0:18

Hey this is true. And thank you for joining

0:21

us for a Tuesday edition of our

0:23

podcast. By those of you who listen

0:25

to this podcast or have read my

0:28

books or further to people who do

0:30

both listen to this bike s hand

0:32

read my books would be a mom

0:34

and my wife. I guess I am

0:37

fascinated by the human mind why people

0:39

do what they do. a drive in

0:41

or motivates or deters people. I.

0:43

Love psychology but I am not an

0:45

expert. I was pretty good at reading

0:48

a jury and no one word urban

0:50

it's resonates with. The. Jury in front

0:52

of me at the time, but not an expert.

0:55

On. A really serious topic. And

0:58

we need an expert Now We're lucky

1:00

because we have one today. nor guess

1:02

today. Is. A professor of psychology

1:04

and Neuroscience and director of the

1:06

Social Connection and Health Lab. At.

1:08

Brigham Young University. She's.

1:10

Also the founding scientific chair and board

1:13

member The U S Foundation for Social

1:15

Connection. And. The Global Initiative

1:17

on loneliness and connection. She's.

1:19

Also the lead scientific editor

1:21

for Us Surgeon General's Advisory.

1:24

And. Framework for a national strategy for

1:26

those of you who listen. Or.

1:28

Wash our show. You know that

1:31

I have had scores of guest

1:33

on to talk about all this

1:35

loneliness epidemic that we're going through,

1:37

especially. For. Young girls are

1:40

guess today as Dr. Julian whole

1:42

lunch dad and we so thankful

1:44

for. You. Taking the time to join

1:46

his welcome. Daycare.

1:49

Make better, I'd. Almost

1:51

start by dispelling murders

1:53

or or the words

1:55

that we sometimes use

1:57

but not scientifically Sauce

1:59

Austin. with his fact powdered. I.

2:02

Personally enjoy being alone. I.

2:04

Describe myself as a loner, which is

2:07

you may find hard to believe some

2:09

money in politics is a loner or

2:11

an introvert. Those are the words that

2:13

I use. A. Never recall being

2:15

lonely a day and my life. So.

2:18

The difference when people hear

2:20

loneliness. The difference between that.

2:23

And. An introvert or someone

2:25

who prefers being alone. Help

2:28

us separate those terms. Yeah,

2:30

I know this is a great

2:32

place to start because there's a

2:35

lot of confusion because we are

2:37

saying use terms interchangeably. Ah, and

2:39

we often use the term loneliness

2:42

even quivers fleets I So first

2:44

off I think it's it's useful

2:46

to distinguish between loneliness and isolation

2:49

to those two are often used

2:51

interchangeably. It's so. Isolation.

2:53

Can be objectively been

2:55

allowed, but it also

2:58

can refer to having

3:00

seen relationship so a

3:02

small social network are

3:04

infrequent social contact with

3:06

others. For. As loneliness

3:08

is more ceiling allowed and

3:10

announce more of a distrust,

3:13

things feeling and sciences described

3:15

this as the discrepancy between

3:17

one desired level of connection

3:19

and was axel level of

3:22

connection. So as you just

3:24

described, you can be alone

3:26

and not feel lonely, and

3:28

conversely, you can also be

3:31

surrounded by other people and

3:33

still feel profoundly loudly and.

3:36

And. So I isolation cent

3:38

increase your risk for

3:40

for feeling lonely and

3:42

by that they they

3:44

are different and but

3:46

interestingly both have been

3:48

associated with Rask you

3:50

bring up another a

3:52

really important. Kind

3:55

of common perception and that

3:58

is that the introverts. Perhaps.

