0:00

With the Luckyland Sluts, you can get

0:02

lucky just about anywhere. This

0:05

is your captain speaking. We've got clear runway and

0:07

the weather's fine, but we're just going to circle

0:09

up here a while and get lucky. No,

0:12

no, nothing like that. It's just these cash

0:14

prizes add up quick. So I suggest you

0:16

sit back, keep your tray table upright, and

0:18

start getting lucky. Play

0:20

for free at luckylandsluts.com. Are you

0:22

feeling lucky? No purchase necessary. Void

0:25

where prohibited by law. 18 plus

0:27

terms and conditions apply. See website for

0:29

details. Hello, it is

0:32

Ryan and I was on a flight the other

0:34

day playing one of my favorite social spin slot

0:36

games on Chumba casino.com I looked over the person

0:38

sitting next to me and you know what they

0:40

were doing? They were also playing Chumba Casino. Coincidence?

0:42

I think not. Everybody's loving having fun with it.

0:44

Chumba Casino is home to hundreds of casino style

0:47

games that you can play for free

0:49

anytime, anywhere, even at 30,000 feet. anywhere, even at 30,000 feet. So

0:52

sign up now at chumbacasino.com to claim

0:54

your free welcome bonus. That's chumbacasino.com and

0:56

live the Chumba life. No purchase necessary. VTW.

0:58

Avoid or prohibited by law. See terms and

1:01

conditions. Hey, guys, it's Jack. I just wanted

1:03

to talk to you today about a way

1:05

that you can help support the podcast if

1:07

you're not already. We would really appreciate it

1:10

if you guys went and reviewed us on

1:12

Apple or Spotify. Those reviews really help people

1:14

find the podcast and help it get recognized.

1:18

If you've been enjoying the show, we really appreciate

1:20

your support. Another thing that you can

1:22

do to support the channel

1:24

is to become a Patreon member.

1:27

We have Patreon memberships that start at just $5

1:29

a month. When

1:31

you sign up, you get access to all

1:33

of our episodes ad-free. That's

1:36

the big bonus for that. We also

1:38

do some Patreon bonus episodes for our

1:40

subscribers. This is

1:42

the biggest and best way that you

1:45

can support the Team House channel and

1:47

podcast if you'd like to.

1:49

We really appreciate that. Go

1:51

in and check us out at

1:53

patreon.com/the Team House. Special

1:57

operations. Robert

2:01

Pops, past

2:03

Vietnam, the

2:05

Team House, with

2:07

your host, Jack Murphy

2:11

and David Park. Welcome

2:17

to episode 267 of the Team House. I'm

2:20

Jack Murphy here with Dave Park and

2:22

we're very honored tonight to have

2:25

on our show as a guest

2:27

retired command master chief Herschel Davis

2:29

served in the UDT SEAL teams,

2:31

had a very extensive career and

2:35

then retired and had another second career

2:38

as a security contractor working

2:40

abroad. Herschel, thank you so

2:42

much for joining us on the show. Really

2:44

appreciate you coming on here tonight. My

2:49

pleasure. You're

2:51

lucky. You're the first ones ever

2:53

to do anything like this. Well,

2:57

I appreciate you bearing with us and

2:59

through all the technical issues and our

3:01

viewers can see Herschel's on the phone.

3:03

It's a bit of a jury rig

3:05

situation, but it seems to have worked out. So,

3:13

Herschel, my first question, I just want to

3:15

ask you if you could tell us a

3:17

little bit about how you grew up, what

3:19

your upbringing was like and how that sort

3:21

of propelled you towards military service. Well,

3:26

a lot of military people

3:28

in my background, my mother was the baby of

3:30

12. So everybody

3:33

was old when Herschel came

3:35

along and I went by

3:37

Benny back in those days until I joined the

3:39

Navy and then everybody started calling

3:41

me Herschel except those friends. But

3:47

as I grew up, military

3:49

is all I wanted to do. Of course,

3:52

I started out with slingshots. Then my dad

3:54

got me a single shot little rifle and

3:56

I started shooting things and we ate them.

4:00

That, uh, Matt,

4:02

that of mine was the only man I've ever been

4:04

afraid of. Mine, he was

4:07

scary. He was, he was tough old boy. He

4:09

was a cracker from Georgia, tougher

4:11

than shoe leather, old fighter,

4:13

college educated, and,

4:16

uh, they raised me quite well. I

4:18

thought mom was very loving.

4:20

Dad was scary. And

4:22

usually mom would save me. Marvin.

4:25

That's enough. Can

4:29

you just stay with me? But

4:33

I'd wall in a March air. I'd do any

4:35

damn thing, but you know,

4:38

not necessarily right, but that's the way it was when

4:40

you're a kid, you don't think about shit. You just

4:43

do it. It's

4:45

so, as you came of age, you, uh, you know, 17, 18 years

4:47

old, how does

4:50

the Navy start to enter into the picture? Well,

4:54

I had, uh, I had a cousin was

4:56

a sailor guy, uh, Korea.

4:59

I had several that were back in world war

5:01

two. My dad's brother was

5:04

with the army and, uh, he

5:06

was, he was a tear too. I guess they just

5:09

growing up on that plantation, they just

5:11

became tears. But, uh,

5:14

uncle Wayne, of course he's passed away, but, uh,

5:18

God, he had some down in Papa,

5:20

New Guinea and Philippines.

5:23

He was with MacArthur out of Australia

5:27

and, uh, got his honor and sent. He made

5:29

it up to the rank of captain and retired

5:31

a second class. So

5:34

he was, he was always knocking the shit out

5:36

of somebody. So

5:41

you, uh, you enter into the

5:43

Navy and, uh, looking over your,

5:45

uh, your, your, your CV,

5:48

your resume service record, I saw that

5:50

you actually started out your career. You were, you were

5:53

a sub guy. Yeah,

5:55

I came in as a new guy. I

5:57

had a, I was very, yeah. I

6:00

don't want to brag, but I

6:02

was smart. I had good grades in high

6:05

school and everything, and I had

6:07

a scholarship to college. My

6:09

senator that had me appointed,

6:11

I was first alternate, so

6:13

I probably got in, but

6:15

he died. It just all went down the

6:18

swirly. I

6:21

wanted to be a naval officer, but that

6:24

didn't work out. My

6:26

option was to join the Navy. The

6:28

tests, I aced the tests that

6:31

they gave me, and the chief

6:33

corsetti, I'll never forget him,

6:35

he said, you can do anything in the Navy

6:37

you want to do. What do you want to do? I

6:39

want to be on one of them damn submarines. How

6:42

about the nuclear program? About two and a half years

6:45

of training, and you have to join the Navy for

6:47

six. I said, hell, I'll join the Navy for 20

6:49

if you want me to, but I

6:51

joined the Navy for six,

6:54

and two and a half years

6:56

of school, nuke school, all that stuff, sub school,

6:59

blah, blah, blah, all down the line. That's

7:03

how it worked out. Then I took

7:07

a test somewhere while I

7:09

was on my first submarine, which I was just

7:11

getting qualified. It was a diesel boat,

7:14

and I was in the engine room after

7:16

engine room, boiler. I

7:20

got approached to, if

7:22

you want to be an officer, we

7:24

got this NESEP program, Navy Enlisted Scientific

7:27

Education Program. I

7:29

said, well, I'll give it a try, but

7:31

I wanted to be a Naval Academy officer.

7:35

Don't ask me why. I don't know. It's

7:37

just the way I was. If you're

7:39

going to start, start at the top. I

7:44

got to college, I got it selected, and

7:46

I spent four years at the University of

7:48

Missouri. I spent my last

7:52

semester. I hate to pass the blame.

7:54

It's my fault, but

7:56

I had the sorry ass damn

7:59

professor. ever had while

8:02

I was in school in Mizzou. And,

8:05

uh, I failed advanced

8:09

thermodynamics. I smoked first one, but that second

8:11

one, I need a little help and he

8:13

couldn't help me. Well, read, read

8:15

the damn book. I've read the damn

8:18

book. I have a dozen times I need your help.

8:20

You're the professor and he

8:22

didn't give it to me. And then he didn't like

8:24

me because he knew I didn't like him, but,

8:28

uh, that's the way it worked out. So I

8:30

just went back to submarines and

8:34

all of a sudden I wanted to be a frog man. And,

8:37

uh, I

8:40

secretly took the test because they would not recommend

8:42

me to take it. And

8:45

Dow buyers, a senior chief out of

8:47

team 21 was that minister

8:49

and all the tests. He came to Key West and

8:52

I ran. I

8:54

swam. I did

8:56

the PT and all that stuff, passed it all.

8:59

And I said, I'm not supposed to do this. They would

9:01

not recommend you. If I don't give a shit what they

9:03

do, I can take you. You

9:05

want to come? Yeah. Yeah. So

9:09

orders showed up and

9:11

the XO told me to get off, get

9:14

off the ship. And

9:17

I went to frog man training in Little Creek,

9:19

Virginia, 148 men in my class, 19 of us graduated.

9:24

Wow. And tell us what,

9:26

what year, what year was that Herschel

9:28

and what were the UDTs like at

9:30

that time? They

9:34

were great. They were absolutely

9:36

great. You know, old school shit

9:38

is where I'm at. Everything

9:40

worked just fine. We cruised the world. I

9:43

was on board ship. We went everywhere. And

9:46

then, uh, Vietnam started, you

9:50

know, I was, I was wanting to go.

9:53

New seal team, but I was

9:55

three and a half years there. I was the leading petty

9:57

officer in a platoon and they wouldn't.

10:00

me. No, we need you here. Well,

10:03

it's coming up time for me to get out. So I

10:05

said, fuck it. I'm just going to get, oh, excuse me.

10:07

I'm just going to get out. Don't

10:09

let me go to SEAL team. I'm just going to get out. I've

10:12

done everything I can do here in the UDTs.

10:15

And they came over. My

10:18

buddy was, I went through training with, oh, Roy

10:20

Dean Matthews, come on and said, if you'll ship

10:22

over for SEAL team, you can come come over.

10:24

We need you in the platoon. We're

10:26

getting ready to go to Vietnam. I said, I'm in. So

10:29

I shipped over and went to SEAL team. Went

10:31

to Vietnam, got my ass shot off. And I

10:35

was in Japan, getting

10:38

repaired. And

10:41

once I got functional,

10:46

my doctor, Dr. Budd, I said,

10:48

I'd like to go back to Vietnam opportunity.

10:50

Well, we don't have any way to send

10:52

you back. The land bridge is just the

10:54

United States. They'll send you back if

10:56

they want you. If

10:58

they want to. I said, I don't

11:00

work for me, doc. I'm going back to Vietnam. If

11:03

you won't fly me back, I'm going

11:05

to get back. And

11:08

one of the guys in there, I've tracked him down.

11:10

I tried to track him down for about 10 years.

11:13

But he probably died. He's a Marine. Him and

11:15

I were in the comfort

11:17

room together. You kind of

11:19

been in doc room is where you hang out when you

11:21

first get there. And somebody

11:24

gave me he gave me 20 bucks because I didn't

11:26

have no money. Had no clothes, nothing

11:29

just in a gown with the back end

11:31

out. And two

11:34

Marines, one gave me a pair of pants, one gave

11:36

me a jumper had

11:38

no ID card had a little green ditty

11:41

bag from Red Cross. And

11:43

I had no shoes, couldn't find no boots. So

11:46

I went in those little sponge

11:48

rubber slippers they gave me went

11:51

out to add suey Japan. There's two Marines are

11:53

getting ready to fly somewhere down southern Japan. I

11:55

asked they take me told me who I was

11:57

where I wanted to get. They put

11:59

me on board, flew me down there. I was

12:02

just across the water from Okinawa. Two

12:05

Marines were going

12:08

to their plane as we got out and we were

12:10

going into ops. They said,

12:12

hey, take this swabby and he wants

12:14

to get back to Vietnam. And

12:17

of course, Doc, oh, and I got back. Took me 20

12:20

hours to get home. And I

12:22

promised to Doc I wouldn't go out on any

12:24

ops for 30 days because I was still healing.

12:28

I went out that night with two. We killed 26, captured 13,

12:31

we killed them

12:33

too, but we talked to them first. That's

12:36

just the way it was with us. We

12:39

didn't take prisoners. And

12:41

of course, they wouldn't have taken us either probably

12:43

if they'd have got after us. But that's my

12:45

story and that's how it got going. Herschel,

12:48

could we back up a little bit and

12:51

tell us about landing in Vietnam with the

12:53

SEAL teams and how you got injured? Well,

12:58

being in Vietnam

13:01

was great. It really was. I

13:05

loved it. It was

13:07

scary, but I don't do fear.

