0:00

So tempted not to see you. Maybe

0:03

you see me out the window. Taste of your

0:05

own medicine. Come

0:08

to the fuck. Come to fucking Dubai. Couldn't get out of

0:10

the airport to say hi and then just leave to Singapore.

0:13

This is the worst city on the entire planet. Nothing

0:18

could possibly be worse than whatever you guys have done

0:21

to every visitor for the last 36 hours. I'm

0:24

supposed to actually be at dinner right now. You

0:26

probably too with Scaramucci. Do you know what he

0:28

did? What did he do? He

0:31

landed last night around the same time as me.

0:33

He looked out the window. He got to

0:36

customs. He looked at the airport and he said,

0:38

fuck you guys. I'm out and got on a

0:40

plane home, which is exactly what I was threatening

0:42

to do at the time. I sat

0:44

in the airport for six hours until I bribed

0:46

a guy with a Toyota Tacoma with big wheels

0:49

to let me drive his car through the apocalypse

0:51

to my hotel till five o'clock. So I want

0:54

to hold on. Let me dig into this first

0:56

Scaramucci went back home. He

0:58

literally took his 15 hour flight

1:01

apparently and then turned around,

1:03

booked another flight and flew home. Which is

1:05

exactly what he wanted to do. He's in the States right now. That

1:09

is the unconfirmed rumor.

1:12

Hold on. Did you

1:15

fly back home? Yeah. That's

1:17

so scary. And he said to

1:19

Gorov and I

1:21

quote, your

1:23

city did not let me in and

1:26

turned around. So just for anyone that doesn't

1:28

know, um, Dubai

1:30

is underwater. Everyone,

1:33

there's actually people that died out. I didn't know it

1:35

was that bad. There's about 12 deaths. So

1:37

hearts got to the families there. And

1:40

there's others that complained because they're pushes and one of

1:42

them is on stage with us. Yes.

1:45

Bro, let me tell you what happened. Okay. There's

1:47

the biggest storm they've had here in 75 years,

1:50

but there's no drainage in

1:52

this city at all. So once the water's here,

1:54

it's very hard for it to leave. But the

1:56

real story is that they see the clouds to

1:58

make more rain and they. exceeded the rain

2:01

clouds and created the storm that has flooded

2:03

everyone. Correct?

2:06

I cannot confirm or deny. I can

2:08

neither confirm or deny. What

2:11

I can tell you is that Rolls Royce's

2:13

perform horribly in rain because

2:15

of all the cars I've seen drowned

2:18

and screwed in the city, it's almost

2:20

all Rolls Royce's, even the

2:22

STVs for the luxury cars. But outside

2:24

your building, I saw in a row

2:26

a Ferrari, Lamborghini and Rolls Royce all

2:29

completely trashed. People don't,

2:31

I mean, this is, it is the apocalypse here. It is,

2:33

I am legend. It is absolutely

2:35

bananas. Today, we tried

2:37

to go back out and go to a conference where

2:39

you and I were supposed to do a, you're

2:42

not supposed to do a fireside chat. I went for

2:44

the fireside chat from your building, four

2:46

hours round trip to be there 17 minutes to make

2:48

it back in time to do my YouTube show. It's

2:50

going really good here, I would say.

2:53

You didn't go, by the way. I didn't

2:55

go to the, I didn't go because there were

2:57

no cars available. I'm not

2:59

going to say I was happy there were no cars

3:02

available, but I was like, fuck cool. I have an

3:04

excuse not to get out into the abyss. Yesterday, while

3:06

you were stuck in the airport, everyone, my team was

3:08

stuck everywhere, by the way. So Bob

3:10

was in the mud. Yeah, it was literally everybody everywhere. It

3:12

was really crazy. I feel like it was for people. No,

3:15

everywhere. I was home in the hotel because I live

3:17

in a hotel complex. I was home and I went

3:19

down to the hotel cafe, chilled work, had a nice

3:21

meal. So I was fine, Scott, just to kind of

3:23

let you know. You were

3:25

dying on pretty much depression in

3:28

the airport, almost took a flight

3:30

back. The airport, by the

3:32

way, ran out of food in case you

3:34

guys were wondering. So my dinner, Emma, it

3:36

is what it is. But I literally ate

3:38

a Snickers and Passat too. How

3:41

did you get on a truck? I,

3:43

you know, made somebody an offer they couldn't

3:46

refuse. How much did you pay?

