0:00

What's up guys? It's your boy Johnny

0:02

bananas and I'll be covering all the

0:04

treachery deceit Backstabbing and murder

0:06

from season two of the traders

0:09

us on my podcast death taxes

0:11

and bananas I'll be joined all

0:13

season by my fellow cast mates

0:15

to swap stories Provide all the

0:17

behind-the-scenes antics and sorted details from

0:20

filming So Sally forth and join

0:22

me for season two of the

0:24

traders every Saturday on the ringer

0:26

reality TV podcast feed This

0:30

episode is brought to by Amazon Prime You

0:32

know Amazon Prime is not just a shipping

0:34

subscription, right? Amazon Prime isn't just

0:37

one thing but a collection of excellent services

0:40

Amazon Prime offers a range of services

0:42

including Prime video Amazon

0:45

music and Prime

0:47

fast-free shipping They

0:50

also have great shows great movies.

0:53

Here's my favorite Amazon Prime thing

0:55

ready So we

0:57

do the rewatchables, right? And I always

0:59

like to know like who the actor is They

1:02

have this really cool thing when you watch a

1:04

movie called x-ray You can click on as

1:06

you watch the movie and the cast will pop up and

1:09

you can see who all the actors are and

1:11

it Sounds dumb, but when you host

1:13

a movie podcast, it's like the greatest thing ever

1:15

anytime I rent or buy a movie. I buy

1:17

it on Amazon Prime. That's true I

1:20

swear on Prime whatever you're into or

1:22

just getting into Prime service can help you get

1:24

closer to it Or discover something

1:26

else to get into whatever you're into. It's

1:29

on Prime Visit amazon.com/prime

1:31

to get more out of

1:33

whatever you're into This episode

1:35

is brought to you by peacock from

1:37

co-creators Mike judge and Zack woods the

1:39

new semi animated peacock original series in

1:41

the know Follows Lauren

1:43

Caspian public radio's third most

1:45

popular host. He's a well-meaning

1:47

center-left Bourgeois Nimrod and

1:50

a stop-motion puppet along

1:52

with his ragtag staff of lovable misfits

1:55

Lauren produces a program called in the

1:57

know the show features Interviews

2:00

with real human guests including Finn Wolfhard,

2:03

Tegan and Sarah, and Mike Tyson. In

2:06

The Know is streaming now only on Peacock. In

2:10

the Know is streaming now only on Peacock. Stand

2:13

up and walk now. Hello and

2:15

welcome to The Watch. My name is Andy

2:17

Greenwald. I have no official designation at the

2:19

ringer, but my guest today on the other

2:22

line does, Joanna Robinson.

2:24

Welcome. Oh my God, what a

2:26

thrill to enjoy and I love sitting

2:28

here and pretending we didn't just talk for

2:30

two hours about another TV show. This is

2:32

a big day of podcasting for us. We're

2:35

fresh. So to be clear, my usual co-host

2:37

Chris Ryan is on tour like

2:39

all the famous bands. He is

2:41

out on the road with Bill and Mal and

2:43

Sean on the rewatchables cold weather tour. I feel

2:45

like it's sold out, so I won't say go

2:47

see them in Philadelphia tonight, but I wish you

2:50

could. That sounds really fun. And

2:52

Chris asked me, am I going to

2:55

go solo today? I said, oh,

2:57

Chris, no, I'm going to go Jorro. And

3:00

we double booked. We did record an episode of

3:02

Stick the Landing earlier, which is TBD. That'll

3:05

be out in a few weeks, but now we're going to talk watch. We're going

3:07

to do watch stuff. You ready? I'm

3:09

so ready. Never been more ready. Very thrilled

3:11

to have you here. We're going to talk

3:13

about the new Amazon Prime show,

3:16

X-Pats from director Lulu Wang, which debuted over

3:18

the last few days. I guess the third

3:20

episode's coming out tomorrow.

3:23

You have also been doing great work on

3:25

True Detective Night Country. So ahead

3:27

of this weekend's fourth episode, we're going to

3:29

feel like we can do a cross the

3:31

streams pod, talk about it from maybe some

3:33

different perspectives than we had in advance of

3:35

the fourth episode. But

3:38

before all of that, I

3:40

had to I had to do it to him. Yeah,

3:43

Joe, you are a frequent host on

3:46

the Ringiverse podcast. You

3:50

and Mal do House of Ar podcast

3:52

together. The last time you were on

3:54

the watch was to promote your fantastic

3:56

book, MCU. And I kind of want

3:58

to pick your brain. about

4:00

the state of big IP

4:02

franchises. Now we talk about this

4:04

stuff a lot from our particular

4:08

ornery perspective on this show. I

4:10

feel like you are more in those IP streets and

4:13

maybe have in some of these cases have more

4:15

skin in the game. And

4:17

so we didn't play on

4:19

this segment so much as I kind of want to just know

4:22

what's the temperature in your mind of

4:24

where these things are. Are they in a good place? Are there

4:26

good things coming? Are we misreading it? Is there stuff

4:29

happening behind the scenes that we don't know

4:31

about but you do do to your contacts

4:33

or a knowledge of the

4:36

deep web. So

4:38

let's go through it. The first one

4:40

obviously has to be Marvel.

4:43

And when we last talked about

4:45

the book, we were

4:47

all and I feel like on your press tour there was

4:49

a lot of like have we reached the end of the

4:51

road here. And that may have been just before the Marvels

4:53

tanked and before Echo

4:56

was like in the in the midst

4:58

of the Marvels. Yeah, so where are

5:00

we here in 2024? What

5:02

has changed? What hasn't changed? And

5:04

what's your read on things? I

5:07

would say well and

5:09

also there's been the sort of official Jonathan

5:11

Majors. Oh my God, we

5:13

didn't talk about that. Oh great. Yes. Yeah. I

5:16

think that just hyper

5:19

recently I would say it's

5:21

a bad look for Marvel that Steven

5:24

Yeun and IO

5:26

Debery both exit Thunderbolts. It's like the

5:28

cool kids don't want to have anything

5:30

to do with Marvel anymore. Right? That's

5:33

what those two departments feel like. That was wild.

5:35

It's not just I mean, first of

5:37

all, when a movie is delayed as long as

5:39

Thunderbolts is and you had the strikes like scheduling

5:41

things are going to happen. But those

5:43

two actors in particular who just cleaned up

5:45

at the Emmys who are right. I don't

5:47

know if they are household names, although I

5:49

was hosting Saturday Night Live this weekend. Like

5:52

they are incredibly valuable performers

5:55

just for cash. I mean, they're beloved. They're

5:57

talented. They're on the they're on the company.

6:00

They're who you want to have under a seven picture

6:02

deal and now they're out of the meat

6:05

and they're gone. Um, so It's

6:09

just there was a point of marvel trajectory where

6:11

they could have anyone Anyone

6:13

they ever wanted would do a

6:15

marvel picture Uh, and this

6:17

is you know, no longer the case

6:20

I would say. Um, I think what's interesting to look

6:22

ahead for marvel in 2024 Is

6:25

there's only one marvel movie coming out

6:28

this year? And it's deadpool 3 which

6:30

is yeah half a marvel movie half

6:32

not a marvel movie I

6:34

think from from my behind the

6:36

scenes perspective. I would say something that's

6:39

probably quite obvious anyone listening Which is that

6:41

they know how much is writing on that movie? And

6:44

that is part of the reason why they've cleared

6:46

they've cleared the decks in so many different ways

6:49

like do you remember when we got we had like four

6:51

or five marvel shows a year, right and we're gonna

6:53

have like a movie

6:55

and Maybe I guess

6:57

that like I I could not say with confidence

7:00

and dare that we're gonna have a marvel tv and daredevil

7:02

is officially not 2024 Correct,

7:05

right because they're sort of back to the

7:07

drawing board and echo I feel like when you were on

7:09

here last time you were you were willing to say that

7:11

that might not be An a-list product.

7:13

I feel like it seems like they did

7:15

the best they could they did get a

7:18

pretty good media cycle out of being Like

7:20

we made it hard our tvma we're steering

7:22

into it and that seemed to get some

7:24

positive response in theory but the show

7:28

Happened it was not good. I mean I

7:31

think I think the upshot of echo Actually,

7:35

the positive responses I saw were from people

7:37

being like hey, sometimes this feels like this

7:39

is a reservation dog And when the

7:41

show felt like it was yeah And when the show

7:43

felt like it was a reservation dog people really seemed

7:45

to be really into it Um,

7:47

it's such a funny inversion of this moment where

7:50

like a couple years ago We were like, oh

7:52

all the things we like in culture marvel can

7:54

do their version of it And now we're parsing

7:56

marvel products for little scraps of things we preferred

7:59

in other iterations It's the reverse. Correct.

8:01

And so this idea of like, is Echo

8:03

gonna turn like a question I got asked on

8:05

press tour was is Echo

8:07

gonna turn everything around? And I was like, no, I mean, absolutely

8:09

not. They're binge jumping it. Like it's

8:12

not, that's not what's happening here. But

8:14

could Deadpool three turn the tide? I

8:18

think possibly. So turn

8:21

the narrative in a certain direction. So about

8:23

that, this is sort of the theory I've been kicking around.

8:25

It's not a theory. But I think it's the theory of

8:27

an observation, which is

8:30

Marvel seems to either understand or

8:32

it's just behaving as if its

8:34

current cinematic universe

8:37

is damaged goods. It

8:40

is pushing its tips into all

8:42

universes and other things, which is

8:45

what makes Deadpool three. Deadpool

8:47

one and two were not Marvel movies. They

8:49

were Fox movies. Now it's a Marvel

8:51

movie. And all

8:53

the implications is they've they're going all in on it.

