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1:17

Hello, and welcome to The Watch. My

1:19

name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor

1:21

at theringer.com. And joining

1:23

me on the other line, still

1:25

holding his Crimson Sky Stock, it's

1:29

Andy Greenwald! I

1:31

think it was a good plan. Oh my God,

1:33

Greenwald, it's great to see you, man. And Andy is not with

1:36

us in the studio today. He is

1:38

celebrating spring break. I

1:41

know it's a very important tradition for you.

1:44

And it seems like you're having a great time.

1:46

You look tan. Andy is in Hawaii. And I just want

1:48

to say, man, I know that you've taken an L this

1:50

week with Nelson Peltz. But

1:52

I think it's pretty bold of you to go

1:54

all the way to Hawaii to dewokify Moana. your

2:00

boots on the ground trying

2:02

to determine everything that like

2:04

yeah I'm just trying to figure out what Disney's vision

2:06

is for this property Andy we

2:08

have a couple of news and notes things to

2:11

talk about and then we're gonna get into a

2:13

very heavy television buffet all you can eat Shogun

2:15

the last couple of three body problems and maybe

2:17

some Top Chef for definitely some Top Chef you

2:20

look great how you doing I feel

2:23

great you know I I was with the family yesterday

2:25

been with the family all week went

2:27

on a boat yesterday and I

2:30

think I could sail to the Japan's now yeah

2:33

I think a hundred percent I could I would say the

2:35

first you got I mean you're out

2:37

there I was out

2:39

there I was in the middle of it I would

2:41

say in the first 10 15 minutes I was a

2:43

little little dubious because our captain

2:46

captain Kyler no I cut out captain

2:49

Kylie wasn't John no

2:51

we're getting there we're getting there we got a slow

2:53

build I've been I've been off air for a while

2:56

was definitely cautioning everyone that there would

2:58

be some he called it adventure sailing

3:00

oh on the waves there

3:03

was a lot of a dramamine being

3:06

passed out you know which I don't think

3:08

was available to the Portuguese back in

3:10

the in the 17th century but

3:12

I would say by the time we turned around

3:14

on the boat and my

3:16

man Kyler started playing heaven is a place

3:18

on earth oh yeah and to pour some sugar

3:21

on me while the sea spray was in

3:23

my face I was

3:25

like I am I am ready take

3:27

me Poseidon I was

3:29

I was feeling it I uh

3:31

I'm currently so watching obviously

3:34

Shogun I am two-thirds

3:37

of the way through Tokyo Vice season two

3:39

the final episode is airing tonight and

3:42

then the first scene of the new Apple TV

3:44

show that came out I think today or tomorrow

3:47

sugar starting Colin Farrell is

3:49

set in Tokyo and has

3:51

a little bit of a yakuza thing going on I am

3:54

almost fluent in Japanese it's

3:56

it's like I know do a lingo but

3:58

it could happen I could just start I

4:01

could start podcasting bilingual pretty soon. Is

4:04

Japan having a moment? Chris, are you so fluent

4:06

now? When you hear the Japan

4:08

piece, we have to talk about it. Do

4:11

you every time that you hear a character

4:14

on Shogun, in fluent Japanese, say, Yabushige, do

4:16

you do the Leo DiCaprio pointing meme? Do

4:18

you recognize it in the flow of the

4:20

natural discourse? We are. What we should do,

4:23

there's so much good podcasting about Shogun being

4:25

done here at the Ringer Podcast Network, Pissed

4:28

TV, Midnight Boys, I would say

4:30

us. We do a good job. But we're fine.

4:32

You and I need to we need to set the

4:35

bar higher for everybody. So

4:37

you I want you to promise me final

4:40

episode of Shogun we go no subs. Yes,

4:44

absolutely. Yeah, we have to be fluent in

4:46

Japanese by the final episode. And

4:48

what episode are we on right now? And I will note

4:50

I am on vacation. This is seven. This

4:53

is seven. This is a stick of time aired

4:55

Tuesday night and that is seven. So there are

4:57

three episodes left eight, nine, ten. I

5:00

think I can do it. I think I could say

5:02

Katana. I heard them say that a bunch this week.

5:05

So I feel pretty confident, honestly.

5:08

Andy, the only do you think do you think by the

5:10

end of episode 10, could you

5:12

stand in front of me and say it is

5:14

an honor to meet a relative of my liege

5:16

lord? Do you think you could do that? Japanese.

5:19

In because Blackthorn did it. I'm going to do that.

5:21

I mean, if John Blackthorn can do it, I'm going

5:23

to be that's how I'm introing you after

5:26

episode 10. I appreciate that

5:28

because he although we should, as

5:30

we have been saying week to week, he

5:32

does have a gift for languages. His ability

5:34

to swear in fluent Portuguese is unmatched. So

5:37

he might have a leg up on you. Greenwald,

5:39

the only big news, obviously, like there

5:41

was the whole Disney board battle. What's

5:45

your take on that? You seem like a pelts guy. All you

5:47

know what? I got

5:49

to say that the board battle is

5:51

less exciting than Bob's getting canned. Like

5:53

we I feel like we really thrived

5:55

when Chepek was in and then Al and

5:57

Iger came back and we.

6:00

We've talked a little bit about some of the behind the

6:02

scenes stuff, but I have to say

6:04

that like a bunch of like faceless shareholders voting

6:06

on stuff and it also like was really

6:08

hard for me to imagine that Nelson pelts

6:10

had like a shot at taking over Disney's.

6:13

By the way, this sounds exactly like Shogun.

6:15

You're basically saying you only like covering

6:17

these stories when Crimson Sky happens, but

6:19

when it's four regions in a room

6:21

talking. What is a bunch of ladies?

6:23

Yeah, I know I thought this was

6:25

a great episode. So

6:28

yeah, nothing too much about the Disney board battle,

6:30

but I did want to mention Disney a chase

6:33

that Justin Crowl over at deadline

6:35

had in a news story this

6:38

week that Julia Garner is

6:40

set to play the iconic comic book character

6:42

in Marvel Studios. She's playing Silver

6:45

Surfer. This rounds out the cast. We

6:47

now have the big five. Silver

6:49

Surfer is the bad guy in Fantastic Four, right? No,

6:52

this is do you want to do this whole

6:54

podcast over Chris? You had so much goodwill built

6:57

up. I heard all all Monday you're like X-Men.

6:59

I know Bishop is. It

7:02

is cool within the first 10

7:04

minutes of this podcast. You threw it all away.

7:07

No, you want me to do this now? Yeah, do you want me to

7:09

do this on vacation? Chris,

7:13

I feel like I'm

7:15

being set up here. No, I. Silver

7:18

Surfer is the Herald of Galactus.

7:20

Okay. So,

7:23

canonically, Silver Surfer

7:25

is like Galactus's advance man.

7:28

That's right. He's like, Hello, nice

7:30

to meet you all. I'm here to let

7:32

you know that my god alien Emperor will be

7:34

eating your planet shortly. And I'm just here to

7:36

like, you know, tie up some loose ends. Okay.

7:40

Galactus is a giant man

7:43

in a suit with a purple head who eats planets.

7:46

And one of the. We got Thanos' block.

7:48

Well, the purple is a thing. We're

7:50

going to have to confront that at some point in the MCU. Yeah,

7:54

and that was sort of the creation of this character

7:56

and this type of storytelling was one of the things

7:58

that sort of was an inflection point. for Marvel

8:00

and for when Stan Lee and Jack Kirby created

8:02

this and made the Fantastic Four like much more

8:04

than just the protectors of New York but rather

8:06

like the protectors of an entire universe

8:08

if not dimension. But anyway, yeah, so

8:11

the suggestion here is that Galactus

8:14

is coming and it's some sort of evil threat. People

8:16

are still checking for Dr. Doom though. Okay. Right?

8:20

Don't you feel like there's been real quiet

8:22

on Doom Island? I just feel like Mephisto

8:24

me once, you know? Wow,

8:26

Chris. I'm just saying, ever

8:29

since Kang gave up the throne,

8:32

you know, RIP, the Kang era,

8:34

the Kang dynasty, there's

8:36

been a space to fill. So I will say though,

8:39

pivoting it to in the positive, I love

8:41

Julia Garner. Me too. I think she's

8:44

awesome and I have no idea what role she's

8:46

going to play in this but I think it's

8:48

kind of cool. Matt Jackman's directing this movie and

8:50

I can't remember who's writing it but I do want

8:52

to make just one note for whoever's doing dialogue

8:54

now. These have a scene where

8:57

Julia Garner is literally

8:59

surfing and somebody comes up

9:01

to her and says, you can't surf here. And

9:04

she goes, if you don't want me to surf

9:06

here, you're going to have to fucking

9:08

kill me. That's

9:11

an Ozark joke. That's your Ozark heads. Speaking

9:14

of surfing, again,

9:17

I'm not saying I'm ready for Nazare but there was

9:19

some boogie boarding happening here on vacation. Oh yeah. I

9:22

heard about that. They made me feel... Did you wear

9:24

a protective suit? Thank you for asking. Thank you

9:26

for asking. I

9:28

wouldn't say I was a full suit but I was wearing a surf shirt, a rash

9:30

guard if you will

9:33

to protect myself because I'm out there for a long

9:35

time. Not a good time. I'm

9:37

out there for a long time. I

9:40

think my energy was more like Kenny Powers at

9:42

the beginning of Eastbound Street 3 when

9:44

he comes running out and he's just like,

9:47

hey y'all, got some sets coming in. People

9:51

did use the word sets to describe

9:53

tiny, tiny swells on a baby beach.