13:09

I have concerns. But

13:11

we were out every night. That's

13:13

when we went out. We didn't go out in

13:15

the daytime. Although we did a few times, a

13:17

couple of ops came up, something come

13:20

up and the

13:22

people in Max

13:24

Sog wanted us to go in and take

13:26

care of something. I don't remember now what it was,

13:28

but maybe I get my notes out

13:31

and look at them. But we

13:34

were out every night rooting to the loot and the

13:36

shooting and we worked on hard intel. It was over

13:38

24 hours old. We didn't use it. And

13:42

we turned off a lot of birthdays. This

13:46

was in the Mekong Delta? Yes,

13:48

we worked the Delta. Yeah. Go

13:51

Kong all over the place, right over to the

13:54

Cambodia border. And

13:57

that's the way it was.

14:00

How did the

14:02

Viet Cong thought we were evil

14:05

spirits? You

14:07

know, and I had a fake set of

14:09

teeth, monster teeth, that I put in over.

14:11

A dentist made them for me. I had

14:13

them made them for me before I left.

14:16

And I had an old black wig, a war, and

14:19

I had an old

14:22

West Virginia. Had

14:24

all pulled down, all wet and just, you know,

14:26

just screwed up at it. I'd

14:30

be interrogating these

14:32

guys and my officer in

14:34

charge, Lou Boyk, I've been trying to locate

14:36

him. He retired a captain. He was a

14:38

Commodore when I was about

14:41

30 years in the Navy. And he

14:46

said, Davis, go put your stuff

14:48

on. And we're in the hooch. We

14:51

got this Charlie. And

14:53

he said no by the fire. I

14:57

haven't even thought about this in years. And

15:01

I'd walk in and he wouldn't talk. I'll

15:04

have to admit, they're pretty tough boys. But

15:06

when they discovered we were evil

15:08

spirits, they talked their ass

15:11

off. And I'd

15:13

come in by the door. And

15:15

then he had a little motion to

15:17

make. And then I'd charge at him. He'd look

15:19

and see me. His eyes would be as big

15:21

as his old face. And

15:23

I'd charge at him and two of my platoon

15:26

mates would grab me. It's all a

15:28

core draft. They'd grab and

15:30

hold me and I'd be hissing and snarling

15:32

and carrying on. And

15:37

our interpreter would

15:39

tell him that if

15:42

you don't tell us what we want to know, we're

15:44

going to let the monster eat you. And

15:49

I'm telling you, guy, and about that

15:51

point, I would break loose and get

15:53

ahold of the asshole. And

15:56

I'm telling you, he had started throwing at

15:58

the mouth. His eyes would roll. up in

16:00

the top of his head. You know,

16:02

I mean, I guess some sissies would probably

16:04

think we were terrible people, but we didn't,

16:07

we came home. And you

16:10

know, then they'd make me get out, get

16:13

out, get out. And

16:15

I'd leave and they'd get him calmed down, wipe all

16:17

the spittle and shit off of him. And

16:20

you talking bass. I

16:22

mean, shut up. You're telling us stuff we don't want

16:25

to know. What about this? What about

16:27

that? You know, that's what

16:29

we did. And that's what we did for six

16:31

months. Herschel, tell us about

16:33

the incident where you got injured, though. Well,

16:38

I was, we were on hard

16:40

intel. We were going

16:42

down to Snoopy's Nose, which is on the

16:45

Mekong. And it's just

16:47

an area. And that's what

16:49

I call, that's what we call this, what was, intel,

16:52

that's what it was. And there

16:54

was a sappertime down there shooting

16:56

in the Dong Tam, which

16:59

was an army base, about 10,

17:02

12 kilometers from where we were holed up in

17:04

Meeto. And we

17:08

were taking crews, the provincial reconnaissance

17:10

unit that we worked with. That was

17:12

only nine days in country. And

17:15

this is kind of our first serious good

17:17

op. We were doing some other stuff, just

17:19

going out and wandering around,

17:22

basically. But this was a

17:24

hard op. And they

17:28

said, now, go out. There was a little

17:30

clearing about, we were just a blocking force.

17:33

And the crews, provincial reconnaissance unit, former

17:35

VC that came over to our side.

17:39

And they were, you

17:41

want to talk about a mercenary? Those were mercs.

17:46

And Anhay, the crew chief, and

17:48

his RTO, was

17:52

in this little clearing out

17:54

in front of the platoon, but

17:56

also behind where they were hitting. We were hitting

17:59

a... a Viet Cong hospital,

18:02

turning off the doctor and nurses

18:04

and Viet Cong's birthdays. And

18:06

one of

18:08

them got loose. I heard all the shooting

18:10

in there, yellow tracers going and our red

18:12

going and all that happy horse

18:16

dung and one of them

18:18

got loose. And I would

18:20

just knelt down there with my stoner

18:23

and Anne High was about, oh, probably

18:26

five, five yards

18:28

over to my right and I was

18:30

kind of watching the jungle area which

18:32

was about four yards in

18:34

front of me. And it was a little

18:36

clurry. And

18:39

I heard this Vietnamese, one

18:42

by one, and I'm going,

18:44

oh shit, who the hell is that? And

18:47

I hollered Anne High, Anne High, Anne High and

18:49

I pointed, I said, VC,

18:52

VC, crew, VC, you

18:54

know, what is it? And

18:57

he was too busy on the radio because everybody

18:59

was shooting. And

19:01

the next thing I know, I

19:03

redirected my attention toward

19:06

the jungle

19:09

and Charlie stepped out and lit me

19:11

up. Well, we lit up

19:13

each other because when I saw

19:16

him and he was bringing his gun to bear,

19:18

I fell over backwards with mine and lit

19:22

him up. But he lit

19:24

me up too. So that's how it

19:26

happened. So you took a few

19:28

Kalashnikov rounds? I,

19:32

a lot of them went around me. I went between

19:35

my legs on each side of my head. I

19:37

mean, if that guy would have held that

19:39

damn thing, he'd have killed me. Yeah, yeah.

19:42

But he was sweeping. He was just sweeping.

19:44

I guess he's going to cut the grass

19:46

too. I don't know. But

19:48

it saved my life. It only took a,

19:50

I considered a minor wound, but it got

19:53

me medevaced. And I spent a month

19:55

in the hospital in Yakuksu, Japan. Before

19:58

you were able to make your escape. 27

20:00

days, actually. But

20:04

I he... Oh, please go ahead, Herschel.

20:06

I'm sorry. No, I

20:08

just...you know, I was at Stoner. I

20:10

had three speeds, but it was a very

20:13

temperamental weapon. I kept mine on the

20:15

selector at half speed, about 800 rounds a minute.

20:19

And I gave him as many as that shit

20:21

would throw. Until

20:23

I started sub-shooting and I went...you know, when

20:25

he hit me, I went, oh, God, what

20:28

the hell was that? It was like lightning

20:30

struck me. And

20:32

then... Then

20:35

I figured out I'm in John. And

20:40

that's the name of that tune. I

20:43

know that for a lot of our listeners

20:45

and viewers, probably know a bit about the

20:47

history of the UDTs and the SEALs. But,

20:49

you know, you bring up

20:52

an interesting point that a lot of, like younger

20:54

people might not know about. The UDTs

20:56

and their history and then the SEALs standing up,

20:58

I think, in like 62? And

21:04

then...and then you went in in 67. So you

21:06

had the UDTs, which had... I went

21:08

in in 65. Oh, in 65? Okay.

21:12

Actually, 66. I was there

21:15

at 65, just getting ready,

21:17

but my class didn't start until January 66.

21:20

Okay. So the SEALs were still a relatively new

21:22

thing when you were there, right? Can

21:25

you talk about what the

21:27

UDT was, why the SEALs were stood

21:29

up, and then sort of the operational

21:31

difference between the two when they still

21:33

existed or the UDT was still there?

21:37

The Brogman were the 21-foot

21:40

Fathom curve to

21:42

two miles inland. Okay. That's

21:45

all we controlled. That was our area. We

21:50

did all the hydrographic reconnaissance and welcomed

21:52

the Marines ashore when they were doing

21:54

the landing, because we were the first

21:57

ones in there. That's

22:00

pretty much how you need to win. We were all

22:02

jumpers, you know, and all that

22:04

sort of thing. And becoming

22:07

experts with our weapons and stuff,

22:09

although that took

22:12

some time. I don't think they

22:14

took the shooting as serious as I did. And

22:16

they sent me off to Gunsite Training Center

22:19

and all that stuff. And I really learned

22:21

all the stuff I needed to know from

22:23

Colonel Cooper. And I brought

22:25

it right back. And we did

22:27

two months in the desert every year where we trained

22:30

in Nylund Desert and

22:32

trained everybody the way I was trained.

22:35

And we became the

22:37

best shooting team on the West Coast

22:39

at that time. And

22:41

I shot all the West Coast ammo up

22:43

with my boys. And

22:49

they weren't shooters. We were

22:51

out all the time shooting. Yeah. I

22:53

mean, good God, we're gunslingers for God's sake. So if you're

22:56

not an expert, you're not a team guy as far as

22:58

I was concerned. And all my

23:00

boys bought their own personal weapons, turned them

23:02

into the armory, and

23:05

then they'd check them out when they went. Because

23:07

I'd shoot nine millimeter, I carried a 45. But

23:13

if you can hit them, you don't need 500 rounds

23:15

in your damn gun because, you

23:19

know, most of the

23:21

time shoot will, but anyway, when

23:24

I finish with them, I guess you're pretty damn good.

23:26

Yeah. So, so

23:29

the- Well, go ahead. I know, I

23:31

was just asking you, so the UDTs

23:33

were, like you said, they're there

23:35

to sort of greet them to do the

23:37

beach clearance and- And why were- Our

23:41

primary was to survey the requirements for

23:53

the Marines landing. That's

23:57

the prime directive right there. Anything

23:59

else? we fell into. Well,

24:03

that was it. But

24:06

you came in on the boat, high-speed boat,

24:08

they cast you off. You

24:11

were in a line on the beach, the

24:13

landing beach, you went in and you know

24:15

every five yards and

24:17

took soundings and then you drew

24:19

up a chart. We all knew how to

24:21

do that. Any obstacles, all that

24:23

stuff. And then we might go back and

24:25

we had too many obstacles and stuff that

24:27

would affect the landing craft.

24:30

We had to go back and put them all on them, blow them up.

24:35

Herschel, I'm sorry to interrupt. I got to

24:38

do an ad read real quick and then

24:40

we'll jump back into the interview. Okay.

24:43

I just want to tell our listeners out

24:45

there about Legacy. Legacy provides

24:47

sperm testing and freezing from home, eliminating

24:49

the need for visits to a doctor

24:51

or a traditional fertility clinic. Legacy

24:54

sends you a sample collection kit to your

24:57

home. Men produce a semen

24:59

sample at home and send the kit back

25:01

within 24 hours. The kit contains transport media

25:03

that keeps the sperm sample fresh until it

25:05

arrives at the lab. The

25:07

sample is analyzed and

25:10

then by five industry standard metrics

25:12

of sperm quality, the same provided

25:14

by traditional fertility clinics are securely

25:17

sent to the customer's phone within

25:19

48 hours. And if

25:21

a customer chooses to freeze

25:23

their sperm, the sample will be split and

25:25

securely stored in two locations to protect it

25:28

from natural disasters. And

25:30

Legacy has a relationship with the military.

25:33

Veterans and members of the armed

25:35

forces have twice the risk of

25:37

infertility than the general population. Sperm

25:39

health can affect the, be affected

25:41

by lifestyle, age, injury, environment, including

25:43

exposure to toxic chemicals such

25:45

as burn pits, radiation or pollutants. Hundreds

25:48

of men in high risk occupations like

25:50

police, firefighters and members of the military

25:52

use Legacy to test and freeze their

25:54

sperm. This will allow them to produce

25:56

biological children even if the unthinkable happens.

25:59

The military The agency's health care system offers

26:01

limited options for couples diagnosed with infertility

26:04

and no coverage for proactive fertility

26:06

preservation. Legacy is

26:08

committed to supporting the military veterans

26:11

and their family members. Legacy's special

26:14

relationship with the military includes several

26:16

participants, such as the

26:18

Military Family Building Coalition Naval

26:20

Special Warfare, Operation Baby

26:23

Foundation, Veterans Advantage, and

26:25

the Green Beret Foundation. These

26:28

Board of Advisors include the Honorable Dr.

