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you're a morning person or a bedtime

1:01

procrastinator, everyone deserves a mattress that works

1:03

for their style. Ashley,

1:27

for the love of home. But

1:57

they're kind of scared to take risks

1:59

because... so scared

2:01

about what the downside

2:03

could be. I'm very

2:05

pleased to be joined at the

2:07

204 days out

2:09

mark from the presidential election

2:12

with Michael LaRosa, who

2:14

is a Capitol Hill veteran, a

2:17

veteran journalist, and was

2:19

press secretary to the First Lady

2:21

and special assistant to

2:24

the President of the United States of America.

2:27

Michael welcome. Thanks for having me

2:29

Steve. I'm just inside the White

2:31

House from a really

2:34

unique vantage point as

2:36

having been principal communications

2:39

aid to the First Lady

2:41

in a moment like right

2:43

now of national crisis, where

2:47

you have a direct attack

2:49

by Iran against Israel. The

2:51

United States is involved in

2:53

the action defending Israel. Iran

2:57

is convening the G7. It's

2:59

on a week where there was a state dinner

3:02

where 240 days out

3:04

from a presidential election.

3:06

Take us inside. What

3:08

is happening around the White

3:11

House, but specifically in the dynamic

3:13

of the people that you know

3:15

as human beings? I think back

3:17

to some of my experiences like

3:19

during Afghanistan and then at the

3:22

beginning of Ukraine, of

3:24

the Ukraine invasion, that the

3:26

Afghanistan withdraw those a

3:28

couple, I want to say

3:30

a couple weeks in the White House

3:33

that you could feel, that you can feel how

3:35

they were dark days, but you could feel the

3:37

tension and the stress

3:39

because the images

3:42

that are playing on TV, playing on

3:44

every TV throughout the White House and the

3:47

President was the commander

3:49

in chief and taking the taking

3:51

the heat for it. There is

3:53

an uneasiness there because you know

3:56

that the pressures your spouse is

3:58

facing are so

4:00

high stakes and especially

4:04

when it comes to the Bidens and the

4:06

military, you know, it was really

4:09

sad and it was really hard, again,

4:11

because they didn't lose a son

4:13

in war, but they had a

4:15

son go away to war and they've

4:17

had tragedy in their lives. So those

4:20

situations, you know, she's

4:23

feeling pain for him. And

4:26

we were going to go to Camp Lejeune because,

4:28

as you know, she does a lot of work

4:30

with military families and there was nervousness about opening

4:32

it up to the press. And I

4:34

thought it was a mistake that we didn't, but

4:36

in the end, we didn't. It goes back to

4:38

sort of protective impulse to protect

4:40

them at all costs. And I thought, you

4:43

know, I said to her, I said, this is the

4:45

moment that military families need you the

4:47

most. You're not making these decisions.

4:49

They know that. But

4:52

that's what supporting military, this is the

4:54

time when you need to be supporting

4:56

those military families. And there were two,

4:58

I think at least one

5:01

or two of the soldiers who died at the

5:03

Abbey Gate or stationed

5:06

at Camp Lejeune. And so it

5:08

was going to be a big deal when we

5:10

got there to Camp Lejeune, the roommate of the

5:13

sergeant, the female sergeant who died,

5:15

had COVID. And so she came to see

5:17

us but couldn't get out of her car. And

5:20

then Dr. B got out of the motorcade and put her hand up

5:22

to the wind, pressed her hand up against the window

5:24

of the roommate's

5:26

car. People had tears coming down their eyes, but,

5:28

you know, I didn't see the president a lot.

5:30

I remember being at Camp David and

5:33

he, with them one weekend,

5:35

he just wasn't, you know, he's

5:39

working constantly. That they, she'll tell

5:41

you they both, they come home,

5:44

they go to dinner at night together in

5:46

their dining room, usually around 7, 6, 45,

5:49

something around there. And

5:52

then they're both reading briefing books for the rest of the night.

5:55

She's usually in bed earlier and up earlier. He's

5:57

usually to bed later. And I

5:59

think. gets up in the morning and does

6:02

a workout on the third floor, then comes down and goes

6:06

down to the office. But

6:08

they consider the briefing books a way of life. They're

6:10

always reading briefing books.

