

message of, you know, something

27:14

that I've I always loved about

27:14

your program was, you know, your

27:18

mother was at every race and

27:18

then, you know, I don't I don't

27:23

know what you call judge. Judge

27:23

stepfather is what? Yeah.

27:28

And they were at everything. You

27:28

had this amazing support. You

27:31

know, I love my dad, my dad

27:31

won't come braces though.

27:35

And then my wife is like, I just

27:35

don't do offroad to begin with.

27:39

So you know, when for offered

27:39

for me. It's you know, it's a

27:42

kind of a solo affair, versus

27:42

you. It's always this big family

27:46

family event. And this year on

27:46

your finish when you came across

27:52

the finish line hammer King had

27:52

done a, you know, a really,

27:56

really nice video about your

27:56

mom. And

28:01

I'm sorry about you know, that

28:01

you've, you've lost both of them

28:04

and in, you know, in less than

28:04

six months. Very sorry for your

28:08

losses. Oh, thank you. I found

28:08

that the levels and level

28:12

brother race, you guys have

28:12

this. It's this family affair

28:16

for you guys. And that's not for

28:16

everybody. I can't say that I've

28:19

cried on the podium before but

28:19

it was really touching to have

28:24

rob my brother there and and see

28:24

her picture up on the big screen

28:29

that that was that was pretty emotional. And,

28:32

and I was certainly thinking

28:36

about her during the race. We

28:36

didn't talk about it. But I know

28:38

that that Roger was too. And it

28:38

was it's been tough. She her and

28:44

my stepdad Judd have lived with

28:44

us for the last couple years and

28:48

my mom developed dementia and

28:48

dementia is a tough thing to

28:54

deal with. And finally it It

28:54

took her on the 12th of January

28:59

so and it didn't make it any

28:59

easier getting ready for King of

29:03

the hammers or are trying to

29:03

figure some of that out but i i

29:07

know that she would she would

29:07

have wanted us to go and and my

29:12

stepdad Judd still wanted to go

29:12

and it wasn't at all the right

29:17

decision for him. But he was

29:17

bound and determined. You know,

29:20

he's following us around the

29:20

whole country with my mom in a

29:24

pickup in a fifth wheel and he

29:24

was ready to load up his pickup

29:28

and fifth wheel and follow us

29:28

out and I we just we couldn't do

29:32

it. We just couldn't make it

29:32

work for him. But he he passed

29:36

away a couple weeks ago here now

29:36

from from cancer. So it's a it's

29:43

the end of an era for our team.

29:43

Obviously in it. It sucks and

29:49

one of my friends at AMS Oh sit

29:49

at the best that has the chance

29:52

to start a newer. He's right.

29:52

But I don't know and you know,

29:57

you you get through it. It's

29:57

okay.

30:00

day to day. But I think what I

30:00

keep trying to tell myself is

30:04

you have to take it slow enough

30:04

to deal with it year over year

30:06

and think about how it really

30:06

affects things because it they

30:10

did go to so many other races

30:10

with us so many short course

30:14

races and they towed to North

30:14

Carolina, they'd towed a

30:19

Michigan and King of the hammers

30:19

and go to everything. We

30:24

couldn't talk them out of it,

30:24

even if this bad idea, which

30:26

does bring me to a maybe a

30:26

little lighter story, but I

30:31

think maybe they know they, they

30:31

went to pick up JT in Charlotte,

30:37

North Carolina, one year for a

30:37

torque race down there. So they

30:41

went to the airport to pick up

30:41

JT and then we had another crew

30:45

member flying in a couple hours

30:45

later. So what does JT do says,

30:49

hey, let's go get a beer. So

30:49

they take off and they find JT

30:53

finds a local bar on his on his

30:53

phone there and they they walk

30:57

into the bar without realizing

30:57

it was called the tool shed or

31:01

something like that, and took

31:01

one look in there. And it wasn't

31:05

the right kind of bar for them.

31:05

So they just turned around and

31:07

walked right on out. Oh, yeah.

31:07

JT is one of the few people

31:11

who've been to a gay bar with my

31:11

mom. I guess. That's Jake, he's

31:16

people that he sniffed it out to that he's

31:20

gonna hear this and he's gonna

31:25

give us the knife edge, you

31:25

know? Yeah. Yeah. You know, my

31:31

involvement with you guys, JT is

31:31

who got me, you know, introduced

31:34

us and I came up to a couple

31:34

short course races and helped

31:37

you guys and really got to know

31:37

you know, your mom and dad

31:39

really, really well. And john

31:39

always had his camera, he was

31:43

always taking pictures, everything your mom was always trying to feed everybody, making

31:45

sure everyone was comfortable

31:49

and fed and nourished and are

31:49

hydrated. And then Judd was

31:54

there right there with the

31:54

camera taking a picture. So you

31:57

guys have always had this, you

31:57

know, in house media for

32:00

forever. And I I miss it, you

32:00

know, we go out to the races now

32:05

and it's like he's doing food

32:05

cuz I don't, I don't do food.

32:09

I'm sorry, I don't do it. So we

32:09

got it. You know, it's always a

32:12

struggle to figure out who's

32:12

gonna throw themselves on the,

32:16

on the coals there and worry

32:16

about food for our team. But

32:19

it's it's been a lot of fun over

32:19

the over the years racing with

32:24

JT we used to race against him

32:24

and then for a lot of years

32:27

before he got involved with

32:27

ultra for he was part of the

32:30

short course team, you know,

32:30

spotter and crew chief and

32:33

really did a lot for us. And

32:33

those are, those are, those are

32:36

all fun times. It's, you know,

32:36

it's the another era. But we did

32:42

eight years a short course

32:42

between pro lite and pro two and

32:45

had a lot of fun doing it. We're

32:45

gonna get we're still gonna get

32:48

there. That's, that's a whole

32:48

that gets a couple chapters of

32:52

its own. So yeah, so you guys,

32:52

you grown up in Colorado

32:56

Springs, you and your your

32:56

brother, Roger, and then at what

33:00

point? Did you guys both You

33:00

mean, you had a ranger? He had a

33:06

bronco, too. And you guys of

33:06

course be in Colorado, you guys

33:09

got to exploring is that kind of

33:09

what the insert is and how you

33:14

guys end up it? You know,

33:14

adventure some because I know

33:16

you guys have done some trade

33:16

that you'll have to describe

33:19

this or explain this here in a

33:19

little bit. Or now even you guys

33:22

drove from like one side of the

33:22

state to the west side of the

33:24

state without doing pavement and

33:24

some stuff a couple times. Yeah.

33:28

So the thing growing up, I can

33:28

remember being a kid and

33:33

watching the Baja 1000 and

33:33

thinking, Oh, that's what I want

33:36

to do. That's for me. But my dad

33:36

was a stockbroker. And my mom

33:42

stayed at home to raise us and

33:42

it never felt like it was

33:46

something that was ever an

33:46

option. You know, it just is

33:48

like, hey, that's that's not for

33:48

me. That's not my wife. And we

33:51

go camping as a family in the

33:51

mountains, and we had an 88

33:55

start in 83 Bronco, and then an

33:55

88 Bronco. And we go bounce

34:00

around in the back of that and

34:00

then we always want my dad to go

34:04

further and try harder and he

34:04

had you know, he was he was

34:08

smarter than us so he never

34:08

wanted to go too far. But what

34:11

he did is he left a drive within

34:11

me and Roger to go further and

34:15

go see things so he he got his

34:15

Bronco to and he's 16 he still

34:20

has it by the way he's I

34:20

narrowed it solid axles

34:24

everything in the world he can

34:24

do to abraca two, it's awesome.

34:27

And I got a I got a ranger three

34:27

years later so then we go

34:31

camping and my cousin mark and

34:31

our buddy Dave, and we'd go

34:35

wherever we could to go up to

34:35

mines to try rougher roads to do

34:41

stuff like that do Holy Cross

34:41

here. That was a big deal on

34:44

Mount Blanca and all these

34:44

trails that would be easy for a

34:48

more capable vehicle. Now it was

34:48

a lot different back then. So

34:52

eventually, I don't know we went

34:52

to we started going to Moab.

34:56

That was a big deal. I guess I

34:56

was close when I was in college.

