0:00

What is up , my nasty New Year's Necromancers

0:02

? On this bonus episode of the Warped Reality

0:04

Podcast , john Wright will be talking about

0:07

Dr Alvin Lawson . We'll talk about

0:09

a heroic flying creature , the

0:11

most haunted house in Australia and

0:13

much , much more so . Pop that bottle

0:15

and let's break some New Year's resolutions

0:17

.

0:19

Do aliens exist and are they

0:21

among us ? Are weird

0:23

creatures lurking in the darkness

0:25

? Do evil entities hide

0:28

in the shadows of your bedroom while you

0:30

sleep ? Join us as we explore

0:32

all this and more on the Warped

0:34

Reality Podcast .

0:40

What is up everyone ? Thank you for joining me on

0:42

this bonus episode of the Warped Reality

0:44

Podcast . I am your host , ghost Joe . So

0:46

on these episodes , these

0:49

bonus episodes , I like to throw

0:51

some different things in the show that

0:53

may not be completely paranormal

0:55

related in essence , but would

0:57

most likely still appeal to

1:00

the majority of this audience . This

1:03

is the case with Edgegrave Dave's

1:05

segment in horrible reviews this

1:07

week , where he speaks about the

1:10

late wrestler Bray Wyatt that

1:12

had recently passed away in the fall . I

1:15

am so sorry , edgegrave , that

1:17

this took so long for me to put out . My

1:20

schedule has been insane and

1:22

I'm just getting around to it now . I

1:25

love you , my friend , and

1:27

yeah , so check it out . Here's

1:29

Edgegrave Dave with horrible reviews . Horrible

1:32

reviews Edgegrave Dave .

