0:01

Hey, over 25 years ago, on

0:04

September 29th, 1998, we watched a brainy girl with

0:06

curly hair

0:09

drop everything to follow a guy she

0:11

only kind of knew to college. My

0:14

name is Amanda Forman, though maybe you

0:16

know me better as Megan Rotunde, the

0:19

roommate with the mysterious box. I'm

0:21

teaming up with my Felicity husband, Greg

0:24

Grundberg and the ringers Juliette Litman to

0:26

revisit our favorite moments from the show

0:28

and talk to the people who helped

0:30

shape it. The rewatch begins

0:32

on March 13th. Listen now

0:35

to Dear Felicity on Spotify or

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wherever you get your podcasts. Who

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All you have to do is set it up. Stand

1:26

up and walk now. Hello

1:54

And welcome to the Watch. My name

1:56

is Chris Rye and I am an

1:58

editor at theringer.com. Damien

2:00

Studio I thought always

2:03

disasters. Oh.

2:08

I almost had Happy Monday. Why would

2:10

you do that? I don't know. I'm

2:12

excited. It's Thursday and eat and today

2:14

it's the Money Show Obama bickering If

2:16

so much to talk about including Shogun,

2:18

including the season premiere of Top Chef,

2:20

including the accolade trailer, the House of

2:22

the Dragon trailer. A. Little

2:24

bit of three body problem talks from

2:26

two guys who completely understand physics. And.

2:29

And frankly, we been waiting for this maybe even

2:31

maximum ninety seven taco. A middle primer on that.

2:33

I want to say it's great to see you.

2:36

It's great to see Tire. Could. Be

2:38

the kids! Last episode of The Watch. Oh

2:40

wow, Point of Boeing tonight. I

2:42

forgot about that toss. you're flying

2:45

in the direction of their their

2:47

pursuit. Here I am, there's some

2:49

issues with the path I'm taking

2:51

tonight. Yeah, it might lead into

2:53

oblivion. deep space. I

2:56

mean, I don't know, guys, are you?

2:58

It's just really. honestly. If. You're

3:00

like there's a one in a hundred

3:02

chance. That and or blows off the

3:04

zynga. What? You get to fly from

3:06

Burbank? And. Obesity thousand. six

3:08

hundred times out of one hundred will

3:10

use it. I don't have to settle

3:13

six assists. it's worth it. Sweet gamble

3:15

every day. I know what does your

3:17

they are. You

3:20

are. Fired. Up

3:22

as you. I'm. Not

3:24

that he did that good. know that

3:26

is obviously his interpreter who had his

3:28

banking though it was Mariko. some of

3:30

the view of just wait you. Will.

3:33

Be flying a Boeing aircraft. A

3:36

has. Gone. Is

3:38

getting involved in the shogun universe for

3:40

you? You know there's some central overlap,

3:43

but we're seeing were one of many

3:45

rooted courses were running it over with

3:47

the effects. Braintrust. Okay, I think

3:49

there's some possibility of her your own.

3:51

I mean, because once you start relying

3:53

on someone to communicate truthfully, have time.

3:57

to say that so are we are you playing a

3:59

boeing I am definitely flying.

4:01

I'm flying like the kind

4:04

of the bad boeing. Will you wear a

4:06

mask which you know I'm not sure if

4:08

I will keep you healthy from viruses, you

4:10

know of the traditional sense but it might protect

4:12

you. Oh the mask that comes down from the

4:15

ceiling. Do I put that on prematurely? No no

4:17

no no the N95 that will protect you from

4:19

the woke mind virus. No I'm going to wear

4:21

my Bane mask. It worked for him

4:23

when the plane broke apart. It's a great call. That's

4:25

a great call. Man such a

4:27

such an abundance today. Almost an

4:30

early spring harvest for us. Where

4:32

do you want to start? I got I got

4:34

an acolyte trailer. It's not a kosama. You're doing

4:37

it. You tell your lord. The

4:39

bets were placed through Fandul. Legal

4:42

yes. Adviseable no. Problematic

4:45

perhaps. But at no

4:47

point did

4:49

I bet on the shogunate. Okay yep. So

4:54

we're doing John Blackthorn telling

4:57

Mariko to. So

4:59

on one side is Rob Manfred. Yeah. On

5:01

the other side it's getting. This is when you

5:04

rushed me. You rushed me. I didn't rush you

5:06

at all. I was about to start talking about

5:08

Jedi's. Let's talk about Jedi's. Okay.

5:11

Our long awaited television series

5:13

from Disney pluse the acolyte

5:15

which is the high

5:18

republic era. It is your favorite

5:20

republic. The Wesley Headland series

5:23

in the Star Wars universe announced back

5:25

in 2020. Those heady days

5:27

of Bane masks. And.

5:29

For real though. It's finally here.

5:32

I mean I found it.

5:34

The trailer dropped. It's totally I

5:36

think somewhere located

5:38

somewhere between Ahsoka and Andor.

5:43

Obviously Jedi heavy. It

5:46

seems to be about someone

5:48

hunting Jedi's and Jedi's

5:51

hunting that person back.

5:54

I will say that in one

5:56

trailer. Carrie Anne Moss puts

5:58

up 45 points. Oh

6:01

my god P R Tunnel under

6:03

been contacted see how outrageous area

6:05

was obviously a nearby The Trinity

6:07

from The Matrix and I've memento

6:09

in a bunch of other stuff

6:11

like. To stop So got

6:13

it. Still got is still basically. Those.

6:15

At a kick ass. so. At. That was really

6:17

my major headline from this trailer. Did you get a

6:19

be a lot of and a tours and last of

6:22

us energy though from Carrie Anne Moss. Like easier for

6:24

a good time at a long time. Ah, that's a

6:26

really good question I am. I hadn't thought about that.

6:28

I mean I guess like no one of really dinosaurs

6:30

rate assertion couldn't see come back as a guide for

6:32

sort of those yeah is that we're We're starting for.

6:36

Christmas is just a shocking ignorance

6:39

about the nature of. Ah,

6:42

Okay, So you're. You're.

6:44

Kind of your beer. Little blank on this

6:46

one year are not blanks. Just.

6:49

Call. Me: Roger Daltrey does. I will get

6:51

fooled again. Wow. and I and I

6:53

just I. Just I protect myself. failures.

6:56

Here's. My take now. I was very surprised by

6:58

the tone of the trailers. well because it was

7:00

much more kick ass than I thought. Which.

7:02

Could be a calculated decision. To.

7:05

Mask would mightier think year show or

7:07

a have your show we have no

7:09

way of knowing but I for whatever

7:11

reason. I. Was kind of surprised and

7:13

then on second viewing a little bit. Taken.

7:16

With the fact that. Okay, we're going

7:18

to get a Jet eyes fighting show and

7:20

I know that there was no be one

7:22

tv show though I wish we could just

7:24

sort of. Collectively, these aren't the droids are

7:27

looking for that from our brains. We haven't.

7:29

Star Wars hasn't done. This.

7:32

Piece of Star Wars in along in would feel

7:34

like a long time. Correct me if I'm wrong.

7:36

But. I don't consider. even with

7:38

the Luke Skywalker digressions, I don't consider the

7:41

full only first to be. As.

7:43

For sensitive let's say as Darwish recently was

7:45

okay and not so not since the movies

7:47

have we tapped into this and then I

7:49

think people who are much more interested in

7:51

this world than we are will say that.

7:53

We've. Actually never seen this era that this

7:55

this show is said a hundred years

7:58

before. Ah, the prequels. And

8:00

at this is a A A At from

8:02

what I'm told us in mathematically rich fictional

8:04

pocket that has been explored lot in books

8:06

and especially comic book. This was when the

8:08

Benioff and Way stuff was supposed to be

8:10

sad Knights of the Higher Public. Yes, when

8:13

the Jet I were just. They. Were

8:15

running things and like that was it was a

8:17

more peaceful time. Except for when the

8:19

jazz were running. since I heard a word reckon

8:21

shop re us I think that. There

8:23

were some things that made me. Interested.

8:27

And then some things that made me

8:29

a little bit concerned. I think it's

8:31

generally. I. Am allergic to

8:33

stories that attempt to mine the

8:35

highest possible steaks from fictional histories

8:37

that have already been written or

8:39

decided. so give me an example.

8:41

Well, well, what I mean is.

8:44

And we might even get to this little bit with has has

8:46

drag idea i thought your and as which is to say. The.

8:48

Implication of the series at least for

8:50

the casuals. from the way that it's

8:52

been presented, the way that those the

8:54

Sith lightsaber over the Disney logo at

8:56

the end without that is is that

8:58

my keep up that dumb. Are

9:01

all red light sabers? It's like where they're

9:03

bad that signifies historically that back. On.

9:06

That. That this is going to. Seize.

9:09

Out the origins of Evil in the

9:11

Star Wars universe because we talk about

9:13

every time Star Wars. Unlike some of

9:15

these other. Big Ip

9:17

properties does not to reboot. It does not

9:19

do multi vs. it's all one historical Fred:

9:21

Yes so that the so that the big

9:23

picture. why should I care about this one

9:25

if I've been away for awhile. Seems to

9:27

be that with they seem to be selling

9:29

is. This. Is the beginning of the

9:31

Dark Ages if you will. In. Some

9:33

way. okay for those as s or back. I

9:36

don't know if I'm a casual are hardcore, just

9:38

jaded. I think the minimum is is that were

9:40

you You and I are or somewhere in the

9:42

middle. Yeah I'm like I. I would

9:44

be more it's in these characters rather

9:46

than their role in hastening the demise

9:48

of the Republic or the whatever you

9:50

know and I and again we point

9:53

to and or as a remarkable show

9:55

that made the best in our view

9:57

the television show of that year. out

9:59

of the scraps left over from a

10:01

larger pre-written narrative. Yep. Right. And that's very

10:04

hard to do and few people can do

10:06

it like Tony Gilroy can. Again,

10:08

that said though, I am all

10:10

in with optimism because of

10:12

Leslie Hedlund, who I think is a really unique

10:15

filmmaker and choice for this, because generationally,

10:18

she is, I mean, she's, she's sort of

10:20

a, are around our age and has similar

10:22

interests in that she loves and has made

10:24

talky indie films, but she also grew up

10:27

loving action movies and loving Star Wars. Yeah. And so

10:29

I think that I think it's

10:31

cool that they led with the action in this.