8:56

And we're gonna see a lot of people on a

8:58

lot of stuff that we hadn't before. They

9:00

are now the ones clout chasing with another

9:02

studios franchise to reboot their own. They've cleared

9:05

the deck. So a popular anticipated movie will

9:07

come out with a Marvel name attached to

9:09

it. Like is this is this an over

9:11

read of it? An

9:13

over read of the current situation, but I would

9:16

just say that they're,

9:18

they just did it with Spider-Man

9:20

for some reason. Yeah. And

9:23

so it's not a new thing. I guess

9:25

for me though, the

9:27

Spider-Man thing, this with the co-production with Sony,

9:29

with the Tom Holland movies is the narrative

9:31

was, and this was spelled out wonderfully in

9:33

your book. Sony was like,

9:36

we don't know what to do with this anymore.

9:38

And Marvel's like, we'll help. And so that was

9:40

a Feige's the golden touch. He saved Spider-Man for

9:42

Sony. This seems like Ryan

9:44

Reynolds personally, because I don't think Fox wanted to make Deadpool

9:47

for a long time in the original version of it either.

9:50

They're gonna save it for him. And then the

9:52

other thing on the horizon that people are waiting

9:54

on is for Fantastic Four to be

9:57

confirmed, which again, based on

10:00

I don't think this has been confirmed, but my

10:02

understanding of the project is that it's alt universe

10:04

that like it's It's not it's

10:06

gonna establish the Fantastic Four as the Fantastic Four

10:08

where they've been the fantastic for it's not an

10:11

origin story It's something that was building the secret

10:13

wars That's again being like

10:15

hey look at this thing we can still do if we don't

10:17

have it touch our other stuff it

10:20

is wild that the Nostalgia

10:23

fumes coming off of like Deadpool

10:25

3 which again rumor has

10:27

it I mean we're see Jen Garner is

10:29

a lecture like more has it we're pulling

10:32

in a lot of actors who played X-Men

10:34

for Fox And

10:36

so similar, you know in the same vein as

10:38

the most recent Spider-Man movie where we are wrapping

10:40

our arms around The Andrew

10:42

Garfield films and the Tomahawk wire films and

10:44

the Tom Holland films and it's all one

10:46

cohesive Joint that is I

10:49

think what they're trying to do with Deadpool

10:51

3 where they can wrap their arms around

10:53

because the X-Men franchise Spotty

10:56

as heck right like try

10:58

to wrap their arms around Plucking

11:00

out what has worked redeeming what didn't work,

11:02

but make it funny now that Ryan Reynolds

11:04

can like kind of direct a

11:06

dress to the camera and make fun of it I Understand

11:10

why that's something they want to do They want

11:13

to make it all feel coherent and

11:15

like they're in on the joke and that's what Deadpool can

11:17

offer to them But

11:20

you're right, I mean it is it I have Rarely

11:23

seen a Toppling

11:27

of a giant the way that we've seen Marvel

11:29

in just the last year It was like

11:31

a year to is what it felt like

11:33

quick things on this point and and I'm putting

11:35

you on the spot with This you you're sourced

11:37

you've reported stuff If it's

11:39

no comment or you have nothing to add to it,

11:41

that's okay But I'm curious about two things in particular one

11:43

is there seems to be

11:46

a very credible final fantastic forecast list

11:48

That is just discussed and

11:50

known Pedro Pascal Vanessa Kirby

11:52

Joseph Quinn and Evan Moss back rack. It has

11:54

not been confirmed or announced Do you know why

11:56

that is? Do you have any insight

11:58

into what's going on there? I

12:01

don't, but again, that sort of speaks to

12:03

what they're chasing. If they're

12:05

chasing Evan Moss-Backrack and Joe Quinn,

12:07

that's, you know, that

12:11

is the exact same demographic as it would

12:13

be interested in seeing AON, Steven

12:16

Yeon and something. You know what I mean? Like,

12:18

that's who they are interested in investing

12:20

in. And I'll be

12:22

very curious to see. I don't know why. I

12:25

mean, I heard that that was supposed to be

12:27

announced at New York Comic Con

12:29

last year. Yeah.

12:33

So maybe they're all showing up at Deadpool 3. What

12:38

about any other thoughts on the Jonathan

12:40

Majors, Kang thing? You know, again, not

12:42

speaking specifically about Jonathan Majors and his

12:45

conviction and the case that led us

12:47

here, but more specifically, as soon

12:49

as that conviction happened, Marvel had the press release ready. They

12:51

cut bait. He's done. He's

12:53

done it anymore. He is not

12:56

Kang. Clearly, this did not happen that day

12:58

when the verdict was announced. Do you have

13:00

any insight into the thinking behind

13:02

that decision? But I guess maybe the richer

13:04

question is, do you think

13:06

this is, again, the specifics of a

13:08

criminal case I'm not asking you about? We

13:11

all wish that wasn't the case and we all wish none of this

13:13

had happened. But

13:15

is this, is the jettisoning of

13:17

Kang, in this version of Kang,

13:19

a good creative thing for Marvel, in

13:22

your opinion? I

13:25

actually think yes, because I don't think it was working

13:27

out the way that they wanted it to work out

13:29

in the first place. And I think in terms of

13:31

timeline of decision making, I would

13:33

look towards when Jeff

13:35

Lowness was writing

13:37

the Kang Dynasty films, like

13:39

when he exited. And

13:42

it became something else. That's when

13:44

I would look to like when the actual decisions

13:46

were made. And I think what's

13:48

interesting about the Loki season two finale is that

13:50

contrary to what was

13:53

reported, I think it was in THR, when

13:56

some Anonymous Insider

13:58

said, they've totally. Screw

14:00

themselves so muggy. Finale Sensor That said tang is

14:02

super popular at know the look even though it's

14:04

it's it up where you can just pay off.

14:06

They did it, They handled gangs so they have

14:08

that was. Sets. In

14:10

the at it as in the edited. The look is is

14:12

to finale as that they are and he did. They were going to

14:14

do that A bio it by the words it's I'll do some reporting

14:17

my own. I. Were. Talking about as if

14:19

it's like in the past like there's There's a

14:21

lot of stuff on the rise and they are

14:23

trying. this is a very big deal. Still eyes.

14:25

I drove into the studio today. I drove past

14:27

the beautiful restored video It's Theater and Eagle Rock

14:29

and under Markey said wonderment. And there

14:31

were there trucks around. so I think they're

14:33

filming that show here right now. So

14:36

the grave marker that I can hear

14:38

to bury Marvel I and Savior as

14:40

a minor time to toss you and

14:43

your and I handed you a shovel

14:45

snow. And like Marvel cause it's great and

14:47

I wanted to. I did whatever thing to feel

14:49

the way it does when it's firing on all

14:51

cylinders. it'll be all while we want us to

14:53

be guide. I'm you know, even if. You.

14:57

Know according to our lord and savior

14:59

concern all and we earn a post

15:01

ip world Now I think I've he's

15:03

not going anywhere, that's something or and

15:05

talk about a little either. And I

15:08

think I'm. Use

15:10

of what. What were handed,

15:12

the sequels and a friend has that

15:14

were handed to feel as complex and

15:16

Gcn satisfying as they can be. So

15:18

we just want these things because. Speaking.

15:21

Of of so I do what it is it as a

15:23

bit one to ten ten. Super. Confident.

15:26

One oh boy, where are you with the

15:28

hims? You. Just. Today, February

15:30

First. Twenty Four. I'm.

15:35

At like six or seven.

15:39

And then I think that you know I think they

15:41

have it's real chances year. And.

15:44

With at though the Riviera room rearview I

15:46

think the route his is here to. Yell.

15:49

Drop. Some some sense and and

15:51

when back some safe I'm infinity jumps

15:53

he will mom that let's move across

15:55

the comic book hallway to the Dc

15:57

you which is been announcing some stuff.

16:00

about James Gunn's vision, Millie Alcock from

16:02

House of the Dragon was officially cast

16:04

as Supergirl. Superman Legacy,

16:06

James Gunn's movie is amping

16:09

up to production to add a few more cast

16:11

members. I

16:13

don't actually have any idea where you stand on any of

16:16

the DC stuff if you are a fan, if you're hopeful.

16:18

So in the spirit of like one to ten

16:20

with these announcements, it's more of a blank slate.

16:23

Where are you with this and what is your read

16:25

on this from your corner of the ring reverse? From

16:28

the one to ten, I would say for this I'm

16:30

at an eight

16:32

possibly. There's been a

16:34

lot of disappointing

16:36

storytelling out of the DCEU.

16:41

The issue, I'm really interested to see what

16:43

James Gunn will do. I like to see

16:45

the Suicide Squad movie. Obviously Guardians

16:47

3 is there just like being held up as the last

16:49

great thing that Marvel did, etc. I

16:53

have a hard time wrapping my

16:56

brain around James Gunn plus Superman.

16:59

It just doesn't seem like the

17:01

DC superhero for the James

17:03

Gunn sensibility. That sort

17:05

of ironic, that kind of

17:08

gross sensibility that he has.

17:11

I've been told, not by Kaya who's doing

17:13

a great job here, but I've been told friction makes

17:16

podcasts work. I disagree with you.

17:19

I am anti-DCU generally. I was always

17:21

a Marvel kid. I don't really

17:23

have any opinion about DC superheroes. I'm not in the tank for

17:25

them. I'm not going to show up no matter what as I

17:27

have proven with my wallet over

17:29

the last 10, 20 years. I

17:33

think the thing about James Gunn is

17:35

that he's a softy. He's a giant

17:37

sentimental softy. What made the Guardians of the

17:40

Galaxy movies work is that they were him

17:42

working his way through the gross out trauma.

17:45

Not trauma, although kind

17:47

of, T-R-O-M-A. Roger

17:49

Corman's stuff that was his DNA and it's like shocking.

