0:05

Welcome to the Trashland podcast. It's the

0:07

best podcast in the game

0:09

because it's the only podcast about the Pokemon

0:12

trading card game. Attendance is

0:14

133%, Mike, Liam,

0:17

Caden, me, we are

0:19

recording this so you can listen.

0:21

If you have not left a 5 star review, you

0:24

could leave a review, and if you left a

0:26

review, even if it was not 5 stars, we

0:28

would read it on the pod, and it would be

0:30

incredible. Dragon Shield is our sponsor,

0:32

they send us sleeves, it's amazing. We're

0:34

gonna talk about three incredible

0:37

things today. We're gonna talk about... The

0:39

regionals that just took place in France. We're

0:41

gonna talk about the regionals coming

0:43

up in Toronto. And we're gonna talk about Mike's

0:45

hot takes for the next format. And

0:47

if we do all of those things, and

0:49

keep it compact, because we just talked for like

0:51

10 minutes without me hitting the record button, then

0:54

we'll be right on schedule! Alright,

0:58

guys, let's, uh,

1:00

we kicked off the conversation 10 minutes ago by talking

1:02

about the Chen Pao list, and the conclusion for

1:04

the Chen Pao list that was played to a top

1:07

4 finish by Owen Camerman is... It's

1:10

Yeah, it's a Chen Pao list. It's a good Chen

1:12

Pao list. It's basi it's, yeah. I

1:15

mean, uh, any,

1:17

like, I continue to say, any list

1:20

that's like within 57, 58 cards

1:22

of Cheren's world's list is a

1:24

It's a pretty good, it's a good gem pile list.

1:28

Yeah. And one thing I didn't say before is

1:30

like, I think Chien

1:32

Pao is actually like pretty hard to play. Uh,

1:34

Cheren keeps telling

1:36

us that he thinks it's like a pretty difficult deck

1:39

to sequence and whatnot. So not surprising

1:41

that a really great player, uh,

1:43

was the one to top four with it.

1:47

I agree. I think it is a deceptively

1:49

hard deck. It's one of those decks

1:51

that like, it's one of those decks that when

1:53

you play poorly, it's

1:55

hard to recognize that you're playing poorly,

1:58

but it just,

2:01

like every wrong choice you made decreases

2:05

your win percentage. So, at the end

2:07

of the day, by the end of the game, you don't

2:09

feel like you made any major mistake

2:11

that like, lost you the game, but

2:13

it's kind of just been like, you might have made

2:15

a series, a bunch of micro

2:18

mistakes throughout the game that just reduced

2:20

your win percentage, so if you can play the deck optimally,

2:23

um, I actually think it has It's

2:25

one of, if not the best matchup

2:27

spread in the game. That's my

2:29

feeling about the deck.

2:31

coming in second at the

2:33

little regionals is Switcher's Cologne,

2:36

Lost Zone, Box. Um,

2:39

And as I said before, this is a Lost

2:42

Zone deck that you can play. If you

2:44

would like to. Uh,

2:47

highlights are... Crossswitchers,

2:50

Cologne, Ditto, Spiritomb,

2:52

and Double Roxanne. So they cut like

2:54

a lot of, uh, other

2:56

pretty good cards to fit these

2:58

cards. A switch card, an escape rope, they

3:00

only played two nest balls, two

3:03

vacuums, two sealstones, two stadiums. So,

3:05

it's really taking the turbo

3:08

out of turbo, um, and...

3:11

Playing a little bit more techy of a build.

3:13

The Cologne play is really just for the Mirror,

3:15

presumably. Like, there's no way that you're gonna

3:18

be able to hold enough cards in your hand

3:20

versus something like Gardevoir, as

3:23

they Iono you. So

3:25

it's really just for Mirror. Um, but

3:28

you're also giving up some percentage points against

3:31

Mirror by being a little bit slower, by

3:33

not playing a fourth Switch card for the healing.

3:36

So, it's interesting. I'm sure

3:38

it caught people off guard, and

3:40

that was probably a big part of it. Um,

3:43

and then we talked a little bit about Ditto

3:45

as well, and like, is Ditto really

3:48

worth it over the,

3:50

just like, extra copies of Nessball? Maybe?

3:54

Maybe not? I'm not too sure.

3:57

I'm a big fan of cards like that, like, I

4:00

think it's a, it's

4:02

pretty low cost to play. And

4:04

it's a pretty large consistency bump. Like,

4:06

I don't think there's a great argument that,

4:08

like, whatever else you were going to do with card

4:10

60 is, like, you

4:13

know, super duper good. Like, it goes to, like, 4th

4:16

Nespo or, like, 3rd Vacuum or something

4:18

like that. Like, I don't think you'd see,

4:20

like, um, the same,

4:22

like, noticeable impact on your games as you

4:24

do with, like, Ditto. Which is, you

4:26

know, started, I

4:28

think 8 percent was the number. Um,

4:31

and all those games go, like, significantly better.

4:34

Yeah. Um, one thing I think

4:36

it's important to note, you know, my belief about

4:38

this meta has always been that this

4:40

is an incredibly diverse meta with

4:42

a bunch of pretty largely even

4:44

decks. Um, that, kind

4:47

of just you should, honestly, you should

4:49

just play whatever you're most comfortable with and think you can

4:51

pilot the best. And this, this

4:53

belief has only been reaffirmed with these results

4:56

as, um, all eight

4:58

of the top eight decks from this past regionals,

5:01

um, were different. Uh, the one

5:04

that, you know, maybe you call them the same, DT

5:06

Mew and a Fusion Mew. Um,

5:08

I feel like those decks are very

5:10

different, they have very different matchup spreads, but, um,

5:13

their every single deck in the top 8

5:16

this past tournament was different. So,

5:18

yeah. I feel like, you

5:21

know, this gets a little bit into the Toronto, but, uh,

5:24

and what you should do for Toronto, but, I

5:26

think in this sort of meta, just play what you're comfortable

5:28

with,

5:30

yeah,

5:31

kind of even.

5:32

we realized we weren't recording as

5:34

Caden was asking Liam about

5:36

the stall decks that were played today too in

5:40

France. Comfort

5:43

decks, nothing like them.

5:44

Liam's comfort deck is Banette

5:47

Gardevoir, so Liam, tell us about the Banette Gardevoir

5:49

deck that got top 32,

5:52

question mark?

5:52

Yeah, top 32.

5:54

Yeah, uh, I said this

5:56

before, I thought that list was really, really

5:58

good. I, until I saw

6:01

the stream match, I didn't quite, like, put

6:03

the dots together. That instead of having

6:05

to play Penny, you can just play the Binette,

6:07

um, that Lost Stones itself, because

6:10

that, that, that actually is a way to create

6:12

a bench slot. Um, I'd only

6:14

thought of it as, like, support or recovery, but that's

6:16

a, that's a good way to create a bench slot. Um...

6:20

When you need to create, like, space for, uh,

6:22

Alakazam, which is really

6:24

good. Um, what

6:27

else was on that list? Uh,

6:30

yeah, I guess the list was like, um, it

6:33

was a lot more, like, attacking focused. Like, I

6:36

think that string game showcased it really well, in that

6:38

it was just looking to get, like, an early lead with Binette,

6:40

and then finish off the game, um,

6:42

by just, like, trading even

6:45

with Shadow Rider and Mew EX.

6:47

Mew EX is really, really good for the deck. Um,

6:49

it gives... It gives you a psychic type attacker

6:51

that is, or like, like, like an attacker that you can access

6:54

that is able to take big one hit KOs. That's

6:56

always been a really big problem for Binette because you don't play

6:58

enough psychic energy to make good use of Arcana

7:01

Gardevoir. And there's not a lot of other, like, splashable

7:03

psychic attackers, at least pre, uh,

7:06

Mew EX, that were able to take, like, big

7:08

one hit KOs unconditionally. Like, Binette,

7:11

um, if they played their hand all the way down, my

7:13

list from Pittsburgh could only do 190, basically.