10:34

And that sounds surprising. Yeah. But, you know, yeah,

10:36

are there a couple of red lightsabers and red

10:38

flags like magic kids? Not

10:40

really a fan. Yeah. You know, I think the thing

10:42

that is the other thing that's interesting to me from

10:44

this trailer, other than the casting,

10:46

because it's like we get a lot of Lee Jung

10:49

Jae, who we remember from Squid Game. We

10:51

get a little glimpse of Manny Jacinto from

10:53

The Good Place. Daphne Keene, who is in

10:55

Logan. Charlie Burnett from Leslie Hedlund's previous show,

10:57

Russian Doll. And Jodie

10:59

Turner Smith. But Jodie

11:02

Turner Smith, who plays, I googled this. She's

11:04

the leader of a coven of Force Witches,

11:07

which I didn't know. So are they like, here's what

11:09

the show is about and here's like, here are who all

11:11

the characters are? There's a list of characters. No,

11:13

I think, I think some of this has been announced. But

11:15

what was interesting to me, and I think what was significant

11:17

for the fandom is she delivers some line about like, they're

11:20

basically, there's no good and evil, there's just who wields power.

11:22

And I know that this has been a

11:25

spirited debate within the halls, the hallowed halls

11:27

of Lucasfilm. This is incredible. As to like,

11:29

you're like the Jeff Passen of. Listen, I

11:32

just know that in the right in the in the

11:34

GM's office over there. Is

11:37

Star Wars essentially a like,

11:40

Cambodian binary fairy tale where there's

11:42

good and evil Jedi and Sith?

11:44

Or can you be like the

11:46

John Dos Passos, Tony Gilroy? Or

11:48

are people people and whether they have

11:51

midichlorians or not, like their decisions are

11:53

their own. Yeah. And I'm more

11:55

interested in that version of it. It's fucking crazy, though, to

11:58

me that like, there's this. that

12:00

like Star Wars is

12:02

the Fed and the people telling these stories are

12:04

Jerome Powell and they can like knock the stock

12:07

market off if they change the language. The

12:09

only other thing I'll say is that everything we were

12:11

told about the show in advance was that Amanda

12:13

Stenberg is the star of it and there were

12:15

a lot of very I think credibly sourced rumors

12:17

that she's playing twins. Oh she's playing good

12:19

and bad Jedi. This trailer gives us

12:22

none of that. Okay. But

12:25

you're just you're just processing. It's not that

12:27

I'm processing I just don't think at any

12:29

point me being like I don't like the

12:31

volume and I don't like. They didn't use the volume.

12:33

Did you see this? It looks like they used the volume.

12:35

There was some stuff when the trailer was released that they

12:37

were like this was shot in London like

12:39

this was shot in England. Okay. You

12:41

didn't recognize those street corners from your time

12:44

in London? Let's talk about House of the

12:46

Dragon. Okay. Two more trailers. Yeah this is

12:48

another trailer that just. Did you watch both

12:50

of them? There was two House of

12:52

the Dragon trailers. I knew it! I texted you

12:54

so you sent me one. Oh it was one

12:56

told from the black trailer. Oh

12:59

I didn't know! And then there's the green trailer.

13:01

There must be a red band trailer coming. But

13:03

Chris you always seek out both sides of every

13:05

news story. I guess why

13:07

you look at you watch NBC and then

13:09

you look at Truth Social and I can't

13:11

believe you didn't get both of these trailers.

13:13

My bad. I texted you. I

13:15

thought you were joking. I don't joke

13:17

with you. Yeah you said you didn't you say

13:19

like weird. Wasn't there a black version? And then

13:21

I was like ah Chris didn't respond because more

13:24

of the fool lie. I just googled. Also I

13:26

scrolled down on YouTube and it was like now

13:28

check this out. Okay so the other side is

13:30

the other trailer the trailer from the side of

13:32

the other family or you know whoever. It's compelling.

13:34

It turns out the terrorists were freedom

13:36

fighters and

13:38

as soon as Aegon secures the

13:40

throne he's gonna let them all out. Okay.

13:44

What was your takeaway from both trailers I guess?

13:46

I want to know your takeaway because nobody wants

13:48

to hear one. Well I want one side of

13:50

it. You know I'll tell you this if you

13:52

know as sometimes happens with shows that are delayed

13:54

I'm having this experience right now because I was

13:56

I'm one of my sort of my little passion

13:59

projects. because over the last few years was the

14:01

show Outer Range that was on Amazon a few

14:03

years back. And that is coming back

14:06

after like three years. And I was

14:08

like, I have no earthly recollection

14:10

what happened on that television program or what

14:12

anybody's name is. Oh, Lewis Pullman's on that

14:14

show. Yes. Did you know that? It's

14:18

my favorite bit. This is one of my

14:20

least favorite bits. House of the

14:22

Dragon, after re-familiarizing myself with where we were

14:24

at, I think that this

14:26

show is going to have a lot

14:29

more narrative momentum. I can't really speak

14:31

to its public momentum, but I am

14:33

enthusiastic about it because all of

14:35

the engine revving and all

14:38

of the sort of like preamble overture

14:41

stuff that had to happen to kind

14:43

of establish the generational long, the generations

14:46

of conflict that we're

14:48

going to come up in bad blood and shared

14:50

blood. I think we're

14:53

now fully into the military campaigns,

14:55

fully into what I understand

14:57

to be quite

14:59

a kill your darlings type story as is

15:01

the fitting of George Martin. And

15:03

I'm looking forward to it. And I'm honestly

15:06

like Matt Smith is that dude. And I'm

15:08

really excited for him. Yeah, I

15:10

agree with that. To be back on my screen. I

15:12

will say purely objectively,

15:16

this feels like the show that they intended to

15:18

make. This is the show that I'm sure it

15:20

was pitched and conceived of as being all

15:23

due respect to the way they tried to spin the

15:25

first season. But I think that this it seems like

15:28

a more confident product when the battlefield

15:30

is the battlefield as opposed to a womb.

15:33

And looks like we're in for a, you know,

15:35

like kind of a banger of what people want

15:37

of Dragon on Dragon action. This

15:42

won't surprise anyone. I don't think

15:44

I want to go back to Westeros. That's fine.

15:46

I mean, I will for the podcast. You can

15:48

do it. We can check in. But

15:51

I have to say that like, I don't have

15:53

a fondness for this world or really much of

15:55

an interest anymore. And I think it's I think

15:57

it's was noteworthy that we got these trailers. right

16:00

when three body problem dropped because and we'll talk a

16:02

little bit about it today and you know more generally

16:04

we'll get more specific into the episodes next week but

16:07

it is useful

16:09

it's a for me it's a useful resetting

16:11

to be so forcefully reminded

16:14

of what David Benioff and DB

16:16

Weiss are particularly good at

16:19

and they roll up their sleeves and they

16:21

do some world building from the ground up

16:23

in ways that I find really remarkable how they're able

16:25

to do it now three

16:27

body problem is not the works of John Dos Passos I

16:30

don't want to overrate the show off of one what

16:32

JDP love from us today that's on brand

16:34

for us honestly but but

16:38

I you know House of the Dragon

16:41

for all the things that it does right and it

16:43

would be one win the Emmy or did the

16:45

Golden Globe it did win the Emmy no

16:47

yes no Golden

16:50

Globe anyway it

16:52

was declared best drama somewhere and

16:57

I don't think the show really bothered with

17:00

the specifics of what Benioff and Weiss are

17:03

good at that mean they didn't work on the

17:05

show so that makes sense to me but it

17:07

to me this show remains kind of

17:09

a very very well run machine

17:12

that is the machine that those guys left behind which is

17:14

like we know how to do these sets we know how

17:16

to do these dragon effects we know how to like stir

17:19

the loins of the fans when the

17:21

references come fast and furious but not

17:23

so much the oh

17:26

this guy makes pies what's he doing I'm also just

17:28

fundamentally Chris I don't know that maybe this is a

17:30

little rich in an election year but like I'm

17:33

not that interested in the throne like the throne sucks who wants

17:35

to be king of this stupid place I think that that is

17:38

part of the discussion though is within the show I mean

17:40

I think that is sort of like this cursed kind of

17:42

crown that they are there with somebody is going to

17:44

be forced to wear and we also know from Game

17:46

of Thrones albeit briefly or you know relatively

17:49

briefly I did want to kind of connect this to

17:51

three-body problem I was going to connect it to manhunt

17:53

because I do feel like three days ago we were

17:55

saying like maybe we're not that interested in Virginia

17:58

Cobblers. The.

18:01

It didn't know what your i am once

18:03

again being like who makes the shoes that

18:05

space and was throws yeah. One

18:08

of the things that's gonna be fascinating in our

18:10

conversations about Three Body Problem as I I really

18:12

am looking forward to discussing with you. Is.

18:16

A. A mind mind how much Three Body Problem

18:19

feels like a show made for Netflix in

18:21

Twenty Twenty Four and I don't have I

18:23

don't mean those and pejorative ways. No, no,

18:25

I agree with you. I think that there

18:27

is an element of it where. You

18:30

might look at three body problem be like. Gosh,

18:33

These guys rushed through this. You know, like

18:35

these guys after all the flack they took

18:37

for the end up meeting a of ways

18:39

so the end of Game of Thrones and

18:41

for the feeling that they were. Kind

18:44

of accelerating through a ton of plot.

18:47

Just to get to the end and to hit like

18:49

a d and maybe even to be done with it.