4:01

The. Preferred Mode Prefer to be alone

4:03

and and don't get lonely And that

4:05

you know it's interesting because I remember

4:08

all sorts of kind of jokes during

4:10

the pandemic saying things like you know,

4:12

introverts have been training for. There are

4:15

lots of the are you know we

4:17

need to recharge your extroverted for thousands

4:19

of. But I interestingly

4:21

what the on what

4:24

many studies are selling

4:26

is that actually introverts

4:28

I'm are at increased

4:30

risk for. Both isolation and

4:33

loneliness. And so we shouldn't just

4:35

assume that because someone is and

4:37

heard of that, They don't get

4:39

lonely. I'm so it's a little

4:41

bit tricky by by as we

4:43

any one of us can can

4:46

feel lonely. in fact it's It's

4:48

a. Part. Of the human nature

4:50

to feel lonely just like hunger or

4:52

third that the issue really is more

4:55

when it becomes prolongs rage. ah and

4:57

and so if you get stuck to

4:59

not loneliness that that's when it really

5:02

starts to be linked to a lot

5:04

of are detrimental kinds about. Covers:

5:06

Are you more videos? You treated

5:08

me because I about an hour

5:11

ago would have just as you'd

5:13

given me a test I would

5:15

have just words like introvert. an

5:18

extrovert. Were. Just words we

5:20

make up for Team building exercise

5:22

is while we're taking some while

5:24

we're taking how Mars Briggs test

5:26

or something. but they're not really

5:29

scientific terms but it sounded like

5:31

in your return use the scientists

5:33

use those times to and and

5:35

then bit more not crazy to

5:37

con a divide the world and

5:40

to introverts and extroverts. Yeah,

5:42

personality has been studied across

5:44

psychology and so interest and

5:47

x servers and are just

5:49

to have many that we

5:51

can possibly look at. And

5:53

so I wouldn't necessarily say

5:55

in our we we create

5:57

this this division and and.

6:00

In other is very the i have some

6:02

degree to which people are more introverted or

6:05

extrovert and it can be helpful but only

6:07

to a certain extent. One

6:09

of the reasons for I ask is

6:12

for those of us who say. We.

6:14

Prefer being alone. We. Say.

6:17

Maybe. We are being naive

6:19

about the consequences of what we

6:21

think are what we maybe even

6:24

seal or prefer. Maybe we should

6:26

force ourselves. To. Go for

6:28

this word the didn't exist when I

6:31

was in school connection. Meet. Loneliness

6:33

existed, but I never heard the word

6:35

connection on old Zinc and. Maybe

6:37

within the last couple years? Yeah.

6:40

Yeah so anyway when we meet

6:42

next it as a fundamental human

6:44

need and and so and not

6:46

only that linked to all these

6:48

incredible on benefits which I can

6:51

go into they are bad but

6:53

as you say it's it's and.

6:55

Sometimes the things that are good for us

6:58

that may not necessarily be comfortable. And.

7:00

So sometimes getting exercise can

7:03

feel uncomfortable. Of

7:05

Homeless. Or as dry

7:08

as often as we can

7:10

take. Great pleasure and things that are

7:12

not healthy for us. So

7:15

and we need to add that

7:17

the sometimes Ah and get out

7:19

of our our comfort zone of

7:21

in order to be able to

7:23

out read some of these santa

7:25

said sense and suggest going by

7:27

what we prefer or dell prefer

7:29

ah may not always be the

7:31

best the best guide and terms

7:33

of what what's healthy or unhealthy.

7:36

Most a great example mean abundance

7:38

of people go round or they

7:40

go to the doom when they

7:42

don't seem like it. The disease

7:44

is good for them and I

7:46

should probably go with my wife

7:48

to social events. He even though

7:50

I would rather stay home and

7:52

watch British crime drama so I

7:54

think you're right about that. Let

7:56

me ask you. You mentioned the

7:58

benefits of can. connection, loving

8:01

pessimism the way I do. I'm tempted to

8:03

start with the consequences of

8:06

a lack of connection, the deleterious

8:09

part of it, but I'll

8:11

let you pick. You'll start with the good

8:13

news about being connected or just

8:16

how unhealthy it is to be

8:19

lonely or disconnected. Yeah,

8:21

so I I'll

8:24

try and kind of balance both. So

8:28

what we know is that the more

8:31

socially connected you are, so

8:33

having more and better quality relationships,

8:36

connections with your community, etc. That

8:39

is associated with better kinds

8:41

of outcomes. So that includes

8:43

lower risk for mental

8:47

health issues such as depression,

8:51

lower risk for developing dementia,

8:55

lower risk for cardiovascular

8:58

disease and other kinds of

9:00

chronic diseases and it increases

9:03

your survival or

9:05

your your your lifespan as

9:09

well. And so just to kind of put a few

9:11

numbers to this, being

9:13

more socially connected is associated with a

9:15

50% increase odds of survival.

