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If that Was the category, it would be America. America's

1:57

doing that. People Love to laugh with that guy.

2:00

Meet you know the moment, American speech

2:02

and your voice brothers appreciate the agree

2:04

more. Great to see You've been so

2:06

accommodating to me today as a bit

2:08

of of scheduling highjinks. I was on

2:10

the big picture today and said epic

2:12

out. Agree with that. A. I

2:14

was a rare occurrence rate. Images are not

2:17

like I'm I'm something of a I.dabble. in

2:19

third. cheered him over there. Ah Etti, how

2:21

are you. I'm great. They said

2:23

it couldn't be done. This podcast greeted. By

2:26

don't know it's a it was alone or

2:28

points for tie. I wondered whether it could

2:30

be done but here we are it's saw

2:32

a little bit later than usual get we

2:34

are here on a Monday to they were

2:36

going to be talking about synthesizer episode one

2:38

which aired on On the Max last night

2:40

as well as Fall Out. The

2:42

entire season is upon Amazon. You didn't crash that I

2:44

did not, I did not cross. Wow and embarassing. I

2:46

was gonna ask you a couple things in that. Stuff.

2:49

In the news or without it. I'm.

2:52

Ready! I'm so. Into content

2:54

these days I would ask you the big question

2:56

that had a voice or middle of the pod

2:58

it I asked up top. Okay

3:00

Emmy to be clear, I want everyone to know I

3:02

don't know your order. I come in cold. Yeah you

3:04

know we do news and and we do shows. So

3:07

it's always been. Wilson us we

3:09

chat about lights, parking, diane present, outer

3:11

and inner stuff now that he ruined

3:13

article are still running from. Here

3:17

so good sign that is deafening. Would

3:19

if I engaged and entire Pr teams

3:21

as a reserve. He said that he

3:23

did he get attacked slugger it. See.

3:26

Ours pr. Would be an hour

3:29

and a man it's sitting right there

3:31

are over there. Ah ah Eddie. Currently

3:34

on screens. Ah, right now. Okay,

3:37

Ripley. Yep on Netflix. All.

3:39

Of that show gone effects, Synthesizer.

3:44

Episode One. I just thought

3:46

as we ended the episode last night, as nice as

3:48

I was wrapping up the sympathizer. One.

3:51

Is the last time. We. Had three shows

3:53

this good on at the same time. Oh.

3:55

I thought your question was gonna be what is

3:58

less time you spoke this many other languages. I

4:01

know well we'll get to as we talk

4:03

to other shows. When you watch this much

4:05

television as many of our listeners do, your

4:07

brain become so tv pill The Us are

4:10

predicting plots and mixing up. Side.

4:12

Characters and like over reading intention when cut

4:14

a ways to side characters and stuff. I

4:16

thought you were going to say just how

4:18

many shows in general because some of us

4:20

are still watching Sugar as well. But. I

4:23

guess. I.

4:25

Had has the hard as a lonely hunter are

4:27

now under their arms retex for he shot me

4:29

on Friday. Really? Dislike. Our server.

4:31

Whatever. Three, I need someone to talk to better

4:34

my going up sir. Gone on. Another Pablo who's

4:36

you? weren't you do any grew up I guess

4:38

a lot Street Okay you I talk about that.

4:40

Assess assess the only gets a little bitterness. The

4:42

reason why I know I have ah the a

4:44

degree while pods as a sudden the fact that

4:46

I received stance businessman subscriber and I is that

4:49

I actually went back through Watch archives. This is

4:51

quietly if there was ever a time when you

4:53

and I realize. We've. Got

4:55

three. Shows that if you

4:57

told me like the year ended tomorrow, I will

4:59

be fine with those three. And a

5:01

grain of is that early early returns of

5:04

a supervisor by I would be more than

5:06

happy. To. Have those three and some order

5:08

at the top of my list out. see nothing Reiser

5:10

Mrs. Smith in Turkey of I saw the other things

5:12

I've Rights and This Earth but. I am

5:14

just like. What? A time to

5:16

be Allowed in the archives. You found that the

5:18

third episode of The Watch was the debut of

5:20

your show. With. Trevor Noah. And

5:23

I came in high was tell you guys this

5:25

I didn't. React. When

5:28

rinse it was just cook it up some

5:30

some really incredible stuff. I wasn't to I

5:32

was so I was a New York was

5:34

going in the air wolf. oh that's right

5:36

Trevor Noah Broad City I had our guy

5:38

com feral I'd like I'd time as before

5:40

I came here anyway. The. Answer your question.

5:42

It's been a long time. It's been a long time

5:44

since we said this. many. Big. Shows

5:46

dense shows airing at the same time that

5:48

you could say rip Lead it's been airing

5:50

for, you know it's over. but I did.

5:53

If anybody watches it in my kind of

5:55

a piecemeal way like we are. It's

5:58

it's. just like were criticism. Bomb

6:00

or awesome. it's the filmmaking a mean

6:02

to interrupt you but Turkey's are. It's

6:04

three shows that are seriously composed and

6:06

considered and you cannot. Fold.

6:08

Laundry Eyes with joke last week that

6:10

the piles are. Really? Starting to

6:12

add up my ways. They're everywhere. So

6:15

for that you watching Tv before twenty seven my.

6:19

Head off so I get all my lights

6:21

and replacing. Know that assertive ah before we

6:23

get to this of the guys are before

6:26

we we talk more about that I did

6:28

what? Ask about yet another show young that

6:30

jumped into the phrase it admin and know

6:32

I do want to talk about that That

6:34

okay I as I was getting ready to

6:36

go to a Masters viewing party on Sunday

6:39

my whites, where are they. Go

6:42

on. His

6:45

views You see this Ah ha ha.

6:48

I saw that Blurry was making

6:50

quite an impact on my social

6:53

media timelines. Okay, and I hit

6:55

you up. at i a

6:57

bit wire the streets talking about bloody it

6:59

was just like Rick Ross and bluey where

7:01

the to dominant seems of my for youtube

7:03

seems like those of us for me as

7:06

i think they would displace as. I.

7:09

Said you know what's going on and I'd you said

7:11

what? Okay, so I feel like there's

7:13

a couple mom instance in that instance that are very well

7:15

versed in this. But for those of you who are not

7:17

people, know that blue he is. One. Of the

7:20

finest achievements in the history of the media and by

7:22

far the best. I would say best children show. Ever.

7:25

And as as many blue checks and procreated,

7:27

I feel like we're a lot of blue.

7:29

he tweets now. That's my,

7:31

that's my take. Well so the way

7:34

that the show has been parceled out

7:36

in the past, there there are three

7:38

seasons. On. Every episode of the

7:40

show is written by former The Watch guests.

7:42

once. How much? Guess Job Rum? And.

7:45

The. Seasons are have like fifty two episodes each

7:48

of seven minutes long episodes. and they did

7:50

you first in Australia than a sort of

7:52

migrate around the globe like. Is Nice

7:54

Park Bbc partners this third season. The first

7:56

half of the episodes came out a year

7:58

ago. Almost then he drops and when he

8:00

works for twenty six of them. Basically

8:03

okay. Then there were. So then is a bright

8:05

of the number up to like forty seven forty

8:07

eight. And then there was an announcement that was

8:09

in. There was a lot of hubbub like what's

8:11

going on, are they making a season for I?

8:13

wouldn't we know about it When they're be a

8:15

plan in place. And. I'll say that

8:17

like. I think that is

8:19

extremely rare, if not completely unique

8:22

for a franchise this popular around

8:24

the world. I saw some. Some.

8:27

Like financial analyst was like the Bluey brand

8:29

is worth two billion dollar. The I saw

8:31

that for all of this to be in

8:33

the hands of one guy, I saw that

8:36

Instant video services as well. But regardless of

8:38

like the actual number like usually when game

8:40

eating a bowl of ground beef specific it's

8:43

nothing is more valuable in this world. The

8:45

pure protein and blurring of the deliver kings

8:47

take. It

8:51

is very rare for something this. Financially.

8:54

Enormous to be in the bespoke hands

8:56

of one guy in his mates in

8:58

their studio in Brisbane. Disney would like

9:00

a lot more of this content. What?

9:03

Makes it special is that it's not made that way.

9:06

So it was. Of interesting that there

9:09

was a lot of quiet about a season for and

9:11

then it was announced that one new episode is going

9:13

to debut last week. concurrently.

9:15

Around the world. Followed by.