6:12

And the briefing books are there when

6:15

your eyes, she sees them all over the tables. So

6:18

one more story on just sort of trying to lend

6:20

some color. We were in

6:22

San Francisco about the start, right

6:24

after the Russians invaded Ukraine,

6:26

and it was, again, the

6:29

images on TV that really

6:31

affect you, affected her, affected

6:34

him. And it was jarring. And we were

6:37

at fundraiser as you try to be a little bit more candid,

6:40

or at least you try to, you know, I don't

6:44

know, it isn't there, but there's a reporter,

6:46

but you know, people I think

6:48

tend to be a little bit more candid

6:50

when they're talking to their supporters. And

6:53

we were talking about, you know, she kind of ripped up her

6:55

speech and said, I want to say

6:58

there's a display of performative intimacy

7:01

fundraiser. That's a

7:03

great way to put it performative intimacy. And

7:06

we're sitting in the hotel like that morning

7:08

and, and trying to, she

7:11

didn't want to give a standard speech. She wanted

7:13

to talk because it felt tone deaf, you know,

7:15

to not talk about what's going on

7:17

in Ukraine, but instead to talk about raising money for

7:19

the midterms, you know, it was a little weird. I

7:22

said, you know, I think you should remind

7:24

them that they're getting a return on their investment because

7:28

people at that point, we were, the

7:31

way we handled the lead up to that war, I think the

7:33

president and the White House did a great

7:35

job of keeping the

7:38

coalition together, strengthening NATO, but

7:40

also having the back of

7:42

the Ukrainians and keeping

7:45

everybody united. And I

7:47

said, you need to tell them that he has

7:49

been negotiating with the Russians since he was 30,

7:51

36 years old. Like

7:54

this is a 3am phone call. This is

7:56

the moment, this is the reason why even

7:58

if you didn't. want to vote

8:00

for Joe Biden that you know you want

8:02

somebody more progressive on health care or you

8:05

want somebody more progressive on student loans or

8:07

whatever. This is why you voted for the

8:09

man because he's been doing this his entire

8:11

life. There's no one better to be

8:13

in this moment, more experienced, more

8:16

capable in this moment than him.