9:55

Yeah. Was there a lot of

9:57

surf terminology being thrown around? I think

9:59

that there's... There's been some language

10:01

inflation in terms of what we're doing here

10:03

because we all know too much about surfing

10:06

and we'll never actually do it. Right, so

10:08

you're barreling stuff and it's like, actually, yeah.

10:10

Yes, exactly right. Exactly right. But

10:13

fun. I was just going to

10:15

mention as a sort of admin slash preview

10:17

thing that we are speaking of

10:19

waves in the middle of the Emmy wave and

10:22

where we're getting one to two shows usually with

10:26

a major star attached coming every

10:28

Friday, Sunday, whatever it is. This

10:31

week we get Sugar with Colin Farrell,

10:34

which I think would, I would say

10:36

has been met with mixed reviews.

10:40

And obviously, I think it's probably best to talk

10:42

about that once we've watched some of

10:44

it because the reviews are obviously struggling with

10:47

how much to reveal about that series. And

10:49

then Ripley on Netflix starring

10:51

Andrew Scott from Steve Zalien, which

10:54

I think has gotten relatively good reviews, frankly,

10:56

so far, which for

10:58

a project that's been sort of floating around that was

11:00

originally at Showtime, it's been a couple of years in

11:02

the, if not making

11:04

at least the arriving, it's

11:07

cool to see that happening. So I'm looking forward to checking

11:09

those two out. Now watch the first Sugar. I'm very interested

11:12

to see what you think about it. Can

11:14

I ask you one other admin question that's less admin? I

11:16

feel like, so I want to talk

11:18

Tokyo Vice without having seen it briefly, just to

11:20

say. Good, weigh in. I

11:22

should have watched the first season because as you did,

11:25

as Michael Mann, I do have

11:27

a slight, but I

11:29

do think debilitating ancil Elgort allergy. So

11:32

I did not get into the first season. Second

11:35

season comes out. I think Michael Mann is now just

11:37

a producer, right? Michael Mann has not been involved since

11:39

the pilot episode. Yeah, right. So

11:42

yet there's a groundswell of people out there saying

11:44

that the season is phenomenal. It's one of his

11:47

favorite show of the year. Mina said that? Yeah.

11:50

Look, I trust Mina completely. So

11:52

I want to check it out. Where are you with this?

11:55

It is excellent. It's an excellent, excellent

11:57

television show. And it is obvious.

12:00

I hope it comes I don't know if they're gonna

12:02

do a third season like I said I'm only like

12:04

midway through the second season It's it's

12:07

really interesting because the first episode of

12:09

the second season is essentially like a

12:11

soft wrap-up of the first season No,

12:14

so much so that they're like at the end like

12:16

you didn't just come to Tokyo to solve one crime

12:18

There are many you know and it's like that

12:21

that it kind of starts like a bunch of new

12:23

plot lines There's still obviously a lot of connective tissue.

12:25

There's there's Yakuza stuff

12:27

And there's like police

12:30

corruption and everything But I would

12:32

say that not only does the season move

12:34

forward with new stop story stuff But

12:36

it feels a little bit lighter on its feet To

12:39

me and a little bit less Modeling

12:43

it's just really really like gripping

12:45

entertaining Procedural

12:47

television it's just it's I really I really can't recommend

12:50

I want to talk about it But I don't want

12:52

to give anything away for sure. I want to watch

12:54

it a central Like a

12:56

real star making performance by this guy's

12:58

show Kasamatsu who plays Sato who's a

13:01

I think a more sensitive kind of Yakuza Lieutenant

13:05

and he's fantastic at it but

13:08

yeah, I mean I I want to

13:10

tell you that you can just jump in on two and I

13:13

think that somebody with your big brain can

13:15

figure it out. Oh, thanks And

13:17

there is a like nearly five

13:19

or six minute Previously on Tokyo

13:22

Vice that you could watch at the beginning of the

13:24

season be like I think I got it But

13:27

I will say that there are references and moments that

13:29

you're like Why is this important and it's because this

13:31

person has come back or this person is Leaving

13:34

and you're like I would have to know who that was to

13:36

be clear I'm gonna watch it without subtitles good. Well,

13:38

I feel like at my challenges Already

13:42

quite steep The

13:45

other reason why I'm interested in the show just as

13:47

a note for people who are watching it and who

13:49

soon I will be among your your cohort. This

13:52

is a max original, right? Yeah, and

13:54

that is a dying breed especially for the

13:56

type of show that Tokyo Vice is so

13:58

I'm I think something to consider as we're

14:01

waiting to see what the future for that show may be,

14:04

that it is in a precarious position

14:06

because it is one of the few

14:08

remaining holdovers, I believe, from the era

14:11

when Warner Brothers

14:13

before it was Warner Brothers Discovery was funding

14:16

and programming Max as

14:18

a distinct entity.

14:20

As like a genre

14:22

and maybe more mainstream

14:24

style arm of HBO,

14:26

yeah. Not even an

14:28

arm of HBO, just a completely unique service because

14:31

it had its own programming

14:33

team with Sarah Aubrey and Kevin Riley and

14:35

they famously or infamously, depending what side of the

14:37

equation you were on, they I think

14:39

outbid HBO proper for Station Eleven.

14:42

And Station Eleven was a Max original even

14:44

though it is spiritually much more

14:46

of an HBO show. Now

14:48

that in the Warner Brothers Discovery merger, things have

14:51

been consolidated under a friend of the pod, Casey

14:53

Bloys, and it seems pretty clear that the future

14:55

of the Max brand is

14:59

James Gunn DC stuff, is

15:02

the Penguin, which is I guess now technically

15:04

James Gunn DC stuff. It is,

15:06

it's their more, yeah, the more their

15:08

branded IP arm from the larger company. I

15:10

don't think we're going to get more Tokyo

15:12

vices. I don't mean more

15:15

seasons of Tokyo vices, that's possible, but more shows

15:17

like Tokyo vices that are ambitious in their own

15:19

right. I will say also just anecdotally without looking

15:21

at numbers at all, you know, Tokyo Vice started,

15:23

I think the big calling card for it was

15:25

Michael Mann as director in this first episode. I

15:27

think initially it was like Michael Mann is involved

15:29

in this show and that was really exciting. Then

15:32

the first season I thought was like quite

15:34

good and found sea legs after like the

15:36

Mann visual kind of

15:38

language of it was sort of, I mean, not

15:40

stripped away, but revised over the course of the

15:42

first season. Then you

15:44

get this second season, which obviously at least

15:46

in our small kind of echo chamber has

15:48

like a groundswell of like, this

15:50

is actually secretly one of the best things

15:52

on TV. I love it. I've gotten into

15:55

this. It's a COVID

15:57

era show, I think in so

15:59

much as the second season felt

16:02

fairly delayed from the first

16:04

season. Right? Like I was thinking there was, I

16:06

was actually shocked that it was coming back at

16:08

all, but it did definitely have

16:10

a kind of like the same way out

16:12

of range feels like it was on five

16:14

years ago. Like I feel like

16:16

I have like a weird memory hole of like

16:18

when Tokyo vice came out, but

16:20

it's a really good example of like sometimes

16:22

shows need a season or two to find

16:25

their legs. And sometimes people need 18, 24

16:29

months to like find a show, get into a

16:31

show, become an evangelist for the show, tell all

16:33

their friends that they love the show. And

16:36

we try to do our best here when we find something that

16:38

we love to really tell, tell our listeners

16:40

like how much we like, like they should be

16:42

watching it. But Tokyo voice is a perfectly good

16:44

example of like, can't watch everything. And

16:46

sometimes the stuff slips through the cracks and it's a

16:48

shame because I think it's actually getting quite

16:50

a bit of a fan base now as it's

16:53

approaching the end of its second season. It

16:55

also sounds like it's falling into that kind of challenging

16:58

spot where we struggle to how to cover it.

17:00

And also I think audiences struggle with how to

17:02

receive it and prioritize it, which is to

17:04

hear the way you're describing it. It's like, this

17:06

is just a killer crime show. Like I'm really

17:09

enjoying it. If this isn't a

17:11

resetting my understanding of what television is

17:13

in the streaming era, this isn't a

17:15

absolutely get everyone paying attention to this.

17:17

This could be a monocultural phenomenon like

17:19

Shogun. This is a good

17:22

show, you know, of which we have not

17:24

a ton at this moment. But again, that's

17:26

hard for us to articulate in terms of

17:29

like what we're championing and why we're championing

17:31

it. And also to your point, like shows

17:33

that are just solid and good and fill

17:35

a niche in people's lives need time to

17:37

develop. And in this kind of broken timeline

17:39

of streamers and COVID delays and everything, it

17:42

doesn't have the chance to build up the body of work

17:44

to even get the fan base that it might eventually require.

17:47

Should we move elsewhere and

17:49

back in time in the Japan lands to talk a little

17:51

bit about Shogun? I just want to

17:53

stay in the Japan's. Andy, I'm

17:56

going to start here. I can't wait. At

17:59

the ending. RIP

18:01

Nagakato, who truly

18:04

went out like the Atlanta Braves in October, you

18:06

know? It's

18:10

your greatest stray ever. That

18:12

character in some ways had been MacBaining himself

18:14

for quite some time. Truly.

