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details there.

2:53

Please enjoy. First

2:58

up, Dr. Andrew Huberman,

3:00

neuroscientist and tenured professor

3:03

in the Department of Neurobiology at

3:05

Stanford University's School of Medicine.

3:11

I've doubled down on the

3:14

idea, which perhaps I stated last

3:16

time we spoke and perhaps not, But I certainly

3:19

believe that

3:21

our state of mind and body at

3:23

any point in time is strongly

3:26

dictated by our state of mind and

3:28

body in the hours and days

3:30

prior to that. And on the one hand,

3:33

people are gonna hear that and say, well, duh, if you're

3:35

sleep deprived, you're gonna feel like garbage. And if you're well

3:37

rested, you'll feel great. That's

3:39

kind of the top contour of it. But

3:42

when one looks at the neuroscience, for instance, of

3:44

sleep, you start to realize

3:46

that The amount of rapid eye movement sleep

3:49

that you're going to get in any 90 minute bout of

3:51

sleep, because

3:52

your sleep is broken up into these 90 minute segments

3:54

more or less,

3:56

strongly dictated by the

3:58

ratio of slow wave sleep.

4:00

aka deep sleep and

4:01

rapid eye movement sleep that you had in the previous 90 minute

4:04

bout. And then when you start

4:06

to look at the research in terms of

4:08

waking states, you start to find that

4:11

your ability to be focused, say

4:13

for about a work in the morning or the afternoon

4:16

or a creative brainstorm session, or I don't

4:18

know, to maybe drill into some personal

4:20

issue that you're dealing with during therapy or just on

4:22

a walk or while journaling is

4:25

not a square wave function. None

4:27

of us should sit down and expect ourselves to just drop

4:30

into that state. Much

4:32

of our ability to move into that state

4:34

effectively, whatever effective means, right?

4:36

Whatever the target

4:38

or goal of that bout, as I'm

4:40

calling it is, is going to be dictated

4:42

by what happened in the previous

4:44

moments and hours.

4:46

And so

4:47

when I zoom out from that, what I've doubled

4:49

down on is this idea that there

4:51

are just a core set of foundational

4:54

things that we have to re-up every 24 hours.

4:57

I think thanks to the incredibly

4:59

hard work

5:00

of

5:01

Dr. Matt Walker at Berkeley, the sleep

5:03

diplomat on Twitter, right? It's such a great

5:06

name because it's so appropriate. I mean, a

5:08

decade ago or so, you know, it was like,

5:10

I'll sleep when I'm dead. That was the dominant mentality

5:12

out there. And yeah, sleep's great. But you know, getting

5:14

stuff done is more important. I mean, Matt

5:16

has really impressed on everybody that our mental

5:19

health, our physical health, and our ability to perform

5:21

is so strongly dependent on

5:24

our ability to get quality sleep. Maybe

5:26

not every night of our life. I mean, we have to be realistic,

5:28

but that sleep is vital. So, you

5:31

know, a hat tip is insufficient. But,

5:34

so sleep is critical, but sleep

5:36

is just one of about, I would say five things

5:38

that really set the buoyancy

5:41

or the foundation upon which our nervous system

5:43

is able to accomplish these transitions that

5:45

I'm talking about at all. And

5:48

those five things are

5:51

sleep. In the absence of quality

5:53

sleep over two or three days, you're

5:55

just gonna fall to pieces. In the presence of quality

5:57

sufficient sleep over

5:59

two or three. you're gonna function at

6:01

an amazing level. There's

6:04

a gain of function and a loss of function there. It's

6:06

not just if you sleep poorly, you function less well. You

6:08

sleep better, you function much better.

6:11

So sleep, I would say is at the top

6:13

of the list. Nutrients,

6:17

and there you can think macronutrients.

6:19

And so your carnivores are only eating meat

6:21

and your vegans are only eating plants. And

6:23

your omnivores, which is I think probably 90%

6:26

of the world is eating a combination of those. but quality

6:30

nutrients, I think when I look at all

6:32

of the nutrition literature and arguments

6:34

out there, it seems that everyone can agree on one

6:36

thing, which is that probably 80%

6:37

or more of our nutrition

6:40

should come from unprocessed or minimally processed

6:42

sources. Minimally processed would require

6:44

some cooking, but could survive on the shelf, as opposed

6:47

to packaged foods or highly

6:49

palatable foods. So you've got sleep nutrients,

6:51

but then we should also put in micronutrients. And

6:54

this is where maybe we'll get into a discussion about

6:56

supplementation. I think that there's supplementation

6:58

or supplements as a bit of a misnomer because it

7:01

implies vitamin supplements and people say, well, can't

7:03

you get all that from food or that

7:05

whey protein, isn't that just food? Wouldn't you be better

7:07

off

7:07

with a chicken breast? Okay, well then when you talk about convenience

7:10

and the absorption, okay. But then there's this

7:12

huge category of things,

7:14

ranging from the kind

7:17

of esoterically named things like ashwagandha

7:19

and shilaji and tongali and fudoji aggressors,

7:21

right? I mean, it sounds exactly, all the herbal

7:23

stuff, right? You're not gonna get that from food. So

7:26

should we call them supplements at all? So let's

7:29

just say the second thing is nutrients and that includes macronutrients

7:31

and that includes micronutrients as well.

7:34

So those two things. Then the third would

7:36

be movement. And

7:38

this has also been an enormous transition in the last,

7:41

I think just five years, which is not just

7:43

for people interested in bodybuilding or powerlifting

7:45

or for competitive athletes, but now it seems

7:48

everybody,

7:49

including the elderly, understand

7:51

that you need a combination of cardiovascular

7:54

exercise and you need

7:56

resistance training, whether or not it's with body weight or weights

7:58

machines etc.

8:00

You need both. I mean, not a week goes by

8:02

without seeing an article in one of the major publications

8:04

out there, standard media, let's call it traditional

8:07

media, we'll be nice to them, traditional

8:09

media, that highlights some studies showing

8:11

that, you know, resistance training in elderly people

8:13

can offset Alzheimer's or as our friend

8:15

Peter Atiyah has pointed out so many times that many

8:18

of the end of life creating injuries

8:20

are due to people, older people stepping

8:22

down, the eccentric movements. Okay, so

8:25

you need movement, that's the third category. Fourth,

8:28

I will argue, and I like to think that maybe

8:30

I've helped this movement, if

8:33

you want to call it that, is light, in

8:35

particular sunlight in the early part and

8:37

throughout the middle of the day, and trying

8:39

to minimize the amount of artificial light that you're exposed

8:41

to in the evening and late night hours, most

8:44

of the time, because you have to live life.

8:47

Just fundamental. I think

8:49

the last category

8:50

that's important is

8:52

social connection, AKA relationships.

8:54

Let's just call it relationships, because that can include relationship

8:56

to self. So those things

8:59

set up the core foundation. And I think

9:02

one way to think about them is just as a list.