8:19

Your question just sort of reminded me of that

8:21

moment is the two of them

8:23

as a couple you know they have this enduring love

8:25

story and it's true they text

8:27

and talk throughout the day. When

8:30

we were leaving Ukraine when

8:32

I was with the first lady in the car she

8:34

called him as soon as we crossed

8:37

back into Slovakia you know he's always

8:39

concerned in the middle of the day

8:41

he's calling to see what

8:43

we're doing to make sure that yeah there

8:46

were normal married couples is what I can

8:48

say I know people don't believe me but I

8:50

I noticed just a dependency on each other that

8:52

uh is you

8:55

know real and rooted

8:57

in love so almost

8:59

five decades and when

9:02

times like this are

9:05

challenging for him you know

9:07

she feels it as her as his spouse to

9:10

protect his spouse and so she's

9:12

reading everything in the New York

9:14

Times and everywhere else she's reading all the

9:16

criticisms she's getting the protest too she

9:19

knows the pressures of the moment on

9:21

him and so they

9:24

do try to keep some semblance of a

9:27

of a routine where they see each other at night but

9:30

then it's back to the briefing books after

9:32

that. Well I'm just imagining that that's quite

9:34

a difference between the Biden's and the Trump's

9:36

because Donald Trump while he is

9:39

munching down the cheeseburger in bed at 6

9:42

30 p.m. between a couple

9:44

rounds of handshakes at Mar-a-Lago

9:46

is definitely not reading

9:48

the briefing books and

9:51

when you think about authentic

9:53

love and authentic partnership on

9:55

this the first day of

9:57

the porn store hush

10:00

money trial taking place in

10:02

New York. The contrast between

10:05

the two men in terms of

10:07

their character and fitness is just

10:10

mind-boggling, but nevertheless, a close race it

10:12

is. The contrast and integrity and values

10:15

is so, we've come such a long

10:17

way since the late 90s when Newt

10:21

Gingrich said he was never going to do

10:23

another interview without talking about the values of

10:25

Bill Clinton and the Monica Lewinsky affair. We've

10:27

come such a long way. This is a

10:29

president that goes to, Steve, I don't know

10:31

how often you had to go to church

10:33

on your campaigns, but I have not gone

10:35

to church so much in my lifetime than

10:37

I did between 2019 and 2022. That

10:41

man goes to, first of all, that man goes

10:43

to church every weekend and devoutly Catholic, and

10:46

I don't know how he does it, but even

10:48

if it was snowing in Iowa, he was at a church,

10:51

and we were not staying at the Four

10:54

Seasons, let's put it that way, but he

10:56

was going to a church every weekend. His integrity

10:58

and his character have always

11:00

been a source of what I thought was

11:02

not part of his political superpower, and

11:05

that's why it really bothered me when

11:08

people, what Republicans were really trying

11:11

to smear his son, smear his

11:13

family, smear him, and

11:16

lie about this whole, you know, hiding

11:19

corruption thing. It really bothered

11:21

me that he wasn't punching back more and

11:23

sort of defending his honor. Big mistake. I've

11:25

watched these ratings, these favorable

11:28

ratings, and dropped

11:30

for him, and it just, it

11:33

hurts my heart because, if

11:35

anything, you can hate everything he's doing as

11:37

president, but the man is one

11:39

of the most honorable people he'll

11:41

ever meet. 204 days out, are

11:43

you worried? Do you think

11:46

the president has things in hand? What

11:48

is the likelihood when

11:51

you put your head down

11:53

tonight that you think, when

11:56

we go to bed on election

11:58

night or sometime, early the

12:01

next day, network broadcasts will be

12:03

saying that Donald Trump has been

12:05

elected 47th President of

12:07

the United States. How do you see where things

12:10

are right now? Well, I

12:12

still think it's a 50-50 race.

12:14

The New York Times poll that came out

12:16

over the weekend sort of matched what people

12:19

on cable news and sort

12:22

of the Ponderick Chief class has been

12:24

saying is that his numbers

12:26

are slightly ticking up. They are

12:29

moving in the

12:31

right direction. I think what concerns me, though,

12:33

is just knowing that in 2019 and 2020,

12:35

we didn't trail Trump in any poll. And

12:40

so the fact that he still can't climb over

12:42

that hurdle does concern me because

12:44

at some point, I think he has to

12:46

start creating some consistent distance.

12:48

I mean, you

12:50

would know – I've been watching campaigns and

12:53

observing them and worked on one presidential campaign,

12:55

but you would know better. I would assume

12:58

that at some point, those numbers need to change,

13:00

and he has to pull away

13:02

a little bit. I also am

13:04

not sure how useful polls

13:06

are that aren't measuring

13:09

third-party alternatives as well as part of

13:11

that head-to-head, right? Because so much of

13:13

this feels like 2016 all over. You've

13:17

had an interesting seat

13:19

to life in Washington. You've

13:21

worked in journalism. You've

13:23

worked on The Hill. You've

13:25

worked in a presidential administration.

13:28

You've worked in the private sector

13:30

for a public affairs

13:32

firm. When you

13:35

evaluate where we sit

13:37

today, nine years

13:39

in to the Trump era,

13:42

the United States is

13:44

a two-party system. You're

13:46

a Democrat. I've been a Democrat

13:48

for the last couple of years,

13:50

but I've spent a long part of

13:53

my career in the Republican Party and

13:55

working at the top levels

13:57

of the party running campaigns.

14:01

If this was a sports league,

14:03

this is a two-team league, why

14:05

can't the Democratic Party put this

14:08

away? What is it

14:10

about the Democratic Party that

14:12

the country is looking at

14:14

and saying, nah, Trump?

14:17

What do you think that is? One, I

14:20

don't know if the entire country is saying, nah, Trump. I

14:25

don't agree with Governor Sununu that

14:28

51% of the country are even saying that. I

14:31

think there's two things. One, and

14:33

this is kind of why I

14:36

want to leave television, our mainstream

14:38

media has really developed a

14:41

dependency on Trump that

14:43

I saw being there in the

14:45

control room, being there

14:47

editorially, there is a dependency, whether

14:49

you are Fox, MSNBC, or CNN.

14:52

I don't think bad news really affects him

14:54

in the way that it has with a

14:57

normal, traditional, conventional political candidate.

15:00

The more saturated we

15:02

are with Trump, I think the

15:04

more immunized voters

15:07

become to him and find

15:09

him entertaining and interesting,

15:12

peculiar and un-politician-like.

