0:01

I know you'll be.

0:04

Even when times gethard

0:07

and you feel you're in the.

0:12

C see just

0:15

how beautiful life can be.

0:18

When you saften your heart,

0:22

you can finally start

0:27

to live your tu.

0:30

See us life.

0:31

Hello everybody, and welcome back. I

0:34

am here in Miami, Florida on

0:36

my birthday trip with my family.

0:39

I turned thirty five the day this episode

0:42

comes out, which is kind

0:44

of wild because

0:46

thirty felt like a minute ago and

0:49

here I am five years later, and that terrifies

0:52

me how fast it all goes. And

0:55

all I've been trying to do with time

0:57

is learn to relate to it differently, because

1:01

I think we all know there are times in our lives when things

1:03

like fly by because we're rushing, and

1:05

then there are times when things move slowly

1:08

and we savor it. And time is

1:10

always time, but it

1:12

is how we bring our nervous system to the table

1:14

that really changes how things

1:16

feel and the spaciousness that we create.

1:20

Anyway, this is also our season finale,

1:23

and we have a plan to pick back up

1:25

in the fall. I had slated

1:27

this episode out as a solo to impart

1:30

some sort of thirty five years of Wisdom

1:32

upon You, but as the

1:34

days have creeped up closer to

1:37

it. I have not felt like I

1:39

have this. I don't

1:41

know clear wisdom to share with you, and

1:43

anything more profound I feel

1:45

like would be forced. This year was an

1:47

incredibly tough one for me. I went

1:49

through a lot of life

1:52

things, real life things that have

1:55

definitely taught me a lot.

1:57

But in this moment, I don't feel

2:00

like I have a perfect bow to wrap

2:02

on this past year of my

2:04

life, no profound wisdom at

2:06

the surface of my brain. There

2:09

has been devastation. There has

2:11

been surrendering. There has been

2:13

a lot of praying that the worst has been

2:16

behind me. There has been depletion

2:19

and repletion, and I

2:21

think coolest of all, there has

2:23

been gratitude. Without practicing

2:25

like gratitude with a gratitude journal.

2:29

This past year has just opened

2:31

me up to feel grateful for

2:33

the small things in

2:35

a way that has me feeling

2:38

really good inside at

2:40

a lot of the times. One

2:43

of the ways that I nursed and nourished myself

2:46

back to self I just wanted to share in case you're

2:48

in the hard throes of it right now, was

2:51

really taking a big step back

2:53

from my to do list healing

2:56

in all the ways that felt really right,

2:59

whether that was just growing up to yoga

3:01

or spending more time with my friends,

3:04

not actually not time, spending more energy

3:06

with my friends, spending more energy

3:08

doing all of the things. Not the time

3:11

because we could give time easily,

3:13

but to give our energy and present

3:16

to people and things in a world

3:18

that is always trying to steal our

3:20

presence is very, very a

3:23

different thing. And my female

3:25

friendships in particular have been huge

3:28

for me. And it's not just the serious

3:30

conversations that we've had, it's the joy

3:33

that comes from being around them, whether

3:35

it's a playful dance party or

3:37

sending each other memes. There's just something

3:40

about female friendships that have been

3:42

incredibly healing for me. So

3:45

for this episode coming up, this is

3:47

nothing like I've ever done before. From

3:50

the way that our microphones

3:52

are hitting and the way

3:55

the conversation flows so organically

3:57

and undescripted, it fully

4:00

will provide you with a

4:02

greater sense of who I am. So for this

4:05

episode, I brought on my two best friends,

4:07

Jerry and Lulu. Jerry is my best friend since

4:09

we were thirteen years old, and

4:12

my brother married her sister. So

4:15

my brother Greg married her sister Lauren.

4:17

They have two kids, Hunter and Ryan. Jerry

4:20

and I are aunts to the same kid, so

4:22

my best friend became my family. And

4:24

then Jerry met Lulu. They got married,

4:26

and Lulu is brilliant and

4:28

her brain works in such a different way. And

4:31

I gained another sister, another best

4:33

friend. Who are the two people that always

4:35

help me see myself so much

4:37

more clearly because they ask

4:40

such good questions, They're so deeply present

4:42

when I'm with them, and I inspire

4:45

to live like them in so many

4:47

ways. I'm honestly so excited for you

4:49

to meet them because they're hilarious and

4:52

beautiful on the inside and out. And

4:54

our conversation starts with Lulu, who's

4:56

lactating, never been pregnant before. But

4:59

it's just a very funny, light

5:02

episode that I had a lot of fun

5:05

recording, and I think that you'll also enjoy

5:07

listening too. So for this episode, you don't

5:09

need like a pen and paper to take notes, but

5:11

maybe go for a walk and enjoy

5:13

a light episode that will

5:16

make you probably want to pick up

5:18

the phone and call your best friend and have

5:20

a conversation with them too. Best

5:22

friends, female friendships are the best, and I'm

5:25

so excited to share

5:27

this other part of me that you've probably

5:29

never seen before. I know a lot

5:31

of you do want more of me, and

5:34

I hope you get a glimpse into that by

5:36

adding this dimension into this mix. I

5:38

will definitely miss

5:41

being on the mic over the summer, but I'm also

5:43

really looking forward to the spaciousness

5:46

that I need to be present, get clear,

5:48

resettle back into my body after

5:50

this year, and really see what

5:53

comes from giving myself the

5:55

space to just

5:58

be in my favorite season of

6:00

the whole year. Thank you so much for

6:02

being here. I am so grateful to do

6:05

this work. Okay, I hope

6:07

you all this episode.

6:08

Faye.

6:10

I thought I was like showing my vulnerability.

6:12

I was like, I'm lactating here, I'm here.

6:14

For the podcast.

6:15

You can we can keep this.

6:16

I'm here and I'm lactating.

6:18

It's worth sharing, huh

6:21

with excitement?

6:22

Lactating with excitement? No, that sounds so perverse.

6:25

It's worth sharing because somebody out there

6:27

might be alone in this.

6:28

Yeah, it might be something that your listener's really bond

6:31

with.

6:31

So Lulu has you've

6:34

never been pregnant.

6:34

I've never been pregnant. I am not pregnant.

6:37

I'm in a gay

6:39

relationship, and there's no chance

6:41

of being pregnant unless

6:45

somebody cheats on somebody, and

6:47

so and nevertheless,

6:49

I'm lactating. I'm lactating.

6:52

It started about three weeks ago, and

6:55

milk just started pouring forth. In the

6:57

beginning, I didn't understand why. I was like occasionally

6:59

like wet in the chest. And

7:01

then and then I looked down

7:03

and there were these white, milky

7:05

droplets coming from my nipples and I

7:07

couldn't believe it. And then I started

7:10

squirting.

7:11

Which was even more what does it mean?

7:13

Squirting?

7:13

Like it's in Like it's like a jet.

7:15

It's like.

7:18

So Jerry actually hasn't seen it because she keeps

7:20

on missing it. It's like lightning striking.

7:22

And I'm like, Jerry, you just missed it. You missed it again.

7:26

And so what we're trying to

7:28

do is not milk for two days

7:30

so that we can get a build up and

7:32

then we can.

7:33

Do a test.

7:34

So this is new information to me. I

7:37

actually just saw it. Some

7:39

wetness on your shirt? Is it both boobs?

7:42

Both?

7:43

It was only the left in the

7:45

beginning, and then the right joined it.

7:47

I'm not sure if it's biologically

7:49

worrisome or beautiful.

7:53

I don't know. I don't know. There's nothing

7:55

on the internet that makes it seem concerned.