17:51

I'm going to tweet crazy stuff because that's how I

17:54

interact with the world to being like, actually, I just

17:56

want my friends, animals and humans to hug. Superman,

17:59

I think. Like he is for

18:01

many. People have a certain age. Is.

18:04

The best of us and like the

18:06

most. Perfect in pure and best comedy.

18:08

Have a wonderful and pure icon is

18:10

the of the Christopher Reeves. Gentle.

18:13

Slapstick stuff. The people around him can be

18:15

messy but he's known as in the same

18:17

way that like Tracks doesn't get the joke.

18:19

know what I mean? So I just I

18:21

have wildly weird high expectations. I think this

18:24

movie's gonna be great. Ah I'm

18:26

really excited about the cast you mentioned

18:28

earlier part but like Razor Brosnahan and

18:30

Lois Lane i think is tense and

18:33

another. Nicole it's has ever done nothing wrong

18:35

in his life except for the track him

18:37

as he may last year true but other

18:39

I'm always good and he's playing with always

18:41

always interesting is always guy He and. Honest.

18:44

With weird choices. She's. Great

18:46

since the the snow. whole hank

18:48

know hang from the barriers.

18:50

Guess. We're. Also who try to the

18:52

name of the actors play Superman is something friends

18:54

with. I'm I'm David trade with David and as

18:57

I said before the Spike as he's from Philly.

18:59

So a Superman comes from Philly like guy I'm

19:01

on board. I would I

19:03

be. Other thing that's ringing asleep alarm

19:05

bell for me is that we've got

19:07

ah. There's gonna be a green lantern. This

19:09

there's gonna be. Hot Girl

19:11

in this metamorphose. Like

19:13

We're We're We're putting in a

19:15

bunch of Justice League characters into

19:17

this movie. And that. On.

19:20

The What: It makes sense. Three cousins gun

19:22

less, a team up. But on the other

19:24

hands, Concerns. The slightly because

19:26

the whole. Walk.

19:29

Before you can run issue that Dc

19:31

you had the first place where they

19:33

me Mina Steel and. I'm

19:35

like. The number one Zack Snyder

19:38

hater but I will be in his corner for

19:40

this and say see wanted to make man. Of. Steel

19:42

to of yeah and they said

19:44

no yes yes as Batman. Vs.

19:46

Superman. Give us at this league immediately

19:48

and that was. Enough,

19:50

The downfall of i think you're and I think you're pointing

19:52

out says that's that's the. Biggest. Worry

19:55

of this which I think the Montreux

19:57

that is just not been accepted for

19:59

various corporate reasons. is, guys,

20:01

make one good movie. You

20:03

cannot run before you walk. Make one

20:05

good movie. And it did seem to

20:07

be like Superman Legacy, the very intentional

20:09

using of the Frank Quitely artwork, I

20:12

think, from Grant Morrison's brilliant

20:14

all-star Superman run, suggested that James Gunn was

20:16

going to give us a movie that encapsulated

20:18

the spirit of one hero that would then

20:20

have a trickle-down effect on

20:22

the larger cinematic universe should they get to

20:24

make it. But this is like

20:27

Kevin Feige is also making the movie. So

20:29

he has to seed his own garden, and he's

20:31

in charge of tilling the garden for the next

20:34

10 years. That's my concern

20:36

too, as if his eyes get bigger than his

20:38

stomach and he makes a movie about an

20:40

entire universe in one, which would be

20:42

a bummer, honestly. It's very

20:44

possible that this

20:46

hot girl, this green lantern, this

20:48

metamorphol, et cetera, are cameos,

20:51

barely in it. That's possible. I

20:55

just have Justice League

20:57

trauma, trauma, still in

20:59

my bones. I'm

21:02

completely with you. So what was your

21:04

number on this one? Eight.

21:08

We're not talking about the state of something. Things are always best

21:10

at the beginning. I will say

21:12

the slate that they announced was really, I'm

21:15

a nine on the slate. I

21:17

was just when I, I was like, okay, obviously they're starting with

21:19

Superman, that makes a lot of sense to me. But

21:22

it was almost like, I almost felt like James

21:24

Gunn, of course

21:26

you couldn't help but dish yourself up like

21:28

the prime rib. But I was like, but I think you could

21:31

have been better suited on one of

21:33

the other type of thing. I also think, this

21:35

hasn't been reported, but I feel like he

21:38

probably pitched a Superman movie that led to

21:40

the larger conversation about taking over all of

21:42

it. Or

21:44

he had the take. I don't, we don't

21:47

know which led what, but, because it

21:49

is sketchy that he was like, who knows who will make

21:51

Superman When maybe his

21:53

deal points weren't done. Yeah, I mean, he

21:55

Dick Cheney's himself, right? He's like, I'll leave

21:57

an exhaustive search. The.

22:01

Okay, fatiguing of the in a

22:03

minute obviously. Reveal

22:05

my own thick, fattier. they let's why don't you?

22:07

Just why do you guys just relax? make one

22:09

good movie? Ah, We're going to move on

22:11

to Star Wars. We are labor that way too

22:13

much in this podcast by that's why. Want to get

22:16

your sense? As someone who had me. At

22:18

who has more generous I think then I have

22:20

been it to some of these products and projects.

22:22

You have a deeper connection to some of them.

22:25

What's. Your take on where that. Universe

22:27

expands right now. I

22:30

might. I might. Be. More puzzling

22:32

Simon, you are. But I. Prefer

22:35

more than the low

22:37

bar lead. Made Us

22:39

isn't series. Was very

22:42

bumpy for me. So Co is

22:44

somewhat bumpy for me an email I

22:46

think we both agree that and or

22:49

was incredible. And so it's to look.

22:51

his films benefit that on the Horizon

22:53

is eight or season. To an acolyte,

22:56

Leslie Hamilton's and I have heard from

22:58

people seen a couple of says the

23:00

backlight that it is tremendously good. I'm.

23:03

Unreasonably excited for accolade a.

23:06

Particular. Because it is on hooked from a

23:08

lot of what we seen recently with like the

23:10

only one so are the is. A good

23:12

like unhook from the larger continuity. Ah, And

23:14

the in the lecture notes, that means that

23:16

the show has been in preproduction development, in

23:18

in production, and now in post production for

23:20

an incredibly long time. Which. Hopefully is

23:22

a good sign. They they let it cook. Taxes

23:26

Incredible. Ah, I'm

23:29

so. Yes please, Please

23:31

make a movie again. Ever. Is.

23:33

Definitely. On our.

23:36

Minds though, I am. Worried.

23:38

About so. Positive. Announced

23:40

via dei Felony so. If

23:43

I'm choosing to accentuate the positive which I

23:45

think you've brought me here to do in

23:47

contrast year ordinariness I would say and or

23:49

season two. And. isolate are to

23:51

credibly pricing run weirdly. If.

23:54

you're just looking for the vantage point of february first

23:56

twenty twenty four i would be more bullish on their

23:58

tv slate which also skeleton crew which we

24:01

know nothing about but if that's more of like

24:03

a kids on a journey kind of thing and

24:05

Jude Law's in It and John Watts who made

24:07

spider-man is involved like okay, that could be if

24:10

they made a kid show, okay I've

24:12

been secretly excited for skeleton. Well, not secretly. I've

24:14

been talking about it, but I've been excited for skeleton crew a little

24:17

worried I think they just bumped it back. So

24:19

that makes me a little worried But my and

24:21

sometimes bumping back is a good and then you

24:24

have acolyte and you have and or my concern

24:26

is acolyte and and or Seem to have nothing

24:28

to do with the larger plans. Certainly the cinematic

24:30

plans From from

24:32

Lucasfilm and that remains big question mark

24:34

with the movies that have been announced

24:36

whether it's Daisy Ridley returning as Rey

24:38

in movie TBD or it's Dave Filoni

24:40

being like guess what? This is a

24:42

movie now this thing I shot with puppets in Manhattan

24:45

Beach Okay, I don't need to do that again today Near

24:49

and dear to your heart definitely than mine

24:51

Game of Thrones verse today some news broke

24:53

that our old pals Dan and Dave Weiss

24:56

and Benioff are using their Netflix deal

24:58

for more than just three-body problem, which

25:00

is coming out next month They are

25:02

executive producing a show called

25:07

Death by lightning with a remarkable

25:09

cast of Matthew McFadgen fresh off of

25:11

another Emmy for succession and Michael Shannon

25:15

But this is a dramatic

25:17

retelling of the assassination of

25:19

president James Garfield When

25:22

they said they were doing a historical thing. I was like

25:24

did they get Netflix to do Confederate? Bring

25:27

it back into the news cycle They seem to

25:29

have a job that was remember those

25:31

that week on the Internet

25:33

a legendary week That was incredible Anyway,

25:37

I only bring this up to say they've moved on I

25:40

don't know if anybody's wanting was asking for the

25:42

show but with this cast in this pedigree sure

25:46

the Game of Thrones itself remains Big

25:48

business for HBO or max or whatever you

25:50

want to call it House of

25:52

D coming back This year.

25:55

What's your larger take on That

25:57

show heading into second season, but also. The.

26:00

Larger universe because a lot of stuff's been announced.

26:02

A lot of stuff is never. Been.

26:05

Put. Into production were use our you

26:07

how are you is. How

26:09

am I? As a good question on

26:11

the thrones friends and I would say

26:13

idea isn't too soon I said for.

26:17

A nine seven Kingdoms as the. What

26:19

they have said is going to be the next. So

26:22

that they put in protect right? so.

26:24

Neither. The Seven Kingdoms is based on

26:26

some of George Armor and prequel series

26:28

right? That's like said Dunk and Egg

26:31

said. The Duncan Eggs in a valid

26:33

or even briefly that was being developed

26:35

are not briefly We have no idea.