15:15

I also think, nah, I just want to say,

15:17

I was on

15:20

the Biden train very early. I

15:23

wanted Biden to run more than anybody because I

15:25

thought he was the one that could beat

15:27

Donald Trump. I was lucky enough to work

15:29

for him and work on that campaign and work

15:31

for his wife and get to know his family. I

15:34

have a lot of affection for the Bidens. I

15:37

was not a no labels person. I was

15:39

not somebody looking for

15:41

an alternative. I thought the president has

15:43

been one of the most effective. You

15:46

can disagree on substance. I

15:48

think he's been one of the most effective presidents

15:50

in my lifetime. I think he will have done

15:52

more in two years than most

15:55

presidents do in four or eight. That

15:57

said, I do think in 2020, If

16:00

you're just pragmatic and you just look

16:02

at politics and you take your team blue

16:05

or team red hat off for a minute, just

16:07

look at the primary and look at

16:09

the general. There were a lot

16:11

of people that gave him the benefit of the doubt, who

16:14

probably didn't want to vote for him, but knew he

16:16

was the guy that could beat Donald Trump, get

16:19

rid of Donald Trump. I

16:21

think there was a lot of people that thought he was going to

16:23

be sort of a

16:26

transition to sort

16:28

of a younger generation of

16:30

political talent. And I think a lot

16:33

of those people thought they were making a deal

16:35

with Joe Biden. And

16:38

I think they're parking their frustrations

16:41

in other places right now because

16:43

they think he broke the deal. And

16:46

that said, like 2016, this

16:49

isn't eat your vegetables and drink your medicine

16:52

election. Like, you have to

16:54

– charisma and charm and cult of

16:56

personality, it's just not a way to

16:59

go about voting for president,

17:01

and particularly when the stakes are so high.

17:05

So I don't know why the Democrats can't put it away,

17:07

but those are two of the reasons I think

17:10

that sort of lead

17:12

us to where we are with how close this election

17:15

appears to be on paper right now.

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18:50

well first of all, I think that

18:53

people thought because age

18:56

has been a factor in the last election too that maybe

18:59

he wouldn't run. There has not been enough president

19:01

his age who has run before. So I don't

19:03

think people saw it. But I

19:05

think Democrats are

19:08

much more establishment

19:10

and elite driven and financial

19:13

driven than even Republicans are these days.

19:15

You know, business has had to take

19:17

a whole new approach to how they

19:20

deal with government and politics because their

19:22

usual allies are no longer allies and

19:24

voters are taking a look at that

19:26

too. And politics

19:29

doesn't change just because of

19:31

moments. And I think if people thought that

19:34

Joe Biden was gonna just hand over power

19:36

willingly from a job that he aspired to

19:39

his entire life, and by the

19:41

way has been pretty good at it,

19:43

that's just not how DC and politics

19:45

works. It's just not. Well which is

19:47

why when King George III found out

19:49

that George Washington was resigning his commission

19:52

and was not going to be a

19:54

king, he said if that's true, he's

19:56

the greatest man of this or any

19:58

age, right? Walking away from from power

20:01

is not something that happens

20:03

very often. And the president

20:06

is making a decision

20:09

and it is Trump versus

20:11

Biden in a very close race, 204

20:13

days out. Let me ask you this

20:16

question. I agree with

20:18

you about the reality of

20:20

politics. But I think that

20:22

one of the great places

20:24

to have seen every

20:26

politician of the last generation

20:28

was sitting where you sat

20:30

on the hardball set in

20:33

Washington. There's nobody

20:36

during the heyday of that show

20:39

who didn't come through those doors. Yeah.

20:42

Who do you remember? Who stands out?