7:58

That thanks

8:02

dropping. Stop fidgeting. Jerry is so nervous.

8:05

Okay, it's not even

8:07

you on the line, Jerry, just sit down.

8:09

You're not even the one LAC dating. We can't keep

8:11

Jerry at the

8:16

Do you want to introduce yourself.

8:20

Coming back?

8:21

I kept saying, this is reminding me of Jerry. At some

8:23

point it's about Mitzvah.

8:26

I think this happened. We had a shared about Mitzvah,

8:28

and I think you were really freaking out, and

8:30

it's just like very surprising because you're naturally

8:33

very chill.

8:34

But stage no.

8:36

Sorry, I saw you for Lisa's

8:38

wedding on the rehearsal dinner.

8:39

You fucking killed it. You were

8:41

so easy.

8:42

You were so natural, you was you took

8:45

You've got the whole room

8:47

like tip of your tongue, not what's

8:49

it called. You had the whole room at the

8:52

the

8:55

yeah

9:00

of your.

9:04

Oh you had them eating out of your hands.

9:06

Yeah, that's it.

9:07

Do you have them eating out of your hands? And

9:10

you just delivered

9:12

the best.

9:14

You guys just got

9:16

punked. I'm really you guys, got punked.

9:18

This is your pilot episode

9:20

of the podcast of Jerry and Lulu. M.

9:25

Well, it's not gonna

9:27

you got punked.

9:30

You've been canceled after the pilot.

9:34

I think I think I would. I don't

9:37

I think I would be canceled. I think

9:39

I would be scared to be canceled if I was

9:41

to have a podcast, Like I'm surprised that, like

9:45

anybody has the goal to

9:48

make make commitments, Like, how

9:50

do you deal with that?

9:51

Like, aren't you scared of being

9:53

canceled all the time?

9:55

I'm sure there is like a deep rooted fear

9:57

of being actually canceled, and like

10:00

the publicity that I've seen that comes

10:03

along with like being truly canceled. But then

10:05

I also, like, deep down sometimes want

10:07

to be canceled. Ooh no,

10:09

sorry, the surface levels I want to be canceled.

10:11

The deep down is like nobody wants to be canceled

10:13

because it's like a sense

10:15

of social not belonging

10:18

and rejection, and that would obviously

10:20

feel awful and come

10:23

with like really strange consequences

10:25

of not knowing like who still likes you, who doesn't

10:27

like you, who's talking about you, who's not.

10:29

So what's the desire to be canceled.

10:31

Then just like kind of like be

10:33

done with like being afraid

10:35

to fully speak certain opinions that I

10:37

have, and then like everybody who like

10:41

is on the cusp about me is just kind of gone.

10:43

You know, you would filter out your audience

10:46

and filter the people who are remaining of

10:48

the people who like you would want to have.

10:50

Do with, right, because then you're like free

10:53

to really say whatever you want if you got canceled on like

10:55

some major thing. Right, So like you just get rid

10:57

of everybody who didn't

11:00

who like can't stand for you being multi

11:02

dimensional? Yeah or dynamic? How'd

11:04

that conversation get there? Are you guys good

11:07

interviewers? No,

11:11

just just wrap up the lactating thing

11:13

real quick here, just to bring it back full circle.

11:16

This is a phenomenon to me. I

11:18

think that's so.

11:19

It is weird.

11:19

It is weird, And actually I can't tell my friend Lara

11:22

about it, So I hope she never listened to this podcast,

11:24

because when I told my friend Lara about my friend,

11:26

she was like, she was like gagging.

11:28

She was like it's disgusting. She was like, it's

11:30

actually revolting. Do you remember we were telling her

11:33

about it?

11:33

At dinner. She was like, please don't, I'm eating.

11:35

The worse is now you can't tell your friend that knows

11:37

that that person would have thought that it was gross.

11:40

Yeah, well this

11:42

is made for the US. This is

11:44

us only. Yeah.

11:46

Well, I mean I think it's kind of interesting

11:48

though when people, like most people when I was breastfeeding,

11:50

were like so into it. And then I have one

11:52

friend who was totally like, oh

11:55

my god, please stop talking about breastfeeding. And she

11:57

was a female too, and I

11:59

found it just like interesting, like

12:01

and I just like respect that, like that's like her

12:04

reaction to it.

12:05

The only I don't know that I remember about like breastfeeding

12:08

is or like what I think about breastfeeding

12:10

is I remember my mom when I was younger,

12:12

was reading a romance novel

12:15

and she burst out laughing and I was like,

12:17

what's funny, and she was just like, oh,

12:19

this man is trying to have sex with this woman

12:22

and she just squatted milk into his mouth and

12:24

I was so young and I was like what.

12:27

And that's like, see why this

12:29

is also fascinating is I never leaked when

12:31

I was breastfeeding. I have a friend who's leaking

12:33

all the time to brestighten it. Oh,

12:36

yes, I do not like

12:39

mine. But again, I just want to nail him

12:41

the point that you're not pregnant. I've never been pregnant. This is

12:43

just happening.

12:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know what's happening,

12:46

but it is happening.

12:47

But you said that there could be some real hormonal fluctuations

12:50

that could cause it's obviously if

12:52

you have medical concerns and are going through this, please

12:54

see your doctor.

12:58

Yeah.

12:58

Like, I wonder whether it has anything to do with feeling

13:01

broody and like wanting kids. But I don't think

13:03

the feeling of wanting kids is so

13:06

strong.

13:08

I mean, it did happen when you saw it solely my

13:10

daughter, So I think that's where it's notice.

13:12

Yeah, yeah, like tearing

13:14

up.

13:15

But oh,

13:21

to be a woman, the many confusing

13:24

ways it is to be a woman.

13:25

I thought it was interesting what you were saying about canceling.

13:27

Like one of the reasons why on the surface you would

13:30

like it is because then you would like filter out and you would

13:32

just be able to be like who you are

13:35

or like allow for like the multifacetness

13:38

of you to come through. Do

13:40

you feel like there are lots

13:43

of sides of you that you

13:46

feel like you have to edit out because it's like not part

13:48

of the brand.

13:49

H I wouldn't say that

13:51

I operate from a like a place of like

13:53

brand, and that is like

13:55

both great and not great at the

13:57

same time. It's great because

14:01

I don't burn

14:03

out, but it's not great because

14:05

I don't think that i've I have tapped

14:07

into like true potential

14:11

of building a business, like

14:13

I think when I change my Instagram from the well Necessities

14:15

to the to Lisa Haim, I thought that

14:17

that was like a really good thing,

14:19

and I still do think it was the right move and I would do

14:21

it again, but it actually

14:24

like it created a more me version

14:26

of me versus like a business that I have

14:29

that I put out that is this niche you know?

14:32

Hm. So I think that

14:35

I don't ask that question of like is

14:37

that on brand or is that not on brand? And maybe

14:39

I should Maybe then I would be like growing more,

14:41

have more followers or more this and more that. But I

14:44

just burn out really fast if it's not coming from

14:46

a place of like true authenticity.

14:49

And not to say that everybody who has a brand based off

14:51

of their person is like inauthentic, but

14:54

I think that it's like more challenging

14:56

to like always stay in that like narrow lane.

14:59

But at the same time, then it becomes more of like a job,

15:02

right, Like my job is to serve, and I

15:04

serve and I give you know, people

15:06

recipes, right, So they're always talking about recipes.

15:08

They're not going to talk about politics one day,

15:10

or their relationship or things like that. And

15:13

I think that can be really beautiful because

15:15

they really preserve like their

15:17

whole self for their like real life. Like my friend

15:19

Olivia came on my podcast and really

15:21

talked about like how she saves her like real

15:24

self. I don't remember if that was the words that she used

15:26

for her you know, real people.

