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0:57

An unhappy Sunday copy Sunday Run Welcome

0:59

to the The. Apps. Of essential

1:01

pit stop in your week. The deer the queue and

1:03

they. Say to them

1:05

to match up this isn't too much

1:07

and dig for Sunday morning Know steam

1:10

straight into the first question. Well I

1:12

mean it. It is. Is the the

1:14

biggie? Is it owning subject? Louis should

1:17

care. Starmer. Be. Worried about

1:19

Owen Jones resigning from the Labour Party

1:21

and the formation of We Deserve Better

1:23

Thank you Zaidi in Manchester. Three need

1:25

to explain your own. Jones's people. I

1:27

think we should own Jones is a

1:29

columnist and activist activists. Going to say

1:31

that because it winds him up. If

1:33

you if you don't call them a

1:36

journalist yes the and just call him

1:38

an activist, he goes nuts on to

1:40

Yes, The and a You Tube. And

1:43

imagineer. They

1:45

said the Disney World who who by

1:47

the way is some his his his

1:50

nickname in nam at the Guardian is

1:52

Skrela in honor of the in honor

1:54

of the propagandist pig an animal available

1:56

for know Yeah so I bought a

1:58

bit is a fun. fact. However,

2:01

more seriously, he has and you

2:03

know seriously for the Labour Party

2:06

and perhaps the nation, he has

2:08

resigned from the Labour

2:10

Party after 24 years. Wow.

2:12

And you know it's a

2:15

more and he's

2:17

written about this in The Guardian last

2:19

week and it's more in sorrow than

2:21

in anger and you know but Starmra's

2:23

just pushed him over the edge. So

2:25

he's now congregating with this new group

2:28

called you know in

2:30

a slightly introspective fashion we

2:32

deserve better. Yeah. Should Starmra

2:34

be worried? No, I

2:36

should think Starmra is absolutely thrilled because I

2:39

mean it

2:41

always, I mean historically it has always

2:43

helped Labour

2:46

leaders on the verge of an election

2:48

if left-wing columnists, activists,

2:51

groups declare themselves implacably

2:53

upset and go off and do something else. So

2:55

I think there will have been you

2:57

know I don't think it'll be a huge event

2:59

in Starmra. I thought it was quite commendable really

3:02

because he's done what he was telling

3:04

people like me to do for so long which

3:06

is under Corbynism if you don't like it just

3:08

fuck off. Yeah. And he doesn't like Starmraism so

3:10

he's fucked off. Yes, I mean I

3:13

think he might not, it might

3:15

not lead to the sort of national

3:17

uprising that he's hoping

3:19

for and it's true as well

3:21

that you

3:24

know he wrote, I own Jones' very

3:26

interesting history because he wrote an amazingly

3:29

good book called Chavs, I think his

3:31

first book which I thought was a seriously

3:34

good book about class and how it had

3:36

not gone away and I thought this is

3:38

gonna be very interesting but he has become

3:40

you know his social media figure he's got

3:43

1.1 million followers on X and

3:45

I think he's kind of become one of those figures

3:48

for whom you know that and

3:50

there are figures like them on the Labour left and

3:52

indeed on the Tory right as well who just

3:55

won't take yes for an answer right

3:57

they really won't so you

3:59

know the fact is that Starma may

4:01

not be his ideal politician and

4:03

it's certainly true that and

4:05

the left will never let Starma forget this that Starma

4:08

has sort of moved away from the pledges

4:10

he made during the leadership contest and so

4:12

on but my

4:14

god you know if you're a Labour voter mmm

4:16

you know the what do you want

4:18

more Sunak or Keir Starma I

4:21

don't know I mean he really I've read that

4:23

I read the PC wrote yeah he does raise

4:25

some interesting questions about Starma which you know deserve

4:27

to be asked I mean

4:30

as ever with with with Owen

4:32

it's it's it seems

4:34

like it's all about Owen to me you know there's

4:36

a sort of streak of narcissism a

4:39

while a mile wide running through him

4:41

however I have to say the guy

4:44

is clearly very passionate about a number of issues

4:47

and beats them to death and and and

4:49

is strident and you

4:52

know as much as I have

4:54

a bit of a short time for him

4:56

as a personality I think I can't complain

4:58

about him you know shouting loudly about the

5:00

things he has a look I mean he's

5:03

a free agent he can do what he wants yeah I

5:06

mean all I would say is that historically

5:08

leaving the main

5:10

parties has really worked out well yeah

5:12

I mean I can bet we deserve

5:14

that the last time you'll ever hear

5:16

the phrase we deserve better on this

5:18

podcast is today yeah just now I

5:21

mean how how many people

5:24

remember Change UK? Do you remember when

5:26

yeah you know chukra Munna and a

5:28

bunch of other MPs decided they were going to

5:30

rebuild the the center of God yeah what happened

5:32

to chukra Munna? Well he's gone off and into

5:35

PR and was he? Yes he has. He was

5:37

going to be the he

5:40

was going to be the future of

5:42

the Labour Party. It was a shame

5:44

but you know that that was what

5:47

killed off his career because you know there was

5:49

no way back and you know the

5:52

gang of four you know who did make some

5:54

impact you know the SDP David

5:56

Owen Shelley Williams Roy Jenkins

5:58

Bill Rogers You know, they

6:01

made an impact and they made it harder

6:03

for Labour to win elections, but that's about

6:06

it. The SDP is a weird party now.