18:53

It almost feels like in Three Body

18:55

Problem they're like that's actually are preferred

18:58

mode of storytelling. We're going to research

19:00

this stuff and. I think in

19:02

some ways the material is different. There's ah,

19:04

in some ways it's easier to kind of

19:07

just go with the flow. When.

19:09

It's dragons and fantasy than it

19:11

is when it's actually suggesting that

19:13

there's a. Scientific.

19:15

Basis for a lot of what's happening in the show.

19:18

Which is the case for three body problem. But I'll

19:20

be very interested to see people's reactions because I think.

19:23

I. Silly three body problem In a

19:25

good way. In a cool way as like

19:27

watching lost on Two Point. Oh speeds. I

19:30

hear six minutes and right now I'm side

19:32

of was like when I was watching it

19:35

I was like. I. Kind of this

19:37

watching lost him battlestar Galactica and having these kind

19:39

of like and as good at maybe there might

19:41

be like kind of a.episode but next week there's

19:43

another one and now we have like this feeling

19:45

of not. Not. Like over the course

19:47

of the episodes were gonna have. To

19:50

and a half books or whatever he

19:52

was sure because compressed story. It's

19:54

gonna be like. Know it's more

19:56

like com, it's more like a marathon and.

20:00

If as soon as you were those guys want

20:02

to talk about and we we are talking was

20:04

like to us. The first episode though being released

20:06

right? Yeah so we're recording on Thursday. The whole

20:08

first season is now available on your Netflix box

20:11

and I do. I did watch this of Disease.

20:14

You. Your. The may on this. Now

20:16

it's a symptom fia. Loved.

20:18

It such methods I'm excited. I know related

20:20

to either. It's not that I think that

20:23

there is flawless but I loved watching it.

20:25

I am with you. I watched the first

20:27

one and I was thrilled. I'm super into

20:29

it. I'm very excited by it. I think

20:32

we will talk about. Generally.

20:34

Little bit now. Cnn when we come back on

20:36

Monday will maybe get more in depth on the

20:38

first three. Let's say we could sir topic we'll

20:40

We'll figure it out there whenever you people chance

20:42

to catch up. and give me a chance to

20:44

catch up to buy. Yes,

20:47

and. I. Was.

20:49

Very taken with the. Idea.

20:52

Of the experience as much as I was with

20:54

the with the show. For. The same

20:56

reasons you just said which is we

20:59

have been struggling with the disconnect and

21:01

a lot of big ticket shows between

21:03

the solidity in strength and seaworthiness of

21:06

the of of. Of the subject

21:08

link, whether this this book that they're adapting or

21:10

this idea that the creative side is worth all

21:12

of this mixed with. Do. They have the

21:14

budget actually pull it off and make it feel as

21:16

plausible they wanted to. That is not the problem here.

21:19

There's a ton of money being spent as a sign

21:21

of thought and time being poured into at their lot

21:23

of great resources. And you see it, On

21:25

the screen in a way that makes you

21:27

feel excited to go on a journey as

21:29

opposed to trepidation right from jumps and also

21:31

say and by wish attitude The ringer Zach

21:33

Cram who wrote that was it's fantastic piece.

21:36

About. His relationship with the

21:38

books and inspired the show and the show

21:40

itself. Coming. Right out saying

21:42

something that I think people who are you know

21:45

generally where the that the keepers of the flame

21:47

of the original material rarely say which is. The.

21:49

books or his favorites i five books that is read

21:51

but he thinks the show is better or a hitter

21:53

expression of some of the books ideas i was grateful

21:56

for that because i don't i don't know if we

21:58

ever talked about i tried to read the book I

22:00

read oh, I didn't know that yeah, I and this is more

22:02

on me if there's something wrong with the book, but

22:04

I Found it. I

22:07

made about a hundred pages dense and it was just very

22:09

dense and as the end I did

22:11

not read the book moving like now was like it's

22:13

dead who wrote the books was not a writer first

22:16

He was a scientist and he found

22:18

the way to express was interesting him

22:20

to him through literature But it

22:22

was the ideas first and you could feel that the

22:25

show I feel like is an act of

22:27

pretty radical isn't the word

22:29

but certainly thoughtful adaptation Which

22:31

is to say that it is

22:33

preserving to my mind anyway And

22:36

certainly to people who know better like like Zach and his piece

22:38

preserving the the spirit of it the

22:40

ideas what mattered most to the writer

22:43

and Saying here, let's build a new

22:45

bridge to let you into it. And

22:47

I really really appreciated that I also

22:49

think I mean just starting from jump I don't think

22:51

this is a spoiler to say the book and the

22:53

series both begin with a harrowing scene

22:56

set during the absolute

22:59

worst of Chinese cultural revolution in the

23:01

60s and This

23:04

is there many other reasons why you

23:07

you you swing big with the people you choose

23:09

to adapt this if I think that if they

23:11

Don't if those guys have been enough and Weiss

23:13

and we shouldn't shortchange Alexander Wu's the veteran of

23:15

true blood who is credited as the third showrunner

23:17

creator of the show if they don't

23:19

get that scene, right? Then maybe the

23:22

whole thing falls apart. Yeah, I mean there's like

23:24

there's a I would say like ten

23:26

of those moments where it's like if you guys fuck

23:28

this up, it's gonna kind of turn the show up

23:30

on its It's gonna be

23:32

hard to keep going along with the show in some

23:34

ways and that's kind of why in those moments That's

23:36

why you pay that's why you signed Bryce Harper to

23:39

the 13 year deal like you want the guys who

23:41

don't blink In the big

23:43

moment. Yeah And there's a moment

23:45

later in the season. I'm not even describe it, but

23:48

it happens Then the credits come

23:50

up and it's directed by

23:52

Jeremy Padezwa Written by Betty off

23:54

away said I was like, it's the gang got got the

23:56

hairs on my arm stood up a little bit there You

23:58

know, I think that's that opening

24:01

scene is excruciating and painful in

24:03

an emotional way and in a

24:05

historical way and in a grounded

24:07

way and Made me

24:09

excited because I'm like well we don't get

24:11

many shows about the ravages of

24:13

the Cultural Revolution in Communist China Yeah, the fact

24:15

that that is important to them the butterfly flapping

24:17

its wings Yeah And that that's important to the

24:19

people who are adapting it gives me confidence that

24:22

when they make the larger wholesale changes that again

24:24

You can read about in many pieces, but I

24:26

like Zach's piece a lot like Taking

24:29

characters who are I think by

24:31

and large Chinese Yes nationals within the

24:34

world of the book and say and just and

24:36

very disparate and They're very TV

24:38

in the best possible way idea of

24:40

saying let's make them old friends at

24:42

Oxford. Mm-hmm more Geographically

24:44

and culturally and ethnically diverse group

24:47

and give them the same traits but center it in a way

24:50

It's crucial. Yeah, cuz that's what TV shows do the

24:52

book doesn't need to do that and the book is

24:54

there The book is there for people who have read

24:56

it and who still will read it I'm looking forward

24:58

to talking to you about the show in depth. Um,

25:00

we can I say one thing other thing about it?

25:02

Yeah Benedict Wong

25:05

is great in a trench coat

25:07

playing basically Morgan Freeman from seven.