15:28

And I think I don't know. Would you guys agree that,

15:30

like you get a different version of me than the internet?

15:33

Jerry looks like she's got something to say here.

15:35

I think there's consistency.

15:37

I'm not shocked.

15:39

I don't think that you're in conflict

15:41

with who you are online. There's

15:43

different intimacies, Like I do think that you have

15:45

a private life.

15:46

Right, yeah, or there's more.

15:48

We just have history that would be probably uninteresting

15:51

or too particular to share

15:53

with people, right, And that's what a lot

15:55

of our relationship is.

15:57

I think that I am in more. I'm in relationship

15:59

with people a lot more like we are in relationship

16:02

to each other. And like

16:04

on the Internet, I'm talking to a screen, which

16:06

obviously people are listening, but it's it's

16:09

very it feels very one way, even though it's

16:11

like not it's being received, but nobody's talking back

16:13

to me. So then like the reason that I like,

16:16

you know, like Lulu, you were supposed

16:18

to come on the retreat and like why

16:21

I went on my met treat with you guys is because

16:24

I think I'm able to like penetrate

16:26

different levels of self by way

16:28

of having conversations with people. So

16:31

I've always struggled with the unique dimensional

16:33

version of social media, how it's speaking

16:36

to your audience. Even if there's comment sections,

16:38

it's like not usually a conversation

16:40

in the real way that I agreed.

16:42

I don't mean, like when you post,

16:44

it doesn't resonate with me in the same way that having a conversation

16:46

with you does. Right, we could talk

16:49

forever and it would never feel long.

16:51

But like I can't read, it's not the format

16:53

that works for me. So when there's a

16:55

ton of text coordinated with a photo,

16:58

right, it will never land in the same way way,

17:00

And that's probably that would

17:02

probably be with a lot of people, right, Like if it

17:04

was a stranger, I would don't know that I'd be able to identify

17:06

with a stranger that I found online

17:09

through that format, but definitely not with

17:11

you.

17:12

Like have you ever actually identified

17:14

with like an Instagram personality

17:17

or celebrity or anything.

17:19

Yeah, if I had to think about random

17:22

people that I followed, but it would

17:24

it would probably be like

17:27

more spoken word or video content.

17:30

True, so that it Mind'm

17:32

just curious, Lou, are you thinking

17:34

of somebody for her?

17:36

Oh?

17:36

I think like you really like Young

17:38

Me for example?

17:40

Who's that?

17:41

Oh yeah, well that's through humor.

17:43

She's a comedian, right, yeah, she's a comedian and

17:46

she's amazing so sharp.

17:48

It's like, what's a joke that she tells?

17:50

It's not like not that I can't really reiterate, but she

17:52

does. She just souls amazing memes

17:54

and just has like a really good take on

17:57

a lot.

17:57

Of She's insightful.

17:59

How did Young Me do you find

18:01

out?

18:01

Like there's so many different personalities

18:05

online and you also like talk to so many

18:07

different people. Do you find it

18:09

hard to know how

18:11

to stay true to like what you want to talk about

18:14

and like stay true to you rather than being like,

18:16

what's what's the difference between like being open

18:18

minded and like hearing about loads of ideas

18:20

and like not being carried away and

18:23

like knowing, okay,

18:25

good you want to focus on.

18:27

I've never been influenced

18:30

by like what people are posting in

18:32

terms of like, oh, this is what people

18:34

are saying and it performs well, and then you should

18:37

talk about that because I can't like

18:39

write or think from that place. But

18:41

I have definitely been not inauthentic,

18:44

but like struggled with the format of Instagram

18:46

as it's changed, like everybody, When Reels

18:48

came out, I was so excited because I

18:50

actually do like video editing. I like making

18:53

videos. I think it's like more fun to deliver information

18:56

via videos. But then it was like, wait,

18:58

physical humor what you like

19:00

to move? Yeah? I like to move, like And

19:02

I was never good at taking pictures, so I always

19:05

like struggled with like posing and

19:07

or like taking pictures of my food. Everything always felt

19:09

so weird and interruptive to like

19:11

life, like let me everyone stop

19:13

eating so I could get this picture perfect thing that I'm gonna put

19:16

on my feet and then do the restaurant, you know. Is like

19:18

it was just interruptive or reels was exciting,

19:20

but then as reels continued and then TikTok

19:23

happened, it was like, no, you don't make reels

19:25

by just like creating a video and

19:27

speaking and talking about I don't

19:29

know, we'll talk about nutrition or learning to listen

19:31

to your body or yoga or anything. It's like it's

19:34

in the systematic format that retains

19:36

people's attention, whether it's like a dance to a

19:38

catchy song or a trend pointing to different

19:40

words on the screen. I don't if you remember when people

19:42

were doing like the point of a lot, you know, or

19:45

like certain songs, like it became

19:47

such a way to do reels that

19:50

I like lost inspiration. So it's

19:52

like I have all of these ideas in my head of topics

19:54

that I want to talk about, but figuring out how to

19:56

execute and like bundle

19:59

that into what Instagram

20:01

wants so that it gets to people has

20:04

been a roadblock for me. And

20:06

it's not to say when I do like try to do it that

20:08

way that things don't go well, but it

20:10

just feels like so much more of a task that

20:13

that feels inauthentic versus like when

20:16

Instagram started and I would just like have a thought

20:18

and I would just like pair it with a random photo, it

20:21

just like flowed through me, versus like, Okay, here's

20:23

my content idea. Now I have to like put this camera

20:25

here and feel me doing this and then do

20:27

a voiceover and then put text. I don't know, it

20:30

just became so cumbersome. Ye, the

20:32

mix of just I don't

20:34

know what used to feel very simple. I

20:37

still think video is great.

20:38

But what is a trend at the moment

20:40

that you're just like cannot.

20:49

What is a trend at the moment that you're just like.

20:52

Cannot, I honestly don't know. I

20:54

think I have like a new, accidental, great

20:56

new relationship to Instagram where

20:58

I'm truly viewing it as an app. Is

21:01

that how you guys use it? Like I'm going to open my phone

21:03

and open this app? Or is it like reflexive

21:05

for you as a user?

21:07

No?

21:07

For me, definitely, it's like it's like an app

21:09

that like I occasionally like visit, and

21:13

I think I have a pretty healthy relationship with it.

21:15

Well always I've never

21:17

been like that attached to it, to be honest, you're

21:19

off it for a while, yeah, Like then

21:21

I came off it for like six months, if

21:24

not a bit longer, which was nice

21:26

in the beginning, and then after a while I

21:28

just was like, oh, I'm actually missing out on

21:31

like a lot of news and just basic

21:33

keeping in touch with people, and so it's

21:35

not like an all or nothing relationship at

21:38

all.

21:38

I think we talked about this, but I had and I said

21:40

it on another podcast episode that you and I

21:42

had a conversation about you

21:44

going off of Instagram and you're like, hey, I think I want

21:47

to come back because like it's kind of like how far

21:49

can the pendulum swing go

21:51

kind of a thing. And I was like, wow,

21:53

you're so right, Like we can't pretend that it doesn't

21:56

exist, because it is a source

21:58

of news and like what's

22:00

going on around not that you can't get that somewhere

22:02

else. But I thought that was super

22:05

interesting.

22:06

Yeah, it's about funding the balance like

22:08

with it, definitely.