9:05

Another is to think about them in terms of a schedule

9:08

basis. And that's how I've really

9:10

doubled down is I realized that every 24 hours

9:13

I need to invest something into each one of those

9:15

things. So I think that 10 years

9:17

ago or five years ago or even two years ago, I used to think,

9:19

okay, like what's the workout split? Or

9:21

how am I going to eat for the

9:24

next couple of months? you know, what am I trying to optimize

9:26

for? Is it muscle? Is it fat loss? Is it

9:28

just maintaining? Is it energy? Is it focus?

9:30

That's all fine and good, but

9:33

sleep, nutrients, exercise,

9:35

light

9:36

relationships. Those really establish

9:39

the foundation of what

9:41

I consider to be all of the elements

9:44

that create our ability to move

9:47

as seamlessly as possible between the states

9:49

that we happen to be in and the states we desire

9:51

to be in. And when I

9:53

zoom out and I think about what are the major struggles

9:55

that I, and it seems most everyone deals with? It's

9:58

like how to get more focused. Okay, so we... we can

10:00

talk about what do you take? What's the supplement?

10:02

But you have to say, well, how are you sleeping? Have

10:04

you done any exercise? You really always find

10:07

yourself, or I find myself, taking 10 steps

10:10

back and then moving through the sequence of

10:12

five things before you can even begin to talk

10:14

about whether or not taking three or 600 milligrams

10:16

of alf GPC and how often to do that and

10:18

does it work and yes, it works, et cetera. But

10:21

those things really set the foundation. And so I

10:24

like to think of those five things every

10:26

single day. You have to re-up on sleep every 24 hours

10:28

or try to. You have to re-up

10:30

on movement every 24 hours. You can go a day

10:33

or so immobile, but you better

10:35

move the next day, right? And

10:37

ideally you're moving seven days a week. Doesn't necessarily

10:39

mean trying to failure and running marathon

10:42

seven days a week. You can Goggins your life or you can

10:44

not Goggins your life. For

10:46

those of you who don't know, I'm referring to David Goggins there,

10:48

by the way, who seems to never stop moving. Although

10:50

I just learned meditates two hours every

10:52

night,

10:53

every night. And I'm inclined to believe when he says that that

10:55

he indeed does that.

10:57

You need nutrients, even if they come from stored

10:59

sources, even if you're gonna fast, you're gonna

11:01

fast for a day or two, okay, fine. I've

11:04

done that, I know you've done that. I would put hydration

11:06

under nutrients too. So you can

11:08

derive nutrients from stored

11:10

fat, protein, et cetera, glycogen. Light

11:13

is, you're gonna need that every 24 hours.

11:15

You're going to need sunlight, even if through cloud

11:17

cover. And you're going to

11:19

want to avoid bright artificial lights at night,

11:22

not every night, but most nights of your life. And

11:24

then that relationships one is the one that maybe

11:26

we can go into in a little bit more depth at some point, but it

11:29

requires focus. It requires attention every 24

11:32

hours. Now that doesn't

11:34

necessarily mean you have to see friends, talk to friends,

11:36

text friends every 24 hours. Some

11:38

people are far more introverted than others,

11:41

but then you're working on your relationship to yourself in

11:44

that solo time. And hopefully when you're spending time with

11:46

others as well, that has some internal repercussions.

11:48

So if I've doubled down on anything,

11:50

it's the understanding that there is no

11:54

There is no

11:57

real interest, at least for me, in trying

11:59

to layer unless I'm paying

12:01

attention to each and every one of those things every 24

12:04

hours. You have to re-up on

12:06

each and every one of those five things every 24 hours. And

12:09

if you don't, you can get by for a day or

12:11

two,

12:12

but

12:13

pretty soon you're going to hit that wall where you won't

12:15

be able to do any of the things that

12:17

most people are actually seeking to do. And

12:20

the last thing I'll say about that is, you

12:22

know, I think people hear a list of those five things and they think,

12:25

okay, well, that must be nice for you, Andrew

12:27

and Tim. You know, you wake up, you look at sunlight,

12:30

you guys don't have kids, you don't have to worry about kids running

12:32

around, you don't have to, you know, you can exercise.

12:35

There are ways of layering in the protocols

12:37

that

12:38

re-up, as I'm referring to it, these five

12:41

things every 24 hours that also

12:43

include other people in your life, kids,

12:46

pets, et cetera. Exercise

12:48

certainly can include that as well. But

12:52

I would argue that there is no showing

12:54

up properly for yourself

12:56

and for the other people in your life unless these things

12:58

are being handled. And it's not

13:00

about becoming soft and cushy, it's about

13:02

becoming quite resilient and effective. It

13:05

seems so simple, but as our friend

13:07

Paul Conti said to me recently, he said, you know,

13:09

after all the analysis and pouring through things and

13:11

the complicated notions of the subconscious,

13:14

he's a psychiatrist after all, you know, in the end,

13:16

really great mental health is about simple

13:18

practices, like first principles

13:21

of self-care, to which I raised my hand

13:23

and said, well, what is a first principle of self-care?

13:25

I'm a biologist after all. And he said, aha, it's

13:27

basically the things that we were just talking about. There's

13:30

those five things. And so I'm doubling

13:33

down, I'm tripling down on those as

13:35

essential to

13:37

the point where nothing else really happens for

13:40

very long unless those five things are

13:42

tended to.

13:47

Next up, Dr. Peter Atiyah,

13:49

author of the new book Outlive,

13:52

The Science and Art of Longevity.

14:00

while we're on that topic is if I

14:02

drink something that doesn't taste incredible,

14:04

I pour it out. I'm never going to tolerate

14:07

a bad glass of wine ever. It's

14:09

just not worth it. So

14:11

since we're on it, I'm going to pull us back

14:14

to this question of data probably

14:17

through the lens of continuous glucose

14:19

monitors and the best uses

14:22

and maybe the most common misuses for people

14:24

who do not have type 2

14:27

diabetes or type 1 diabetes. But

14:29

let's just sit with the alcohol for a second.

14:31

So what are your personal

14:34

rules for alcohol consumption outside

14:36

of the if it tastes

14:38

mediocre or shitty, it gets

14:40

poured out, which is a great rule. But what

14:42

are your favorite types of alcohol? How

14:45

do you personally navigate that?

14:47

Well,

14:47

I'll start with like kind of quantity. Yeah, so

14:49

I would personally just say there's going to

14:51

be an insane reason to

14:53

have more than two drinks in a day. So

14:56

it's sort of somewhere between zero and two

14:58

and it's got to be a really

15:00

good reason to drink on more than three days

15:03

a week. So in the back of my mind

15:05

I'm keeping a tally which is I really shouldn't be

15:07

having more than about seven drinks in a

15:09

week.

15:10

And

15:11

again, seven drinks in one day is very

15:13

different than one drink a day for seven days. So

15:16

it's the frequency and it's the dose and

15:18

that defines the poison.

15:19

The second thing is I

15:21

really have to make sure that that drinking is

15:24

a

15:24

good three hours away from sleep.

