0:00

The. Holiday Start here. A Kroger with

0:02

a variety of options to celebrate traditions

0:04

old and new. You could do a

0:06

classic herb roasted turkey or spice it

0:09

up and make turkey tacos, Serve up

0:11

a go to shrimp cocktail or use

0:13

simple Truth wild caught shrimp For your

0:15

first Cajun result, I'll make a creamy

0:18

mac and cheese or a spinach artichoke

0:20

fondue from our selection of Murray's Geez,

0:22

no matter how you shop for has

0:24

all the freshest ingredients to embrace all

0:27

your holiday traditions. Kroger fresh for every

0:29

one. Apple. Gift

0:31

card is a practical games that unlocks

0:33

a world of entertainment and fine. You

0:35

can send it via email or give

0:38

a physical car. Dear loved ones, your

0:40

friends and family can spend it on

0:42

their favorite Apple services including Apple subscriptions.

0:44

Apple gift card can be used to

0:47

buy all things Apple products, accessories, apps,

0:49

games, movies, Tv shows, I Club Plus,

0:51

and more. Visit apple.com for details and

0:53

to send Apple gift cards to your

0:55

friends and family this holiday season. Pillow

0:59

talk and some and this is the

1:01

to show how cast of the go

1:03

on the most guy then. Ah

1:22

ah ah. Ah

1:25

that have a lawyer at

1:27

a we are all most

1:29

of the and are we

1:32

feeling good? That's

1:34

real positive so clearly that.

1:38

It's. The tied

1:40

coming of com for a

1:42

walk on the beach. I'm

1:45

not for any reasons of

1:47

reflection or melancholy in any

1:49

way. know it for couple

1:52

of reasons actually. A

1:56

What was a couple reasons. Well,

1:58

the first, the main reason. is

2:01

my guest this week, lives by

2:03

the same side. It's

2:05

the fantastic comedian,

2:08

author now,

2:13

and 8 out of 10 cats,

2:15

favorite, Mr. Joe Wilkinson.

2:19

So we were messaging back

2:21

and forth, because we live not

2:24

too far from each other. And

2:27

we hadn't met at all,

2:29

so there's just emails going

2:31

back and forth, arranging times

2:33

and dates and what have

2:35

you. And I said to Joe,

2:37

I said, how about

2:40

if we start the podcast

2:43

down by the beach and

2:46

we record just before we go for a swim,

2:48

and then just after, and then we can head

2:50

back to mine and get the cattle on and

2:53

warm up. I thought that would

2:55

be a lovely icebreaker. Yeah,

2:58

that didn't happen. It

3:01

had been quite a rough few days. And

3:04

then, like today,

3:07

it's absolutely beautiful. And

3:10

that was my second reason to record

3:12

outside, because for the rest of the

3:14

week, I think it's going to be chucking it down. So

3:18

I think we do speak about it on the

3:20

podcast, though, about

3:23

how it would have been quite a

3:25

beautiful start to an episode,

3:28

especially when we haven't met. So, yeah,

3:31

Joe turned up early

3:33

doors around my house, knocked on the

3:35

front door, came in, and that was the first time we

3:37

met. We got the cattle

3:39

on and we started talking.

3:43

And honestly, I think this

3:47

is going to be one of your favorite episodes.

3:50

I think it's going to jump right into

3:54

your top ten. Not your

3:56

top five. It certainly

3:58

did for me. And

4:02

it's lovely as we're coming to an

4:04

end to have one

4:06

of those episodes where

4:09

you're kind of a little bit nervous,

4:11

a bit on your guard because you

4:13

haven't met before. So

4:16

who knows what's going to happen on either

4:18

side. But luckily it

4:20

turned out to be completely

4:23

joyful and he's an incredible

4:25

company as you're going

4:27

to find out. Now yes

4:30

you may know Joe as a stand up, you

4:32

may have seen him in 8 Out of 10

4:34

Cats, you may even have seen him in the

4:37

brilliant comedy Him and Her for

4:39

the BBC. But

4:43

maybe you know him as a fantastic

4:45

podcaster himself and

4:47

David Earl host a

4:49

show called Chatterbix that's on

4:51

3 times a week, I

4:54

highly recommend it.

4:58

It's not your usual 2 comedians

5:01

sat down talking, drivel,

5:04

I mean, well there

5:07

is the occasional drivel

5:10

after the whole podcast. But

5:12

they very rarely talk about themselves

5:14

that much, they have great guests,

5:18

they go on little

5:20

expeditions and record outside which

5:22

is lovely. So

5:25

yeah I highly, highly recommend Chatterbix

5:28

with Joe and his comedy

5:30

writing partner David Earl. Well,

5:35

there's a sunset

5:38

here down on the beach in

5:41

Brighton, I'll

5:43

invite you into my house and

5:45

let's together welcome. Mr.

5:49

Joe Hawkins, you enjoy, I'll see

5:51

you at the end. you're

6:01

putting the caribos on it. Do

6:03

you want, let me

6:05

just get it on my chair. Do

6:11

you want the truth or? I'd love that you

6:13

want the best release. We

6:18

can cut this out anyways. I

6:21

feel it's such a

6:23

saturated market now. And

6:26

when, when I started, probably

6:28

what, six years ago. Oh

6:33

wow. Right. There was, there was

6:35

fair for you, but not like it is now.

6:38

And I feel

6:40

like now you've had a good run. Right.

6:43

Maybe now it's a bit dignity and ending

6:45

now as well, isn't it? You know, when

6:47

it's becomes the, it's becoming a bit of

6:49

a sort of joke, isn't it? Someone's starting

6:51

a new podcast or podcast or whatever. So

6:54

yeah, if you sort of go, if you bow out

6:56

now, you go, oh, it's very classy. I think so.

6:58

But when I, when I made

7:00

the decision and me and my producer spoke

7:02

about it and we went, okay, let's, let's

7:05

do it. I

7:07

couldn't record, I wanted to record a, like

7:09

an announcement to everybody. So this is what's

7:11

going to happen. So I went down to

7:13

the beach and

7:16

I thought I'll just be here on my own.

7:18

I can walk by the beach because I find

7:20

it very calming. Yeah. And that'll be a good

7:22

place. And it was only when the words started

7:24

coming out of my mouth because I tried to

7:27

script it and it just sounded like a script.

7:29

Yeah. It doesn't sound natural. So I went down

7:31

to the beach, thought this would be a nice place

7:33

and I'd just be on my own. And

7:35

the words came out of my mouth and then I

7:37

started getting rid of it. Oh my God. It's

7:40

six years, isn't it? It's real. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

7:42

Oh, shame. Well, you know, I get it. I'm

7:44

not, I don't mean that shame, but you know

7:47

what I mean. No, I know what you mean.

7:49

Yeah. Yeah. But I feel that

7:51

when we were emailing for you to come

7:53

on this, I thought I'd scared you at

7:55

one point. I wouldn't have screamed. By asking.

7:58

I had this great idea of going. I'll meet

8:00

Joe for the first time and we'll jump in the

8:02

sea. The thing is, I

8:04

go for a swim on Christmas

8:07

Day. I do swim a

8:09

bit in the winter. Yeah. But the day

8:11

you text message me was like

8:13

the cold, it was like minus four. And

8:16

I was like, I did a sea

8:18

swim with Jen Brister a couple

8:20

of years ago in February on

8:22

a similar day. And I

8:24

genuinely thought I was going to die. Yeah. But

8:26

it was her and a couple of her mates

8:29

and they were so

8:31

hard to it. It shocked me because

8:33

I got in and I was making

8:35

the most ungodly noises. And these three

8:38

ladies were just swimming and I was

8:40

like, wow, this is really bad because

8:42

I'm like half on my legs. Like

8:45

literally screaming people kind of rushing

8:47

over but thinking it was something bad was

8:49

happening. And when I started

8:52

in April, I think

8:54

this year, I never done it before. Oh,

8:57

you started in April? Yeah. Because that

8:59

would have been bitter because that's the

9:01

cut all the winter's built up the

9:03

colder the sea. Yeah. But it was

9:05

all ladies. Yeah. Absolute

9:07

nails. Yeah.

9:09

It's mad. There's a group. I can't remember.

9:12

They've got a disparaging name of their

9:14

own. I can't remember what they call themselves.

9:17

But they're just in all

9:19

year. Yeah. And as you

9:21

say, there's no fuss. There's no, they're

9:23

chatting. They're chatting. They're getting them all

9:25

to their still chatting. Yeah. There's no

9:27

sort of like if you just don't

9:29

change. No, if you just had you

9:32

just could see their face, you wouldn't kind of be

9:34

able to tell the point. They sort

9:36

of hit the wall. Whereas

9:38

me when I'm shouting

9:41

expletives and and

9:43

also Jen's rule was you

9:46

had to be in for three minutes. Otherwise, it

9:48

doesn't count. Three

9:50

minutes is a long time when you feel like

9:52

people stabbing you. Well, I went in. I'd

9:55

had I think

9:57

about four weeks off. You

10:00

need to build out your tolerance then. Yeah. It

10:02

dies very quickly. And I went back in, maybe

10:05

about four or five weeks ago now, with

10:08

a group of guys, like a group of

10:10

strangers that meet on a Sunday morning. Oh

10:12

nice. Straight down here. Oh,

10:15

Jordan. Near the cafe. Which

10:18

cafe? Just before, the

10:20

little one before Rockwater. Oh I know. Oh

10:22

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sweet. It's called Lectus.

10:26

Yeah, it used to be called Spitfires or something. Oh did

10:28

it? So we meet at the front of there and no

10:30

one really knows each other. Oh that's nice. My partner

10:32

met somebody talking about it in the sauna,

10:35

you know, the horse boxes. Oh

10:37

on the front, yeah, yeah, yeah. And

10:39

she went, oh I think my partner might

10:41

quite like it. She told me about it and

10:43

I went, oh yeah, that could be good. And

10:46

it's all very nice, but they're all strangers, they're

10:48

quite huggy. Right. Just to be

10:50

human. And I

10:53

don't have a problem with it, but it was a bit full

10:56

on first time. I suppose it's quite

10:58

a moment, isn't it? Getting

11:01

in the sea this time. Yeah.

11:03

I get the celebration of,

11:06

kind of, we did it. I guess

11:08

skin on skin on a Sunday morning's a

11:10

bit, yeah. With the strangers, a bit full

11:12

on. Are you around for Christmas here? Yeah.

