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a million people have fallen asleep

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to my voice. Hello

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and welcome to the Wellness Mama podcast. I'm

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Katie from wellnessmama.com and I'm so grateful you're

0:46

here with me today. I'm here

0:48

for round two with Veronica Rotman to talk

0:50

about how your nervous system can help you

0:53

create the life that you want. And

0:55

this builds on our first conversation about somatic and

0:57

nervous system healing. So if you missed that one,

0:59

I will link to it in the show

1:01

notes. But this is something that

1:03

was very helpful to me in my recovery journey

1:05

from Hashimoto's and from trauma in

1:07

my past and so many things. And

1:10

I'm very excited to have Veronica's voice

1:12

here today to share her expertise in

1:14

this area. She is a

1:16

somatic practitioner and educator and the founder of

1:18

Waking Will, a somatic practice that

1:20

centers on healing trauma through the nervous

1:23

system with a special area of focus

1:25

on women and relational and emotional

1:27

trauma, boundary ruptures, motherhood, and

1:30

so much more. And I

1:32

think this topic is especially important for women,

1:35

as Veronica explains in this episode

1:37

today. So without further ado,

1:39

let's jump in and learn from Veronica. Veronica,

1:43

welcome back. Yeah, so good to

1:45

be here again, Katie. Thank you. Well,

1:47

I am excited to go deeper in this

1:49

conversation. For any of you who missed it,

1:51

we had an amazing episode about what somatics

1:53

are, what nervous system healing looks like. And

1:56

in this episode, I'm really excited to dive

1:58

deeper onto that and especially how to

2:00

use your nervous system to

2:02

help create the life that you want. Because

2:05

you explained so well in the first episode,

2:07

how intricately tied our nervous system is to

2:09

so many aspects of our lives. And

2:12

I think this can be like a learning process

2:14

and a friendship with our body that we create

2:16

over our whole lifetime. But I want

2:18

to go deep on this topic that you talk about online so

2:21

well. If, how do we make friends

2:23

with our nervous system and use our bodies and

2:25

our nervous systems to help create the life we

2:27

want? Yeah. I

2:30

really want to highlight and underline

2:32

what you said about befriending our

2:35

body. Because especially as

2:37

women, we're taught two things.

2:40

We're taught that either our

2:42

body is a nuisance, something to

2:45

put up with, that it's a source of

2:47

suffering and pain as women. Like we're just

2:49

meant to put up with all sorts

2:51

of different symptoms and

2:53

pain and suffering. Or we're

2:56

taught that our body is

2:58

an object. Right?

3:01

Our body is an object and it

3:03

can cause others to sin. It's meant

3:06

to be valued by

3:08

how it looks. And

3:10

these are just two examples, but

3:12

I think they're the major ones of

3:14

how we completely

3:17

disconnect from our body.

3:20

And over

3:22

time, when we disconnect from our

3:24

body, we disconnect from ourselves. When

3:28

we are living a disembodied life, it's

3:31

going to feel really disorienting and

3:34

symptoms of all sorts

3:36

of psycho-emotional, mental, and

3:38

physical issues are

3:40

going to get

3:43

loud because our body is always talking

3:45

to us. Right

3:47

now, as I talk to you,

3:49

Katie, I feel a spaciousness in

3:51

my belly. I feel grounded through

3:53

my pelvic bowl. It's

3:55

like a little bit of fluttering in my chest

3:57

because I'm excited. But these are all.

4:00

messages from my body about what's going

4:02

on and the more I'm able to

4:04

be with what my body is saying

4:06

to me without

4:08

resisting it, without pushing it away or numbing

4:10

it out, the

4:13

more my body knows I'm safe,

4:16

the more psychologically my

4:18

mind can register the

4:22

ability to thrive, right?

4:24

So it's really about befriending our body

4:27

and dismantling the systems that we

4:30

have internalized from our culture

4:33

around, yeah, what

4:35

it means to be in

4:37

a body. That makes so much sense

4:40

and I love that you touched on for women

4:42

especially and how sort of our programming can affect

4:45

our nervous system state even if we don't realize it.

