0:01

Welcome to the Victor Davis Hansen

0:03

Show. Victor is the Martin and

0:05

Ellie Anderson senior fellow in military

0:07

history and classic at the Hoover Institution and

0:10

the Wayne and Marsha Busky distinguished fellow

0:12

in history at Hillsdale College. He

0:15

is found at his website hanson

0:17

dot com and it is named

0:19

the Blade of Perseus. Please come

0:21

join us there either for a free

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subscription and get on our mailing list

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or five dollars a month

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or fifty dollars a year for a

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subscription so that you can read

0:33

the plentiful VDH

0:35

Ultra articles. Victor,

0:39

I hope all things are going well today.

0:41

I know that you're very busy.

0:43

You've got wonderful weather out in

0:45

California, although it's a new storm

0:47

as

0:48

well. Wonderful. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait.

0:50

Wonderful. So in

0:52

the state of global warming, this is

0:54

the and I'm sixty nine years old.

0:56

I'm sitting in the house where I grew up.

0:59

And this is the coldest spring.

1:02

No. It's not even officially spring yet.

1:04

Late winter, I should say, that I've ever experienced

1:06

the wettest.

1:07

Yes. Oh, that we're statistically, we're not

1:10

quite at the wettest year, but --

1:12

Yeah. -- I am very religious.

1:14

I'm praying that my

1:16

portal house up at Huntington Lake,

1:19

which is you can't see it. It's

1:21

in a cocoon apparently, but you can't get

1:23

up there. Yeah. And we

1:26

had removed, I think, fifteen feet

1:28

prior, and now it's buried under another

1:31

fifteen, and it's supposed to get another 45I

1:33

hope all these homes survive. Yeah.

1:36

I sure do. And then I also

1:38

hear typical warm rain is supposed to come.

1:40

Is that gonna make it better or worse? Flood.

1:43

Going to bed. I don't know. But at this

1:45

time, I've been very worried about it. Yeah.

1:47

And they go get a smart video. Smell

1:50

plowers or snowblowers and

1:52

go up there.

1:53

Yeah. It coldest winter ever I

1:55

hear that PG and E is complaining

1:57

to you that you might be using too much electricity

2:00

in this coldest winter ever because

2:02

they don't have enough

2:03

electricity, but we're all gonna be on

2:05

EV car ours in the future, none

2:08

the less. I think it's my wife's

2:11

blanket, warm blanket,

2:13

electronic blanket, whatever

2:15

you call it for four Queensland. I

2:17

don't know why they don't tough it

2:19

out like they did in Australia and their

2:21

boroughs. But they have to

2:23

have heated blankets as well as,

2:26

I don't know, little suits that they

2:27

wear. I don't know. But that's

2:30

part of it. That's part. Yeah. Yeah.

2:32

We'll give your wife a break, and we'll turn

2:34

to the show. This is the weekend

2:37

edition, and so we take a closer look often

2:39

at something historical, and we're on a

2:41

pursuit of wars, and I believe we're on the

2:43

punic wars. But hang

2:46

in there, we'll do the new you

2:48

know, some news first because there's so much

2:50

news going on today, but

2:52

we'll have a break first and then we'll come right

2:55

back. Hello,

2:59

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org. Covid tax relief dot

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org. Welcome

4:06

back. So, Victor, I

4:08

I like to just ask you what I usually

4:10

think is a short news story, but if it turns

4:12

out long, it's just as well. This

4:15

is sad. There were four

4:18

people that were kidnapped at

4:20

the border, just over the border. And

4:22

two of them were killed and they appeared to have

4:24

been kidnapped by a cartel. I

4:26

think the other two have come back

4:28

alive and have been returned. But

4:31

I thought I was wondering if you had any thoughts

4:33

on

4:33

that. Yeah. We don't have a lot of information. I

4:35

think they were as

4:38

many Americans do, they

4:41

were going to go

4:43

to Mexico for a medical procedure

4:45

or some type. I don't know cancer treatment

4:47

or what it was, but they were

4:50

innocent bystanders and one

4:52

story had them caught in a crossfire between

4:57

gang members. I don't know if it's the scenarios

5:00

who's operative in that particular

5:02

area of Mexico. But two

5:04

were killed, one was kidnapped, and

5:07

one was, I

5:08

guess, okay as well, or maybe two were kidnapped,

5:11

but

5:14

it's it's pretty scary to tell

5:16

you the truth. And I think Americans

5:18

because have you noticed that Joe Biden

5:20

suddenly after letting in

5:22

six to seven million people,

5:26

which cost in New York alone five

5:28

million dollars a day to put

5:31

them in hotels and deprive

5:33

or poor American citizens of easy

5:35

access to social services of these impacted

5:38

areas. And the

5:40

cartels have made a fortune under

5:42

the Biden ministry. He's the best friend they ever

5:44

had. And remember, he

5:46

got very angry when people reminded

5:48

him that there had been

5:50

a hundred thousand plus fentanyl

5:53

deaths this year and almost about the

5:55

year for his

5:57

administration spiking that horrendous

6:00

toll, and he said,

6:04

No. That was Tom. We chuckled over

6:06

it. That was a bad week, by the way, for

6:08

Biden last week. Set

6:11

set on. I may be I may be

6:13

a white boy, but I'm not stupid as

6:16

if all white people are stupid as

6:18

he was performing and starting to his

6:20

audience, and then he had a bad spill

6:23

on the stairway. And

6:27

he tells these whoppers that he was in

6:29

the civil rights movement, you know, and he's

6:31

already been caught on that. And then

6:33

he just think about Biden as he said

6:35

a lie, and then some not

6:37

the left, but some conservative back

6:40

checker points that out to

6:42

the media, then his hammers get

6:44

worried, so they kind say he

6:46

missed me remembered. And then

6:48

he thinks that's the exemption.

6:50

Once you get caught lying, it does not

6:53

the natural response never lie again as

6:55

well. I got caught line, so now I can say

6:57

it wherever I want. I've already

6:59

paid the price. It'd be revealed as a

7:01

liar. So what's the problem? And that's

7:03

what

7:03

he needs. And you know that trip

7:05

on the the stairwell stair

7:08

staircase to stairwell

7:10

stairway steps to his Air

7:13

Force one, that's the third

7:15

time. And for somebody who grew up

7:17

taking care of an elder, I grew up, you

7:19

know, with my grandparents and

7:22

then I my ninety eight year old grandmother

7:24

lived with us. And I was one of

7:26

her one of two caregivers. And

7:29

once you fall once or twice,

7:32

that's a warning that that's

7:34

gonna happen again because of dizziness

7:36

and lack of muscularity in the legs

7:38

and balance. And so I

7:42

don't want to be alarmist, but I think

7:44

that people should realize that if he's fallen

7:46

three times. He's gonna fall

7:48

again unless people take steps.

7:51

I don't know whether that be to carry him up

7:53

or what. Or other areas. But

7:55

I do not think Joe Biden is going to be

7:58

the nominee in two thousand twenty

8:00

four for the Democratic Party. I think he's gonna

8:02

have unfortunately, some kind

8:04

of incident,

8:06

a health incident, and it may be breaking his

8:09

hip or something if he's not careful, but that's

8:11

pretty shocking that the president

8:13

of the United States three

8:15

times has fallen while trying

8:17

to mount the steps to his airplane and

8:20

Remember the left thought that was hilarious when

8:22

Jerry Ford fell Saturday night

8:24

live, created a whole Chevy Chase persona

8:27

forty years ago, you know, Yes.

8:30

About how Jerry Ford

8:32

fell down on his, oh, he can't he's so

8:34

clumsy. And so it's not

8:36

as if they're they're they're a sensitive

8:39

group of people and they don't say anything about

8:41

this. And so it's

8:44

Anyway, the other thing about Mexico

8:46

is at some point,

8:49

and I don't know where we are, Biden

8:51

has understood that that is a losing

8:55

issue and that the Republicans

8:57

now own the house.

9:00

If they were to impeach

9:02

a lot Alexandro Myorgas

9:05

or Joel Biden, they would get very close. I

9:07

don't know if they have quite the margin party,

9:11

solidarity, and loyalty

9:14

to do that, but that would be a stinging

9:16

review for show Biden to be impeached, and

9:18

it would be a very easy impeachment because it's

9:20

not political like the Trump impeachment or

9:23

even the Clinton impeachment. It's

9:25

not about sex. It's not about

9:27

a phone call. It's about the president of

9:29

the United States taking an oath

9:32

to uphold and execute the laws

9:34

and not doing it deliberately and

9:36

knowingly so. He destroyed

9:38

the corpus of

9:40

federal immigration law. And at the

9:43

same point, you know, he greenlighted it.

9:45

And then once he did that in January

9:48

from his first act of stopping the wall and

9:50

biting people in, he and I'm I mean, that literally

9:52

they said, come on in. Than

9:54

six, seven million people did come in

9:57

and think of all the disconnects that

10:00

we're not allowing athletes

10:03

to come in the United States who are foreign nationals

10:06

without vaccinations. I don't know why.

10:09

Vaccinations did not prevent infectiousness

10:11

or being infected, but we

10:13

did let six million people just

10:15

cross into the country

10:18

without a passport, without

10:20

audit, without a COVID test,

10:22

without a COVID vaccination. So they were

10:24

actually treated better than those

10:26

people who's tried to come in legally.

10:29

And then when you look at Obadore,

10:32

I mean, what what would be an enemy of the United

10:34

States? Some country that knowingly

10:37

allowed people on its soil to

10:39

kill more people in one year

10:42

than all the Americans that have died

10:44

in Iraq Afghanistan, Vietnam,

10:48

fifty seven thousand, thirty

10:51

eight thousand, Korea, more than

10:53

that, in one year.

10:55

And this was about two thousand

10:57

eleven. This is almost a

10:59

half a million. We're getting, I think, you could

11:01

make the argument that opioid

11:04

ODs in the last decade

11:07

have killed more Americans than were lost

11:09

in world war two. What would a

11:11

country have to do to be called an enemy

11:15

after that? And that this is

11:17

besides the idea that they are sending

11:19

people up here deliberately who

11:22

will send them back out of the US

11:24

economy sixty sixty

11:27

sixty billion dollars.

11:30

And that money will

11:32

be freed up from

11:34

for illegal aliens by

11:37

state and federal subsidies

11:40

for housing, education, healthcare,

11:43

and food. The American taxpayer

11:45

is paying basically

11:48

for that money to be freed up to send

11:50

that three hundred or four hundred dollars a month

11:52

back per person back to Mexico.

11:55

And then in addition to that, they have a next

11:57

patriot community that the longer that they're

11:59

distant from Mexico, the more in astalgic

12:01

Mexico seems they become a potent

12:05

lobbying force for Mexico. Don't believe

12:07

me, Sami. That's what Obrador said. This

12:09

is it's wonderful. It's forty million

12:11

people in that are

12:13

are people in Mexico. And then

12:15

this is beside no.

12:18

It's a it's a Frederick Jackson Turner

12:20

safety valve issue for Mexico. Would you

12:22

whether have seven

12:24

million people going to the United States and

12:27

being a very secure

12:29

source of foreign exchange, large

12:31

source of foreign exchange as we met. So it's

12:33

for Mexico, or would you like them to

12:36

march on Mexico City to air their

12:38

grievances that they are the victims

12:40

of a racist corrupt government

12:42

in Mexico City. I say that without

12:45

bomb ass because Mexico's top

12:47

in drug enforcement officer. I think

12:50

his name is mister Luna. He's now been

12:52

convicted in a courtroom

12:54

in New York, the top drug fired

12:57

in Mexico was working with the cartels

12:59

that tipped them off. Wow.

13:01

At some point, what

13:04

do you say to Mexico? And I this

13:06

is my right suggestion. I would

13:08

say to Mexico, we don't want any

13:10

people coming into our country illegally.

13:13

We want you to shut down the

13:15

drug manufacturing sites

13:19

in Mexico that are liberally making

13:21

fentanyl pills look like other

13:23

opiates so that they can be. I

13:26

guess kill people or get them addicted

13:28

And we want it to stop because it's killing a hundred

13:30

thousand Americans. And if you don't wanna do

13:32

it, that's your business. But here's what's gonna

13:34

happen. A, we're gonna finish

13:36

the wall immediately. B,

13:39

we're gonna start importing any Mexican

13:42

national who's here illegally. C,

13:45

we're gonna push a put a ten

13:47

percent tax on any money by

13:49

sent by anybody to Mexico

13:52

and that's gonna raise six billion

13:54

dollars to pay for the wall. Trump finally

13:56

will pay for his wall, that comment thinking.

