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0:28

Hello. I'm Craig

0:30

Parkinson, and this is the two

0:32

shot podcast. I'll be going on

0:34

and let's dive in.

0:53

How did I ever lie?

0:55

If my voice is

0:59

deeper and lower than

1:01

normal. It's because let me have a look

1:04

at the time of my phone here. It's

1:08

exactly twenty five

1:10

past the hour of

1:14

the midnight. I've

1:17

just got back from work,

1:20

which is one of the reasons why

1:23

you know, I haven't been able to record

1:27

regular episodes, but

1:30

it's gonna get

1:32

easier

1:33

to do that in

1:36

the coming weeks, which is good news in it.

1:38

It's good news. And

1:42

the other big good news is we've got a new episode

1:44

this week. And I was

1:46

able to

1:47

do two things. I

1:50

came back. I'm I'm recording

1:53

this from that's

1:55

the most weekly. Hey

1:56

there. It's squeaky trainers. I'm

1:59

in Brian. At

2:01

the moment, finishing off the

2:03

last block of films that we've been here for another

2:07

six weeks or so,

2:10

but I was lucky enough to

2:12

go and catch the standard gradient,

2:15

the brilliant standard gradient

2:17

neck helm on

2:20

Sunday night.

2:23

And we were gonna record this

2:25

prior to me seeing the

2:27

show, which

2:30

is called what have we become

2:32

on tour right now. You should definitely

2:35

go and catch it.

2:37

It's it's brilliant. It's a good

2:39

good night out.

2:41

And I was coming

2:44

back from Manchester on

2:46

a Sunday

2:48

gave myself a lot of time. And,

2:51

you know, there was a rail

2:54

strike. the

2:56

day before, which I'm totally full,

2:58

you know, give people what they

3:01

need, but it

3:03

did mess things up.

3:04

the day after and

3:07

it it basically didn't give myself

3:09

a Nick enough time prior

3:12

to him. jumping

3:14

on stage in Brian. So

3:17

I said, you know what? Let's leave it.

3:20

And let's try and catch

3:22

up. this week because I

3:24

wanted to try and record

3:27

on the back of me seeing the

3:29

show as soon as possible because he's

3:32

got a heavy touring schedule. I'm

3:35

busy filming, and

3:37

I need to get back recording podcast

3:40

because you know how much I really

3:42

love it. And yeah,

3:45

it's it was one of those. Anyway, we

3:48

sorted it. And

3:51

I spoke to Nick this morning

3:53

from his hotel room and from

3:56

me here in brighten

4:00

prior to my seaside

4:03

walk along the beach.

4:07

I try and do it every morning. It's

4:09

incredible. I do love it. And

4:14

Yeah. It's it's

4:16

a brilliant conversation. I'm so

4:18

shocked that he came on. I

4:20

don't know if you know

4:23

Nick.

4:24

you'll know him. I

4:26

just stand up. I

4:28

first came across Nick on

4:32

it wasn't. it

4:34

wasn't live at the Apollo. It was

4:36

something that I don't remember what it was,

4:38

but he

4:41

was unapologetic.

4:43

when he came out on stage and

4:48

it was don't want to say

4:51

it was aggressive, but it was certainly

4:55

ah

4:59

look, he he

5:01

wasn't back with you coming forwards, and

5:03

he started off the routine that I saw.

5:07

which I'm sure you may have seen asking

5:09

a certain member of the audience if

5:12

they liked jokes.

5:14

and he kept on asking

5:17

if they liked jokes

5:20

again

5:21

and again and again and

5:23

again and again.

5:26

the

5:28

But the on stage nicom

5:31

comb

5:32

and what you're about to hear the off

5:35

stage

5:35

in the account.

5:37

You know,

5:39

they're two very different

5:41

people. And

5:45

he also starred in

5:47

three series of what

5:50

I think is can be can be can be can be

5:52

can be can be can be classes? I

5:54

think a cult sitcom now.

5:57

It's called Uncle. It's

5:59

with Nick,

6:00

the brilliant Daisy Hengard.

6:04

And it's ten years ago.

6:07

No. i'm

6:11

I think, look, if it's not

6:13

on BBC I play, it's definitely

6:16

on BritBox. If

6:18

you haven't seen it, I hardly

6:21

recommend it. It is passionate,

6:26

funny,

6:28

angry.

6:29

It's great. It's really,

6:32

really good set come, but yet Nick's

6:34

show. on toward

6:36

them and what have we become do?

6:38

Do go and say it.

6:40

He'll be coming to a town near you or if

6:42

you've missed it then, you know, can't you help?

6:45

jump in the car, go somewhere else.

6:47

But this episode

6:49

with Nick, myself and Nick have

6:51

met before

6:54

oh, I believe very briefly. We

6:56

certainly hadn't sat down for

6:58

an hour. remotely. You

7:00

know, it's always a bit difficult when it's remote.

7:04

But this

7:06

wasn't difficult. at all. I want

7:08

to do it in person, but I

7:10

didn't think we'd lost anything by doing

7:12

it

7:13

in this remote

7:15

fashion. He

7:18

is extremely

7:20

honest, very

7:22

very open.

7:25

and

7:26

takes the reins with the

7:31

questions that

7:35

get thrown out there and

7:40

look, what I'm gonna say is it does

7:43

go quite deep with

7:44

regards to

7:48

mental health struggles and

7:51

suicidal thoughts, antidepressants,

7:55

medication. It's not It's

7:58

not bleak. It's not bleak chap at

7:59

all, but there's a certain

8:02

portion

8:04

about two thirds in that

8:07

we feel

8:09

we need to have a chat about that and discuss

8:12

it and Nick's

8:14

more than happy to do that.

8:17

I hopefully,

8:19

I was I handled it in a sensitive

8:22

way with certain things

8:24

we didn't talk about. I didn't think

8:26

we needed to to discuss. But

8:28

also, we talk about the mechanics of

8:31

being a stand up. When

8:34

stand up is taken away from you, as it

8:36

has been for many central comedians.

8:39

how he builds a show, what

8:42

he loves

8:44

about being a

8:46

standard comedian. all sorts.

8:49

It's a it's a brilliant lesson. It's a

8:51

brilliant lesson, and I was so happy

8:54

that he came on. And after

8:57

what we had like a three week

8:59

break. It's

9:02

a cracker to come back to.

9:04

So I'm

9:06

gonna have a little

9:09

drink of

9:11

my water and I'm

9:14

gonna pack up because

9:17

I've got a few days off.

9:19

Brilliant. I

9:22

am gonna get some more

9:24

episodes booked in as soon as I can.

9:26

And you know what? It'll

9:28

be we'll be back doing regular

9:31

Thursday episodes very,

9:33

very soon. But until then, please.

9:37

Put your headphones on. Slow

9:40

down on that treadmill. Enjoy the

9:42

commute, whatever

9:43

you're doing. and

9:45

enjoy this is

9:47

the

9:47

two shot podcast with

9:49

the brilliant mister

9:51

Nick helm and

9:53

joy. We'll see you at

9:55

the end.

9:59

Nick,

10:02

morning. How are you? I'm very well.

10:04

Thank you. How are you? I'm

10:06

good. I'm alright. But I'm not a touring

10:09

comedian. I'm a job in which means I'm

10:11

not working till I pass through this afternoon,

10:13

but how how is the

10:15

tour going? It's

10:16

great. Yeah. It's

10:18

sort of started I

10:20

wasn't sure what it was gonna be like when it

10:22

started, you know, in what

10:25

way. Well, I wasn't

10:27

sure what the audiences would be

10:29

like. because this is this is first time I've sort of,

10:31

like, gone out and about since the pandemic.

10:33

I did Edinborough.

10:35

It was really lovely. I did a

10:37

one hour show in Edinborough. with this, I

10:39

had to, you know no.

10:41

I had to in actual fact, I've had a family

10:44

hour, but

10:45

more difficult to work out what to take

10:47

out because a new knew

10:49

I was gonna go on tour. So I

10:51

it had to be like a ninety minute show with an

10:53

interval in the middle. So

10:56

So Edward was an hour. And then when I

10:58

started the tour, I was just like, well, how does the new

11:00

material fit back in? But,

11:02

yeah, it's been lovely. It's been fantastic. People have

11:05

been really nice and I like

11:07

meeting audiences afterwards. And,

11:09

yeah,

11:09

the whole thing's been brilliant, really. Yeah.

11:12

When I was I was looking up to see him

11:14

brighten on Sunday night and it was a really

11:16

good crowd and they were really

11:18

going for it because you don't you don't really

11:20

pull any punches.

11:21

It was a weird audience though,

11:24

wasn't it on a Sunday. It was a Sunday night

11:26

audience in Brighton, but they would

11:28

like a Friday night audience holiday.

11:30

They would like very sort of

11:32

I wouldn't say I don't I

11:34

don't think of it as heckling. I think

11:36

people were just trying to sort of like join in because they

11:38

weren't trying to disrupt the show. They were just sort

11:41

of trying to participate. Yeah.