18:17

But I wanted to know, you know,

18:21

I guess like this, you know, his death, I

18:23

got spoilers, obviously, for Styx Time. His

18:26

death comes after Toradaga's

18:28

sensible surrender, unless that surrender

18:30

was in fact like a

18:32

gesture so that then his

18:35

brother would be having his guard down at the

18:37

Tea House and they could jump him there. Did

18:39

you read the Nagakato ambush

18:43

as a solo

18:45

mission by him? Or

18:48

something that Toradaga had been planning? Well,

18:51

because Toradaga had that interaction with

18:54

the Madam, basically, about that. This

18:57

seems to me, it's important

18:59

to watch the, I mean, to pay attention

19:01

to the Toradaga and Jin scene, but I

19:04

think that this was done by

19:06

the younger generation who are all

19:08

fuckups. Like this seems like it

19:10

was a Kiku, maybe Omi, and

19:12

Nagakato's special. Yeah, Omi's like a

19:14

good gift bag. That's classic Omi, by the way. Great

19:16

imitation. Japanese is sterling already. You're

19:19

trying to imitate the younger generation. Yeah,

19:22

gen alpha. Yeah. Yeah,

19:25

it seemed unrelated. Like Toradaga's relationship

19:27

with his failed son has been

19:30

ongoing and it

19:33

was extremely McBainy for Nagakato

19:35

to spend the episode being like, ah, which

19:38

will I love more when I experience it?

19:40

Killing men or betting women? My

19:42

life truly, truly is

19:44

a bounty. It

19:48

seemed like just another foolish solo run. I think that...

19:51

He was also like dying is going to be dope. You know, I

19:53

can't wait for that to happen. He thinks it's going to be glorious.

19:55

I can't wait. I will

19:57

also say, I mean, I will say that... This

20:01

show has warned its characters to be

20:03

careful in gardens. Do you

20:05

remember? I mean, initially when Blackthorn's walking out

20:07

in the gardener who later dies is like,

20:09

how dare you step on this gravel? I

20:11

think, imagine Blackthorn's challenges if there had been

20:13

a water feature in his garden. You

20:16

know, I think there would have been serious a

20:18

fountain there. I think we could see where that

20:25

would have gone. But yeah, largely if we're

20:28

starting at the end, you sort of

20:30

have to point out the one thing

20:32

that is a little bit, my only

20:34

criticism, because I thought this episode was,

20:36

again, week to week it's getting better

20:38

and better. In some ways this is

20:40

my favorite experience watching Shogun yet. We're

20:42

really banking a lot on Torin Naga knowing more

20:44

than everyone else and being

20:47

so smart and so inscrutable and so impenetrable,

20:49

but we have to trust him completely. Because

20:51

there was a lot of, there were a

20:53

number of instances in this episode of a

20:56

lot of characters, including in the

20:58

Stick of Time scene that gave the episode

21:01

its name, but also invented red light

21:04

districts. Congratulations. That

21:07

things are falling a little too easily in

21:09

this negative direction and Torin Naga just seems

21:11

to be okay with it.

21:13

He's too okay. And he's mostly consumed

21:16

with meddling with

21:19

Pan'taro and Mariko's marriage.

21:25

Some gamesmanship. Gamesmanship. I love it. It's

21:27

like there's like a fucking earthquake decimates

21:29

his forces and he's like, Mariko, you

21:32

must, you've

21:34

got to hang out with this barbarian some

21:36

more. You have to spend more

21:39

time with this guy. Yeah. Do

21:41

you think that we're missing a scene when

21:43

Yavashige explains his invention of cucking? And

21:45

he's just like, it's very interesting to

21:48

watch. It can

21:51

be quite satisfying. Do you think that

21:53

there's an element of that to this? I

21:55

don't know. We're both struggling with how to do the

21:57

voices without speaking Japanese fluently.

22:01

Without speaking Japanese fluently, yes. I think,

22:04

again, it's crucial. Stick

22:07

of Time was like a, I think

22:10

a pretty contemplative episode, but when you look

22:12

at, just because there was a lot of

22:14

long conversational scenes, a lot of people telling

22:17

stories about their past, a lot of

22:19

people putting up

22:22

examples of mythology versus reality or

22:24

truth, which I thought was really

22:26

effective. I thought that

22:28

Saike, like the half brother who

22:31

showed up, was like a

22:33

classic, awesome gear

22:36

shift, energy changing thermostat

22:38

guy. Like just really

22:40

was like, had a different sort of

22:43

vibe to his, the way he spoke, the

22:45

way he behaved, obviously was

22:47

somebody who just could not

22:49

give a fuck about sort of propriety

22:52

and familial bonds and also spoke to

22:54

probably a lot of the anxieties that

22:57

anybody outside of like the royal line

23:00

feels in this world. Do

23:02

you think that Cosmo Jarvis' note for his

23:04

performance during the banquet scene was just to

23:07

be like, I assume

23:09

that he saw the translation of the script so he

23:11

knew what was going on because his face was definitely

23:13

giving, oh, it's all right when he does it. A

23:16

bit of a twat, rude, talking

23:19

about diarrhea, incontinent

23:21

leashes, appalling, and

23:23

yet somehow tolerable, interesting. Like

23:26

he's fine with it. Basically,

23:28

is Japanese Blackthorn.

23:32

He's saying whatever he wants and everybody's just

23:34

dealing with it. Yes, great

23:37

energy guy. This was also not

23:40

to keep beating the same drum,

23:42

but super thronzy

23:44

in the sense where there's

23:46

always a rogue brother or someone

23:48

who has that Walder Frey

23:50

or the Blackfish. There's

23:54

always like, oh, there's the black sheep relative we need

23:56

at this moment. Or

23:58

that we're going to have to do a dumbass.

24:00

delicate dance with. And what was awesome

24:03

about that banquet scene, and I

24:05

think allows you to sort of evolve past

24:07

the Game of Thrones comparison, is that it

24:09

was Red Wedding-y, but in a

24:11

Shogun way. In the sense that when you

24:13

realized that a trap had been set, or

24:16

that it was going a different way, it

24:18

was played almost entirely on people's faces. And

24:20

when so much of Shogun is about

24:23

the faces that are kept away,

24:25

that are kept hidden, the way

24:27

that the episode articulated the inner

24:29

lives of the characters through performance,

24:31

through direction, was outstanding. Like I

24:34

got, my pulse was racing. It

24:36

was a thrilling sequence so beautifully

24:38

put together when nothing physically

24:41

changes. Everyone stays seated. Everyone

24:43

presumably gets through the next course of the meal,

24:45

but everything changes. They didn't even just stay seated.

24:47

I mean, a lot of the stuff that is

24:49

being discussed and a lot of the ideas that

24:52

are being thrown around are ones that we've kind

24:54

of... I like the fact that this show

24:56

is able to do variations on a theme

24:58

throughout its season without it ever feeling boring

25:00

or like we're retreading things. Like for instance,

25:03

we know Jon can't have his boat. We

25:05

know Buntaro is batting third in the three-body

25:07

problem with his wife and Jon. And

25:09

we know that Torinaga's kid is a liability

25:11

and Omi is a snake. These things keep

25:14

coming up, but I think it's

25:16

actually just deepening my relationship with the

25:18

characters. It doesn't feel like we have

25:20

enough story to extend this out problem.

25:23

Hugh does what's wild about this show and

25:25

it makes me, honestly, it makes me respect

25:27

the patient development process that FX demonstrated here

25:29

so much more. Because if you were to

25:31

have told me at the beginning of the

25:33

season, and again, I've not read the book,

25:35

I have not seen the miniseries, so my

25:38

understanding of this material is very, very limited.

25:40

Did both in Japanese actually. Well,

25:42

I've been trying to catch up

25:44

with you. But I

25:47

think the one thing that I felt I understood in

25:49

my bones about this, just by the fact that FX

25:51

was willing to commit so many resources to putting it

25:53

back on the air, was I was

25:55

certain that six of

25:58

the ten episodes did not take place in the... fishing

26:00

village of Izu. Yeah. You know

26:02

what I mean? Yeah. Like I

26:04

would have promised you sight unseen that it

26:06

moved around a little bit more. When they were like, we're

26:08

going to stop here for a minute. I was like, right.

26:10

For like an episode. Yeah. Yeah.

26:14

Yabushige's place. It's a great place to hide out. Oh, there's

26:16

some nice real estate. Oh, we're moving him in. Oh, okay.

26:19

Fumi's taking care of the garden. Yeah. Well,

26:21

it does seem like we're really settling in. But no,

26:23

this is just where the show is set now

26:25

for at least 60% of the season. And

26:29

yet to your point, it feels completely

26:31

vibrant and alive. A couple other notes here.

26:34

Okay. A lot in this

26:37

episode happens in public bathing spots. Yeah.

26:40

What's your take on this? Should we bring this back? Imagine

26:44

this, your home Sunday night and

26:48

you open your bathroom door and

26:50

I am in your bathtub. And

26:52

I'm like, I've actually had this. And I'm like,

26:55

Andy, let's talk about Ripley. Okay.

26:59

Let's do a pre-pro meeting on the watch. Let's

27:01

talk it out. Also, tell me all about your

27:03

vacation. But I'm going to be bathing while this

27:05

happens. A couple quick follow

27:07

ups. Now, this is a bathtub. So

27:10

this is not a steam situation.

27:13

Is it a bubble bath? Because I want to

27:15

know. How much visibility you have here? Yeah.

27:18

I want to know what you're telling me. I'd

27:21

wear that little thing that Yabushige has.

27:26

And he was disrobing. I was like, holy shit,

27:28

we're about to get like whole hog here. And

27:30

it was, he was discreet. Also,

27:32

I kind of say as somebody

27:34

who just did a workout yesterday

27:36

and won't be doing a workout for some time in the

27:38

future. Yabushige looks pretty

27:41

good. Yeah. He

27:43

swings that sword. He was like

27:45

pretty cut. I

27:47

thought for a guy who acts like he's not.

27:50

Who's like, I've always, you know, like. Chris,

27:53

it's always arm day when you're living

27:55

in the samurai era. OK, like that is not

27:57

easy to do. They're also eating food.

28:00

You know? Delicious. Yeah, they're

28:02

eating pure proteins, just

28:04

some fermented soybeans, no dairy, obviously.