15:27

Again, when I say these things, people say, Peter,

15:29

you must be a robot. No, I'm just saying these

15:31

are general principles. There are going to be

15:33

times when I violate that. I think I posted something on Instagram

15:36

a little while ago, which was like the most rancid

15:38

night of sleep. My sleep data were comically

15:41

bad. And the reason was we

15:43

had friends over. It was very late.

15:46

We drank, we ate. I

15:48

basically went to bed. By the time they left

15:50

at like 1030, I went to bed and we had just finished eating

15:52

sort of and not surprisingly my sleep sucked.

15:55

The

15:55

point I made in the post was,

15:57

I'd do it again. It was a fantastic night.

16:00

The four of us hadn't had dinner together in a long

16:02

time. So you just have to be

16:04

very thoughtful and deliberate about

16:06

the choices and trade-offs that you make. As

16:08

far as the type of alcohol, you

16:11

know, I think people, I think, love to,

16:13

this

16:13

isn't, again, an example of something I think we tend

16:15

to over index to. Oh, you know,

16:17

I drink a lot, but let me tell you, it's just vodka

16:20

and tequila. So it's got to be good for me, right? It's

16:22

like, no, alcohol is alcohol, right? So

16:25

I love tequila. I love Mezcal. I love

16:28

really good wine. and I love really

16:30

dark Belgian beer. I'm not deluded

16:32

to think that any of those are healthy. And I

16:35

know that there are some people who have, you know, a horrible

16:37

reaction to certain types of alcohol. Well, I would put

16:39

that in the same category as people who have a horrible reaction to

16:41

certain types of foods, don't consume them. But

16:44

I think mostly where I focused him is

16:46

on how much am I gonna drink?

16:48

How close is it gonna be to bed? And what's

16:50

the total tally per week and

16:52

never exceed a certain tally in a given day. Next

16:58

up, CEO coach Matt Moschari,

17:01

author of The Great CEO Within,

17:04

which is available on Amazon and

17:07

online as a free Google Doc. One

17:13

of the things I've noticed that I do different than others is

17:15

this what I call biased action. We're

17:17

not going to leave a conversation without

17:20

you having at least one, two or three

17:22

actions to take because I think this time

17:24

spent together is so expensive

17:27

for you, for me, frankly,

17:30

that if we're just going to think

17:32

deeply about things, come to

17:35

answers that are likely, very likely

17:37

to work, and then not

17:39

turn them into actions and do them, and me

17:42

not follow up and specifically see

17:44

if you did them, but then just go to another

17:46

meeting two weeks from now and start all over

17:48

of super expensive time and ideate,

17:51

but not have done anything in between to me

17:53

is just like

17:54

my stomach curls when I think

17:56

about that. So my coaching is is

17:58

all about driving towards. in action. And I

18:01

have a system and the system is all about

18:04

writing that down and checking to

18:06

make sure it got done. And that's it. And

18:09

I find it works with individuals, it works

18:11

with teams, it works with companies.

18:14

And it's called accountability. And

18:16

it can be done in a micromanage, a shameful

18:19

way, or it can be done in

18:21

a I'd like to help you succeed

18:23

way. And of course, as a coach, you

18:26

can stop coaching with me anytime, so

18:28

it's much easier for me to make it feel

18:30

like I'm trying to help you succeed way. If

18:33

I'm your boss and you're giving you a paycheck and you're

18:35

afraid to

18:36

let go of the paycheck, then it can easily

18:38

feel like I'm micromanaging you. But

18:41

there is no difference. When I coach

18:43

someone, I become their manager, period,

18:45

end of story.

18:46

And if by the third meeting, they feel more successful,

18:49

more engaged, more empowered, then

18:51

they know the system works. And it's all written out

18:53

so you can just copy, paste,

18:55

use with their team members. And then

18:58

it works with our team members as well. Let's

19:00

look a little more closely at accountability

19:03

because this is one of my favorite topics. And

19:06

I mean, the tools can be

19:09

rusty, they can be

19:11

even mediocre in a lot of cases. But if you

19:14

use them routinely, it's a lot better than the

19:16

person who has a pristine, perfectly sharpened

19:18

tool that never gets used. And

19:21

for me, and I've thought and

19:23

written about this a lot as it relates to behavioral

19:26

modification, which is what we're talking about in

19:28

many respects, whether that's diet, exercise,

19:31

quitting smoking, starting a new behavior,

19:34

whatever it might be, New Year's resolutions that

19:36

accountability beats

19:38

elaborate planning most of the time.

19:41

I would say all the time. All the time. Great.

19:43

So let me read something. And this is, I believe

19:46

this is either something written by you or your team.

19:49

And I'd love to hear you elaborate on it. If

19:51

we have to do something that isn't fun and we're alone,

19:54

it is painful. But if we're in the presence of another human,

19:56

then we're usually okay to do that thing, which isn't fun.

19:59

other human is. doesn't

20:00

matter too much. It can be our child, our EA,

20:02

or any other random person. Could

20:05

you give an example

20:07

of how this might work? Because I found

20:10

this to peak my curiosity.

20:13

I find that there are generally personality

20:15

types that I encounter when coaching. And one

20:18

big bucket is introvert versus

20:20

extrovert. And obviously, it's a sliding scale, but

20:22

people generally fall one side or the other. And

20:25

extroverts I've known, and I'm an extrovert,

20:28

just feel more comfortable around humans.

20:30

And there are these solo tasks.

20:32

This goes back to in the beginning, you talked about your anger,

20:34

your frustration around having to do these administrative

20:36

tasks that don't create any value, but

20:38

only you can do them because you're the investor, named

20:40

investor individually. So only you can get the K1

20:43

and your assistant can't get it because she's not you.

20:46

And what a pain in the ass. And

20:48

you've got to do it. And you're probably doing it alone.

20:51

And you're probably going, ugh. And

20:53

so I have things like that as well. And plenty

20:56

of extroverts have things. There's some amount of stuff

20:58

you just got to do. And so what I've

21:00

noticed is in my own life, and I've recommended

21:02

this to many people and they've done it like, oh my God, that's

21:04

amazing, is just having another

21:06

living, breathing human in the room

21:09

creates a sense of peace,

21:12

enough of a sense of peace that these

21:14

tasks no longer feel

21:16

so annoying because our body

21:19

is no longer so sensitized. We're sensitized,

21:22

extroverture sensitized when they're in the alone

21:24

position. But when they're not alone,

21:26

their bodies just aren't as sensitized. And so these

21:28

tasks become less onerous. And

21:31

I've literally hired people to

21:33

sit in my office with me on a couch

21:35

reading a book while I do administrative

21:38

tasks and it works. And

21:41

I've recommended this to dozens of people

21:43

and they now do it and it works for

21:45

them. Next

21:50

up, David Deutsch, visiting

21:53

professor of physics at the Center for

21:55

Quantum Computation, a part

21:57

of the Clarendon Laboratory at Oxford

21:59

University.