11:44

I've never seen anything like that on a Friday night,

11:46

really. On a Sunday night, on a Sunday a

11:48

Sunday night. It was yeah.

11:50

But it was fun. It was a fun

11:52

one, but they're not all like that. Some

11:54

of them are more like theater shows,

11:56

and then some of them are more like

11:59

Well, I guess that was

11:59

the only one that's been exactly like

12:02

that. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

12:04

It was fun. It was a fun one.

12:05

can you can you tell as

12:07

a comedian what an audience

12:10

are gonna be like within the sort

12:12

of first to ten minutes

12:14

or whether you're gonna have to work

12:16

much harder to get them on-site or not.

12:18

Because the thing is it's not

12:20

like your

12:21

supporting or, you

12:24

know, they're taking a pond. They've bought

12:26

tickets to come and see. So you would

12:28

already think that they would be fans

12:30

of of your work anyway? It

12:32

tend yeah. I mean, a tour

12:34

show tends to be people earning there because

12:36

they wanna be there. And when

12:39

you're on a like when you're on a mixed bill, that's

12:42

that's I find I

12:44

find mixed bills

12:46

really stress all. Like on a like, as

12:48

as a as a job in club comedian

12:51

going on stage when

12:53

the audience have already really

12:55

enjoyed three other comedians. And then you've got a go on

12:57

and kind of like, and you're and you're in

12:59

you're in the green room going, nothing like any of

13:01

them, guys. And

13:03

then you've got to go on and match that. That's

13:06

I find that I find that stressful. Not

13:09

that you know,

13:10

not that I can't do that, but I I

13:12

just find the whole build up to that

13:15

quite stressful. But

13:17

when you're on tour, I kind of just

13:19

remind myself that they're there to see me and I wanna

13:21

go out.

13:22

If if they do have, you know, if

13:24

anyone Anyone

13:25

does have, like, a a problem. It's kind

13:27

of, like, it's up to them to leave really, I

13:30

think. Yeah. because because literally, everyone

13:32

else is there for Last night, I came

13:34

on stage. I was in Birmingham, and I

13:36

came on stage, and there was a guy

13:38

with his phone on his knee. and

13:40

it was all lit up, you know. And

13:42

the very first thing that happened when I came out on

13:44

stage, he had his phone, and he put his phone down, but

13:46

he didn't switch off. And

13:49

I was just like, what's going on here? And he was bidding

13:51

on a rucksack on eBay

13:53

and fucking

13:55

hell. And he had, like, twelve minutes left

13:57

on the on the thing. And and and

13:59

and

13:59

at

14:00

first,

14:01

you're kinda like, oh my, what's

14:04

what's why

14:06

are you there? But then

14:09

he became lucky writing jokes throughout the

14:11

night, and it was just a really really fun

14:13

one in the end. And I started to show differently

14:15

from how I normally do because of

14:17

this guy. and then it just made the whole show a lot

14:19

looser, and it was it

14:21

was fine. So I think that

14:23

if ninety nine percent of the audience

14:25

are on-site, it's always gonna be some people that are dragged

14:27

along by their friends or -- Mhmm. -- and partners

14:29

and stuff. But as long as ninety nine percent of the

14:31

audience run side, I think you can kind of

14:33

win people You

14:34

see, that's the difference as a

14:36

as a as a comedian. Now as an

14:38

actor, if you're doing a piece of theater

14:40

and someone's tax in and it just pings

14:43

and lights up. You can't exactly stop

14:45

the play and go, can you get off your

14:47

fucking phone and pay attention?

14:49

It can it can that that can be really

14:51

distracting and no matter how many

14:53

times I go to the theater people

14:55

put their phone on silent or sometimes

14:58

not or let it let it ring and sometimes

15:00

answer it. And there's nothing you

15:02

can do there. Even if I

15:03

sat there as an audience member, all with

15:05

you on stage. Yeah. You do

15:07

have quite a lot

15:10

of freedom as a comedian to

15:12

do that. But on the flip

15:14

side, when you're in a play

15:16

and you're in theater, there's more

15:19

than nuance stage. So it's not so much of a

15:21

personal insult. It's kind

15:23

of like they've been selling all of you in a

15:25

way. When there's one guy that just won't

15:27

switch his phone out and you're gonna, I've traveled

15:29

to Birmingham for this and

15:31

he's just any any any he

15:33

gives so little of a shit about it that he

15:35

can't even be bothered to switch his phone

15:37

off. It's not even it was not even switching

15:39

his phone off quick. It was it

15:41

was not just so, like,

15:43

making the screen go dark. It was just

15:46

like, wow. So, yeah,

15:48

it's more of a personal insight. But

15:50

but then you have, like, the ability to kind of

15:52

deal with it as and when. So I

15:54

don't know, this good down pat isn't

15:56

there? Yeah. No. Of course.

15:58

Wouldn't it? for you. Let's go

15:59

back to what came first for you

16:02

because was it was it music

16:04

or was it comedy or was it

16:06

acting? Because at the

16:08

moment, I know because you've done all you do

16:10

what you do all three.

16:12

Yeah. To to various

16:14

degrees, of ability and success. But yeah.

16:17

I well, when I

16:19

was when I was young, I was

16:21

very, like, like creative

16:23

in general. And

16:25

I guess I've I guess I never really

16:28

picked one, and then I still

16:30

haven't really. And

16:32

that's that's good in some ways because, you know,

16:34

I'll do a tour. And then when I

16:36

finish this tour, I've got an album coming

16:38

out and and depending on

16:40

when this is out, it'll be out already.

16:42

It's coming out Halloween. And

16:44

then – and so

16:46

I might concentrate on some music I

16:48

might concentrate on actually just writing and trying

16:50

to get, you know, my screen play finished and

16:53

all of this stuff. But

16:56

I guess, what I

16:58

started out doing was I started out I

17:00

wanted to act and I

17:01

wanted to sing. And I

17:04

always write songs when I was,

17:06

you know, a sixth

17:08

former and at school when I started, like,

17:10

learning guitar and stuff. And I used

17:12

to write songs to help me

17:14

do that. And then

17:16

when

17:16

I started, so

17:19

then I went up to Edemar when I was twenty

17:21

and I wrote my first show when I was twenty

17:24

and

17:25

And I really started writing because I was so

17:28

shareauditions. And I

17:31

was just like, I'd never got any

17:33

parts. and

17:35

I got so nervous and overwhelmed

17:37

by it that I just started writing stuff for

17:39

myself to perform and then and

17:43

then I and I'd I'd like to direct theater and write

17:45

theater. And then

17:47

that became, like, very, sort of, like,

17:49

difficult to it's like, theater.

17:51

It's like when

17:53

you're

17:53

like doing independent theater, that's like being

17:55

in a band where you're kind of like convincing five

17:57

other people that your idea is

17:59

worth

17:59

pursuing. Mhmm. And and

18:03

then I got to a point what the

18:05

story is that I'd I'd

18:07

spent about

18:08

seven or eight years writing a play.

18:10

I took it up to

18:12

Edinburgh. Due to

18:13

a printing error, we've got a one star review. And

18:19

then from

18:21

the Scotsman and the Scotsman phoned up the

18:23

theater and they said, oh, it's been a printing area. You've

18:25

got a one star review, but it was actually meant to

18:27

be a two star review. And

18:30

I think if it had been a two star review,

18:32

people would have just ignored it, but because it was

18:34

one star, people came to watch this car crash.

18:36

And -- Right. and

18:40

it went awry. But at the end of that, I was just

18:42

like, if you can spend seven years writing

18:44

something and in in three

18:46

seconds, she can accidentally

18:50

give it a one star

18:52

if you then then I

18:55

then I see what stand up comedy is like. And it was

18:57

always one of those things that I wanted to

18:59

try. So when I started to stand

19:01

up comedy, That

19:02

sort of, like, scratched that edge

19:05

of kind of, like, writing and

19:07

directing and performing and all of that.

19:09

And then when I had to do twenty minutes, I

19:11

only had fifteen minutes I added a song into it

19:13

and then that that popped up and then

19:15

everyone liked the song more than all the stand

19:17

up. And then, you know, and

19:19

then I became kind of like a

19:21

standard comedian that did

19:23

music. And then in two thousand

19:24

eleven, Henry Normal came to see

19:26

me in Edinburgh. And after that, he put me

19:28

in uncle, and then No.

19:30

I'm an actor. Do

19:33

you think years ago,

19:35

from not from the outset, it always seemed

19:37

to me to

19:39

be the standups, and I'm going back a fair

19:40

few years, would go to Edinburgh,

19:43

and their goal

19:44

was to be seen like

19:47

you know, by people like Henry

19:49

Orton Channel four execs. So then

19:51

they could get their own

19:53

sitcom. And I'm not saying for everybody, but it

19:55

seemed to be quite popular at that

19:57

time. I think that's

19:59

definitely it worked.