1:36

Greetings , gravediggers . Edgegrave . Dave

1:38

is here and , on a very somber

1:40

note , I would like to review , discuss

1:43

and acknowledge a

1:45

wrestler by the name of Wyndham

1:48

Lawrence Rotunda , otherwise

1:50

known as WWE's Bray

1:52

Wyatt , who has just died and passed

1:54

away . At the time

1:56

of this recording , I actually

1:58

just returned from Florida

2:01

. Even I like to get some

2:03

sun every now and again . Take the family

2:05

. I just visited

2:08

my mother-in-law , who had moved

2:10

down to Claremont , florida , outside

2:12

of Orlando , and this is actually

2:15

where Bray Wyatt has

2:17

just died and passed

2:19

away . How ironic

2:22

that life can be . As

2:24

I leave Claremont , he

2:27

left us . Not since the Undertaker

2:29

has there been such an

2:32

innovator and creative

2:35

genius as Bray Wyatt has

2:37

provided us . I

2:39

also do want to mention that

2:42

this also came at the same time

2:44

as another wrestler , terry

2:46

Funk , and if you don't know who he is

2:49

, check him out . He's had some of

2:51

the most gruesome matches in

2:53

history and another

2:55

person that comes back from the Golden

2:57

Age of wrestling . Horror

3:01

comes in many different

3:03

shapes , sizes and

3:06

media , and even

3:08

in this PG era that the WWE

3:11

has , there really wasn't somebody

3:14

quite like Bray Wyatt . His

3:17

father was actually a wrestler

3:19

named IRS . I wasn't

3:21

actually sure if

3:24

he was him until I actually looked it up

3:26

, but Mike Rotunda was his

3:28

father . He also had the

3:31

grandfather of another famous wrestler

3:33

, black Jack Mulligan , and

3:36

I'll never forget when Bray Wyatt

3:38

first came out he was part

3:40

of this really scary , almost Texas

3:43

chainsaw massacre like family

3:45

called the Wyatt family . He came

3:47

out with this lantern and this kind of

3:49

like Louisiana Southern

3:51

type really scary character from

3:53

the swamp . He carried

3:55

this lantern . He always

3:58

called all of his fans fireflies

4:01

and everybody would come out . He

4:03

was a villain at first and

4:08

he had this other scary

4:10

two other characters with

4:12

him . One

4:14

of them I also do want

4:16

to say that we're still feeling Luke

4:18

Harper , who had

4:21

also passed away . We had Luke Rowe

4:23

and we had these three

4:25

scary men with beards and

4:27

for a while Braun Strowman was

4:29

part of that too . But not to digress

4:32

here , he brought such a

4:34

hard type of element to him

4:36

, some of the craziest matches that

4:39

you've ever seen . The way that he

4:41

infiltrated matches

4:43

, the way that he struck fear

4:45

. He fought people

4:48

like Randy Orton , john

4:50

Cena , when the shield was around

4:53

, when you had Roman Reigns , dean Ambrose

4:55

and Seth Rollins , things

4:59

just imploded and he

5:01

just really gave so much . And

5:03

at the last raw anniversary , the

5:05

Undertaker it looked like there was even a

5:08

passing of the torch to this character

5:10

, the way that he

5:12

would terrorize wrestlers . There were early

5:14

comparisons to Charles Manning

5:17

Hanson . The character did draw comparisons

5:19

to Robert De Niro's portrayal of the character

5:21

Max Caddy from the 1991

5:24

film Cape Fear . Later

5:28

on , when he returned

5:30

, he actually had this brilliant

5:32

idea which was like a Mr Rogers

5:34

type of horror show called the Firefly

5:37

Funhouse man . This was creepy

5:39

. You had these puppets

5:41

, you had this buzzard type

5:43

character . You had this scary type of

5:45

Vince McMahon . He

5:48

had this sort of split personality

5:50

where he was Bray Wyatt

5:53

, but in a more Mr Rogers

5:55

kind of a way , not so much

5:58

that really kind of sneaky

6:00

swamp Texas chainsaw massacre

6:02

character with the long beard and the hat and the

6:04

Hawaiian shirt . Now he came in this

6:06

kind of children's type

6:08

sweater , kind of nice

6:11

guy but sinister type character , and

6:14

then when he wrestled his

6:16

split personality was the Fiend , which

6:18

is this grotesque clown where

6:21

the lights would turn off and

6:23

he actually had a mask . That

6:25

was commissioned by Tom Savini

6:28

yes , the very Tom

6:30

Savini that was responsible for creating

6:32

Jason and the Friday , the 13th franchise

6:35

and Dawn of the Dead

6:37

and so many other things . And

6:40

Tom Savini , as I have mentioned

6:42

in other podcasts

6:44

and reviews , has just given so

6:47

much to horror and

6:49

to the community . I

6:52

was overjoyed that he was

6:54

part of that . As

6:56

being the leader of the

6:58

Wyatt family and as being

7:00

this villainous sort

7:02

of cult , he really did

7:04

strike fear and really make

7:07

people think he was a very psychological

7:09

wrestler , even though that he was a very big

7:11

man . He took part

7:14

in some excellent feuds

7:16

storylines and also eventually

7:18

even corrupting Alexa Bliss

7:20

, who really

7:23

sort of started out as almost this like

7:25

Barbie style cheerleader , eventually

7:27

being this almost like Harley

7:29

Quinn character with all these

7:31

sort of horror type aspects , really

7:34

fully turned into this kind of gothic

7:37

character with his doll and the

7:39

creativity that Bray

7:41

Wyatt had to help to make other people

7:44

relevant was just unparalleled

7:47

. It was unbelievable

7:49

. He

7:52

was just somebody that also gave

7:54

back very much . I heard stories about

7:56

how kind that he was and

7:58

just about how he let new people

8:00

in and he just did so much for

8:02

the industry . In

8:05

many ways he

8:07

was like our undertaker

8:09

in a sense . After the undertaker

8:11

retired and the

8:14

whole passing of the torch on that

8:16

last sort

8:18

of legacy , roy , that

8:20

they had , it was just . It

8:23

was a great ceremony , just

8:27

if you do have a subscription