25:09

Yeah sick I love him in

25:11

this show and it made me

25:13

really excited. Um, so

25:15

fun. It's fun to have a big show I hope you're happy

25:17

with the whole thing that makes me feel even better. You know

25:20

what it is It's just like it's not flawless There's

25:22

definitely critiques I have of it. There's even points

25:24

where I'm like, I think

25:27

I'm trying to reckon in my mind with Something

25:31

that is increasingly like kind of glaring to

25:33

me in most blockbuster television

25:35

and movies Which is just like the

25:38

degree to which CGI stuff just is now

25:40

animated Yeah, and that's just gonna be half

25:42

how it is. Yeah for 95% if it's

25:44

not Villeneuve and

25:46

Chris Nolan, I guess everybody else is just gonna

25:49

be like check it out The

25:51

computer anything. Yeah, but they

25:53

at least are like what

25:55

is the craziest thing I could do with that

25:57

and I Found it emotionally

26:00

affecting honestly and pretty it's

26:03

just like obviously that these guys know

26:05

how to build up to and Then

26:08

deliver on huge moments and shows that

26:11

and I think I

26:14

think that they're they're maybe they're not singular or

26:16

whatever but like it does remind me of What

26:19

loss was capable of it reminds me of a battle

26:21

star was capable of it reminds me of what for

26:23

all mankind was capable of at the best of of

26:26

it So yeah,

26:28

I was really excited to talk about it I

26:30

would say for people who have watched or soon

26:32

to watch the the the pilot

26:34

the premiere I won't

26:36

spoil the last five

26:38

minutes and what happens But I

26:40

would recommend after you've watched the first time go back and

26:42

watch it again go back to the scene

26:44

beginning of the scene when when

26:47

what's his name Augie and Jovan

26:50

a depo's character Saul

26:53

Saul Meet at

26:55

midnight at Oxford. I'll from that moment on and

26:57

the reason I bring that up is because you and I One

27:01

of the reasons we met him became friends is

27:03

because we love music one thing that I and

27:05

bands and songs I never cared about music theory

27:07

like I didn't diagram or I don't read music

27:09

I didn't think about that sort of structure of

27:11

what connected the songs that I like I'm more

27:13

interested in that in storytelling and

27:15

if you watch the sequence a second time and

27:17

you see the way they constructed it in

27:20

terms of How they're delivering information

27:22

when they're cutting to the flashback in

27:24

China when they cut to Benedict

27:26

Wong running to the roof It's

27:30

expert. Yes, and there are a hundred different

27:32

ways They could have played that scene those

27:35

scenes not intercutting playing the the thing that

27:37

is shocking and beautiful Playing

27:39

it from the characters POV first, which

27:41

they do not they play it off of their

27:43

faces first. Yes That's how

27:45

that's the difference between TV

27:48

that impresses you and TV that grabs you by

27:50

the heart. Yeah, and I thought that was really

27:52

I thought was really impressive I just think it's

27:55

a fascinating commentary on where we

27:57

are with our either collective attention

27:59

spans or how we tell

28:01

stories in television now that you

28:04

could make the argument that the thing that happens at

28:06

the end of the first episode Would

28:09

be at the end of the first season of the HBO

28:15

2009 or 10 version right of

28:17

this show I I was watching this too with

28:19

the spirit of Okay, well

28:21

what's different now that it's Netflix and I think the

28:23

thing that I ended up because there was a moment

28:26

in the middle where I was like

28:29

Yeah, this is you can you could I

28:31

say this is someone who loved the episode, but

28:34

there were moments Where I was

28:36

like, this is what happens when they are not it when

28:38

they're not getting a more robust notes process I'm sure they

28:40

were getting I mean, do you see how many EPs are

28:42

on the show a lot a Lot

28:45

like people that I what Ryan

28:48

Johnson's involved in this but a lot of

28:50

people so there are a lot of cooks

28:52

in the kitchen This isn't to say this

28:54

was a smooth sailing creators first process but

28:56

I think that sometimes you can tell when

28:58

something has been noted considerably

29:00

by the creative teams that have the confidence

29:02

to work with artists in a respectful way

29:04

whether it's an HBO show or an FX

29:06

show and I'm sure Netflix as executives

29:08

who can do this as well But there were a couple

29:10

moments from like they're rushing through stuff.

29:12

They're they're doing it their way. It just

29:14

felt For lack of a

29:17

better word. Maybe those guys are actually building it out from

29:19

the back being like we don't want to work on This

29:21

for 10 years. Well, I think 100% that but I also

29:23

think that The

29:26

real story here is HBO doesn't want to make

29:28

this show for for many many

29:30

many reasons It is it is hard

29:32

dense sci-fi it is expensive

29:34

and global in ways that

29:37

you know, it's hard to It's

29:39

just it's profoundly not The

29:41

Game of Thrones process in so many ways in terms of what

29:43

we're gonna grab people what we're trying to do and how long

29:45

We're going to be doing it. I think is crucial. I So

29:48

it by the end I came around and was like this is what

29:51

it is And it's in the right place

29:53

like they have made and maybe this is another sign

29:55

of how Communion ik these guys are in

29:57

that like their project was we will take it

29:59

non-adaptable fantasy epic and make people understand why we

30:01

like fantasy and now we'll do that for sci-fi in

30:04

a way that will make people understand why we like

30:06

sci-fi. They're also like we will do this prestige

30:10

grabby audience want to be monoculture show

30:12

in the Netflix model. Yeah in the

30:14

Netflix yeah

30:17

accent. Let's take a

30:19

quick break and we can come back and

30:21

talk about showgun. You need to do Top Chef

30:23

at the end. Yeah. All right I like the way you

30:25

plan this out. Yeah. This

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32:16

Alright, episode 5 Shogun, Broken to

32:18

the Fist, written by Matt Lambert

32:20

and directed by Fredrik E.O. Toy.

32:24

I wish I had more initials. Me too. I

32:26

could see you wanting that. Should I start

32:28

calling myself C.P. Ryan? No, you

32:30

need two initials. It's only cool if there are two

32:32

and some of them are vowels. Okay.

32:36

Uh, Bun-Taro back. You fucking

32:38

doubted him. I didn't. You did.

32:41

Absolutely not. I am on record on the

32:43

Watch Podcast. You were throwing dirt on his

32:45

grave. I said show me the

32:47

one body problem. You

32:51

were basically like, we started that podcast and you were like,

32:53

what a shame, Bun-Taro is dead. I mean, in

32:55

a different world, if

32:58

it was all on demand, if I

33:00

had a little three body problem visor

33:02

on and I could just dial it up, show

33:04

me Bun-Taro and the Ronin fighting

33:06

their way back to Shornaga. For

33:09

real. Talk about leaving meat on the bone of a

33:11

story. These

33:13

dudes spend a ton of time on a

33:15

pheasant in this show this episode and I'm

33:17

like, that guy just beat 75 samurai.

33:21

Now, you know, which

33:23

one is budgetarily more, uh, yeah,

33:27

there are, there are a couple moments that being the

33:29

largest one where you realize

33:32

how big of a risk a lot of these

33:34

companies, like the risk that these companies are taking.

33:37

And before we started talking

33:39

about the show, before we started seeing it, before

33:41

we started loving it, I think

33:43

that was the defining feature of this project was like,

33:46

wow, they're taking a big expensive swing. I hope it

33:48

works out for them. Now we're like, boy,

33:50

they left a lot on the table here. This could

33:52

have been a three season Epic where we did all

33:54

these X, you know, there's plenty here for that, but

33:57

they couldn't justify that risk. I

34:00

have a lot of headlines from this episode. I assume

34:02

you loved it. I loved it. OK. So

34:04

don't call him Buntaro unless you're his homie.

34:08

That's true. He is alive. He

34:10

returns home for some Bob Carroll,

34:12

Ted Nallis action with Blackthorn, Fuji,

34:14

and his wife, Mariko. It's

34:16

an awkward domicile. Yeah.

34:19

And I think actually at the end of the

34:21

episode, or at least midway through, you're like, oh,

34:24

this is kind of the reject

34:26

outcast outsider house. In

34:29

some ways, you're looking at it, and you're like, oh, how

34:32

nice of Toranaga to bless this

34:34

dude with a cool hut. And

34:37

instead, it's like, oh, actually, it's like, You live here too.

34:40

It's the engine and the three people with shame. Oh,

34:43

it's the shame house. Shame house. It's like a

34:46

Bravo series. How's

34:49

that one, Kai? Would you watch that?

34:51

Kai is in. Bravo shame house. Andy

34:53

Cohen hosts the reunion

34:55

of Bravo's shame house. The

34:58

engine will bring his famous stew. That

35:04

house is wild. I mean, it's

35:06

also that this is

35:08

very Toranaga, because he is

35:11

absolutely just centralizing all of

35:13

the squeaky wheels in one

35:15

place. Toranaga, I got to

35:17

say, one of

35:19

my least favorite bits is when

35:21

guys are like, you've betrayed

35:23

me. And it's like, oh, yeah, I've betrayed you. But it

35:26

was also this other guy. And he's like, that

35:28

other guy was right, though. I was just

35:30

like, all right, man, why don't you just say what you want?

35:32

You know? You

35:35

don't think everybody should be Obi-Wanning all

35:37

the time? But I just thought that

35:40

it's very cool. So to

35:42

go back to the original point of, why don't we

35:44

get Buntaro fighting his way back through a forest? Because

35:48

this show is more interested in what

35:52

transpires once Buntaro gets back,

35:54

and also this, whoa, this

35:56

domestic scene. And honestly, it's

35:59

I don't. I do not use this as a pejorative

36:01

term or as a I don't

36:04

mean to sound like I have a lack of imagination because we were

36:06

just talking about it I think I'll bring it up. It's

36:08

so thrones II To do

36:11

47 minutes of really good Dialogue

36:15

and acting and have all this stuff transpire

36:17

But only in between these people walking

36:19

in and out of room and then at

36:21

the end you hit them with Last

36:24

week it was the cannon attack this week.

36:27

It's an earthquake and basically like

36:29

at the very end true

36:31

thronesian Emergence evil

36:33

turn for a character that we don't really

36:35

know anything about Diana Riggs shows up. Yeah.

36:38

Yeah I would also say to your point The

36:40

show is telling us something in

36:43

the awkward dinner scene It's

36:46

made clear to Blackthorn that like the

36:49

details of it is unbecoming to

36:51

talk about the details of the battle So

36:54

the show had a very natural Cultural

36:56

out to be like we're not going to show you that

36:58

because that's not what the show is about Did

37:01

you think I see one of the things I don't get is

37:03

like if you're Blackthorn This is the second time people don't like

37:05

why don't you tell us about one of your battles? Yeah, they

37:07

want to know I would just be like yo, man. I was

37:10

out there and Napoleon was out there I was like,

37:12

what's up, bitch? You think you'd make it up? Yeah,

37:15

why not? Well, also none of that mean anything the

37:17

paper like I don't know like you think there's an

37:19

army of fact checkers and Japanese This

37:24

one gets three Pinocchios Blackthorn. I

37:27

don't think he really did that. I Just

37:31

community notes. No, just be like yeah

37:33

much of his education this episode. I'm

37:35

Alexander the Great man. What do you

37:37

think? England yeah

37:41

Untero summer The

37:45

idea he's just like Another

37:47

man living in my home interesting

37:49

savage curious Sexual

37:52

no Absolutely

37:55

not about

38:00

the dinner scene. Let's do it. So

38:02

he wants to make them pheasant. It's sweet. Why

38:05

does he have to dry it out? There's a lot going

38:07

on here. There will be a great chance.

38:10

I warn you, it may

38:13

not be the way in Osaka. It

38:15

is in Atlanta. Put some stank on it. I

38:18

command you. Lemon

38:20

pepper wet. That's literally what he's

38:23

saying. I like that he's warning

38:25

them all. But is it a little bit of a

38:27

hat on a hat where you was like, oh no.

38:30

Because first he has the pheasant, but then he

38:32

makes an unrelated stew. Yes. Sherry.

38:36

Oh. Good for sharing. Was

38:38

he like, we're going to use some of the

38:40

pheasant for the stew? He didn't use the pheasant

38:42

for the stew. What was he waiting for it

38:45

to turn into? Well, right. Fermentation,

38:49

Noma 2.0. Yeah, but

38:51

air fermentation? Yeah. Yeah.

38:54

I mean, this is like, you ever had like a dry aged steak? Yeah.