6:08

Oh, now it's very strange. It's got some

6:10

very weird people in it. It does. I

6:12

mean, weird ideas. It's rather

6:14

like an American-style weirdo party, you know,

6:16

with weird, strange, combination of libertarian and

6:19

super-state. I think Rod Liddell's a big

6:21

SDP. I think Rod is in the

6:23

leading class, which I would not have

6:25

expected. There you go. Well,

6:28

anyway, you know, Godspeed,

6:30

Owen. Thanks, Zadie from Manchester.

6:33

Next question, please. So,

6:35

given the futility of the Lords

6:37

voting against the futile Rwanda bill,

6:39

isn't it fair to say the

6:42

entire upper chamber is a bit

6:44

futile? Very good, Sheila. Sheila

6:47

from Westland, thank you. Three

6:49

mentions of futile, though. Yeah, I think

6:51

I'm getting the feeling that futility is

6:53

part of the concept behind this. The

6:55

question is, is there any point to

6:57

the upper chamber? There is, but

7:01

it's not clear what it is anymore, I think,

7:03

because it's such an unreformed

7:06

body. It's half-reformed.

7:09

And, you know,

7:11

the truth is this, I mean, this is, I don't want to

7:13

get too much into the weeds in this, but this goes back

7:15

to the 1911 Parliament

7:17

Act, which is worth mentioning,

7:19

because it was designed to

7:21

give the common supremacy over

7:23

the Lords. And

7:26

to stop the Lords from blocking

7:28

things. And in various ways, that

7:30

has remained the case. So,

7:32

we don't actually, in this country, have what

7:35

constitutional experts insist on calling

7:38

a bicameral system, which just

7:40

means two chambers. I

7:42

mean, it isn't like the Senate and Congress in

7:44

the States, because in the end, the

7:48

Lords can kind of delay

7:50

and amend things and push

7:52

things back, which is what they've done

7:54

with Rishisinac's Safety of Rwanda

7:56

bill, which now won't come back to the

7:59

Commons until April. the 15th but it's

8:01

very rare that the Lord's succeeds

8:04

in genuinely killing off something.

8:06

But do you think that's a good

8:08

thing that they can't genuinely kill off

8:10

things? Here's the problem is, so it's

8:12

an advisory annex is really what it is and

8:15

there's a lot of expertise in it but the

8:17

membership is all over the place so all

8:20

the attempts to reform it have been really

8:22

focused upon the membership which you know first

8:24

of all there was getting rid of their

8:26

editaries and then there was a should they

8:28

be the rest be appointed or elected and

8:31

Cameron tried to do this in the

8:34

coalition in 2012 and the interesting thing that

8:36

happened was MPs

8:38

Tory MPs 91 of them rebelled

8:40

because they did not want a

8:42

second chamber with real power. Yeah

8:45

right. So the question here

8:47

is and and I don't have a sort of

8:49

I'm agnostic on it but it is a very

8:51

big decision if it ever comes onto the radar

8:53

of I don't think I wouldn't expect to come

8:55

onto the radar of a Labour

8:58

government very soon because so many people

9:00

have had their fingers burnt by it

9:02

but is do you want a second

9:04

chamber that can actually you know really

9:06

I mean it's fully elected and can

9:08

actually stop or

9:11

already initiate and ensure that bills

9:15

get passed. Yeah. And at

9:17

the moment there's no evidence that people do

9:19

and indeed you know

9:22

the Senate filibuster you

9:24

know the way that the session is so

9:26

often using the states to stop things happening

9:29

would suggest that what would happen if

9:31

we had a Senate in this country is is we

9:34

preen ourselves on our greater democracy

9:36

for a bit and then we'd end up

9:38

with more legislative gridlock. Yeah. So I'm not

9:41

I'm not really sold clearly what we've got

9:43

now is indefensible. Is there an argument why

9:45

do we have a second chamber at all?