22:09

But that's really hard when it's designed to be addictive,

22:11

addictive, Like it's so addictive. Okay,

22:13

So going back to the question, I think

22:15

that I've gotten so good at like not

22:18

not treating it like I open my phone and then I'm on Instagram

22:21

and then I'm gonna watch stories. I still do get sucked

22:23

in occasionally, but I don't know. I'm

22:25

like literally not interested

22:27

in what other people are doing right now, and

22:30

not that I ever I'm like so interested, but I'm

22:33

able to catch myself a little more being like waste

22:36

of time. Want to be with my daughter, want to be with my husband,

22:38

or I'm with my husband and I want to actually

22:41

be with my husband because I'm next to him, but like

22:43

this is a block to intimacy,

22:46

like emotional intimacy, me being on my phone, him

22:48

being on his phone. So all

22:50

to say that I don't even know what the trends are right

22:53

now. I do love TikTok. I find

22:55

it so much more funny inspirational,

22:58

like I can like get ideas of things to

23:00

do. And I haven't been on TikTok at all

23:02

very much lately, so I don't even know what the trends

23:04

on there are. Do you guys know the trends?

23:07

I actually haven't been on them for ages.

23:09

I haven't been on TikTok for ages.

23:11

You know what TikTok oh at

23:14

all, But you have Instagram. I do would

23:16

have thought you would have made the switch to TikTok

23:18

and abandoned your wires worked.

23:21

To know something. Now you watch my you

23:23

know what I mean.

23:24

Remember you're like you got You're like,

23:27

oh, you get bed such funny stuff like me.

23:28

Yeah, if you show me something we're watching together and we're laughing

23:31

at something together, then that feels like the

23:33

right amount.

23:34

Yeah, but I don't need something else.

23:36

Yeah, we don't need another.

23:38

I thought I didn't need something else either, And then it was

23:40

just like, but.

23:41

It is different from Instagram, Like it is like

23:43

a welcome break and it feels like a joyful

23:46

place like versus Instagram, which is

23:48

like, I mean, everybody knows what

23:50

Instagram is, but TikTok feels

23:52

like just like a bit lighter

23:54

and more expansive.

23:56

Like you're not getting people that are like pumping

23:58

out content every day for the sake of like content,

24:01

Like you're getting comedians that like otherwise wouldn't

24:03

have had a platform, or singer songwriters

24:05

that like would have never gotten heard.

24:08

But but like, if you have good talent, you're

24:11

rising to the top much more fast than

24:14

you would have been. Like the industry otherwise

24:17

mm or if you've got if you're

24:19

just like really able to articulate

24:21

a concept, you know, it picks up speed fast.

24:24

Like who are you talking about earlier? I like the kids who did.

24:26

The song, Oh yeah, so the song that Evan loves

24:28

Take me to the River. I can

24:31

stay swim and I can swim

24:33

anyway. It's a great song. I don't know if that came

24:35

from TikTok or Instagram, to be honest, but the

24:37

song went viral from two teenage kids at Jesus

24:40

Camp and they were otherwise

24:42

like they have no interest in being famous. They still

24:44

don't want to be famous, but the song just

24:47

like blasted them to the top because the song is so good

24:49

and they just Jesus

24:51

gave them the lyrics and they give it back to the world and it's

24:53

so beautiful and they're so cute.

24:54

That would literally read my dream for that to happen to

24:56

me, for me to like.

24:58

Do nothing, no, to do

25:00

nothing, and.

25:02

To like

25:04

get recognized for like one of these

25:06

like little songs that I make.

25:08

She wrote the best song.

25:09

So here's a good opportunity. I do

25:11

you do write good song? Joy? What's your favorite song that was

25:13

you wrote a really good one yesterday. Can

25:16

you sing it?

25:16

It's pretty morbid?

25:17

No, no, no no, can you.

25:18

Go the less morbid one for just for

25:20

like just you know, introducing her people.

25:22

To Maybe there will be one that comes

25:24

to me.

25:25

But there was one that I really loved that

25:27

used to sing, Cale's give me wonder.

25:28

Bagels and bagels.

25:30

They're coming to my house, curry

25:33

puffs and curry puffs.

25:34

I'll put them in my mouth.

25:36

It is good. So it's a jingle.

25:38

You're a jingle writer.

25:40

That's a jingle.

25:41

But like there's dirty

25:43

tacos, dirty

25:45

tacos, come meat

25:48

shore, dirty tacos.

25:51

The Gods sauce, the god.

25:53

Beans, they got everything you need

25:55

to bring you to your knees.

25:57

It's dirty tacos.

25:59

You heard that one before.

26:00

It's business business,

26:03

it's business time.

26:05

It's busy. This is a show

26:07

to go time.

26:10

It's business as

26:12

usual.

26:14

It's business as

26:16

usual.

26:17

That came from that.

26:18

Came from the day that we did a two day taco

26:21

pop up and when when we were pushing

26:23

our cart home with our leftover bits and.

26:25

Pieces video foot this one

26:28

time which I was like, oh my god, what's that

26:30

My favorite song? And I was like, oh my god, the

26:33

song that I wrote about the Postman box

26:35

or something like that. She was like, no,

26:38

the Beyonce song.

26:41

I was like, oh my god, what of mine?

26:43

See if this was a video podcast, which you

26:45

guys didn't want video, but if we had video, we'd

26:47

be able to take that clip.

26:48

I'll share it with the people.

26:49

Okay, yeah, I think that would be a good maybe

26:52

promo for this episode.

26:53

It's very good.

26:54

It's business.

26:55

It's really as usual.

26:58

Meanwhile, two day business, so

27:02

for.

27:02

Lisa's thirty fifth birthday, will lease

27:04

two business.

27:11

I feel like what we would

27:13

like to do in this interview is ask

27:15

you some spicy questions.

27:17

Spicy spicy which

27:20

one you're thinking?

27:21

But then like, when I'm asking you spicy questions, I'm like,

27:23

which part of you do you feel

27:25

like you can't bring to the table

27:27

because of your brand? You're like, oh, I don't really see this brand.

27:30

I'm like, it's hard because you're like answering

27:32

in a very wise way.

27:35

So I'm gonna so just.

27:37

Swing it on the same page.

27:38

Yeah, okay, It's

27:40

funny.

27:41

A lot of the questions actually that we wanted

27:43

to ask you you alluded to

27:46

earlier in the day anyway, Like, Jerry,

27:48

why don't you why don't you go with this one?

27:50

I guess anytime I've looked

27:53

back at something that I thought

27:55

was meaningful in writing,

27:58

Yeah, like an old journal entry or something

28:00

like that, there's some element

28:02

that's like a bit embarrassed.

28:05

Cringe.

28:05

Yeah, that feels too extreme and kind of like

28:07

too on trend. But it's just like something more to the

28:10

core. Wh're like, like, I don't really

28:12

need to revisit that.

28:14

I know where this is going.

28:15

I don't think you do.

28:17

It's more like do

28:19

I feel that way you make a career or you just push

28:21

past that all the time.

28:22

But that's the thing. I never looked back. I don't want to look

28:24

back.

28:25

No, but that's good, right.

28:26

So here I am like I can hardly even take

28:29

one step forward because I'm too concerned.

28:32

I think calling it like insecurity would be oversimplifying

28:34

it. But it's like just too concerned

28:36

with how things will be.

28:38

Leaving an imprint. Yeah, No, I

28:40

think that's intentional. I think that could be beautifully

28:43

intentional. I think we have different parts of

28:45

the brain that are activated and like mine is really

28:47

good at like just but

28:50

what is that survival you guys are both

28:52

good at that.

28:53

Set it and forget it, just chucking on, Like

28:57

you don't mind having a conversation.