38:57

The outside molds a little bit. And

39:00

then you carve off the

39:02

bits and you get

39:04

a pretty rich, richly flavored meat

39:06

that's perhaps a little too rich

39:08

for the sensitive pallets. I

39:11

thought that the depiction

39:14

of customs, both domestic

39:18

and also emotional, was wonderful in

39:21

this episode. And it's an idea

39:24

that obviously, Mariko and Blackthorn

39:27

are really the only two people in their

39:29

lives. They are communicating in

39:31

a way in which they can't with anyone

39:33

else in some ways. And

39:37

Blackthorn's sort of objection

39:40

to Riko's specifically,

39:43

but the Japanese generally,

39:48

their eightfold fences and their ways of

39:50

compartmentalizing and the fact that everything has

39:52

this ritual and everything has this custom

39:54

and everything has this order

39:57

of operations and this practice. And he's just like,

39:59

I'm just bound to. around and doing

40:01

my thing. I love

40:03

it. I thought that. And

40:05

also like the kind of conversation that happens over

40:08

the course of the episode where it's like you're

40:10

the outsider to us. You think that we're weird.

40:12

We think you're fucking weird. Yeah. And that is

40:14

such a smart. That's all

40:16

there. That's in the text. I mean, I'm sorry,

40:19

I haven't read the book. So I don't know if it's in

40:21

the text text, but it's there in the material. And

40:23

it's actually in three body problem like around page 200 shows

40:26

really. Wow. You're going to lord

40:28

this over me. I haven't read it. No, but

40:30

you've watched the show. I'm sure you're halfway there. Yeah.

40:34

Because the speech that Blackthorn gives

40:37

to Mariko, where he's basically like, we

40:40

only have, it's a very Western. It's a

40:42

very, it's not rom com. It's

40:44

a very like romantic idea that

40:47

is central to so much literature, which is

40:49

like our lives are our own. We are

40:51

the pilots of our own destiny and we

40:53

can't waste time worrying about other people. And

40:56

she's like, I feel bad for

40:58

you because you're a moron who is bound

41:00

by ego. And it allows

41:02

us also to see his,

41:05

remember we talked about this, but I don't think

41:07

we saw it in context yet. Then in the

41:09

first episode, his whole thing is like, not today.

41:11

Don't be dying. And we're like, wow, that's just

41:14

incredible. That is self that's born out. That

41:16

seems to be correct. But that there's, but

41:18

there's something a little bit

41:20

missing there. I do also want to pay attention

41:23

to the sake scene because I know we haven't

41:25

been keeping up with, at

41:27

least on the podcast. Are you, how much have you been

41:29

keeping up with Curb Your Enthusiasm this season? Yes,

41:31

but I'm not current, but I have been

41:33

keeping. I was, I'm up to Lori Lawson.

41:36

Okay. So there was an episode, I remember

41:39

it was like the third or fourth episode of

41:41

the season called disgruntled about some issues at the

41:43

golf course, which is actually what the entire season

41:45

and Larry David's life seems to be about at

41:48

this point. But it really reminded me of that

41:50

episode because when they get the sake out and,

41:52

you know, Blackthorn's my country drink from

41:54

Flaggons. Do you remember the scene

41:56

when we, when they're like, Leon, will you go to the urologist

41:58

for me? And they're like, Can you pee in a

42:00

cup? He's like, I can pee in a cup. I prefer to pee

42:02

in a bowl. There's some

42:05

real like prestige TV overlap. Yeah. He prefers

42:07

the larger vessel on that end. Do you

42:09

think that just incidentally, like, I don't know

42:11

how many people are listening to watch those.

42:13

Are like going to be okay if Curb

42:15

just ends with Larry, like getting a par

42:18

on the 18th hole of Riv and then

42:20

being like Dolph's cat that walks off. Like,

42:22

I don't think there's going to be like

42:24

a Twin Peaks ending of the Curb Your

42:26

Enthusiasm. No, although remember

42:29

he did. I mean, he's died on the

42:31

show before. Yeah. And other places that

42:33

like he he in order to be sure he wouldn't

42:36

go back to it, he killed his character and then

42:38

came back. Yeah, the golf

42:40

drama is super relatable. 90%

42:43

of the audience. Yeah,

42:46

so. The pheasant

42:48

really becomes a sticking point. It's

42:51

a sticky pheasant, you know, he's really

42:53

like a cocoa van. What do you think is like the what are

42:55

you going to do with it? I mean, so

42:57

the first that Stewie serves is like, but

43:00

he has to have the right ingredients, right? He

43:03

basically, yeah, he's like no, Sherry. Good

43:05

for Sherry. I love that she's like throw this

43:07

into the sea, like it's far

43:09

far away from Fuji runs a

43:11

tight ship. I love her. She's

43:13

amazing. A little a little

43:15

gesture of what is into the sea

43:17

at the very end of the episode. Do

43:20

you do you think that that's like

43:22

just like we're in this together, touching

43:24

of hands like with Fuji? I think that

43:26

he goes through this journey where he

43:29

begins to accept the responsibility

43:32

of being someone with

43:34

standing and with a voice and with

43:36

authority in the society. This

43:38

idea that and again, I one

43:41

thing that I'm noticing in the show that I admire

43:43

is the ability over the course of a season for

43:45

them to pretty flawlessly turn

43:48

what I was perceiving as bugs

43:50

into features specifically. Remember

43:52

that John Blackthorne showed up with like 12 dudes?

43:55

I mean, he keeps asking about him. Well, he sort of stops.

43:57

No, he was like, I just need my ship and my men.

43:59

I mean, it's. It's like, it is kind

44:01

of funny because it's like when Daryl Morey calls

44:03

and is like, I'll trade you two second rounders

44:05

for Kevin Durant. It's like, he did call. He

44:07

called. Yeah, there's a phone record. That's a good

44:10

point. So he keeps asking about the guys in

44:12

the boat. But even those

44:14

things to a viewer of the first few

44:16

episodes, I'm like, oh, they're just covering the

44:18

bases. They're ticking a box, right?

44:20

Because the audience might be thinking about that.

44:22

Well, you think the conversation is going to

44:25

be with Blackthorn and the prisoner? And

44:27

he's like, oh, you missed it. That man

44:29

peed on my head. You think that's

44:32

going to be the reason? My

44:34

pheasant was rejected. In England,

44:36

as in Portugal, fences have four sides.

44:38

The thing about the Japan's, eight,

44:41

not seven, not nine. Do

44:43

not ask for a nine-sided fence. Well,

44:46

you might get pissed on. Have

44:48

you enjoyed your time in Osaka? Capital

44:51

city of the Japan's. I

44:54

think that it was like a

44:56

ticking a box for plot narrative purposes.

44:58

Instead, I think in this episode, we

45:00

begin to see that his understanding of

45:02

his responsibility to these men, they are

45:04

like the guns that he likes to

45:06

get. They are useful to him. They

45:08

are part of his larger portfolio of

45:10

what defines him. What changes in this

45:12

episode is his understanding of his life

45:14

and death connection. Right.

45:17

By saying something, someone has died. By

45:19

saving someone, something else has happened. He is

45:22

now more, not

45:24

spiritually, just existentially connected up

45:26

and down to everyone around

45:29

him. Well, speaking of,

45:31

I mentioned that there is at least one

45:33

set piece per episode. This one is the earthquake.

45:35

I found it quite convincing.

45:38

That was good CG. I

45:40

think that this

45:42

show is very wise in how it chooses

45:44

to mask or sometimes

45:46

even dramatize.

45:49

It is some of the sort of like fakeness,

45:52

like when they do the overhead shots and it

45:54

is the entire city. Well, you can tell that

45:56

that is not... recreation

46:00

inside of a computer, but there's something kind of

46:03

artistically valid about it to me, whereas

46:06

I actually found that this earthquake was like really well done

46:08

and then also that terrible

46:10

realization as they go to the they look

46:12

over the hill and they see the entire

46:14

side of the mountain slipping into Edo. It's

46:17

just incredible. That's Is

46:19

that are they that close to Edo? Is

46:21

it is it Edo? The town

46:23

that they're living in? No. It was Tokyo. Oh Where

46:27

are they living? They're in Yabushige's spot.

46:29

Village, right? Okay. Okay. Um, Yeah,

46:33

I I did wonder like what do

46:36

you think what do you think Osaka

46:38

earthquake Twitter was like that

46:40

day? Because maybe

46:42

this is very niche. It actually makes me

46:45

think that I Don't

46:47

really have a true idea of what earthquakes are

46:50

like and let's hope we never do. I'm just

46:52

like Oh my my Tracy, I'm in print. God

46:54

got a little dislodged and that's like the extent

46:56

of it Yeah, because of the equivalent is like

46:58

a bunch of people going whoa Did

47:01

you feel that and the Americana brand memes

47:03

guy like coming up with something involving Nicole

47:05

Kidman at AMC Theaters? Like yeah, maybe we

47:07

don't really know what we're talking about. Yeah,

47:10

I thought that was I thought it was

47:12

beautifully done And and again, like this

47:14

the subtlety and you can credit a great

47:17

amount of talent Part of me wants to credit the amount

47:19

of time they had to develop and kind of like run

47:21

their comb through things Yeah, this

47:23

this set piece Underscoring

47:26

the central theme of the episode about what

47:28

we can control and what we cannot control

47:30

in our life was Artfully

47:33

done and and and it felt

47:35

terrifying because of the way it was at scale

47:40

Do you I mean I have a question about something that happens

47:42

at the end of the earthquake What

47:44

did you want to ask? No, please? over

47:47

the course of the episode, you know, there's when

47:49

Mariko is kind of sitting by the water and

47:51

she's kind of recovering from her her being

47:55

abused by bintaro and Talks

47:59

about she's been forced to talk about

48:01

her family and why she is in the

48:03

situation that she's in. She

48:06

also mentions at the water, like something

48:08

about Fuji's family. And obviously we'd

48:10

seen that earlier in the season with the guy

48:12

who has to, you know, commit

48:14

Sufukwu and kills his baby, her baby.