26:30

David Shulkin, a board-certified internist and widely

26:32

respected health care executive who served as

26:34

the 9th Secretary of the U.S. Department

26:37

of Veterans Affairs. He says,

26:39

quote, For men who have served in

26:41

our recent conflicts approximately 14 percent experience

26:43

in fertility issues, Legacy can

26:46

provide help to those who want to preserve

26:48

their ability to have a family. This is

26:50

one way we can support and honor our

26:52

commitment to those who served, end quote. So

26:55

please go and check them out, folks.

26:57

You can find them at givelegacy.com. It's

27:00

givelegacy.com. Okay,

27:04

Herschel, thank you for standing by.

27:06

Yeah, yeah. So, yeah. I'm

27:08

not going anywhere. So,

27:11

so you talk about like the UDT's

27:13

mission. The SEALs then were

27:16

stood up, like kind of

27:18

as part of or an offshoot of UDT, like

27:21

they used the guys from UDT. Can

27:23

you tell us what the purpose of

27:25

the SEALs was and why it kind of became

27:27

a whole separate unit? Inland

27:31

penetration. Okay. Inland

27:33

penetration. And we were an offensive unit. We

27:36

were not defensive. We

27:39

worked in 14-man platoons. And

27:41

in Vietnam, unless we were on a major op

27:43

where we were hitting a whole bunch of people,

27:46

a squad, seven men, we,

27:50

by description, we would, we

27:53

would engage 50 of the bad

27:55

guys because usually we have

27:57

surprise on our side. Some

28:00

of them would be gone the

28:02

first 10 seconds, for God's

28:04

sakes. But ambushes, stuff like

28:06

that. And we worked right in their backyard.

28:10

So they felt rather secure, I guess.

28:12

I don't know what the hell they felt. They

28:15

felt pretty bad when we got them. But

28:17

other than that, that's

28:19

how it worked. But

28:22

we were the inland boys, and we were very offensive.

28:28

And after you made your escape from

28:30

Japan and rejoined your unit, you said

28:32

you kind of went right back out

28:34

that night with your platoon? I

28:38

sure did. They had, what's

28:41

the word, savaged all my gear. They

28:43

had all my stuff. I

28:46

had to go around and get

28:48

noisy and get my shit back and my

28:50

gun and all my paraphernalia.

28:54

And that only took about an hour. It

28:57

was daytime. They were all right there. So yeah.

29:02

But I made my

29:04

hand was very raw as part of the

29:06

wound. So I

29:08

got one of my other pair of black gloves.

29:10

And I took one black glove, cut the fingers

29:12

off because I lost a couple fingers. And

29:16

I just got that all sewed up and fixed

29:18

up. So that protected that part. So I was

29:20

good to go. What

29:23

was the rest of your tour in Vietnam

29:25

like? Oh,

29:28

you know, liberty,

29:31

going down to the bar

29:33

right on the water. And we

29:36

had different people come

29:39

in, reporters and stuff,

29:41

kind of shake us down for information and

29:43

stuff like that. And

29:45

while we're here, you guys collect ears.

29:49

We don't collect ears. You got out on where the

29:51

hell that shit came from. You got to be a

29:54

little sick. You want to be cutting

29:56

body parts off dead, be it Kong

29:58

and save. them, what the

30:00

hell for? So we had

30:02

one guy, I forgot who he was with,

30:05

but what's that damn

30:07

outfit that news agency at

30:09

Centernational? He was an American,

30:11

but you know, a

30:13

guy up here

30:15

I would imagine looks a lot

30:18

like an apricot. And

30:22

an officer we had, they came and visited us,

30:24

we always tell them about it, the guy

30:26

thinks we want to see our ears. Oh

30:29

man, I got the perfect thing. So we

30:31

had a can of papercots,

30:36

you know, all peeled and everything, you know,

30:38

little round square things. Dried apricots, yeah.

30:41

Yeah, he dried out, yeah, dried out and he made

30:44

a necklace out of one, probably 15, 20 years on

30:46

it and he gave it to

30:49

me. And I went

30:51

down there and I said, okay, okay, okay,

30:55

you want to see it? I'm going to show it to you, don't

30:57

touch it. You got it? Oh

31:00

God, you show me, David, show me. And

31:03

I said, that's what it looks like right there. And I

31:05

held it up, then I jerked one off and ate it.

31:08

I thought he was never going to stop puking. I think

31:10

he pused, he gots up. You know,

31:16

that's the way, that's life in the teams.

31:19

You know, we all harass each other. Yeah,

31:21

everybody's doing funny shit. Yeah, you were in,

31:23

you were in the Rangers, you do the

31:25

same damn thing. Yeah, that's

31:27

how it goes. You know, you speck

31:29

off, speck off. You guys the main force unit,

31:32

we're the little piddly boys. So

31:35

that's, that's the way it works. What

31:38

was your next stop like in

31:40

the Navy after that tour in Vietnam? Well,

31:44

you know, I went back to states

31:46

and then they sent me off to

31:48

Spanish language school because we needed to

31:50

go down to Columbia, South America and

31:53

train the Colombian frogmen to

31:57

be seals. And

31:59

the first group that who went down there got

32:01

a little cocky I guess which narcissism

32:04

is uh is

32:07

uh is very prevalent in

32:09

SEAL teams you know I I had

32:11

a little trouble with that and uh I

32:14

had my ways of taking care of it but you

32:17

know mostly the guy's been nowhere done

32:19

nothing they're awful cocky

32:21

what are you cocky about you haven't

32:23

done damn thing yet slam out in

32:25

the ocean whoo how exciting but

32:27

uh you

32:29

know that's you know where

32:33

was I going with this down uh getting sent

32:35

down to columbia to train their frog frogmen oh

32:37

yeah down in columbia and that was good I

32:39

was I was down there for almost six months

32:41

and uh with a group of guys I was

32:43

the chief then and uh

32:46

had a master chief in charge

32:48

had an officer also but

32:51

he he wasn't like us we're getting

32:53

involved with the guys we're doing

32:55

our thing of course we're training hard but

32:58

uh we were very respectful

33:00

of them and everything and uh we

33:03

did a good job we did a good job

33:05

there's only one or two of them boys left

33:07

unfortunately but we uh we

33:09

went to the park we financed everything we really

33:11

took good care of them and

33:14

uh they didn't have a lot but they they

33:16

had enough and

33:18

uh that was a six-month

33:21

tour you know it's it goes so

33:23

fast when you're having a good time yeah

33:25

yeah it just does my

33:27

life is gone I'm coming

33:30

83 and it's life I woke

33:32

up had breakfast and

33:35

it's time to die I mean

33:37

it just it went by so fast I try

33:39

to recall stuff and I'm going people

33:41

will bring stuff up I'll run in somebody and a lot

33:43

of the old guys like me are gone and

33:46

uh but her so-and-so

33:48

you remember so-and-so well

33:51

spike my memory and you know and they get

33:53

me going one of one of the things that

33:55

I always thought about you whenever we've spoken in

33:57

the past is that you were somebody who Absolutely

34:00

loved being a frog man. Like it was your

34:02

passion. Oh, and I mean you were there for

34:04

30 something years. Obviously you loved it. I Would

34:08

stay I'd still be in the Navy if that

34:10

it kept me I

34:13

had I had one Admiral. I

34:15

gave me my extra four years. He said will

34:17

you go to Panama? And

34:20

during the invasion I will

34:22

go to hell if you'll give me more years I'll

34:25

give you four more years. You go down and take that

34:27

slot. We need you in Panama and

34:30

I said I'm in and Well

34:36

to back up a little bit

34:38

before Panama, um, you yeah,

34:40

yeah by by

34:42

you know 19 what we're

34:44

getting to like the 1970s mid 1970s UDT

34:49

12 and then UDT 11 field team

34:51

5 into the into 1980s. Um, What

34:55

was what was that part of your role? I

34:57

did that two of those are West Coast. I'm

34:59

on the East Coast. I went

35:01

to shield team to Meaning

35:04

disconnected what's that mean? We

35:07

lost your video. We shall have your audio

35:10

that we're back. We're back. Okay. All right.

35:12

Yeah, please. Uh, please please continue Um,

35:14

what was the next part of your career like? Well,

35:18

you know Vietnam then that's when I

35:21

went to Columbia. Mm-hmm Yeah,

35:25

is this working? Yeah. Yeah, we can we can hear you virtual On

35:30

the TV

35:32

now, but the phones better Um,

35:36

can you but Columbia

35:39

was right after it, you

35:42

know, I never got to go

35:44

back cuz the war was over. They sent me to South America and We

35:47

did the Columbia thing and then

35:49

came back and Went off the hail school. Oh god.

35:51

I just saw doing

35:53

stuff all the time Yeah,

36:01

so yeah, they kept you busy. What

36:05

were you doing through the mid-1970s to the mid-1980s? What

36:09

was that part of your career like? Quick.

36:13

I was gone most

36:15

of the time. I did 34 years

36:17

in the Navy. I did 24 years in

36:19

foreign countries, mostly toilets, bad

36:21

places where bad guys are. My

36:27

wife was very loyal. We

36:30

made it 39 years, and then she

36:32

just told me, Herschel, you're

36:35

just an asshole. I said, well, of course

36:37

I am. What's your point? And

36:43

I'm ahead

36:45

with you. So that

36:48

was a bummer. Yeah, I'm sorry. I

36:50

didn't feel real good about it, but that's

36:53

the way life is. But

36:55

we're good buddies now, but she won't

36:57

remarry me. I

37:01

tried. I tried. I

37:03

did, but I take good care of her. She

37:06

remarried some asshole that was

37:08

abusive, and he

37:10

don't know how close he came to getting his birthdays

37:12

turned off. But she's

37:14

a good Catholic girl like I

37:16

am now, I hope. And

37:19

oh, dear God, Herschel, please. I was a divorcee

37:21

now. And

37:23

I'll take care of you. You

37:26

don't have to. Yes, I do. I

37:28

caused this. I'll take care of you. And

37:30

I do. And I have. And

37:35

I got everything set up that when I go,

37:37

and I'll probably go first, quadruple

37:40

bypasses from Agent Orange and all the

37:42

rest of the bullshit that's associated with

37:44

being a military man, but I

37:46

don't let it get me down. I do what I

37:49

can, when I can, where I can. So that's

37:52

good enough for me. I don't have

37:54

no fear of death. How in the

37:56

hell do you do shit like we did if you're

37:58

afraid of dying? Yeah.

38:03

So what – I

38:07

had scaredy cats, you know, and saying, you know,

38:09

this isn't for you. You ought to

38:12

go drive a milk truck or something

38:15

because you're

38:17

too worried about shit you shouldn't be thinking

38:20

about. We're deployed. What

38:24

– do you have any recollections about some

38:26

of those other trips that you made

38:28

after Vietnam, like Columbia, any other places

38:30

that you ended up that the Navy

38:32

sent you? Oh,

38:35

God. Australia. Oh,

38:38

God. I mean, just think. I've been all over the

38:40

world. Australia, France,

38:45

of course, England, with the S.A.S. Oh,

38:51

shit. Let me just – just

38:53

keep asking me questions. That gets me going.

38:56

Yeah. I mean, I'm just looking at the resume they sent

38:58

me. And I mean, maybe it's not right, but it says,

39:01

UDT 12, 1977 and 1981, and then UDT 11, SEAL Team

39:03

5, 1981 and 1987. Right,

39:12

right. And I

39:14

was a Command Master Chief by then. That's when

39:16

I went to the West Coast. Okay. Because

39:19

all the East Coast teams had

39:21

Master Chiefs, old guys. They're

39:24

the old guys that were – I'm the

39:26

new guy. They're the old guys. And

39:29

I made Master Chiefs rather early in my

39:31

Navy career in 15 years. And,

39:35

kid, I didn't know ship from China, but

39:37

I was trying to learn. And

39:39

I just went to the West Coast. I called a

39:42

guy named Al Winters. He was a skipper at Team 12.

39:45

I said, if you'll make me the Command Master

39:47

Chief, I'll come to West Coast. He

39:50

said, you've got the job. He,

39:53

you know, not all men are

39:55

created equal. He had a guy that just spent

39:57

more time in college and other things. I

40:00

wasn't too concerned about getting out and running and

40:02

swimming and doing all the things you need to

40:04

do. So I

40:07

got the job and that was

40:09

good tour duty. And

40:12

then I became command

40:14

mass chief of Naval Special Warfare Group

40:17

1 of

40:21

all the SEAL teams. I

40:23

did that for a couple years and

40:26

went to the PI and Korea

40:29

and Thailand,

40:32

you know, pick one over there.

