1:29

on

2:01

the IRA bombings of 96 football

2:04

trouble education growing

2:07

up South Manchester North Manchester

2:10

it's it's a really really

2:12

interesting story it's part biography

2:15

and parts of sandbikes from other people

2:17

I say in our chat you know it

2:20

kind of reads like a documentary we're talking

2:22

heads and that's

2:25

a thoroughly lovely thing it comes out

2:27

available for you to buy on the 24th that's

2:29

next Monday

2:32

and if you're in Manchester

2:34

you can go to one of my favourite

2:36

book shops the Waterstones in

2:38

Dean's Gate that's Thursday the 27th Dave

2:41

is going to be in conversation with Jay

2:43

Mottie talking about the book reading for the book

2:46

and you can buy the book it probably signed the book it's all

2:48

about the book so yeah go

2:50

and do that but first

2:53

to wet your appetite

2:56

let's get into it right

2:58

now with a welcome return this

3:01

is the Two Shot podcast with a lovely

3:04

Dave Scott enjoy and

3:07

I'll see you at the end Dave

3:10

Scott's lovely to see

3:12

and it's been years it's been

3:15

years since you're on the podcast yeah

3:17

I was actually listening back to it the

3:19

other day and not for ego reasons but just

3:21

to remember how long ago it was I think it was 2017 2018 it's

3:25

a long time long time ago and something

3:29

that we've incorporated since then

3:31

is this little icebreaker star

3:33

so I'm gonna fire some random

3:36

questions off you interpret them however

3:38

you wish it's got

3:41

a good film or a good book a

3:43

good book I'd go for Gregory

3:46

David Roberts Shanta Ram I

3:49

picked that up when I was backpacking through India

3:52

and I finished just made a series out of actually

3:54

on Apple I don't think it's supposed to be as good

3:56

as the book but yeah absolutely amazing

3:58

sort of journey through the

3:59

the underworld of India, so that's

4:02

one of my favourite books of all time. And I'll

4:05

just go really cliche because I just can't

4:07

get enough of The Godfather. Like I've seen

4:09

that film countless times and still always getting something

4:11

from it. Scotty, a Saturday

4:14

night or a Sunday morning? Oh,

4:16

I'm trying to stay well-behaved these

4:18

days. So I'd say a Sunday

4:21

morning, but I do miss Saturday nights.

4:23

I tend to roll into Sunday mornings, Craig. They

4:25

do. They do. Well, oh, they

4:27

did. They certainly did.

4:29

You can go back in time.

4:32

You can see a band. Who

4:35

is it? Where is it? When

4:37

is it? Ooh. You

4:40

know, I'd really like to see sort of like

4:43

Sam Cooke. I think it was Harlem, Harlem,

4:45

Harlem Square, was it the live album? Where

4:48

you can start in New York. He's just I don't think

4:50

that's one of the best live albums of all time. And

4:52

you'll disagree with me. I know with Bill Withers at

4:54

Carnegie Hall. I will. Yeah. But

4:57

I mean, yeah, they're both the both seminal albums. But

4:59

yeah, they are. They are just that moment in sort of

5:02

in America and in New York and stuff. You can

5:04

just really feel a sort of sweat and vibe in that club. And

5:06

I mean, Sam's voice is one of the greatest of all time.

5:08

Now, we've all dreamt

5:10

of being on desert island desks. David

5:12

Scott. Just tell

5:15

me one of your tracks, one

5:17

track you're taking to the desert

5:19

island. And I'm

5:22

going to go for

5:24

the love song from

5:26

any

5:27

old moda Colne's cinema

5:30

parody soundtrack. Oh, it's a good

5:32

choice. Why that? That's going to evoke

5:35

some emotion. But that's that's the whole thing. I think

5:37

sometimes I'm obviously I'm a huge fan

5:39

of lyrics and stuff. But I've been I

5:42

mean, I love that film to

5:44

no end, but it just it does. It evokes enough

5:46

emotions that you don't need any sort of words and stuff. And I imagine,

5:48

you know, you're longing for stuff. Why you're on

5:50

your desert island? Good. Oh,

5:52

no, Scott. Good. Oh, no. Now,

5:55

obviously, we're here to talk

5:58

about your new book. Mancunians,

6:01

where do we start? Where do I begin?

6:03

But where do we start, Scott?

6:05

What's going on? Where is our kid

6:08

dead? Is he alive? Has he

6:10

been put out to pasture? Because since we

6:12

last spoke, you're

6:14

on BBC Radio Manchester a lot.

6:17

You're podcasting. You've

6:19

written this incredible book.

6:22

And I tell you what is so refreshing is

6:25

to open your book and not have

6:27

the first page about the

6:29

Hacienda, which a lot of

6:32

Manchester books seem to be. So

6:34

tell me what's going on since we last spoke.

6:36

I'm sure there's a lot to cover and

6:39

we'll move on to the book slowly. Yeah, of course. I

6:41

mean, the whole R

6:43

kid thing served a purpose in

6:47

getting my name out there and giving me a platform.