48:17

And that there's this sort of stain

48:21

on those swords that in, in

48:24

Blackdorn's eye, it was like, oh, I've been given

48:26

these swords. And this is like, so what a

48:28

kind gesture, but also a gesture of like, I've

48:30

achieved a certain status in this society.

48:32

And then, so when he gives

48:34

those swords, those are Fuji's family

48:37

sword, which America says are like

48:39

fraudulent, right? That they lied to

48:42

her about where they came from. Right. And then

48:44

he gives them to Torinaga and Torinaga laughs. Is

48:47

that a like, ha ha, like

48:50

funny how these things. Full

48:52

circle. Yeah. Kind of. I mean, if it was

48:54

anyone else, I would say that they don't know

48:57

the history of it. Torinaga's defining

48:59

character points. He knows everything all the time about what

49:02

everyone is doing. So I think

49:04

in a way he's acknowledging that

49:06

everything is, everything

49:09

has multiple sides. You know, that there is,

49:11

there is a gesture of gratitude,

49:14

of respect, uh, that

49:16

is being done when, when, uh,

49:19

when Blackdorn gives these swords over, but also

49:21

that clearly Blackdorn knows

49:23

that they are not that

49:25

great, but that they are, that they are somehow, uh,

49:27

scarred or marked. And so he's passing along the curse

49:29

in a way that can't be, not the curse, but

49:31

you know what I mean? The, the shame of it

49:33

or whatever, the joke of it in a way that

49:36

can't be given back because there's also the saving, giving

49:38

face and saving face and how you do, how you're

49:40

supposed to behave. So I think that all of those

49:42

gestures and all the reactions to our Nagas and Fuji's

49:44

are like, Oh, he's starting to get it. Um,

49:48

convenient. Like, you know,

49:50

the gardener, that

49:53

guy, that guy guy used, he

49:55

really did just on both ends of his

49:57

existence. Yeah. You know what I mean? I

50:00

asked along some good tips about horticulture. Gotta

50:03

put a rock. Yeah. Otherwise everything

50:05

just grows. Gotta put a rock. But you

50:07

also, was that your, was what happens to

50:09

Blackthorn, was that your worst case scenario of

50:11

trying out a foreign language when visiting? You

50:15

know what I mean? Like, it's hard enough for like

50:17

dopey, ignorant Americans to just like try to order in

50:20

French. You know what I mean? I

50:22

don't think the stakes have ever been quite that high. For

50:25

me, it's resulting in the death of a man.

50:28

He's just like, I meant that sort

50:30

of facetiously. Yeah, I don't think they

50:32

do facetious. Have you

50:35

no comedies, please? I

50:38

have one more thing, which is just this turn at the end from

50:41

the Mother of Dragons there. I

50:43

mean, that was super thronzy of

50:46

another character. But she can do that? I

50:48

have no idea, but... The

50:51

show, that would be funny, Machido was like, you can do that?

50:53

Oh, word? Meemaw, we're like, well, we

50:56

gotta get a fist. We don't have

50:58

a quorum. She's just like, I'm back.

51:00

You guys are all out of jobs. He's just lost

51:02

to the procedural sauce there. The

51:05

show does a remarkably good

51:07

and subtle job of introducing

51:10

characters in a way that makes them memorable and makes

51:12

them distinct. That's not easy on

51:14

any show of the scale, let alone one that's

51:16

primarily in a different language. I'm

51:20

good here. I'm good, I just...

51:22

I'm good, like I'm good. I love

51:24

this show and I'm also good. I

51:27

don't have any critiques of it. I

51:30

like the secret samurai who's playing

51:32

with the pigeons. Oh yeah, he's

51:34

cool. That was cool. That dude is

51:36

just like, I've dedicated my life to you and

51:38

he's like, what you must do is continue to

51:40

be a janitor and also a spy. Also, these

51:42

birds are too moist. A lot

51:45

of... Lately, it was like, that's your fucking call,

51:47

man. Did you feel seen in this episode because

51:49

so much of it was about the proper liquidity

51:53

level of foul? I

51:56

feel like in a way you're being mocked here

51:58

because of your cooking style. Like one

52:00

bird is just drying out. I

52:03

am very self-conscious about how I slurp noodles. I'll tell

52:05

you that. Oh, but you're supposed to

52:07

slurp. I know. I'm very, I don't

52:09

really have a lot of dexterity with chopsticks. But

52:11

you can mask that if you just get really robust.

52:13

Slurped in, slurped up. Yeah, you get real

52:15

slurpy. It's my favorite currency mixtape. Slurped up. Slurped

52:18

up stank on it. Volume 19, DJ Drama. Top Chef.

52:20

First episode of Season 21. Uh,

52:23

great, distant affection for, I've never visited, but

52:25

really like. My

52:46

grandmother's tell me... High Life

52:48

and Cheese, and it looks like a delightful town. It's

52:50

a pretty city. I'm a fan. Great

52:53

idea of, I always really respect where

52:55

Top Chef is like, we're going to go here. Uh,

52:59

Kristin Kish is now... Also, before you get it, just to

53:01

say that like one thing that makes me excited about Milwaukee

53:03

is, you know, when they're like, we are

53:05

honored to be joined by the finest chef

53:07

in Milwaukee, and this guy, Paul Bartolota, and

53:09

he looks like all men looked in 1983.

53:12

Yeah. He looks like everyone, my grandparents ever introduced me

53:14

to. Here's a beautiful table. He... Take

53:17

that around the block and tell me how it

53:19

feels. He looks like the guy at like the

53:21

club in Wilkes-Barre-Pied, who shook my hand, but like

53:23

kind of bent my bones and was like, what's

53:25

the problem? You're

53:28

not laughing? Well,

53:30

you got a strong grip, huh? I,

53:33

it is, it is beautiful. Preserved in

53:35

amber, a vision of American man. So

53:38

previous season Top Chef winner, Kristin Kish,

53:40

who's obviously like basically a food

53:43

celebrity in her own right, has, uh, taken

53:46

the Padma spot of host judge. Gail

53:49

Simmons and Tom Kalikio is still,

53:51

still with us. Thank God. I don't

53:53

really have a comment on Kristin. Okay. What

53:55

I have a comment on is modern. societies

54:00

and says that need to tweak things. Oh,

54:03

okay. I see where you're going. And you've

54:05

been upset about survivor this year. I know.

54:07

So I, I think what

54:09

I'm feeling and what I'm aware of is

54:11

that these are two very dependable, successful shows.

54:14

I imagine if they're in their season 40

54:16

something for survivor and season 21 for top

54:19

chef, so they have

54:21

a built-in steady audience of people who are just like,

54:23

I just like this. Yep. And

54:26

that I understand that I

54:28

feel it would coverage of sports. Like I, I used

54:31

to cover basketball a lot more closely, but like, when we

54:33

redo it, you know, how do we fix the MBA? What

54:35

do they have to do? And

54:37

every year in the NFL, the rule committee, that's a

54:39

really interesting conversation, but then in practice,

54:41

you're like, fuck. Now

54:43

we have 16 minutes between a

54:47

ball being bounced at a warrior's Lakers game on

54:49

Saturday night. And that was like

54:51

a malfunction, but like the constant replays and like getting

54:53

things right and all this other stuff. And then when

54:55

you see the things that they do sort

54:58

of introduce, it's like, Oh, great, now

55:00

we have betting odds like on league pass or whatever.

55:03

Like, I don't know if that's always the

55:05

best way to fix something. Fully legal. That's

55:07

a completely different side state

55:10

of California, different, different laws. But

55:14

when they introduced this

55:16

idea that they were getting

55:19

rid of the elimination child or getting rid

55:21

of quick fires. No, they're not. Well, okay.

55:23

When they introduced the idea that quick fires

55:26

were somehow now no longer linked to elimination,

55:29

no longer giving you immunity, and they

55:32

went straight into an elimination for

55:34

this first episode. And I

55:36

can explain why I think that was, but go on. You

55:38

then had basically 40 minutes

55:41

of sustained cooking, which

55:43

I guess was cool. But with

55:45

20 people cooking or whatever, however many people,

55:48

15, 15 contestants making

55:50

those dishes, I

55:52

think it all kind of, I just glazed over

55:54

a little bit. And I think that there is something

55:57

about classic top chef where it's like, yeah, do a

55:59

quick fire. quick hire gets you the

56:01

immunity for the elimination, the elimination is

56:03

the elimination. I understand why they wanna

56:05

make eliminations feel a

56:07

little bit more tense. Yes. And

56:10

they want everybody, even their best chefs,

56:12

cooking the best stuff for eliminations. But

56:16

there was part of me, also the 90 minute runtime,

56:18

I think I was a little bit like, so there's

56:20

a perfect piece of television in here. I hear you

56:22

and I don't disagree, but just to be devil's advocate

56:24

for a moment, I do think the people who make

56:26

Top Chef think about Top Chef more than you can

56:28

do that. I know that, yeah. They

56:30

are extremely reactive. And I think that can

56:32

be good. And I think

56:35

it can also potentially backfire in that

56:37

the desire to fix problems that they

56:39

are keenly aware of can result in

56:41

the changing of the fundamental product that

56:43

for the casual, that the

56:46

scaffolding means something. Part

56:48

of the appeal of Top Chef year after year

56:50

is that there are similar rhythms and you can

56:52

settle into it and undoing, it just feels like

56:55

fixing it for fixing's sake. I do think going

56:57

forward, it'll be interesting because the lack

56:59

of immunity coming out of quick fire further

57:01

diminishes the importance of the quick fire except

57:04

to be something to do in the first part of

57:06

the episode with a product tie-in. It

57:08

feels less, my concern is it will feel less important.