11:15

Because we go down Christmas mornings and I'll

11:18

send you the time. And we go, it's such a

11:21

brilliant thing. I love it so much because,

11:23

you know, we've got little dots of friends.

11:25

Not everyone's here, but everyone we know

11:28

comes down. And

11:32

myself included this year, there's so much trepidation, am

11:34

I actually going to do it? You know, and

11:36

then you kind of get

11:38

swept up in it and everyone does it.

11:41

But last year, the wind

11:43

was up and the waves were up. And

11:46

it was like, everyone got in,

11:48

but it was like, I remember seeing my

11:50

friends' wise legs in the air. And

11:53

she ended up upside down. She lost

11:55

her top and her shoe. So

11:58

it was a real win and out. But it's

12:00

great, I'll let you know. Look, I've

12:02

already said to my partner, we're going

12:04

down Christmas morning. Love you, love you.

12:08

Everybody's back at the house this Christmas, but then

12:10

we were gonna go down. Cause

12:14

the boys won't be coming down to the

12:16

front. No, not there. I've already planned on

12:18

going to, yeah, we'll definitely be. I think

12:21

we go down, it's like, I

12:23

think it's about half nine or something. So

12:25

really, it's such a lovely way to start

12:27

Christmas day. It's such a sweet, cause it's

12:29

really bonding and everyone, you know, everyone's gonna

12:31

do it. And the whole thing's like an

12:33

hour. It sort of just

12:35

doesn't take up much of the day, but it's

12:37

just really sweet seeing everyone. And

12:40

yeah, shocking how many people actually get

12:42

in. But it is a brilliant start

12:44

to the day. Oh, it's amazing. Cause when I was

12:46

filming down here, sometimes if I had like

12:49

a six o'clock pickup, I

12:51

would walk down from where we are

12:53

now, down to the seafront, jump

12:56

in the sea with all like the hard

12:58

60 year old lady, then

13:00

dry myself off and then go to

13:03

work. Well, it

13:05

just sorted everything out. Cause I thought, well, you

13:08

know, It's a cleanser, isn't it? It's

13:10

a total cleanser. Also talk

13:12

about starting the day off. It's like, well,

13:14

if there's fires to put out at work,

13:16

which there generally is, there's problems, there's always

13:18

problems, unforeseen problems, I'm going

13:21

to be in a better mindset. Yeah, it's not

13:23

cliche. It

13:27

really does make a difference. Cause

13:29

I know people that obviously it's not as good,

13:31

but they do the, I didn't know, been doing

13:33

the cold shower thing every morning. I

13:36

can't be bothered with that. I'd rather go in

13:38

the sea. Yeah, I'd sooner. It inspired me to do

13:40

it. We should have done it on the night.

13:42

Should have done it. And also it

13:44

is a beautiful day. Yeah. It's

13:46

really calm. Yeah, I think it is. Oh,

13:49

because then once, well, we'll do

13:51

it on Christmas Day. But when I

13:53

went back after a four week break, it

13:56

was, I thought if I'm going back in, I

13:58

need the support of a group of. Staying's

14:00

men. They're not the same, they're dangerous.

14:02

Stangers, yeah. But when in like 12

14:05

of them, so the support was there,

14:07

but it was really flashy. And

14:09

I'd forgotten about regulating my breathing and this

14:11

wave came up and knocked me right on

14:14

my arse if I was in before I

14:16

knew it. That's a good way in actually.

14:18

Yeah. Me and my friend Danny

14:20

did it a few years ago, maybe two

14:22

or three years ago. It

14:25

was teetering, I won't

14:27

say full on winter, because it was like

14:30

the summer was coming to an end. It

14:32

was like a coldish day, but the sea hadn't quite chilled

14:35

down. So it's because September's the best

14:38

month because you've had all

14:40

the summers, maybe October. We've

14:42

got, we've looked down and there's

14:44

no one in. And we were like,

14:46

don't worry about it. And the

14:48

waves don't look as big until you get in, do

14:50

they? We got

14:53

in and I remember seeing my

14:55

friend Danny look like he was in

14:57

a swirl. And I

14:59

saw him sort of go down a swirl and a

15:02

sort of curve away, go over the top of him.

15:04

I was like, we need to get out. And

15:07

then, but what happened was we sort

15:09

of like, that was mental. We shouldn't have done that.

15:11

And I couldn't see any flags, but I think it

15:14

was on a day where once he's

15:16

out of season, they just go, don't go into the

15:18

issue and say, yeah, use your common sense. But

15:20

the thing was, we then kind of

15:23

started people thinking it was OK to get

15:25

in. So people, people

15:27

came in getting smashed. Like

15:29

one one lady was just

15:31

sort of like clattered in front of it. And we

15:33

were like, well, I don't know

15:36

how to stop this now. Like, it's not my

15:38

place to say you've opened the book. Yeah, yes,

15:40

everyone was getting there doing it. Your benchmark. Yeah.

15:42

Well, those two blokes survived it. Well,

15:45

just about. We were in a swell joke. I just

15:47

checked your light on that. A

15:50

purple light. Purple light. Yeah. Yeah. Brilliant.

15:52

Just wanted to check. Yes. It's turned

15:54

into a swimming

15:57

podcast. Oh, yeah. I said about

15:59

being a cliche before. would be oh

16:01

you gotta you gotta be down here yeah yeah

16:04

I people go people say to me all the

16:06

time oh you're very bright very bright and I

16:08

go yeah fine with it absolutely

16:10

yeah it's not gonna be an age

16:12

thing because you having grown up in

16:14

Blackpool by the seaside I had

16:17

such an aversion to seaside really

16:19

and really

16:22

like all I saw

16:24

was the dark of the belly

16:27

yeah you know I mean cuz there

16:29

is well my wife was from a

16:31

vendor on the Isle of Wart and

16:33

she loves to see but she was she had

16:35

she had the same discussion with me about it the

16:39

the tourists version and the the

16:42

reality of this stuff and I was like oh don't

16:44

tell me that yeah I

16:46

don't know yeah because

16:48

it is very very different

16:50

to Margay

16:53

or I don't like

16:55

either of them I mean I'm

16:57

obviously I'm proud to be from the west

16:59

of England but we went for a weekend

17:02

trip to Margay having never been I just

17:04

went no just

17:06

really bleak it's been on the up and up

17:08

for as long as I've been down it people

17:11

are like yeah and I'm at

17:13

an age now terrible thing to say

17:15

but I don't want to wait anymore

17:17

yeah do you know man I'm I'm

17:20

heading towards 50 now and

17:22

I can't I can't have I can't wait

17:24

ten years for something to come

17:26

up we all did that in the 20s living

17:29

in shit areas on the off chance

17:32

no no I'm gonna try and I'm

17:34

gonna try living in the light well

17:36

we're more of the same age and

17:38

I completely agree but I think age

17:40

does come into it when you're looking at

17:42

somewhere like this because if I like before we

17:44

start recording was saying in my 20s probably

17:47

you were saying this wasn't

17:49

for me no no no no now it's

17:51

like oh yeah oh

17:54

yeah I did I I when

17:56

did I come in yeah like just as I was

17:58

turning 40 I think So

18:00

the timing was spot on. That

18:03

is spot on. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

18:05

Because London and places like

18:07

that, you kind of go, am I, you're

18:09

sacrificing a lot to be

18:13

near stuff, if you know what I mean? Like, I

18:15

don't know, parties or whatever.

18:18

And you don't, I don't go, I don't really go

18:20

to them that much in between these. I'm

18:22

definitely not doing it in my book. So why

18:25

am I, why am I cooped up? Yeah.

18:27

You know what I mean? So yeah, no,

18:29

well done for moving here. Oh, thank you.

18:32

And also very welcoming. Yes,

18:34

it is. It is. Absolutely. Everyone's very,

18:36

you made a right decision. But

18:41

not in a patronizing way. And also people

18:43

talk to you, but not in a nosy

18:45

way. No, right. Yeah, they've nailed it. Just

18:47

absolutely nailed it. I don't know how they've

18:50

done it, but I'm into it. You'll

18:53

find yourself doing a very sealed passing on, you'll

18:55

pass on the vibe. Don't want

18:57

to pass it on too much. Well, the

19:00

other thing is we shouldn't be talking about it because

19:02

I feel like you have

19:04

to keep it a bit of a secret. You know how

19:06

nice it is then it, you know what I mean? Like, we

19:08

shouldn't, but you know what I mean? You're like, if everyone knew,

19:11

why wouldn't everyone move? Well,

19:14

we should talk about podcasting first. Oh,

19:16

yes. Okay. I can't. Do you listen

19:18

to a lot? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All

19:20

right. I am very late adopted

19:22

to podcast though, but my friend

19:25

David was banging on about a

19:27

few years. He did one years ago and he

19:30

was like, I love him, love him. And my

19:32

friend, another friend of mine had one and I remember I

19:34

was talking to him the other day. Like,

19:38

I was just like, I don't, I didn't get it, you

19:40

know, what the point of it was. And

19:42

then I, my friend

19:45

Ross was banging on about doing one and

19:47

then I started listening to him and they

19:49

are such a staple of my life now.

19:52

There's this

19:54

sort of not addiction, not

19:56

the right word, but like if

19:58

I've got, if I haven't. because I find it

20:01

hard to start new ones because

20:03

I think you kind of fall in love

20:05

with the hosts or whatever they are and

20:08

they become very personal to you and it's like

20:10

getting a

20:12

new friend or something. So I don't

20:16

invest easily in new ones but

20:18

the ones I have in my

20:21

life I'm very very loyal to and

20:23

if those sort of four

20:25

or five that I sort of float

20:28

between. If there's not a new one

20:30

I'm a bit bereft. I'm like oh

20:33

god I need it. I do need something because

20:35

I'm going to go for a run

20:37

or I'm in the car and there's a few I listen

20:39

to if I'm

20:41

tired and I hope that's not

20:44

insulting. Some of them I just find peaceful and

20:46

some of them I

20:50

don't unimportant

20:53

what they talk about in a nice

20:55

as possible way. So if I don't hear the

20:57

whole act it doesn't matter

21:00

and someone precious about and I have to

21:02

hear every single word but some of them

21:04

like oh I fell asleep. Well if

21:06

I feel that one that's all right because I listen to

21:08

quite a few football ones. Yeah

21:11

and that we're the best within the world there you know

21:13

if I don't don't get to

21:15

the end of what happened at Old Trafford

21:17

on Sunday or whatever

21:19

the end of the world. So yeah I

21:22

am yeah I'm very big in them now.

