0:00

I think a full toad scroll deck actually has

0:02

decent matchups across the board. Besides Valiant,

0:05

obviously it gets completely rolled

0:07

by Valiant, but. I

0:10

think it's actually quite strong against other stuff.

0:13

I had a moment today where I was like, the

0:16

problem with breaking a new

0:18

set at LAIC is,

0:20

uh, like something like Toad

0:23

Scroll is just ready

0:25

for judges to just make the wrong calls

0:28

repeatedly. and

0:33

like LAIC is where you go to have a judge

0:35

be like, Nope. And,

0:38

and the problem is like, I

0:41

feel like the players might not have enough confidence

0:43

that the judge is just wrong

0:47

Hmm.

0:47

and judges are just gonna be wrong over

0:49

and over and over again. You know,

0:52

I don't know. I have enough faith. I.

0:54

Yeah,

0:56

I think, I think the, with the amount of attention the card's

0:58

been getting, and also I think that

1:01

honestly the card reads, like its

1:03

interactions are pretty intuitive if

1:05

you just read the text on the cards. Um,

1:08

it's just, you know, some people, sometimes

1:11

it's easy to take shortcuts and forget it's

1:13

interactions, but I don't, I think its,

1:15

interactions are actually pretty clear. There isn't really

1:18

anything too confusing.

1:20

I'd agree with the, like, something like the poke stop

1:22

thing is like a little bit weird, and

1:26

I mean, primarily

1:27

mean, if you read the card, it's obvious that

1:29

it doesn't, that it stops

1:30

but like the standard practice for pokey stop

1:32

is like you never put the card in.

1:36

Right, right, right. Yeah. It's more the

1:38

issue with Poka

1:39

Yeah. Well, and, and,

1:41

I think.

1:42

yeah. Well, and just like, I mean, your assumption

1:44

that you're like, just read the card. I

1:46

mean, it's an ic, like the card could be

1:48

in many different languages. You have a

1:50

Portuguese judge and like you're

1:53

like, read the cards. It's like, well like that. So that's not

1:55

gonna happen. They're not gonna read the card. So what are you gonna do like,

1:58

Although I'm confident, you know, obviously it's in a

2:00

different language, but I'm confident the text on

2:03

every, every variant of the poe

2:05

stop card is discard all of them and then return

2:07

items to hand.

2:09

yeah,

2:09

And I, I think if you read that compared to

2:11

the toad scroll, like the interaction is pretty

2:14

obvious. Unlike some other like

2:16

slightly less obvious interactions that

2:20

I, I feel like stuff that might get tripped up

2:22

a bit more is stuff like, you know, I

2:24

stra into my Iron Valley and does

2:26

that place damage counters and like obvi, we know

2:28

it, we know it does, it doesn't say before you attack on

2:30

the ability, but that I, it

2:32

feels like an area that has a little bit more ambiguity.

2:37

It's, it's a little bit more, um,

2:39

you know, a little bit more non-standard than like,

2:41

PO stop says, discard the cards, then put them into

2:43

hand and says you can't put them.

2:47

just going by. The text isn't.

2:50

I love that. I love that you guys are confident

2:52

that the judges will get things right at L-A-S-C-I,

2:56

you know, uh, it's important the players have confidence.

2:58

Alright?

2:59

I, I, I mean, you

3:02

gotta bring the best that you can

3:09

welcome to the Trash Launch. It's the

3:11

only podcast about the Pokegear trading

3:13

card game. There are no others. Attendance

3:16

is 133% cadence.

3:18

Here. Liam's here. Mike's here. I'm

3:20

here. We're sponsored by Dragon Shield.

3:23

Nobody's left us a review in a while. You

3:25

should leave a five star review. We know how

3:27

many people listen to the podcast because there

3:29

are things that generate data about this kind of

3:31

thing, and you haven't all left reviews yet. If

3:33

you're a person who hasn't left a review, you should ask yourself,

3:36

what is wrong with me? That I'm like the last person to

3:38

have not left a review. Um, Mike,

3:42

uh, uh, this is less relevant for these

3:44

two, but I thought it was worth taking a moment to

3:46

acknowledge that, um, uh,

3:48

we did not honor the occasion, but this is episode

3:50

155, apparently 155

3:53

ish.

3:54

so we missed one 50, is that what you're saying?

3:56

Uh, you know, I, I always

3:58

thought like I, I told Liam this at

4:01

one point, and like the count might be a

4:03

little off because you have to kind of increment it by

4:05

hand in the Buzzsprout system and like

4:07

a little, I haven't always, I think, been

4:10

super good about that, but I've tried to go back and clean it up

4:12

sometimes. I thought episode

4:15

like 1 51. I would like, we'd

4:17

shut down the whole pod and go home or something like that.

4:19

Like I always imagined that

4:21

that was a, a important marker when

4:23

you cross the, the 151 in a Pokegear

4:25

podcast. But, uh, 155

4:29

is a lot of episodes. Yeah.

4:31

It is,

4:32

Uh, 156 is is

4:35

52 weeks times three. That,

4:38

that's like, uh, I

4:41

think we've been going for more than three years. 'cause we took a

4:43

couple of weeks off here and there, but that's like three

4:45

solid years of podcasts that's

4:48

still going strong. Alright. I,

4:50

I think we want to talk about paradox rift decks,

4:52

but, but we had a note from, uh, last

4:55

week that we want to talk for two seconds about how

4:57

many 30 fives missed in Toronto versus Peoria.

5:01

I have not, uh, explored

5:04

this at all. I've actually been, um,

5:06

looking at kind

5:09

of doing something similar to what I did with

5:11

Worlds. But, um, looking at the

5:14

obsidian flames slash 1 51 tournaments,

5:16

there was like seven ish

5:19

majors. Um, so I'm gonna kind of do

5:21

the same thing with, uh, a matchup chart,

5:23

but then I'm also going to calculate

5:26

expected win percentages based on those results.

5:29

Um, and retroactively

5:32

look back at each event and

5:35

their metas shares and

5:37

see which deck actually was the play

5:39

for each event. So that's kinda where all

5:41

of my, uh, analysis

5:44

has gone over the last week. I'm kind of setting

5:46

that up, so I didn't get to look at the 35

5:49

pointers, but. Table

5:51

it again. We'll come back to it. 'cause I think it's a, an

5:54

interesting thing to look at.

5:57

All right. Uh, another thing I wanted to get, uh,

5:59

uh, Caden and Mike's reaction to is

6:02

Um, I've been asking Liam, oh,

6:04

are you going to this League Cup? Are you going to this

6:06

league challenge for like the last two weekends? And

6:08

he's like, man, we're already

6:10

onto the next set. Ain't got time for that. Is

6:13

that, is that smart or is that crazy?

6:17

I,

6:19

I mean, I understand

6:22

I understand it. I mean, I think, I

6:25

don't know. I feel like, you know, I'm in, I'm

6:27

a university so I have not been

6:29

going to any locals 'cause it's kind

6:31

of inconvenient in a bit of a trek

6:33

you didn't go to the super busted Chicago

6:35

League Cups this past weekend,

6:39

I did not, I did not. But um.

6:43

I do think that, you know, I'm

6:45

also not planning on really necessarily

6:48

g going for my invite hard this year. Um,

6:51

and, and so I'm not too

6:53

concerned about hitting a bunch of locals. I

6:56

think if you are going for your invite, um,

6:59

know, I think it is worth going to locals so

7:01

you don't feel, find yourself having

7:04

to cram a bunch in at the end of the season. Um,

7:07

'cause that's just genuinely no fun. And this

7:09

does not mean test, you know, if it's

7:11

in a previous format. Don't like this,

7:14

doesn't mean okay, I'm gonna test a bunch for

7:16

it. Like, just run what you're comfortable with and

7:18

just see what happens. But, you know,

7:21

I, think it is worth going to,

7:23

Yeah. I, I feel like, I feel like Liam's

7:25

also, Liam, it's your call.

7:26

war. Yeah. Liam Liam's

7:29

just implying he's outta guard of war practice, so

7:31

like there's no point trying to take guard of war

7:33

because, you know, he's, he's already

7:35

like,

7:36

No, I ain't stressing about No, we bro. I

7:40

could spend all that time testing for Paradox Riff and

7:42

then trying to do well at like, you know, like an

7:44

actual tournament that like, you know, I want to do well

7:46

at beyond just my world's invite. And guess what

7:49

that goes to my world's invite too, actually

7:53

goes a

7:53

What are your, what are your local placements looking like right

7:56

now, Liam.

