0:05

Alright, welcome to the Trash Reliance Podcast.

0:08

I'm Brent Halliburton. I'm back! Yeah, let's

0:10

go! Me and Mike

0:13

and Cam and Liam, we're all here.

0:15

That means attendance is 133%. The

0:18

Trash Language Podcast is the only podcast

0:20

about the Pokemon Trading Card Game. I will keep saying

0:22

it until it's true. Speaking of which, guys,

0:24

I don't know if you guys were watching the EUIC stream,

0:27

but there was a point where they were, like, interviewing a guy

0:29

about how he prepares for tournaments,

0:31

and he rattled off a bunch of podcasts

0:34

and did not say ours. I don't

0:36

know who that guy was, and, like,

0:38

That's probably a lesson to him, but like, possibly

0:41

banned from ever appearing on this podcast.

0:46

I was like, how can you name a bunch of podcasts

0:48

when we are the only podcast? It's ridiculous.

0:51

Anyway, no new 5 star reviews. If

0:53

you leave a review, we'll read it on the pod. It's a thing

0:55

we do. Dragonshield sends us sleeves

0:57

because they are the GOATS, and

0:59

we appreciate them very much. Their

1:04

sleeves are the best. People will tell you they have

1:07

problems, but they're better than all the others.

1:09

Anyway, alright guys, one

1:12

of us attended EUIC, the rest

1:14

of us watched on television two

1:17

of us are going to Orlando in

1:20

six or seven days, we gotta like, I

1:23

need you guys to explain to me what the actual play is.

1:25

Liam has been tweeting aggressively about

1:27

playing not Staldex, I think there's a lot

1:29

to talk about in the next hour.

1:32

when is Liam not tweeting aggressively, is the

1:34

real question.

1:35

Yeah, I've been, I've

1:37

been on a crazy streak. I,

1:40

I don't know, I feel like a few months ago I had a

1:42

little bit more of a filter. Like, like, the filter,

1:44

like, kind of fluctuates with time.

1:46

You know, like, I go, I have these like periods

1:49

where I'm just You know, I'm going crazy.

1:51

The thoughts are flowing. And then there's others

1:54

where, like, I just, you know, every day

1:56

I wake up and I'm like, I don't need to tweet today.

1:58

I don't have those thoughts right now. I'm definitely just

2:00

letting it rip.

2:02

you know, I'm always telling Liam, look

2:04

at Jason, role model for the game.

2:07

Maybe the second best player in the history of the game,

2:09

but still a good ambassador for

2:11

Pokemon. And as world champion,

2:14

it's important you be a respectable ambassador.

2:17

And I think in about 20 percent of Liam's tweets,

2:19

that really comes out.

2:22

You made it into the Philly Discord the other

2:25

day as well when you were talking about the willpower

2:27

and whatnot. There's a bunch of local people

2:29

being like, what is he talking about?

2:31

And

2:32

you know, though, right? You

2:33

yeah, you just gotta believe Baby

2:36

if, if you will, that to be true, it

2:38

always happens.

2:39

I mean, there's only one way Tord can be

2:41

that consistent, and it's unshakable

2:43

faith in the heart of the cards.

2:44

it, it is, it really is, like, that,

2:47

when you think about guys, like, toward, like, Isaiah,

2:49

like, what separates them from the rest of the

2:51

pack, it's the entire game,

2:54

they're thinking about winning, that's all they're thinking about, they're

2:56

thinking about how they can win, whereas, like, everybody

2:59

else, as soon as they sit down for round four,

3:01

they're thinking about lunch, like, I, I can just

3:03

tell, and, Like,

3:06

that's the difference between these guys. Some people

3:08

are trying to win, and some people are like, they're

3:11

just here to play. You know?

3:14

And when you're trying to win, every

3:16

single card, every card you topdeck

3:18

becomes good, because the only thing that runs through

3:20

your mind is, how can I use this card to win?

3:22

It's the only thing. And you

3:24

just think about it until you figure out a way to win.

3:27

And all of a sudden, no matter what you draw, you always win.

3:29

That's why, like, you will good cards into existence.

3:32

Like, it's a simple, simple

3:34

process.

3:35

you know who was trying to win this past weekend?

3:38

Cam Cam

3:39

No, he wasn't! No, he wasn't! No,

3:41

he

3:41

win a little bit, you know, just like a decent amount,

3:43

but didn't want to win egregiously.

3:45

But then around four he was like, Lunch,

3:48

lunch in London lunch.

3:51

So Cam, you decided to

3:53

play Ancient box and you

3:56

actually don't know a hundred percent. You finished, you

3:58

made day two, right?

3:59

hmm. I finished 119th.

4:01

made sure of

4:02

final record was 9

4:04

4 2. I deeded my way into

4:06

Day 2 at 6 2, which I know

4:09

that Liam was against, and

4:11

I don't think if I wanted to win the event was

4:14

necessarily the best decision, but

4:17

I wanted to almost guarantee my

4:19

invite. I needed

4:21

to get back to Day 2 at some point this season,

4:24

and went 3

4:26

2 1 in Day 2, and alright,

4:28

not, not a great record, but a winning

4:31

record. And so, it

4:33

was alright, I, I really like the deck, I

4:35

think the deck is, it's

4:38

decent enough against Charizard we

4:40

were planning on really

4:42

Nozard playing like, Lost City

4:44

or Heavy Turo, and

4:47

the ones that I ended up playing and beating, they

4:49

might have had Turo. I think they did end up having Turo,

4:52

it didn't matter. But maybe

4:54

not as heavy, not as heavy

4:56

as some of the lists that won, plus

4:58

Lost City and Kalz, which

5:01

I think are the big three Charizard. Kalz

5:04

variant, Taur's variant, and then

5:07

I apologize, I don't remember his name, but just kind of like

5:09

the standard top 4 list. And

5:12

William Veto.

5:13

yeah and that top 4 list is probably

5:15

the one I'm best against. The one

5:17

I'm worst against is probably Kals, and

5:20

like, Tord's is kind of in the middle. But

5:22

outside of Zard, everything else feels

5:24

fine. And so I just thought it was

5:26

a really good deck, that it's a one

5:28

prizer, that hits for a lot of damage, you

5:31

have really long games, just because you're a one

5:33

prizer. And it ended up being

5:35

pretty solid but the issue with

5:37

ancient boxes, it bricks sometimes and I bricked

5:39

a couple times.

5:40

Let's start there. 'cause we saw. We

5:43

saw some other Ancient Box

5:45

also do well notably Gabriel,

5:48

or Gabriel Fernandez won in Seniors,

5:50

his older brother Vinny made Day 2 and I think

5:53

finished, like, Top 64,

5:55

I

5:55

shouted out Liam for his work on the deck.

5:58

So Liam was in there.

5:59

you very much.

6:00

I know Xander Perrault also played

6:02

a list that was kind of like in between

6:05

your list, Cam, and and Vinny's.

6:07

So. And then, and then also

6:09

related, not exactly the same deck, but not too

6:12

different, is the Roaring Moon Dunsparce deck, which,

6:15

which we can, we can loop into this conversation

6:17

as well. So one thing that is different

6:19

about your list compared to Vinny

6:22

and Gabriel's is you have a lot of research. You have three

6:24

research. I think Xander had two research.

6:27

So like I said, somewhere in between. Why'd

6:30

you go with the heavy research?