26:37

By Stephen Conrad who is fiercely beloved

26:39

by certain fans of Coffee Tv as

26:41

he made Patriot's Ah, he's no longer

26:43

part of it. It is now straight

26:45

series on. H B O

26:47

from the pre existing. Hot

26:50

The I like that brain trust of I'm

26:52

Fine Condo and George Rr Martin and then

26:54

also a writer called Ira Parker's Hims Different.

26:56

The pilot is when they're going off of.

26:59

Who. Knows I'm getting some slight. This

27:02

has happened before vibes because remember you certainly

27:05

remember any to be a. Greenlit

27:07

a pilot yeah that they were me was

27:09

the Naomi Watts it they were very unhappy

27:11

with because it was fairly quite different from

27:13

what Game of Thrones had been and they immediately

27:15

backtracking there were like. George. Rr.

27:17

Martin and Dragons. And then they made

27:19

as the dragon similarly develop. This is even

27:21

Conrad another like you guys know how to

27:24

do this. So these guys seem to be

27:26

shepherding. This. Whole corner of

27:28

the universe for the Vs Am.

27:30

Yeah, and then dissenting nuns, You

27:32

know, which is it. That

27:36

almost seems to me to be a favor

27:38

to George Citizens of this is the So

27:40

the George's really wanted for very long time

27:42

so as not as not a favor and

27:45

like his views on the favor business. but

27:47

yeah sort of like right. George's.

27:51

Dismissal line. Maybe we could be guided

27:53

by him. He's really high on this

27:55

concepts. and second, a car. You know

27:57

it's it, has nights, it's you know,

27:59

to. The wandering around and ends at

28:01

solving crimes as I was excited and

28:03

lives release ahead for it's it's a

28:05

different it's not really that spans now.

28:08

Absolute like the show George Rr. Martin

28:10

would wonder right now. But. Has

28:13

and I feel like that's the

28:15

reason sisters. But. There's

28:17

a bunch of others that are in

28:20

developments that I don't know we'll ever

28:22

see. There's one called Sea Snake which

28:24

is a prequel. Basin seems to sense

28:26

character from South the Giants as ten

28:28

thousand sets theres they're getting into and

28:30

a dirt am. I was recently blogging

28:32

about. How they want to make a serum

28:34

for his writings is marina but I am is by

28:37

his buddies that you have a blog. who doesn't. Adidas

28:39

and he loves football and he loves woes

28:41

and he doesn't like. Reading. Books and I

28:43

mean, or and that's honestly denounced, so

28:46

related will contact. Honestly, I'm. He.

28:48

Talked about how much are they want to

28:50

move into the world of animated and he

28:52

cited by Samurai's Langford of and let's let's

28:55

go for that sounds so. Depressing that. The

28:57

thing I will say and this is not breaking

28:59

news that read it. You can pretend that I

29:01

broke me that he wants you but I'm not

29:03

backing this. Have Any Lights is not confirmed. By

29:06

for the Jon Snow series of Can Do I

29:08

Like to Arrington. Really we're going to make it

29:10

on So series and I've heard it's not. I've

29:12

heard is ongoing but I am I to be

29:15

wrong. Well he's on

29:17

industry season three with a different type of snow

29:19

as crysis job before so I'm I'm not a

29:21

more focused on that but that that but that

29:23

is interesting. I mean I think that the. His

29:26

ego. It's not easy for us but we talk

29:28

about specially the perspective you had chronicling the rise

29:30

of of Marvel and I said this when you

29:32

run the pod before and you said this many times

29:34

like. He. Really was almost.

29:37

Accidental. That they that it worked. And

29:39

then you see in various ways of

29:41

the the things we're talking about. just

29:43

the management of these things is so

29:45

delicate and I think H B O

29:47

has. You. Know it from a purely

29:50

like business perspective of someone. You know my opinions

29:52

about the shows. Whatever. I. Think they've

29:54

been judicious. I think they've been careful. Obviously.

29:57

There's budgetary reasons for that to to the Qantas

29:59

right to undermine. checks for shows about dragons

30:01

all the time. But I think

30:03

they're right to be careful. But I think the other thing

30:05

about it is like, how do you grow?

30:07

How do you maintain? How do you grow your audience? How

30:09

do you maintain the audience? How do you keep them fed? And

30:12

the fact that there have been so many projects hinted

30:14

at, and then even more projects that

30:16

have gone further than probably what we may ever

30:18

realize only to be, you know, to

30:20

be cut down or walked away from is kind

30:23

of remarkable. And

30:25

I have some kingdoms I think is interesting

30:27

as a potential next project because source material

30:30

exists. Right. And I think that's putting

30:32

that up against a nebulous Jon Snow

30:34

series that is based on whatever fan

30:36

fiction they want to write about what Jon Snow would

30:38

do after the events of Game of

30:41

Thrones. They know they're so smart over

30:44

at HBO. They know

30:46

how we feel about Game of Thrones and how

30:48

Game of Thrones is strongest when it was an

30:50

adaptation. And then when it became fan fiction became

30:52

much weaker. And so, you know, they're like, well,

30:54

let's go with the show. House of the Dragon

30:56

is based on Fire and Blood, a book. It

30:58

is significantly fleshing out that

31:00

book, but it is based on a

31:03

book. So they have text that George

31:05

RR Martin has written in the Dunkin' Egg novella.

31:07

So why not put that

31:09

into production? That makes a lot of sense

31:11

to me. In addition to telling me your number score

31:13

for where you feel about the management of the Thrones

31:16

IP, the House of Thrones. Yeah. Do you think like

31:19

one thing that I took away, I don't know where you are with

31:21

these shows. We've never talked about it. But like, I like The Boys.

31:24

I really enjoy that show. I had

31:26

no time at all for Generation V for

31:28

the spin off. Not only because I didn't

31:30

like it, just point blank. Yeah. I was

31:32

like, I don't need more. I'm good. Like

31:34

The Boys is everything. And now you've sliced

31:37

off like Paul Sorvino and Goodfellas like a

31:39

sliver of the other thing. And you're telling

31:41

me that the whole meal.

31:43

Yeah, I'm good. And I kind of

31:45

wonder about that with Game of Thrones, which

31:48

is to say like, it is smart

31:50

financially to feed the beast to give

31:52

people more dragons and all history of

31:54

a world that we know. But

31:56

I do think it might be dwindling

31:58

returns for people. As a

32:00

casual, I'm not

32:02

as engaged. That's so funny. I don't

32:05

think of you as a casual, but... Well, professionally, I've

32:07

not been a casual about Game of Thrones,

32:09

but I think in terms of my deep

32:11

abiding day-to-day when I'm not in front of

32:13

a TV or podcasting interest in Westeros, it's

32:15

casual. I don't read the histories. And

32:18

I think that's fair, but I do

32:21

think we're... I just don't think

32:23

we're running on vapor. Because there's a lot

32:25

there. I think, yeah, I don't think it's...

32:29

We're ever going to get back to Game of Thrones level with

32:31

this IP, but I do

32:33

think that there's plenty for them

32:35

to plunder there. I don't want

32:38

there to be... I don't ever want to

32:40

go back to a couple years ago when we were

32:43

getting all these Star Wars

32:45

shows and all these Marvel shows, and it was just sort of...

32:48

You didn't have time to savor anything. And

32:51

my view and my enjoyment of... I

32:54

don't think there should always be a Game of Thrones

32:56

show on. That would be good for Mal and

32:58

me and our business, but I don't

33:00

think that that's good for the storytelling.

33:02

I think we should get maybe, let's

33:04

say, Max two Thrones

33:07

shows a year. On Max. Right? On Max.

33:11

And with something like House of

33:13

the Dragon, that's only going to run for

33:15

four or five seasons. So... Is

33:17

that a promise? You know. Were you saying that for

33:19

me? I swear to you. I vow this to you.

33:24

But I... So they're not making any

33:26

of these shows with this is going to run for seven

33:28

or eight years. Which is also the

33:30

TV business now. To be fair. I mean, nothing

33:32

for very long anymore. So

33:35

what's your number? I

33:37

hate to do it too. It's nine. I want you

33:39

to do it. This is great. This is what I want. There

33:42

should be some positivity on this show today.

33:46

For once. We're back to business on Monday. Finally,

33:49

another one that's near and dear to your heart and

33:51

near and dear to one of my daughter's hearts is

33:53

Potter. Yeah. The...

33:56

There is a TV show that is kind

33:59

of happening. We think they seem

34:01

very confident that it's happening. But

34:03

they have not picked a showrunner yet. Yes.

34:06

I mean, I behind the scenes stuff like they

34:09

have been casting a net. They are looking for

34:11

people. It's they

34:14

have their auditioning people, but they haven't. They haven't

34:16

picked. And I and what's not clear to me,

34:18

maybe you have more insight into this than I

34:20

do, both in terms of just like what you've

34:22

heard reported or maybe even what the fandom may

34:24

want, which may not be what showrunner

34:26

Joanne Rowling wants. Are they

34:28

redoing the books or is that just what we thought?

34:31

There's no there's nothing else happening here.

34:35

No, well, here's what your pal

34:37

in my he's not my he's your pal.

34:39

Casey has said is that they're doing 10

34:41

seasons. So

34:43

that's more than there are books, but that's just because

34:46

some of the books are a real thing very wrong,

34:48

right? So, yeah. So during 10

34:50

seasons or 10 years, I think is

34:52

what they said. They're not incorporating

34:54

like Fantastic Beasts stuff. They're basically pretending.

34:56

Sorry, Eddie Redmayne. They're kind of pretending

34:58

that didn't happen at all, I think.