20:44

Well, you know, there's the celebrities, but

20:46

then there are the politicians. And I

20:48

got to say, my favorite guest, the

20:51

one that stood out the most to me because of my

20:53

love for politics at such a young age and,

20:55

you know, sort of fascination

20:58

with John Kennedy and the

21:01

Kennedy fascination, getting

21:04

to spend a few minutes alone

21:06

with Clinton Hill, his Secret Service

21:08

agent. Well, it was Mrs. Kennedy,

21:10

Secret Service agent who jumped

21:13

on the roof of the car. You

21:15

know, there's the image from the Suppruder film that

21:18

shows Jackie Kennedy, I always

21:21

thought, reaching for her agent, but she was

21:23

not. And he told

21:25

me this. And I think I had to go

21:27

back and sort of see myself. But she wasn't

21:29

reaching for him. You know, she was

21:32

reaching for the president's brain matter that

21:34

instantly departed his his body when when

21:37

he that final shot rang out. And

21:39

if you watch the video, go back

21:41

and watch the video. She doesn't look

21:43

for Clinton. She is. She reacts instantaneously

21:45

to just trying to piece

21:48

together. And he

21:50

he'd been somebody I had wanted to meet my

21:52

entire life. And because he was there, he was

21:54

at Ground Zero. And he was a

21:56

he's a fascinating man. And I, you know, I

21:58

thought about it all. a lot as I was working

22:02

for Dr. Biden and in the Secret Service

22:04

bubble and have a lot of respect for the

22:06

Secret Service and what

22:08

they do. And so he was

22:10

one of my the most memorable guests, I

22:12

would say, but you know, there was always

22:15

like fun actors to me, but I'm a

22:17

political junkie. So I definitely enjoyed meeting the

22:19

politicians. And I would say when when

22:21

Newt came on for the first time, you know,

22:24

Newt and him had a really tough relationship. And

22:26

so when he came, we brought him Newt

22:28

is obsessed with like zoo animals and elephants.

22:31

So we got him a cake with with

22:33

an elephant on it when he came into

22:35

hardball on set to be on set with

22:37

Chris. Because you know that that relationship dates

22:39

back to when Chris was a staffer for

22:41

Tip O'Neill. Newt was really the sort of

22:44

a turning point in American politics. I don't

22:46

know how you was the former

22:48

Republican. I think going back to the

22:50

C-SPAN fight, bringing cameras into the house

22:53

and then the was it

22:55

the bloody eighth, the Indiana, Indiana

22:58

race that

23:00

you know, Republicans felt was

23:03

kind of like the Republicans last straw where they

23:05

were taking off the gloves and politics

23:07

changed after that. You know,

23:09

I think about, you know, this

23:11

moment where Trump's criminal

23:14

trial starting in in Manhattan, really

23:16

at the edge, right, the death

23:18

of OJ Simpson. And I think

23:20

about it really like almost like

23:22

full circle, right? I mean, if

23:24

you think about the profound effect

23:26

that that OJ Simpson trial had

23:28

on reshaping the American media event,

23:30

like Greta Van Sustrain today, right,

23:33

the full arc of the journey,

23:35

right, you know, doing the Newsmax

23:37

hustle and the fly light of

23:39

the career that started in the

23:41

OJ Simpson trial,

23:43

all the way full circle.