22:00

and Nival Ravikant,

22:03

co-founder of AirChat and AngelList,

22:06

and this interview's co-host. And

22:11

as an aside, one beautiful output of

22:13

that that I saw in one of your books was that if

22:16

you were to look at, there's

22:18

lots of ways to be wrong, but there's only

22:20

a few ways to be right, or there are certainly less

22:23

ways to be right than there are to be wrong. And

22:25

because the ways that that are right are likely to

22:27

be copied, if you were able to peek

22:29

at the entire multiverse at once, you

22:31

would see truth as a thing that is repeated

22:34

across the multiverse. So I took that in

22:36

a fanciful way as a meaning of life, which is I want

22:38

to be the version of myself that is successful

22:40

in the most instances of the multiverse,

22:43

because that contains the most truth.

22:45

We want to be multiversal crystals.

22:48

Yes, the closer you are to the truth, the

22:50

more of you that exists in the multiverse in

22:53

a very odd way. So there's your

22:56

practical application of multiverse

22:58

theory combined with epistemology. But

23:00

out of this also came all kinds of other interesting

23:03

outputs. I really encourage people to read the beginning of infinity,

23:05

at least the first three chapters, which I think are an easy

23:07

read before you even get in the physics part, where

23:10

you talk about wealth and resources.

23:13

Can you give us your definition of wealth? And

23:15

then as a follow-up to that, I think

23:17

naturally comes, are we running out of resources?

23:21

Wealth is not a number. I don't think it can

23:23

be characterized very well by a

23:25

number. It is a set. The

23:28

set of all transformations

23:30

that you are capable of bringing about, that

23:34

is your wealth. And

23:37

obviously, if optimism is true, then there's

23:39

no limit to wealth. And

23:42

at any one time, there

23:44

is a rough correlation between

23:47

the wealth

23:49

that is the set of

23:52

all transformations that you could bring about

23:55

and other things that aren't very fundamental,

23:57

the amount of money you have or the amount of energy

24:00

you control, or the amount of land you

24:02

control, or the amount of power you have,

24:04

and so on. But those are

24:08

not fundamental. They are all

24:10

outgrown eventually by the growth

24:12

of knowledge. So at

24:15

the moment, if you have a lot of gold, you

24:17

can bring things about by exchanging

24:21

the gold for knowledge

24:23

that other people have. If you want

24:26

a painting of yourself, you can hire

24:28

a painter to make the painting of yourself, even

24:30

if you couldn't. But in the

24:32

long run, gold

24:34

won't do that, because in the long

24:36

run, some other knowledge that is growing

24:39

will be able to get gold

24:41

from an asteroid, and then gold will

24:44

become cheaper and cheaper and cheaper, and

24:47

artists will no longer accept

24:49

gold. Ultimately,

24:53

what they will accept, and it's also true today

24:55

because the economy is

24:57

a rather imperfect

25:00

way of accounting

25:05

for knowledge creation. It's

25:07

true that it's rather imperfect, so people

25:10

can acquire money and power

25:12

and so on, sometimes without

25:15

creating much knowledge. But again, in

25:17

the long run, that is not

25:19

true. So in the long run,

25:21

the only thing you could pay the artist with

25:24

would be more

25:26

knowledge, kind of knowledge that

25:29

he's not good at creating.

25:32

And I love how deep this explanation is. I love

25:34

the reach of it, because it also

25:36

applies at the civilizational level. As

25:38

a civilization figures out how to make more and more

25:40

transformations, everybody gets wealthier. Wealth

25:43

is a byproduct of knowledge. And because

25:45

we can do anything and figure anything that's not constrained

25:48

by the laws of physics, that wealth is unlimited,

25:50

just like knowledge is unlimited. And

25:52

even things that before were not considered wealth,

25:54

we can transform into sources of wealth through

25:57

new knowledge. So this idea

25:59

has tremendous

28:00

dominate people. Next

28:05

up, Michael Mobison,

28:07

head of Consilient Research on CounterPoint

28:10

Global

28:11

at Morgan Stanley Investment Management.

28:17

Now, in addition to the

28:20

wisdom of crowds, there are a number of books that came

28:22

up in the process of doing research for this conversation

28:24

that you've mentioned. And I don't

28:28

mean to imply that we need to spend a ton of time on

28:30

all of these, but I would love to

28:32

at

28:33

least get your

28:35

take on two that have

28:37

popped up and there may be one or two

28:39

more, but I'll mention two.

28:42

One is Against the Gods, The Remarkable

28:44

Story of Risk, and this came to mind because you just

28:47

mentioned risk in

28:49

the context of Switzerland, and the other is

28:51

Complexity by Mitchell Waldrup from

28:53

getting that pronunciation right.

28:56

Why are either or both of these books

28:59

meaningful or

29:01

must-reads or important

29:04

in any way? So let's

29:06

start with Against the Gods. It's written by Peter Bernstein,

29:09

who was a brilliant economist and historian, and

29:12

it is the history of human understanding

29:14

of risk. So it's a fascinating

29:17

thing. Now I'll just say that,

29:19

broadly speaking, I think

29:21

understanding the history of ideas is incredibly

29:24

valuable and pedagogy, generally speaking, right?

29:26

So if I'm talking about an idea

29:28

or I'm using an idea today,

29:31

I think it's very helpful to understand

29:33

where it came from, who were the propagators,

29:36

what were their blind spots, where

29:38

did they take a turn one direction where they could have gone

29:41

a different direction and so forth. And so

29:43

Bernstein just brilliantly lays this

29:45

out in Against the Gods and he was a wonderful

29:47

writer.

29:48

It's a very interesting book. By the

29:50

way, he also wrote a book called Capital Ideas,

29:53

which basically does the same thing for the history of finance.

29:56

So, Peter Bernstein, that is money. And if anybody

29:58

is interested in the idea of how we understand the

30:00

and risk. And this goes back to the Bernoullis

30:02

in the 1700s up to relatively

30:04

modern times. It's a fabulous

30:06

book. I'll give one other backup, one

30:08

little step on this, which is, it's a book

30:11

I almost never talk about. But one day

30:13

when I was a food analyst, I was visiting a

30:15

money management firm. It was actually the state of Michigan,

30:18

the pension fund state of Michigan. And

30:20

I was in the waiting room, literally waiting for my meeting.

30:22

They had a bunch of books, and I just strolled over

30:25

there. And I picked up a book called Bionomics

30:27

by a guy named Michael Rothchild. I don't think anybody's

30:29

image is, I think it's a somewhat obscure

30:32

book. But as a name would indicate,

30:34

you know, and this book was written, I think, originally

30:35

in 1990, and as a name would indicate,

30:38

you know, what he was saying was the way to understand economics

30:40

is really through biology.

30:42

And, you know, starting really in the late

30:44

1800s, but

30:44

into the early 20th

30:47

century,

30:48

economics became very mathematically.

30:50

And in fact, there's a wonderful

30:52

book called More more heat than light by a professor

30:55

named Phil Murawski, which documents

30:57

how economists literally,

31:00

and I mean literally mapped over equations

31:03

from Newtonian physics

31:05

to basically give economics street cred.

31:08

So economics and finance went sort of this mathematical

31:11

slash physics envy route versus

31:14

going more biological. And I think

31:16

that you, in retrospect, you could sort of say that biological

31:18

way would have been a very logical way to go or as

31:21

logical, albeit not as mathematically

31:24

straightforward or tractable.