9:19

And that is across mortality

9:22

outcomes of all causes. And

9:25

then when we look at the

9:28

opposite end, so lacking connection, whether

9:30

that's being isolated, lonely, lacking support,

9:34

having poor quality relationships. So

9:37

having poor relationships increases

9:39

your risk for developing depression, anxiety,

9:44

suicidality. It increases

9:47

your risk of mild

9:49

cognitive impairments and dementia, including

9:52

Alzheimer's disease. It

9:55

can increase your risk of

9:58

cardiovascular disease by

10:00

29%, stroke by 32%, and it can increase

10:02

your risk for earlier death, again, from all

10:04

causes, and

10:10

in particularly disease-related mortality.

10:13

So some numbers that go along with

10:15

that, being isolated, or

10:17

sorry, being lonely, is

10:19

associated with an increased risk of earlier death

10:21

by 29%, or sorry, 26%

10:25

isolation by 29%, and living alone by 32%. So

10:32

these are some, you know,

10:34

pretty important kinds of outcomes,

10:37

but there are, and these are more

10:39

long-term outcomes, but they're even short-term outcomes,

10:42

like it being

10:44

more socially connected actually reduces

10:47

your susceptibility to developing a cold

10:49

or flu, and

10:54

conversely, being isolated or lonely can

10:57

make you more susceptible to

11:00

viruses. We've also

11:02

seen that people who are more

11:04

socially connected are also more

11:07

likely to thrive in other kinds of

11:09

ways. So when

11:11

it comes to safety, things like

11:13

natural disasters, whether it be a flood

11:15

or a fire, that often people

11:18

who know their neighbors are more

11:20

likely to survive these kinds of events,

11:23

and are more likely to get support

11:25

and be more resilient and recovering from

11:28

these kinds of events. So some kinds

11:30

of education outcomes are stronger as well.

11:33

So we see that not

11:35

only individuals, but communities are

11:37

more likely to thrive the more connected

11:40

they are. More of our

11:43

conversation with Dr. Julianne Holt-Lunstad right

11:45

after this. All

11:47

right, I'm sitting here thinking of, I

11:50

guess when I was in college, my

11:53

connection back home was to hand write a

11:55

letter. Maybe possibly my

11:57

father would collect call from...

12:00

me, but doubtful based on my report

12:02

card the previous semester, he probably wouldn't do

12:05

that. So there's so many

12:07

more options now for connection or

12:10

connectivity. How in the world can

12:12

there be a connection,

12:15

lack of connection epidemic when we

12:17

seem to be from a technology

12:20

standpoint more connected than ever? Yeah,

12:23

this is I think an important

12:25

question that we're all trying to

12:27

grapple with because presumably

12:30

we have more opportunities to

12:32

connect and yet we're seeing

12:34

these trends that suggest we're

12:36

less connected and why is

12:38

that? And

12:40

I mean, I can share with you some of the

12:43

trends that we are seeing that

12:45

suggest that we are less connected.

12:48

So let me maybe start with a

12:50

few. So if

12:53

you look at, for instance, there

12:56

was some data that was recently published

12:58

by the American Time Use Survey and

13:01

it looks at how Americans have been spending

13:03

their time over the past

13:05

two decades. So starting in 2003

13:08

and what you see is that time

13:11

spent alone has been

13:13

increasing, time spent with

13:15

family, both household family and

13:17

non-household family has been decreasing,

13:20

time spent with friends have

13:22

been decreasing, time spent

13:25

in community and companionship also

13:27

decreasing. And

13:30

so we think about, okay, well, what

13:32

might be accounting for these trends? And

13:34

so I think the obvious first one

13:36

is people will say, well, the pandemic,

13:38

right? Well, yes, we saw

13:40

some increases there, but it started before

13:42

that. So then we

13:45

think, well, okay, it's got to

13:47

be social media. And

13:51

Some of the estimates around

13:53

that, around the time that

13:55

smartphones tended to be the.