21:25

There is a lot of rubbish out there. So

21:28

much. I think we've added to the bottom. You

21:34

enjoy making them though as well because every time I

21:39

always get a sense that you and David

21:41

really enjoy talking to each other. Yeah. Really

21:43

enjoy the guests and there's some incredible little

21:45

formats on there with the surprise guests. Oh

21:47

yeah. It's a brilliant it's a lovely thing.

21:49

Oh thank you. Yeah I love it. It's

21:52

what do we what

21:54

do we struggle with? I think struggle with

21:57

the fact that we do enjoy it so

21:59

much because Like

22:01

most people, you know, we

22:03

worked in lots of jobs and

22:06

most of our life was not doing what

22:08

we loved, you know. And

22:11

even like when we started comedy, there's a lot

22:13

of struggle with it and there's a lot of

22:15

toiling and a lot of knocking

22:19

your pan out or, you know, really

22:21

having to graft at something, you know,

22:23

working two jobs and all this kind

22:25

of stuff like everyone did. And then

22:27

to just do something you just utterly,

22:29

utterly enjoy. It comes with a little

22:31

bit of guilt, I think. And

22:33

it's a really weird thing to say and

22:35

I think we, you know, when we're

22:37

just chatting, we sort of go, I love it,

22:40

is it right? Is that all right? And I

22:42

feel like sometimes we go, should we do something

22:44

painful in the afternoon? Because

22:46

I really enjoy it. Do you

22:48

know what I mean? I feel

22:51

like if we

22:53

just do a couple of podcasts and

22:55

then I don't do anything

22:57

in the afternoon, I do feel guilty, like

23:00

I've taken the day off because

23:03

we've just chatted or met a

23:06

pilot or something, you know. And I'm like, well,

23:08

that was just great fun. Why

23:10

am I, why, that's

23:12

not working. We always say this is

23:14

bloody working. But of course it

23:16

is. It is, yeah, but it

23:19

just doesn't feel like it. No, of course it does. But

23:21

then again, and I don't

23:23

know what it's like to be on stage as a

23:25

comedian, but I know what it's like, you

23:28

know, to hear action and the cameras are

23:30

rolling. And then at the end of the day you go,

23:32

I really enjoy myself. I

23:34

was brilliant. I can't believe I do this.

23:36

Yeah. Oh yeah. There's

23:38

a sense of guilt there for doing what's love because, you

23:41

know, how many times you speak to people and you go, I just don't

23:44

mind my job. Oh, I'd say it's

23:46

90% of people. I

23:48

would say so. Because I did that for you. Like

23:51

I, I also thought I

23:53

remember like, cause I had lots, you know,

23:55

lots of proper jobs and stuff. And

23:57

I think it's really healthy actually. Like it doesn't.

24:00

give me an appreciation of everything

24:02

else I've done, everything

24:05

else and done loads of stuff, but you know what I

24:07

mean? And I forgot my point,

24:09

but basically I think kind

24:11

of, I have always sort

24:14

of struggled with the fact that it

24:17

is, you know, playing and stuff.

24:19

And I thought in my old jobs, I

24:22

did enjoy them, but I was not

24:24

kidding myself, but I was like, I

24:26

enjoyed them as much as you can

24:28

because it's a job because I've like, like most people

24:30

I've brought up, you know, you just, you

24:33

really are just putting a

24:35

roof over your head really, you know what I

24:37

mean? That's the sense of what you do. So

24:40

if it's, if it's not really shit, that's amazing.

24:43

So I was in like, I was doing a sort

24:45

of semi-creative job. So I was

24:47

like, well, that's pretty cool. You know, like

24:49

it's not, I'm not down to

24:51

mind, you know, so when you started comedy

24:53

or no, like my old job, I

24:56

worked in advertising basically. And

24:59

I look at it now and I didn't

25:01

enjoy it. I just enjoyed it in the

25:03

context of what it was. You know what

25:06

I mean? As in I'd work quite hard

25:08

to get a job that was less shit

25:10

than I'd done other jobs, if you like.

25:13

So I was like, this is great. And

25:15

then I opened Pandora's box and was

25:17

like, oh, there's more stuff you

25:19

can do that you actually enjoy. And my sister,

25:22

Steve Coogan, the other day, he's like, well, I

25:24

can't see myself. He thought, well, I don't,

25:27

you know, he was talking about someone, I've just seen

25:29

your Man Ray book. Sorry. I love Man

25:33

Ray. So he

25:36

was talking about, like

25:38

his friend talked about retiring or counting down

25:40

the years in retirement. And he's like, well,

25:42

I don't think like that because I've got,

25:44

you know, he's got to do what he

25:46

loves. So it's like retiring,

25:49

you know, I play five or so, it's like retiring for

25:51

five or seven. I love five or seven. I'm thinking about

25:53

when I can stop playing five or seven. I'm dreading when

25:56

I have to, you know, my knees go. So it's, it's,

25:58

it's a really good idea to do that. It

26:00

is too, I just think I do,

26:03

but it's left us with a guilt of

26:05

going, God, this is fun and we're

26:08

always talking about like this

26:10

thing that we could do and we can't, we

26:12

go, if we just did that and it covered

26:14

all the bills, is that all right? I

26:18

don't know, I guess so, but other

26:20

people. I think it really hurts. Yeah,

26:22

yeah. I think I was

26:24

mentioning this a few years ago to somebody else, but

26:27

we had to get up really early to

26:31

go somewhere. I can't remember, but we

26:33

were getting in the car at like

26:35

six in the morning. You

26:37

know what it's like now? It's all dark and everything. And

26:39

my partner went, you know, this is just

26:42

like normal people. Yeah. And

26:45

I took a little bit of friends by it and I went,

26:47

well, I still have to get up. Yeah. Very

26:49

sort of concentrated amount of time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

26:53

But I'm sort of with her like, because

26:56

I did it for a long time

26:58

and I was out. It's just really

27:00

similar happened to me a few weeks ago. I was,

27:02

I can't remember why I was out,

27:04

but I was getting in the car at seven. And

27:08

there's people, and it's not so much

27:11

now since COVID got more working

27:13

from home. And I'm really pleased with a lot of people

27:15

I know, like they're getting 10, 12, 14 hours

27:17

back because not

27:19

having to commute. There's still a few people

27:21

walking up my road towards the station at

27:23

seven. And I was

27:25

just like, shit. Yeah. That was a

27:28

big chunk of my life doing that. And

27:30

I'm like, every now and

27:32

then those things reset me. I go,

27:34

oh yeah, come on, Jay. It's

27:37

all right, isn't it? But

27:40

I don't know. I hope the guilt will go away, but

27:42

I don't know. I think maybe as I get older, I'll

27:44

go, you know, it's all right. You've done your time. Yeah.

27:46

And also, I think I

27:49

consider myself very

27:51

lucky, I suppose, especially doing

27:54

this as a part of

27:56

a career. Okay, I'm mad, innit? Well,

27:59

it is mad. And it's like I

28:01

get to meet lovely people and I

28:04

choose who I talk

28:06

to and I'm learning offload of people. It's

28:08

really I feel that's a really lucky thing.

28:10

I think with the DIY element of it,

28:12

I love as well. Yeah, where I'm like

28:16

as you know, like with loads of

28:18

stuff you've done, like you've been part

28:20

of big machines and you've been

28:23

a cog with many other cogs and

28:25

that is great, you know, but

28:29

there's this they're

28:32

not agile things. Yeah,

28:34

I mean with this, with this, well, this is

28:36

great. You've we've had a cup of tea and

28:38

we're sitting in your lounge chatting and there's been

28:40

no, can you start now guys?

28:43

We've got four minutes or you know an hour

28:45

and then crazy. You need to go over that.

28:47

You know, there's none of that. No. And

28:49

I'm very appreciative of all that stuff I've

28:51

done, but I'm also very aware of how

28:53

much I enjoy the stuff doing

28:56

chat a bit, just going, Dave

28:58

is going, he's right,

29:00

but he's back in a few days and

29:02

he might go, let's just recall. I've got

29:04

this idea or what we didn't finish talking

29:06

about that. Do you want to do that?

29:09

I don't know, half nine and I go, yeah,

29:11

go on then and just have to turn my

29:13

laptop on. Everything set

29:15

up and the media is gone. I love that nimbleness

29:18

and I like the

29:20

lack of someone sort

29:22

of saying to me, have you thought of this and did

29:25

it or why don't you try it that way because

29:29

that's that's great. But also sometimes

29:32

that puts a little bit doubt in your mind and

29:34

you know, you go, is it right? Whereas we don't

29:36

think like that at all. We go, we're

29:39

not let when we're making thousands of mistakes,

29:41

but we haven't got since you got a

29:43

boss who goes. Yeah, if we lost if

29:46

we lost 2,000 listeners off

29:48

the back of it, it's only affecting us.

29:51

And so I don't feel any sort of like

29:54

angst about going, oh shit, we need to tell

29:57

the production company that, you

29:59

know, we've. Yeah

30:01

because there's so many podcasts as you know now

30:03

that are like in-house and they've

30:06

got their own studio and it's like you've

30:08

got your slot and that's when you have

30:10

to record. So

30:12

that, like when we were chatting it's like should

30:14

we do it in the morning? Yeah what time

30:16

will I be first? We'll put a let's do

30:18

it at the doors. Yeah exactly. I love that

30:20

element and I feel those

30:23

parts of my life I'm trying to

30:25

expand the kind of the nimblest stuff,

30:27

the more DIY stuff. I just, and

30:31

I say I'm not taking away from any of

30:33

the experiences I've done but you know

30:36

I love going and

30:38

I'm doing stand up again and I guess

30:41

for the same reason I love, I've written

30:43

some stuff this week and I'm going to

30:45

try it tonight you know I love that.

30:47

Well I was going to ask because is

30:49

there a, and I don't know because I've never

30:51

been on stage but I'm fascinated with comedy and

30:53

I love, I saw you because I was sat behind

30:56

you at shoot and leave wasn't

30:58

I? Oh yeah yeah no yeah yeah I've just

31:00

said that we were reminded of it which was

31:02

amazing. Yeah what else is there? And

31:04

what a venue to see. Yeah the town.