4:47

In fact, it seems like for a lot of women

4:49

this is sort of a silent track that's

4:51

always vending and I know

4:53

from following you online that there is

4:55

a link here to women especially for

4:57

reproductive health and I would

4:59

love for you to elaborate on this because

5:02

even if we're not trying to have babies,

5:04

I know like being in an optimal state

5:06

of fertility is also really important for physical

5:08

health and for so many things for hormones.

5:11

So can you talk about the link

5:13

between trauma or nervous system dysregulation and

5:16

reproductive issues? Yeah,

5:18

I would love to. So in

5:20

my own trauma healing journey,

5:23

my trauma very much manifested

5:25

in symptoms in my menstrual

5:27

cycle. I had pre-menstrual dysphoric

5:29

disorder which is basically like

5:31

PMS's evil twin sister. It's

5:34

like all your PMS symptoms on blast.

5:37

I had really painful

5:39

menstrual cramps, really

5:41

heavy bleeding and no

5:44

one could really tell me why. So

5:47

fast forward to like my early

5:49

20s, I decide I'm just going to go on the pill

5:51

even though my mom has told me you're going to hate

5:53

it and I

5:56

hated the pill and I know

5:58

it helps a lot of women. but it really

6:01

is just masking a lot of symptoms instead

6:03

of healing them at the root.

6:06

And it wasn't until I only lasted about

6:08

three months on the pill, I was like,

6:10

I feel like a crazy person, I cannot

6:12

do this. It was healing

6:15

my nervous system and

6:18

syncing with my cycle that gave

6:21

me the life I always dreamed

6:23

of living, not just because it was

6:26

symptom free, but because I was able

6:28

to harness the capacity of

6:30

my nervous system and my cyclicality

6:32

to really

6:35

put my dreams into fruition. And

6:38

I think there's this missing link between the

6:41

nervous system and its impact

6:43

on our fertility, on our

6:45

reproductive health. We are finally

6:47

starting to see more

6:49

research being done on how

6:52

trauma, because it lives in the nervous

6:54

system and the nervous

6:56

system drives our hormonal health really

6:59

can cause a lot

7:01

of issues with our

7:03

reproductive health. So I'm

7:06

really passionate about teaching

7:08

people, teaching women and

7:10

men about how

7:12

our nervous system really

7:15

opens up more communication

7:17

between our endocrine glands,

7:20

our hormonal health

7:22

really flourishes when we heal

7:25

the trauma and dysregulation that causes

7:28

our hormones to be thrown out of balance.

7:31

Yeah, I'll start there. That

7:33

makes sense. And it seems like this is a very

7:35

important thing to look at and to work with your

7:37

body on pre also, I like this is the work

7:40

I wish I could have done pre having kids have

7:42

quite a long list of if I could go back and

7:44

tell my young self, thanks. A lot of them would relate

7:46

to this. I feel like also there's

7:48

a misconception. There's a

7:50

whole lot of talk online right now about manifesting and

7:53

people wanting to sort of use this to their advantage.

7:55

But the approaches I see don't seem like they really

7:58

get to the root of it or the heart of

8:00

it like the things you're talking about like

8:02

not saying affirmations aren't awesome or that those

8:04

things aren't great as well. But

8:07

I know you explained this much better than I could

8:09

online but you explained how these things can only get

8:11

us so far that there's actually like a much deeper

8:13

part of that. So can you speak to what you

8:15

mean by that? Yeah, I would

8:17

love to and I think

8:20

it's important to really leave space for

8:22

whatever healing practices you love, go for

8:24

it. I'm not here to slam any

8:26

of them but I am here to

8:28

say there's a deeper source to

8:31

work with that is in

8:33

your nervous system and your body that actually gets

8:35

to the root. So when

8:37

it comes to affirmations or talking

8:39

about our problems, our trauma, our

8:42

stress, there is a certain

8:46

point that we will hit on that journey

8:48

where it feels like I'm doing all the

8:50

things, I'm talking about all the things, I'm

8:52

manifesting, I'm saying the right things but

8:55

nothing is really changing and I

8:57

just want to normalize that, it's not you,

9:00

right? It's not that you're failing at

9:02

affirmations or talk therapy or any of

9:04

these more mind-centered

9:07

modalities, it's that

9:10

only 20% of the

9:12

information moving between body and brain is

9:14

coming from the brain down. So

9:17

there is that 20%, it does matter but

9:19

it only takes us so far and I

9:21

know our last talk we talked about this

9:23

percentage. 80%

9:26

of the information moving from body to

9:28

brain is moving from the body up.