28:07

Yeah. Rice wine, a lot of it, out of

28:09

small vessels, so you're kind of doing portion control.

28:12

I like that you're calling out the front and

28:14

back curtain that he's wearing that really ties the

28:16

room together. Yeah,

28:19

I think that your idea about doing more

28:21

business nude in

28:23

baths, look, you're

28:25

making a compelling argument for it. But I just think

28:27

that we don't live in a place that is just

28:30

rife with hot springs where you could just drop, drown,

28:32

and hop in, you know, in a way. I think

28:34

the idea of walking into someone's home and

28:36

running a bath just creates more problems than it's

28:39

worth, honestly. Like, I would love to talk to

28:41

you. Like, water conservation issues or... That's

28:43

right. Yeah, the LADWP has got me. I did have...

28:45

I've never had a dream where you were in my

28:47

bathtub. I did recently, I think I... Did I tell

28:49

you this? I did have a dream where you were

28:51

co-hosting the Emmys. Did I tell you that? You did

28:53

not tell me that. Who was I co-hosting with? Well,

28:56

it's faded. There were about... I

28:58

don't want to, like, you know, blow too much smoke. There were, like...

29:01

It was like a group hosting thing. There were, like, eight people

29:03

hosting and you were in the rotation. Okay. But

29:06

here's the thing about the dream. I thought you

29:08

did a great job and I was happy for you. That

29:11

was my dream! It was the

29:13

most vanilla dream. You did a great job

29:15

co-hosting the Emmys. I really wish I had

29:17

dreams like that. Mine are just, like, so

29:19

riddled with, like, deep childhood anxieties. Really? I

29:23

think I just have, like, the same dreams that I

29:25

did when I was a kid. They're just translated into

29:27

today, you know? Oh,

29:29

I see. So Ansel Elgort, Phil

29:32

Simmons and Yavashige are on one

29:34

team and they try to do

29:36

the suicide squeeze and the ball

29:38

is fired home and you're like, is

29:41

this correct? Like, I'm trying to think of, like,

29:43

your childhood anxieties. But then I'm only wearing front

29:45

and back napkins. But you're wearing them sideways by

29:47

accident. A

29:50

couple other notes I have here. What

29:53

did you think of Toranaga

29:56

Boy Warlord? That's

29:58

a job that we have. largely excised

30:01

from the occupations we trust

30:03

children with. Boylords? Yeah.

30:07

I did think that the show kind of

30:09

buried the lead. I'm like, how did a 12-year-old end

30:11

up in charge of an army? Well.

30:14

I feel like there's a number of procedural failings,

30:16

honestly, that it would have fallen to him to

30:18

begin with. But he did do a

30:21

good job. So I don't know, some

30:23

kids are just built different. Did you have a

30:25

kid in sixth grade who you're like, that kid could lead

30:27

an army? There

30:29

was a dude who was a

30:32

couple grades above us who

30:34

was like, just one of those classic

30:36

like, any game,

30:38

any sport, he

30:40

would just be good at immediately. And

30:43

I wonder whether or not he did. It's across some of us,

30:45

after bear. But

30:50

so you're saying, so your idea of a

30:52

successful boylord would be someone who is just

30:55

like, easily adaptable, athletic

30:57

and like- Yeah, could just pick up a soccer ball

30:59

and be like, I get it. Not

31:02

necessarily like the kid who's just like, shaving

31:04

in sixth grade. No, that kid was

31:07

always a bit disturbing. And I was never

31:09

quite sure that he was actually the age he claimed to

31:11

be. Oh. Danny

31:14

Almonte, Saul. I was going to say, you beaming

31:16

to Danny Almonte. Yeah. Okay. All

31:19

right. So little league scandal is what you're

31:21

saying. You mentioned that we've been in EZU for quite some

31:23

time. Yeah. And I just do want to

31:25

say, this is not a critique. It's

31:27

just a request. I

31:30

miss my Portuguese guys. They

31:33

are fun. And I felt like

31:36

the show was very

31:38

well rounded with them in it. It's not like

31:40

I have an affinity for romance languages or Latin

31:42

or whatever. It's just that

31:45

I enjoyed those guys and the perspective that

31:47

they brought. But again,

31:49

I think that the- But realistically, I

31:51

understand why they're limiting it in terms

31:53

of what you're seeing. There's

31:55

an element to this conversation that

31:57

I think will come back when we talk about

32:00

the three-body problem, but so

32:02

much of television storytelling, but

32:04

particularly ambitious television storytelling, is

32:07

making efficient use of the real estate that you have. And

32:09

I think that what Shogun understands is, and

32:12

it's building it in really subtle ways, like

32:15

the stick of time scene where they discuss

32:17

the red light district, essentially, is

32:19

part of something that has been, I think that

32:22

is central to understanding Shogun, but has also been

32:24

really wonderfully subtle, which is a vision for

32:26

the future of this country and of

32:29

the realm, as they call it, and

32:31

Torinaga's vision for a unified Japan, what

32:33

it could look like in the future.

32:37

And his resistance to having that

32:39

come about through being

32:42

a warlord, bringing back the Shogunate,

32:44

right? But also, he will

32:46

be, if he succeeds in this, and to him

32:48

it's not a coup, to him it's not assuming

32:50

power, it's just protecting the realm for the

32:53

Taiko's heir, being the correctly

32:56

sober state caretaker,

32:58

essentially, until that happens, the

33:01

role of the Portuguese in that is very much in flux.

33:04

So to have them, they're essentially

33:06

waiting to see who wins. And

33:09

so I think that it would not have been

33:11

the best use of real estate to focus on them being like, more

33:13

stew, please. Yeah, I mean, it's also very savvy.

33:16

And look, this show is obviously, it

33:19

was expensive to make, but I think that they had a

33:21

budget, and I think having Izu

33:23

be this sort of fulcrum location, which

33:25

it was the, where they were

33:27

in the first few episodes when Vai'farn

33:30

washed up on shore in the first place, and

33:33

now where they've returned, does make sense in

33:35

just a production sense. Also,

33:38

you know, I think it's very respectful to the guy they

33:40

boiled, who got a callback. Yeah, that's true. You

33:42

know, that's true. I watch

33:45

my ship and my men, one's been

33:47

boiled, tough. Should we

33:49

wrap up through your body problem? Just

33:51

for Shogun, I just, I did want to ask you,

33:53

like, what is your sense? The

33:56

show has given us such a consistent, and we should wrap

33:58

up through body problem. I'm almost ready to do it. But

34:00

like the show has

34:02

given us a very consistent sense of what to

34:04

expect week to week and it's it's been interesting

34:06

how much we've sunk into this isu era like

34:10

it's given us such. Space

34:12

and grace to like uncover these characters

34:14

and their relationships to each other, both

34:16

in action or just in terms of you

34:19

know cross eyes and the way they look at each other and the

34:21

way they talk to each other. Something

34:23

bigger is coming. This is a from what

34:25

we understand a one season show. Do you

34:27

have a. I

34:30

guess it's a two part question like you have a

34:32

prediction for how how big the action

34:34

is going to get because I think that this

34:36

is a first all Famer in the we don't

34:38

have HBO's budget all stars because no show that

34:40

I remember in history is so successfully done the.

34:43

We the camera joins a battle having recently ended

34:45

with a lot of body. I

34:48

thought the earthquake was really effectively done and it

34:50

was a really good use of VFX

34:52

to see from Torin August POV

34:54

up on the hillside like the

34:56

land kind of just swept into

34:59

the town. I would

35:01

imagine given the name of an episode

35:03

coming up which is Crimson Sky that

35:05

they're they're just they're not ready to

35:07

let that one go and that we could

35:09

get some some type of violence

35:12

but yeah I think that there is

35:14

probably a major action set piece in our

35:16

horizon. Okay

35:18

and and do you feel like that is in

35:20

the spirit of the show that you've been watching like

35:23

are you ready to switch gears in your fandom for

35:25

that sort of thing. It's a non

35:27

essential but beneficial

35:29

part of the show like I

35:32

do not watch this because I want six or fights

35:34

I watch it because I just find. The

35:36

interplay between the characters to be fascinating and

35:38

this execution of the show of

35:40

releasing it week to week. And

35:43

the sort of momentum of people talking about it

35:45

and obviously really kind of enjoying it on Tuesday

35:47

nights when they get back from work or were

35:49

able to watch it has been

35:51

so cool and it is an example

35:54

of why I think weekly releases do

35:56

work, especially for hour long. Drop this

35:58

like banging out the amount. Tokyo Vice

36:00

that I watched yesterday was like it eventually got

36:02

into like the I am in a trance and

36:05

just want to watch this zone, but you're like

36:07

man like Binging

36:09

this stuff is hard, you know Like binging this

36:12

stuff really does is time-consuming and it is probably

36:14

better to watch it week to week like this

36:17

Also, Chekhov's boat has to come in at some

36:19

point like I don't think you can have this

36:21

many episodes of our guy I think like got

36:24

a boat and you swords Like

36:26

I don't think you could a short canoe ride I Promise

36:30

right all I need is I can see it. You know go

36:32

and Your permission

36:34

I'll leave Yeah,

36:37

cuz he's not He's

36:40

not so he's not that guy who is few

36:42

years older than you at school Yeah in terms

36:44

of his ability to pick up all of a

36:46

sudden become a great swordsman This

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39:04

All right, let's talk about three-body

39:07

problem. When we last spoke, we

39:09

did Judgment Day, which was the

39:11

incredible nanofibers versus

39:13

boat set piece that

39:15

shredded much of the resistance

39:17

to humanity on Earth, or

39:20

I guess humanity would be the resistance to being taken over,

39:23

depending on which way you look at it. And

39:25

then we get into a kind of different kind of show, I

39:28

think. A very fast-paced, in

39:31

some ways, unmysterious. If the first few

39:34

episodes were kind of defined

39:36

by the, what's this video game?