35:01

It's like Eddie Redmayne. Sorry. No offense. But I got

35:03

one best actor. I was thinking about that the other

35:05

day. He really did. He's probably

35:08

a lovely guy. That's wild. That's wild. Yeah,

35:11

there it's one of those wins where

35:13

you're like, how did that? How did we let that happen? OK,

35:15

so. So

35:18

and then and Casey has promised a

35:20

very faithful adaptation to the books. So

35:23

right. And that also tracks with my understanding of

35:25

behind the scene stuff over the years, where obviously

35:27

and people, everyone who has been in charge of

35:29

Warner Brothers when it was AT&T to Jason

35:34

Kolar to now Sazlav,

35:37

everyone has been asked, like, this is the

35:40

biggest IP jewel in your in your vault.

35:42

Why aren't you using it? And my understanding

35:44

is that many people have tried, but

35:46

that JK Rowling has

35:48

or at least made a made

35:51

pitches, made entries. In

35:53

various forms, but that she she's in control

35:55

of it and she will decide what is

35:57

done and what isn't done. And of course, she has very

35:59

strong opinion. about that and so this

36:01

is the show that we will get. Yeah

36:05

and she settled it, she made a deal with

36:07

them in last year about

36:10

what degree of control she gets over this TV show

36:12

in particular and I should say on the IP front

36:14

I mean you know we love

36:16

to talk about on-screen storytelling

36:18

in terms of films and television

36:20

mostly television is called The Watch

36:22

but Hogwarts Legacy sold 22 million

36:27

units this is a video game they're

36:29

building a new Wizarding World of Harry

36:31

Potter section at Universal

36:34

Orlando there's the Cursed Child I

36:36

guess it I mean I know that it was

36:38

a hit but post-dandemic I guess it had like a a

36:41

renaissance I don't know so the I've

36:45

just been asked recently if I thought

36:47

Potter as an IP was washed especially

36:49

with like a lot of what's going on

36:51

with Jo Rowling and the things that she

36:54

likes to say that I find awful

36:58

and I don't think it's washed I think and I

37:00

think especially when this TV show hits we're going to

37:02

see a huge re- re-blooming

37:04

of interest. It's just an interesting

37:06

and maybe ultimately brilliant and successful

37:09

management of a property because I

37:12

agree with you I mean as the as

37:15

the father of daughters but

37:17

as as as as Dadcore like

37:19

it is evergreen this is a

37:21

new classic of lived

37:24

life at this point in terms of it's just generational and

37:26

people love it and they fall in love with it and

37:28

then they love the stores and

37:30

the chocolates and all of this is controlled by

37:33

her and what's notable is that

37:35

there haven't been other voices in the room and

37:37

there haven't been spin-offs or

37:39

stories told from other perspectives which

37:41

is one of the hallmarks of

37:44

you know obviously these are messier older legacy idea

37:46

IPs but the other things that we're talking

37:48

about and maybe that does speak to the

37:51

importance that Warner sees in having George R.

37:53

Martin really be in the room now for

37:55

everything that they do and using his text

37:57

because it's it's not to your point like it's

37:59

not sexy Harry Potter

38:01

should never be sexy. I want to be clear about

38:03

that. But it's not necessarily sexy to talk about this

38:05

as like the hot thing, but it doesn't matter because

38:08

the people who care are being respawned

38:10

every generation and they're buying it all over again

38:12

and reading the books all over again. So it

38:14

may have fallen out of like, you know,

38:16

what's the dark and gritty version of adult

38:18

Harold Potter? We're not doing that,

38:20

but maybe we don't need to. The magicians.

38:23

What I'm hearing from you is that you

38:25

want me to send you some like Harry Potter

38:27

fan fiction so that you can enjoy the

38:30

dark, gritty, sexy side of Harry Potter. I

38:32

would like more. I mean, I

38:34

have evolved. I've been working out some stuff

38:36

on my own, so I thought maybe we

38:38

could do a trade. Let me know if you

38:41

need a beta reader. I'm happy to read your content. I

38:43

really appreciate that. So, okay, so where are you with Potter?

38:45

What's your number? Then we can move on. I

38:49

mean, it's stuff because we just don't know in

38:51

many details about the show,

38:53

but 878. Because

38:56

I also think 78 means like you're confident in

38:58

the current state of the project.

39:00

The theoretical. Yes, in a sense, like

39:03

if they were, they don't need to be

39:05

making a lot of stuff to have a high number. Maybe it's

39:07

an 8 or 9 because there's only one thing. The

39:10

last thing I want to say about this before we

39:12

move on is that despite the fact that like

39:16

Marvel's going to have a quiet year, DC is

39:18

going to have a quiet year, Sony's

39:20

going to have a quiet year, all this sort of stuff on the

39:22

superhero front. The

39:25

sheer tonnage of sequels and spin-offs

39:28

and reboots and etc. at the

39:30

cinema, the multiplex, is

39:33

staggering. So we've got Doom part two is coming.

39:35

There's another Godzilla Kong movie somehow.

39:38

Furiosa, Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes, Inside

39:40

Out 2, Desiculme 4, Twisters, which

39:42

I'm actually very excited for. Deadpool

39:45

3, Alien Romulus, Beetlejuice Beetlejuice. We

39:47

just found out today that it's called

39:50

Beetlejuice Beetlejuice Not Beetlejuice 2. That's good.

39:52

Gladiator 2, Wicked Part

39:55

1, Mufasa, Cole and the Lion King,

39:57

somehow another Karate Kid. That's

40:00

what's happening at the bottom. This Madame Weberasure will

40:02

not stand. That's the only movie that I'm sure

40:04

you're gonna have. And Craven the Hunter, you're right.

40:07

I'm so sorry. Thank you. Yes, yes. This

40:10

episode of The Watch is brought to you by Mint Mobile.

40:12

If saving money was on your 2024 resolution list, I

40:15

have a 100% guaranteed way to

40:18

make sure you follow through. Ready? Just

40:20

switch to Mint Mobile. For a limited time, wireless

40:22

plans from Mint Mobile are

40:25

$15 a month when you purchase a three month plan. That's

40:27

unlimited talk, text, and data for $15 a month.

40:31

To get this new customer offer,

40:33

go to mintmobile.com/watch. That's mintmobile.com/watch. Additional

40:35

taxes, fees, and restrictions apply. See

40:38

Mint Mobile for details. This episode

40:40

is brought to you by Read,

40:42

Write, Own, Building the Next Era

40:45

of the Internet. A new book

40:47

from entrepreneur and startup investor, Chris

40:49

Dixon. If you're listening to this

40:51

podcast, you know what it's like to be part of

40:53

a community of fans. You value the people who play,

40:56

perform, and create for everyone. But

40:58

what if there are more ways to support them, more

41:00

ways to be a fan? And what if you had

41:02

even more ways to connect with the teams, artists, and

41:04

other creators that you love? Even

41:06

though creators make the internet valuable. How much

41:09

value do they get

41:11

for their work? Well, that's mostly

41:13

up to a few big tech companies.

41:15

Shouldn't creators get more from the platforms

41:17

they make successful? More value,

41:19

but also more say, more

41:22

control, more ownership? Read,

41:24

Write, Own explores an alternative future for

41:27

the internet, one that reclaims control for

41:29

creators, fans, listeners, and gamers, to

41:32

people who not only use the internet, but make

41:34

it useful. Read, Write, Own

41:36

imagines an internet built by

41:38

us for us. So

41:41

order your copy of the book today

41:43

or learn more at readwriteown.com. Okay,

41:47

so that is the IP portion of

41:49

our conversation. Let's talk about some, OP?

41:52

That was a surf brand, Ocean Pacific, but I'm

41:54

trying it out. Original property? Can we do that?

41:57

Although not related to adaptation. I wanted to talk

41:59

to you about. the new Amazon Prime

42:01

series, Expats, which premiered last week.

42:04

It is not original, I guess, in the sense that it

42:06

is based on a 2016 novel, The Expatriates, by Janice Y.

42:08

K. Lee. But this was notable,

42:11

the series is notable, because it is created by,

42:13

directed by Lulu Wong, who made

42:15

a fantastic movie called The Farewell. And

42:19

in a way, this feels like a

42:21

nice rejoinder to the funeral Chris and

42:23

I had last week for Autori

42:27

television, because this is a not

42:29

cheap adaptation of a book spearheaded

42:32

by a very, very talented on the

42:34

rise filmmaker starring Nicole Kidman, shot entirely

42:37

on location in Hong Kong. The

42:39

first two episodes premiered last week out of six.

42:42

What do you think? Both as a viewer,

42:45

but then I'm also curious to have a conversation about what

42:48

is the show even doing in the larger TV

42:50

landscape? I was surprised, like,

42:52

you know, when you and I were batting around sort

42:54

of what we might talk about, I was

42:58

surprised at what

43:00

a murmur this show debuted just

43:03

like very quietly. And

43:05

Nicole Kidman led a show

43:08

by a brilliant filmmaker like that's,

43:11

but then again, watching the

43:14

first two episodes, I was like, Oh, no,

43:16

I have seen Nicole Kidman do this many

43:18

times now on prestige television, this character.

43:21

So perhaps everyone

43:24

feels like they've had their fill. But a

43:26

reason I think it's really interesting to talk about and I

43:29

liked the second episode much more than I liked the first

43:31

episode, I should say. So like first episode, I was pretty

43:33

mid on and second episode, I was like, okay, I would

43:36

continue watching. So just for people to

43:38

bring people up to speed. It is a show

43:40

set in 2014 in Hong Kong and backdrop of

43:42

the Umbrella Movement protests. Nicole Kidman

43:45

plays a expatriate woman living with her

43:47

husband and family in Hong Kong. They

43:49

are very wealthy business people, they're driven

43:51

places, they have housekeepers. There

43:55

is an incident that is spelled out over the first

43:57

two episodes affecting one of her children that

43:59

all So it involves her

44:01

close friend who lives in her building, who's

44:04

played by Sarayu Blue. It's an actor I've liked

44:06

a lot in other things. And

44:08

then a young actor named Ji Young

44:11

You, who plays younger Korean-American woman who's

44:13

also living in Hong Kong. They all

44:15

become embroiled in something, but it is

44:17

a deeply, like, it's

44:19

a very, very serious, it is not a

44:21

very light show about such a, the

44:24

loss in many ways of a child. It

44:26

is not an easy watch for that reason. And

44:30

yeah, so I'm

44:32

with you about... Yeah,

44:35

it's interesting. I think the second

44:37

episode, in the first episode were

44:39

post-incident and the second episode were pre-incident.