7:16

Um, maybe a little bit more value to them.

7:18

Um... So yeah, Mew

7:21

EX makes the deck, like, much, much better. Um,

7:24

the Banetta Recovered Supporter's pretty

7:26

good. Uh, and the list

7:28

was just overall, like, a very good list.

7:31

Um, I really liked

7:33

it. I don't think it's that

7:35

good, though. Uh, it's... the Gardevoir

7:37

matchup is still terrible. Like,

7:40

you should lose to good Gardevoir players,

7:42

like, pretty much every time. Um,

7:45

and I...

7:45

you think, do you think the Shadow Rider Path

7:47

combo is like, consistent enough

7:49

to beat Lugia? Or is it just kind of like, turns

7:52

an auto loss into like a 50 50?

7:56

no way that's happening. Like, you

7:59

should be losing in best of three set, I think, just

8:01

with that. Um, the

8:03

Lugia matchup's not, like, terrible,

8:06

though. Uh, like,

8:08

that's just a matchup bump. And, like, even if

8:10

you don't get it, you still have, like, some

8:12

winning chances in the matchup. Like, that

8:15

list isn't playing any energy suppression at

8:17

all, so it's probably... Probably,

8:20

actually, it's probably really, really bad

8:22

for that list. You might be able to do, like, some tricks,

8:24

like if they bench two Ttar, and they

8:26

overcommit their single strikes, and you're able to, like, remove

8:28

one of them. Um, but that's able to

8:30

lock the other, because you unlock them out of urn,

8:33

which is pretty cool. Um, and they don't

8:35

have, like, a lot of great attackers. That's

8:37

in the single strike matchup. The colorless

8:40

matchup must be horrific as well, because it's jet

8:42

energy and stuff. Um, yeah,

8:45

it's probably no good against Lugia

8:47

and um, Thanks for watching! Was

8:50

it Gardevoir? You do take, like, much better matchups,

8:52

though, than I'd say, like, compared to the rest of the meta,

8:54

against Lostbox and Charizard. Those are, those

8:57

are definitely good. Um, yeah,

9:00

no, no Energy Special makes the Zard matchup a little bit

9:02

worse, as well, though.

9:04

Yeah, I'm looking at his matchups

9:06

It's also, it's also really good against Mew. It's really good

9:08

against Mew. And Chentop.

9:11

I'm looking at his matchups throughout the tournament.

9:13

Looks like he faced... Yeah,

9:16

he did not hit a Lugia until,

9:19

um, around 15. And

9:21

up until then, he hit 5 Zard,

9:25

where he went 4 1.

9:28

Um, 3 Guardi, where he went

9:30

2 1. He faced

9:32

against, um, 2 Turbo

9:34

Lost, which he 2 0'd both. A

9:37

Chimpow that he beat, um, and

9:40

then his ties were against a Meridon,

9:42

a United Wings, and

9:44

then, um, a Fusion

9:49

Yeah, the timing for the deck is

9:51

bad. Fusion Mew has a little bit more energy,

9:53

so I guess that's, like, worse, but... This

9:56

should all be. Good matchups, I think,

9:58

um, I don't really know what happened there. Um,

10:00

do you tie, how do you tie United Wings? Like

10:03

you just, you just attack with Shadow Rider, you auto

10:05

win.

10:06

uh, they play Dark Energy. Um,

10:09

really? Okay.

10:10

yeah, no, but, like, if you just boss

10:12

the Curly up, like, you should,

10:15

you should win. Or, like, yeah,

10:18

and then you have, like, Alakazam. Like, I think that

10:20

matchup should be really good. Um,

10:24

Mew. Now,

10:25

but

10:26

important question, Liam, although

10:28

I guess this deck doesn't have any way to infinite

10:30

loop, so you can't... I was gonna

10:32

ask, um, thoughts

10:34

on no Dreepy, but without

10:37

any way to infinite loop, it doesn't, it wouldn't really

10:39

make sense to run a Dreepy.

10:41

Yeah, 3P is like, it's

10:44

fine. It's like, kind of tricky. It's good against

10:46

Zord. But, you play him.

10:49

Yeah.

10:51

Now, now, I think the more important question, though,

10:53

is do you think this deck should be running a Cleffa?

10:57

Um, was it playing Celebrations Mew,

11:00

or no?

11:01

Uh, it was not, no.

11:04

Uh, I'd say,

11:07

um, You can probably

11:09

get by without it, just because it's playing the Luminion. Um,

11:12

so it gives you, like, way more apps to draw. Like, my

11:14

apps to draw is I went Ultra Ball Cleffa. Um,

11:17

everyone?

11:19

Mm hmm.

11:19

The Luminion works as well. Um,

11:23

I know I have Luminion, though, so

11:26

it's fine. I guess Cleffa's a little bit better for me, because I wasn't

11:28

playing the Steelstones in my Pittsburgh

11:30

list. Um.

11:33

Alright Liam, yeah, what about the,

11:35

were you gonna ask Caden about the Snorlax

11:37

Pidgeot

11:37

yes, I was.

11:38

Did you look at those lists, Liam? I mean, they're basically

11:41

the same. I think there might be one or two cards off.

11:45

Yeah, uh, deck

11:47

is really fun, like, I think it's

11:49

like, it's one of the like, few

11:51

control decks that I've played recently

11:53

that actually feels like it slows

11:56

every other deck down. Like, where

11:58

like, you know, you can actually stop

12:01

them from like attacking every turn until like,

12:04

uh, you win the game. Like, they might miss attacks

12:06

or something like that. It does,

12:09

you know, like, in return, though, you lose the ability to

12:11

attack and like... You

12:13

know, uh, make progress like Reggie or

12:15

like, um, torment

12:17

locks or what you, you lose attacking

12:19

options to make progress. So like your,

12:22

your end game does become a little bit worse. Even

12:24

if you do like buy time, you, you don't

12:27

do as much with that time. Um,

12:30

tech is like, so

12:32

it's, it's fun. I don't, I don't think

12:34

it's actually good. Like, I don't, I don't

12:36

think you should be guardy. says

12:39

you can, but like, I don't know what you do

12:41

if they just like throw 5 energy on an Arcana Gardevoir

12:44

and just start smacking. Like, I

12:46

don't think there's actually like a real response

12:48

to that. Um,

12:50

I feel like you just have to get lucky with, um,

12:54

An Eraqus. Where it's like, oh, you Eraqus

12:56

and hit their Manaphy or Ninja. Like, that's, that's

12:58

it, right?

12:59

because of Iono, they can like, they

13:02

get all their waters in their hand with like Ultra Ball

13:04

and trade and stuff, and then they just, um,

13:07

yeah, the Iono went to the bottom and they never see

13:09

it the rest of the game. Oh,

13:11

they can also just refine it, no?

13:13

No, no,

13:13

Echohorn,

13:14

Horn. Yeah, Horn.

13:15

Oh, oh, duh, yeah. Mm.

13:17

But yeah, like, also Mirage Step makes it feel way

13:19

worse as well, because now they run, like,

13:21

way more than enough, um, Psychic types

13:23

to fill their bench consistently. So, like,

13:25

Erika's feels really hard to, to get, pull

13:28

off. And they get, like, a full setup without

13:30

drawing cards, like, incrementally. Like, they

13:32

draw zero cards and then they draw six. It's like,

13:35

um, so, like, yeah, Erika's feels

13:37

really hard to pull off, uh, with Mirage

13:39

Step. And then, yeah, you

13:41

don't have, like, a great way of stopping them from taking KOs. So,

13:43

like, people are, like... Say

13:46

it's like okay, but if

13:48

they like manage their energy well, like I can't

13:50

see you ever winning that matchup.