6:50

But it started to feel a little

6:52

bit like a rain soaked

6:55

parker

6:55

to use some imagery. But

6:58

the whole thing behind it was it's supposed to be a little

7:00

bit of a parody,

7:02

you know, in the same way that Steve Coogan

7:04

did Paul Calf.

7:06

That was the whole idea around it.

7:08

And the more sort of success

7:11

I was getting in that it felt

7:13

like the two worlds were merging. And

7:15

in many ways, I was sort of losing direction of what I wanted

7:17

to do as an artist, as

7:20

a writer. And I sort of

7:22

lost my way. And it

7:24

was a surreal sort of experience. You sort of feel like it's

7:26

like bipolar, really. And you're not yourself,

7:29

Craig, from being like an actor and you sort

7:31

of get invested into a character

7:33

character. And then I was like, well, who

7:35

am I? What do I want to do? And I found myself having to

7:38

follow the path of this, like,

7:41

tear away that I'd created. I mean, some

7:43

of the stuff was biographical, but it just sort of it

7:46

was taking me down roads that I didn't necessarily

7:48

plan my career to go through. But I mean, I'm not looking

7:50

back at any regret at all because

7:53

it served a purpose. But yeah,

7:55

I'd say I kid in terms of the

7:57

poetry and stuff is dead.

7:59

I got a reminder, two weeks ago, that I had agreed to do

8:02

a gig and forgot all about it. So,

8:05

he's going to be resurrected for

8:07

one night on Thursday in Stockport. One

8:09

night only in Stockport. And how

8:11

did the broadcasting career start?

8:14

And how did you find taking to that?

8:16

Because it's a very different thing

8:19

when

8:20

you don't have the character there. You're

8:22

being you and you're talking to thousands

8:25

of people of an afternoon. Yeah,

8:27

funnily enough Craig, it was the week, the last time we

8:29

actually seen each other at Manchester International

8:32

Festival. So, I think we saw each other on

8:34

the Friday and it's a beautiful, beautiful day.

8:36

Yeah, it was. And then I was actually performing

8:39

at the festival the following night when

8:41

I was doing the music stuff with our kid. And

8:44

then it was part of the BBC introduces

8:46

stage. And I think that the heads of Radio

8:49

Manchester were at

8:50

the event. And then I got a phone call on

8:53

the Monday morning of...

8:55

She's gone now, but Katie used to run BBC

8:57

Radio Manchester, saying, would you like to come in for an interview? So

9:00

I just presumed it was off the back of the performance.

9:03

I thought I'd just like to reflect on Manchester

9:05

International Festival. And then she sat down

9:07

and said, how do you feel about having your own radio

9:09

show? And I tried to play it coy.

9:11

It's like, well, you know, it's not something I've really sort

9:13

of considered. But in the back of mine, I was like, yes, please, just

9:16

give me that gig now. But

9:19

yeah, it's a...

9:20

I really enjoy it and not so much the

9:22

music, it's all obviously play listed and

9:25

there is a lot of great tunes on there and stuff. But that's

9:27

not what I enjoy about it. It's a lot

9:29

more the sort of being able to

9:31

tell stories and I think that's sort of been what my career is

9:33

about and I'll share over people's stories.

9:36

And it just seems like a different medium to do that.

9:38

And I do two shows on Radio Manchester,

9:41

one's a drive show on a

9:43

Friday. But the one that I'm really passionate about is the

9:45

Saturday night show. And that's called Upload. And

9:48

that exists solely as

9:50

a platform for emerging artists in any

9:52

any sort of medium. So there can be an actor, a writer,

9:55

a comedian, poetry, anything. And

9:57

then I have this sort of the honour

9:59

to share. this great talent on

10:01

the radio and find them a larger audience, because

10:04

that didn't exist at all when I first started my career, so

10:06

I've really got behind it

10:09

as an initiative, and it's the best performing

10:11

one in the country on the BBC, you know. That's

10:14

amazing. And was this an idea of

10:16

yours, that you talked to

10:18

BBC Radio Manchester? No, I wish

10:21

I did, but it came from someone called Adam Crowther,

10:23

who works at BBC Bristol. I

10:26

think he was the brainchild behind it, but in terms

10:28

of the Manchester one that we're doing, it's

10:30

very different to the others. Other people do just

10:33

15-minute segments in a different show, whereas

10:35

I've created a whole two-hour show around it.

10:38

And it's more than just

10:40

sharing their artwork. I also

10:42

get a round table. It's like in a couple

10:44

of weeks, I've got Dave Haslam on to come on, and

10:47

I've set him next to a poet. And then you

10:49

just sort of see this cross-pollination of ideas from

10:51

different worlds of art. And

10:54

just for myself as an artist, I find it really

10:56

fascinating, but then it just sparks off conversations about

10:59

inspirations, working process

11:01

and stuff. So it's organically grown

11:03

into something way beyond why it started us.

11:06

I do love a round table. I love,

11:08

as you say, the cross-pollination and the

11:10

different discussions, and it just sparks

11:12

people's imagination.