6:33

I think it came down to, you

6:36

need to Sadas every other turn is

6:38

kind of the plan because you Sadas

6:41

just do things, you attach, and then they'll

6:43

knock out and you can kind of attach and try

6:46

to weave in a different supporter than

6:48

Sadas during that turn, a boss is

6:50

one of them, if you can target out something on the bench,

6:52

that's great, usually that's maybe

6:54

later in the game and then Explorer's

6:57

Guidance, which I know everyone, everyone is

6:59

playing at four of, that card

7:01

kind of just feels really bad to play.

7:04

It sucks. It's terrible. I

7:08

so, I was working on a list with my friend

7:10

Aban, Research was the card

7:12

we came up with, just because, if

7:14

you you just kind of want to refresh your

7:17

hand sometimes, you don't want to just add to like,

7:19

if you have like a three card hand, you don't want to add

7:21

two cards to that, and you're dumping

7:23

the Explorers, right, so you're, and you're like plus

7:25

one ing, essentially so we just

7:27

tried research and ended up pairing really well with

7:29

Pokigear because you can Pokigear four explorers

7:32

and then research it away and it's essentially

7:34

like a plus ten. And then

7:36

it just kind of helps you get to the bottom of your deck or

7:39

closer to the bottom of your deck, which is kind of

7:41

what Pokigear does. Ancient Box wants

7:43

to do and so it's

7:45

just a better card than Explorers, I think,

7:47

and it really makes your next

7:50

hand much better. Out of seven

7:52

cards, like, if you see

7:54

a not a Welder, a Sadas off of

7:56

your Explorers, you kind of have to keep it,

7:58

even if you have other good cards in there. If

8:01

you research, you get, you get to keep everything.

8:03

You get to keep your countercatchers, your energy,

8:05

your sadas, your whatever else

8:07

you want to keep. And it

8:10

actually is pretty good to help set up initially.

8:12

If you go first and you attach

8:14

and then you have a research or then you like

8:17

attach again, research, and then you should be

8:19

kind of set up from there and you're hitting at least,

8:21

you know, 120, 150, depending

8:23

on what you're attacking with, whether it's the Karidon

8:26

and the or the Roaring Moon, but just

8:28

felt pretty solid. Compared to the

8:30

other supporter options.

8:35

Make sense? Make sense to me? I

8:37

agree. I've even,

8:39

PTCG

8:41

deck, we talked a little bit about that last week, and I've

8:44

been slowly adding more research

8:46

into that list as well for similar,

8:48

for similar reasons. The other, like,

8:51

major difference is you

8:53

played Primecatcher.

8:55

Mhm.

8:56

Why Primecatcher over the over the drum?

8:58

It's actually specifically, I mean it's

9:01

just a good card in general, but the

9:03

matchup that I practiced a lot against was

9:05

Charizard, and if you actually

9:07

look at the seniors

9:09

finals, there was a situation

9:12

which I don't think either player

9:15

Realized in the moment was that

9:18

the ancient box player Gabriel didn't

9:21

pal pad back boss's

9:23

orders at the end of the game.

9:26

And so what they're assuming

9:28

is gonna happen is that the Charizard

9:30

player takes a knockout and

9:32

goes down to one. And then you can go, oh

9:34

yeah, I have my countercatcher. And

9:37

I'll gust up, because I'm at

9:40

2, you're at 1. And then we've realized,

9:42

a good Zard player, when we practice the matchup a lot,

9:45

you're so low in your deck, the Zard player can

9:47

actually just push up a 1 prizer if you have no

9:49

gust, and say, no actually,

9:51

you need to take the 1 first, or,

9:54

if you pass, you're gonna deck first before me,

9:56

and you just get into the stalling more. So,

9:59

I felt like, boss,

10:01

I ended up on 2 Palpat and Primecatcher.

10:04

Gave you enough gusts at the end where

10:06

you can not try, you can try not

10:08

to get locked into that situation where

10:11

you're both kind of just stalemated, but

10:13

Charizard has the advantage because you've thinned

10:15

yourself down to like 4 cards

10:17

in deck and they can just pass 4 times or something

10:19

like that. And so having a

10:21

lot of gusts kind of helped a

10:24

little bit. Now, when you draw it can

10:26

kind of be important in the Tarzan matchup, but

10:28

it kind of helped that one situation.

10:30

And if And

10:32

my whole plan was to not go

10:34

down to one prize against

10:37

Zard and it actually,

10:39

most Zards I went to one against Zard,

10:42

I think they just assumed they would roll me, and then

10:44

I only lost one because I double Bricked, so

10:46

the Gust really helps, and I think

10:48

it catches them off guard when you can like start

10:51

hitting their Pokemon pretty

10:53

you know, the ones you want to hit, and

10:55

not go down to two and like target down the Charmeleon,

10:57

and target down the Rotom. The damages aren't

10:59

on the bench, so, yeah.

11:03

So with so I guess a little bit of the consequence

11:06

of playing one less explorer and

11:08

no drum is that you just have

11:10

two less ancient cards, right? So

11:13

do you feel

11:15

like you're, like it's already

11:17

really hard even with both of those

11:19

extra cards to hit the 330. So is

11:21

your list ever hitting the 330 or not

11:23

No. It's, that's never happening,

11:25

and I just assume that if

11:28

they didn't play heavy Turo, that you can

11:30

just two shot, right, like, that's, that's

11:33

kind of the, the trade that you do because

11:36

you're, you're one prizer, you can hit him

11:38

twice, they can hit you to

11:40

kind of even out the two prizes they're taking, and

11:42

then you maybe make one up on like a Pidgeot

11:45

or a Rodom or a Luminium that they had to bench.

11:47

At some point just to get set up.

11:49

Vinny's List hits for a 330, Vinny's List

11:52

does,

11:53

Yeah, in the dream scenario, but it didn't hit

11:55

it in the, you can see how hard it

11:57

is, even if your deck is set for it,

11:59

because Vinny's Gabriel never hit

12:01

330 and was like, Yeah,

12:03

at least 50 off, like, every single time,

12:05

so, even a list with more

12:07

and more discard. Yeah,

12:10

I know, you know, Liam's shaking his head, but,

12:12

A, real life sometimes,

12:13

He watched two games, he watched two games, I

12:16

played that matchup a lot more than

12:17

I'm, yeah, I'm just saying, yes, it can happen,

12:19

I just don't think it happens all the time and I'd

12:21

rather have the gust than, like,

12:24

more mobility and more choosing what I get a knockout

12:26

than, like, a 330 that

12:28

The gust is

12:29

late game, maybe.

12:31

The gust is mid. The scenario that Cam

12:33

just gave, he was like, Did you know

12:36

that if they don't choose

12:38

to Palpad the Boss for whatever reason, you can

12:40

run out of Gust, and this is why you need the Pride

12:42

venture. Like, just Palpad the Boss, it's fine. You

12:44

easily have enough Gust. The Gust is not

12:46

super good with the deck, you can just hit through everything. As

12:48

long as you play enough Ancient cards, you just dump. And

12:51

yeah, Vinny's List is really good. I like Vinny's List.

12:53

Best list.

12:58

I'm gonna play around with them a

13:00

little bit. Like I said, I've mostly just played

13:02

around with the Moondunsparce, which can obviously

13:05

never get anywhere near 330, so it's more of

13:07

like a two shot game.