8:29

to Peacock , which is where the

8:31

WWE Network now lies , or if you

8:33

just go on to YouTube just look

8:35

him up . He's

8:37

the eater of worlds . His entrance

8:40

, the way that he came out in the rocking chair

8:43

, the way that people

8:45

just gravitated towards him , he was

8:47

just really something to see . And

8:50

he was also one of the first wrestlers to have

8:52

cinematic matches too , where

8:54

there was this white family compound

8:56

. And I remember also

8:59

that he had this crazy cinematic

9:01

match where John Cena was in

9:03

that Firefly Fun House

9:06

and it's just when he

9:08

came on it's , I

9:10

mean , in the PG era . There's

9:13

kids watching this , there's . It

9:15

just really sort of stopped

9:19

everything , where you have to look and say what

9:21

is he gonna do next ? So

9:24

, in the spirit of

9:27

just sharing

9:29

our condolences , I

9:31

just do want to thank Wyndham Bray

9:34

Wyatt for everything that he's

9:36

done for the industry , for helping

9:39

make new people fans

9:41

, for

9:43

really showing that horror is a way

9:45

of entertainment and in a way

9:48

, it's also a gateway to many

9:50

movies too . You

9:52

might watch this and say where does he

9:54

draw his influences from ? What can

9:56

I check out ? What can I see ? And

9:58

that's just it . The

10:01

wrestling community and , as I've mentioned

10:04

in previous podcasts . The horror community

10:06

is some of the

10:09

warmest , most genuine people that you

10:11

can find and even having a conversation

10:14

with somebody

10:16

about some of your favorite

10:18

things that you've seen . It's just a

10:20

great kind of a brotherhood

10:22

and a community . Oddly

10:25

enough , I did check out a

10:27

place called Hulk Hogan's Beach Shop . There

10:30

is a spot in Orlando

10:32

as well as in Clearwater , and

10:34

it's just so odd because

10:36

I go

10:38

there and , like this little kid , I was taking

10:40

pictures in the ring that

10:42

he had which was half Hulkamania

10:45

and half NWO

10:47

when he was the evil Hollywood Hogan

10:49

and it just sort of pumped me up in this wrestling

10:52

mood . And then I get

10:54

a text from my

10:56

brother , the confessions

10:59

of an angry metalhead , mike Alexander

11:01

, a Terry Funk passed away , and

11:03

then I find out that Bray Wyatt passed

11:06

away . It just really sort of makes you

11:08

think of your own mortality . So I

11:10

know that we're kind of getting dark here and

11:13

even darker than usual , but I

11:15

just want everybody out there

11:17

just celebrate

11:20

, just take

11:23

all these icons and

11:25

all these people that entertain you , appreciate

11:28

them and just use

11:32

it to just kind of relax , to

11:34

unwind and just

11:36

make sure that you have fun the way that

11:39

you want to have fun and do what you want

11:41

to do , because , though it's a

11:43

short ride , life

11:45

could be also a really fun ride . So , all

11:48

right , enough of this ride over

11:50

here . Next time

11:52

we're going to go back to our regularly

11:54

scheduled horrible reviews . But

11:57

why don't you go on Peacock

11:59

and check out an awesome

12:01

match , and hopefully it'll

12:05

leave you in a really good place and that's

12:07

a great way to celebrate . So

12:09

I rate

12:11

this guy five

12:13

out of five graves for what he's done for

12:16

the wrestling community and just for the entertainment

12:18

that he's provided us . So thank

12:21

you very much . Bray , wyatt , windham

12:23

, rotunda we got a grave

12:25

for you , my friend . All right , take

12:28

care , edge , grave out .

12:31

Hey , thanks a lot , Dave , for that awesome

12:34

segment . Yeah , for

12:36

me , I was never really

12:38

into the wrestling

12:42

community . I never really got into

12:44

it as a kid , as an adult it was

12:46

never really a big thing for me , but

12:48

I do understand the

12:50

loyalty and how

12:53

big and how great the community

12:55

, the wrestling community , is and

12:58

how important it is to everybody as well . It

13:01

goes the same as far as the

13:03

paranormal community , the podcasting

13:06

community , the horror community

13:08

, and even another thing

13:10

that I'm very subscribed to is

13:13

the hard rock and heavy metal community

13:15

is also very , very loyal and

13:18

everybody's kind of like a huge , huge

13:20

family and it's

13:22

just really fun . Everybody

13:25

gets together and talks about their

13:28

experiences with everything . So

13:30

I am very , very happy to feature this

13:33

segment on the show today . It

13:35

really seemed like it meant a lot to you and

13:38

again , I am extremely

13:41

sorry that it took me so long to put it out

13:43

and but I'm

13:45

glad to do it anytime . And

13:48

yeah , man . So rest in

13:50

peace to Gray

13:52

Wyatt and my

13:54

condolences to his family and all of his fans

13:57

. So a woman was

13:59

driving with her two children in Central

14:01

Ecuador when her van started

14:03

careening out of control and was

14:05

headed towards a very large cliff when

14:08

, out of nowhere , giant wings

14:10

appeared , enveloping and

14:13

enveloping , enveloping

14:15

and yeah , the

14:18

van and stopping it from going

14:20

over . The woman was totally

14:22

confused and wasn't really sure

14:24

what or who it was that saved them

14:26

. Was it a thunderbird , was

14:28

it an angel ? Who the hell knows ? Of

14:31

course she's grateful for this happening

14:33

, but she's a little concerned that this

14:35

creature may return Her kids

14:37

. Oddly don't remember anything , though

14:39

this was an account that I

14:41

had read from a message on

14:43

the FeedSpot message boards . So

14:46

now let's get into our right

14:48

headspace with our buddy John

14:50

Wright and his segment about

14:52

UFO expert Dr

14:55

Alvin Lawson . Take it away

14:57

, john .