35:00

They're gonna remember I went

35:00

with one of my college buddies

35:02

for the very first time. And we

35:02

came around to the bottom of

35:05

Moab rim and it was just he and

35:05

I, you know, before you cross

35:09

Devil's crack there or whatever

35:09

it is you you kind of come

35:12

around and there's a thin point

35:12

and it's steep, it's right at

35:14

the bottom. Well, like down in

35:14

the parking lot I backed into a

35:18

rock and cut my brake line. And

35:18

it's a manual so I was up there

35:22

and I pushed in the clutch and

35:22

the brakes went to the floor,

35:25

and I thought I was gonna die

35:25

Why so I you know, is we did

35:29

some trail fix and we got the

35:29

heck out of there. But you know,

35:32

that was my first experience for

35:32

Moab. So I have a lot of respect

35:35

for that that we went started

35:35

pushing ourselves in Moab and

35:39

I was right when I graduated

35:39

college, so I certainly didn't

35:42

do this stuff. When I was young.

35:42

I went to my very first rock

35:46

crawling competition. I just, I

35:46

took it I went to the University

35:50

of Wyoming so I just took a trip

35:50

all by myself. I wanted to screw

35:54

around before I got a real job.

35:54

And I went out through Wyoming

35:57

and all down through Utah and

35:57

all the back roads and saw the

36:00

national parks and timed it. So

36:00

I showed up at Cedar City at a

36:03

rock crawl. And I remember

36:03

thinking this is for me, this is

36:08

what I need to be doing. So I

36:08

drug Roger and Dave and mark

36:14

down to the first I think it was

36:14

the first Super crawl down in

36:18

Farmington Okay, maybe this

36:18

first or second i think is the

36:22

first one but but Walker Evans

36:22

is down there and all the big

36:26

guys were down there. And I

36:26

remember telling us like look,

36:28

we can do this we can beat these

36:28

guys come on, and everybody's

36:32

dragging their feet. But long

36:32

story short, we bought a Dana 60

36:35

front axle off of Craigslist

36:35

leaving town out of Farmington.

36:40

And that was the beginning of

36:40

the end for my daily driver

36:43

because we turned it into

36:43

competition Rock Crawler, and

36:46

and then I scrounge some money

36:46

together and and bought a 2002 F

36:52

250 to tow it. So you know it's

36:52

it's important to me not to to

36:58

lose my but racing and we

36:58

started we invested about five

37:02

grand and the Ranger we got I

37:02

you know, PSC was the very first

37:07

company that wanted to work with

37:07

me and wanted to like, hey,

37:10

we'll give you a discount. It's

37:10

like, Oh, this is awesome. So we

37:14

really started with kind of a

37:14

small investment and a lot of

37:18

sweat equity and went out to the

37:18

very first race the very first

37:22

rock crawl and i i bet people

37:22

remember this one is down in St.

37:25

George, who was right when you

37:25

rock and ARCA came together, and

37:29

they were going to have this big

37:29

extravaganza down there in St.

37:32

George. And it was a total

37:32

cluster. And that was our first

37:37

event and everything was messed

37:37

up. I remember driving down this

37:42

course. It wasn't wasn't any big

37:42

deal. Why but I was so messed up

37:46

about competing in front of

37:46

people or standing on the brake

37:49

pedal so hard in driving through

37:49

in my you know, the gas, my left

37:54

foot started shaking and

37:54

trembling. I couldn't hold the

37:57

brake enough. Well, that was

37:57

like one of the courses that we

38:00

finished another one we just

38:00

actually is my very first one. I

38:03

noticed into got stuck, didn't

38:03

even get the back we'll see the

38:06

start date is timed out. And

38:06

then I is later that day or the

38:11

next day. We're trying to climb

38:11

up on this big cliff and Rogers

38:15

up there pulling on the toe

38:15

strap. I ended up going over

38:17

backwards and he got flung off

38:17

the rock broke his fingers. So

38:22

my cousin Mark had to step in he

38:22

he came in, in this this course

38:26

with cones everywhere. Well, he

38:26

he got up there and accidentally

38:29

kicked over like three cones.

38:29

And then I drove over another

38:32

one. So we're done with that

38:32

course. But as it worked out,

38:36

they you know, they were only

38:36

able to score two courses that

38:40

day or something. And we ended

38:40

up winning the event. I was like

38:44

how the hell that happened. So

38:44

we won that event. We won. When

38:48

was the rest of the events that

38:48

season and got second at

38:51

Supercross that year so it was

38:51

one of the one was that like

38:57

oh 4030404 got it. I know. It

38:57

seems like a very I mean, it is

39:03

a really long time ago that 17

39:03

years, just for those keeping

39:06

metalia at home. But when we

39:06

went from like oh four from that

39:11

to you got your in a unit

39:11

flashed up with torch mate

39:15

somewhere along the path and end

39:15

up in a 7200 truck racing with

39:20

Bill Coons shortly thereafter, I

39:20

mean, how did it Yeah, we're

39:26

just getting once again. It's all part of the story. And

39:29

I just saw that bill just bought

39:35

back the twin traction beam car

39:35

from JT which is is kind of

39:40

exciting. So is that is that is

39:40

that publicly out there? I mean,

39:43

it's gonna be probably up there

39:43

on this airs But well, I I've

39:47

read it on Facebook. So okay, so

39:47

good. Okay, saying it.

39:52

But, um, so we, you know, I

39:52

guess I got to talk about torch

39:58

mate, I got to talk about the fact I quit my job in 2006. You know,

40:00

it's like holy cow in 2004. We

40:05

figured we could make some money

40:05

doing this rock crawl and stuff.

40:08

And all we had to do is just

40:08

Roger and I and my mom and I

40:13

enjoyed for that matter going

40:13

out to races here. And there,

40:17

really, it was cheap, you could

40:17

win some money, and he could get

40:20

some sponsors. And so we kind of

40:20

piddle along eventually, we got

40:26

a little sponsorship here and

40:26

there for some cash. It's like,

40:29

wow, we got we got it made. And

40:29

then I really, I feel like I

40:33

kind of landed the whale. We got

40:33

a sponsorship from fabtech that

40:38

was kind of a big deal. That was

40:38

enough, has enough money to get

40:40

us in trouble, I guess. But that

40:40

was around the time of our Ford

40:44

Association and things are

40:44

really going great. And

40:48

you know, I, I got married, and

40:48

then it's time to have kids and

40:53

holy cow, we're pregnant with

40:53

twins, you know. So I was in

40:57

this point where I'm going to be

40:57

a dad. And that takes time. And

41:01

and I have a career job. And I

41:01

want to go racing. And it was

41:07

not easy for me by any means.

41:07

But Natalie supported me to quit

41:12

my job and go racing. And I

41:12

think that's where I, you know,

41:16

you ask who inspires me the

41:16

most, and it's my wife, and then

41:20

she's given me so much

41:20

opportunity. But well, there's a

41:24

lot to unpack there. There's

41:24

lots of how did how did you and

41:27

Natalie meet. That's actually it, I was doing a

41:30

subdivision review for the city

41:35

like reviewing all this

41:35

infrastructure that goes in and,

41:39

and she worked out at the

41:39

airport. So I had to, you know,

41:42

there's all these

41:42

intergovernmental agreements,

41:44

and it's like, Brad go out there

41:44

to the airport, they're doing

41:47

something just kind of rubber

41:47

stamp it? Well, I saw Natalie

41:51

out there and kind of get to

41:51

know her. And she's managing the

41:54

project and everything. It's

41:54

like, Yeah, I don't know, let's

41:57

see, I'm gonna have to be pretty

41:57

involved in this project.

42:01

Right? Like, I want to know her.

42:01

So so you graduate from

42:04

University of Wyoming, you

42:04

you're an engineer by trade. And

42:07

so you actually, when you

42:07

graduate, you actually are one

42:10

of those guys actually got a job

42:10

doing what you went to school

42:12

for? I did, yeah, I

42:16

actually, you know, Roger, and I

42:16

get the same degree, one, same

42:19

school. And for a while we were

42:19

working at the same place

42:22

designing precast concrete

42:22

buildings, like a lot of parking

42:27

garages are precast. But it's

42:27

all stuff that's developed in a

42:30

yard, and then gets shipped to

42:30

wherever it's going. And it gets

42:33

welded together. But at that

42:33

point, where is all two

42:36

dimensional CAD, so it was

42:36

really like putting all these

42:39

puzzles together, doing the

42:39

design work. And then

42:42

engineering it your engineering

42:42

welds and plate thicknesses and

42:47

rebar sizes and stuff like that.