9:31

So if our nervous

9:34

system is

9:37

perceiving that we are still under

9:39

threat, that we need to stay

9:41

in those survival states, it's

9:43

going to be sending messages to our

9:46

brain that reflect that, that

9:48

feel like anxiety, like chronic

9:50

stress, like depression, like

9:53

shame, like self-criticism

9:56

and so we might be trying to reprogram

9:58

our thinking like, oh I'll just just say

10:00

this one thing that I read online over and over

10:02

again. But if our body is still

10:04

sending all of that information up to the brain

10:06

of we're not safe, causing us

10:09

to feel very different from

10:11

the affirmations that we're

10:13

saying, then the affirmations can't

10:15

work, right? The

10:17

talk therapy can only take us so far and

10:20

I love talk therapy by the way. If

10:24

we get into the body, feel

10:27

our emotions, our sensations that want

10:29

to be digested from our past

10:32

or our present, it clears up

10:34

more space for the communication to be. I

10:37

can thrive. I am

10:41

achieving what I want to achieve.

10:43

I am magnetic. Whatever the affirmation

10:45

is, we need our body to

10:47

be in alignment with

10:49

that. If it's not,

10:51

we're going to bump up into some

10:54

feelings of, why can't I get this

10:56

to work? Why won't it work? That

10:58

was me for a long time. Definitely

11:01

was me too. And I know we went

11:03

through some of the basics in our first episode on

11:05

ways to signal the body that it's safe. And I

11:08

think another part of this that you just touched on

11:10

is also learning to listen to the body and

11:13

to have that two-way communication because like you said,

11:16

80% of those messages come from the body. And

11:18

at least speaking for myself, I know I was

11:20

hugely disconnected from my body for a long time

11:23

and doctors would even say, oh, wow, you have

11:25

such a high pain tolerance. Which

11:27

looking back, I'm like, that's not always a

11:29

great thing. I was not in my body.

11:32

And when I learned how to be more intuitive by body, that

11:34

doesn't mean I can't handle pain now. But

11:36

it means I'm able to hear the signals that my

11:38

body's telling me, which is a healthy response. So

11:41

can you, I know we talked about some of

11:43

the basic modalities in the first episode, but can

11:46

you walk us through some of these ways that

11:48

we can really signal that safety, the modalities? I

11:50

know from having been through it, at least for

11:52

me, it was a learning process and a slow

11:54

one. It wasn't an overnight switch. And I didn't

11:56

just decide to be nervous system healthy. And it

11:58

happened. But it was building a friendship

12:01

with my body. So can you walk us through some of

12:03

the ways we can do that? Yeah,

12:05

you know, and I think that

12:08

really becoming your

12:10

body's friend is such a great way

12:12

to say it. So reflecting

12:15

on how you relate to your body

12:17

is huge. If I'm

12:19

disassociated, disconnected from what my body is

12:21

saying and I can't hear it, there's

12:24

going to be a lack of relationship there.