7:57

I have a League Cup win and a League challenge win.

8:01

Okay. And, and so like,

8:03

you know, you are obviously in good shape,

8:05

in good shape right now. You have two wins. Uh,

8:08

but you know, I

8:11

think, I think it is worthwhile to,

8:14

you know, make sure you hit those locals

8:17

when you have the chance because they

8:19

won't be every weekend.

8:21

There's always, at least, if I'm remembering

8:24

correctly, it always feels like there's more, there's

8:27

more local tournaments at the beginning of the season than there

8:29

are at the end of the season. Um,

8:31

that might just be fully wrong, but that's at

8:33

least what it feels like. As a player.

8:36

Um, so it's, you know,

8:39

I would, I think it's worth going to locals when you

8:42

get the chance.

8:44

I think you should be trying to make the best of your regionals.

8:47

I agree. Now, are you spending

8:50

now, now I'm not. Again, this is why I'm saying don't

8:52

waste testing on the local, but

8:55

I think, I think it is worth, it's still worth going

8:58

to the local, spending a few, spending a

9:00

few hours to just play

9:03

some games. See if you can get points.

9:05

I am going to leak up this Sunday

9:08

coming up because it

9:10

is very close. It's like a, you

9:12

know, I don't know, 10 minute drive from my

9:14

house and I like hanging

9:16

out with my locals. So I feel like those

9:18

are the two bigger reasons. Uh, and

9:21

I think one of my buddies, well

9:24

I know like League tomorrow night, one of my buddies that's

9:26

going to LISE, he's coming and we're

9:28

gonna test and he might be coming to the League

9:31

Cup. I feel like he shouldn't come to

9:33

the League Cup, but if he does come to the League Cup,

9:35

uh, we'll probably like

9:37

play games in between rounds. So,

9:40

of Paradox of Paradox

9:42

crazy dude.

9:47

uh, yeah.

9:50

All right. Alright. Uh, um, I mean, it

9:52

sounds like, it sounds like Liam is, uh, ready

9:54

and it sounds like Mike is ready. It sounds like people are

9:56

ready to talk about some decks they should play for

9:58

LAIC.

10:00

Yeah. It's still, it's gonna be really interesting

10:02

because, um, I

10:05

think the more that I play games

10:07

in this format, the more I'm unsure

10:10

of how

10:12

good the old decks,

10:15

or not even how good

10:17

the old decks are, like how bad

10:19

the old decks are. I, I, I'm

10:21

not really saying this right. I think the old decks

10:23

are actually a lot better than I initially thought.

10:26

I feel like the new decks are like, okay. Um,

10:29

but they're not gonna really push out much

10:32

of the old decks. Maybe I,

10:35

and I feel like the biggest thing that gets pushed out

10:37

is probably lost box. Um. I

10:41

dunno. That's kind of like my initial thought. Like I think Gardy

10:43

is weaker, but I think it's still good. I

10:46

think Mew is still very good. Chi Pal's

10:48

obviously very good. Lugia not

10:51

sure about that one. It's moon matchup

10:53

is real bad I think. Um, but

10:55

the more I play, I think the more, I think it'll

10:57

be a really interesting mix of

11:00

old and new decks and not at

11:02

all completely dominated by new stuff.

11:07

I agree with this. I mean, I think there You

11:10

know, I'm mean, out of, out of the old decks, I'm

11:12

inclined to say, you know, oh, Mew is

11:14

completely dead. But you know, this is what we

11:16

say, the release, I think of basically every

11:19

single new set and it's,

11:21

it's never dead. So I, I, I

11:24

agree. I think that, you know, Mew,

11:26

I think most decks, obviously

11:29

not really Mew as, as always, but

11:31

most decks will be adding some new paradox Rift

11:33

cards and have, find a few new

11:36

texts here or there. But I, I agree.

11:38

I think that most,

11:41

if not all of the old decks are still

11:44

at least tier one, tier two, and

11:48

I, I, I think this is still shaping up

11:50

to be a very wide

11:52

meta.

11:54

Okay. So that's our high, high level

11:56

thoughts. Liam, what are your high level thoughts?

11:59

I agree.

12:00

Yeah, is there

12:02

any deck? So like I

12:04

kind of singled out, lost box is like maybe

12:06

the biggest loser. Do you agree with that?

12:08

yeah. Yeah.

12:11

Yeah.

12:11

Um, roaring Moon I guess is

12:13

like the, the new deck. Um, and then everything

12:15

else is like, pretty much the same, uh, iron

12:17

enhancer, chi pal throw or

12:20

Lugia and tempo, throw iron hands in and then

12:22

everything else. I think like it's

12:24

In Valiant.

12:25

other deck gets way better though, as well. Like just

12:27

because of Earth and Vessel, I think. I think a

12:30

lot of EX at least, are playing that and like they just

12:32

get way better, um, even though it's

12:34

like the same market type.

12:36

And like

12:37

I think, I think Moon and Moon

12:39

and Va, moon and Valiant are the two N

12:41

decks in my mind. Um,

12:44

and I think

12:45

is valiant good? Like I'm really unsure.

12:48

It feels like right, it's just cheese,

12:50

right? it's got like 90

12:52

tens and 10 nineties

12:55

I agree with this. However, I do think it is,

12:58

at least, you know, it is something that going

13:00

into, if I were, I'm not going to LASC,

13:02

but if I were going into LASC, it is definitely

13:04

something I'm keeping in mind because, you

13:06

know, there's gonna be a, probably quite a, quite

13:08

a few people who decide to pick up valiant

13:10

and play valiant for its cheese factor. And

13:13

there will probably be many of them in day two

13:15

at LAIC because, you know, they hit the right matchups

13:18

and it has auto wins against

13:20

a lot of popular decks right now. So

13:22

I, I think it is, you know, while

13:25

I agree it is kind of a cheese deck and it's

13:27

not something that I would personally play, it

13:29

definitely has sort of a,

13:31

um, like

13:34

a, you know, it, it has an impact on

13:36

the meta.

13:39

I agree.

13:39

Yeah. It's like, it's like rapid strike,

13:42

but well, like way more

13:44

polarized which is interesting,

13:47

like, like Rapid Strike could beat Lugia.

13:49

Like it was a bad matchup, but it wasn't

13:51

like completely auto lost, like

13:53

it was like a, you know, 30, 70 or so. But

13:55

like any valiant deck in tall Lugia

13:57

is like a literally a 10 90. Like you

13:59

can't, you can't win

14:03

Yeah.

14:04

I actually, um, one

14:06

thing that I think is kind of interesting is the

14:08

Valiant Jolteon thing. Um, like,

14:12

I, it, it, it obviously has like much better damage

14:15

output into stuff like Lugia. Um,

14:17

and like Moon

14:19

Giratina kind of like, you don't have like the

14:21

insane damage fall off after

14:23

your turn two. Um, like the rapid

14:26

strike version does, But I

14:28

you give up three

14:29

it still has similar issues. Yeah.

14:31

Yeah. Like Roaring Moon is just

14:33

like, okay. All right. You do 200, I will

14:36

take three prizes, Um,

14:39

I haven't played any games with that version. It

14:41

does seem okay though. Um,

14:45

what other versions have you guys seen? I've seen the fire

14:47

version. I've seen the, obviously

14:50

the Urshifu version, and

14:52

I've also seen the

14:54

what, what version? Oh, psychic version. Yeah.

14:56

With ZA too. I also played against one

14:58

game on live where Dude was

15:01

playing, uh, just sweet Koon

15:03

v and Melony, so kind of like the fire version,

15:06

but with Sweet Koon instead, which seemed worse

15:08

than the fire version 'cause you

15:10

were relying on Melony instead of being

15:12

able to play a better supporter and

15:15

just magma, beason, the

15:18

fire version to the fire version

15:21

to me seems like the most versatile

15:24

I agree with this. I think if I were to play Valiant,

15:27

I would play the fire version. Um, I think,

15:29

you know, like we've been saying, I think Sie has the, is

15:31

the one with the most polarizing matchups. I

15:34

think fire, the fire version is probably

15:36

the best all around,

15:39

So I, I don't know if you guys saw that, uh, Joe

15:41

Bernard put out a list of like, he went through the

15:44

nine online tournaments that have had more than 90

15:46

players and kind

15:48

of pulled together the who,

15:51

who were, what were the best decks at those tournaments and

15:53

who did the best with them.