31:25

So I've read this book, Bionomics, and

31:28

I'm like, this is like so cool. And the guy sort

31:30

of opens the book by saying, hey, you can't

31:32

really understand economies unless you understand sort of

31:34

evolution and so forth. So I was very drawn

31:36

to all that. So that's the backdrop. I'm

31:38

like sort of primed and I'm thinking about this idea. And

31:40

then along comes Waldrop's book,

31:43

Complexity. And this is really the story

31:45

of the founding of the Santa Fe Institute. And

31:48

by way of background, who was founded

31:50

in 1984 by a number of scientists

31:53

who felt, and very prominent scientists, many

31:55

Nobel Prize winners who felt that academia

31:58

had become... to

32:00

siloed, right? So the physicists hung out

32:02

with the physicists and the economists with the economists

32:04

and the chemists with the chemists.

32:06

But again, most of the interesting problems in the

32:08

world were really at intersections of these disciplines.

32:11

And gee, wouldn't it be awesome if we got

32:13

these different scientists to hang out and

32:15

talk to one another? And

32:17

so this is how this thing got going

32:20

in some of the early conferences. For example, one of them was

32:22

the economy is a complex adaptive system, right?

32:24

So the idea of economics being in there early

32:26

on was early days. And

32:28

so why this book is so, I

32:30

think, still to this day kind of exhilarating

32:33

is because you read about

32:36

these scientists and how

32:38

they were coming up with ideas that were far from

32:40

the mainstream. And when we look

32:42

back on them now, many of them have become much more

32:44

mainstream ideas, but it's just, it was super

32:46

cool. And so one of the main protagonists,

32:48

I think the book does open with the story, is Brian

32:51

Arthur, who is an economist now. And,

32:53

you know, Brian was promoting this idea

32:55

of increasing returns. Now, if you've taken

32:57

economics, microeconomics at any point,

32:59

you learn about decreasing returns, right? So if

33:02

Tim's lemonade stands super profitable,

33:04

Michael will open up and let him stand right next door,

33:07

charge slightly lower prices, and so you'll become

33:09

less possible, and then you'll have to match my prices and so forth,

33:11

and we'll compete our way down to less

33:14

profitability, so decreasing returns. And

33:16

Brian pointed out that under certain circumstances,

33:18

there were these increasing returns, there were sort of these winner-take-all

33:21

effects. This is now, again, he was

33:23

writing about this in the 80s and 90s, completely

33:26

heretical, And by the way, like basically the

33:28

mainstream economists wanted nothing

33:30

to do with it. Waldrop and I think in a very engaging

33:32

way describes how all these ideas developed.

33:35

And so if you said the Santa Fe Institute, is

33:37

there a unifying theme? It would be sort of this idea of a complex,

33:40

adapting, evolving system is a way

33:42

of thinking about it. So those would be my answers.

33:45

Those are two wonderful things. And

33:47

my oldest son, before he went off to college,

33:49

he did a gap year.

33:51

And I thought, what would be a list

33:53

of books that would be really great for him to

33:56

read

33:57

internalized and you know I think we had a list of 15 or 20

33:59

books. but these were both on that list

34:02

because I just think it's super cool

34:04

to understand the history of ideas and it's by the way As

34:06

a teacher if you're ever teaching something, I think

34:08

it's just super helpful to know where it came from Like what

34:10

is the genesis of this by the way? There there are a couple

34:13

things that I'm actually trying to track down now These

34:15

are specific finance type of things and

34:17

I'm having a hard time finding the first person

34:19

that come up with it So it's kind of cool right to sort of go

34:22

on these little while goose chases

34:27

Last but not least Performance

34:30

coach, Dr. Kelly Starrett,

34:32

author of the new book, Built to

34:34

Move, the 10 essential habits

34:37

to help you move freely and live

34:39

fully, co-written with Juliette

34:41

Starrett. 800G,

34:47

I assume that doesn't mean $800,000, 800 grams. 800 grams,

34:53

so

34:54

food can be a little sensitive for

34:56

people. When we talk about

34:59

food with people and diets,

35:02

five percent is per performance. I'm

35:05

a cyclist runner, right? I

35:08

want to build muscle. And

35:10

the rest of it tends to be around

35:13

how do I change my body composition? So

35:16

we'll start with that assumption. Now

35:18

here is the non-trigger-trigger

35:21

warning. If you're a vegan, carnivore,

35:24

paleo, vegetarian,

35:26

I'm still talking to you.

35:27

Okay? It doesn't matter what you eat. We

35:31

found that when

35:34

I back up, didn't

35:37

want to ever get near nutrition for

35:39

all the reasons that it's complicated.

35:43

It's highly individualized. It's

35:45

cultural.

35:46

People have strong ideologies

35:49

around it and really personal identities around it. cool.

35:52

I think nutrition for a lot of people has become

35:55

almost like entertainment. It's a hobby. Or religion.

35:58

Sure. down

36:00

to you're working with me and I'm

36:04

worried about your tissue recovery

36:06

or tissue health or you're injured because again

36:08

a lot of times it comes through or we're

36:11

trying to keep

36:11

a lean body mass on you because

36:13

you're aging and it turns out maybe fat

36:16

is a problem but

36:19

keeping your lean body mass is a bigger problem.

36:22

When we actually get into how much

36:24

protein are you eating people

36:27

oftentimes do not get enough protein.

36:29

And so notice that I'm like, oh,

36:32

you want to eat raw bear steak, you knock yourself out.

36:34

You want to do plant P cricket protein,

36:36

you knock yourself out. I don't care. But

36:39

let's see if we can establish what

36:41

a reasonable amount of that is.

36:44

And again, what I really like in

36:46

my life is getting something for nothing. And

36:49

something for nothing in this situation is that we found

36:51

that when people start eating more protein,

36:54

guess what happened? There we got fuller. So 800 grams

36:56

protein today? No. Yes.

37:00

That would be great.

37:02

For the low low price of $69.95 per month

37:05

with a free dialysis machine. All you

37:07

need to do. That's right. So we

37:11

found that a reasonable

37:13

amount of protein was somewhere between 0.7 and 0.8 and

37:15

one gram per

37:17

pound body weight. That's a reasonable amount.

37:19

That's not crazy. We're not going to shock load

37:22

you. Remember a lot of times

37:25

if you're trying to change your body composition or

37:27

heal or grow, you need to make

37:29

sure you have enough protein on board.

37:31

One of the things that we found was this

37:33

was an easy way of controlling satiety

37:35

and actually making sure that people had

37:37

on board what they needed to recover

37:40

and to heal. What I'll ask

37:42

you is if you count the protein

37:44

that your grown children are eating, you might

37:46

be shocked to discover they're actually in some

37:48

pretty low to moderate protein diets

37:51

because it's hard to get kids to eat those things. Okay,

37:54

protein aside. Again, however

37:56

you want to do that is fine with me. vegetarian

37:59

it may be Harder to

38:01

hit your protein minimums. But

38:03

one of the things that we saw a lot

38:06

Was our vegetarian friends would come

38:08

in with these little tenonopathies and some of these issues

38:11

and when we asked them about the whole

38:14

sort of pantheon of potential behaviors

38:16

that went along with that we

38:18

found that they were really under protein and

38:21

the International track and field

38:24

folks everyone sports they

38:26

really have this one gram It hovers

38:28

around one gram per pound body weight. It really

38:31

ends up being a very reasonable number that a lot of

38:33

people agree on.