13:09

Did you play around, Cam, with the Moondunsparce

13:12

at all, or not

13:13

No, I just didn't have enough time. Maybe

13:15

if I had more time, I actually said that I might

13:17

have ended up on that list instead.

13:20

It's pretty cool. I actually think

13:23

it I don't think it does well into

13:25

the normal Ancient Box, but it's

13:28

probably more consistent in the midgame just because

13:30

of the Dunsparce which is a really cool

13:32

card and a nice way to just

13:34

always have a pivot, which sometimes, like,

13:36

if you don't hit your Sadas or you just don't find

13:39

your basics, like, with Ancient Box

13:41

it can kind of stink. So That kind of gives

13:43

you another consistency out, I

13:45

guess, in some ways.

13:48

Yeah, for sure. One thing

13:50

that I've been telling some of

13:53

My local friends that have been trying to play the Ancient

13:55

Box. I feel like Ancient Box might be a misnomer

13:58

because, like, you're still not really attacking

14:00

with Corridon and Fluttermane, like, ever,

14:02

pretty much, I assume, right? Like, it's like 90

14:05

percent of the time, 95 percent of the time, you're just attacking

14:07

with Roaring Moon and not going wide with your board,

14:09

just trying to build up the discard. Am I right

14:11

with that? Heh

14:13

I've, I actually, we use Karide

14:15

on a decent amount. I

14:17

think, like, just what I'm trying

14:19

to accomplish compared to Vinny's

14:21

list is very different. I'm, like,

14:24

I know Liam is shaking his head, but it's just

14:27

a different approach to the deck. And I think

14:29

that's the misunderstanding on his side. Like,

14:31

I'm not trying to do what Vinny's doing. And

14:33

that's okay. I'm not saying Vinny's list is bad.

14:36

I'm just saying, like, my, I'm trying

14:38

to accomplish something different here. And

14:40

so, like, being able to two shot, like, Karidon, going

14:42

150, and onto

14:46

a Charizard, and then you just need to hit

14:48

180 with a

14:51

You know, you just need to have 11 with

14:53

Roaring Moon to finish the knockout,

14:56

to hit 330, that's not too bad. And

14:58

if they ever, I found that people try to target

15:00

down your Ninja, so actually,

15:03

it's pretty funny that if you

15:05

go down 150 and they target down

15:07

your Ninja to, to be like, Oh, I'm not going

15:09

to put things in the discard and try

15:12

to hit your draw, you just bench another.

15:14

Ancient. And you're actually like, Oh, 150

15:16

plus 180 is 330 again. So

15:19

it's You know, just different

15:21

situations yeah, you'll never hit the

15:24

330 one shot now because you have six

15:26

Ancients on the board, but

15:28

When I guess, so I guess like the magic number

15:30

for your list in a lot of matchups then is like

15:32

that, that 160, 170,

15:35

yeah, it's 19, I think

15:37

you need for Roaring Moon specifically, if

15:39

you try to two shot with Roaring Moon, it's 19 over

15:41

two turns, like 9 and 10, 7

15:44

and 12. That's what gives you the 330.

15:47

all right any, any

15:49

other like notable games or anything

15:52

that you want to talk about from your run?

15:54

You can go round by round, but don't feel,

15:56

don't feel like you have to.

15:57

I just think, I

15:59

actually think

16:02

the deck is still, it's an

16:04

interesting deck. I don't want to say it's

16:06

like the best, well

16:08

placed, you know, it doesn't have, it has a suspect

16:11

Zard, especially against kind of the list that

16:13

came out with double Turo

16:15

and Taurids and this control version in

16:17

Kals, which I think maybe, you know, won't

16:20

get as much traction because Kal ended

16:22

up kind of not doing as well in the

16:24

end, even though he had a great run. Nonetheless,

16:26

and it's a really good list but

16:28

against everything else, I think you're kind of

16:30

like a counter to the counter, right? Like if anyone

16:32

picks up Gardi, if anyone picks up Tina,

16:35

if anyone picks up Future Hands, you

16:37

kind of beat all these other decks and

16:39

you're like, ah, Zard low rolls,

16:42

then maybe I'll take it, which is kind of like,

16:44

it's not exactly Mariadon, but kind

16:47

of my thought process in Mariadon

16:49

last, you know. Pre rotation just like

16:52

hire all these other decks and maybe

16:54

you'll just beat the Zard and that's okay.

16:56

Did, did, did you, you felt like you had

16:58

a good, like, future

17:01

hands matchup going into the event?

17:03

It's entirely dependent on if they know

17:05

how to play the matchup and I think

17:07

the Prime Catcher also really helps

17:09

there

17:09

Yes, yeah, Primecatch is really good for that,

17:11

in that specific matchup as well.

17:13

If they know what they're doing Prime Catcher actually

17:16

makes it so you're not just entirely Dependent

17:18

on if they know what they're doing, you have

17:21

a little more autonomy with the gust to go after the

17:23

hands early and things like that.

17:26

you go up there, yeah.

17:28

But yeah, that's what I think about the deck. I might still

17:30

play it. I'm not sure. I'm trying some other stuff. These

17:32

are lists are really good. But ancient

17:34

box probably won't be like. The

17:37

BDIF ever and I think it's actually

17:40

decision making in the late game is

17:42

maybe harder than people

17:45

will anticipate because you can set up checkmate

17:47

because you're like, well, I only have five

17:49

cards in hand and two cards in deck

17:51

and I'm not going to get down to

17:53

Iono to one and I can kind of stack

17:55

my deck a little bit and almost guarantee it through

17:58

the Iono which is actually one of the strongest

18:00

parts of the deck, I think. But,

18:02

it also has it's weaknesses, I think a Pidgeot Zard,

18:05

it will never, not a Pidgeot Zard, Pidgeot

18:07

Control, it will never beat, and

18:10

a really good Zard that's hitting on

18:12

all cylinders probably won't beat

18:15

That was the question I was gearing up to ask

18:17

you, was whether or not

18:18

Dude, what did, what did you find, you

18:21

find super hard about the Pigeot matchup?

18:24

Pidgeot Control. I mean,

18:27

let's

18:31

like, if they're playing Mawile and

18:34

then they'll just trap, that's kind

18:36

of the big thing, is they'll just trap your your fluttermanes

18:39

eventually. They keep Erikazing

18:41

and you'll just run out of energy that way. If

18:43

you just try to stick to Double Moon

18:46

or something like that. But even then, like Double

18:48

Moon, they bring up one fluttermane, you

18:50

need to put three energy down, and then they put down another

18:53

fluttermane and you're out of energy all of a sudden.

18:56

yeah.

18:57

So I have one other question about Ancient Box. Are

19:00

is, like, is Gabriel the next big thing?

19:02

Are the Fernandes brothers gonna

19:05

surpass the Shemeski brothers as, like, greatest

19:07

brothers of all time? You

19:09

know, ten years from now, we look back and say, the

19:12

Fernandes brothers, they're the greatest thing ever.

19:15

They might be. They're pretty good. They're

19:17

pretty good. I know Liam really likes

19:19

them. So Liam, why don't you tell

19:21

us?

19:24

I mean, easily the best seniors

19:26

run out of any

19:28

brothers, I think. Maybe Mike

19:31

with the infinite old head knowledge

19:33

will prove me wrong, but Yeah,

19:37

I mean, absolutely insane run in seniors.