13:52

I'm looking at, I'm

13:55

looking at their matchups. Um,

13:57

it looks like lots

14:00

of ties against Guardi. Um,

14:04

looks like they, they just... They

14:07

just decided to tie

14:09

Yeah, it was probably like the opponent like misplayed game

14:11

one or something and then they lost game

14:13

two and then they didn't like game three finish. Something

14:17

like that. That's what I guess.

14:19

yeah, um, yeah,

14:23

they had a combined record of

14:25

2 0 2 against Garde.

14:29

Yeah.

14:37

um, actually, no, two, two ties.

14:40

The two ties were in late rounds. The

14:44

two wins in early rounds.

14:46

Yeah.

14:48

Alright, Toronto.

14:50

Here, just a second, I want to talk about, I want to talk about two other lists

14:52

really quickly. Top four colorless Lugia.

14:56

He runs Weirdeer, he runs Mew,

14:58

he runs Luxray,

14:59

I think that's fine. Um, the 4 boss,

15:01

we saw that from at

15:04

least Charlie Kerr the

15:06

week before. I think one of the other

15:08

people also played 4 boss. Um.

15:13

It seems like a lot of people are choosing between

15:15

Luxray or Radiant Charizard,

15:17

um, but you could play both as

15:19

well. The, the big thing that I

15:22

really like in this list is the

15:24

fourth gift energy. All

15:26

four of the Lugias

15:28

that made top eight at Sacramento

15:31

only played three gift, but like

15:33

four gift just seems so good. Like, you just want to gift

15:35

like every... Uh,

15:39

so that, that's like my biggest

15:41

thing when I look at this list.

15:43

Dude, I think the 1v guard is like a little

15:45

sus, bro. I don't know. At least

15:48

in my games it keeps coming up, like, any

15:50

time I play the 1v guard, I'm like, oh

15:52

man, like, I might be a little bad here. Oh,

15:55

the 1v guard, like... You

15:57

know, all my KOs just come so easy. Um,

16:00

What are you, what are you V guarding against in this

16:02

meta? Like,

16:04

I, I, I don't know. Oh, I like... Alright,

16:07

yeah, I guess it would be like Muse,

16:09

Zoshens, um, Muse, Zoshens,

16:12

Mew, yeah Mew, Mew is, Mew's

16:14

a really good point,

16:16

Um, yeah, I don't know, like,

16:18

I, I don't, I don't play like, um,

16:22

a ton of on meta stuff when I'm testing on live,

16:25

so like, it might come up more than

16:27

like it should, but yeah. I, I feel like it

16:29

comes up a bunch. Um, but yeah,

16:32

Forgift is really good as well. I think Forbost

16:34

is also like a must, like at least in colorless Lugia,

16:36

because you have to go like around stuff

16:38

so often.

16:40

mm hmm,

16:40

and it also is like, uh,

16:43

definitely like a big bump in the

16:45

Gardevoir matchup. Okay, hold on. I

16:47

just

16:48

yeah, very, that's like the, I mean like,

16:50

as a Gardevoir player, I see the four gith,

16:53

and I'm like, damn.

16:55

Yeah.

16:56

and I wanted to get your reaction to

16:58

Fabian's Top 8 Guardi List.

17:02

I mean, it's like the

17:05

same thing as most other

17:08

Guardi lists, it's not too crazy, um,

17:11

Champion Festival I think actually makes

17:13

no sense at all, I don't, I

17:15

don't really know why you would play that over...

17:18

There's so many good stadiums you could

17:20

play, like, uh,

17:23

like League HQ or Second Collapsed

17:26

or a Sinnoh all make

17:28

more sense for sure than Champions

17:30

Festival. Um, the

17:32

Zinnias, I, like, I,

17:35

initially, I think probably

17:37

everyone, including myself, was like, that's obviously

17:40

worse than a worker or research.

17:42

Uh, but, I saw Fabian's

17:45

Twitter post, he had, he had

17:47

like a little thread today about

17:49

Yes, we wisely held off on recording the pod

17:51

until he was able to tweet why he played

17:53

Yeah, and it actually has a lot of good reasoning

17:56

to it. I don't think I would include it myself,

17:58

but I don't, um, I don't judge

18:00

him anymore for playing it. I

18:04

think it, it, I, I, I see the

18:06

merit for sure. Um,

18:09

I still really like the, uh,

18:10

Research, bro. easily see

18:12

it being better than Worker because I don't respect

18:15

Path. I'd only play three Stadium Bumps.

18:18

Um, but, yeah,

18:20

that card is stinky research, dude. Especially if you're not playing the

18:22

Luminian, like, I think

18:25

Yeah. That's the thing, like, Luminion's

18:27

broken, dude. Like, how, uh, like, yeah.

18:30

Like, I would not play Zinnias over

18:32

a Luminion. Like, Luminion is

18:34

so good, dude.

18:38

Yeah, I don't think I'd play Guardian without Luminian.

18:40

Like, I think it's an addiction.

18:42

One thing I do agree with, though, is if

18:44

I wanted to play four path outs,

18:46

like two stadiums, the vacuum, and

18:48

then something else, most

18:50

people go for the Worker, but I think

18:53

I would play, like, a third stadium.

18:55

So I do agree with that concept.

18:58

Um,

18:59

Worker actually feels so bad.

19:00

dude, Worker sucks. It's so bad. Like, actually,

19:03

I was watching I was watching,

19:05

uh, Brent Tonneson was on stream one

19:07

of the rounds in Lil, and

19:11

I think he was playing against Mew. I'd

19:14

have to go back and check, but I think it was against Mew,

19:17

and it was like a,

19:19

a matchup where you would think that Worker

19:21

would be really good. And

19:24

I think game one, it was like, okay,

19:26

Worker was fine, but game two, he opened

19:28

Worker in his opening hand, and he just had

19:30

to Worker for three cards, and

19:32

it felt so bad,

19:35

and I was like, imagine if this just drew him seven

19:37

cards, he would just be

19:39

able to play the game, and he

19:41

just wasn't able to play the game because

19:44

it drew him three cards instead of seven. So,

19:46

uh, that, like, I saw that,

19:48

and I was like, okay, to research, for

19:51

sure.

19:53

Yeah,

19:53

Xenios. See, so if you had a Xenia in that situation,

19:56

I assume the other guy went full bench because he's playing Mew,

20:00

and he would have been like, now my hand looks

20:02

like a rockstar, look at all these cards.

20:05

Yeah, Zinnia, I'd play Zinnia over Worker because

20:08

I want to draw cards, but I'd play

20:10

Research over Zinnia because I want to draw cards.

20:13

Is that, is that always correct? Like, I appreciated

20:15

his comment that, like, uh,

20:18

uh, you know, sometimes you

20:20

have a piece in hand, and you're looking for the second piece,

20:23

and in that way, like, playing a research feels bad,

20:25

because you're like, well, I got this piece. And,

20:28

and I recognize, like, I mean, it is,

20:31

it is the year 2023, and

20:34

you... Like, you're, the

20:37

first chance you have to play a supporter, the other

20:39

guy's already benched a lot of Pokemon because

20:41

he played, like, his double battle VIP, and like,

20:43

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, like, did this whole thing.

20:47

Is Researcher's better?

20:50

Uh, yeah. Like,

20:53

mean research is insane. So like here, here's

20:55

another argument for research. Like, the

20:57

matchups that you're trying to play, that you

20:59

want to play Worker in, like the reason you're playing Worker

21:02

is for Path matchups, right? But,

21:05

all the Path matchups also look to

21:07

Judge you or Iono you. So,

21:10

which card would you rather draw off Judge?

21:13

Worker or Research? Like

21:15

Research, for sure! Because

21:18

you get to draw seven cards instead of

21:20

three. So

21:21

yeah.

21:23

No, no, just like, so I feel like even in

21:26

the matchups where Worker is good, like Research

21:28

is often just better anyway.