38:34

Okay. Which is still a lot more than most

38:36

people consider. Great. So guess

38:38

what? Now you have a vital sign. Yeah. Okay.

38:43

So where's the 800 coming? Okay. So

38:45

this is the magic. We have seen

38:47

a

38:48

dearth of fruits and vegetables

38:50

eating. And this 800 grams comes

38:53

from our friend, E.C.

38:55

Sinkowski. came up with this idea

38:57

that, hey,

38:58

what if instead of taking things out

39:00

of your diet, we expanded your diet? What

39:02

if I said, Tim, you want

39:04

to change your body composition, I'm going to have to have you eat a lot

39:07

more. You'd be like, well, sign me

39:09

up. So 800 grams is 800

39:12

grams of fruits and vegetables. And it

39:14

can be, they can be frozen,

39:16

they can be fresh, they can be cooked. It doesn't matter.

39:19

So four big apples is 800

39:22

grams. Right? So It's not as crazy as it

39:24

sounds. It's not as crazy as it sounds. Banana's about 100

39:26

grams, you can think of it that way. So what I'm asking you to

39:28

do is eat fruits and vegetables. And

39:31

what we find

39:32

is people don't really eat fruits and vegetables, they

39:34

talk about it a lot. And they have a little iceberg

39:37

lettuce salad. We've struggled to eat vegetables here

39:39

in Japan. Actually,

39:42

not only have we struggled, but we

39:45

went to a sushi restaurant

39:47

where one

39:50

of our guides, who's fantastic,

39:53

native Japanese and

39:54

I was overhearing and someone's like, why are you

39:56

laughing so hard Tim? And I was like, well, and

39:59

then the guy. explain. She said, well,

40:01

I just asked, where can we get

40:03

some vegetables? What are your vegetable options? Do

40:05

you have vegetables? And they're like, no. It

40:09

says sushi on the door. What's the question? It's

40:12

not a vegetable restaurant. This is a sushi restaurant.

40:14

So we're agnostic about how

40:16

you do that.

40:17

You're like, I'm a rutabaga guy. Cool.

40:19

You want to get 800 grams of rutabaga? But

40:22

buried in there are these things

40:24

called micronutrients, vitamins and minerals.

40:27

And what also bade in there is

40:29

crucial is this thing called fiber, which most

40:32

people don't get a lot of. And

40:34

one of the things we've seen when

40:37

we have gone into this diet

40:39

culture where we restrict and take out, it's

40:41

really not very sustainable. And

40:43

I have two daughters, full disclosure for

40:46

one who aren't, haven't always been the best

40:48

eaters. But if I pack them full of strawberries

40:50

and apples and whatever they want to eat,

40:53

fruits and vegetables wise, again, fruits or or vegetables,

40:55

if you're like, I don't eat vegetables, I'm like, down, cool.

40:57

Just, you do you, you do fruits, that's fun.

41:00

We found that there's a lot less

41:02

room for crap in our diet. And

41:06

all of the research is that 800 grams is

41:08

about this magic number where a lot of really

41:11

good things happen to you from a health perspective.

41:13

Fiber, micronutrients, should

41:16

you eat the rainbow? Sounds great, let's eat the rainbow. I

41:18

try to get six to eight kinds of fruits and

41:20

vegetables every day, it's kind of a game.

41:22

And guess what, tomorrow? six to eight servings. Six

41:24

to eight different types. Oh, types. Yeah,

41:26

so a grape is one, then I had some spinach, and

41:29

trying to eat this diversity. I

41:31

think it was Kate Shanahan of Deep Nutrition

41:33

who wrote that we used to eat roughly somewhere

41:36

between 40 and 50 different kinds of fruits and vegetables

41:38

every year, typical person, in

41:40

America. Now it's like three or four. But

41:43

we just don't eat a lot of fruits and vegetables. And

41:46

those two things, we

41:48

find that we have people focus on getting

41:51

more protein, getting more fruits and vegetables, there's

41:53

just not a lot of extra room for keto donuts.

41:56

You know what I mean? You're like, holy crap,

41:58

I'm really like, guess what?

42:00

everyone white potatoes, it's a vegetable. To

42:02

fried potato, not a vegetable, right? We should

42:04

probably do that. You have been advocating

42:06

for these very dangerous things called beans for a

42:08

long time. Oh boy. Internet,

42:11

you're gonna give me a Brian McKenzie, TED

42:14

Talk, and beans? No, beans

42:17

count towards your grams. I'm like,

42:19

how cool. Redemption. You're eating

42:21

a thing that's

42:23

a plant full of plant matter and fiber. That's so

42:26

great, let's eat more beans, right? And like,

42:29

I think,

42:30

yes, of course, if you're a person

42:32

who's like, beans cause me anxiety,

42:35

not trying to be beanist here, but

42:37

if that's you, you're excused from eating

42:40

beans. And that's what I wanna give people permission

42:42

is saying, hey, I understand you don't like these things.

42:45

What else can we open up to? 800 grams of kiwi

42:47

fruit, do it. Do it, do it. And you know

42:49

what we found is that,

42:51

if you are like, I'm

42:53

only gonna do this with apples, you'll do

42:55

that for four or five days and you're like, What else

42:58

is there? Like, you know, Kiwis

43:00

are super cool. Ah,

43:02

Kiwi every day is a little bit much. And

43:05

again, we're looking at through

43:07

this lens, this built to move lens of

43:09

durability.

43:10

If we keep lean muscle mass on you and get fiber

43:13

and micronutrients in you, you're probably

43:15

going

43:16

to feel better and do better along the hall. And

43:19

maybe we have all the things your

43:21

tissues are gonna need to repair and

43:24

heal. And sometimes that is one

43:26

of our friends described as supply chain

43:28

economics of your tissues.

43:30

There's a reason here in Japan, they eat everything.

43:33

All the collagen, all the skin, all the

43:35

bones, everything, brah, fah gah. Those

43:39

things have been part of our diet for a long time. Yeah,

43:41

totally. So, few

43:43

thoughts for folks also on top of that. So,

43:46

with getting an increased

43:49

volume of vegetables, fruits, vegetables,

43:52

fruits, it may

43:54

make sense if you have the

43:57

savings to do so in the cash flow.

44:00

Look at a list called Dirty Dozen. There

44:02

are certain plants that

44:05

have more pesticide exposure in

44:08

the United States. Totally. And so

44:10

you can use that

44:11

to selectively

44:13

either avoid certain things or

44:16

consider selectively buying

44:19

certified organic so that you're not dealing

44:21

with this. Like a strawberry is my understanding. It's like a sponge.