57:11

Now what they did say is there's a cash prize

57:13

every quick fire now. Yeah, $100,000 over the course of

57:15

the season is

57:18

up for grabs. So that's exciting for the

57:20

contestants. But I agree with you. I think that it

57:22

was hounded by a second decision that

57:25

was made or reaction, which is the

57:27

first episodes are always kind of

57:29

visual gibberish because there are too

57:31

many people. Yeah. And so

57:33

the elimination of the quick fire in the first

57:35

episode, I think served two purposes. One was to

57:38

get to the cooking so we could spend more

57:40

time seeing what the strengths and weaknesses were. It

57:42

also, going back to your first point,

57:46

minimized the Kristen as

57:49

a solo actor in the first episode.

57:52

It made it feel, and I think this was intentional, Kristen

57:55

is there and they talked about it and she did her

57:57

stuff, but Tom and Gail were there at the beginning. And

58:00

the three of them had teams were there throughout

58:02

and I think that was as much about building

58:04

her up in the audience Your mind as it

58:06

was anything else as to the christen of

58:09

it like It's one

58:11

episode We also said when Padma announced

58:13

she was leaving that there really was only one

58:15

obvious choice for this And I think she's going

58:17

to be excellent in this role and I appreciate

58:20

Very much, and I think this is you know, it's

58:22

similar to what they did with Jeopardy We're like the

58:24

person one obvious choice John Blackthorne for the one obvious

58:27

food waste You

58:31

first of all, she's been auditioning that

58:33

guy was like he's like my restaurant is powered

58:35

by food waste I was like have a nice

58:38

have a nice summer clearing out We are you don't

58:40

have a hard out because I need some time to

58:42

talk about that. We're not even there yet I just

58:44

want to say I have a noon our guide go

58:46

ahead and cook our guide the engine Stinky

58:50

bit like cheese good approved.

58:53

I mean he'd be perfect on the show um Chris

58:57

it but the idea of the thing of Jeopardy where it's like the

58:59

person who's been on the house And

59:02

you Cohen speaks to me boom Taro summer Fuji

59:06

the dead assassin's corpse the rotten

59:08

pheasant and the post with

59:10

two promiscuous arrow holes

59:12

shot into it Disgrace in

59:14

London men do two things we

59:17

fight cannons swords guns

59:19

never bows And we attend

59:21

the theater place Two

59:24

men in the theater responding

59:28

the drama the action kissing perhaps lost

59:31

respect to women It's getting Trumpy.

59:33

I should stop. I'm really only doing

59:35

guys laughing. I when you do Blackthorne

59:37

as Trump. I'm leaving It's done. Yeah,

59:39

I'm just gonna go join a different

59:44

Because you just want to listen yeah, yeah, exactly

59:46

Um, I'm gonna go to the other studio and I'm

59:48

gonna be like Kaya pipe me in I just

59:50

want to hear him here more like the urologist office

59:52

next to the couple therapists on the episode of curvy

59:55

enthusiasm Which has outsized importance on this episode?

59:59

Jeopardy also promoted someone who was

1:00:01

a winner, right, into that spot. I think that

1:00:03

makes sense in terms of like respecting the game.

1:00:05

For a second, I thought you meant little like

1:00:07

W winner, like Jeopardy wants winners. Like

1:00:11

45, like just surrounded by, okay, I

1:00:13

see where you're going. You're making it more political. Little

1:00:15

by him. You want to do that? Do

1:00:17

you want to? Who

1:00:21

is the guy who chaining himself when

1:00:23

the Jeopardy is like, executive producer of Jeopardy,

1:00:25

Mike, whatever, who's announced the best host? We

1:00:27

didn't do that to him. We reported on

1:00:29

the situation. You and I did? No,

1:00:31

Claire McNair did. But we are part of the

1:00:34

The Rare Empire. Yeah. Good

1:00:36

for us. Yeah, good work on that, Andy. I think. Didn't

1:00:39

hear my name at the ASCAP, Deems Awards or whatever,

1:00:41

but cool. But

1:00:45

I have to say there was, and this is no

1:00:47

fault of Kristen's or the show, there is kind

1:00:50

of a celebrity vacuum at the

1:00:52

top because Padma's thing

1:00:54

was so consistent as

1:00:56

like she is this, you know, she almost

1:00:58

like comes down from on high to like taste

1:01:00

their silly food and everyone's intimidated by her. It's

1:01:02

a different energy, which I think they're going to

1:01:04

steer into, right? Yeah. Where Kristen

1:01:06

can be like, hey, you're messing up here. Hey, I

1:01:09

got eliminated. I was cooking from that place. I thought

1:01:11

also Kristen being like, I'm basically freaking out on their

1:01:13

behalf was an effective like Padma

1:01:15

for as much as I love Taba, was

1:01:18

sometimes almost like these silly

1:01:20

little guys cooking their hearts out, you know?

1:01:22

Which was honestly kind of a cool energy

1:01:24

because it made them, it

1:01:26

brought out a different kind of psychological electricity,

1:01:29

but we'll see how that is going forward. I think they

1:01:31

made the right choice. What I was

1:01:33

also struck by in this episode was

1:01:36

it has been years since we've had

1:01:38

a villain edit. It has been years

1:01:40

since we've had someone as just straight

1:01:42

up buffoony as

1:01:45

that guy, David was. Yeah, but he

1:01:47

was the differences that that guy, David would have been like,

1:01:49

I'm here to fuck shit up and get

1:01:51

on this season for 10 episodes. And now

1:01:53

he's out in 40 minutes. And had to. I

1:01:56

mean, that was honestly, it was a

1:01:58

disgraceful performance. Yeah, I don't

1:02:00

like Tom your hats look stupid. I don't

1:02:02

do pasta. Yeah, I have no plan here

1:02:05

I just poured two green sauces on top

1:02:07

of each other and he's like awful. Yeah,

1:02:09

any shocked. He's like wow That's really

1:02:11

not I mean it is

1:02:13

the most in the worst sense

1:02:15

San Francisco thing I've ever seen if you Google this

1:02:17

guy's whole whole thing like food waste is

1:02:20

an issue in the world But being like we make

1:02:22

pizzas that aren't really pizzas cuz I don't like pizza

1:02:25

Chicken hearts on it and I

1:02:27

harvested these bruised plums. Yeah, okay.

1:02:30

Okay Ashley Shafer calm down It

1:02:33

was it was absurd. I'm like I'm

1:02:36

super concerned about food waste But

1:02:39

I love cutting the hearts out of a chicken who's

1:02:41

gonna use the rest of this chicken. There

1:02:43

will be a great stench The

1:02:46

chickens will age in Milwaukee's

1:02:48

air River air makes

1:02:51

the moist. I'm Ryan Braun for slick

1:02:53

use Like

1:02:56

that first Milwaukee factory That's the only one you

1:02:58

had. Yes, but my question is and this is

1:03:00

a broader question. Kaya. Do you watch Top Chef?

1:03:02

I forget that. Does that fall into your Bravo?

1:03:04

Oh, yeah. Okay, I didn't watch this first

1:03:06

episode yet But oh, well, I want your

1:03:08

because I'm below deck shame house Reunion.

1:03:11

Yeah, she has girls trip Points

1:03:17

on that package the question I

1:03:19

want to have I want to ask you

1:03:22

as our youth correspondent Yes on the podcast

1:03:24

is I did feel another generational shift in

1:03:27

these contestants and

1:03:29

well I mean I I felt the generational shift when

1:03:31

the guy who's 45 is like I am by far

1:03:34

the oldest man who has ever My

1:03:36

joints are aching. How will I make 14

1:03:38

more? Is that true 45? No,

1:03:41

I don't know. He's every like I'm old and then

1:03:43

there was like another woman who was in her 40s

1:03:45

who looked like she was Honestly

1:03:47

at 20 but I but I'm saying so

1:03:49

there was a definite shift from that more

1:03:51

aggressive reality show But also aggressive kitchen politics

1:03:54

energy of the early seasons to something that

1:03:56

we were really digging in the last few

1:03:58

years Which was fun Community aspect of

1:04:01

it. But also I think

1:04:03

a lot of this was, and we've talked to

1:04:05

Gail on the podcast a few times and she's

1:04:07

reinforced this, that when Gail and Padma took on

1:04:09

more of a voice in steering the show, the

1:04:11

show really started to cast

1:04:13

with more thoughtfulness about foodways

1:04:15

and cultural differences, class differences, etc.

1:04:17

And that's still going on. But this

1:04:20

generational shift, it's the guy who you'll

1:04:22

see, who's just like, they

1:04:24

wrote about me on Eater's TikTok because I've

1:04:26

got a restaurant that is painted bright yellow

1:04:28

and my partner and I go dumpster diving

1:04:30

at the green market. We hate pizza, but

1:04:32

there's one on every table. So we're not

1:04:34

going for like James Beards anymore. We're going

1:04:36

for like spiral on TikTok. I actually thought

1:04:39

this episode had a little bit of an edge.

1:04:41

Like you said, the villain edit, yes, they got him

1:04:43

out. But one thing that happens in this episode is

1:04:46

not giving anything away. And I know that we move

1:04:48

even. Thank you so

1:04:50

much. But they come out

1:04:52

and they're like, everybody who's gotten a James Beard nomination,

1:04:54

raise your hand. Oh, I think everybody

1:04:56

who's worked in a Michelin star, and most people,

1:04:58

I would say like 65% of the people are

1:05:00

either worked in a Michelin star restaurant or got

1:05:02

nominated for James Beard. And then

1:05:05

there's like the seven of them who haven't.