14:00

That better majority of Americans had smartphone

14:03

them and the time in which are

14:05

the majority of people became on social

14:07

media fan Yes we see an increase

14:09

around that time but it didn't start

14:12

there and so it starts to one

14:14

you know we start to think or

14:16

what other factors my beach and it's

14:19

not of those are important because they

14:21

are. By. These trends began

14:23

before that and and in fact we

14:25

see some. Studies

14:28

that look at things like

14:30

Social Capital that have also

14:32

that and began even prior

14:34

to that ah even further

14:36

back than two thousand and

14:38

three in a looking back

14:40

further decades and so is

14:42

it may be a culmination

14:44

of many factories that are

14:47

are leading to the these

14:49

issues. That and. You

14:51

know I think it It is

14:53

an important question because if we

14:55

don't understand why then it makes

14:57

it really hard for us to

14:59

come on. Plus with appropriate time

15:01

the solutions. Will. On gonna

15:03

show my background is a homicide

15:06

prosecutor are not as a scientist

15:08

but the reality is we would

15:10

be hard pressed to seek of

15:13

a single gathering place that has

15:15

not been victimized by a mass

15:18

shooting. Than. A wonder. Whether.

15:21

That plays a part in people's

15:23

minds as he feels safer at

15:25

home and therefore they're less likely.

15:27

Minimum. Mass shootings in theaters

15:30

and sporting events and churches

15:32

and schools and. On

15:35

on all made again. I'm not

15:37

a psychologist but of our number

15:39

one desire is to stay alive

15:41

say well I just wonder of

15:43

subliminally may be. A

15:45

fear of something as would keeps his

15:47

home but. Like. I said amount

15:49

of I am not a scientists are

15:52

you know? It's it's interesting. you suggest

15:54

that because it may be the in

15:56

it with all. this isn't the humans

15:58

in a countdown. To

16:01

what is what is the you

16:03

know a threat versus what is

16:05

an opportunity heat other you risk

16:07

opportunity kinds of pounds on decision

16:09

making. And. So it might

16:11

be that not only are there and

16:14

real kind of rest like that but

16:16

there are additional kind of rest like

16:18

risk of rejection and but then also

16:20

the kinds of opportunities and we might

16:22

be now so comfortable where we're getting

16:24

certain kinds of opportunities were will gosh

16:26

I can get my entertainment at home

16:28

now so why why should I leave

16:31

the house I can have my food

16:33

delivered for? Why should I go out

16:35

into my community and go to the

16:37

grocery store? Yes there are many conveniences

16:39

that we have now built. Into our

16:41

lives that it may feel

16:44

as though it's easier and

16:46

safer to stay at home.

16:49

To. Connection has to be in

16:51

person Like you and I both

16:53

slipped on the video. You

16:55

could have you wanna do? You probably

16:57

been tempted to slip off the video

17:00

worse use audio the as a former

17:02

connection but it's less than video. Doesn't.

17:05

Have to be in person for it

17:07

to be fully effective. But

17:09

we're still trying to understand

17:11

the equivalency is an So.

17:14

Of course our. Our

17:16

connections can provide many signs of

17:18

antenna. said sense and facility is

17:20

different kinds of needs and goals

17:23

and so it may be appropriate

17:25

for certain kinds of things com

17:27

and less so for others. And

17:29

so it's so this purpose of

17:32

probably would have been really hard

17:34

for us to arrange to meet

17:36

in person and and so it

17:38

may not have happened otherwise. And

17:40

so I've been able to make

17:43

connections across geographic distances can be

17:45

a really. Useful thing to do,

17:47

but we also know that

17:49

there have been times where

17:51

I know that there are

17:53

many colleagues that I got

17:55

to you know quite well

17:57

over over and. Do

18:00

you need video to on and

18:02

then when we met in person

18:05

it was so incredible. Ah and

18:07

there's something clearly missing are about

18:09

that and the and so I

18:12

think it can be a tool

18:14

that can be helpful but it

18:16

may not necessarily replace or be

18:18

equivalent to in. Person. Contact.

18:22

Or I'm going by. Ah,

18:24

I. Would close almost forty years now. A

18:28

column Touch studies that children who

18:30

are held do better than children

18:33

who were not. Arm

18:35

and I assume is there is some

18:37

part of the human condition the does

18:39

like to touch. Was. It as

18:41

a handshake or a hog or powder on

18:43

the bar. None. Of which

18:45

is possible if you are

18:47

on zoom. Or. So

18:50

or or were bags or something you have

18:52

to be in person is that. Touch.

