0:00

You're listening to an encore episode

0:02

of the View. The show will return Monday,

0:04

November twenty eight, live at the

0:06

hot topics table. The

0:09

view starts right

0:12

now. A

0:14

question of diversity. as

0:16

the supreme court's conservative majority

0:19

questions race conscious college admission

0:21

policies. Justice Thomas wonders

0:23

if affirmative action has had a negative

0:26

impact on America.

0:27

I've heard the word diversity quite

0:29

a few times, and I don't have a clue what it

0:31

means.

0:32

Has race run its course when it comes

0:34

to college admissions or are too

0:36

many American minorities still

0:38

being left behind. And

0:41

Matthew Perry is here. to share

0:43

his journey from the heights of super stardom

0:46

to the depths of drug addiction that almost

0:48

killed him. And what saved

0:51

his life. Here

0:53

come hot topics with

0:56

would be. Sarah Hayne.

0:59

Anna Navarro, joy

1:03

behar, sunny

1:05

Austin, and Elizabeth

1:08

grip in. Now,

1:10

let's get things started.

1:39

Well, hello. Hello. Hello. Hello.

1:44

And well, come to the view.

1:46

Yay. So

1:49

on Monday, the Supreme Court engaged

1:51

in oral arguments over two cases

1:54

that are challenging race conscious

1:56

college admission policies. And

1:58

there's speculation that

2:00

this could lead to yet another

2:02

overturning of something

2:05

that we've been trying to work with. In

2:07

this case, affirmative action. Take

2:09

a look. The university is not requiring

2:11

anybody to give their race at the

2:13

beginning. When you give

2:15

your race, you're not getting any special points.

2:17

No one's automatically getting in

2:19

because race is being used.

2:21

I thought that part

2:23

of what it meant to be an American

2:25

and to believe an American pluralism is

2:28

that actually our institutions you

2:30

know, are reflective of who we are

2:33

as as a

2:34

people in

2:35

all our variety. I've heard the

2:37

word diversity quite a few

2:39

times, and I don't have a clue what it means.

2:43

It seems to mean everything for

2:45

everyone. Actually, no, that's not

2:47

what it means, sir.

2:50

You know, being inclusive

2:53

means that when you look around that court,

2:55

you're seeing women who may not have had

2:57

the ability to go

3:00

to law school had affirmative action

3:02

not been there to make sure that women were

3:04

allowed in the school. You are

3:06

sitting on a court where and I

3:08

know

3:08

you don't like to admit but

3:10

you might have gotten some help because you

3:12

would not have been allowed in the college

3:14

of your choice. Had it not

3:16

been for affirmative action? It

3:19

is not this is all you

3:21

have to do. It is saying, you have

3:23

to include this as what you do.

3:25

And you also ought to mention that

3:27

the people who have benefited most from

3:29

affirmative action have been women

3:31

who are white because white

3:33

women could not get into so many schools.

3:35

They were not allowed to move forward.

3:38

That's who also so you can't really

3:40

slice it up this way and say, well, this is

3:42

the part that we're gonna choose. Affirmative

3:44

action works for all those of

3:46

us who were not allowed to

3:49

go to the institutions where we

3:51

thought we could do

3:51

our best as

3:53

students. That's in part

3:55

what this was for. It's all of so about

3:58

not hiring just men. You

3:59

have to hire some women. It is so much

4:02

bigger than this

4:02

this case

4:04

that this guy, because I took my glasses off

4:06

that campaign.

4:07

You know, can I quote

4:09

that too?

4:10

In nineteen eighty three, when he was

4:12

Chairman of the EEOC, this

4:14

is what he said, the same person It

4:17

is my view that too much posturing

4:19

has taken place on issues such as affirmative

4:22

action, which are critical to

4:24

minorities and women in this society.

4:26

But for them, God only knows

4:28

where I would be today. Who said that?

4:30

Clarence Thomas. Clarence. It's

4:33

terrible. Clarence. Yeah. It's

4:35

terrible. He's done this

4:37

complete one hundred and eighty. Yeah.

4:40

Like a like a lot of people in politics

4:42

these days. They do. I mean, I I

4:44

received an educational upper Trinity

4:46

program full scholarship

4:48

to go to college. But for that, I wouldn't

4:50

be sitting here today.

4:51

My parents were very poor,

4:52

and it was

4:55

called the Equal Opportunity Program --

4:57

Yeah. -- because race was a

4:59

part of it -- Yes. -- but I also had

5:01

a four point o -- That's right. Right?