14:58

Thank you , joe , glad to be back . This

15:01

new segment is dedicated to Dr

15:03

Alvin Lawson . I entitled

15:06

this one Thank God for Skeptics and Unsung

15:08

Heroes . In regards to education

15:11

, dr Lawson was

15:13

able to achieve a bachelor's

15:15

degree in English from Berkeley in 1952

15:18

, a master's degree in English

15:21

from Stanford in 1958 , a

15:24

PhD in English from Stanford

15:26

in 1967 . As

15:29

far as credentials are concerned , he taught

15:31

at Cal State , long Beach , from 1962

15:34

through the mid 1990s . One

15:37

of the things that I thought was really interesting was

15:39

he actually taught a UFO

15:41

literature course . What

15:43

he believed was that this topic

15:45

pushed the students to use their creative

15:48

and descriptive writing to explain

15:50

the phenomenon . In 1970s

15:53

he was also credited with starting

15:55

what they refer to as the UFO Reporting

15:57

Center of Orange County , california . Now

16:00

I know you heard me go through his

16:03

education background and none of the things that showed

16:05

up was neuropsychologist

16:07

or anything about psychiatry

16:10

or anything along those lines . So

16:12

why am I talking about this guy ? In regards to

16:14

hypnotic regression , in

16:17

full disclosure , I'd never heard of Dr

16:19

Lawson prior to becoming a UFO investigator

16:22

, nor had I heard of

16:24

the experiments that he had conducted

16:26

. I was familiar

16:28

with the usual suspects , like

16:31

Dr Simon , sprinkle

16:34

, mcdonald , hopkins , etc . It

16:37

wasn't until I read Curtis Peeples Watch

16:39

the Skies that I was introduced to this . I'm

16:41

going to call him Believer , who

16:43

maintained an objective and somewhat skeptical approach to

16:47

the UFO puzzle . I

16:52

truly believe that Dr Lawson

16:55

does not get the accolades or the acknowledgements

16:57

that he rightly deserves . And

17:00

again I come back to no , he wasn't a neuropsychologist

17:03

, but what he was was an intelligent person

17:05

and , yes , he had an interest

17:07

in UFOs . But he never

17:09

, ever let that kind of ruin

17:12

his objectivity and

17:15

that's the reason why I think this guy

17:17

is such an interesting character

17:19

, especially when you take into

17:21

account During this timeframe

17:23

it's you have all these different

17:25

sort of quote , unquote experts who

17:27

blindly believed any and all claims

17:29

of people claiming to be abducted

17:32

. I

17:34

refer to him as a voice or

17:36

reason and I'm going to

17:38

call it a dark time . Why

17:40

? Because he dared to ask the question what

17:43

if these stories are just a

17:45

product of being hypnotized ? In my mind

17:47

it's what if these stories are just stories

17:49

? So

17:52

he was able to get into contact with another

17:54

gentleman that he worked with , dr William McCall , and

17:57

they brought up the hypothesis of what

17:59

if we do a controlled experiment to

18:01

test the idea that maybe

18:04

these stories are a product of

18:06

being hypnotized , or maybe

18:09

it's just something that comes from

18:11

somebody's creative mind . So

18:14

he , along with Dr Herrera

18:16

, who they know as a technical writer

18:19

, and Dr McCall , began their experiment

18:21

. So how does it all get started

18:23

? So the screening process

18:25

is where all this kind of comes together

18:28

. They send out an

18:31

advertisement in the local university

18:34

newspaper and what

18:36

they were looking to do was see if they could find

18:38

people to fit like three criteria . They

18:41

were looking for people who had never seen a UFO

18:43

, they were looking for people who

18:45

were not interested in

18:47

UFOs and they were looking for people

18:50

who did not claim , or

18:52

were ever thought to have experienced

18:55

any sort of abductions . In

18:58

the actual advertisement in the newspaper

19:01

. They'd asked for people who were quote

19:03

unquote creative verbal types , and

19:07

they wound up receiving a number of responses

19:09

and they went through an interview process

19:11

to kind of filter out those who did not

19:13

fit the above criteria . And

19:16

so it begins . They were able

19:18

to pare this down to roughly about eight

19:21

people for the

19:23

experiment . Now

19:25

, as far as the experiment was concerned , dr

19:27

McCall is the one who would conduct

19:30

the hypnosis and

19:33

, from what it says , he would put them into

19:35

a deep trance , like hypnotic

19:37

state . He would then tell the subject

19:39

that they had been taken aboard a flying saucer

19:42

and given a physical exam . The

19:44

subject was asked to describe

19:47

his or her experience . They

19:50

noted that each session lasted approximately

19:52

about one hour . Now

19:54

, both Dr Lawson and Dr Herrera

19:56

, prior to the start of the experiment

19:59

, had talked about what they thought

20:01

would come out of this and they believed

20:03

that Dr McCall was going to have to do a

20:05

lot of prompting and coaxing

20:07

and things along that nature to try and get

20:10

some of the responses that we'll

20:12

call them . Real . Abductees

20:14

had reported experiencing

20:17

Watch

20:19

. To their surprise , dr McCall

20:22