44:24

So maybe spend your money on better strawberries.

44:27

Yeah. Or like stick with bananas.

44:30

But you'll notice there, it's easy to demonize meat,

44:32

for example. And

44:38

I didn't even say eat organic meat. I just said, whatever

44:40

you can afford, whatever works in your

44:42

socioeconomic system is

44:44

going to be a better health outcome than

44:48

not getting enough protein and fruits and vegetables.

44:54

And now here are the bios for all the guests.

44:57

I am thrilled to have Andrew Huberman

44:59

here with me. So

45:01

great to have you here in person, Andrew. Andrew

45:04

Huberman, who is this Andrew Huberman? Dr.

45:06

Huberman, PhD on Twitter at

45:08

Huberman Lab is a neuroscientist and tenured

45:10

professor in the Department of Neurobiology at

45:12

Stanford University's School of Medicine.

45:15

He has made numerous important contributions to the fields

45:17

of brain development, brain function and neural plasticity.

45:20

Work from the Huberman Laboratory at Stanford

45:22

Medicine has been consistently published in top

45:24

journals, including nature, science,

45:27

and cell. For those who don't know, that's like having

45:29

a sweep at the Oscars. But

45:31

back to the bio, Andrew is the host of the podcast

45:34

Huberman Lab, which is often ranked as one

45:36

of the top five podcasts in the world by both Apple

45:38

and Spotify. The show aims to help viewers

45:40

and listeners improve their health with science

45:43

and science-based tools. New episodes

45:45

air every Monday on YouTube and all podcast

45:47

platforms. You can find all things

45:49

Andrew at HubermanLab.com on

45:52

YouTube. That is Huberman Lab. Instagram

45:54

Huberman lab and also on Twitter as mentioned

45:57

at Huberman lab.

46:32

PeterAtiaMD.com.

48:01

You can find links to the book and many

48:03

other things. And the practice

48:06

website is EarlyMedical.com.

48:12

My guest today, I would

48:15

say, is not only a world-class performer, but

48:17

also one who studies world-class

48:19

performers, advises world-class

48:22

performers. Matt Moschari, you

48:24

can find him on Twitter, at Matt Moschari,

48:26

M-O-C-H-A-R-Y, coaches

48:29

the heads of top Silicon Valley tech investment

48:31

firms and companies on how to be the best leaders

48:33

and build the best organizations possible.

48:36

There are some names you might recognize, including

48:38

my friend, Naval Ravikant, as well

48:40

as Brian Armstrong of Coinbase, Sam

48:43

Altman, perhaps best associated or most

48:45

associated with open AI these days.

48:47

Well done, Sam and many, many

48:49

others. His philosophy and method are captured in

48:51

both the most shari coaching methodology,

48:54

which is available as a free Google Doc and

48:57

in his book, the great CEO within,

48:59

which is available on Amazon and also online

49:01

as a free Google Doc. We will link to all

49:04

of those in the show notes at Timb.blog slash

49:06

podcast. And you can also find, I

49:08

imagine all of them, I believe under the top

49:10

right curriculum at MoschariMethod.com.

49:12

As a

49:15

former founder, CEO and investor, Matt

49:17

knows firsthand the challenges of those roles

49:19

as well as solutions to the most commonly encountered

49:21

problems. His coaching is not questions

49:24

only. There is real guidance. Matt specializes

49:26

in helping CEOs and their companies or

49:28

investment firms transition from freewheeling

49:30

startups to dominant enterprises.

49:37

First let me say that one

49:39

of the secret agendas, not so secret,

49:41

but I'm not sure I've stated it explicitly of

49:44

this podcast is to capture living

49:47

legends, people who have so much

49:49

to offer that I want to capture

49:51

their lessons for posterity. hopefully millions

49:54

can learn from them for decades and decades. That

49:56

is the intention with many of these conversations.

49:59

In this conversation- I should stress from the

50:01

beginning, it's not for professional philosophers nor

50:03

for physicists. It doesn't require

50:06

any hard scientific training.

50:09

This is for curious people who want to learn

50:11

to think more clearly, learn more effectively,

50:14

and perhaps just live more optimistically.

50:17

And I want to introduce first my co-host,

50:20

who is really the lead driver. He

50:22

is the host of this conversation. And

50:24

I do this when I think

50:26

it will be most helpful for the listener.

50:29

I've done it many times on this podcast, Naval

50:31

Ravikant. Close

50:32

friend, you can find him on Twitter at NavalNAVAL.

50:35

He's the co-founder of AirChat and AngelList.

50:38

He's invested in more than 100 companies, including

50:40

many mega successes, including Twitter,

50:43

Uber, Notion, OpenDoor Postmates, and

50:45

Wish. You can see his latest musings on AirChat

50:48

and subscribe to Naval, his podcast

50:50

on wealth and happiness on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

50:53

Overcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

50:55

You can also find his blog at nav.al.

50:59

For more conversations with Naval, you can check

51:01

out my wildly popular interview with him from 2015, which

51:04

was nominated for Podcast of the Year. You

51:06

can learn more about AirChat and Naval

51:09

and interact certainly at getairchat.com

51:12

slash Naval. The guest today

51:14

is David Deutsch. You can

51:16

find him on Twitter at DavidDeutschOxf.

51:20

Last name is spelled D-E-U-T-S-C-H.

51:23

David is a visiting professor of physics at the

51:25

Center for Quantum Computation, a part

51:28

of the Clarendon Laboratory at Oxford University,

51:30

and an honorary fellow of Wolfson College,

51:32

Oxford. He works on fundamental issues in physics,

51:35

particularly the quantum theory of computation

51:38

and information, and especially constructor

51:40

theory, which he is proposing as a new way of formulating

51:42

laws of nature. He is the author

51:45

of The Fabric of Reality and the Beginning of Infinity,

51:48

and he is an advocate of the philosophy of Karl

51:50

Popper. You can find him online

51:52

at DavidDeutsch.org.uk. And

51:55

I should return to what I stated

51:58

initially, that is preserve. the lessons

52:00

of a living legend. David is

52:03

truly a pioneer in multiple fields

52:06

and the hope is that

52:08

with the help of Naval, because

52:09

I am in the passenger seat, I

52:12

am largely silent in this conversation,

52:15

that Naval can help to tease out counterintuitive

52:18

learnings that you can apply to your life and

52:20

apply to your life in many, many different

52:22

areas. And to quote Naval, I

52:25

will say, Quote, I think understanding

52:27

David Deutsch and Karl Popper is the easiest

52:29

way to actually get smarter. Fix your epistemology

52:32

and fix your thinking. So what is epistemology

52:35

briefly because that term comes up a lot? Simple

52:37

definition of epistemology is the theory of

52:39

knowledge, especially with regards to its methods,

52:42

validity and scope. And perhaps this

52:44

is a key part you want to keep in mind, the distinction

52:46

between justified belief and opinion.

52:48

How do you separate fact from fiction? how do

52:51

you stress test your own beliefs? How

52:53

do you navigate reality, construct

52:55

reality in a way that

52:58

is helpful, optimistic,

53:00

and constructive?