39:39

What's the blinking? What's the countdown?

39:41

What's going on? How does the

39:44

1960s in China tie into what's going

39:46

on today? You get all

39:48

those mysteries kind of answered and solved by

39:51

episode five. And then

39:53

six, seven, and eight are

39:57

a sci-fi, I

40:00

never know blinds of of Armageddon

40:02

and. Of Apollo thirteen of

40:05

like a rescue mission or a mission

40:07

to save humanity. And

40:09

it's breakneck. It's doing

40:11

a lot of almost yes and it

40:13

moves so fast it almost feels improvisatory.

40:16

I. Was curious whether or not you agreed

40:18

with the Sith episode as a. Kind

40:21

of like this is the the one version of the

40:24

show and then there's another version the show afterwards. And.

40:26

If you had a presence between the two. He.

40:29

I think it's a great point in it was absolutely the

40:31

right inflection. Point. To pause on because

40:33

the first few and eighty earnest and for

40:36

can be spoiling going forward. So yeah yeah,

40:38

And he the first few episodes or to Judgment

40:40

Day really highlighted. The talents that

40:42

David Benioff and Db Weiss and

40:45

Alexander who have in adapting. You.

40:47

Know I. I think everyone is

40:49

saying relatively on adaptable material. I

40:52

think they correctly identified ways to

40:54

get their arms around a large

40:56

concepts, sprawling character designs, large amounts

40:59

of time and Bill bit and

41:01

sort of bend it into the

41:03

shape of a season of television

41:06

or an episodic television. That really

41:08

hits. I will forever talk about

41:10

how the end of episode two.

41:13

When. Way Nj. Response

41:15

yeah. That's.

41:18

The kind of moment I've been chasing on television

41:20

since the heyday of last year. Like an absolute

41:22

jaw drop. Holy shit, this is so exciting I

41:24

can't wait to watch more. Can we talk about

41:26

it? I can with think about it. When.

41:28

I'm going to sleep tonight kind of thing.

41:30

Like that's that works and they hit it.

41:33

I think the subsequent episodes that we're going

41:35

be talking about more today. I

41:37

like just how challenging this project

41:39

is. It's. Essentially.

41:42

I. Don't was impossible because they did it. By.

41:45

To try to then spin what

41:48

was to the best of their

41:50

ability a lot. never granular but

41:52

a a more lived in. Race:

41:55

against time what's this countdown what's

41:57

happening right now to the almost

42:00

Intangible in four centuries

42:02

something bad is going to happen, but we have to make

42:04

you care about it today It's

42:07

wild I mean the opening moments of episode six

42:09

Which is the reaction to the eye in the

42:11

sky incident which I didn't realize was an incident

42:13

I thought the sky was walled off forever, but

42:15

that was not the case Essentially

42:17

does the entire three season run of the

42:19

leftovers in a chiron? Yes, where they're like

42:21

mass suicides religious movements the show's not interested

42:23

in that the show can't I I don't

42:26

want to say that Mistake because at some

42:28

point you were gonna have to grapple with

42:30

like how is everybody else reacting to this

42:33

yes, but It

42:35

was I think frustrating that they introduced

42:38

that idea and introduced the idea that

42:40

the world is coming apart at the

42:42

seams But that these

42:44

12 people are always

42:46

well fed well groomed have

42:49

places to stay and like

42:51

have an endless supply chain of stuff to

42:53

work from and I

42:56

seemingly are unbothered by like

42:58

society collapsing well and that

43:00

the wheels of their Plot machinations

43:02

are always well greased and lubricated that

43:05

despite literally

43:07

all Everything

43:09

that anyone had known and counted on Falling

43:11

apart all of humanity can agree

43:14

that the best solve for this problem is three

43:16

people called wall facers like like Just

43:19

just the branding issues alone would derail us for a

43:21

century Or in terms of the naming things and I

43:23

think that we were gonna get a little more critical

43:25

as we talk about these episodes I want it before

43:27

any of that say something and just lay it out.

43:29

Maybe even it's just a question for you Which

43:31

is this I loved the show.

43:34

I love watching it. I love thinking about it

43:36

I loved explaining some of the not all

43:38

of the plot to my daughters because they

43:40

thought it was interesting as we were like

43:42

on car rides I was

43:45

gonna ask you have you considered introducing? The

43:48

wall facer to like whatever your kids are getting

43:50

a rule and you're like, let's play wall-facer We're

43:53

nobody see your greatest gift is

43:56

your side It's not

43:58

gonna work. Yes, first of all But

44:00

it's not going to work because unlike Benioff,

44:02

Weiss, and Wu, my children have understood and

44:04

learned the concept of the written word. Uh-huh.

44:06

Which you can also do. You could just

44:08

write things on paper. But I think that

44:10

the eye in the sky would have like,

44:12

cams on that. There's not cams

44:14

on it. There's only cams and there's only an

44:17

eye in the sky when a character that can't

44:19

die yet is on an airplane. Do you know

44:21

what I mean? Like, it's... We'll get into that.

44:23

Okay. My point is, I find it

44:25

really interesting and I wanted to get your thoughts on

44:27

this. Why I can love something so much. And then

44:29

also be like, yeesh. This is kind of

44:31

a mess. Uh, especially as it

44:34

got deeper into the season. I

44:36

say this with open heart. I

44:38

really hope they make a second season of this. I

44:40

will watch every second of it. This

44:43

show may likely be on my top ten list.

44:46

But also I think it's kind of a disaster

44:48

at times. And I'm trying to square those things.

44:50

It's not a response I've had to a television

44:52

show in a long time. I think

44:54

one of the things that happens in the second half

44:56

of the season also is that there is this thrill of...

45:01

You know, they start building up Mike Evans and this

45:03

character that Jonathan Price is playing. And I think we're...

45:05

We go into the

45:07

show with our Game of Thrones brains and

45:09

we see... You know, we

45:11

see Price and we expect like a very significant

45:13

character. And he is significant, but he gets killed

45:16

midway through the first season of this show. And

45:19

then the show does not have a replacement

45:21

villain yet. And I don't

45:23

mean to break things down to their

45:26

most basic like comic book level

45:29

like understanding of a story. But

45:31

you do kind of have a missing... A

45:34

missing counterweight as these

45:36

people are running around and inventing nuclear

45:38

bomb sales. And chopping off people's heads

45:41

to send into space. What

45:44

like... Yeah, there's the video game woman.

45:46

There is the eye in the sky. There's

45:49

Tatiana still AWOL,

45:51

but we don't

45:53

have like a person who's

45:55

articulating like the alien side

45:58

of it for lack of a better term. Or

46:00

do we have a formidable villain

46:02

that would make society

46:04

rush through

46:06

all these different permutations of how to save itself? The

46:11

show in the book is called Three Body Problems

46:13

because in theory, again, I am a quantum physicist,

46:15

that is not solvable. That is

46:17

the thing that defines it. I think that

46:19

the adapters looked at this project and they

46:21

were like, here's something that we can solve

46:23

for. From what they have

46:26

said, from what others who have read the book have said, I

46:28

want to be careful, but it was my own experience too reading

46:30

the first 50 pages. What I

46:32

was reading was head-spending and

46:34

thrilling. I was not

46:36

reading it for the characters or for the

46:38

rich, inner emotional lives of people. There

46:41

were incredible concepts and huge, huge,

46:43

huge ideas, ideas that span galaxies.

46:46

The solve for that is to

46:48

make the show about a group of friends who

46:50

are then thrown into this. I

46:53

think that that was, and we can get into some

46:55

of the specific choices made, both in terms of characters

46:57

and also in terms of casting later, but that was

46:59

a smart solve for that larger problem.