23:45

Here we are in this era of

23:47

I don't know what Donald Trump is

23:50

starting a criminal trial in

23:52

Manhattan for payments regarding

23:54

porn store, hush money payments,

23:57

business records, fraud case, serious

23:59

matters. one of four trials, the

24:01

only one that will take place before the

24:03

election and we're on the edge of World

24:06

War III, literally

24:08

globally. So it's just

24:10

remarkable moment

24:12

in American politics. And Newt

24:14

Gingrich is an architect, a

24:16

founding father of it. If

24:18

there were ever to be

24:21

a place where Sebastian Gorka

24:23

was carved in paper mache

24:25

into a replica of

24:27

Mount Rushmore of freak showery

24:30

of the Star Wars bar

24:32

scene of the menagerie of

24:34

all of this Trump detritus

24:36

in this moment, right? I

24:38

mean, Gingrich is in the

24:40

middle of the statue. He's

24:43

in the middle of the picture. He's

24:46

the godfather of all. Yeah. And sometimes I

24:48

don't know if it was a brilliant

24:51

evolution and turning point or

24:54

just horribly destructive, but

24:56

putting the cameras in

24:59

the house and then televising one

25:01

minute so that people at

25:03

home were thinking these people

25:05

giving these passionate speeches were delivering

25:09

oratory to a

25:11

room full of hundreds of other members when it

25:13

was really could be just them in the well

25:15

of the house. It was

25:17

interesting. I don't want to say

25:19

revolutionary, but

25:23

it was a turning point for

25:26

political communication and how politicians communicate,

25:28

but also how the media communicates

25:30

and the press reports on what's

25:32

happening in Congress. It

25:36

led to a lot of

25:38

destructive things, some good for Democrats, some bad

25:40

for Democrats. Bill Clinton, I

25:42

think, sort of learned the

25:45

lessons from Gary Hart in terms of

25:47

what was in play and

25:50

was ready for it. Gary

25:52

Hart, you probably

25:54

remember his famous words, how

25:56

the media has turned politicians

25:58

in the house. into the hunted

26:01

and the press into hunters. Now,

26:04

I would say he sort

26:06

of misjudged his own vulnerabilities and

26:09

certainly complaining and whining about the

26:11

press is an age old

26:13

concept, but it doesn't get you what

26:15

you need. And Bill Clinton was

26:17

ready and was

26:20

able to deal with his own

26:22

vulnerabilities and it was pretty gutsy

26:24

to go knowing

26:27

what he, to do what he did and even

26:29

if he was lying, you know, decided

26:31

to go full force on

26:33

60 Minutes, the most watched

26:36

show, still the most watched

26:38

television broadcast new show on

26:40

the night of the Super Bowl when

26:42

everybody is watching with your wife and

26:44

speak to your vulnerabilities and address them

26:46

and confront them head on. And it

26:49

worked, it worked. And I think people

26:51

appreciate people, politicians

26:53

who acknowledge their own vulnerabilities and

26:55

you're rewarded for that. Okay, full

26:58

stop right there because I think

27:01

that's a great inflection point. So

27:03

the president I've written, I've been

27:05

clear, I'm somebody who

27:08

thinks that he made a pretty

27:10

clear commitment. I think that he

27:12

would have claimed to be among

27:14

if not the finest, one of

27:16

the two finest one-term presidents in

27:19

the nation's history. And I wished that

27:22

he was unburdened from politics

27:25

in this very dangerous moment.

27:27

That being said, I support

27:29

him fully completely and

27:32

absolutely. And I am part of

27:34

a cohort that I think is

27:36

large and that I think the

27:38

White House has to contend with

27:40

which is the grumpy Biden

27:42

voter. I don't wanna be told

27:45

that he's FDR. I'm

27:47

not thrilled with the choice at hand

27:49

along with 85% of the country, right?

27:52

But that being the choice,

27:54

it is the choice. Now

27:56

talk about the election.

28:00

What is driving

28:02

something that to me

28:05

is so intuitively and

28:08

obviously wrong-headed? This idea

28:11

that I'm running

28:13

but I'm going to do

28:16

it in a way

28:19

where I'm invisible, where I'm

28:21

not out very often,

28:23

very much, and where

28:26

every appearance is therefore

28:28

heightened into an existential

28:30

event. What's going on

28:32

there? It's like watching a football team

28:35

that repeatedly punts on second down.

28:38

I joined the Biden campaign. Well, first of all,

28:40

I would say a lot of my perspective

28:44

on how you approach the media,

28:46

how politicians approach it, how

28:48

private sector approaches it, is

28:50

rooted in the fact that I was a TV

28:52

producer for seven years, and I was there

28:55

at the moment of transition and lived

28:57

through that transition from what

29:00

I call 2015

29:02

the post-Trump media

29:04

environment, because it really

29:07

did change what the threshold for

29:09

news would become. Remember,

29:11

tweets were now news and

29:13

were now full screens and

29:15

falling into Sunday shows. I mean,

29:17

he changed the rules and the media

29:20

allowed him to. We allowed him

29:22

to. I say that because I was there

29:24

and I was trying to book him all the time for

29:27

my boss. When I walked into

29:30

the Biden campaign, I had

29:32

a frame of reference

29:34

and I had a lot of

29:36

opinions, of course,

29:38

on what I thought Biden should be

29:40

doing, because I think Biden's his best

29:42

advocate. But my

29:44

role was to stay in the other lane.

29:47

I'll never forget this, Steve. We

29:50

were three days out from the

29:52

Iowa caucuses and it

29:54

was January, the end of January, I

29:56

think it was January 30th or something

29:58

like that on a Friday. I was, we

30:00

were in the car, we were in

30:03

Eastern Iowa, me, Jill, and her chief

30:05

of staff. And I was

30:07

reading through the list of folks doing the Sunday

30:09

shows in the Democratic primary. And

30:13

she turned and said, well, why

30:16

doesn't Joe do the Sunday shows? And

30:19

if you think about it, you

30:21

think you're from, are you from Delaware,

30:24

Steve? You know, you know, you say,

30:26

I, okay. But you know, Joe Biden.

30:28

I went to school in Delaware. Right.