3:48

There was no cars leaving or coming to the

3:50

airport and some guy dropped somebody off and he

3:52

kind of knew a guy that knew it. Yeah,

3:54

the thing, you know, we did the thing. Did

3:56

you pay anything? You want

3:58

to hear the craziest part? Listen to everybody. Everybody's

4:00

really interested. So I was sitting with a guy

4:02

from point 72, you know, Stevie Cohen, the hedge

4:05

fund on the plane. It was

4:07

all crypto guys. And I was like, dude, it

4:09

looks really bad down here. Let's, he was like,

4:11

I'm going to go ahead and book a airport

4:13

hotel, which I told you, right? So

4:16

I'm staying in your hotel. I knew there was no way I was going to get there.

4:18

So I booked a hotel in the airport. He did

4:20

the same thing, same hotel. So we exit

4:22

the plane. Obviously they shuffle

4:24

us through customs to baggage claim, of course, right? And

4:26

we get there and we say to someone, where's the

4:28

hotel? They say it's in the terminal. And

4:32

I said, but you guys made us clear immigration

4:34

and, you know, like you can't get your bag

4:37

unless you're clear immigration. They were like, no, you

4:39

should have just checked in and left your bag

4:41

till tomorrow because

4:43

now you can't. So we spent actually the first two

4:45

hours trying to bribe customs officials, which does not work

4:47

in Dubai, by the way. They're very honest to get

4:49

back just to the hotel. We ended up just sitting

4:52

on a bench. Great. It's

4:54

a good day. Okay. Maybe something.

4:57

I don't know, man. Like this

4:59

story is pretty fascinating. Today the roads are still flooded.

5:01

So no one's going to events. And I'm sure a

5:03

lot of people listening are talking 2049, you know, I

5:05

missed the fireside chat meeting. Hold on. Did

5:08

you end up having that fireside chat with Gaurav and

5:10

pretend to Gaurav? Yeah, I pretended that he was, I

5:12

literally pretended that he was you. When we got on

5:15

stage, I made them announce him as you. And then

5:17

I called him your very tan, shorter

5:19

AI. And I had a

5:22

conversation about decentralized journalism, pretending

5:24

I was talking to you with someone else for

5:26

like nine people in the audience because nobody could

5:28

get there. And then I came back. Well,

5:32

I'm glad you enjoyed it. Well, now we can talk about

5:34

crypto. Is anyone else in Dubai, by the way? Anyone else

5:36

on stage? Layla, you're in Dubai. Layla?