15:54

Mm-Hmm.

15:55

The, they had, um,

15:58

a rapid strike valiant, uh, having

16:01

65 cp quote unquote, the

16:04

ante valiant having 40. And

16:06

then the, um, Jolteon

16:09

valiant having 25. I, I, I

16:11

don't know, like, I feel like the piece that's missing in that data

16:13

they pulled together is, is how much were they played

16:16

relative to those outcomes. But

16:17

Right, right. And

16:20

like when he combined them all, valiant

16:23

was fairly low on

16:26

the list, like

16:28

right in the kind of like right in the middle.

16:31

Yeah, it seemed, it seemed not super successful,

16:34

right? Moon was the big hitter.

16:36

Was that more a function of people just wanted to play the new deck

16:38

than it being the best deck?

16:41

I mean,

16:41

I think Moon is gonna be probably,

16:44

I think Moon is probably gonna end up settling at a tier

16:46

one deck. Um, I think it's gonna be

16:49

a major force in the Meta. I don't see a world where

16:51

it doesn't, the deck is really fast, really strong.

16:53

Um, I do think, I

16:55

think, I personally, my belief, I think Valiant

16:58

is gonna settle in more like

17:00

tier two realm. Um, but

17:02

it's gonna be, it's gonna be that deck that, you

17:05

know, it's tier two, it's gonna have

17:07

a solid meta presence at every tournament. And

17:10

if you, whenever you hit it, if you're running

17:12

a deck that like doesn't beat

17:14

it, you're just gonna. You

17:17

know, you're gonna face

17:19

palm and be like, why? Why'd I have to hit

17:21

valiant?

17:24

Sounds right. I, I

17:26

will say, I think the, the valiant Roaring

17:28

Moon matchup is actually pretty close. It's

17:32

like, yeah. It's, it's

17:34

a, it's a really, really weird matchup. Um,

17:37

but I, I, I think that's

17:39

easily like valiant's most complex matchup because

17:41

you, you, know, the self damage

17:43

aspect gives you a chance to catch up in the

17:45

weight game. Um, and actually, you

17:47

know, like get some damage on the board, uh, as

17:49

opposed to like Pokegear

17:52

or. So that

17:54

matches a little bit closer. So I, yeah, I.

18:00

Yeah. Okay. So let's talk

18:02

about Roaring Moon a little bit. Yeah, so it,

18:04

it is the on

18:07

Joe's list, it was by far the most

18:09

successful, and

18:11

Uh, that and last Giratina,

18:14

yeah, but like, okay,

18:17

let me see. Uh,

18:18

you saw a different

18:19

oh, oh, oh. So there's two, he

18:22

has two things. So, uh, one,

18:24

I guess presumably only included top

18:27

eight, and Moon and Giratina were really

18:29

close in top eight. But then when he included top

18:31

16, moon jumped like

18:33

almost twice as much as the

18:36

next deck. And presumably,

18:38

here for top 16, you.

18:40

Hmm. It is presumably a

18:42

function of popularity of the

18:44

deck. Um, but like we said, the deck

18:46

is really good. Um, I haven't played too many games

18:48

with it, but I've played a lot against it.

18:51

Um, basically

18:53

every single list that I've seen gets turn one,

18:55

if they go second, they get turn one attack every

18:57

time, basically like

18:59

90% of the time. Um, which

19:02

is super powerful. Um, I

19:04

don't know exactly where the best, less best

19:06

list is gonna settle, but the deck is certainly

19:09

very consistent at what it's trying to

19:12

do. Um, I

19:14

think its biggest weakness is like, how do you,

19:16

like what's the best single prize attacker

19:19

and how do you weave it in? Um, dunno.

19:22

What do you guys think is like the best single prize attacker

19:24

for it to play?

19:27

It is just easily gian Moltres like,

19:30

Yeah. Well, I, I, I play a much

19:33

energy, heavier list than I think most

19:35

of us I've seen online. I play like, I think

19:37

around like 10. Um, yeah,

19:40

like you can just earth and vessel Moltres

19:42

like at any point in the game when you play like

19:44

that number of energy. Um, and

19:47

like in the case where all your energy are

19:49

somehow gone, like you, you of course have dark patch,

19:51

um, maybe energy switch. You play that as

19:53

well. Like, and then glaring Moltres is like

19:57

like a really good attacker. I, I

19:59

don't know what the more Pika people are doing, bro. Like

20:01

how do you ever take a prize with that Like,

20:04

it seems so awful.

20:06

Like it's really just good against, um,

20:10

stuff like Char Art or

20:12

Gardy, or Lost Box, right? Where you just use that

20:14

turn one.

20:16

I, I'm not testing against Lost Box at all.

20:18

Um, I'm testing very little against

20:20

Gardy. Um, and like,

20:24

yeah, it just seems mid.

20:27

It is a nice pivot too. But yeah, I

20:29

agree. I also like don't know. Does,

20:34

how, how, uh, how much

20:36

benefit does Roy Moon even get from a good single

20:38

prize attacker? Because they're always gonna have two

20:40

prize dudes benched. So it's really hard to

20:42

even really prevent the opponent

20:44

from going 2, 2, 2. Um,

20:47

because like, you're gonna have squawk benched

20:49

almost every game. You're gonna have

20:51

the, even if you're attacking with Mults or,

20:54

or whatever, you're gonna probably have a roaring

20:56

moon on the bench. Uh, I

20:59

don't know.

20:59

mean, the path that gets you to, to. I

21:01

mean, Moltres being a successful attacker, like

21:03

you're, you're late in the game, like stuff's

21:05

already happened, right? And you

21:07

don't have nothing

21:08

it's not like you're not playing

21:10

it's like fine in the mirror, like I

21:12

I play,

21:13

Okay.

21:14

so yeah, like in like the mirror,

21:17

you can.

21:20

Yeah. Yeah. That seems reasonable. Then I

21:22

feel like, I feel like if you're going for

21:24

that route, you, you probably do have to run

21:26

the iOS. 'cause otherwise,

21:29

like I said, they'll just have the gust and it won't matter.

21:32

Yeah.

21:33

So, so Liam, it sounds like your build is

21:35

different than kind of the build that you see people

21:37

playing online. Um, is

21:40

it, is it the, is the goat build, is

21:44

this the best deck?

21:45

I don't, I don't really know. This was just like, what,

21:47

what I thought that deck should look like, kind of like at

21:49

the start of the format and like, you

21:51

know, I've been playing the deck and I've been, I've been hitting my

21:54

turn one raring moons. Um, and

21:56

then like I have like a little bit of like, yeah,

21:59

I don't, I guess I don't really feel like,

22:01

um, I I don't know exactly what else

22:03

the deck could be doing. Um, the, the

22:05

Greninja water thing is I

22:08

guess what other people are making space for. You play a bunch of

22:10

energy switches, water energies, and

22:12

yeah, try to make something happen with That Um.

22:15

so, so coped to me.

22:18

Like, they

22:20

can definitely pull it off, but I, I

22:23

dunno how, how good it's exactly,

22:25

I, I played, I played a few games of it. I

22:27

played a few games of it. Um, it's,

22:30

you know, you can hit the Greninja.

22:32

It actually, like, it works. just

22:35

don't know if it's, I feel

22:37

like you sacrifice a

22:40

lot of, a

22:42

lot of ability to do anything else. Like

22:45

all, all you can really do is

22:48

swing with Roaring Moon and then,

22:50

you know, maybe one turning, one

22:52

game of turn or one turn a game.

22:54

You get off of Greninja and you

22:56

know, if that's all you really need to do to

22:58

win a, to win most games, like

23:02

maybe that variant's right? But that's,

23:05

that's all it can really do.

23:06

I mean, when I hear putting a bunch of energy switches

23:09

in to try to hit the Greninja, I, I feel like

23:11

that violates the mic rule of like, I'm gonna take

23:13

out these good cards, I'm gonna put in these bad cards, and

23:15

we're gonna see how it goes like.

23:18

I do think energy switch is like an okay

23:21

card in the deck. It's not a, it's not even,

23:23

even without the waters. It's not objectively

23:26

bad in the deck, but there's

23:29

probably better cards you could play

23:31

Yeah.