21:30

And then in the research, and in the matchups where Worker

21:33

is not as, not good, Research

21:35

is obviously better. So like, I don't know,

21:37

that just like, is what makes sense to me.

21:41

Yeah, I, I also, one

21:43

of the things in, um, that,

21:46

like, uh, that thread was, like, four,

21:49

four path bumps is a much, is a

21:51

must. I, like, completely disagree.

21:53

I, I think three is plenty. Like, as long

21:55

as you don't draw. Um,

21:57

like, two stadiums off of Joie

21:59

J and Research, like, you're

22:01

fine. Like, three

22:04

is so many, especially because a lot of the, a lot

22:06

of the path decks, like, I guess an exception

22:08

would be, like, TTMU, um, but

22:10

at least, like, Lost on Tina, like, Lost

22:13

on Tina is, like, a matchup where

22:15

it feels like you can literally go, you can lose,

22:17

like, every single one of your stadium bumps

22:19

but one, and as long as you just, like,

22:22

bump, bump the path and then Iono,

22:24

they never hit another stadium bump and they just, like, lose

22:27

the game. Like... Yeah, like,

22:30

a lot of the path decks, I think, just like, um,

22:33

you just play Iono, and then they won't hit a path again,

22:35

like, for Arceus and Tina. Um,

22:38

so like, yeah, you don't really need that many stadium

22:40

bumps. Like, you don't have to bump it every single

22:43

Yeah. So,

22:45

I'm looking at his, uh, Brent's

22:49

thing from Lil, and it clearly wasn't Mew,

22:51

because he didn't play against a Mew. So I'd have to go

22:53

back and see what, uh,

22:56

what he played against on stream.

22:59

But it was definitely a Path deck. Maybe it was, uh, maybe

23:01

it was Tina? But

23:03

I feel like he tied or lost, so maybe it was,

23:07

maybe it was Round 3? Because

23:09

he lost to a Tina Round 3. Hmm,

23:14

I don't know, I'd have to go back and look. But

23:18

it was definitely a deck with Path.

23:22

I just went to PTCG Legends to try to see if

23:24

they gave me access to the streams, but apparently

23:27

they just linked to the YouTube files instead of

23:29

giving me a list of the streamed games. Those

23:32

slackers at PTCG Legends.

23:35

turn.

23:36

Okay, it

23:36

All right,

23:37

It was Tina. I just looked up the,

23:39

uh, yeah, it was the very first game

23:41

that was streamed. Yes, it was Tina.

23:43

Steena? There we go. So,

23:46

so, Mike, does any of this, uh, change

23:49

you just playing, like, towards 60 at

23:51

Tarantho?

23:53

Um, I mean, I'm gonna play probably

23:55

58 or 59, maybe 60 of the cards.

23:57

I'm really just debating. Like,

24:01

the real, I could see changing

24:03

like one other card, but probably the only

24:05

thing I'm debating is the,

24:08

one of the stadium spots. Like, I'm

24:10

definitely playing Vacuum, that card's really good.

24:12

I'm definitely playing Collapsed, obviously that's

24:14

very good. And so the question is, do

24:16

I play Artisan, do I play Templar Sinnoh,

24:19

do I play a League HQ? Um,

24:21

I think all of those are pretty reasonable. Um,

24:25

could play two League HQ, if I really wanted to

24:27

go hard into Lost Box, but I don't. I

24:30

don't know what I would drop for a fourth stadium.

24:32

Could run like Sinnoh and League HQ. But

24:36

like again, I don't know what I would drop like

24:39

Every other card is, is really, really good in the

24:41

deck. Um, so, I

24:43

don't really want to play Artisan because

24:45

it's really a bad

24:48

counter stadium against Lost Box. Like,

24:50

you want to counter their Beach Court or

24:52

their Pokestop, but giving them Artisan

24:54

is, like, argue arguably just better

24:56

for them because you Iono them and then they just have immediate

24:58

access to another Sableye. Uh,

25:01

so, I want to play, like, a different

25:03

stadium, I think, than, than Artisan. I just

25:05

don't know. Which one I'll decide on. Sinnoh

25:07

is obviously very good against Lugia, but

25:10

it's actively bad against

25:12

other Path to the Peak decks, like

25:14

Maraadon and Mew. You really

25:17

don't want to be bumping their path with your Temple

25:19

of Sinnoh because it shuts off your reversal energy.

25:22

So, it like makes one matchup better,

25:24

but makes... Other matchups weaker. Um,

25:27

League HQ is like, fine. It's like,

25:29

not that great against Lost Box. It's

25:31

okay if they don't know that you play it.

25:33

They, they'll burn like a bunch of stadiums

25:35

and lost vacuums. Uh,

25:37

but that only works for game one. Maybe that's fine

25:40

because you can just play a really long game one. Um,

25:43

it has marginal utility

25:45

in other matchups as well. Like, it

25:47

can be okay against Lugia, obviously

25:50

not as good as Sinnoh, and it can be good

25:52

against Miraidon. As well, uh,

25:55

probably second best matchup it's, it's

25:57

in is Miraidon. So, that's,

25:59

like, really the big things that I'm debating

26:02

right now.

26:03

I dig it. Guys,

26:06

any, uh, any words of wisdom

26:08

for Mike before he goes to Tarantho?

26:12

Yeah, I heard Playtowards60 there, bro, but

26:15

Artisan, Artisan Vacuum is like, That's,

26:19

like, also really good in the Lost

26:21

Fox matchup. Like, being

26:23

able to search Cress and then bump the Artisan

26:25

the same turn. It's like, I

26:28

found it to be pretty big, because you're

26:30

down to 2 fog crystal at this point. Um,

26:34

it's like standard, but yeah. Having Artisan

26:36

Vacuum is really good for searching out Cress,

26:38

and then you get to play, like, good cards.

26:42

Okay, here's a question for you. I was talking

26:44

to some other prominent players

26:47

today, uh, about Gardevoir. I

26:49

don't wanna say who they are and, and, and

26:51

give away what they're gonna play, but they're gonna play Gardevoir.

26:54

And they are trying to convince

26:56

me that third

26:58

fog crystal is better than... The

27:01

fourth level of all, and I said no way.

27:04

What do you think?

27:05

I think if you cut the artisan, maybe. If you

27:08

don't, fourth level ball. No,

27:12

it's always fourth level ball. What am I

27:14

No, yeah, it's always

27:15

always fourth level ball. Oh my God. Disgusting.

27:19

Like, how often,

27:22

Step now. Uh, yeah,

27:24

how often in your first two turns

27:26

are you looking for a

27:30

Ralts or a Curlia or a Mew

27:32

versus looking for

27:34

a Psychic Energy? Well, I guess we

27:36

can actually just focus in on turn 2. How

27:39

often on turn 2 are you looking for a Curlia

27:41

versus a Psychic Energy? I

27:43

feel like the answer is usually Curlia.

27:45

Yeah, dude, like, oh my god, bro.

27:47

Yeah.

27:48

These are the decisions that, like, you

27:50

know, when somebody says, oh my

27:53

god, I brick so hard this tournament, you look,

27:55

and you're like, of course you brick, dude. You

27:57

open with a Fog Crystal route instead

27:59

of Level Ball. And, like, then you

28:01

miss Mirage Step, and then you didn't set up, and then

28:03

you lost. And, like, it

28:05

wasn't the RNG that got you, it's because you played the bad

28:08

cards, bro.

28:09

Yeah, I mean like I understand

28:12

the logic, like getting enough

28:14

psychic energy in the

28:15

Fog Crystal's great.

28:17

It can be a bottleneck for the deck, but I think

28:19

a bigger bottleneck is the, is

28:22

finding Corleas, turn two, turn three.

28:25

Yeah, Level Ball's a great card, bro.

28:27

Yeah.