40:34

I've been to all of them. And

40:36

just doing team stuff and that's,

40:40

you know, what SEALs do just like you

40:43

guys in the Rangers, what Rangers do. All

40:46

training, phone ops, teaching

40:48

people, couldn't

40:51

speak any of the languages though. And

40:55

then you said they sent you down to Panama

40:57

during the invasion? Yeah,

41:00

yeah, I went that way. You know, then

41:02

I went after Naval

41:04

Special Warfare Group, a

41:07

new Commodore came, one I liked. The

41:10

other one sucked me out of the teams.

41:12

I didn't want to be in, yeah, they

41:14

want to leave an operational SEAL team to be a just

41:17

jockey at Naval Special Warfare Group. But

41:21

he let me do a couple things, but not

41:23

near enough. And I

41:25

got my buns out of there because they

41:27

needed a, where the hell did

41:29

I go after that? I went to team 11. Team

41:33

11 was, well,

41:36

it was on its ass. And

41:41

four management and

41:44

retired captain RJ Thomas, he was

41:46

commander then. He was the ops

41:49

boss at Naval Special Warfare Group. And

41:51

the Commodore calls him and he goes, I want you to go to

41:53

team 11. I want you to be the master chief there.

41:55

I want you to go with RJ. That's

41:58

the Commodore. That's not in

42:00

my career plans. And

42:03

then he took the George's name in

42:05

vain. And Davis, I

42:08

said, and I seen I was getting his eye.

42:11

He was getting fired up, but he was noted

42:13

for that. I really liked him. He's

42:16

gone too, but I said, well,

42:18

give me 24 hours to think on it, can you?

42:23

Best amateur I ever had. Oh

42:25

my God, I couldn't do anything wrong. Everything

42:27

was uphill, but that's

42:29

okay. I fired 20 and we put 20 on

42:32

the street and

42:37

we got a team together. And

42:39

then team 11 was re-designated

42:41

SEAL team five and it just got

42:43

even better. And

42:47

after that, it's when I went on to do other

42:49

things and that's when I went to Panama. personal,

42:52

can you talk a little bit about that?

42:54

What happened at SEAL team 11? How

42:58

did it sort of go off the rails?

43:00

And then what

43:02

did you and the new family- I can sum it

43:04

up in just a few words. Lack

43:07

of leadership. I

43:09

had guys, well, of course

43:11

we have a 70% drinking problem in the teams or

43:13

did in those days. There was only 260 of us

43:16

during Vietnam. There's

43:18

over 3000 now. But

43:21

so you probably got a little riffraff in there. We

43:23

had a little riffraff with 260, but they were just

43:27

drugs. Drugs

43:33

were a lot more prevalent on the West Coast

43:36

than they were on the East Coast. I guess

43:38

closer to Mexico, I guess you had a closer

43:41

supply line or something. I don't know, I didn't

43:43

care. But if you did drugs, you

43:45

were done in my world. I'd have shot

43:47

your ass if they'd let me. I have skippers, can

43:49

I? Let me execute two or

43:52

three of these at quarters. How do you stop this problem? Oh

43:55

dear God, Master Chief, are you crazy?

43:57

Well, yeah, why? You gotta be

44:00

crazy. crazy do this shit. But

44:05

I mean, as far as like leadership is, how

44:08

did you come in and like shape up shape things up? I'm

44:13

a gargoyle. That's all. I'm

44:15

not I'm a pussy, but they don't know.

44:19

I'm a great facade. I didn't have to

44:21

beat the shit out anybody. But, you

44:24

know, I was, I was serious.

44:26

I was very serious. And I was

44:28

loud. And they'd come

44:30

in and I want I remember he came in

44:32

and goes, he'd been snorting

44:34

cocaine. We caught him. I

44:37

had we'd have lockdowns. I

44:39

stay the skipper. We need to

44:41

have one right now. Okay,

44:44

Davis, we lock the doors. Nobody leaves.

44:47

Docs come in, everybody p test everything

44:50

they come back positive. And

44:53

I say you're done. Your career is

44:55

over, buddy. You're not a frog man anymore.

44:57

You're nothing. And

44:59

if I could, I'd shoot your ass

45:01

and get out of my fucking office. And

45:03

you start crying. That's my

45:06

wife made me do it. Now I really want

45:08

your ass out of here. Your wife made you

45:10

do it. I'm Yeah,

45:15

come on. You're

45:17

not a seal. You're a fucking pussy. But

45:21

anyway, but I'm, you

45:23

know, that's part of leadership. You

45:25

got to have the gargoyle you got to have

45:27

a good guy, which I was 99%

45:30

of the time. But that

45:32

1% Yeah, you got to be an

45:35

evil son of a bitch. And it don't make

45:37

you feel good. Yeah. You know,

45:39

I mean, it's not something you take a lot

45:41

of pride in. Oh, you know, I threw so

45:43

and so out of the park and maybe you

45:45

know, you know, I'm not like that. Yeah, I'm

45:47

going and I meet these guys now at reunions.

45:51

And they'll come up and I say, Hey, come

45:53

here. How you doing? How's it going?

45:56

Oh, God, it's going great. Master you. God,

45:58

I'm surprised you didn't speak to The. Why?

46:01

One. Or. Just hold

46:03

you accountable for your actions. That's all and

46:05

hopefully it. obviously it took hold of you.

46:07

Didn't write, write, write a book on you

46:09

know you know and I'll on those successful

46:11

on this on that I'm doing. Those are

46:14

married, I got kids. You

46:16

know, got a little on track. actually. I

46:18

helped the guy. He

46:20

brought voters vote on him while I was. At

46:23

home in accountable for his actions, Yeah.

46:26

Yeah, there has to be there, and I'll be

46:28

some sort of standard. And that's leadership. That's

46:30

all leadership stuff. You. Know. What? You

46:32

gotta be the bad guy. You gotta be the good guy. On.

46:37

So. Then you that you get down

46:39

to Panama. And. Do you

46:41

want to talk a little bit about the Bolivia trip

46:43

and how that came about in the nineties. Oh

46:47

just cause the fuck what? Will just

46:49

wanted to hear them all but not

46:51

Bolivia with other escobar thing. Obama.

46:55

Largest Miss. Get that son of a

46:58

bitch. We were coming on. I was.

47:01

I was in. Violation of

47:03

Bossy com todos and the Manchester

47:05

Act. It allows military

47:07

to duty military. I was not allowed to

47:09

go in the field. But. I

47:12

was with some real. Good.

47:14

Dang Big ball Dg A Guys

47:16

Larry Leverage is best way to

47:18

read that again. Answer: He passed

47:20

away in your that. Said

47:23

again. I did. I don't know where he passed away.

47:26

I haven't spoken to him in a few in a

47:28

few years. obviously. Well.

47:30

Law. I had been the

47:32

ability. I mean I. I keep. I

47:35

keep track of my bird sowell arise

47:37

Friday or that gets good time together

47:39

as he was in Florida in one

47:41

is nice place to go and I

47:44

was just does this and somebody. A

47:47

true by added that got all the navy

47:49

or. Sellers he got

47:51

married is why didn't want the abroad memory

47:53

join the army and I just one is

47:55

a lot of stories and he was just.

47:58

He. Would still be alive today of. stayed

48:00

in the teams. He really was. He just passed away.

48:02

But you know, and I was close, so I just

48:04

drove down to Florida and hung out with Larry a

48:06

little bit. That's,

48:09

uh, but he

48:11

asked me one time, well, I was training the

48:14

Hoomah PowerPoint, the Colombian

48:17

police, the, uh,

48:19

the, uh, the Coyas and the Combus.

48:22

The Combus were the Alticlanos,

48:24

or one of the other, I can't

48:26

remember for sure. And the Coyas

48:28

were in the jungle and

48:31

there, there, the two should meet. So

48:33

what the DA did is swap them

48:36

out because South America is so corrupt.

48:38

Anyway, good God, it was, and

48:41

I, and I had, I

48:44

had two combos. I

48:47

had two combos that

48:49

were just outstanding. I mean, they

48:51

were, they had a quality of

48:53

leadership and, uh, the damn,

48:57

uh, officer, you

49:02

know, he'd been one that got Che Guevara

49:05

and he got dang phone. Get up.

49:08

Everybody calls when you're on the phone, but,

49:11

uh, you

49:13

know, and he was a piece of shit and he was

49:16

stealing everything. And we'd go in, we'd hit

49:18

a hooch looking for druggies and,

49:21

uh, he'd be taking their chickens

49:23

and their meat and all kinds of stuff. You

49:25

know, he's stealing from them. Try

49:27

to take him aside because

49:29

the cobbles were afraid to say anything to him.

49:31

You know, you know,

49:34

the South America is the porn destitute

49:36

and the ones that got

49:38

money and stuff. There's no middle-class or the least

49:40

of one there when I was there, but

49:43

I really, I took care of my boys.

49:45

God dang, they had big balls. And,

49:48

uh, I

49:51

just took him aside and I just told him, I

49:54

said, if you want something, you buy

49:56

it. You understand

49:59

me? I

50:01

will turn your damn birthday off buddy and I'll leave

50:03

you in the jungle. Oh he hated me. I didn't

50:05

give a shit. I've

50:07

been hated before and there's probably a lot of people still hate

50:09

me. But they

50:12

shouldn't. I just held them accountable. And

50:15

the Cabos, man they became

50:17

really close to me then. You,

50:20

you, you, did you, you did that? Of

50:22

course I did it. I'm in

50:24

charge. He's not. And

50:28

they did some outstanding stuff and

50:30

now there were bonuses that were

50:32

available. And

50:34

I went to Larry who was the head of the

50:36

DEA team and I said I want to give bonuses

50:38

to my two Cabos. Okay

50:43

I'll sit, I'll get that set up. And

50:45

I said we're going to do it a little different. We

50:47

do not give the money to the

50:50

officers to give to the men. Right.

50:52

They never get it. Really?

50:56

No they don't get it. So we

50:58

will present the money to them up

51:00

here with no officers

51:02

around. All right Master

51:04

Chief that's why you want to do it. So

51:08

and then he comes Larry comes

51:10

to me and he goes will you go on the

51:12

opposite side? Will I go on

51:15

opposite with you? Because how do you do it? Do

51:17

you have a wooden dick? Hell yeah I'll go on

51:19

opposite. And

51:23

so I started going on opposite.

51:26

I stole my gear and the helos.

51:29

All my operational battle rattle

51:32

and away we went. And I was

51:34

on opposite with them all the time. It

51:37

was great. I mean good god. I

51:40

trained the boys too but when we had

51:42

ops I got on them. And

51:44

we had a detachment. We had a

51:46

detachment of small platoon of

51:49

SF boys there. All

51:52

the Chief well I'd say

51:54

the Chief the E7 and the other

51:56

ranks. Cool dudes.

51:58

God my flavor. But

52:00

the guy in charge was a

52:03

fucking dickhead. And,

52:05

uh, Davis, you

52:08

know, they couldn't go on ops, right? And they didn't.

52:12

And Davis, where were you, your city? Oh,

52:14

I just out flew around. You

52:17

going on ops, aren't you? What

52:20

are you talking about? I can't do that. So

52:24

he reported me to La Paz,

52:27

the headquarters, the mill group. And

52:29

I get a call. Colonel, uh,

52:31

what the hell was his name? Colonel,

52:35

um, they squats once, uh, see you, Davis. We're

52:38

sending a helo for you. Well,

52:41

it wasn't a helo. It was fixed when you're cost of 212. So

52:44

I flew in. I

52:47

went up, locked my heels in

52:49

front of these desks. Master

52:53

Chief, are

52:55

you going on ops in violation of

52:57

Posse Comet, the office in Manchester? Colonel,

53:01

do you think I would do that? Hell

53:04

no. I wouldn't think that. Yeah. Hell no.

53:06

You take three days, have a good time.

53:08

Shit, he answered his own question. So

53:14

I hung out for about three days and, you

53:17

know, done some Kumbia, went to

53:19

the dance halls and stuff, and got my

53:21

hands like on airplane, got back down with

53:23

the boys. And I

53:25

had a- And you want to tell the

53:27

story about how you and Larry almost, uh,

53:29

you know, crossed paths with Pablo Escobar? Well,

53:33

we were coming in. We heard about he was in

53:36

country, because that's where he got a lot of

53:38

his, uh, his powder. And

53:40

usually we'd burn up the- you know, that's all

53:42

we did was hit, uh-

53:45

The drug labs. Sights, where they cook- where

53:47

they were cooking, making the shit up and

53:49

drying it out. And then that's where a

53:51

lot of that came out of that way,

53:54

when they went into Columbia and they went

53:56

on up to America. That's where most of

53:58

it went. And we were- we blow the ops up. And

54:00

of course the uh the

54:02

Uma par, I'd

54:06

say okay now guys here's how it works. There's

54:10

a lot of shift there that you can

54:12

turn in the money or you can keep it. So

54:15

their personal gear and stuff that's

54:17

yours. You get

54:19

a piece, you get a piece, you all

54:22

can't take everything to one guy.