14:00

And D,

14:02

D, we're gonna declare the

14:04

cartels a terrorist organization and

14:07

anybody anybody who

14:10

has any commercial transactions with

14:12

them will be barred from the international banking

14:14

system. Now do you want that or not?

14:17

If you don't want that, then go

14:19

after the cartels and shut it down. And

14:21

we will help you. We will give you the word. If you

14:23

don't, but you wanna play this wink and

14:25

nod sort of kinda maybe,

14:27

then we're done with you. And the same thing should be

14:30

applied to China because

14:32

after all, China gives them the raw

14:34

product and China is

14:36

good. And the Chinese thinking

14:38

of the Communist Party in Beijing, it's a

14:40

win win situation. When?

14:43

We're killing a hundred thousand of

14:45

young Americans. This is wonderful. And

14:48

two, we're making lot of money.

14:51

Sending this to the cartels. And

14:53

we should tell the Chinese the same thing.

14:55

If you wanna do that and you wanna wage

14:57

war through proxy against the United States,

14:59

that's fine. But here's what we're going to do.

15:02

You have three hundred and fifty thousand

15:04

students. And

15:07

one or two percent of them are espinos

15:09

agents for the Beijing government. We know

15:11

that. But all of them, to the degree

15:14

that the Chinese can access

15:16

them, have to report back to

15:18

the Chinese government what they have learned

15:20

in strategic terms of value to China.

15:23

They're all gonna leave. They're all gonna

15:25

leave. Unless you stop

15:27

killing a hundred thousand

15:29

Americans. And if that's not enough, we can look

15:31

at trade policy. And we're

15:33

going to investigate will honor.

15:35

We can do a lot of things, but not with his president,

15:39

Joe Biden. And remember one thing people say, well,

15:41

Vic, that's so provocative. That's

15:43

Bella Kos. That could

15:45

be war no. No. It's

15:47

not. What is going to

15:49

cause a war? What makes us vulnerable is

15:52

a perceived weakness. Because

15:54

that will be exploited and treated with

15:58

contempt. It's not gonna be treated and

16:00

like kind. It's not people are not gonna be

16:02

magnanimous because we are. That's

16:04

dangerous. What this

16:06

what we're doing now is very dangerous

16:09

because it's going to give China and

16:11

Mexico, the idea that they can continue

16:13

and accelerate this. And,

16:15

you know, at some point, Americans are gonna

16:17

say no

16:17

mass. We're not gonna do it anymore. I'm sorry.

16:20

That's hope. I I it should be at that

16:22

point already. I think it is. And that's why

16:24

Joe Biden is suddenly looking at the border.

16:27

Yeah. You know, on Tucker,

16:29

I think the other day, he had a series

16:31

of clips or maybe it was Laura that it was

16:34

border

16:34

secure. Did you see that in New Yorkist?

16:37

Oh,

16:38

that's all sorted then. Yeah.

16:41

Harrods get border secure. Well --

16:43

Yeah. -- would you explain how it's well, it

16:46

it's secured? Yeah. And

16:48

it's it's just surreal. It's

16:50

Orwellian. There is no idea. They

16:52

destroyed it. They did it for what

16:54

reason. For a future

16:57

constituency to flip

16:59

finish flipping Nevada and Arizona.

17:03

Blue, is that it? Or

17:05

to create more constituents

17:08

for the welfare big government state,

17:11

or part of the woke industry,

17:14

I don't know what it is. They keep attacking

17:16

people who say, Oh,

17:19

you guys are white races because

17:21

you believe in the great replacements theory.

17:23

And then they go and confirm that theory

17:25

that nobody else but them have created

17:28

because they have They do believe in the great

17:30

replacements theory. Only they call it another

17:32

name. They call it quote unquote

17:34

demography is destiny, and they

17:36

brag about

17:37

it. And so, anyway,

17:40

It's an unfortunate situation. It

17:43

sure is. And very sad for those

17:45

four that went over

17:47

very unsuspecting, looking

17:50

for some probably cheaper,

17:52

of course, medical treatment. But

17:54

speaking of leaving and causing

17:56

messes caused by the left. Recently,

17:59

we learned that Walmart is its

18:02

last two stores out of

18:04

Portland because of historic theft

18:06

and that was another

18:08

story. I was wondering if you had any thoughts

18:10

on. Well,

18:12

I mean, Portland

18:14

is this supposedly liberal,

18:17

Utopian city, and it has

18:19

no it's lost its civilization. It

18:21

has no deterrence law. So

18:24

if you were Walmart and you petition the

18:27

the mayor to give us police

18:30

response, It's

18:33

worse than doing nothing. They have set

18:35

the standard that if you're a Walmart security

18:37

person and somebody walks out with

18:39

a dress, or hammer

18:41

or I don't know, food.

18:43

You can't do anything because if you detain

18:46

them, they may sue you or they may feel they were

18:48

mouth treated. If you think that's an exaggeration, there

18:51

were some very, very striking

18:53

tapes of sort of missideal

18:56

citizen. It was a woman

18:58

apparently who had had a background in security,

19:01

decided that she'd had enough and she

19:03

went to a store. I don't know if she was employed

19:06

by that store any longer or ever

19:08

was employed. Although it was

19:10

something that she knew, obviously something

19:12

about. And she stops on

19:15

tape, a couple of shoplifters, just

19:17

confront them. And

19:19

says, stop it. We know, you know,

19:21

and they start arguing with her. And then when she

19:23

says, dump it and they dump

19:25

it that out comes, a

19:28

whole bonanza of

19:30

packaged goods, and then they have

19:32

their person. They said said, no. That

19:34

too. And oh, no. No. How can

19:36

you do this to me. You're awful. You're

19:38

you're insulted and they become the

19:40

victim and then they finally pour out the second

19:43

bag and it's full of stuff. And

19:45

it's the in other words, We

19:47

have reached such a nadir in

19:49

civilizational terms that

19:51

the miscreant, the criminal can

19:54

when confronted claim victimhood and

19:57

that it's okay to steal, but

19:59

that would be if that were true, it

20:01

would un unwind

20:02

civilization. And you're gonna say,

20:05

What did, Victor? That's why I asked you the

20:07

question. That's

20:08

exactly when he was talking. Yeah.

20:10

Exactly. Yeah. There is no civilization.

20:13

There is no civilization. And it doesn't

20:16

start from the bottom. It starts from

20:18

the top. When you have a

20:20

Nicole, Hannah Jones, a sick

20:22

sixteen nineteen character when she

20:24

says right and then the heat

20:26

of hundred and twenty days of rioting

20:28

arson, looting, assault, murder, and

20:30

she says, Oh, looting is not,

20:33

not really a crime. Looting is not.

20:35

And so that's what the love feel they feel

20:37

to a distributionist project. And

20:40

unless it happens to them. And

20:42

then they become

20:44

paranoid. And so --

20:45

Yeah. -- these cities the setbacks

20:48

of what happened to Los Angeles and what

20:50

happened to San Francisco

20:52

and what happened to Chicago and what happened

20:54

to to mourn what happened to Washington, D. C.

20:56

Is not just homelessness

20:59

and crime. It was that, but it was this

21:01

particular idea that

21:03

you had a right to go in after

21:06

the George Floyd were killing

21:09

death, whatever we term it, that you

21:11

had a right to take something. And this

21:13

the people who owned that something had no

21:15

right to stop you. And once that

21:18

was tolerated or even

21:20

encouraged by laxity, then it became

21:22

epidemic. And it sure did.

21:24

Hard to stop because you'd have to really

21:27

clamp down on it. And I just don't think

21:29

that this society is up to it.

21:31

There is no such deterrence makes

21:34

the world around. It's a good Latin word,

21:36

daycareo to scare somebody

21:38

from doing something. And without

21:41

it, you have no society. You

21:43

don't have any undercurrents on the border. Mexico

21:45

is not afraid of us. The cartels

21:48

are not afraid of us. China is not

21:50

afraid of us, and the criminals

21:52

is not afraid of us, the collective American

21:54

people. And -- No. -- as we

21:56

always say, it's very hard to quire,

21:58

but it's easily given up. Howard Bauchner:

22:01

Well, Victor, the big thing I wanted to

22:03

ask you about was Tucker Carlson

22:06

has been given us by Kevin McCarthy

22:09

to the capitol videos of

22:11

the day of January six, so you had lots

22:14

of footage. And I was

22:16

and he got lots of critique. I

22:18

especially noted that Mitch McConnell

22:21

criticized Tucker for

22:23

putting out a an

22:25

alternate view to what the January

22:28

sixth had set forth to

22:29

us. But I was wondering your thoughts on that

22:32

Well, I watched

22:34

it very carefully the first two

22:36

nights, that is Monday and

22:38

Tuesday. And I'm gonna

22:40

watch it tonight. And

22:43

there were two January sixth.

22:46

There were a few

22:49

I don't know how many dozen that were

22:51

act clearly violent. They

22:54

took on the police. They pushed they were

22:56

like the May,

22:58

June, July, August, September,

23:02

two thousand twenty, and tifa BLM

23:04

people. Not quite as bad. I

23:06

mean, they didn't feel volatile cocktails.

23:08

He didn't kill people. They didn't kill thirty

23:10

five people. They didn't do two billion dollars worth

23:12

of damage. They didn't try to fire bomb

23:14

a police car. But they were guilty

23:17

of illegal trespassing, probably

23:19

some class three

23:21

felony. Okay. But there were

23:24

other people that once the thing

23:26

was open, they just

23:28

wanted around, they wanted to see the capital,

23:30

and they weren't criminals.

23:33

At all. So there were two different scenes.

23:35

But what the left did was when

23:37

we had the January sixth, they took

23:39

the latter and censored it.

23:42

And then claim that for security

23:44

purposes, they wanted to suppress all of

23:46

the tape, so you wouldn't see that. So

23:48

then when Kevin McCarthy allowed

23:51

Tucker to have access and he'll allow

23:53

other people to have it,

23:55

what did they do? They went crazy, and they

23:57

started attacking Tucker. And, I mean,

23:59

Michael Steele called him some

24:02

kind of demonic fallen angel or

24:04

something. He was

24:05

the former head of the Republican Party. Mitch McConnell,

24:07

as you said, a vacuum. But he didn't

24:09

say that everybody was peaceful. He

24:12

said the majority of the people were peaceful.

24:14

And what was very stunning

24:16

and tragic was we were told by the

24:18

New York time, but think they redid retracted

24:20

after they got as much mileage they could

24:22

after about someone's

24:24

death. Which was really

24:27

eerie and gruesome, but officer Sicknich,

24:30

it may have been related to the stress

24:32

or tension, but he did not die violently

24:34

at the hands of a Trump first and

24:36

by being bashed with a

24:39

fire extinguishment. That's what we were told. That

24:41

was just reverberated through the usual

24:43

talking points on the left. And at

24:45

the time that happened, that was

24:47

when he was out on the lines confronting

24:49

the violent protesters. He

24:52

right after that, he walked into the capital.

24:54

He's on tape. He's fine. Yes.

24:57

That was a narrative that was central. Remember

24:59

that he lay his cremated remains

25:02

were late in state. And

25:04

they had an entire celebratory a

25:08

session of Congress on his behalf.

25:10

It was proof that the

25:12

law and order right had murdered. It was a complete

25:14

lie, and then that fed into the larger lie.

25:17

That Joe Biden and

25:19

Achim Jeffries and Kamala Harris

25:22

said on anniversary that five

25:24

people had died, five police officers.

25:27

Well, none of them were

25:29

were killed. One

25:31

of them either had a stroke or an allergic

25:33

reaction to something mister

25:35

Sicknack the next day tragically so.

25:37

The other four at various periods

25:41

up to months committed

25:43

suicide. We don't know in any of

25:45

the cases that whether they committed suicide

25:47

because they were traumatized or

25:49

were they due? Did they seen a lot of things

25:52

policemen do? Suicide rate

25:54

of policeman is right up there with farmers.

25:56

And I had a neighbor who shot himself. I

25:58

had talked to him just too days

26:01

prior, a renter that was

26:04

and he shot him killed himself. I

26:06

don't know why he did, but

26:08

people do that, but to go back and then

26:10

be play doctor and say that

26:13

all of these deaths were attributed to the

26:15

stress of it. It's just it's

26:17

just bankrupt to do that.

26:19

And so they they knew

26:21

that and they knew that they did not

26:23

call witnesses they should have and lynchaining

26:25

because because the jury and the

26:28

rest of them, they understood that they did not

26:30

want any they hired a Hollywood

26:32

person to make

26:34

a collage of the January sixth

26:37

videos that we were not allowed to look at.