23:31

Yeah, I

23:33

think most of the lists I've been seeing across the board have in,

23:36

well, this is my personal opinion, I think they run too few

23:38

energy. I think that's a mistake a lot

23:40

of people are making with the Roaring Moon lists. Um,

23:44

and I think in a world where you're running heavier

23:46

energy, I think Larry and Mew Trace is just

23:48

like a really strong option.

23:51

Is brute bonnet ever, like the single prize

23:53

attacker of choice? I guess you'd have

23:55

to be, you'd have to be running multiple of the tool anyway,

23:57

which I don't know if you wanna do.

24:00

I mean, I, I.

24:04

It's one 30 kind

24:07

of,

24:07

Oh, oh, if you get the capsule on it.

24:09

yeah. I don't know if one 30 is any different

24:11

though.

24:14

I don't know, like, at

24:16

least in my experience, it's, it's like a super, this

24:19

format's super two price heavy and like,

24:21

uh, two price driven. Um, like

24:25

yeah, I don't, I don't think hitting

24:27

for 70 or like one 30, anything

24:29

short of two 20 in this format is like

24:32

super, super strong.

24:34

Yeah, unless you're Greninja hitting two. Two

24:37

Pokegear one. Yeah. I,

24:39

this feels like a very 2, 2, 2 meta, but

24:43

yeah.

24:44

All right, so we got Moon and

24:46

Valiant. We've talked a little bit about them. Uh,

24:50

you wanna touch on Gardy? I think it's worth

24:52

touching on Gardy.

24:53

I thought we, I thought we would work our way down, uh,

24:55

Joe's list. Is that,

24:56

Okay. Okay.

24:57

do it?

24:58

let's do that. Um,

25:00

his next one is lost Giratina.

25:02

lost Giratina. I know Liam

25:04

This deck.

25:05

opinions on Lost Giratina, so we'll let him

25:07

go. Last, uh, Caden,

25:09

what were you gonna say?

25:11

Uh, I think this, I think it's cope. Um,

25:15

I, I think, I think Lost Giratina is

25:18

a, not a bad deck, but

25:20

I think it is one of the most

25:22

solidly like high tier two

25:25

decks there is right now. Um,

25:28

I don't think the deck's bad. I think the deck's good. I

25:30

think it's a deck that a lot of people are used to, and there

25:32

are a lot of people that just run, run,

25:34

lost Giratina enough, which is perfectly fair because

25:36

it's a. It's a decently

25:38

hard deck to play. I think it's a, I think it's pretty good,

25:41

and then you can get results with it. Um,

25:43

I just think it, it is outshined

25:45

by so many other decks in this format. Um,

25:49

I, I just don't, I

25:53

don't know. I think it's fine. I think the deck's

25:55

fine. I just don't think it's near, it's near

25:57

the best and has any hope of being the

25:59

best.

26:02

I haven't played any games with it, but

26:04

I've played a little bit against it. I mean, the big

26:06

thing that it gets is counter catcher. Um,

26:10

and so that's like the big thing it gets, and

26:12

the big advantage I think that

26:15

it has metagame wise

26:17

is that. Loss box

26:19

is a lot weaker, so you kind of like lose

26:22

one of your slightly weaker matchups. You

26:24

become kind of maybe the defacto

26:26

loss on deck. Um, and

26:29

you kind of gain a pretty decent matchup,

26:32

I think in Roaring Moon like that. Match ups gotta be

26:34

solid for you. Um, but

26:38

yeah, I mean it's still Giratina, right? Um,

26:43

all the, all the negatives of Giratina before

26:45

are still, uh, there. You

26:48

get to maybe not play, I mean, your

26:50

boss, your boss spaces

26:52

just go to counter catchers, so you're not really gaining

26:54

any consistency necessarily. You're

26:57

not gonna play vessel. Yeah,

26:59

I don't know. I mean, it seems, yeah, it seems

27:01

fine. I kind of agree with Kaden, like it seems solid,

27:03

but not amazing

27:05

Yeah. I,

27:11

one of the points that I, I disagree with, I

27:13

guess that, that Mike said was, um, that

27:17

lost box was one of your, your weaker

27:19

matchups. I think that was one of your better matchups. The

27:21

deck is like, like, it

27:23

is so terrible against any

27:25

other deck that runs io. Like as

27:28

soon as that u io they don't set up

27:30

an attacker for the rest of the game, at

27:32

least against Lost Box. After you spent your

27:34

first six turns of bit seeking, you

27:36

were able to set up attackers because they don't play

27:38

io. And you know, of course, the Roxanne

27:41

versions that popped up in the Zamazenta builds at

27:43

the end of the format. They just cooked you. They,

27:45

they had the disruption was up. Um,

27:48

but yeah, like it just loses to any

27:50

deck that plays io. Um, I finally

27:53

put it into words the other day. Um,

27:56

why playing against that deck is so easy. They

27:58

don't attack, like they can't

28:00

set up attackers. Um, I

28:03

had a, I had a Valiant game the other day. I.

28:05

And like, this is valiant. And like, you

28:07

know, he had two Giratina out. So I wasn't, I wasn't doing anything.

28:10

I didn't, I wasn't dealing any damage, but it was

28:12

okay because the entire game, he

28:14

didn't find a Giratina VStar. He is three outs in deck, right?

28:17

No Giratina, VStar. Um, he

28:20

was just like sitting there bit seeking. So even with Valiant,

28:22

like the lowest damage output, uh,

28:24

deck in the game right now, I

28:26

had enough time watching this brother just

28:28

sit there a bit seeking to like,

28:31

take six prizes. And like, the

28:34

worst part is, is even after you get that attacker

28:36

off, you know, you spend your like first six turns of bit

28:38

seeking, you're down like three energy. Because

28:40

every single time it's like chorus path, energy, energy

28:42

and like, you know, goodbye

28:44

energy every single time, right? And then after

28:48

you attack, you lose two more ener.

28:50

Like you lose all your energy,

28:52

your attacker's disabled, and then they io you and

28:54

then you like, you just, man, the deck

28:56

is so bad. It, yeah, it doesn't be any

28:58

deck with io. It's it's terrible

29:01

deck. It doesn't attack.

29:04

I think, I think you're overselling on its weakness

29:06

a little bit. Um, I, I, I

29:08

stand by my belief that I think if the deck is

29:11

solidly like mid to high tier two, like

29:13

it was last format, um, and

29:15

I think it's gonna stick that way for the

29:17

foreseeable future.

29:20

Everybody who tells me the deck is good. They're like, oh, if

29:22

you hit everything you win. And like, I'm like, hit

29:24

everything. Like you have three quarters

29:26

in the discard, I io you to like

29:28

three and now you want like, you know, your

29:31

one VStar and deck plus like Mirage

29:33

Gate Super Rod off of this Iono like, it,

29:36

it just never happens dude. Like

29:39

the heck is terrible. And then like,

29:41

even if that happens, you're at one prize and then I owe I

29:43

own you again and now you have to hit like stable

29:45

eye energy off your I Owno to one. You still

29:47

have no chorus, like so

29:49

terrible.

29:52

The next deck. The next deck on Joe's

29:54

list is Lost Zone Box. Um,

29:57

I feel like the,

30:00

the versions that I've played against mostly on live are

30:03

lost zone with Roaring Moon in

30:05

there. Have you guys seen these

30:07

lists? Is

30:10

Roaring Moon their answer to is

30:12

Roaring Moon their answer to iron Hands? 'cause that seems like

30:14

a terrible answer to Iron Hands.

30:17

Yeah, it seems bad. Is this, so

30:19

his, his next one's the, like Zd

30:22

lost box, right?

30:24

Yeah,

30:25

uh

30:25

Hmm.

30:26

Or

30:27

yeah,

30:28

What?

30:29

right.

30:29

Oh,

30:30

yeah. The next one has listed is the Radiant ARD

30:32

loss box. I

30:34

oh, you're looking at the

30:35

oh. I thought we were looking at combined.

30:37

I was looking at combined as well. Um, but

30:40

okay. But I guess Radiance Ard lost Box takes up

30:42

239 of the 2 79

30:45

Uh, if you look at the combined,

30:47

so, yeah. Okay. So Radiance Ard, lost box.

30:49

That's what I was gonna say next. So there's, there is

30:51

the roaring Moon loss box that I've seen, but yeah,

30:54

radiance Ard seems

30:57

a lot better.

30:59

Yeah.