9:18

A. Twenty. Eight minute episode

9:20

which is four times the length of an

9:22

average Blue episode and that was going to

9:24

debut. Globally. At the same

9:26

time on Sunday which had people. Really?

9:29

I was in say had the wags which is not

9:31

about tales. Really? You.

9:33

Know chattering about with this could mean

9:35

is this a finale? Is this a

9:37

test run for movie? What's significant event

9:40

is coming and out. I won't spoil

9:42

everything completely or I guess why we

9:44

think there is. Even does Blue even

9:46

have endgame? it it like early. just

9:48

like seven minutes of a guide dog

9:50

right? That is the saddest

9:52

thing. You've. Ever Says and

9:54

twelve years of this podcast. One

9:58

day you and your fifteen year old war. Frank.

10:00

We'll sit down. Well,

10:02

he'll be tired. We immediately go to Fight

10:04

Club. We immediately start watching it or having

10:07

one. That's

10:09

how I choose my wardrobe. Okay. Who wins.

10:11

Who ever bests me? Wow.

10:16

CRPR is going to be working triple time this week

10:18

to clean up the mess from this episode. What's

10:21

beautiful about the show is that yes,

10:23

it is essentially status quo of the

10:25

life of the healer family, but there

10:27

are little filigrees

10:30

in the margins about the adult's lives as

10:32

well and the passage of time. And it

10:34

does not shy away from bigger ideas and

10:37

issues. And so there was a sense

10:39

that they were going to try to do

10:41

something larger. You know, and when

10:43

I say bigger issues, it's like, are

10:45

Bluey and Bingo going to have separate bedrooms?

10:47

Like, are we things like that? The

10:51

end, the, the, I

10:53

don't want to say ultimate penultimate, but at least for

10:55

now, penultimate episode that debuted last week was

10:57

very typical in a lot of ways where Bingo

10:59

and Blue are playing a game that involves their

11:01

parents. And, but at the end and their, their

11:05

dad is pretending to be a realtor showing the

11:07

house to a potential buyer. And the girls are

11:09

being their alter ego characters. So these grannies were

11:11

messing everything up. It's very funny, very clever. The

11:13

end of the episode, you see that the house

11:15

is actually for sale. And this

11:17

was a seismic, seismic thing. And what's

11:20

the, what's the market like where these

11:22

guys live in Brisbane? Robust. Yeah. It

11:24

is. This house is. Are there,

11:27

are people like waving inspections and stuff? This

11:29

is the nicest house any of us will

11:31

ever see in our life. So this animated

11:34

house in the beautiful tropical climate of coastal

11:36

Australia. And so this,

11:38

this last episode, the 28 minute episode, the title

11:40

had been announced ahead of time. It was the

11:42

sign. So everyone's like, oh, okay. So now we're

11:44

really dealing with it. They're moving. But also it's

11:46

at 28 minutes. What's left for them

11:48

to talk about. And some people correctly pointed out, and

11:50

Chris, you're gonna, you're gonna be on me for this. Obviously,

11:53

their babies, the girls,

11:56

former babysitter frisky is engaged to

11:58

their uncle, Rad, Rad. And

12:00

so there was a wedding and they were

12:02

right about that as well Okay People who

12:04

don't know what I'm talking about who like Colin

12:06

from accounts the guy Patrick Bramble voices uncle cool

12:08

and Claudia O'Dowherty who does she's in the

12:11

killing it is that what the name of the show is the Craig

12:13

Robinson show She does the voice frisky.

12:15

Anyway, this episode was I

12:18

Want to kind of shout out my children? I

12:22

Want to shout them out because that did they

12:24

wake up early and watch this without me? Yes.

12:27

Yeah Did they spoil it for

12:29

me? No, did they know it was coming was it

12:31

was on the streets that this was happening? Oh, yeah,

12:33

okay. They were dialed in the forums, but they didn't

12:36

get a Chan was all over it. Thanks, buddy

12:40

They They they

12:43

waited to watch with me. Okay watch it. And so if you

12:45

didn't I thought they got it What are they they they watched

12:47

it without me did not spoil it and

12:49

watched it again with me. Okay What

12:52

was interesting about my experience? I feel like I'm gonna

12:54

zag in a way They were like dad.

12:56

You're gonna cry. You're gonna cry dad. You're gonna cry. I

13:00

Didn't cry. Okay so

13:04

The episode is beautiful and I think that if Absolutely

13:07

might be the end it could be a finale It

13:10

also could be and I think likely is a

13:12

dry run for a movie or for some longer

13:14

form Storytelling that maybe they want to try to

13:16

do in the future. There's room for that Like

13:20

everything the show does it is it's like hilarious. It's

13:22

beautiful It's amazing if you don't have kids even though

13:25

I'm talking about you should watch this I provided do

13:27

I have to watch? 342 episodes of

13:29

blue. Oh, you'll want to but I provided a

13:31

top 10 list of the best ones to watch

13:33

in the past Anyway,

13:37

it's message of like we don't

13:39

know what the future is gonna be bad or good, but

13:41

like we'll see is really great At

13:44

the end of the episode Chris It

13:47

links it walks them to the

13:49

edge of moving In fact all their stuff moves out they

13:51

get in the car and the girls are really upset and

13:53

chilly The mom is upset, but they're moving to a new

13:55

city because dad got a better job in

13:59

podcasting going to be the new third chair. Big

14:02

picture. Sorry, you had to find out this way. And

14:04

but then a series

14:07

of like things that have been set in motion in the

14:09

background, mirroring this idea of like, we don't know what fate

14:11

will bring, if it's good or bad, leads

14:13

to the potential buyers seeing another house that

14:15

they wanted all coming apart. And then in

14:18

a wordless montage, bandit, the dad gets the

14:20

call, rips the sold sign off the for

14:22

sale sign and then rips the for sale sign out of

14:24

the ground. So he tackles him with

14:26

happiness. And then the family is back in their

14:28

house, man, eating, take

14:30

away fish and chips before

14:33

the furniture gets put back in. No. And here's

14:35

my thing. I don't know what this says about

14:37

me. Where you care a lot about escrow rules.

14:41

No, I I've advised you in the past, you could

14:43

back out any time. I buy

14:46

properties constantly. Yeah, it just to fuck

14:48

with people. No, I was and

14:50

I wonder where this is the moment when the

14:52

show diverges from its purpose as a kids show

14:54

to like adults are digging it to our parents

14:56

are being seen by it. But I kind

14:58

of was wondering, like, the show is running

15:00

into something that happens to a lot of people

15:02

like kids lives are upended, they move. And

15:05

then our kids are all going to be like, well,

15:07

at the last second, this all might work out my

15:09

way. And we won't have to do it. The show

15:11

flinch. And a lot of people seem to be

15:13

like the show's a masterpiece. I wept. And then in the interviews with

15:15

the creators, they're like, you know, we couldn't

15:17

do that. Like this, this place, this home means

15:19

so much to so many people. And even to

15:22

us creatively, like we couldn't actually do it. And

15:25

I'm like, you manipulative, little manipulative. This

15:27

is what you're thinking, too. Yeah, you know, it's

15:29

like we got you and I are two grown

15:31

men who got really upset about Chewbacca not getting

15:33

killed. You know, it's like if you're gonna if

15:35

you're gonna put your cards out with

15:37

furry friends. Yeah, like take the leap.

15:39

Take the big swing. Yeah, I

15:42

don't know. So I was interested in my

15:44

response in a way that I will be

15:46

processing therapy for quite some time. But it

15:48

was you show like your kids wanting you

15:50

to cry. Did you give that

15:52

to them in some sort of fake way? Or

15:54

were you? No, I would never show weakness. Right.

15:56

In front of an adult. No, back out of

15:58

a deal. Your

16:01

words your bond in this life girls. No,

16:03

I think they were I Mean

16:06

they were they were very they were very happy

16:08

because both they wanted the the

16:10

fictional girls to be happy But also they were like,

16:13

I mean their real estate junkies They've moved from

16:15

the hot spot of New York to Los Angeles. They were

16:17

like you don't give up a house like that It has

16:19

great bones. They really were

16:21

weirdly real estate focused They were

16:23

like nothing is gonna be as nice as that house. Yeah,

16:25

it's a great yard. The uncle their uncle just got married

16:27

in it So I don't

16:29

know. It was a huge deal for those of

16:31

us. I mean something was a huge deal globally

16:34

It was yeah, this is this one of the

16:36

two biggest streaming series in the world.