5:03

So that's the difference. It just gives you the

5:05

opportunity. And I think people are

5:07

being really intellectually dishonest when

5:09

they're sort of hinging this argument now against

5:12

Harvard. SAYING THAT

5:14

ASIAN AMERICANS

5:15

ARE BEING DISCRIMINATED

5:16

AGAINST. BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK ACTUALLY

5:19

AT THE STATISTICS the majority of

5:21

Asian Americans support race conscious

5:23

admissions. And that's from the API

5:25

agencies. What? They support race

5:27

conscious -- Yeah. -- admissions. Koreans

5:29

by eighty two percent indians, eighty

5:31

percent Asian Americans overall, sixty

5:33

nine percent Filipino, sixty seven

5:35

percent Vietnamese, sixty seven percent Japanese,

5:37

sixty five percent Chinese, fifty nine

5:39

percent So let's not try to

5:41

pretend that this is about

5:43

Asian Americans being discriminated against.

5:45

This is actually a concerted effort by a

5:47

man named Edward Blum. blum.

5:49

Yeah. Who has been backed

5:51

by dark money by the far right.

5:53

Mhmm. And he was behind

5:55

the Fisher versus Texas case, which

5:57

is at the first swipe. at affirmative action.

6:00

And that was the argument there was

6:02

that white women

6:03

were being discriminated against.

6:05

It was some impact. But bring up

6:07

one thing

6:07

that actually conflicts with your the pupils in

6:09

April twenty twenty two. This is just facts that

6:11

I that I No. This is true. It's

6:13

the pupil in April twenty twenty two. Majorityies

6:15

of Americans across racial and ethnic

6:17

and partisan groups say race or ethnicity

6:19

should not be factored in to colleges,

6:22

except at sixty eight percent of Hispanic adults,

6:24

sixty three percent Asian Americans, fifty nine

6:26

percent of black adults and they said the things

6:28

that should rank higher or high

6:30

school grades, community service, whether

6:32

they're the first in their family to go to

6:34

school, because

6:35

there was an article around table about affirmative

6:37

action and this quote rang true to me. J.

6:39

Caspian Kang said the great

6:41

irony here is that this is about Harvard

6:43

being an idea of an EXEMPLORER OF

6:46

DIVERSITY IS ABSURED TO ME. LIKE THIS IS

6:48

A SCHOOL WHERE THEY HAVE ALMOST AS MANY STUDENTS

6:50

FROM THE TOP POINT one percent NOT

6:52

ONE percent POINT ONE PERCENT OF

6:54

INCOME EARNERS, ALMOST EVERYONE AT HARVET

6:56

IS WEALTHY. SO ONE OF THE THINK PEOPLE ARE

6:58

BRINGING -- Reporter: JUST PROBLE OF THE HARVET

7:00

OR LEG IS white legacies. And I will get let

7:02

me just push my point. I am completely against

7:04

legacy and also donors. We

7:06

know personally that Jared Kushner might

7:08

have gotten into Harvard because of a massive

7:10

donation. That definitely geared

7:13

towards white people, but

7:15

the point is that doesn't

7:17

a donation help the school to some extent.

7:19

But when doing a sum of those, the grid of

7:21

donation, get rid of legacy I'm not sure their

7:23

old school would survive with that. What about athletic?

7:25

Should we get rid of that advantage as well? No.

7:27

I think these these specifically go towards

7:29

white students is the legacy appointment.

7:32

I think that there's some value like, listen, I think

7:34

we all universally agree that equality and

7:36

equity and diversity is so important

7:38

in higher education. It makes for a richer

7:40

experience. So I think that's without question.

7:42

I do think re shifting the lens

7:44

a bit to look to focus on

7:46

all aspects, the full spectrum of diversity,

7:48

I THINK WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT SOCIAL ECONOMIC DIVERSITY

7:51

AS MUCH AS WE ARE RACE AND OTHER FACTORS

7:53

A POUR WHITE PERSON FROM APALACIA WHO

7:55

IS THE FIRST IN THEIR not just the first to go

7:57

to college, but to go to I know that that

7:59

is taken into

7:59

account. That's

8:01

that's the that's the of

8:03

why this makes no sense. That's

8:06

why this was

8:08

put in place so that

8:10

poor people would have the same

8:12

chance and opportunity white

8:14

OUR REIT. I THINK WE'RE LETTING

8:16

OFF THESE ALLETE INSTITUTIONS THAT HAVE BILLION

8:18

dollars ENDOWments THAT AREN'T THEMSELVES

8:20

DOING ENOUGH TO CONTRIBBE TO DIVERSITY. JUST THE FACT even

8:23

the discussion around student loan forgiveness,

8:25

frankly, Harvard has a billion plus

8:27

dollars. Yeah. But they're letting people go to broke

8:29

on the back of going to their Schwelk yet. Why aren't

8:31

they doing more damage to the political? And

8:33

Harvard actually gives most of yeah.

8:35

It give most scholarships to

8:37

the most students in the

8:39

country and in the world. And I know

8:41

this because I'm paying for Harvard because my

8:43

son is there because I don't qualify for

8:45

the full month. Twenty percent SOCU

8:47

ECONOMICALLY IN THIS COUNTRY MAKE UP OF MIGHT

8:49

ZASS MINORITY OF THE HARVARD. AND THAT

8:51

IS BECAUSE BECAUSE

8:54

THE seventy percent

8:55

of children that go to Harvard

8:58

on athletic scholarships are also

8:59

white. But let me just finish this one point.