28:28

Curlia is like... I've heard nothing but good things about

28:30

what happens when you put down Curlias and you're playing Gardevoir.

28:34

Yeah.

28:35

Every person I talk to tells me when

28:37

I got out a bunch of Curlias, I did super

28:39

good.

28:41

Exactly. And I think, and I think you're right that

28:43

like, the fourth level ball is

28:45

even more important with the Mirage Step

28:47

now. Like, you just, you need to Mirage Step

28:49

turn two in so many matchups, and level

28:53

ball it to do that more consistently.

28:55

Alright, are we ready to talk about Mike's

28:58

hot takes?

29:00

I'm already, I'm already, all

29:02

ears,

29:03

Yep.

29:06

We should have some special music

29:08

for this. Duhhh, it's Mike's Hot Takes.

29:11

Hot takes, hot takes, hot takes.

29:12

That'd be

29:13

done these in, uh, a

29:15

couple sets, but

29:18

talking to my, actually wait, before we do

29:20

these, I want to shout out, I

29:22

ran my first pre release this past weekend,

29:25

and I have not attended,

29:27

well, I haven't, I still have not played in

29:29

a pre release. In like 15

29:31

years, but this was the first pre release that

29:33

I attended because I ran it in

29:36

15 years. Um,

29:39

and it was okay. I think if

29:42

I wasn't running it, I would not

29:44

have gone. Um,

29:48

but

29:48

Mike's sales pitch for his next pre release, folks.

29:52

it's just not my type of

29:54

thing, you know? Um.

29:56

is it not your type of thing?

29:59

It's I mean, it's not competitive

30:02

at all like and and that's appealing

30:04

for a large chunk of people right but

30:06

like It's, like, not competitive

30:08

at all. You have very, very little

30:10

agency over your deck.

30:13

Um, like, you get,

30:15

you get, I don't know if you guys have played in a pre

30:17

release, but you get this 40 card deck,

30:20

and then you get four more packs, and then you build

30:22

a new 40 card deck. And,

30:24

uh, it's like, okay. Like,

30:26

for me, I actually did, um,

30:28

open one up and build a deck just

30:31

in case people wanted to play a game or two,

30:33

and I did play some games, but like, I opened up

30:36

the fire build. And

30:38

Battle Deck, it had four of

30:40

the Chi

30:43

Yu, uh, which is a decent

30:45

basic fire type, um, and it

30:47

just, it had four of those, and then I

30:49

opened up in my packs the Armour Rouge EX

30:52

and the Sharkadet. So, like, my deck was just,

30:54

like, four Chi Yu, one Armour

30:56

Rouge EX. EX, like 20 fire energies

30:59

and some trainers and I just smoked

31:01

like any game I played I just smoked everybody

31:04

like it Wasn't even close because I

31:06

opened up the like the best fire

31:08

EX Pokemon in my packs

31:11

and so like That's

31:14

just kind of how pre releases go

31:16

I think

31:18

That sounds about right.

31:20

Yeah There was the

31:22

mean, I recognize they introduced a whole build and

31:24

battle thing to try to make it less like

31:27

I pulled an EX, EX in 59 Energies,

31:29

I win every pre release, and,

31:31

uh, but like, it

31:33

didn't really fix it.

31:35

yeah,

31:35

I think it is

31:36

did you get one of the right four? If

31:38

so, you get a free dubs. If

31:40

you get an EX, you get even more dubs.

31:42

I don't know, I think it is leagues better than it used

31:44

to be, like, I remember old pre releases,

31:47

um, I mean, I'm never

31:49

gonna forget, I had this one pre release,

31:51

where I pulled

31:53

Lucario EX, and,

31:56

um, I played, I played

31:58

one Lucario EX, and whatever

32:00

it was, 39 fighting energy,

32:03

Hell, yeah

32:03

and I, and I did

32:05

not lose the game. It was not close.

32:07

that, dude, that Lucario was so good because it had, it had

32:10

three attacks and it, it ramped super well.

32:12

It was, like, one energy for some amount

32:14

and then, like, two energy for... More,

32:17

and then 3 energy for more, so like, you

32:19

just, you started hitting hard

32:21

really fast, and then you were like one shotting

32:23

everything by like turn 3.

32:25

Well, and that's, but even, even with the battle

32:27

build things, that Lucaria

32:29

would have been like that, cause it was like, if you

32:31

get one energy on there, you're knocking out whatever, whatever

32:33

like, sucky basics they have. If you

32:35

get a second energy, you're knocking out whatever stage ones they have.

32:37

If you get three energies on there, you're knocking out everything on the board.

32:40

well, yeah, but my point is I wouldn't have been able to run

32:43

one Lucario and like 39

32:45

fighting energy Because my Lucario

32:48

probably would have been knocked out

32:50

Yeah, yeah,

32:50

Yeah, dude, I...

32:51

the building battles.

32:53

yeah, that's true. That's

32:55

a good point, like there was a dude that

32:57

pulled an Ironhands EX and like,

32:59

you know, in this format Ironhands is probably

33:01

really broken, right? But, one

33:04

of the build and battle decks had a

33:06

thick Glyne of the Aegislash,

33:09

which can't be hit by EX Pokemon,

33:12

so he ran up into one of those

33:14

guys and, uh, did not have a good round.

33:18

Hehehehehehehehe Anyway, anyway, hot takes.

33:20

All right. So the reason that I mentioned that is I

33:22

haven't done the hot takes in a while, but some

33:25

of the local players, uh, in particular my

33:27

friend Patrick, shout out to Patrick, he

33:29

was like, yo, Mike, you gonna do a hot

33:32

takes for Paradox Rift? I was like... Alright,

33:34

you know what? Sure. So,

33:36

um, I posted on Twitter, if you haven't seen

33:38

it, go, go take a gander, um,

33:41

I posted three things and then, uh, kind of a bonus

33:43

one that you might have missed. So

33:45

my three hot takes. Number one, Lost

33:47

Box and Gardevoir are still tier one decks. Number

33:49

two, Chien Pao with Iron

33:52

Hands is worse than the

33:54

current Chien Pao list that

33:56

we've been seeing, uh,

33:59

be successful. Number three, Earthen

34:01

Vessel, which is the... Moderately

34:04

Improved Professor's Letter is the

34:06

card from this set that has the most

34:08

copies of it. In top 8 of

34:11

LAIC. And then the bonus

34:13

one that I posted a little bit after

34:16

is that if

34:19

Gardevoir and I

34:21

didn't say this but Slash Lossbox if those

34:24

decks drop from Tier 1, it's not going

34:26

to be because of Iron Hands, but because

34:28

of Iron Valiant,

34:31

which I think is a very good card. So,

34:34

those are some of my thoughts. Unsurprisingly,

34:39

the first person to comment With

34:42

Jake Earhart dissenting on

34:44

my opinions. So, what

34:47

do we think, guys?

34:49

um, I mean, I'm gonna throw out my

34:52

I've got one singular hot take that

34:54

either is gonna be, like, the most incredible

34:57

prediction of the next, like,

34:59

two or three metas, or,

35:01

like, way off base. I think

35:04

Iron Valiant is gonna be a way more disruptive

35:06

card than Iron Hands. Um,

35:08

I think this card is, like,

35:11

meta warping and breaking in

35:13

honestly more ways than Iron

35:15

Hands. This is my,

35:18

this is my hot take for Paradox Rift.

35:20

Um, I think that, you know,

35:22

people say that Iron Hands

35:24

is, like, really easy to set up and whatever,

35:27

and I, one, I don't know if that's

35:29

fully true, and two, I think the bigger problem is, um,

35:32

in a lot of matchups, it's just trading even, and,

35:36

um, Iron Valiant, on the other hand, uh,

35:38

is very much not trading even. Uh,

35:42

this, I think, I think iron valiant

35:44

is gonna be a substantially more

35:46

oppressive deck for, or

35:49

a suppressive, a substantially more

35:51

suppressive card for decks like

35:53

Lost Box and Guardi than Iron

35:55

Hands is.