47:02

The second half of the season's problem though, I don't think

47:04

there's a solve for it, which is that this is a

47:06

book and a trilogy that is told

47:08

in three timelines, the past, the present, and

47:10

deep into the future, all

47:12

about a looming threat and humanity's response to a looming

47:14

threat. I do not know, and I hope no one

47:17

spoils it for me, whether the aliens show up and

47:19

they're like, hi, we look like bugs, we're here to

47:21

get you. That's

47:23

not where we're at with the show. It

47:25

is just fundamentally either impossible or

47:27

close to impossible to create week

47:29

to week or binge to binge

47:32

stakes when the threat

47:34

is four centuries away. The

47:36

natural response would be, let's make humans

47:38

the enemy, which we always are in

47:40

stories like this, ultimately. That

47:43

is the lesson of the Walking Dead universe in

47:45

addition to almost every other genre piece or horror piece,

47:47

but I don't know why I said piece. We're

47:50

not talking about the Celtics. This

47:55

show can't do that for the reasons I said in terms

47:57

of the first problem. It's

48:00

not a show that is that interested in

48:02

the day-to-day emotional life of anyone. When

48:04

you compound that with the fact that when they did

48:06

have the opportunity to make people as they did in

48:08

the first part of the season, from

48:10

what I understand some characters are one-to-one, even

48:13

if their gender is changed or they're

48:15

no longer Chinese, and some are created

48:17

or some are confined, composite characters. This

48:21

also goes back to how much real estate do you have

48:23

when you're spending twenty million dollars for eight episodes so you

48:25

can't really get deep in these people's lives. I

48:28

sometimes don't... I don't know

48:30

who's not interested in making someone a fully realized human being

48:32

or if there just wasn't room for it, but we didn't

48:34

really get very many of them. You know,

48:36

I think maybe Will is the closest because all he

48:38

really has to do is sit on a beach and

48:40

die, but largely

48:43

speaking the language of the show is

48:45

not characters expressing

48:47

things or feeling things, it's characters reacting to things

48:50

and then just being like, ah yes my nanofibers

48:52

can do that in space. So

48:56

I don't know, I've talked myself in a circle. I think

48:58

in a way I feel like watching this

49:01

is a little bit like playing that game where

49:03

I'm like I'm seeing things happen, I think this

49:05

is amazing and cool, I'm gonna keep trying to

49:07

solve for it. Like, well I like this and

49:09

I'm gonna envision this will work, I'll touch the

49:11

ground and did this work? Did I really believe

49:13

in these characters and their love story? No,

49:17

but maybe there'll be a stable area. Yeah, but I will say

49:19

that I did... I don't know

49:21

that I was ever like deeply moved by,

49:23

but I was affected by the idea

49:26

that this guy who has essentially

49:28

a death sentence anyway asks

49:32

Shin to tell him not to go, and she

49:35

doesn't, and I thought that that was like a

49:37

well-done moment and actually set up the emotional kind

49:39

of ground for this

49:42

dude to make this choice. And

49:44

even the going through the series of hit

49:46

this number, hit that number to confirm, so like

49:49

triple confirm that you're gonna go. Yep. They

49:52

also do a very good job in the

49:54

compressed runtime of a season as opposed to

49:56

in Game of Thrones, this would have been

49:58

three or four seasons. of

50:01

you've got Yovan Adepo, he's standing

50:04

there smoking pot for most of the

50:06

season, and you're just like, you must

50:08

have something else for this guy to

50:10

do. And they do. And it

50:12

actually pays off and works in

50:14

Wallfacer. Now, do I think that they spend

50:17

most of Wallfacer of him being like, why

50:19

am I being chosen to do this? And

50:21

everybody being like, soon you will know, but

50:23

I cannot tell you? Yes,

50:25

I think that that is a little bit

50:27

silly, but it is a cool

50:29

way of taking characters who have been relegated to

50:32

the bench and bringing them into the game, which

50:34

they are very adept at doing.

50:37

Yeah, but I mean, let's talk about that specifically,

50:39

because that was a complaint I had, which is

50:41

that here's an actor that I really

50:43

like, here's a character that seems like he has

50:45

a lot of potential from the way he's introduced,

50:47

and then he spends the majority of the season

50:49

having one night stands smoking pot. Actually, he sounds

50:52

pretty cool. No,

50:54

but honestly, he is,

50:56

and then just being the all time greatest

50:58

best friend, no offense. Yeah. Emmy host to

51:00

the year first, Ryan, but like, this

51:03

guy, this guy is like, I've got, I'm

51:06

just your guy. I'm just going to live with you every

51:08

second. We're just going to hang out. By

51:11

the way, this show makes pancreatic

51:13

cancer seem pretty okay, right?

51:15

Like, my guy is just, his

51:18

main difference between the first half of the season and

51:20

the second half of the season is that he's sitting

51:22

down. Yeah. That's really the only negligible difference in his

51:24

life. Do you think it was selfish of him to

51:26

just keep asking people to go on vacation when it

51:28

was like, we do, we are working on something? It's

51:31

not like I can't get away from three Zooms a

51:33

day. Like, I'm literally trying to stop an alien invasion.

51:37

I thought it was, well, first of all, everyone can

51:39

work from home. It's not, it's not an issue. I

51:41

think Augie, who we have a lot more to say

51:43

about, was working through some other

51:45

things. Also, her employment status and anyone's

51:47

employment status with Wade seems nebulous at

51:49

best. Yeah. Like, is that direct deposit?

51:51

Like, what's going on there? That's my

51:53

question. The amount of time she spent

51:56

actually designing a nuclear space

51:58

sail for the planetary... It didn't

52:00

work to be fair. Great

52:02

point. Because that's the amount of time it

52:05

usually takes to sign up for direct deposit

52:07

and do the mandatory workplace behavior video at

52:09

any other place. She's already gone. She's already

52:11

gone at that point. Anyway,

52:13

specifically I do want to talk about the

52:16

S.A.L.L. thing because on your

52:19

theoretical whiteboard where you're dreaming

52:22

up like, oh, 300 nuclear explosions should

52:24

work, setting

52:26

up that character like

52:28

that, you love it. You love it.

52:31

You're a year out from production and you're like, this

52:33

is incredible because we're planting the seeds. We actually do

52:35

have real estate this way to make you care about

52:38

someone before you, oh, sneaky, guess what? He's the main

52:40

character of season two. I love that

52:42

design. I love that plan. The

52:44

problem with it was what you said.

52:46

It is entirely reactive at that point

52:48

where the deepest conversation he's ever had

52:50

with anyone where he's articulating a viewpoint

52:53

that TBH, I kind of

52:55

agree with. And

52:57

I clearly was a debate within the room

52:59

too, which is we have to not only

53:01

convince these characters, we're going to have to

53:03

convince the audience that the best thing to

53:06

do with your life at this moment when

53:08

nothing is changing for you and your bloodline

53:10

for generations is to give up everything. He

53:13

had to articulate that, but that opening scene where

53:15

then his one night stand gets hit by three

53:17

Teslas in a row, which I believe happened at

53:19

the Grove last week. So I do think this

53:21

is ripped from the headlines. From

53:26

that point on, he is kind of like the audience just

53:28

being dragged along. Now, the other risky part is that I

53:31

think the audience is a little bit ahead of him because

53:33

clearly the joke that

53:36

Ye Wen Jay says to him is to

53:38

eat everything. It's the riddle that will solve

53:40

everything, yes. But

53:42

that is relegated to him on a beach with Augie. What did it

53:44

play with God? Is that what it was? Yes.

53:48

Okay. There's a line that stood

53:50

out even more because of the way it played, which is

53:52

like when he says to Augie on the beach, actually,

53:54

I think I know why I'm here, but I'm not going to talk

53:56

about it. It's like, which is

53:59

it? We're building these

54:01

heroes whose

54:04

job is to basically fight

54:06

... They exist because the aliens

54:08

apparently don't have telepathy. Where

54:11

do we actually have telepathy in the world when we're reading

54:13

a novel? It's the only time we can actually read people's

54:15

minds. I don't know if we get into that in the

54:18

book at all or if they're just pretty stoic in the

54:20

book as well, but that is a triply

54:22

tough sell on a television show where

54:24

we can't actually have access to what they're

54:26

thinking. Do you feel like you'd be a

54:29

good wall-facer? No.

54:32

Look what we do for a living. I would be worried

54:35

that I would be dope at

54:37

wall-facing but misunderstand the assignment and come

54:39

back and be like, guys, I fixed

54:42

the Sixers cap situation. This is right.

54:46

The thing is ... That I think is undersold.

54:48

Guys, I've learned Japanese. I did it. This

54:51

is right. In different

54:54

hands, one episode would

54:56

be like, Secretary

54:59

General, I need to fly to Tokyo

55:01

tonight. I need to go on one

55:03

of those cool ass airplanes that have

55:05

private suites. When I

55:07

get there, I will be visiting Lady Jin's

55:09

district for reasons of my own research purposes

55:12

just to see how it worked out for

55:14

her. That would be amazing. I just know.

55:17

I have an Emirates Airbus fueled, ready to

55:19

go, and I get the private room all

55:21

the time and I'm just like,

55:23

man, Chris has been to Vegas a lot. Chris

55:27

keeps taking the Dreamliner to Portland to hang out

55:29

with his friends. Don't you

55:31

think that's weird? It also

55:33

just kind of ... How

55:36

many times can one guy go see you two? Why

55:40

does he need his own sphere? That's

55:43

odd. Just

55:45

for pavement to get back together. Can

55:49

you imagine your meeting with James

55:51

Dolan? Like, sir. The

55:55

wall-facer Chris Ryan needs Archers of Loaf in Vegas.

55:58

He's also going to need you to train him. Jaylen

56:00

Branson to the season. We

56:04

need all the Villanova alums stat.

56:08

When you're playing in this rarefied

56:10

era though, where the aliens can

56:12

see everything and do everything because that becomes the

56:14

threat at the end of the season is that

56:16

everything that's happening, they

56:19

are allowing to happen. And

56:21

again, what's interesting about that is the overlap with

56:23

religion. And the show tries to try to explicate

56:26

some of that very explicitly with the My Lord

56:28

stuff, but also the like, well, if it happened,

56:30

it was meant to happen. And if it doesn't

56:32

happen, it wasn't like that's, that's an interesting through

56:34

line about the role religion plays in some people's

56:37

lives regardless of VR alien

56:40

space technology. But if you're

56:42

existing in a space where the threat, the

56:45

minute to minute threat is that they can do anything,

56:47

including have someone ready to shoot you when you walk

56:49

outside without Benedict Wong, not really sure what Benedict Wong

56:51

would have done in that opportunity. Also

56:53

I didn't know shooting people in the upper left shoulder

56:55

is the preferred way for assassins to strike. But again,

56:57

I've never, I'm not that guy who you went to

56:59

school with who knows how to do things. That's

57:02

right. He's picked up a sad station so

57:04

easily. It then

57:06

you get into that overpowered,

57:09

omnipotent God enemy thing where

57:11

if if they're

57:13

if they want to kill Saul so badly, why

57:15

is he flying to Cape Canaveral with no problem?