9:02

But that would be based on rate. Wait. Let's let's

9:04

do this.

9:04

You you really wanna finish the form. I would.

9:06

You really wanna Yeah. Okay. We'll

9:08

be right back and then we'll talk more about

9:10

this.

9:17

Still ahead. Matthew

9:20

Perry

9:20

is opening up about friends

9:22

lovers and the big, terrible

9:24

thing.

9:25

So we're

9:28

back, and

9:29

we were talking about supreme court hearing

9:31

cases that TELLIGENCE OF FACTIONS OF

9:33

SCHOOLS. AND I JUST WANTED TO A BASSIVE

9:35

-- THIS IS REALLY

9:36

ABOUT A CONSERVATIVE ACTIVUS.

9:38

HE'S NOT A LAWYER. HIS NAME IS EDWARD BLOM AND

9:40

WUPI AND I'VE are both

9:42

talking about him.

9:43

He claims to be a champion of

9:44

Friday of Asian Americans.

9:47

That is not true.

9:48

He claims it. affirmative action harms

9:50

Asian Americans. That is not true. He first

9:52

started with white women that didn't work. Now

9:54

he's trying with Asian Americans. I think

9:56

that is going to work. He is

9:58

also in front of the Supreme

9:59

Court being

10:00

funded by a law firm and

10:02

some dark money. Most of Clarence many

10:04

of Clarence Thomas' law clerk's work at this

10:07

law firm. The next attack is on

10:09

LGBTQ plus rights, and the

10:11

next attack is on voting rights. And they're

10:13

all before the Supreme Court. And so I think what

10:15

we need to do is recognize this

10:17

for what it is. This is a right wing

10:20

attack on our rights.

10:22

And it's a concerted effort. Sunny, there

10:24

are a lot of Asian Americans that are a part

10:26

of this. and there's something called a virus.

10:28

you. Well, yeah, and and it can be

10:30

started by a guy like that, but it doesn't disrupt

10:32

the fact that there's a personality rating

10:34

that Asian Americans are having

10:37

trouble with in regards to a

10:39

cultural difference. It's I wouldn't even say it's

10:41

discriminatory. It's downright racist. They're

10:43

judging them on a personality score. And if you on

10:45

just test scores, which by the way,

10:47

people think high school grades first then

10:49

standardize test scores, forty three percent of

10:51

these elite institutions would be

10:53

Asian. SO IT DOES.

10:56

THE PROBLEM WITH THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT

10:58

WAS TO SAY DON'T DISCRIMINARY GET NATE AGAINST

11:00

RACE BECAUSE DISCRIMINATING HEURS A

11:02

RACE fixing it with the same discrimination is gonna hurt

11:04

some other things. That's not

11:07

what happened. Let me explain

11:09

you know, unless you're saying white people are discriminated

11:11

against. No. No. I'm saying, American people

11:13

are discriminated against. Well, here's here's

11:16

if you are someone

11:17

who says, these

11:19

tests don't

11:20

really reflect us. This

11:22

is what we did. When we talked

11:24

about the tests that

11:25

were given in our in

11:27

in American schools. Said this

11:29

didn't really reflect how I

11:31

grew up. You're asking questions I don't have

11:33

any understanding of. Right. The

11:36

the key then is to adjust what

11:39

you're doing. It's adjusting the

11:41

standardized test. It is not stopping

11:43

affirmative action because Once

11:44

that happens, someone can then

11:47

say, well, you know, we have three

11:49

Asian

11:49

American students. We've got

11:51

enough. See, they

11:52

can't do that. They can't say,

11:55

oh, we have well, we have three women.

11:57

We we we can't do that. I think The big

11:59

I'm sorry. The

11:59

big picture of affirmative

12:02

action. It is there to

12:04

help people who would not

12:06

normally be able to get

12:08

in -- Right. -- not just on their

12:10

merit because Folks who were applying to

12:12

these schools had the

12:14

grades, had everything, and they still weren't

12:16

accepted. I'm talking about women. Supreme

12:18

Court has indicated they would consider

12:20

socio economic differences because clearly

12:22

education is not equal. The problem

12:25

with that is that's a failed experiment.

12:27

In California, nineteen ninety eight, California

12:29

passed, I believe it was coal proposition 2090

12:32

yes. It vanished affirmative

12:34

action.

12:34

Mhmm.

12:35

the very next year, the

12:38

number of California black

12:40

and Latino first year students plunged by

12:42

nearly half at UCLA. AND UCBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB

12:53

clearance some and say he doesn't understand diversity. He's

12:55

married to a white woman. No. This isn't that diverse.