42:47

So yeah, I did that for a few

42:51

years, and then our dad passed

42:51

away. And that was around 2000.

42:57

And, you know, I just, I got the

42:57

bug that life is too short. So

43:01

at that point, I actually quit

43:01

my job. And I went to quite a

43:06

lot of things, apparently, why I

43:06

quit my job. And I went to

43:09

Australia, and I bought a 1978,

43:09

Land Rover, and I drove across

43:15

the whole country, continent,

43:15

whatever you want to call it.

43:18

And I think that, that, that

43:18

kind of get my head a little bit

43:21

straight about what I wanted to

43:21

do. So, you know, there's

43:25

there's Matthew McConaughey just put out

43:27

his book called green lights.

43:30

And, and I've listened to enough

43:30

I'm not a good reader, I

43:34

listened to things. And he did

43:34

like a year in Australia as like

43:39

an exchange student, and what

43:39

Australia did for him and helped

43:43

him get his head on right and

43:43

settle him down. And goal orient

43:49

him basically just reset the

43:49

compass back to a true north.

43:53

Sounds very similar. What it

43:53

taught me is you have to follow

43:58

your your passion, you have to

43:58

follow what you care about and

44:01

your pride. And you can't cheat

44:01

yourself, you're just not going

44:05

to be happy. And sometimes

44:05

you're your own path that might

44:09

not be the easiest path or the

44:09

most profitable path. But if you

44:12

love doing what you're doing,

44:12

you're going to be alright, so

44:16

you went on walk about going on

44:16

a walkabout and I I bought that

44:19

thing for maybe three grand and

44:19

sold it for for a couple 1000 I

44:25

one point I stopped just out in

44:25

the middle of I mean, absolutely

44:28

nowhere, and I drove about a

44:28

mile off the road and I just

44:32

camped all by myself, which it

44:32

sounds easy to talk about, but

44:35

man it's different when you're a

44:35

kid and you're all by yourself

44:38

and I want to challenge myself

44:38

and I really wanted me and I

44:41

wanted to do so many the long

44:41

distance tracks out there, but

44:44

you have to like helicopter and

44:44

fuel and stuff like that. So I

44:48

did some of them saw some

44:48

amazing stuff and and when I got

44:53

back I that's when I ended up

44:53

getting the job of the city and

44:57

there's all right, it's good

44:57

money at the time.

45:00

allowed me to do what I wanted

45:00

to do which was which is go rock

45:03

crawling. And and we go on a

45:03

bunch of fun trips back then

45:08

like, you know so many

45:08

enthusiasts do now. And then so

45:12

you meet Natalie. You guys have

45:12

of course now been married for

45:17

it seems like forever but it's

45:17

not forever. Yeah, well I met

45:21

Natalie when I was building our

45:21

first Ranger, you know, the, the

45:25

one that kind of started at all

45:25

which is still running around

45:27

out there. Yeah. And and we got

45:27

married and then I was rock

45:31

crawling for a little bit and

45:31

thinking I was busy. Which boy,

45:35

it sure seems simple now. But

45:35

yeah, we're doing the Yurok

45:40

series did some we rock and

45:40

we're, we're winning races and

45:43

we're making money doing it. And

45:43

if it wasn't for rock crawling,

45:49

there's no way that we'd have a

45:49

Motorsports team today because

45:52

it's so hard to get into. And so

45:52

hard to get out of. But yeah,

45:56

started doing that. And then

45:56

reached the point where, you

46:00

know, we had an all right

46:00

sponsorship with fabtech. And

46:03

it's like, look, I think I can

46:03

quit my job and make a go at

46:06

this. So the the day the kids

46:06

were born, I quit my job. And

46:11

off I go to be a professional

46:11

racer, and, and it's certainly

46:15

been the most rewarding. And

46:15

it's also been the hardest time

46:19

in my life for sure. I mean, not

46:19

not making money worrying about

46:24

paying the mortgage. With time

46:24

with deadlines, you know, races

46:28

don't wait. You can you can push

46:28

the project off, but races don't

46:32

wait. So you have to be ready.

46:32

You gotta be ready for the green

46:35

flag. So your two boys out of

46:35

them by him? How old are they

46:40

now? 14. Now they're 14. So

46:40

they're almost 15. So that's 15

46:45

years ago, that did I quit and

46:45

they're, they're

46:50

their little bandits. We just

46:50

built a new shop here. We've got

46:55

it functional around the end of

46:55

last year. I think they're both

46:59

out right now welding on a cage

46:59

for a UTV prerunner we're doing.

47:04

So they, they very much they

47:04

love working in the shop. They

47:08

like being around it. But one

47:08

thing that that I've kind of

47:13

been pretty staunch about is I

47:13

don't want or need to raise

47:18

mirror images of myself and I so

47:18

I you know, early on, everybody

47:21

said Oh, they're gonna race

47:21

they're gonna race. Well, I sure

47:25

I want him to race. But what I

47:25

really want him to do is is fine

47:28

what I found, which is something

47:28

that I'm absolutely passionate

47:32

about. And I have pride in the

47:32

fact that it's been built by

47:37

Roger and I'm in our family. So

47:37

I don't I don't want to just

47:41

hand him or set them up to be

47:41

predestined racers. I'd love to

47:47

use the the cars we have or the

47:47

contacts we have to help them

47:52

along. But ultimately they need

47:52

to find what's what in life is

47:55

going to drive them. I think

47:55

that's the most insightful words

47:59

I've heard from anyone in a long

47:59

time is that yeah, i i'd love

48:04

it. If my son was wanting to be

48:04

racer, he doesn't. He liked that

48:07

he has no interest. It's it's,

48:07

it's crazy. And I've told this

48:11

story numerous times, you know,

48:11

we we went up to Midlothian to

48:15

textbooks race and he's got both

48:15

of the the Miller boys you know,

48:21

you know, Hunter and his brother

48:21

and and Kyle cheney was there

48:25

and Dustin Jones and Kyle Hart,

48:25

Marty Hart son, Uriel these

48:30

these are the you know, the the

48:30

20 somethings, sorry, I'm

48:34

throwing the Millers into your

48:34

20s are in their 30s. But you

48:37

know, these are the guys that

48:37

are you know, their factory

48:39

cannamd drivers are their

48:39

national champions. This is like

48:42

the best kind of the best of the

48:42

best in UTV racing right now.

48:45

And my boy West, he's standing

48:45

right there with them. And

48:47

they're like, Hey, we're gonna

48:47

get you in one of these. And

48:50

he's like, he's like, no, I play baseball. And I equate it to be like, if

48:53

he was you're invited to like a

48:57

quarterback camp and it's like

48:57

Tom Brady and, and company and

49:00

mahomes standing around and they

49:00

look at they look at my boy was

49:03

like, hey, you'd be a

49:03

quarterback. And I'm like, Nah,

49:07

man, I like doing this. You know, the, like I said, I

49:10

think you got to follow your own

49:14

path. And for me, I didn't my

49:14

first Rock Crawler is 26 years

49:18

old and I I love racing. But I

49:18

you know, there's more to life

49:21

than just racing, I think and

49:21

it's it's certainly been my

49:26

passion and been what I'm about.