16:38

I think The only other thing I

16:40

wanted to talk to you about the other is the gold Was

16:46

Sorry alive. I want to talk

16:48

about this which we I made a joke to you

16:50

about it Just because you know, I my my my

16:52

way of watching Saturday Live now is primarily through YouTube

16:54

the next day but you watch it more than I

16:56

realized because when I I brought it to you like

16:58

I chuck something out and I Really

17:01

want to talk about you I don't want

17:03

the entirety of the show, but I think

17:05

I did via YouTube. So I watched the

17:08

monologue I watched the papyrus sequel with Gosling.

17:10

I watched The beavis

17:12

and butt-head sketch, which was very funny. Did you

17:14

watch the aliens? I did opening Yeah, I watched

17:16

the the guy who's whispering about how he needs

17:18

to leave his wife or his fiance Did you

17:21

watch the digital short of the country song? I

17:23

did I did so did you set the theme

17:25

or is it 11 30 p.m? You fired it

17:27

up. No, I peacock did okay. Okay, but I

17:29

did it because America's Canadian

17:31

sweetheart Ryan Gosling was the host and

17:36

First of all, I it's I had forgotten

17:38

that as recently as I guess I

17:40

think it now it's ten years ago But we did

17:42

a big SNL bracket at Grantland and we were all

17:44

participated in this like the greatest cast member And I

17:47

was reading this this two pieces I wrote for that

17:49

thing and I was like, well we really were still

17:51

kind of you and I mean I know America is

17:53

still watching Saturday grappling every now But like as a

17:55

institution and I've been away from it for a very

17:57

long time and I was struck by things

18:00

one how with the right host

18:03

the show just slates

18:05

like it still works and everything about it

18:07

was was bright it was funny like everyone

18:09

was really excited about him clearly he was

18:11

making everybody laugh it brought out the best

18:13

in people and and then like Caitlin Clark

18:15

drops by I think they've had two straight

18:17

episodes of like a dizzying amount of like

18:19

because the Kristen Wiig episode yeah I was

18:21

like tons of people were on okay McKinnon

18:23

came back yeah and came again I was

18:25

on this one Gosling it's a separate conversation

18:28

but like is it the SNL-ing of everything

18:30

or is it the Coachella of everything that

18:32

now it's really all about who you bring

18:34

out that's a really good point less

18:36

about what your your baseline

18:38

is but I was interested

18:40

in both like man this still

18:42

works when it works but also I wondered if

18:44

there was a counter argument to

18:46

be made which is watching SNL that

18:48

very limited sample size but it

18:51

appears to that they appear to have no stars

18:53

in the cast at this moment it feels like

18:56

a transitional quiet like repertory thing which

18:58

might be great then when you have Ryan Gosling drop

19:00

in yeah but in a week when and obviously they'll

19:02

never do this again but if it's like a Justin

19:05

Bieber hosting the show would be probably

19:07

be a mess like this week there were no

19:09

political impersonations because they just had there anything happening

19:11

in politics this week no everything's fine everything

19:14

is fine but not even just a

19:16

political thing but like you know the go-to and they didn't

19:18

have you know for decades when they don't have a lot

19:20

going on they're like well what impersonations do you do we'll

19:22

do a game show yeah you know they didn't need to

19:24

do it well and then say also with Gosling because he's

19:27

been on a couple times it's been so successful in the

19:29

past they had like some sequels you know they did and

19:31

they lived up to the I thought it was very funny

19:33

I was gonna ask you whether

19:35

where you fall on the like breaking or

19:37

not breaking pro are you pro breaking in

19:39

a sketch I think that it can be

19:42

gratuitous like in the Fallon days

19:44

but he was also in a hot tub with Will Ferrell yeah

19:46

I don't understand how you're supposed to be better than that I

19:49

think it can be a bit much but again

19:51

the thing that makes it so special always is

19:53

the unpredictability in the live part of it and

19:56

it just Heidi Gardner cracking up when she finally

19:58

turns around the guy dresses but head

20:00

is fucking amazing. It might end up

20:02

being like the most iconic break since

20:04

Cowbell. You know, like it's just too

20:06

much. Yeah. But that's what makes

20:08

the show great. It's infectious. You know, he's,

20:11

he really is a magical unicorn. Anything

20:13

else from this weekend that you just like saying, seems

20:15

like you were getting a lot of screen time. Well,

20:17

Kaya, do you have any SNL opinions as a coming

20:20

at it from a different generational perspective than we are? Do

20:22

you, is it something that you check for? I

20:25

would say I rarely, if ever, watch

20:27

full episodes of SNL. I think if

20:29

there's a skit that's going like particularly

20:32

viral, I'll try to seek that out.

20:34

Like the one that happened this weekend. I haven't watched it

20:36

yet, but it'd be incredible. But

20:40

is there anyone in your even peripheral paying

20:42

attention to the show who you're like, Oh,

20:45

Punky Johnson got to tune in. Like there's someone or

20:47

Andrew just mukes. That's my guy. Like,

20:49

is there anyone in this cast? I'm not saying there are

20:51

people who are very solid who filling out all

20:53

the, I don't know. I don't know if anyone

20:56

who I'm like, I can't wait for this person to

20:58

start making movies, but I also just, I watch the

21:00

show and like the way Kaya is describing it's like

21:03

basically part of my social media. Maybe like Bo and

21:05

Yang. Yeah. I guess he's, he pops the

21:07

most, but he also like, there were

21:09

a couple of sketches where Gosling is the

21:11

star and then it's, um, it's Heidi Gardner. It's

21:13

Bo and Yang. It's Mikey Day. Like

21:15

I recognize these people. They're talented and they're really good

21:18

supporting in the sense of like

21:20

in a comic, they are supporting the sketch.

21:22

The guy who did, he was the guy

21:24

yelling in Dumanji sketch and then he's the

21:26

one that Gosling is whispering to in

21:29

the, like, I have to get away from my fiancee. I have to get away

21:31

from Yuki. Okay. He's pretty

21:33

funny. Yeah. They're solid. Yeah.

21:36

What's the, uh, what did you watch weekend update? Uh, I saw the

21:38

Caitlin Clark week. Yeah, I saw that. I

21:41

didn't realize that it had just become like those two

21:43

guys seeing what they can get away with. Yeah.

21:46

I'm not mad at it. There were some funny

21:48

jokes. There were funny jokes. Yeah.

21:51

SNL is pretty good. It's still pretty good. I

21:55

feel almost bad because I'm like, they're like,

21:57

I hope it, I hope that this model of it. just

22:00

like a day after phone scroll

22:02

experience for so many people is

22:05

working for them. Well, it is if you do what I do.

22:07

If you watch on Peacock, they're happy. You

22:09

just like cobbling it together through, you

22:12

know, Volterfos. Illegal torrents. No, it's just

22:14

on YouTube. But is this

22:16

screen flipped and it's in Russian? Is

22:18

that the way you

22:20

are? Yeah, somehow I voted four times watching this.

22:22

I'll tell you another thing. I'm going

22:24

to see the fall guy in the theater. It worked. It

22:26

worked on me. Are you going to see Civil

22:29

War? I'd like

22:31

to, but I can't say I'm seeking it

22:33

out. Okay, because? Feared a debate. Yeah.

22:36

On the big picture. I'm very proud of War.

22:38

Right before, right after you guys recorded that

22:40

last week, we ran into Amanda and she

22:43

told me she had dropped the Alex

22:45

Garland is Emerald Fennel for dudes. Yeah. And

22:48

I've never been the same. I honestly, I kind of

22:50

made me feel warmer towards Emerald Fennel. Well,

22:53

you liked, oh, right. You like Emerald Fennel. I think, yeah,

22:55

I did. I thought Selfern was good. You know what you like?

22:58

You like to be shocked. You know,

23:00

you like provocation. I do. You really

23:02

do. I really do. The only other

23:04

thing I saw this week is the opposite of a

23:06

provocation. And I watched the film

23:08

Perfect Days. The Avengers movie? Yes, which you

23:10

have not seen. I have not. It's

23:12

a perfect movie. Great. It is. I

23:15

can't wait to check it out. Absolutely joyous, beautiful movie. Perfect

23:17

Days. I loved it. This

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24:22

statement, Satisfaction by claim. To

24:25

talk about substantial risk of a book:

24:28

Shows: more shows Supervisor and Fall Out

24:30

Yet more shows Man ah, know, Where

24:33

are you Ripley By the way, To. Sort of

24:35

curiosity. You states

24:37

are stored three parts I'm idol I

24:39

have of my helmet as I'd like

24:41

harbor. I can sense that you. Like.