12:57

This is the wait. But the point that

12:59

you're touching on Sonny is important judge Justice

13:02

Brown said in her explanation, aren't

13:04

other things taken into consideration? Like, if

13:06

you're a parent, if you're a

13:07

vet. Yes. If you're the first one to

13:08

go to college, she was even bringing up that

13:11

diversity is different. And you have to look different. What

13:13

he's saying is, is this diversity only racial

13:15

diversity? What is what they're talking about?

13:17

That's all this man is talking

13:19

about. That's all he wants to take back.

13:21

If that's an important piece. Yes. So just first

13:23

click, what I think we can't lose from this discussion

13:25

is American higher educations falling

13:27

behind and of the most critical fields were

13:29

falling behind China. STEM fields, we

13:31

do not have enough people going into them.

13:33

That has national security implications, it

13:35

has the future economy of the US.

13:37

global competitiveness. So I think we need to think about how

13:39

do we put forward the most qualified students

13:42

from broadly diverse backgrounds and

13:44

give everybody people for the government. They dropped

13:46

me off the government. First of all, you

13:48

also have universal Perry. People

13:51

accept people, they

13:53

visually don't want to sit next

13:55

to. That is why it had

13:57

to be a law because if you'd left

13:59

it alone,

13:59

people would not have accepted

14:02

people, women would not have gotten into

14:04

college. There's so much that would not have

14:06

happened. It's unfortunate that we have to

14:08

have a law that says Listen, you have to take

14:10

this into consideration, but that's the

14:12

country we

14:12

live in. Sometimes

14:13

we have to push people and say,

14:16

listen.

14:16

All children should be educated

14:19

equally,

14:19

but they weren't. So we had

14:22

brown versus board of education. We

14:24

had to do stuff this way

14:26

because people weren't doing the right

14:28

thing. And today,

14:31

twentieth century studios, released a

14:33

trailer for Avatar, which

14:35

always talks about diversity in the

14:37

bio system and everywhere else.

14:39

James Cameron's much anticipated

14:41

follow-up to his the winning film

14:43

Avatar, the highest grossing

14:45

film of all time. Now you

14:47

can see the full trailer on our

14:49

website, Avatar, the way

14:51

of water. open to

14:53

theaters on December sixteenth was a

14:55

good transition. Yes. It was.

14:57

Yes.

14:57

It was. That was fair.

15:01

I like that transition. Thank you.

15:03

We'll be right back.

15:12

So

15:14

welcome. So this

15:15

is very important, so I have to read it correctly.

15:18

or

15:18

I'll get hell

15:19

from Brian. Okay.

15:22

A woman wrote into the Washington

15:24

Post advice column. because she

15:26

overheard her friend launch into a

15:28

rant about her after the

15:30

friend thought she had hung up

15:32

her phone. That's the The

15:34

woman's family wants her to clear the

15:36

air since this is an old

15:38

family Friday, but She's

15:40

having a hard time because

15:42

she don't know what to tell. How

15:46

would y'all do it? which

15:48

I think you guys overheard the other

15:50

woman trashing her. Yeah. Yeah. That's

15:52

where your phone is still on, but copies can

15:54

be something. Yeah. I have to watch that. Yeah.

15:56

I tell you that when you hear

15:58

that, you handle it with dignity and

15:59

then you declared that they are dead to

16:02

you. No. You

16:04

can't. Yes. You do not have

16:06

a battle first. You gotta

16:08

say now. Now don't engage them. You

16:10

can battleously battle. Would you call

16:12

me such as such as such an other? Would you like

16:14

to explain yourself

16:15

I I don't enjoy that part.

16:16

That

16:18

part's annoying. It because the person

16:20

will be either Perry, oh, sorry.

16:23

Sorry. Sorry. and then want you to forgive them. No.

16:25

They're dead. Well, some of it is true.

16:27

What else? Some of it is true? I

16:29

don't can't. Tell me somewhere else. Don't

16:31

talk I have a feeling this is one

16:33

of those unequal friendships where one person

16:35

feels you're closer than the other because when you think

16:37

about your closest friends, How often do

16:39

you get off the phone

16:40

ranting and raving? How often

16:41

do you get off criticism? I

16:44

I have I all have criticisms or

16:46

have a conversation, but I'm rarely bashing

16:48

or ranting. Now we but you

16:50

might say, you know, you're hanging me to go, he's

16:52

an idiot. I mean, oh, I

16:54

do know about my best friend. I do know

16:56

about my husband, but not about my best friend.

16:58

Well, as a different standard

17:00

here, this is my girl club.

17:02

But I would say that the one friend probably feels

17:04

they're closer than they actually

17:05

we are are. I

17:06

think that's right. I I've not experienced this, although

17:08

apparently Joy's a repeat offender of leaving

17:10

people voicemail. She doesn't have to

17:12

watch it. Technologically stupid.

17:14

Hanging up the phone stuffs. But I

17:17

had to happen with an email, actually, a couple of

17:19

times with one very specific incident when I was

17:21

in the White House. I did a reply on.