53:05

My guest today is Michael Mobison,

53:07

spelled M-A-U-B-O-U-S-S-I-N.

53:11

You can find him on Twitter, MJ Mobison.

53:13

He is the head of Consilient Research on

53:15

CounterPoint Global at Morgan Stanley Investment

53:18

Management. Prior to joining CounterPoint Global, Michael

53:20

was Director of Research at Blue Mountain Capital, Head

53:23

of Global Financial Strategies at Credit Suisse, and

53:25

Chief Investment Strategist at Legg Mason

53:27

Capital Management. Michael originally joined Credit

53:29

Suisse in 1992 as a packaged

53:32

food industry analyst. Some of

53:34

you long-term listeners will perhaps recognize

53:36

some of that from my conversation with Bill Gurley

53:39

and was named Chief US Investment strategist

53:41

in 1999. Michael is the author

53:43

of many books including the success

53:46

equation, subtitle untangling skill

53:48

and luck in business, sports and investing, think

53:51

twice harnessing the power of counter

53:53

intuition which I've mentioned several times on this

53:55

podcast and more than you know finding

53:57

financial wisdom in unconventional places. More

54:00

Than You Know is named one of the 100 best

54:02

business books of all time by 800 CEO Read,

54:05

one of the best business books by Business Week, and

54:07

best economics book by Strategy and

54:09

Business. That's in 2006. Michael is

54:12

also co-author with Alfred Rappaport

54:14

of Expectations Investing, Reading

54:16

Stock Prices for Better Returns. Michael

54:18

has been an adjunct professor of finance at

54:20

Columbia Business School since 1993 and is

54:23

on the faculty of the Heilbrunn Center

54:25

for Graham and Dodd Investing. He received

54:27

the Dean's Award for Teaching Excellence in 2009 and 2016 and

54:29

the Graham and

54:32

Dodd Murray Greenwald Prize for Value

54:34

Investing in 2021. He earned

54:37

an AB from Georgetown University and

54:39

is Chairman Emeritus of the Board of Trustees of

54:41

the Santa Fe Institute, a leading center

54:43

for multidisciplinary research in complex

54:46

systems theory. You can find all things

54:48

Michael at michaelmobison.com.

54:55

Dr. Kelly Starrett, who is he? He's

54:57

one of my favorite performance coaches. I've

54:59

spent a lot of time with him. When I have

55:01

problems other people cannot solve,

55:03

if I have aches and pains, injuries, performance

55:06

goals, perhaps, that people can't spec

55:09

out for me, makes sense of I call

55:11

Kelly. He's also a treasure trove of one-liners

55:14

and is hilarious. So I think you'll enjoy

55:16

our conversation. He has been on the podcast before,

55:19

is very, very popular. Kelly Star

55:21

at DPT, you can find him on

55:23

Twitter and Instagram at TheReadyState

55:26

is, along with his wife Juliet, co-founder

55:29

of TheReadyState. TheReadyState began

55:31

as mobility-wad in 2008. Just

55:34

a side note, Kelly's like 230 pounds

55:36

of pure muscle with quads bigger than

55:38

my chest and he is more

55:41

mobile and flexible than I am. Full

55:43

lotus, no problem. Couch stretch

55:46

until you think your hips would explode,

55:48

no problem. So he really walks

55:51

the talk and squats the talk, as

55:53

it were. All right, so the rate of state began as mobility

55:55

wad in 2008 and has gone on to transform

55:58

the field of performance therapy.

56:00

and self-care. You know, I'm going to keep

56:02

adding in little tangents. I think it was for

56:04

Kelly's 40th birthday he decided,

56:07

and he'll have to correct me if I get this wrong, that

56:09

he wanted to do a few things to celebrate

56:12

his 40th birthday and

56:13

market as a milestone.

56:16

And if my memory serves me, it

56:18

was a standing back flip. Remember

56:21

the dimensions that I mentioned. It

56:23

was running an ultra marathon,

56:25

the quadipsy.

56:27

So look at that up. It is no joke. Again,

56:29

remember his physical dimensions and then power

56:31

cleaning something like I have no idea 300 pounds, 350

56:34

pounds, something outrageous. So

56:36

that is Kelly Starrett. He is

56:39

the decathlete of power

56:41

and mobility. So let's get back to

56:43

the bio. His clients include professional

56:46

athletes in the NFL, NBA, NHL

56:48

and MLB. That's Major League Baseball

56:50

for folks outside the U.S. He also works

56:52

with Olympic gold medalists, tour de front

56:54

cyclists, world and national record

56:57

holding, Olympic lifting and power athletes,

56:59

CrossFit Games medalists, professional ballet

57:02

dancers, elite military personnel, and

57:04

much more. Kelly is the author of The

57:06

New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestsellers, Becoming

57:09

a Supple Leopard and Ready to Run. His

57:11

new book is Built to Move, subtitled

57:14

The 10 Essential Habits to Help You Move

57:16

Freely and Live Fully, co-written with

57:18

Juliette Starrett. Her

57:20

name has come up a few times now, and I've known

57:23

Juliette for a long time. Who is Juliette?

57:25

have to mention a few things before

57:27

we move on. So Juliette trained

57:30

as an attorney. She's done a million different

57:32

things, badass in business,

57:34

incredible operator, but also

57:37

she was the US national champion in extreme

57:40

whitewater racing from 1997 to 2000, world champion

57:44

from 97 to 98. She

57:46

returned to the sport in 2018

57:49

to become world champion in the master's division.

57:51

So she is also very smart, very

57:54

capable, very fit, and both

57:56

of them as a team have really thought

57:58

through what it. takes

58:00

to build yourself to

58:02

move. Hey guys,

58:04

this is Tim again. Just one more thing before you

58:06

take off and that is Five Bullet

58:09

Friday. Would you enjoy getting a short email

58:11

from me every Friday that provides a little fun before

58:14

the weekend? Between one and a half and two

58:16

million people subscribe to my free newsletter,

58:19

my super short newsletter called Five

58:21

Bullet Friday. Easy to sign up, easy

58:23

to cancel. It is basically

58:25

a half page that I send out

58:27

every Friday to share the coolest things I've have found

58:30

or discovered or have started exploring

58:32

over that week. It's kind of like my diary of cool

58:34

things. It often includes articles I'm reading,

58:36

books I'm reading, albums perhaps,

58:39

gadgets, gizmos, all sorts of

58:41

tech tricks and so on. They get sent to me

58:44

by my friends, including a lot of podcast guests.

58:47

And these strange esoteric things end

58:49

up in my field and then I test

58:51

them and then I share them with you. So

58:54

if that sounds fun, again, it's very

58:56

short, a little tiny bite of goodness

58:58

before you head off for the weekend, something

59:00

to think about. If you'd like to try it out,

59:03

just go to tim.blog slash Friday, type that

59:05

into your browser, tim.blog slash

59:08

Friday, drop in your email and you'll get the very next

59:10

one. Thanks for listening.