26:39

So when Tucker did

26:41

this, it it destroyed

26:44

the narrative. And the man with the

26:46

cow horns that we were told was a dangerous

26:48

felon and was

26:50

the architect of the entire thing

26:52

nearly is in prison now. He's a Navy

26:54

veteran. He's in prison for four years and yet

26:56

he's there in a buffoonie's fashion

26:59

walking peacefully around the rotunda

27:01

inside the capital, and

27:03

he says says a prayer for the welfare

27:05

of the policeman in faith. Thanks

27:07

them for being polite

27:10

to him. And so he doesn't what I'm

27:12

saying, Sammy, it doesn't fit the narrative

27:14

of a two thousand twenty summer antifa

27:17

BLM violent insurrection. And

27:20

for the left to to

27:22

manufacture that is just despicable.

27:25

And then when Tucker does this,

27:28

to have Schumer.

27:31

Gold onshore Chuck Schumer,

27:33

senator from New York, senator

27:35

majority leader

27:37

to say that he doesn't have a right

27:39

to do that and Fox should stop him.

27:42

And III thought to myself, you,

27:45

you, you, the man

27:48

who got in front of a mob of angry

27:50

pro abortion protesters that

27:53

would hit their hands on the on the doors

27:55

of the Springport, and you said to them,

27:57

Kavanaugh, Forrestage, you

28:00

sowed the wind, you're gonna

28:02

reap the whirlwind, you don't

28:05

know what will hit you? My

28:07

God. And then people a

28:10

few months later masked at the

28:12

at the homes illegally so

28:15

to affect a supreme court ruling,

28:17

it's a felony to do that, to protest

28:20

and get on the property of a of

28:22

a justice to influence an impending court

28:24

decision. And Mary Garda did nothing And

28:26

then finally in the sassen out of the woodwork

28:29

comes out, and he's there right there.

28:31

And he this man is lecturing anybody

28:34

on proper behavior and decor.

28:36

He should be ashamed of himself. And

28:39

so he was also the one person who told

28:41

Donald Trump when he got in the rift with the CIA

28:43

They have seven dead ways from Sunday to come

28:45

and get you. It was

28:47

that wasn't a warning in heartfelt

28:50

admonition. It was hey,

28:52

you idiot. We've got some pretty

28:54

good guys in the CIA and FBI,

28:56

and now they're gonna go after you. And

28:59

that's gonna be fun to that was the attitude

29:01

in which it was delivered. So this

29:03

guy is really I mean, the

29:06

January sixth is such a

29:08

it's it's there with the

29:09

Wuhan, you know, lab.

29:11

Lives. Yeah. All the lives.

29:14

We're all the subject. We all are subjects,

29:16

as I said, but plea to Mitchell. And

29:18

we live in the Empire of Lives. And

29:21

all of the major events of our lives, the

29:23

last two years, have been an utter and

29:25

complete July, May,

29:29

July two thousand twenty were not

29:31

peaceful. They were not peaceful.

29:33

They were one of the biggest insertionary

29:36

riots in American history as calibrated

29:39

by two billion dollars worth of damage, thirty

29:41

five to forty people killed

29:44

violently, and fifteen

29:46

hundred police officers struck arson,

29:49

federal courthouse, torch, police precincts,

29:51

George. Historic church across

29:53

in the White House torch, White

29:55

House grounds, stormed, an attempt

29:58

to get to the president, all of this

30:00

stuff. And though

30:03

we were told that the Wuhan lab

30:06

we all knew from the very beginning that

30:08

you don't find a gain of function

30:10

manufactured virus in

30:13

a wet market right

30:15

next to a level four virology

30:17

lab controlled by the Chinese

30:20

government with funding routed from

30:22

Anthony Fauci to engage in gain

30:24

or function research. And

30:26

not find one animal or

30:28

any other organism before a human

30:31

was detected with it. It was

30:33

detected, I should say, in a human, no

30:36

other previous animal example,

30:38

and then try to pass that lie off onto

30:40

us. The Mueller investigation, Donald

30:42

Trump, called up Vladimir and

30:44

colluded to fill the two thousand

30:47

complete lie or worse yet. It was

30:49

a projection because that's precisely what

30:52

he'll be Clinton did to the three paywalls. The

30:54

Atlanta laptop that it was swept into

30:56

a complete lie. Those four

30:59

things, right, voter suppression,

31:02

racism at the polls. Therefore,

31:04

we have to go from seventy percent showing

31:06

up on election day to thirty percent. All

31:08

of those were lies, and they were very effective.

31:11

They changed our lives. They still

31:13

do. And how about the other lives

31:15

that mass would give you absolute protection

31:18

that the mRNA vaccinations

31:21

were not only without side

31:23

effects, but essential to

31:26

give you lasting immunity

31:28

from infectiousness and from being infected,

31:31

and quarantines were the only viable

31:33

method to stop the epidemic,

31:36

boil all that down. And there's

31:38

one common denominator, Fauci

31:40

and Birx and the media and

31:43

the A LEFT wanted to destroy

31:45

the presidency of Donald

31:46

Trump, and they succeeded beyond their wildest

31:49

imagination. Yes. But if I can

31:51

move back to the videotapes, It

31:54

seems to me, I know you're talking about,

31:56

well, they manufacture

31:59

a view of things and use

32:01

evidence you know, sparingly

32:03

or specifically or dishonestly.

32:07

But what I noticed with Tucker's

32:10

presentation of the videotapes is that,

32:12

and I might make some of your listeners

32:14

angry, but it seems to me

32:16

he overemphasized the

32:19

peacefulness because there were things

32:21

two things. One, those

32:24

people that went into the capital had

32:26

broken a law. And, you know, we say

32:28

that all the time we say that all the

32:30

time about the border. Like,

32:31

okay. They're very nice people, but nonetheless,

32:34

they broke a law. I've never And then

32:36

if I in my lifetime, I

32:38

have never done that. So if I

32:40

go to Fresno, right? And

32:43

let's say that I

32:45

wanna go don't know. Let's

32:47

just say that I've always wanted to

32:49

go to

32:52

the Fresno Metropolitan Museum.

32:54

Right? And I go there and

32:56

there's a protest about

32:58

its failings. And

33:00

someone has opened the door. And in this

33:02

case, it was a secure It was the security

33:05

guards. I mean, Ashley

33:07

Bab and others went through a broken,

33:09

but the But

33:10

the yeah. I still can see it on Windows since

33:12

Yes. There was. That was an entry for

33:14

the violent people. But at some point,

33:17

somebody in the capital, please decided

33:19

that to avert confrontation,

33:22

maybe you should just allow people to visit,

33:24

so they did. And maybe if you were

33:26

a protester and you didn't know what had

33:28

followed before you arrived, and

33:30

you saw a policeman with a door open, you might

33:32

have thought it was open on Saturday. That's plausible.

33:35

But -- Yes. -- if you knew

33:39

that you were not supposed to be there

33:41

and that the capital was closed

33:43

and you entered the capital and

33:46

you walked around the capital It

33:48

would be as if my mythical

33:51

museum, if there was a protest

33:53

and everybody thought, okay,

33:55

we're gonna go after these people, but they opened

33:57

the dry too wouldn't go in because you're not supposed

33:59

to go in there. It's closed on Saturday.

34:01

That's my point. Yeah. That's a good

34:03

point, but that's that's called illegal illegally

34:07

parading. It's not

34:09

an violent insurrection. At

34:11

one point, we were told a violent

34:14

armed insurrection, although no one

34:16

has been found inside the capital

34:18

with firearm. Nobody's been charged

34:21

with insurrection, either conspiracy, you

34:23

know, rocketing and all that.

34:25

But, yes, convicted, I

34:27

should say, of of insurrection, violent

34:30

insurrection, So your point is

34:32

to see all these people that that Tucker

34:34

was narrating that

34:36

were peaceful and

34:39

walking around were not authorized

34:41

even though some of them

34:43

may have been invited in by

34:46

the police, but they

34:48

should have known that the police

34:50

were inviting them in to

34:53

avert a more violent confrontation

34:55

not because it was legal to do

34:58

so. That's your point.

34:59

Yes.

35:00

Yes. It's well taken. I agree with you. Yeah.

35:03

Okay.

35:04

Am I right now? Charged the ones

35:06

that did that. It's legitimate to charge

35:08

them with misdemeanors. And the mister

35:10

Manners in today's America

35:13

is they write a ticket out. It's

35:16

not for it's not for four

35:18

years in

35:18

prison. It's

35:19

not a

35:20

year of indefinite sentence.

35:22

In prison then. Yeah. Sure. It's not a

35:24

military confinement. It's not

35:27

being put at the mercy of

35:29

jailers that are prejudicial. So

35:32

that's that's something that

35:35

that the left has manufactured. I

35:37

mean, if you think about it, those

35:40

people in the crowd were mostly law

35:42

abiding, the vast majority. But

35:44

they are despised by the law. Their

35:47

despise to such a degree that

35:49

when you juxtapose that,

35:52

to what we saw with the

35:54

death and the destruction and the

35:56

looting and the arson that

35:58

they contextualized or they

36:00

said it's mostly peaceful. That

36:03

MSNBC reporter said it's mostly

36:05

peaceful white flames shot up in the sky behind

36:07

him. And that's what all that's

36:10

what gets people angry. Just

36:13

just have it symmetrical. That's

36:15

all people are asking. If January,

36:17

if the summer of love, if

36:21

that was considered not reaching

36:23

a point that

36:26

would warrant mass arrest than

36:29

January six wasn't either. And I

36:31

just say that post facto just put

36:33

in the left ledger, number of

36:35

dead, number of policeman,

36:38

injured, amount of property

36:40

damage, incidents

36:43

of arson and torturing federal

36:45

buildings on the right put in

36:47

number of people breaking in the law,

36:49

number of people injured, number of police

36:52

officers attack, kill, whatever,

36:54

and property damage. And I think you'll

36:56

see that your left hand column

36:58

dwarfs the right, but in terms of penalty,

37:01

and government reaction, the

37:04

the right door selection.

37:06

And by the way, If

37:09

a listener says yes, Victor, but this was the

37:11

iconic capital, then

37:13

I said, is the federal courthouse iconic?

37:16

Is a police precinct? Iconic

37:19

is the Saint John's Episcible Church.

37:22

Everybody knows where it is. It's right near the White

37:24

House. That's iconic. How about the White House

37:26

grounds that they tried to storm and

37:28

sent the president into a

37:30

bunker? So it's

37:32

it's too laws. To systems

37:34

of jurisprudence? Yes.

37:37

And the problem of not

37:39

executing the laws for the people that they

37:41

have arrested, Victor, we need to take a

37:43

break and come back. And if you

37:45

have any more words on this, we'll come

37:47

back to that. But otherwise, we're gonna turn to

37:49

the punic wars and and hear

37:51

a little bit about that on this Weekend

37:53

episode. Stay with us.

38:02

We're back. Victor, I didn't know if you

38:04

were quite finished with the Tucker's

38:07

video representation or

38:09

not? And do you have anything else to Well,

38:11

I just would finish with a final observation

38:14

that They

38:17

despise Tucker Carlson. They,

38:20

and no more than the never Trump people, some

38:22

of his old colleagues at the weekly standard.

38:25

And they do because he

38:28

he has an ability to point out the

38:30

hypotheses. And the cruelty

38:33

and the sheer meanness of

38:35

this elite elite left.

38:37

And he's also very critical

38:40

and you mentioned Mitch McConnell and other

38:43

Mitt Romney's of the Republican Party.

38:45

And his argument, if you follow it,

38:48

and it resonates is

38:50

that there are people who have been in politics

38:52

so long and they have

38:55

such nucrative past,

38:58

present, and future business contacts

39:00

that they're multimillionaires. And

39:03

they love to be in the center of

39:05

media attention that they don't really

39:07

care who's in power. If

39:10

you say to Mitch McConnell is your life

39:12

fundamentally difference as

39:14

majority leader or minority leader. If you

39:16

say to Mitt Romney, does it really

39:18

matter to you whether the Democrats or the Republicans

39:21

in power? Or they wouldn't I don't whatever

39:23

they say, I don't think they believe that. It's

39:26

for

39:26

them, it's just being a fixture.

39:29

You know what I mean?

39:30

That's the fact. And it's just a

39:32

nice lifestyle. You get a lot of attention.

39:34

You don't need the money because you you're fabulously

39:37

rich.

39:37

And

39:40

that you don't represent the person

39:42

out there in nowhere land that

39:44

say it says, you

39:46

know, my son wants to join the marines,

39:48

but they're going after people. It's

39:50

woke and they're trying to indoctrinate

39:53

her. My daughter's going to school

39:55

and they're teaching her that because she's

39:57

white, she's part of a pernicious terrible

39:59

racist legacy. She's only six.