20:00

It's changed so much in the last ten years,

20:02

and I'd say the ten years before

20:04

that. I think stuff like live at the

20:06

product changed, the possibilities

20:10

of what you

20:11

could do with a career

20:13

in standard comedy. you'd go

20:16

from being kind of like a working job in comedian

20:18

to being a household name overnight.

20:21

And in the early two thousands, you could sell

20:23

out a tour just by one performance on

20:25

– or so we've been led to

20:27

believe, you could sell out a tool from one

20:29

performance on lower than

20:31

Yiponno. But there

20:33

were only like five comedians, you

20:35

know, in the country. And then when it became

20:37

kind of like a

20:39

legitimate way of becoming a

20:42

superstar, then people

20:44

became a lot more inter you know, there's

20:46

there's degrees. There's university

20:49

degrees. can do in stand pay loads of money to

20:51

spend three years. I don't know what the

20:53

course is. I don't know I don't know what you'd I

20:55

don't know what

20:55

you'd learned on Standup

20:58

comedy degree really, unless you're

21:00

learning about the history of standup, which

21:02

which I guess I would find really

21:04

interesting. But Yeah.

21:06

IIII think that there's nothing you

21:08

can't really beat just getting out there and doing it

21:10

and dying on your last night, after night until

21:12

you get good, you know.

21:15

And

21:15

did you're

21:16

in the early days when you

21:18

were outperformance stand up?

21:21

Did you

21:23

did you know that what the goal was as

21:25

in terms of I was gonna be

21:27

me or I was gonna be a version of me

21:29

or I was gonna be a sort of

21:31

slightly more grotesque character or because

21:33

I don't ever think that any

21:35

stand ups are a

21:38

hundred percent themselves. I always feel their

21:40

their aversion. It's like

21:42

a persona. Like yeah.

21:44

It's a persona that you kind of like it

21:46

it's not like I've got to get in character.

21:48

It's sort of like a switch that you flip and

21:51

then, you know, when

21:53

I'm off stage and one thing and then as soon as I go

21:55

on stage and another thing, but

21:58

I've had to be because of my

22:00

because my

22:00

act is so kind of

22:04

know,

22:05

not aggressive, but my

22:07

my my act is is so extreme

22:10

in terms of personality wise

22:12

to me. I've always had to be

22:14

very careful about who I am on stage and

22:17

who I am off stage. So I'm always

22:19

very sort of like polite

22:21

people and mild matter people

22:23

and and to let people know that this is different

22:25

from what's on stage and

22:31

What's

22:31

the question? I

22:34

suppose in the early days,

22:36

did that come fully

22:38

formed to you that you were gonna

22:40

be this I

22:41

I mean, you said it there. I

22:44

mean, it's not an aggressive

22:46

persona, but is remember in

22:48

the early days when I first started, I thought fucking

22:50

hell this guy is he's certainly not backwards or

22:52

coming forwards. Oh. Did

22:54

that did that come to you quite quickly? Or

22:56

was it was it a it a bit fall on your ass and

22:58

failing? I guess, like,

22:59

through theater, when I wrote

23:01

theater, I used to write about emotions and

23:05

depression and stuff like that. And

23:07

and so I sort of had an idea

23:09

of what I was on stage before I started

23:11

to stand up. Mhmm. But

23:13

when I first started to stand up, I sort

23:16

of wanted everyone to like me, so I'd go

23:18

on and I'd be all like, hello, who are you

23:20

all doing? Oh, isn't it in

23:22

wonderful guys, and and

23:25

it was sort of like it

23:27

was alright. But

23:29

I'd written quite a lot of material and I

23:31

just basically realized that I didn't know

23:33

how to perform it. So

23:37

So I I took a year, I think, about two thousand and eight, two

23:39

thousand and nine. I stopped writing stand up, and

23:41

I just was like, I've got loads of

23:44

stand up. how to perform it. And I just

23:46

worked on how to perform it. And

23:48

I think, kind of, like, I'd

23:50

had, you know, a

23:51

couple of

23:53

specific gigs in my

23:56

mind where the audience

23:58

were kind of

23:59

apathetic and there was ten acts

24:02

on. Well, I'll tell you what. When

24:04

I

24:04

first started, there'd be kind of like you

24:06

do like a laugh and horse gig in Central

24:08

London. And I lived in Saint Albert's with my parents,

24:10

so I traveled in to London. It'd be

24:12

a Sunday night, and it'd be rainy and cold and

24:15

miserable. And you'd go to this pub and there'd be

24:17

three audience members and

24:19

ten comedians. and

24:21

every comedian wanted to be stooply

24:23

and they don't go on and do it

24:25

stooply and because that's so

24:27

low energy.

24:30

Yeah. The night would kind of, like, really struggle. And

24:32

so I would always sort of, like, take it upon

24:34

myself to, like, bring the energy in the room and I'd

24:36

go out and I'd do it and everyone would be like, oh, that was

24:39

really great. and he'd be like, yeah, but

24:41

it's not what I wanna be stewardly too

24:43

too. And

24:45

so it was kind of like So

24:47

I kind of got a name

24:50

for myself or a guest by just being

24:52

kind of like a person to put energy in

24:54

the room. And

24:56

then and then later on when I kind

24:58

of like could was doing

25:00

alright, I could kind of like take a

25:02

step back and think about who I actually wanted to be on

25:05

stage. And and then I

25:07

could kinda like put it put it together

25:09

that way my my goal as a

25:11

comedian on stage is I've never

25:13

tried to be cool and

25:15

I'm not trying then

25:18

I'm

25:18

not trying to be likable.

25:22

And and in the

25:24

past that it's been kind of like a bit more

25:26

of a character a caricature a

25:28

caricature or a character like

25:30

yeah. Even like even like

25:32

six years ago, I think I I kind of like

25:34

it would be it'd be

25:36

like this heightened, huge performer. And

25:39

then over the last few years, this this is

25:41

like the third this is the third

25:43

tour show. The third show that I've done on

25:45

a row. that's been sort of

25:47

like talking about me

25:50

on a personal level. Mhmm.

25:52

Whereas before, it'd be kind of

25:55

like like general stand up, you

25:57

know. Where

25:59

where where you're talking about general

26:01

things and themes like dreams

26:04

and war and and

26:06

I did a show about evil and evil

26:08

and that was maybe a little bit more personal, but

26:10

now I'm just kind of like

26:13

let lay bare and stuff. And

26:17

and

26:17

that's kind of like being guided by

26:19

my audience as well. I have a really good relationship

26:21

with my audience. And I

26:24

would talk about depression

26:26

in the past, and people would

26:28

ask me about it. And

26:32

and then I would talk to them about it. And then

26:34

I found that my audience has found it

26:36

really comforting or useful for me to

26:38

talk about that on stage. And

26:40

then when I did live at the Apollo, I talked a

26:43

bit about depression and people

26:45

took it out of context and they

26:47

got not not loads of people. It was

26:49

probably about three people. But

26:51

I but it it it stuck with

26:53

me, and I was just like, right. So the

26:55

last three shows I've done, I've tried to sort of,

26:57

like, put my lay my

27:00

table out and just be sort of like,

27:02

this is

27:02

where I stand on mental health and

27:05

depression. and

27:07

I'm writing comedy about it, but I'm not making

27:09

fun of it. And,

27:11

you know, one of them, you know,

27:14

my first goal is to make people laugh

27:16

and to have a nice night out and to enjoy

27:18

themselves. I don't feel like the

27:20

best way to do that is just

27:22

tell everyone that everything's alright. And

27:26

so I sort of like try and take people

27:28

through kind of like an emotional journey

27:30

where you kind of like you bring them down and then you bring them

27:32

up again. It's very important

27:34

to do that last bit. And then

27:36

and then I really

27:39

sort of I

27:41

I found I found that the more honest I was

27:43

about myself that the more people

27:46

related to it. And and so first

27:48

and foremost, I want to be funny, And then

27:50

secondly, I want

27:53

people to find some sort of comfort in it and

27:55

I want to

27:57

start conversations on the way home. You know?

27:59

So if people come and see me and I talk about

28:01

depression and I talk about antidepressants and I talk

28:03

about whatever experience I've

28:05

been through, then opens up

28:07

conversations for people on the way home to start

28:09

give some like a helping hand to start conversations

28:11

on the way back. You know, I mean, we you

28:13

were an uncle. uncle

28:16

basically does that as a sitcom. It's

28:18

kind of like I didn't write it,

28:20

but one of the reasons I wanted to do

28:22

it was that it

28:25

was about stuff that meant a lot to

28:27

me. And

28:29

and

28:29

and I'd get people coming up to me all

28:31

the time saying that, you know, they watched uncle and

28:33

it helped him through a really difficult pot

28:35

part of their life. And it's that

28:38

for me is the most fulfilling thing

28:40

about doing what I've you know, my body

28:42

of work so far. That is the most

28:45

fulfilling thing. about is the fact that it's

28:47

really helped people. And

28:49

it's

28:49

funny, you know. And I think that's

28:52

– if I've got one job,

28:54

then that's it. it's just sort of

28:56

like, I don't

28:58

know, make people make people laugh but

29:00

also kind of like help people

29:02

a little bit. But you do.