19:40

Vinny is one for one on winning

19:42

US regionals. And

19:45

the, you know, pretty

19:47

solid placements everywhere else. Had,

19:50

like, one event in the last three years that

19:53

they've attended that they haven't won. Pretty

19:55

good.

19:56

Yeah, that is pretty good. Yeah, I mean,

19:58

there's definitely, Seniors has, in

20:01

history, has had, like, a bunch of very

20:04

dominant players. I mean, you look at Michael

20:06

Long, I mean, there's some questions

20:08

there, of course, but he had an insane run.

20:11

Way back in the day, the,

20:13

the same dude won, like,

20:17

only one regional a year, like one regional,

20:19

one US nationals, and one world,

20:21

like all in The

20:24

three major tournaments of the whole year. Stuart

20:28

Benson. If

20:32

you guys remember Blaine Hill, he top baited

20:34

Worlds a couple years ago. He had an older brother,

20:37

Jordan, who like won like

20:39

a ton of stuff, but I mean, What

20:42

we're seeing from Gabriel is, is just

20:44

as impressive, if not more impressive than all of those.

20:47

And, and the difficulty of events

20:49

now is, is significantly, significantly

20:53

more, especially in seniors.

20:55

Like, I think, I think like the difficulty in

20:58

Masters is like it's

21:00

like definitely at higher level, but it's

21:02

But, like, there's other factors too, of

21:04

like, you know, That we don't need to get into

21:06

right now, but I think seniors is like undeniably

21:09

much harder than it was earlier

21:12

man. Coaching is crazy. These

21:14

Yeah, right, right, right, right, right, right, right. That's like

21:16

a really big part of it.

21:17

Yeah, everyone has a coach

21:19

now, nowadays, in the seniors division.

21:22

Silence.

21:26

Silence.

21:30

if I were at UIC. One

21:33

of my, one of our friends, Mike Natto,

21:35

shout out to Mike, he Lost is

21:37

winning into day two, but he played he played

21:39

the deck. Our list is a little bit different

21:41

than the stock list that have been going around,

21:43

and the list that made top 8 and

21:45

top 16. Notably

21:48

we dropped the tracking shoes. The shoes are good,

21:50

but Like, we play Gears and Research

21:53

over those pretty much which

21:55

feel overall a little bit better

21:57

to me. And we, we've been

21:59

playing a little bit more boss as

22:01

well. I think the, the two

22:04

lists that made Top 8 had

22:06

some, I think they each had one boss,

22:08

one countercatcher. And then

22:10

one of them also had an Iron Bundle, which

22:12

I think is interesting. It's not something

22:14

I've played many games with, but it seems okay.

22:17

We've been playing just two, or sometimes

22:19

even three, Real Boss, plus

22:21

the Prime Catcher, of course. That deck definitely

22:24

plays more like your

22:26

version of Ancient Box Cam, where

22:28

it's just trying to two shot stuff. And then,

22:31

obviously, we use Roaring Moon EX

22:33

for the for the big KOs. So,

22:36

the And a lot

22:38

of the same conclusions and a lot of the same matchup spreads,

22:41

I think, as Ancient Box, where Charizard,

22:43

I just felt like the matchup was pretty good. Like,

22:46

pretty close, and then if the Charizard player is really good,

22:48

it's probably unfavored. And then

22:51

the Iron Hands matchup also wasn't

22:54

that great. So, like, I've been thinking about maybe

22:56

playing a Brute Bonnet. That might help

22:58

the Iron Hands matchup, but I haven't tested

23:00

it out enough. And then the

23:02

Charizard list that did well, Tord and

23:04

William, both of them did not play Mist

23:06

Energy, which is a big deal for

23:09

our, for that deck, for the Moonsparce deck.

23:12

More easily you can just kind of like KO two little

23:14

things in the early game and then go gouging, gouging

23:17

to win the game. So if that

23:19

picks up, then I do feel like

23:21

Moonsparce is pretty good. Better positioned.

23:26

The Turros are annoying, but like you can,

23:28

if, if you know they play Turros and they don't play

23:30

Miss Energy then you can just go

23:32

that route of the big, the big moons rather

23:34

than even attempting to to two shot them.

23:37

But I was really happy to see the deck do well, like

23:39

it lost on stream on the winnin

23:41

end to probably its hardest matchup in hand,

23:44

and then the the other one made top eight. It

23:46

did lose to Pidgeot control which I

23:48

think one of the other Big

23:50

selling points about the deck is that it's control

23:52

matchup and stall matchup are really really good

23:55

Even if you don't play the penny, which I

23:57

don't know if those lists played penny or

23:59

not But like even without the penny you

24:02

can just go three

24:05

Dunsparce,

24:06

PTCG

24:08

big moon As your board, and then they can't

24:10

ever trap the ninja, it's impossible, if they gust the

24:12

Dunsparce, you, you know, the Dunsparce,

24:14

put it back in, grab it back out again

24:16

you have the answer to Mimikyu, blah, blah, blah the

24:19

way that I assume the top

24:22

eight Match went is Alessandro

24:24

played the Noivern plus Mist Energy,

24:26

which if they're able to get that up, it's it's

24:29

You can't beat it It

24:31

seems like it'd be pretty hard to get that set

24:34

up because like you have

24:36

to set up the Pidgeot Really

24:38

to in order to get that out and then you can kind

24:40

of just chill and wait for like a Primecatcher

24:42

boss turn I

24:46

don't know. Obviously it wasn't streamed. I don't know exactly

24:48

what happened. But like Shouldn't, it

24:50

should, it still, it still should be winnable

24:53

unless they draw like insanely hot and don't

24:55

need to set up the Pidgeot to get the,

24:57

to get the Noibern out.

24:59

doesn't work into Aerie and Luxray,

25:01

right?

25:03

Yeah, I guess that's true.

25:05

I could also thread Knockout with a Radiant Zard

25:07

at any point too, right, which is also like another

25:09

thing you have to have in your mind, so it's just like

25:11

a lot going on I think on both sides.

25:13

Yeah, right. That's

25:16

think another factor is if they get their, like, Rotom,

25:18

Bravery, Charm, Myst Energy down, you can, it's

25:20

like really hard to remove that, right, or Hero's Cape yeah.

25:24

So, but

25:27

yeah, happy to, happy to see it, the

25:29

deck do well. I think it's pretty strong. I do think

25:31

both of those decks will see

25:34

an increase in play going into Orlando.

25:36

What do you guys think about that?

25:40

I definitely agree. The

25:43

Dunsparce I think is just,

25:45

sees more play.

25:48

it's a fun deck, it did well, and

25:51

now we have like a, you know, a

25:54

stock list that everyone can go off of, right? Might

25:57

just be like the new ish

25:59

form of Roaring Moon that kind of popped up at

26:02

the end of last format, right? And just be a very popular

26:04

kind of deck that a good percentage

26:06

of people will play. Maybe hover around 10

26:09

13 percent depending on what

26:12

it is.

26:15

And I agree kind of like

26:17

what you were saying with the Ancient Box. It's not, like

26:20

the Roaring Moon Dunsparce is not the

26:22

hardest deck to play, but there are a lot of

26:24

like small intricacies to optimize.

26:28

Order, order of using your Dunsparce

26:30

versus other cards, how

26:32

to set up your board, like

26:35

benching a Moony

26:38

X preemptively is almost always a throw,

26:40

like things like that, and like saving.