44:41

And so there is room for a bit more

44:43

lightness, I think. And I

44:45

don't know that that is going to be something we'll

44:48

enjoy for the rest of the season.

44:50

But the second thing is that, I think it's

44:52

episode five, is a

44:55

feature length episode

44:57

that they premiered at TIFF. So

45:01

because it's

45:03

a sort of standalone-ish episode

45:05

about the

45:07

Filipina live-in domestic help that they

45:10

have. And so it's sort of like

45:12

a side story. And so when Lulu Wong debuted at

45:14

TIFF, she was like, I know it's weird to start

45:16

with episode five out of a six-episode season, but it

45:19

makes sense. And it's feature length, so she could

45:21

sort of debut it as a film-ish type project.

45:24

But what I think is really interesting about this

45:26

show is a question I

45:28

have all the time when I think about brilliant

45:30

storytellers, and I think she is

45:32

definitely a brilliant storyteller, is what's

45:35

the best platform, what's the

45:38

best way for you to get your

45:40

story out? Like it's the... She

45:42

could have easily done another film. That would have been the

45:44

obvious next to her for her. She decided she wanted

45:46

to do television. Okay. In

45:49

2022, she signed the first deal

45:51

with Amazon television. Amazon,

45:53

by all reporting, is

45:56

a very chaotic place to

45:58

get your projects made. And

46:00

in the deadline report of her first look deal

46:03

that she made in 2022, they list a bunch

46:07

of projects, none of which

46:09

are this, and none of which seem like

46:11

they'll probably ever come to fruition. And

46:13

I've heard that again and again and again from people who

46:15

sign overall deals with Amazon, is

46:18

that they get pitch after pitch after pitch sort

46:20

of rejected and they wind up making something and

46:22

it isn't really anything that they want to make

46:24

in the first place. And it has to do

46:26

with a lot of reasons for that. But one

46:29

of the reasons that I've come to understand is

46:31

that Amazon TV ultimately, it has its own people

46:33

who work there, obviously in Jen Salke is running

46:35

it and they've been making TV and movies for

46:37

a while, but decision making at Amazon is still

46:39

done in a very.com global quadrant way

46:41

where a lot of different teams take ownership

46:44

over a lot of different decisions. So

46:46

you have to please a lot of different rooms full

46:48

of people for every yes that you hope to get

46:50

along the way, which kills a lot of projects and

46:53

kills a lot of artistic hope. I've

46:55

heard a lot of stories about that

46:58

very thing in terms of rings of power, but I

47:00

will say

47:03

that on

47:05

the one hand, that's true. On the other hand, Mr. and

47:07

Mrs. Smith is getting like rave reviews. So

47:10

like Amazon is certainly capable of putting out

47:12

absolute. Amazon contains multiple views. Yeah,

47:14

absolutely. And we will talk about Mr. and Mrs. Smith on this

47:16

podcast next week. But this

47:18

is just such a fascinating move from

47:21

a filmmaker who comes

47:23

out with an A24 of four film

47:25

wins an indie spirit award. And then

47:27

this is what she does with

47:30

that. It's not a blank check, but it

47:32

is certainly, you know, there's an opportunity to

47:34

fill in some numbers here. And

47:38

I don't know, what do you think about something

47:40

I like to ask showrunners and you are a

47:42

showrunner. So the thing is, showrunners is like, where

47:44

do you think the best place to debut? What's

47:47

the golden ticket for, Oh, I got a

47:49

show on this platform. And

47:53

I don't know. Like, where should

47:55

the show be if it was on a different network

47:57

or service? Yeah. What's the best place

47:59

to go? place because I think with

48:01

Amazon with Prime things get

48:03

lost unless they really pop they get

48:06

really easily lost. I totally agree with you I

48:08

think big picture this is a tough look for it

48:10

because Amazon is one of those companies that can fund

48:12

your dream project but can also shrug and lose your

48:14

dream project and it's easy to get lost so

48:17

I don't know the answer for

48:20

that because I think that the answer would

48:22

change what the product itself is. In

48:25

a way this is that my reaction to

48:27

the show is not dissimilar to some of

48:29

my reaction to the curse last week which

48:31

is I love audacious filmmaking and I love

48:34

people being given the chance to explore and

48:36

chase after their muses to where to their

48:38

hearts content with longer run times with bigger

48:40

casts potentially with bigger budgets even than they're

48:43

than they're used to. That said there's something

48:46

that is fundamentally and this is a loaded word

48:48

that I wish I could avoid disrespectful to the

48:50

medium of television when that happens and

48:52

so what I like about the show is I

48:54

like Lu Lu Wang trying stuff out

48:57

and there are things that only a filmmaker could

48:59

do here for example the way it starts with

49:01

this grid of people talking about being the person

49:03

not who was a victim of an accident but

49:05

who caused an accident what happens to them there

49:07

are these lovely silent shots of Hong

49:09

Kong there's a there's something that you feel like

49:11

was important to her and probably was important to

49:14

no one else in the pilot where Soraya Blue

49:16

and Nicole Kidman danced to Blondie in a noodle

49:18

shop after midnight I'm like yes I give me

49:20

that I want a filmmaker who and again I've

49:22

only seen two episodes but what I understand is

49:25

what you alluded to that builds to a

49:27

larger tapestry of stories in

49:29

an experimental way like that's wonderful I

49:32

love that and if that alone might keep me sticking with

49:34

the show but all the

49:36

way back to your question Nicole Kidman

49:38

as a grieving rich lady abroad

49:40

is an HBO show and it's

49:42

an HBO show told with a

49:44

different level of melodramatic rigor

49:46

and I mean that is a good thing

49:49

then this show is interested in doing so

49:51

what you get instead is an interesting

49:53

melange of styles and ideas and

49:56

aesthetics that don't so far equal

49:58

a successful for

50:00

me. There are a lot of

50:02

different pieces here that are noteworthy and I don't

50:04

want to disparage it,

50:06

but it's not fully working for me.

50:10

Not the correct use so far of

50:12

Jack Houston, I will say. If you

50:14

look at the Nicole Kidminton TV

50:16

project trajectory, you've got of course Big

50:18

Little Lies, The Undoing, these

50:20

are HBO shows of

50:23

sad, rich, wine mom. And then

50:25

you've got... Nine Perfect

50:27

Strangers. Nine Perfect Strangers, it was called,

50:29

on Hulu, which

50:32

doesn't pop at all. They're

50:34

making a second. They popped for them. Okay,

50:38

nine... Ten. Eighteen

50:41

Perfect Strangers. No, I don't know. They were making a sequel series. It did big

50:43

numbers for them. It did it,

50:45

okay. Well then, screw my point,

50:47

if they were making a sequel series that... I

50:49

don't know. I just... I want

50:51

everything to flourish and I want everything to be right where

50:53

it needs to be. I think there is just a difference

50:55

between... I think there was this interesting

50:58

shift where everyone ran

51:00

to Netflix because what Netflix was

51:02

promising was tons of money with

51:04

little oversight, right? And

51:07

then I think there's... The worm has turned on that

51:09

and then it's back to HBO. HBO Sunday

51:12

night is the brass ring. And

51:16

I don't know, it's just something I like to think about in

51:18

terms of if you had a

51:22

big win and you wanted

51:24

to tell a TV story, where

51:26

would you want to go? And I guess to your point,

51:29

it depends on what TV story you want to tell.

51:31

But I mean, in terms of developing, if you

51:33

want to develop something with

51:35

people, I think the answer from everyone in this industry

51:37

is the same. It's HBO and FX. They're the

51:40

people that has the most entrenched teams that

51:42

have been there long enough. And there's a different level

51:44

of fear in all these offices than there used to

51:47

be. But those teams have been there for a long

51:49

time and they have a track record and they know

51:51

how to work with people of different levels in their

51:53

careers and they know how to execute and give the

51:55

notes and then not give the notes when necessary. The

51:57

other places aren't as established. Now, that said, they're brilliant

51:59

executives and... at all these companies doing their best and

52:02

different versions of what success might mean and might,

52:04

you know, changes from room to room. But

52:07

yeah, I think, but that said, if

52:09

you want people to see your show, you wanna be on Netflix.

52:11

There's only one answer. That's the only place

52:13

anyone's gonna see anything, it seems like, increasingly. The

52:16

Nicole Kidman thing I do wanna say is, I

52:20

mean, this is of great respect to one of the most

52:22

esteemed and rewarded actresses of our time, kinda

52:24

over it. It's just

52:26

because it is a different

52:28

haircut, which I appreciate, but it is a tone we

52:33

have seen before. And the other

52:35

thing about it that I think was not really

52:37

taken into consideration by the filmmakers is

52:39

that she is a

52:41

star, whether you think in the

52:43

sense of like a great actor or just a

52:46

famous person, whatever. She is a charismatic, gravity-altering

52:48

star. And when you put

52:51

her into a production where everyone else around her

52:53

is either up and coming or TV, and

52:57

I don't mean that disparagingly because you and I

52:59

love TV, but they all

53:02

look small. And particularly in

53:04

the case of Sarai Blue, who is I

53:06

think a full 12 inches shorter than Nicole

53:08

Kidman, the framing is odd.

53:10

But like there's an actor named Brian T

53:12

who plays Nicole Kidman's husband, and he may

53:15

well be a very good actor. I haven't

53:17

seen enough of him to know. I also

53:19

didn't watch Chicago Med. When

53:21

you put an actor from Chicago Med. You're not

53:23

in on the Chicago show? It's

53:26

just not the doctor stuff. I wanna see people. I

53:28

wanna see fires put out, but

53:31

I don't wanna see victims of the fire cared for.