24:45

You love Ripley. I love deeply respect it,

24:47

Yes, but are not looking forward to watching

24:49

it. That's not true, That's a true

24:51

but like the Civil Civil War kind of

24:54

like no no, it's not that know ripley

24:56

is I am actually. Savoring.

24:59

And I have not had a high opinion of

25:01

my attention span recently. Do my when I just

25:03

told you like I have been been very busy

25:05

with with work and like in the middle of

25:07

two books and they are blurry Twice children consider

25:09

what to watch Blue Ridge and I'm so no

25:11

I'm I'm just kind of trying to carve out

25:13

the right times where it occur. At.

25:15

The oh, do you think it's because because of

25:17

the sort of excruciating. I. Think

25:19

that is to com yes I think that

25:21

as as you try to sit says oh

25:23

okay I see what's happening here. I've watched.

25:25

I'm up to episode six. Now. I'm

25:27

about to embark on opposite sex. Is

25:30

your enthusiasm level still the same? It's

25:32

higher. Really. I don't think this dish

25:34

or could be any higher in my

25:36

estimation. Well. I'm a lot of

25:38

it is it's own making. A lot of that dovetails very

25:40

nicely. Would subside, sir. I think I am. May.

25:43

Be going sweet too far it in the

25:45

sense run like I I, I need to

25:47

aid savor every moment of this. and it's

25:49

actually keeping me from what it's like having

25:51

a wine that you spend a little too

25:53

much money on. Well, now's not the Nato.

25:56

Been an Ios human, Ios human sympathizer Yeah,

25:58

Created by Parker Morgan and Da Mckellar. Based.

26:00

On of in the novel the same name

26:02

by V It on you and ends. Ah.

26:06

First episode is directed by Parker

26:08

and workers obviously Driscoll Think ship.

26:10

Why any on Wikipedia. It.

26:13

Says it for random or ellison Mark Monday and

26:15

directed a bunch of episode so I don't know

26:17

is that way for Nato. Didn't direct episode three

26:19

of Sugar I don't know and I'm actually has

26:21

a conversation I want to have with you about

26:23

direction and tv and okay, okay. I'm.

26:27

Here and that's a good good entry point. Thought

26:30

this was a. Absolute. Fucking

26:33

perfect pilot. Like very dense

26:35

he i'm very like a lot

26:37

of stuff coming at you at

26:39

once. It's follows is a many

26:42

captain play by I. Was.

26:44

On day I'm who

26:46

is. A is essentially

26:48

a double agent working both for

26:50

the communist north and South. In

26:52

this in the Cia in fact,

26:54

it the final days before the

26:57

Fall of Saigon. And the episode

26:59

it sells The first episode. Starts.

27:01

Out With is essentially like almost

27:04

explicit references to France to waves

27:06

like All The Doors styled. So

27:09

making and then moves into an almost

27:11

like. Pea. Coat

27:14

Down Scorsese kind of our

27:16

energies with the camera with

27:18

his voice over with editing

27:21

Whiz redoing scenes in different

27:23

ways yes to show different

27:25

versions of this person's memory.

27:27

I. Was. Absolutely floored by

27:29

us and I maybe it's in my

27:32

bag is this is a shockingly have

27:34

not read this novel by the false

27:36

I got his of like Historical Moments

27:38

is my Roman Empire and so I've

27:41

read I several several books about it.

27:43

What did you think? Well. I

27:45

think a couple things. I.

27:50

And. If I'm reading too much, if you think the oh

27:52

no, I'm with you I'd I loved it. I guess I

27:54

wanted to start with just the book to say that like

27:56

remember how. Ah, Throughout the nineties

27:59

was one of my faves. Recurring gets with

28:01

you is that every few weeks or every

28:03

few months he would sit down with Thomas

28:05

Pynchon book. I. Grabbed his rainbow. Any

28:07

be like I've read the first page that alec not

28:09

not today. Satan has an hour than that. Like? I'm

28:11

embarrassed to say that's me with a sympathizer and is

28:13

my number one, most picked up book of the last

28:15

decade. It won the Pulitzer prize and twenty six days

28:17

a he's doing fine without us. Yeah, but it seems

28:20

like a book I would love drama and now he

28:22

absolutely up doing so now that I wish that I

28:24

could come in and talk about. but maybe it's good

28:26

to just appreciate this for what it is. Also done,

28:28

Mckellar was named. didn't ring any bells until I Googled

28:30

him and realized that he made that he is a

28:32

Canadian filmmaker. Who. Work for that. I'm

28:34

going a lot and I member his movie

28:36

last night about the Night Before the Earth

28:39

and oh now I'm ever seen the Theater

28:41

at the Ritz and silly like disguised as

28:43

been making movies and didn't are so he

28:45

wasn't just picked up off the the the

28:47

pick up my summers to buy adapt the

28:49

same for a report overall I do get

28:51

overall and t at the the other thing

28:53

we and really mention that we're going to

28:56

get into is that it's a twenty four

28:58

and it's team downing. Yes and ah. Mister

29:00

Downey is in it. As all of these, it

29:02

has a great likeness. Is a great litmus for

29:04

whether or not you love. You. Buy

29:06

what Dahlia selling? So let's put that aside for

29:08

a moment. To. Say that. I.

29:11

Wanna try on a different path than the one that

29:13

i usually wear and spot guess which is when same

29:15

as know comes on and yells at us that would

29:17

great so making his and i'm like i'm kind of

29:19

a story guy. Great.

29:21

Filmmaking is fucking amazing. It.

29:23

Is a privilege to watch and

29:25

we saw. Or Guide Director Park.

29:28

Do. This. Weird. Little Drummer

29:30

Girl get the few. In fact I would

29:32

say there are some recurring images. very much

29:34

so and and but regardless of the even

29:37

the specific a specific images. His

29:39

absolute mastery of camera movement and production

29:41

design and how you can marry those

29:43

two in the service of a story

29:46

that is totally. That. Is

29:48

period, but utterly vital and

29:50

totally transporting Is just. it's

29:52

incredible. It's. incredible way the strozzi when

29:54

even as opening and said scorsese which is correct

29:56

because i feel like the person i was going

29:59

to mention his disciples for safety, but there's

30:01

a Tarantino element to it as well not

30:04

just from the fonts but sort of the centrality

30:07

of cinema and fiction to the

30:09

story in that opening moment when the Emmanuel

30:12

Mm-hmm billboard is being carded out and death wish

30:14

is being brought in so good and so gripping

30:19

and I also just love that there's

30:22

just a kind of a professionalism when you have a

30:25

grade a Filmmaker making

30:27

something. Yeah, and it's not just in the production

30:30

design. It's in the cast as well You mentioned

30:32

wash one day who not familiar with he's an

30:34

Australian actor who? I

30:37

guess there was a New York Times profile.

