0:03

We all come in and Pack eventually comes

0:06

into the meeting about five ten minutes late,

0:08

and he sits down, and I remember

0:10

him saying, in this very kind

0:13

of cliche, sort

0:15

of double O seven, evil villain

0:17

kind of way, this is the

0:19

beginning of a process.

0:22

Grant Turner is talking about the first meeting

0:24

he and his colleagues had with their new boss,

0:27

a man named Michael Pack. It's

0:30

June twenty twenty, and Pack

0:32

is the controversial political appointee

0:35

of President Donald Trump, newly

0:37

installed to run the US Agency

0:39

for Global Media or USAGM,

0:42

where Grant Turner is the CFO.

0:46

The agency runs a number of media networks

0:48

outside the United States, the best

0:50

known being Voice of America. They

0:53

broadcast all over the world, but are

0:55

especially focused on countries where

0:57

authoritarian regimes make a free

0:59

press impossible. And

1:01

Grant is a real believer in the mission

1:04

the agency. I think of his kind of a gift

1:06

of American values to

1:08

people around the world. We're demonstrating

1:11

that it's very important that this

1:14

unique part of a democratic

1:16

society function well, and that it's

1:18

nonpartisan, that it's not a mouthpiece

1:21

for the government. Throughout

1:23

his time in office, President Trump has often

1:26

bumped up against this kind of attitude

1:28

that various government agencies operate

1:30

with so called norms like independence

1:34

or nonpartisanship, like the idea

1:36

that the FBI or Intelligence community

1:39

are quote unquote a political

1:42

But it seems like the President finds this idea

1:44

to be quaint or deeply

1:47

frustrating. Anyway, he doesn't

1:49

like it. Why shouldn't USAGM

1:52

be a mouthpiece for the government. And

1:56

another thing, it's year four

1:58

of this administration, and the President

2:01

is really sick of the media.

2:04

The constant carping from the failing

2:06

New York Times, the hostile coverage

2:08

on CNN. It's hard to

2:10

know exactly when it dawns on the President that

2:13

the US government actually has its

2:15

own news organization and that the

2:17

head of that organization is appointed

2:20

by the President himself. But

2:22

now his guy, Michael Pack

2:25

is in the job, and Pack has

2:27

plans to shake things up. He's

2:29

at the beginning of a process, he

2:31

says, and the journalists at USAGM

2:34

are about to find out exactly

2:36

what that means. I'm

2:41

Miles Taylor, and this is the

2:44

whistleblowers on

2:46

this show. We're going deep into the heart of power

2:48

to meet people who spoke out about wrongdoing

2:51

from inside the Trump administration. They

2:53

all had different red lines. Some of

2:55

them came forward immediately, while

2:57

others agonized for months, even

3:00

years. But in the end, they

3:02

all made the decision that sharing the truth

3:05

was worth the potential blowback. Now,

3:08

most whistleblowers we've heard from so far

3:10

in this series had to face that struggle

3:12

alone, but in this story,

3:15

the fight to share the truth was a collective

3:17

one. Episode

3:22

seven packed and

3:25

sacked. The

3:31

mission for the US Agency for Global Media

3:33

and its flagship network, the Voice

3:35

of America, actually goes back to the nineteen

3:38

forties.

3:39

Here's grant really is kind

3:41

of born out of sort of World War Two

3:44

and American efforts during World War Two

3:46

to talk to people who are engaged

3:49

in that great clash, and really

3:51

it's sort of matured during the Cold

3:54

War, in particular talking

3:56

to people who are living behind the Iron

3:59

curtain.

4:01

Is a voice speaking from America, the

4:04

voice from America at war.

4:06

The news may be good or bad.

4:09

We shall tell you the.

4:10

Truth, like you hear in that clip

4:12

from Voice of America broadcast

4:14

during World War II. The basic

4:16

premise is that this news organization

4:19

is committed to providing uncensored

4:21

news coverage without a political agenda,

4:24

and though that mission was especially important

4:27

during the Cold War, it's continued

4:29

to this day. Libby

4:31

lu was president of Radio Free

4:33

Asia. Like Voice of America,

4:35

it's another network run by USAGM.

4:39

She believes that the agency's work today

4:42

is just as significant as it was decades

4:44

ago.

4:45

Radiofri Asia's mission is to provide

4:48

uncensored news and information to people

4:50

living in repressive environments in

4:53

Asia. So this would be

4:55

China, North Korea, Me

4:57

and mar and Tibet. So

5:00

these are people that are gas

5:03

lit by state controlled

5:06

media and the truth

5:08

resonates.

5:09

For example, Radio Free

5:12

Asia has covered the repression and detention

5:14

of China's weaker population, the

5:17

fact that Chinese state media definitely

5:19

would not admit. Here's one

5:21

of those pieces.