54:25

And I worked it out to where they all got

54:27

compensated that way and all that stuff.

54:30

And only one time

54:32

the the druggies were usually about that

54:34

whole ass into the jungle. But

54:36

one of them was one of the

54:38

honcho's sons and he popped out

54:40

the jungle with a AR

54:43

I guess it was and he started popping at us. And

54:46

my two cabos buddy they could shoot. They

54:49

blew that boy into eternity. Bang

54:52

bang bang took a quarter size

54:54

half dollar size through his chest

54:57

out his spine. That was cool as

54:59

hell. I just really I felt

55:01

very comfortable out in the bush with those guys.

55:04

And we didn't look on a whole button.

55:06

And then the the one where you guys

55:08

did the helicopter assault on Pablo's finca. Say

55:13

again. When you guys did

55:16

the helicopter assault force mission on

55:18

Pablo's finca. Yeah

55:21

well you know the the

55:23

way we would hit fincas we hit a

55:25

lot of fincas because we knew this bad

55:27

this group was bad this group was bad.

55:29

But you know they'd hear the helos coming

55:33

and then they'd haul ass. So

55:36

we started doing stuff to where

55:38

we would go 180 out from there.

55:41

Set them down and then we patrol in and

55:44

then we catch them flat footed. And

55:49

Pablo's place was down by way

55:52

down off one of the canals. And

55:54

when we went in it was

55:56

a hot area. They they popped

55:58

at us but we lit them up. But

56:00

he had, when we were coming in, there

56:03

was a twin-engine airplane, took off a dirt

56:05

strip. They were

56:07

climbing out as we were coming in, and

56:10

Pablo was in that vehicle. But

56:12

I saw Pablo dead on the

56:14

ground where he was

56:17

in a house down in— —Boketa?

56:20

—Oh, one of the, one

56:23

of the damn, I can't remember the

56:25

name of the town he hung out

56:27

in, where his wife was, but we

56:30

hit that place. We blew

56:32

his guard away, bodyguard, and then

56:34

he thought

56:37

he could get away, and we got him up

56:40

on the roof, and he fell off, and he

56:43

was dead. And his wife was pretty crazy.

56:46

You were there in Columbia when that happened? I

56:50

was right there. I looked at him. Holy shit,

56:52

I didn't know that Herschel. Well,

56:54

it's no big deal. I mean, he's a dead man, and I've

56:56

seen a lot of them. So,

57:06

wait, walk me through this a little bit.

57:08

Like, were you there with the—what was it,

57:10

search block, the Columbian unit that found him?

57:13

Yeah, the room part, the

57:15

Columbian police. Yeah. Yeah.

57:20

And the Croyus, no, the Combus, where we had

57:22

the Combus down in the jungle

57:24

area and stuff down south. But on

57:26

the, you know, the Altiplano, on

57:28

the other side is where all the property was, and

57:31

it was all, you know,

57:33

pinkers and stuff and crops

57:37

and cattle and all that stuff on

57:41

the eastern side of the Altiplano.

57:47

So, that's how it worked. So

57:50

that was the— He was moving all the time, moving

57:52

all the time, and had one other

57:54

young seal with me, good guy. Can't remember

57:56

his name, he was an Italian name. all

58:00

became an officer. He was a good guy. He

58:02

was at Pytheal when a bunch

58:04

of seals got blown away. I was

58:06

at the funeral for those boys. They

58:11

had a group of seals trained

58:13

for two months for that op.

58:16

This turd polisher

58:19

changed everything and put a bunch

58:21

of green guys in there. They

58:23

patrolled in wrong. They did

58:25

it all wrong and got themselves killed. What

58:28

mission was that again? I got shot up, got

58:30

shot up, killed the chief. It's bad. Bad dude.

58:36

What mission was that? That went bad? Not

58:41

so much coordination. It's just their

58:43

damn movement. Walking up the runway.

58:45

Oh yeah. Oh, the invasion. Yeah.

58:48

You know you had houses and all kind of

58:50

stuff. You stalk, you move around, come

58:53

in at night, be ready to go in

58:55

the morning. I mean, come on. Yeah. Do

58:59

you know why they took out the guys who

59:01

had been rehearsing for that and put in a

59:04

greener, a newer team

59:07

that wasn't ready? I'm

59:10

sorry. I didn't follow that. Do

59:15

you know why they took out the

59:17

team that had been training for that and then,

59:20

like you said, put in a green team. Oh,

59:22

I have no idea. I have no idea. I'm

59:24

in the jungle. I have no idea what's going

59:26

on back in Little Creek. Yeah. You

59:29

know? Yeah. You know,

59:31

it's all officer stuff. Sometimes

59:34

I wonder how they think. Officers

59:37

in the SEAL teams get a couple of

59:39

operational tours. Then there are

59:41

desk jockeys and joint

59:44

staffs, all that stuff, make and

59:46

rank. Yeah. And

59:50

I never wanted to be one. After

59:52

that, it's the best thing that ever happened to

59:55

me. Flunking advanced thermal. God

59:57

must have known. I

1:00:00

screwed my brain up and I couldn't figure that

1:00:02

shit out. Yeah, I mean if you woke up

1:00:04

command master chief in the dictionary, I'm pretty sure

1:00:06

there's a picture of your face there that accompanies

1:00:08

the definition. Partner,

1:00:11

I draw more water than

1:00:13

anybody but the captain. And

1:00:16

I'm the captain's right hand man. His

1:00:18

office and my office were connected by a

1:00:20

doorway. And you

1:00:23

know, I'm not trying to brag, but

1:00:25

I mean if you want to be

1:00:28

a command master chief, then you

1:00:30

take a handle on things. You know,

1:00:32

on my skipper he gets a little pissed at me and

1:00:34

goes, good God, Herschel, can't

1:00:37

you calm down? Sir

1:00:39

I never learned how to polish a turd. Davis,

1:00:43

go back to your office. I don't

1:00:45

want to talk to you no more.

1:00:48

And you know, I come back and say, you're still mad

1:00:50

at me? Oh, I'm not mad at you. Where

1:00:53

in the hell did you come up with that? Well, you

1:00:55

know me, I got all kinds of little sayings.

1:00:58

So if you want to learn some, I can teach you.

1:01:01

No, no, no, no,

1:01:03

I don't want to learn any. I'm fine.

1:01:05

That is a good skipper. We're

1:01:08

still good buddies. We're still good buddies. Did

1:01:11

30 some odd years in the Navy, you

1:01:14

know, by the early to mid 1990s, you're getting

1:01:18

towards the end of your career and

1:01:20

hitting quote unquote retirement, which you explained

1:01:23

to me. 93

1:01:25

and they told me away. And

1:01:27

you felt that retirement was basically a bunch of

1:01:29

bullshit and didn't like it so much. So

1:01:31

you went and found other things to do. Can you

1:01:34

tell us a little bit about your post Navy career?

1:01:37

Well, you know, I really like

1:01:40

guns. So I

1:01:43

had retirement and I

1:01:45

worked at gun sight for about

1:01:47

seven years. Not a lot. I

1:01:49

mean, you had a couple of tours, a

1:01:51

couple of classes a year and stuff. And

1:01:54

then I built a bed and breakfast up

1:01:56

there and provided

1:01:58

housing for clients. And

1:02:01

that's why I lived up there and

1:02:03

then the kids and mom would come

1:02:05

up and visit her. I'd go down there and visit

1:02:07

with them when I had some free time. But

1:02:10

that gave me something to do

1:02:12

24-7, maintaining the lodge and training

1:02:15

when they had a class for me and all

1:02:18

that sort of thing. That's

1:02:21

how it worked. I kept

1:02:23

my skills up and I did that

1:02:25

for a while and then

1:02:32

I got a call one day from a petty

1:02:35

officer that was in

1:02:38

team five with me. And

1:02:41

he had done very well and he was

1:02:44

the president of Blackwater working for Eric Prince.

1:02:48

And we talked, he was good Frank, God I

1:02:50

like that guy, he was squared away. He

1:02:53

wasn't one of the narcissist boys. And

1:02:55

we were talking on

1:02:58

the phone, I said what the hell are

1:03:00

you guys doing? I understand you're over in

1:03:02

Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, all them kidholes,

1:03:04

what's going on? Well

1:03:07

we're doing blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

1:03:10

and I went, God I'd love to do that

1:03:12

son of a bitch. Massif are

1:03:14

you serious? Are

1:03:16

you serious? As a heart attack? That's

1:03:19

how serious I am. If I could go and do

1:03:21

that I'd do it in a heartbeat. All

1:03:24

right, can

1:03:26

you come down here and run a

1:03:28

class for us in

1:03:31

Currituck? Well, I'm more Yacht, North

1:03:34

Carolina, I live in Currituck. And

1:03:37

I said, hell yeah I can. And

1:03:39

he said, here's what I want you to do. I want you

1:03:42

to go over and work

1:03:45

in Pakistan. I just wanted the boys. I

1:03:47

wasn't going to see one, I was just one of the boys.

1:03:51

And then he called me while I was over there

1:03:53

and he goes, we're opening

1:03:55

up a place in Pakistan.

1:04:00

Where we have predators and stuff. I'm probably talking

1:04:02

about shit ought to keep them out. Well, we're

1:04:04

not doing it anymore. So Would

1:04:08

you could you go there and take that over How

1:04:12

do you know I've done

1:04:14

the howdy-duty thing so I find something else

1:04:16

anyway, I Said

1:04:18

hell. Yeah, so I stayed there. I didn't come

1:04:20

home most people were coming out for 60 days

1:04:23

then they go home and it's about all they could take cuz

1:04:27

139 degrees in the desert southern

1:04:29

part of Pakistan out earned a

1:04:31

fresh truck force in a forest fire but

1:04:34

you know, it's You

1:04:36

get used to it. You get used to it is

1:04:38

dry heat What

1:04:44

do they have you doing all like mobile

1:04:46

protection details or something Well,

1:04:49

no, we weren't protecting we were we were

1:04:52

Guarding the base gotcha. We covered

1:04:54

the business we had outposts and

1:04:56

then we would make sorties and

1:04:58

that's where Alex not

1:05:00

Alexander the great. Yeah, Ali

1:05:02

Alex the the

1:05:05

Greek, right? Yeah, yeah He

1:05:07

came through and he that's where he stopped

1:05:09

right there in Pakistan Right there

1:05:11

in the Shamsay Valley and an old fort

1:05:14

was just 10 clicks up the road,

1:05:16

you know And when I found that out,

1:05:18

I just took one of the trucks I

1:05:20

went up there and checked it out and That's

1:05:22

cool. It's all run down and everything

1:05:25

but just to be there on that

1:05:27

thing. Yeah, old. Are you

1:05:29

kidding me? Yeah You

1:05:32

know, but I took the guys obviously

1:05:35

messy can we go hell yeah, you can go

1:05:37

get in truck Into

1:05:39

the watch, you know, they

1:05:41

all I got them set up to where they

1:05:43

did eight-hour watches. So it was It

1:05:46

was good initially when I got there's only 11 of

1:05:49

us and I was on the watch bill I wasn't

1:05:51

going to be see one and not be on the

1:05:53

watch bill when we don't have anybody much and We

1:05:57

worked our ass off 12-hour shifts and

1:06:00

Got paid a lot too though. That's the

1:06:02

first time in my life. I made any money.

1:06:04

Yeah And

1:06:07

what came after after the Pakistan job, what

1:06:09

was the next one for you Oh Pakistan

1:06:13

let me think let me think We're

1:06:17

wrapped in those you oh I

1:06:20

saw we're gonna police Academy up in The

1:06:23

DuPage, Illinois still do

1:06:26

I teach again in November or

1:06:28

January June June awesome,

1:06:31

and so

1:06:33

you know out on the range and then

1:06:35

I had a class

1:06:37

classroom or I My

1:06:42

my boss Messy can

1:06:44

you change your language a little

1:06:46

bit? You know you're

1:06:48

in civilian sector And you

1:06:51

know some of the things you say are pretty

1:06:54

shocking No shit

1:07:04

But it's true though because as police

1:07:06

officers They're gonna speak supposed to way

1:07:08

harsher language when they're actually out on

1:07:11

the job Well,

1:07:13

you know there is nowadays or not.