11:15

And also it takes them back in time, if you're talking about

11:17

personal stories. I think we need to have

11:19

more of that on the radio, because I absolutely love

11:22

it. Dave, with

11:24

Being On The Radio, what have

11:27

you or have discovered about yourself

11:28

as a broadcaster and

11:33

about how much to

11:35

bring? Because it's quite

11:38

a difficult sort of tightrope

11:40

to walk about.

11:41

I remember when I started this, I was very,

11:44

very wary of giving

11:46

anything too personal on

11:49

the podcast, and slowly but surely. And

11:52

I know why, because I never wanted

11:55

this podcast... to

12:00

sort of be about me or it

12:02

to be any sort of platform for

12:04

me. So I was scared about how I

12:06

would come across, but slowly as I've got,

12:08

hopefully,

12:09

slightly more professional and

12:11

a bit more comfortable with myself

12:13

in front of a mic, telling stories and talking

12:15

a little bit about my personal

12:18

life,

12:20

I think, you know, certainly

12:22

I think I've become hopefully a

12:24

more trustworthy and

12:26

honest broadcaster. Do you know what

12:28

I mean? Yeah, I mean, I think I

12:30

referred to the first time we actually

12:32

did the interview way back when

12:35

and you just are natural, I think, Craig,

12:37

I'm not just saying that because we're talking now, but

12:39

I would say it's like creative counselling and just being

12:41

able to have that sort of you very easy as an interviewer

12:44

and you just feel really relaxed. And I

12:46

think that's what I tried to instill

12:48

when I first started doing the broadcasting. It was

12:51

it was a strange process,

12:53

really, because you got to learn more about yourself

12:56

on the job, because when I walked in, I thought,

12:58

I was BBC, I've got to have, you know, you expect to

13:00

do this BBC voice. And then

13:02

straight away, they're like, no, we want you for

13:05

you. And then you've got to sort of like break down the

13:07

barriers that you've already built up through

13:09

a perception that you've had as an outsider of the broadcast

13:11

world to actually being inside. And all the best

13:13

broadcasters are the ones who sort

13:15

of sound like themselves rather than trying to imitate

13:18

others. Like you'll hear people on

13:21

several radio stations like that. They're just trying

13:23

to copy somebody else. And I think, you

13:25

know, I don't know if people class it as an art form. It's definitely, you

13:27

know, I think it is. It's definitely sort of

13:30

a skill set that you need to try and be

13:32

honest and personal with it, but I understand like

13:34

putting yourself out there or your own

13:36

story out there in a larger

13:39

audience. I also had to tighten some stuff

13:41

in on social social

13:43

media. That was a quick learning curve. Like I

13:45

cannot know more sort of political commentary

13:48

from me. I'm not Gary Lineker.

13:52

But it is because you

13:54

can hear. You

13:57

can hear on the radio.

14:00

When people aren't being truthful,

14:02

I think. And it really

14:05

does ping out. And also, when people

14:07

aren't listening, if someone's being

14:09

interviewed and they're just, uh-huh, uh-huh, you

14:12

know, the ancient old sort of stereotype

14:15

of the DJ that's flicking

14:18

around his record collection and not actually listening to

14:20

the guests, you can hear it, you know? Yeah,

14:23

and I think you need that to get together, the better stories

14:25

from the people that you're interviewing. It's that you've got to have that

14:27

investment. And

14:29

I just think that's just really rude not to listen to what

14:32

people

14:32

are giving up their time and

14:35

part of their experience to you. Then

14:37

you have to listen to the stories.

14:39

But I know what you mean. Some people will just have a set

14:41

of questions in front of them written by themselves

14:44

or the producer. And then they'll just follow

14:46

that. I mean, each to their own, I don't really want to start bash

14:48

any of our presenters. But I really try to,

14:51

every single interview has to be unique because the person

14:53

you're interviewing is different to the one

14:55

previously.

14:56

Absolutely, I totally agree. So

15:00

how did you find, because it's

15:02

one thing with a mic in front of us and we're just having

15:04

a conversation now, but when you're in a radio

15:07

studio, you've got

15:10

to adhere to news

15:12

reports, weather reports, there's lots of buttons

15:15

you're pushing. And it's not

15:17

like

15:18

you can go through

15:20

that in your house before

15:23

you get there. So I presume you're kind of

15:25

learning on the job

15:26

with all of that. How did you

15:28

find that? I was a bit

15:31

daunted at first, to be honest. I thought, I'll

15:33

have a producer and they'll press all the buttons and all I'll

15:35

have to do is waffle. And

15:37

that wasn't the case at all. And you sort of sit behind this thing

15:39

that's like the Starship Enterprise.

15:42

And to be honest, once you start to get your head round that 90%

15:45

of the buttons you don't really have to use, it's

15:47

not that difficult a task. But

15:50

I enjoy it. Like the most sort of fast-paced shows, if

15:52

you've done like, if any

15:54

sort of breaking news has happened or stuff like,

15:56

way after the deviate between different

15:58

correspondents. So I'll go live.