5:23

This video footage is extremely

5:26

important because this is a real

5:29

video footage of China transferring

5:31

Weiger detainees. There are a handicuffed,

5:33

a blind folded. There had shaved.

5:37

But now in twenty twenty, with the pandemic

5:40

raging and the economy in free fall,

5:42

there's a lot of news coming out of the United States

5:45

that's not great. VOA reports

5:48

the nuts and Bolts of the pandemic's devastating

5:50

impact on Americans to audiences

5:53

around the world in dozens

5:55

of languages. But President

5:57

Trump, who's running for re election, doesn't

6:00

want that negative news spreading outside

6:02

of the United States, and he reacts

6:04

like he often does. He takes it

6:07

personally, and like he's prone

6:09

to do, he goes on the attack.

6:12

If you heard what's coming out of the Voice of

6:14

America, it's disgusting. What

6:17

things they say are disgusting toward

6:19

our country. And Michael Pack

6:21

would get in. He do a great job.

6:24

The President mentions Michael Pack because

6:26

his candidate for the top job

6:28

at USAGM has been tied

6:31

up in Senate confirmation hearings for

6:33

years, and Trump is very

6:35

eager to get Pack into USAGM

6:38

and shift the focus of the agency's news

6:40

coverage, make it a little more, let's

6:42

say, fair and balanced.

6:45

He's been sucking committee for two years,

6:47

preventing us from managing the

6:50

Voice of America very important. Can't

6:52

get him.

6:52

Approved, But why

6:55

is Pack having trouble getting confirmed? Pack

6:58

is a documentary filmmaker and

7:00

also runs a nonprofit filmmaking

7:02

organization called Public Media

7:04

Lab. The resume sounds thin, but

7:07

otherwise okay. NPR

7:10

media correspondent David Folkenflick

7:12

covered USAGM under Michael Pack.

7:15

I asked him to explain why Pack

7:17

was such a contentious choice.

7:18

There were concerns as the months went on about

7:21

his honesty and integrity. There were questions

7:23

of whether he had hidden he had funneled

7:25

not for profit Foundation grant

7:27

money donations through

7:29

a nonprofit that he and his wife controlled

7:32

into the for profit documentary

7:35

outfit that he was running.

7:36

The documentary outfit is also most

7:39

well known at the time for a glowing

7:41

documentary about Justice Clarence

7:43

Thomas, with unprecedented access

7:45

to the reclusive judge. This

7:48

raises some eyebrows too, as USAGM

7:50

is supposed to be strictly firewalled from

7:53

any association with politics, and

7:55

Pack's relationship with a certain Maga

7:57

flamethrower doesn't help him either.

8:00

He had also been linked to Steve

8:02

Bannon, someone notable for

8:04

his contempt for

8:07

norms of journalism. He clearly saw

8:10

news outlets as political cudgels

8:12

to wield.

8:13

Bannon also once called Voice of America

8:16

and I quote a rotten fish

8:19

from top to bottom unquote,

8:22

So you know where he stands.

8:24

Democrats really had some real issues with the

8:26

degree of ideology that he seemed

8:28

to bring to the job, with his ties to Bannon,

8:31

who was not only ideological but partisan

8:33

in a way that is not in keeping

8:35

with the best traditions and principles

8:37

of Voice of America.

8:43

But in the summer of twenty twenty, Pack

8:45

finally does make it through the process.

8:48

He's confirmed by the Senate and takes

8:50

over as CEO of USAGM.

8:54

Employees are wary about their new boss,

8:57

but as Grant Turner describes it, Pack

8:59

is more them a little wary about

9:01

them.

9:02

There was some kind of very strange paranoia

9:05

with this team that came

9:07

in where they just kind of didn't trust anyone.

9:10

They certainly didn't.

9:10

Trust the folks who were career civil servants

9:13

like myself. We were sort of branded

9:15

as a deep state loyalists

9:18

that were secretly all Democrats

9:20

who are trying to subvert

9:23

the Trump administration. And as someone

9:25

who's made my way in DC helping

9:27

administrations of both sides

9:30

of the aisle, I knew that was you

9:32

know, that was incorrect.

9:34

Grant decides to go into the first meeting

9:36

with Pack keeping an open mind. This

9:39

is the meeting where Pack talks about the beginning

9:41

of a process, and that process

9:44

starts almost as soon as the meeting is

9:46

over. That's because

9:49

Pack and his team start firing

9:51

everyone. Media whisper

9:54

Brian Stelter of CNN reported

9:56

on the widespread sackings.