30:59

Yeah, I think,

31:00

loss box is like way, way, way down. It's

31:02

bad deck.

31:03

Okay.

31:04

I think C ZR is um, better

31:07

than Giratina. Uh, I

31:09

still think it is probably

31:11

outshined by a lot of what the Dexus format, but

31:14

I think, you know, like

31:16

we talked about, this is a two prize,

31:19

a two prize or format. Um, so

31:21

I think there's something to be said for

31:24

If you can lean pretty heavily into one prizes

31:27

to swing that can KO two prizes

31:29

and just take those two for one prize

31:31

trades, like you're in a, you're in a great

31:33

spot. And, and obviously

31:36

that's one thing that Zd Lost Box

31:38

is good at. So,

31:40

Yeah, it reminds me of, of the like prior

31:42

format where like when, when Radian Ard was

31:44

good at the kind of beginning of the last

31:46

format, it was like, uh, if you

31:48

get, if you get two attacks off Radian

31:51

Ard, you're like in pretty good shape and if you get three

31:53

off, you win the game. And like,

31:55

it's probably still like thats.

31:58

yeah, I agree. I, I

32:00

don't think much has changed.

32:02

and valiant.

32:04

Well, yes, obviously, I think, I think

32:06

you have a, the potential to win against

32:08

hands, um, I think Valiant,

32:10

you're just done

32:11

What, what do you do when the Lugia player attacks

32:13

with hands on turn two? Like how, how do you win that game?

32:17

oh, if they attack 'em, turn two, you're done for.

32:20

Yeah, you're cooked

32:22

No. Yeah, if they, if they get turned two, you're done.

32:25

no, there's no doubt.

32:26

Two's like not that hard for them, bro. What

32:29

if they attack with it on turn three, bro, and

32:32

now they have two prizes. You put another one 10 on Olivia,

32:35

like, what do you, at that point, we

32:37

have four prizes left. You two

32:39

prizes. Next you gonna hit the hit.

32:43

Yeah.

32:43

I guess the key question is when you look at these results,

32:45

it doesn't seem like luie is a big part of the meta.

32:48

yeah. But I think the same could probably be said about

32:50

chi Pow. So I think this is an interesting point with

32:52

iron hands decks in general, like against

32:55

a, against a our deck, you

32:57

probably just don't wanna take a single

32:59

prize KO, right? Um,

33:01

you just wanna wait. And even if you

33:04

can, you just want to chill until you can go hands

33:06

from six to four and then they

33:08

can't do anything about it. And then

33:10

you go four to two, and then you win the game.

33:13

the, the Han DT numbers work out for

33:15

them. I wonder if that's what's like in endless. Um,

33:17

but yeah,

33:19

Han DTE doesn't, uh oh,

33:21

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

33:22

but, but those cuts are bad and you don't hit that ever

33:24

and like Yeah,

33:26

Yeah.

33:27

probably doesn't.

33:30

Yeah.

33:30

Yeah,

33:32

Um,

33:32

I agree. I think, I mean, I think, I think Lost

33:35

Box as a, as an archetype will kind

33:38

of be fallout of the meta over

33:42

as, as this format progresses. And I think I

33:44

just, you know, because it was a

33:47

prominent deck at the end of last format, I

33:49

think it's worth going over. Um, Coyo

33:52

loss box, dead right,

33:56

Dead,

33:56

probably,

33:57

dead in the water with the new pace of the format.

34:00

It's not even on the list here.

34:04

Yeah.

34:04

yeah, it's probably not good

34:07

enough.

34:08

I dunno, like all this stuff seems fine. If, um,

34:12

all, all, the like aggressive anti

34:14

one prize stuff, which is like hands in valley and get

34:16

like completely chased out of the meadow by big

34:18

two prizes, like,

34:20

Right.

34:20

But like, yeah. Did I,

34:23

I post about that on my Twitter. It's like a really

34:25

weird triangle I guess.

34:28

Yeah. I think this is the strongest triangle format

34:30

we've had in a hot minute, but

34:34

yeah. Um, so next

34:36

one, Mew Fusion. Mew.

34:40

Um,

34:40

And there's not too much to say, right? It's

34:42

Mew. I feel like Mew, I feel

34:44

like Mew into Roaring Moon is like not that bad,

34:46

right? Because

34:49

Ooh.

34:49

if you go, like if you go second and get

34:51

the term with me, like you're chilling, right?

34:55

I, I found that's not the case because you have to give

34:57

up three prizes after they kill the Melmetal, like

34:59

the next turn

35:01

And then they just boss a gensec to win.

35:04

and the bus gen.

35:06

Like, is that what you mean? Or I

35:08

guess it, it doesn't matter.

35:09

Yeah,

35:12

Like they were, they went in three

35:13

No, yeah, yeah.

35:14

but you went in three attacks too, right?

35:16

Yeah. I, I dunno,

35:18

I, I was playing the matchup and it horrendous.

35:22

Was just getting cooked, bro. Like,

35:25

maybe I was getting them off prizes or something.

35:27

Like, I, I have no clue. But yeah, I

35:29

was just like attacking the Roaring Moon. And like, they,

35:31

they don't, they don't always hit the Kale for

35:33

the Roaring Moon. They need like two tablets from,

35:35

that's what I was about to say. You do need two tablets,

35:38

right? And you do need, even if you get turn

35:40

one Mewtwo, atta, you still need a tablet. So

35:44

actually you don't have

35:45

you, you have like Boss Squawk, but like,

35:48

I don't know, I, in my testing it

35:50

was Roaring Moon was like way better. And

35:52

like every time Roaring Moon, like Roaring Moon always

35:54

chooses to go second and then they, they're just

35:56

always winning.

35:57

Yeah, that's true.

35:59

so like,

36:00

Yeah, rolling Moon is way more consistent of getting

36:02

the turn one attack going second, which

36:05

is crazy, right? Like Mew is supposed to draw

36:07

so many cards and whatnot, but Moon is just like

36:09

way better at it, for sure. Yeah.

36:13

Yeah.

36:13

Yeah, I agree.

36:15

sense. Um,

36:18

Um, next up we've got Gardy

36:21

Gardy time. So Gardy, I

36:24

think that the, the biggest thing GDI gets,

36:26

which I think. Okay.

36:30

Personal opinion, I think it's worth running. Is the evolution

36:32

tm, um, tm.

36:36

Good card like that? Like that card.

36:39

Um, I think it's

36:41

worth running just to maybe slightly give you

36:43

a chance against Valiant if

36:45

you're going second. Um, also

36:47

it's just like, I

36:50

don't know. It's solid. It helps

36:52

you set up, I

36:54

so many things I wanna try, man.

36:56

dude, that, that does not give you a chance, bro.

36:59

You're.

37:03

that might be the case.

37:03

can, you can only, there's

37:06

so many things I

37:06

Going from 70 to 80 isn't, isn't

37:08

really relevant

37:09

Yeah. Like

37:11

Well, I meant more you're, you're faster to get to.

37:15

sure. But it doesn't really matter, I

37:17

All your stuff is gone instantly ro

37:19

Yeah. Like

37:22

Gardy has so many interesting things, ways

37:24

it could be built now. Like, uh,

37:27

you could run a heavy scream tail version. Uh,

37:29

we saw that there were a couple of lists from

37:31

Japan that did that, where you could run the tms.

37:34

Um, if you run the tms, maybe you run a heavy

37:36

clef key. Maybe you just run one or two clef

37:38

key. Um, like clef key is the way that

37:40

you would beat Iron Valiant. But you

37:42

have to either open it or go first.

37:46

Uh, yeah, I mean, going

37:49

second into Valiant is like not that

37:52

bad. Like you can get looped,

37:53

but you just have to open with so much and like you can never mute

37:56

on the collect D and if you don't get like more

37:58

than two, Kirlia is down or. When

38:01

you have the clef active, you also turn off the

38:03

man. You're open to rapid flow turn, so

38:05

like you just have to.

38:09

Yeah, that's true.

38:13

yeah. I don't know if You saw at, at Ethan,

38:15

uh, Hege posted all of

38:17

the winning lists from Japan City Championship,

38:20

uh, this past weekend. And there he posted

38:22

like, it was like two tweets

38:24

worth of Guard of War lists. There were like four different

38:26

or eight different lists that all did well.