17:56

the

18:00

way over the past few years the way that we consume

18:03

television as completely changed

18:05

you know is very few television

18:07

shows now that that

18:10

primary in and

18:12

is once a week you know succession

18:15

he's one of them the average talking about the moment

18:17

eight that once we the not drop in the box

18:19

that you know again that's

18:21

why people there like a podcast

18:23

i listen to a great while on a draw actually

18:25

these to drive back to manchester which

18:28

is called a very british colts but

18:30

she's a radio four which are highly recommended

18:32

a probably spoke about it in the interests of this but

18:36

people sometimes don't want to consume

18:38

it all together they don't want to super sized

18:40

a male they want the little the little morsels

18:43

the little portions each week and i think

18:46

you know chewed into a radio show every week

18:48

it does that and for for

18:50

anybody that doesn't consume

18:52

radio the way i do then

18:53

ah

18:55

i think that probably should yeah

18:57

you might you make critical point that a lot i think this

18:59

is hop in were on the saw verge of

19:01

a a shift in culture and

19:03

let let let's say a culture diet in

19:06

some ways that more people do enjoy that members

19:08

that was cool a moment way said it was not

19:10

last night if you miss that you know mean i

19:12

think this was all lost some

19:15

finn by been outta devour

19:17

what we have what we won our the fridge that is

19:19

netflix are in our our amazon

19:21

and i think we just got a little bit complacent

19:23

and i think some of the content as well because

19:25

i'm in a kind of the us as she

19:27

and on anybody's anybody's work but as the last of

19:29

the gets made you can spend more time on netflix

19:31

streaming looking for something to send you call

19:33

actually invested to to watch this stuff

19:36

oh my own absolutely

19:38

i mean i spoke to my son news light

19:40

twelve at the end of may and

19:42

i said to him we will discuss and

19:45

consuming television i'm what we should watch

19:47

at the weekend and things lotta as we do

19:50

and as such you know why i think maybe

19:52

there's just too much and he said dad's you know

19:54

what i have never expected

19:56

him to agreements only one i agree with

19:58

the i think there is just

19:59

I'm not too much sometimes. Even

20:02

said he went, I feel a bit overwhelmed with

20:04

all the content. And that's an 11

20:07

year old, almost 12, who just love

20:09

the screen, they love it all. They want

20:11

it now, you know? They don't

20:14

understand about, you know, going

20:16

to the video shop and choosing a video

20:18

on a Friday night. Wouldn't even know what a bloody

20:20

video is. How old do I sound

20:23

right now? Now, big up the black block, hashtag

20:25

block, what's the massive amount? I'm there with you Craig.

20:28

But yeah, it's really interesting that your

20:29

son who's reaching the age of 12

20:32

has that viewpoint. Do you think we're

20:35

creating better content because it's easier to make nowadays?

20:37

Or do you think, you know, back in the day, there used to

20:39

be a lot more sort of, like look at the music industry,

20:42

sort of tastemakers and stuff. And it's great that anyone can make

20:44

music, but because it's such an onslaught

20:46

of any sort of art, do you think that

20:49

it's getting diluted? I do, I think,

20:52

I think there needs to be more quality control.

20:55

You

20:57

know, I've said this before, just because

21:00

we can go to bed and,

21:03

you know, make

21:07

a baby doesn't make us parents.

21:10

And just because anybody

21:12

with a mic can make a podcast,

21:15

doesn't mean that they should. You know, I

21:17

think there is too much out there. Obviously,

21:20

if we're talking about television and films,

21:22

it's much more difficult to make

21:25

on a certain level because of budget. But

21:28

then again, I've seen films

21:31

certainly over the past 10 to 12

21:33

years that people have made on their

21:36

phones

21:37

with very, very minimal

21:39

budget and are fantastic. But why? Because

21:41

the script is good, because the stories are there, because the

21:43

performances are on point. You

21:45

know, just because you throw a load of money at something

21:48

doesn't mean it's going to be,

21:52

we're going to have that water cooler moment or

21:54

people are going to be buzzing and talking about it. Because

21:56

if the quality is not there, it's just not there

21:58

and you can say that.

23:59

Save up to 30% with USAA safe pilot. Restrictions

24:04

apply. So,

24:06

Dave, let's talk about your new book.

24:08

It's called Mank unions. Where do

24:11

we start? Where do I

24:13

begin?

24:15

How did this come about? Was this something...

24:18

Because it's been released on Manchester University

24:20

Press. So is this something, an idea

24:23

that was brought to you or you

24:25

took the idea to somewhere else? It

24:27

started following a... I

24:30

was on Clint Boone's Excess Humans

24:32

of Manchester podcast. Of course you were. Very

24:35

good it was too. I enjoyed it. Cheers, man. During

24:37

the pandemic and then

24:40

the University Press got in touch because

24:42

during the interview I mentioned that

24:44

my sort of frustrations at Manchester

24:46

just being seen as the hacienda

24:48

and we did absolutely nothing else but that. But

24:51

then I was looking at the other bands that came from

24:53

the city during my formative

24:55

years, like sort of Dove's Elbow, Baddly

24:58

Drone Boy, Iron Clue and so on. And they said, would

25:00

you be interested in writing a book? And

25:02

it was a little bit... I remember the initial

25:05

email because I had to send it to a friend. I said, are these

25:07

asking me to write a book or asking to use my name? So

25:09

they come write a book. And I was like, what's going

25:11

on here? Anyway, so we had a conversation

25:14

and then we looked at the period that...