30:39

He's like I did not audition for this

30:41

thinking I would be the star Yeah, he's

30:43

magnetic. He's charismatic as are the actors playing

30:45

his friends Absolutely flies like

30:47

I and I didn't think I mean you were saying

30:50

about like a perfect pilot It's

30:52

very It's filmmaking right

30:55

so there's like there's jumps around there's

30:57

repetition Yeah You have to follow it

30:59

very closely and yet somehow I didn't think that

31:01

it was gonna kick into the gear that it kicked

31:03

into In the last 15 minutes. Yes

31:05

with the escape with the c-130 to get out

31:07

of Saigon get out of Saigon I did not

31:09

see that coming I did not know that that

31:12

was the gear that we were going into in

31:14

this first episode and it left me breathless Yeah,

31:16

I I thought that the the last

31:18

15 minutes were Really

31:21

really really gripping. I

31:23

was a little bit like thrown off by maybe

31:25

the VFX of

31:27

that whole experience with the bus flipping

31:30

over But it was a

31:33

really like amazing exit and what a way to

31:35

end the first episode Like you are definitely coming

31:37

back next week to find out what happens to

31:39

this guy. Yep I was

31:41

curious to hear about like the for for

31:43

general audiences or maybe audiences who haven't done a

31:45

lot of reading about the end of the Vietnam

31:48

War whether or not they felt like they

31:50

were in over their

31:52

heads with history and information, you know,

31:54

just quite frankly because It

31:58

was funny I was joking with Joanna today and she

32:00

was like how you're pretty lucky to

32:02

have these shows that are right in your wheelhouse

32:04

in a lot of ways. And I was like,

32:07

I just kind of like the miracle of this

32:09

period is like, there's kind of something for everybody,

32:11

but this is so dialed

32:13

into the kinds of things that I'm

32:15

interested in. And where it's like espionage

32:17

as identity and

32:20

leads you into questions about who we are and what

32:23

we are and how we remember the things that have

32:25

happened to us and how we

32:27

tell the story once we remember

32:29

those things. And that duality is

32:32

baked into it because the author,

32:34

when he's an

32:37

American, Vietnamese American author. And so the

32:39

way that this show, I imagine

32:41

the book interrogates American involvement in the

32:43

war from a multiplicity of perspective, the

32:45

show is attempting to do that as

32:47

well. And I, at least in

32:49

one episode, I find that really successful and also

32:51

really provocative

32:53

and fresh, you know, from the perspective of

32:56

like lived in life, like the

32:58

three blood brothers who were following in the,

33:00

in the, in the pilot, like having beers

33:02

before their cities, their city falls and their

33:05

life changes, but all three of them are

33:07

on different sides, essentially. Yeah. And then I

33:09

think it's worth mentioning that I

33:12

don't know if the show necessarily gets

33:14

made without Downey. He

33:16

certainly seems to think so. Well,

33:18

it's interesting you should say that because I can

33:20

understand why, like in the first scene, when Downey's

33:22

character Claude, who is a CIA agent and Downey

33:25

is going to be playing multiple characters over the

33:27

course of this series. But

33:29

when his character comes up to captain

33:32

outside of the movie theater and it's like, okay,

33:35

looks like Ham is back on the menu, boys, you know,

33:39

but then over the course of the episode, I found

33:42

myself forgetting him, you know,

33:45

forgetting it's Downey and just being like, what

33:47

an amazing characterization, you know, and what

33:49

an amazing performance, like, it's

33:51

interesting. So his, so for people,

33:54

I think we sort of alluded to this, like

33:56

he plays all of the white antagonists in the

33:58

show. So the character he's playing in, in

34:00

the first episode, Claude, who's

34:02

a, he plays it, you know, he

34:04

makes some choices, but it is a type

34:06

that we've seen in movies before. Yeah, it's

34:08

like the shadowy CIA handler. Who seems more

34:10

comfortable when things turn to shit. Yeah. But

34:13

he will appear in other roles going

34:15

forward, a filmmaker, a professor, etc, etc.

34:19

I wonder if you and I, we're

34:22

not watching ahead, I think we got screeners, but I've

34:24

only seen this one. If

34:26

we'll feel differently as he

34:28

continues to turn up, whether that

34:30

will make this experiment more successful

34:32

or less successful, if the vibe

34:34

is intentionally what it

34:36

is. Because it did take me out a little

34:38

bit, only because I carried into it this thought of

34:40

like, that's the only face I recognize. And

34:43

he's not exactly disappearing into the wallpaper. See,

34:45

I think everyone else is excellent. I found

34:47

him to disappear over the course of the

34:49

episode. And I wonder whether or not there's

34:51

something of like, there's going to be a

34:53

sticker shock sensation when you first see

34:55

Downey in each one of these episodes, and then he's

34:57

going to recede into the character

34:59

themselves over the course of it. Like I think by

35:02

the time he drives off in the motorcycle at the

35:04

end of this episode, I was like, there goes Claude,

35:06

not there goes Robert Downey. There's

35:09

a scene in this in this first episode,

35:12

Andy alluded to it. By the way, I

35:14

just did confer you're right, Wikipedia is right.

35:17

Director Park only did the first three. So this

35:19

kind of leads into a thing I wanted to ask you about.

35:22

This is becoming a pretty

35:24

common setup for for see shows

35:26

where a pretty big name director

35:28

takes on maybe more than the

35:30

first one or the first two of the episodes.

35:33

Traditionally, like you can go back

35:35

to carry Fukunaga kind of breaking

35:38

into this world with doing the entire first

35:40

season of True Detective. You have Jane Campion

35:42

doing the entirety of Top of the Lake.

35:44

There's obviously precedents for great filmmakers to be

35:46

like, I'm going to go take on the

35:48

entirety of of

35:51

a season of television. And it's an incredibly

35:53

difficult thing to do. I mean, for as

35:55

hard as I'm sure it is to write

35:57

To be the person who is literally like on

35:59

stage. That shooting every shot of an episode of

36:01

How To and always an ember. Data on how

36:03

young he owed to just be like nah, never

36:05

been that historic. We had not been out historically,

36:08

had not been done. I think there's one way,

36:10

which, like seems, boroughs can direct lots of the

36:12

episodes of Cheers. There's. Another way which

36:14

cary Fukunaga is like. Blocking.

36:16

Out Starting out shots for an entire

36:18

season of television. Written by their pets

36:21

lot of and. I

36:23

found the. Tv to be at this

36:25

kind of curious crossroads Were on one

36:27

hand, there's obviously stone interest in bringing

36:29

so makers into the table and either

36:31

selling a project because so and so

36:33

is directing it. Ah, likely

36:35

in this case like I'm pretty interested in

36:37

this material anyway. but the fact that dark

36:40

to park is on it is like that's

36:42

a major deal for me. He directed although

36:44

drummer girl he sure did. I almost wonder

36:46

sometimes. If. The.

36:50

Great. So maker is going to do half

36:52

the season or a few episodes. Works.

36:55

Against the show is one hundred percent us in

36:57

that same year can talk about sugar. Which.

36:59

I'm sticking with because I I look com

37:01

feral and I now and you know the

37:03

twist is. My fears about the show as

37:06

we talked about last week were realized in

37:08

the third episode for two reasons. One is

37:10

it's now just becoming like. Twist.

37:12

Dependent on us. but the biggest reason is

37:14

and I mean no disrespect to a guy

37:16

who is very, very good at what he

37:18

does, has been drinking excellent television for a

37:21

long time. off the back of a notepad

37:23

I could not come up with to directors

37:25

more different than For and Umbrellas and at

37:27

a markets Yeah, And. What

37:30

that does to a show that is so

37:32

much based on style and anticipation? When.

37:34

It just becomes kind of. More

37:36

by the book, More Ah

37:39

are grounded. Tv

37:41

Directing. His. Wild

37:43

Yeah, he just. It's it's like

37:45

it's like of it's ago instagram filter coming

37:47

off like oh we're just looking at these

37:49

guys walk around and drives. Unless.

37:52

Interesting. Yeah, it hurts. it. know

37:54

what's the truth you're probably somewhere in the

37:56

middle of when a filmmaker comes in with

37:58

a complete point you and elevates it, especially

38:00

if you're if you're able to like if

38:02

you're buying what they're selling, right? You are

38:04

you're you're in the clouds and

38:06

then you crash harder if they can't do it

38:08

anymore. That's my thing is

38:11

that it's almost I

38:13

understand the necessity of having somebody direct an

38:15

early episode to create the visual language for

38:17

a show. And nine times out

38:19

of 10, you know, I think like, for instance,

38:21

Jason Bateman directed a lot of Ozark or directed

38:23

a fair amount of the first

38:26

and last season if I remember correctly. But

38:28

like more or less like establishes

38:30

what the way Ozark is going to be

38:32

lit, maybe how certain things are

38:34

going to be shot. But like Ozark for

38:37

as much as I like it is not it's

38:40

not the sympathizer in terms of how it's

38:42

made and like the distinct visual

38:44

flair. And I don't know

38:46

whether this is a situation where schedules came

38:48

up or maybe even like there was a

38:51

disagreement. I have no idea why. Park's network

38:53

is not directing the entirety of this. Yeah,

38:55

it's interesting. And we can look into it.

38:57

But like he did take

38:59

a writing credit on every episode. So he's clearly

39:01

or at least believes that he was involved in

39:03

more than just this first two

39:05

episodes. I will also say that like

39:08

the drop off fourth episode is

39:10

directed by Fernando Morales. So I'm talking about

39:12

leaving sugar. So and from Morales, I could

39:14

see having a real affinity for this material

39:16

as well because of some of his other

39:18

work. The final three episodes directed by Mark

39:20

Munden, who did the third day that super

39:23

weird Jude Law show that we really love.