9:47

Well the argument is that it's good to

9:50

have it is good to

9:52

have a revising like a sanity check a

9:54

sanity check you know couldn't you build that

9:56

process into like for

9:58

instance giving the opposition more

10:00

say in legislation. Richard Crossman

10:02

used to argue very strongly

10:07

if we're going to get rid of the pass the

10:09

laws let's just have one chamber. The

10:14

argument for it is that most

10:17

MPs don't last that

10:20

long. There are experts

10:22

from other fields who have

10:25

things to offer. There's

10:27

a strong, I mean I think if it was

10:29

elected it would have a strong sort of regional

10:32

flavour and probably a electoral

10:34

system that was more

10:37

PR-ish than first-past-the-post. It,

10:42

you know, actually I mean recently the

10:44

Lord's has become a bit of a joke for

10:47

all sorts of reasons, you know, not least that

10:49

it's become just a patronage mechanism. But

10:52

it has had historically a civilizing

10:56

effect upon democracy

10:58

I think in this country and you know I'd

11:00

be nervous about getting rid of it because you

11:03

know if you do have a government with a

11:07

170 majority, you know

11:09

you are... It's good to have the potential for the

11:11

central... It's at least a sense, you know, I mean

11:13

there's a check and balance but the point that

11:16

Sheila raises is it's a good one which

11:18

is in the end the Commons does prevail.

11:20

I mean all that will happen in this

11:22

case and

11:24

you know God love them for doing it is

11:26

that they've kicked Rwanda

11:29

a bit further down the track.

11:31

Yeah, which actually might be quite

11:33

effective really. Well it's politically... And

11:35

it never happening. It's politically

11:37

very effective because it what it does is

11:40

it it means that I mean

11:42

Sunak really wants, he

11:44

really wants flights to leave. He's dreaming about it

11:46

more than Suela Brahma and that. And even more

11:48

than Suela Brahma and that's how bad it is.

11:52

And there's something intrinsically

11:54

brilliant about the

11:56

House of Lords just saying not yet

11:58

mate, you know. No, no, not

12:00

in that colour, can't do that, no, no, no,

12:03

no, no, come back. Tell you what, come back

12:05

next week, I can do you a thought, you

12:07

know, you're reliant on Robin, is that? You can

12:09

just imagine how he must have been seizing, so

12:11

for reasons that are not particularly,

12:14

you know, on report, I find it

12:16

very, very pleasing. So maybe it's less

12:18

futile than Sheila and I kind of

12:20

imagine. Wouldn't it be great if... I

12:23

mean, what you really want is someone to kill it

12:25

off, and that's not going to happen, but wouldn't it

12:27

be great if it proved the laws

12:29

just kept going, and

12:32

somehow managed to stop the thing from happening

12:35

in time, just because they ran it out of time.

12:38

They ran it out of time, that would be

12:40

glorious. And bills do run out of time. Yes,

12:42

indeed they do. All right, well thank you Sheila

12:44

for that question. Next question please. I

12:46

often hear conservatives making a big deal

12:48

about Labour and their union paymasters. Why

12:51

don't Labour lean into this attack? Why not

12:53

say yes, we are influenced by the union

12:55

that represents your child's teacher, the nurse looking

12:57

after your mum, your neighbour, the

12:59

train driver. And if Labour is influenced by

13:01

the unions who fund them, then the conservatives

13:03

must be influenced by their donors. Why don't

13:05

Labour ask the voters which party do they

13:07

think has the public's best interest at heart?

13:09

From Roy Pierce. Thanks Roy. I thought this

13:11

was a brilliant question and a brilliant point

13:13

well made. And I don't know why they

13:15

don't lean into it more. They're

13:18

obviously a bit embarrassed of the unions, the

13:22

union money in putting that front and centre, because

13:24

it gives the feel of the

13:27

workers party and all of this business, which obviously has

13:29

got negative connotations with a

13:32

whole swathe of the electorate.

13:34

But the point, the juxtaposition

13:36

that Roy has made

13:38

there between if you're getting 15

13:40

million quid off a guy who's

13:43

just made 400 million from NHS

13:45

contracts, or you're funded by 100,000

13:47

union members who

13:49

work in a factory

13:51

somewhere, that's definitely better. Well again, it

13:54

comes back to something we discussed on

13:56

Friday's podcast, which was, you know, the

14:00

risks of always thinking that we're living in 1979. Now,

14:03

in 1979, people were very, very angry

14:06

about the unions and they felt they were

14:09

over mighty and keeping the

14:11

government was gridlocked and things weren't working.

14:13

But I don't think people think that

14:16

at all. And one of the reasons

14:18

I think that is that in

14:20

the wave of strikes, train strikes,

14:22

the doctor strikes, all that

14:25

we've just been through, it

14:27

was really noticeable in the polls that

14:30

the public blamed the government,

14:32

not the union. There was

14:34

very little old school anti-union

14:36

barons. I

14:39

think enough time has passed now.