25:18

about 97 or 96 when the bomb happened. And

25:21

I couldn't believe. And still to this day, I mean,

25:23

a week until the book's released, that nobody

25:26

has written a book about this period in Manchester,

25:28

like the turn of the millennium. And

25:31

the more us that started writing a premise and

25:33

looking at the sort of different strands

25:36

of interest that were going on at the city, you've got the beginnings

25:39

of regeneration within

25:41

Manchester City Centre. You've got the gang's problems

25:43

in the south. You've got this new burgeoning

25:46

creative collective that's happening on

25:48

Oldham Street before it became this sort of hipster's

25:51

conclave that it is now the football

25:53

clubs are going through huge transitions. You know what I mean?

25:55

And everything just started like... It's a huge

25:57

golden period that nobody's ever discussed in

25:59

the city.

25:59

So I was like, you know, it just felt

26:02

like it struck gold. And I don't want to sound that sort

26:04

of egotistical when I say that, but it's like,

26:06

it's a book that I'd like to read because nobody's

26:08

written it before. It's genuinely a thoroughly

26:12

enjoyable reading. I think what

26:14

you've hit upon here is you haven't

26:16

just, as you said, spoken

26:19

from 96 onwards and

26:22

about all those events

26:25

that were happening. It's a personal

26:27

story as well, because it touches, it's

26:30

part biography, part stories from your

26:32

life, but also you've got

26:34

little inputs from lots

26:36

and lots of different other people from different

26:38

walks of life, from, you know, fire

26:41

crews, people who worked in WH

26:43

Smiths during the IRA bombing, you

26:46

know, musicians, artists from around

26:49

Manchester. So how did that, was

26:51

that easy to sort of sew together?

26:53

And how quickly did

26:56

the tone of the book come to

26:58

you? Or did it sort of reveal itself as you

27:00

started working? It's a

27:02

mixture of both, really. I knew I wanted

27:04

to write it from

27:06

my point of view initially because it's

27:09

a lived experience. And I think I mentioned it in the book,

27:12

that Manchester's only ever seen from an outsider's

27:14

point of view, you'll never get a certain lens on it. So

27:17

I'm also focused on this idea

27:19

of one camera. And then I thought, I'm a huge

27:22

fan of modernism. So I was the likes

27:24

of Joyce Beckett, and just trying to

27:27

change literature. I tried to do something

27:29

a little bit different. So I thought, well,

27:32

it's my first book, why not, you know, you might as

27:34

well take your shot. And I thought, I might as well try and make

27:36

it interesting. So I started asking different

27:38

people if they'd be interested in contributing.

27:40

And they said, yes. And then the more that

27:43

people did, it just became

27:45

this, I think a sort of seller

27:47

is this collective memoir, well, it's my

27:49

life story in so many ways that, you know, is

27:51

the main thing that runs through it. But then everybody

27:54

else says that they're input. And I think through

27:56

that, you got to follow a picture of what

27:58

it was like from different positions.

27:59

perspectives as well. And what was really interesting was

28:02

the more people I interviewed, it

28:04

took me down tangents and roles I'd never

28:06

even considered. Do you know what I mean? Like

28:09

I know this, I know what happened during that time.

28:12

First interview, I had with someone and I was like, oh, I never thought

28:14

about that. Oh, that really happened. And then, and then

28:17

somebody knows somebody else and then

28:19

they'll get involved and oh yeah, but you need to speak to

28:21

this. And it was just, I was sort of growing this organic

28:24

network of Mancunians and

28:26

that's where the title came from early.

28:28

And I remember I spoke to Andy Hargreaves,

28:30

who's a drummer in I Am Clute, and

28:33

we got on really well. And they've come, a lot

28:35

of them have become mates in the process, you know, of

28:37

actually making the book and they're just, everybody was

28:39

so kind with the time. But then he texted

28:41

one morning and said, oh, Guy wants

28:44

to have a chat with you. And I was like, Guy, you know,

28:46

it was Guy Garvey. I was like, all right, yeah. And

28:48

the next morning I was on the blower to Guy

28:51

Garvey. And then Stan Schall got involved

28:53

or Damon, badly drummed boy. And then

28:55

you got like the people who aren't so much

28:57

in the public eye that were giving

28:59

up their valuable time. But not just that, the

29:02

honesty in the, and the humor as well.

29:04

I think

29:04

that there's a lot of humor in the book and

29:06

the anecdotes. But it

29:08

just completely blew me away that it was

29:10

quite far removed from where my initial idea

29:13

was. And I'm glad that it didn't stick to

29:15

my premise initially.