49:26

But also when I'm done racing,

49:31

I'm gonna go right back to off

49:31

roading recreationally and

49:35

exploring and you brought up the

49:35

non event or whatever you want

49:40

to call it that we've done a

49:40

couple of times, which is the

49:44

amsoil expedition Colorado and

49:44

that that started out because we

49:49

had a stacker trailer going out

49:49

to all the short course races

49:53

and we had a UTV with the top

49:53

chopped off to use a pit vehicle

49:57

and it just after a while

50:00

It struck me it's like Why? Why

50:00

are we taking a UTV out? I love

50:03

Willys jeeps. So it's like we

50:03

could get a Willys roll down or

50:06

fold down the windshield, put on

50:06

top of the stacker, and you have

50:09

the same thing and it's street

50:09

legal. So we can go out to

50:12

dinner, we can get away from the

50:12

track, do whatever. So I found

50:16

it took a lot of looking but I

50:16

found a 43 Willys MB that came

50:21

out of the museum here, there's

50:21

in pretty good shape, boys, and

50:24

I rebuilt the motor and went

50:24

through everything on it. So

50:27

then we had that and boy, it

50:27

sure was fun out of CRAN. And we

50:29

could go exploring and do all

50:29

kinds of stuff. And then we

50:32

figured, wouldn't it be cool to

50:32

drive across the Rocky Mountains

50:36

or go to Moab or something and take that Jeep, and the

50:39

safest way to do it is taking it

50:44

on on all the back passes and,

50:44

and remote roads. And that kind

50:49

of goes back to like a kid when

50:49

I was camping. I always wanted

50:52

to see what's over the next pass

50:52

what's over the horizon. So we

50:56

got on Google Earth and laid out

50:56

a route and look for absolutely

51:01

as much dirt as we could find

51:01

and the hardest passes and all

51:05

this stuff. So Roger, and myself

51:05

and Jake, who worked with us,

51:12

just is just a handful of us and

51:12

we

51:15

we just set off the idea being

51:15

you know, you're trying to

51:19

rewind life you're trying to

51:19

find challenge close to home.

51:22

This bar has a long ways away,

51:22

it costs a lot of money. And

51:25

there is adventure close to

51:25

home. So I didn't purposely I

51:28

didn't do a whole bunch of

51:28

research or anything beforehand.

51:31

But I did have a route. Well,

51:31

it's surprising how many roads

51:35

you can see from an airplane or

51:35

on Google Earth that are closed

51:39

or gated or private or I still

51:39

don't know why it but God we hit

51:45

so many gates and so many

51:45

issues. So we'd have to turn

51:49

around find another route go

51:49

around the gate. And it came to

51:53

total fruition when we got on

51:53

pro pass pretty much the highest

51:57

point and it was just flat out

51:57

snowed off. So we had to go all

52:01

in. It's like you get days

52:01

behind. It's crazy. But we did

52:05

make it to Moab. We got to Moab.

52:05

And we finally set up camp and

52:09

as I call man, we made it we're

52:09

camping up on sand flats. And we

52:13

were watching this storm roll

52:13

roll by and I remember telling

52:16

everybody it was to the east.

52:16

Everything goes from west to

52:19

east out here. Don't worry about

52:19

it. No is coming our way in it.

52:23

Just I'm in a torrential rain

52:23

drowned out our camp, and it got

52:27

dark. And we were absolutely

52:27

soaked. The only place we can

52:31

think of going is grandpa's

52:31

garage. So we go to grandpa's

52:34

garage. And you know after this

52:34

trip I'll never forget because

52:38

there's we were sitting there

52:38

shivering and there was one

52:42

piece of cardboard in a loft and

52:42

we're fighting over the

52:45

cardboard who gets sleep on the

52:45

cardboard kids curled up in the

52:48

loft. I slept on concrete that

52:48

night that but what a trip. So

52:52

we've we've done that when we

52:52

came back from Moab to Colorado

52:56

Springs. And on that particular

52:56

trip, I lost the starter gear

53:00

like 10 miles in and that Jeep

53:00

vapor locks all the time. So

53:04

that one was hard fought. And

53:04

then we did one going from Grand

53:08

Junction all the way up around

53:08

through Moab down through the

53:13

San Juan's to Lake City. So it's

53:13

been a lot of fun. And I think

53:17

we'll probably put something

53:17

together this summer. What

53:19

reminds me of you know, like

53:19

these expedition off roads or

53:22

that are going on, I bet you can

53:22

get people to follow you.

53:27

Yeah. But so the whole the whole

53:30

thought here is that, get out

53:34

and do it yourself. You know,

53:34

there's, there's adventure.

53:37

Like, again, if you look back to

53:37

what I was talking about in

53:40

Australia, you know, driving

53:40

across Australia is a lot

53:44

different when you're alone in

53:44

an old vehicle camping by

53:48

yourself than it is in a group.

53:48

So that's kind of something we

53:52

wanted to push about expedition

53:52

Colorado says, Hey, here's the

53:55

route, go off and do it. And

53:55

then, you know, the last time we

54:00

did, it's kind of like a

54:00

scavenger hunt. It really got

54:03

people out. But I think there's

54:03

so much adventure to be had and

54:08

just getting out and seeing some

54:08

of these things in a small group

54:11

or by yourself versus a big

54:11

trail ride, you know, well,

54:14

yeah, I think anytime you can

54:14

get your your kids involved and

54:18

get them off, you know, off the

54:18

couch off the video games out

54:21

the door in the shop, I noticed,

54:21

you know, social media is

54:24

certainly jaded to being all

54:24

positive all the time. And so

54:28

you know, it's not always it's

54:28

not always roses, even though

54:32

people may representative

54:32

presented as roses. But yeah,

54:35

you know, I always see your boys

54:35

are in the shop and I think it's

54:39

for me and it's what I see out

54:39

of my son and you know, I do

54:42

have a daughter who is very,

54:42

very, very creative. But when

54:44

you see them create something

54:44

out there. You got you get this

54:48

little, I guess window into

54:48

their mind of how they think and

54:52

how they process issues. And

54:52

you're like, Am I doing it right

54:57

like you're hesitant to say that

55:00

Knock on wood, you know, you're

55:00

not gonna live here, but you

55:03

kind of like, wow, um, they thought about that, or

55:06

they've taken that into

55:08

consideration. And they're

55:08

becoming their own little people

55:13

and they're become their own

55:13

humans and they have their own

55:15

their own drive. And, you know,

55:15

mean, you try to tilt the

55:19

playing field in their favor as

55:19

much as possible. But at the

55:22

same time, they still have to

55:22

walk across that playing field.

55:24

Yeah, well, that's, that's a

55:24

smart way to put it. And I, I

55:29

definitely feel fortunate that

55:29

we have a shop, you know, for a

55:32

while, we had a smaller shop at

55:32

our last house and employees

55:36

running in and out of there, and

55:36

there really wasn't much room

55:39

for the kids to do what they

55:39

wanted to do. And so, during

55:44

COVID, we, we bought a house a

55:44

little bit before that, and had

55:49

to shut down the shop for a

55:49

little bit. But right when COVID

55:52

hit about a year ago, we started

55:52

building a new shop, and we got

55:56

an awesome shop now that has

55:56

space for the kids to spread out

56:00

and do what they want to do. And

56:00

I, I can see their expression

56:03

through what they do, but also

56:03

how they drive and that's what

56:07

has been really exciting to me,

56:07

is just watching them drive it's

56:12

a window into their soul. And

56:12

you can see where they're

56:15

confident where they're not

56:15

where they're questioning. So

56:18

that's it's been a lot of fun.

56:18

We, over the past couple years,

56:22

we've raised the bar 500 in a

56:22

Polaris in the stock class, we,

56:28

you know, I don't have a need to

56:28

be highfalutin, I guess and

56:33

there's nothing wrong with going

56:33

out and racing a stock vehicle.

56:35

And that's where I think these

56:35

guys should start. And both

56:39

years we raced with Roger and

56:39

his son Parker and my two boys

56:44

and rotating them through the

56:44

car. And it's it's just been

56:47

quite an adventure night. I

56:47

don't know, is it gonna be this

56:50

year again? I don't know. We'll

56:50

see. I it's hard to keep all

56:53

these mechanical bits moving,

56:53

you know, right. Yeah, I mean,

56:58

but it's so cool to be able to

56:58

do that and share to be able to

57:01

share baja with your kids, I

57:01

think is amazing how you guys

57:05

are doing it. So you mentioned

57:05

you brought in your new house

57:08

grab a new one in the past year

57:08

and is she still this very

57:12

project oriented? She picks out

57:12

something and she just wears you

57:15

wears you down with landscaping

57:15

or the repaint or adding a room

57:21

or is she still Yeah, same

57:21

Natalie apparently you've seen

57:24

her Facebook page but she you

57:24

know, I spend a lot of time on

57:29

the road and racing takes a lot

57:29

of time. And she is not willing

57:32

to let life or project slow down

57:32

around the house. So yeah, I've

57:38

left and and we got a pond in

57:38

the backyard or one time is hot.

