0:00

I lost it

0:00

Now call him an idiot, Sean.

0:03

I don't have to say it, he knows,

0:06

The circle is complete.

0:09

No that's all

0:09

true. It's all true. You know,

0:13

actually, I do tend to start out

0:13

with some form of a dad joke.

0:18

And being that we just had a dad

0:18

conversation. You've got to have

0:23

at least a dad joke at the

0:23

ready.

0:26

I have a

0:26

financial dad joke no less. But

0:31

I almost spit

0:31

out. Seltzer.

0:34

I'm a little worried that you might have already used it.

0:38

Is it 789?

0:39

No, it's not that one.

0:40

Okay, well, then.

0:40

I don't know.

0:43

It is. Why is

0:43

money called dough?

0:46

I don't know. I

0:46

haven't used this one. I don't

0:48

know.

0:49

Because we all kneed it.

0:52

I like that one.

0:53

Why don't I know that joke?

0:55

You should know that one. That's right up your alley.

0:58

Well, I'm gifted

0:58

Sean, but I'm not not that

1:03

gifted.

1:03

I came prepared.

1:03

What can I say I'm a huge fan.

1:09

Hey, I found our

1:09

second face. This is the truth

1:15

about investing back to basics

1:15

podcast where we want to help

1:21

you take control of your

1:21

personal finance and long term

1:24

investments. If you're looking

1:24

for a way to learn the why and

1:29

how of investing, then you found

1:29

the right place. Thank you for

1:35

taking the time to learn how to

1:35

better yourselves. That's great.

1:40

Well, here, I'll, I'll get it

1:40

going. So then that way, we at

1:44

least have the introduction

1:44

going and then we'll just see

1:46

where the wind takes us.

1:49

Do you actually know what we're talking about this,

1:51

I don't

1:51

Or are you just gonna throw it out there and then I'm gonna have to change it

1:53

later.

1:55

I'm the editor.

1:55

I'm borderline Jesus, Sean, I

1:59

can just just make things

1:59

disappear like they never

2:02

happened. So this is this is

2:02

where I can just make it happen

2:07

from here and just start an

2:07

introduction and then fix it

2:11

later. That's how I welcome.

2:11

Welcome, everybody, ladies and

2:16

gentlemen, to a bonus episode,

2:16

finishing out our fifth season

2:21

of The Truth about investing

2:21

back to basics. My name is Chris

2:25

Holling.

2:25

And I'm Sean Cooper.

2:26

And we have a

2:26

special guest to this guest

2:29

guest with us today. A Mr.

2:34

Oh, that's me.

2:35

Yeah, that's your Go ahead. Yeah, I wasn't sure if I was gonna say it or not.

2:38

Well, I

2:39

thought I was

2:39

gonna say He's Chris Holling

2:42

that's Sean Cooper.

2:43

Oh, we could try that.

2:44

And I'm your host Charlie Koyle.

2:46

We can try that.

2:47

Just kidding. I'm not that host.

2:48

No, it's perfect. No, it's perfect.

2:51

I'm just kidding.

2:51

I don't. Yeah, I'm already

2:54

ruining this recording as is.

3:00

No, no, we're,

3:00

you're you're not. We're we're

3:04

here. What are we? We actually

3:04

don't have a plan.

3:08

Well, at least one of us has a plan. What is it Charlie

3:12

It's gotta be

3:12

Sean. No, it's got to be Sean

3:14

because I definitely didn't

3:14

bring a plan. As you know, I'm

3:21

as I know,

3:21

I'm a firefighter

3:21

paramedic in a nearby area from

3:25

you. So I have

3:26

This is how Charlie and I met. I'd never really got into that.

3:29

And we burned.

3:29

Yeah, we probably should have

3:31

done this. Like, Hey, who are

3:31

you? And how do we know each

3:33

other?

3:35

That would have made sense where were you on that, Chris?

3:37

May. You know what, through the magic of editing you're, you're about to

3:39

watch that. Sean Sean.

3:43

I might listen to it, but I can't watch it.

3:46

Yeah, we're gonna

3:46

have to do the podcast plug and

3:48

then we'll do that like, Hey,

3:48

who are you? How do we know each

3:51

other?

3:51

Yeah.

3:53

Cut and Paste this.

3:54

This is gonna be

3:54

a disaster now. This, this

3:57

I knew that you

3:57

were just gonna hate having me

4:00

on as soon as we started talking.

4:02

Yeah. So a little

4:02

bit about our guest today, Mr.

4:06

Charlie Coyle. Here. We've We've

4:06

known each other for Oh, geez.

4:11

That's, we're coming up on a

4:11

decade.

4:15

I think. Yeah,

4:15

no, we are definitely coming up

4:18

on a decade. Yeah. I just hit my

4:18

ninth year, I think.

4:23

Yeah, that sounds

4:23

about right. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz it

4:25

was it was 2012. We both started

4:25

at the same department together.

4:31

I was. I was working volunteer

4:31

at the time you went career

4:34

because you were volunteer right before that. Right.

4:36

So I was

4:36

volunteer at a neighboring. I

4:39

was a volunteer at the

4:39

department just to the west,

4:42

right and got picked up courier.

4:44

Right. And I right, and I already had

4:45

my certifications in place. And

4:49

so when the Academy started,

4:49

since I already had the

4:52

certifications that were

4:52

required for it, then that meant

4:55

that I could work the line but I

4:55

still had to go through the

4:58

academy so I was a was doing my

4:58

time on the line while I was in

5:03

Academy because I didn't want to

5:03

just do another academy after I

5:06

had just gotten out of one I

5:06

wanted some, some on the line

5:09

experience. And so we started

5:09

within months of each other. And

5:14

neither one of us knew anybody.

5:14

So, so Charlie was kind of a, an

5:21

oasis of people that all knew

5:21

each other in a small town

5:26

department that neither one of

5:26

us really knew a bunch of

5:29

people. So it was, it was good

5:29

to to work with Charlie and then

5:32

we we went our different ways

5:32

over time, but stayed connected

5:37

and now circled back. Because

5:37

now we're we're money nerds.

5:41

Yeah, money

5:41

nerds, money nerds. Money's

5:43

important, man.

5:45

It is. It. It is.

5:45

It's it's shocked me how

5:49

important it's been when I've

5:49

just thought, oh, yeah, I'll

5:51

just I'll just rough it, it'll

5:51

be fine. And then. And then

5:54

after figuring out that there

5:54

was more importance to it, then

5:57

what opportunities came

5:57

available to me and what I could

6:01

do with it after I started getting my stuff straightened out was was important. And we,

6:03

we talked about that before. And

6:06

that's what that's what led us

6:06

to Charlie joining us today on

6:08

some subjects. So we're looking

6:08

forward to having you here

6:11

today, Charlie, I appreciate it.

6:12

Well, I'm super

6:12

excited to be here because I am

6:15

a super nerd and have totally

6:15

pimped your podcast to as many

6:20

people as I know, because just

6:20

like you, most people think that

6:25

they know more than they do. And

6:25

they can just kind of wing it.

6:29

And that's not the case. Yeah,

6:31

I definitely

6:31

appreciate that. We we try to

6:33

keep these available. So it's

6:33

just it hits to a bunch of

6:37

different people where they go,

6:37

you know, I've got everything

6:39

straightened out, but then they

6:39

can't figure out a budget. So we

6:42

send them a budget one. Oh,

6:42

well, you know, I, I do have a

6:45

budget handled but, you know,

6:45

Hey, should I should I get this

6:48

insurance? Well, here's here's

6:48

an insurance. Here's, here's how

6:51

deductibles work. Here's here's,

6:51

oh, I think I'm gonna take all

6:55

my money and I'm gonna, I'm just

6:55

gonna put it into this, this

6:58

cool new way to invest. And

6:58

it's, it's totally, totally

7:02

active investing, like, Okay,

7:02

well, here's, here's active

7:05

versus passive. And that's,

7:05

that's why we touch on all these

7:07

little categories so that you

7:07

can fine tune everything. Yes,

7:10

no,

7:10

no, it's super

7:10

cool, super educational and fun

7:14

to listen to, except for really

7:14

hard to listen to Chris. And all

7:18

your bad jokes. Just.

7:20

You mean, dad

7:20

jokes? You Miss Miss Ed?

7:25

Yeah, I mean,

7:26

and we wanted to

7:26

bring in Charlie here today,

7:28

because he exists in that realm

7:28

of life insurance especially.

7:33

And right, right, Charlie and I

7:33

my my overgeneralizing that.

7:36

I mean, I would

7:36

say that life insurance is

7:41

something that I am qualified

7:41

and licensed to do. Oh,

7:45

no. That was well

7:45

said with other than it's a

7:49

large question mark at the end of it.

7:51

Yeah. I mean,

7:51

I'm, I'm licensed as a insurance

7:57

producer. But I wouldn't say

7:57

that I'm like a subject matter

8:01

expert, because it's a

8:01

continuous process of learning.

8:05

Which is all this

8:05

podcast is anyway, honestly. So

8:09

Are you? Are you

8:09

life and health? Or do you have

8:09

that's good. other other lines? Oh,

8:14

I'm just life and health.

8:16

Perfect

8:16

That's fair.

8:17

Okay. So there

8:17

you go. So stretching into you

8:20

life and health insurance. And

8:20

that's why we wanted to bring

8:22

him into this fold today, to

8:22

just kind of help us as a as a

8:26

bonus of wrapping up our season

8:26

in this whole this whole deal

8:30

and just kind of talk about some

8:30

normal things. And I guess by

8:34

normal things, what I wonder is

8:34

when you are talking to people

8:38

about life insurance, because that's that's what we've been focusing on at least this last

8:40

stretch, is there. Is there

8:44

anything in your realm in your

8:44

line of work that, that you like

8:49

to see that you like to

8:49

encourage that that stands out

8:53

to you the goods the bads, the

8:53

what stands out to you?

8:56

Well, it I would,

8:56

I would say that there's goods

9:00

and Bad's with everything,

9:00

right? Like it's it's totally

9:03

client dependent. It's, it's

9:03

100% you have to meet with each

9:06

client figure out their needs,

9:06

and there's goods and Bad's that

9:09

come with everything. There's

9:09

risks and benefits that come

9:12

with everything. And then since

9:12

I, I'm not, like, I don't have

9:17

my series seven, I can't sell

9:17

certain products that like a

9:21

financial advisor could like I

9:21

can't I can't sell a variable

9:26

annuity. Somehow I can sell a

9:26

401k which doesn't make sense to

9:30

me, but that's how the

9:30

regulations work. So government

9:34

is cool. But like it's, it's

9:34

totally dependent on the client

9:39

and their needs. I mean, I

9:39

always encourage people to

9:44

consider what kind of debt they

9:44

have. And like I, I'm trying to

9:51

like say it without recommending

9:51

something via podcast, but

9:57

sure.