40:02

My other daughter came home at

40:04

thirteen, and they're asking her if she's considered

40:07

transitioning in the school. Or

40:09

I have a small business and people walk out

40:11

with stuff, or I have to

40:13

commute to Euron every day and I can't

40:15

afford. Out here in the sidewalk,

40:17

you I can't afford five dollars

40:20

and sixty cents for gas for diesel fuel

40:22

for my work

40:23

truck. They don't care about that.

40:25

No, they sure don't. Well, let's

40:27

go ahead then and turn to the Punic

40:30

wars and Boy, lots

40:32

of questions. There are Punic wars.

40:34

think most of our listeners probably

40:36

understand that, but I don't think

40:38

we often hear what pune

40:41

how how the word Punic is

40:43

used for wars between Carthage

40:46

and Rome itself. And I

40:48

have lots of other questions, but oftentimes

40:50

in the process of you describing and

40:53

analyzing something, you you answered those

40:55

questions. So I thought maybe I'd just let you go

40:57

and talk about the Punic wars for us.

40:59

Yes. Well, Punic is a

41:03

Latin corruption of

41:07

point us in Greek, and that means

41:09

Venetian. Right? Mhmm. So

41:11

mythically, if you look at the

41:15

founding methodologies of Carthage, it

41:17

was you could see it in the book for

41:19

virtual zaniyah, that Daido the

41:21

mythical queen left Phonisha

41:24

somewhere around, don't know, eight

41:27

fifteen BC, and she

41:30

brought Phonicians over

41:32

to what is now Tunisia.

41:35

And by extension, parts

41:37

of Algeria, maybe even all the way

41:40

back to the Gulf of Serta and Libya.

41:43

Okay. And that

41:45

that word then point

41:48

us was the phoenicians at

41:50

the classical Greeks and Romans came in

41:52

contact. So Punic became

41:55

divorced from Phoenicians,

41:58

I. E. Lebanese, and

42:00

it was a word for Phoenicians inside

42:03

on settled in North Africa.

42:06

And over the centuries, it

42:09

had a it was directly affected by

42:12

hellenic culture and civilization.

42:14

So Maggio wrote treatises

42:17

in the hellenic spirit on agriculture

42:20

or many Spartan drill

42:22

masters came and trained Carthaginian

42:26

warriors. It's anybody's seen

42:28

the harbor Carthage. You can go

42:30

there today. It's about twenty miles of Punic,

42:33

very seventy miles, eighty miles

42:35

from Palermo. But my

42:37

point is that, off the

42:39

Mediterranean, that it

42:41

became very powerful and it had

42:43

a constitutional system. According

42:46

to Bolivia's and Aristotle, that

42:49

mixed system of government, which is our

42:51

own judicial executive legislative

42:53

that provides checks and balances. That

42:56

system was the key to the Roman

42:58

Republic success in

43:00

a way that the other systems of

43:02

toxicity and monarchy dictatorship didn't

43:05

work. And Carthage

43:07

had the same type of government. They had an upper

43:09

and lower house they had tribunes

43:12

or or magistrates that were acted

43:14

as judges. And they had a a

43:17

an elected or an appointed by

43:19

the senate supreme

43:22

executive. Okay. So

43:24

here we have two countries separated,

43:26

you know, by about

43:28

a hundred miles at the most. And

43:31

that famous passage

43:33

in Plutarck's life of the older cato

43:35

or cato who just hates Carthage

43:38

is saying Carthago, Delinda s. Supposedly,

43:40

he said that, I'm not sure he did, but

43:43

using the gerundic Carthage must

43:45

be destroyed. That was after

43:47

two Carthaginian Roman

43:50

wars. Okay. And then he to be

43:52

very dramatic, he put some figs. He claimed,

43:55

he claimed they were picked at Carthage,

43:57

and they got in front of the Senate and Young to Des Toga, and

43:59

they rolled out and said, see, they're fresh. They're

44:02

fresh. This is how close these minutes are.

44:04

So there was an an existential hatred

44:07

even the and they were different ethnically,

44:10

I mean, these were Phoenician Semitic peoples,

44:13

and then you had Italians that

44:15

were very different. But culturally,

44:17

they weren't that different except

44:19

there were certain things about the god ball

44:21

versus the Philippians and

44:24

of the of Rome and and one big

44:27

divisive point according to

44:30

Roman sources was a child sacrifice.

44:33

Romans had removed

44:35

that at least historically to their

44:37

ancient past, and that was ongoing in

44:40

Carthage. Nevertheless, They

44:42

were of about equal size.

44:45

And by the third century, about two million

44:47

people, and they could each put into the field about

44:49

a quarter million soldiers under duress.

44:52

Carthige was a huge sea

44:55

power. Rome

44:58

was a land power, and Rome had united

45:00

the Italian pencil and started to

45:03

move up toward this what was now

45:05

the Swiss border and even making inroads

45:08

down into Sicily. Okay. And

45:10

so they were and

45:12

strict competition. And so they

45:15

had a series of wars over a hundred and

45:17

seventeen years, essentially. We

45:19

don't really know too much

45:22

about the first one, what

45:25

we call the first punic war. And

45:28

that was two sixty four BC. The

45:30

one first one was two

45:33

sixty four. And that

45:35

would start the whole ball rolling. And then,

45:37

of course, it went on for twenty

45:39

three years to two forty one, but and it

45:41

would finally end with the third and one forty

45:43

six. But that was fought mostly

45:45

over who would own

45:48

Sicily and

45:50

Carthaginian European

45:52

possessions in southern

45:55

Spain, of course Corsica and what

45:58

what is now Sardinia. And

46:01

there was a Carthaginian empire. If

46:03

you were to look at a map, you

46:05

would see that prior

46:07

to the Punic war, what

46:10

is now the fertile coast

46:12

of Libya, much more fertile

46:15

in antiquity, and then

46:18

Tunisia and then the

46:20

coastal seaboard of Algeria

46:23

and Morocco, Gibraltar, and

46:25

then I think half of of

46:27

southern half of Spain, the southern port

46:29

was Carthaginian, and parts

46:32

of Sicily were as well,

46:35

but in comparison to the

46:37

so called Roman Republic, it was much bigger.

46:40

And they were in the descendants and so and

46:42

they didn't have a navy. The Italians.

46:45

So most people at the time,

46:48

I think, thought probably that Carthage was

46:50

going to win that war. But after twenty

46:52

three years, as we know, Rome

46:55

built a navy. And early

46:59

on, they had a a very Good

47:03

luck. I should say they defeat them at Acrogos.

47:06

And the Romans learned

47:08

how to deal with elephants. That was sort of

47:10

the tank of the ancient world. They were very volatile

47:13

weapon. The Carthaginians had a monopoly on,

47:15

point them in the right direction, but if some Roman

47:18

ran up and stuck in the zenith a Javelin

47:20

or something or spear who knows

47:22

where this tank would go to offer

47:24

on its own men. But there was

47:26

a series of battles Rome

47:29

then at the battle of Equinomas

47:31

learned how the the Corbus, the

47:34

so called hook and boarding

47:36

where they could take a huge board

47:39

with a gigantic spike in it. I shouldn't

47:41

say hook attached to

47:43

the the

47:45

Carthaginian ship and then force

47:49

it either to be unstable at

47:51

sea or to be boarded The

47:53

thing about it was that these things

47:55

are very deadly. So after the

47:57

victory at at nomeness, the

48:00

invasion force actually landed

48:03

on Carthagin, which would eventually end

48:05

the war with an armistice and

48:07

a payment that Carthagin was bound to

48:09

give and the surrender of a lot of its

48:12

European colonies. The

48:15

Romans on the way back lost one

48:17

hundred thousand sailors

48:21

off Sicily. That was a

48:23

-- Wow. -- that was the largest single

48:27

loss at sea in the history of

48:29

maritime fighting. If you could

48:31

call that aftermath fighting because it was

48:33

sea trip back from Carthage. And

48:36

that that was very important

48:38

because that showed you how

48:41

existential these wars were. When you

48:43

get down to one forty six, there's probably

48:45

three hundred and fifty thousand Romans

48:47

that die. So there's gonna be an existential

48:50

hatred. So from truth, and

48:53

then we go from number

48:56

two. And number two is what

48:58

everybody listening knows about because

49:00

that is, I guess,

49:02

we would call it, cannables war.

49:05

That's the one two eighteen to 201.

49:07

And that was a very different

49:10

campaign after defeats in

49:12

Spain, animal crosses

49:14

the Alps with, you know, maybe

49:17

forty thousand galls, so Iberians

49:20

and mercenaries, Carthaginae,

49:23

descends into Italy with

49:25

an army of only twenty thousand, but

49:27

he's sort of I don't know what

49:29

you would say. He's at the rearguard of the Italian

49:32

Republic. And in a dramatic

49:34

series of battles at the river Taikenias,

49:37

the Trivio, Lake Trust

49:40

Semini and Kainai. All within

49:42

twenty four months, he kills kills

49:46

or wounds or scatters about a quarter million

49:48

people. Kainai alone

49:50

somewhere between depending on the source,

49:52

Libya, or Utica, Libya's,

49:54

two forty thousand people,

49:57

maybe thirty five at Trasimini, and

49:59

then you talk about the people who are wounded

50:01

or left gathered about. And

50:03

at that point, Rome is unable to continue

50:06

classical warfare against the

50:08

invader, and so they turn to

50:11

one man restored, you know,

50:13

one man restored the republic. And

50:16

that's a previous MAXIMUS and

50:18

the delayer. That is he tried

50:20

to wage a war of hit and run and

50:22

a try and Hannibal is in Italy

50:25

for eighteen years. Trying

50:28

to stir up rebellion among the

50:30

city states of Italy to break

50:32

their allegiance but to to

50:35

Italy. And they don't at first, it starts to work,

50:38

and then they feel that the Carthaginians are

50:40

a little bit too different from the Italians

50:43

even though they're not really comfortable with the Roman

50:45

unification decisions.

50:49

And then in classic

50:52

fashion, genius

50:54

comes out of nowhere, Scipio Africanus. He

50:57

invades North Africa.

50:59

Since Hanold's back at the famous battle

51:01

of Zama, he crushes. Long

51:03

story, but he he should

51:05

have lost that battle. It was

51:08

slightly outnumbered. He was on He

51:10

was on Carthaginian territory.

51:12

They were foggy, but not too far from the

51:14

walls, you know, twenty miles from the

51:16

walls of Carthage. They had a military

51:19

genius and Hannibal, and yet he won.

51:21

And at that point, you

51:24

would think that he would besiege a city, but

51:26

had lost so many people in

51:28

those two wars

51:30

that there was an armistice. Okay.

51:32

201, we got to

51:33

have Go ahead.

51:35

Can I ask something about that? You

51:37

sound like because, you know, when

51:39

we think about these wars, we I

51:41

I usually assume that the Romans were

51:44

stronger. But in two cases here, you've

51:46

said they were lucky in

51:49

the first war. And then also,

51:52

that they didn't seem to do anything. Why

51:54

did why did they let Hannibal rage

51:56

about the peninsula for so

51:57

many? I mean, what why is that?

52:00

Why did they let him? Because They

52:02

were ex they had no manpower reserves.

52:05

They had created free

52:07

consular armies. The consuls had

52:09

been killed. So a tuck in as was

52:11

a modern, but when he came down into

52:14

northern Italy, at

52:16

the Trevia River, they lost, I think, ten

52:18

thousand people at TRISEMINY, they were surrounded

52:21

and annihilated. At Kainai, that was

52:23

the most costly battle, probably

52:25

in Roman history. And and you

52:27

know, some sources say sixty thousand

52:30

were killed

52:31

lot. So Catapult was just better general

52:33

than any Roman general that they were saying.

52:36

Absolutely. I mean, it's very rare in military

52:39

history for the inferior force to

52:41

create, and I should say,

52:43

to attempt and pull off a double

52:45

envelopment. That means that there

52:48

you could argue that the Atheneans almost

52:50

did it at the Battle of Marathon, but to

52:52

weaken your center to such a degree

52:54

to get enough troops to go around

52:56

the larger enemy mass and seal

53:00

the the envelope before your, you know,

53:02

it's like a balloon bursting before

53:04

your sinner collapses. You read

53:06

those subscriptions in Libya, gosh.