5:40

Hey, Mario. No, I'm not in

5:42

Dubai. And I'm so happy I didn't go. You

5:45

know, I was thinking of going and you

5:47

know, those business class flights from Miami to

5:49

Dubai, they're great. But like, imagine dropping

5:51

that much, that money and then like you

5:54

get completely flooded. I can't imagine. Crazy. I

5:57

can't imagine. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you

5:59

did it. that happened to you. I

6:01

mean, it's just so insane. I just honestly, you

6:03

know, it's like, it's like, it

6:06

wasn't meant to be, you know, the market

6:08

crashed. I know people had issues

6:10

flying in because of the rockets in the air

6:12

with Iran and Israel. And then

6:14

this happens. And one of the weirdest things

6:16

and I saw people asking questions about the

6:19

splitter, why and how did

6:21

the water just like disappear? Like it

6:23

just disappeared overnight. I don't know, maybe

6:26

there's still a lot of water. I don't know. I

6:28

don't know. I don't know. I don't know what water

6:30

is. But I can't get out of my hotel to

6:32

the city. Yeah,

6:34

they've there's certain areas that have cleared, but like

6:36

by and large, you drive through and there's like

6:39

entire highways that are, you know, like, they're literally

6:41

covered. It's important. It's important to point out it

6:43

is a desert and you know, things get hot

6:45

in the desert and the heat does evaporate the

6:47

water. So that helps and they pump it out

6:50

because they got a lot of money to buy

6:52

the pump. Yeah, I think it's

6:54

very, very important lesson that you should always try

6:56

to use science to manipulate the weather. It

6:58

goes great. And

7:02

you can talk about it once you leave Dubai

7:04

Scott, let's go to the topic of the hours

7:07

is the markets. I'm sure you've been following the

7:09

market since you had nothing to do in the

7:11

airport. We talked about it yesterday. They just don't

7:13

look as Oh, wow, the green index is down

7:15

significantly. Look is down at 60. Just

7:18

barely at greed levels. I know you don't give

7:20

a fuck much about that index you took, you

7:22

know, too small for this. But

7:26

the other indicators as well. So obviously, we

7:28

invest heavily in projects and like the the

7:30

hype, I'm not saying it's a bad thing,

7:32

but the hype top project launches where every

7:34

project is doing a 10x those days have

7:37

not ended. It's quieted down. Obviously, we had

7:39

I did a space earlier for Omnia, which

7:41

listed a at a 3 billion

7:44

they didn't minus launchpad, we did a countdown space for

7:46

and they went at a $3 billion

7:49

fdv, which is insane. And

7:52

then we did another one early before that to

7:55

for a launchpad on Merlin Merlin chain. And but

7:57

they only did like a one point something x

7:59

like a barely

8:01

above launch price, which

8:04

ended up looking at other projects that have launched

8:06

the last few days, ones we invested in and

8:08

ones we haven't. And it's just

8:10

a lot quieter on that front. No

8:13

more meme coins have eased up as well. I know

8:16

there's a big launch today that'll be coming on later

8:18

in the space on base chain. Base

8:20

chain is getting a lot of traction. But the market

8:22

has slowed. And that's a good thing.

8:24

And maybe Scott, it would be good to get your thoughts on the

8:26

market since you haven't been on the space for fucking two months. It

8:28

would be good to get your thoughts on the market. And

8:31

why I'm sure you agree with Dave Weisberger and others

8:33

that this is a good thing. It's good for the

8:35

market to consolidate things that ease up for this to

8:37

be a long bull cycle

8:39

rather than a short-lived massive

8:41

hype. Yeah.

8:44

Go ahead, man. I don't think

8:46

this is uncommon at all. I think that price

8:49

is ranging, first of all, right? Basically

8:51

if you open a chart between $74,000-ish and $60,000, and

8:53

the way that human behavior works

8:57

and the reason that these things

8:59

exist on a chart, in theory, is

9:01

because humans are very predictable. They're panicking when we

9:03

get to the low of the range. And then

9:05

it bounces and liquidates the people who short-late or

9:08

exit the market. And then you get

9:10

to the top and everybody gets you pork. Listen,

9:12

a month ago, we talked about

9:14

this. We were having meme coin spaces every five

9:17

minutes. And I kept saying, I don't

9:20

know what price is going to do. But

9:22

I kept saying, we have incredible froth in

9:24

meme coins, right? When you get that meme

9:26

coin insanity, it's usually at least a local

9:28

top signal, in my opinion. If

9:31

you looked at any charts, everything

9:33

was massively overbought. If you're looking

9:35

at RSI, bearish divergences everywhere, just

9:38

all of the insanity that if you took the

9:40

emotion out of it, you would say, this is

9:42

probably a good time for this to pause. And

9:45

to be quite honest now, it's almost like

9:47

I'm starting to feel the opposite of that

9:49

while things are now getting oversold. So

9:54

maybe that's what's causing

9:56

the range lows to bounce around 60. think

10:00

that we made a new all time high before

10:02

the halving, that's something to celebrate. We

10:05

can analyze what that means for the future of

10:07

the market to death. I don't think anybody knows.

10:09

I take it as a positive when price goes

10:11

up unexpectedly. So I'll take that as a win.

10:14

And I think we're going to get a nice

10:16

long cycle. And just like every other cycle, we'll

10:18

get these significant corrections

10:20

and long periods of consolidation that

10:22

shake people out because they're bored.

10:25

So I don't think... My

10:28

base case a month ago with all of that,

10:31

I said this tweet, and obviously, you could tell

10:33

just from the reactions, people didn't want to hear

10:35

it, is maybe now we go back

10:37

to the normal four year cycle. We have our halving,

10:39

we have a really boring summer, and then all of

10:41

a sudden price goes up in the fall. I have

10:43

no idea if that's going to happen. That's what's happening

10:45

every other time. Summer or fall,

10:48

can you use months so I can relate? Yeah,

10:50

so a lot of us in the last halving

10:52

was around this same time of year, then summer

10:55

was extremely low volatility, price

10:57

dipped. And then in the last two

10:59

halvings, we've effectively, I think, I don't remember

11:01

two ago, but you get up only in

11:04

September and October. Summer is

11:06

historically boring for markets in general,

11:08

but Bitcoin specifically, and people

11:11

get excited about the halving, then you realize that

11:13

it takes a really long time for that to

11:15

matter. A supply reduction to

11:17

matter is not the thing that happened today,

11:19

the halving, right? Yeah,

11:22

and I'm looking at other reports here. So we

11:24

got a JP Morgan saying

11:26

Bitcoin's outperformance means some of the expected

11:28

post halving rally may have come early.