17:23

Somebody forwarded a chain, not realizing someone

17:25

was criticizing me further down on the

17:27

chain. And I was like, how are you doing? What

17:30

I did? What would be said, which

17:32

is directly go to them. You address it head on. Good

17:34

for you. And that was never quite

17:36

resolved. We don't speak, but, hey,

17:38

that happens. When it all lines up

17:41

to saying, wait. It's all I made. But no. No.

17:43

But you you know, I'll put another two

17:45

century and congress. Start, you

17:47

know, start bubbling away. You know, I don't

17:49

want that. If if there's a problem by

17:51

her, heard some maybe I misunderstood. I

17:53

wanna ask

17:53

you, did is this what you meant

17:55

to say? Yeah. Because that's what

17:58

I heard. because you butt down

17:59

me. And now I heard you

18:02

talking to your husband about me. Is or was

18:04

that you oh,

18:04

that was your boyfriend? Oh, no. I I'm sorry. I

18:07

so that's

18:07

say your boyfriend? Yeah. I

18:10

think you I think it's just better to confront it.

18:12

I mean, I I had one girlfriend

18:14

that I argue with all the time. She's

18:15

my only friend. Cathy, you know it's

18:18

you. And and we are She's

18:20

your only friend. Thank you. She's

18:22

the only friend that I've never had an

18:24

argument with friend. Right. But this particular girlfriend,

18:26

I think she enjoys it. Oh. And so I'm

18:28

quite sure one day I'll catch her. She never will

18:30

enjoy it. a lawyer. Why

18:32

do you hear her telling about you behind your back? No. She does it

18:34

to my face. Oh. That's better. That's

18:37

acceptable. But I'm sure I would catch her

18:39

doing that, but don't know what she's gonna get out

18:41

of doing. You wanna catch us

18:43

talking about November? Yeah. because

18:45

November.

18:45

I think

18:49

look.

18:49

That's it. is Native

18:52

American heritage month. All month long,

18:54

we're celebrating the rich

18:56

and

18:56

diverse cultures. traditions,

18:58

and important contributions of

19:01

indigenous people, Sunny. You have

19:03

our first. I do.

19:04

I'm so proud. Today, we are

19:06

honoring a brave woman in the medical

19:08

field who used her skills to

19:10

change her community for the better.

19:12

Take a look. At just eight

19:13

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21:10

Welcome

21:12

back in this new memoir, Friends,

21:15

lovers, and the big terrible thing.

21:17

Matthew Perry, shares an eye

21:19

opening account of being one of

21:20

Hollywood's biggest stars who waged

21:22

a behind

21:23

the scenes battle with substance

21:26

abuse. It's about so many more

21:28

things. We are so pleased to have him

21:30

here. Please welcome Matthew

21:32

Perry.

21:53

Right now,

22:00

so you you It's

22:02

an extraordinary book I've been listening

22:04

to, but you started the book about

22:06

how this addiction literally

22:09

almost took your life. your

22:11

doctors told your family you had two percent chance

22:13

of survival. Yet you

22:16

you you are. You

22:18

survived a lot. stop. Glad to say

22:20

after I'd meet whoopeeing God. Yes.

22:23

Yes. It's true. How are you how are

22:25

you today? I'm doing really well. I'm

22:27

doing really well. Things are going

22:29

great. In my life, I

22:31

wrote a book, so that's

22:33

why I'm wearing glasses because I'm an author. Yeah.

22:35

And not just an author. The

22:37

book is flying off the shelves by the way. It's doing

22:39

very well. It's doing really well. powerful.

22:42

It's a

22:42

powerful book. You and it talks about how you

22:45

began drinking at fourteen years

22:47

old. Just hanging out with

22:49

your buddies I held off as

22:50

long as I could. And

22:52

the first pill that kicked

22:54

off the beginning of your drug addiction was for

22:57

a very real a

22:59

real injury. Yeah.

23:01

Because you hurt yourself jet scheme while you were

23:03

doing a movie with Salma Hayek.

23:05

Right. So just tell us

23:07

how that it quickly escalated from there.

23:08

Well, I I had no idea what was going

23:10

on. A doctor gave me a

23:13

a pill in a package. and

23:15

to take this when you're done shooting. Uh-huh.

23:18

And I then I felt this

23:20

incredible euphoria. Right

23:22

away. Right. Well, we've got to kick in.

23:24

I guess, but it, twenty minutes or

23:26

so. And, you know, I said to

23:28

myself, basically, if this doesn't kill

23:30

me, I'm doing this again.

23:33

and it took about

23:35

a year But

23:35

then thinks yourself, geez. Something this good must

23:37

be better.