9:59

He fired the heads the Office of Cuba

10:01

Broadcasting, Middle East Broadcasting

10:03

Networks, Radio Free Europe, Radio Liberty,

10:05

Radio Free Asia, and the Open Technology

10:07

Fund. Pack said in a MEMOTA staffer

10:10

is that he is fully committed to honoring VOA's

10:12

charter, the missions of the grantees, and

10:14

the independence of our heroic journalists

10:17

around the world.

10:19

Libby Lou is running the Open Technology

10:22

Fund at this point, another USAGM

10:25

agency dedicated to promoting

10:27

Internet freedom. She decides to

10:29

resign before she's fired. Now,

10:32

look, lots of new leaders come in

10:34

and clean house, but these first

10:36

moves by Michael Pack and his team seem

10:39

motivated by something specific.

10:42

I asked David Fulkenflick to

10:44

explain why certain journalists like Libby

10:46

Lou were forced out or fired.

10:49

It was anybody who said, look, you can't do it

10:51

that way. You might be breaking the law,

10:54

or this isn't the way this gets done.

10:56

Or this isn't something that's an appropriate role

10:58

for the over site part of

11:00

the agency that administers

11:03

these networks. He was convinced

11:05

that everybody there was against him

11:07

had been working against him. It

11:09

was very Nixonian levels of paranoia.

11:12

He's just as suspicious about potential

11:15

never Trump allies as he is

11:17

of those who might be progressives. One

11:20

of the staffers he fires is Radio

11:22

Freeze CEO Jamie Fly,

11:25

a former aid to Marco Rubio

11:27

and Jeb Bush. And firing

11:30

senior staffers is just one move.

11:33

Starving the beast, meaning not

11:35

providing the money to various news departments

11:38

is another. As CFO

11:40

Grant Turner is especially close to this

11:42

issue, and he's alarmed by what he

11:44

sees.

11:45

I'm the one who's providing the money in the cfo's

11:47

office to all of our networks. I couldn't get

11:49

approval to send any money to anyone.

11:52

I'm kind of just jumping up and down

11:54

saying these people aren't going to be able to make their payroll.

11:57

But pack and company have another ten

12:00

that has a much more devastating human

12:03

cost.

12:03

They were denying visas to Jay

12:05

One visa holders people we have brought to this

12:07

country because of their language skills to

12:10

help us communicate to the vast

12:12

audiences we have around the world. And if we

12:14

didn't extend their visas, they would

12:16

have to go back to their country, where some of them

12:18

would be in grave danger because

12:21

of the broadcasting they did.

12:22

Hear a Voice of America Libby

12:25

lou.

12:26

Everybody that works

12:28

to produce the content, and Radiopreasia

12:32

is an enemy of the States. So

12:34

they are living in perpetual

12:37

danger.

12:39

But some of them are going back to places where you

12:41

know, they could be harassed, they could be imprisoned,

12:43

they could be killed. We have a wall in

12:45

our building which is covered with all the

12:47

journalists who died, and

12:49

the fact that it was so cavalier about

12:52

that, I just thought it was just a really terrible

12:55

moral thing for him to do.

12:57

David fulknflick again.

13:00

Three Voice America employees and contractors

13:02

lost their positions because Pack refused

13:04

to authorize an extension or to sponsor a change

13:06

in their immigration status. They

13:08

found themselves jobless, and

13:10

then at a certain point they found themselves visiless.

13:14

The journalist David speaks to are

13:16

in deep distress.

13:17

I talked to people in tears. There were people

13:19

who had to return

13:22

home, and I have not tracked

13:24

what happened with all of them.

13:26

We were also unable to verify what

13:29

happened to these journalists after they were

13:31

sent home, in some cases to

13:33

hostile countries. It's

13:36

just a month into Pack's tenure and

13:38

it's hard to imagine how things could

13:40

get worse, but they

13:42

do. Michael

13:51

Pack is firing people and others are

13:54

resigning, but he's also making some

13:56

interesting new hires. According

13:58

to Grant Turner.

13:59

He brought a guye I used to kind of run a

14:01

very right wing radio talk

14:03

show out of Florida. He kind

14:05

of dress up in a full Arab

14:08

outfit and sort of hosts this sort of jahatty

14:10

show segment on his network.

14:14

This Florida talk show host, Frank

14:16

Wuco had done segments on

14:18

his show that included racist

14:20

comments about President Barack Obama's

14:23

quote Kenyan heritage and

14:25

sexist bits about Nancy Pelosi's

14:27

botox. He actually came

14:29

into the administration at the Department of

14:31

Homeland Security, where I briefly encountered

14:34

him. Frank was controversial to

14:36

say the least, and DHS leaders

14:38

tried to get rid of him, but in typical

14:40

fashion, the white House just

14:43

moved him somewhere else. Frank

14:45

winds up at USAGM as

14:47

a top advisor again,

14:50

David Fulkenflick.