53:34

That's uninteresting. I

53:36

care about buildings, not people. My point is,

53:38

and again, I feel bad singling out any

53:41

actor because this would be true of any

53:43

actor except maybe a movie star or Hugh

53:45

Grant, in the undoing. I was gonna say,

53:47

you need a Hugh Grant opposite her. Nicole

53:49

Kidman's spouse in this is gonna seem

53:52

small and change the

53:54

gravity of the screen. So I

53:56

struggled with that. I couldn't tell if

53:58

it was budgetary. That the

54:01

cast is Nicole Kidman and a bunch of other

54:03

good to decent people or if it is

54:06

very director shit We're directors Like only

54:09

I see the capabilities of these actors that have

54:11

not been given the chances before and I will

54:13

give them everything Which is a beautiful thing about

54:15

directors, but it doesn't always work and I

54:17

don't mean to be I don't want

54:19

this to come out It's like I'm talking

54:22

shit about actors on the show. It's

54:24

just that Nicole Kidman It's just like it's

54:26

like dropping a zoo animal into a pet store. It's just

54:28

different There's

54:31

also I think that's a great

54:33

point. There's also I don't know if you notice this

54:35

a lot of really strange ADR Yes,

54:37

um very much. It's absolutely

54:39

bizarre I don't Start some very weird ADR where the

54:42

camera and you are for people who don't know is

54:44

when you add dialogue to a scene Usually on the

54:46

back of an actor to help explain something because you

54:48

didn't either you didn't pick it up in production Or

54:51

you needed you realized in posting you did more

54:53

but like the first time we see Nicole Kidman

54:55

She's talking to a party planner And

54:58

the cameras circling Nicole Kidman's back and it's

55:00

pretty clear that almost everything she's saying is

55:02

ADR that it is not in the room

55:04

And so that it gives us very stilted Like

55:08

that opening scene. I was like is

55:10

Nicole Kidman not a good actor in

55:12

this scene and that's what An

55:15

overuse of ADR. I mean ADR here and

55:17

there you won't notice but if it's constant

55:19

then you will and She

55:22

does some stuff later that I think is absolutely phenomenal. She's

55:24

Nicole Kidman But to your point I feel

55:26

like we've seen this it's from it's just

55:28

surprising because I think that we are both

55:30

here for TV shows like

55:32

I'm and we're here for a Lulu

55:35

Wong projects and this feels like an Potentially

55:38

odd collision of the two but again what

55:41

you said the fifth episode premiered at a film festival

55:43

So maybe it's worth sticking with before we

55:45

go. I didn't want to cross the

55:47

true detective streams I

55:49

love that like Chris was like we should do a team

55:51

up and you're like, yes Yeah

55:56

Yeah, so you guys are recapping it also

55:58

on the prestige TV feed We

56:00

are heading into the fourth episode to hear at

56:02

the halfway point in a previous podcast

56:04

that we recorded today that we won't step on

56:06

too much You

56:09

made a really good point about how in

56:11

the velocity of a television show The midway

56:13

point is when the ascension stops and you

56:15

kind of are plateauing and all of the

56:18

theories and excitement in front of the beginning

56:20

Begin to descend into the atmospheric whatever

56:23

of reality of what the show is going

56:25

to be. So we're at that point specifically

56:29

Oscar I'll just say we did Twin Peaks. We should say it

56:32

we sure did. We did it It's my favorite show. It'll be

56:34

on sick landing in a couple weeks. I Wanted

56:37

to talk to you about this moment

56:39

of true detectives night country through the

56:41

lens of The

56:44

Twin Peaks enos of it whether that's

56:46

worth facing whether that's valid whether it's

56:48

giving you like positive echoes or

56:50

not because as Chris and I've been saying and I'm sure you

56:52

and Rob been saying to like The

56:54

supernatural element of the season is much more

56:56

so far much more literal and pronounced than

56:59

in previous seasons and Doing more

57:01

of the lifting and I'm on the fence about how I

57:03

feel about that Totally.

57:05

I agree with you. I think especially

57:08

in season one true detective, but you know,

57:10

I have some fond memories of ghosts

57:13

around the margin of season three a true

57:15

detective and that idea of Plausible

57:19

deniability is it supernatural or is it just

57:21

in the mind of the person and then

57:23

here in true detective? colonic

57:26

country we have characters saying

57:28

we're at the edge of the world

57:30

where the you know detective colon is

57:32

a Chicago meds

57:35

just to be clear which which you won't watch

57:37

because it's about healthcare Like

57:40

GI like gastropodocus. No, thank you. Go on fair

57:43

enough. But but corpse equals you're all

57:45

in. Um We're at the

57:47

edge of something right the edge of the world and the

57:49

barriers are thin and that's why you see ghosts it's

57:52

um, I Don't know

57:54

and and and is the Lopez

57:56

who is incredibly talented is a horror

58:01

That's her preferred genre. So we're

58:03

getting not just supernatural, but like

58:05

in episode three, object

58:08

terror, horror, creepiness. Um,

58:11

I'm not, I'm not like Lund waking

58:13

up to say that like your

58:15

dead mom says hi. I mean, it's a little bit

58:17

jaleen, like that shit. Yeah, absolutely. And

58:20

so, um, I don't

58:22

know that I love

58:24

making answering the question because I think the beauty

58:26

of the first three seasons was

58:29

that question. But with Twin Peaks,

58:31

it's funny. I keep calling things

58:33

peakcy is something that I will say, but I should probably

58:35

to sound smarter, say lynching, but

58:37

I won't. But peakiness of this

58:40

season of True Detective feels

58:42

very intentional and

58:44

goes back to a question that we asked

58:47

on that season landing episode that we just discussed,

58:49

which is the idea of evil. When

58:52

you talk about, you know, when Chris is talking to

58:54

you on the watch about, Hey, Andy,

58:56

I know you don't remember this. This

58:58

is what is connected tissue. Season one

59:01

of the detective, the spiral

59:03

thing, that is stuff I don't really

59:05

care about. And I don't really care

59:07

for, um, I don't

59:09

need Matthew McConaughey to show up. I don't need any of

59:11

that stuff. The spiral stuff

59:13

is interesting to me because

59:16

that is a connective iconography,

59:18

similar to the connective iconography that

59:20

we get throughout Twin Peaks

59:22

properties that speaks to. An

59:26

elemental evil that exists in the world versus

59:31

people are inherently evil

59:33

or bad. And this is

59:36

the question I think is always interesting. Yellow

59:38

jackets asked this question too is like when

59:41

evil happens, is it coming from our humanity

59:43

or is it coming from something external to

59:46

a supernatural that is infecting us? And

59:49

that's an, I don't know, what do you, what do you think

59:51

about that question or how it's handling that? I

59:53

think you've, I think you've very well identified

59:55

maybe the similarity between Twin Peaks and

59:58

Night Country. And it's

1:00:00

one that I'm open to because I think as

1:00:02

long as it preserves humanity's culpability,

1:00:05

because I think what's interesting to me about

1:00:08

the internal external idea is if both can

1:00:10

be true. You

1:00:13

don't need to believe that

1:00:15

there's a hellmouth underneath Ennis

1:00:17

to understand why atmospherically, contextually,

1:00:19

people might do bad shit

1:00:21

there. People do bad shit

1:00:23

anywhere. But then, to your point, it's real dark.

1:00:25

A lot of the time, the people who are

1:00:27

on the margins are often living on the margins

1:00:30

for reasons. They may be choosing

1:00:32

to exclude themselves from society. I like

1:00:34

the idea of the internal

1:00:36

forces that make us, that

1:00:39

fuel the choices that we make as

1:00:41

adult humans. You can't

1:00:43

really show that artistically unless you

1:00:45

externalize it and create a force

1:00:47

or a demon or a spiral

1:00:50

drawing. I love that. I mean,

1:00:52

that's the best storytelling. Where

1:00:54

you lose me is when we are

1:00:56

all otherwise good

1:00:58

vessels or victims to

1:01:00

a supernatural force, which is

1:01:02

more important. And

1:01:05

it's a delicate balancing act, but I'm

1:01:07

interested in the human story first and

1:01:09

the rest second. And

1:01:11

weirdly, this may be the only time

1:01:14

I've ever been aligned with Nick

1:01:16

Pizzolato in anything. I kind

1:01:18

of think he thinks that too, which is why the...

1:01:22

Again, this might be just my hobby horse as

1:01:24

someone who has not revisited the series keeps riding.

1:01:27

But my sense was the supernatural

1:01:29

stuff was cool and interesting and atmospheric and evocative.

1:01:31

And Carrie Fukunaga ran with a lot of it,

1:01:33

but it was window dressing to the story that

1:01:35

he wanted to tell. And it's

1:01:37

just... It's particularly...

1:01:40

It's compelling to me, but not necessarily... I

1:01:43

don't know if it's going to be good or bad

1:01:45

that Isolaope seems much more motivated by the window dressing

1:01:47

at this moment, at least in Pizzolato's conception of it.