39:25

And he did Utopia. And yeah, so this

39:27

is these are heavy hitters. Now, can they

39:29

all play together? TBD? But when

39:31

you direct something the way part

39:34

did for the first episode, how

39:36

do you sustain that? Like how do

39:39

you do like if he's like, hey, I've read

39:41

this scene that takes place in the movie theater

39:43

in the first episode of sympathizer. And there's basically

39:45

a scene where more

39:47

or less all the major characters are gathered

39:50

in an empty cinema, watching an interrogation take

39:52

place on the stage in front of the

39:54

screen of a North Vietnamese spy. And

39:57

Unbeknownst to everybody else in that

39:59

theater except for Captain is that

40:01

captain is that spies source or

40:03

partner and you're watching this person?

40:06

Be. Blinded by the lights of the

40:08

movie theater. There's all this recurring. Both.

40:11

Of like as a idea but also

40:13

as a visual. like a camera roll

40:15

starting. Like as remote like camera projector

40:17

starting. He's been told to talk into

40:19

the cinema the beginning of the episode

40:21

when he's recounting what's happened to him.

40:23

So this is this magical moment where

40:26

he shooting at at a distance. He's

40:28

doing that like all these different things

40:30

up on stage is doing so fucking

40:32

much it's like obviously shot. To

40:34

an inch of it's life in the most glorious way.

40:36

It's like how do you then just be like iron

40:38

and your next. Have. Gone for neto

40:40

like well I think would that does is.

40:43

The. These moments in his conversations were

40:45

talking about or were really hitting on

40:47

a kind of breaking point that I

40:49

think the industry has reached because. There.

40:51

Was a period when you're in

40:53

the century when he would hire

40:55

a director to do the pilot

40:58

to set of visual tone to

41:00

get checks in perpetuity like Mickey

41:02

directing the O C pilots Definite

41:04

or can with Mickey. Same.

41:06

Honor and Same universe.

41:09

But. He was open ended. So what happened

41:12

afterwards? You know you would let it go.

41:14

I think it becomes more challenging when you're

41:16

trying to sell a prestige product as a

41:18

complete Statements, which is where we ended up

41:20

for a bunch of years here. Right where

41:22

it's like it's. A

41:24

this is a the should be considered

41:26

a complete work of art which is

41:28

what caused some people like or friend

41:30

sam like Director Park with little drummer

41:32

girl to do the whole thing because

41:34

this put dishonored. But. This

41:36

on the Dvd next. There are other stuff in

41:38

this in the future that this is also their

41:40

vision. I'm. Just

41:42

I, you know, get. Conversationally,

41:45

Like. Sings. The.

41:48

Industry has changed so much that

41:50

in. It's been told to me and

41:53

I'm living through it that like a year ago. Projects.

41:56

Going out on the town for sale

41:58

were. Almost all. attaching

42:00

a director ahead of time. Now that

42:02

is not considered a value add. It

42:04

is, they are not, like do not take time to do

42:06

that anymore. Not just because, I mean

42:09

for a variety of reasons, one of which is which directors

42:11

really move the needle. A, B, you're

42:14

not competing against as many people anymore. I think you

42:16

had to secure talent ahead of time because everyone was

42:18

in so demand and now a lot of people are

42:20

looking for work. But also it's just like, what

42:23

are you getting if they're not doing the whole series? Yeah. And

42:26

does it actually put you at a disadvantage? Yes,

42:28

exactly. I mean that both ways. In some cases

42:30

it could be a situation where a filmmaker does

42:32

such a great job with it and

42:34

has such a distinctive approach that it's hard to map

42:36

it onto the other episodes. You could also have a

42:38

situation like the Carrie Fukunaga one in Masters of the

42:40

Air, which I think I was pretty open

42:43

about really loving the Bowdoin Fleck episodes of

42:45

those. But feeling like Carrie's

42:47

were pretty inert and

42:49

that there would have been maybe

42:51

a different show in there if they had gotten

42:54

off of Carrie Fukunaga earlier than the first,

42:56

I think he does the first four or

42:58

five episodes. I think that also potentially, I

43:00

didn't watch it, but I think that speaks

43:02

to the perpetual tension in TV between writer

43:04

and director and whose show is it. And

43:07

some shows succeed when you lean

43:09

more into the direction, I'm concerned Sugar might be

43:12

one of them, but other shows where it's like

43:14

the real appeal is always gonna be the characters

43:16

and the way they're written. You

43:18

could step back. Anyway, this is all, I worry

43:20

we're veering into the theoretical because we've only watched

43:23

one episode and we have two more park episodes

43:25

to come. To save her.

43:27

But it does seem, not to do

43:30

my usual doom and gloom thing, but like,

43:32

yeah, A24 team downy, Park Chan Wook making

43:34

the show seems very,

43:37

very pre-strike to me. Sure. But

43:39

I hope people check it out because I certainly want,

43:43

I want this, I want this. Dazzled,

43:45

dazzled. And like you said, we are in like

43:47

some kind of weird high

43:49

watermark of like, I thought it was gone. I

43:52

thought this era was gonna be over of like

43:54

people just Getting after it filmmaking

43:56

wise. I Hadn't felt like this in a while.

43:58

These Episodes of Riffly were just like basically. Like

44:00

watching actually address got move

44:02

through space. Is like outer

44:04

space? Know it's mostly like Salient Point was

44:06

Robert Elswit while Just Guy walks up and

44:09

down the streets and up and down stairs.

44:12

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45:57

you i talk a little bit about fallout i do Do

46:01

you want me to go first? Yeah, why not?

46:04

Well I feel like I'll just be telling you things you know.

46:06

Let's start it like I can do a little stuff. You're a

46:08

gamer, you know. Not this one.

46:11

No. I mean when they make FIFA. The

46:13

movie? But

46:15

about your journey? Yeah, about me

46:17

taking Nottingham Forest to

46:20

quadruple. Wasn't that the Gran Turismo

46:22

movie where they made a movie about a kid who plays the game

46:25

but got to... This must be alright.

46:27

That's you. It's a representation of

46:29

multiple Fallout video games I think because from

46:31

what I understand there are little bits and pieces from

46:34

across this multi-title franchise

46:37

of a video game. It comes

46:39

to us from Jonathan Nolan and Lisa

46:41

Joy who previously worked on Westworld. They

46:44

had like another Amazon show. Peripheral.

46:46

Peripheral. They moved after

46:48

Westworld ended unceremoniously. They moved their overall deal

46:50

to Amazon. This is the second fruit of that

46:53

labor. Although they did not showrun this. I didn't

46:55

realize this. I did the first few episodes. But

46:58

a different showrunning team whose names I will

47:00

google while you vamp can let us know.

47:03

Okay. This stars Ella

47:05

Parnell who is in... Sweet

47:07

Bitter. Sweet Bitter. But also Yellow

47:09

Jackets I think? And

47:12

then... Rand Wagner and Geneva Robertson for it.

47:14

So they came in and did it? They

47:16

are the credited creators and writers and showrunners

47:18

of this. Nolan

47:21

and Joy are EPs who

47:23

brought this in under their overall deal. Interesting.

47:25

But also when you read... And Nolan directed

47:27

the first three episodes. When you read a

47:30

little bit of the development it

47:32

says Bethesda Games resisted and

47:35

treaties to adapt this until Jonathan Nolan came

47:37

in and pitched it. So it could

47:40

be that he had a bit of

47:42

a notion and then these two writers

47:44

came on and fleshed it out. Unclear.

47:47

But that's the team. What we got

47:49

here is

47:52

another in what feels like

47:54

a long line of vaguely

47:56

dystopian post-apocalyptic road

47:59

movies. I think it very much feels a

48:01

piece of The Last of Us. It

48:03

feels a piece of Westworld. Can you say it?

48:06

Can you use the mando voice to

48:08

say, Silo? Silo. It's like

48:10

you're not going to believe what's on the other side of this wall stuff.

48:14

I am a huge fan of

48:16

Walton Goggins and watching him play in a

48:18

noseless ghoul or a noseless bounty hunter named

48:21

the ghoul is definitely pretty amusing.

48:23

You don't get much of that in the first

48:25

episode. I already feel 11 hours

48:27

behind on this show because they put up the entire season

48:29

for whatever reason. And

48:32

I guess we'll get to the bottom of it. This didn't really work for me.

48:35

And it's not actually like I'm not trying to be dismissive.