12:26

But that doesn't mean that I can't rebuild

12:28

that. So approaching your

12:30

relationship with your body like you

12:32

would any relationship. If

12:34

we've been disconnected for a long time, if

12:37

I've been really hard on my body,

12:39

I know this was me for a

12:41

while, I had disordered eating, I

12:44

could really think and say

12:46

some mean things about my body. It

12:49

was really easy for me to fall

12:52

into shame and self-criticism. And

12:55

so we do want to reprogram

12:59

our language and how

13:01

we dialogue with our body. And

13:03

like I said with any relationship, how do

13:05

you make amends? How do you make repair

13:08

with someone you

13:10

have hurt or ignored for

13:12

a long time? We want to start

13:14

by listening, by having

13:17

compassion, by showing our body

13:19

that we care. So for

13:22

example, my dad recently passed away and

13:24

I was about to share his eulogy

13:28

and I felt my heart start to race

13:30

before I went on the stage. And

13:34

in the past, even

13:36

in the last,

13:38

like before 10 years ago, I would have

13:40

gone, oh I don't want to feel this,

13:43

oh I don't want to feel this, I'm going

13:45

to ground my feet, I'm going to breathe deeply,

13:47

I'm going to make it go away, only to

13:50

feel my heart racing louder because it's doing its

13:52

job, it's trying to protect me, it perceives that

13:55

going up on the stage to share my dad's eulogy

13:57

is going to be scary. So

14:01

instead, I put my

14:03

hand on my heart and I said, I

14:05

believe you. I

14:07

believe you, body. Of

14:09

course you're trying to help

14:12

me stay safe right now. Of course you

14:14

are. You are

14:16

bracing against what's happening because it's

14:18

a lot. There's a lot

14:20

to feel here. And you

14:23

know, I'm saying this to myself internally,

14:25

right? And I just,

14:27

my heart just slowly calmed

14:29

down. And I got

14:32

to share the eulogy without it bracing the

14:34

whole time. So

14:36

I think when you feel

14:39

those sensations of tension, of

14:41

bracing, of contraction, of that

14:43

sympathetic charge that speeds up our

14:46

heart rate and gives us all

14:48

those bracing thoughts, right? Instead

14:50

of getting stuck in the story of, oh

14:52

my God, I'm about to go on stage.

14:54

I'm going to mess up. I can tell.

14:57

I'm too anxious. I can't do this,

14:59

right? And we get stuck in the story and

15:01

the meaning making in our mind when

15:04

our body is like, hey, hey, I'm trying to get

15:06

you to feel this. Just come

15:08

down here and be with this experience.

15:11

The more we can be with the

15:13

experience instead of resisting it or going

15:15

into some story around it, the

15:17

more our body knows we are present

15:20

with it. Those sensations

15:22

get to down regularly instead

15:25

of the body having to scream

15:28

to get our attention, right? That

15:31

makes sense. And I know a pitfall that I

15:33

also ran into when I started trying to focus

15:35

on healing was feeling guilty or

15:37

selfish, especially as a mom to take

15:39

time to do these things. And

15:41

so I wanted to speak to that a

15:43

little bit because I do feel like often

15:45

and maybe always women and mothers sort of

15:47

set the nervous system tone of the house.

15:50

And so if we're just regulated, that ripples

15:52

into our kids. But the flip side is

15:54

also true. We are more regulated. There

15:57

seems to be a pervasive sense of calm that can

15:59

exist in our whole. And it

16:01

also makes me think of all of these

16:03

lessons. I wish I had learned younger, how

16:05

can I help my kids build a solid

16:07

foundation for this and let that

16:09

learning experience for me turn into a blessing for

16:11

them? So can you speak to if people

16:14

feel guilty or selfish when they start making

16:16

time for this and in tandem with that,

16:18

how can we create a nervous system healthy

16:20

lifestyle for our kids from the beginning so

16:22

that maybe they aren't at my age trying

16:24

to figure out how to regulate their nervous

16:26

system for the first time? Yeah,

16:29

oh, this is so near and dear to

16:31

my heart as a mother. And

16:33

I share that same sentiment, Katie,

16:35

like there's so much I didn't know before

16:37

I had my first son. And

16:39

I see it. I do see it in his nervous

16:42

system. And we're doing a lot

16:44

and working together and he's made a lot

16:46

of progress. But to anyone who was like,

16:49

oh, wow, I didn't know this and

16:52

I can see how it's impacted my kids.

16:55

I just want to say that I have a

16:57

lot of compassion and you're not alone. And

17:00

you know, when we don't know what we don't

17:02

know, and what

17:04

matters is right now you are learning and

17:06

taking steps. So

17:09

I think that the guilt

17:11

thing is so real for mothers.