18:54

Desire or need? Real.

18:57

And I guess is that can't be mad

18:59

and leisure and person. Yeah.

19:01

So there are an many

19:03

study is that sounds looked

19:06

at the importance of human

19:08

sets you you bring out

19:10

a one of them are

19:12

around studies that have looked

19:14

at an incense and small

19:16

children and custodial care that

19:18

box human contact They had

19:20

failed to thrive on and

19:22

and in some cases even

19:25

even on I died as

19:27

a result. This you know

19:29

of course led to many

19:31

changes. In in How We Do

19:33

That, But there are other kinds

19:35

of studies that have looked at

19:37

the importance of such, whether that's

19:39

what we're holding, hands, sitting more.

19:43

Closely snuggled up, I.

19:46

Touch. Can be really important

19:48

and who are in fact

19:50

a maximum My own study.

19:52

We looked at the role

19:54

of Touch on the neural

19:56

peptide oxytocin. ah and Nazi

19:59

confuses oxycontin. I'm

20:01

actually chose and that is is

20:04

a neural. Have tried it and

20:06

some people have called it the

20:08

the the love hormone or the

20:11

bonding hormone. It's a little more

20:13

complex than that bad but I'm

20:15

in part it's because it's been

20:17

implicated in social bonding. So for

20:20

instance, when you on block the

20:22

receptors for oxytocin in animals naval

20:24

completely neglect their young and when

20:27

you are a stimulate them but

20:29

with oxytocin. They will often cheer

20:31

for young the net that are

20:33

not their own offspring and and

20:36

so it seems to be associated

20:38

with which social bonding but it's

20:40

also been linked to things like

20:42

stress regulation. Pain regulation

20:45

and so part of this

20:47

is a cold touch. Not

20:49

only is important in social

20:51

bonding by the time influence

20:53

how we navigate our world

20:56

and and ultimately how it

20:58

can potentially. Be a mediator

21:00

to. How. The see bees

21:03

might relate to biological

21:05

pathways that ultimately I

21:07

can can influence health

21:09

outcomes to. Be.

21:11

Right back with more the trade ya

21:13

the podcast. Are are really

21:16

do not want to turn you

21:18

from size into self help sources?

21:20

Sounds like a self help question

21:22

did held me rephrase it into

21:24

more of an entry points. But.

21:26

If someone begins to

21:28

see the signs, Of.

21:31

Lack of Canucks sooner? loneliness and

21:33

themselves which may be toss. Or.

21:36

See it and someone else they care about.

21:39

Is. It just as simple as you

21:41

get out more join a group

21:43

zone to bridge club. Battle.

21:46

Have a Phd and I don't need want

21:48

to come up with that so there's gotta

21:50

be more to it. Zola, What? What? What

21:52

am I missing? Assuming we care about were

21:54

worried about a lack of connection in their

21:56

lives. Here, I think

21:58

that's our first started. it's important

22:00

to understand why, right?

22:03

Because if we

22:05

understand the underlying causes of why

22:07

they may be isolated or lonely,

22:11

this can help us find a

22:13

solution that might be more responsive to their needs.

22:16

So for some, if it was

22:19

because they

22:21

have had some kind of change, whether it's a

22:24

change in a job or a move, and

22:26

it's disrupted their social network, and

22:28

maybe they don't have friends

22:31

or family nearby anymore to

22:33

connect with, that might

22:35

mean making new friends. And

22:37

so in that case, joining groups

22:40

might be a good way to start

22:44

building relationships. And there is a

22:47

large literature on how group membership

22:49

can be associated with

22:51

better kinds of outcomes. But

22:53

if it's some other underlying

22:55

cause, such as an underlying

22:58

health issue, or so

23:01

for instance, among older

23:03

adults, untreated hearing

23:06

loss can be a contributor to

23:10

isolation and loneliness. I

23:12

mean, I'm sure you can imagine,

23:14

if you're having a hard time

23:17

hearing the conversation, you're likely to

23:19

disengage and perhaps withdraw or

23:23

not say anything out of embarrassment. And

23:26

so the solution in that

23:28

case might be very different than the

23:31

person who just

23:33

moved, right? And

23:35

so really trying to understand what that

23:37

might be can start

23:39

you down the path of what

23:42

might be the solution. There

23:44

are several types of

23:46

interventions that have been

23:48

studied. And

23:51

most of them have some support

23:54

for their effectiveness, But

23:57

they're not huge. And In part because

23:59

one solution. May not be

24:01

appropriate for everybody on and we

24:03

really need to make sure we're

24:05

we're response. To that, matching there

24:07

needs to live with what we're

24:09

providing or are offering. Or

24:11

or even just assisting them west.