26:44

Like, when are you

26:46

using your dark patches versus when are you sodding

26:49

I don't know, there's just like a lot of little things that I've picked up

26:51

as I've played the deck that make it

26:54

even, honestly, even more fun because

26:57

of those little things but, yeah,

26:59

it's like, it's not hard to do, to

27:02

play it, like, decently well, but I think it's quite

27:04

hard to to play it at a super high level. Alright.

27:07

thing, I guess, about that deck is I

27:09

was playing it for the,

27:12

I was playing a few games on live, and I

27:14

hit an Ancient Box, and

27:17

I evolved the active Dunsparce

27:19

into a Fluttermane. And then, yeah,

27:21

and I got my thing trapped for like a few

27:23

turns. That's like a funny interaction.

27:26

It's also something I guess you could consider, like,

27:28

Pidgeot or something like that if you really

27:30

cared that much for some reason. Interesting

27:32

way to lock the Dunsparce.

27:35

That is funny.

27:36

Liam, any other stuff that you guys saw

27:38

from, like, watching the stream

27:40

that you wanna talk about? I feel like I mean, obviously,

27:43

a critical tournament in Forming Orlando, and I know we

27:45

wanna start talking about what people are thinking,

27:47

but I don't know if you

27:49

had any other big conclusions from EYC.

27:53

I guess I'm just curious, like, Cam, I

27:55

think there's, there's always like a little bit of a difference

27:58

between when we look

28:00

at results and watch the stream versus like,

28:02

what did you feel when you

28:05

were there? Like, what

28:07

did you feel in terms of like, what were

28:09

the good players playing? What did you think

28:11

was like going? I don't know. Does that

28:13

kind of make

28:14

yeah, so I think Like,

28:17

you know, if you look at all, there's, there's three

28:19

decks because it was, it was that

28:21

we're doing well and maybe didn't end up in

28:23

the top eight because you

28:25

have to have a perfect run essentially at

28:28

this point now to get into top eight. And

28:31

there were like three decks that kind of missed,

28:33

but we're there in the top eight. Top

28:35

tables that were very scary one

28:37

being Controlzard, which is what Luka

28:40

Zing and Cal Connor were playing, slightly

28:42

different lists. That

28:44

is a very good deck I think

28:46

Cal believes that his version loses

28:49

to Tina because I think he doesn't have

28:51

a lot of techs for Tina which may

28:53

be the case but Other

28:55

than Tina, like, I was watching him dismantle

28:58

people, and it looked like Lucas was too and

29:00

they just kind of ended up maybe

29:03

hitting some rough matchups or just not being able to

29:05

close, but still ended up in, like the

29:07

top tables the entire time, just not in top

29:09

eight The other

29:11

one was Gardevoir, which

29:14

there was three in top 32. One

29:17

just bubbled out at ninth. It,

29:20

I played it a little bit. That's

29:22

also a very strong deck as

29:25

well

29:25

It's

29:31

once again, a base list to go off of for Garde

29:33

and it's proven itself with three

29:35

really good players getting top 32

29:38

with it and then. I

29:40

guess the last thing would be the,

29:44

like, I don't, like,

29:48

I think Control will never

29:50

be the most popular deck, it

29:52

probably will never win an event but,

29:56

like, that

29:59

deck is so strong, there's, like, the Pidgeot

30:01

controls were kind of, you know, Going crazy

30:03

at the top, and I know they ran into their issues,

30:05

and ran into Zatina, and Slash ran into Tord,

30:08

and that'll probably happen on some level at

30:10

every tournament for the most part, but, like,

30:12

if you, if you know how to play that deck well, that's

30:15

another very scary deck, so three,

30:17

two of them being kinda control ish Pidgeots with

30:19

The controls are, you know,

30:22

Pidgeot controls just them being able

30:24

to grab whatever they want and they know

30:26

how to, and it's just two

30:28

different ways to dismantle people. And so those

30:30

three decks are very scary for a lot

30:32

of different decks.

30:34

Liam, you looked like you were going to say something.

30:37

Yeah, I hate Pidgeot, bro.

30:39

I don't, like, I

30:41

don't, I don't know why, man. Every time I play that deck,

30:44

it just, it just implodes. And

30:46

it's, it's not, it's not, like, bad. Like, every time

30:48

you set up, every time you get the Pidgeot out,

30:51

and, like, your opponent hasn't made substantial

30:53

progress yet, you just, like, you instantly win.

30:55

Because you have, you have everything you need for every matchup.

30:57

But, like, it just, like,

31:00

it's just You get Prime Catcher KO'd

31:02

to, like, maximum disrupt your setup turn to

31:04

literally every single game. It's like,

31:08

I don't know how people are

31:12

doing well with the deck, and how

31:14

well, why people think the deck is so strong. Like,

31:16

it has everything it needs, of course, but it

31:18

doesn't, it's not super consistent,

31:21

in my experience. Yeah,

31:26

but like, yeah, I mean, especially coming out of this tournament,

31:29

people are like, oh my gosh, if you know how to play

31:31

the deck, it's like the best deck in format, but

31:34

it seems, it seems meh.

31:37

I like, the win rate, the win

31:39

rate's like mediocre when I play it. It's like, you

31:41

know, 50 50, maybe 55 45,

31:45

until like general meta. I

31:47

don't, yeah,

31:49

Yeah, but that's the thing with Control and it's felt like

31:51

that, especially with Eerie, like it's

31:53

format is, I don't know if it's, it's very

31:55

different. It's way more interesting than the last format.

31:58

You just Eerie and then your opponent, like, didn't

32:00

Iono, or because

32:03

they just, you know, made a mistake, like,

32:05

you just get crushed. Like, you make a subtle misplay,

32:08

or you just happen to have the wrong cards in

32:10

hand, and the Eerie you, both on

32:12

Zard and any deck playing Eerie, like,

32:14

really hurts. And

32:18

so any deck that can play Eerie,

32:19

If I like,

32:20

one of them, it's, like, pretty strong and just

32:22

something you can play around, but it's just

32:24

something you always have to be aware of as

32:26

the opponent.

32:29

I ever got to a spot where I'm taking the

32:31

turn to play Aerie, I like, I basically

32:33

always win. Like, you basically always

32:36

win if you get to go Pidgey it for Airy, and

32:38

then do your thing, like, it's basically

32:40

unlosable in that position, but, I

32:43

mean, I just always, I

32:45

get run off the board, dude, I get like, Prime

32:47

Catcher KO, Iron Hands, 3 prizes, turn

32:49

2, and like, you know, I'm

32:51

gonna spend the next turn Rotoming, and like, I'm

32:54

just gonna take so many prizes so fast, and,

32:57

and it's, and then they're like, destroying

32:59

your setup while they do it, it's really I

33:03

find I get steamrolled, like, way too many games.

33:05

Alright, do we want to talk about, do we just want to keep

33:07

going through some of the other decks? Do we

33:09

want to think

33:11

about more Orlando more holistically?

33:14

What do you think?

33:16

I guess on Dex specifically, we

33:18

kind of touched on Zard, briefly on the Control

33:21

Zard

33:21

I was gonna say, Liam already tweeted he's playing

33:23

towards 60, we should talk about Zard.

33:26

Yeah. I locked it in before

33:28

I basically played any games. Tord is,

33:30

you know, trusting the goat. Trusting the goat!

33:32

I completely meant everything I said in that tweet.

33:35

But I've played some games with it now. He

33:37

truly is the GOAT. The list is amazing.