30:31

Yeah. You went to school

30:33

with the, the Biden's on the monitor. But

30:36

you know that he's been doing Sunday

30:38

shows his entire life. He was doing a Sunday

30:40

show when his house was burning down. He was

30:43

doing Meet the Press by the House of Bur-

30:45

burning down in Wilmington. And when she asked me

30:47

that, I had no good answer

30:49

at why the, when

30:52

the stakes were so high for his own career,

30:54

four days out from the Iowa clock. He

30:57

had not done a single Sunday show in the

31:00

entire year he'd been running for president. It

31:03

was stunning. You know, three days later,

31:05

the caucuses happened the next Sunday. He

31:09

was certainly booked on a Sunday on his first

31:11

Sunday show appearance. I

31:14

tell you that story only because I think

31:17

there is a need your reaction

31:20

and an impulse. And

31:22

I love a lot of the people that I worked with

31:24

and I respect them. You know, I, I

31:26

come from, I, I came in

31:28

as an outsider into a very layered

31:31

and very insular

31:35

world because these people have been

31:37

around for decades and

31:40

I didn't work in the Obama White

31:42

House or the vice presidents. I wasn't

31:44

a Biden person. And so people resented

31:46

that somebody from not only the outside

31:48

was coming in, but somebody from media

31:50

was coming in to who

31:52

had these relationships with

31:55

reporters and journalists covering the campaign. And, you know,

31:57

they didn't, they didn't like that. And my, my

31:59

approach was. I noticed, Steve, that

32:01

there is a knee-jerk reaction and

32:03

an instinct to constantly protect. And

32:15

that is why I think that... Protect

32:18

from what? What

32:20

are they protecting from? Question. I

32:22

mean, like, it goes back. Some people have brought up the fact

32:24

that, are they... Do they not trust their own candidate? Do they

32:27

not trust their own principal? I

32:29

don't know if that was it. Let me

32:31

ask, let me almost say, kind of

32:33

a role-playing space, right? I've been

32:36

in a lot of

32:38

political meetings in my day,

32:40

right? So you understand what

32:42

I'm getting. Right. So

32:45

I'm picturing a meeting or

32:47

the type of conversations that take

32:49

place as you're rolling along, right?

32:51

And you're almost always rolling along,

32:53

right? You're driving, you're flying, right?

32:55

You're here, there, right? You're in

32:57

a state of constant movement. And

32:59

my question would be, in a

33:02

follow-up to this idea of protection,

33:05

don't you understand that with

33:07

the protection you're offering him,

33:09

you're making him seem disabled?

33:12

That he's not up for this? And

33:16

so does somebody say that

33:18

at the table, or is

33:21

that team so DC, so

33:23

Insular, so cloistered that

33:26

they just won't have it, won't

33:28

hear it, that they don't, for

33:30

whatever reason, grasp that,

33:32

that outside of

33:34

the beltway, the downrange consequence

33:36

of that is that he

33:39

seems unsteady and unable? And,

33:41

you know, Maureen Dowd, who has a

33:44

very complicated history with Biden, going

33:46

back to 87, you know, she

33:48

wrote about this at length back in

33:50

September. And it was,

33:53

go with the flow, Joe. And it wasn't

33:55

really about him, but it was about the

33:57

people around him who are vetting questions in

33:59

the media. or limiting his

34:01

talk time or

34:04

making him enter and exit through the

34:06

belly of the airplane. You know, Steve,

34:08

he was leaving for Israel on his

34:10

Israel trip and the last image the

34:12

world had of him was him trying

34:14

to salute to wave goodbye and

34:17

his head was partly cut off because

34:19

he was in the belly of the

34:21

airplane. So you're not only losing the

34:23

symbolism and the majesty of Air

34:26

Force One walking up to the top and

34:28

turning around, but he can't face the cameras.