14:41

And I think people see unions

14:43

rightly as very

14:45

important bodies that people need more than

14:48

ever now because

14:50

employment is so insecure. Maybe

14:52

it's the word itself, union. Maybe it is. It

14:55

carries such baggage. I

14:57

mean, like you, I really like this

15:00

question because I think that at

15:02

the election, you

15:04

can just hear Jacob Rees-Mold talking about

15:06

beer and sandwiches in number 10. And

15:09

I think Kia Stann would say, yeah, we

15:11

are gonna have beer and sandwiches because we

15:14

want to live

15:16

in a society where working people are

15:19

well represented, get a good deal, a

15:21

fair shake, and that's something

15:23

to apologize for. And we'd rather

15:25

be funded by them than a

15:29

racist. Well, I mean, one thing that I

15:31

think we can all agree on, you, me

15:33

and Roy, I imagine, given the nature of

15:35

the question is, this

15:37

idea that you can benefit to the

15:39

tune of hundreds of millions and then

15:41

pay back a proportion of that to

15:44

the people who gave you the contracts

15:46

is utterly obscene. It's just

15:48

wrong. And I think,

15:50

Starma should say that out front and

15:53

legislate against it, I think. Yeah,

15:55

I mean, look, Beer and

15:57

sandwiches are better than helicopters and-

16:00

Back Yeah, that's right, right and Starmer say some

16:02

some other A good he did. I mean that

16:04

I'm he's done something more often than he said

16:06

helicopters as much. Yeah, I mean I saw. I

16:08

think I think. This

16:10

idea that unions or something for labour

16:12

to be frightened dogs are not to

16:14

be search. I don't think Starmer has

16:16

been. Like. That I mean

16:18

Blair didn't like the Indians A and and. Floated

16:21

the idea of famously in, in, in,

16:23

in the nineties of crossings, a link

16:26

entirely. And then it didn't happen. And

16:29

I think that's right. to the mean, I think

16:31

the Labour party came from the unions and should

16:33

stay in a part of it and other unions

16:35

are going to be more important actually. Yeah in

16:37

the coming to his and before so by summer

16:39

your question Thankyou Roy. Since

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18:47

question, please. From

18:50

Steph on Spotify. What do you think

18:52

the chances are of a Johnson comeback

18:54

given the continued beleaguement of Sunak? I

18:57

know a good number of people who would welcome him

18:59

back. Brackets, sadly. Sadly,

19:03

he's very plangent, isn't it? What do

19:05

you think? Well, not this side of the election, I

19:07

think. But he's

19:10

only 59, which makes him, what, 32

19:12

years younger than Biden. So I

19:15

think it's a bit early to rule

19:17

him out on grounds of age. And

19:20

the other thing is that he's made it clear

19:22

all along that he would

19:24

like to come back. And

19:26

he's shown in the last 30 years this

19:29

extraordinary power of resilience and

19:33

an ability to sort of get over

19:35

disasters. I have to say the disaster.

19:37

Some people may call that sociopathic. Yeah,

19:39

no, no, I mean, this is not

19:41

by, in any sense, an enforcement tool,

19:43

God no. And one

19:46

thing that I do think was too

19:48

quickly forgotten was that only

19:51

a matter of weeks after he'd left number

19:53

10 in October 22nd, two after trust fell

19:55

out over. very

20:00

brief premiership. He

20:02

came perilously close to

20:05

becoming Prime Minister again because he

20:08

did have the MPs

20:11

to get into the final

20:13

round. That's right. And he would

20:15

have beaten any other contestants because

20:18

the members still loved it. And was it him that

20:20

pulled the plug? I think

20:22

there are lots of things

20:24

in his life. One thing

20:26

is he loves his collection

20:28

of old English banknotes. He earned

20:30

6 million quid in the first few months.

20:33

It was extraordinary. And

20:35

without becoming too pro-rud, he does have quite a

20:38

lot of dependents, doesn't he? A

20:40

few houses. A few houses and a number of children.

20:42

His financial problems were a real factor in the dysfunctions

20:51

of his premiership.

20:54

One must never forget, he was absent

20:56

without leave for a week of the crucial

20:59

period of the first weeks of the pandemic

21:01

because he was off trying to write a

21:03

biography about Shakespeare. I mean, this is insanity.

21:05

So I think there will be part of

21:07

him that thinks, do I really want to

21:09

leave behind this sort of open cheque book?

21:13

But I mean, the honest

21:15

answer is that if the Tories

21:17

lose big, there will

21:19

be a contingent within the Tory

21:22

party and the Tory press that

21:24

will say, you know, disaster, red

21:27

alert, call for Boris. So I'd be

21:29

surprised if in some shape or form

21:31

we don't see, I'm not saying he's

21:33

going to be leader again. I'm certainly

21:35

not saying he's going to be prime

21:37

minister. Okay. I hope that's not what that

21:39

is. But you think he might get actively involved in the Tory? I

21:41

think he's just he can't he can't

21:43

help himself. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that

21:45

and I think that defeat will be always

21:48

shattering for a party after a long period

21:51

of in office. And I think that the

21:53

you know, he's the secret sauce argument will

21:55

become More powerful than it is

21:57

this side of an election. I Mean, I Hope

21:59

it's. Doesn't have a not and not

22:02

because I despise him which I do

22:04

or have very negative feelings about the

22:06

Tory policy which I do by hope

22:08

it doesn't happen because it's so regress.