33:40

Yeah, it's just

33:43

better than every other Zard list I've played. I

33:45

haven't put a lot of games in with the Control

33:47

variant, but I also haven't felt

33:49

like I needed a Heroescape or

33:52

Devo or Aerie or Vigileki

33:54

at all in my games. The,

33:57

you know, turn 2 Zard.

33:59

Primecatcher. Like,

34:01

it just does its thing! It's the BDIF!

34:03

It's so good! And,

34:05

you know, Torr made it uber consistent.

34:08

The Toro stuff wins the

34:10

mirror along with the Bibarel. It's,

34:13

yeah, I mean, the deck is

34:16

so good. And, like, you

34:18

know super consistent, has

34:21

everything. It's, yeah, so

34:23

good.

34:23

So I think the big question on everybody's

34:25

mind when you first look at Tord's list is

34:27

the team Yelch here. So you got any, got

34:30

any insight into the

34:31

it's so you don't lose to Miss Fortune Sister's

34:33

Eerie, so they can't rip the Pow Pad, you can

34:35

use Yautja, right?

34:36

I don't get it, bro. It, like, yes,

34:40

yes, it gets you more resources versus,

34:42

like, Snorlax and stuff, right? But

34:46

Those don't even do anything. Like, they

34:49

don't do anything. The Mimikyu is still

34:51

super oppressive. He's not playing the Lost City,

34:54

so they can just shove it, basically, freely.

34:56

He has the 50 damage Charmeleon, only

34:58

one Lost Vacuum, and once it's gone, the

35:01

Mimikyu is like, basically immortal. Like,

35:04

maybe there's some idea to Turo

35:07

five times into that. But, I mean,

35:09

it just, it does not look good. You still

35:12

get slaughtered by Pidgeot.

35:14

They shove the Luxray

35:16

Hero Cape after they get rid of the VAC, or whatever,

35:19

and like, basically just delete your entire

35:21

deck. You never break any,

35:23

like, you have one VAC, the VAC gets stretched

35:26

by Sisters, Aerie and then you

35:28

never get through anything that has a bravery charm ever,

35:30

no matter how many switches you have, you just don't have the damage

35:32

output. There's maybe some idea

35:35

of going into a Heat Tackle Charmander

35:38

a few times with the Turos, and then giving

35:41

up a prize to bump the damage, but The,

35:44

I mean, the real issue is just the Mimikyu.

35:46

I don't see how he gets through the Mimikyu without

35:48

going for this, like, Radtar's Shred, but

35:50

that, of course, has its own issues

35:53

when your energy gets stretched, and, like, it's

35:56

just not very good, I think. Like,

35:58

he did tie.

35:59

like you're not playing towards 60, and

36:01

you're dropping the Yelchier.

36:04

I think people, most people

36:05

trust in the GOAT. I, like, if I don't understand

36:08

it, it doesn't matter. The whole point is trust in the GOAT. Like,

36:10

trust in the GOAT. It

36:12

doesn't

36:13

just to not lose to Eerie, Miss

36:15

Fortune Sister's, there's other things you have to worry about, but

36:17

it's just like what you said, right? Like, he

36:19

has Prime Catcher, he can be aggressive, he,

36:21

oh, you put down one Pidgey, I knocked it out

36:23

and if something goes wrong, okay, like, I'm on you

36:26

immediately, and I think, I'm pretty sure he tied

36:28

against

36:28

Yes, yes, and I think, I

36:31

think it's maybe like a viable strat to play

36:33

for the tie, which is like, you're able

36:35

to put on enough pressure where they're not able to

36:37

be super proactive towards

36:39

like the deck out for long enough

36:41

that you can like, you can stretch it to a tie

36:44

somehow but yeah, I,

36:46

I, I truly don't, don't get it. Yeah.

36:50

Still playing it, though, of course. Yes.

37:06

Maybe not 100 percent standard, but seems really

37:08

Standard. It's probably

37:10

standard at this point. That's a really good card. Um,

37:13

Turo is fairly standard

37:16

at this point. Like, it was something

37:18

that, like, I think a lot of people were like, Oh,

37:20

people aren't going to play Turo, they're going to play Eerie. All

37:23

the good lists ended up having Churro and Eerie

37:25

so I think that is something that you just at

37:27

least one, if not two,

37:29

if you're playing, if they're just completely copying

37:31

towards lists but Myst is actually

37:33

something that, like, surprisingly

37:36

wasn't a hard include, though it looked

37:38

like some of the online tournaments, it was

37:41

looking like a hard include leading up

37:43

to.

37:45

Yeah I also think it's interesting that a lot of

37:47

people are playing a Roxanne now, pretty much, both,

37:49

both Tord and William and I had seen that

37:52

starting to creep up, which, it just is

37:54

a little odd to me,

37:56

like, what makes Roxanne so much better in this

37:58

format compared to last format,

38:00

like, or should we have just been

38:02

playing Roxanne before? Right.

38:12

playing any Roxanne, and every other Zard

38:14

that was not from NA was

38:16

all playing Roxanne.

38:20

Roxanne does seem like, you know, not an American

38:22

card. But,

38:24

It kind of threw me off when I played as someone

38:26

who rocks and me because I I like

38:28

went down to zero in deck I palpatted two

38:31

cards. I was like, oh, yeah, I own a me. It doesn't

38:33

matter. I'm a rocks and me I was like, oh I can actually miss

38:35

now like this is random I

38:37

didn't miss but I was like, oh that is kind of

38:40

troublesome specifically for my deck not

38:42

that I think that's what they're teching it for but

38:44

I think it's also like The Zard

38:46

wants to see a lot of cards, and

38:48

if you're kind of in this even trade in

38:51

the mid game, and then you, I don't know, you're both

38:53

of you down to two, three, like, yes, you have Pidgeot, but

38:55

sometimes you just, like, Need to see like

38:58

more than one card right to close

39:00

out the game So if you can Roxanne them to

39:02

two and then get yourself to six and you're like, oh There's

39:04

that one piece I was looking for. Let me pitch you out for

39:06

the other one

39:09

That card advantage comes up a lot in

39:11

the mirror because the Pidgeot gets deleted

39:14

at 4. With Max Belt a

39:16

lot. So, yeah, you lose the Pidgeot

39:18

at 4. And then the

39:21

Roxanne's really big. Hold that

39:23

for

39:31

Why not a different stall or control

39:33

deck, Liam? Like, there were a couple

39:35

of different brands that, like, there was just like,

39:37

Bloklax, right? That

39:40

top 8ed

39:40

think that did super well. No

39:42

Wolters.

39:44

yeah, no, he was just playing Heavy Lax in

39:46

Pidgeot. I mess around with both builds.

39:49

I think I would have played Heavy

39:51

Lax if I was playing Pidgeot

39:53

to EUIC, because

39:56

starting Snarlax is, like, a really

39:58

good way to slow decks down and maybe

40:00

play without the Pidgeot a little bit, but

40:04

I don't know, dude, I've been

40:06

saying for a while, I like, I

40:08

don't know how these decks don't just get blown

40:10

off the board by like a quick Prime

40:12

Catcher. I've been having like, you

40:14

know, some

40:17

major issues with it. And like, I

40:20

think we felt this a little bit at the end of last

40:23

season as well, against Roaring Moon

40:25

with like heavy catchers and stuff like that.