31:07

I've seen it in loads of venues. Yeah I've seen it in many ways.

31:09

Yeah I've seen it in quite a few times in the day. It's beautiful

31:11

isn't it? Yeah. It's a

31:13

cracking venue. And it was a great show. Yeah

31:16

of course. I mean I thought I'd be that

31:18

way. Yeah yeah yeah. But is there a certain

31:20

DIY element that we have doing what we're doing

31:22

here to stand

31:25

up? In a sense

31:27

that you are your own boss.

31:29

Yeah oh yeah there is yeah yeah I'll

31:32

definitely like, it

31:35

has it, like I have a love-hate relationship

31:38

with it but I think

31:40

the reason I'm coming back to

31:42

it is because there's no machine

31:44

again. You know there's no sort

31:46

of asking for permission or what. You know

31:49

I mean you go, you

31:51

know like if you're trying to get a TV show away

31:54

it's, there's so many

31:56

layers to it and

31:59

I think we've been very. lucky we've got, you know,

32:01

we've made some shows and I love it and

32:03

I still want to do that but

32:05

I think it's a lot of waiting game.

32:07

It's a waiting game sometimes, you know, you

32:09

put stuff out into the ether and

32:12

I love the creative side of writing a script

32:14

or me and David come up with shows and

32:16

I love it but

32:18

if I just did that you'd be sitting on

32:21

your hands a lot and I don't like sitting

32:23

on my hands basically because there's an element of

32:25

me which sees myself as

32:27

a freelancer rather than a creative

32:29

person who, you know what I mean, so I

32:31

go, well if I just wait

32:34

then nothing might happen

32:37

whereas if I can be

32:39

doing something that I've

32:41

got, I'm the engine to, you know what I mean,

32:44

and the only engine then I

32:46

feel safer really and that's why I love the

32:48

DIY stuff and I feel like this is a

32:50

really exciting time especially for younger people

32:52

getting into it. I'm almost jealous of

32:55

the timing of writing, you know, like

32:57

we go, well there's

32:59

this opportunity to, so you might

33:01

not be someone who wants

33:03

to get on stage which is me

33:05

really, like if there would have been

33:07

another option, like I probably

33:09

wouldn't, if there had been this stuff now it

33:11

was probably very unlikely I would have done stand-up. So

33:14

what drew you to it in the first place?

33:16

Because I love comedy, right? I

33:19

love comedy, I love the mechanics of it, I

33:22

don't, I couldn't do that. Well

33:25

no I couldn't, but

33:28

I did, well yeah

33:30

through lots of trial and error but it

33:32

was my only way in, like

33:35

because, is anyone sort of

33:38

from any sort of

33:40

theatrical background in your life? In

33:42

my family, yeah. Not at all.

33:44

No, nor me, so maybe

33:47

you'd probably have a bit more about you than

33:50

me because I was like, it just didn't feel

33:52

like an option, not that

33:54

anyone said you can't do that but

33:57

just like it seemed a mad

33:59

choice. you know I

34:02

remember one kid at my

34:04

school I think got into

34:06

drama school I think and

34:08

it was like I don't

34:10

remember thinking it being

34:12

inspired it's inspiring me I think

34:14

because I didn't know I wanted to do anything really

34:17

I just thought it was weird

34:21

I thought what's he doing? Weird, ain't it? And

34:25

I was sort of like well where'd he go about that?

34:28

I remember sort of thinking he was a bit of

34:30

an alien you know what I mean like what the

34:32

fuck was that kid doing? And

34:35

I remember just going fair enough not like

34:37

going like dismissive of his efforts or whatever

34:39

I was just like saying

34:41

someone's going into the army

34:43

or something that's what okay not

34:46

my you know something I

34:48

thought about so I

34:51

thought me and my brother was obsessed

34:53

with comedy and I was

34:56

getting older thinking oh

34:58

what a you know that's

35:01

just the only way to sort

35:04

of touch it I guess was to do a

35:06

bit of fair enough Did

35:09

you feel that internally you had so

35:11

much to prove to yourself to get

35:13

up and do it or was it

35:15

that sort of niggling feeling? Yeah I

35:17

guess so it's not something I probably

35:19

would have admitted to myself I

35:21

think but yeah

35:23

I guess so like what

35:27

was it? There

35:29

was no career path thing it was just like

35:31

I wonder if I could be funny and

35:34

then it was always going to be a one-off it was

35:36

all yeah I'd say it was always one-off and there was

35:38

no plan if you know what I mean I

35:40

was like it was an open mic spot place

35:43

in South London that I was going to every

35:45

week and watching and I became

35:47

friends with the guy that ran it and the

35:49

guy called Ed lovely

35:51

man most miserable

35:53

man so I

35:56

loved him but he would he

35:58

would uh he would he would

36:01

start the gig by saying something like, has

36:04

everyone paid? And

36:06

have you been before? And if they said

36:08

no, he'd go, good, good. Basically

36:12

say these nights aren't great. But

36:16

I went for about a year

36:19

just watching and he said to me one time,

36:21

and I don't think I ever thanked

36:23

him, it's terrible, but

36:25

he said, do you wanna have a go? And

36:28

I sort of went, yeah. Cause

36:30

I don't think I'd ever have asked. I

36:33

wouldn't have ever had the courage to

36:35

say, I'd like to have a go,

36:37

just not in me. And

36:40

he said, I'll put you in for

36:42

January or whatever. And I think it was September,

36:44

so I'm like, right. And

36:46

that's how it began. And then I

36:49

wasn't aware of that. And then I met lots of

36:51

people that told me about, he

36:53

had him at festival and I remember hearing someone

36:58

talk about like footlights. And

37:01

I remember calling at the floodlights. But

37:05

I was amazed I was meeting

37:07

people that would been, had been

37:09

to like, Cambridge and would,

37:12

and had found out that there was this

37:14

thing they did and there was this sort of, and then I

37:17

sort of would read all about, and

37:19

I was like, oh God, this is sort of path.

37:21

And I remember thinking, how do these people know? How

37:23

did they know that, not

37:26

that I could have got into Cambridge, I could

37:29

be wrong, but they went, I'll go Cambridge and

37:31

I'll study history, but I'll do this thing, which

37:33

is just like, I

37:36

don't think it's just like a society, isn't it really?

37:39

It's not even like a course or anything.