28:59

Listen, if I would, I like saw something that I wrote

29:01

and I was like, I would probably archive

29:03

the post and just like pretend it never happened.

29:05

Right, But I don't look back very often,

29:08

but it exists.

29:09

But there's something about just continuing

29:12

to put yourself out there. And that's for anyone. That is

29:15

a type of vulnerability. And maybe

29:17

it's like not that you have so much

29:19

so much exposure, not that everyone has so much exposure,

29:21

but like, even if it

29:24

was just for myself, even in this.

29:26

Part of my brain not firing, that should that

29:28

should be like, oh, future, look

29:30

back.

29:31

But that worked, But I think that stopped. That's what stops

29:33

a lot of people.

29:34

Right, but maybe in a good way.

29:36

No, because you're creating so much

29:38

stuff that's helpful and impactful for people

29:40

in a really good way. Yeah, And it's

29:42

not like you can't recover if you made a mistake. Yeah,

29:45

if you've said something embarrassing or regrettable.

29:47

Or whatever it is.

29:48

Right, So you want to.

29:50

Know, yeah, how do you how do

29:52

you tick?

29:52

Like, how do you kind of like I said in the beginning,

29:55

like it also feels like for me

29:57

to speak, write, share, it

29:59

has to come from this like energetic blaze.

30:02

And when you're like in that energetic blaze,

30:05

you're like not thinking necessarily

30:07

so clearly mm So like

30:09

even for this podcast episode, right, like

30:11

I was like, I slay it out my

30:13

thirty fifth birthday. I want to end the season, and

30:15

I don't know, maybe thirty five lessons, but like I don't

30:18

have the thirty five lessons, Like I'm sitting

30:20

down. It's like not coming out of me. But

30:23

like if I was like trying to fall asleep one night and then it was like boom

30:25

boom boom, my brain was like thinking of all these things.

30:28

Then it's like, yes, I want to lead with this. It's like coming from

30:31

an awake place versus a

30:33

cognitive place.

30:35

Yeahah, it sounds like you're it's like

30:37

lacking of self awareness in a good way,

30:39

as in you're just really present. Yeah, you're just

30:41

really present. You're just thinking what you're thinking. You're not thinking

30:44

about like how you're going to be perceived or

30:46

like the way in which you're coming across.

30:48

You're just inflow,

30:50

inflow, right, But over the years,

30:53

I've lost that flow because of

30:55

many reasons. I think industry changes,

30:57

life changes. I used to just be

31:00

twenty middle like twenty five,

31:02

twenty six when I started. I'm thirty five now just

31:04

naturally by maturation,

31:07

mature. What's the word here, that's sure, naturation.

31:10

Maturation sounds like such a mature

31:12

word itself.

31:13

When you turn thirty five, you could use it.

31:15

Yeah, a couple more years,

31:17

Yeah.

31:17

Yeah, you've got Oh yeah, I was thinking

31:19

you're turning thirty five this year, You're not even

31:22

I think by way of maturation and like life

31:24

changes, like I've taken on a partner who

31:27

like has a career, I take I have a daughter

31:29

who what's a whole other conversation about,

31:32

like social media and her and exploring

31:34

what feels right for her and

31:37

probably changing a lot of things in the

31:39

next few years too. So I

31:41

think that I've I've lost that flow for some time.

31:44

I'm really in it right now, which is interesting,

31:47

But then I'm also going to go I think, take a social

31:49

media break in July or

31:51

August or maybe both. I don't know exactly yet.

31:53

So it's funny to like be in this flow or I actually

31:55

am in that like boom boom boom groove and

31:58

then be quiet during that time.

31:59

But social, I mean there's only one outlet, right you still

32:01

like you have a newsletter you.

32:04

I want to take a break from everything for like a

32:06

month or two, just this beginning

32:08

of this year or the whole year. Really this

32:10

last six months have just been super

32:13

confusing, dizzying, traumatic,

32:16

all the emotions, adrenaline that I

32:18

feel like I just haven't fully like dropped

32:21

into self and like before I take

32:23

my next step, and I want to

32:25

just like make space.

32:27

And obviously it's very privileged to be able

32:30

to.

32:30

It's really interesting because one of the questions that we

32:33

wanted to ask you was like, how

32:35

does it feel having grown

32:38

up or done your adult thing? As

32:41

if somebody's basically reading your diary, Like

32:43

how does that affect you?

32:45

I don't think about the words so much as

32:48

I do have like regrets of just

32:50

like moments that

32:52

I wish I was like more deeply present, but

32:54

I was like recording for something, you

32:56

know, we're taking pictures, and it

32:59

just felt like that made sense for a lot of years

33:01

to like do both like oh, Evan

33:03

and I are going to Miami, and I you

33:06

know, everybody would love to see like what we're eating,

33:08

right, so everyonere eating, but

33:11

then there's like a moment of that that's like lost.

33:13

I mean, Jerry and I went we went to high school together,

33:15

and I remember our English teacher, Edward

33:18

Belliwiot or teacher. We were in the special

33:20

program. It was when like social

33:22

sharing was just starting to come out. What did we have

33:24

those Like we had like these pages where

33:26

every weekend we would upload photos.

33:28

Just between in just the class. No,

33:31

I remember that it.

33:32

Was like a social It was before social media.

33:35

It wasn't like shut orfly, but it was like it

33:37

was like a feed. And at the end

33:39

of like every Sunday we'd upload our pictures from like

33:41

our new digital cameras and

33:43

then like you'd see like who was

33:45

at the party and who was there.

33:47

Sure, it sounds vaguely familiar, but right.

33:49

I remember it was called but I remember him

33:51

being like, but are you actually present?

33:53

You're taking the picture? And I'm like, yes,

33:56

you're actively. He's like, but how can you be

33:58

because then you're taking the picture to be perceived

34:00

in the picture like you're having fun. And

34:03

I was like, I don't get it.

34:04

Who was the first to present, real existential

34:08

dread.

34:08

And dread and yeah, and now I get

34:10

it. I'm like, if the phone is there, it's a

34:13

third party for its party, six party

34:15

whatever. That changes, yes,

34:17

all right, even this podcast right now, there's

34:20

a microphone in her hand. This conversation,

34:22

as natural as it is, is

34:24

different if the microphone isn't.

34:25

Here, definitely, Like,

34:35

how do you feel like it has affected

34:37

your personal relationships? Like obviously having

34:39

a podcast and like having your

34:41

social media presence, you've come into

34:43

contact with so many interesting new people

34:45

and like broadened the groups of people

34:48

that you're talking to, But in terms of your own personal

34:50

relationships, like, how do you feel like it's impacted

34:53

them?

34:53

I feel like, at least in my mind, there's this

34:56

really thick line between

34:58

like personal team

35:00

mey ish like even though it's me, and

35:03

then like the me that is me and

35:05

all of my friends who are my real friends, Like most

35:08

of them don't listen to my podcast, most of them don't look at

35:10

my social media, and if they do, they see

35:12

occasional posts like it's not how we keep

35:15

in touch. It's gotten

35:17

blurry with some friends that like I'm

35:20

not going to say, like take it at face value but like

35:22

see something that I post and then respond to that

35:24

post or something, rather

35:27

than.

35:27

Like find out what's really happening.

35:29

Find out what's really happening. I mean that kind of

35:31

sounds like I'm like lying about something, which I'm not.

35:34

But it's just like there are certain people that have like kind

35:36

of gotten confused a little

35:38

bit, but those aren't like my real people.

35:40

I don't know if that answers the question.