22:10

If you know this country needs new

22:12

faces, a new voices you know new

22:14

optimism and it's.would just putting him back

22:16

center stage anywhere with just so all

22:18

the old arguments back ten years again

22:20

a note: be so vindictive, regressive with

22:22

all. just be talking about or is

22:24

Bloody Johnson again when we should be

22:27

talking about the future? Yes, are not

22:29

coming out here. Say. Would be good for

22:31

labor but I'm not sure it would know until they

22:33

were in the sense that I think that it would.

22:35

You're right that it would. It would make politics boris

22:37

centric be too easy for labour because you just have

22:39

to check list of things to the i liked him

22:42

off about Benefit also. Unite the

22:44

media would talk about him. Yes,

22:46

Totally when it should be talked about. The

22:48

new Govea of so all right thank you

22:51

stuff and but away faster faster question on

22:53

spotify which if you listening or spotify it's

22:55

very easy to do. You can just tap

22:57

tap on aber top in your your question

22:59

or any see buck. Next question is from

23:01

Tim Allen and Petersfield. How much of today's

23:03

ills of the Uk can be laid at

23:06

the doors of the adored the levels of

23:08

inequality and successive governments. a lack of a

23:10

planet would cement block think it's absolutely fundamental

23:12

and a thing in a to go back

23:14

to how we were talking on. Fridays

23:17

podcast about Rachel Raises Speech In

23:19

A one of the key aspects

23:22

of the speech was the geographical

23:24

inequality gap or you know, across

23:26

the board. But what was really

23:28

striking was the inequality and productivity.

23:31

The I hadn't realized. She.

23:33

Said Ice, so I assume it's true.

23:35

She said, outside of London, every major

23:38

city in the Uk, the productivity in

23:40

those cities is less than the national

23:42

average. So you've got a Malays in

23:45

a lot of the city's You know,

23:47

in terms of the economy productivity workforce

23:49

in the North of England, the Republic,

23:52

it's of renaissance. You know if you

23:54

go to Liverpool and Manchester that it's

23:56

Aca. Speak of those spices up in

23:58

there. And. times to know they

24:01

feel like they're on the up except within

24:03

those environments you've got real

24:06

pockets of poverty that people wouldn't believe unless you

24:08

saw it with your own eyes you know they

24:10

wouldn't believe some of the poverty

24:12

you can see in cities like Liverpool and

24:14

Manchester still to this day and everything

24:18

is so London centric, politics,

24:21

economy, culture, everything

24:23

that I think the concerted

24:26

efforts to make great metropolitan

24:29

conurbations in anywhere

24:32

north of Watford is is

24:34

is absence you know the HS2 the failure of

24:37

HS2 I think people can talk

24:39

all they like about getting from Liverpool to Hull

24:42

but and I'm sure there'll

24:44

be people listening where who think that

24:46

that's a great train line to invest

24:48

in but the answer to improving the

24:50

north of England's fortunes is to be

24:52

able to get there from from London

24:54

quickly yeah you know and any half

24:56

an hour you can chip off that

24:58

is gold dust an investment

25:00

in you know but the button the BBC

25:02

moved to Salford you know and

25:04

that became media city that was a great initiative

25:06

I think yeah really uprooted a lot

25:08

of people and it changed how

25:11

the BBC thought about itself and and that

25:13

trickles down a lot where you hear now

25:16

the today program make a big concerted effort

25:18

to be having presenters in different cities around

25:20

the UK and I think that's really good

25:23

the fact that that happens now and is

25:25

noticeable when you think about it is

25:27

just weird you know we live in a nation

25:29

where the great geographically

25:32

the bulk of it is pretty much

25:34

ignored by all the people yes decisions

25:36

there's planet London and then there's the

25:38

rest the rest and I think that's

25:40

absolutely right and I think also and

25:43

it sort of slightly helps back to what we were

25:45

saying about unions early is that there was

25:47

a kind of there's been a kind of reluctance

25:49

for a long time to talk about equality because

25:51

it was it it

25:54

had the the whiff of the 1970s and corporatism and

26:00

the old post-war consensus and

26:02

all that. And centre-left politicians

26:04

have been nervous about talking about equality.