37:41

They just know. I think, from

37:44

what I know, it's just like an offset, isn't

37:46

it? Yeah, it's a gang of them and they

37:48

make Edinburgh shows and they all seem to go

37:50

on and. I think it'd be

37:52

amazing. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, I'll say that

37:54

they all knew about it. So I met all these

37:56

different types of people and

37:58

then everyone I met. would tell

38:01

me something else that you

38:03

can do. And you know, and then I met

38:05

like Diane Morgan who was

38:08

an actor. Yeah, how did

38:10

you meet Diane? On the, on

38:12

the, on the, on the way

38:15

here with, um, on

38:17

the circuit, she was doing stand up, but she, so

38:20

we, we started doing stuff together and she sort

38:22

of like talked me about like, um,

38:26

kind of committing to stuff. And so I was

38:28

like, okay. And then I found out like, cause

38:30

I guess my way of doing stuff was sort

38:32

of, uh,

38:35

preservation. Yeah. I mean, try

38:37

and make a less, a

38:40

tit of yourself as possible. But then she

38:42

taught me like, if you go

38:44

with like 130%, you're

38:47

sort of dying on your own terms and all these

38:49

sorts of things. So I met lots and lots of

38:51

people. I'm not saying people shouldn't go to, to

38:54

drama school, whatever, but I felt like I

38:57

was getting all this stuff from people like

39:00

at a million miles an hour, you know,

39:02

like people going, now this is what

39:04

you actually need to know. You know, and you

39:06

know, this will help rather than, I don't know what

39:08

I don't know. I'm sure

39:10

you just constantly, constantly gaining

39:13

that knowledge. Yeah. Oh,

39:15

definitely. Definitely. I, I,

39:19

I don't know about yourself. I feel like every

39:22

time I do something, I go, oh, here we

39:24

go. How do we do it? And,

39:26

um, well, that's why, you know, we touched

39:28

about talking about retiring. Mm. That's

39:30

long ago. It's like, why would

39:32

I retire when I'm every, I

39:36

don't want to be like cliche, but it's

39:38

a brand new adventure. Yeah. No, no. So

39:40

there's knowledge and learning. No. How do we

39:42

say, why would I bother? Why would I

39:44

sack it all in? No, I'm enjoying learning

39:47

this thing. Yeah. And I've been

39:50

really lucky with, you know, like

39:54

I, I have got to do lots of different

39:56

things, which I think is really,

39:58

really amazing. like this or

40:01

acting or writing or whatever and it's

40:04

just been like say like hopefully

40:06

not too much of a challenge. But you

40:08

know what I mean like it's just been

40:10

like once

40:12

you get in to this world

40:15

and people you start to meet lots of people they they

40:17

sort of I don't know because you sort of come up

40:19

together they go I'm doing this thing do I want to

40:21

do a little thing in this and and

40:24

then suddenly you're sort of acting or

40:26

your I've done a podcast

40:28

or whatever and it all just

40:30

seems like one big happy accident to

40:32

me really. Yeah. Which is you know

40:34

I'm very again very appreciative of. I

40:36

mean it's one thing getting up on

40:38

stage as a

40:41

solo artist as a comedian

40:43

but then it's completely different

40:46

cat the fish working with somebody

40:48

else. How

40:51

did you feel that that was gonna go

40:53

with Diane when you started working together was

40:55

it? The

40:58

main thing I think of think about something like

41:00

that is we we

41:04

had a loss like it's

41:06

so hard to do the reason you can

41:09

do it is because essentially no one's employing

41:11

you so you can invest

41:13

so much time in it and

41:15

these things are always destined to die

41:17

in the nicest

41:20

possible way because you're either gonna

41:23

get no interest and

41:25

you're just going well this is mental why

41:27

are we still doing this or you start

41:29

getting work and you haven't got time to

41:31

do it and so it's it's

41:33

only when I look back we go oh yeah

41:35

like you you just it's

41:37

unsustainable because we would just be out

41:41

every night trying stuff and we had

41:43

a weird philosophy of

41:45

going because we always did edam

41:47

professionals we never we never

41:50

did old material. It's

41:52

mad when I think about it now but we

41:54

would go to gigs and just

41:56

try free for new sketches or whatever

41:59

and we didn't have any, that's all we

42:01

knew because we had to create like an

42:04

hour. Excuse me. We

42:07

had to create an hour,

42:10

which is actually sort of creating three hours, isn't

42:12

it really? And then kind of, so

42:14

you've only got certain amount of months

42:16

in the year. So we would just,

42:19

every time we went out, we'd just try three or

42:22

four stuff, you know, bits and then some of it

42:24

would work, some of it would work. And then it

42:26

was just, it was just, our

42:28

job was just create, you know, just

42:30

collecting material, basically. So we had

42:33

this really good work

42:35

ethic and stuff together. And yeah,

42:38

and then we did these ends of the shows

42:40

and then, you know, Diane, I assume

42:42

on my side, but was sort of

42:44

overlooked for three years. And

42:47

this was the time when, such

42:49

a weird time because people were like, you

42:52

know, we're looking for ladies

42:54

now. And we're like, well,

42:56

you are, you are,

42:58

you're saying it, you're not

43:01

weird. And I'm like, well, if you are,

43:04

then Diane's

43:06

like right

43:08

there and amazing. And

43:10

then so she was, I'm

43:12

sure she wasn't saying the sort of overlooked

43:14

for years. And then I

43:16

guess my frustration is like, everyone's now going,

43:20

she's amazing. I go, yeah, she's amazing. We

43:22

knew that years ago, years ago. But yeah,

43:25

so, so we, yeah, I don't know. It was just,

43:27

we just both had, we were younger

43:29

and passionate about kind of trying

43:32

to, trying to, I guess

43:34

in a horrible way, show people that

43:36

we were shit. I

43:42

was up at Edinburgh this year. I

43:44

was just, I was, I was seeing

43:47

some friends and I was just doing

43:49

some recordings and I

43:52

was quite overwhelmed by

43:55

the amount of shows. I think

43:57

it's small. I think it, well.

44:00

Yeah, no, the amount of shows is too enormous.

44:02

I think the audiences were down this year. I

44:08

can't go back. I've got PTSD

44:10

from that thing. I was going to

44:12

say because I know

44:15

a few stand-ups who

44:17

are friends, one of

44:19

them absolutely loves it and thrives

44:21

off the festival. I know he

44:23

really looks after himself and just

44:25

loves that. And

44:28

he's got quite a nice profile so he

44:30

gets the audience. And I've

44:33

got other friends who go, no, I

44:35

will never go back to that after I've done my

44:37

time. And then there's other people, when

44:39

I was looking at posters and I was going, how

44:42

are you getting an audience? Because

44:44

there's so many, Frank Skinner

44:47

was going in for like two nights. People

44:50

with huge, huge profiles who

44:52

will get audiences, no problem. But

44:54

what about the people with no profile

44:57

who work very hard? It's

44:59

a tricky one because I'm always like, I'm

45:01

like, do

45:03

you need to do two nights? But then someone

45:06

said, if you get the

45:08

higher profile people, then it does attract

45:10

people to the festival. You know

45:12

what I mean? So they go and see Frank

45:14

Skinner and five other shows or

45:16

whatever. But

45:19

when we went, we never

45:21

really got momentum in it. Because

45:24

like, I don't

45:28

know how to say this without sounding bitter. But

45:31

like some people just, like

45:34

the festival just seems to get behind

45:36

them and I don't know what that

45:39

means. But suddenly you go, who's that

45:41

person? I don't know. They're selling out or whatever.

45:43

You know, there's something, something

45:45

happens or the

45:48

right person, I wasn't

45:50

even tweeting then, says

45:52

something. I don't know. And we just, we just

45:54

always struggled and everyone was sort of going, well,

45:57

you're quite an Edinburgh act.

46:00

and it just never really took off for

46:02

us. But saying

46:04

that, like stuff come off the back of it, we

46:06

just never got an audience. And

46:09

so it's sort of talking to the

46:11

wrong person about how you get an

46:13

audience because I never did. But some

46:15

people just like with going

46:17

less time and less would be in the... but

46:20

then people would be like doing

46:22

their first show and going

46:25

for it because we would have like 50-seater rooms,

46:27

sort of that sort of size. But people would

46:29

be getting like they'd book a hundred-seater room and

46:31

sell it out having never done it. I'm like

46:33

what do you know that I've done? Yeah, what

46:36

happened? A secret formula. Yeah, this

46:39

isn't like you haven't even been

46:42

up the festival long enough to have got

46:44

word of mail. You know

46:47

what I mean? It's not Jerry Sandowits. No,

46:49

no. But it's

46:51

weird, I never really know, no, didn't I?

46:53

I was always like, an

46:56

unwieldy beast to me. And yeah,

46:58

so like every now and then I go, oh

47:01

maybe I should go back and have

47:03

a look at, you know, just this

47:05

is a punter. Do you go back

47:08

as a punter? No, I can't, no,

47:10

I can't, no. No, it's just like

47:13

even Edinburgh is slightly ruined for me out

47:15

of the season, festival

47:18

season. Yeah, yeah, because of my

47:20

friend always says the worst sound

47:22

in the world is your

47:26

suitcase handle coming up in Waverly

47:28

station. With

47:32

the drans. As you

47:34

drag it towards the cab rank. I

47:36

was like, I think he's probably nailed it. So

47:39

yeah, Greg David said something to me

47:41

once. He said, and he's not

47:43

a boastful man, he said, very humble man. He

47:46

said, he goes, he sorted

47:48

one Edinburgh basically and he goes,

47:50

he sold out every run every

47:52

night. He got really

47:55

only good reviews. He

47:57

got nominated the Perrier and he hated every second.

48:00

I was like, yeah,

48:02

pretty good. Pretty

48:05

good way of some people's

48:08

experience. Yeah. Because

48:12

even as a punter, I was up there 48 hours

48:14

and I tried to see as much as I could,

48:16

but you've got to be healthy.

48:18

Yeah, it's overwhelming. So to

48:20

go on stage every night, because I was talking to

48:22

somebody the other day about theatre and I don't really

48:24

do a lot of theatre at all. And

48:27

some people who aren't in

48:29

this profession would go, oh, but you're only

48:31

doing like two hours a night. Yeah, good

48:34

luck. Yeah, but it's the build up. You

48:36

get up in the morning and you're thinking

48:38

about your brains. Well, I'm sure it's probably

48:40

the same when you've got

48:43

like a two 30 show Edinburgh and

48:45

everything geared toward that. And then after

48:47

it, you just replaying. Yeah.

48:50

All the shit that went wrong. I think that's

48:52

the one thing I would advise them if they

48:54

were doing it is because like, no,

48:58

I'm not slagging anyone off who put shows

49:01

on, but like I,

49:03

the first thing I did it was like in this

49:05

package show and it was on really late. So

49:08

I was really inexperienced. I was doing like

49:10

a late night show, which was not

49:13

so as in a room was too big, but it was

49:15

on late. So I think it was on like maybe 10

49:17

45. So

49:20

you don't excuse me. You

49:23

only really come down as in

49:25

start to relax at midnight. Whereas

49:29

if I did like a one o'clock in

49:31

the afternoon show, the build up

49:33

is five hours rather than 12

49:36

hours, if you know me. And

49:39

that started me in a bad sort of pathway

49:42

of Edinburgh really. And then I think the

49:44

next year I did like maybe nine o'clock.

49:47

Because now and then at the end, I think

49:50

the last show was at four, I would never

49:52

do like a later show now. I

49:54

just do four, three, something

49:56

like that. And also probably mentally now.

50:00

I'm probably more

50:03

like I did an hour a few months ago

50:05

then I couldn't do another but I was like

50:07

I was mentally much more fine

50:09

about it anyway but

50:12

it's just giving yourself time

50:14

where you're not kind

50:17

of stressing about the thing and if

50:19

that's like some

50:21

part of my brain allows me to switch off

50:24

after the show and not think about the

50:27

tomorrow show until

50:29

the next morning and

50:32

I did the show with one lad in

50:34

the first day of the package show thing and he wasn't really

50:36

coping and then he

50:39

became this sort of really unhealthy sort of

50:42

he wasn't really eating the day and then

50:44

he was sort of drinking quite a lot

50:46

afterwards and you know and I think a

50:48

lot of people go down that route and

50:50

then it just because I never really even

50:52

when I used to drink I never drink

50:54

in Edinburgh really. I don't know how you

50:56

could sustain anything. You eat bad food and

50:58

stuff I

51:02

think Nick Mahama said this to me. You eat

51:04

really bad food and you drink and stuff

51:06

and you lose weight. That's how stressful through

51:10

worry. Yeah that's how stressful Edinburgh is but

51:12

anyway I think if people are going I'm

51:14

sorry if that's delicious it's going on I

51:16

think it'll go. But

51:19

it is quite an attractive prospect to go

51:21

as a punter. I do like going back purely

51:25

I saw Daniel Kitson's new show this year.

51:27

Oh yeah quite. And answered him for ages

51:30

and even just seeing that one show kind

51:32

of made it. Yeah yeah

51:34

yeah. Now it's an

51:36

amazing thing. I just think I

51:39

wish I'd approached it differently.

51:41

I just like it's you

51:44

know it got me to the

51:46

next rung if that's the way I'm putting it. You

51:48

know like I've got you know people

51:50

go oh you exist and all that kind of stuff.