11:31

So JP Morgan knows that mining stocks

11:33

have slumped ahead of the Bitcoin halving,

11:35

the bank favors riot platform and iris

11:37

energy. Bitcoin's outperformance may mean that part

11:39

of the typical post halving rally has

11:41

been pulled forward. Let

11:43

me try to get an exact order period. And

11:45

Goldman Sachs also had a report, I believe today,

11:48

that said, by the way, they believe don't

11:50

look at past cycles because this time has been

11:52

different because of the new timeline. Bernstein

11:55

says Bitcoin's bullish trajectory to resume post

11:57

halving and still has a title. have

12:00

a target of 150K. And Bernstein also

12:02

said buy miners, like very

12:04

directly. They said buy miners ahead of the halving

12:06

right now. We expect Bitcoin's

12:08

bullish trajectory to resume post halving

12:10

where the mining hash rates

12:13

have adjusted and ETF

12:15

inflows resume back. So

12:17

because today is another day of

12:20

negative inflows, sorry, today is another

12:22

day of net outflows. Further integration of

12:24

spot Bitcoin ETFs with Y Houses, RIAs, RIAs

12:26

will continue to provide structural demand for Bitcoin.

12:28

In our view, we continue to expect Bitcoin

12:30

to touch a cycle high of 150K by

12:32

2025. I

12:35

think the expectations of when we'll

12:37

hit the all-time high or a new high

12:39

or hit six figures have kind of changed.

12:42

And if you see yesterday's space, people were

12:44

still bullish, but a lot more conservative from

12:46

just a week ago. It's crazy how big

12:48

it is. Yeah, I mean, that's just, yeah,

12:51

a clear motion. Nothing's changed. It's

12:53

one of the smartest people. You

12:56

just cannot avoid getting,

12:58

having, you know, kind of the negative emotion. I

13:01

wanted to ask James, but he just disappeared. I

13:03

wanted to ask him specifically about the ETFs, but

13:05

I'm inviting him again if he can come back

13:07

up. Yeah, we had Eric Rochumis yesterday. We had

13:09

Eric as well talking about the Hong Kong ETF,

13:12

but he's just not that, you know, a

13:14

lot of people are excited about Bitcoin

13:16

and ETFs in Hong Kong. But the

13:18

inflows expected from there were pretty miniscule

13:21

according to Eric Rochumis. Expectations

13:24

that you expect about 500 million,

13:26

I think, inflows, which would be a successful

13:28

ETF in Hong Kong. So,

13:30

but I'll just take the invite to Eric as well. But

13:33

I'll let you go to the panel's call. Yeah,

13:36

I mean, I think we should just, you know,

13:38

see what people's thoughts are on obviously the topic

13:41

at hand. We have the having a couple of

13:43

days ago and I missed yesterday.

13:45

So maybe we can jump start

13:47

there. I mean, Simon, what do you

13:49

think as far as what

13:51

you've seen with the cycle, where we stand

13:53

and, you know, could the top be

13:56

in as people are calling for? I

14:00

think it's really hard to separate Bitcoin

14:03

macro and geopolitics at the moment. So

14:05

in terms of if we're looking at these

14:08

shorter term cycles, so much is dependent upon

14:11

the war situation.

14:13

And then obviously commodities reactions

14:15

to that, and then the Fed's

14:17

reaction to that. So I

14:19

think it's very hard to just think about,

14:21

so I still believe we'll be at all

14:24

time highs by at

14:26

some point this year. But

14:29

immediately in the aftermath of halving,

14:31

you've got Israel's reaction. If Israel

14:36

and Iran go into a titch

14:38

attack, that can escalate to Russia.

14:40

So that can get pretty nasty pretty

14:42

quickly. But obviously, the

14:44

immediate thing in terms of commodities would

14:47

be the reaction of gold

14:49

and oil. Gold is near

14:51

all time highs. Oil is

14:53

just under $90 a barrel. It

14:56

took $120 a barrel to break the US banking system in 2023.

14:58

And so obviously, that led to spikes,

15:05

hyping rates and an inflation recycle.