26:07

But I think, again, different times

26:09

require different priorities. And

26:12

we have talked on the board quite

26:14

a lot about some of the truly

26:16

horrific statistics about food

26:19

insecurity, about people having to do

26:21

three, four jobs, and

26:23

yet still needing universal credit to

26:26

make ends meet. When

26:28

you reach that level of inequality

26:32

within communities as well as between them, you

26:35

are really testing the social

26:37

fabric. And A,

26:39

it's just morally wrong. B,

26:42

it's precisely the kind of terrain

26:44

where, as we saw with Brexit,

26:47

populists thrive. So on

26:51

every level, it's really important this. And I

26:53

think centre-ground

26:55

progressive politicians should not feel

26:57

worried about talking about inequality

26:59

quite the opposite. Yeah, I

27:02

agree completely. And my

27:04

wife and I were talking about this the other day.

27:06

And I said to her, because we were talking about,

27:08

we've got three kids, we live in the middle of

27:10

London. The idea that those kids are going to be

27:12

able to afford starter flats

27:14

in the neighbourhoods they grew up

27:16

in, it's just fanciful. So

27:20

that dynamic has changed completely. But I

27:22

said to her, well, imagine if there

27:24

was literally no difference apart from

27:26

the bloody weather, whether you lived in

27:28

London or you lived in a Liverpool

27:31

Manchester conurbation or an Edinburgh

27:33

Glasgow conurbation or in Birmingham. Imagine

27:36

if there was no real fundamental difference

27:38

to your lifestyle, to the culture on

27:40

your doorstep. Your prospects. Your prospects and

27:43

the way that the decision makers thought

27:45

about you. You'd move there in

27:47

a heartbeat. Of course. And

27:49

any kind of, that

27:51

wouldn't hurt London. I get the feeling,

27:53

my belief is London's big enough and ugly

27:55

enough to look after itself in this big world. It's not

27:58

a zero-sum game, are there? Exactly. And

28:00

other countries, you think about Germany,

28:02

it's not like the entire German

28:05

universe revolves around Berlin. No, absolutely

28:07

far from it. Frankfurt,

28:09

Bonn, all of these great places. So

28:12

anyway, great question, Tim Allen. In

28:14

Petersfield, with Petersfield could be another

28:16

great sense of British

28:18

growth. Yeah, thank you. Right. Worried

28:21

Ken from Exeter. Oh my God, Ken,

28:24

don't be a worrier. Don't worry. Right.

28:27

Ken says, be happy. In the weekend, Trump

28:29

warned of a bloodbath if he's not elected.

28:32

Does this mean that if he loses again, there's

28:34

a risk of all out civil war in the

28:36

US? Poor Worried Ken. Well,

28:39

there's lots to worry about, but maybe

28:41

not specifically about this use of bloodbath.

28:43

The good news, and you

28:47

know there's a butt coming. The good news is,

28:50

what he actually said Trump was,

28:52

I'm not going to do the impression

28:55

because it's serious. We're going to put a

28:57

100% tariff on every single

28:59

car that comes across the line that he's talking

29:01

about China. And you're

29:03

not going to be able to sell those cars if I

29:05

get elected. Now, if I don't get elected, it's going to

29:07

be a bloodbath for the whole pause.

29:10

That's going to be the least of it. It's

29:12

going to be a bloodbath for the country. That'll

29:15

be the least of it. But they're not going

29:17

to sell those cars. So people went berserk about

29:19

this because Trump, using the word bloodbath, makes people

29:21

go berserk, interestingly. Team

29:25

Trump came back and said, don't be so

29:27

ridiculous. He was just talking about the auto

29:29

industry and tariffs. It was a metaphor. And

29:33

it's true. You know, people use metaphors

29:35

like bloodbath a lot, you know, bloodbath in

29:37

the city, bloodbath you know. The

29:40

trouble is that when

29:42

you're Trump, you force

29:44

people to take everything you say literally

29:47

because you've got a bit of bloodbath

29:49

form. You've got bloodbath form. I mean,

29:51

this is the guy who

29:53

it's now gone down to 88, but he's been

29:55

facing 88 felony charges. You know,

29:57

he stood up an insurrection on. in

30:00

which people died and people were calling for

30:02

Mike Pence to be hanged. Mike

30:04

Pence has just said he went endorsed Trump, which should

30:07

really come as no surprise but appears to be news.

30:10

He asked his defense secretary, Mark Esper,

30:12

in 2020 when there was

30:15

a protest and disorder going on if

30:17

it was possible for National

30:19

Guard and troops just to shoot American

30:22

citizens in the leg. He asked him

30:24

that. We've discussed before he's

30:26

proposed shooting shoplifters on site.

30:29

He praised the Charlottesville neo-Nazis

30:33

as very fine people. At

30:37

that same rally,

30:39

which I think was in Ohio, he

30:42

began with the January the 6th

30:45

prison choir singing the national anthem

30:47

and Trump saluted them while

30:49

they were playing. Obviously they weren't there because

30:51

they're all in prison, as the name suggests.

30:54

It's not a disacover name. He called them

30:57

hostages. We're

31:01

entitled to not think he's talking metaphorically. And

31:03

of course, he did use the phrase, that's

31:05

the least of it twice. So that was

31:08

what was weird to me, I

31:11

read about the backlash to the

31:13

reports about the bloodbath comments first.