1:07:15

Yeah, I'll tell you right now. Yeah,

1:07:17

well, I appreciate the thing famous

1:07:22

phrase that they used and

1:07:24

when somebody's custom calling

1:07:27

them 10 motherfuckers a second Well,

1:07:30

I appreciate what you're saying sir, but couldn't I just

1:07:32

get a little cooperation? But

1:07:40

You can't do that. That's against the law and I'd

1:07:44

be shooting people every day until they got

1:07:46

me if I wasn't

1:07:48

concerned about my mortal soul We

1:07:52

should mention that you're a reformed man now

1:07:54

Herschel and that you follow the teachings of

1:07:56

Christ I Do

1:07:58

I do and I'm following good

1:08:00

buddy. I want it. I

1:08:02

miss church but once in six

1:08:04

years and I tithe

1:08:07

and I do my thing.

1:08:09

I say my prayers. I'm a

1:08:11

good Catholic boy. Finally, I started out a

1:08:14

good Catholic boy and then the military. And

1:08:18

you don't un-birthday people even

1:08:20

when they deserve it. No,

1:08:25

I could but unfortunately that's murder and

1:08:28

that's a mortal sin. I try not

1:08:30

to commit those anymore. I've done enough.

1:08:34

They say the boss is very forgiving but

1:08:37

he's got a lot

1:08:39

of forgiving to do

1:08:42

for this one.

1:08:44

I apologize every day. The

1:08:48

devil made me do that. Oh God, keep

1:08:50

that summage away from me. But

1:08:54

that's the way I talk to

1:08:57

him. I talk to him just like I talk to you.

1:08:59

I do. You

1:09:01

know, I'm not embarrassed to say that at all. I

1:09:05

talk to him just like I talk

1:09:07

to you. Only I use very nice

1:09:09

language. I don't use the

1:09:11

F word but my priest told me, he said,

1:09:13

you know, dirty words are not a sin. I

1:09:16

said, really? Yeah, you got

1:09:18

to quit coming to confession with just using impure

1:09:21

language. The only

1:09:23

reason it becomes a sin is when you call

1:09:26

somebody things like that. Well, I don't do

1:09:28

that. Well, you're not sinning. They're

1:09:30

just English words. You shouldn't use

1:09:32

them. Now, don't get me

1:09:34

wrong. You shouldn't use them if you don't have to.

1:09:36

I can't imagine why you need to but

1:09:38

it's okay. Well, fuck it

1:09:40

then, father. I'm going to do it. He

1:09:44

goes, dear God, and if heaven has got work

1:09:46

to do with you, I said, that's your job.

1:09:49

That's your job. You've

1:09:51

been squared away. But, you

1:09:54

know, what am I going

1:09:57

to do with you, Missy? Just take

1:09:59

the money and help them pour. I'm

1:10:03

really curious in terms

1:10:05

of, you know,

1:10:07

you were there when the SEAL teams

1:10:09

were relatively new. You were

1:10:11

there when the UDT teams went away.

1:10:15

You, so you've seen the culture change,

1:10:17

if it was a culture change, but

1:10:19

you've seen the changes from,

1:10:22

you know, underwater demolitions through the SEAL

1:10:24

teams and all that. How

1:10:26

did you, like when the

1:10:29

UDTs went away, did you think that's fine because

1:10:31

like the SEALs are doing that job? No,

1:10:33

no, no. I liked being a frog man. I

1:10:36

liked being a frog man. I did

1:10:38

the SEAL thing, but we took over

1:10:40

all the requirements of being UDT in

1:10:42

the SEAL team. So we added that

1:10:44

to, so now we're from 21

1:10:47

Fathom Curve all the way into the

1:10:49

capital. So, you know, it's whatever.

1:10:52

So we just took that job

1:10:54

and they call us SEALs now

1:10:56

because that acronym, I guess, is

1:10:59

much more important than UDT. And by

1:11:01

God, you say SEAL

1:11:03

to some people, by God, they drop down on

1:11:05

their knees and start praying. I'm going, what the

1:11:08

Sam hell? And everybody knows

1:11:10

about us now. Back when I was

1:11:12

there, most, even the Navy guys didn't

1:11:14

know. They saw my insignia, looks like

1:11:16

a big Budweiser label. And,

1:11:19

uh, what is

1:11:21

that? No, it's SEAL insignia.

1:11:23

What the hell is SEAL? Frog

1:11:26

man. Really? Really?

1:11:30

That's the biggest damn insignia I've ever seen. Yeah. Well, yeah,

1:11:32

I have to agree with you

1:11:34

there. Whoever designed it was, had an ego big one. But,

1:11:39

um, you know,

1:11:41

it's, uh, did you, did you,

1:11:43

the way it was. I was very lucky. I've been

1:11:45

blessed. I have been blessed. And

1:11:47

I thank the boss quite often

1:11:50

for looking after me because I have suffered

1:11:53

gunshot wounds, brokenness.

1:12:00

You know, what the hell? The

1:12:04

chest thing, open my chest up, I'm running

1:12:06

on. I used to have fire hoses for

1:12:08

blood veins to my heart. Now I got

1:12:11

garden hoses. So

1:12:14

I've had to blow down a little bit.

1:12:16

This stroke got me slowed down. I had a stroke

1:12:18

in September. I'm sorry. And

1:12:21

my doctor goes, well,

1:12:23

you can't run around like a wild man.

1:12:26

Master Chief, you're 82 years old. So

1:12:31

what am I supposed to stop? You

1:12:34

know, it's attitude. I got a good one. Well,

1:12:37

slow down or you're going to die. I'm

1:12:40

not afraid to die. Boss wants

1:12:42

me, I'm out of here. What

1:12:45

am I going to do with you? Well,

1:12:47

is there a pill I can take? And

1:12:51

you, yeah, there is a lot of my days.

1:12:53

So I take them. I

1:12:57

take them. When

1:13:00

I got them all divvied up, I do

1:13:02

about three times a day. I take some, there's

1:13:04

a damn many. Plus I take my supplements too.

1:13:07

Yeah. Everybody thinks I'm about 65 years

1:13:09

old. I said, well, I look 65. I

1:13:12

think I don't think so. I think I

1:13:14

look 200 personally, but everybody goes, how old

1:13:16

were you master chief? About 65, 66, 82. Oh,

1:13:21

bullshit. I said, well, that's what

1:13:23

my credit card says. Anyway,

1:13:28

that's the way it works.

1:13:30

I hope I've made sense. Yeah. Yeah.

1:13:34

I'm curious when the UDTs went away and

1:13:36

the SEALs took over that mission, you said

1:13:38

that they had everything from, was

1:13:40

it a two fathoms or five fathoms? Do

1:13:43

you feel that 21 fathoms

1:13:45

curve, 21 fathoms curve for

1:13:47

the, look, there's

1:13:50

no limit. Yeah. We

1:13:52

used to be in UDT limited two miles. Oh,

1:13:55

every now and then you wind up farther in

1:13:57

than two miles, but you know,

1:13:59

you're looking around, so what are we supposed to

1:14:01

do now? Let's steal something. Do

1:14:05

you do you feel

1:14:07

because it seems like it seals

1:14:09

because of their mission set, have

1:14:12

to maintain a lot

1:14:14

of different requirements, right? They have the

1:14:17

land warfare, they have the the

1:14:19

underway stuff, you know, the the

1:14:23

ship interdiction, things like that. Do you

1:14:25

feel like it's too large of a

1:14:27

mission set to ask?

1:14:30

No, no, no, here's how it works.

1:14:32

Okay, we used to have two SEAL

1:14:34

teams. But when

1:14:36

they became UDT became seals, we

1:14:38

have on the West Coast, we

1:14:40

have team three,

1:14:42

team five, team seven, team,

1:14:46

well, team 10, that's a dev group.

1:14:49

And then on the East Coast,

1:14:51

we've got, oh,

1:14:53

God, we've got SEAL

1:14:57

team two, all equal number

1:14:59

SEAL team four, SEAL team eight.

1:15:02

And there's no one SEAL team 10. That's where

1:15:04

that's at. And then out on the

1:15:07

West Coast, we got SDV team one,

1:15:09

SDV team two over here, and I think

1:15:11

they've moved all them to Hawaii. So,

1:15:14

you know, we have a lot

1:15:16

of teams now and each team

1:15:18

has certain areas that they're responsible

1:15:20

for. Okay, like my team

1:15:23

team five, we were the Alaska boys, we

1:15:25

had all the all

1:15:27

the cold weather stuff, Canada

1:15:30

and a few Greenland and

1:15:32

blah, blah, blah, and

1:15:34

South America. Yeah,

1:15:37

South America. And then, you

1:15:39

know, another team's

1:15:41

got the Asia area. Now

1:15:43

that the world is

1:15:45

broken up into different areas, you

1:15:47

know, the, there's a

1:15:50

team designator, I think it's team three for

1:15:52

the Middle East. But

1:15:54

when there's combat going on, when

1:15:56

we're at war in that area,

1:15:59

all the team. Like or yeah,

1:16:01

that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah.

1:16:04

A does so so they're of the

1:16:06

lives around the Vietnam was real didn't

1:16:08

choose but she'll be three was they

1:16:11

can observe do we We would relieve

1:16:13

them they would leave us. We're gonna

1:16:15

say that they to get the do

1:16:17

it all than a good got there

1:16:19

were none of us. Yeah.

1:16:23

I mean it's a credible when you say there's

1:16:25

only like two hundred and sixty seals during the

1:16:27

Vietnam war. Yes, is a really damaged as a

1:16:29

really tight knit crew right there? We.

1:16:32

Were busy? Yeah an area like

1:16:34

if you wanna be. Your

1:16:36

time to think. Our

1:16:39

How You Feel Mercy Both I am.

1:16:42

I. Haven't actually got. I.

1:16:45

Any other stories from you're contracting years during

1:16:48

the war on terror years that that come

1:16:50

to mind that you'd like to tell? Well.

1:16:54

You know that? Memories com

1:16:56

and go. You

1:16:59

know our get to talk to someone. I

1:17:01

went holy yet neither new say about this.

1:17:04

So. Yeah, no yeah, he just

1:17:06

got a proud me with the question you

1:17:08

know, or at any time in Iraq or

1:17:10

Afghanistan for instance. All

1:17:13

Afghanistan while we were down in the desert.

1:17:16

Every. Now and we get up there

1:17:18

slam abad you get checked our the

1:17:20

doctor something or check in with somebody.

1:17:23

You're. All those kind of a pleasure to have

1:17:25

an outlet. many boys go as wanted to get

1:17:27

all has your don't you want to get up

1:17:30

the slammer bugs or what what they're doing a

1:17:32

birds who gave up a now you're not like

1:17:34

if we have. An older know.

1:17:37

The year ahead guy? come down it.

1:17:40

You know were Huge Huge Huge Me die. We

1:17:42

do what we need to do to get it

1:17:44

does. Why are you flying a Jolly Roger? What?

1:17:49

The hell does a flag matter? The.

1:17:52

Men like it. I. Like Amanda?

1:17:54

like thanks, Yeah. You.

1:17:57

Get that flag out. In.

1:17:59

army Where in the hell did you

1:18:01

come from? Well, I was in a Marine Corps. I

1:18:03

was in a private. Yeah,

1:18:06

I can imagine. I like Marines, but I don't

1:18:08

like you. But

1:18:13

he was a pain in the ass. And

1:18:17

my boss there at

1:18:19

the compound where he ran, he goes, man, see if

1:18:21

you shouldn't talk. That's the boss, man. You shouldn't talk

1:18:23

to him that way. He'll fire you. Fuck him. I

1:18:27

don't care if he fires me. Tell

1:18:30

us, come on down and follow my footprints.

1:18:34

Do we have a question? It's controversial. He wouldn't

1:18:36

get off the property. He'd be panting

1:18:38

in 138 degrees, 139 degrees. All

1:18:42

he'd do is sweat. That'd help

1:18:44

him lose weight. Let

1:18:48

me. I'm an asshole. I can be an

1:18:50

asshole. I really can. But when you're an

1:18:52

asshole, I'm an asshole. And I'm a really

1:18:54

good asshole. I had

1:18:59

a lot of training. When you get

1:19:01

around assholes, you start taking their traits. Well,

1:19:03

boy, I'm going to capture that, because if

1:19:05

I might, that might mean you shit sometimes.