34:30

I don't mean to put you on the

34:32

spot here. Can

34:34

the president not make it up the stairs, the

34:36

main stairs on the presidential

34:39

aircraft? Of course he

34:41

can, and I know he can, but it goes back

34:43

to that. So why isn't he? Right,

34:47

because it seems to me that

34:50

what Joe Biden has in

34:52

age is

34:55

trust. I trust in

34:58

a moment of real grave

35:00

danger, right? And I understand

35:03

there's a big opposition, but the

35:05

decision to cloister

35:08

him, where

35:10

does that come from? What I found,

35:12

Steve, from being

35:15

there was it was an impulse

35:19

to protect, to prevent,

35:23

almost like a preventative measure. That

35:26

defense. Yeah,

35:28

there's a fear of taking

35:31

ownership and responsibility. It's just like, you

35:34

know, people want these, want

35:37

to implement strategies, but they're kind

35:39

of scared to take risks because they're

35:41

so scared about what the downside could

35:44

be. And I think

35:46

that fundamentally misjudges the media because

35:49

the new cycle changes so fast. I

35:52

feel like sometimes I'm not

35:54

trying to throw them under the

35:56

bus or be critical, but I feel

36:00

think our media stories are no

36:02

longer media stories these days. Even

36:04

if he slips and

36:06

falls or whatever, there's

36:08

too much other stuff moving at a

36:10

very fast pace in the media that

36:13

are just not media

36:16

stories anymore. And so these

36:19

are the easy things that I think that

36:24

they've really done a disservice to

36:26

him for. I think looking

36:28

ahead, I see an

36:30

issue coming down the tracks and

36:33

that's this question over debates about

36:36

whether these two were going

36:38

to debate. And I see

36:40

this conversation playing

36:43

out in Washington, right? It's

36:46

inconceivable to me that

36:49

the American people in

36:52

an age where they get a vote on everything.

36:54

We pick our pop stores now on a television

36:57

program where people call in

36:59

and vote. And that wasn't the

37:02

case when I was growing up, right? That they're not going

37:04

to see it debate, that they're not going to see the

37:06

heavy weight match,

37:10

that they're not going to

37:13

see the confrontation, mano

37:16

a mano of these

37:18

two men for the

37:20

most powerful office in the world in

37:22

front of the nation. In my

37:25

career, I've heard a lot of conventional

37:28

wisdom that I think is

37:30

off, some of

37:32

it I think has been deranged. I can't think of another

37:36

premise that I find

37:39

more completely ludicrous than the

37:41

notion that seems to exist

37:43

in some places around the

37:46

President, that he's above debating Donald Trump.

37:48

And I think to myself, is

37:52

it possible that there are actually people around

37:54

Biden close in? right

38:01

that are that are behind these blind clothes

38:03

suggesting that he's not going to debate Donald

38:05

Trump and face this man mano a mano

38:08

a mano eye to eye in front of

38:10

the country. I just want to say I

38:12

have no idea but I

38:15

can tell you Joe Biden if

38:18

this debate is held in Moscow Joe

38:20

Biden should be debating. Joe

38:23

Biden needs these debates. His only

38:25

his biggest vote is only vulnerability

38:28

is presentation and

38:31

competency. You know the

38:34

age issue. He was great at the State of

38:36

the Union but he needs this debate and if whether

38:38

there's one or

38:42

two or whatever Joe Biden needs

38:44

these debates. So I

38:46

have no idea if that's it. I

38:48

can't as a political observer my entire

38:50

life I can't imagine

38:52

that there was any

38:55

way any strategy that says that

38:57

that says this is good for

38:59

you but I just don't believe

39:01

it myself. You know a lot

39:03

of people were

39:06

remember there were questions over whether set now

39:08

this is not the same thing obviously but

39:10

people were questioning whether Sederman should

39:12

debate thought he had to. I thought

39:15

anytime you are not confronting

39:17

your opponent no matter

39:19

your vulnerabilities if you don't confront

39:21

your opponent you're gonna lose. I thought

39:24

you know Sederman his performance was

39:26

you know was startling to some

39:28

people. I think it was the story

39:31

would have been much worse if he had backed out

39:33

of his only debate with his with his opponent

39:35

and I think that's the case here Steven you

39:38

tell me if I'm wrong but I think Biden

39:40

will be blamed if they don't

39:42

debate because for

39:44

as much as he as he lies

39:46

Donald Trump and in every

39:49

breath he takes he's the performer and

39:51

he knows how to entertain

39:53

but he also knows how to perform if

39:56

the president can't match his

39:58

performance doesn't appear

40:01

on a debate stage, he will

40:03

get blamed for that. I think that's my

40:05

opinion. That's just a good opinion that backed

40:07

up by Fox. But I think he needs these

40:09

debates more, more than Trump needs these debates. And

40:11

Trump wasn't that great of a debater

40:14

to begin with. Refreshing to hear. Michael

40:17

LaRosa, thank you so much for your time

40:19

and thank you all for watching this edition

40:21

of The Warning. Thank you

40:24

for listening to my political commentary.

40:27

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