57:43

Or we got a I don't know a

57:43

detached patio, new gardens pop

57:49

up. So she buys trees like their

57:49

Tic Tac. Plants need trees and

57:54

but all in all, I can't complain

57:54

too much. Because that gets

57:58

those projects done. Why? Yeah,

57:58

the knockout. You're like, hey,

58:01

look what Yeah, Merry Christmas

58:01

to be. Yeah. So I wanted to kind

58:05

of you know, jump back in the

58:05

chronological of racing with

58:08

you. So 15 years ago, you know,

58:08

you quit the nine to five grind

58:13

or whatever, but you didn't I

58:13

mean, you guys were already

58:15

working around the clock. If you

58:15

weren't at work for somebody,

58:18

you were home, working on your

58:18

cars, building race cars, you

58:21

know, competing and then

58:21

different genres are running

58:25

across you guys in zarei. I

58:25

brought up the bill Coons deal

58:28

with a 7200 truck I remember

58:28

running into you guys in that

58:31

truck. in Vegas one year I don't

58:31

remember if it was maybe a

58:36

minute maybe maybe it was meant

58:36

maybe it was also Vegas Reno it

58:40

was numerous times running into

58:40

you guys that the black truck

58:43

and then you guys were you and

58:43

your brother had matching twin

58:48

Twinkie race cars. They were the same chassis now.

58:51

One of them died. In what year

58:56

2010. Roger bear rolled it at

58:56

Pikes Peak. Yeah, in practice,

59:02

and it wasn't even, you know,

59:02

competition day. This was like

59:05

it was practice. He came around.

59:05

It was a sweeping right hander.

59:10

And then just the rear washed

59:10

out. Yeah, so I guess to reflect

59:15

on all that a little bit, you

59:15

know, 2008 2009, the the economy

59:21

obviously took a nosedive and it

59:21

affected off road as much as

59:25

anybody with the housing crisis

59:25

and all that business and we're

59:30

sucking wind. So I I didn't know

59:30

what the future held and I went

59:33

and worked a construction job

59:33

for one of our sponsors and

59:37

partners for a few months and

59:37

and had the good fortune of

59:43

getting involved in torch mate.

59:43

And while everybody else was

59:46

kind of hurting with the economy

59:46

torch mate had these awesome new

59:49

plasma tables that were actually

59:49

affordable. They weren't

59:52

$100,000 pieces of equipment.

59:52

There's something you could get

59:55

in your shop and really looking

59:55

for some presence in off road.

59:59

So worked with Bill on on the race

1:00:00

team kind of managing the race

1:00:04

team and riding with him in that

1:00:04

seven truck and we had a lot of

1:00:08

good times in that truck running

1:00:08

the best in the desert series,

1:00:11

we actually, I think is oh nine,

1:00:11

we ended up second place on

1:00:16

championship points. And Bill

1:00:16

was actually my co driver in

1:00:20

2010 when we were 28 seconds out

1:00:20

of the win for King of the

1:00:23

hammers. A lot of fun there and

1:00:23

then eventually torch mate got

1:00:28

bought up by Lincoln Electric.

1:00:28

And that's what took Jeff Knoll,

1:00:33

Jeff Knoll was involved with

1:00:33

that program and kicking the

1:00:35

hammers, obviously, those who've

1:00:35

been around kicking the hammers

1:00:38

for a long time will remember

1:00:38

torch mate. They brought tables

1:00:42

CNC tables out there, they're

1:00:42

cutting parks for everybody. So

1:00:45

Jeff is actually working with

1:00:45

Lincoln Electric now. And Bill

1:00:50

walked away to Montana where he

1:00:50

always wanted to go. And like I

1:00:56

say, it's kind of interesting. I

1:00:56

just saw he gets some shop space

1:00:58

in a race car. So we'll see.

1:00:58

We'll see what happens. There is

1:01:03

part of all that. And another

1:01:03

awesome guy that was part of the

1:01:06

torch mate team was Nick Sosa.

1:01:06

Right, you're right. Yeah. And,

1:01:11

again, those have been around

1:01:11

for a while can remember Nick's

1:01:14

great spotter, and he had a

1:01:14

vehicle rollover on top of him.

1:01:19

In one of the you rock rock

1:01:19

crawls, I think it was in Salt

1:01:23

Lake City, and he got hurt

1:01:23

really bad. And the whole off

1:01:28

road community came together and

1:01:28

did a raffle to help raise money

1:01:34

for him. And so we bought a

1:01:34

bunch of tickets and lo and

1:01:37

behold, won a chassis. So we

1:01:37

went out, we went out got the

1:01:41

chassis and that chassis is

1:01:41

eventually did a lot of changes

1:01:45

to it. A lot of work on it. But

1:01:45

that's what ended up being

1:01:48

Rogers Ranger. So it was kind of

1:01:48

it ended up really being an

1:01:53

excuse to build another car. So

1:01:53

we put that together and then

1:01:56

you're remembering the year

1:01:56

which boy maybe it was 2010

1:02:00

where it miles four guys. Yeah,

1:02:00

it came out to run Pikes Peak

1:02:05

hill climb. Well, I remember the

1:02:05

road that David Dave had

1:02:09

everybody or Dave and Jeff had

1:02:09

everyone run lands and lands in

1:02:13

was a points race or something along that and that

1:02:15

was Grand Junction. And that

1:02:19

seemed to be every nobody had a

1:02:23

we all had idiot lights. Right?

1:02:23

And how many people blue motors

1:02:26

like I think Jesse Haynes blue

1:02:26

motor Ben Napier blue motor.

1:02:29

There's a lot of motors got

1:02:29

eaten, you know, climbing up a

1:02:32

mountain. Yep, indeed. But I,

1:02:32

you know, you know how it's been

1:02:37

with ultra for it's been, you

1:02:37

know, we're out to conquer the

1:02:39

world. So and that's why, you

1:02:39

know, that's why I recently

1:02:43

Crandon that's why we're doing

1:02:43

all these different events,

1:02:45

because we, you know, we're out

1:02:45

to conquer the world. And part

1:02:47

of that was doing Pikes Peak.

1:02:47

So, gosh, who all was was there

1:02:52

that year? I know. I think Dave

1:02:52

Cole was running his car and JT

1:02:57

and Roger Yoder. Oh, god,

1:02:57

they're Peterson. Yeah, Yoda was

1:03:03

there. Anyway, they're handful

1:03:03

of guys. And I was I was racing

1:03:06

the pro like that that year,

1:03:06

when it was actually during the

1:03:10

race. And I was sitting in

1:03:10

staging and I watched Roger go,

1:03:15

and then they they sent another

1:03:15

car, and then they held up the

1:03:18

order. An ambulance goes up, and

1:03:18

I'm thinking oh, my God, in it.