38:29

Like it was the only one where he was like, you

38:31

know, continued, continued. Like, and,

38:34

and it was, yeah, it was a random collection

38:36

of like, some people ran two

38:38

counter catchers, some people ran one counter catchers,

38:40

some people ran No counter catchers, people ran shichi,

38:43

people ran, like, it was just all

38:45

kinds of crazy stuff. Energy counts were all

38:47

over the place.

38:48

yep. So, yeah, counter Catcher.

38:51

This is like one of the big decks where counter catcher's

38:53

extremely good. So just like Giratina, how you

38:55

can kind of go like io counter catcher,

38:58

uh, s eye, their biral, something like

39:00

that. With Giratina you can go similarly

39:02

with Garko io, counter Catcher,

39:05

Koko, back to Caliber, Koko Biral,

39:07

something like that. Um, so

39:10

counter catch is really big. Another question is,

39:13

do you play any Earth And vessel

39:15

seems pretty good in the deck, but I don't know if it's

39:17

worth the spot. Do you play the, uh, the

39:20

AZ card, the Professor Turo?

39:22

That also seems pretty good in the deck. Like

39:24

it gets a lot of interesting cards. I

39:27

just don't know how

39:29

you fit it all and like what direction

39:31

you, you go in. I think it'll be really dependent

39:33

on how the meta shapes up. So I feel

39:36

like Gardy is like maybe not the best

39:38

play for LAIC, but I

39:40

still think it'll be solid in

39:42

the format, just depending where

39:46

everything else goes. And you can

39:48

kind of decide actually how to build the deck. Uh,

39:51

yeah.

39:53

I played a little bit with it. Um, the screen tail

39:55

version, not like heavy screen tail. It was literally just one

39:57

screen tail. Um, I think, I think that's all

39:59

you need. Like you

40:02

have super odd still. It's, it's fine. Um,

40:04

like, just like Lia last format

40:06

was really, really good. Like, I don't you,

40:08

you didn't really need to cress. Um, I

40:11

don't think you need to screen tail. Um. Yeah,

40:14

it's like, it's just kind of a better Kirlia in

40:16

a format without, um, like um,

40:20

being super prominent. Like you can,

40:22

especially against Chimp Pal. And I, I think

40:24

it actually makes the chimp pal matchup, especially if they

40:27

go down to one super rod, like pretty

40:29

close. Like I, I, I think at the sort of a format,

40:31

obviously Jake was like, Jake,

40:33

like, you know, uh, a Gardevoir is completely dead

40:36

due to hands backs or something.

40:38

Um, but yeah, like all

40:40

you need is like Gardevoir fog crystal, and

40:43

then you instantly ka the backs on the bench, maybe

40:45

pair with iono and like if they only have one

40:47

rod, it can be pretty hard to, to deal with

40:49

that. Um, so

40:51

yeah, I, I think screen tails like, uh, definitely

40:54

really good on the deck. Um, probably,

40:57

like enough to, to make it like at least a

40:59

viable contender.

41:01

Cool.

41:02

Yep.

41:04

Charizard Char,

41:07

RDX,

41:08

SAR feels like it's in such

41:10

a weird spot for me right now, at

41:13

least in my head. Like, so

41:16

obviously it has similar, similar

41:18

issues to Dy against Valiant.

41:21

Um, you have

41:24

a near Auto Lost

41:26

Valiant it, it, but I don't know, like

41:29

the deck feels, I've

41:31

seen some interesting builds of ARD

41:34

floating around. You know, obviously there was the list that

41:36

did well that ran the Toad scroll. Um,

41:38

which I think we'll talk about Toad scroll in a

41:40

bit, but I think Zd

41:42

has lot of

41:44

different ways to be built right now and

41:47

I'm not sure what, what the best way

41:49

to build ARD is yet.

41:52

Well, and adding onto the iron valiant

41:54

comment of all the

41:56

evolving index, I feel like Charizard probably

41:59

has the best valiant matchup because like

42:04

if you, know, bench

42:06

three routes and two of them die, I.

42:09

You lose the game. If you bench th

42:12

two fridge and they both die, you lose the game. If

42:14

you bench three charmanders and one of them lives

42:16

and you get a char RDX, the next turn, that

42:18

one Char, RDX, can actually just

42:21

win you the game. Um, because they've

42:23

taken a couple prizes or one shot valance. I

42:25

don't know if the matchup is like favored, but

42:28

of all the stage two decks, in theory it

42:30

has the best matchup

42:33

there.

42:34

Your coat, dude, like that, that matchup

42:36

sucks, man. Like into

42:40

can't say it doesn't have the best one though.

42:43

I, I know if they're bad.

42:46

The, the Liam's like Iron Valley

42:48

at tier one. Let's go like

42:50

I also think at, at least, no, no, because, because

42:52

I was playing the rapid strike version, like the Gardevoir

42:55

version. Like if they, if they get a, a stage

42:57

two out, you like definitely lose, like,

43:00

um, and like kind of same with uh,

43:02

with backs, eh, backs a little bit less. Um,

43:05

but like Charles word,

43:07

when they get a stage two out, like you're

43:09

trading, you're like trading, uh, two

43:11

hits with

43:12

Uh, okay. Okay. That's fair. Against if, if

43:15

we're talking about fu Yeah, that, that makes sense.

43:17

I'll give you that. Um,

43:20

charar, the matchup char art's matchup against Rory

43:22

Moon is also like, kind of sketchy.

43:24

I don't think it's like an auto loss or anything, but

43:27

it's probably slightly unfavor. Um,

43:29

we talked a little bit about how it should play

43:31

out in our chat the other day, and I, I

43:34

need to play the matchup better from the Charar

43:36

side for sure, but it still seems like

43:38

pretty annoying that they can just blow

43:40

you up.

43:43

Yeah, I mean obviously

43:46

like, like last

43:48

one as well, but even more so, you know, radiant Czar

43:50

is your crutch. It's, it's the thing that give, I

43:52

think, gives C Zd a chance in

43:54

this format.

43:55

right?

43:58

Terrible.

43:59

It also sucks that like it's um,

44:02

the one stage two deck that really wants

44:05

to go second when every other deck wants to go second,

44:07

you know, like at least Gardy and

44:09

Q and pal, you're kind of like, okay, I'm

44:13

okay going first right against some

44:15

of these other big decks.

44:17

But Zad is like, man, I really want to go second two,

44:20

just like every other deck in the format.

44:24

Yeah. sense.

44:27

Yeah, I agree with that.

44:31

Um,

44:31

All right. What was, what was next? What have

44:33

we got?

44:34

Uh, uh, let me propose something real quick. We've already

44:36

been going for quite a while, so

44:39

maybe we can just

44:42

talk about like chin pow

44:45

a little bit more and then, 'cause

44:48

I feel like that's like the big deck that's

44:50

still on this list. Um, and

44:52

then we can talk about for a

44:54

little bit some of the more esoteric cards.

44:58

Okay.

44:59

Chi pow, go for it. What do you guys think?

45:02

Um, I think Elle's in a good spot right now.

45:04

I've done some testing with the deck. I think that a

45:07

lot of people are, you know, building a

45:09

little too heavily into the iron hands than

45:11

I think is actually necessary. Um, it's

45:13

definitely, I, I said this a while back

45:15

as well, but it's definitely a type of thing that you just

45:17

like, you know, splash in

45:19

a little bit. If, if the Met is right and

45:21

it seems like a right call. And I, I think for LAIC

45:24

it's probably right, splashing it in. Um, and

45:27

by splash it in, I mean, you run, you

45:29

know, one iron hands, one

45:31

earth and vessel, one to two lightning energy

45:33

and leave it at that. Um, I

45:35

don't, I think anything more

45:38

than that's unnecessary. Um, I

45:40

think the PE

45:42

cutting cross switchers, Feels

45:45

like a mistake. Um, maybe

45:47

you can cut the cologne, but even that feels

45:49

a slightly iffy. Um, I

45:52

think the deck's really strong. I think it's in a great spot.

45:54

Um, I think it has decent matchups

45:56

across the board. Obviously bad

45:59

matchup against Valiant, that's that being, it's

46:01

probably by far it's worst matchup. But um,

46:04

also, you know, as always struggling

46:06

against Mew. Um, so

46:09

Mew and Valiant in my head are the, probably

46:11

the two worst matchups for Chimp

46:13

Pal. But yeah.

46:16

I, I agree with Caden. Um, I think

46:19

you, you have to stay at two super odds. You

46:21

have to play switchers in at least one cologne.