40:27

Where like, When there's a lot of

40:29

pressure to get Pidgey Rotom down turn

40:31

2 into turn 2 Pidgeot,

40:34

and you have to do this, like, basically every game

40:36

or you lose, like, the

40:39

matchups tend to suck, because it's really hard

40:41

for the deck to do that. It's not really built for that. You're playing

40:43

so many you don't have a way to search them

40:45

both out with, like,

40:48

you don't even have, like, Arvin VIP or something

40:50

anymore. That never really caught on in the list,

40:52

but the deck doesn't have a lot of search. It contains

40:54

so many, like options, right,

40:56

for the late game. It's basically just 4 Ness, 4 Arvin,

40:59

and trying to find 2 basics on turn

41:02

1 is not always easy. And

41:04

you have to find, like, Rare Candy Pidgeot turn 2,

41:07

which, again, is not super easy. The deck

41:09

is only playing 2 Candy, 2

41:11

Pidgeot, 4 Arvin. It's not a ton of outs.

41:14

I recognize they gave us a bunch of really

41:16

good control cards in this set, but I

41:18

mean, when I think back to when Guzma

41:21

was a big part of the format, there were, like, no

41:23

Staldex at all, because, like, Guzma.

41:26

It's a magical cure for Staldex. Like, people

41:28

were running, every deck ran tons of Guzmas already

41:31

because they needed Gust effects. And you're

41:33

like, oh, it's also an out to all attempts

41:35

to stall you out. Guaranteed

41:38

maybe and maybe the control did well

41:40

as well like the the thought of there

41:43

is the idea that yes Control is typically

41:45

not as good in an open format Because

41:48

they don't know what to expect, but maybe

41:51

this time was like, Oh, it's going to be a lot

41:53

of Zard and ended up being 25 percent Zard,

41:55

which was, I did not expect it to be that

41:57

high. I did expect it to be the most played deck.

42:00

And then maybe you're just preying on people, not having

42:02

a standard list. They're not playing Prime

42:04

Catcher. They're not playing

42:07

a great list or they're not playing the matchup

42:09

well, because it's so early on, maybe

42:12

that they also preyed on that for control.

42:14

Oh, you know, the one other question I want to ask you guys about EUIC

42:17

is I was asking Liam when we were talking

42:19

about getting ready for the pod today, what's going to be

42:21

more played? Tord 60 or Isaiah 60?

42:24

And we were both like Isaiah 60,

42:26

because, I don't know. Isaiah, but, like,

42:29

how big how big

42:30

people love text. People

42:33

love text. They don't love to see Tord, like,

42:35

massively improving the Charizard engine,

42:38

and you know, like, making the deck just overall

42:40

much better. They love the idea of

42:42

taking four cards out of their deck to auto

42:45

Ched Pal. Like, it's,

42:48

like,

42:48

Bayonet, and Bayonet item lock is just like,

42:50

cool, right, Leo thought, and it's

42:52

cooler than,

42:55

They saw Isaiah Poltergeist,

42:57

Cream of Scully, for

42:59

like 400 damage and they're like, that's

43:01

it baby, I'm playing that.

43:04

it's much cooler than Team Yale's Cheer, right?

43:06

Like, you're just like, oh, what am I having Team Yale's Cheer

43:09

for? But then you're like, oh, this Bayonet's very cool. And

43:13

the Bayonet, the other Bayonet, not the

43:15

EX one, makes it so it's actually pretty

43:17

easy. Maybe it gets punished now

43:19

because people put Jirachi back into their lists,

43:22

but it makes it so you can get to 10 pretty quickly. A

43:24

lot quicker than people expect,

43:26

and you kind of can blow them up with sableye

43:28

all of a sudden on turn two.

43:30

people love the weird stuff more than, like,

43:32

the good stuff, like, yeah,

43:35

but,

43:39

like, as you said, you

43:41

said Charizard you expected to be big and it was bigger

43:43

than you expected. Is Charizard

43:46

gonna be equally big because Tord just

43:48

did Tord stuff, or is Tina gonna be, like,

43:51

a much bigger part of the meta? Like, what do you guys

43:53

think it looks like coming out of

43:54

Yeah. I think I might be, like, the

43:56

only person, except for maybe Cam, we'll

43:59

see if he gets on the train. But, I might be, like,

44:01

the only person at Orlando running towards

44:03

exact 60. Because, no,

44:07

I had to tweet earlier, like, even

44:10

though people are going to netdeck, of course they will. Like,

44:13

they're, they're gonna make changes

44:15

too. They're gonna netdeck it, and then they're

44:17

gonna, they're gonna make the cards worse. Like,

44:20

they're gonna make the deck worse. They

44:22

love to make it worse. Yeah, right. I

44:26

pray they do, man. I pray they do. Like,

44:29

When, when Liam halfway through the tournament finds out what

44:31

that EL Cheer's for, he's gonna be like, they're gonna rue

44:34

the day they cut that EL Cheer.

44:37

I mean, it's genuinely the craziest

44:39

thing to me. Like, the greatest

44:41

player of all time has given you access

44:43

to his list, what he thinks is

44:45

best going into the EUIC meta, and

44:48

you want to play something different? Why?

44:51

Why?

44:52

Dude, because we got information! We have

44:54

information now! The question

44:56

is, would Tord change any cards going into

44:58

Orlando?

44:59

toward Mike, you're not making

45:01

the same changes. Like, you're not. And

45:04

like,

45:08

you have access to a list made

45:10

by the greatest player of all time, and you feel like you should

45:12

just play it. Just play it! So

45:15

easy! So easy!

45:17

While we're talking about what's going to be popular

45:19

in Orlando and whatnot I think

45:21

this is a good time maybe to mention what

45:24

decks what was like conversions

45:26

for, from day one to day two, because I think

45:28

it's a little interesting. So Charizard

45:30

was 20, almost 23 percent

45:32

day one but just under 19

45:34

percent day two. So You know, still the most

45:36

popular, but little, not, not the

45:38

best conversion. Chien Pao, while

45:40

it did not make the top 8, nor

45:43

the top 16, it was littered

45:45

in top 32 and 64, and

45:47

it had a solid conversion rate. 12.

45:50

7 percent day 1, up to

45:52

14. 5 percent day 2. Lugia

45:54

basically converted equally. Arceus,

45:57

Giratina converted poorly, Iron Hands

46:00

converted well up from 6.

46:03

7 to 9% and then Lost Zone, Giratina

46:06

also converted well from about the same 6,

46:08

a little over 6%, to about 9%.

46:11

We don't really have the data on the rest of

46:13

the decks, but I think that's interesting.

46:16

At least. So, Tina converted

46:18

pretty well. One of the, one of the best conversion

46:21

rates was Tina. And

46:23

maybe that's, maybe that's there's always the player

46:26

aspect, right? The whole Bradner group played

46:28

Tina, the Isul group played Tina, we

46:30

don't know too many other people that played Tina

46:33

and so obviously those players

46:35

are going to do well almost regardless of what they're

46:37

playing, so since they decided to play Tina, Tina's

46:41

numbers were strong. If

46:43

you are looking for a more standard Tina list, Azul's

46:46

list, I think he got like 13th or 14th, is

46:49

much more straightforward.

46:50

Oh,

46:51

I would still, I would still think that that'll be

46:53

the more predominant way to play Tina. I think

46:55

the, I think the Banette won't be super popular,

46:57

to be honest.