9:58

You know, like,

9:58

usually The easiest entry level

10:01

product for somebody to get into

10:01

that I think most people would

10:05

benefit from. And I think you

10:05

guys talked about it, at the

10:08

beginning of season five was

10:08

term life insurance and just

10:11

being able to cover those

10:11

existing debts. Should something

10:14

happen, right. And even though

10:14

the payout is anywhere between

10:18

point five, and I think 3% of

10:18

overall, like policies,

10:23

he does listen

10:25

Yeah, he does

10:26

good, because I

10:26

didn't remember that. Good.

10:30

But even even

10:30

though the actual payouts are

10:32

typically low compared to the

10:32

amount of policies that are out

10:35

there, when those when those

10:35

policies are used, it's super

10:42

important, right? Because you don't want to leave your family with mountains of debt. There's

10:44

costs associated associated with

10:48

death, there's costs associated

10:48

with, you know, cause of death,

10:52

whether it was injury or

10:52

illness, there's going to be

10:54

medical bills, there's going to

10:54

be things to pay off, there's

10:57

going to be mortgages, there's

10:57

going to be loss of income,

11:00

there's going to be I mean, tons

11:00

of stuff that I think a lot of

11:04

people don't take into

11:04

consideration. So I think it's

11:07

important that people are at

11:07

least covering their debts. And

11:12

that's, it's, it's hard to say,

11:12

right, because insurance is such

11:17

a valuable part of a complete

11:17

financial profile. But it's not.

11:22

Like, it isn't a complete

11:22

financial profile. So it's

11:25

really important that, like you

11:25

meet with a client, or that the

11:29

client meets not only with the

11:29

insurance producer, but also a

11:33

financial advisor to figure out

11:33

what product is right for them.

11:36

Because a lot of financial

11:36

advisors are also versed in

11:39

insurance. Like in Colorado, you

11:39

have to be licensed to sell

11:44

insurance to be a financial

11:44

advisor. So usually, they've

11:48

taken the entry level course,

11:48

and they have some background,

11:51

and they can tell you which

11:51

product you need. And even if

11:53

you need a product, because sometimes people don't need it. Right. And that's, that's kind

11:55

of the name of the game with

11:58

insurance production is like,

11:58

sometimes they're snakes, right?

12:03

Like they're there to make a commission, they're there because they want to sell you

12:05

what's gonna make them the most

12:08

money versus what's the right

12:08

product. So I can't say that all

12:15

insurance producers are the

12:15

greatest people in the world.

12:18

But I'm sure there's great used

12:18

car salesmen just like they're

12:22

bad used car salesman. I don't

12:22

know.

12:24

That's, I think

12:24

that's, that's, that's great.

12:26

Honestly, I think it's pretty

12:26

well rounded. And it's, it

12:29

really fits into what I think

12:29

I've wound up saying, and in

12:33

every episode at this point is

12:33

that it's, it's just keeping in

12:36

mind tools for the toolbox kind

12:36

of thing. Because I, I'm with

12:39

you, it's not that that

12:39

insurance should never be a part

12:42

of it, or should be a majority

12:42

for it or anything, it's just

12:44

important to understand, you

12:44

know, where you are, in your

12:48

current point in time, where

12:48

things that are important to you

12:52

are what needs to be covered,

12:52

what what may need to be covered

12:57

from one step to the next and in

12:57

the interim, and the steps to go

13:01

through that. And, and when

13:01

you're talking about finding the

13:04

different salesman and finding

13:04

the different types of people, I

13:07

tend to toss around a phrase

13:07

that I didn't realize it was

13:11

going to be so directed at

13:11

Charlie here, but you know, I

13:14

don't I don't ask a life

13:14

insurance salesman, if I need

13:16

life insurance, if that's if

13:16

that's a fair way to put it. I

13:19

don't ask a used car salesman if

13:19

I need if I need a new use car

13:24

type thing. And it's I I think

13:24

that there is some level of

13:29

going okay, I've done the

13:29

research, I've looked at the

13:33

things that are important to me.

13:33

And now I've decided, I for sure

13:36

want a used car. Okay, now I'm

13:36

going to go talk to somebody

13:39

that knows exactly that knows

13:39

used cars knows all the

13:42

different ins and outs and, and

13:42

whatnot, but doing your own

13:45

research to figure out what's

13:45

important to you and why it's

13:48

important to you, I think is is

13:48

really important.

13:50

I think that like

13:50

you kind of hit the nail on the

13:56

head is like you don't you don't

13:56

ask a life insurance salesman.

14:03

Do you need life insurance?

14:03

Right? Like if and this actually

14:07

happened to me? When long before

14:07

I got into, you know, like, my

14:11

finance goals and stuff like

14:11

that. I was a new homeowner

14:15

newly married and believe it or

14:15

not, we had a door to door

14:19

insurance salesman, a life

14:19

insurance salesman and

14:21

wow,

14:22

yeah, no, it was super weird.

14:23

I thought that was a thing of the past anymore.

14:24

So did I. But I

14:24

think I was like 22. So I didn't

14:30

understand. And ironically,

14:30

right like I had a financial

14:33

advisor, somebody I meet with

14:33

twice a year and deals with like

14:36

my Roth account and all that

14:36

stuff. But we had never talked

14:41

about insurance. He'd said, you

14:41

know, you should consider

14:45

insurance especially to cover

14:45

any of your debts, but we never

14:49

really talked about it because

14:49

at 22 You don't think about like

14:53

the fact that you could die,

14:53

right? Like especially, I mean,

14:56

you and I do the same thing.

14:56

Most of the people that we see

15:00

In that position are old or sick

15:00

or suffering. And,

15:03

sure.

15:04

The funny thing

15:04

about life insurance is if

15:06

you're older, sicker suffering,

15:06

you're not going to be eligible

15:09

to get life insurance, you have

15:09

to be healthy, right? It's a

15:12

gamble. It's a it's an educated

15:12

guess, on behalf of the life

15:17

insurance company that says, Oh,

15:17

you are probably going to

15:20

outlive this policy. So we're

15:20

going to make money on you. And

15:23

if you say, Hey, I'm 79, and I

15:23

have cancer, and I've got two

15:28

years to live, I'd like a 30

15:28

year term policy, they're gonna

15:31

be like, No, that's, that's not

15:31

a thing. So, you know, at 22, I

15:37

was like, I don't need

15:37

insurance, I'm healthy, I'm

15:41

young and active, and no big

15:41

deal. And then all of a sudden,

15:46

health insurance or not health

15:46

insurance, life insurance

15:48

salesmen show up at my door, and

15:48

they're talking about whole

15:52

life. And without recommending

15:52

or, or discrediting a product

15:58

one way or another, it just

15:58

wasn't the right product for me.

16:04

And just the way that they were

16:04

talking about it, they made it

16:09

seem like it was the perfect

16:09

product for everyone. And

16:16

there's no such thing as a

16:16

perfect product for anybody. In

16:18

any case, whether it's financial

16:18

advising, or if it's insurance,

16:23

sales, every single person is

16:23

going to have different needs.

16:28

And it's really important to

16:28

meet those different needs. So I

16:31

guess Long story short, is, if

16:31

you don't have a financial

16:36

advisor, you should find one of

16:36

those for sure, right. And you

16:40

should find one that you trust.

16:40

And the same thing goes for your

16:44

insurance salesman, you should

16:44

find one that you trust, because

16:48

like the two door to door

16:48

salespeople that came by the

16:51

reason they were trying to sell

16:51

me that specific product is

16:54

because at the time that product

16:54

was advertised to them is what's

16:57

gonna make them the greatest amount of money.

16:59

Sure.

17:00

They don't know

17:00

me, they don't know my needs.

17:02

They came in and they had the

17:02

exact same pamphlets that they

17:05

were going to hand to everybody.

17:05

And they don't really care. So

17:09

it's important to find somebody

17:09

that you trust, who's not going

17:13

to oversell you or undersell you

17:13

or sell you something that you

17:16

don't need. Because that's the

17:16

reality of it is like, insurance

17:20

companies wouldn't exist if they

17:20

weren't making money, right?

17:24

So insurance

17:24

salesman wouldn't exist. If they

17:24

Absolutely. weren't making money. They're

17:28

like, that's, that's called

17:31

capitalism, like, welcome to the

17:31

game. But it is okay to make

17:36

money doing the right thing. So

17:36

it's important to find someone

17:40

who's willing to go down that

17:40

path with you and take the time

17:43

to talk to you and figure out

17:43

exactly what you need, exactly

17:46

what you don't need and find the

17:46

right stuff for you. And I think

17:50

that that goes kind of hand in

17:50

hand with what Sean does. And,

17:54

you know, hopefully, he feels

17:54

the same way.

17:59

Yep.

18:00

Sean, where does

18:00

that land on on things for you?

18:04

So like, someone's coming in and

18:04

talking to you, and where do you

18:08

land? I guess there's more?

18:11

No, I would

18:11

absolutely agree with what he

18:14

was saying is you definitely

18:14

want to work with somebody you

18:16

trust. But I would have add a

18:16

caveat to that. Because he

18:24

brought up some great points

18:24

about how, while they are

18:28

supposed to be working for you,

18:28

and looking out for your best

18:34

interests. Certainly, if they

18:34

are in a position where they're

18:38

supposed to be a fiduciary, then

18:38

they legally are bound to work

18:42

in your best interests at all

18:42

times, regardless of what pans

18:47

out for them. So that concept of

18:47

trust. The the caveat I would

18:59

add to that is I'm not even sure

18:59

how to put this because I, in my

19:06

capacity working in corporate

19:06

for years before starting my, my

19:13

firm. I worked with 1000s of

19:13

financial advisors. The biggest

19:19

and most successful financial

19:19

advisors were rarely the ones

19:23

that knew the most about finance

19:23

and investing. They were people

19:26

who were likable.

19:28

Sure. Yeah, I

19:28

could definitely see that.

19:30

And so I guess my caveat is, yes, you

19:31

want to trust them, but you want

19:36

to take the extra step of

19:36

understanding their knowledge

19:40

base and understanding enough to

19:40

be able to test their knowledge

19:45

base and where they're coming

19:45

from and what their what the

19:50

recommend route, what they're

19:50

recommending and why they're

19:53

recommending it.

19:54

Right.

19:56

Because yeah, I

19:56

agree trust is absolutely

20:01

crucial in when it comes to your

20:01

finances. Because if you can't

20:05

trust the person that you're

20:05

working with, you're never going

20:07

to tell them all the information

20:07

they need to actually do the

20:11

best job for you. But don't

20:11

necessarily just rely on your

20:15

gut instinct of Yeah, I like

20:15

this person, they're

20:18

trustworthy. They'll do the best

20:18

for me.

20:23

Well, that's a

20:23

good point. I'm wondering if I

20:26

know we've alluded to some of

20:26

this before, but I don't know if

20:28

we've ever actually come out

20:28

and, and said it specifically.