35:41

You've kind of always been at risk for that since

35:44

before all this.

35:45

What do you mean?

35:46

Remember we used to say, no joke

35:48

the joke was, and you were in on it, what the

35:50

joke was. Yeah, we would forget

35:52

how great you were until we got with you.

35:54

Yeah, but no, I don't mean that. I know that's

35:56

the thing about me. Everybody forgets.

35:58

Just to expand on that.

36:00

Our sibling friend group, we

36:02

would joke that once we were

36:04

with you in person again, I would be like, oh, yeah, Lisa

36:06

is the best. But as soon as we would have any distance, it

36:08

would just for some reason, you

36:10

were just prone to being diluted to some

36:13

shallow, I know, assumptions.

36:15

But now I don't feel that.

36:16

No, it's not exactly, no, it

36:19

is it is a funny attachment that I think

36:21

we all remember, you identify you were the one that

36:23

figured that out.

36:24

You were, don't you guys remember?

36:25

But I also feel it. I feel it when people perceive

36:28

me as like just being right

36:31

you said in the beating, not multi dimensional. At the time, we

36:33

would just chalk it up to like, oh, Lisa like shoes, like whatever.

36:35

You came up with that, and it was just like, oh yeah,

36:37

that was kind of on the nose, you're right, yeah.

36:40

And then when they're with me, they're like, oh yeah, you've got You've

36:42

got the layers beneath, and they're kind of shocked,

36:44

and it's weirds. I'm not like super pretty, you

36:46

know, somebody's like super pretty forget Oh yeah,

36:49

not like so pretty.

36:50

You're accessible,

36:53

approachable, you

36:56

know, yeah, sometimes attractive to some people

36:58

not to others.

36:58

It's not like, you know, no, that's so. I don't

37:00

know why I got that vibe, why I give

37:02

that vibe, or if I still does

37:05

it still hold true or do we talk about But I think

37:07

maybe.

37:07

That's just like what happens

37:10

to anybody who's like in the public

37:12

eye.

37:13

It was before that she

37:15

was doomed. It was us or

37:18

maybe I'm saying, maybe that's something.

37:20

Hate that sounds like he's gonna hate it. Sounds

37:22

like jealousy.

37:23

Jealous of me.

37:24

Yeah, jealous.

37:26

My brother's jealous. Everybody's

37:29

jealous. Jealous.

37:32

Speaking which unpopular

37:34

opinions? Should we

37:36

do one.

37:37

For the day, I'm gonna keep on light. But yeah,

37:40

has your just because it's super.

37:42

Has your audience been introduced? I mean, not

37:44

that it's a new idea an unpopular opinion, but

37:46

just what you You kind of played

37:48

this game with us where it was just like here's a safe

37:50

space, now, like offer up

37:52

an unpopular opinion, got it, and let's just leave

37:54

it on the floor and see if we could all accept

37:57

it.

37:57

Accept it?

37:58

Okay, fine, you go first.

38:01

Lulu had one, Well mine, I

38:03

said mine the other day and I didn't realize it

38:05

was a popular opinion. I just

38:07

said, I wish that I spent more time

38:09

on my phone. Like I just when I'm

38:11

with Jerry, she's just like on

38:13

her phone and she's just like doing

38:15

shit and like staying connected and is

38:18

like talking to people having full blown conversations

38:20

while I'm there, and like I'm just like I

38:22

really respect that she's just like on her

38:24

phone. And I'm just there

38:26

like blah blah blah blah, like

38:29

or like you know whatever, I'm just like looking

38:32

at you. And then you're just like on your phone, and I'm

38:34

just like, what am I not on my phone?

38:37

Just like I really wish

38:39

that I was spending more

38:42

serious time connected to

38:44

all the different apps on my phone?

38:46

Do you mean like connected to different people.

38:48

In your life? That's what

38:50

I'm saying.

38:50

I couldn't even understand it was And double

38:52

you're just insulting me because it's an

38:54

unpopular opinion and you're you're ascribing

38:57

it to me like I just sound

38:59

like the.

38:59

World and you're like not even on

39:01

your phone a lot, I don't write.

39:03

You're like, like, why

39:05

are you being so defensive?

39:06

That's admirable. I was like, there's nothing.

39:10

I think you meant something else, No,

39:12

I don't, really.

39:14

I really mean like it could

39:16

be a variety of different things, like yes,

39:18

maybe it's messaging my friends, but it's also like

39:20

being on Instagram, being on TikTok, or

39:23

reading the news or like news apps or something

39:25

like that, like just the

39:27

whole gamut, like

39:30

gamot, is.

39:33

That what you guys say?

39:34

It?

39:35

The whole gamut? Gamut.

39:41

So I

39:46

just think it seems

39:48

like an adult

39:50

way to live your life. I feel like I'm

39:52

not adulting.

39:54

That's so I can't

39:56

accept it.

39:57

By not being on my phone as little as

39:59

I am.

39:59

Like the the fact that I have messages

40:02

that are on read for five

40:05

hours, I think for most people

40:07

is like an unacceptable standard

40:10

of communication. And I think

40:12

that they're right. But for

40:14

me, I'm just like I could leave my phone at home. Yeah,

40:16

and I just like, whoop, So you don't care where

40:18

it is.

40:19

I think that that's yeah, I love it.

40:21

I guess that that's a goal, but like it's nonsense.

40:24

Guys, I'm telling you from the other side. You don't want

40:26

to be here.

40:27

What's happening to you over there? It's

40:29

just you're more present.

40:32

People will need to hear it from you. Hear from you. Yeah,

40:35

we get to Jerry if we need.

40:36

No, I think. But that's the thing.

40:37

I think that the people that the

40:40

news that really needs to get to me and

40:42

the people that I really need to speak to, I

40:45

often miss opportunities,

40:47

Like our world is faster paced and it would be

40:49

really nice to go like, oh, I really want to slow

40:51

down. But when you slow down you take

40:53

yourself away from it. You just have to

40:55

accept the reality that the world is

40:57

fast and that people are getting instant

40:59

respond and the news.

41:01

Is changing over a dime. And

41:03

I don't but it is.

41:05

I'm telling you, when you're not

41:07

in the cycle, it

41:09

feels irresponsible.

41:11

All right, Someone go surface and the non surface

41:14

surfaces. We just went to this gelatteria,

41:16

no plateria. What do they call it? Yeah,

41:20

what's it called. It's like a popsicle place, but it's like a

41:22

name for it, clo popsic

41:27

paleta bar that's what they call it. Whatever,

41:30

and their new flavor. It was

41:32

like, wow, new flavor. No. I was so offended

41:35

by their new flavor of the ice creab cup goat

41:38

cheese cheese

41:43

olive popsicle.

41:46

Oh yeah, awful.

41:48

Oh made me sick. Okay, anyway, that's my surface

41:51

on surface is I am perpetuating

41:53

this? So I am part of quote unquote

41:55

problem. But like true

41:57

wellness is like hypocritical

42:01

to technology. Obviously it's not black

42:03

and white, but I find it

42:05

hard to believe that we can truly like be well

42:07

and like be on our phones

42:09

going back to yours. As much as we are reliant

42:12

on Instagram for all

42:14

of our health information or wellness information,

42:16

and going even further, like health tech I

42:18

think is like the biggest like ruse,

42:21

like wearable technology to find out about

42:23

your sleep and you're trying and how many steps

42:25

you took and all that stuff. It's like it's

42:29

so opposite, like wellness to

42:31

me should be stripped down. It should be simple, it

42:33

should be connected to self. And

42:36

I know that these industries are booming industries,

42:38

and I do again just like not fully

42:40

black and white, like there's value in information,

42:44

but there's like this huge crux of like how

42:46

well are we if we're always on our

42:48

phones? Very well

42:50

in my right, right right

42:53

right, right, right right, but like I

42:55

think we also don't know the true health effects

42:58

of staring at a screen from like the

43:01

curves of our spine changing to our eyesight

43:04

from an led background,

43:06

you know, back to us to holding the phone

43:08

in our hand with like decrepit thumbs,

43:11

to EMF and bluetooth

43:13

and all of that, to things I probably can't

43:15

even you know, put into

43:17

words. So it's like here I am, let

43:19

me teach you about health and wellness, but also listen

43:21

to my podcast, stay on my page, do this

43:24

that did it? Like for me, like that feels participatory

43:27

at this time. But there's

43:29

like an unpopular opinion

43:31

within me of like this can't be it.