48:37

I think honestly, in comparison

48:39

to the other shows that we're watching right now,

48:42

tonally, I was just like, this is not where

48:44

my head is at right now. Yeah, I mean,

48:46

I think the positive side

48:48

of the ledger, I want to say that, like, from

48:51

what I understand, the games, you know, are open

48:53

world and each have their own point of view

48:55

and protagonist characters. And what seems to be really

48:57

smart here, from what I understand, is that no

48:59

one was like, I'm going to tell a story

49:01

in this world that doesn't contradict the other ones.

49:03

But like the Lucy character is not

49:05

the main character in any of the games. OK,

49:07

this is just drawn from a world where this

49:09

all happened, where there was a nuclear war and

49:11

kind of a fifties Jetsons

49:14

type time. And then we're in a 200 years

49:16

in the future where it's like steampunk apocalypse.

49:19

Right. So good job. I mean, I think

49:22

that's a smart way to do an adaptation. I

49:25

also think that the like

49:27

the color scheme of it is really smart and

49:29

bright. And I think that the

49:31

casting, too, is really good across the board,

49:33

whether it's whether it's Walton Goggins or it's

49:35

Kyle McLaughlin, Zack Cherry, Srita

49:37

Choudhury, right? Srita Choudhury, Zack Cherry from

49:39

Severance. And then just going off the

49:42

Wikipedia, like future, the whole episode, the

49:44

whole season is up. So

49:46

people know this, but it would be news to us that

49:48

Matt Barry is in a John Daly, Chris Parnell,

49:51

like a lot of funny people.

49:53

And even like Michael Christopher from Mr. Robot

49:55

showing up. Oh, yeah. As

49:57

the King Arthur guy. Kind of. Really

50:00

smart One

50:02

of the issues I have is that

50:04

this show being billed as like a

50:06

dystopian action comedy and then

50:09

this cast But Jonathan Nolan

50:11

or any Nolan doing it it reminds me

50:13

of the episode of extras where Liam Neeson

50:15

wants to do improvisational comedy He's

50:18

just like I've developed full blown AIDS and Ricky

50:20

Trevase is like I'm

50:22

so sorry. Yeah It's

50:25

not necessarily these aren't the people you turn

50:27

to for bright You know

50:29

subversive comedic take on things Yeah, I got

50:31

I got the feeling like this got boys

50:34

pilled somewhere along the line and that there's

50:36

a lot of tonal Like

50:39

similarities to the two shows. I have it. I

50:41

mean I have a kind of Unfortunate

50:43

kind of heel turn take on this which I

50:45

think through one episode an hour and

50:47

15 minute episode, which I watched I

50:50

promise I think this might

50:52

be the best video game adaptation ever made certainly for

50:54

television What's it up against last of us? You think

50:57

that this is better than last? Oh, yeah, you think

50:59

that fallout is better than last of us as a

51:01

successful adaptation I think probably yeah But how would you

51:03

even quantify that if you haven't played the game because

51:05

I think none of these things should exist That's

51:08

my heel turn That

51:11

is my turn like Good

51:13

like I'm happy for you if you want to

51:15

like this triple Sal Cal of takes It's like

51:17

not only is this better than the thing that

51:19

everybody loves but they both suck. Is that your

51:22

take? It's not that they suck. I feel the

51:24

same way about this that I feel about people

51:26

getting excited about X-Men 97 Which is

51:28

I'm very happy for you Genuinely,

51:30

yes, the joy you are getting from

51:32

this is like you from bluey and

51:34

vendors. Yes. Yes Yeah, all deserve our

51:36

things make us happy and I am

51:38

NOT here to poo-poo it or

51:41

put it down. It's just that like I The

51:44

thing that boggled my mind in this and it

51:46

connected to last of us to a degree is

51:48

just like to strap on your Your

51:50

creative pith helmet every day and be like

51:53

time to blow up the world again Is it

51:56

bums me out? I don't know why

51:58

this story is beautiful told to

52:00

us. I don't know what we're gaining artistically or

52:02

culturally or societally from it. It's just that the

52:05

video game has cool effects and an interesting idea.

52:07

So we're going to devote tens

52:09

of millions of dollars of Amazon's money

52:11

to bring it to bloody life. And

52:13

it's like, okay, I

52:15

guess everybody's got to get paid somehow. I guess

52:18

for me, it's actually not having played the

52:20

video games is to me an

52:22

advantage because I have no, I don't really. Now I

52:24

think in Last of Us, you

52:26

can either have been a video game fanatic and played it and

52:28

been like, Oh my God, I can't believe this is coming to

52:30

life. Or you can be like, I have no idea what any

52:32

of you guys are talking about. This is just a really good

52:34

story. Right. With

52:37

Fallout, I'm a little bit like, I

52:39

can tell that there's a lot

52:41

going on on screen that means a ton to

52:44

somebody who played the video game that I don't

52:46

care about. I guess that and I don't know

52:48

why it's at once a Western,

52:50

a Jetsons thing

52:53

and then also like a tech war.

52:55

I think that's like a neck like

52:57

fucking night thing. It's also

52:59

like, yeah, it's like Dark Hello Tomorrow, the show that

53:02

Apple memory hold last year. I

53:05

want to refine my controversial take. You've

53:07

made a really key point here. Thanks.

53:10

Craig Mazin and HBO did a very Craig Mazin

53:12

and HBO thing, which is that they

53:14

took a obsessively beloved video game

53:16

and they were like, what's the

53:18

universal, I thought you were to

53:21

say obsessively. Nobody loves Chernobyl

53:23

more than us. We are

53:25

passionate. Chernobyl is kind of like my

53:27

fall of Saigon, you know, if I had to put it in

53:29

Chris Parlin. Sure. And

53:32

they made it and it is universal in a way

53:34

that is very successful and it's because of the way

53:36

it was cast because of the way that Mason filled

53:38

out the margins of the show with, of course, everyone's

53:40

going to point to the third episode, the Nick

53:43

Offerman journey. Yes. So

53:46

if the mission is

53:48

to bring in people and

53:51

find the universality of it, like the way Feige

53:53

did in the early days of Marvel, that is

53:55

superior and that is going to be nominated and

53:57

win Emmys and the show is not. The thing

53:59

that I appreciate about this is it

54:01

to me it felt like the most

54:03

successful attempt to wrap one's arms around

54:05

the fact that video games are toys

54:10

that don't have to make sense and I

54:12

mean that not dismissively because I say that

54:14

about comic books too like when comic book

54:16

things embrace the thing that is really hard

54:18

to translate into a blockbuster movie which is

54:20

just like oh this planet is a living

54:22

alien that eats other planets and also is

54:25

the personification of time and someone's

54:27

dad and it's Kurt Russell I'm

54:29

like that's comic books that's why you

54:31

read them it's not because the heroes always win at

54:33

the end because it's like what the fuck this

54:36

show does that yeah I think in a

54:38

way in that it's like goofy

54:41

but also balladically violent and

54:45

all of those other all the others that when she

54:47

goes out into the world they shot

54:49

those parts in Namibia did you see that shout

54:52

out Amazon's overall budget it's

54:56

wild it's out there I just it's just wild and out there

54:58

in a way where I'm like I it's not

55:01

for me and so do you think you'll watch

55:03

any more of this I I

55:06

am gonna sit here and tell you I do not think

55:08

that I will I I have to say that the I

55:10

know that they get shorter and I know that this sounds like

55:13

really like somebody helped the old man get

55:15

into his car

55:18

or something you guys got to stop the

55:20

65 minute episodes to start a season

55:22

yeah brother you guys gotta fucking

55:24

knock it off and Amazon does this a lot and

55:26

I there are lots of shows I like on Amazon

55:29

but this this is a boys thing

55:31

too and

55:33

it sucks it's too long these

55:35

scenes go on too long it also

55:39

telegraphs what's gonna happen I was gonna say

55:41

that real fucking early and then you're like

55:43

we have to like 20 minutes for this

55:45

girl's fake wedding did not work out we're

55:47

still gonna sit here and watch people who

55:49

clearly have never seen food before yeah like

55:51

we see what's coming yeah and it feels

55:54

that is when when they're doing that is

55:56

the time where I'm like I feel like I'm part of

55:59

an algorithm I feel like they did

56:01

some study of like, if

56:03

people stay engaged with the service for 58

56:05

minutes or more, they

56:08

may buy a fucking vacuum cleaner. And I'm like,

56:10

I hate this. I'm with

56:12

you. And if you're gonna make something 65 minutes,

56:14

at least have the decency to make it energetic.