20:33

But part of the reason that we

20:33

we do this podcast is sort of a,

20:40

this, this, this might be kind

20:40

of a large generalization of it,

20:44

but I think it's the best way to

20:44

word it a moral duty, that's an

20:51

extension of Sean from the

20:51

fiduciary realm, where it's

20:55

exactly what he's talking about

20:55

that he has a legal obligation,

21:00

let alone he just happens to be

21:00

a decent guy that does want

21:04

everyone to be successful. And

21:04

the best way to do that is to,

21:08

to have a knowledge base,

21:08

there's nothing in any of our

21:11

episodes that we've ever

21:11

addressed as like a, these

21:15

people will know better than you

21:15

or you will only be successful

21:19

if you do this yourself by no

21:19

stretch, have we ever done

21:21

anything like that it's been

21:21

very, we want everyone to, to

21:26

know, whatever you're interested

21:26

in, in learning more about and

21:30

take the time to gather the

21:30

knowledge for it. Because if you

21:32

have somebody acting in your

21:32

stead, you should at least be

21:35

able to understand what's

21:35

happening so that you can hold

21:38

that accountable or so that you

21:38

can make good decisions and, and

21:42

point them in a in a good

21:42

direction if they don't see

21:44

something, even if they're

21:44

acting in your best interests,

21:46

or maybe to look out for

21:46

somebody that might not be

21:49

acting in your best interests.

21:49

And that's why we search for

21:52

these tools in the toolbox and

21:52

why we encourage people really

21:56

trying to take the time to to

21:56

better themselves through this.

22:01

Because it's you taking that on

22:01

in order to handle that and

22:06

address it as your own not

22:06

because there's a certain way to

22:09

do it, but because we really

22:09

just do want to see everybody

22:13

successful in the in the phrase

22:13

that Jarmar likes to use that I

22:17

like to toss around. I just I

22:17

just want rich friends, man.

22:20

Like, that'd be that'd be great.

22:20

I I have no intention of ever

22:24

getting a boat but if I got

22:24

somebody that's like, you know,

22:26

if it wasn't for you, I wouldn't

22:26

be as wealthy as I am today. But

22:30

I've got this boat I'm gonna go

22:30

hang out with that guy. And

22:33

that's that's part of it too.

22:33

But really just just taking the

22:38

time to to keep people

22:38

accountable. Even if you're not

22:43

the one doing the the active

22:43

portion of the investing I think

22:46

is is very important.

22:49

I mean, you don't

22:49

have to own the boat. I think

22:52

that's probably not the greatest

22:52

decision in the world. But you

22:55

want to have a friend with a boat.

22:56

That's what I'm saying? I don't I don't want the boat. I just want to ride the

22:58

boat.

23:00

Yeah, ride the boat.

23:01

Yeah.

23:02

What's the what's

23:02

the saying the the best two days

23:05

of owning a boat or the day you

23:05

buy it and the day you sell it?

23:08

Yeah. I've, I've

23:08

heard that

23:12

or bought what

23:12

is? What is boat stand for bust

23:16

out another 1000.

23:22

Those of you that

23:22

are listening, you don't have to

23:25

sell your boat. Just Just call

23:25

me so that we can ride in your

23:28

boat before you sell it.

23:29

I was about to say

23:34

I was gonna ask

23:34

Charlie, though, because one of

23:36

the things we've we haven't

23:36

addressed. We I think we have a

23:39

future episode about it

23:39

specifically related to like

23:42

financial advisors and that sort

23:42

of thing. But could you talk a

23:47

little bit more about the some

23:47

of the differences between

23:50

insurance agents, one of the

23:50

things that comes to my mind is

23:53

captive versus independent. You

23:53

know, what's the difference? Is

23:59

it something that matters? I

23:59

know, there's advantages and

24:01

disadvantages to each. Are there

24:01

other things that should be

24:05

considered or differences that

24:05

people might want to be aware

24:08

of?

24:09

Are you talking

24:09

about like specifically

24:12

independent versus captive

24:12

agents or like insurance agents

24:15

versus financial advisors versus

24:15

CFPs? That kind of stuff for

24:21

captive versus

24:21

independent? Specifically, if

24:23

you want to talk about the other

24:23

you're welcome to as well?

24:24

Well, so there's

24:24

independent and captive. So

24:27

basically, what that means is,

24:27

I'm trying to space it so that

24:32

my kid is not in the background

24:32

over the recording. But so

24:36

there's, it's, I mean, the best

24:36

way to think of it is like, if

24:41

if you go to a restaurant versus

24:41

ordering from DoorDash, right,

24:46

so if you wanted french fries

24:46

from one place and a hamburger

24:50

from another place, you would go

24:50

to DoorDash right, because you

24:55

have multiple different choices.

24:55

is a captive is like just the

25:00

French fry place, you have to

25:00

get a burger from that place. So

25:04

I mean, we can talk about like

25:04

the big names in insurance,

25:09

right? So like all state, right?

25:09

They they've got good

25:12

And that voice

25:13

commercials good advertisement

25:13

and all that stuff. But if

25:17

you're saying

25:19

and I mean the best for voice right

25:21

Are you in good

25:21

hands. Allstate

25:25

I don't know how low I can.

25:27

But you know, so

25:27

like if you're if you're talking

25:32

to an Allstate agent or even

25:32

like State Farm, right, like

25:35

they have tons of different

25:35

neighborhood offices, their

25:37

signs are huge. If you're going

25:37

to a state farm or an Allstate

25:42

agent, you are going to get a

25:42

State Farm or an allstate

25:45

product. Which isn't necessarily

25:45

to say that that's a bad thing.

25:51

But that is captive, that is

25:52

right, that's

25:52

getting that's captive, so they

25:55

sell within their realm. So if

25:55

it's a State Farm agent, you're

25:59

going to get a State Farm

25:59

product. If it's an Allstate

26:01

agent, you're going to get an

26:01

Allstate product versus an

26:04

independent agent, like me,

26:04

where I can shop around I can

26:09

look at, it's more of like a

26:09

brokerage position, right? Like

26:12

I can shop different insurance

26:12

companies to get my clients the

26:16

best product at the best rate.

26:16

And usually, that's what it

26:21

comes down to most insurance

26:21

products are going to be 99%.

26:26

Similar in the contract and the

26:26

language, it really comes down

26:30

to cost versus benefit. So an

26:30

independent agent has the

26:36

freedom to look outside of their

26:36

little box, and a captive agent

26:41

lives within their box. That

26:41

being said, a captive agent may

26:45

be able to get you a better

26:45

rate. Because they're within

26:48

their little box, they might

26:48

have different rates that

26:52

they're allowed to sell, they

26:52

collect obviously different

26:55

commission. It's it's a whole

26:55

bigger system kind of behind the

26:59

curtain, but they may be able to

26:59

get a better rate. If that's

27:02

like if there's like a specific

27:02

product that you're interested

27:04

in. If you're just interested in

27:04

like a term life policy, you

27:09

don't really care who owns it.

27:09

You know, you can you can talk

27:13

to an independent agent. And

27:13

usually they can they can check

27:17

tons and tons of different

27:17

companies and get you the best

27:20

product for the best price.

27:23

That was great. That was a great summary.

27:25

Yeah, I think that was that was really well said.

27:27

And I

27:28

I think everything I'm saying is super long winded and you're gonna

27:29

have to cut out like 90% of it.

27:33

No,

27:33

that's Chris's job.

27:36

That sounds like

27:36

a future Chris problems. Well,

27:38

yeah, we don't have to worry about that right now. You can just keep talking. Now,

27:40

I was gonna I was gonna add to

27:43

that. Because on your point

27:43

there each insurance company,

27:49

yes, they're competing across

27:49

the broad spectrum, but they

27:52

also tend to try to

27:52

differentiate themselves in

27:54

certain ways. So they tend to

27:54

try to have certain areas that

27:58

they can beat the competition,

27:58

either in additional features,

28:03

or maybe lower premium,

28:03

something along those lines.

28:07

Right, right. Yeah, if you

28:07

bundle or something along those

28:09

lines. And so by way of example,

28:09

when Jackson national life was

28:14

first created, their founder

28:14

specialized the company in

28:19

offering insurance life

28:19

insurance, to smokers, that was

28:24

their specialty. So where other

28:24

companies are either going to

28:27

list you as a substandard risk

28:27

and charge a higher premium, or

28:32

they're not going to insure you

28:32

at all, that was their

28:34

specialty, so they could offer

28:34

better premiums to smokers. Now,

28:37

they don't even sell that

28:37

anymore, for the most part. But

28:41

that's to give you an idea that

28:41

each of these companies is going

28:44

to have some potentially some

28:44

form of specialty that they're

28:48

trying to differentiate

28:48

themselves with. And sometimes

28:51

that, you know, oftentimes that

28:51

independent broker is going to

28:53

be able to shop those around.

28:53

Now, if that specialty happens

28:57

to be at that captive agent. The

28:57

only way you're going to get it

29:00

is through that captive agent.

29:03

Sound Yeah,

29:03

absolutely. Well, and mentioning

29:06

that too, with with the shopping

29:06

around, whether it's yourself or

29:09

you having somebody that's

29:09

that's able to look into it for

29:12

you or or anything along those

29:12

lines. We we've discussed in in

29:17

previous episodes, I'd have to

29:17

try and figure out which one it

29:20

was that we specifically talked

29:20

about this but

29:22

I'm sure I can tell you

29:24

I'm sure. But I

29:24

don't I don't want him to

29:28

completely make us look bad. So

29:28

I'm not going to ask him to do

29:30

it.

29:31

I'm already making you look bad.

29:35

We talked about

29:35

the importance of continuing to

29:40

reevaluate where your insurance

29:40

is at maybe yearly. And that

29:45

could be because there's there's

29:45

a new opportunity that developed

29:47

or something in your life may

29:47

have changed. And having

29:50

somebody that can can really

29:50

shop around and look at all

29:53

those things like Charlie like

29:53

like a broker can really help

29:58

offer a lot of that and I I

29:58

experienced that this last year

30:02

where I realized I was paying

30:02

for, for car insurance with a

30:07

company that was that was great.

30:07

And they had great customer

30:09

service. And I really enjoyed

30:09

them. And I'm not going to use

30:13

them by name by any stretch. And

30:13

they probably won't after I tell

30:15

you the story, but I, I called

30:15

them one day and said, Hey, I've

30:20

been doing some shopping around

30:20

and this other company is able

30:23

to offer me coverage at a lower

30:23

rate and actually offered me

30:27

more coverage. And I haven't

30:27

used you guys in years. So I'm

30:32

really paying a lot of extra

30:32

fees. And it's not, it's not in

30:36

my interest anymore to use you

30:36

guys unless you can match the

30:39

rate that you're doing, that

30:39

they're doing. They said, Oh,

30:43

yeah, let's let's have a look.

30:43

Oh, they're they're doing that.