43:34

Yeah, So like, first

43:36

of all, do I choose wellness and health for myself

43:38

and go off of the grid, right, or

43:42

I don't know how that land for you?

43:44

Yeah? Good?

43:45

I mean I feel my healthiest and most well like

43:48

detached from all of it when I keep my cel phone at home,

43:50

you know, and obviously, like you said, there's a

43:53

level of responsibility to it. Especially

43:55

I think that word is good because since having solely

43:58

I've been on my phone more than ever

44:00

multiple reasons. Some were some

44:02

because if the phone makes you feel

44:05

like you're being responsible, Oh, let me google this

44:07

rash that she has let me just but like that could be more harmful,

44:09

and then other reasons of just like if

44:12

I leave the house right, I want to know whoever's taking

44:14

care of hercul get in touch with me. So I

44:17

think that these smartphones are not smart at all.

44:20

Oh that that that brings me to mind. Maybe

44:22

this isn't an unpopular opinion. But the

44:24

other day I said to you, I think

44:27

maybe it's it's good to present

44:29

things as truths even

44:31

when you haven't fact checked them.

44:34

Why because I think we're too dependent

44:36

on Google and like,

44:39

and like, you know, a generation ago,

44:41

people were just saying things with the confidence

44:43

that they had from whatever experience they had or whoever

44:46

told them, the trust that they had and whatever was

44:48

passed down to them, and they believed it

44:50

and like probably believed it through some sort

44:52

of experience and that

44:55

was enough, right, And sure,

44:58

like there's maybe potential for some thing's

45:00

being damaging or some sort of like knock on effect

45:03

that isn't positive, But for the most part, that's

45:06

a I think that's a pretty positive thing. It's

45:08

just like take it for what it is, incorporate

45:11

something that you've learned into your own life, and then you can tell someone

45:13

that without saying I haven't looked this up

45:16

or I'm not sure if it's true, but I think

45:18

that you.

45:18

Know, the research have to say on that, like

45:21

as if it's not harmful, right,

45:23

and like, people are gonna believe that this helps

45:25

with that it gives them something

45:28

to do and put their energy forth.

45:30

And you disagreed, Yeah, I really

45:32

disagree.

45:32

I think the world needs

45:35

to be more accepting of complexity

45:38

and put that vague, like and

45:41

how vague things can be.

45:43

But I don't think the phone or internet

45:45

provides you with more vagueness. It says

45:47

like right and wrong.

45:48

No, But I think what it does is you

45:51

acknowledge that people

45:53

don't always have the right answers. And

45:55

it's like, if you go on Google, Google's

45:58

not going to give you one answer.

45:59

It's also going to give you three different answers.

46:00

But most people aren't going to get to the third answer they look

46:02

for the first.

46:03

Well, it's Google's truth anyway, but it's still like, it

46:05

still feels like it's more weighted in, like fact

46:07

truth then you just sang it from your

46:10

on.

46:10

Yeah. I don't know.

46:12

I just don't think there's anything wrong with people

46:16

being a little bit more humble

46:18

about their abilities to like be truth

46:21

sayers.

46:21

I think that that's gotten us into like a lot

46:23

of trouble in the past.

46:26

I guess it depends on what the type of information is too.

46:28

Yeah. Yeah, I was telling you how to wash dishes.

46:30

Better based on how your

46:32

ancestors taught you to wash dishes. Yes, yes, and

46:35

Google had a different way.

46:36

I didn't ask Google because I didn't need to know. I'm

46:38

not sure if you need to have hot water. But I'm

46:40

pretty sure based on my whole life's

46:42

experience.

46:43

You wash that cold A cold rint it was cold.

46:45

Was happening, and I just was like, hot, it'll.

46:48

Be better, yeah, but will it? You're right,

46:50

will it?

46:51

But like I know enough because I've

46:53

done it enough to know that, like right,

46:56

I don't need Google.

46:57

I know, but I just don't think it's like a crying shame

47:00

that you would like. But I'm not sure about.

47:02

That because I felt like I had to double back by the

47:04

way before I go just telling you this thing

47:06

that you need the heat to cut the

47:08

grease. I'm

47:12

not one hundred that's not that's not science.

47:14

But I just needed to know that.

47:16

And then I was like, why did I feel like I have to tell

47:18

you that that's not sign.

47:20

The intricacies of relationships?

47:22

And then I wanted to and then I sat down and then I thought,

47:25

that's it's an interesting thought now that I thought

47:27

that I had to tell you know, Like, then I worked about backwards

47:29

and I went back to up to and I was just like, I've

47:31

been thinking about whether or not this is something

47:34

that you need to do. And then I presented this whole opinion

47:37

about yeah, and then there was like, no, you're

47:39

wrong.

47:39

We should find out if that's true or not.

47:41

I've seen her get like this with you though too.

47:44

You guys are like too smart for each other's good.

47:47

Just like, all

47:51

right, should we wrap up this episode?

47:52

I don't feel like we got to the real Yeah, we

47:54

didn't really get to.

47:56

One last one. We got to the crux. We

47:58

had fun. All I want to do is out

48:00

with my best friends and have fun and give the internet a taste

48:02

of how wonderful you both are.

48:03

I'm looking okay, get punked.

48:05

This is your part.

48:06

Okay, Now we always as

48:08

I don't think we have, but it's anyway.

48:11

Wait, you can say we

48:13

were trying the commune.

48:15

Oham, So we've talked

48:17

about like the idea of like commune living.

48:20

The mom Mune.

48:21

You guys are moms yet, but yeah, we could

48:24

help. Yes, you don't have to be.

48:29

Like that's the thing about the mom Mune. You don't have to be

48:31

a mom.

48:32

Yes, to be part of it, I do

48:34

think you should be largely female. Oh

48:37

interesting, Well, like what men would I need?

48:40

Go on with the question.

48:41

Yeah, well, anyway, you've chosen a.

48:43

Man, right, to be in my

48:45

village.

48:45

Well, we're not sure. That's this is the this

48:48

is the question. So we love Evan.

48:50

So you you have chosen like

48:53

a pretty traditional nuclear family

48:55

set up, and we're just we were.

48:56

We were basic nuclear equals basic.

48:59

Yeah, already for boring suburbs.

49:01

I get it reduced to the lowest common

49:04

Yeah. So if the commune was a real option,

49:06

do you think you're ready or would you take

49:08

it?

49:08

Okay?

49:09

So the commune being we all live together.

49:10

Yea, and it's like we have

49:14

like equal responsibility for the

49:16

different children. So like Rye Hunters, they

49:18

all come under.

49:19

So we all share, we share a family jo. The

49:22

three of us are aunts to the same hunter Ryan.

49:24

Yeah.

49:25

So whatever, where at state are

49:27

we going to live in?