51:53

So and I was

51:55

listening to something the other day about rights

51:57

of power. of

52:00

kind of like people talking about like doing

52:04

like stand-up as all the little clubs and

52:07

some people sort of miss out these these

52:09

things and miss out Edinburgh and it

52:12

happens a different way and whoever I

52:14

was listening to basically said again

52:17

kind of what we talked about earlier about like do

52:19

I deserve stuff the fact that some

52:22

of probably people my generation kind

52:24

of get annoyed at people that haven't

52:26

had to go and this person I

52:29

think was Stuart Goldsmith on his podcast

52:31

said good luck to them like if

52:33

you haven't had to kind of

52:35

trauma lies yourself yeah in the

52:38

process that's great why

52:40

do you have to be trauma lies and

52:42

they go through hell to get something

52:45

you know that's what I feel now

52:47

I'm like if I could have done

52:49

it a different way and probably had

52:51

well it is a different there are

52:53

loads of different avenues now because social

52:56

media yeah wasn't around

52:59

you know going back all those years

53:01

so there wasn't that self-promotion no but

53:04

then again you know it's

53:06

one thing creating a you know a

53:09

two-minute yeah you know

53:11

viral sensation to an hour show

53:13

well yeah I totally

53:16

agree and I like I go but I

53:18

also go if I

53:21

don't there's someone like Josh Pugh who's

53:23

brilliant but he's got a great brain

53:25

and his brain just he's

53:27

like it's different muscles in his brain you

53:29

know he does he's very funny like character

53:32

things and then he's got great stand-up and does great

53:34

hours and stuff so I think it's

53:37

just not being like a one-trick pony yeah

53:39

but then I started doing stand-up

53:41

again maybe a year and a half ago

53:45

what what pulled you back just

53:47

I guess the car I think basically

53:49

I just done a project which was

53:53

kind of like

53:56

a long process and then it got

53:59

cancelled which is part of the

54:02

job and stuff. But it's

54:04

such a, like when you've made a

54:06

TV show, it's such a big event,

54:08

it's such a big effort and then

54:10

it gets cancelled and rightly so things

54:12

always get cancelled. But

54:15

then I was like, God, if

54:17

we start another one of those, that's a

54:19

big... It's a huge

54:21

commitment. You're building it from the ground.

54:23

Yeah, because you're creating a world and

54:26

you don't know anything so weird

54:28

and you think, okay, you know,

54:30

they have to have magic characters

54:32

and story. Yeah. Really?

54:36

That sounds like, whoa. Yeah, it sounds like a lot of work. I

54:38

guess we'd just come to the end of this

54:41

thing and I was like, well, maybe

54:44

do something immediate. And I went to this, I

54:46

did this gig in,

54:50

my friend Matt's gig in Oxfordshire.

54:54

As a drop in, like as a 20 minute... Yeah,

54:57

yeah. Yeah. So it

54:59

was like a couple of other

55:02

acts, me and with Chan and

55:04

they're both really lovely younger

55:06

people. And

55:09

they were talking about like,

55:11

like stand up is

55:14

really hard and it's like takes real

55:17

effort and thought and stuff. But they, with

55:20

Chan and they're both lovely as I say,

55:22

but they were talking about all

55:24

these other things they had to think about as

55:26

well. Like one

55:29

of them was saying, their

55:31

agent was saying, you've got to have

55:34

an online presence or have a

55:36

thing that people can hook

55:39

into all this sort of stuff. And I was just

55:41

like going, oh no, it's

55:43

actually too much to think about. It's

55:45

like, like

55:47

do one of them well. It was what I

55:49

was thinking in my head and it's none of

55:51

my business. But it was like, they were sort

55:53

of taking, having to take on all this different

55:55

stuff. And I was like,

55:58

you got a gig in 20 minutes. I've

58:00

only been going for years. And also

58:02

like there's this other thing where people

58:04

are kind of getting like

58:07

a big profile and then maybe

58:10

kind of being I

58:12

don't know thrown into like like then doing

58:14

a tour and that

58:16

must be really scary if you haven't done a

58:19

lot of stand-up you know and stuff I don't

58:21

know it's just I just do think especially nowadays

58:23

with mental health stuff but I never thought of

58:25

it as mental health. Well it wasn't around then

58:27

was it? No, no, we

58:29

just say fucking scary.

58:33

But like they must be going

58:35

fuck I've got this opportunity I've

58:38

got then maybe their agent and right

58:40

you know right so that's the deal

58:42

but we're going we can sell

58:44

out a tour but that could

58:46

be that could be really detrimental to

58:48

you if you do a tour

58:50

when you're maybe not ready and you don't

58:53

enjoy it and you may never do it again

58:55

whereas if you did a bit later and you

58:57

loved it and you could it and

59:00

then you could do ten of them yeah yeah I mean

59:02

you could do it for the rest of your adult life

59:04

you know I mean it's like I

59:06

could do that in your 60s. Do you want me if

59:08

you want it if you love it? Don't

59:10

know it's just like I

59:12

don't know what I think half the time because I

59:14

am aware of my age as well do you know

59:16

I mean I don't want to be that person going

59:19

we did it that way so I'm

59:22

not saying that's right I just do go

59:24

god it just seems a little bit overwhelming

59:26

now yeah to me but that might be

59:29

my age as well also you got to

59:31

find it in anything any sort of any

59:33

of the creative arts what what works for

59:36

you yeah what one works one way might

59:38

work for them and won't work for you

59:40

regardless of age yeah definitely I was probably

59:42

the wrong person to quite nowadays but Graham

59:45

Linahan said if everyone's talking about

59:47

sitcom stuff and I think it's

59:49

the best one of the

59:52

best bits of advice I've heard if everyone's

59:54

doing sitcoms about

59:56

I don't know

59:58

single camera melancholy

1:00:01

sort of stuff, do

1:00:04

big silly studio ideas

1:00:06

because they've got those. Yeah.

1:00:09

And everything's circular. So

1:00:12

they'll think that's what

1:00:14

they want for eternity, but they won't.

1:00:17

And you'll be right in one of those and you'll be

1:00:19

behind the curve. So if

1:00:21

everyone's doing short

1:00:26

characters online, it's

1:00:28

going to take you a couple of years to think something good.

1:00:31

So don't do that. Yeah. By

1:00:33

the time you've got a good one of those, it

1:00:35

will be gone and it'll be something else. So start

1:00:37

thinking about something. Right, though. Yeah, yeah,

1:00:39

absolutely. Do you remember when, of course,

1:00:41

you remember when like the

1:00:44

office sort of completely blew up

1:00:47

and then there was lots of people doing that style

1:00:49

all the time. Yeah, of course, yeah. And it was

1:00:51

just direct copying. Yeah. And

1:00:53

they all said, oh, it's naturalistic. It's

1:00:55

not naturalistic at all. It's a certain

1:00:57

style of the office. Yeah, yeah. So

1:01:00

people were adopting that. Yeah. What's

1:01:02

the... Oh, yeah. Do you remember? Someone's hold

1:01:04

with this. Someone... I can't remember

1:01:07

who, but do you remember the... What's

1:01:09

it called? It was about

1:01:12

sort of late 20s people living in a

1:01:14

flat share. They all had lawyers or something

1:01:16

in a big house. This life.

1:01:18

This life. Yeah. So

1:01:21

like, I don't know if it was

1:01:23

BBC or ITV or whoever had it.

1:01:25

They were saying... BBC. BBC. Yeah.

1:01:28

So ITV and Channel 4

1:01:30

or whoever the channels were, were

1:01:32

saying, we want our version of

1:01:35

that. And everyone

1:01:38

was writing that stuff.

1:01:41

And there was a sort of plethora of like

1:01:43

bad versions of it that came out. And

1:01:45

because the audience were like, so of course you're

1:01:47

going, well, I've got that. I

1:01:50

don't want that. Yeah. Why are you doing

1:01:52

a... They didn't know they were

1:01:54

taking that because no one thinks about it as much as

1:01:57

their channels or the writers or whatever. And

1:02:00

they were like going, I've sort of

1:02:02

seen that, so I'm not interested. And I was

1:02:04

feeling really good for the copy. Yeah, exactly. But

1:02:06

like, what a weird sort of going, we need

1:02:08

our, you don't, you really

1:02:10

don't. You need to

1:02:13

be making the thing that everyone then

1:02:15

tries to copy. I remember seeing a

1:02:17

character breakdown and it was around

1:02:19

the time of the office for something, I can't

1:02:21

remember what it was. And it

1:02:23

said like, the character's name and age and all that

1:02:26

and then in brackets it went, think

1:02:28

Tim of the office. Apparently

1:02:30

there was five years of that. And there's

1:02:32

a famous one of, I can't remember,

1:02:36

the name of the actor who played Dawn. She's

1:02:38

brilliant. She was inside that, I saw the other

1:02:40

day. She was amazing. Oh, yeah. Have you seen

1:02:43

the things she's in called, is it called Better

1:02:45

Things? The American

1:02:47

things. I'm way behind

1:02:49

on that, but I've started it. It's brilliant.

1:02:51

Yeah. Pamela. Yes. Oh,

1:02:54

fucking. She's brilliant in it. Yeah, she's amazing.

1:02:56

I think she's like the best thing in it. Anyway,

1:03:00

but apparently she got

1:03:03

an audition that said, think Dawn

1:03:05

from the office. This is the myth and

1:03:08

she didn't get the part. Yeah,

1:03:10

I've heard that and I think that's

1:03:12

probably true. Well,

1:03:16

I think I've nailed Dawn from the office. Fucking

1:03:19

hell. How

1:03:22

long did it take you as a standup to

1:03:27

create that persona? Because

1:03:29

I've always thought there's something

1:03:31

very vulnerable about getting on

1:03:33

stage with the mic. So

1:03:37

did you feel that there was a bit of safety

1:03:39

in creating a character? Yeah, 100%, yeah. Yeah,

1:03:42

a million percent. So someone

1:03:44

asked me about it the other day. I

1:03:47

did this book signing thing and I was

1:03:49

like, yeah, it's exactly that. It's protection and

1:03:51

it's... Sorry, I'm asking boring questions.

1:03:53

No, no, no. It's

1:03:56

just funny, like I spoke about it with

1:03:58

this guy because he... was

1:04:02

thinking about it, about doing

1:04:04

it. And I was like, yeah,

1:04:07

it was definitely. And I also, it

1:04:09

started off a protection thing, but then

1:04:11

it also became like

1:04:14

a way that I could write, because

1:04:18

I created this sort

1:04:20

of lunatic who, my

1:04:22

friend summed it up, it was like, he said, it's

1:04:26

like doing observational comedy from the point of view

1:04:28

that there was

1:04:30

absolutely no relatability. And

1:04:33

I thought that was quite a good way of summing up. So it was a

1:04:35

way of me kind of being able

1:04:37

to kind of

1:04:40

write anything from this

1:04:42

one point of view, basically. I

1:04:44

just like having a point of

1:04:46

view that I can write

1:04:48

about anything in it. It's just, I

1:04:51

don't have to find it. It's quite

1:04:53

some sort of truth, if you know

1:04:55

what I mean? Yeah. And that's the side

1:04:58

of it. I love writing this

1:05:00

stuff more than, as I say, I'm

1:05:02

not, I don't think I'm naturally drawn

1:05:04

to performing, but I

1:05:07

really love the fact that what I've, I

1:05:09

guess I've come up with, allows me to

1:05:12

write, not easy, it's fucking odd, but

1:05:14

like, I think sometimes having

1:05:16

an angle, a character that has a

1:05:19

definite angle, you know, like the

1:05:21

completely sort of, you know, what do you call it? That's

1:05:25

what's the thing? The not

1:05:27

the false author, the unreliable

1:05:30

author kind of, that's

1:05:32

really what it is really. So this person's

1:05:35

telling you this thing wholeheartedly

1:05:38

believing that

1:05:41

he sees the world like everyone

1:05:43

else, but that's just

1:05:45

as simple as that.