14:52

Pack appointed boards that

14:54

were stocked with figures with very

14:58

hardline ideological belief thiefs.

15:00

The group included a guy his senior counsel

15:03

to the conservative Christian evangelical

15:05

group Liberty Council Action, which has

15:07

really been strongly active

15:09

against gay and trans rights. He

15:12

named a woman who was at that time a senior aid

15:14

at the US Agency for International Development who

15:16

is an anti transactivist, and he

15:19

named you know, others with ties

15:21

to the Trump administration. Two of the people

15:23

he appointed have ties to groups that were publicly

15:25

advocating on behalf of Trump's completely

15:27

baseless claims of widespread voter fraud

15:29

in twenty.

15:30

Twenty, maybe most notably,

15:32

Pack brings in someone named Sam Dewey.

15:36

Here's grant.

15:37

He was one of the first folks who came

15:39

in. He was a lawyer, but he was in

15:41

fact basically just a senior advisor

15:44

to Michael Pack.

15:46

And the person had to.

15:48

Surrender his firearms in Maryland

15:50

because he threatened to kill his father and

15:52

then kill himself.

15:54

David Fulkenflick again, he

15:56

threatened I believe

15:59

his father.

16:00

He did so in specific detail about

16:02

the weapon he'd use and other things, and it

16:04

was pretty graphic, to the point where

16:06

the father took out a restraining

16:08

order.

16:10

I feel like that kind of thing usually disqualifies

16:13

someone for government employment. But

16:16

norms are made to be broken, I guess. And

16:19

as troubling as all of this is, Grant's

16:21

team actually has a more immediate concern

16:24

because the reason that Sam Dewey has

16:26

been hired is to investigate

16:28

the agency itself for its

16:31

alleged bias against the president

16:33

and his agenda.

16:35

So there were people at USAGM

16:38

who, once that was known, became very

16:40

uneasy with the idea that this was the guy who was

16:42

investigating them.

16:45

Yeah, that's kind of fair.

16:48

My job really is to

16:51

drain the swamp, to root out corruption and

16:53

to deal with these issues of bias.

16:57

Like he says in that interview for the Conservative

16:59

News website, the Federalist Pack

17:01

is there to weed out journalists within USAGM

17:04

that he believes are part of this liberal deep

17:07

state apparatus. One of the

17:09

first is the head of Voice of America's

17:11

news coverage for Iran satarre

17:14

Deshesh sig.

17:15

I'm setoire de Rachesh. I was

17:17

the director of the Voice of America Persian

17:19

service for about eight years.

17:23

Satari grew up in Iran in the nineteen

17:25

sixties and seventies, a turbulent

17:28

time that led to the ouster of the Shah

17:30

of Iran and ushered in the

17:32

Islamic Republic led by an authoritarian

17:35

cleric named Rhala Komani.

17:38

For anyone aligned with the former regime,

17:41

it was a treacherous moment.

17:42

I was born in Iran in a political

17:45

family. My father was a renowned

17:47

pro democracy secular politician.

17:50

He dedicated his life to the struggle for education

17:52

reform and political reform in Iran.

17:55

He was sentenced to death by Romani,

17:57

the founder of the Iranian Revolution, when

17:59

he refured used to work with him and the Islamic

18:01

regime. So we came to the United States

18:03

when my family was forced to flee iron

18:06

and we were given political asylum in

18:08

this country.

18:10

Satari experienced the value

18:12

of Voice of America's independent news

18:14

coverage in a very personal way.

18:17

When my father was arrested.

18:20

I heard about his arrest on the Voice

18:22

of America and that compelled me

18:24

to go work for

18:26

organizations that speak the truth.

18:29

I took my beliefs and

18:31

my work to the Voice of America so

18:33

I could speak directly to the Iranian people,

18:38

just.

18:38

Like the other journalists Grant and

18:40

Libby Leo described. Satarre

18:43

was aware of the personal risk that came

18:45

with this decision.

18:46

When we launched our

18:49

first television program in two thousand and three,

18:51

I was anchor and managing

18:53

editor for that program, and I was really the

18:55

face of the Voice of America Persian. That

18:58

was a time when my colleagues would not even put

19:00

their names on the credits. And from

19:02

that year on I

19:05

was a target of smear

19:08

campaigns by the Iranan government. I

19:10

have been designated in Iran as the enemy

19:13

of the state, and I received

19:15

death threats. I'm on their

19:17

blacklist. I can never go back to Iran.

19:20

Satari had been at Voice of America for twenty

19:22

five years, and she expected

19:25

smear campaigns and threats of

19:27

retaliation from the Iranian regime.