said that it really didn't take

20:24

a whole lot to get their

20:27

desired results . As

20:29

far as prompts are concerned , he

20:32

basically , when he would put them under , he would let them

20:34

talk and let them talk freely , and

20:37

he said the most frequent prompts were can

20:39

you describe the interior , meaning the craft

20:41

, and then from there , maybe

20:44

every once in a while , what's happening ? Now

20:46

, just to have them clarify

20:49

what it was that they were experiencing at the time

20:51

. When you compare this

20:53

to some of the other things that we've seen or heard

20:55

and I'm going to use

20:58

butthockens because again , I'm

21:00

sorry , I can't stand it , it just drives me nuts

21:02

. You have other guys like McDonald

21:04

and Sprinkel and so on . When

21:07

you look at what it was that they did compared

21:09

to what McCall did , what

21:11

McCall did is very minor

21:14

in the scheme of things compared

21:16

to what these other ufologists did

21:18

. What

21:21

I also thought was courageous on

21:23

the part of Dr McCall and

21:26

on the part of Dr Lawson is they

21:28

would actually ask UFO

21:31

investigators to come in and be

21:33

a part of this process , and

21:35

I'll come back to that a little bit later on . As

21:38

far as the results of the experiment are concerned

21:40

, dr Lawson had

21:42

compared the results of his

21:45

real or his

21:47

abductees or imaginary

21:49

abductees , to those of

21:51

the real abduction stories

21:53

. Now , this included a number

21:55

of a lot of the stories you've probably heard

21:57

of , one of the more widely

21:59

known ones being the hill abduction . What

22:02

he noted was that there were no

22:04

substantive differences between the

22:06

real and the imagined accounts

22:08

. He concluded that this

22:10

study had provided evidence showing that

22:13

imaginary abduction subjects

22:15

under hypnosis report

22:17

UFO experiences which seem

22:19

identical to those of real

22:22

witnesses , ie abductees

22:24

. Dr

22:26

Lawson used the information from the study to

22:28

write a paper . That paper was

22:30

titled what we Can Learn from Hypnosis

22:33

of Imaginary Abductees

22:36

. The paper would appear in the

22:38

November 1977 edition

22:40

of the Mufon UFO Journal . What

22:44

I would tell you to do is , if you go

22:46

online , take a look . You might be

22:48

able to find it . The

22:50

way that I was able to find it was through

22:53

a website called weekinweirdcom

22:56

. It was on their website

22:58

. They had done a couple different articles . They

23:00

did a part one and a part two . You were

23:02

able to read through part one and then you were able

23:04

to click on it and it would take you to part

23:08

two . Going

23:11

through that , it gives you somewhat of a summary

23:14

of the paper . Now

23:16

, what I thought was this

23:18

was kind of an enlightening article

23:20

. The findings I thought were

23:22

most interesting from the article

23:24

deal with a few different categories

23:27

. So I'll try to categorize , I'll

23:29

try to be as specific as I can

23:31

, try to give as much info as I can and

23:34

, joe , I'm doing my best to try and keep this to

23:36

about 15 minutes . You'll

23:38

have to forgive me if I go over by a minute or so . One

23:42

of the things that really popped out to me was they

23:44

did these with couples , meaning like

23:47

a husband and a wife or a boyfriend and girlfriend

23:49

. They also did this with twins

23:51

and , excuse me , one

23:54

of the things that they called it was multiple

23:57

witness abductions and

24:00

one of the things that had come out of this was they

24:03

noticed one witness would

24:05

kind of dominate the conversation

24:07

, but that one witness

24:09

was , we'll say , more positive about

24:12

the abduction . They were more articulate

24:14

and they were more cooperative

24:17

with investigators . Dr

24:19

Lawson provided several real

24:21

examples that were identical to the imaginary

24:24

abductee cases and he said

24:26

the most notable among them was Betty and Barney

24:28

Hill , one of the things that they had noted

24:30

, with the whole single

24:32

person dominating , there were times

24:34

where the man

24:37

or whoever it was the opposite

24:39

of whoever it was that was dominating the

24:42

conversation would usually ask

24:44

to be woken up because there really

24:46

wasn't anything that they could add to the conversation

24:49

. And once that person had

24:51

been brought out of that trans-like

24:53

state , the person who was still

24:55

under would then take

24:57

bits and pieces of information that

24:59

were stated by the partner

25:02

and they would start kind of weaving those

25:04

things together to make a story . And

25:06

if we take a look at the Betty and Barney Hill thing , if

25:09

you take a look at the very early reports

25:11

that come out of that , the very early tapes , and

25:14

you'll find that Betty

25:16

and Barney had completely and totally different stories

25:18

, but then , as time goes by , their stories start

25:20

to become one , and one

25:23

of the things that Dr Simon noted

25:25

when he was treating them was

25:27

that Betty tended to be the more dominant

25:30