53:08

I mean, it's it's I

53:10

don't know if anybody remembers games, if they don't remember

53:13

the battle, the bastards where

53:16

they go out. John

53:19

Snow and they think they're winning and

53:21

then suddenly they're surrounded

53:23

by the other bastard. And

53:26

they're almost they're completely cut off. That

53:28

I think the either

53:31

the the novel or I didn't read

53:33

the novel, but the the screenwriters are

53:35

trying to emulate what's something about about.

53:38

Can I? Can I? Because in the descriptions

53:41

of Can I, there it's clear

53:43

that there's such a mouth, they're not able to

53:45

use their pilot, and they don't have

53:47

room to maneuver because they're completely surrounded

53:50

and extinguished at that point? Panable

53:53

at the gates at Portis. There should have been

53:55

a march on Rome. He probably could have taken

53:57

it, but he thought he was in the driver's

53:59

seat and then he would ravage and destroy

54:02

the cropland. Mhmm. When

54:05

I was twenty six, I wrote a book called warfare

54:08

and agriculture and classical Greeks. And

54:12

I had looked at the great historian

54:15

Arnold Pineby. He wrote a book called Hannibal's

54:17

legacy, and I didn't agree with it, and I cited

54:20

it, but in his view that

54:22

that eighteen year period

54:24

destroyed small

54:28

farming agrarianism and led to

54:31

the destruction of the family

54:33

farm and then coupled with the victory

54:36

in the Second Punic War and the loot and

54:38

the slaves that poured in really

54:40

changed the nature of the republic. I

54:43

think -- Mhmm. -- there was something to that, but his suggestion

54:45

that he, you know, it's easy to cut down

54:47

olive trees or tear out vineyards. It's

54:49

not. But anyway, that

54:52

was a a seminal moment. And

54:55

then at two thousand excuse

54:57

me. In 201, there's

55:00

an armistice and it's a very strict.

55:03

They have to pay a huge two hundred

55:05

talent indemnity and

55:07

they have to give up all their European

55:09

and Mediterranean possessions, and

55:13

they cannot make war unless

55:15

they ask the permission of a Roman Senate,

55:19

and they can only have defensive weapons.

55:22

But the problem is that even

55:24

after giving up all of those possessions, the

55:28

city has never been breached. It had the largest

55:31

municipal fortifications in the ancient

55:33

world except for Constantinople. didn't

55:36

quite have anything like the theodae decent

55:38

wall in Constantinople. Which

55:40

was the most impressive fortifications

55:43

for a thousand years. But

55:47

it was almost impossible to

55:49

breach those fort vacations of Carthage.

55:51

So at the end of the first and second, an

55:53

exhaust gome didn't try. But

55:56

this period, what

56:00

Rome did was to shekel

56:04

Carthage by making them pay this

56:06

identity, by stripping them of their tribute

56:10

income from his colonies to

56:12

and breaking away their punic

56:14

allies and new medians dash

56:17

burgers. Those are the indigenous people

56:20

that spoke a different language and were of

56:22

a different different ethnic background

56:25

than the Phoenician interlopers, even

56:27

though they were partially intermingled.

56:29

Today, when you go to Libya or Morocco,

56:32

you'll meet an aristocrat sometimes. So I'm

56:34

not an Arab. And they'll either

56:36

say I'm Namidian or I'm Roberto or I

56:38

am Phoenician. And what they mean is

56:41

that they

56:43

are from the original inhabitants

56:45

which were either Numedians or Burgers

56:48

with a different language or after

56:50

eight hundred BC, part of the

56:53

mixture between those two cultures, Punic

56:55

and Indigenous North Africa, well

56:58

before the Arabs arrived in the seventh

57:00

century, Muslims. Yes.

57:02

In any case, they had to

57:04

have permission Carthage to reply

57:07

to Numidian attacks on their farmland.

57:11

And Masanesa, who was eighty,

57:13

died. I think he was at nine year all he

57:15

did for fifteen or twenty years was carve

57:17

away the inland inland

57:19

empire and which Carthage depended

57:22

upon. So finally, The

57:25

elder Kate always in his eighties.

57:28

He says, we've got her destroyed Carthage,

57:30

and Carthage had sympathizers in

57:33

the Senate. And said, this is

57:35

crazy. Why would we have a

57:37

preemptive war against a

57:39

former enemy that's friendly and

57:42

they have no wherewithal. They can't make war.

57:45

And so while they paid their money off, now

57:47

they're gonna have money and they'll

57:49

always do it. No, that's

57:52

in their DNA. What no matter

57:54

what they do, they hate us. This

57:56

can't be resolved. Scipio

57:58

and Naskia from another branch

58:00

of the Scipio family was

58:03

not Pro Cartagena. He didn't There were

58:05

a lot of people, I I suppose, that had

58:07

the same view that a lot of conservatives do

58:09

about Ukraine. Why are

58:11

we getting involved in this overseas

58:14

nightmare? Just let the Carthaginians be

58:17

We have a long history that playwright

58:20

playwright plaudess was a Carthaginian,

58:22

apparently. There were a lot of trade

58:25

Italian traders Okay.

58:29

And one hundred and forty nine

58:31

the Romans decide to follow

58:33

the older Caito's advice. They send the largest

58:35

amphibious army

58:37

and their history, eighty thousand, and

58:40

they flipped Utica, the harbor, the

58:42

big harbor. Ten miles,

58:44

fifteen miles away, and they land. And

58:47

they have orders from the Senate to

58:50

give ultimatum. So

58:52

they give the orders to the Carthaginian

58:55

invoice. This is what you're supposed

58:57

to do. You're supposed to

59:00

renounce all war making with

59:02

any of your indigenous enemies. Even

59:05

if they start it, you can't reply, and

59:07

you've gotta give up all your weapons.

59:10

If you do that, we'll have enormous. So

59:12

they they give up all their cavalry.

59:15

They turn in all of their elephants.

59:18

They destroy their fleet. They give up their

59:20

swords. They're catapults. And

59:22

it has the opposite of fat. They

59:24

thought, well, they lost the second punic war.

59:26

They've we've been coursing

59:29

them through. Where the hell did they get all these

59:31

weapons? So they just bang them in

59:33

and droves, and all of a sudden, they won't they

59:35

send back invoice. And the Senate

59:38

said, we were, you know,

59:40

you know, I told you, those

59:42

sneaky little bastards they have. They're

59:45

not weak. They've got this huge

59:47

city. They've got this huge fleet. So

59:50

then the envoy they they Roman

59:52

send an envoy say, come on back. We have negotiate.

59:54

It's a fluid situation. And

59:57

the invoice go, we gave you everything we wanted.

1:00:00

Come on. Let's live in peace. Can

1:00:02

we you know, Rodney, can't we all get along?

1:00:05

And they said, no, no, no, no.

1:00:07

We got a new final automate

1:00:10

them. You've gotta destroy your whole city.

1:00:12

And you've gotta if you wanna stay here alive,

1:00:15

you can go back at least ten miles

1:00:17

the ocean world, you know, we're more than ten miles

1:00:19

from Austria or or no big deal.

1:00:21

They said, wait, you want to destroy

1:00:24

our city, the crown jewel of our

1:00:26

empire, such as it is,

1:00:29

it was founded in, you know, hundreds

1:00:31

of years ago, it's huge.

1:00:33

We're not gonna do that. Well, then we're attack

1:00:36

you. And then the invoice

1:00:38

come back and say, that's the ultimatum.

1:00:41

And they start attacking the invoice. How

1:00:43

dare you even insult us with that message?

1:00:46

And all the people who said you have to deal

1:00:48

with the Romans are too powerful. They kill

1:00:50

or stone. And all the firebrands,

1:00:53

one of them by the name

1:00:55

of Hannibal, the haasurable,

1:00:58

the bullshit, bull eater, he

1:01:00

says, maybe something going on because nobody

1:01:02

cares about their punic war, it seems

1:01:05

to me. It's the most fascinating

1:01:07

in some ways. And he says,

1:01:10

you put me in jail for warning

1:01:12

you about, you said I was a firebrand. I'd

1:01:14

start a war. Appeasement

1:01:16

started the war. And now you better turn

1:01:18

over the control of the government to me because

1:01:21

I will fight these guys. And he they do.

1:01:23

And what there is no third

1:01:25

punic war to speak of. There's skirmishing

1:01:28

outside the walls. There's commando

1:01:30

attacks to burn the seeds crop,

1:01:32

but it's basically a three year

1:01:35

long seeds where the Romans

1:01:38

try to cut off the

1:01:42

harbor and so that the

1:01:44

fleet, which is being rebuilt with

1:01:47

old materials, they can't get out. And

1:01:49

they're cut off from food, from the interior.

1:01:51

That takes them two years and they have two consults

1:01:54

and forty nine and another consult, and they're

1:01:56

completely incompetent. Just

1:01:59

like the Romans were prior

1:02:01

to Scipio Africanas. Now, unfortunately

1:02:04

for the Orthaginians,

1:02:07

what happens in war if

1:02:09

you were dealing with a consensual society

1:02:11

often? Somebody somebody

1:02:15

turns out that

1:02:18

eighteen sixty one, the

1:02:20

Confederacy thought, you know what? All these guys

1:02:22

were flunked flunkies at West Point.

1:02:25

We've got Stonewall

1:02:27

Jackson from VMI. We got Robert

1:02:29

Yeedley. We've got Longstreet.

1:02:32

They've got Alec, they've got

1:02:34

Maclellan, they've got

1:02:36

Burnside, they've got you

1:02:39

know, hooker, pope,

1:02:43

bunch of mediocrity. No. Eventually,

1:02:46

you'll find a Sherman and a Grant.

1:02:49

And they share it in and they

1:02:51

did. Eventually in Korea, you

1:02:53

will find a Matthew Ridgeway. Eventually

1:02:56

in World War to guy that everybody felt

1:02:58

was kinda crazy, whether

1:03:00

it's a Kurdish Lemé or George Baton

1:03:02

comes to the fore, and that's what happened.

1:03:05

There's a leggett named Scipio Amelianas.

1:03:08

He's not related by blood to Afrikaans.

1:03:10

But in the Roman

1:03:13

world, when you had a large family,

1:03:15

you would adopt let a famous family

1:03:17

give your grandson or son his

1:03:19

name, and they would be kind of like a co

1:03:21

parent. And he's adopted by

1:03:24

the Scipio's. And so

1:03:26

he's renamed Scipio Amelianus

1:03:28

and he's the son of Amelia Paulus who was

1:03:30

one of the most brilliant generals in and

1:03:32

Roman Republican history. And

1:03:34

unfortunately, he's more talented even in

1:03:36

this more famous grand step

1:03:39

adopted grandfather. And when

1:03:41

they put him in charge on the last year

1:03:43

and a half, things change, unfortunately. Now,

1:03:47

he is able to cut

1:03:49

the completely cut them cut

1:03:51

the isthmus off so they have no connection

1:03:54

with their food. He destroys their

1:03:56

second fleet. And

1:03:58

has ruble, you know, starts going

1:04:01

dessert, torturing,

1:04:03

and killing Roman captives

1:04:05

on the wall. And finally, they

1:04:08

burst into one section of the

1:04:10

wall, and they get in, and then

1:04:12

it's once the Romans are in,

1:04:15

they go they go up to the city with

1:04:17

the second interior wall to Versa, and

1:04:20

they destroy them. What do they do this time?

1:04:22

You know, well,

1:04:24

you can argue there's a first Peloponnesian war.

1:04:27

There's a second Peloponnesian war. There's no

1:04:29

third Peloponnesian war.

1:04:32

Under Darius, there's a second Persian war

1:04:34

under there's no third one. That

1:04:36

happened so often in

1:04:37

history, there's world war one, there's world war two

1:04:39

so far. What I'm

1:04:41

getting

1:04:41

at is the victors when they win

1:04:43

at some point, if this happens

1:04:46

again, they say no we're

1:04:48

not gonna go do this again. We're

1:04:50

not going to talk about Germany and

1:04:52

stab in the back and not

1:04:54

occupy it in Versailles.

1:04:57

No. No. No. No. We're gonna

1:04:59

occupy the country split into

1:05:01

no need or they that's what they did. And it

1:05:03

gave us peace. So this time,

1:05:06

they're not going to

1:05:08

allow Carthage to exist. So

1:05:11

they completely level the

1:05:13

city And

1:05:16

there were five hundred thousand people who had

1:05:18

walked into the city. They're all dead except

1:05:20

fifty

1:05:20

thousand. So they killed

1:05:24

I don't know. They killed Four

1:05:25

hundred and fifty thousand -- Eighty percent. --

1:05:27

in the population, they murdered or killed.