24:15

Dog I would literally rather write

24:17

my own obituary. Didn't talk about

24:19

politics, so I am know who

24:21

to talk about politics with you.

24:23

Beyond stating the obvious that we

24:26

live in Davis of times. And

24:28

if I were searching for and and

24:30

to noom for. Connectivity.

24:33

It would be divisiveness a probably would

24:35

not be the right and to now

24:37

but they the split. They seem opposite

24:39

to me. That it the

24:41

more divided you feel, the less connected

24:44

you feel. A wonder.

24:46

No. Mean I'll mention mass shootings. not

24:49

the political way but in a

24:51

practical way. I wonder if is

24:53

a quarter of does this of

24:55

nurse a culture of fear or

24:57

anger also contributes to a lack

25:00

of willingness to connect.on the I've

25:02

got friends that would never vote

25:04

for me. And I say

25:06

that as a source of pride. I

25:08

mean to me, it is fantastic that

25:10

we did not let that interfere with

25:12

our friendship. They shouldn't vote

25:15

for me. I I have a different view of

25:17

government A were right thought to look for me.

25:19

But. That's rare you sleepy? If we

25:21

don't agree with someone political, we kind

25:24

of caught all see the connection. Or.

25:26

Have all lost my mind? Know

25:28

it's it's certainly am. He had

25:31

a growing concern as it's hard

25:33

to know what the year which

25:35

is the second and which has

25:37

the access in a sense of

25:40

ah the more isolated we feel

25:42

from other the and the more

25:44

we start certain as be the

25:47

world and us versus them on

25:49

which can lead to these kinds

25:51

as of divisions and that the

25:54

more were divided and feel like

25:56

we are perhaps unheard or not

25:58

accepted. Or that. The huge

26:00

on the more isolated we

26:02

feel and so if a

26:04

can be this this a

26:06

hum cyclical process. I. Am

26:10

certainly. Ah the the more

26:12

we are isolate ourselves am a

26:14

can be easier to not engage

26:16

with other people. Like you said

26:18

you know cut off people who

26:20

think differently than eyes and and

26:22

and fail to see our our

26:24

common humanity in the thing that

26:26

we do agree on and the

26:28

thing is that we do have

26:31

uncommon. which usually so far

26:33

outnumber the things that you do

26:35

not answer he all but we'd

26:37

use for some reason that. Another.

26:40

Day You'll have to explain to me

26:42

why. We start with the seems that.

26:45

Like. Divide us and told starts we

26:47

don't do it on airplanes and we

26:49

would all sit there and like argue

26:51

on airplanes with whoever sitting beside us

26:53

would try to find something we haven't

26:55

Comments usually at his mother's are not

26:58

to talk. That is what we have.

27:00

I'm done with the somehow don't want

27:02

to talk on the replace. What am

27:04

I not ask? do that I should

27:06

have or what should we know about.

27:09

Loneliness. And a lack of

27:11

connection the most people do not.

27:14

Going. To as an honest this is

27:16

necessarily or something that people doubt now.

27:18

but I think you know if if

27:20

we're going to have some kind of

27:22

parting of. Perhaps

27:25

node I am. you know

27:27

when you ask me of

27:29

what what can someone do

27:31

I this past ah well

27:33

I didn't. As a study.