46:59

me neither. Definitely more popular than Portsmouth. But

47:01

really quick. Yeah, you

47:04

go, you go.

47:05

so I think something to note and it's,

47:08

it's becoming even, it's what we talked about.

47:10

Like I think what people

47:13

tend to focus on is the top eight. These

47:15

tournaments are so big and what we talked

47:17

about, like these people who were in

47:19

the running to be in top eight and

47:21

then they just lose one or two at the

47:23

end and they just fall because

47:25

maybe it's a bad matchup. Maybe they just break,

47:27

maybe it's whatever. Michael

47:30

Bergerac. I think he was heading

47:32

into the last two

47:33

You go.

47:34

he's a really good player. I talk to

47:36

him when I can at tournaments. He

47:39

wins his last two. I think he's in

47:41

the bubble, on the bubble for top eight.

47:43

He loses his last two. He

47:46

drops to top 128. Yeah, he drops to 89th.

47:49

Like, that is where we are at

47:51

right now. And so, even

47:54

though like Chen, Pao, Lugia, like some

47:56

decks may not have Gone

47:59

all the way. I think

48:01

now more than ever is like a good time to look

48:03

at these decks that finish like Yeah,

48:05

they got to top 64. They got to top

48:08

32. They got to, maybe they bubbled

48:10

out of one of these brackets, like these

48:12

lists are all still good.

48:15

I'm not hearing that. I'm not hearing

48:17

that. I'm not hearing that. Like, nah,

48:20

nah. The

48:21

I mean,

48:22

list, the best players, they won their last two.

48:25

I can go find a list right now that won its last two.

48:27

Like, I'm not

48:29

it's a good point. Like, there's two Chiampows that

48:31

lost, went into the top 8, and then didn't even make

48:33

top 32, or didn't even

48:35

And then Lugia, that lost it's, it's to,

48:37

I'm pretty, it lost to the control it

48:39

lost to Burt. I, and I feel like

48:41

Wow.

48:42

should be favored in that matchup, and

48:45

then it loses to Burt, and it

48:48

drops down to top 32, or maybe even

48:50

out of top 32, it's like Lugia had

48:52

a chance to be in top 8, that's the main thing that

48:54

I'm trying to say, like, just because Lugia was

48:56

in the top 8 wasn't in the top 16, like, it's

48:59

still

48:59

I can go find you 10 4

49:02

4 1s that if they won their last two, they

49:04

could have gone all the way. But,

49:06

no, I don't care.

49:08

Liam's like, the best player in history

49:10

played this other deck and got better results, so

49:13

it must be a better deck.

49:14

Yes!

49:15

Oh, he didn't, the opponent in

49:17

top four just didn't happen to accidentally

49:20

not play a little faster and

49:23

then Tord, you know, kind of threw by double

49:25

canding there at the end and he kind

49:27

of got bailed out by, oh, time being called

49:29

right when D. But no, that didn't

49:31

Yep.

49:31

all. So, you know, it's, you know, not

49:34

to take anything away from Tord, but there

49:36

that's, that's just faith in the heart of the cards,

49:38

100%.

49:39

Yep. Yeah, the plot armor. Bradner

49:41

goes draw pass.

49:42

Yeah,

49:44

Bradner goes draw pass for the first two

49:46

or three turns of finals.

49:49

Tord, man, props

49:51

to Tord for his magnificent play.

49:53

He

49:54

I mean, he plays well. We're not saying

49:56

he's not playing well. But you also gotta get a little

49:59

lucky too.

49:59

Mm hmm.

50:00

Isaiah sets up the Iron

50:02

Leafs, and like, this is what I'm talking about, man,

50:04

like, it's not the hardest play in the world

50:06

to see, that you have the grass energy, the

50:09

jet, to prepare for Iron Leaf's topdeck

50:11

energy, right? There is

50:13

a large subsection of players who would look at

50:15

that hand, and just be like,

50:17

wow, I bricked, I lose. When

50:19

like, there's also a large subsection

50:22

of players who would then lose to Isaiah

50:24

doing that because he topdecks energy,

50:26

right? And they would have shoved the Charizard,

50:28

and not did what Tord did, which is hit with the Pidgeot. And

50:31

then they shoved the Charizard, Isaiah picks up two prizes and

50:33

wins the game.

50:35

That's true. Yeah,

50:35

can make so much out of these, like,

50:38

terrible hands. And, you

50:41

know, both players played super well. The other thing

50:43

Tord did really well, that I want to at

50:45

least look into, because I thought Tina was super favorite

50:47

in the matchup, but you know, apparently Tord

50:49

had, like, a very positive record against Isaiah. He

50:52

probably did very well against Tina,

50:55

in general, over the course of the event, is, like,

50:57

he led with the Heat Tackle Charmander

51:00

I

51:01

yeah, it's pretty cool. It's definitely something you can

51:03

get away with. It doesn't

51:05

I know the math ended up mattering a

51:07

lot in

51:07

Yeah well, like, he had the

51:09

opportunity that turn to go Candies Aard

51:12

but he didn't want to give up the two prizes, right? So,

51:16

yeah,

51:16

I know it was a good play

51:17

that's very interesting. I

51:24

been like some Consideration of what

51:27

Charmanders do you play and like for Heat Tackle

51:29

seems correct Hmm

51:34

need to test it more, that Guardi matchup. It's

51:37

maybe ever so slightly Guardi favored,

51:39

it ended up maybe not being. If you don't play

51:41

Heat Tackle, like, that Mimikyu

51:44

kind of can easily run through you, especially

51:46

if you're not running the mist. Like, that Heat

51:48

Tackle is actually really important.

51:51

That's funny. There's a lot more

51:53

we could talk about for sure. We didn't even talk about

51:55

Hands, which overperformed. There's

51:57

other decks in here, but we are hitting

52:00

an hour. So I don't know. You guys

52:02

are going to Orlando. Good luck in Orlando.

52:05

We will have some reports next week. And then,

52:07

and then I think it chills out for a little bit and we

52:09

can really digest the results

52:11

from these two tournaments.

52:15

I would really like to have another, another week before

52:18

Orlando.

52:19

Yeah. It's a really quick turnaround.

52:21

Yeah, I, I was telling my dad, I didn't,

52:24

I didn't make all my decks post rotation. I hadn't,

52:26

like, unsleeved everything yet. So

52:28

I have to spend, like, the first two days

52:30

this week. I'd spend probably today as well just

52:34

building decks. Won't have a lot of time

52:36

to practice.

52:36

got three people over there waiting for me to finish

52:39

so I can go back to testing because

52:41

that's actually what we're doing. The turnaround's quick,

52:43

you gotta be honest.

52:44

Yeah.

52:45

yeah. Nice.

52:47

How brutal was the flight back for you

52:49

Cam, where you, like, jet lagged out of your mind?

52:51

No, I, always on the way back

52:53

I think it's a bit easier because you just stay

52:56

up. I left at like 4 p. m.,

52:58

got back at 6 p. m. So I just

53:00

stayed up, watched movies, was really tired and then

53:02

just fell asleep at a normal time. So I'm, I'm

53:05

doing alright.

53:06

West is best. It's the universal truth

53:08

of air travel. All right, good

53:10

stuff, guys. The John Pauls are our outro. We

53:12

will be back next week with

53:15

the finalists from Orlando Regionals. It's

53:17

gonna be amazing.