46:24

Um, and like if you cut

46:26

back on any of those, I think any, your matchups take

46:28

like a serious hit. Um, like

46:32

yeah, you you no longer have

46:34

the ability to just beat anything once you've

46:36

set up. I think once you cut those cards. Um,

46:39

and so I, I,

46:41

I think you have, you, you have to keep them, uh,

46:44

and then try to fit in the iron hands elsewhere. And

46:46

like at that point it's, it's something that really

46:48

is meta dependent. You have to think you're gonna get a lot of value

46:50

out it if you're gonna find other

46:52

cuts to.

46:54

Cool. I don't really have anything to add. I

46:57

think I agree. I, I guess I,

46:59

I totally agree on keeping the switchers.

47:01

I guess I'm less confident on keeping the one

47:03

cologne. Um, but I could see

47:05

it. I can see either way.

47:07

I, I haven't tested enough to figure

47:10

out exactly whether or not you can afford to cut the clo,

47:12

but that testing will will happen.

47:15

Um, do you wanna talk about Toad scroll?

47:18

Sure. Let's talk about Toad School. You go.

47:21

So, toad School for the listeners is

47:24

a stage one from Paradox Rift that, uh,

47:26

its ability prevents

47:29

your opponent from taking

47:32

cards from their disc card pile into their hand via

47:34

the effects of their trainer

47:36

cards.

47:38

Yeah, so, so

47:42

I think, I think it's worth, you know, some

47:45

obvious matchups where this is, uh,

47:48

this was run as sort of a splash tech

47:50

in a ARD list at one of

47:52

the Japan tournaments. I think that's where, you

47:54

know, Twitter first picked up on this

47:57

card. Um, and,

47:59

you know, obviously it. Makes

48:02

for a, for a lot of decks, um,

48:05

ow it cripples ow, you know,

48:07

not having access to SER and ba. It

48:10

also cripples, um, gold go for

48:12

what? For what it's worth. Um, both of those decks

48:14

are heavily SER reliant and,

48:17

um, this card just cripples those

48:19

two. That's, that's primarily what it's

48:21

for. Um, I think it's worth mentioning,

48:24

you know, some, some of the other impacts

48:26

it has, most notably on pokey stop. Um,

48:29

pokey stop, of course. Unintuitive

48:31

and what we were talking about this

48:33

briefly before the pop, but, um, pokey

48:36

stop discards all the cards from the top

48:38

of your deck and then returns the item cards that

48:40

were discarded into your hand. So, um,

48:44

toad scroll will block that, notably only

48:46

if it is your own pokey stop because

48:48

Toad scroll reads, um, from,

48:51

from your cards. Then

48:53

if your opponent plays down pokey stop, you

48:55

can still use the pokey stop and get the full effect.

48:57

But if you play pokey Stop, toad scroll will

49:00

stop you from getting the items. So worth

49:02

keeping that in mind. It's a little weird, but,

49:04

um, I think

49:07

the card's good. Um, outside

49:09

of stopping SERI think it's value

49:11

is a little niche, but yeah,

49:15

I guess it would stop Clara, right?

49:19

this is true. But, you know, a lot of, a

49:21

lot of like lost box stacks are already leaning

49:24

a little heavier on the broad

49:27

over

49:27

yeah, yeah, for

49:28

I think it's, it's effect against chimp power

49:31

is, is definitely being like overestimated

49:33

right now. Um,

49:35

Because you can cologne it

49:36

like, yeah, it's like a two rod cologne.

49:38

Build it. Like, it just never like. Yes.

49:42

Like sticking the, the toes rule

49:44

in play is, is so hard to do.

49:47

I, I think I said this at the start, like, um,

49:50

like when the step first came out, uh, like

49:54

you have to make sure that you're doing everything else, um,

49:57

to, to to like mess with chimp pal, uh,

50:00

like ing the failing the fis.

50:02

Um, you know, like you have to do everything

50:04

else that you'd already be doing while setting

50:06

up the, like, the tow school to try to keep it

50:08

in play. Like it's only good when

50:10

you think about it if like you're, like, you

50:13

suddenly catch them with like all of their energy in their

50:15

discard. They no longer have any rods and

50:17

like you're like, boom, tow school now

50:19

you lose. And like every other situation

50:22

that like, they have some sort of counter play

50:24

around it, so you have to make sure that you're like hitting

50:26

all of their resources just as hard as you would

50:28

be without setting up this toad screw while

50:30

trying to set up the toad screw, which is like pretty

50:32

hard for.

50:34

Yeah. I think it's also worth noting if, if you

50:36

try to like play this down late, um,

50:39

when you know they already have burned a lot of resources

50:41

potentially and are more SER reliant, like

50:44

chimp the, you will need to have, unless

50:46

you're running Thornton, the Toad School will

50:48

be down for a turn the chimp, how

50:50

player will know that Toad School is coming and

50:52

be able to play around it by,

50:55

um, like preemptively playing

50:58

SCRs or whatnot if, if possible.

51:00

Mm-Hmm.

51:01

Or

51:01

so I, I agree with Liam. I

51:04

think, yeah, I, I think this card is, um,

51:06

not as good as Twitter

51:09

makes it out to be. But,

51:11

um,

51:12

about Toad? Scroll in Zoro box. Then

51:15

you can just, we

51:17

That's a little better. That's a little better.

51:19

that is actually, that is actually a little better. I

51:22

mean, I think it's still, um, it

51:24

might be worth running. It might be worth running

51:27

one, it might actually be worth running one at that point,

51:29

I, I, think it absolutely is.

51:30

yeah.

51:31

gonna place a.

51:32

Yes, if you're playing Zekrom Box,

51:34

like, Zekrom box is what I'm taking to, uh,

51:37

San Antonio regionals then, then you should put a

51:39

toast Cruel in

51:41

yeah, I

51:43

agree. I agree.

51:46

so speaking of other, speaking

51:49

of bad single pres deck, like zuro bugs,

51:51

my favorite deck for sure right

51:54

now. Is cloth

51:56

electrode. I love

51:58

playing this deck. I don't know, I

52:01

don't think it's gonna be like great metagame

52:03

wise, but, uh, it's

52:05

been really fun to play. It's, uh, it,

52:07

you know, it runs the brute bonnet and

52:10

spicy season curry to uh, get

52:12

some special conditions on, on the

52:14

board. And then you hit hard electrode

52:16

grass typing is not bad. You one

52:18

shot Roaring Moon really easily. You one shot charge

52:21

RDX really easily. The cloth

52:23

gives you a decent single prize attacker.

52:25

Um, the math is just like

52:27

a little awkward. You can, you can do two 20

52:29

and two 30, so like, you can kill the, the,

52:32

the chi pals with

52:34

electrode and like a Lugia V and

52:36

like Vs. But anything like

52:39

that gets to a VStar range, like

52:41

Lugia VStar or Mew VMax, things

52:44

like that. Those matchups are. Much,

52:46

much, much harder. 'cause then you're two shoting them

52:49

and you know, that's not great. Um,

52:51

but it's super fun deck. It's really consistent. Um,

52:54

and just like other decks in the format, you

52:56

want to go second and you pretty consistently get a

52:58

turn one attack off. So

53:01

it's a deck that I'll definitely be taking to local

53:03

events. So I don't know if I would take it to a regional,

53:06

but super fun. I dunno if you guys have

53:08

played any games with it,

53:09

I mean, you, you successfully picked the deck that got dead

53:11

last on Joe's rankings, right?

53:15

Sure, sure. But that means it got

53:17

some points.

53:20

that, that's right. Dead. Dead last is not

53:22

zero. Right?

53:24

yeah, yeah, yeah. And it hasn't

53:26

been played like at all. Basically

53:29

like if I, if I go to,

53:31

uh, I, I was actually looking at it earlier today

53:34

also. Everyone's lists suck also,

53:38

but it was only, it's only been played by, uh,

53:40

like, dunno. 15

53:43

people or so in, in all of those

53:45

tournaments and all of their lists

53:47

suck. My list is a lot better, so

53:50

That's the spirit.

53:51

super fun.

53:52

So, so, uh, the, the one prize deck that was

53:54

at the top of Joe's rankings is Snla stall.

53:56

Is that worth discussing at all, or is that just bad?