27:36

Where. We looked at. It

27:38

we call it the sign silence

27:40

and we asked neighbor or v

27:42

individuals to do small acts of

27:44

kindness for their neighbors over the

27:46

course of on for weeks and

27:48

says somewhere randomly assigned to do

27:50

the than some I'm just gonna

27:52

go about their business. And

27:54

what we found was that those who

27:56

did the small acts of kindness for

27:58

their neighbors were. I'm more

28:01

likely sure it's you. And they

28:03

were a report last loneliness And

28:05

and as I offer that because

28:08

it's something that literally anyone can

28:10

do, it's free. You don't need

28:12

any training, And. Not

28:14

only you know or are also

28:17

we only found these benefits for

28:19

the people who. Did

28:22

the acts of kindness? we didn't even

28:24

measure the people of who received the

28:26

acts of kindness and presumably they benefited

28:29

skill. but what what This I suggested

28:31

that the for something small that any

28:33

one of us can do an that

28:35

that one way we can kind of

28:37

get out of this is by serving

28:40

others by helping others. And

28:42

you know it's kind of like at least he

28:44

does, but I've been taught since I was a

28:46

child and and that is that you know some

28:49

of the best ways to help ourselves as to

28:51

help others. Yeah. Someone famous

28:53

or can't remember who said it

28:55

was more blessed to do of

28:57

them to receive. And. Actually,

29:00

Are. Used a story Who said

29:03

the essence of lies Schumann, service,

29:05

service to others so. We.

29:07

Spent all this time. I try

29:09

to see your out how we can

29:12

improve ourselves when as you note. He

29:14

might be a simple is. Going.

29:17

To get in the newspaper in walkie

29:19

closer to your neighbors front or so

29:21

don't have to walk as for or

29:23

hope other way. I hope my neighbors

29:25

are listening to this journalists a series

29:28

of small acts of kindness. For me

29:30

that is great advice. A mean there's

29:32

not a soul in the world who

29:34

cat. Or you're just a

29:36

simple kind of stars like are as I

29:38

had a nickel for every time I got

29:41

through the drive through. And someone

29:43

in front of me had paid for it.

29:46

I don't own didn't leave their name

29:48

but as you go to restaurants and

29:50

you go to check out and I

29:52

mean I'm still live in a home

29:54

town I grew up in so someone

29:56

who's already paid for it. It

29:58

leaves like an incredible. Impression on you

30:00

when people do nice things for you.

30:03

So. That's the perfect thing. That

30:06

and that's not like super complicated

30:08

if people wanna. Know.

30:10

More about this, Learn more about

30:12

this mean Arnold Pretend that we

30:14

would understand your academic studies or

30:16

research. But do you write in

30:18

like a way that normal people

30:20

could also like the how would

30:22

like? I've read the Surgeon General

30:24

Staff I Ah, solid. That. Was.

30:27

So an island lead scientific

30:29

editor on that and southern

30:31

that you can read and

30:33

I have some resources are

30:36

my website which is hi

30:38

Julie Anne Hotline sad.com I'm

30:40

I also have a content

30:42

or my academic am website

30:44

which which might be more

30:46

academic and and said there's

30:48

there's a lot of resources

30:50

that are are out there

30:52

for the public dead and

30:54

the National Academies and has

30:56

has issued. A few different

30:58

reports on this I did,

31:01

One on that I participated

31:03

in. One eye is a

31:05

report on social isolation and

31:07

loneliness among older adults, and

31:09

then the other one is

31:12

on social media. an adolescent

31:14

health. And. Then there

31:16

are an additional signs of

31:18

of sources that you can

31:20

find online on. The Cdc

31:22

now has a website and

31:25

social connectedness. I'll answer you

31:27

can find some more public

31:29

facing signs of information. There

31:31

as well I keep saying last question

31:34

that are cheap like since I'm breaking

31:36

my were heard but something is enter

31:38

my head humid you an older people

31:40

and I'll take that. You know you

31:43

lose a spouse, you eat your your

31:45

children move away doubt one is also

31:47

but having people may be see that

31:50

when com and sometimes. When.

31:52

I see a loneliness epidemic

31:54

among young girls and women.

31:57

That is what makes me

31:59

saying what is going on.

32:02

So. Is epidemic the right

32:04

word is it is a

32:06

we really seeing ice depression

32:08

and suicidal ideation among young

32:10

girls and young women. Cells

32:13

were seeing the depression

32:15

and an ad and

32:18

suicidality across both both

32:20

genders and and we

32:22

do see in many,

32:24

many studies that I

32:27

was certainly anyone at

32:29

any age and any

32:31

gender ten and feel

32:34

lonely. Or there there

32:36

does seem to be the

32:38

highest prevalence in Ireland. Use.