1:19:09

Do you want to read off on that? You know,

1:19:11

you've been through the same thing. If you were in

1:19:13

the Rangers, you've been through the same shit I've been

1:19:15

through. You may have not been on the same type

1:19:17

ops, but you

1:19:19

know what I'm talking about. Yeah, you've got

1:19:21

to be a dick sometimes. Everything in the

1:19:24

military boils down to leadership. And look at

1:19:26

the shit we got now in DC when

1:19:29

in charge of the military. Some

1:19:31

of the sorriest son of a bitches you've ever

1:19:34

seen in your life. They fired 200 of

1:19:36

the best damn military

1:19:40

leaders, officers, and stuff that

1:19:42

existed, as far as I'm concerned. I'm

1:19:45

very, I know. Military

1:19:47

and politicians do not mix. Yeah,

1:19:49

I'm going to hit you up.

1:19:52

You're on the Republican side that

1:19:55

are pulling the mark, and

1:19:57

half of them are rhinos. with

1:20:00

the Democrats. There's only one good Democrat.

1:20:02

That party should go away. There are

1:20:04

a lot of them are Marxist, and there's

1:20:06

only one good one. That's Mason from

1:20:09

West Virginia. He's a Democrat, but I

1:20:11

like him. I like

1:20:13

him. And he's left the party and started

1:20:16

trying to start a third party. Herschel,

1:20:18

we have some viewer questions for you

1:20:20

that we want to get to. Can

1:20:25

you tell me who's asking? Yeah,

1:20:27

so well, sort of. We

1:20:30

can tell you what their username is.

1:20:33

So our first question is from Pug. Thank

1:20:36

you very much. Mustache origin

1:20:39

story, please. Oh,

1:20:43

my Mustache? 47

1:20:45

years old, probably older than he is. I

1:20:51

was the only man in the neighborhood of the handlebar mustache.

1:20:54

And I was very proud of that,

1:20:56

not egotistically. But I always wanted to

1:20:58

handlebar mustache. And when we were

1:21:00

doing some things where we had to grow beards

1:21:02

and this and that and the other thing, I

1:21:04

just grew a big mustache way,

1:21:06

way long time ago,

1:21:08

1976. And

1:21:13

I got on a cruise after I was at

1:21:15

team 12. I was riding

1:21:17

an LSD. They had a

1:21:20

BLT aboard, Battalion Landing Team of Marines.

1:21:24

And one

1:21:26

of the crew came and said, Master XO would like

1:21:28

to see you. Thank you.

1:21:30

I'll go out and see. I went

1:21:33

up, saw him, locked

1:21:35

in the hills, tried his desk. Dave,

1:21:37

that mustache off. It's not

1:21:40

regulation. I said, No, sir,

1:21:42

I can't do that. What?

1:21:46

I had a piece of paper from the Admiral. I

1:21:49

said, This is from Admiral Mowin. He

1:21:51

has requested I grow that mustache and I

1:21:53

keep it. He even told me if anybody

1:21:55

ever tells me to shave it off, have

1:21:58

them call me. his

1:22:00

number. Put your paper away.

1:22:02

I'm not calling nobody. I guess you're going to keep your

1:22:05

mustache. Somehow I knew

1:22:07

that. I was

1:22:10

respectful, but he was a little bit of

1:22:13

an asshole shaving a mustache. Well,

1:22:15

you should ask the question first. How

1:22:19

did you get Admiral Lemoine to

1:22:21

write you papers for a handlebar

1:22:23

mustache? How

1:22:26

do I... Well, I

1:22:30

was a good seal. That's all I think I can

1:22:33

tell you. I was a good seal. And

1:22:35

I worked for him and he liked

1:22:38

me and I damn sure liked him.

1:22:40

And he has passed away too. I

1:22:43

went to visit him as he was dying. Done

1:22:46

a lot of that. Not happy. Probably

1:22:50

can't do it very well anymore.

1:22:52

I got a little emotional with

1:22:54

him. Real men

1:22:58

cry too. I get it. Yeah,

1:23:00

that's for sure.

1:23:03

Robert, thank you very much. Did you ever get

1:23:05

to work with the Navy's Hal three

1:23:08

Sea Wolves Huey gunships in Vietnam?

1:23:12

Oh, yeah. Yeah. How five

1:23:15

boys. I was

1:23:17

a recruiter in Utah. I was

1:23:19

his own supervisor. I

1:23:21

was a tough recruiter in Hawaii taking

1:23:23

shore duty. Finally, I had to take it to our

1:23:25

shore duty. When no war is going

1:23:27

on and my skipper called me in, I was

1:23:29

one of... God, we had a ton

1:23:32

of chiefs. Everybody in the damn team was the chief. He

1:23:34

said, the Navy is coming after my chiefs.

1:23:37

You're going to have to go to the fleet master chief

1:23:39

unless you can find something to do for a couple of

1:23:41

years. My

1:23:43

wife didn't want me to go to shore duty because I'm

1:23:45

always gone. So I'll get the hell

1:23:47

out. So I went shore duty.

1:23:50

I went to... Armed Forces courier. I

1:23:52

tried that for a year, but

1:23:56

that wasn't making my ducky clack. So I went

1:23:58

into... recruiting

1:24:02

and I recruited in Hawaii and

1:24:05

I recruited damn good because they

1:24:08

were always calling me can you help

1:24:10

us out we're sure of you got

1:24:12

some yeah that's for our zone

1:24:16

and I had a good

1:24:18

chief recruiter and

1:24:21

I had a good zone supervisor

1:24:26

and did very well as

1:24:28

a matter of fact they fired a lot of the

1:24:30

recruiters there and every time

1:24:32

they'd fire one I'd ask for his area

1:24:34

so I had all the islands and half

1:24:36

of Oahu I didn't have Kauai and

1:24:39

I put a lot of people in the United

1:24:41

States Navy and I was the only recruiter

1:24:45

that flew his own airplane I had

1:24:47

a Cessna 172 I rented the Navy

1:24:50

paid for and I dip

1:24:52

loop I didn't use the work there

1:24:54

I flew all the outer islands myself

1:24:56

and recruited and had cars

1:24:59

there I made e9 black water v 2010 thank you

1:25:02

very much did you ever hear about

1:25:10

the US Marine conducting black ops

1:25:13

on the oh yeah yeah I love the

1:25:15

I got more

1:25:18

jarhead buddies that keep up with

1:25:20

me than I do seals

1:25:23

I really do and a lot of seals

1:25:25

keep up with me but I have the

1:25:27

utmost respect for the Marine Corps I do

1:25:30

them boys if they're not taking

1:25:32

40% casualties they don't even want to go

1:25:36

you know I'm saying hell if I

1:25:38

get a hang now we ought to stay here till we

1:25:40

get fixed yeah but

1:25:42

that was a good bunch and

1:25:45

the jarheads if if these bastards in

1:25:47

DC screw everything up and we have

1:25:49

to go to war here Marine

1:25:52

Corps will go 100% so I like

1:25:58

that Well,

1:26:01

M. Corbin, thank you very much.

1:26:03

How much more effective was the

1:26:05

suppressifier from the Stoner 63 versus

1:26:08

the Chopped RPD 44s? Now

1:26:13

say that again. So

1:26:16

he's asking between the Stoner 63 and the Chopped RPD

1:26:18

44s, was the suppressifier better

1:26:26

from a Stoner? Are

1:26:29

you talking about Frogmen and 44 and

1:26:31

Frogmen and 63? No,

1:26:33

he's... I think he's talking about NAMM.

1:26:35

Yeah. You guys had the

1:26:37

Chopped Down RPD machine guns, the Indig?

1:26:39

Oh yeah, well the UDTs were over there

1:26:42

too. And a lot of times they'd

1:26:44

tag them on a tag along or they'd be going

1:26:46

somewhere to do something. They did a lot of demo

1:26:48

work. We would go in, hose the boys, and then

1:26:50

they'd have bunkers and stuff. The UDTs would come in

1:26:52

and blow them all up. Yeah.

1:26:56

As far as being operational and taking

1:26:58

offs, they weren't doing that, that

1:27:01

I'm aware of. But

1:27:03

there was a UDT team around.

1:27:07

We were always coordinating with them. I mean, the same guys.

1:27:11

They're the same people as we are. We

1:27:13

just have the BM Steel team, the MBN UDT. We

1:27:15

have a different mission. What

1:27:18

did you think... You

1:27:20

guys had the Stoners and the M16s and

1:27:22

the carbines. What

1:27:26

did you think about the difference between the

1:27:29

US-NATO weapons versus the

1:27:31

RPDs, the RPKs, the

1:27:33

AKs? Did you ever

1:27:35

like the Soviet

1:27:38

style weapons for anything?

1:27:40

I gave a lot of them away. I'm

1:27:43

an American. I like American shit.

1:27:45

I do. I shoot a .45. I

1:27:48

carried a Stoner, an M60. I

1:27:52

got a Winchester Model 70

1:27:54

pre-war down there under the bed.

1:27:56

I got a .45-70. I got a

1:27:59

ton of stuff. and all American.

1:28:01

I'm an American. I

1:28:03

don't need anything from the foreigners. They

1:28:05

don't have anything better than what we

1:28:08

got. 45 gods

1:28:10

caliber. The AK

1:28:12

is an excellent weapon. Excellent.

1:28:16

But I didn't want to carry it. A lot of

1:28:18

guys did, but I didn't want to carry it. I

1:28:21

carried my shit.

1:28:24

American stuff. That's what

1:28:26

it's for. I and some

1:28:28

of the son was very temperamental, but

1:28:30

I'm a gun guy. So I didn't

1:28:32

mind because when that baby

1:28:35

started talking, oh, God

1:28:37

dang. Yes. I

1:28:40

just saw something come up from

1:28:42

somebody named Hunter Hayes saying, Good

1:28:44

evening, Herschel. My father worked under you

1:28:47

as a contractor in Iraq. I

1:28:49

attended the Citadel Military

1:28:51

College of South Carolina, and

1:28:53

I was wondering if you

1:28:55

would be interested in speaking

1:28:57

to the SECOC. I

1:29:00

give talks all the time. Be glad to just let

1:29:03

me know what the topic you want. That's

1:29:06

all it takes. And of course,

1:29:08

I got to be able to get it's got to

1:29:10

fit into my schedule so I can get there. But

1:29:13

yeah, I give talks all the time. I'm flattered

1:29:15

when they want me to come give a talk.

1:29:17

So you can reach out to us through our

1:29:19

email and then or whatever, and

1:29:21

then we'll pass it on to

1:29:24

Herschel. And then John Pierre, thank you very much.

1:29:26

Herschel, what do you think of all these naval

1:29:28

assets getting blown up by the Ukrainians? Are these

1:29:30

ships more vulnerable than they're made out to be?

1:29:35

Ukrainians are what are they doing? I think he's

1:29:37

talking about the Russian ship in the Black Sea

1:29:39

that he's getting blown up. You

1:29:43

know, Ukraine is

1:29:46

more a former Soviet

1:29:48

satellite, and they're

1:29:50

all corrupt. And here are

1:29:52

these idiots we have in DC sending them

1:29:54

tons of money and taking it away. We

1:29:56

need to be helping the people here in

1:29:58

America. So they've

1:30:00

destroyed us, look at it, we're like

1:30:03

a third world country now. They're certainly

1:30:05

getting there. And all these

1:30:07

damn logs are coming in over the damn

1:30:09

southern border from everywhere. 10

1:30:12

million now. And that's what their

1:30:14

idea is. They're going to give them all the

1:30:16

green cards so they'll vote democratically. And then the

1:30:18

Republican Party will go away. I

1:30:21

mean, they must think we're brain dead, but a

1:30:23

lot of people are brain dead that vote for

1:30:26

these kind of bastards. They must not read. They

1:30:28

don't study. They don't even know what's going on.

1:30:31

Well, I've always been a Democrat. That guy tell

1:30:33

me down the junk when I throw him a

1:30:35

treasure. Well, I've always been a Democrat. Well,

1:30:38

I was some graves of Democrats on my

1:30:40

brain developed and I haven't been one since.

1:30:44

Yeah. Do you think that

1:30:46

the- Can I answer your question? Well, do

1:30:48

you think that the, like,

1:30:51

are the hits on like

1:30:53

Russian ships, is

1:30:55

that like a

1:30:58

typical maritime or

1:31:00

SEAL style mission with the

1:31:02

SEALs ever? I'm

1:31:04

not asking if the SEALs did this because obviously it's

1:31:06

Ukrainians. But

1:31:09

is that a frogman mission to sort

1:31:11

of hit ships while they're at port

1:31:13

or in low tides, things

1:31:16

like that? Yeah. I

1:31:19

just want to make sure I understand what you're

1:31:21

talking about. We deploy on

1:31:24

ships, but our- But

1:31:28

would you ever like use like limousines? Like

1:31:31

go and destroy enemy ships. Yeah. Would

1:31:33

you ever like, you know, use like rebreathers and

1:31:35

limousines? Oh, yeah, limers. Yeah. Yeah.