of the two . The second

25:32

thing that came out of this that I thought

25:34

was really fascinating was what they refer to as

25:36

verbal phenomena associated with hypnotic

25:39

regression . So this

25:41

one dealt with witnesses who were recounting

25:43

what

25:45

was said to them by their alien abductors , and

25:48

in this process they would experience some

25:50

different things . One of the things that

25:53

they would experience is stuttering . So

25:55

the one particular case that they talk about

25:57

there was a gentleman who was asked what was

25:59

being said to him by the aliens . While

26:02

he's sitting there on the

26:04

examining table and throughout

26:07

the whole entire session

26:10

, this gentleman was able to relay

26:12

his information seamlessly and

26:14

for whatever reason . Once it came to what

26:16

was it that the aliens were saying directly

26:18

to him , all of a sudden he started to stutter

26:20

. Now , in reality , he didn't stutter

26:23

. He didn't stutter prior

26:25

to being asked about what he was being told by

26:27

the aliens , and he didn't stutter after

26:29

he was asked other information

26:31

, and it had absolutely nothing to

26:33

do with his alien abductors . The

26:36

other thing that they had noticed was what

26:38

they refer to as verbal blocks . In

26:41

some occasions the witnesses were asked

26:44

for to articulate

26:46

more information about whatever it might be

26:48

the interior of the craft or what was going

26:50

on and they said , in certain

26:52

cases some people would for seconds

26:55

, wouldn't say a word , they would

26:57

have to sit there . I'm assuming on my

26:59

part they'd have to sit there and

27:01

kind of think of , well , what's going

27:03

on and then try to come up with something

27:05

, and he said this would last from

27:07

several seconds to several

27:10

minutes . Another

27:12

one that I thought was really , really interesting

27:15

is they did a comparison

27:17

of drawings . So there was

27:19

a team of UFO investigators

27:22

that had done a case just a couple months

27:24

prior to the experiment taking

27:26

place . During their investigation

27:29

they had actually asked a quote

27:31

, unquote real abductee to

27:33

do a drawing of what it was that

27:35

they had seen and what the ship looked like and

27:38

all the other things that had gone along with that

27:40

. Now this team

27:42

of investigators was brought

27:44

in and did an interview or

27:46

asked questions during one of the hypnotic sessions

27:48

of a imaginary

27:50

abductee . In

27:53

the end the real

27:56

and the not real abductees

27:59

came up with I won't call it identical

28:02

, but man . They were so

28:04

, so similar in the

28:06

way that they drew things , the way that they spaced

28:09

things . Maybe the wording was slightly

28:11

different compared to what

28:13

they would call the real abductees , but

28:16

for the most part , man , I would say these things were probably

28:18

about 85 , 90%

28:20

similar . When

28:23

Dr Lawson was asked why were those things

28:25

so similar to one another , one

28:27

of his comments was well , maybe

28:29

it's possible that these people were influenced

28:32

by ESP in some way

28:34

, shape or form . I'm going

28:36

to come up with what I think is

28:39

and again , I'm not a doctor , not

28:41

an expert by any stretch of the imagination

28:43

but what I think is a

28:45

much more logical explanation

28:47

of what happened here . So

28:49

I always come back to common denominators

28:51

. What is the common denominator in

28:53

this case ? I'm going to say the investigators

28:56

. So you have these UFO

28:58

investigators . They have experienced

29:00

with this previous case . I

29:03

didn't hear the interview , I haven't listened

29:05

to tapes or anything like that , so I

29:07

have no idea what questions they asked . I don't

29:09

know how they asked these questions . Is

29:11

it possible that during this process

29:14

they were able to relay some

29:16

information in what they

29:18

said or how they said to the

29:20

imaginary abductee

29:23

and then they were able to

29:25

kind of the abductee

29:27

was kind of able to take that information and

29:29

sort of run with that . So my

29:31

logical explanation would be there

29:33

has to be some sort of connection

29:36

because of the simple fact that you have

29:38

the same people conducting both

29:40

interviews and you have the same

29:42

result , or an almost same result

29:45

, from both interviews . The

29:47

other thing that I thought was it absolutely

29:50

blew my mind was the

29:52

parallel between a person's medical

29:54

history and physical examinations

29:57

on the part of abductees

29:59

. Excuse me

30:01

, I'm sorry . So one

30:03

of the things that they noted and I'll give you a couple of quick examples

30:06

, so it's

30:08

a very small sample size and one of the

30:10

things that Dr Lawson had said

30:12

was admittedly it's a small

30:14

sample size and he believed

30:17

that it was possible that the

30:19

abductees were drawing

30:22

on prior medical emergencies

30:25

or experiences that they had prior to their

30:27

abductions and it was kind of like

30:29

one of those we'll call it a fill-in-the-blank

30:32