1:05:30

The fifty thousand had survived, they enslaved,

1:05:32

and sent them back to Italy as slaves. Then

1:05:35

they destroyed systematically. And

1:05:37

Scipio is getting, you know,

1:05:39

hey, what do you want me to do? I'm here. They

1:05:42

we want you to to

1:05:44

do what we told and and

1:05:46

we want nothing. It's not true that they

1:05:48

sold the ground with salt. That's a modern

1:05:51

mythology. I don't think

1:05:53

you can do that in farming. You know,

1:05:55

salt's too expensive to but they did

1:05:57

make the site prohibitive. It

1:05:59

was a curse to settle on it.

1:06:01

Glaukos, the oldest one,

1:06:04

I think, twenty years later, he tried to

1:06:06

make enrollment settlement there, but that

1:06:09

it didn't work. They they cut off the funding. But

1:06:11

then Caesar, hundred years later, founded

1:06:15

new carpet, nova, orthotics. And

1:06:18

that became very, very,

1:06:20

very successful. I think by

1:06:23

a hundred ADA, it was the

1:06:25

third largest city in the Roman Empire was

1:06:27

over five hundred thousand people. What

1:06:29

you see today when

1:06:31

you go there, the ruins are noble. Orthogonal,

1:06:34

the new

1:06:34

Carthage. The Roman city found it in

1:06:37

forty six or something, forty five

1:06:40

by Julius Caesar. That

1:06:42

was the end of that was the end of everything.

1:06:44

That was end of it. There was no more. Nothing.

1:06:47

Yeah. That was the end of punic culture, and

1:06:49

people say, wow. There's puny

1:06:51

conscriptions. Yeah. That's

1:06:54

always a remnant, but cohesive

1:06:57

identifiable culture that no helps

1:06:59

the end of it. Yeah. Yeah.

1:07:02

Well, Victor, we need to take our last

1:07:04

break and then come back and

1:07:06

we can finish up with Carthage if

1:07:08

you have more to say. Or

1:07:10

I have a story

1:07:13

about the University of North Carolina

1:07:15

creating a new school of

1:07:18

civic life on their campus and

1:07:20

some dispute about that. So

1:07:22

stick with us and come back after

1:07:25

these messages. We're

1:07:32

back, Victor. So

1:07:34

III don't know if you were finished with

1:07:36

Carthage. It sounded like I always wondered

1:07:39

about that that they had spread

1:07:41

salt. I I know that in

1:07:43

the middle

1:07:45

not one ancient passage that

1:07:46

That says that No. It was created it was

1:07:48

created in the nineteen eighteenth century.

1:07:51

Oh, wow. And it may be out of a renaissance

1:07:53

sores. And somebody had misinterpreted

1:07:56

the idea of a ritual pollution of the

1:07:58

soil, pollution in the metaphorical sense.

1:08:01

Yeah. They thought with that. And became

1:08:03

just everybody. It said that there's a whole series

1:08:05

of articles I remember written twenty

1:08:08

years ago back and forth about

1:08:09

it.

1:08:10

They do have salt mines in

1:08:12

North Africa that we know that in the Middle

1:08:14

Ages. As you know, if anybody is driven

1:08:17

on the west side of California, you can see what

1:08:19

happens when oil become selimized.

1:08:22

Yeah. It's worthless. And

1:08:24

but that was not true. And

1:08:29

you know, it's it's a very

1:08:31

iconic idea because at the end

1:08:33

of Carthage one hundred and forty six,

1:08:35

it was simultaneous with the

1:08:37

destruction of Corinth. As

1:08:39

I said earlier, when you're excavating, I

1:08:42

said that with Jack, we've talked about an article

1:08:44

in a rope. When you're excavating

1:08:46

in Corinth, and you go

1:08:49

through these levels of, you know, modern

1:08:51

Greece, Byzantine Greece, Roman

1:08:53

Greece, Republic, empire,

1:08:56

then you get down the Republic, you get to quaranth,

1:08:58

then right around what would be

1:09:01

if you were more exact, one forty six,

1:09:03

you can see a burn level. It's black.

1:09:05

It's about four inches wide. And

1:09:08

that was the destruction by Geismumia. So

1:09:11

in that same year, carthige

1:09:14

and corinth were destroyed.

1:09:16

I don't mean defeated. I mean,

1:09:19

wiped out the building's level

1:09:21

of people were and that that was new for Rome.

1:09:24

Yeah. You know, Philip and Mastodon had done it.

1:09:26

Alexander had done it. But that was

1:09:29

considered then the end, the

1:09:31

official end in

1:09:33

some Europeans of the hellenistic period.

1:09:35

Most people say it was destruction,

1:09:38

you know, the battle back to him and the end of Egypt,

1:09:40

and the end of a greek tolimate

1:09:43

culture in the eastern Mediterranean. But

1:09:45

whether you believe that it was the

1:09:47

final death knell, the hellenistic world. One hundred

1:09:50

and forty six marked a radical

1:09:52

change, at least symbolically

1:09:54

enrollment, Republican --

1:09:57

Yeah.

1:09:58

-- policies and agendas from now on, they're gonna

1:10:00

be an imperialistic power, and

1:10:02

they're going to divide and conquer. And then when

1:10:05

they take over a country, they're

1:10:07

gonna allow it to have

1:10:09

its own customs to pay tribute.

1:10:11

But if they cross from, they're gonna not gonna defeat

1:10:13

them. They're gonna wipe them

1:10:14

out. Like, they give -- Mhmm. -- think about

1:10:17

it. That's true. Yeah. So

1:10:19

after the Punic wars, all the momentum

1:10:22

was on Rome's side as far

1:10:24

as the request.

1:10:26

They have the ability now to do

1:10:28

two things. They don't have to worry

1:10:30

about the Western Mediterranean and

1:10:32

any enemy fleet. So they're

1:10:34

going in their Western Mediterranean. So

1:10:36

they're going to turn their attention to

1:10:39

Asian Methadetes and

1:10:41

metallamines in Egypt. Number

1:10:43

one, and grease

1:10:46

itself after the destruction of

1:10:48

of the Macedonian kingdoms, which

1:10:51

they have accomplished. And with corinth and the eighteenth

1:10:53

leg out of the way, The whole Eastern

1:10:55

Mediterranean will get their full attention, and

1:10:57

now they will have the resources to

1:11:01

all of this tribute huge

1:11:04

fertile lands come under their control

1:11:06

in North Africa from Carthage, and

1:11:08

they're gonna go into Spain and Gaul

1:11:11

in the next century. Yeah.

1:11:13

So that it's and it's not

1:11:15

gonna I mean, Julius Caesar, we were

1:11:17

told that he killed a million

1:11:20

golf, French people, and he killed

1:11:22

he enslaved a million and enslaved

1:11:24

a million. So it's it's they take the gloves off

1:11:26

is what I'm saying. And

1:11:28

it's no longer the Republic of,

1:11:31

you know, the glauci or and you

1:11:33

get certain people who don't

1:11:35

wanna buy into a lexatorious becomes

1:11:37

an outlaw, but it it's different. It's the

1:11:39

beginning, at least in Bolivia's view,

1:11:41

the great historian who was at Carthage

1:11:44

in the third war, he felt

1:11:46

that it marked the beginning of

1:11:48

roman imperialism. There's lot of

1:11:50

historical, you know, and

1:11:52

and historians like Appian,

1:11:55

they have a lot of warnings about

1:11:57

what romans become after Carthage.

1:11:59

And, you know, it's kind of a type

1:12:01

scene that when a Roman commander destroys

1:12:03

something, because they're

1:12:06

they're unanimous, wonderful people.

1:12:08

They have to shed crocodile

1:12:11

jeers. So here's to skeletal

1:12:13

saying, you know, torch the damn city,

1:12:16

kill everybody, enslave the

1:12:18

rest, level it, oh,

1:12:20

I'm looking at it in smoke now.

1:12:22

And I'm it's so sad. It's

1:12:24

all raised to that line and be

1:12:26

iliad about Troy. And one day,

1:12:29

when Hector remembered he's confronted

1:12:31

and Kelly said one day, you

1:12:34

know, you're gonna be shot, and

1:12:36

then earlier, one day helium will fall,

1:12:39

will fall, and skeptical.

1:12:42

I just wonder whether that line

1:12:44

of home or at one day, William will fall

1:12:47

is when it was spoke,

1:12:49

you know, one day you

1:12:51

know, payback, karma, paybacks,

1:12:54

a bitch, karma, nemesis. I wonder

1:12:56

if this what I'm watching is going

1:12:58

to presage the end of us

1:13:01

So bad about it. It's so bad.

1:13:03

You have a bound letter. That's so

1:13:05

funny about that's why I like Roman literature.

1:13:08

It's so predictably. I

1:13:12

don't know what it is in parallel. Utilitarian

1:13:14

as well, but that is it's it's with

1:13:17

this veneer that we we

1:13:19

were enslaving you for your own good.

1:13:22

We enslave you and you

1:13:24

become part of us and

1:13:26

we give you purple telcos. You have your

1:13:28

little and we give you Hapius Corpus,

1:13:30

some aqueducts, a nice little

1:13:32

coliseum, and you're part of the team. In

1:13:35

the back house. Yeah. And who would not

1:13:37

want that? Now if you don't want it,

1:13:40

you're free to say no, but we're gonna

1:13:42

kill every one of you. And put

1:13:44

your wife and everybody in slaves. It's up to

1:13:46

you. And that's sort of and most

1:13:48

people opt out that Brilliant

1:13:51

Scott is he is Scott or what is he

1:13:53

He's kind of a northern Englishman, Kalagas.

1:13:56

Kalagas is in Tassas at

1:14:00

Gricola, I think. He says, they make it

1:14:02

a desert and call it peace.

1:14:07

That's the wrong way.

1:14:09

There we go. And that's the end of

1:14:11

our Punic wars. So Let's turn

1:14:13

it on. A nice adjective, you know, at the

1:14:15

end of World War two, the Secretary of Treasury,

1:14:17

Morganfell. You know, everybody

1:14:19

didn't know what to do in Germany. And

1:14:22

they had discussed it at Paul's time. He said, I got

1:14:24

a really good idea. We got to go full Carthaginian.

1:14:27

I don't know what full car.

1:14:29

The genuine was destroying the entire

1:14:32

rear rally industrial quarter,

1:14:34

giving all the stuff the machines

1:14:36

and the factories to the French and

1:14:39

the Russians who had suffered. And then making

1:14:42

destroying the German government I. E.

1:14:44

Unified Germany to go back pre eighteen

1:14:47

seventy one and make it an agrarian

1:14:50

and pastoral people where they had

1:14:52

no municipalities or industry. That was

1:14:54

the idea. Even secretary of the

1:14:56

treasury, and then, you know, everybody

1:14:58

was outraged. And Roosevelt

1:15:02

kind of bought into it for a

1:15:03

while. And then Churchill said, this is

1:15:05

this is a crime. You can't do this. Come on.

1:15:09

It's fine. You're reminding me of that movie

1:15:11

patent when they have patent in Northern

1:15:13

Africa and he goes out to those Carthaginian

1:15:16

ruins. What is What is that? He

1:15:18

and he has some ideas.

1:15:20

Example.

1:15:20

Yeah. Yeah. Some ideas that he was because he

1:15:22

places me is. Yeah. So that need to

1:15:24

show you, because he don't have to show me I was here.

1:15:28

I don't know whether he many was a Roman

1:15:30

pref Prefect, or he was on Hannibal's

1:15:32

general staff, or he was Hannibal, or he was

1:15:34

Scipio. I don't know but

1:15:36

he didn't. You know, you can read

1:15:38

Martin Blumenthal's, the patent

1:15:41

papers or parts of

1:15:43

that little after he died, his

1:15:45

wife kinda made a collage of some of his

1:15:47

sayings, the war as I

1:15:49

knew it. There's

1:15:52

a Martin Blumenthal also wrote a very good

1:15:54

biographies, as did a lot of

1:15:56

derogatory. And there's

1:15:58

been a lot there's only been one I won't get into

1:16:00

it. One bad biography. But

1:16:03

In all of those, there's enough evidence to

1:16:05

show you. I think that Patton

1:16:07

really did believe in

1:16:08

reincarnation. Yeah.

1:16:11

Yeah. He wrote a call about it.

1:16:13

Well, Victor, we're right at the end, and I think

1:16:15

what I'll do is save for our next

1:16:18

podcast that because it's not going

1:16:20

anywhere the story of this new

1:16:22

school for civic life at the University

1:16:24

of New York online. You mentioned to me, is it

1:16:26

last time or did you email me? You had

1:16:29

a angry leader that was angry at

1:16:31

something I but we'll do that next

1:16:32

time. I you know yeah. Let's do that

1:16:34

next time. Yes. There was a reader

1:16:37

who was wondering if you could because

1:16:39

of your statistics about black crime.