1:31:38

Yeah. Zulu-1 Oscar is what it's called. That's

1:31:41

a swimmer attack. You

1:31:43

know, we use our, our

1:31:45

Gregor breathing device, that

1:31:48

German rebreather where we don't

1:31:50

give off bubbles and stuff, can't go below

1:31:52

25 feet and you can't over swim in

1:31:54

there. You're going to convulsions, but you,

1:31:57

yeah, limit minds and stuff. Yeah. I

1:32:01

apologize. That's the U.N.E. team mission. Yeah,

1:32:03

it's now it's SEAL mission. Do you know

1:32:05

what you want to know? Do we have

1:32:08

any other questions? I got the ones from Patreon. Oh,

1:32:10

you got all of them? Okay. Yeah.

1:32:13

And somebody just asked, did you ever step

1:32:16

on a mine in Vietnam? And

1:32:18

if so... Yeah, that was the 18th

1:32:20

September, 1969. I still have a bad back

1:32:22

from that. Yeah,

1:32:26

I took a ride. I was very

1:32:28

lucky. I was very lucky. I

1:32:30

was the 13th man in the patrol. And

1:32:34

I stepped on that some bitch

1:32:36

and when it clicked, I knew

1:32:38

exactly what I'd done. I can

1:32:41

still remember the pressure, the detonator,

1:32:43

the detonation, the pressure on my foot,

1:32:45

my ankle jam, my knee jam, my hip

1:32:47

jam. And I started

1:32:49

airborne. I knocked me

1:32:51

about somewhere between 10 and 15 feet

1:32:54

in the air. Holy shit. And it

1:32:57

was a good one. And all the frag

1:32:59

went to the right. Oh, wow. And

1:33:02

my guardian angel knocked me to the

1:33:04

left. Wow. That's insane. Did

1:33:06

they give you a mustard stain? Did you get a combat

1:33:08

jump for that? Well,

1:33:11

I got two Purple Hearts. That was

1:33:13

my second one. But one little piece

1:33:16

out of that damn booty trap, I think it was

1:33:18

just old. You know, I've

1:33:20

probably been there for a while. Yeah. And 13

1:33:22

people walk on it. Got

1:33:25

a bit fully detonated. It had blown

1:33:27

my leg off. Yeah. But one

1:33:29

little piece punched through my boot

1:33:32

and went right to the edge of my foot. I

1:33:35

bled about three,

1:33:37

four drops of blood maybe or

1:33:39

more. And that was

1:33:41

it. Wow. And I

1:33:43

walked out. There we go. I called a helo to give me

1:33:45

a house. I ain't going nowhere. I ain't

1:33:48

taking me to a hospital. I'm

1:33:50

walking out of here. That's literally,

1:33:52

that is the real life. I

1:33:54

don't, I ain't got time to bleed. Yeah.

1:33:56

Right. From a predator. Yeah.

1:33:59

Yeah. Well. You

1:34:02

know one I wouldn't wanna go to know

1:34:04

hospitals anymore. Yeah yeah. When.

1:34:06

I'm the only one is wanna leave

1:34:09

or not as it is still matters

1:34:11

Somebody wanted. Herschel.

1:34:13

I mean I really appreciate you spend

1:34:16

your Friday evening with us and tell

1:34:18

us about your life and your stories.

1:34:21

Is or anything through this whole interview like

1:34:23

I failed to ask that you really want

1:34:25

to talk about Think it's something that you're

1:34:27

really passionate about. Oh

1:34:30

I'm Passion about everything. I know you. I really

1:34:32

I know you are but it's or is really

1:34:34

think about your history that up.you'd really like to

1:34:37

bring up that I didn't ask about. Well.

1:34:41

Is probably a lot but okay think

1:34:43

of it. should have you done so

1:34:45

much the hours you know. Yeah yeah

1:34:47

it. now I'm when people ask me

1:34:49

certain things are they treat me with

1:34:51

orders on? oh. God yeah, I remember that.

1:34:54

The know. What? I've been

1:34:56

all over the world, everywhere.

1:34:59

The. Only two places I haven't

1:35:01

been is India and Russia. Of

1:35:04

them to China. At all though

1:35:06

there are no need to go. There

1:35:08

is India's most popular place in the

1:35:10

world. And. It's too

1:35:13

crowded you came around. Very good. Got.

1:35:15

The. People a around everywhere on me.

1:35:17

Good God. I

1:35:20

know it's. So.

1:35:23

Her so a sliver for are

1:35:25

you are far younger listeners who

1:35:27

may seek to emulate you Sunday

1:35:29

I Can you give us some

1:35:32

solid handlebar mustache care shit? Whack

1:35:34

is or a lack? Yeah, the

1:35:36

owner that years is it. Like.

1:35:39

I've no idea I'd blow dry by

1:35:41

blowdryer. Dated Yellow? Yeah, I'm going somewhere

1:35:43

Obama when I use a little while

1:35:45

job. I'm gonna be at an area

1:35:48

for a while cause it'll grub down

1:35:50

a little bit. And are you?

1:35:52

I have so much that words. And.

1:35:54

I'll just tighten up the and and

1:35:56

that will hold everything but usually ends

1:35:58

what balls out So. I just use a

1:36:00

little bit of that. But when I'm

1:36:03

around here, I yell blow dried a couple of times

1:36:05

a day with hot water. I'll comb

1:36:07

it down with hot water, get it all soaked.

1:36:09

Then I'll curl it with a comb and blow dry. Is

1:36:14

there a wax that you recommend?

1:36:18

No, hell I wouldn't know one from another. Hell

1:36:21

I'd use duck butter if that's all I can get. I

1:36:24

mean, because we're always teasing feels about their

1:36:26

hair care regimen. And so I feel as

1:36:28

though, like if there's a product that you

1:36:30

have that you like that we should pay

1:36:33

tribute. No, I know. If

1:36:36

you want to hang on, but I don't think it's

1:36:38

necessary, I can go down and get out of my

1:36:40

gift. Herschel,

1:36:43

you mentioned that you're still doing some marksmanship

1:36:45

instruction. Is there anything that you want to

1:36:47

promote that you want to tell people about

1:36:49

classes that they can sign up for or

1:36:52

anything anywhere you want to tell people to

1:36:54

go take a look at? Go

1:36:57

to gun side or come to me,

1:36:59

you know, whatever they want to do. And

1:37:01

if they can get one on one, a weekend

1:37:05

is like a week's of training. I

1:37:07

cover a whole week and come to my

1:37:09

place. Stay right here with me. We

1:37:12

will do all the table talk stuff

1:37:15

and all that kit getting

1:37:17

rigged and all the right things. But

1:37:20

if you're going to have a gun, you've

1:37:22

got to learn to shoot. I don't care where

1:37:24

you go to do it. Yeah, gun sight would

1:37:26

be a best place, but that's going to be

1:37:29

very dear, very expensive with lodging

1:37:31

and all that sort of thing.

1:37:33

But that's where I learned. And

1:37:36

I swear I talked for seven years and

1:37:38

that's an outstanding place. And

1:37:41

matter of fact, the director there now is an

1:37:43

old buddy of mine that I trained a long

1:37:45

time ago, police officer. I think he was

1:37:47

a chief in Indianapolis area.

1:37:51

And he was his last name

1:37:53

and he's he

1:37:55

runs a show there now. Always want me

1:37:57

to come. But I. Just

1:38:00

got other eggs to fly eggs to cry Dude,

1:38:04

do you have do you have like if people

1:38:06

wanted to come train with you? Do you have

1:38:08

a website up or how do people find you

1:38:11

to do that? Oh You

1:38:13

know Tactical

1:38:17

weapons in gun tactical weapons and

1:38:21

Weapons and tactics is my

1:38:24

my company and North

1:38:26

American weapons and tactics and There's

1:38:30

really a you maybe you

1:38:32

can find it on the internet and stuff

1:38:34

But I don't pursue that activity like I

1:38:37

used to yeah, I'd still teach I

1:38:39

got doctors I train I Helped

1:38:42

start a guy place called the

1:38:45

site in Illinois I

1:38:47

bought the land for a very wealthy guy

1:38:49

He just use it as his personal training

1:38:51

area, but I ran schools out

1:38:53

of there and all that stuff and a

1:38:55

former SEAL sniper

1:38:58

from team one retired

1:39:01

runs it now for The

1:39:04

owner and I go out and

1:39:06

teach a couple classes there sure

1:39:08

once a couple days because

1:39:10

I've been training these guys a long time, but they want

1:39:13

to get trained every year and get

1:39:15

back up to speed and That's

1:39:18

about all I do and then I work the police

1:39:20

Academy so That's

1:39:23

it. I and that's very few

1:39:25

weeks three times a year for

1:39:28

our our listeners out there Next

1:39:31

actually on Monday. We're gonna be back

1:39:33

with Jonah Mendez. She was a disguise

1:39:35

officer at the CIA Has

1:39:38

a new memoir out so we'll be back

1:39:40

on month add on on Monday with her

1:39:43

And I'd also would take a two seconds

1:39:45

to plug our patreon Please check it out

1:39:47

if you haven't you get access

1:39:49

to all these episodes ad free and we

1:39:52

really appreciate you supporting the channel and Hershel,

1:39:55

you was he was he part

1:39:57

of work snow cap? Uh

1:39:59

who? Joanna,

1:40:02

no, I don't think Joanna was

1:40:04

ever with Snowcap. I could be mistaken, though. I

1:40:06

mean, I don't know her whole biography. Yeah.

1:40:10

Well, I've read white stuff, and that

1:40:12

boy was a go-getter. I'm

1:40:14

not real sure about the agency

1:40:17

anymore. The government has weaponized

1:40:20

that against conservatives.

1:40:23

I'm a Catholic. I'm a terrorist. I'm

1:40:26

a Christian. Christians are terrorists now. Are you

1:40:28

a Christian? That's what

1:40:31

they're putting the word out now. You

1:40:33

know, over half the people in America

1:40:35

now do not believe in

1:40:37

God. Where in the hell did that come from?

1:40:41

I read that. I mean, that's published. Well,

1:40:44

you're also a veteran, which also

1:40:46

makes you, according to the FBI,

1:40:48

more susceptible to extremism.

1:40:53

Well, you know, yeah, I'm an extremist

1:40:55

because I care about my country. It's

1:40:57

called patriotism where I sit. They

1:41:00

call it extremism because their dams

1:41:02

are not patriots, and none of them ever

1:41:04

been in harm's way unless they bumped into

1:41:06

a hydrant or something with

1:41:08

a car. Yeah, I got no

1:41:10

time for the cowardly sons of bitches. I

1:41:12

may are. And everybody

1:41:14

gets to say, if you've got to calm down,

1:41:17

they're going to come get you. Come on. 83

1:41:20

years old. Come on. Better

1:41:22

bring some good boys with you. Herschel,

1:41:25

thank you so much for doing this

1:41:27

interview with us tonight. And thanks for

1:41:29

being here. It's been a lot of

1:41:32

fun. It's been helpful. It has. It's

1:41:34

been amazing. And we deeply appreciate it. And we'd

1:41:37

love to have you on again sometime, you

1:41:39

know, because we know that we... Cover

1:41:42

the surface. Like, barely scratched the

1:41:44

surface with your career and everything

1:41:47

like that. I

1:41:49

was a blessed man. I was. I've

1:41:52

been very lucky, and I'm blessed. But

1:41:54

hey, if you're in New York, if you ever

1:41:56

come down the Outer Banks area, you

1:41:58

call me. You'll

1:42:00

pay four thousand five thousand a week on

1:42:02

the Outer Banks at my place on the

1:42:05

island. You'll be free Well have

1:42:07

a drink. I got a lot of scotch. I don't

1:42:09

know Jeff stuff. I'll be there. Yeah, I got I

1:42:12

got good stuff I'll

1:42:16

give you a call when I'm coming through town for sure Herschel

1:42:20

Yeah, bring your buddy to you know,

1:42:22

we'll have a good time. We're gonna

1:42:24

have some she-crab soup. Talk dirty. Hell.

1:42:26

Yeah All right guys, we'll see all

1:42:28

of you on Monday, thank you again

1:42:31

Herschel, we'll see everyone then