29:03

And I think the why

29:06

people connect with because

29:07

I

29:07

don't wanna give it away because I want people to

29:10

go and do wanna see you on tour even though

29:12

that's not what we do on this podcast, but I do

29:14

want people to go and see it because it's a fucking

29:16

fantastic show. But what you

29:18

do too which I think is lovely and it's

29:20

delicate is you don't preach.

29:22

It's

29:22

not preachy because you because it's

29:25

because of the certain moment towards the end of

29:27

of this show where you

29:29

do talk openly

29:31

and and quite personally about

29:33

some subjects and you bring it

29:35

you bring it quite down and it's

29:37

and it's a lovely personal moment that people

29:39

can emotionally connect with, and it isn't

29:42

preachy. I find sometimes

29:44

because, you know, you touched on on call there and

29:47

there were certain topics in that show

29:49

going back a fair few years before

29:51

it was don't wanna poo poo when

29:53

I say this before it was fashionable

29:55

to be talking so openly

29:57

and honestly about mental health.

30:00

Yeah. I

30:00

think people would look back on Ankorn and realize

30:02

that it was ahead of its time. It was

30:04

-- Mhmm. -- it it it did it

30:06

did lots of things that

30:08

are very, very popular now. You know,

30:11

it's getting on for ten years ago

30:14

now. Yeah.

30:16

III

30:16

but I would also say that

30:18

with the live performance stuff, that is trial and

30:20

error. I think part of my

30:22

last show,

30:22

my last show is called Phoenix from

30:25

the flames. and I felt

30:27

like I hadn't

30:29

quite grasped how I wanted

30:31

to get the message crossed. So when

30:33

the pandemic came and had to cancel that tour, I

30:36

was actually sort of relieved because I felt

30:38

like I felt

30:40

like I don't think it was

30:42

a hundred percent preachy, but I

30:44

do feel like for me, on

30:46

a personal level, it it was

30:49

just on – it was just bordering

30:51

on the wrong side of

30:53

that,

30:53

where I don't have

30:55

all the answers. and and it would be

30:58

disingenuous and needs to go on. It would be it would be

31:00

ridiculous. If if I went on stage and

31:02

said, I've got all the answers guys follow

31:04

me. But but

31:06

all you can do is, like, set an

31:09

example of being kind of like,

31:11

I'm just gonna be open

31:14

about my

31:14

problems. And I'm not gonna I'm not gonna hide you.

31:16

I'm gonna know I'm saying that this should be kind of

31:18

like everyone's daily life is to walk

31:20

around like an open wound. But

31:23

for the for the hour and a half, I'm on stage,

31:26

you know, I'm kind of

31:28

like demonstrating can

31:30

come on stage and you can do that and people

31:32

can still kind of like find

31:34

you funny and like about all these other

31:36

things and and I

31:38

don't know. It's just kind of like, go on stage. And

31:40

if I say it out loud, then maybe it'll help them

31:43

say it out loud. But

31:45

but that that's that's where I feel

31:48

like

31:50

comfortable, you know, whereas

31:53

whereas in my last show, I felt like

31:55

it was just erin on the side of preachy.

31:58

Like, I've solved it. I used to

32:00

be depressed. And now I'm not.

32:02

Mhmm. And

32:02

I've fixed myself. although

32:06

although I probably need to rewatch that show

32:08

because I don't really think that that was the that

32:10

would never have been that that wasn't the message.

32:13

But But I feel like it was it

32:15

was a step closer to being kind of like, hey,

32:17

I'm all saw it now. And

32:20

And one of the things that I learned

32:22

or I kind of came to terms with

32:25

in lockdown

32:26

was that that I think that

32:29

my mental health issues and and and and and

32:31

all that stuff. That's not something that

32:33

I can that I

32:36

necessarily I'm gonna fix that I'm necessarily gonna

32:38

solve, but but that was

32:40

actually quite freeing

32:42

the because then

32:43

then it came down to, if you're gonna

32:45

be with this thing for your whole life,

32:47

then how are you gonna cope

32:49

with it? And then it became

32:52

about working

32:53

out how to cope with with these

32:55

issues. And then that that was actually

32:58

rather than being, like, a

33:00

negative, like, oh, I'm stuck with this

33:02

thing. it was more like, okay, great. Well,

33:04

we ran it together. Me and

33:06

my brain. So how are we gonna get

33:08

through it altogether? And

33:11

and and I found that kind of comforting in a

33:13

way. And and I suppose

33:14

free in as well to know and

33:16

it's it's a bit like you what you talk about in the show

33:18

towards the end is it, you

33:20

know, it is trial and error. Like, medication is

33:22

trial and error. Maybe this this

33:25

this path is not for you, but but

33:27

this road is confident and could

33:29

help you in some way. Yeah.

33:31

Well, when when

33:33

when when did you first

33:35

realize? Because you know, we

33:37

all get down and we all suffer from anxiety

33:39

sort of now more than ever. But, you

33:42

know, depression of,

33:44

you know, rears it so quickly had in various

33:46

different ways. But when did you realize that

33:48

it that it was depression? And it wasn't

33:50

just some sort of mood

33:53

or small part of anxiety?

33:56

Well,

33:57

again, it's that it's that

33:59

it's that it's

33:59

ever evolving thing. where

34:03

it's it's it's difficult, isn't it? because

34:06

like, I think

34:09

I was

34:09

talking to I was talking to a

34:11

friend maybe maybe a year ago,

34:14

maybe a year and a half ago, but

34:16

not but not very

34:18

long ago. and she was talking about

34:20

anxiety. And and I

34:21

was just like, well, what's that then? And then she

34:24

sort of described what anxiety was. And I

34:26

was like,

34:28

I've that. And and I think kind of

34:29

like for a long time, I lumped

34:32

everything into this one

34:34

category, which

34:36

was depression. And and then there's bits of

34:38

OCD mixed in with that. And

34:40

and and that kind

34:42

of, like, opened up this whole

34:44

kind of

34:47

avenue to sort

34:49

of like explore where where is

34:51

it like, oh, hang on

34:54

a minute. these all of these

34:56

I'm sort of like dealing with all these conflicting

35:00

feelings and and it's like a

35:02

whirlwind in my head sometimes.

35:04

And and actually, it's quite

35:06

good to sort of like separate things out and go kind

35:08

of like, well, that's you just sort of like with your OCD running

35:10

things round and round and round and your head.

35:12

And then that's kind of your your

35:14

anxiety because you're sort of like,

35:18

you

35:18

can't leave you flat. And

35:22

so I don't think I've got to the end of

35:23

the journey, and I don't think that's what I'm sort

35:25

of like saying.

35:28

I think I think what I'm saying in the show

35:30

is that I'm

35:30

sort of like Arnold Journey and

35:33

I'm sort of exploring

35:36

it. and these are the things

35:38

that personally have helped

35:39

me. I don't say, do

35:42

what I

35:44

do. I sort of like just say that of this what been through.

35:46

And if you can

35:48

take anything good from

35:50

that, then then take

35:54

it. But But and and also, you're find

35:55

you're finding your tools

35:58

to help you along with the

35:59

journey. Yeah. And

36:02

and and chemically, everyone's

36:04

made up differently. You know, the

36:06

first drugs that I was put on was searching. And

36:08

that really that was that

36:10

was that that really caught me

36:13

up for for, you know,

36:15

about

36:15

six months where I,

36:17

you know, I

36:20

was having suicidal thoughts and I kept talking to the

36:22

doctor and saying, like, these are making me worse and he

36:24

kept saying, like, I'll just give it another two weeks. Give

36:26

it another

36:28

two weeks. And it was just like,

36:30

this is much worse, much much worse than it was when I wasn't

36:32

taking them. And so I had

36:33

to sort of float really.

36:36

like, argue with the doctor

36:37

and say that this isn't this isn't what I want

36:39

this inform me and and convince him that

36:41

I wanted something else, which

36:44

is ridiculous. But

36:46

but like having

36:48

that conversation with my friend, like a

36:50

year and a half ago, that just came

36:52

about just to us talking together. And then I was

36:54

just like, oh, and then I found a new avenue

36:57

of something to explore and to

37:00

discover and And

37:02

so my first thing would be

37:04

if you're suffering from medicine, talk to

37:06

people and tell people what it is that you're

37:10

going through. get on a waiting list for a for a

37:12

therapist from the NHS and and

37:14

and talk to talk to them, talk to your

37:16

GP, talk to your friends and your family.