1:03:24

You don't you know, you're

1:03:24

sitting in a car, you can only

1:03:26

do so much and is forever. And

1:03:26

finally they brought him back

1:03:30

down. And I saw him get out and

1:03:30

hug his wife and his kid. And,

1:03:37

and he came back to the car and

1:03:37

told me so it's alright, just go

1:03:40

talk about it later. Well, I ran

1:03:40

up. And at that point, I'm

1:03:44

thinking I'm not gonna do

1:03:44

anything crazy, because I knew

1:03:46

something bad happens. And in a

1:03:46

lot of times, I think, you know,

1:03:50

one bad thing happens. Another

1:03:50

one's coming. So and I had a

1:03:53

good run up, I think it was a

1:03:53

1215 which seems pretty slow

1:03:59

compared to the standards today

1:03:59

when it's all paved, but sure

1:04:03

felt like I was hauling button

1:04:03

that prolight. So I get up top

1:04:06

and then you sit up top for the

1:04:06

rest of the day. And the only

1:04:09

place I can get cell phone

1:04:09

coverage is hike way down over

1:04:12

the side. So I called and

1:04:12

figured out kind of what

1:04:14

happened and he had gotten a

1:04:14

little loose in a turn and they

1:04:18

put shotcrete in the ditches to

1:04:18

line the ditches for erosion and

1:04:23

stuff. And he caught a tire on

1:04:23

that shotcrete in the ditch and

1:04:26

it just launched him in, rip the

1:04:26

whole sidewall out of the tire

1:04:31

and he ended up rolling straight

1:04:31

down the pavement. The way it

1:04:34

swapped up, just destroyed the

1:04:34

car. So we brought that one home

1:04:39

and took it apart. And there you

1:04:39

so I wasn't sure that if you

1:04:43

were running that prolight we're

1:04:43

gonna go into how you ended up

1:04:46

in pearlite in short course here

1:04:46

in a second but so you're

1:04:48

running the pro light and what I

1:04:48

didn't remember that it was the

1:04:50

same year at this point. But

1:04:50

what I do remember and I'm sure

1:04:54

it's still out there on YouTube,

1:04:54

is you ran my career. We call it

1:04:58

the dick cam, you know This long, long pipe that sticks

1:05:00

out the back of the car, you ran

1:05:05

it in practice off of the

1:05:05

prolight. So you got this video

1:05:09

game view, you know, like, it's

1:05:09

like third person video game

1:05:13

view looking down over the hood

1:05:13

over the roof. And you're going

1:05:18

up pikes and pikes when you get

1:05:18

above the treeline, and you have

1:05:22

the will, there's two kinds of

1:05:22

turns, right, there's an outside

1:05:24

turn an inside turn, and which

1:05:24

side of the mountains on so this

1:05:28

is an outside turn. And you

1:05:28

can't I mean, the GoPro is

1:05:33

catching nothing but 3000 feet

1:05:33

down on one right side. And

1:05:37

you're, you know, you can hear

1:05:37

the murders. As you're shifting

1:05:40

up shifting through this, it's

1:05:40

like, wow, you know, one more,

1:05:45

two more inches over to the

1:05:45

right. And you're, you're, you

1:05:48

know, you're gonna need wings?

1:05:48

Well, it definitely I put that

1:05:53

together because you have a

1:05:53

chance to practice the bottom

1:05:56

third, middle third and upper

1:05:56

third. And it's like, Hey, I'm

1:05:58

gonna, I only had one GoPro, but

1:05:58

it's like, they'd let you run a

1:06:02

boom or whatever in practice. So

1:06:02

I kept changing camera views and

1:06:05

getting all this stuff before

1:06:05

race day and you have a day off

1:06:09

or something before race day.

1:06:09

It's a brutal week, because you

1:06:11

have to get up so early to go up

1:06:11

there and practice and why I

1:06:15

remember looking at the exact

1:06:15

footage that you're talking

1:06:17

about. And I thought, oh my god,

1:06:17

what am I doing? You know,

1:06:21

because it doesn't look that way

1:06:21

when you're in the driver's

1:06:23

seat. But you get that view from

1:06:23

up high and wide angle lens and

1:06:27

it's like, Good God. So

1:06:31

yeah, I shouldn't have watched

1:06:31

that video before race day. But

1:06:35

I did that race twice. And it

1:06:35

was a lot of fun. I was all

1:06:39

geared up to do it. The third

1:06:39

year, I got, you know, full

1:06:43

blown BFG race slicks and

1:06:43

alcohol carb and had all the

1:06:48

fuel purchased. And in really,

1:06:48

you know, I had more time. It

1:06:53

was always like the week after

1:06:53

Crandon, so I had to erase

1:06:57

Crandon and deadhead home. And

1:06:57

if you don't make all the

1:07:00

practice days, you can't race

1:07:00

and I think practice was

1:07:03

Tuesday. I mean, it was brutal.

1:07:03

But anyway, this year, there was

1:07:07

time. And then we had we had

1:07:07

some big fires around here is,

1:07:11

you know, everybody is aware of

1:07:11

I'm sure. And Pikes Peak move

1:07:16

the date of the race. And it's

1:07:16

always been on top of Crandon

1:07:19

ever since this year, I guess

1:07:19

which they moved it again

1:07:22

because a COVID. So so that kind

1:07:22

of I wasn't able to race the

1:07:27

peak anymore. And now it's it's

1:07:27

getting really crazy, because

1:07:31

it's it's all tarmac and I worry

1:07:31

at some point when it's going to

1:07:35

be slow or snow or water up top.

1:07:35

And people are running slicks

1:07:40

and and launch off that road,

1:07:40

but it's always a spectacle.

1:07:44

It's a pretty cool race to have

1:07:44

locally. Yeah, I know. That's a

1:07:48

big, you know, there's, you

1:07:48

know, some some big fighting

1:07:51

about that, you know, that, you

1:07:51

know, the old records were

1:07:54

suddenly records when the road

1:07:54

was still dirt and gravel on the

1:07:57

upper sections, or even still in

1:07:57

the middle sections. And then

1:07:59

now it's, it's paved the whole

1:07:59

way. So how do you I mean, the

1:08:05

right question, you're this rock

1:08:05

guy, you're doing you rock

1:08:09

sports. And we knew about short

1:08:09

course we'd seen short course

1:08:14

which is same as all of a sudden

1:08:14

seen trophy trucks. You go out

1:08:17

and get a pro lite and that's

1:08:17

the next level for you. And you

1:08:21

start racing pro like what made

1:08:21

you

1:08:25

make that jumper? How did that

1:08:25

how did that jump happen? And

1:08:28

then let's talk about your your

1:08:28

career is short course driver

1:08:32

over the past 10 years. It

1:08:32

certainly didn't happen fast. I

1:08:37

think 2010 might have been our i

1:08:37

think is 2010 was our first

1:08:42

year. And in 2007, we went out

1:08:42

to out to prim the track out

1:08:49

there. So we flew out to Vegas,

1:08:49

my wife and Roger and I because

1:08:52

I wanted to get into short

1:08:52

course bad I didn't want to go

1:08:55

racing, you know, and this is

1:08:55

the hot stuff. And that's, you

1:08:59

know, the pinnacle of off road.

1:08:59

And we ran out there and ran

1:09:02

right up to the fence and watch

1:09:02

the car coming around and say

1:09:05

yeah, this is awesome. And then

1:09:05

we just got roosted with all the

1:09:09

the marvels and everything. So

1:09:09

you learn lessons quick, and

1:09:13

that was the same race in the

1:09:13

video is still out there. But

1:09:15

Rick Huisman, a fabtech teammate

1:09:15

of mine, those guys have done an

1:09:20

awful lot to help out our

1:09:20

program early on, but he he was

1:09:24

running his pro for across the

1:09:24

whip section. And he hit some

1:09:27

whoops wrong. And he did a

1:09:27

double front flip and landed on

1:09:32

the wheels enrolled off the

1:09:32

course and it was right about

1:09:34

the time I saw that. I said, I

1:09:34

don't think I'm ready for short

1:09:38

course yet. It took three years

1:09:38

but what I really owe it to is

1:09:41

amsoil amsoil has always been a

1:09:41

big supporter of grassroots

1:09:46

Motorsports and professional

1:09:46

Motorsports, especially in the

1:09:49

Midwest, and they were very much

1:09:49

entrenched in the torque series.

1:09:53

And we got really lucky in the

1:09:53

fact that Chad horde was moving

1:09:57

up to pro two and They were looking for a pro

1:10:00

driver. And I kept asking and

1:10:02

asking, and I know it, it

1:10:02

bothered a lot of people that

1:10:06

were in this sport already, they

1:10:06

felt like amsoil should have

1:10:09

looked within the sport, but

1:10:09

they they look to me and, and

1:10:13

I'm still really thankful for

1:10:13

that. So we bought a chassis and

1:10:18

we put it together and went out

1:10:18

and, and ran Crandon that was

1:10:23

the first race. And it was, it

1:10:23

was very humbling, because you

1:10:28

got to understand why we were

1:10:28

pretty, pretty dominant in rock

1:10:31

crawling. In all the years, I

1:10:31

can remember one event or two

1:10:35

events, there's a super crawl

1:10:35

where we better run the motor.

1:10:38

And there was an event down in

1:10:38

Houston where we just had a

1:10:42

crappy event and we got to 11th.