49:28

Not?

49:30

Okay? So is the question what I leave Evan behind?

49:34

Because we actually called it a commune, you wanted

49:36

to call it a mom mune and said, I think

49:38

we.

49:38

Need right right right right. I think

49:40

we do need Evan. He brings valuable

49:43

skills.

49:44

So the question skills

49:46

if you had the.

49:47

Starting fires no, so if you had the option, so

49:49

you know, you guys are like thinking about getting a new place

49:52

and instead of you guys getting in a new place.

49:54

It's like, actually, we're all going to buy a new place

49:56

together, so it's going to be ten of us

49:58

were.

49:58

Living in an apartment and actually be like, your

50:01

dad's going to come.

50:01

To dad, My

50:05

dad gotta come, my

50:08

mom coming to this is this is

50:11

a traumatic place for me.

50:12

I don't want to be here. No, no, no.

50:13

We can pick and choose.

50:14

Yeah, you can pick and choose.

50:15

But the idea that it's like a commune setting,

50:18

would you genuinely.

50:21

Make the case to Evan and be like, maybe

50:23

we should uproo our.

50:24

Lives genuinely, yes,

50:28

I believe that that would be the best

50:30

thing for all of us. I

50:32

think we would not have cell phones. We

50:34

would just be so like sustainable

50:37

within ourselves.

50:38

Or also hunters and gatherers.

50:40

Were sustainable in the sense that

50:42

like.

50:43

We have but we're

50:45

living like in the world as we know.

50:47

It a

50:50

lot less. We would be talking to each

50:52

other. Mostly, I think that it restores

50:54

many of the things that people

50:57

have in the blue zones, which is where people live the most,

50:59

which is lots of socialness.

51:02

I forget the other thing zones. The blue zones

51:04

are the areas in the world that we've studied where

51:06

people live the longest, like long. Yeah,

51:09

so the things that they do is like what

51:11

types of food that they eat. But the huge thing

51:14

that stands out is that they spend

51:16

a lot of time socializing and

51:18

how like healthy that is. And I think I

51:20

would.

51:21

Love I would love to live in a commune.

51:23

I think the way we're living is just is

51:25

just so bad for mental health and we don't even

51:27

realize it.

51:28

And also like I think when you live in a nuclear

51:31

family, you're also like really people

51:33

are really busy keeping up pretenses

51:36

and like keeping up like an image

51:38

of like what things are supposed to be. And I think

51:40

that like if you were living in a more

51:43

open community style setting,

51:45

I think you would have a lot

51:47

more space for like real vulnerability.

51:50

And real honesty.

51:51

Like even with being able

51:53

to talk a little bit more about mental health, like

51:56

in the recent years, it's still

51:58

presented.

51:59

To you through social media through like.

52:01

A lens of a filter, Whereas

52:03

like I think if you had community living like more

52:06

people would really experience what

52:08

it is. And I

52:10

don't know, I just think it would be really

52:12

healthy. So the

52:15

final question is something

52:17

that is going to start with the statement first, so we know that

52:20

boundaries are really important to you, and you've talked about

52:22

the importance of boundaries before. So

52:24

what communication do you owe to people

52:27

when you put up boundaries towards

52:29

them?

52:30

Like? Do people?

52:32

So yeah, do people deserve to

52:34

be told? Like not all,

52:37

I'm putting up a boundary, So you think, so

52:39

it's okay to kind of just go cold turkey

52:41

on someone.

52:42

I think that you always have to make like a boundary

52:45

is meant to protect you. It's less

52:47

about like the other person in many of

52:49

those circumstances. So it's literally like what do you

52:51

have the bandwidth for? If you don't have the

52:53

bandwidth to explain

52:55

your boundary to somebody else,

52:58

like for whatever reason, whether it's feared, hired,

53:00

exhaustion, whatever reason, then

53:03

you have to just create that boundary

53:05

without explanation. And many most

53:07

of the people that I have like created real boundaries

53:10

with over time, have like circled

53:12

back and understood that it was a boundary without explaining,

53:14

and the relationship has been better for it.

53:17

But in that murky

53:19

period, it's not always like that,

53:21

and you kind of have to sit with that. But I don't

53:23

know, I don't feel I said before, I've been

53:25

a little psychopathic, But no, I think I'm more like just

53:27

focused on such self preservation. When a boundary

53:29

is laid that you just have to

53:32

like trust that it's for the better

53:34

of the relationship and it does

53:36

create a new path, but it's like a

53:39

new pathway for the relationship too to

53:41

exist, and then it helps the other person like do that

53:43

for themselves or life.

53:45

But there are a lot of people in your life that, yeah,

53:47

speak the same language, not

53:50

just followers, but like people in your peer group and

53:52

work and whatever in whatever element of work.

53:54

But not everyone has that same

53:57

emotional intelligence or is in the

53:59

pursuit of doing personal work or would

54:01

would have the awareness to see

54:04

a boundary, identify it, respect

54:06

it, and then be able to like grow through

54:08

it.

54:09

Also maybe they won't be able to verbalize

54:11

it or put into words, but like the eventual

54:13

eventual eventual has almost

54:16

always been net positive for somebody that I've retained

54:18

a relationship mmm with. Again,

54:20

they might not be like, wow, thank you for putting down

54:22

that boundary with me. Now I understand how to

54:24

better communicate with you and other people in my life.

54:26

Like maybe not not so literal, Yeah, it's not

54:28

so literal, but I don't know.

54:30

I think similar to like posting, right,

54:33

It's like I'm not like looking all around me. It's

54:35

just like if a boundary needs to be put in place,

54:37

it's because something in

54:39

me is being chipped away, and it's for like

54:42

restoration.

54:43

M hm.

54:44

So I no, I don't think that in all

54:46

cases you have to explain it, and

54:49

certainly that word is never well

54:51

received, like this is a boundary that I'm lying,

54:53

mmmm, right, Like people get

54:55

their back up against that and

54:57

trying to delicately put it in

55:00

another way. If you have to already

55:02

lay the boundary, it's just like not

55:04

always available. It's true emotionally

55:07

to put it in a sentence

55:10

that would be soft enough that they're not defensive, Like that's so

55:12

much emotional work just thinking about it right now, and I'm not

55:14

even in it's not and I'm

55:17

just thinking like hypothetically, right, I

55:19

don't know. Maybe that's that's how I do it,

55:21

but that's not saying that's the right way to do it.

55:23

No, it makes sense.

55:25

I think that that like that probably

55:27

comes from being able to like

55:29

your answer comes from the ability to know

55:31

like what it is to responsibly set a boundary,

55:34

like so many people can't do it because

55:36

they're like worried about what other people are thinking

55:39

or thinking about the repercussions.

55:41

But I guess, and it's not to.

55:43

Say that I'm so great at it. And other times either,

55:45

like especially with family right where most people

55:47

need boundaries like I do have the

55:49

same soft spots and re enter

55:52

cycles all the time.

55:54

So I just don't want to come off as like I'm an

55:56

amazing boundary. Put her down her and

55:58

you should follow my steps. Just answering that question.

56:02

Okay, should we wrap up this episode?

56:03

Guys?

56:04

Yeah, well I see a commune

56:07

in our future twenty twenty

56:09

five.

56:09

That was the most interesting thing that we leaned

56:11

out of this interview is that it's a yes, but it's

56:13

a year ago.

56:15

That you guys are New Yorkers.

56:17

We are.

56:17

We're gonna have to figure.

56:18

Out that we're not right

56:20

now.

56:22

Thank you for sitting down talk to me. I love you, guys,

56:24

Love you.