23:37

I should have, but I but I when you

23:40

you know, a lot of people take bike it

23:42

in or pills like that that makes them feel kind of sick

23:44

to their stomach. Yeah. You know, for

23:47

me, it it felt like for the first time

23:49

ever the world made

23:51

sense. when I took it. So why wouldn't

23:53

I take -- Yeah. -- more. And it took

23:55

about a year for me to get down

23:58

to one hundred and thirty pounds

24:00

and I went to

24:02

treatment and that was my first

24:04

treatment center. But I was only there for

24:06

twenty eight days and there's no way you can learn

24:08

what you need to learn in

24:10

twenty eight days. No. So,

24:13

you know, the rest of my life has

24:15

been battling this disease.

24:18

I've been mostly sober since two

24:20

thousand and one, but I've had a

24:22

tremendous amount of slips

24:24

and, you know, and

24:26

it's

24:26

amazing. No. No. No. setbacks.

24:29

setbacks. Once

24:29

when you were on the show, the movie serving

24:32

Sarah, Barbara asked you about having been to

24:34

rehab during filming, so we're gonna take a

24:36

quick look at what you said. Can

24:38

you

24:38

give any kind of advice

24:40

or spirit or anything? about

24:42

what you did today. Yeah. Sure. Well,

24:43

you know, the truth is it's it's an ongoing

24:46

process. You know, you never fully recover from

24:48

this thing. So you

24:50

know, it's kind of a daily spiritual

24:53

condition that you need to live your life with. For

24:55

me, you know, in a

24:57

bizarre way, I get kind of blessed because things

24:59

got so bad for me that

25:01

there was no if answer but to us.

25:03

There was no question. See,

25:05

you're either gonna you know, die early from this

25:08

disease or you're gonna go and and try

25:10

to learn as much as you can about it

25:12

and try to live a happy life.

25:14

So

25:15

with addiction, I know you never

25:17

get

25:17

over it or heal yourself. It's something you

25:19

coexist with. Do you think with what you

25:21

said there that you have now learned to coexist with

25:23

it? And are you happy?

25:24

I'm very happy. And

25:27

I had to wait until I knew

25:29

that I was It's kinda

25:31

sobriety safe to

25:33

write this book because you don't wanna

25:35

write a book like this and then be seen, you

25:37

know -- Yeah. -- yelling in the streets.

25:39

So, you know,

25:41

I was happy then and then

25:43

something probably bad happened to me and I

25:45

relapsed and it's been sort of an

25:47

up and down battle. But

25:50

one of the things that I learned and that's why I put

25:52

the book out now was that

25:54

the highs and lows from

25:56

me were unbelievable, and I'm really grateful for all the good

25:58

things that happened to me. But a lot of

26:00

bad things happened to me too. And no

26:02

matter how far down the scale

26:04

you've gone, that means you can

26:06

help more people. Yeah. Right? You

26:08

know? And when I went to the first,

26:10

I'm just adding the same, but when I went to the

26:12

first treatment center, I

26:14

had no idea was going on story. Yeah.

26:17

And a doctor, I had a meeting

26:19

with a doctor

26:21

And as I was walking out, he he went,

26:23

was it? Just remember, this isn't your fault. I

26:26

mean, and I went,

26:27

what say that

26:30

again and he explained that it was

26:32

a disease and I had no

26:34

idea and that took so much of it

26:36

made me feel better because it wasn't

26:38

really my fault. I had this disease. I

26:40

had to fight it. And I've been fighting it

26:42

for so long that I now I

26:44

mean, that's that's the evidence that things are

26:46

going well is that I put out this book.

26:48

Yeah. And It would

26:49

help if people did understand that

26:51

it is a disease. It would be very

26:53

helpful to curing a lot of people of this particular

26:55

disease. I think so. Columbia is

26:57

a perfect example of just two instances with

26:59

drinking and drugs. They were instantaneous

27:02

reactions to I need this in

27:04

a way that I don't think I don't remember

27:06

feeling that way with a drink

27:07

or I never did anything else. But Right.

27:09

Well, you're lucky to have the guests. I don't hit

27:11

make up a genetic disorder. Yes. You're

27:13

Perry disposal. In so much obsession

27:16

of your mind -- Yeah. -- and

27:18

a phenomenon of craving. So it's a two

27:20

pronged disease. So you think of like

27:22

a martini and you can't think of anything

27:25

other than a martini. Yeah. And then you drink the

27:27

martini and your body goes, oh,

27:29

Alright. Now give

27:30

us this martini and everything else --

27:32

Yeah. -- you know, that's what happens. Yeah. Well, you make

27:34

deals. It's all about deal making

27:37

every day. So how far can I get in the

27:39

next hour? What can I can

27:41

I can I get you're talking

27:43

about Stop and Smoke and Joy, and I used to

27:45

have this conversation station all

27:47

the time because I was a big smoke and nobody's gonna stop me

27:49

ever -- Right. -- until I was ready. And then

27:51

when I was ready and

27:53

I stopped, Joe, I was like, you Mhmm.

27:55

It's like, yeah.