, so to speak situation where maybe

30:34

they were asked , it took them a couple seconds

30:37

to come up with a response to satisfy

30:39

the person who was doing the investigation or

30:41

asking the questions , and

30:44

it like boom , all of a

30:46

sudden it clicked and they remembered having

30:48

this experience . One

30:50

of the examples that he gives is Sandy

30:52

Larson . So , if I remember

30:55

correctly , sandy Larson was a from

30:57

North Dakota and when she was

30:59

abducted she had mentioned

31:02

something to the effect of having

31:04

something placed over her face , that

31:07

she had her sinuses scraped by

31:10

her by her alien examiner

31:12

. What they found out afterward

31:15

was prior to her abduction

31:17

she had actually had sinus

31:19

surgery . Another example

31:21

that he gives is there was a

31:24

California woman and unfortunately

31:26

they don't give a name in this particular case

31:28

. She , along with her sisters , had

31:30

been abducted and during the

31:33

abduction process or the examination

31:35

process she had been catheterized

31:38

. Now come to find out afterward

31:40

, same or similar

31:42

situation with Sandy Larson . This

31:45

woman had been in a hospital

31:47

, she had a hospital stay prior to

31:49

her abduction , sometime prior to the abduction , and

31:52

during that hospital stay she had actually

31:54

been catheterized

31:56

. There's another case

31:58

I'm trying to remember where it was that I saw

32:01

it , but somebody else had an issue . They had

32:03

to have their tonsils removed and

32:05

when they were under hypnosis

32:09

, had said to something to the effect of

32:11

having surgery done on their face and

32:13

their throat and that kind of thing . Come to find out

32:16

this woman had a tonsillectomy

32:18

when she was much , much younger . In

32:21

conclusion , dr

32:23

Lawson will go on to present his information

32:26

to the first International UFO

32:28

Congress in June of 1977

32:30

. A month later he presents that information

32:32

to Mufon in a conference in 1977

32:36

. He received cold receptions from both groups

32:38

and would be heavily criticized

32:41

by basically by the

32:43

UFO world . The one thing

32:45

he compared it to . It's kind of like if

32:47

you have somebody who is overly

32:49

religious and he was like the

32:52

, the atheist

32:54

, that was kind of being

32:56

thrown into the equation . People

32:58

didn't like it . The UFO people didn't like it , because

33:01

here's a guy who's asking a question

33:03

that nobody really wanted to ask . One

33:06

of the things that always pops

33:08

up in my head when I start looking at this stuff

33:10

is and I'm a history teacher those

33:13

who do not know their history are doomed

33:15

to repeat it . I try not to use that

33:17

in my class if I can help it

33:20

, but I can't think

33:22

of another case where it's more true . Think

33:26

about it what's going on

33:28

right now was repeated in the 90s

33:30

, was repeated in the 80s , was repeated in the

33:32

70s and the 60s and so on , and

33:35

it still continues to this day . We

33:39

live in a world where critical thinking is

33:41

at an all-time low . We have

33:43

people who idolize these false

33:45

prophets of the UFO world and they

33:47

make bold claims and they provide the zero

33:49

evidence to back these claims , and

33:52

people just blindly follow

33:54

this stuff . These guys

33:57

tell us to weaponize our curiosity

33:59

by subscribing to their podcasts

34:01

, their YouTube channels or

34:04

by buying their books , and

34:06

then , when someone urges

34:08

them to take a step back and think

34:10

for a moment , think for ourselves . Or

34:13

question whistleblowers where did they get

34:15

this information ? How come they can't

34:17

support their claims ? The

34:20

false prophets , their credulous followers

34:22

they're like locusts . They

34:24

just swarm and attack those people

34:27

who are asking them to

34:29

provide the evidence

34:31

. Those people who are pursuing the truth

34:33

are attacked for just asking

34:35

simple questions . I

34:38

think we need more people like Dr

34:40

Lawson , guys like a Phil

34:42

Kloss , people who

34:44

are out there pursuing the truth and

34:46

pushing the envelope . I

34:49

would throw in a couple other names too John

34:52

Greenwald Jr . You have

34:54

guys like Jack Brewer . All

34:56

these people when they do their work and

34:59

that's why I follow these guys is because of the

35:01

simple fact that any claims that they make

35:03

, they always provide the evidence

35:05

and where they got that evidence , and they're

35:09

very upfront and transparent about

35:11

what they did , how they got it and

35:13

how they came to their conclusions

35:15

, and I think that's one of the things

35:17

that people need to be

35:20

more cognizant

35:22

about is going about making sure

35:25

that you don't just blindly

35:27

believe what people throw in front of you . If

35:29

you do those things , if you are more critical

35:32

, if you ask those questions , I

35:35

think in the end it will definitely

35:37

leave you in a much , much better

35:40

headspace . That's it for me

35:42

, john . I'm gonna kick it back to you . Thanks a lot

35:44

.