30:46

No, we, we can't do that. I

30:46

said, Okay. Well, I really don't

30:50

want to leave because your

30:50

customer service is great. Oh,

30:52

yeah. It's it's ranked number

30:52

one in the in the nation. Like

30:55

that's, I believe that. And

30:55

especially when I handle these

30:57

phone calls, I, I believe that

30:57

like but if I am paying extra

31:02

money just to have a nice phone

31:02

call every month, then I would

31:05

rather spend the money on a 900

31:05

number, then use this company,

31:09

and I will go with them instead.

31:09

And they said Have a good day,

31:15

sir. And then I no longer use

31:15

them. But it's I think it's

31:21

important to shop around and

31:21

reevaluate some of those things.

31:23

Because then if if you have that

31:23

extra wiggle room, in my case, I

31:27

was able to dedicate those funds

31:27

to go to other things that were

31:30

important to me because of it.

31:30

But just reevaluating is

31:33

important as well.

31:34

Right. And somebody

31:34

else might have said no, I like

31:37

the customer service. I've had

31:37

awful experiences elsewhere,

31:39

I'll pay extra for that.

31:41

Right, which is how I wound up with them in the first place. But then I realized

31:42

that I just I wasn't using them.

31:46

So I didn't even need the

31:46

customer service aspect either.

31:48

And that's so I changed, my

31:48

circumstances changed. And so I

31:52

reevaluate. And I'm, I'm glad I did

31:55

there you go

31:56

I think it's the right thing to do. I mean, especially with I mean, if

31:57

you're young, and when you're

32:02

older, it's a little bit more

32:02

difficult as far as like, the

32:06

different types of products. But

32:06

take for instance, like term

32:08

life, right? In my case, when I

32:08

first got term life, I was like

32:12

25. But you know me back then I

32:12

was like 260, like big boy, when

32:19

I didn't big pants, and now I'm

32:19

down to 220. And believe it or

32:24

not, like even though I was

32:24

healthy, I was a 25 year old

32:27

dude, I was overweight, and that

32:27

changes your rates and stuff

32:30

like that. And then when you

32:30

think about insurance, you're

32:34

not thinking about like your

32:34

overall health, you're thinking

32:36

about usually it's age, age is

32:36

like their big actuarial table,

32:40

right. But then they have

32:40

different grades and ratings are

32:43

associated with overall health.

32:43

And that's why you have to go in

32:45

and get a physical and a blood

32:45

test and stuff like that. But

32:49

most of the companies, I don't

32:49

want to say all. Well, in the

32:55

case of Term life, everything is

32:55

covered. But by law, they have

32:58

to cover your physical prior,

32:58

like you're not, you're not

33:01

going to pay for that if you

33:01

want to reevaluate. It's not

33:03

like a house where if you want

33:03

to refinance, you have to pay

33:06

for the appraisal. If you want a

33:06

new appraisal on you, you call

33:10

your insurance company and say,

33:10

Hey, I'm super, super slim now.

33:16

rock hard abs, I was super fat

33:16

berfore.

33:20

I got the ThighMaster. I'm just saying,

33:22

Yeah, I'm extremely attractive now.

33:27

They give discounts for being attractive

33:30

about to. It's

33:30

once they get a look at all

33:32

this.

33:33

It's why I pay

33:33

the premium premium. But yeah,

33:38

so it's it, just like any and I

33:38

don't want to speak for Sean.

33:42

Right? I don't want to speak for

33:42

financial advisors, because I'm

33:45

not one right. And but it's

33:45

really important to reevaluate

33:48

your finances regularly, right?

33:48

Like you want to do that. And

33:52

when I think of insurance, I

33:52

think of it as a part of your

33:54

financial profile. And if you're

33:54

meeting with your financial

33:58

advisor, you're going over your

33:58

finances at home, or whatever

34:00

you're doing. If you're doing

34:00

that twice a year, you should

34:03

consider doing it with your

34:03

insurance depending on the

34:05

product that you have. Because

34:05

you might be able to keep the

34:08

exact same coverage with the

34:08

exact same company, but pay half

34:12

the price. So

34:13

absolutely.

34:13

Like there's no

34:13

harm in re evaluating. It's not

34:17

gonna hurt it. And some people

34:17

are totally happy paying. Like,

34:21

I don't know, we'll use a rough

34:21

estimate, but like 20 bucks a

34:25

month for their term life,

34:25

right? Because it's cheap, it's

34:28

easy. It comes out. If they go

34:28

down to 17 bucks, is it gonna

34:32

bug them a lot? Well, that $3 is

34:32

$36 a year over 30 years, right?

34:37

Like, it could be expensive,

34:37

right? But is it worth it? Is it

34:42

worth your time? What's your

34:42

time worth stuff like that, but

34:45

in some people's cases, the

34:45

difference could be, you know,

34:48

50 bucks a month, it could be

34:48

100 bucks a month depending on

34:51

the size of your policy

34:51

depending on what the changes

34:54

were and that will equate to a

34:54

lot of money. So

34:58

absolutely

34:59

re Evaluate,

34:59

reassess. Why not? Doesn't hurt?

35:04

Right? Well, and

35:04

then, you know, just like you're

35:07

saying too worst case, you go

35:07

through the revaluation and then

35:10

they, they make that difference

35:10

from the the 20 to the 17 bucks.

35:14

And then you go, Oh, well, you

35:14

know, this, this didn't really

35:17

change much for me, right? I

35:17

don't want to entirely switch

35:20

companies just for this, this

35:20

amount, or, Oh, they do offer

35:25

this, but it's it's even $1

35:25

more. But it's, it's what's

35:28

meeting things that I need right

35:28

now, then that's, that's why

35:32

One, it can also

35:32

go up instead of down to write

35:32

it's important. like, let's say I kept so I

35:36

mean, long story short, right.

35:41

Like I went from 260 to 220, I

35:41

lost 40 pounds, but my insurance

35:46

premium dropped. They went from

35:46

24 to $17. a month, right? For

35:52

me personally.

35:53

Sure.

35:53

And that's not a

35:53

ton of money. But it's a huge

35:57

percentage change, right? But

35:57

the kicker is, is that policy

36:02

that I had was no longer enough

36:02

for what I have now, right?

36:06

Because when I bought that I was

36:06

in my first house, I didn't have

36:09

any kids. I was making a

36:09

different salary working for a

36:13

smaller department at the time.

36:13

And now I'm, you know, in a

36:17

bigger house, I've got two kids.

36:17

I've got a different quality of

36:23

life based on my income now, I

36:23

guess.

36:27

Right,

36:27

but so like, my

36:27

needs have changed, as opposed

36:30

to like the, the the other side

36:30

where things can get better. But

36:36

the cool thing is, is because

36:36

everything kind of all changed

36:39

it at once, I guess you could

36:39

say,

36:41

Sure.

36:43

My rates went

36:43

down. But by keeping my rates

36:46

the same, my coverage went up.

36:46

So kinda like you're saying, I

36:48

don't have to leave the company.

36:48

I like my company I like, you

36:51

know, I do other insurance

36:51

products through them too. And,

36:56

like, they're great. But because

36:56

of everything that went on, I

36:59

had to reevaluate. Was it

36:59

enough? You know, was it being

37:02

supplemented through an

37:02

insurance product that I

37:05

received from my employer,

37:05

which, depending on what you do

37:09

for a living, you may get, you

37:09

know, do you need to maintain

37:12

your existing insurance? If you

37:12

have insurance elsewhere? Do you

37:16

have more debt? Have you bought

37:16

a bigger house? Do you have more

37:18

kids? Are there more

37:18

responsibilities, bigger gaps

37:21

that have to be filled? Should

37:21

you pass? What would you guys

37:24

call it? I think it was, like

37:24

death insurance instead of life

37:27

insurance?

37:28

Death Insurance.

37:28

He does listen.

37:30

Yeah. So like,

37:30

Should you need that death

37:34

insurance? Is it going to be

37:34

enough and things change every

37:38

single year. So I think you guys

37:38

might have talked about it and

37:43

how you can have, like, drawing

37:43

a blank on it, which is great,

37:48

considering I'm responsible for

37:48

selling this stuff, but like the

37:54

face value of a policy can go

37:54

up, it can go down, it can stay

37:57

level. So like, maybe you were

37:57

in a product with a level face

38:03

value. And you you actually

38:03

might benefit from something

38:06

that's going down because your

38:06

debt is decreasing over time,

38:09

and you have everything set up

38:09

and super low interest, like,

38:13

you know, your mortgages, a

38:13

percent or whatever magic number

38:17

that some people might have been

38:17

able to hit and you're like,

38:19

Well, I'm really not going to

38:19

refi that into a 7% or something

38:23

like that. But it makes sense to

38:23

keep your coverage, there might

38:26

be a better product. I mean,

38:26

there's there's so many good

38:29

reasons to reevaluate that,

38:29

like, I don't know, I'm just

38:33

reiterating the same point that

38:33

you've made, and I made, but

38:35

like, just do it doesn't hurt.

38:37

Yeah, absolutely.

38:37

Absolutely. No matter what. And,

38:41

you know, just just like we're

38:41

saying too, if you do it, and

38:44

then you find everything's good,

38:44

great, then you then you have

38:47

that certainty.

38:49

The other cool

38:49

thing, I don't want to keep

38:51

beating on a dead horse, but

38:51

like, let's say, I thought maybe

38:56

I'm healthier, and I'm in better

38:56

shape or whatever. And I could

38:59

get a reduced rate. And I go in,

38:59

and I do my physical on blood

39:05

screen and they go, we can't

39:05

give you a better rate because

39:09

your hair is turning gray. And

39:09

that's terrible news. And I'm so

39:12

sorry. Sorry, Sean. But

39:16

shots fired.

39:17

Yeah. But you

39:17

know, so let's say they discover

39:20

that you have an underlying

39:20

health condition, they can't

39:23

cancel your policy. So like, it

39:23

really is no risk to the

39:27

consumer to do that. And I know

39:27

some people might hesitate

39:31

because they're like, ah, you

39:31

know, I put on some pounds or I

39:33

got a family history of cancer

39:33

and, you know, say let's say for

39:37

instance, you're a firefighter,

39:37

you're in a high risk career,

39:40

you've got a high risk of

39:40

cancer, you might not want to go

39:45

in because you might, they might

39:45

discover you have cancer and

39:48

you're like, well, they're going to shoot my rates up. Well, they don't get to do that. That's the

39:50

cool thing is you're already

39:52

locked into that contract. So

39:52

worse case, and obviously that

39:56

would be a really crappy way to

39:56

find out that you have cancer.

40:00

but they're not going to jack

40:00

your rates up. So there really

40:05

is no risk to the consumer to

40:05

just keep looking.

40:09

I'd say the one the

40:09

one caveat to that would be if

40:12

it was material information that

40:12

you knew about when you filled

40:16

out the application, and we're

40:16

in the first two years of the

40:18

contract, which would be the

40:18

content and contest,

40:21

contestability period. So but

40:21

yes,

40:26

yeah, don't do that.

40:27

Don't do that don't lie on the application, because

40:30

that's the easiest

40:30

thing to garner from that.