29:18

And also the voices, because

29:21

sometimes when I'm reading, I see things,

29:23

you know, visually, because

29:25

that's obviously what I do. I think of things of this was,

29:28

it reads like a documentary. Do you know what

29:31

I mean? You can hear the so distinct

29:33

of the different voices as is yours

29:36

that just lift off the page. How

29:38

did you, did you make a short list

29:40

of people that you wanted to

29:42

come on? Because also you've

29:45

got such a deep

29:48

well of talent across the areas

29:54

of the arts. No, not just the arts,

29:56

you know, in Manchester. Who, how

29:58

did you sort of.

29:59

get that into a shortlist. I

30:02

didn't make a shortlist to be honest Craig, I

30:04

had a very long list and I fulfilled

30:07

an interview in I think over 102 people. I

30:10

think only 33 actually made the book. I

30:12

mean, I believe me, I could have turned this into like

30:14

a volume one, volume two, volume three

30:16

with the amount of people that I interviewed, but it was just trying

30:19

to

30:21

just keep the stories or the characters that

30:23

was going to sort of move. I think I wanted

30:25

the book to move at a pace rather than sort of be quite

30:27

laborious by repeating the same stories. If

30:29

there's any sort of people were saying the same

30:32

thing, but from a different point of view, I

30:34

didn't try to keep to that, but it's just,

30:37

I don't know, I'm probably gonna upset some

30:39

people because I've omitted them from the

30:41

book and that wasn't intentional. I'll

30:43

blame that on the editors. But I

30:45

said, right, who do I know that I'll have an interesting

30:48

story for this book? So

30:50

then I started writing one, two, three. And I looked at the

30:52

themes and I'm like, okay, media, who

30:54

do I know in the world of media? Okay, well, I've

30:56

met John Thompson before. He might give me some anecdotes

31:00

and someone knew Phil Meeley, the writer of Early

31:02

Doors and Royal Familiar. And then it grew

31:04

as I interviewed people.

31:07

So it was just, it was, in

31:10

the same way I hope it is for the reader, it was a discovery

31:12

for me.

31:13

So with this being

31:17

personal, it is personal. There's personal stories

31:19

in there. Did you make a conscious

31:21

decision to go all out

31:24

or were you sort of gonna keep something

31:26

back? Because it

31:29

can be dangerous and it can be a very brave

31:31

thing to do to sort of bare your soul on the

31:33

page.

31:34

Yeah, I don't

31:36

know. I never really considered it. And

31:38

I think anything in that I've ever done artistically,

31:41

it's just, I'm always honest with it. I don't

31:43

see that. I mean, I looked

31:46

at it in the sense that I might never ever get to write

31:48

a book again so far. Well, what's the point of me pulling any punches?

31:50

You know, I'd rather sort of leave

31:53

the tell the story as it was

31:56

and

31:57

I mentioned it at

31:59

the end of the book.

31:59

I

32:01

make like a note to my younger self because

32:03

it was hard, you know, like not reflecting

32:06

on certain things that have happened,

32:08

especially during like losing mates

32:10

to several different reasons

32:13

and stuff that happened to me. And it

32:17

something happened within me, like it's all like a recurrence

32:19

of PTSD. And I found

32:21

myself trying to write this book, Juggle Life and

32:24

falling down a huge rabbit hole because I'd

32:26

come across old photographs when trying to do some

32:28

research. And it just sent my head completely west.

32:31

I was like, whoa, but

32:33

yeah, I'd rather I'd rather put it all out there

32:35

and be honest rather than solve poor punches.

32:38

Dave, tell me, did you have a structure

32:40

when you were for a writing week or

32:42

a writing day? How did you go

32:45

about it? And did you stick to an

32:47

office? Did you go?

32:49

Did you go out to write? Did you stay at home?

32:53

Did you set yourself boundaries? Did you say, right, I'm going to

32:55

get up? I'm going to do nine till two

32:57

on the book. And what comes out comes out?

33:00

Yeah, I wish I did. I

33:02

did quite a lot of research before starting the book and

33:05

listening to other authors say that's

33:07

their writing process. And I tried several of

33:09

them. Like I think coming where I used to go up at

33:11

six and write till 12 and then and then

33:13

drink from one that didn't work. And that didn't last

33:15

very long. And

33:19

then other people try and keep very sort of business hours

33:21

nine to five. But the way of my

33:23

life, I've been a father of free girls

33:26

and juggling plates to sort of maintain

33:28

some form of income. It was a matter

33:30

of, oh, I've got a free space area

33:32

or jumping and write it and then some days

33:34

I couldn't get anything. It's like it's weird because when

33:37

I'm in the moment, I don't want to be anywhere else. But

33:40

when it's blank words on the page, I

33:42

don't want to be here. Do you know, it's like this is either

33:44

I'm either loving it or really hating, hating

33:47

the writing process.

33:49

And were you given was there a time

33:51

element with the publishers? Do you

33:54

have deadlines? Yeah, they

33:56

give me deadlines that they'd like to see a first

33:58

draft by a certain day.