32:41

So. Adolescence and and

32:43

Young Adults and.

32:46

A So for example. Ah,

32:48

one study showed that loneliness

32:50

peaks at age nineteen. I

32:52

according to some data here

32:54

I I live in Utah.

32:56

I'm the peak ages in

32:58

tenth grade on the in

33:00

in among you times. So

33:03

we are seeing the

33:05

this really becoming concerning

33:07

for for young people.

33:09

Whether or not it

33:11

is considered an epidemic

33:14

is somewhat up. For

33:16

debate, arm and Out because different

33:18

people have different definitions of what

33:20

an epidemic. Might. Mean that

33:23

if we use. It

33:25

in a way that would

33:27

signify something that has severe

33:29

consequences and am in an

33:31

where there's some degree of

33:33

urgency so I can turn.

33:35

Increasing trend of impact or

33:38

or a large impact on

33:40

society is ah what our

33:42

current evidence suggests is that

33:44

a large portion of the

33:46

of the population and and

33:48

when I say large portion

33:50

of i should say significant

33:52

portion. Ah the the prevalence.

33:54

Rates can reins on depending on

33:57

whether you're looking at moderate and

33:59

severe level. of loneliness or just the

34:01

severe levels of loneliness, but they range

34:03

anywhere from about 20%

34:06

to over half of the population

34:08

reporting loneliness. And

34:11

so what that suggests is that this

34:13

is having a sizable impact on the

34:16

population and the consequences are

34:18

severe. And so what that would suggest

34:21

is it's something that we should be

34:23

taking seriously. So whether you call it

34:25

a crisis, an epidemic, an

34:30

urgent issue, it's

34:33

serious nonetheless and it's something that

34:35

we certainly should not

34:37

ignore. Well, thank you

34:39

for number one, spending a lot of

34:41

your professional career researching it so that

34:44

way people have the numbers and you're

34:46

right. I mean, whether, what

34:48

word you use is not

34:50

good, whether it's a crisis

34:52

or an epidemic or, you know, or

34:54

the slew of despond, it ain't good.

34:58

So thank you for that. Thank you

35:00

for articulating it in a way that

35:03

a lawyer could understand and other folks

35:05

on our, that listen to our podcast.

35:07

It is, it is heartbreaking to me

35:10

as someone who's never felt it to

35:13

think that anybody, I used to

35:15

go to school and I would tell

35:17

the kids when I was the DA that

35:20

there's no reason anyone in your cafeteria

35:22

should be sitting alone. That was my

35:24

way of trying to guilt them into

35:26

not letting kids sit by themselves. Who

35:29

knows? Maybe there's a little Trey Gowdy in there

35:31

that wanted to be by himself. I don't know

35:34

that, but it is heartbreaking

35:36

to think of people suffering from

35:38

loneliness. So thank

35:40

you for helping us understand it and also giving

35:42

us ideas on how to like make it better.

35:45

Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank

35:47

you for having me and,

35:49

and, and I guess I would

35:51

just part with saying, you know,

35:53

we should all take a moment to really, you know,

35:56

prioritize our relationships in our own

35:59

lives. because each one of us

36:01

can take steps today to not

36:04

only help ourselves, but to help others. Amen.

36:07

Thank you. And I

36:10

reserve the right to call on you again, but

36:12

I won't go through my lack

36:15

of ability to pass statistics and testing.

36:17

I can barely pronounce statistics. I certainly

36:19

couldn't have passed it, but I'll skip

36:21

that. I'm sure you could have if

36:24

you'd actually taken it. I

36:26

don't know. I don't know. We'll never,

36:28

we will never know. I love to

36:30

have normal psychology. That was my favorite,

36:32

but you

36:35

need that a lot more if you're a homicide

36:37

prosecutor than you do, you know,

36:39

probably early childhood development. That course didn't

36:41

help me a whole lot, but you

36:43

have. So thank you for joining us

36:45

and I look forward to our next

36:48

time. Thank you. Appreciate

36:50

it. And thank you all for joining

36:52

us on a who's a with Trey,

36:55

listen ad free with a

36:57

Fox news podcast plus subscription

36:59

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37:01

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