40:33

And you want to

40:33

know why they only pay out half

40:35

a percent to 3% of all their

40:35

policies, it's because some

40:39

people, like will buy an

40:39

insurance product, it's like a

40:44

weird way of laundering money,

40:44

but without their, like, they'll

40:48

buy the insurance product,

40:48

knowing that they're dying. But

40:51

then when, like, the insurance

40:51

companies are not just gonna cut

40:54

you a check and be like, Oh,

40:54

well, Bill's dead, you can tell

40:57

because of the way it is, right?

40:57

There, they're still gonna do an

41:01

investigation, like they have to

41:01

receive proof there's, there's

41:05

still hoops you have to jump

41:05

through. And they're, they're

41:08

gonna analyze your contract

41:08

versus whatever they found.

41:12

They're not just going to hand

41:12

out money. So Right.

41:15

Absolutely.

41:16

My question was in

41:16

regard to where you see the

41:20

industry going, in the future,

41:20

both short term and long term.

41:24

And I'll add to that, a couple

41:24

of concepts that we've somewhat

41:29

touched on in the past, and some

41:29

that maybe we haven't. So number

41:34

one, there are a couple of

41:34

different insurance companies

41:38

out there that and this

41:38

probably, this might not

41:42

actually apply to you, given

41:42

your your licenses, but their

41:47

annuity contracts, they swore up

41:47

and down, they were never going

41:51

to go the fee based route. They

41:51

would always be commissioned

41:55

based products. And now of

41:55

course, they've gone the fee

41:57

based route. So that that would

41:57

be one concept. And then another

42:03

is, this was one that Chris and

42:03

I touched on very briefly, in I

42:08

don't remember which episode,

42:08

but we mentioned the idea that

42:12

Social Security has, is facing a

42:12

number of challenges that are

42:15

based on demographics, and that

42:15

life insurance may very well be

42:18

facing some of those same

42:18

challenges associated with those

42:22

demographics in the future. So

42:22

throwing those two things out

42:27

out at you in relation to the

42:27

future of the industry, what are

42:31

your thoughts on those in

42:31

particular, or other ideas that

42:35

I, you know, maybe we haven't

42:35

even addressed

42:38

big guns.

42:39

Yep.

42:40

Cool. So Sean's

42:40

questions? Where do I think the

42:44

insurance industry is going?

42:44

Well, I have a ton of opinions

42:50

on that. The fee based versus

42:50

commission based honestly, I, I

42:56

couldn't I couldn't tell you,

42:56

right. Like, I think that a lot

42:59

of that is probably going to be

42:59

pushed by the brokers

43:03

themselves, because there's an

43:03

opportunity to make more money

43:07

long term, I guess. And but,

43:07

man, it's tough, because, you

43:13

know, you talk about insurance

43:13

companies, especially the ones

43:15

that have annuities. And you

43:15

look at the age and the

43:20

demographic. You know, there's,

43:20

there's so many different I

43:25

don't want to say like,

43:25

environmental factors, but like,

43:30

I think you touched on it a

43:30

little bit earlier in the

43:33

season. Some people kill

43:33

themselves. And

43:36

that's true

43:37

See a higher rate

43:37

of suicide when things are going

43:41

poorly. And so depending on what

43:41

happened,

43:43

like right now,

43:44

like, like right now, so,

43:46

and it's the

43:46

holidays like that never mind.

43:49

But I mean, you see a higher rate of suicide, we

43:49

also have a pandemic that we're

43:53

currently going through. So the

43:53

rate of death is, despite the

43:57

fact that, you know, it's such a

43:57

small percentage of people that

44:00

get sick. It's significantly

44:00

higher than the insurance

44:04

companies have planned for. So

44:04

it's, it's a little worrisome

44:09

because especially with an

44:09

annuity where you have a

44:12

guaranteed payout, and I mean,

44:12

what happens if that company's

44:18

not there, right. Like there's

44:18

there's backup, I guess you

44:21

could say like backup support,

44:21

there's other companies that can

44:23

buy your, your policy, most of

44:23

them are FDIC insured, but

44:28

that's only up to 250,000. So

44:28

like, there's there. It's, it's

44:36

a slippery slope, because

44:36

insurance is like so important.

44:39

But I also think that

44:39

historically, or maybe not

44:42

historically, but recently, over

44:42

the years, insurance companies

44:46

have started to pivot themselves

44:46

to try to be financial advisors,

44:51

like I know guys who sell

44:51

insurance who are selling

44:55

products as an investment right.

44:55

And I think that the The reason

45:00

they're doing that is almost to

45:00

as a hedge, right? Because now

45:05

you have all of these policies

45:05

that are outstanding, and you

45:08

have to have the resources to

45:08

fund those policies should

45:11

something happen, right? Like

45:11

you have all of this outstanding

45:14

liability. How do you pay for

45:14

that should something

45:20

catastrophic appear right. And

45:20

so now you have all kinds of

45:24

different products, right. Like

45:24

you have annuities, you have

45:26

whole life, I mean, whole life's

45:26

been around a while, but you

45:28

have whole life, you've got term

45:28

life, you've got annuities,

45:31

you've got variable annuities,

45:31

you've got indexed annuities,

45:34

you got universal whole life,

45:34

you've got variable whole life,

45:40

I mean, like, all these

45:40

different products, and they're

45:42

advertised totally differently.

45:42

Then like a traditional

45:48

insurance product, where we

45:48

think of insurance as the just

45:51

in case and then you have whole

45:51

life, which is advertised as the

45:54

just in case, but you also get

45:54

your money back. And then you

45:57

have like, Universal Life or

45:57

indexed universal life that says

46:01

what you're going to put in, and

46:01

then you're going to make money,

46:04

but it's also life insurance,

46:04

but it's also making you money.

46:06

And keep in mind, some of these

46:06

you have to have, like you have

46:10

to be licensed through FINRA to

46:10

sell so like, I can't sell

46:13

everything. But like, it's, it's

46:13

tough, right? Because you've

46:18

seen such a big transition in

46:18

the insurance industry as a

46:21

whole. Because a lot of these

46:21

like, like Indexed Universal

46:25

Life didn't exist, like 20 years

46:25

ago, that wasn't a thing. And

46:31

now you have all of these

46:31

insurance companies. And man,

46:35

I've, if the people I work with

46:35

here, some of the things or the

46:38

opinions that I have, I might

46:38

not work there very much longer.

46:41

So because, like I said earlier,

46:41

like the insurance industry is

46:47

about making money, right? Like

46:47

it is about protecting yourself

46:50

with the product. But insurance

46:50

salesmen sell insurance because

46:54

they make money insurance

46:54

companies sell insurance,

46:56

because they make money. There,

46:56

that's the reality of it. And so

46:59

now they're they're being advertising, you have these products that are being

47:01

advertised as like the Swiss

47:04

Army knife, right, like you can

47:04

say, for school or a wedding,

47:06

but it's also insurance, but

47:06

then it's also tied to, you

47:10

know, the s&p 500. And you're

47:10

not going to lose money, because

47:13

it's got a 0% floor. And I mean,

47:13

it's it's so weird, because,

47:19

like, I know, this has nothing

47:19

to do with fee based versus

47:23

commission based, but you start

47:23

looking at, like different

47:28

styles of accounts, kind of like

47:28

that, right? Like, you look at

47:31

an index Universal Life, which

47:31

is technically not a securities

47:34

product, it just follows the

47:34

index. And it gives insurance

47:40

providers or insurance brokers

47:40

or producers, the ability to

47:45

sell these products that are

47:45

almost being advertised kind of

47:49

like as an investment strategy.

47:49

And from where I sit, if, if I'm

47:56

selling somebody, a product,

47:56

right, like, if I'm selling you

48:00

term life, you are going to pay

48:00

a flat rate every single month,

48:05

for a level, you know, face

48:05

value of the product, right?

48:10

Like, I know exactly what you're

48:10

going to pay, you know exactly

48:13

how much you're going to get paid out should something happen. But then you start

48:15

looking at like an IUL. And you

48:22

have the opportunity to

48:22

potentially make money, right?

48:27

Like your money is going in, and

48:27

it can make you more money. That

48:31

being said, if I'm the sales,

48:34

it doesn't make sense that I'm

48:34

only making money off of like a

48:38

flat rate premium, when the face

48:38

value of your policy could be

48:44

going up, right? Like, as a

48:44

consumer, absolutely. Like, I

48:48

want no offense to the other

48:48

insurance salesman, right. But

48:52

like, I'm not here to get you

48:52

paid. Like that's not as a

48:56

consumer, I'm not here to pay

48:56

the insurance salesman. But as

49:00

the insurance salesman, if I

49:00

sell you a product and you end

49:02

up making money on it. The same

49:02

way that you know, a an

49:08

investment advisor or a

49:08

financial adviser, somebody

49:11

that's working with you on your

49:11

401k They're making usually a

49:15

percentage of your assets under

49:15

management. Now, you've watched

49:19

insurance transition to all

49:19

these different products that

49:22

are disguised as assets under

49:22

management, but there's no

49:28

variation in compensation. But

49:28

the kicker is, is how do the

49:34

insurance companies make more

49:34

money, right? And they said,

49:37

we're just gonna be you know,

49:37

flat rate, we're just going to

49:40

be fee based. Like, you look at

49:40

that, and they're already making

49:47

money on top right, because it's

49:47

usually got a cap. I think right

49:50

now like most of the products

49:50

are capped at between seven and

49:53

12%. So they're already making

49:53

money over that seven to 12%,

49:57

but they're still managing a

49:57

certain amount of assets. sets

50:00

that you've been making. So like

50:00

they have the potential to make

50:03

more money as things go on. And

50:03

that's like it is capitalism,

50:10

and they are going to do

50:10

everything they can to make kind

50:14

of as much money as they can,

50:14

because that's the goal,

50:17

right?

50:19

And they're gonna

50:19

make more money off of a

50:21

commission based schedule than a

50:21

fee based schedule. So, like, it

50:26

would be cool, if everybody

50:26

stuck to their word and was

50:29

like, we are only going to be

50:29

the good guy, we are only going

50:32

to charge you this flat rate.

50:32

But people don't have billions

50:37

of dollars, because they were

50:37

like, I'm gonna do the right

50:40

thing. And, you know, feed the

50:40

world population for a year.