33:59

and Fair Play to Manchester University,

34:02

it pressed me a little bit flexible with that because I was

34:04

relying on certain contributors

34:06

that I was waiting on to finish chapters.

34:08

And I said, well, if I hand it over and you've got half

34:10

a chapter, it's no benefit for anybody there.

34:13

And they were fine. So I think 18 months

34:16

originally, and I think it ended up being two

34:18

years in total.

34:21

And when you were interfering,

34:24

all these incredible, interesting

34:26

people, did you

34:28

give them sort of editorial

34:32

content?

34:35

Did you say,

34:37

look, you can tell me all this stuff,

34:41

but I'll let you see it when it's in

34:43

print before it goes, in case they wanted to

34:45

make any edits? Because obviously they're telling

34:47

personal stories as well.

34:50

Yeah, I did. I said like you'll get

34:52

signed off on any quotes

34:54

that I put out there. And

34:56

I think there was only one contributor

34:59

who asked for their quotes back to

35:01

be read, but everybody else was just, and

35:04

I mean, that was testament to the people that have

35:06

interviewed. They were just so, a lot of

35:08

them were humble in their

35:10

achievements. They were honest in

35:12

the stories that they're telling. I mean, you only

35:14

get like little snippets or anecdotes of their lives,

35:16

but we had like two hour, three hour meetings. And sometimes

35:19

it was like multiple, that they give

35:21

me lots more time to sit down and

35:23

talk about it. So yeah, so I mean,

35:26

I wouldn't want to be the guy who put

35:28

something to print because someone gave me a quote and I didn't run

35:30

it past them because I'd be absolutely fuming if

35:33

that, if the shoe was on the other foot.

35:34

Of course. I mean,

35:37

I've spoken to writers before and it seems quite

35:39

a sort of solitary process.

35:42

And with this, what you're talking to me now

35:44

about, it seems quite collaborative.

35:47

Yeah, yeah, it was, it really was. And

35:50

the hardest part I found was trying to work

35:52

out, right, what part

35:55

of whose interview I'm going to, I'm

35:57

going to take. And it was more like putting a puzzle.

37:59

that I'd done to a certain stage, like

38:02

I did the poetry that led to the music, the music led

38:04

to the broadcasting, broadcasting

38:07

led me to have an interview probably with Clint Boone

38:09

and then everything started being a stepping stone towards this point

38:11

so I'm hoping now that I mean this is where I'd really like

38:13

my career to go, writing

38:16

books and then I've also written a stage

38:19

play now what I'll try and get doing next year.

38:21

Fantastic, I mean it's all firing on

38:23

all cylinders at the moment Dave. Now you mentioned

38:26

water stones there before and I know

38:29

that

38:29

I think it's Thursday the 27th, you're

38:32

going to be at my favourite water stones which is

38:34

on Dean's Gaps which is many favourites

38:37

to many people. How are you feeling

38:39

about getting out there in

38:41

front of an audience and you

38:44

know for all intents and purposes flogging

38:47

your book? Yeah, I

38:49

always think creating something is a lot more

38:51

fun than the selling of something

38:54

and doing all the interviews and stuff.

38:56

I'd rather, like my publishers want me

38:58

to put more posts out and I was like listen I don't want to ram it down

39:00

people's throats and stuff but you've got to play the game haven't

39:02

you I suppose. My biggest fear

39:05

for returning to water stones next week is if

39:07

they've still got my picture on

39:09

CCTV when I used to wag school and steal books

39:11

from there to be honest. You've

39:14

come full circle. Dave,

39:18

is there a little piece that you'd

39:20

like to tempt our lovely

39:22

audiences with and read from

39:25

the book? I'd love to hear something. Yes,

39:29

okay so this is from the conclusion.

39:33

Mancunians are not a homogenised

39:35

people. The people and place

39:37

do not blend into one thing. Manchester

39:41

is not soup. We don't talk with

39:43

one tongue. We don't sing the same songs.

39:46

Our colours and creeds change like door

39:48

numbers on a street. The actions

39:50

of one person don't tell all our tales.

39:53

We are panhandlers stopping cars for change

39:55

under the Mancunian way. Developers

39:58

truffling out a cheap property. Parents

40:00

mourning the loss of their child to mindless

40:03

violence, imams ringing out the morning

40:05

prayers at mosque, families heading to

40:07

Shabbat in sheet mill, green

40:10

grocers stacking yams on Hyde Road,

40:12

newly arrived migrants seeking refuge.

40:15

We are addicts selling stolen gear from

40:18

the supermarket at the local pub, old

40:20

timers propping up the bars, clubbers queuing

40:22

in lines for lines and troubled teens

40:25

facing difficult decisions. We

40:27

are parades that celebrate our sexuality.

40:30

We are protesters fighting for acceptance.

40:33

We are media types living in multi-million

40:35

pound apartments, elderly people

40:37

being moved out of their homes in a name of progression.