27:56

I said, but most people have a hard

27:58

time with it. For

27:59

me, this thing that what happened to

28:02

me was so profound that I had

28:04

there was no other choice, and I did it

28:06

with people on Twitter. I said to

28:08

people, I think I have to stop

28:11

smoking Is anybody else feel like this? And a hundred

28:13

and forty four people said yes.

28:15

And of that one forty four,

28:17

probably ninety. of us

28:19

are still non smokers ten years later.

28:21

Yeah. But it it takes, you

28:23

know, you need help to do this. Yeah.

28:25

Yeah.

28:25

You know, eighteen old, surprisingly

28:27

ours. way hard. Yeah. So

28:29

so one of

28:29

the good things that happened to you back in those

28:32

days was friends. Oh, yeah.

28:34

Right? So talk a little bit about your

28:36

relationship to fame. at

28:38

that

28:38

point. Well, I was I

28:40

wanna fame more than anybody in the

28:42

world. Steaming, we've come out of my ears.

28:44

I wanna fame so badly. And

28:46

then I got it. And about like six

28:49

months later, I went, oh, this

28:51

is not fixing what I thought

28:53

fix. Yeah. And I'm very grateful

28:55

for everything that happened, of course. One

28:57

of the things I say in the book, though,

29:01

is it did help me with

29:03

drugs and alcohol that job

29:05

because when I said to

29:07

myself, I'm on this Amazing show.

29:09

Right. You can't have the seventeenth

29:11

drink when you have to be at

29:13

work the next morning with these wonderful

29:16

people. and doing the job. And had a deal with

29:18

myself that I would never drink

29:20

or take anything while working. Right.

29:22

And I I

29:24

held up to that deal, but I was

29:26

insanely hungover -- Yeah. --

29:28

doing the work, you know. But I it's

29:30

it was the greatest job in the world. I felt like I was

29:32

second basement for the yankees every day. It

29:34

was great. Well, folks don't

29:36

like that about you. And you

29:37

know what? We're gonna talk more about this when

29:39

we come back. Okay. Okay.

29:48

Hey,

29:49

we're

29:54

back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. Perry

29:55

you included something in the

29:56

book, which I really kinda knocking

29:59

me out. It's

29:59

something Martin Sheen said to you?

30:01

Oh, yeah. Will you say do you Yeah. It

30:03

was really cool. I I after

30:06

all these surgeries I've

30:08

had, a few scars from

30:10

them. Yeah. And I had to

30:12

talk with Martin Sheen about that. and he

30:14

said, have you heard about the guy that

30:16

went to the Perry and

30:18

saw Saint Peter. And Saint

30:19

Peter said to him, do you have any

30:22

scars and he very proudly said, no. No. I don't.

30:24

And Saint Peter said, why was

30:26

there nothing to fight for?

30:29

No.

30:29

And I thought that was really I we

30:31

out. Yeah. Absolutely. And

30:33

we were talking about

30:35

friends before, and I don't think people

30:37

realized I know this

30:39

now. but why Chandler spoke? Like, where

30:41

that Chandler speak came from? Yeah.

30:43

Yeah. That

30:44

my two friends, Friday, and

30:47

and Chris Murray and myself in,

30:49

like, third grade started that kind of

30:51

odd way of talking. Right.

30:54

And I felt a little guilty

30:56

because I took it in,

30:58

you know Me, I felt that really

31:00

bad. Yeah. Yeah. And they're fun though.

31:02

They're nice about it, that whole, like, could this teacher

31:04

be any meaner? All

31:06

that stuff. And then

31:09

the whole nation started to talk that

31:11

way. Right. And that's when I went to the

31:13

producers and said, I I have to

31:15

stop. I have to stop saying

31:17

this.

31:17

So Matthew, you're

31:19

talking about how I don't know if your castmates

31:21

were aware of your addiction, but

31:23

Jennifer Aniston came to you and said, look,

31:25

we know what's going on and etcetera. Tell

31:27

us about that.

31:28

Yeah. Well, I mean, everybody kind of knew,

31:31

but nobody was nobody was talking

31:33

about it. and people

31:35

that had

31:35

my back, you know, and Jennifer one

31:37

day came up and said, we know you're we

31:40

know you're drinking

31:41

and you gotta get

31:43

help. to stop.

31:46

And it was a very scary moment

31:49

because when you're in your

31:51

disease, You can't stop. No. You can't

31:53

just stop. I couldn't just follow Jenny's

31:55

advice. Yeah. I I sort of Did she

31:57

try to help

31:57

you? Did she have an idea? Well,

32:00

she just said I said to her, how

32:02

do you know? How do you

32:02

know? And he said she said, we we could

32:05

smell it. We can smell it. And

32:07

it's crazy because when you're

32:09

when you drink, you don't when

32:11

you're an alcoholic, you have no concept

32:13

that you are wreaking. Right. You

32:15

have

32:15

no concept that you smell like a sewage bowl.