56:16

Whereas like, if the sympathizer was 20 more minutes,

56:18

I don't really, I want it to start the

56:21

next episode right away. You know,

56:23

like I love, I don't mind something being

56:25

long if it's got some verve and some

56:27

cinematic energy and some sparkle. My counter to

56:29

that is, yeah. But this

56:32

is like a whole fucking preamble and like, we

56:34

haven't even gotten to like, most of these characters

56:36

together yet. I completely agree with you. But I

56:38

also do want to point out that

56:40

I think that it's incredibly successful

56:43

for an assignment that I think is kind

56:45

of nonsense. Like it's an impossible assignment.

56:47

But within that, breaking up the 65

56:50

minutes into clearly delineated

56:52

segments called The End, Lucy,

56:54

Maximus, and The Ghoul, had

56:57

some verve, some wit, like okay. Because I

56:59

think they understood that really the

57:01

way to tell the story would be to do

57:04

one character experiencing things, but then it's just silo.

57:06

And then you'd also get people being like, what

57:08

about this character from the video? What about that

57:10

world? So in terms of like, Jonathan

57:13

Nolan clearly, the Nolan family in

57:15

general, they have an uncanny knack

57:17

of approaching artistic situations as problem

57:19

solvers. And breaking it

57:22

into pieces and you know, into

57:24

using, manipulating time. Like they're both really good

57:27

at that. And so I appreciate it. I

57:29

respectfully, I'm gonna need you

57:31

to keep Christopher Nolan out of this. Mm. I'm

57:37

just saying. Wait, what was your take that fucking enraged me

57:39

about what was something that was better than? I was thinking

57:41

about that today. I said Spider versus better than Killers the

57:43

Flower Moon. Oh yeah. You

57:46

want to read us with that? No, I mean like we need

57:48

to like not be like, it's

57:50

not like from the maker of Oppenheimer. It's like

57:52

they're separate guys. They just have the last name.

57:54

No, but I think that they share the, I

57:56

mean they've worked together before. I'm not.

57:58

In the past, yes. want to spill some tea

58:01

here. I'm trying to praise Jonathan Nolan and you

58:03

won't let me do it. Because

58:05

you're dragging down Christopher Nolan who made

58:07

Dunkirk and Oppenheimer and be like, he

58:09

too likes to jump around time. All

58:13

of Christopher Nolan's movies are better than these

58:15

than person of interest. Okay. Well,

58:17

like I'm not trying to get cute.

58:20

I was just trying to say that that

58:22

is something that I appreciate about this, the

58:24

professionalism and thought that went into something

58:26

that I never want to watch again. Okay. Right?

58:29

Like, I guess I'm just trying to find

58:32

a way to politely put this in that X-Men 97

58:34

zone, which is just like, I am

58:36

happy. Have you cam some nice 97? Yeah, watch

58:38

the first one. Yeah. And you

58:40

get to the one where everybody's like, I've been waiting for this my whole

58:42

life. I guess not. If

58:45

you only watch the first one. No, that's

58:47

fine. I'm busy. It's fine.

58:49

It's I didn't watch that cartoon. It's not generationally

58:51

for us. What's this? I asked Charles this. What's

58:53

the thing that cable is coming back to stop

58:55

the virus? The techno organic virus that

58:57

he was infected with. So important. But Nathan Summers is

59:00

the son of Scott Summers and Madeline Pryor, who was

59:02

the goblin queen. Mr. Sinister created a clone of Jean

59:04

Grey who's that's in this. It's a next time 97

59:06

all that stuff. Yeah. It's in comic books that I

59:09

read 30 years ago. I feel

59:11

like we're ending on a sour note when

59:13

we were so in love with each other

59:15

and filmmaking. Just your guy, Shogun director Frederick

59:18

E. O. Toy directs later episodes of that

59:20

sounds like I'm sorry. Should we do a

59:22

Shogun director draft? He directed episodes of Fallout.

59:25

Good. I can't wait to

59:27

see it. Wow. We are. Kai, are we

59:29

too negative about Fallout? Do you know like no, I

59:31

really fall out from our fallout take it

59:33

ain't no one's gonna be surprised. But be I

59:36

was open to liking it. I was definitely I

59:38

love got Goggins is my guy. So I was

59:40

definitely and he's having a lot of fun. He's

59:43

having a lot of fun. And also weirdly,

59:45

he's so good always that for people who

59:47

haven't watched but are somehow still listening to

59:49

this and part of the podcast, the opening

59:52

sequence where he is not yet

59:54

a Google mutant. Yeah. He

59:57

got to do something he almost never gets to do, which is

59:59

just being A normie? Yeah,

1:00:01

he's just like a Western actor,

1:00:04

yeah. He's a great actor. Yeah,

1:00:07

I feel like the sourness crept more into my voice because

1:00:09

I don't really want to watch more of this, but I

1:00:12

really want to stress, but I thought this was

1:00:14

lowercase good. I thought they did a good

1:00:16

job. It's just not for me. I don't know if

1:00:18

they're gonna put that on the poster. I don't think so, but I have

1:00:21

said in the past, I've gotten really agitated about things that I

1:00:24

think are not for me, but also I think they are bad.

1:00:26

Like a crime against God. And I think

1:00:29

that what you were hearing also in my

1:00:31

controversial take was that I feel like

1:00:33

people are gassing up Last of Us way beyond

1:00:35

what it deserves because of its pedigree and its

1:00:37

network, where this is just like, we're fucking around

1:00:40

in the desert. And there's an honesty to that

1:00:42

that I appreciate. Like Last of Us had a

1:00:44

lovely episode where men fell in love with each

1:00:46

other and chose to end their lives in a

1:00:48

provocative way, but also it had mushroom virus. What's

1:00:50

wrong with that? Mushroom zombies. And

1:00:53

we almost, yes you can. There's, yes you

1:00:55

can. You can definitely have that. I know,

1:00:57

but I do feel like there's a, do

1:01:00

you remember the famous sketch from the state

1:01:02

where it was just like, we are going to

1:01:05

do highbrow comedy and lowbrow comedy on one side.

1:01:07

It was like Thomas Lennon in a smoking jacket

1:01:09

telling a witty anecdote on the other side. Ken

1:01:11

Marino was in overalls on a whoopee cushion, right?

1:01:13

And I feel like there's- First of all, when

1:01:15

those guys fell in love, you were like, this

1:01:18

is as good as TV is. He was. And-

1:01:21

What I'm saying is- You just don't like the mushroom- No, let me finish

1:01:23

my take. I'm just saying. I'm saying there

1:01:25

are the two conversations about

1:01:27

The Last of Us you meet in America, okay? And

1:01:30

sometimes I don't think we're talking to each other about

1:01:33

the same show. And

1:01:35

they did a good job of triangulating it, right?

1:01:38

Yeah. But I

1:01:40

don't know. I like you getting out ahead of

1:01:42

Last of Us backlash. I mean,

1:01:44

just like accepting it, running into the beach. A year

1:01:46

early, you're like, I just want to let everybody know

1:01:48

that I thought this was mid-2024. I

1:01:51

said it then too. You did. You were

1:01:53

always kind of Luke Gorman. I am Lucy

1:01:55

wandering out into the

1:01:58

irradiated wasteland. take the

1:02:00

slings and arrows for you. And

1:02:03

because I no longer have the Andrew Greenwald podcast to

1:02:05

do that, I bring it home. Let's

1:02:07

talk a little bit about what's coming up on the watch. We're

1:02:10

never recording another episode. I've

1:02:13

been canceled. No, on Thursday,

1:02:16

we'll talk about Shogun and maybe

1:02:19

a little bit more Ripley. Who knows? I

1:02:21

could catch up to you. Okay, and then, yeah, some

1:02:24

exciting stuff coming with Shogun with some guests. When

1:02:26

is Hacks? Hacks is coming soon. May 2nd,

1:02:28

I wanna say. So after the fall

1:02:31

guy in my watch calendar. After

1:02:34

you've seen the fall guy multiple times.

1:02:36

Multiple times. Thank you

1:02:38

to Kaya for being so flexible today. It was

1:02:41

a throwback to a nine to five

1:02:43

for her. I tried to stop her from

1:02:45

coming to the office today, but she was already here. We gotta get

1:02:47

her out of here before traffic to the West Side gets bad. Isn't

1:02:50

it already bad? Yeah, I just wanted us to seem

1:02:52

like good guys. And the mic, Kaya

1:02:54

knows the truth. This

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