40:40

We are dynamic corporation leaders in glass

40:42

skyscrapers where homeless people see

40:44

their reflection in the streets outside. We

40:47

are hipster restaurateurs, culturally

40:49

appropriating ethnic food and emerging

40:51

artists trying to carve a career

40:54

whilst a civic nostalgia shackles them

40:56

to the past. There are as many obstacles

40:58

as there are opportunities,

40:59

a contrast between conflict

41:02

and communitour. The whole may be greater

41:04

than the parts but it is exactly because

41:07

the parts are distinctly different that

41:09

makes this place what it is. Many

41:11

worlds coexisting within a 44.6 square mile radius.

41:16

We are the walking stories that make up a complex

41:18

and compelling canvas. It is only when

41:20

we look at the walks as well as its wonder

41:23

can we solve the underlying problems overlooked

41:26

as we celebrate our success. We

41:28

are a multitude.

41:29

People put together with the consideration

41:32

of a four year old with a paintbrush. We

41:34

are colourful, dull, irregular, sharp,

41:37

dangerous and ill-fitting pieces

41:39

that on the face of it shouldn't be placed alongside

41:41

each other but somehow manage

41:43

to accompany one another as part of a larger

41:46

pattern. To focus on a few

41:48

is to skew the view, to miss the

41:50

mechanics, to not take in the patchwork of

41:52

the tapestry. We don't do things

41:54

differently here. We live

41:57

differently here.

41:58

Manchester is a multitude. Oh lovely!

42:03

I feel really lucky now because I watched

42:05

your face as you read that. There was

42:07

a specific moment where you just

42:09

gave a little wry smile and your eyes

42:12

just curled up and I could sense

42:14

that you really enjoyed that moment. You really enjoyed

42:16

writing that. So Dave are there

42:18

any seconds left for the Waterstones

42:21

reading next week? There are,

42:23

I think there's 10 left Craig. Right, okay

42:26

so that's 30 27th at Waterstones.

42:28

You know I don't really do lots of plugs but for you I

42:30

certainly shall

42:30

because I'm thoroughly enjoying this book. It's

42:33

called Mankunions Where Do We Start

42:35

Where Do I Begin by David Scott and the release,

42:38

the publishing release date is...

42:40

What's up next Monday?

42:42

Next Monday go and grab a copy

42:45

and go and say hello to Dave Scott if you're in Waterstones.

42:47

Are you doing any more book, are

42:50

you doing a little book tour? Yeah there's talk

42:52

about it. I think the publishers are in negotiations

42:55

and I'm at their mercy in terms of where they want

42:57

to pimp me out. Well

43:00

enjoy being pimped out. It's a thoroughly fantastic

43:03

read Dave and thanks so

43:05

much for coming back on after all these years

43:07

and lovely to see your face. Wonderful

43:10

as always Craig. Take care my brother, lots

43:12

of love.

43:12

And

43:15

another episode is

43:17

done. Great to have Dave back

43:19

on. So chuffed that he's written this book.

43:22

I really really hope you enjoyed that

43:24

episode and if

43:27

it floats your belt why don't you go get a copy,

43:30

give it a read. The one

43:32

thing I didn't ask him, I

43:34

should have asked

43:36

him, is if he's doing an audio

43:39

book. So you could always

43:42

just stick it on, on the commute,

43:45

on the dog walk, on the treadmill, wherever

43:47

you are. Probably like you're listening to this now.

43:49

Are we going to be back next

43:51

week? Yes we are. I'm

43:54

just in talks with somebody

43:58

very interesting who...

44:00

We don't know each other very well, but every time we

44:02

meet, it's lovely.

44:05

And I've no doubt it's going to be a fantastic

44:07

chat. I'm not going to say who it is. I'm not going to do

44:09

that. In the meantime,

44:11

yeah, hold

44:13

your horses. It'll be within a few weeks. No doubt.

44:17

Do you have anything else to tell you? Oh,

44:20

I mentioned it on this podcast,

44:22

I think. I very much enjoyed

44:24

a new podcast called A Very

44:26

British Cult.

44:29

Which you get is documentary from Radio 4. Get

44:32

it where you get your podcasts. It's thoroughly

44:35

entertaining. Yeah, I think you'll enjoy it. What

44:39

else? What else? What else? No,

44:42

I don't think so. I think that's it. This has

44:44

been a very lovely, tight

44:47

episode of the two shot, and it's great

44:49

to be back. It really is. Right,

44:52

I better

44:52

get to work and sort another

44:55

episode out for next week. OK, let's

44:57

get back on the TSP train.

45:00

You got your tickets? Good. Let's go. I

45:02

don't know what I'm talking about. The sun is making

45:05

me delirious. Until

45:08

next time, I've been Craig Parkinson.

45:10

He's been producer, Griff, and this has

45:12

been the two shot podcast. You

45:15

take care of yourself. Loads of love. Bye. The

45:21

two shot podcast was presented by me, Craig

45:23

Parkinson, recorded and produced by Thomas

45:25

Griffin for Splicing Block. The remix

45:27

of our theme tune is by Stolen Volour.

45:30

Cheers.

45:54

And... ..to... ..to...

45:57

..to... ..to... ..to...

46:00

Tiki-fari-ta-fari, fari-ta-fari