37:18

My family, are

37:20

not the best people

37:21

to talk to about about

37:24

depression. You know,

37:24

you may And and one of the things that

37:26

I've learned through therapy is that

37:29

you know, you have to accept people for who they are and what they

37:32

are and you can't be angry with them for not

37:34

being what you want them to be.

37:36

Yeah. My my mom and dad

37:38

are brilliant. but I they don't know. They get they get scared

37:40

and they get lost when it comes to

37:42

depression. And I try and sort

37:44

of, like, avoids

37:47

talking to

37:48

them about like the really big

37:50

stuff, whereas I've got a couple of

37:54

friends who have

37:58

been really, really kind of

37:59

amazing and helped me find

38:02

kind of

38:03

kind

38:05

of avenues to sort of,

38:07

like, help myself with. And then also

38:09

my girlfriend's been incredibly supportive and

38:12

incredible. And and, you know, we met

38:14

during the pandemic. And

38:16

and I thought I was alright. And

38:18

then I kind of, like, had had

38:21

an absolute kind

38:22

of

38:25

car

38:25

crash. And and she's been and and right

38:27

from the beginning, she's kind of, like, been

38:29

been completely there for me and

38:31

supported me. And But

38:33

it's not like when I say, go and talk to people, it's just

38:36

it's not not everyone will be there and will

38:38

be able to help you. No. Absolutely

38:41

not. I agree. But

38:42

but it's it's about kind of like it's

38:44

about educating yourself and

38:46

teaching yourself and kind of

38:48

like working out through

38:50

trial and error. What's what and who's

38:52

what? And and and and when I

38:54

drew that line in my head about

38:56

what my family are capable of and what they're not capable of,

39:00

then it improved my

39:02

relationship with my family, you know. I wasn't just there

39:04

like, oh,

39:06

Why why can't you see? What's wrong with me?

39:08

Why can't you, you know, I was just like, oh, we're

39:10

going out for a bit of Sunday lunch today.

39:14

Right? Okay. and I sort of,

39:16

like, managed to deal with things like

39:18

that. I mean,

39:19

with things like that, we're

39:22

talking to parents about sort

39:24

of deep topics and personal topics like that.

39:26

I sometimes think it could possibly

39:29

be a generational

39:31

thing. Yeah. Yeah.

39:32

I I think so. I think there

39:35

is a lot of anxiety in

39:37

the world now. I

39:39

think that there's lots of reasons for that.

39:42

I think social media isn't

39:44

kind of like a coincidence and

39:47

and and it's stuff that our

39:49

parents didn't have to deal with

39:51

and only deal with in a

39:53

very superficial kind of distant level It doesn't

39:55

rule it doesn't rule their

39:58

lives. And so I

40:00

think it

40:00

is a little bit difficult for them to relate

40:02

sometimes and for them to under stands.

40:04

And and that's not really that's

40:06

not really their fault. And

40:10

And and

40:11

also for some people, their parents

40:14

will be the best people that they can talk

40:16

to. So it's it's we're all we're

40:18

all different, you know. We're all in terms of like our

40:20

relationships with people in our

40:22

lives and and who we know and what we've

40:24

got. And and

40:26

we're also different in terms

40:28

of the chemical makeup of our brains and everything. And

40:30

so it's kind of like

40:32

literally

40:34

you can't go out there and say, oh, I've got mental health issues, and this is how to solve

40:36

them. But it is kind of like I've got mental health

40:39

issues, and this is how I'm attacking

40:42

them. Yeah. And I think the more people

40:44

talk about it. The other thing is even

40:46

if you take nothing away from the

40:50

show, just going out and talking about it like it's

40:52

normal is is a big help in

40:54

general, I think. Mhmm. You

40:56

know, it's just kind

40:57

of like, you know, I

41:00

with this show, rather

41:02

than, you know, given

41:04

a big dramatic buildup and a

41:06

reveal in the third act that and

41:08

then dear reader, it turned out I suffered

41:11

from depression, you know. I I come out and

41:13

I say, right at the right at the

41:15

start of the show. It's almost

41:17

sort of like a crazy way to start a show because you'd come out

41:19

and use I start talking about

41:22

antidepressant medication that

41:24

I'm on. And it's kind of like, well, this

41:26

isn't kind of like a real kind of like

41:28

crowd pleaser, is it? But

41:30

it it's always gone it's always gone

41:32

well. Yeah. And and then once

41:34

I've dealt with it, I can just do the

41:36

rest of the show and sort of and

41:38

get on with it. And I think I

41:40

think normalizing it, if if if

41:42

you're not giving that specific advice,

41:44

which I would – I wouldn't ever want

41:47

to give out that specific advice.

41:50

But But

41:51

just by going out and talking about it, you know, you're

41:53

you're setting an example for people that

41:56

that

41:58

it's alright.

41:59

Nick, you touched

41:59

on before about possibly going

42:02

back and watching the last

42:04

show. Are you quite sort of

42:06

forensics in your approach about going back

42:08

and watching the show and

42:10

seeing what worked and seeing what you wanna

42:12

fix because I would have

42:14

thought that well, that's quite specific

42:16

to that show. if it's

42:17

if it's gone, there's kinda nothing you can

42:19

change or is it is it more

42:21

about your approach to a joke or

42:24

how you deal with an audience about what you can

42:26

learn to take forward into the

42:28

next shows? No.

42:30

I think that each show is its own thing.

42:32

And III want to finish the

42:34

show. I draw a line under it. I forget

42:36

about it. And then this

42:38

this show, I mean, my last show

42:41

was written before the pandemic, and this

42:43

show was written after a two

42:45

year break I found I found my

42:47

last show incredibly

42:51

stressful mentally because I

42:53

was talking about mental health issues and I

42:56

felt like I said, I felt like I was

42:58

I was erring on the wrong side of

43:00

preaching this

43:02

and whether I was or not,

43:04

I don't know. But, like, I knew that

43:06

that's not what

43:07

I wanted to do, but

43:09

also when we canceled when

43:12

we cancelled the tour because of the pandemic, I

43:15

was so relieved and I didn't want

43:17

to do stand up. And when the pandemic, it was

43:19

it was weird, wasn't it? because it

43:22

was like, We are in very competitive industries where there

43:24

are only so many jobs

43:26

for a lot of

43:28

people. And

43:29

the And

43:30

with comedy, it's kind of like Edinburgh every year. You're kind

43:32

of like getting this. It's like a school year,

43:35

you know, in Edinburgh exams. And then throughout

43:37

the year, you're kind of like

43:39

getting ready for you sense, and then

43:41

it depends down at the beginning of August. You do your you

43:43

do your show, and then you get

43:45

reviewed, and then in in

43:47

the autumn, you you go on tour. And then

43:50

in January, you start kind of writing a

43:52

new show

43:54

again. And And

43:54

if you took if you

43:56

took an editor off, you'd feel like everyone

43:58

was overtaking it. And so even

44:00

if you took

44:02

a break, it

44:04

would be incredibly stressful because you'd just be thinking about

44:06

all the things that you weren't doing and all the people

44:08

that were overtaking you into us. And

44:10

I've always tried to you

44:13

know, be as I've always tried to sort of,

44:15

like,

44:15

not compete, you know, and

44:17

just do my

44:20

thing. And my thing is so different from everyone just sort

44:22

of the the not like there is

44:24

no contest, but it's just like you can't really

44:26

compete with this because it's different.

44:30

So so I've always just tried to just do my own

44:32

thing and and be get sucked into

44:35

being competitive and it's not a

44:37

good state of mind for me to

44:39

be in. And and so when

44:41

the pandemic hit, although

44:43

it was

44:44

terrible on a lot of

44:46

levels, you've got to

44:47

kind of look at the global thing and the personal

44:50

thing and and on a personal level, the

44:52

fact that everyone had

44:54

to stop kind of meant that it was possible. It was the first

44:56

break I'd had in twenty

44:58

years, you know. And -- Wow. --

45:00

but but

45:02

mentally. And and

45:04

and I kind of needed it. And then after

45:06

I'd sort of, like, healed for a little

45:09

bit, like like,

45:11

you know, months and

45:14

I eventually started wanting to do stand up

45:16

again. But I'd got to a point where I

45:18

didn't want I didn't wanna do

45:20

it. And And then

45:22

when the

45:22

restrictions got lifted, I my

45:25

first girl wasn't right at Porsche.

45:27

My first girl was just scraped something

45:29

together so you can say on stage. And

45:31

so the tour show, you

45:34

know, superficially ended up

45:36

being, like,

45:38

a greatest

45:38

hits of my favorite routines that I've done

45:41

since we're all being allowed out again.