1:10:42

And outside of that, we're

1:10:46

pretty much on the podium, every

1:10:46

event so here I am sitting in my

1:10:51

pro life thinking about how

1:10:51

great a racecar driver I am. And

1:10:55

take off in my first race. Go

1:10:55

through turn one get halfway

1:10:59

through turn to tap a truck

1:10:59

break a tie rod, my race is

1:11:03

done. I'm thinking oh my god,

1:11:03

this is awful, you know. So that

1:11:08

was spring crane. And that was

1:11:08

the first race. The last race of

1:11:12

that year. JT came out to help

1:11:12

us probably first race JT came

1:11:17

out to help with and Rain Rain,

1:11:17

rain, no chance to go out and

1:11:21

practice nothing. And by that

1:11:21

point, I realized that I needed

1:11:24

some help. So I got I've got

1:11:24

myself a racecar driver self

1:11:27

help book. You know, one of the

1:11:27

I can't remember who wrote it,

1:11:30

but talking about race craft.

1:11:30

And one of the big pieces of

1:11:34

advice is anytime you're in a

1:11:34

race car, drive it like a race

1:11:37

car, you know, drive it to the

1:11:37

limit, don't screw around, and

1:11:43

don't get comfortable driving

1:11:43

that thing at half throttle. So,

1:11:46

okay, so I soak that up. So we

1:11:46

had one parade lap, before we go

1:11:50

around in line up for the race.

1:11:50

What do you do?

1:11:54

I throw it into the argon turn a

1:11:54

little bit hard, and I roll onto

1:12:00

the lid. And so to this day, I

1:12:00

think well I'm one of two guys

1:12:04

who've rolled on a on a parade

1:12:04

lap but so I'm upside down and

1:12:09

I'm pretty sure there's fuel

1:12:09

draining into the roof out of

1:12:12

the car. And and they come over

1:12:12

and pull me pull me back over

1:12:16

and the hoods all messed up. And

1:12:16

you know, I'm wild eyed because

1:12:21

I you know how it is with ultra

1:12:21

for folks. I mean, we're we're

1:12:25

going this one thing I believe

1:12:25

about ultra for is you never

1:12:28

quit, you keep going. So I'm not

1:12:28

going to quit. So I pull up to

1:12:33

the line and JT is there with a

1:12:33

saws all they had time to get us

1:12:36

off. And he's trying to hack the

1:12:36

hood off and cut it off. And

1:12:40

they're getting ready to throw

1:12:40

the green. And I remember JC is

1:12:44

pulling the last bit of hood off

1:12:44

in the track workers literally

1:12:47

pulling JT off. So bang flag

1:12:47

gets thrown and I actually I had

1:12:52

a fairly good race going, I was

1:12:52

in the upper third of the pack,

1:12:56

and ended up it was like a

1:12:56

couple turns left ran out of

1:13:00

fuel, because the fuel drained

1:13:00

out of the car into the roof.

1:13:04

And that was the end of the

1:13:04

season. And I thought for sure

1:13:07

I'm done. I spent all this money

1:13:07

on this pro line, I'm gonna get

1:13:10

fired and amsoil had the

1:13:14

longer vision I guess. And we

1:13:14

got a deal the next year, which

1:13:19

you know, led into a

1:13:19

relationship with Nissan and,

1:13:23

and some good backing and some

1:13:23

good advice. And we want a

1:13:27

championship that year and it

1:13:27

was hard fought championship, I

1:13:30

mean write down tooth and nail.

1:13:30

And that's definitely one of the

1:13:34

most rewarding championships

1:13:34

have had that pro at one you

1:13:39

garnered, you know, one respect

1:13:39

to you know, just the amount of

1:13:43

knowledge that you gained from

1:13:43

you know, just the little bit of

1:13:45

time you you're there in a in

1:13:45

pro life moving up, but the

1:13:49

relationships like I I know, I

1:13:49

can walk up to Scott Douglas

1:13:53

today. And he's like Mr. amsoil.

1:13:53

And I only know him because of

1:13:57

you. So, and he comes up to King of

1:13:59

the hammers. I don't remember

1:14:02

seeing him this year, but I saw

1:14:02

him last year standing around

1:14:05

kind of by the by the actually

1:14:05

by the mainstage when you guys

1:14:10

won last year. Yeah, yeah. So

1:14:10

it's, you know, so much of

1:14:15

what's been rewarding for me is

1:14:15

you have all these heroes that

1:14:19

that you look up to in

1:14:19

motorsports and getting to meet

1:14:23

them and and then maybe getting

1:14:23

to develop relationships with

1:14:28

them that there's mutual

1:14:28

respect, and that's certainly

1:14:32

been true with with Scott

1:14:32

Douglas. And you know that you

1:14:36

know how it is we're all

1:14:36

fighting but we're fighting

1:14:39

together and Scott for a couple

1:14:39

years. Let us just go work out

1:14:44

of his shop out there in

1:14:44

Wisconsin to avoid the long

1:14:48

drive home. So the boys have

1:14:48

many hours out in the shop there

1:14:52

and we camp out here this this

1:14:52

awesome building that used to

1:14:57

they used to build lock homes

1:14:57

out of so we had a house right

1:14:59

there. We'd camp out and, and had a lot

1:15:00

of good times. So since then

1:15:04

he's been coming out to King of

1:15:04

the hammers with amsoil. And,

1:15:07

and you might have missed him

1:15:07

there. He's probably a little

1:15:10

incognito. But he was out there

1:15:10

running around this year. So

1:15:14

it's great to to not only rub

1:15:14

elbows with with heroes like

1:15:19

that, that I've looked up to,

1:15:19

but just be able to really

1:15:22

consider him a teammate. Yeah,

1:15:22

he's, I mean, there's so many

1:15:26

great individuals like that. I

1:15:26

remember. So JT gets, you know,

1:15:30

I'm always I'm usually down for

1:15:30

stuff except for going to

1:15:32

Mexico. I'm really bad about

1:15:32

that. JT, as we talk about JT

1:15:36

Taylor all the time. He's, you

1:15:36

know, the, he's like my co host

1:15:39

that he's not here right now. He will always be I think he's

1:15:41

almost stopped asking me to get

1:15:44

to Mexico, which is sad. Sorry,

1:15:44

JT. Because I've told him no, so

1:15:47

many times, but he's like, Hey,

1:15:47

what do you got going this

1:15:49

weekend? We're gonna be at XYZ

1:15:49

short course race. You want to

1:15:53

come? Yeah, man. So I remember I

1:15:53

when I came to floresville, with

1:15:57

you, definitely a Dallas race,

1:15:57

maybe a couple of years. But I

1:16:00

remember at one point, we're at

1:16:00

the drivers meeting. I don't

1:16:04

remember why you drunk why you

1:16:04

guys drugged me along by Sit

1:16:06

down. I'm sitting next to Ari

1:16:06

lineback Jr. And he's on my

1:16:10

left. You know, this guy's on

1:16:10

The Bachelor, a year later, or

1:16:13

six months later. And my wife is

1:16:13

like, you know,

1:16:17

thanks. Are you something else?

1:16:17

And are you something else, but

1:16:21

he's sitting next to me. And he

1:16:21

folds, he crosses his legs. And

1:16:26

his and he's wearing his jeans.

1:16:26

His jeans have elastic cuffs on

1:16:30

the bottom. And I'm looking

1:16:30

across the USAC race trailer.

1:16:36

You know, it's in this big 18

1:16:36

Wheeler trailer and the lounge

1:16:39

and I'm looking over you and JT

1:16:39

trying to get your attention

1:16:41

like point and like the little finger.

1:16:47

Like Who is this guy? I don't

1:16:47

know, even if we get out there.

1:16:50

And so he's, you know, that's

1:16:50

our line dikes and our line. I'm

1:16:54

like, Oh, I know who Alright,

1:16:54

like my kids. Wow. I didn't know

1:16:57

those. Those pants were in

1:16:57

style. But hey, you wear goofy

1:17:01

pants. You get called out one

1:17:01

way or another? It doesn't

1:17:04

matter. Right? Yeah, it's you're

1:17:04

gonna get hit.

1:17:07

So definitely good stuff with

1:17:07

you guys in in. I know that that

1:17:11

event itself was I want to say

1:17:11

that was your first event with

1:17:17

your pro two. And at this point,

1:17:17

you had stepped up from pro life

1:17:20

to pro two. So there's three

1:17:20

classes right the pro lights the

1:17:24

little guys that many trucks so

1:17:24

to speak. Still pretty, pretty

1:17:28

bad limited travel. And then you

1:17:28

move up to the pro two which is

1:17:32

basically an unlimited two wheel

1:17:32

drive. And then the next the

1:17:35

unlimited the big boys, the pro

1:17:35

fours which is the unlimited for

1:17:38

all drives. So you went from the

1:17:38

pro lights, you build a pro to

1:17:42

you unveil it. I think that was

1:17:42

a Dallas or Texas or Yeah. And

1:17:46

then you as a way to, you know,

1:17:46

make ends meet. You know, you

1:17:50

already have the race trainer

1:17:50

space and the staff available

1:17:53

and all that you have an

1:17:53

arriving drive of Bobby Ryan Jr.