15:09

All of that is on the table. And

15:11

so I think the story of

15:13

how Bitcoin reacts in the

15:16

general commodities market, and

15:18

then you've got the Bitcoin halving story in

15:21

relation to mining stocks, because they've

15:23

had a significant correction. I

15:25

think everybody chose the ETF because

15:28

the last time there were

15:30

very few public Bitcoin mining stocks during

15:32

the last halving. So

15:34

no one, there was massive uncertainty around that.

15:37

They chose a leverage play in

15:39

micro strategy, or they chose just

15:42

to go to the ETF and get Bitcoin

15:46

direct without all the leverage. So

15:49

those have significantly corrected. Marisons come

15:51

from, I think it's like about

15:53

$3.5 billion from a peak of $6.5 billion or something like that. You've

16:00

got to take the general stock market

16:02

in relation to how they perform. But

16:05

I do think that Bitcoin is going to

16:07

become a commodity play in all those stories,

16:09

whether it's inflation, whether it's war, whether

16:12

it's rate hikes or even

16:15

rate cuts. I still see a

16:17

new all-time high for Bitcoin at some point this

16:19

year. But yeah, the immediate

16:21

aftermath, I don't think you can take Bitcoin

16:24

in isolation. I think you've got to look

16:26

at the macro and geopolitics that will determine

16:28

the short-term trends. Yeah,

16:32

James, I'm going to go to Tom and

16:34

Leah right after and continue the price conversation.

16:36

But James, Tom, I know both of you

16:39

actually had mic issues because the space is

16:41

in the glitchy. But James, just wanted to

16:44

ask what you think right now with

16:46

the ETF flows or give us a quick update there

16:48

where we stand and then we'll go back to the

16:50

price conversation. Yeah,

16:52

I mean, real quick, I'll say that a month ago,

16:54

I was scheduled to be landing in Dubai around the

16:56

same time you were, Scott, but I

16:59

had to cancel because those business class

17:01

flights would have burned through way too much of my travel

17:03

budget for the year. So

17:05

I was very

17:07

upset to not be going

17:09

to token 2049 about three days

17:12

ago and I have completely, completely

17:14

changed my- You consider yourself

17:16

blessed, my friend. I would have loved

17:18

to see you, but I wouldn't have

17:20

seen you anyway because we'd be screaming

17:22

from hotel windows. Yeah, yeah. I

17:24

mean, I think Eric did a good job yesterday from

17:26

what I heard, but essentially,

17:29

yeah, the flows, they're flat for the most part.

17:32

People are acting like it's the end of the

17:34

world, that flows are flat in some cases online.

17:36

It's kind of hilarious to witness. There

17:38

are going to be days where these

17:41

ETFs see significant outflows, not

17:43

just from GBTC, but once these things get

17:45

more stabilized and more settled,

17:48

that's going to happen. That said, right now, we're still

17:50

in a point where a lot

17:52

of these platforms still haven't fully signed

17:54

off on these things being able to

17:56

be solicited to their clients or recommended

17:58

to their clients. So for the most

18:01

part, any platform, unless you're like a

18:03

completely independent advisor, work your own back

18:05

office and doing different things, if

18:07

you're like at a UBS, a Merrill,

18:10

Morgan Stanley, Raymond James, one

18:12

of those shops, for the most part, you

18:14

can't recommend these. Yeah, you can probably buy these

18:17

for your clients if they're specifically asking for it

18:20

or jump through special hoots, but you can't be like,

18:22

hey, I think this fits in your portfolio. So that

18:24

stuff is still gonna come online over the rest of

18:27

the year. So it's not completely done

18:29

yet. Most of

18:31

the stuff now we've seen has been a largely

18:33

retail story, and it's been

18:36

some of those independent advisors. That

18:38

said, they've taken in $12.5 billion. Even

18:42

with the outflow yesterday was basically nothing. It's

18:45

essentially flat compared to the numbers that we've been

18:47

seeing. So at some point,

18:50

we will see meaningful outflows, just not yet. And

18:52

then I think Eric probably did a good job

18:54

explaining the Hong Kong stuff. People

18:57

are way blowing at our proportion. The

19:00

Bitcoin ETFs now are larger in the

19:02

US than the entire Hong Kong ETF

19:04

market. So people

19:06

acting like this is gonna be some massive deal, at

19:09

least in the near term. I mean, obviously Hong Kong's

19:11

a financial hub. This

19:13

could be like the Asian financial rails, like

19:15

the Asian equivalent, but at some point it's

19:18

unlikely to happen anytime soon. So

19:21

the other thing is people are like, well, it's

19:23

gonna open things to mainland Chinese investors. No,

19:26

it's not. Not anytime remotely soon,

19:28

right? These are not going to be

19:30

in that Connect program. Mainland Chinese investors still restricted from

19:32

owning stuff like this. So yes,

19:34

that could change, but it

19:36

seems very unlikely in your term. And

19:39

just James, can you just go back, I

19:42

missed the first part, glitch for me as well.