57:18

Why can he walk on the beach with no

57:20

problem? It makes you use

57:22

that part of your brain, the nitpicking part of your brain

57:24

when you don't want to be using it. I

57:26

guess they lean into it with the Wade scene at the end where

57:28

they shake up his plane, but they're like, we like you. It's

57:31

this weird thing where the villains are not there enough,

57:33

but then also too powerful. Do

57:36

you think that there's also like

57:38

that, the majesty of what they pull

57:40

off in terms of like the eye

57:42

in the sky and

57:45

even though the blinking stars winds

57:48

up being it kind of overshadows

57:50

like what humans could be capable

57:53

combat. Like in

57:55

some ways, like I almost feel like the execution

57:57

of that idea was like, well, These

58:00

guys, so the whole premise is essentially, right?

58:03

Their technology is ahead of humans, but

58:05

humans advance at such a rate that

58:07

by the time they get here,

58:10

humans will have advanced. Their whole

58:12

thing is we're going to disrupt

58:14

your technological and scientific advancement, right?

58:18

Yeah, we're going to stop it, which goes back

58:20

to the pilot of the first episode where they

58:23

shut down all the reactors. Yeah. So,

58:26

just kind of like the replacement

58:28

of Jonathan Price

58:31

and his cohort with these

58:34

more almost like spiritually

58:36

grand obstacles,

58:39

I think is problematic for storytelling. But I'm

58:42

sure, like obviously, like I

58:44

think this show goes into

58:46

book two. I'm not sure how far into the books

58:48

there are, but like I'm sure they have a solve

58:50

for it coming. But I don't find Tatiana

58:52

as like a, you know, kind

58:54

of like, I

58:57

guess, what is she, like a born again assassin

58:59

for them? Yeah, and also she,

59:01

but they're also, the aliens are also a

59:03

step ahead of her because they're still leaving

59:05

video game consoles for her, which suggests that she's

59:07

not as plugged into their matrix as she would

59:10

like. Everyone's just a tool of it. And

59:13

again, it makes you ask the questions you don't

59:15

want to ask, which I think the book elides

59:17

by not being very interested in the day to

59:19

day existence of people on Earth and more of

59:21

these larger conceits. Like these

59:23

aliens know everything at all time. At

59:26

every moment they know everything that everyone is saying

59:28

on Earth and doing, yet they thought Little Red

59:31

Riding Hood was real true. Yeah,

59:33

right. That I don't

59:35

understand that it gets us to

59:37

an interesting place, but that's a tough

59:39

leap. Right. I mean,

59:41

for what it's worth, if I was offered

59:43

the title of wall face or I would spend the

59:45

next 30 years just dining at fine restaurants all around

59:48

the world at the end of it, be like, my

59:50

plan is there's 297

59:52

nuclear bombs on a string right

59:55

on their glide path towards Earth.

59:58

I'm going to blow them up in 400 years. Right?

1:00:01

Yes. Like that seems to

1:00:03

be the way to do it. What

1:00:06

are they using? All those nukes, yeah. But they haven't used

1:00:08

them. They're just there. Right, because they've

1:00:10

fucked up on the three of them. The

1:00:12

three of them. Yeah, right. The

1:00:15

other question I have that's slightly critical is like

1:00:19

the great TV shows are made with a specific

1:00:21

decision to make on the margins that you don't

1:00:23

notice but add up to the larger consistent

1:00:26

whole. Yeah. And like we're

1:00:28

in episode eight. So give me an example of that. What do

1:00:30

you mean by that? I'm feeling attention. Well, I'm

1:00:32

going to give you a negative example, which doesn't

1:00:34

feel all that fair. But like why did they

1:00:36

choose budget Dan Levy to be

1:00:39

the guy who's announcing what's happening in

1:00:41

space moment to moment? Like why was

1:00:43

that guy with his hipster hairdo be

1:00:45

like four, three, two, we

1:00:48

have lost the probe. Like

1:00:50

why is that guy doing that? That took me all the way

1:00:52

out. You know what I mean? That's

1:00:55

so weird. Guy, how

1:00:57

many times have we been in Cape

1:00:59

Canaveral in TV and movies? Okay.

1:01:02

And how many times have they been? How many

1:01:05

times have they had hipster haircuts? It's always a

1:01:07

guy who looks like Ed Harris who's only eaten

1:01:09

cigarettes for 30 years. I

1:01:11

wanted that guy. That took me

1:01:14

out. That took me out. That didn't bother

1:01:16

you. I guess I just also assumed

1:01:18

that everybody who's there like that Wade has

1:01:20

just taken over all facilities. So like it's

1:01:22

not necessarily the dudes who were doing mission

1:01:24

control for NASA that

1:01:27

now it's like the Wade initiative

1:01:29

people. And maybe he has like more

1:01:32

of a hipster haircut kind of requirement.

1:01:35

That's who he recruits? Yeah. Well, this

1:01:37

is also a world where Augie Salazar has invented

1:01:39

the world's greatest technology. So okay, I buy it.

1:01:41

She cleaned up water, man. In

1:01:43

terms of, she cleaned up one water once. You

1:01:46

know what I mean? Would

1:01:50

you want to be drinking tons of nano

1:01:52

fiber water? Oh, you

1:01:54

think it's like microplastic? Yeah. You

1:01:56

think your body will become tons of... I

1:01:59

think nano plastic. would be less of a problem for

1:02:01

our human biome. I just got

1:02:03

worried about microplastics like this week. This

1:02:06

week? What

1:02:09

have you been doing up to this week? Drinking

1:02:11

a ton of bottled water and plastic. Are

1:02:14

you, you know the way some people eat the whole apple, like

1:02:17

they eat the core and then look at you and be like,

1:02:19

what? No waste? Do you do that with Evian bottle? You just

1:02:21

crunch down? Your

1:02:23

body is macroplastics. Who

1:02:27

do you prefer in terms of stoic, know

1:02:31

it all leaders who are 10 steps ahead of

1:02:33

you? Do you prefer the Torinaga style or the

1:02:35

Wade style? Wade seems like he has a better

1:02:37

benefits package. For himself? Yeah. But almost

1:02:39

everybody who works for him, he's like, you'll have

1:02:41

it. I'll make the

1:02:43

call and that's like... Chili peppers. Yeah. But

1:02:47

for Torinaga, I feel like there's a lot of initiation

1:02:49

rituals you have to go through. Also

1:02:52

with Wade, it's cool. All you have to do is

1:02:54

be like, no. And he's like, and that's exactly why

1:02:56

I've hired you. You said yes, you'd

1:02:58

be the wrong person. Do

1:03:00

you think if Torinaga was in charge of

1:03:02

planetary defense, he'd be like, like,

1:03:06

Saul, you and Augie, what's

1:03:08

the story there? Live

1:03:11

together for a while. Yeah. He

1:03:14

is like that. No, he was hired with

1:03:16

Jim Boyfriend. With Jim and Raj. Wait. He

1:03:19

already hired Raj and

1:03:21

then he hired Jin and then

1:03:24

he made Jin tell Will to

1:03:26

choose death and eject his brain

1:03:28

into space. All of

1:03:30

our shows at the moment are like

1:03:32

psychosexual warlords. Yeah. They really... We need

1:03:34

more boy warlords. This is it. If

1:03:37

we have boy warlords running the Wade initiative,

1:03:39

we wouldn't have these problems. Also,

1:03:42

honestly, the one thing about three body problem that really

1:03:44

hits different is we have an aging

1:03:46

leader who says he's the only one up for the task.

1:03:48

And so rather than train anyone else to take over in

1:03:50

the next four centuries, he's like, I'll

1:03:52

just freeze myself and unfreeze myself for

1:03:54

a week at a time. That was

1:03:56

actually, I was like, be fucking for

1:03:58

real. You can't do that. They're

1:04:01

gonna do it. You saw what happened to the

1:04:03

cartoon monkey. But

1:04:05

you can't. Can you freeze and unfreeze

1:04:07

constantly to just check Wimbledon? That's

1:04:11

where we're headed. That's where we're gonna keep Liam Cunningham

1:04:13

on the show for however many

1:04:15

seasons. What would you consider to be a adequate

1:04:20

reason for unfreezing yourself while traveling

1:04:22

into deep space? What

1:04:24

would you want to be unfrozen to find out about? Oh,

1:04:27

if the Sixers make it past the second round. I thought you were

1:04:29

gonna be like drops of God season two. What are we just gonna

1:04:31

do? That seems

1:04:33

more likely, honestly, than

1:04:36

anything else. Last thought

1:04:38

on this for the moment, but like the

1:04:42

will part, I think, is in some ways the most

1:04:44

successful because it's the most human and it does have

1:04:47

a lot of time to develop. It's the least

1:04:49

drug in E2. Like it's just a guy who

1:04:51

kind of is conversant in this stuff but

1:04:54

has never found a purpose in his life, is

1:04:57

dying young, is

1:05:00

like the third person in all of his friends'

1:05:02

lives, except for Saul who's just like, I'll just

1:05:05

hang out here constantly. And

1:05:08

it just works. Like I have no idea why Augie

1:05:10

is as mad as she is. You

1:05:12

know, like I don't know why she's constantly swearing

1:05:14

and smoking and pissed, or

1:05:17

even why like her and Saul have any interest

1:05:19

in one another or why that's like some sort

1:05:21

of long, lost love. No chemistry, yeah. But Will

1:05:23

actually makes sense and maybe

1:05:25

it's because that character is so sedentary and it's

1:05:27

that you're only really given that

1:05:30

character's internal life and not much of

1:05:32

like, here's the mission that I'm

1:05:34

on and I've either failed it or succeeded. Would

1:05:38

you be down with that project? Would you be

1:05:40

willing to have your brain shot into space with

1:05:43

some chili peppers? I

1:05:46

don't see why not. If I was staring down 10

1:05:48

more days of life, like

1:05:51

I'm not precious about it. If you're gonna get

1:05:53

like cremated anyway, like what's the big deal? Well,

1:05:55

that's the thing, like we actually don't know what's

1:05:57

gonna happen anyway. So being reanimated by some aliens.