35:45

Thanks , john . I definitely

35:47

believe that we do need skeptics

35:50

in this world and especially

35:52

in the paranormal community . You

35:55

know you want to look at things . When

35:57

you're experiencing something and when you're investigating

35:59

something , you want to look at the logical

36:01

explanation first . You know

36:03

, if you hear a noise in your attic

36:05

, you want to check for leaks

36:07

, you want to check for rodents and stuff

36:10

like that , before you go and say it's

36:12

Uncle Bob up there , you know

36:15

. But at the same token , if

36:17

Uncle Bob is in front of your

36:20

bed and he's hovering , you

36:22

know , five feet over the ground

36:24

he passed away 20 years ago and

36:27

you're looking straight at him , you

36:29

know , chances are that's

36:31

the real thing , unless you're dreaming , you

36:33

know , but that's

36:36

definitely . We definitely need skeptics in

36:38

this community . With

36:40

that said , you know , thank you so much for your

36:42

segment , john

36:44

. I totally appreciate it . By

36:46

the way , guys , if you have any paranormal experiences

36:49

you would like to share , or if you're

36:51

a paranormal investigator author

36:53

, you know to do with paranormal or anything

36:56

like that or any unexplained stuff , please

36:58

get in touch with me , 845-600-0744

37:02

, or you can email me at ghostjoenyhemailcom

37:05

. You can do so anonymously if

37:07

you'd like , and I would love to hear

37:09

your experiences . So , as promised

37:12

, on to the last segment , here we

37:15

are going to talk about possibly

37:18

the most haunted spot

37:20

in Australia . It

37:22

is called the Monte Cristo

37:24

Homestead . In New

37:26

South Wales , australia , lies

37:28

arguably the most haunted

37:31

house in Australia

37:33

. It was built by a farmer named Christopher

37:35

Crawley for his family in the town

37:37

of Junie . They lived in a very

37:39

desolate and poor life until Mr

37:41

Crawley , crowley Crowley

37:44

. Mr Crowley

37:46

, if you know

37:48

, you know changed his status

37:50

in 1878 when

37:52

the Great Southern Railway Line opened

37:55

. He scraped together all of

37:57

his money to build and open

37:59

the railway hotel . It was pretty

38:02

much one of the only businesses in town

38:04

and it thrived . And Mr Crawley

38:07

, mr Crawley became

38:09

quite wealthy . He was revered

38:12

and loved by the town folk for his generosity

38:15

. But this isn't where the story

38:17

ends . Mr Crawley

38:19

had died . I love saying

38:21

that , by the way , because it really reminds

38:24

me of Mr Crawley . An

38:26

Aussie song had died

38:28

due to blood poisoning in 1910

38:30

and his wife , elizabeth , had locked herself

38:33

inside the house because she

38:35

couldn't cope with the loss of her husband

38:37

. She eventually passed away

38:39

in 1933 at the age of 92

38:42

. Unfortunately , from

38:44

1948 until it was purchased

38:46

in 1963 , the house

38:48

was vandalized and everything was

38:51

sold and stolen . It was

38:53

purchased in 1963

38:55

by Reginald and Olive

38:58

Ryan and they had restored

39:00

it back to its original state , including

39:03

a doll museum . That's

39:05

, quite randomly , a very

39:07

creepy addition . But when

39:09

they had first moved in they had noticed

39:11

that their animals didn't want to enter

39:13

the house . They would find the lights

39:16

on after turning them off and had heard

39:18

strange noises . It's

39:20

believed that the homestead is haunted by

39:22

at least 10 ghosts . Apparently

39:25

the previous owners didn't

39:28

like animals because , besides

39:30

the other nonviolent occurrences , the

39:32

Rians had found all of their chickens

39:34

strangled to death . I

39:37

guess they really choked a lot of chickens

39:39

. Anyway , also

39:41

their parrot was choked to death , and

39:44

the parrot was still in the cage . A

39:46

litter of kittens that they had raised

39:49

were also found brutally killed

39:51

. Well , that's terrible . Christopher Crawley's

39:53

ghost is said to haunt the

39:56

homestead along with his wife , and

39:58

if she doesn't want you there , you'll

40:00

feel icy , cold air hitting

40:02

your skin . Christopher Crawley

40:05

had gotten two

40:07

of his housemates pregnant , one

40:10

of which committed suicide while pregnant , and

40:12

sometimes a ghostly

40:15

bloody stain still appears

40:17

to show up where she had landed from

40:19

time to time . The second maid ended

40:22

up having the child . She named him

40:24

Harold . Harold was unfortunately

40:27

involved in a horrific accident hit

40:30

by a coach which caused

40:32

him brain damage . He

40:34

was kept in chains in the house all

40:36

the time . The kids would mock

40:39

him . School kids would walk by and

40:41

mock him because they would hear his screams

40:43

coming from the outside . His ghostly

40:45

screams and rattling chains can

40:47

still be heard to this day . The

40:50

coach house is haunted by a young , stable

40:53

boy also named Morris . He

40:55

didn't feel well one day and decided to

40:57

stay in bed at the coach house . His

41:00

master didn't approve of that

41:02

and had put the boys

41:04

straw mattress on fire , thinking

41:07

he would jump up and get to work . You know , of course

41:09

, why , wouldn't you know ? Hey , light a fire

41:11

under his ass , right , but Morris

41:14

was too ill and he couldn't get up , so

41:16

he ended up dying in his bed . People

41:19

hear his screams up until today actually

41:21

. Another haunting is that of

41:23

Crowley's infant granddaughter

41:26

, ethel , who died in 1917

41:29

from one of the housemates dropping her

41:31

down the stairs . Some guests to

41:33

the homestead feel as though they are being pushed

41:35

on their backs or claimed to feel

41:37

an icy , cold , tiny hand holding

41:39

their hand when they walk upstairs

41:42

. There are more hauntings as well

41:44

, including disembodied whispers

41:46

, unexplained mists , orbs

41:48

flying around , as well as poltergeist

41:51

activity . So if you ever

41:53

go to this part of Australia

41:55

or if you've ever been there , please

41:58

give me a call . You know the number by now , but

42:00

I'll say it again it's 845-600-0744

42:04

, or email me at ghostshowny

42:06

at gmailcom . Well

42:08

, that's going to do it for me , guys . I

42:10

hope you enjoyed this bonus episode . On

42:13

the next episode , more horrible reviews with

42:15

that's Grave , dave Haunted , ebay

42:17

and Paranormal News . Have an

42:19

awesome new year , everybody Later .

42:21

Thank you for listening to the what Reality podcast

42:23

and thank you to all my guests and contributors

42:25

that helped make this show possible . For

42:27

more episodes , guests info , social media

42:30

links and more . Please check out

42:32

WhatRealityPodcastcom If

42:34

you have a paranormal experience , you would like to share

42:36

questions , comments or you would

42:38

like to be a guest on the show . Please leave me

42:40

a voicemail at 845-600-0744

42:44

or you can email me at ghostshowny

42:46

at gmailcom . You can do so anonymously

42:49

if you'd like . Also , I'd greatly appreciate

42:51

it if you could leave me a review on Apple Podcasts

42:54

or WhatRealityPodcastcom . Have

42:56

a great night , everyone , and don't forget to

42:58

change your shorts .