1:01:50

It's like an inverse. Well,

1:01:52

I think yes. And she has said that. She said

1:01:54

that from the start, that she's telling an inverted story

1:01:56

to season

1:02:00

one is incredibly male in this like

1:02:02

warm, swampy environment, blah, blah, blah. And

1:02:04

she's like, let's make it cold. Let's

1:02:06

make it dark. And let's make it

1:02:08

very female focused. And so in that

1:02:10

sense, the inversion

1:02:13

of the triangle on

1:02:16

the supernatural front could make sense. What

1:02:18

I suspect is true, and I

1:02:20

could be wrong, what I suspect is true is

1:02:23

something that she's been very clear about, which is

1:02:25

that she had already written a country when HBO

1:02:27

said, we want to make true detective. So the

1:02:29

circle back to the IP conversation that started this

1:02:31

episode, this is Cloverfield

1:02:34

esque slapping an IP

1:02:36

two words in front of a

1:02:40

project that was already conceived. So like the

1:02:42

rest cold connection or the tunnel or the

1:02:44

spiral, like all that stuff is stuff she

1:02:46

has injected to make it

1:02:48

fit with a larger true detective

1:02:51

universe. But the

1:02:53

horror, that's East elopecs. So

1:02:55

like, you know, I suspect

1:02:57

any like, what

1:02:59

makes a true detective story a true detective

1:03:02

story is a question everyone covering the show

1:03:04

has been asking themselves. Like when you hand a universe

1:03:07

over to a different creator, okay,

1:03:09

so what makes this a true detective story? And

1:03:11

I suspect we're going to be on the back foot

1:03:13

on this because actually, this is a night country story

1:03:15

with a true detective in the air. And I think

1:03:18

we'll be back foot on the story until

1:03:20

there are more. You know, I

1:03:22

continue to think, and I said this even

1:03:24

when I wasn't loving the Pizzolato iterations, that

1:03:26

this is uniquely ripe for allowing

1:03:29

other people to drive. You

1:03:31

know, I think determining that question

1:03:33

is open enough, but the specifics

1:03:35

of it are set enough to

1:03:38

allow it to be successful through multiple

1:03:40

showrunners and multiple visions. And I think

1:03:42

what would probably serve this show best

1:03:44

going forward would be that

1:03:46

the next person, if this passes on, you

1:03:49

know, to another filmmaker, someone

1:03:51

with a completely different interest, someone who's

1:03:53

also interested in detective stories, but what

1:03:55

they bring to it might be a different

1:03:58

genre of in terms

1:04:00

of a secondary passion. Yeah, and so

1:04:02

what it might just be is what

1:04:04

the True Detective brand is, is at least

1:04:08

one, if not two movie stars or

1:04:10

big actors that you

1:04:12

are excited to see are

1:04:14

detectives somewhere, distinctive, investigating

1:04:17

something kind of horrific. There have been

1:04:19

worse premises for anthology series, and

1:04:23

then if you spackle on a couple of references to

1:04:25

Tuttle for fun for the fans, the

1:04:28

question is, one thing that I'm interested

1:04:30

in also, and this is the meta narrative on top

1:04:32

of watching the show, is

1:04:36

Chris had Issa on and they had a wonderful

1:04:38

conversation, and she seems great. Great, yeah. She's

1:04:41

also extremely online, which worries me.

1:04:44

I almost brought this up when we were talking about Twin Peaks earlier

1:04:46

and people being in conversation, because that was one of my

1:04:48

favorite, one of my favorite Andy Greenwald

1:04:50

throwaways of all time, is Chris

1:04:53

saying something about how Issa responded to something, and

1:04:55

you just muttered, she's online too much. Yes,

1:04:57

I think this deeply, I wanted to talk to

1:04:59

you about this. Because both

1:05:02

in the spirit of David Lynch doesn't say anything, and

1:05:05

it's better. But I also, people,

1:05:08

this is weird, we're talking, like True Detective, we're

1:05:10

telling stories in different timelines. When you

1:05:13

hear Truth, Stick the Landing, Twin Peaks, I am

1:05:15

thinking of Issa Lopez when I'm talking about something

1:05:17

similar, which is to say, I almost brought it

1:05:19

up. She seems like such

1:05:21

a genuine, good faith, creative person who

1:05:23

is enjoying experiencing the show with fans.

1:05:26

She wanted to make something popular. That's

1:05:28

not a sin. Not

1:05:30

even popular, but like widescreen. But

1:05:33

she's also out there parrying and

1:05:35

in the trenches. And my experience as

1:05:38

a human who's been online is that you just get

1:05:40

muddied no matter how good your intentions are. And

1:05:42

my read of it

1:05:45

through three episodes is that

1:05:47

Fiona Shaw character had a husband and

1:05:49

the ghost, that was all in her

1:05:51

Night Country story. She was like, oh,

1:05:53

I'll give him a last name. And

1:05:56

he thought that was fun. And it is fun, and

1:05:58

it's a nice little thing. it's a bit of

1:06:00

connective tissue and retconning that works for

1:06:03

the project, which is not just night country, it's

1:06:05

true detective night country. But by

1:06:07

doing that and sort of smiling about it,

1:06:10

there are those toxic fan bros who

1:06:13

are like, you're getting your night country and

1:06:15

my true detective and think, or even not

1:06:17

the toxic part, so

1:06:19

that the genuine Redditor part that's just

1:06:21

like, ah, I'm going to unpack this

1:06:25

and reveal the connection between these shows that didn't

1:06:27

have a connection other than Esa Lopez being like,

1:06:29

cool. I

1:06:31

think that that's just a good lesson to learn

1:06:33

as we head into the back three of the

1:06:35

season is just sort of these

1:06:37

connections are probably just a gloss on

1:06:40

top of an existence story and you shouldn't hold

1:06:43

it, take it too seriously. But,

1:06:45

but to your point, on the one hand, I agree with

1:06:47

you, you and I both know

1:06:49

that the best way to win a Twitter argument

1:06:51

is to not even start one. Yes. And

1:06:54

just walk away or any

1:06:56

social media argument. Yes. But,

1:07:00

um, the

1:07:02

thing about the thing I would say

1:07:04

in Esa's defense about that is that

1:07:06

there were people who are not giving the show

1:07:09

a chance from the jump. That's true.

1:07:11

Just because it's led by two women, honestly. Um,

1:07:15

not hashtag, not all fans,

1:07:17

but certainly some. I've certainly seen

1:07:19

it. So you know, she,

1:07:21

her attitude might be like, well, listen, if

1:07:24

they're going to be that way anyway, I might as

1:07:26

well sort of have the fun that I can have.

1:07:30

I think that's fair. Have you, do you watch ahead? Are

1:07:32

you ahead of the audience with the

1:07:34

True Detective Night Country? No, I'm saying

1:07:37

pure and clean so that I can

1:07:39

theorize. Okay. I am the same way. So

1:07:42

I won't ask you for anything else other than to say we should,

1:07:44

we should unite streams at the end of

1:07:46

the season, since we have a bunch of different takes

1:07:48

on a show that I think we're all enjoying, but

1:07:50

I think we're all enjoying different temperatures and speeds. Yes,

1:07:53

I agree. And to your point

1:07:55

earlier about Nicole

1:07:57

Kidman feeling like she sticks out.

1:08:00

of the cast. J.

1:08:02

Foster really feels to me like she folds in.

1:08:04

Like she's folded in. I totally agree, but also

1:08:07

that's why John Hawks is in that part. That's

1:08:09

why Christopher Eccleston is in that part. Yeah,

1:08:12

but you and I know who John Hawks and

1:08:14

Christopher Eccleston are, but they're not like major. Oh,

1:08:16

I don't mean because the audience is like, they're

1:08:18

not worthy of her. I just mean that they

1:08:21

are such veteran established talented performers. So good. But

1:08:23

I think what you're also saying, and I don't

1:08:26

want to bury it, is that she's a different

1:08:28

kind of performer playing a different type of role

1:08:30

than Nicole Kidman. We're not choosing sides, whatever. They

1:08:32

all have the things. But Jodie Foster does seem

1:08:34

to be, maybe this comes from being a

1:08:36

director or whatever also, but she seems to be throwing

1:08:39

herself into the ensemble in a way

1:08:41

where it's also the way it's written because Nicole Kidman

1:08:43

is supposed to be floating above everything in her brief

1:08:46

cloud with her. She

1:08:49

does a lot of Pilates, can tell by her back. She

1:08:51

scrubbed the floor. I admired that. Yeah. And

1:08:54

there's a bath scene and a lot of backless dresses. She's like,

1:08:56

I didn't work this hard. Exactly. To not

1:08:58

show you what I got. Yeah. So just

1:09:00

some housekeeping before we let you go, Joe, people

1:09:02

can listen to you regularly on Ringersverse on House

1:09:04

of R prestige television podcast.

1:09:07

Am I forgetting anything? Childlike

1:09:09

content is the other one. Oh, nice. Yes.

1:09:13

And also your book MCU is out. And just

1:09:15

some housekeeping for the watch. Chris is

1:09:17

swanning about the country for his other podcast,

1:09:19

whatever. Because of that,

1:09:22

we will not have a new episode of

1:09:24

the watch on Sunday night this week. Chris

1:09:26

and I will be recording in our normal

1:09:28

slot on Monday. It'll go up Monday. We'll

1:09:30

be talking True Detective. We'll be talking Monsieur

1:09:32

Spade. We've got to get to Masters

1:09:34

of the Air at some point. Mr. and Mrs. Smith. It's

1:09:36

too much TV for me. It's

1:09:38

a lot, but I love how you guys are all

1:09:40

in on Monsieur Spade. I mean, how could we not?

1:09:43

The most odd brand, the watch thing. Very

1:09:45

watchcore. That's the only one I really want to be covering.

1:09:47

I mean, I think that's not a surprise to drop at

1:09:49

the end of this podcast. But well, you

1:09:51

love the croupier. You love Clive Owen. So here we

1:09:53

are. You've been on this podcast twice. Friend

1:09:56

of the Pod. Come on. It

1:09:58

is such a pleasure to podcast with you. today

1:10:00

but twice you will be on not one but

1:10:02

two episodes of Stick the Landing in the next

1:10:04

few weeks. Joanna Robinson you're the best thank you

1:10:06

so much. Thank you. And

1:10:08

thank you Kaya McMullen for producing all of

1:10:10

it. Truly a legendary performance

1:10:12

by you.