50:44

Right? So they're, they're gonna

50:44

do what they can to make more

50:47

money. And it's, and I know

50:47

that, like, I've had the

50:51

conversation with Chris, before

50:51

I talked to you, Sean. But like,

50:55

that's, that's kind of the world

50:55

we live in, right? Like these

50:57

people are going to get in. So

50:57

I'm never going to be a good

51:01

insurance salesman. But you

51:01

know, at the end of the day,

51:06

like, the producers are there to

51:06

make money the companies are

51:09

there to make money. Yeah, they

51:09

made promises. But ultimately,

51:13

their their job is to make as

51:13

much money as they can, as

51:17

quickly as they can, and then

51:17

make money off their money and

51:19

stuff like that. So yeah, I

51:19

think I think commission based

51:25

is going to be I do think it's

51:25

the future. Like, I don't think

51:30

there's any way of avoiding it,

51:30

especially with the the style

51:34

of, or the type of product

51:34

that's being sold, obviously,

51:38

like Term Life is still the

51:38

number one product that's being

51:41

sold, right? Like that's the

51:41

most access product by most

51:44

people, at least, anecdotally,

51:44

right. Like, I can tell you more

51:48

people want that than anything

51:48

else. But for the remainder of

51:53

these products, they're there,

51:53

they have more opportunities to

51:58

make more money, and still be

51:58

able to sell it to you as a

52:02

product that is also going to

52:02

make you money. Right. So do I

52:07

think that that's the future?

52:07

Absolutely. Do I think that I

52:10

agree with it? Not necessarily.

52:10

But do I understand why? Yeah,

52:15

definitely. And then, what was

52:15

your second question? Because I

52:19

got hung up on that one.

52:21

That's okay. That's

52:21

okay. I'll refresh on that. I

52:23

want to add two things. Number

52:23

one, Charlie's operating at a

52:27

bit of a disadvantage, because

52:27

there are a couple of episodes

52:30

that we have recorded. That may

52:30

come out before this. My point

52:35

being is we've talked about some

52:35

of these things that Charlie has

52:38

not heard before,

52:40

okay.

52:41

And so if somebody

52:41

hears, actually listens to it,

52:45

and then listens to this. That's

52:45

why. So anyway, the the other

52:55

thing that I would add is one of

52:55

the underlying beauties of

53:02

capitalism that I think gets

53:02

downplayed is, every time you

53:07

spend money, it's the equivalent

53:07

of voting, you're voting with

53:11

your dollar. And you you, you

53:11

have more power to vote with

53:15

that than anything else. So yes,

53:15

people in business are out to

53:21

make money, they wouldn't be in

53:21

business otherwise, but you have

53:26

the power to determine who

53:26

succeeds who gets that money.

53:33

And going back to that issue of

53:33

trust, and finding the people

53:37

that you can trust and are

53:37

looking out for your best

53:40

interest and, you know, feeding

53:40

those people as opposed to

53:45

others. The that capitalism

53:45

thing, coin has both sides, and

53:52

I think it gives the the

53:52

consumer just as much power as

53:58

well. So getting back to my, the

53:58

secondary question there that

54:04

was in regards to what was my

54:04

secondary question?

54:09

Well, before you

54:09

do that, before, before you do

54:12

that. That's, that's, that's me

54:12

snapping. It's my it's my

54:17

applause because your, your,

54:17

your capitalism is voting is

54:22

poetic. I liked it. Alright, so

54:22

yeah, what was your secondary

54:28

part where you got confused?

54:30

How demographics

54:30

will impact the industry going

54:37

forward? And if you'd like I can

54:37

kind of fill you in on what we

54:39

we've said previously.

54:41

Yeah. Why don't we start there's been so that I

54:41

can try to add to it.

54:45

So the concept that

54:45

I've thrown out there is that

54:51

Social Security has faced an

54:51

issue with the basically, the

54:55

baby boomer generation being a

54:55

larger generation than the

54:59

Generations Under it that are

54:59

paying into Social Security. So

55:04

you have a larger demographic

55:04

that is retiring and living

55:07

longer and therefore pulling on

55:07

social security with a smaller

55:12

group of smaller demographics

55:12

paying into it. So I think at

55:16

one point in time that we're,

55:16

you know, roughly what was it 16

55:22

people paying into Social

55:22

Security for every one that's

55:25

drawing, and now we're at like,

55:25

less than three people paying in

55:28

for every one that's drawing or something along those lines,

55:30

It's like two

55:30

point seven or something like

55:32

that.

55:32

Yeah, exactly. So.

55:32

And that same. And you alluded

55:40

to this, too, as you were

55:40

talking about the, you know,

55:42

variety of products, and all of

55:42

those products out there that

55:46

ultimately have liabilities

55:46

associated with them. But

55:50

eventually, that same concept.

55:50

Demographics essentially dictate

55:56

that the same thing could could

55:56

be a challenge for life

56:00

insurance companies, as well.

56:00

And I've also suggested that

56:04

we've seen a little bit of that

56:04

in terms of the profit margins

56:09

of many insurance companies,

56:09

when you look at premiums versus

56:15

liabilities paid out. And, and

56:15

that's not completely

56:20

demographics. Some of that just

56:20

has to do with different age

56:23

groups being interested in

56:23

different types of products,

56:27

like you talked about term

56:27

insurance versus, you know, some

56:30

of the younger generations are

56:30

not as interested or in whole

56:35

life or something along those

56:35

lines. So that's kind of what

56:38

we've touched on. It's been very

56:38

brief in the past, but wanted to

56:42

get your, your take as well. Or

56:42

maybe there's something else

56:45

that you'd like to add in there, too.

56:47

All right. Let's

56:47

talk about the current

56:51

demographics and how they're

56:51

impacting the future of life

56:55

insurance. So how do I think

56:55

it's gonna go right, like,

56:59

everything's my opinion, some of

56:59

it's fact based, some of it's

57:02

just like, totally gut based? I,

57:06

I think that kind

57:06

of like anything else, they're

57:06

That's fair. gonna find a way to survive. You

57:10

know, Social Security is unique

57:15

as it functions as kind of a big

57:15

pot. And granted, some of that

57:20

money is invested. Right. But

57:20

it's usually very low risk. It's

57:24

not like they're throwing it

57:24

into startup companies, right?

57:27

Like, they're not just saying,

57:27

like, Oh, I wonder how much

57:29

money we can make with all these

57:29

other people's money. But the

57:33

same time It by invested? You

57:33

mean a line item on a ledger

57:35

somewhere in the IRS' computer

57:35

system?

57:39

Yeah.

57:40

That of money

57:40

that's already been used, then.

57:42

Yes. Sure

57:43

I mean, you know

57:43

what I mean, but like,

57:47

Oh, yes. Oh, yes.

57:47

I'm just giving you a hard time.

57:49

But this the same thing kind of goes

57:50

with insurance. I think what a

57:54

lot of people don't know about

57:54

insurance companies is they

57:58

don't just take your money and

57:58

put it in their pocket and hold

58:01

it for a rainy day, and pool it

58:01

in some big Scrooge McDuck,

58:05

safe, right. Like, they're,

58:05

they're doing things with that

58:09

money to make money. So they're

58:09

taking your premiums and they're

58:13

investing your premiums, they

58:13

are making money, the same way

58:16

that you as a consumer can make

58:16

money through a traditional

58:19

retirement accounts, your

58:19

qualified accounts, or your non

58:21

qualified accounts, whatever you

58:21

whatever you're doing to make

58:24

money. The insurance companies

58:24

are doing the same thing. The

58:27

insurance companies obviously

58:27

have people that they employ,

58:31

they, you know, they have

58:31

really, really smart people that

58:34

are determining all their

58:34

actuarial tables for payouts on

58:37

the consumer level, but on the

58:37

same side, or on the other side,

58:41

they have financial advisors of

58:41

their own that are saying like,

58:43

hey, you know, this is a good

58:43

opportunity. We think based on

58:47

market trends, this is where

58:47

we're going to put the money.

58:49

Granted, they're not they're not

58:49

doing like high risk investing.

58:52

They're not they're not a 22

58:52

year old, just getting into the

58:54

stock market saying, Make me as

58:54

much money as possible right

58:57

now. So I can compound that

58:57

interest over time, but they are

59:00

making money. So they're taking

59:00

your money to make more money.

59:04

And that's where I think that

59:04

they're gonna have to start

59:07

pivoting in order to survive,

59:07

because like you said, their

59:10

their premiums are, or I guess

59:10

their rate of premium is coming

59:15

down, because not as many people

59:15

are as interested. And then you

59:20

run into what are they called?

59:20

The Gen Xers. What's the

59:23

generation below us, Chris?

59:26

The below us?

59:29

Yeah,

59:29

like, younger to us,

59:31

because we're millennials, right?

59:33

Yeah, I think

59:33

that could be Gen Z, perhaps.

59:37

I don't know what

59:37

they're, they're the Gen letters

59:40

There's gen x and z

59:40

isn't there at this point.

59:43

Yes.

59:43

I'm getting old

59:44

Well, but also

59:44

people tend to just generalize

59:47

the, the millennial thing. They

59:47

pretty much say anybody that

59:51

meets our age range, and newer,

59:51

they tend to call Millennials

59:55

even though it's inaccurate

59:55

which anymore just means anybody

59:58

40 years old and young. But I

59:58

digress.

1:00:02

We'll just call

1:00:02

them the, as an elder

1:00:04

millennial, I'll call them The

1:00:04

juvinile millenial. But you

1:00:08

know, the other thing, and it

1:00:08

kind of ties back to what I said

1:00:12

at the beginning is insurance

1:00:12

really should only be dictated

1:00:16

by needs. And based on the the

1:00:16

newer demographic, there's a

1:00:20

much lower rate of

1:00:20

homeownership, which in most

1:00:23

cases, is the number one source

1:00:23

of debt, right? Or at least a

1:00:27

largest source of debt. And a

1:00:27

lot of people don't look at it

1:00:29

Love that credit

1:00:29

card.

1:00:31

as debt because you're gaining

1:00:31

equity. And you're, you know,

1:00:35

you're paying towards your

1:00:35

principal. So it's really not

1:00:38

like a ton. But that is money

1:00:38

that you've borrowed, right?

1:00:42

Like, that is not your money,

1:00:42

you're renting the house from

1:00:46

the bank for 30 years. And so

1:00:46

when you think about life

1:00:49

insurance, you want to make sure

1:00:49

that you can cover your rent,

1:00:53

right? But if they're not

1:00:53

renting a house, if they don't

1:00:57

have that giant, massive sum of

1:00:57

debt, they have no need. So if

1:01:01

there's no need, then they're

1:01:01

not going to go forth and

1:01:05

purchase a $400,000 term life

1:01:05

policy to cover zero debt.

1:01:08

Obviously, the avocado toast

1:01:08

credit card might be pretty high

1:01:12

or whatever.

1:01:14

Yeah, I mean, I

1:01:14

love avocado toast. It's like

1:01:18

the my favorite thing to make in

1:01:18

my house. But

1:01:21

I write millennial in it.

1:01:23

Yeah, the only reason I have my house

1:01:23

was to make homemade avocado

1:01:27

toast. I'll circle it back

1:01:27

around. Like it, a lot of things

1:01:35

are gonna change within the

1:01:35

industry. And I think that the

1:01:38

biggest thing that they're going

1:01:38

to have to change is basically

1:01:40

their investment strategy. Right

1:01:40

now, it's still, as far as I

1:01:45

know, right? Because I don't I

1:01:45

don't see where they're putting

1:01:47

their money. Most of us don't

1:01:47

see where they're putting their

1:01:49

money until well, after the

1:01:49

fact. But most of it's fairly

1:01:52

conservative, and it's blown,

1:01:54

don't they have

1:01:54

some restrictions, regulatory

1:01:57

wise in terms of how aggressive

1:01:57

they can invest?