35:56

Yeah. Okay, so we agree. Yeah, I,

35:58

I, I agree with that. I think Iron Valiant,

36:01

like, has a potential to really box

36:03

out these low HP decks, slash,

36:05

you know, evolving decks pretty

36:07

significantly.

36:09

I do not at all, like, yeah,

36:12

I would have told you, um,

36:14

that I thought Iron Valley, it was okay, but

36:17

now that we're talking about it, and I spent another 10 seconds

36:19

thinking about it. That card is terrible.

36:22

Did you know Iron Valiant has Floatstone and Muscle

36:25

Band in one card? Did you know that?

36:28

it has Floatstone and Muscleman? Wait, how does it

36:30

have Floatstone? Oh, oh, it has the,

36:32

yeah, the 20 and No Retreat.

36:34

Yep.

36:34

Yeah, the No Retreat's really good. Um,

36:37

but, either way, I

36:39

like... You

36:42

tell me what the card does and it does an 80 snipe

36:44

if you hit 4 switch effects. Hmm,

36:47

that

36:48

you know you can run? Did you know you can run

36:50

Meta Cham with Iron Valiant and get

36:52

another turn of Iron Valet

36:54

terrible. I saw somebody say on Twitter, and

36:57

I'm realizing this is completely true, like, Lost

36:59

Box decks struggle to hit four Comfey

37:02

on turn one, and you're trying to hit

37:05

four Iron Valiance on turn one, and then into a

37:07

Medicham! Like,

37:08

No, I'm not trying to hit four. I'm

37:11

trying to hit, like, two

37:13

to hit two or three, you're gonna get blown off the board

37:15

if you're not taking KOs! They just evolve,

37:17

and then what?

37:20

What do you mean, against Guardian?

37:22

Yeah, sure, sure, yeah, yeah, Guardian. What

37:25

do you do against Garde? No, Garde actually

37:27

sounds like a horrible matchup. Yeah,

37:30

that sounds terrible. You've never KO'ed Garde

37:32

yet. You've never KO'ed

37:33

so there are, there are two

37:36

decks, there are two lists, there are two

37:38

Iron Valiant decks that I've seen floating

37:40

around. Um, which are,

37:43

which are Iron Valiant, and Iron

37:46

Valiant with, like, Urshifu

37:49

shenanigans. Um,

37:51

like, it needs to be heavily

37:54

supplemented if it's gonna

37:56

I, I, yes, I do not think you run

37:58

a, I'm not talking about you run

38:00

just a Iron Valiant deck.

38:03

I don't think that works. Just like how if you ran a

38:05

just Ironhands deck, that also

38:07

really isn't gonna work. Um, I

38:10

feel like the, I

38:13

feel like Iron Valiant though has the

38:15

potential to create

38:18

some, um, very, very

38:20

oppressive decks that have Like,

38:23

highly favored to auto win matchups

38:25

against Guardi and Lostbox.

38:28

Well, I don't think Lost Box and Guardia are real. Uh,

38:32

well, and like part of the other, uh,

38:34

you know, big question mark of this metagame is Chien

38:36

Pao and like how does Chien Pao do with

38:39

or without iron hands and I think

38:41

Iron Valiant Like, you might just box

38:43

Chi and Pao out, right? Like, you just kill

38:46

the Frigidbacks immediately. Um,

38:48

like, you might,

38:49

Axe, and then they evolve, and then they run your board.

38:52

I mean, you kill one, you met it, you met a Shaman,

38:54

and then you kill the next one. I don't

38:56

Oh yeah, buddy, we're hitting Medicham now. Oh my

38:58

god. Yep, we're hitting

39:00

Medicham turn one. Oh my god. The

39:02

deck isn't built around it, it's gonna be heavily supplemented,

39:05

but we're hitting Medicham turn one. Don't worry.

39:07

I, no, no, no, no. I think this deck,

39:10

um, has the potential

39:12

to, um, you know,

39:14

have a very favored Champa matchup

39:16

going first. I don't think you can pull off the, like, crazy,

39:18

I'm gonna wipe out all your Fridgebaxes. Going

39:20

second? No, of course not. Um, however,

39:22

I

39:23

the Iron Valiant is a

39:25

if you're playing like the Urshifu version, you can

39:27

still do the similar thing that Urshifu

39:29

is able to do against Chenpao that gives it,

39:31

basically, like a very heavily

39:33

favored matchup against Chenpao, which is, you know, you

39:36

just yo you set up

39:38

your damage, Yoggaloop the Manaphy, and then Urshifu

39:40

killed up killed any Vax

39:42

pieces on the board. And that

39:45

is kind of just game losing for Chenpao. Um,

39:47

I agree I agree

39:50

a lot with, um, your hot take,

39:52

Mike, about the

39:54

Ironhands version of Chenpao being

39:57

worse. I think Ironh real

40:00

matchup that I think Ironhands, like,

40:03

really helps with is Lugia. Um,

40:06

I think it is rea I think I, you

40:08

know, I read your reply to Jay I think you kind

40:10

of underplayed how helpful

40:12

it is in the Lugia matchup. Um, the Lugia

40:14

matchup is, like, very 50 50, maybe

40:17

slightly unfavored right now. I think Ironhands

40:19

makes it, like, quite, quite favored,

40:21

which might be reason and I do think it

40:24

helps. Um, quite a bit

40:26

against the,

40:28

against Lost Box, while, I

40:30

mean, theoretically at least keeping somewhat

40:33

of a similar Guardian matchup. Um,

40:36

so, for that reason it might be worth running.

40:38

But I think,

40:39

Silence.

40:39

I think it is not as, like, completely

40:42

broken as people make it out to be.

40:45

Well, let's dig into iron.

40:47

spots.

40:48

Sure, sure. Let's dig into Iron Hands a little bit.

40:50

So like, I think we can see

40:52

pretty easily how it can fit in Chi Pal.

40:55

Um, you know, you take the, the current list, you drop

40:57

the switches, you drop the colognes, you fit some iron

40:59

hand stuff, boom. You got a, you got an Iron

41:01

Hands Chi Powell deck. You can see kind

41:03

of how it fit in a little bit.

41:06

Like, uh, I don't

41:08

love the idea of playing ni in Lucia, but I

41:10

can see how it fits. You know, you, you take colorless,

41:12

Lucia, you drop a couple energy, play a couple

41:14

Earth and Betts. Um, play an Ironhands

41:16

or two, play some Lightning Energies, okay,

41:18

you got, you got an Ironhands, Lugia. What

41:20

is Ironhands getting played in besides those two

41:22

decks? Like, I just can't see

41:25

where else it fits. Maybe, maybe

41:27

you play in a Lost Box deck, but what are you gonna do? You're gonna

41:30

double Mirage Gate to your Ironhands? Like,

41:32

what?

41:32

that's terrible.

41:34

Like, that

41:34

I mean, I mean,

41:35

right?

41:37

No, like,

41:37

all, I think you would run inm, write-on, I don't know

41:39

how, what matchups it actually changes inm

41:41

write-on. Um,

41:44

What are you, how are you pirating up a Miridon? You get, like,

41:47

you have to hit, like, a double Generator

41:49

and, and a Flaaffy out? Like, ugh,

41:51

well, you, I would run an XT share

41:53

if I'm, if it really helps and I'm

41:55

running it, I would

41:56

bench that thing, bro. Pre benching that thing

41:58

with the XP shares,

42:00

Yeah, I'm just going to boss it up, kill it.

42:02

Yeah.

42:03

I don't

42:03

I mean, I, I think it depends what matchups it's

42:05

helping with. I, I would need to think about it. I don't know

42:08

Meite on that.