45:43

And then the frame the

45:46

framework is looking back

45:48

on the last few years. But the

45:50

actual content of the show is stuff

45:52

that I've really enjoyed, like

45:56

Well,

45:56

I've got like I've got like specific set pieces. I've got

45:58

a bit about HelloFresh and I've got a bit

45:59

about prince Andrew and I've got a bit

46:02

about being on an

46:04

airplane and and

46:06

and comparing it

46:07

to the pandemic. And and those

46:09

are all like chunks that I really

46:11

enjoyed. And then it's about putting them in

46:13

a framework where

46:16

where it works.

46:17

Where it all where it all

46:19

still, like,

46:19

tries to flow

46:22

together. Mhmm. And

46:23

then it's kind of

46:24

like book ended with this story about

46:26

my family, which I wrote specifically for

46:28

Edinburgh. I think I wrote that during the

46:30

first week when I was in Edinburgh. because

46:33

I got up to Edinburgh with all these bits. So I was just like, I don't have

46:35

a beginning or an end. So I wrote the beginning, and then I was like, now

46:37

I need an end. And then And

46:40

then I met oh, maybe the I like, you set the end

46:42

up? So then I met the beginning, you

46:46

know? But and the, you

46:47

know, the bit about Hitler's dad, that's that's not

46:50

in that wasn't in the Edinburgh show, but that

46:52

was like a really fun bit of material that I

46:54

didn't really have a

46:56

place for. and everyone was like, well, you've gotta put that in the show. And when I did

46:58

Edinburgh, I just took it out because it was the only

47:00

bit that wasn't really

47:02

about anything. And then

47:04

when I was on tour, you put it back in again. And

47:06

this is like, great. It's a crowd pleaser,

47:08

everyone not everyone likes that bit. And so

47:10

yeah. And so really, it's kind

47:12

of like you look at a show, it's like a piece

47:15

of theater and you kind of like,

47:17

oh, right. It's it's got this story that goes through it

47:19

that's got a beginning in the middle and an end, and it's very But but in

47:21

terms of kind of like putting

47:23

this show together, It was really

47:26

it was like LEGO. It was just like, this

47:28

is a bit that I like, and this is a bit that I

47:30

like, and this is a bit that I like, and and how

47:32

to construct it all. Whereas the

47:34

last show, was was I

47:36

think very much kind of like

47:38

this is my journey through

47:40

a thing. and it was

47:42

it was it was it

47:44

started off as as kind of like how do

47:46

I tell this story?

47:48

Being specific Edinbro, you touched on there

47:51

how you didn't really have

47:53

that that certain start or that certain

47:55

end, and you're just gonna try

47:57

and Right. When you get up there, that's quite

47:59

a scary prospect

48:00

to go up

48:01

there for a month. Is that oh, do

48:03

you normally work like that?

48:05

Yeah. III

48:07

would say,

48:09

well, in the early days when when I

48:11

did something like my my first,

48:14

like, big Well, tell what? The year before that in two thousand and

48:16

nine, I was meant to do

48:18

a show with two other

48:20

comedians who dropped out right at the

48:22

last minute. and

48:24

and when I tried to cancel the show because

48:26

it was under my name, they

48:28

wouldn't let me. And they said

48:32

your name you'll never you'll never work for PPH ever

48:34

again. And if you know PPH, it's kind of

48:36

like it's the

48:39

free fringe and it it helps a lot of comedian

48:41

start out. Mhmm. But but

48:44

at the time, I was

48:45

I felt like

48:46

I was gonna be blacklisted and

48:49

that was the end of my career.

48:52

And so I I had written

48:54

poems and songs in the past. So basically, I

48:56

just took a bunch of

48:58

poems that worked and a bunch of songs that

49:00

worked, and then I came up with a couple of

49:02

routines. And I did it in a

49:04

very short amount of time, maybe

49:06

a month and I went up to Edinburgh and show sort

49:08

of evolved like the first it's a bit like a

49:10

house sort of like expanding

49:12

and and it found it's kind

49:14

of like place after

49:16

a few days and then and

49:18

then that was just a really good show and and

49:20

and I put it together very very quickly.

49:22

And then when I did two

49:26

thousand ten. I was

49:28

previewing that, but I was like doing

49:30

stuff with props and I had

49:32

sort of like AAA

49:34

musician friend who was on stage with

49:37

me, play guitar, and and it

49:39

was there were all these elements

49:41

to it that And and plus,

49:44

it's kind of like,

49:46

I need a song.

49:47

So I'll write a song and I'll spend a

49:50

day or two days writing a song, but at the

49:52

end of doing that, you've written a four you

49:54

haven't written fifty six minutes of

49:56

stand up. Yeah. So it's just

49:58

like, well, what what okay. The

50:00

song's great.

50:02

it's just like, what do I do with the rest of the time? Mhmm.

50:04

And so previews were always

50:06

just a nightmare. You'd kind of try and try and

50:08

do a couple of previews and then it'd be like,

50:11

well, that doesn't and that can work or

50:13

whatever. And I think people pre everyone's different. Everyone works

50:16

differently. Some people

50:18

preview it. until they're

50:20

happy with the show. And then they go, right.

50:22

That's the show. And then they

50:24

take it out to Edinburgh. But I'll

50:26

preview it until I can let go. I think I've got the

50:28

basic chest of it and maybe the

50:30

last in two thousand ten, my

50:32

last preview was rubbish, but But

50:36

I knew

50:36

what didn't work,

50:37

and then I knew what did work. And then I took

50:39

it up to Edinburgh, and I did it. And

50:41

then also, on the first

50:43

day, there people in the room. And I used to do a

50:45

thing where I'd sing nice to meet you, nice to

50:48

greet you, nice to say, hey,

50:50

hello, and I've get an audience

50:52

member out and then I'll say, nice to meet you. Nice to

50:54

greet you. Nice to meet

50:56

you. Nice to meet you. And nice to

50:58

meet you nice to greet you. Nice to say

51:00

hello and

51:02

then I say hello, and they say hello, and then they say their name.

51:04

And then I go, great. And and

51:06

that was it. And I was gonna

51:07

work with

51:10

them on, you know, throughout the hour, there'd be an audience

51:12

member who'd

51:12

be like helping me out. And that's what

51:14

I went up to Edinburgh with. But

51:17

on the first day, there was four people in the audience. And

51:19

it was just like, well, it's a bit weird, just

51:21

taking one person out. So I got, like, everyone out of

51:23

the audience on stage, and we all met each other.

51:25

and put them back. And then the next day, there was ten people in

51:27

the audience, and I got them all out.

51:30

And then at the end of the week, there was,

51:32

like, it was, like, it was filled. You know,

51:34

there was, like, People were coming

51:36

up to me in the streets going, apparently, you

51:38

get everyone on stage. And I

51:40

was just like, yeah. And it became its

51:42

own sort of like, marketing

51:44

thing, it was like, well, I when

51:46

when people say this word-of-mouth that, you

51:48

know, you're you're not really

51:50

in the loop on that, because people are talking

51:52

about, you know, not to but there

51:54

was, like, this word-of-mouth about that show because

51:56

I've got all these people up on stage. And

51:58

every day, I'd get, like, eighty people up

52:00

on stage. and and one at a

52:02

time or like chunks at a time.

52:04

And there'd always be one person left in the

52:06

audience that that would be the

52:08

audience member. And that's the thing that literally came together

52:10

throughout the first week of being up in in the

52:12

festival. And it was the best it well, maybe not the best

52:14

thing about the show, but it's one of the

52:16

things that that show

52:18

stand out. Mhmm. And

52:20

and, you

52:21

know, TV

52:23

people can

52:24

see that. That's what got me my job on

52:28

Roso has good news,

52:30

which made me a headliner. So

52:32

I went from kind of like being like a middle

52:34

spot to being like a

52:36

headliner. And And and

52:38

when when you get up

52:40

there and you realize that so much of it

52:42

is just auto chance anyway, you

52:44

know, it's about kind of like get

52:46

you What I try and do is I try

52:49

and get all the bits for

52:51

a

52:51

car together and then I

52:52

take it up to Edinburgh and then I assemble the

52:54

car when I'm in the venue and

52:56

and it's and I think that I think that's how I kind of try and

52:59

do it. And if I need sort of like a new bit, then I'll write

53:01

it. But I'm not like writing the

53:03

show. I'm kind of like, there's

53:06

a little gap there that that that isn't clear

53:09

enough for like this bit to

53:11

work later on. So now I'm gonna

53:13

fill that gap with with

53:15

that bit. Or I've

53:18

got a message that I want to say and I

53:20

don't know how to fit it into the show. So

53:22

it's about working out the logistics of

53:24

how to do it all. and it does

53:26

change when you're in the

53:28

room. Yeah. And so

53:30

so I think when

53:32

that happens, you kind of

53:34

You kind of – you're

53:35

serious about writing the show,

53:36

but in terms of constructing the show and

53:39

putting the show together, you have to take it with

53:41

a bit of a pinch of salt. And

53:44

also kind of like you might have the best material ever, but

53:46

you do it in front of the most ungrateful audience

53:48

that you've ever seen. And, look,

53:50

I've had I've had gigs where

53:53

they've been going so badly. The

53:56

like, even within the last year where I've

53:58

gone kinda gone I've got a really good bit coming up now,

54:00

and I'm not gonna do it because I

54:02

like it. And if I do it in front

54:04

of you, you don't deserve it.