31:15

And the backlash was, and

31:17

it was from a load of quite progressive

31:20

sensible types saying, this is what's wrong with

31:22

the media in the States now is that

31:24

they take everything he says and make him

31:26

like the devil. And

31:28

so I thought, okay, and I must read the

31:30

full context of what he's actually

31:32

said. And then when I read what he'd actually

31:34

said, it seemed clear to me

31:36

that there was at least a case for

31:39

saying, no, he means more than the car

31:41

industry. When he says that's the least of

31:43

it, that's the least of it. He's talking

31:45

about the car industry is the least of

31:47

it. And there's more around it where there'll

31:49

be a metaphorical bloodbath, if you

31:51

like, or perhaps a literal one.

31:53

So yeah, I wasn't I

31:55

thought the reporting of it was justified.

31:58

And I thought the The. The.

32:00

Source of liberal backlash against the

32:03

reporting of it saying that if

32:05

you if you stigmatized everything he

32:07

says irrationally then you're gonna cause

32:09

problems. Further done a lot more

32:11

thought that was a rational Sticking

32:13

them that isn't It is a

32:15

very rational thing and one aston

32:17

remember that he is a showman

32:19

and uses steaks as a form

32:21

of pillow plausible deniability so he

32:23

and his surrogates out come on,

32:25

you know he doesn't mean it's

32:27

wealth when on twenty sixteen now

32:29

year. In. A week for we've seen

32:32

him. Being very little

32:34

about these things and. You

32:36

know to to the point where. Who

32:40

some we've talked about before and will

32:42

cost them more. Millie who is m

32:45

Had of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

32:47

in a had to take all sorts

32:49

of actions during the him during the

32:51

period between the new omit Transfrontier election

32:53

and and the inauguration of Joe Biden

32:55

to. In. A make sure everyone understood

32:57

the military was not gonna get involved in this

32:59

is not going to be a to yeah. This.

33:03

Is really serious stuff? Yeah yeah and so

33:05

it may be funny to him but it

33:07

isn't Honey for the first for the rest

33:10

with okay have not so I for one

33:12

more question. Am.

33:16

Doing so. do we wanna do the Israel

33:18

one to another way to do it? another

33:20

way to a positive. Last.

33:23

Question from Barbara Nelson Who do the

33:25

to mats want to be the next?

33:27

Bond you to first full of the

33:29

same customer off your of course Sean

33:31

Connery. pressure showed way Irish the best

33:33

chef way of. The

33:36

So I saw Rod. what's the last

33:38

one? No time to die Yaya Where

33:40

he dies, He dies or means boiler

33:43

unequivocally saw his sister. misleading title they

33:45

all post is a Health and yeah,

33:47

still dressed is so normal Us So

33:50

how come there is a new James

33:52

Bond? Said what

33:54

you're saying lane lot on what you're

33:56

saying Mr. Blair felt like us or

33:58

you're saying is that. He

34:01

can't come back. Well, has he ever

34:03

come back before? Has he ever died

34:05

before? This is

34:08

really spoddish, okay? But he dies in,

34:10

or he appears to

34:12

die in On Her Majesty's Secret

34:14

Service, the book. Oh, okay. And

34:16

that speech at the end of... No

34:20

time to die. Where he dies. It's lifted

34:22

from that. Oh, right, okay. And, or

34:25

kind of. But I

34:28

think that there's this thing called Billions of Dollars,

34:30

which is going to stand in the way of

34:32

your faultless logic. And

34:34

I think that even if he has died

34:37

in the Daniel Craig-a-verse, that someone is going

34:39

to come in. And the reason this is

34:41

topical, so thank you, Barbara, is that there

34:44

was a flurry of speculation that Aaron Taylor

34:46

Johnson... That's right, yeah. He went straight to

34:48

the bookies' favourite, didn't he? Yes, he did.

34:51

Was going to be the successor to

34:53

Daniel Craig. And he kind of denied it and said, no,

34:55

no, no, I don't want to get involved in anything like

34:57

a franchise. And I thought, hmm, so you haven't

34:59

been offered it, is that true? Oh,

35:02

I see. Well, I mean, you know, come on. Yeah. So who

35:04

would you like to see? I was

35:07

a very big fan of Idris Elba getting

35:09

it. I think he's great.

35:11

I think he would be stunning, Bond. But

35:13

he's 51. And

35:17

Daniel Craig, I looked it up, he was only 38 when

35:19

he started. Okay. And they took

35:21

a minute to make these films, don't they?

35:24

Yeah. So if

35:26

not Idris, I mean, someone who's been mentioned.

35:30

Can I ask the elephant in the room question? Is

35:32

that because you think it's time for a bit of

35:34

racial diversity in the Bond genre? Well,

35:36

I mean, I think- I mean, he's a great actor.