1:02:00

So yes, but I

1:02:00

still don't think that they've

1:02:03

reached the pinnacle, right?

1:02:03

Like, I don't think I don't, and

1:02:06

I don't know for sure, right?

1:02:06

Like, I'm, I'm totally, this is

1:02:10

all opinion right here. I don't

1:02:10

know, if they're just like

1:02:12

slamming it all, like if their

1:02:12

foot is on the gas as hard as it

1:02:16

can be, and they're like,

1:02:16

invest, invest, invest, if we go

1:02:18

belly up, whatever, you know,

1:02:18

the government will take care of

1:02:22

us, which, if you're already

1:02:22

talking about Social Security,

1:02:27

we're doing it, we're doing a great job. But

1:02:29

right well

1:02:31

but you know, I think that they're gonna have to change their strategy. And I

1:02:32

think that one of the ways that

1:02:35

obviously they're doing that is

1:02:35

the fee versus commission based,

1:02:39

because it gives them an

1:02:39

opportunity to make more money.

1:02:42

And just like any product, they

1:02:42

can raise the price, you know,

1:02:47

the rate of inflation is

1:02:47

obviously higher. And as things

1:02:51

change, like, regardless of the

1:02:51

value of the dollar, they can

1:02:57

increase their profit margins by

1:02:57

increasing their price. And even

1:03:01

if that's only by a couple of

1:03:01

bucks here and there, that still

1:03:05

overall can be a pretty massive

1:03:05

percentage, depending on what

1:03:09

the majority of their policies

1:03:09

are. But like, if you look at

1:03:14

some of their products, like

1:03:14

variable, universal life, or

1:03:17

indexed universal life, they

1:03:17

already take a cut of the

1:03:21

investment that that person is

1:03:21

making. And this is just kind of

1:03:24

like another way that they can

1:03:24

do it is by dropping like on a

1:03:28

on an IUL, they could drop that

1:03:28

ceiling from say, 9% to 7%.

1:03:33

Moving forward, and let's assume

1:03:33

that the market is continuing

1:03:37

its current trajectory, they're

1:03:37

gonna make an additional 2% on

1:03:41

that money that's invested. So

1:03:41

it's, it's kind of like any

1:03:44

product is, at least where I sit

1:03:44

is they will find a way to

1:03:48

survive. I don't know how

1:03:48

they're gonna go about, I guess,

1:03:55

increasing their customer base,

1:03:55

because like I said, it should

1:03:59

be needs based. It shouldn't be

1:03:59

just a salesman saying you need

1:04:04

life insurance, but it's gonna

1:04:04

happen, we're gonna see kind of

1:04:10

like a vicious cycle. I mean, we

1:04:10

live in Colorado, or some of us

1:04:15

live in Colorado, where I mean,

1:04:15

my house price is skyrocketed.

1:04:19

My first house I bought, went up

1:04:19

by like, 30%, over four years,

1:04:24

and I was able to sell that buy

1:04:24

a new house, and it's already

1:04:27

gone up by 10% in a year. So, I

1:04:27

mean, you look at that cost. But

1:04:32

the reality is, is that's not

1:04:32

permanent. It's not going to

1:04:35

stay like that. Just like these

1:04:35

baby. These baby boomers that

1:04:38

sounded so millennial of me, but

1:04:38

eventually, there will be too

1:04:44

many houses for people. Granted,

1:04:44

it's not going to be next year.

1:04:47

It's not going to be 20 years

1:04:47

from now. But it will eventually

1:04:53

change like it will ebb and it

1:04:53

will flow and as it does that,

1:04:57

you're going to see an increase

1:04:57

in need for that. like life

1:05:00

insurance, and this is where

1:05:00

it's going to get more

1:05:03

profitable, I think for the

1:05:03

insurance companies is the 22

1:05:07

year olds aren't buying houses

1:05:07

like they once were. But they're

1:05:11

gonna buy them when they're 35.

1:05:11

And when they're 35, the

1:05:15

insurance companies are taking

1:05:15

more risk, and what's associated

1:05:18

with that risk is a higher cost

1:05:18

to the consumer. They're likely,

1:05:22

I mean, they're still very

1:05:22

unlikely to pay out on most of

1:05:27

their policies, depending on the

1:05:27

type of policy and the ones that

1:05:31

are guaranteed to pay out like a

1:05:31

whole life and indexed universal

1:05:34

life or variable life stuff like

1:05:34

that. They're, they're

1:05:37

guaranteed to make money off of

1:05:37

that, or they wouldn't be

1:05:39

selling it so on the products

1:05:39

that they could potentially be

1:05:42

losing, or that they're unable

1:05:42

to sell right now, just because

1:05:45

of the demographic that will

1:05:45

change. And when it does change,

1:05:47

I think it's going to become

1:05:47

more profitable for the

1:05:50

insurance companies because

1:05:50

they're going to be able to

1:05:53

charge whatever they want at

1:05:53

that point. Because these people

1:05:56

didn't get in when they were

1:05:56

young. And it was cheap. And

1:05:58

their financial adviser said,

1:05:58

hey, you know, you might want to

1:06:01

consider getting in before

1:06:01

you're 25. Because your rates

1:06:03

are going to change, hey, you might want to consider getting in before you're 30 Because your

1:06:05

rates are going to change. Well,

1:06:08

they didn't. So the rates are

1:06:08

going to change, and it's going

1:06:11

to be more expensive. And the

1:06:11

associated expense is going to

1:06:16

be moved forward to the company

1:06:16

like that's, that's how I think

1:06:20

it's going to happen. It's going

1:06:20

to be kind of like a big circle.

1:06:23

Do I think they'll cease to

1:06:23

exist? Probably not. Do I think

1:06:26

that they're going to raise

1:06:26

prices? Most definitely. Do I

1:06:28

think that they're going to find a way to make more money off of the products that are already

1:06:30

out there? Definitely. And do I

1:06:33

think that they'll figure out a way to make more money when people get older and start

1:06:35

getting into these products?

1:06:38

That's 100%. I can guarantee

1:06:38

that.

1:06:41

Yeah, I think

1:06:41

those are all solid points.

1:06:44

Really

1:06:45

That's a great summary. I liked it.

1:06:47

Well, I mean, I'll tell you what I was, I was thinking about kind of circling

1:06:49

back a little bit wrapping up, I

1:06:53

guess is probably the the right

1:06:53

term. Sean, did you did you want

1:06:57

to touch on anything else here

1:06:57

specifically?

1:07:01

I'm good

1:07:02

Okay. Cool. Well, then I want to I

1:07:03

want to go ahead and kind of get

1:07:06

to wrapping up. But part of the

1:07:06

wrapping up is I wanted to also

1:07:11

touch on things with Charlie a

1:07:11

little bit. Because as we're

1:07:13

wrapping up, we appreciate

1:07:13

Charlie, meeting up with us and

1:07:17

going over all this stuff today,

1:07:17

because I think we hit some some

1:07:20

solid subjects and had some

1:07:20

solid summaries, even in the

1:07:24

process. But you also do have a

1:07:24

podcast that you're planning to

1:07:28

start that you have started

1:07:28

coming up here soon. Do you want

1:07:31

to do want to kind of talk about

1:07:31

that self promote a little bit

1:07:33

all of my long

1:07:33

winded summaries? I

1:07:36

Yes, you know,

1:07:36

now now people can go Oh, but I

1:07:39

love to the sound of those

1:07:39

summaries. So what? What's this

1:07:42

podcast that the long winded

1:07:42

summary guys going to be doing

1:07:45

here in the future?

1:07:46

Well, it's, it's alright, what is the

1:07:47

podcast? So it's gonna be it's

1:07:53

not out yet. It's still in

1:07:53

production. We've done the, I

1:07:57

guess, like first phase where we

1:07:57

started writing down kind of

1:07:59

like our key elements and what

1:07:59

we're going to talk about, but

1:08:04

as you know, I'm a firefighter

1:08:04

paramedic. So I have a different

1:08:08

outlook on a lot of things than

1:08:08

I think, some people and it just

1:08:13

a different perspective,

1:08:13

different life experiences,

1:08:16

stuff like that. And then my

1:08:16

buddy, who I've known for, ever,

1:08:22

is a police officer in

1:08:22

California. And so he has

1:08:27

different experiences than I do,

1:08:27

and usually most everyone, and I

1:08:31

think that some of our lifestyle

1:08:31

aspects have contributed to our

1:08:38

ability to parent and what we do

1:08:38

as fathers. So what our podcast

1:08:43

is, we're gonna call it code

1:08:43

four fathers. So keep your eye

1:08:46

out. We already have the Twitter

1:08:46

handle and the Instagram and all

1:08:49

that stuff. So if you're trying

1:08:49

to snake it, good luck.

1:08:51

Hopefully, it'll be out by the

1:08:51

time this podcast releases

1:08:54

anyway,

1:08:54

in July,

1:08:55

in July. So, so

1:08:55

yes, because I'm gonna be way

1:09:00

faster at editing than Chris.

1:09:01

That's not true.

1:09:02

No, it's not true at all. I don't know what I'm doing. But, but the podcast is

1:09:04

basically going to be two first

1:09:09

responders kind of talking about

1:09:09

parenting. And there's obviously

1:09:12

a lot of parenting podcasts out

1:09:12

there. But this one's going to

1:09:15

be different, because this one

1:09:15

isn't going to be all sunshine

1:09:17

and rainbows. It's not going to

1:09:17

be all happiness and all my

1:09:20

babies the best and all that

1:09:20

stuff. A lot of it's going to be

1:09:22

talking about kind of some of

1:09:22

the hurdles that we've

1:09:25

experienced as newer parents,

1:09:25

and what we've done to overcome

1:09:29

them, and what our jobs have had

1:09:29

as far as an impact on what we

1:09:36

do as parents. So just to add

1:09:36

one more thing to my plate.

1:09:41

That's another thing that we've

1:09:41

gotten in the works, but it

1:09:44

really is going to be a

1:09:44

parenting podcast for everyone.

1:09:47

Obviously, we are going to be a

1:09:47

little bit geared more towards

1:09:50

fathers. Whether you're a first

1:09:50

responder or not, hopefully

1:09:53

everything will apply to you.

1:09:53

I'm sure you can hear my kids in

1:09:56

the background just like doing

1:09:56

their thing.

1:09:58

Shameless plug with the Kids in the background

1:10:00

shameless plug with the kids in the background. But we basically created ideals

1:10:03

based on what we do as first

1:10:08

responders and kind of the

1:10:08

different. I don't even know

1:10:12

like, I wouldn't call it an

1:10:12

ideal. But like, as a, as a

1:10:16

firefighter, I look at things a

1:10:16

little bit differently. I'm very

1:10:20

much a type A personality, and

1:10:20

it plays into what I do for a

1:10:25

living. And I transition a lot

1:10:25

of those aspects to home, which

1:10:30

can be healthy and unhealthy.