32:17

Yeah.

32:17

You know? And peep at

32:19

you. Wow. Yes.

32:23

You know? I've had a drink of two

32:25

at

32:25

my time. You know? You know? And

32:28

and when

32:28

people say, you know, you should, you know, this is what

32:30

you can do. People don't

32:33

realize that you're in the midst of

32:34

you're in a box and you can't

32:36

get

32:36

up. Here's the exit, and it's hard

32:39

you keep trying to get up out

32:41

of there. but you decided to

32:43

continue enjoying. That's what your question

32:45

is. Right? Yeah. I mean, it's about Lisa Kudrow

32:47

who wrote a very moving forward

32:49

in the book. and she says

32:52

that she did wonder if she could have done

32:54

more for you. And I'm wondering

32:56

from you who haven't gone through this and with so

32:58

many scars as you say, Is this something

33:00

you can say to people about

33:02

maybe how they could handle this or the

33:04

families of addicted people, what

33:06

they could do? Sure. I mean, there's a couple

33:07

of things that took place.

33:09

On the set of friends, it was the emulated kind of in

33:12

nature penguins and what

33:14

penguins do for each other. If a

33:16

penguin is injured, the

33:18

other penguins surround it and prop it up and

33:20

walk around it until the penguins okay.

33:22

And that's sort of what the cast

33:24

of friends did for me. But the thing

33:26

to really do is to raise your hand, and that's

33:29

what helped me is the fear

33:30

of it. Like, I I would get so far

33:32

into it. I'd be like, oh, well, this

33:34

is dangerous now. and I

33:36

would raise my hand get the right help. You you have

33:39

to have professionals in your

33:41

business. You can't just be a group of people who don't know

33:43

anything about this. because

33:45

as much as I wanted to quit that day that

33:47

Jenny came up to me and said, we

33:49

know, I I couldn't. It wasn't an

33:51

option, you know. But if you raise your hand the right

33:53

people. You get the right help.

33:55

You and you don't be

33:57

alone with it. Yeah. You have a

33:59

chance out, and that's what I did.

34:01

took you long many Perry. Yes.

34:04

failures

34:04

and and triumphs and failures and

34:07

triumphs. Well, just like, yeah, that one

34:09

counselor said it's not your fault to you. I'm sure that

34:11

applies to loved ones too to remind them this

34:14

wasn't their fault. Like to take that guilt and

34:16

shame off of the weight

34:18

of this. but you're dating life. Let's completely pivot. Is it part

34:20

of the book? Of course. And there was a ton of

34:22

interest you say in women that you dated who were

34:24

wonderful like Julie Roberts,

34:26

but also some less

34:28

known women that you were dating, but you

34:30

weren't willing to take down kind of a

34:32

wall that you had up. How did

34:34

that impact

34:36

those relationships And where are

34:38

you

34:38

with that right now?

34:40

I was kind of fear

34:42

based didn't that I

34:44

was. So I get in a relationship with some

34:46

wonderful person. There's been wonderful women

34:48

that have crossed my path. and

34:52

I would sort of out of fear

34:54

that they would break up with me, I

34:56

would find something wrong with them and

34:58

break up with them. Oh, that's so

35:00

typical. Yeah. It's very typical.

35:01

And I I think we should

35:03

stop seeing each other. Yeah. Whatever

35:06

you say, I'm not taking

35:06

the blame for what's going wrong at this

35:08

place. But, you

35:09

know, I was

35:12

so afraid of getting of getting

35:14

dumped that I mean, there's that's

35:16

a funny thing. There's like six or seven girls that I went out

35:18

with that I killed to be married do now. Yeah.

35:20

Yeah. But but it would be

35:23

a different it would be a different you. It would be a Not

35:25

be this you. Right. And by the way, all those

35:27

women, he apologizes to you in the book. I'm just

35:29

letting you down. It doesn't.

35:32

And he is single according to the last

35:34

thing I heard when I listened to the book. So

35:36

Yeah.

35:36

Thank

35:41

you

35:41

for calling. Oh, thanks, grabbed me.

35:43

I'd love to show. Eleven. Now, you

35:46

know, before I do anything

35:48

else, if you are awesome when you

35:50

know it's struggling, there's free

35:52

confidential help available.

35:54

Just let

35:54

you know that. Matthew's book,

35:56

Friends, Lovers, and The Big

35:59

Terrible thing is available

35:59

now and you know what y'all you have been

36:02

so good that

36:03

you're all going hard to copy

36:05

this

36:05

book. Okay.

36:08

Okay. Yes. And we'll be right

36:10

back. So

36:17

that's

36:18

the

36:19

show for

36:22

today. We want everybody to have a great day,

36:25

take a little time to enjoy the view. Thanks

36:27

for coming. Thanks

36:30

for watching.

36:47

Disney

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36:53

Every week, go inside the stories of your favorite

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37:01

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From Moana. We'll also hear from the

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