54:06

You're gonna make me hate it. You're gonna make

54:08

me doubt it. like next time I do it,

54:10

I'm gonna be thinking, is it any good? So

54:12

I'll be kind of like, I'll do all my b,

54:14

c material, but I'm not giving you the

54:16

a stuff because you're gonna you you don't know what

54:18

to do with it. So so

54:22

so there's kind of focus of that. You

54:24

know, it's I first

54:26

and foremost, I think it's really fun. I really

54:28

enjoy putting a show together and take

54:30

it out, you know, I don't think I've ever said that

54:32

in any I've

54:34

always kind of like being kind of a little bit, like, ponderous

54:36

about it. But I

54:38

find putting a show together

54:41

and making it work. that's

54:43

the really fun bit and and I enjoy

54:45

it, you know. Well, it really

54:47

sounds to me like your love

54:49

of stand up is back.

54:51

and thriving. Can you know, if we went back

54:53

at the early stage of the pandemic where you

54:56

didn't want to get up and do it

54:58

again. Yeah. sounds like you you're

55:00

firing on all cylinders there that the passion and the love is is

55:02

where it needs to be. Yeah.

55:04

And but I

55:05

think that I

55:08

think that

55:09

it's

55:10

a lot of that

55:13

is the audience, you know. It's

55:16

kind of I love I love going out there and

55:18

I love doing a

55:20

show. I love I love doing

55:22

the merch you know, I I

55:24

signed much at the end and I always say, you know, you

55:26

don't have to buy anything. You can just say hello if

55:28

that's what you want. And and

55:30

that's like a really

55:32

important part me. And the whole the whole evening is

55:34

kind of like really

55:36

special. So to go out and meet people

55:38

again and kind of perform in

55:41

front of I've enjoyed doing club gigs

55:43

since I've come back. You know, when you're on

55:45

a mixed bill where, you know, you're one

55:47

of five comedians

55:50

and that's the sort of stuff

55:52

that before the pandemic, it yeah.

55:55

It

55:55

would terrify

55:56

me. I'd get really stressed about it.

55:59

And I

55:59

think one of the important things that I've done

56:02

since the pandemic was

56:04

I've kind of come to terms with

56:06

the fact that I am a standard comedian. I've

56:08

gone right. this is my

56:10

job.

56:10

This is what I do.

56:12

You probably

56:13

you know, you know, after the pandemic,

56:15

I needed to make some money. And it was just like, what's

56:17

the quickest way to make some money? or I

56:19

can get a keep tonight and I can go out and do

56:21

it, the only problem is I don't want

56:23

to do it. So how do

56:25

I make myself want to do it? And

56:27

so after

56:27

the pandemic, I spent my a

56:30

couple of months, you know, just

56:32

going out there and

56:34

doing gigs and retraining and re teaching

56:36

myself how to do

56:38

stand up and how to enjoy

56:40

it. And And

56:42

I went from kind of like dreading clubcakes to kind of like going

56:44

back out there and just really just really making

56:46

the most of them and really enjoying

56:50

them. And And

56:52

in the past, I've really managed to split rooms

56:54

where some people love me and some people hate

56:56

me and I'll be having a great gig

56:58

and a bad gig at the same time.

57:00

to kind of, like, lowering that percentage that more

57:02

people were enjoying it. And and

57:08

Yeah. I'm being I'm I'm kind of like

57:10

being more

57:12

instinctive about

57:14

it. And and I've taught

57:16

myself how to just sort of, like, if I'm gonna be

57:18

doing this for the rest of my life, I better

57:20

fucking start enjoying it. And so -- Yeah. -- so

57:22

I've taught myself how to enjoy it and

57:24

and and I love it now. it's brilliant.

57:26

And and it's sort of like such a weird

57:28

distant memory to think it's something that I didn't

57:30

wanna do, you know. Mhmm. But it

57:32

was it was a couple of

57:34

years ago. Why

57:34

did you why did you shy away from

57:36

calling yourself a

57:37

standard comedian or admitting to

57:39

yourself that you were a standard comedian?

57:41

Was it through

57:44

embarrassment

57:44

or you didn't feel legit? Or No.

57:46

I think it is because

57:48

I found it hard. It was

57:51

really difficult. It was not

57:53

not doing it. I'm alright when I'm on stage. As soon as

57:55

I get on stage, even if it's a

57:58

bad kick, as soon as I'm on

58:00

stage, you know what you're

58:02

dealing with. but it's waiting all day to get on

58:04

stage and not knowing.

58:06

And then and and so I would

58:10

have I would have gig coming up

58:12

and I it would be like it

58:14

would be like an app running on the you

58:16

know, you'd be low level

58:20

stressed about it and then the closer it would

58:22

get in the when I first started in standard of

58:24

quality, if I had a gig, I would be nervous

58:26

for two weeks before the gig.

58:28

and then it got down to

58:30

about an hour. And and and

58:34

and now I'm

58:36

doing it. or

58:38

my goal for doing it. I

58:40

didn't do club I didn't

58:43

do club sets for about

58:45

maybe six years. I

58:47

would do Edinburgh every year or I would do or I'd be

58:50

doing Italian. I couldn't do

58:52

Edinburgh. And

58:55

and my show, my you know, when when I did the twenty,

58:57

my twenty consisted of

59:00

this five one liners, then I do

59:02

a song. then I do a bit

59:04

of audience participation, then I do a poem, then I do a story, then I do

59:06

another song, then I do small one

59:10

liner, than I do. And it was just like there was so many elements for me to

59:12

remember. I would just freak out about, oh my

59:14

god, I'm gonna forget something or whatever. What if it

59:16

goes wrong? and then start

59:18

planning for plan b rather than plan a and

59:20

go, well, if I get that bit wrong, then maybe if I do

59:22

that and then go, why am I learning plan

59:24

b? Well, I should just be concentrating on plan

59:26

a and and it's just kind of

59:28

like, there were so many elements to it

59:30

that it was, you know, it was

59:32

overwhelming to me. And then when I came

59:34

back to it after the pandemic, it was just like,

59:36

right. Okay. throw all that

59:38

out. I I

59:40

need to remember three things. Yeah. I need to

59:42

remember Pixel Max Cherry,

59:44

Sam's Breeze, and HelloFresh. and I

59:47

can do twenty minutes with those three things

59:49

and and that will

59:51

earn me whatever money for

59:53

that night, you know. and

59:56

I can just go up.

59:56

I don't have to think about it at any

59:59

point throughout the

59:59

day. Don't have to build up to it all through the

1:00:02

week. I probably think about it five minutes

1:00:04

before I go on stage. and then I walk stage

1:00:06

and I do it. And it wasn't about generating

1:00:08

material. It was about making the material

1:00:10

I had work and it was about

1:00:13

being comfortable with just getting up and

1:00:15

doing it. And and that's what this

1:00:17

show is sort of like made from. It's

1:00:19

made from routines that I

1:00:21

just found really enjoyable, really

1:00:24

straightforward, really easy to

1:00:26

remember, and I'd just go out and I'd do it. And

1:00:28

it wasn't like song lyric where it's just IIII

1:00:31

freak out about song lyrics.

1:00:34

Mhmm. I write songs,

1:00:36

but I find remembering

1:00:38

the songs incredibly difficult. And I've got

1:00:40

a really terrible memory with that with that

1:00:42

stuff. But with standup, it's not

1:00:44

like I've written a script and I've

1:00:46

learned it. it's

1:00:48

conversational and you say it sort

1:00:50

of fairly similar every single

1:00:52

day until you get like

1:00:54

the the the pattern sort

1:00:56

of sorted in your head and

1:00:58

then and then you remember it like

1:01:00

that way.

1:01:02

And Yeah.

1:01:03

I mean, I wouldn't say that

1:01:04

I was embarrassed about the

1:01:05

Instagram community, but I would say that I found

1:01:08

it really, really,

1:01:10

really just And when I started

1:01:12

doing tele, I was just

1:01:14

like, not

1:01:15

that I

1:01:17

find that

1:01:20

easy, but you don't

1:01:20

have that immediate

1:01:21

pressure of getting up

1:01:24

in front of a room for the people and trying to make them

1:01:26

laugh. And it was it was kind

1:01:28

of like I find a

1:01:30

fantastic acting kind

1:01:32

of. It was something that I've always wanted to do,

1:01:34

but also

1:01:37

it's a different sort of stress. It's a

1:01:40

different pressure

1:01:42

that isn't necessarily about

1:01:45

the don't

1:01:47

know. Like TV acting is different than theater

1:01:49

acting as well, but it's kind

1:01:51

of like I found that also with

1:01:53

Uncle was just just the most supportive environment that you could

1:01:55

have done it under. And so I

1:01:58

sort of like found my way over the

1:01:59

series to to to work

1:02:02

out what

1:02:04

it was how how to do it, I suppose.