1:10:30

And we're going to talk about

1:10:32

that. And

1:10:34

I understand Yeah,

1:10:36

but, but it also

1:10:36

allows me kind of a different

1:10:39

view on parenting. And so it's

1:10:39

kind of just our way of getting

1:10:43

it out there that not everything

1:10:43

has to be HGTV and Instagram,

1:10:47

happy puppies, babies, all that

1:10:47

stuff. That there there are some

1:10:51

downsides. There are some upsides there are some things that we've experienced that have

1:10:53

helped us career wise as

1:10:56

parents, and we want to make

1:10:56

sure that we share them with

1:11:00

everyone. Plus, it'll be fun.

1:11:02

Yeah, I totally

1:11:02

agree. I think that'd be really

1:11:05

cool. I'm looking forward to it

1:11:05

personally. Okay, cool. Well, so

1:11:09

look out for it for for code

1:11:09

four, I'm sorry, code four

1:11:12

code four fathers.

1:11:14

Okay, look out

1:11:14

for it. Code four fathers.

1:11:17

That'll be coming to,

1:11:19

as the non

1:11:19

firefighter in the group is code

1:11:22

four something in particular, or

1:11:25

for the civilian here,

1:11:27

nerd.

1:11:29

It's the code

1:11:29

that's pretty widely used, not

1:11:33

everywhere, but very widely used

1:11:33

as the all clear everything is

1:11:37

okay. So if they call you on the

1:11:37

radio and ask for a status

1:11:42

check, and you say code four

1:11:42

they say, everything is clear,

1:11:44

I'm safe, everything is good.

1:11:44

And that's

1:11:47

Gotcha.

1:11:48

The nod to it

1:11:49

Thank you for that,

1:11:51

you know, there

1:11:51

there might be some crazy things

1:11:53

happening. But you know, right

1:11:53

now, everything's code four

1:11:57

Yeah, we smooth,

1:11:57

right. It's also a play on

1:12:00

words. We haven't. I mean, we

1:12:00

haven't finalized it, but we're

1:12:05

creating it now. Like the 10

1:12:05

commandments, and I don't want

1:12:07

to put a number on it. But it's

1:12:07

actually a code four fathers. So

1:12:11

like, to live by. But it is code

1:12:11

and then the number 4 fathers.

1:12:17

Because we're super cool. And

1:12:17

like play on words. And he's a

1:12:19

cop, and he's always like, I'm,

1:12:19

code four brother, like,use

1:12:23

English stupid. No, he's never

1:12:23

actually said that, but I really

1:12:30

hope that makes it into this

1:12:30

podcast, so

1:12:32

he can hear that. But

1:12:36

yeah, so we've actually created

1:12:36

a code to live by. And it's just

1:12:40

different tenets that allow us

1:12:40

to be better fathers, and to

1:12:43

overcome a lot of the hardship

1:12:43

that our careers have put on us

1:12:46

on our home life. And, you know,

1:12:46

it's not just first responders

1:12:50

that struggle at home, or have

1:12:50

these hurdles that we have to

1:12:53

get over. Everybody has

1:12:53

struggles. And so this is just

1:12:56

kind of some rules that we live

1:12:56

by, to make sure that we're

1:12:58

always putting our kids and our

1:12:58

families first, just like we put

1:13:01

everybody else first, when we're

1:13:01

work, we want to make sure that,

1:13:04

you know, our families are

1:13:04

coming first at home. So it's,

1:13:06

it is the code four fathers by

1:13:06

the code for fathers,

1:13:11

you know, you

1:13:11

know, what you should do is you

1:13:13

should do like

1:13:14

patent pending, copyright?

1:13:15

So, you should do

1:13:15

like, sub codes within the code.

1:13:19

So, like, you know, not, you

1:13:19

know, I understand not 10

1:13:21

commandments or whatever, but

1:13:21

like, you know, the, the the

1:13:25

10th code is to not sweat the

1:13:25

small stuff. But then you have

1:13:30

an episode where you talk about,

1:13:30

sometimes the small stuff is

1:13:34

those sleepless nights, and that

1:13:34

was the third thing you talked

1:13:37

about in the 10th of not

1:13:37

sweating the small stuff like

1:13:42

my, my 10 Three, my code 10

1:13:42

Three is really wearing on me

1:13:45

right now. Like, oh, man, you

1:13:45

got to get some more sleep.

1:13:48

You really need a 10 one brother. It's funny you

1:13:49

said that, because that is one

1:13:55

of them.

1:13:56

Oh, that's great.

1:13:57

You nailed it.

1:13:58

Well, it's because I trie to not sweat

1:13:59

the small stuff and tried to

1:14:02

stay code four brother.

1:14:04

You live the life brother.

1:14:08

Cool. All right.

1:14:08

Well, then, let me let me wrap

1:14:11

this up. Thank you again, Mr.

1:14:11

Charlie, for joining us out here

1:14:16

today and helping us put a a

1:14:16

bonus button. I was gonna say

1:14:20

put a button but it's really

1:14:20

like a bonus button, bonus

1:14:22

episode bonus button on to the

1:14:22

season and kind of knocking this

1:14:27

out and finishing out with us. I

1:14:27

appreciate it. And appreciate

1:14:31

your time with us today.

1:14:33

Happy to be here.

1:14:34

And

1:14:35

It was great having

1:14:35

you, lots of good information.

1:14:37

Yeah, it really was.

1:14:39

I'm super happy

1:14:39

that I got to be on the podcast

1:14:41

because I'm a truth about

1:14:41

investing back to basics nerd.

1:14:46

Yeah, at least

1:14:46

our number two fan. Maybe two,

1:14:50

I think is what's

1:14:50

his name, John. The guy that

1:14:52

runs around to the libraries and

1:14:52

downloads it 20 times I'm pretty

1:14:55

sure but I've got John beat

1:14:59

yeah, all right.

1:14:59

John, got your work cut out for

1:15:01

you,

1:15:02

Bring it on John.

1:15:04

Well, thank you

1:15:04

again, everybody for coming out

1:15:07

and listening to us. We

1:15:07

appreciate you hope these were

1:15:10

more tools for the toolbox. And

1:15:10

thank you for taking the time to

1:15:14

want to learn how to better

1:15:14

yourselves. And thank you for

1:15:17

listening to the truth about

1:15:17

investing back to basics. My

1:15:21

name is Chris Holling.

1:15:22

I'm Sean Cooper

1:15:23

and our guest with us,

1:15:25

Charlie Coyle,

1:15:27

and we will catch

1:15:27

you on the next episode the next

1:15:30

season of The Truth about

1:15:30

investing back to basics.

1:15:35

Podcast Disclaimer, disclaimer.

1:15:35

The disclaimer following this

1:15:41

disclaimer, is the disclaimer

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1:15:44

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1:15:47

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1:15:47

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1:15:50

hear in each one of our

1:15:50

episodes. We hope you enjoy it

1:15:55

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1:15:55

making it. All content on this

1:16:00

podcast and accompanying

1:16:00

transcript is for informational

1:16:03

purposes only. Opinions

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expressed herein by Sean Cooper

1:16:07

are solely those of fit

1:16:07

financial consulting, LLC unless

1:16:10

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securities administrator. Thank

1:17:51

you. And good night.

1:17:54

Yeah, are you going to cut out all these spikes then

1:17:56

maybe I'll consider it

1:17:57

It's almost fun at this point,

1:17:59

I might just

1:17:59

leave it at this point.

1:18:01

I out of all the times you said this is going to be a nightmare to edit. That's

1:18:03

why I keep doing this and going

1:18:07

on. Because it's fun for me.

1:18:10

As Sean

1:18:10

experiences sometimes he does

1:18:13

that. And then he remains the

1:18:13

antagonist in the recording. And

1:18:19

I say so maybe I'll just leave

1:18:19

it and goes, Yeah, sure,

1:18:21

whatever.

1:18:21

Sometimes I really do just disappear

1:18:22

completely.

1:18:25

That's true.

1:18:26

So I want you to know that through that whole exchange, part of me just

1:18:28

started, like, in my head. I was

1:18:31

like I was just gonna say and

1:18:31

I'm Charlie Coyle and just like,

1:18:34

make it really hard for you to edit

1:18:36

It would have

1:18:36

matched up and it's going to be

1:18:39

great too, because you you

1:18:39

wouldn't even know. Like, I

1:18:43

tried to mess with him so hard.

1:18:45

I'm Charlie Koyle.

1:18:46

I'll see you

1:18:46

already told me you already did

1:18:48

it. You already did the I'm

1:18:48

Charlie Koyle

1:18:50

and I'm Charlie Koyle. I'm Charlie Koyle. You're gonna

1:18:52

have seven different ones to

1:18:55

pick from.

1:18:56

I see how it is

1:18:56

Charlie Koyle

1:19:03

that you will have to edit out.

1:19:07

Oh, Sean, with his standards.

1:19:10

Well, yeah, you

1:19:10

can't put that in there. Well,

1:19:12

I mean, says you

1:19:12

I can't do anything once.

1:19:15

I'm not in

1:19:15

control. And I'm Charlie Koyle.

1:19:24

Well, I just want to know if

1:19:24

everything I said was in line

1:19:26

with everything you guys talked

1:19:26

about in your previous episodes,

1:19:29

or if I just totally contradicted everything?

1:19:31

No, no, it was in line. It was very

1:19:32

much in line. I just, if

1:19:36

somebody listened to it, and then they're like, Charlie, you're repeating what they just

1:19:37

said.

1:19:41

I thought you listened,

1:19:42

yeah, exactly.

1:19:43

I'm wicked Smart.

1:19:43

Sean's wicked smart Chris is

1:19:46

there.

1:19:46

wicked smart Marginally,

1:19:46

marginally marginally present.

1:19:56

I'm well

1:19:56

Yeah, it's gonna

1:19:56

be a nice transition into the

1:19:58

next season. Actually, I know

1:19:58

We're gonna touch on Social

1:20:00

Security. So it'll be a nice

1:20:00

little

1:20:03

Taste test to the season I hope.

1:20:07

Maybe depends on

1:20:07

how confused I get

1:20:11

Chris gets nervous

1:20:11

every time I'm like, oh, that's

1:20:13

gonna be an episode two. It

1:20:13

might be five episodes.

1:20:17

Let me tell you

1:20:17

something Charlie, okay, this,

1:20:21

this this may not even make it

1:20:21

into our recording, but this is

1:20:24

exactly how Season Five

1:20:24

appeared. Said hey, looks like

1:20:27

we've got to talk about life

1:20:27

insurance. Do you? Do you want

1:20:30

to do an episode of that? Nah,

1:20:30

it's gonna be more than an

1:20:32

episode. Okay, well, we can do