54:00

that's the, that's the deck I tell people to

54:02

play when they're, they say they aren't enjoying the game. Um,

54:06

yeah, like, you know, if you, if

54:09

you want to get like a real game of Pokegear that lasts more

54:11

than four turns a good deck. Um.

54:14

It definitely prolongs the game, but like it's, it

54:16

doesn't actually have like a high win rate. Like it

54:18

is, it is the deck that like, I

54:21

think is an example of

54:23

a mistake a lot of people people make when they're

54:25

like trying to build, um, heavy

54:28

decks. Is that like, they

54:32

overemphasize on wind conditions,

54:34

um, and deemphasize on buying

54:37

time or, uh, like underemphasize

54:39

buying time, just like buying time in and

54:41

of itself. That deck does a really good job

54:43

of buying time. It does a terrible job

54:45

of doing anything, uh, while you both

54:47

are passing. Um, so

54:52

yeah, that's, that's what I'd say about the deck. It's

54:54

like pretty rare in that sense, I think.

54:56

Um, but yeah, it's, it's.

55:01

I figured out how to beat it with my cloth

55:04

working assumption when I looked at Joe's results was,

55:07

uh, might as well give people the strats,

55:09

drive it outta the

55:10

Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. So, so

55:13

I lost to it one time. My,

55:16

my cloth deck plays for switching cards. So

55:18

the first time I played against it, I was like, maybe I can

55:20

just like, you know, algorithm them down and use

55:22

my switch cards to, to win the game. But that didn't work. So

55:24

then I cued against it a second time on live and

55:26

I was like, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm just gonna

55:28

poison myself and

55:31

let, and let it die and let things die. 'cause

55:33

then they can't counter capture. So I just like

55:36

let the poison kill my Pokegear over and

55:38

over and over again. Then they couldn't lock anything

55:40

and I eventually won the game.

55:44

hilarious.

55:45

It was very

55:46

funny.

55:49

I'll say that

55:51

shouldn't work dude. like that

55:53

shouldn't work around. They, they

55:56

should definitely be playing Echos Born

55:58

or Erica's. They should also be playing, um,

56:00

obviously heel cards, like maybe Serena and

56:02

maybe Penny. Uh, they should be able

56:04

yeah. Yeah. I want them to heal their Pokegear. They can

56:06

heal their Pokegear. My Pokegear need to die.

56:08

yeah, yeah. So they can't play counter catcher.

56:10

Yeah. I just give up five prizes and then I

56:12

can just attack

56:15

They should be playing one boss. They

56:17

should also, and then, yeah, they should delete all

56:19

your switch cards while you do this, like

56:21

a long, long process. And then they play

56:23

the boss and win the game.

56:24

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It

56:27

was just funny though. Um, okay.

56:31

Are there any other interesting, but maybe

56:33

not. Oh, what do

56:34

is a neat,

56:35

the, uh, what do you guys think of the,

56:37

uh, the deli bird card? I forget

56:39

what it's called. The one that, um, you can discard

56:41

it and switch their dude. You think that has

56:43

any application in anything?

56:47

it's such a cool card, but yeah,

56:49

I mean, decks have to stop playing like four rope

56:51

before That card gets any value.

56:55

I don't know, like Fiona was played quite

56:57

a lot, right?

56:58

No, no, no. Yeah. Like what, what I'm saying though

57:00

is like the deck that you would like want to throw it

57:02

in would be something like iron valiant

57:04

that's already playing like, or like could

57:06

make, that's like a deck that would give value out

57:09

of playing like techno radar. Which

57:11

is like a card that's synergistic with a deli,

57:13

bird or whatever, iron Bundle. Um, but

57:16

like that's, that's a deck that's

57:18

already playing four ropes. You have access to that effect

57:20

like constantly. There's, there's

57:22

just no reason to play. I, I had it in my like first list

57:24

because it's like super cute of course. Um, but

57:27

it doesn't, it doesn't do anything like

57:29

you're, you already have ropes and

57:32

I, and I think a lot of format already have ropes

57:34

as well, so it's.

57:38

Hmm.

57:38

Yeah, I feel, I feel

57:40

similarly. I

57:43

think the card's mid. Um,

57:47

yeah, I feel like we've gotten

57:49

a good, I feel like

57:51

we've gotten a good lay of the initial lay

57:53

of the land for Paradox Rift. Um,

57:57

I think LAIC is gonna be very interesting, uh,

57:59

you know, as is the case with any sort

58:02

of three-pronged meta. Um,

58:04

we've had a lot of these in the history

58:06

of Pokegear, but as, as is the

58:08

case with any of them, you know, meta

58:12

is key. Trying to get an accurate read

58:14

of the meta is a kind of everything.

58:16

Um, and so I'm very, you

58:19

know, if you're going to LAIC number

58:21

one thing you should be trying to figure out

58:23

is what everyone else is gonna be playing. Where,

58:26

where people are leaning, what decks are taking

58:29

the reins of the format. Um, and

58:32

if you're not going to LAIC, you

58:34

know, a lot of

58:36

it's gonna be, you know, look to LAIC,

58:38

see what did well tried and try offer

58:41

that, trying to predict. You know

58:43

what's gonna be popular at San Antonio regionals

58:45

or whatever's happening next. Yeah,

58:50

Mike, there's still time for you to decide to go to San Antonio.

58:53

I cannot go. We're doing something that

58:56

weekend.

58:59

We are also doing something. We're gonna San Antonio.

59:04

Uh,

59:04

It's the River Walk. Everybody loves it.

59:08

I

59:08

All right, guys. Mm-Hmm.

59:10

I, I am play. I am playing and

59:12

running. my cup

59:15

the weekend of LAIC. So I will be

59:17

playing Paradox, riff format the

59:19

weekend it comes out. So I am preparing for

59:21

a lead cup.

59:24

All right. Wait, are

59:24

you have any events in paradox?

59:27

what'd you say?

59:28

Are you doing any events in Paradox?

59:31

Like major events?

59:32

Yeah.

59:33

I don't know. We'll see what the new year brings, but

59:36

yeah, definitely got the, got a league

59:38

cup that I'm playing on Saturday the

59:41

18th or whatever. And then I'm running my

59:43

league cup on the 19th, so if you guys wanna

59:45

come up that Sunday for

59:48

my

59:49

spicy?

59:49

or

59:50

I,

59:50

you could do it.

59:52

oh no, the 18th and 19th.

59:55

Mm-Hmm?

59:56

That's problematic. That's problematic. I,

59:58

I am, I'm taking the, uh, the

1:00:00

little lady away for a, uh, quick weekend.

1:00:04

Hmm.

1:00:04

Uh, you know what? We, we would've to

1:00:06

discuss whether or not Liam can just stay at your house

1:00:08

all weekend.

1:00:10

Hmm. Could do that if you want to come.

1:00:13

Liam Liam's. Like, that's too, that's too much for Liam

1:00:16

No, that's not too much for me. That's

1:00:18

not too much for me. I know it's too much for.

1:00:21

Alright guys. The John Paul's are

1:00:23

our outro. That's episode

1:00:26

155 in the books.

1:00:27

Boom. Sweet.

1:00:30

Mike, how do you, how do you find any motivation

1:00:33

to play the game if you don't have, um, like a tournament

1:00:35

coming up? Dude, like, it's like an absolutely crushing

1:00:37

feeling for me. Anytime. I'm like, man,

1:00:39

any, any work I do with this format is just gonna

1:00:41

get like, shipped off to some European player

1:00:43

or something, bro. Like,

1:00:45

My favorite part of playing like, is this

1:00:47

part, like, I don't even, like, I

1:00:49

don't love playing in major events.

1:00:52

I just enjoy like building

1:00:55

decks and talking about ideas.

1:00:56

yeah, I do too. But like, I

1:00:59

build these decks and like the good

1:01:01

feeling I get is like in anticipation

1:01:03

that this like deck will be used and

1:01:06

like, you know, I'll be able to like,

1:01:08

use this later

1:01:10

well, well, I am hopeful that like,

1:01:12

you know, my

1:01:14

friends will at least

1:01:17

benefit from my testing

1:01:20

and yet, and not a random person, but yeah,

1:01:22

I under, I understand it it a little bit, you're

1:01:25

saying,

1:01:28

I I just give up as, as soon as I reach the

1:01:30

end of my format, bro. If the next set's not out

1:01:32

on TCG Live yet, I'm done. I

1:01:35

play Fortnite for a few weeks, bro.