1:16:42

Yes. Well, I mean, this is what they watch. Let's

1:16:44

do it, actually, because it'll probably be short.

1:16:46

Okay. Your your statistics

1:16:48

about black crime were for

1:16:52

murder and trying

1:16:55

to think he said another thing you said. But if

1:16:57

you take those two out

1:16:59

that the statistics

1:17:02

show that whites have more

1:17:05

commit more crimes

1:17:07

than than blacks

1:17:10

do. And that I'm

1:17:12

trying to think what his point was was

1:17:14

that you

1:17:16

I thought about it. And I know where

1:17:18

you're going. Representing your misrepresent

1:17:20

he's he saw it as misrepresented my

1:17:22

reader, whoever you are, if you're listening.

1:17:25

Sammy didn't tell me all. That's all I need to know.

1:17:27

You haven't told me about this. I just know you said

1:17:29

I had an angry weird. Okay. White

1:17:31

collar crime. What does that

1:17:33

mean? Yeah.

1:17:35

That's right. He said. Yes. If white

1:17:37

collar prime because you say the statistics,

1:17:39

there's other criminals that are overrepresented.

1:17:42

If you're talk are you talking about stock fraud?

1:17:44

Are you talking about a massive, that's California

1:17:47

fraud, to steal COVID

1:17:49

relief funds? Or you call are

1:17:52

you talking about a master plan

1:17:54

to have gone with Social Security payments?

1:17:56

Well, I think white collar

1:17:58

means any type of crime that's not

1:18:00

physical and involve some

1:18:03

clerical, secretarial, administrative,

1:18:07

not legal knowledge, right, how

1:18:09

to beat the system without strong

1:18:11

arming somebody. That's But

1:18:13

if you look at it and you look at because

1:18:15

I looked at this very carefully. I was very careful of

1:18:17

what I wrote. And believe

1:18:19

or not, so called

1:18:22

white It is true that males are

1:18:24

overrepresented clearly in most

1:18:26

categories of white crime, but whites are

1:18:28

not. In fact, they're slightly underrepresented,

1:18:31

about six sixty percent to sixty five

1:18:33

percent depending on the category are

1:18:35

committed by white males. And I think

1:18:37

if you look at massive welfare fraud

1:18:39

schemes, or what we saw in

1:18:42

Minnesota with at least some mollies

1:18:44

about the

1:18:46

COVID relief or what you've seen here in

1:18:48

California with hundred million dollars.

1:18:51

You can see that it's an equal opportunity. Okay?

1:18:54

So when somebody says, well, you're concentrating on

1:18:57

African American males

1:18:59

being overrepresented, but you

1:19:01

don't look at white people. No. They're not

1:19:03

overrepresented in white collar climb.

1:19:05

That is a stereotype racist attitude.

1:19:08

Just because you think and it's a kind of

1:19:10

reverse rate. I mean, you think that white people are

1:19:12

not capable of committing violent crime or

1:19:15

only they have the ability to outsmart the system

1:19:17

without your racist simple vacation is.

1:19:19

No. But they they they are not overrepresented.

1:19:22

It's right near their demographic, slightly

1:19:25

underrepresented. When you go to

1:19:27

the most important cases of

1:19:31

assault, that is

1:19:33

strong armed robbery assault,

1:19:36

murder, manslaughter. African

1:19:39

Americans commit somewhere

1:19:41

between fifty and it's gone up. In

1:19:43

the case of murder to sixty percent of

1:19:45

those. And so you're talking,

1:19:49

and these are a little bit different than white

1:19:51

collar crime demography in the sense

1:19:53

that these are not committed very much

1:19:55

if at all statistically by

1:19:58

women. Or by people

1:20:00

who are older. White collar crime, you have people

1:20:02

in her seventies and eighties do

1:20:04

it. Female real estate agents

1:20:06

do it. You know what I mean?

1:20:07

Yeah. Supposed. In these

1:20:09

categories of violent crime, they

1:20:11

are

1:20:13

overwhelmingly overrepresented African

1:20:16

American males between the

1:20:19

ages of fifteen and forty

1:20:22

make up somewhere between three

1:20:25

and four percent of the population.

1:20:27

In other words, twelve percent to thirteen

1:20:29

percent are African Americans, roughly

1:20:31

half of that is six to seven,

1:20:33

roughly half of that is in that age

1:20:36

group. Yes. You might even

1:20:38

wanna go down to fourteen. And

1:20:41

So three or four percent of the population

1:20:44

are committing fifty percent of

1:20:46

the violent crime in major categories. And

1:20:48

when you look at hate crimes, And

1:20:51

this is very controversial because the Asian

1:20:53

community, at least, that votes

1:20:56

typically about sixty five to seventy

1:20:58

percent democratic, has

1:21:00

not been forthcoming about this if one

1:21:02

one asked about it. It's spokesman that

1:21:05

overwhelmingly Asians

1:21:09

themselves are underrepresented in hate

1:21:11

crimes. Whites are underrepresented

1:21:14

in hate crimes are especially

1:21:17

toward Asians. Overwhelmingly Asians

1:21:19

that are involved as victims and hate crimes

1:21:22

are attacked by African. Overwhelmingly,

1:21:25

I mean, in this sense, that that

1:21:27

three percent to five percent is

1:21:31

three to six to eight times more

1:21:33

likely to have committed it. And when you talk

1:21:35

about interracial crimes, which

1:21:37

to be must be noted is only about

1:21:40

five or six percent of all

1:21:42

violent crimes. But when they are

1:21:44

between races, African Americans

1:21:46

and that rubric. Not women,

1:21:49

not older African Americans, but

1:21:51

fourteen to forty commit about

1:21:55

six times more are

1:21:57

there six times more likely to attack

1:21:59

somebody outside their race than to be attacked

1:22:01

by somebody from a different race? That

1:22:04

your reader should know as a facts. I

1:22:06

have no dog in that fight.

1:22:08

I don't really care what the implications. So

1:22:10

I'm just saying to you that empirically,

1:22:13

if you want to stop crime in America and

1:22:16

reduce it, then it seems very

1:22:18

logical that one of the people that

1:22:20

you would look at and maybe it would

1:22:22

be greater more education or more two

1:22:24

parent families or more whatever

1:22:27

from, you know, tough to Punic,

1:22:29

whatever your approach is you

1:22:31

wouldn't solve the problem unless you'd

1:22:33

looked at three percent to five percent of the population

1:22:36

that was responsible for forty, fifty,

1:22:38

sixty in some cases of murder. And

1:22:41

manslaughter. You you wouldn't you wouldn't

1:22:43

have a policy that would be effective unless you address

1:22:45

that. And yeah, you can't talk about

1:22:47

In fact, what I just said, I know

1:22:50

I know that I will have someone

1:22:52

that's a Stanford alumnus. Listening

1:22:55

to this, he'll write and say, how how come he

1:22:57

this university hires this man working when he's

1:22:59

at races? Just for Yeah. Because it happens

1:23:02

to a good friend of mine, Heather

1:23:04

McDonald. Every time she writes and produces

1:23:06

data, she's called a racist, racism

1:23:09

being defined in the following. Yes,

1:23:11

that statistic may be true, but the fact

1:23:13

that you bring it up means that you wanted to

1:23:15

use it to intimidate people.

1:23:18

Or racist purposes. So you're supposed to forget

1:23:20

it. And yet, if you forget

1:23:22

it, then you end up with the Iranian situation

1:23:25

that we're in now. And everybody

1:23:27

listening to this knows that this is a very dangerous

1:23:30

trend that when you go online,

1:23:33

I'm not talking about a right wing blog.

1:23:35

I'm talking about a major Reuters

1:23:38

AP. You name it

1:23:40

story. To

1:23:42

the degree that they allow comments, some

1:23:44

of them don't. But to the degree they do

1:23:46

it, when you read the comments, and

1:23:49

these are not exclusively conservative

1:23:51

leaders. Conservative

1:23:54

readers were more apt to, but they're not exclusive

1:23:56

in these cases. When they report

1:23:58

violent crimes and African Americans

1:24:01

the people will comment and

1:24:03

they will say things like you didn't identify you

1:24:05

didn't show a picture or you didn't identify

1:24:08

the names or something like that.

1:24:10

But my point is that you're encouraging this

1:24:12

extremism in the comments because

1:24:14

you're not being reasonable and

1:24:17

empirical and data driven in the

1:24:19

story. So it enrages people

1:24:21

and all you do is further radicalize people

1:24:24

and say, wow, we're not

1:24:26

gonna tell the truth about this. They're

1:24:28

and then they get angrier and angrier. You'd

1:24:30

be much better off by saying, this is the

1:24:32

data, this is the truth. Let's

1:24:35

argue about it. Let's just say it's a legacy

1:24:37

of Jim Crow. It's a legacy of racism

1:24:39

if you want. It's a legacy of one

1:24:41

parent households. It's a legacy of the

1:24:43

great society. We can bring

1:24:45

in professor Kandi

1:24:48

if you want. You can quote Tom, he's

1:24:50

quote Shelby Steel. Tom, but let's

1:24:52

have that discussion if you want to reduce quant

1:24:54

and it won't. And it won't. So what

1:24:56

you do is radicalize people. And

1:24:58

then we have the talk, you know, every

1:25:01

every African American Jack and I gives

1:25:03

a talk about how racist white

1:25:05

Americans and how you have to be careful with the police.

1:25:08

And, you know, there is a talk that other people

1:25:10

say too, and that is do not go into particular

1:25:12

neighborhoods that have high crime rates

1:25:15

whether or not they're black. And

1:25:18

so that's where we're headed.

1:25:20

And I think according to polls,

1:25:22

I shouldn't say, I think. I just saw one

1:25:25

that showed do you think racial

1:25:27

relations are good, getting

1:25:30

better, or worse? Thirty

1:25:33

about thirty three percent

1:25:36

think they're good and it's

1:25:39

about equal between blacks and whites

1:25:41

and down below that for getting better

1:25:44

and the graph goes downward when that question's

1:25:46

been asked each year.

1:25:49

And so whatever we're doing right now

1:25:52

were polarizing America into two

1:25:54

racial groups. And I

1:25:56

have a feeling it's do

1:25:58

not to anything other

1:26:01

than race race race race race, race,

1:26:04

separate, separate, plusy

1:26:06

versus Ferguson and Liberal close.

1:26:09

Separate graduations, separate theme houses,

1:26:12

separate safe spaces, you

1:26:15

name it. And

1:26:17

higher by race, higher by appearance, bring

1:26:20

up and then two asymmetrical

1:26:23

forms of tolerance. So go

1:26:25

on the view and say, you know, Trump

1:26:27

voters are

1:26:30

voting for

1:26:30

him. It's like bugs going to be

1:26:33

sprayed by rate. Stuff

1:26:35

like that. Yes.

1:26:36

And then the other fact is that when

1:26:39

there is patently racist rhetoric,

1:26:43

There's no consequences for it, Joe

1:26:45

Biden. Put you all back and change.

1:26:47

Hey, junky. Hey, junky.

1:26:50

Hey, you ain't black? Hey

1:26:52

boy. Hey boy. That's what he says.

1:26:55

Yeah. I know. Bon Pop! Oh, I little

1:26:57

black kids looked at my golden hair or

1:26:59

my tan legs wanted to touch it.

1:27:02

Cute little you know, or, hey, Barack Obama

1:27:04

is the first clean articulate what. Can

1:27:06

you imagine that? Absolutely.

1:27:09

Patently racist. Nobody

1:27:11

says anything in the left wing black community

1:27:13

about that. And then if you

1:27:15

really wanna stop the n word, which

1:27:17

is a racist terrible word, then just stop

1:27:20

it. Don't say it's

1:27:22

a term of endearment or

1:27:24

chiding or it's used jockels,

1:27:26

but only among African American because

1:27:29

if that were true, then this

1:27:31

the rap hip hop singer would say,

1:27:34

I think this song should only be

1:27:36

heard by African Americans who are in

1:27:38

on the proper use of this word

1:27:40

by members of the community. But since

1:27:42

I wanna make a lot of money and

1:27:44

I wanna sell it to two hundred million

1:27:47

young people, I'm

1:27:49

going to regularize or

1:27:51

normal wise the use of that

1:27:53

word, because there's gonna be some people out there

1:27:55

that says j z said that Kendrick

1:27:57

Lamar said that Daniel

1:27:59

West said

1:28:00

that You know? They all say

1:28:02

-- Of course. -- new dog says it.

1:28:04

He says it and he's blog. I can say it.