17:13

We've internalized this sense

17:15

of like, if I am

17:17

not self-sacrificing and modeling constant

17:20

productivity, then I'm somehow not worthy. I'm

17:22

not going to get my medals for

17:24

being the best mom ever. What

17:27

we know now is that without

17:30

enough nervous system capacity, we

17:32

actually cannot meet the needs of

17:35

those around us without burning

17:38

out, lashing out, feeling like

17:41

we are disconnected from ourselves, from

17:43

our body, feeling symptoms of, you

17:46

know, anxiety, depression. You

17:49

have to fill your cup first, right?

17:52

And we don't, this doesn't have to look like

17:54

I'm going to ignore everything around me. I'm doing

17:57

this from the time I wake up till I

17:59

go to bed. as I move through my

18:01

day. Like I loved your example of

18:03

going up and getting some sunshine. I think

18:06

oftentimes we see like, oh this is

18:08

my time before the practice

18:10

I do to feel better and then the rest of the

18:12

day I'm just gonna go go go. How

18:15

would it be to slow down and

18:17

have little micro moments of

18:20

slowness, of ease, of

18:22

connection with your body?

18:25

And that is where it

18:27

starts. Little digestible bits

18:29

add up to a full day

18:32

of regulation and that is gonna

18:34

ripple out into your family with

18:36

your partner, with your loved

18:38

ones, your kids. It's

18:40

going to create what's

18:42

called co-regulation. So

18:45

co-regulation is when two or

18:47

more nervous systems find safety

18:49

together. Find that ventral vagal

18:51

state where there's ease, there's

18:53

calm, there's placefulness, there's joy.