35:38

I certainly don't think it would be a bad thing.

35:40

Yeah. But it's not just that. I

35:42

mean, I think Idris Elba is one of the most

35:45

charismatic British actors of the last 50 years. I

35:47

think he's incredible. And, you

35:50

know, from the wire onwards, really.

35:52

And he's one handsome man. He's

35:54

got charisma. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And

35:57

what's weird is that they- worth

36:00

thinking about him. There's no question that Barbara

36:02

Broccoli who sort of runs the firm was

36:06

thinking about him and now is kind

36:08

of the moment has passed. The worrying

36:10

thing is that since then MGM has

36:12

been bought by Step Forward

36:14

Amazon. Oh my god. And you just

36:16

know that Jeff Bezos is promised to

36:18

be completely hands-off. Yeah, cool. It will

36:20

not be hands-off. It will be a

36:22

bald middle-aged white guy. With

36:25

like a wonky smile. It could be Matt Lucas.

36:27

Right. Well I was going

36:29

to say Michael, I'd love, Michael McIntyre

36:31

would be my new James

36:34

Bond pick. I think it would

36:36

have a huge death spot. It's sock

36:38

draw. Just also skipping around. Oh,

36:40

skipping around. Money penny. Skipping around making

36:42

sort of lame gags. I mean

36:45

I've got a chance. I'm terribly, I think

36:47

you know with Bezos being the sort of

36:49

final voice it could go horribly wrong. Oh

36:51

my god. I mean is there anyone you'd

36:53

like to see? So seriously who would I

36:55

think would be good? Have

37:01

they got to be English? Have they

37:03

always been English? Oh sorry excuse me British

37:05

I should say. No. I

37:07

don't think so. I mean people quite

37:09

seriously you know have mentioned... Is Henry

37:13

Cavill British? I don't know. I've no idea. But I mean you

37:15

know the answer is no. I mean you can't be who you

37:17

want. Well

37:20

an American James Bond like

37:22

Ryan Reynolds or someone like that. I think they've got to

37:24

have an air of menace about this. But

37:30

it's the end of the career as well as the other

37:32

thing isn't it? Did they ever do anything decent after it? Connery

37:34

did didn't he? Yes he did

37:36

and but I mean that's

37:38

the problem is that they take three or four

37:40

years to make. Roger Moore went on too. So

37:42

when my wife and I went to China in

37:44

the year 1999 I think or 2000. We

37:49

went to visit the Forbidden City in Beijing

37:53

and the tour guide gives

37:55

you the audio thing you

37:57

know. That was the earphones.

38:00

Who put it on? We're all getting in.

38:02

Hello, hello, my name's Roger Moore. I will

38:04

be your guide to the Forbidden City. This

38:08

is where former Bond was built. I mean, I

38:11

went with my son to see Live

38:14

and Let Die again about a

38:16

year ago. And I'd forgotten that Live

38:18

and Let Die is probably one of the most

38:20

recent films ever made. Because what

38:22

it does, it tries

38:24

to sort of harness

38:26

the Black exploitation genre. Which,

38:29

when it's starring Black people, is one

38:31

of the great cinema

38:34

genres of the 70s. But when

38:36

it's starring Roger Moore, who's the

38:38

whitest man in acting

38:40

history, it doesn't

38:42

work. And it's mind-blowingly

38:45

racist as a film, Live and Let

38:47

Die. What's your favourite Bond line? Well,

38:52

I thought Daniel Craig in

38:54

the first one, Closino Royale he

38:56

did, was spectacular. And

38:58

I thought that bit where, at

39:01

the beginning, before the credits, where

39:03

he's intercepted a

39:05

spy, a city, a double agent, a

39:07

city unknown, and named. And

39:10

they're talking about how Daniel

39:12

Craig has killed the contact.

39:16

And the spy who's a head

39:18

of station, a MI6 head of station, who's turned

39:20

double agent and says, but I'd

39:22

have known if you need two kills

39:25

to be a double-O. And

39:27

he says, don't worry, the second one is. And

39:30

Craig shoots him and goes, yes, considerably.

39:34

I love that. I think that's a great moment.

39:36

But there are so many, aren't there? I don't

39:38

think you can beat the Sean Connery on the

39:42

gurney with the laser. Oh, inching

39:44

towards his testicles. He

39:47

started to get a bit panicky. And who's

39:49

the villain in it? According to Gulfinger. Gulfinger, and he

39:51

says to Gulfinger, I suppose you expect

39:53

me to talk. And he, Gulfinger says, no bond, I

39:55

expect you to die. I don't expect you to talk.

39:57

I expect you to die! I

40:01

love Purost in powers. Brilliant. Well

40:03

Barbara from Elton, thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you

40:05

for that question. And don't forget,

40:07

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40:10

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41:34

and monetize their podcasts

41:36

everywhere.