1:05:07

And Kristen's like, I didn't either. She's like, they

1:05:09

hungry, my friend. And she was just like, it doesn't

1:05:11

matter. But I thought it had

1:05:13

a little bit of

1:05:15

a like haves and have nots, a little

1:05:17

bit of like competitive energy that previous seasons

1:05:20

maybe were like, we're just so fucking excited

1:05:22

to be able to make this because of

1:05:24

COVID. I agree with you. I

1:05:26

also think that there was a feeling I want to have

1:05:28

these all stars back in this legacy

1:05:30

of cooking. But also maybe

1:05:32

what we're responding to is there's a little bit

1:05:34

of anarchic feeling because not only are they in

1:05:36

a town in a region that they've never been

1:05:38

in. So there's a very different sense

1:05:40

of like, who's just gonna like Daniel Balud is not just

1:05:43

going to suddenly be the guest chef in episode two. They're

1:05:45

in the Midwest and that's going to pull a

1:05:47

different talent pool. But also the lack of Padma,

1:05:50

it feels a little bit like maybe

1:05:52

inmates running the asylum a little bit like

1:05:54

when Pat when the established Emmy

1:05:56

nominated every year trio is standing in front of the chefs. The chef

1:05:58

seemed a little bit of a mess. When

1:06:00

Kristen is there as the anchor and

1:06:03

they're like, well, that could be me. Oh, and they're making

1:06:05

fun of Tom's hats. And maybe that was true. They were

1:06:07

letting, got a little rest of it, felt a little bit

1:06:10

state of the union post you lie. You

1:06:12

know what I mean? That we

1:06:14

used to have some structure in this country. I

1:06:16

think you're feeling some natural resistance. This

1:06:19

is sort of like the bachelor just

1:06:21

switched hosts after decades

1:06:23

of Chris Harrison. And what happened to Chris Harrison?

1:06:25

I didn't notice. We're at like 55,

1:06:27

so I'll save that for another time. The

1:06:31

oldest Top Chef contestant? No,

1:06:35

I mean 55 minutes of

1:06:37

the podcast. And they replaced him

1:06:39

with Jesse Palmer, who admittedly is almost

1:06:41

exactly like Chris Harrison. And I

1:06:44

was a resistant at first, but Jesse Palmer is

1:06:46

actually, yeah, he's pretty great. And he has a

1:06:48

lot of qualities that Chris Harrison is lacking. Change is

1:06:50

good. Change is hard. It's hard, but

1:06:52

I think it is ultimately good for

1:06:55

as is these generational things we're pointing out

1:06:57

as is potentially rule changes. I

1:06:59

think that they they were faced with

1:07:02

a choice because not just Padma leaving,

1:07:04

but 20 seasons accomplishing a post COVID

1:07:06

season across Europe, getting all those

1:07:08

champions and things like having it go as well as it

1:07:11

did, even from like a, I don't want to spoil the season. But

1:07:13

I feel like they couldn't have been happier about how

1:07:15

that season ended last year. You're

1:07:18

faced with two things like are we just going to

1:07:20

try to run it back with scraps of what we

1:07:22

have left or are they going to try to? Yeah,

1:07:24

I'm not. I'm sure I will get used to the

1:07:26

different relationship between quick fires and laminations. I was just

1:07:28

saying that between I think that last season was also

1:07:31

90 minutes. What

1:07:33

they've been doing for the last few years

1:07:35

is super sizing some episodes. Right. And

1:07:38

but it was not they were not all standard.

1:07:40

So it winds up being about 55 minutes of

1:07:42

actual screen time once you get down to it.

1:07:46

But I was just saying that there's a part of

1:07:48

me. It's not even like I'm a traditionalist. It's

1:07:50

like I think baseball was improved by rule changes.

1:07:52

Like things can. Oh, I think things can work.

1:07:54

But I was just saying I was

1:07:56

like I liked the idea that even

1:07:59

though sometimes quick fires. were stupid and it

1:08:01

was like Hershey's Kisses brought to you by

1:08:03

minions and the Ford Company like it

1:08:06

at least had a relationship to the end

1:08:08

of the episode to the it was a continuum.

1:08:10

I will say the jury is out on

1:08:12

the depowering of the quick fire. I

1:08:14

do think if the quick fire really just becomes

1:08:16

a game show like you can win $10,000 and

1:08:18

also get taxes on that

1:08:22

to the new millions pay taxes on that in Wisconsin

1:08:24

and in your home state. Great

1:08:27

question. And do you guys have LLCs? Right.

1:08:29

You don't have to. That if it's just yeah and

1:08:37

then you go to the minions premiere or whatever that

1:08:39

I'm less interested in that and that detaches especially in

1:08:41

a longer episode the importance of the first part from

1:08:43

the second part. The part that you didn't mention that

1:08:45

I think is intriguing and I'm looking forward to seeing

1:08:47

in practice is immunity does come with an elimination win

1:08:50

which could absolutely upend

1:08:53

one of the more interesting and

1:08:55

occasionally unsettling aspects

1:08:57

of Top Chef which is that it

1:09:00

really is on any given week and

1:09:02

you could be dominating and you could

1:09:04

win three eliminations in a row. You

1:09:06

have one off week and you're gone.

1:09:08

Yeah. And that has I think

1:09:11

over 20 seasons I think we've emerged with a consensus

1:09:13

that like the winner real winners

1:09:15

don't slip up. Right. That's what you have to do.

1:09:18

But I think that is actually I mean I would

1:09:20

say honestly that's been kind of

1:09:22

a problem on Survivor is that the

1:09:25

good players get weeded out too fast and

1:09:27

get identified too fast as targets. Because

1:09:30

you obviously can't like cook against someone in that

1:09:32

way or just it ultimately is

1:09:34

like but you know that's interesting

1:09:36

but I'll keep an eye out for that. But I think

1:09:38

that the thing that the episode did that was clever

1:09:41

and again it's a clever edit they took advantage of

1:09:43

what actually happened is that you had the

1:09:45

two people the person who won the episode and

1:09:47

the person who lost the episode

1:09:50

both of them began the episode the elimination

1:09:52

by saying I don't really do this. Yeah.

1:09:55

And real winners figure

1:09:57

out they find a way real winners push through they find a

1:09:59

way. Yeah, you know did you want to

1:10:01

say anything about x-men 97 before we

1:10:04

go? Oh Maybe we should

1:10:06

just save it. We'll just save it I don't know.

1:10:08

I mean, I didn't know I don't think either of us had a lot to say

1:10:10

of like Finally, we can

1:10:12

find out what happened Generational

1:10:14

blind spot for me, but I also like

1:10:17

so I've watched the

1:10:19

old cartoon before and I like

1:10:21

it But I like it Like

1:10:24

it's like it's this is the living embodiment of

1:10:26

the steeper semi. How's it going fellow kids? I

1:10:29

saw a cartoon I liked it

1:10:32

So they just draw everybody Okay

1:10:35

Thanks, Akaya. You just you like it cuz you're

1:10:37

a big gambit Bishop guy like you like the

1:10:39

gambit Little afterwards you want to say to me

1:10:42

before I go you leave the podcast before I get on

1:10:44

my plane. Oh, I forgot Wow,

1:10:48

well Chris You

1:10:50

know, we've had a good run. Yeah, it's almost 28

1:10:52

years young Well,

1:10:55

I'm glad we're leaving with you peaking. I think like

1:10:57

I'm leaving I feel like I finally have prepared you

1:10:59

for success The

1:11:02

longest mentorship But

1:11:05

I appreciate that I think you're gonna be fine Uh-huh,

1:11:07

I also think wasn't didn't the door fly off but

1:11:09

nobody else flew out, right? They just had a good

1:11:11

view They've just I feel like there's been a lot

1:11:13

of Content about other things

1:11:15

going wrong with them. Mmm and like

1:11:17

every day I my whole thing

1:11:20

is like would this not be the safest time to

1:11:22

take one of those planes because they've much Oh, you're

1:11:24

not and they're paying a lot of things all the

1:11:26

screws But it it

1:11:28

increasingly just keeps getting dark over there man. Yeah

1:11:31

over at the airplane factory. Yeah. Yeah,

1:11:33

I Believe first

1:11:35

of I believe in you you are on record

1:11:38

as being a very confident flyer You

1:11:40

know, you're on we made just that you're

1:11:42

unflappable You get that first cold

1:11:45

Heineken in you do I'm it's not a long flight where

1:11:47

you're going is it like two hours Change

1:11:50

two hours, but you don't have to go to LAX. Nope Yeah

1:11:55

Why are you even complaining I had like if they were like

1:11:57

you can fly to London in a hot air balloon If

1:12:00

that leaves some Burbank, I'd probably do it. Like,

1:12:03

if you, Sully will

1:12:05

come to your door and fly you on the plane

1:12:07

that landed in the river. Jules

1:12:09

Verne picked you up at

1:12:12

Burbank. Kaya, thanks. Kaya,

1:12:15

you're gonna check in on Pop

1:12:17

Chef for us, right? And Shame House. And

1:12:20

Shame House. Can we cast Shame House for next

1:12:22

week? You just did. Well, I feel

1:12:24

like there's some other people that could get in Shame House. But do you

1:12:26

want it to be like Tom Sandoval or do you

1:12:28

want it to be like? I don't understand that at all.

1:12:30

I don't know what that scandal is. Do you want it

1:12:32

to be like Lily Taylor from Manhunt? Because?

1:12:36

Mary Todd. She's not shameful, but

1:12:38

I'm just like trying to figure out people who- Do you

1:12:40

think she did it? Like, what are you? Did

1:12:42

something change in episode three of Manhunt?

1:12:44

She is often portrayed rather hysterically. Mary

1:12:47

Todd. There's no shame in that. I know that. I mean, she's

1:12:49

trying to see your husband get his head blown off while you're

1:12:52

watching a play. But- At a play? Highest

1:12:54

form of culture. Uh,

1:12:58

no, I was thinking like, like, Christine Noem. You know

1:13:00

what? I feel like you can't let go of

1:13:02

me. Like, I'm trying to end the pod. I'm sad now. And you're

1:13:04

like, oh no. Just pod forever. My guy. It's

1:13:06

been a pleasure. Been a pleasure.

1:13:08

You'll be fine. Dead somewhere over Eureka, California. I'll

1:13:10

talk to you. Is

1:13:13

Eureka California? Yeah. I

1:13:15

guess you're about to find out. See

1:13:17

you Monday.