1:06:00

I think when Nelson pelt's was like we're gonna unfreeze

1:06:02

Walt Disney's brain and get back to the source, you

1:06:04

know You could do a lot of stuff He

1:06:11

does seem he does seem litigious Yeah,

1:06:13

it's weird that you know that we end up just sort

1:06:15

of joking about it because I think that So

1:06:18

much of the show is really commendable

1:06:21

really admirable. I really did love it There wasn't

1:06:23

a single moment when I well watching

1:06:25

it I didn't ever want to be watching it except when the

1:06:27

monkey was that the fake monkey was barfing That was my one.

1:06:29

I was like that's oh, yeah, cuz he was like that

1:06:32

that he had like air sickness Do

1:06:35

you want to talk a little bit about Top Chef before we

1:06:37

go or should we save it? I do want to talk about

1:06:39

it because too much three body problem. I had one other thing

1:06:41

about it All right. Let's do that. Which is we can save

1:06:43

Top Chef if you want for Monday So what like give me

1:06:45

the rest your three body problem Okay But I want people watching

1:06:47

Top Chef to be up on last chance kitchen too because I

1:06:50

want to talk about that including you Chris Ryan, I I'm sorry

1:06:53

Kitchen usually come out this early in the season They

1:06:56

started it after week after the second episode

1:06:59

to their two episodes deep. Okay, and

1:07:01

there's a reason why it's different this season I don't want

1:07:03

to spoil the surprise but it is different and I'm interested

1:07:05

in the way that it's different I love how your garden

1:07:07

Top Chef spoilers with your life, but we're just like and

1:07:09

then this guy gets shredded I

1:07:13

have to be careful because as as Kaya has

1:07:15

told me everyone who listens to the podcast listens

1:07:17

to every minute of it Yeah, and second really

1:07:19

the moment it's released So

1:07:21

three body problem, I think wildly

1:07:24

ambitious Hit or

1:07:26

miss in a lot of ways for me largely

1:07:29

a hit just because I want this type of

1:07:31

swing I want this type of storytelling. I really

1:07:33

like the ideas Behind

1:07:35

it and I was really compelled by it. I

1:07:37

think it's been interesting for a Free

1:07:40

project that is in some ways in the

1:07:42

old media model a slam dunk, right? Whether

1:07:44

it's for creative reasons whether it's for aesthetic

1:07:46

reasons or just purely financial reasons in terms

1:07:48

of the sunk cost of Benioff And Weiss

1:07:50

and their Netflix deal. This is one of

1:07:52

the most expensive TV shows ever made already

1:07:55

And it's you know for as much as

1:07:57

this is a reliable metric. It's top 10 top top

1:08:00

five, top three in most countries around the world. Sex

1:08:02

in the City isn't ahead of it yet. I

1:08:05

think it's coming up close. Which by the way, those are

1:08:07

the two things the three-body problem is uninterested in. Sex

1:08:11

or life in cities. So

1:08:13

it's a nice package deal. And

1:08:15

yet, I get the sense,

1:08:17

at least just from T-Lease, I

1:08:20

don't have any inside knowledge, but I do get the

1:08:22

sense that a second season is not guaranteed. I

1:08:25

would find that to be astonishing. It

1:08:27

would be astonishing, but there have been things

1:08:29

that have been astonishing in the last few

1:08:31

years in terms of companies, certain tech companies.

1:08:33

This would be like making, first of all,

1:08:35

that would be so stupid. What

1:08:37

are you doing this for? Just make

1:08:39

red box movies and rom-coms then, and

1:08:41

don't worry about telling multi-season

1:08:44

television arcs if you don't wanna bring

1:08:46

this back. I don't know why you would

1:08:48

invest in it. I honestly

1:08:50

would find it to be super

1:08:52

frustrating as a viewer coming

1:08:54

to it later and getting to the eighth episode and be

1:08:57

like, that's it? You guys aren't even making any more of

1:08:59

this? To me, you have to commit

1:09:01

to three seasons of this or whatever many seasons

1:09:03

they said. And furthermore, it's

1:09:05

like, give

1:09:08

people more than five minutes to get into

1:09:10

something. I think that

1:09:12

something like this, I watch it over

1:09:14

a weekend, you watch it over the course of two or three

1:09:16

weeks, some people are gonna take two or

1:09:18

three months, or some people might not find it until the

1:09:20

summer when school's out or whatever it is. I

1:09:23

don't know, it's just like the burn and churn of that

1:09:25

stuff really is a bummer. I would hope that those guys

1:09:28

had some pretty strong assurances that they were

1:09:31

gonna get to tell the full story that

1:09:33

they were signing up for unless

1:09:35

it was an unmitigated disaster, which I don't think it

1:09:37

was. Which it's not. And I

1:09:39

think that they have said that in

1:09:41

their view that have four seasons of this,

1:09:45

knowing how Netflix works behind the scenes, many,

1:09:47

many, many Netflix shows that have been canceled,

1:09:51

they're canceled after they have fully funded writers

1:09:54

rooms for the season for the library. That is business

1:09:56

as usual for them. So they are ready to go

1:09:58

to whatever degree they're ready to go. at this

1:10:00

stage in their production cycle anyway with the second season. And

1:10:02

I agree with you. I agree with you. It

1:10:04

should happen for storytelling reasons. And I agree

1:10:06

with you. It just should happen for the

1:10:08

health of the industry. I mean, it's insane.

1:10:10

It would be insane. Yeah, it would be

1:10:12

not unlike to me, Amazon

1:10:15

spending all that money on the Lord

1:10:17

of the Rings show, bringing the

1:10:19

power, then being like, nah, that

1:10:21

wasn't as good as we thought it was gonna be. We're done. Like,

1:10:24

forget it. A quarter of a billion that we've spent

1:10:26

on this, forget it. It's like,

1:10:28

yeah. Why are you

1:10:30

doing it in the first place? You may have to

1:10:32

spend a little to make a little here. And I

1:10:34

don't know how they make what they make off of

1:10:36

blockbusters. Blockbuster

1:10:38

movies or blockbusters? I can

1:10:41

see the money coming into Warner's

1:10:43

for Dune 2. It's a box

1:10:46

office return. You can kind of get a

1:10:48

sense of how much they've spent. You

1:10:50

kind of have a sense of how much it needs to make

1:10:52

for it to be a very profitable movie. It

1:10:54

makes a lot of sense. If three body

1:10:56

problem is only effective if it signs up

1:10:58

new customers, I don't know how many

1:11:00

more people out there who

1:11:03

don't have Netflix are gonna get it. And they probably

1:11:05

won't be doing that for a very

1:11:07

dense science fiction show. It's interesting because in the

1:11:09

conversation around the decision, and just for the record,

1:11:11

We're also getting really mad at Netflix when they

1:11:13

haven't said like, we're not pre-entered. No, I think

1:11:16

it'll come back. Yeah. I think

1:11:18

that it'll come back. God damn it, fellas. Like. But

1:11:21

I find the conversation interesting because in one of the

1:11:23

Hollywood Reporter stories, and I apologize, I don't have it

1:11:25

in front of me, but like one

1:11:27

of the heads, not Bella, but one of the heads of

1:11:29

scripted programming for Netflix, it's

1:11:32

described as being very personal to him. That like

1:11:34

he's passionate about the story. He loves this book.

1:11:38

It's interesting to me anytime one of

1:11:40

these streamers, but particularly Netflix, lapses

1:11:42

into old world language of

1:11:45

humanity. I just like this

1:11:47

material. I love this.

1:11:49

I wanna see this. So I wanna make sure

1:11:51

that we empower these creators to make it happen.

1:11:53

So again, like if the

1:11:55

reports are true that this show costs

1:11:57

$20 million an episode for this season.

1:12:01

That's insane and perhaps borderline irresponsible and you

1:12:03

when you end up in this world where

1:12:05

it's like Yes, Netflix has

1:12:07

to stand for more than the floor

1:12:09

is lava and singular like subscription driving

1:12:11

events There's probably also

1:12:13

a middle ground where you could get people to fall

1:12:15

in love with brilliant script television and know that they

1:12:17

can have more of it coming But

1:12:20

Netflix does that when they get suits and

1:12:22

white collar, so I don't fully understand their

1:12:24

thinking behind this but This

1:12:27

show is worthy of more I think that it

1:12:30

I just find the whole thing interesting It's Benioth and

1:12:32

it's Weiss and it's them trying to do what they

1:12:34

did so successfully with Game of Thrones in a complete

1:12:36

It's just a few years later, but it's a

1:12:38

different landscape with very very different

1:12:40

subject matter And

1:12:42

to hear them in these interviews doing what they did early

1:12:45

in Game of Thrones to being like well We

1:12:47

don't want to spoil it for the non-book readers, but

1:12:49

our W is coming if we get to do more

1:12:52

They are like yes season three. We're gonna do a

1:12:54

thing Okay,

1:12:56

I'm interested yeah Andy

1:12:59

great great talking to you today. I

1:13:01

hope you have a wonderful rest of your your

1:13:03

well-earned break and We

1:13:05

will see each other in person on Monday Yeah,

1:13:08

do you want me to continue to give you 100 foot

1:13:10

wave style dispatches from the height of my?

1:13:14

two inch Two four

1:13:16

inches. Yeah, watch it out there. I

1:13:19

if the waves blow you towards the cliffs. It's

1:13:21

over So just be real careful. Yeah Thanks

1:13:24

to Kyra for producing us. We'll be back on Monday. Probably talking

1:13:26

a little bit of Ripley maybe some

1:13:28

sugar Some top chef

1:13:30

and whatever else happens over the weekend Andy great to

1:13:32

see you spring break Brancis