19:29

That was par for the course, but she

19:32

didn't expect it from her own agency.

19:34

Her internal alarm started to go off

19:37

even before Pack took over.

19:38

It was September of twenty nineteen I

19:40

received an email from a newly

19:43

appointed State Department official who was

19:45

a Trump loyalist. The email was

19:47

in reference to what and how

19:49

the coverage should be done. I thought that

19:51

there was a clear attempt to wanting to

19:53

change the coverage. I immediately

19:56

alerted my supervisor and

19:58

the head of programming and the leadership.

20:01

I responded to the email, letting the person know that

20:03

I could discuss process, but not editorial.

20:07

There are other issues Satari brings to

20:09

management's attention before Pack's arrival,

20:12

incidents where she feels the administration

20:14

is trying to run interference on her team's

20:16

news coverage. But when Pack

20:18

takes charge, her concerns skyrocket.

20:22

One of the first people who Pack fires is

20:24

the standards editor for Voice of America,

20:27

whose job it is to make sure the news

20:29

coverage complies with journalistic

20:31

ethics. Right away, satarre

20:34

files a complaint. It's a move

20:36

that involves some risk.

20:38

I was warned by my colleagues

20:40

at USAGM and at VOA, and

20:43

from people from outside that I should

20:45

be careful that I

20:47

was going to get retaliated against for

20:49

raising these issues.

20:52

And those people are right. Retaliation

20:55

is quick.

20:57

They had asked obviously of the Inspector General

20:59

all files complaints ever received

21:01

in the agency dude during the last fifteen

21:04

years about me. They went over

21:06

my emails from twenty twelve and

21:10

they were looking for anything that could

21:12

be used to initiate a

21:14

dismissal process against me.

21:17

Pack's team then tells Satare they

21:20

have found six anonymous complaints,

21:23

all recently filed, which they

21:25

say are grounds for her suspension. They

21:28

include allegations that she's fabricated

21:30

her resume and used her connections

21:33

to hook up friends and family members

21:35

with jobs, and they go public

21:37

with these so called findings by sharing

21:39

them with conservative news outlets. A

21:42

spokesperson for Pack tells the press quote,

21:45

this is the fox guarding the hen house.

21:47

Sigg's record of mismanagement and deception

21:50

are irrefutable. None of these

21:53

complaints have any substance for

21:55

Satare. The personal attacks

21:57

and their effect on her professional reputation

22:00

are one thing, but worse is

22:02

the self inflicted damage the agency

22:05

is doing to its own mission.

22:07

This is the best gift for the Iranian

22:09

regime. They used to continuously

22:14

speak about how you know, there

22:16

was turmoil inside VOA. There

22:18

was you know, infighting and anything

22:20

that they could find, and this

22:23

was an easy way for them to

22:25

say, look, we told you so, and

22:28

that was the worst weapon

22:31

they could use against the Voice of

22:33

America.

22:37

By the end of August twenty twenty, Michael

22:40

Pack has shown that he can be incredibly

22:42

effective at purging people.

22:45

Satare is under investigation, Libby

22:48

is out, and many others. But

22:51

there's still a major thorn in his side.

22:54

Grant Turner, the man in

22:56

charge of the money.

22:57

They were aware that I was raising issues of

23:00

a big concern. They knew

23:02

that what they were doing was wrong.

23:04

How exactly did Michael Pack and his team

23:07

know what they were doing was wrong because

23:10

their CFO kept telling them.

23:13

Part of being a whistleblower is you have to tell your management

23:15

chain what they're doing wrong. The Hill

23:17

was already reaching out to them, saying, we want

23:20

to talk with you who have concerns about stuff

23:22

that's happening.

23:23

The Hill as in Capitol Hill,

23:26

which means Congress is getting involved.

23:29

David's side is an attorney with the Government Accountability

23:31

Project who works with whistleblowers,

23:34

including Grant.

23:35

As CFO, he's in charge of

23:37

the budget, He's in charge of asking

23:40

the Congress for money and spending the money

23:42

the Congress appropriates, and time

23:44

and again, he went to mister packin said, look,

23:46

you know you've decided

23:48

to cancel an agency's funding,

23:52

but you can't do that.

23:53

But Pack and his team are creative, and

23:56

they finally come up with a way to fire Grant

23:58

along with four others.

24:00

They came across this solution

24:03

that if they pulled all of our security clearances

24:05

and said that we shouldn't have security clearances,

24:08

that they could remove us from our jobs. Our

24:10

position description said Grant, for you

24:12

to serve as CFO, you need to have a security

24:14

clearance. So if they pulled the security clearance, then

24:16

I couldn't serve in my job anymore.