1:02:06

Yeah. No. I'm only asking

1:02:08

about

1:02:08

feeling legitimate

1:02:10

because I've and not that this is about

1:02:12

me. and it never is. But

1:02:14

in my twenties, I

1:02:16

I used to be embarrassed

1:02:21

to to call myself an actor.

1:02:23

And I know many other people that that are

1:02:25

like that because they just don't they

1:02:27

don't feel legitimate. And over the years, you

1:02:29

just go, oh, that's I think I've kind

1:02:31

of earned my stripes now. Not that I wanna go around with a microphone saying it, but certainly if someone asked

1:02:34

me at a party, I'm not

1:02:36

gonna pretend that I have

1:02:38

another career.

1:02:40

I

1:02:41

think, yeah, I think that it's

1:02:42

impostor syndrome, isn't it? And you're kind of,

1:02:44

oh, well, I'm an actor, but I'm gonna

1:02:46

get found out one day.

1:02:49

that I'm not an actor, and everyone's gonna realize that

1:02:51

I'm not an actor, and and it's

1:02:53

gonna be with comedy, it's

1:02:55

slightly different because when

1:02:58

you're at a wedding and you bump in someone, they

1:03:00

said, what do you do for a living? And you say

1:03:03

I'm a comedian. they you know, if you say you're an actor, they don't say

1:03:05

go and then do us a bit of how much. Joe, when

1:03:08

you're a comedian, it's like, I'll tell us

1:03:10

a joke. there is kind of

1:03:12

like a thing where you just sort of like you you

1:03:14

frame it differently. You say, oh, I'm a

1:03:16

writer, you know. Yeah. Or, you

1:03:18

know, I

1:03:20

mean, Yeah. So I think they were kind of like No. But what they

1:03:22

do what they do say when you say I'm an

1:03:26

actor is what would I

1:03:28

have seen you in? Yeah. Right. And then that's

1:03:30

always sort of flight. I well,

1:03:32

you get you get people that recognize you

1:03:34

who'd come up to you and say,

1:03:36

are you famous? And you go, well, no. Obviously

1:03:40

not. You

1:03:42

know? So

1:03:44

so there's sort of like there's the there's the embarrassment in

1:03:46

that, but there's also I

1:03:48

think that one of the hardest

1:03:50

things that you can do is

1:03:53

admit to yourself what your dreams

1:03:55

are. And and it's that one

1:03:57

of those things where you

1:03:59

kind of like you know, you say to yourself, oh, I wanna be

1:04:01

I wanna be an actor. I don't just wanna be an actor, I

1:04:04

wanna be a successful actor, you know?

1:04:06

Or I wanna be

1:04:08

famous, or I wanna be the best comedian in the country. I

1:04:10

wanna be whatever and whatever your dream is.

1:04:12

And and the first thing you do is you

1:04:14

kinda like, oh, yeah. Well, that's not a

1:04:16

thing. I'd

1:04:18

I'd look. how do I just

1:04:20

sort of, like, go about my daily? And James are really easy to put up on a shelf and

1:04:22

just sort of, like, admire until

1:04:26

they're they're not relevant anymore until that moment has passed.

1:04:28

And I think one of the hard things to do

1:04:30

is to sort of like say, no. This is what I

1:04:32

wanted to do. I've got one shot at

1:04:36

this. It's this window with my life, and I'm gonna really go for

1:04:38

it, and I'm gonna try and make something of this.

1:04:40

And is is it work

1:04:43

so it doesn't but, like, I think that the important thing is

1:04:45

that you tried. And III people

1:04:48

always used to come up to me saying, oh,

1:04:50

fucking know your brave being

1:04:52

a being a comedian, i. e. that's like the hardest job in the world. And I

1:04:55

would be like, yeah, I think that it is

1:04:57

I think it is hard, but,

1:04:59

oh, it is scary. but

1:05:01

I always found what was scarier was

1:05:04

the sort of getting to the end of my life on my

1:05:06

deathbed. I'm thinking I never did. I

1:05:08

never tried. And

1:05:10

so so I do find stand up

1:05:12

scary, but I also find the the prospect

1:05:14

of not doing stand up scary.

1:05:16

Yeah. So So

1:05:18

I went for the less scary I'm I'm a coward. I went for the

1:05:20

less scary option which was getting up and doing

1:05:22

it, you know. Nick Holmes, that

1:05:25

seems like such a perfect place to end our conversation,

1:05:27

and I've really loved it. Thanks so much

1:05:29

for spending time with me. Thank you for asking

1:05:31

me. That's right. You're welcome, my friend. A good luck

1:05:33

with the tour mate. It's brilliant.

1:05:35

Great. Thank you very much. It was lovely to see you

1:05:38

again.

1:05:39

And

1:05:41

another episode is

1:05:43

Done. What did

1:05:44

I tell you? What a lovely a

1:05:47

lovely grounded but

1:05:50

very sensitive man. I think Nick

1:05:52

Elm is and I'm thrilled. And he

1:05:54

came in, I loved that chap.

1:05:57

As I said, you know what

1:05:59

I'm like? I don't do plugs. No one

1:06:01

asks me. When people ask me to do the plug in, I'll just go now. I'll just go

1:06:03

to somebody else's podcast or something. You

1:06:05

know, those people that

1:06:08

do that. what have we become?

1:06:10

There's Nick Adams stand

1:06:12

up tour show that you

1:06:14

can go and catch them right now.

1:06:17

Google it. If it's

1:06:19

near you, go it is

1:06:21

a good night out and

1:06:23

my god you get

1:06:25

your money's It's not

1:06:28

straight one hour. You know? He

1:06:30

comes on. He's gone into home. You've

1:06:33

got more. It's fun. Fantastic.

1:06:35

And hopefully, after you've heard

1:06:38

this podcast now,

1:06:39

you're gonna get

1:06:42

some tickets. I would,

1:06:43

I did, and I really

1:06:46

enjoyed it. I can hardly

1:06:48

recommend it. So

1:06:50

what else have we got to say

1:06:52

not a lot because obviously, you can

1:06:54

hear my voice. I'm

1:06:56

like, done here. Don't go to

1:06:58

bed spare But thank you

1:06:59

for being so patient

1:07:02

and hanging in the

1:07:04

podcast. We'll be coming back, as

1:07:06

I said. on

1:07:08

a more regular basis

1:07:10

very, very soon. So keep the

1:07:12

phase low. But this is big down five

1:07:14

years. We're not dropping out now.

1:07:16

And we've got some good guests coming up.

1:07:19

I

1:07:19

think you are not gonna wanna

1:07:21

miss. We're gonna bow

1:07:23

out season ten. as

1:07:26

we start, as we always start, and

1:07:29

as we always end on

1:07:31

a massive high with

1:07:33

brilliant guests, with conversations that

1:07:36

you're not hearing anywhere else. And

1:07:38

if you feel like you

1:07:40

can suppose then go to

1:07:42

patreon dot com slash the two

1:07:44

shot pod.

1:07:45

And you know what? If you want

1:07:48

something

1:07:48

else, We've got hoodies.

1:07:50

We've got t shirts. We've got mugs.

1:07:52

We've got stickers. But do you

1:07:54

know what? It's getting a bit colder.

1:07:57

Maybe those lovely, toasty,

1:08:00

soft hoodies have

1:08:02

got your name right now over it. And if

1:08:04

that's the way you wanna

1:08:06

support us, I'm not

1:08:07

I'm not gonna hold you back. You do that. I

1:08:09

heartily recommend

1:08:10

the gray it's

1:08:13

so

1:08:14

soft and it looks very cool. As ever, you

1:08:16

can support us on all the

1:08:18

social

1:08:19

media's showers out, tag

1:08:23

us in, we're Twitter, we're Facebook, we're Instagram at

1:08:25

two shot pod, and

1:08:27

it's two shot pod at gmail

1:08:29

dot com if you wanna drop

1:08:31

us a line. Right? You

1:08:33

do whatever you need to do, and

1:08:34

I wouldn't hear it too bad.

1:08:37

Until I

1:08:39

see you again. which

1:08:41

will be very soon a

1:08:43

promise. I've been great Parkinson. He's

1:08:43

been produced to Greff, and this

1:08:45

has been the

1:08:47

very welcome return. free will return

1:08:50

of

1:08:50

the two show podcast.

1:08:53

Check

1:08:53

it easy.

1:08:56

The two show

1:08:58

cast was presented by me, Craig Parkinson,

1:09:00

recorded and

1:09:00

produced by Thomas Griffin for

1:09:02

splicing block, the remix of our

1:09:04

films, is by

1:09:08

stolen valour.

1:09:11

Cheers.

1:09:37

ah