18:56

And if we are in a

18:59

dysregulated state, we cannot offer

19:01

our kids that co-regulation. Co-regulation

19:04

is a nervous system dialogue. It's

19:07

not what we're saying, it's

19:10

how we're saying it. It's our

19:12

body language. It's the body posture

19:14

we exhibit, the gestures we use

19:16

when we talk. Over

19:19

90% of communication is happening through

19:21

our body. So we

19:23

might memorize all the right lines

19:25

to say as a mom like,

19:28

oh well this whole parenting solution

19:31

told me to say this at

19:34

this time. It's not that that's bad, it's like

19:36

we could be saying all the right

19:38

things but communicating something completely different through

19:41

our body to our kids that

19:43

can cause them and they're highly perceptive little

19:45

creatures. They're like, you said that

19:47

you know it's okay but

19:50

I felt something completely different from

19:52

you. So just thinking about

19:54

how you can become more embodied and

19:56

how that will really ripple

19:59

out into your whole family and invite

20:02

them to be in their bodies and

20:04

feel regulated as well. Yeah,

20:07

such a great perspective. And

20:10

like I said, I know that ships can

20:12

be a slow building process, but absolutely worth

20:14

doing. Here's

20:17

a quick question for you. How did

20:19

you sleep last night? If your

20:22

battle for a good night's sleep feels relentless,

20:24

I have the answer. It's

20:26

a podcast called Sleepwave with meditations

20:28

and hypnosis created to help you

20:30

fall asleep. My

20:32

relaxation techniques will help you feel calm

20:35

and ready for sleep with soft music

20:37

that will help you fall asleep in

20:39

minutes. Most listeners never

20:41

hear the end of an episode. So

20:44

search Sleepwave on your favorite podcast

20:46

app and find out why over

20:48

a million people have fallen asleep

20:50

to my voice. I

20:54

know also it seems that nervous system health can

20:56

be a little different for each person. So

20:59

this is a little bit about finding the things that are going

21:01

to be the biggest needle movers for each

21:03

of us. But could you share maybe

21:05

what a great nervous system day looks like for

21:07

you or like when everything is in line and

21:09

you feel awesome, maybe some of the things that

21:11

help to give people a springboard into figuring out

21:13

their own practices? Yeah, I

21:16

love that. For me, having a slower

21:18

morning is always great. Having

21:21

some time to get outside

21:23

with my tea, get my feet

21:25

in the grass, sun on my

21:28

skin. It's really cold in Chicago right now, so

21:30

I'm just daydreaming about that. And

21:32

then connection. So I'm

21:34

connecting to my body. I

21:37

can feel and hear the

21:39

messages, the stories my nervous system is

21:41

saying on that day. And

21:44

my body is communicating ease and

21:47

calm and capacity

21:50

to get things done, but capacity to

21:52

rest. And so

21:54

ideally, there's waves throughout

21:56

our day of productivity, followed

21:59

by up regulation

22:02

followed by down regulation. We

22:05

want to create that ribbon in

22:08

order to recalibrate our nervous system. So

22:11

I'm taking breaks. I'm not seeing my

22:14

clients back to back with no time

22:16

to eat. I

22:18

have done this before. I don't recommend it.

22:21

Right? There's breaks. Even if they're tiny breaks,

22:23

they really add up. And

22:29

that creates a sense of safety

22:31

and connection with others. So being

22:33

around people who you know, radiate

22:38

safety, radiate playfulness.

22:40

They give you that sense of ease just

22:43

by being them. Those are

22:45

the people or the animals or the

22:47

trees that you want to spend time

22:49

with to really receive

22:51

that co-radulatory experience. And

22:54

then noticing like who are the people

22:56

when I'm with them that my body

22:58

braces and tenses and

23:00

doesn't feel safe. Just

23:02

something to get curious about. Right? So

23:06

if I could some day, maybe

23:10

ideal nervous system day, it would be just

23:12

that rhythm of we get

23:14

sipped on and we must. We

23:16

activate, we deactivate. Right? Yes,

23:19

absolutely. And learning that rhythm and

23:21

like all these practices that you mentioned, it's

23:24

that slow friendship with our body.

23:26

Learning that rhythm, finding more grace, ease

23:28

and joy in our daily lives and

23:30

letting that stress slowly disarm. I know also

23:32

for me it was helpful if you have

23:34

a very specific trauma like I like you,

23:36

I don't discount talk therapy but I did

23:39

find it was helpful to work with practitioners

23:41

who could go beyond talk therapy

23:43

into addressing that trauma. And

23:45

that's obviously something too nuanced for us to

23:47

really solve in a podcast episode but I

23:49

know you have a tremendous amount of

23:52

resources available for this and I'm personally very excited

23:54

to get to keep learning from you. So for

23:57

anybody who wants to learn along with me from

23:59

you, where can they find you online and where

24:01

would you recommend they start? Yeah,

24:03

so I have a website

24:06

waking-womb.com. You can find

24:08

all my offerings there and I do

24:10

offer a lot of education on my

24:12

Instagram. So my Instagram

24:14

is wakingwomb and

24:17

I have a free resource, a

24:19

free pop-up podcast for everybody at

24:22

thetruthabouttriggers.com

24:25

and it's a pop-up

24:27

podcast, a three-part podcast where you're

24:30

going to learn all about triggers and how to

24:32

heal them through your nervous system designed

24:34

specifically for women. And

24:36

that link will be in the show notes as well for

24:39

all of you guys who are listening on the go or

24:41

driving kids. I know that's how I often consume podcasts. I'll

24:43

make sure you guys can find it. Please come learn

24:46

along with me. But for now, Veronica, thank you so

24:48

much. Like I said in the beginning, I think this

24:50

topic is so important and as

24:52

you explained so well, especially for women.

24:55

So to all the women and moms listening, I hope

24:57

this is an amazing starting point to begin this journey.

25:00

Thank you for sharing and for your wisdom today. Thank

25:02

you so much, Katie. And

25:05

thank you as always for listening

25:07

and sharing your most valuable resources,

25:09

your time, your energy and your attention

25:11

with us today. We're both so

25:13

grateful that you did and I hope that you

25:16

will join me again on the next episode of

25:18

the Wellness Mama podcast. If

25:21

you're enjoying these interviews, would you please take two

25:23

minutes to leave a rating or review on iTunes

25:25

for me? Doing this helps

25:27

more people to find the podcast, which means even

25:29

more moms and families could benefit from the information.

25:32

I really appreciate your time and thanks as always

25:34

for listening.