24:19

And that ended up being kind of this magic wand

24:22

that they kind of wave over the

24:24

half dozen senior staff at the agency

24:26

and get us out of the way.

24:28

It's a nifty bureaucratic catch twenty

24:30

two. They can only be employed

24:32

in their roles if they have security clearances

24:35

for access to classified information, and

24:38

management decides that their security

24:40

clearances are out of date. In

24:42

fact, Pack says that Grant and others

24:45

are responsible for systemic

24:47

security failures at the agency, and

24:49

even goes so far as to imply that

24:51

they might be in cahoots with foreign governments.

24:54

He alludes to this theory on the conservative

24:56

news website The Federalist.

25:00

The security lapses are I think pretty

25:02

shocking. Foreign intelligence agencies

25:04

from beginning at the creation of these agencies

25:06

have been interested in penetrating them. To be a journalist

25:08

is a great cover for a spy. This agency

25:11

is right all these problems. Yeah, there's

25:13

way more than I thought.

25:15

David's side, to be escorted from

25:17

the building that you've worked in for ten years

25:19

and told you have no more duties

25:21

than to stay home is a horrible

25:24

experience for anyone, let alone

25:26

someone with a sterling reputation who

25:29

had no reason to be victimized

25:31

the way he was.

25:33

I'm sure that doesn't feel great, but

25:35

for Grant it's actually a moment

25:37

of mixed emotions.

25:39

There was some relief because every

25:41

day you're just observing all this kind

25:43

of you know, incompetence and carnage around

25:46

you and just kind of nastiness, and

25:49

it was just, frankly, a relief not

25:52

to have to see these really awful

25:55

humans.

25:56

That relief is short lived, because

25:59

Grant knows he can't just walk

26:01

away.

26:08

It wasn't just going to happen under

26:11

cover of darkness and no one would ever know

26:14

the horrible things that were going on. I wasn't

26:16

just going to let them wreck the agency

26:18

and sit silently by.

26:23

I talked to the Government Accountability Project.

26:26

I wanted to make sure I did it the right way,

26:28

and I wanted to make sure very

26:31

much that it was bipartisan.

26:33

So Grant meets with whistleblower attorney

26:36

David's side and decides to file

26:38

an official complaint against Pack, and

26:40

all things considered, Grant feels

26:42

pretty confident.

26:43

I wasn't too fearful. I don't

26:45

know if it's because maybe I'm a little bit older, I'm further

26:48

long in my career,

26:50

or because the volume has already been turned

26:52

to eleven right.

26:54

And also Grant's not alone. In

26:57

addition to the managers fired alongside

27:00

him for security clearances, Satare

27:02

also files a complaint with the Government

27:05

Accountability Project over wrongful

27:07

retaliation. Satare.

27:09

Again, I wasn't by myself, and that

27:11

was very very good, very comforting.

27:15

We had two excellent lawyers,

27:18

one was Mark Zaid and one was

27:20

David's side, with them on our

27:22

side. On my side, I

27:24

knew that we were going to get.

27:25

Through David's

27:28

side.

27:28

We represent well over two dozen Voice

27:31

of America and USAGM clients

27:33

during this period, and without

27:36

exception, each of them were victimized

27:39

for doing nothing, for doing their job.

27:42

Democrats and Republicans on Capitol

27:45

Hill are alarmed to hear what's

27:47

going on inside USAGM

27:49

and this effort to turn the agency into

27:51

a partisan mouthpiece. Ironically,

27:54

it becomes a rare moment of bipartisanship.

27:57

Some of the people who are most infuriated

28:00

with Michael Pack and his management of the agency

28:02

were the Republicans on

28:05

the Hill, people who've worked

28:07

with our agency for many years

28:09

and realize that it's important.

28:12

In September twenty twenty, Democratic

28:15

Congressman Elliott Angele and Republican

28:18

Michael McCall convene a hearing

28:20

of the House Foreign Affairs Committee where

28:22

they hear testimony from Grant and his colleagues

28:25

after three months of turmoil at the agency.

28:28

After being fired after being attacked,

28:31

Grant gets to say his piece publicly.

28:35

In the two and a half months I worked under mister Pack,

28:37

he repeatedly breached the firewall

28:39

designed to protect journalists and editors from

28:42

political influence. Based on

28:44

what I've witnessed, from small issues to very big

28:46

ones, I don't believe mister Pack and his team came

28:48

to run the agency. I don't

28:50

think they even like it. This just isn't

28:52

what normal people do.

28:54

We obviously had a lot of support

28:57

from Congress across

28:59

the aisles. Libby lu Grill

29:02

was so grounded as a person

29:05

that he was able to

29:07

take things in stride and just keep

29:10

moving forward.

29:11

Satarre sick.