1:28:06

But this whole thing is in need

1:28:08

of some honest talk that tries to

1:28:10

be economical and bring people

1:28:12

together rather than just to

1:28:15

take the left's divide and conquer

1:28:17

divide and conquer divide. Yes.

1:28:20

Yes.

1:28:21

And that's all, as they say, in person, and

1:28:23

that's all there is. That's the top

1:28:25

of that. And that was that.

1:28:28

And that kind of brings

1:28:30

us back to what I felt

1:28:32

was I think Tucker needed

1:28:36

to somehow

1:28:38

not make his so opposite of

1:28:41

the January. So to somehow acknowledge

1:28:44

that, yeah, the Christmas or violence done,

1:28:46

I I don't think he

1:28:47

did. Let

1:28:48

me interpret what you're saying till I can

1:28:50

We're

1:28:51

gonna get our listeners mad. Well, not in the

1:28:53

same room with you, so I can't

1:28:55

see you. I'm not watching the video

1:28:57

of you. So I am assuming you're saying

1:29:00

something like the following. You

1:29:02

can't The capital is

1:29:05

an iconic place. It

1:29:07

has value that supersedes its

1:29:10

government function. It

1:29:12

has to be sacrosanct. Everything

1:29:14

is sacrosanct, but it is especially So

1:29:16

even if the doors are open, and

1:29:19

even if the police are

1:29:21

welcoming people in during hours

1:29:23

that are otherwise for him, but I I don't

1:29:25

know that for a fact, but I assume that they were

1:29:28

at that time. But

1:29:30

they might not somebody's gonna listen say, Victor,

1:29:32

it was it was Victor's hour. All they

1:29:34

did was go in, okay, then I stand corrected.

1:29:36

But what you're saying is that people

1:29:39

should say, if you

1:29:41

were one of the peaceful assemblers and

1:29:45

you went in there, then

1:29:47

you should have understood that

1:29:49

there was a potential for misuse

1:29:52

of that privilege. There were too many people

1:29:54

in there at once. They were going

1:29:56

into places that are restricted. And

1:29:59

even though they were a fine outstanding citizen,

1:30:02

that's a misdemeanor. So

1:30:04

Tucker should have said, these are people who

1:30:06

committed a misdemeanor, if that was true.

1:30:09

So that is that your argument? Yeah.

1:30:12

That there should be some acknowledgement that

1:30:15

once or maybe maybe you seemed

1:30:17

to be saying you might be

1:30:19

wrong, Sammy, because

1:30:21

you're you it might be that

1:30:23

this was no misdemeanor to walk in

1:30:26

I don't know what it is. I know that they have a thing

1:30:28

called illegal parading. I

1:30:31

never heard of it, but they have charge people

1:30:33

with illegally parading.

1:30:35

don't know if that means

1:30:37

parading as a violation of entering

1:30:39

a building that is not usually open during

1:30:42

those hours or means that there

1:30:44

were too many people in the area

1:30:46

at once. But

1:30:49

if illegal parading is a

1:30:51

charge that Mary Garden is gonna

1:30:53

use, then what is that

1:30:55

stuff at going on

1:30:58

during the

1:31:00

Kavanaugh hearings. When you saw people

1:31:03

burst into those hallways and follow

1:31:06

individual senators into elevators.

1:31:09

What was that all about? Or pop up

1:31:11

during the hearings and shout and disrupt them. I

1:31:13

don't think they were ever prosecuted. By

1:31:16

and that was during the Trump era. So

1:31:19

I think it's just symmetrical and

1:31:21

so we'll see. That's

1:31:24

besides the question, when

1:31:26

you say there was no irregularities if

1:31:29

anybody were to say that in two thousand

1:31:32

twenty, the question is

1:31:34

not, were there enough irregularities to

1:31:37

change the outcome of a vote? I mean,

1:31:39

Georgia eleven thousand, that was a

1:31:41

Torya's phone call supposedly. I

1:31:44

don't know that, but to say there were

1:31:46

no irregularities when California

1:31:48

has announced that they cannot

1:31:50

account for ten million ballots

1:31:54

that were mailed out to various residencies

1:31:56

and they don't know what happened whether they were

1:31:58

used or they were lost or

1:32:00

they were, who knows, duplicated? Yeah.

1:32:03

Yeah. And there's no way to

1:32:06

and then to also say, well, wait a minute.

1:32:08

There was a concerted effort in

1:32:10

February, March, April, May,

1:32:13

June of two thousand twenty under the

1:32:15

COVID lockdown veneer

1:32:18

using that as excuse to change

1:32:22

voting laws either by judicial decision

1:32:25

by cherry picking liberal judges

1:32:27

by these usually funded, what,

1:32:30

true to vote, integrity project,

1:32:33

that kind of stuff. To

1:32:35

say, are you got sympathetic

1:32:38

governors? Or you got sympathetic bureaucrats?

1:32:41

Just do things such as Oh,

1:32:44

felons should be really that that laws

1:32:48

wrong. Felons should be able to vote or

1:32:53

third party harvesting is fine

1:32:55

even though this particular statute and

1:32:57

this particular state outlaws it or your

1:32:59

name doesn't really have to be matched by the register's

1:33:01

name or you can turn in the ballot ten

1:33:04

days late or you can only have your

1:33:06

first name or the address

1:33:08

doesn't have to be your residents.

1:33:12

I think Killead

1:33:14

Mitchell's group is we talked I

1:33:16

talked to her this morning eighteen thousand, voter

1:33:19

registrations did not list their required

1:33:22

home residence as the place where they

1:33:24

resided nor and that was

1:33:26

illegal. But So there were there

1:33:28

were legitimate worries

1:33:30

that need to be corrected in the next next

1:33:32

election. Yeah. And that that

1:33:35

might warrant a peaceful demonstration,

1:33:38

but -- Yes. -- I think

1:33:40

Donald Trump, when he said you

1:33:43

now can go to the capital and let

1:33:45

your representative know and do

1:33:48

it peacefully and periodically

1:33:51

was naïve. My

1:33:53

e because it was going to send

1:33:55

a message to some of his supporters that

1:33:59

he might not have really meant that or wasn't emphatic

1:34:02

enough. He should have said the following.

1:34:05

We need to show that we believe

1:34:07

there was the regulators

1:34:09

in the election. However, of

1:34:12

such large number, if you want to

1:34:14

demonstrate, do not

1:34:17

under any circumstances break

1:34:19

the law or enter grounds that are

1:34:21

normally off limits to the public. He just

1:34:23

said that. I think we wouldn't

1:34:25

be in this situation right now, but he didn't.

1:34:28

Yes. But then again Who

1:34:31

can foresee all that? And somebody's

1:34:33

listening say, well, Victor, you just gave the case

1:34:35

where their irregularities in very close

1:34:37

election. So what what he's supposed

1:34:39

to

1:34:39

do. And

1:34:40

I can see that too. But the

1:34:42

problem with the left is that they keep pushing

1:34:44

it. If you keep telling people, that,

1:34:47

yes, your state legislature has

1:34:49

a law that says you have to have an

1:34:51

ID, but but we

1:34:53

know in our superior morality. That

1:34:55

that's racist. And we're gonna sue sue sue

1:34:58

sue to get it thrown out. And

1:35:00

then you're gonna get a reaction to people

1:35:02

-- Yeah. -- because they know it's not racist.

1:35:04

And we know that because African Americans

1:35:07

poll just like anybody else that

1:35:09

they think an ID would be valuable and

1:35:12

necessary to vote if you have to cash it check

1:35:14

as a voting. So much much

1:35:17

more unimportant than casting a check.

1:35:20

We're going to a basement --

1:35:21

No. -- at times. And

1:35:23

show show an idea to get into the

1:35:25

Hoover senior comments. You're

1:35:27

telling me that at my own institution

1:35:29

when I wanna go have coffee,

1:35:31

I have to pull out my ID and swipe it.

1:35:34

Or if somebody sees me swiping it

1:35:36

and it doesn't work, then I show

1:35:39

them the ID who I am for them to

1:35:41

let me into a coffee house, but

1:35:44

I don't have to do that to both. It's

1:35:46

ridiculous. It's ridiculous.

1:35:49

And,

1:35:49

yes, the mail invalid I

1:35:51

don't think people are gonna get It's too subject

1:35:53

to because -- Yeah. -- they don't I

1:35:56

think they wish that

1:35:58

given what happened was January six,

1:36:01

given that January six, how much ammunition

1:36:03

and distortion and propaganda

1:36:05

that event was used by the left. They

1:36:07

wish it had not happened. Yeah.

1:36:10

Because all you did was hand the left

1:36:13

a weapon. And somebody gonna

1:36:15

say, well, they handed us a weapon because

1:36:17

they ride it for hundred and twenty days, and

1:36:19

that didn't work, did it. So maybe they should

1:36:22

seek get that's the other attitude. But

1:36:25

it's it's such a weird thing to listen

1:36:27

to Chuck Schumer. About

1:36:30

January sixth in Tucker

1:36:32

Carlson when a hundred and

1:36:35

twenty days of riot

1:36:37

murder may have. Arsen

1:36:40

muting, and he doesn't say one

1:36:42

word. And he knows that those

1:36:44

people, fourteen thousand arrests, I

1:36:47

think it was one or two percent were

1:36:49

convicted of anything. Try

1:36:52

to bring down a priest. The police precinct

1:36:54

when their police in

1:36:55

it.

1:36:56

You know, I was in Minneapolis, I think --

1:36:58

Yeah. -- tornado, how about the two, quote

1:37:00

unquote, law students that threw a fire

1:37:03

bomb on a police car with the police in

1:37:05

it? Yeah. So, I mean, come

1:37:07

on. Or or what was it called

1:37:09

Chaz, the free zone in Seattle?

1:37:12

Three people -- Yeah. -- three people were killed.

1:37:15

And did I what if just

1:37:17

imagine, what if during that whole protest

1:37:19

on January sixth, mister

1:37:22

apps, the mysterious guy who says, we're all

1:37:24

gonna go to the capital, and he was everywhere

1:37:26

in the thing. And he was for a while, he was on the FBI

1:37:28

and miss warning, and then mysteriously,

1:37:31

he just was exonerated. I

1:37:33

e, it probably wasn't informative, but

1:37:35

we'll never learn that. My

1:37:37

point is that, what if he or

1:37:39

some self appointed leader said, you

1:37:41

know what? We're carving out

1:37:44

this area right here. This is a free

1:37:46

America zone. And

1:37:49

we want it and we're going to camp out

1:37:51

here And what if they had

1:37:53

done

1:37:53

that? How long do you think the capital police would

1:37:55

allow that to happen? They

1:37:57

would have shut it down in minutes. Yes.

1:38:00

And yet, you go, that's exactly what happened

1:38:02

in many major cities of the United States.

1:38:04

People just appropriated public land.

1:38:08

And it did a lot of damage to America

1:38:10

because it was downtown yeah.

1:38:13

I've gone to Seattle twice since

1:38:16

that

1:38:16

happened. And when you go down to the downtown,

1:38:19

when you go down to downtown Portland, it doesn't

1:38:21

look the same. No. I

1:38:23

think it's ever gonna recover.

1:38:26

Well, we'll certainly see. Well,

1:38:28

Victor, thank you so much for the

1:38:31

the look back into the Punic

1:38:33

wars. Really enjoy that. And

1:38:35

these videos with Tucker Carlson

1:38:38

and as we as

1:38:40

we are podcasting, haven't hasn't

1:38:42

finished, so we'll see what he

1:38:44

does in his next few

1:38:45

shows, videos. So

1:38:48

Our next war won't be talking about the Roman

1:38:50

Civil Wars, round one, round two, round

1:38:52

three. Yeah. There there because we're

1:38:54

looking at very fundamental wars that

1:38:56

changed history, and we're very costly. So

1:38:58

we've done now the Persian wars,

1:39:00

the Peloponnesian wars, the campaigns of

1:39:03

Alexander Great, and the Punic wars, and

1:39:05

we'll do the

1:39:07

first tramber, the second tramber, and

1:39:09

the falling out between Anthony and

1:39:12

Augustus. Again, I should say.

1:39:15

Yeah. Yeah. Great. Well, thank

1:39:17

you very much, and thanks to our listeners.

1:39:19

We and we're always happy,

1:39:21

of course, that we've got lots of listeners

1:39:23

and we hope that you appreciated the show

1:39:25

today. I know that I did

1:39:27

Victor, so thank you. Thank

1:39:29

you, everybody, for listening. This is Sammy

1:39:31

Wink and Victor Davis Hanson, and we're

1:39:33

signing off.