42:09

Yeah, I mean like, okay, yeah.

42:11

Okay, maybe it gets played in Maraadon. But like Maraadon,

42:13

I, yeah, I think, I think more to

42:15

your point, Kayden, is like what matchups

42:17

does actually help? Like, I cannot

42:20

see it helping enough against a Lost

42:22

Box type of deck to make the matchup favored.

42:25

Like, like there's no, there's no

42:27

way that'll happen,

42:28

That's a crazy statement from somebody who says

42:30

Lost Fox and Guardia are still gonna be tier

42:32

1, when if you hit with that thing on turn

42:34

2, you just win against both of them!

42:36

Right,

42:37

there is no shot you're hitting

42:39

with that turn one or turn two,

42:41

like there's no way.

42:42

This format is

42:43

And Maridon.

42:45

I bring that to a tournament, bro.

42:47

Like what are you doing? Like Maridon, you're, you're,

42:49

you're finding it, attaching to it

42:51

I'm gonna find a way to power that thing up on turn

42:53

2 every game. I'm gonna ruin

42:55

the format, bro. That thing is gonna be stinky.

42:59

also, wait, like, if I'm playing Turbo,

43:02

if I'm playing Turbo Lostbox, I'm just trading

43:04

even into the Iron Hands

43:06

Yeah, what if I find a V Guard? What if I find a V

43:08

Guard, Brody?

43:09

So are you playing, are you playing Lugia

43:11

now?

43:12

Who knows? Maybe it's the Lugia version. I

43:14

don't know. Even

43:16

if you do get, like, Dragonite KO it, bro.

43:19

What if I KO the Dragonite and then I hands the turn

43:21

after that, bro?

43:23

I think, I

43:23

I'm gonna IRA

43:24

Right, my point is, my point is, Lostbox

43:26

can do that exact same thing with

43:29

cards like D Knight. Like, you're just

43:31

trading two for two at that point.

43:33

No, no, no, no, no, because I take

43:35

the first one, because when I KO the one

43:38

prizer, I take two prizes. And

43:40

when you KO a one prizer on turn one or something,

43:42

you take one prize. Hey,

43:45

Iron Hands is stinky for the trading. Like,

43:47

like, that's, that's not even debatable. Iron

43:50

Hands will, like, uptrade versus everything if you can swing

43:52

with it turn two. Like, that's just

43:54

a fact.

43:54

That's a big

43:55

Whether, whether or not you can do

43:57

four energy cards.

43:59

But, but given that that card literally outtrades

44:01

everything, I'll find a way, bro. Thanks

44:03

for watching!

44:04

I mean,

44:04

a way.

44:05

of Unturned are there,

44:06

I know people have said on Twitter they're gonna play, like, Thorin

44:09

and Ironhands and Gardevoir.

44:11

That

44:12

faster than that, bro! I'm hitting on turn two!

44:15

I mean, that sounds really bad.

44:16

Yeah, that's not terrible.

44:18

Unturned too, he's a goat.

44:20

right, so, so, so,

44:23

Liam,

44:24

That's the kind

44:24

are you, are you running, are you running Chimpo?

44:27

Ironhand's next format?

44:28

I have no clue. I'm gonna find a way to power that thing

44:30

up on turn two every time. It's gonna be unstoppable.

44:33

And it's gonna win the game in, like, three turns. I'll

44:37

find a way. I, like, I don't, I don't even know.

44:39

Maybe, I think there's, like, Yeah,

44:41

I, I have no clue, bro. I'll find

44:43

a way. Maybe it's even, like, the

44:45

Enerjet, Enerjet thing. Uh,

44:48

tool hitter that Liam is. He's going to go from, like,

44:50

stall player to, like, fastest player

44:52

in the format.

44:54

I do want to note, taking an extra

44:56

prize has not always been

44:59

a horribly broken mechanic.

45:02

Like, it has been done

45:04

before in a manner, like, I remember,

45:07

I remember, um, everyone was making

45:09

a huge fit, you know, and of course this is a long

45:11

time ago, but when Lugia EX came out,

45:14

um,

45:14

That was Liam's deck. That was Liam's

45:16

deck when he was like 7 year old junior, man.

45:19

Don't be messing with Overflow.

45:21

I remember when that card got revealed,

45:23

and everyone was like, screaming

45:26

about how broken this card was, and like, you take

45:28

an extra prize, and how it was just gonna like,

45:30

break the game and break the format. Like,

45:33

the card was going for like, six, or for

45:35

sixty dollars during pre release

45:37

season. Um, it was the hype

45:39

of everything, um, and

45:42

it just, it ended up, you know. Like,

45:45

it

45:45

very mediocre.

45:47

We didn't start playing until the Tins came out, but

45:50

Liam was the king of like, 4 Deoxys,

45:52

Choice Band, Chorus Machine, Chorus Machine,

45:55

I just took 3 prizes on turn 2. What?

45:59

Yeah, I think

45:59

yeah,

45:59

like, the only thing I knew how to do, was, like, go

46:01

for the Giga Nuts on turn two.

46:03

That way, we only had one strategy.

46:05

I

46:07

yeah, but my point is that, like, um,

46:10

it's very easy to look at Take

46:12

an Extra Prize and be like, how is there any

46:14

world where this is not, like,

46:17

just horribly, like, game

46:20

breaking, and I think it is important

46:22

to recognize that, like, You know, it,

46:25

it, it has not always been the case

46:28

that it's, it's game breaking,

46:30

if that

46:30

people don't value Yoga

46:32

but you just named like a card that has

46:34

the abstract,

46:35

Yeah. You, like, you just named a card that's like filled

46:37

with like extra restriction. Like that

46:40

card was mid, it was against like, yeah,

46:43

it had no, had no, um, it, it was like

46:45

filled with like a, an ex format.

46:47

Like, I think, like obviously you weren't like one

46:49

hitting, uh, evil towels

46:51

or, um, IANS

46:53

and Gen X and whatever. Like, I, I

46:55

don't

46:56

No, you were! You were going for Deoxys

46:58

going for the di No, no, no. All right, then like.

47:01

Muscle

47:02

I can see how that card would not be amazing

47:04

in that format. You think about Iron

47:06

Hands in this format, you think about

47:08

how it attacks on turn 2, it outtrades

47:11

everything, how it has 230 HP,

47:13

it hits for 160, it has like literally

47:16

Snorlax level stats, and it's Lightning

47:18

type, that card is like, every

47:21

good attribute on every card that's

47:23

been printed in like the last 2 years is

47:25

on that card.

47:26

well, that's a wild statement.

47:29

230 HP,

47:32

Alright, well we'll see in the next few weeks. Um,

47:34

I do have one other, one,

47:37

TAKE EXTRA PRIZE! That

47:37

I have one other somewhat hot take that

47:39

didn't make the list but I'm curious on your guys

47:42

thoughts and then we can wrap it up. I

47:44

think Regis could make a comeback with Earthen

47:46

Vessel. Hmm, Regis

47:49

seems pretty, Regis gets around the Iron

47:51

Hands, BS. It doesn't get one

47:53

shot by, right? Yeah, it doesn't

47:55

get one shot by Iron Hands, none of them do. And

47:58

I feel like with Earthen Vessel you can play different basic

48:00

energy, you get some Discardian in there.

48:02

I don't know, seems pretty good to me.

48:06

And one second, let me, let me read you some text, bro.

48:09

I hadn't thought about this.

48:11

It says, once during your turn, if you have Regirock,

48:13

Regice, Registeel, Regieleki, and

48:16

Regidrago in play, you may attach

48:18

three energy cards from your discard pile to one of your pokes. Alright.

48:22

That card is terrible. It

48:24

doesn't matter how much support it gets, it doesn't matter

48:27

that it's made top 8s before, that card

48:31

I get to one shot your iron hands though, Regirock's

48:34

coming in, smacking you.