29:12

He was actually the only person

29:16

who went in front of Congress and

29:18

testified. He was brave to

29:21

do that, and Grant represented

29:24

everyone.

29:27

David folkenflick again.

29:30

When you had people come forward out of the

29:32

shadows and speak for the record

29:34

by their name and give voice to what

29:36

was happening inside and present

29:39

this not as deep state, faceless

29:43

bureaucrats, but human beings who

29:45

have given years of their life to

29:48

the federal government. It caires a different tone.

29:51

As for Michael Pack, he defies

29:53

a Congressional subpoena and he doesn't

29:55

appear, But thanks to Grant's

29:57

testimony, Congress feels they have

30:00

plenty of material to make a decision

30:02

to investigate.

30:03

It allowed lawmakers

30:06

in Congress who had concerns

30:08

to articulate them. Also, it was bipartisan

30:10

at times. Michael McFall of Texas on the House

30:12

side, had real concerns about the independence

30:14

and voice of America and it then triggered,

30:16

of course, serious investigations from the Inspector

30:19

General's office at State Department.

30:22

The courts also get involved. One

30:24

of the lawsuits filed on behalf of Grant

30:27

Satare and the rest of the team results

30:29

in a federal judge ruling that Pack's

30:31

executive actions at the agency were

30:34

unconstitutional.

30:35

When lawsuits were filed, it allowed

30:38

a federal judge to weigh in and

30:41

say that not only what Pack

30:43

was doing was wrong, but unconstitutional,

30:46

and that really had a clarion call. A federally

30:48

appointed judge, in absolutely

30:51

unmistakable terms, is

30:54

articulating that what is happening

30:57

is against the American Constitution

31:00

because it's violating the free speech precepts

31:02

embedded in the notion of what journalists

31:05

do, and even when they work for the federal

31:07

government in this case, especially because they worked

31:09

for the federal government.

31:12

When Joe Biden takes office in January

31:14

twenty twenty one, he has a long

31:16

to do list but

31:18

close to the top of that list is

31:20

USAGM prison.

31:22

Biden's first act was to remove Michael

31:24

Pack. He did that within the first hour after his

31:26

inauguration.

31:27

And a little over a month later, Grant

31:30

Is reinstalled as the CFO.

31:32

Ultimately, it was the election that

31:35

mattered. If President Trump had

31:37

had won the election in November,

31:40

Michael Pack would still be there.

31:42

Satare is also cleared to return.

31:45

I got a letter

31:47

from Labor Relations saying that

31:50

they're coming back.

31:51

Satari is cleared of all of the allegations

31:54

that have been leveled against her, including

31:56

each of the anonymous complaints which are

31:58

proven to be baseless, and she gets

32:00

to rejoin Voice of America.

32:02

I'm currently serving as director of Program

32:04

Review and special assistant

32:07

to the Program Director at

32:09

USAGM's Voice of America. It

32:11

was as if I had never left.

32:15

On May tenth, twenty twenty three,

32:17

Grant, Satare and

32:20

their colleagues got the final validation

32:22

they needed. That's when the US

32:24

Office of the Special Council notified

32:27

President Biden that they had determined,

32:29

after an eighteen month independent

32:31

investigation, that the whistleblower

32:34

reports of abuses by political

32:36

operatives installed at the Voice

32:38

of America, it's sibling networks

32:41

and its oversight agency USAGM

32:44

were true. It's

32:47

a happy ending, But libbylu

32:49

thinks the agency was saved only

32:52

just in time.

32:53

If the networks had started spewing

32:56

propaganda, I

32:58

think that that would have been disasters.

33:01

The reason the audiences will risk

33:04

their lives to listen to the

33:06

news that we're broadcasting is

33:08

because their own governments are

33:10

distorting their reality. So

33:13

basically, if on

33:15

the side of the informers, you

33:18

also put that propaganda in, then

33:21

the whole thing is worthless and

33:23

they can smell it.

33:25

But Libby also believes there's something about

33:27

the culture of USAGM that's

33:30

stronger than any single person who

33:32

may try to bend it to suit a

33:34

political agenda.

33:36

People that grow up in propagonistic societies

33:38

they know propaganda. That's why the truth

33:41

is so resonant. But the

33:43

editorial, the journalists,

33:46

they had a deep understanding about

33:48

what they're doing and why they're doing it, So

33:51

that would take longer than Michael

33:53

Pack to destroy.

33:58

More information has continued to bubble

34:01

up about the craziness of Michael Pack's

34:03

tenure. For example, during

34:05

his reign in November twenty twenty it

34:07

was reported that staffers in his office

34:09

building were caught having sex against

34:11

the windows, and a video was then leaked

34:14

to The Daily Caller. Employees

34:16

say they have since learned Pack's team

34:18

tried to point the fingers at the agency's

34:21

civil servants, claiming without evidence

34:23

that the couple must have worked at

34:25

Voice of America.