1:05:47

But it was all an accident. Yeah.

1:05:49

Yeah. So. I almost feel like he's

1:05:52

been sort of dropped in

1:05:55

from another time. Yeah. And another place

1:05:57

altogether that we've never been to. Yeah.

1:06:00

Yeah, exactly. Well, he's

1:06:02

got his truth. Yes,

1:06:05

exactly. Yeah, because people

1:06:07

say, always write the truth and

1:06:09

stuff, and I agree, but the truth doesn't

1:06:12

have to be if that person's

1:06:14

truth, if you know me. Exactly.

1:06:17

Yeah, yeah. So it's like, I'm

1:06:19

still doing it, because I inhabit it quite

1:06:21

easily. I'm currently writing about this person owning

1:06:23

a snake and walking about. I

1:06:33

just saw a video of someone walking

1:06:35

around LA

1:06:38

with a snake, and I just

1:06:40

thought, this person

1:06:43

would see that as unbelievably

1:06:46

not weird. It's

1:06:49

almost inspiring. Yeah, yeah. So

1:06:52

I'm sort of writing about that. So

1:06:54

the truth of that is, it's about

1:06:56

how cool it is to walk

1:06:59

around with a big snake. It just

1:07:01

makes me laugh. We

1:07:04

all know that that's an odd thing to

1:07:06

do. So it's really easy to write. Well, if

1:07:08

he doesn't think that's an odd thing to

1:07:10

do, you've got the start of it. Hopefully, something

1:07:12

funny. And there's mileage there. Yeah, yeah. So

1:07:14

that's currently all right. So I suppose if

1:07:17

you like the writing process, then not

1:07:21

saying that it's plain sailing from there, but the

1:07:23

fact that you're reading, I was talking

1:07:26

to Reese Cheersmith

1:07:29

about writing. He

1:07:32

doesn't like writing inside number

1:07:34

nine at all. He finds it a

1:07:36

real chore. He doesn't get pleasure from

1:07:38

it. Whereas Steve Pemberton absolutely loves that

1:07:40

part of the process. Oh, that must

1:07:42

be so hard, man. To

1:07:45

me, if I've just got a write, it's like a

1:07:47

day off. It's not

1:07:50

a... Like

1:07:53

Petra, my powerful... If

1:07:58

I've worked over the weekend or whatever, she's going, let's

1:08:00

just don't do anything on Monday and I'll go

1:08:02

no no I'll just do some writing and

1:08:05

she's like good good yeah

1:08:07

because she knows it's sort of like it doesn't if

1:08:11

I'm writing with no pressure you know what I

1:08:13

mean I haven't got to finish

1:08:15

something by the end of the day or end

1:08:17

of the week or whatever yeah for me it's just

1:08:20

like it's just fun and I know I can't remember

1:08:22

who I was listening to say

1:08:24

that they can't write and stuff they like

1:08:26

performing and stuff I can't

1:08:28

get my head around that because I'm like it

1:08:32

has to it has to then exist somewhere

1:08:34

which is a shame yeah but for me

1:08:36

I'm like oh yeah just coming

1:08:38

up with nice ideas I do have a fancy

1:08:40

of writing for someone like giving

1:08:43

over the material to someone and letting

1:08:46

them kind of bring it

1:08:48

to life yeah because that's that's what

1:08:50

I've learned with like um working

1:08:53

with actors and stuff when it

1:08:55

when you meet really good actors

1:08:57

and they do that thing where you go

1:08:59

fuck I wouldn't have done it like that's

1:09:02

amazing so weird where

1:09:04

you go oh it's gone 20%

1:09:06

better 30% better

1:09:08

than we could have imagined I'll find

1:09:10

that really amazing and

1:09:13

I think yeah if we could

1:09:15

just give it someone and then they just

1:09:17

made it in there you'd be like oh

1:09:19

that would be the dream yeah I've been

1:09:21

in situations where I've been in a scene

1:09:23

with somebody and it's completely taken me

1:09:25

out of the scene because I'm just watching what

1:09:28

they're doing oh my god

1:09:30

I would never have done that you're

1:09:32

amazing yeah go on yeah I think

1:09:34

that's that's uh it's the same like

1:09:36

directors I can see why people use

1:09:40

like you know teams a lot

1:09:42

of people the same people when you

1:09:44

trust them and stuff like like if

1:09:46

working with a good director really good director and then you

1:09:48

sort of see the other thing you go oh fucking hell

1:09:50

yeah I wouldn't have done it like that that's

1:09:53

clever I just like that idea of I

1:09:56

don't think I'd ever direct because

1:09:59

I like handing over

1:10:01

now. I like it's a thing that's come

1:10:04

with age of guests as well. Collaborate, like you

1:10:06

know when people, I think it's really

1:10:08

unhealthy when people don't

1:10:10

want to collaborate because

1:10:13

no one's good enough to do it. Oh no one.

1:10:17

I think it should always be about

1:10:19

collaboration. I'm very, I don't

1:10:22

like working with directors who

1:10:25

don't want to collaborate or write or something.

1:10:27

Everybody's part, a

1:10:30

little cog in a massive machine. But

1:10:33

if you just work or work. Yeah if you

1:10:35

trust everyone, yeah then why wouldn't

1:10:38

you? I just find, and I do think like

1:10:40

there is a point when I was

1:10:42

younger where you sort of, you don't want to

1:10:44

miss it, you go I think I'm out of

1:10:46

it. You know and then I can do that

1:10:48

you know and you go you can't, you can't.

1:10:50

Like there's really good people, you just got to

1:10:52

find them. It's like when I was

1:10:54

younger and if there was even

1:10:57

a little stunt, I'll do the stunt. And

1:11:01

now I'm like, I'm kidding mate. There's

1:11:04

a highly trained stunt professional who will do that

1:11:06

and when you watch it on the telly it

1:11:08

will definitely look like me. It's not a problem.

1:11:10

And I'm not going to hurt them. I don't

1:11:12

think I've ever thought, I've not thought I've done

1:11:14

a stunt. I don't think

1:11:16

I would have ever thought, sorry throw me

1:11:18

down those stairs. Yeah, I didn't think so.

1:11:21

Fair play, fair play. That's why you're

1:11:24

in bits now. Yeah, throwing down the stairs

1:11:26

thing at each other. When

1:11:28

you took that

1:11:31

character to panel

1:11:34

shows, were you

1:11:37

given enough, because you had

1:11:39

that freedom on stage, was the

1:11:42

freedom there? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, totally.

1:11:44

Yeah, yeah. Because when

1:11:46

you look back at those it does look like it.

1:11:49

Yeah, I

1:11:51

always credit Zepitron

1:11:54

who I did Countdown

1:11:57

with. I

1:12:00

don't know, like that platform was

1:12:04

so lucky that they just basically

1:12:06

said, come on the show and have like

1:12:09

a 10 minute slot every week. And

1:12:12

they just were basically to do

1:12:15

whatever you want. And to

1:12:17

the point where they would facilitate it, apart

1:12:19

from beyond. They were like, they're

1:12:24

like the dream production company. And I think

1:12:26

what they do well, and I've worked with

1:12:28

other people who don't do it. And

1:12:30

I forget because

1:12:32

I'm like, oh, fuck, right. No,

1:12:35

they're very trusting of people

1:12:37

doing again, what we're talking about, doing their bit.

1:12:39

Yeah. And they're like, oh,

1:12:42

we know how to do our bit, but we don't know how to

1:12:44

do your bit. So you're in charge

1:12:46

of your bit and we're in charge of our

1:12:48

bit. And there's lots of crossovers. But when

1:12:51

it comes to like decisions,

1:12:53

create decisions on your bit, you're

1:12:56

in charge. And create

1:12:58

decisions on our bit, we're in charge. And

1:13:01

so they just had this sort of amazing

1:13:03

sort of, I was talking about this

1:13:05

thing where I had this thing where

1:13:08

I was a magician and I

1:13:10

was going to come out

1:13:12

of a bag, like to do like

1:13:15

a Houdini underwater. Yeah. And

1:13:18

I had this idea and I sent it to them and they were

1:13:20

like, oh, yeah, we love it. And I

1:13:24

found out that like a couple

1:13:26

of years later that they had

1:13:28

to re, because water in studios

1:13:30

is just like a massive no no.

1:13:32

Yeah. So they had to

1:13:35

rewire the whole studio. So

1:13:37

there was no wire within,

1:13:39

I don't know, 40 feet

1:13:41

of the water. Wow. And

1:13:44

they were there like days before. It

1:13:46

didn't tell me any of this. Just

1:13:49

rewired the whole thing so I

1:13:51

could do this one joke, basically.

1:13:54

And that tells you what

1:13:56

they're like to work with. Yeah, that

1:13:59

speaks with volume. I

1:14:01

don't think there's anything that they

1:14:03

didn't make

1:14:05

work in some way because there's

1:14:07

obviously some stuff they're like you

1:14:10

know that's gonna be fifty thousand

1:14:12

pounds and also what was interesting

1:14:16

is when they said

1:14:18

something couldn't quite do, I

1:14:21

completely trusted them that they weren't just

1:14:24

taking a shortcut so I would then

1:14:26

rewrite it. You know what I

1:14:28

mean? Because I knew that they would have sat

1:14:30

in a room, been on the phone

1:14:33

to everyone in the country that they

1:14:35

could speak to to try and make this

1:14:38

happen and if they come back to me

1:14:40

and say we just can't make this happen

1:14:42

it's just not possible then again go and

1:14:44

let's just trust you just go oh we'll rewrite it then.