48:37

is terrible. You bench 0

48:39

engine Pokemon, and

48:41

you find the right 3 energy

48:43

to get in the discard, you're playing a bunch of other ones, you find the right

48:46

3 energy to get in the discard, and you put

48:48

6 Pokemon on your bench, then

48:50

you can finally take chaos. Dude, I

48:52

was watching a stream from like last year,

48:55

Reggie's was on it, dude. It didn't attack

48:57

for like the first three turns in scoop, and then it didn't

48:59

attack for like the first three turns in Scoop, like That

49:04

is terrible, dude.

49:07

It also, it also, I mean, it probably takes an awful

49:09

Zard matchup.

49:11

yeah. It takes an

49:12

I, I don't know

49:13

an awful guard matchup. That's what, uh,

49:16

yeah.

49:18

So, probably not, but, I,

49:21

Oh,

49:22

Like no,

49:22

yeah.

49:23

it, it, it turns out that like that card

49:25

is just bad because you can read the card and you can tell it.

49:29

yeah. I stand, I stand with Mike. Ironhand's

49:33

gonna be, I mean, it's gonna be... Good,

49:35

it's going to be in the meta, it's going to exist, it's

49:37

going to be a force, but I

49:39

don't think it's going to be as game

49:41

breaking as

49:43

I don't even think, like, a middle ground is possible

49:45

for that card, bro. It's either it can

49:47

be powered up and it's going to outtrade everything, or

49:49

it can't be powered up and it's not going to outtrade

49:51

anything. It's like,

49:53

Okay, I don't know about that either. Like, I think in,

49:56

you know, I think there are

49:57

I think if it's at the point where it's like, you,

50:00

I think if it's at the point where you sometimes

50:02

power it up with, like, Maridon at the end of the

50:04

game, nobody good is

50:06

going to play that card.

50:09

No, but you could run it in Shenpao, you

50:11

know, you're, even if you're getting

50:13

it powered up like turn

50:15

three, or even in Lugia, you know, let's say you're not

50:17

getting it powered up turn two, let's say you're

50:19

Yeah, dude, no, like, if it's not

50:21

running, no, no,

50:22

potentially good to run.

50:24

yeah, the deck is not a serious deck. It's like as serious

50:26

as, like, Miraida is right now. Like, it's

50:29

a thing, people sometimes bring it, you

50:31

know, you talk, you talk to, like, any

50:33

competitive player, and they will tell

50:35

you that they're not going to touch that deck with a tentacle,

50:38

like,

50:38

I mean, time will tell, we'll see how IronhandZX pans

50:41

out,

50:44

I am glad I'm not going to LAIC. Cause,

50:47

I'm glad I don't have to figure this

50:50

stuff out myself, I'll just let other, I'll

50:52

let Tord figure it out.

50:54

Liam, if you were going to LAIC, would you be just

50:56

all in on breaking the format with

50:58

iron hands?

50:59

Yeah, probably. Uh, like,

51:02

you know, Jake

51:05

is like, oh my gosh, we, we

51:07

need to find a counter, but like, you

51:09

know, I was telling him, like, the

51:12

easiest thing to do is to take

51:14

the card that's absolutely insane

51:17

and just swing with it every turn. Like,

51:21

work, infinite

51:23

profit. Like, yeah, I

51:25

said this in our Discord as well,

51:27

dude. I'm gonna be pulling a Regan

51:29

Wretloth, and just taking an absolutely

51:32

insane deck, and running it down every tournament,

51:34

and seeing what happens. That's

51:38

a great strategy. That's

51:40

I. I agree, I agree, it's a very

51:42

good strategy. I'm just skeptical

51:44

whether or not Iron Hands is going to make

51:46

the splash you think it is. Um, if

51:49

we want to throw

51:49

You can look at that card, and you know that card is amazing.

51:53

I think it is a, I think it is quite

51:55

a good card. Um, I'm not sure if it's actually

51:57

the best card from this set. Um, I

52:00

don't

52:00

dude, Jake is actually gonna be like, such a massive

52:02

clown if he's wrong, bro. Like, I

52:05

broke my promise because this is, uh, like,

52:07

the apocalypse. Ugh! That's

52:09

like,

52:09

but I will say, I will say. If

52:12

we want to throw in, and I guess, I guess, maybe

52:14

this, yeah, yeah,

52:16

this, if, I also

52:18

want to say, I agree with Mike,

52:21

um, Garde is still absolutely going

52:23

to be tier one. Um,

52:25

Lost Box, I could, I can see a world where Lost

52:27

Box falls off. Um, I think Guardia

52:30

is without a doubt gonna be Tier 1.

52:32

Dude, Lostbox is the deck that, like, wouldn't

52:35

fall off. Like, Gardi is the deck that can fall

52:37

off right now because it's like, It

52:39

is obviously the slowest deck, um,

52:41

in the meta right now, and like, if

52:44

a set like this gets released, the meta just speeds

52:46

up. And like, you know, whatever

52:48

causes it to speed up, uh,

52:50

you know, we can debate about that, but I think if

52:52

the meta does speed up, Guardian's the

52:54

one to fall off, and I don't see why that would be Lost Box.

52:57

Well no, I wanna note that my fears

52:59

about Lost Box have

53:01

nothing to do with Iron Hands and everything to do

53:03

with Iron Valiant.

53:05

And, Jirachi to some extent,

53:07

I guess, but,

53:09

Oh, yeah, I forgot about Tarashi.

53:11

yeah,

53:12

So, yeah, here's the thing I wanted to ask

53:14

you about the set, and I, you know, we've not done

53:16

a set review, I haven't looked at all the cards in the set,

53:19

like, It seems like, like,

53:21

what interests me about this is, I feel like this

53:24

is the first time in

53:26

a bit, in a hot minute, that

53:28

Pokemon's released a set where I think people look

53:30

at it and the best cards are not

53:33

a, like, pre built,

53:35

like, parasitic deck that they're just handing you.

53:37

yeah, right, there's no, there's no Gardevoir EX,

53:40

there's

53:40

I think the

53:41

Chi and

53:41

would be Roaring Moon. Thanks

53:45

like obvious, here's what to play, right?

53:48

Yeah, yeah, like, like, where, you know, I think what's

53:50

interesting about this conversation is the,

53:52

the trick is, like, it's not obvious how people will

53:54

play the best cards. And,

53:56

like, uh, for the last couple

53:58

of sets, I feel like, I mean, for years,

54:01

at some level, Pokemon just, like, clubs

54:03

you over the head with, like, this is the set, this is

54:05

what you do with this set. Like, here's

54:07

the deck we're giving you in this set. Don't

54:09

be dumb.

54:12

Yeah, and that coupled with that,

54:14

the fact that we're getting this set basically the

54:16

exact same time as Japan. So we,

54:19

so, so we don't have any results

54:22

to go off of and it's just gonna be like, all

54:24

right, figure it out.

54:26

I agree. I honestly am, I

54:29

love this set so much. And

54:31

I, I am, I

54:34

still can't wait for when we rotate to

54:37

Scarlet Violet only. I think the

54:39

game is gonna be in a

54:41

fascinating and kind of... Hopefully,

54:44

Amazing State, but

54:48

that's a little ways off,

54:50

Yeah,

54:50

right? We have one more year before that, right?

54:52

we do. Yes. Because

54:55

like Sableye and stuff is in

54:57

with the next

54:58

right, right.

55:00

Yeah. All right. Let's

55:03

wrap it up.

55:04

that's the show. The Jon Pauls are

55:06

our outro. We'll be back next week to find out

55:08

how Mike did in Toronto.

55:10

And we will do a larger Paradox

55:12

Rift deep dive next week for sure.

55:15

I don't know how we could possibly do that with all

55:17

the, like, I don't know, 18 rounds you'll

55:20

have played? Alright,

55:23

we'll see everybody next week.