34:27

The Pack folks try to suggest

34:29

that it was VOA. Just when you think it, you

34:31

can't get any weirder, you know, they throw in a sex

34:33

tape.

34:34

But even more shocking are the details

34:36

that have surfaced since about how

34:39

Michael Pack and his team tried

34:41

to purge the agency of so called

34:43

deep state hacks like Grant

34:45

Turner, Libby lu and Satare

34:47

sig.

34:48

You spent a couple million dollars on outside

34:51

attorneys to compile

34:54

a dossier on me. The agency

34:56

paid McGuire Woods at one point six million dollars.

34:59

McGuire Woods, a white shoe

35:01

law firm.

35:01

To over sixty people working

35:04

on this project. From maguire Woods,

35:06

it reading thousands of my emails.

35:08

They go back years to find some kind

35:10

of dirt on me that they could use.

35:12

David's side again, he.

35:14

Had the bills from the law firm to see what

35:16

they did for all that money. They built thousands

35:19

of hours of attorney time at hundreds of dollars

35:21

an hour, to find

35:24

nothing of significance that in any way

35:26

heard mister Turner.

35:28

The last day that the Trump people

35:30

were there, they sent out about

35:32

five hundred pages of information they

35:34

had gathered on me to the

35:38

Trump loyalists and the LGBT

35:40

hate group that they put on

35:42

our grantee networks boards. I happened

35:44

to be gay, and they

35:48

sent out this five hundred page dossier to

35:50

them with all these kind of false accusations

35:53

about me.

35:54

Satare was also the subject

35:56

of one of these dossiers.

35:58

I found out that the Pack team put

36:01

together one thousand pages

36:03

of document about

36:06

fifteen years of my work at THEA and

36:09

I was saddened by the money that was

36:11

spent at the time that

36:14

they put and the focus that they

36:16

had on this.

36:20

For Satare, her own experience

36:22

living under a repressive regime gave

36:25

her some perspective on the era of

36:27

Michael Pack at USAGM,

36:30

but it wasn't enough to change her mind

36:33

about American democracy.

36:34

I think that when you

36:37

have gone through political persecution

36:39

in your country of origin, you develop a very

36:41

strong foundation and resilience,

36:44

and this was not something that

36:47

I could not handle. But I still believe

36:49

in the basic values

36:52

of a democratic political

36:55

system in the United States.

36:57

But another reason is the fight

36:59

against Michael Pack's process

37:02

was a collaborative one, and

37:04

no one was truly on their own.

37:07

Here's grant.

37:08

I've been really happy that people

37:11

who care about the agency knew

37:13

about it and were trying to do stuff about it,

37:15

and care that we took these actions,

37:18

and I think that's been enough.

37:30

Next time on The Whistleblowers. In

37:33

our final episode, we talked

37:35

to two dissenters at the highest

37:38

levels of government, including one

37:40

who worked just down the hall from the Oval

37:42

office. In both of their cases,

37:45

breaking ranks didn't just mean getting sidelined.

37:48

It meant getting chased into the wilderness.

38:06

The Whistleblowers is a production of iHeart Podcasts

38:08

in partnership with Best Case Studios and Arc

38:11

Media. It was hosted by me Miles

38:13

Taylor and written by me Isabel Evans

38:15

and Adam Pinkis. Isabel Evans is

38:17

also our producer. Associate

38:19

producers are Hanahlieblowitz Lockhart and Ashley

38:21

Warren. Darcy peakele Is consulting

38:23

producer. Zach Herman is the VP of

38:25

Development of ARC Media. This episode

38:28

was edited by Max Michael Miller. Original

38:30

music is by James Newberry. Executive

38:32

producers are Me Miles Taylor, Adam Pinkss

38:35

for Best Case Studios and Barrick Goodman for

38:37

ARC Media. Beth Ann Mcaluso is

38:39

our executive producer for iHeartMedia, along

38:41

with Ali Perry. Special thanks to Kevin

38:44

Famm, all of our contributors and interviewees,

38:46

and our intern Anna Levitt At A big

38:48

thanks to the teams at Government Accountability

38:51

Project and Whistleblower Aide, two

38:53

of the best organizations for government and private

38:55

sector whistleblowers seeking legal support.

38:58

Follow and Rate the Whistle on the podcast

39:01

site of your choice to hear what these

39:03

whistleblowers and others have to say about

39:05

what they believe will happen under a second

39:07

Trump administration or in the White House of

39:09

AMaGA Successor you can pick up my new

39:11

book, Blowback from Simon and Schuster