1:17:57

and he has a prolight that guy's

1:17:57

awesome. I still follow you

1:18:00

know, on LinkedIn, his his

1:18:00

father, Bob Runyan. Got a great

1:18:04

guy Bob. Bob may live in

1:18:04

California. He'll never listen

1:18:07

to the show. I'm sure but But

1:18:07

Bob Runyan. I do. We're

1:18:11

connected on LinkedIn. I you

1:18:11

know, at least once a week he

1:18:15

has one of his posts on LinkedIn

1:18:15

will be something I'm like,

1:18:18

Yeah, yeah, I've been reading

1:18:18

that or That's awesome. I hadn't

1:18:21

caught that. And so I really see

1:18:21

eye to eye with Bobby Runyon

1:18:23

Junior's dad. He's a great guy.

1:18:23

I only know because you

1:18:27

absolutely but he Yeah, he's

1:18:27

he's definitely got his his

1:18:31

views. And and that was an

1:18:31

awesome program and in the

1:18:35

timing worked out, you know, it

1:18:35

takes a ton of money to go

1:18:38

racing and it kind of made sense

1:18:38

that combined forces and boy at

1:18:43

that time, we had had two full

1:18:43

time guys running back and forth

1:18:48

in the toder and then we got a

1:18:48

second trailer and truck and

1:18:52

we're a full blown Carnival out

1:18:52

there on the road you know, we

1:18:55

tow and all kinds of stuff all

1:18:55

over the place. And it was a

1:18:58

good program and he he's an ex

1:18:58

karting champ and did pretty

1:19:04

darn well in pro life and has

1:19:04

since moved on from them. But it

1:19:09

was fun looking back and what is

1:19:09

crazy, because he always wanted

1:19:12

different schemes on his truck,

1:19:12

you know, and it was fun for me

1:19:16

because I like designing the

1:19:16

look of trucks and I but again,

1:19:20

I'm not always gonna just change

1:19:20

the look on my truck. So he was

1:19:23

always wanting wacky stuff. Like

1:19:23

at one point, he wanted a maze

1:19:27

on his truck. Okay, so and I

1:19:27

think, hey, it's gonna be

1:19:31

badass, but it's not. It wasn't

1:19:31

like anything repeatable or

1:19:35

something you could print, it

1:19:35

ended up being like, literally

1:19:38

amaze. So I had to lay it all

1:19:38

out by hand and then bake in

1:19:42

spare parts for it. And we ended

1:19:42

up we're still doing it at the

1:19:45

race. And his mom comes over and

1:19:45

says why you guys spending so

1:19:48

much time on this? Well, it's

1:19:48

you know, it takes time to lay

1:19:51

out. She's like, Bobby, we're

1:19:51

not doing the maze anymore. We

1:19:54

need to be working on making

1:19:54

this trek fast. So that was the

1:19:57

end of that pattern but great

1:19:57

folks.

1:20:00

Yeah, they're they're good,

1:20:00

folks. So you're in pro life,

1:20:03

what made the step like you said

1:20:03

was some like Scott Douglas

1:20:06

moved up to pro four and you

1:20:06

were able to, or what allowed

1:20:09

for their spot to be available?

1:20:09

The you go, Okay, I'm gonna I'm

1:20:13

gonna build this pro to this

1:20:13

seems like a big step, it's a

1:20:16

big step. Why did we do it?

1:20:16

That's a good question. It's

1:20:20

it's wanting to go faster it's

1:20:20

wanting to get that ride it's

1:20:23

wanting to, you know, ultimately

1:20:23

at the time I wanted to trophy

1:20:27

track, you know, push it as far

1:20:27

as we can absolutely push it in

1:20:30

pro two is the next step there.

1:20:30

What it turned out to be, it's

1:20:34

hard. And when you get, you

1:20:34

know, when you're doing spec

1:20:37

racing, it's hard because people

1:20:37

are doing a lot of little things

1:20:40

to get around the spec rules.

1:20:40

And, and that sucks. But when

1:20:44

it's unlimited, it's unlimited.

1:20:44

And for the spec, trophy truck

1:20:48

stuff we're doing now that's a

1:20:48

spec motor. But you know, we're

1:20:51

competing against people with

1:20:51

choppers and people with

1:20:54

multiple trucks and full blown

1:20:54

warehouses, they're prepping

1:20:58

this stuff in. And the same is

1:20:58

kind of true and pro two. So the

1:21:03

thing with pro two, it's all

1:21:03

about the horsepower and putting

1:21:06

it to the ground. So you know, a

1:21:06

lot of teams, you don't like

1:21:10

160 $1,000 engine, you go buy a

1:21:10

$70,000 engine, and then you buy

1:21:14

a backup engine. And it got to

1:21:14

the point that we just couldn't

1:21:20

keep up financially or you start

1:21:20

to have to make sacrifices. And

1:21:25

it was really frustrating going

1:21:25

to the track knowing that maybe

1:21:28

you're already a leg down

1:21:28

because you just can't afford

1:21:31

this stuff. Where you can't

1:21:31

afford the test time is at that

1:21:35

point, which maybe it's just

1:21:35

maturing through a career, but I

1:21:39

kind of decided I don't want a

1:21:39

trophy truck anymore, right? I

1:21:43

don't even want to race engine

1:21:43

anymore. They're miserable

1:21:45

things, they're super high

1:21:45

dollar, and they need a ton of

1:21:49

maintenance to keep running. So

1:21:49

honestly, I think it was kind of

1:21:54

a point in the sport where maybe

1:21:54

that made sense for everybody.

1:21:57

Because there, there wasn't the

1:21:57

money coming in to support these

1:22:02

astronomical engine bills. So

1:22:02

that turned into a spec engine.

1:22:09

And which I'm trying to turn

1:22:09

remember what engine it was is a

1:22:12

427 or something. And by the

1:22:12

time that engine got put in, it

1:22:17

was a little bit detuned

1:22:17

compared to these race engines.

1:22:20

And those trucks were awesome.

1:22:20

It went to a D o t tire. Also,

1:22:24

so so much more balanced. We had

1:22:24

better times and that spec

1:22:28

engine and those do t tires,

1:22:28

then with all this horsepower

1:22:32

and trying to sort it out and

1:22:32

get it tuned right and do race

1:22:37

tires. So at that at that point,

1:22:37

it got really, really fun again,

1:22:41

and we Oh man, we had a great

1:22:41

season going and we had a couple

1:22:48

bad races. We had a water pump

1:22:48

failure, Wyatt, that it was a

1:22:53

new water pump that I put on

1:22:53

because the old one was leaking

1:22:55

and I think hey, we're really in

1:22:55

it for the championship. So I

1:23:00

got a new water pump from

1:23:00

whatever supplier I don't even

1:23:03

remember who and there was a

1:23:03

bolt on the back cover plate

1:23:07

that they hadn't tightened all

1:23:07

the way and it blew out and it

1:23:12

blew the head gaskets in it. So

1:23:12

we DNF around we tore the engine

1:23:17

down and put new head gaskets on

1:23:17

it for the next day. And it blew

1:23:21

the head gasket out again. So we

1:23:21

DNF two rounds and ended up

1:23:26

narrowly losing the Luke Johnson

1:23:26

that year but again those are

1:23:30

hard fought championships man

1:23:30

that that one got away. Oh,

1:23:34

that's rough. Now remember, you

1:23:34

guys had the fort for guys out

1:23:39

at one of the events and they

1:23:39

were you know taking lots and

1:23:42

lots of readings off of off of

1:23:42

that motor the first time the

1:23:46

one thing that I really found

1:23:46

surprising which is once you're

1:23:49

involved in and engrossed in you

1:23:49

know embedded in it, it's not

1:23:52

that surprising but from the

1:23:52