1:14:47

Because they made so much stuff work for me

1:14:49

and I don't think I realise at

1:14:51

the time how at

1:14:53

the time you know like how lucky I was

1:14:55

in that situation just having this sort

1:14:58

of showcase thing that I could just

1:15:01

do all these stupid ideas on and I

1:15:03

was like who gets that sort of chance

1:15:05

to do it and they yeah especially working

1:15:07

with someone so so

1:15:09

diligent and open to

1:15:12

all these stupid ideas it's

1:15:14

like yes a one-off read.

1:15:16

Did you enjoy the studio

1:15:18

format as opposed to the

1:15:22

stand up like with the audience there?

1:15:25

Well there's an element in the building because

1:15:27

it's still alive it's still alive yeah but

1:15:29

like I've also learned over the years like

1:15:32

I was very and again

1:15:34

I appreciate you know looking back I was like

1:15:36

you know they must be like jeez because I

1:15:39

wanted to do it all like live

1:15:42

with no kind

1:15:44

of reset you know or like

1:15:47

like sometimes you could do like do half

1:15:49

of the set up and

1:15:51

then reposition for the set but I

1:15:53

wanted it all to

1:15:56

work in the room because

1:15:59

that was all I The are you gonna into

1:16:01

now's doubt I'd often. Are.

1:16:03

Unaware of kind of guy was just posing

1:16:06

the saying and then. But.

1:16:08

I would work round the fat now

1:16:10

has anxiety is like losing momentum and

1:16:12

stuff. but now. but now you have

1:16:14

so much experience. I know how the

1:16:17

mechanics of it all. Yeah exactly. and

1:16:19

it over and it down the i

1:16:21

just knew so of lies so. I

1:16:24

was I close the or if if

1:16:26

we pause then yeah and reset will

1:16:28

lose momentum in the so they will

1:16:30

begin working with someone for an expense.

1:16:32

Hey. That was my anxiety

1:16:35

so they made it work that we

1:16:37

didn't as does that pose but now

1:16:39

say they know them and stuff I

1:16:41

like a will they position so that

1:16:43

and of as yes on assist assist

1:16:45

my salon ascent says the stuff that

1:16:47

is saying thanks thousand and Go. Well.

1:16:50

This is how tell his maiden. They.

1:16:52

Will go well. He doesn't feel

1:16:55

comfortable. Doing. So.

1:16:57

Will. Work. Out how to do it.

1:17:00

Not he wouldn't in. I. Speak

1:17:03

volumes cause so my your that animals would

1:17:05

still nine and I was actually going into

1:17:07

our will tear This is how it works

1:17:09

had yeah yeah you need to be the

1:17:11

adopted or yeah exactly and and and I

1:17:13

guess then I wouldn't have coach with that

1:17:15

by the and it wouldn't have been as

1:17:17

good and I wouldn't have. In

1:17:20

I done sixty six even more as

1:17:22

who's done under what I've done a

1:17:24

lot while to Zeit lives have been

1:17:27

things other than ten. Eyes of Ideas

1:17:29

is hard to costa. Am. but

1:17:31

m can that supine? Yeah, they

1:17:33

they don't I guess a lot

1:17:36

more out may. As

1:17:38

well you know because I was comfortable

1:17:40

and got more comfort and I'm so

1:17:43

on and but you know that again

1:17:45

that there is fair says they're not

1:17:47

a production company that sold so that

1:17:50

so when he that made David I'm

1:17:52

looking at it as a kind of

1:17:54

own guns and say in our odds

1:17:56

are trying him as much as possible

1:17:59

National cousins. Now I'm aware. of

1:18:02

what they what they did and

1:18:04

on I am even of stress

1:18:06

oh and stuff and both hard

1:18:08

work and probably looking back I

1:18:10

was like goes to the do

1:18:12

it can for know I'm I'm

1:18:14

now very very very tasty as

1:18:16

this Have to say that so

1:18:18

changes everything from these it because

1:18:20

you know a quarter. To

1:18:24

ten minute thing every week. Not

1:18:26

as he said before. We know.

1:18:29

It. Gets off showcase. The

1:18:32

same land rally I played is very

1:18:34

weird. like. Now. Com

1:18:36

thinks is an Anon I don't mean as

1:18:38

in like a is a lot of lock

1:18:40

herself I'm just thinking is not many you

1:18:43

know the one of the things I say

1:18:45

what it reminds me of a bit of

1:18:47

is Tom Allen them that titles do this

1:18:49

spin off show on some island my be

1:18:51

a sign that for four years ago. He

1:18:55

is such a good improviser.with people

1:18:57

from Canada and the has a

1:18:59

single cell where he would just

1:19:01

took to the audience and awesome

1:19:03

bad advice Sundance how much does

1:19:05

he was sounds good as it

1:19:07

it just became this thing that

1:19:09

the summer months to the as

1:19:11

the shy and he's been dead

1:19:13

five years and and it's a

1:19:15

similar thing. Where was this. To.

1:19:18

Savoy a better luck way to showcase

1:19:20

way to day and I think having

1:19:22

changed for him because I love thought

1:19:24

this guy so sunny in the mines

1:19:27

and. Like. I think it

1:19:29

is when does yeah because he's is

1:19:31

still be lox in I just takes

1:19:33

one person to see Smooth and up

1:19:35

that's a thing and we can expand

1:19:37

on. Yeah yeah now I think he

1:19:40

cometh co hosted a job man that

1:19:42

yes just mad how. He. Get

1:19:44

you do need a Nobel Us. Going. To

1:19:46

the mass in Alaska lights I always

1:19:48

sounds like you sort of thing so

1:19:50

small they still whether that. is

1:19:53

t does he need a civil any

1:19:55

to type that's their luck as well

1:19:57

but as may need to Hello

1:20:00

Don I? Yeah totally. You've

1:20:02

been there. You mentioned before about

1:20:04

how much you love the writing

1:20:06

process. Yeah. But that's

1:20:08

your stand up or that's the segments

1:20:10

on there. What was it like heading

1:20:14

into writing a book? Was it a different

1:20:16

experience? Erm, yeah it

1:20:18

was. And tell me if you're sick of

1:20:20

talking about it. No, no, no. You've been

1:20:22

doing a lot of... No, no, not at

1:20:24

all. No, not at all. This has been

1:20:26

great fun. No, like I loved it because

1:20:29

I got to work with Henry and it was

1:20:31

like another... Because it's

1:20:33

a comic book basically. And I don't

1:20:35

know that world. And again

1:20:37

it was learning how to do that. And so it

1:20:39

was like heaven for me. And then working

1:20:42

with Henry it was just like... Oh God I've

1:20:44

not done this before. And again I felt like...

1:20:46

Oh God is this mental I'm doing this? Because

1:20:49

like you know people do their whole... They

1:20:53

work their whole lives to get to do

1:20:55

a comic book. And

1:20:58

then I'm learning on the fly. And

1:21:00

I was like oh

1:21:02

right. Like I sort of...

1:21:05

I wrote loads of stuff and then went back

1:21:07

to it all. Because by the end of sort

1:21:09

of writing loads of stuff I was like oh

1:21:11

no that's how you do it. Right. And

1:21:14

so it's sort of like... In

1:21:17

a nutshell I think the way I think of it is...

1:21:21

The less I write in

1:21:24

the... The less I can write

1:21:26

in the story that needs to be written... The

1:21:28

better it is if that makes sense. Because

1:21:31

if the visuals doing most of the

1:21:33

work... Then that's

1:21:35

a better way to represent

1:21:37

the story. So I learned

1:21:39

that very quickly. I was like... If

1:21:42

it can be drawn... If you

1:21:44

can see it rather than read it... Then

1:21:47

that's a better way of telling the story. I

1:21:49

learned through lots of mistakes and

1:21:51

stuff. And again I just love it because I was

1:21:53

like... Oh I think that's how you do it. And

1:21:57

then for me I just like having...

1:24:00

Henry can really do because he

1:24:02

just had a lovely sort of

1:24:04

year of just receiving his

1:24:07

artwork and just go Jesus

1:24:11

well it's really good

1:24:13

I'm not gonna I'm gonna add nothing

1:24:15

to this why am I here you

1:24:19

don't need me do you?

1:24:22

Joe it's episodes like

1:24:24

this that make me a bit sad that end

1:24:26

in the podcast because this has been absolutely lovely

1:24:28

thank you for having really loved it yes I

1:24:30

love chatting and I'll take you to invite me

1:24:32

to a beautiful home thank you for coming pleasure

1:24:39

and another episode is done

1:24:42

as you can hear I'm not on

1:24:45

the beach anymore I'm

1:24:47

sat in one of a room just looking at the

1:24:49

Christmas tree quite nice I

1:24:52

didn't decorate it that's

1:24:55

not my skill set and this

1:24:57

is the first time in six years that

1:24:59

this has happened producer Griff message me

1:25:01

and he went I've got

1:25:03

no uh outro for for

1:25:06

Joe Wilkinson I'd

1:25:09

forgotten to record it I think

1:25:11

I blathered so

1:25:13

much on the beach um

1:25:17

and it was dark and

1:25:20

I simply

1:25:23

forgot to record the other so I'm

1:25:25

recording it now from my slightly echoey

1:25:28

living room it's not it's not as nice as

1:25:30

it maybe I'll go down

1:25:32

to the beach for the for the very

1:25:35

the very last ever intro

1:25:38

and outro which is

1:25:40

coming soon um

1:25:43

I'm really pleased uh

1:25:46

that Joe came on it was fantastic I'm right

1:25:48

okay I'm right of what I said at the

1:25:50

end of that could have been one of

1:25:54

of the top fives over

1:25:57

the years and that's a lot to say considering the

1:25:59

amount of people we have had

1:26:01

my god if

1:26:04

we were still recording the podcast I would

1:26:06

say that me and Joe will be speaking

1:26:09

to you on Christmas Day when we jump

1:26:11

in the sea but

1:26:14

I think by then guys

1:26:16

I think I'm gonna be done

1:26:20

so there

1:26:22

are two

1:26:24

more episodes coming

1:26:26

as you heard it's

1:26:28

been impossible to fill

1:26:30

that gap because

1:26:32

of the time of year and I

1:26:34

understand inevitably it's always

1:26:37

about time and where people

1:26:39

but fear not a cracking

1:26:41

penultimate coming up for you

1:26:43

very very soon and then

1:26:47

it's the special the

1:26:49

final ever two-shot

1:26:53

podcast six years really

1:26:56

hope you like it until

1:26:58

then I'm in great Parkinson

1:27:01

he's been producer griff and

1:27:03

this has been