19:44

You were talking about, I think you said a

19:46

comment, like we're gonna see more meaningful Bitcoin outflows,

19:48

ETF outflows, or I misheard you. Yeah,

19:50

yeah, so I'm just saying at some point, like

19:52

I'm not saying this is gonna happen over this

19:54

timeframe or at whatever, but like people are freaking

19:57

out now about like these ETFs having zero flows

19:59

on different days. But

20:01

like at some point in the future, these things

20:03

are going to have meaningful outflows on

20:06

a given day or a week or monthly time period. What

20:09

would trigger those outflows? It depends,

20:11

right? So one, it could be panic selling, which I tend to

20:13

not think is going to happen. A lot of these types of

20:15

investors most of the time are just buying and they're going to

20:17

sit and hold. I think some of

20:19

these ETFs will be very highly advantage-training

20:21

vehicles. But also, if you're

20:24

going to have these ETFs, right? If you're an

20:26

advisor or somebody who's buying this as a slug

20:28

of a portfolio, like 3% or 5%

20:31

or what have you, if this thing runs

20:33

up 100%, like it probably has

20:35

in some cases for the people who bought really

20:38

early on when these ETFs first launched, now you're

20:40

way overweight the position of what your goal was

20:42

the portfolio. So after like at

20:44

a quarterly rebalance, you might expect to see some

20:46

sort of outflows if it's gone up really well

20:48

or the exact opposite if it's gone down. So

20:50

there's like two competing factors here. Like are people

20:53

buying as it's

20:55

collapsing, which is what these

20:57

ETFs, like if you're doing it

20:59

as a slug of a portfolio are likely to do,

21:02

or are they fear selling? And it

21:04

basically depends like how much of the overall

21:06

market is these people that are retail and

21:08

in it for short term stuff versus these

21:10

long-term buy and hold investors. And we don't

21:12

have enough data to know exactly how that's

21:14

going to play out. When you say

21:16

fee selling, do you just mean like a massive correction and then the

21:20

ROI freaking out? I

21:22

don't think the RAAs will freak out. I think

21:24

the problem is right now, a lot of this

21:26

is people that were buying these things in their

21:28

own brokerage accounts or their own IRAs or some

21:31

other tax-deferred vehicle or people that were like, oh, I

21:33

want to buy Bitcoin and now there's an ETF so

21:35

I'm going to buy it. And then if it dumps,

21:37

they might sell. But like the RAAs, they're not putting

21:39

30, 40% of their portfolio or anything

21:41

like that into these types of ETFs. They're

21:44

going to be a lot more nuanced and calm

21:46

and collected about their positions and they'll rebalance to

21:48

a target allocation. So they have an allocation they

21:50

want to hit and if they

21:52

rebalance quarterly, semi-annually, or even annually, they're going

21:54

to rebalance every time they rebalance the portfolio

21:56

and either buy more of these ETFs or

21:59

sell. some of the ETFs to get

22:01

it back down to the weight that they have a target allocation for.

22:05

Scott, do you have any other questions? No,

22:08

I think that makes sense. I would just add before we

22:10

go to Tom and Leah that I

22:13

would bet that most people who have bought a Bitcoin

22:15

spot ETF and put it into like a retirement account

22:17

or something don't even know that there's a correction. I

22:20

think we take for granted that we're all in the

22:22

echo chamber and we check price every day, but I

22:25

think a lot of people just start getting it all.

22:27

They take it quarterly or every six months. I'm just

22:29

saying, this is a huge narrative for us, but looking

22:32

and seeing that Bitcoin's 64, whatever,

22:34

if you bought it at 69 is a

22:36

non-event to a person who bought ETFs and

22:38

put it in their IRA. Those

22:41

corrections, no, but I think bigger corrections, I think you

22:43

cannot avoid the headlines. I think this

22:45

is where it could play a role, Jay. Exactly.

22:49

That's what I was going to say. I don't think these

22:51

5%, 10% drawbacks, what have you. What

22:55

drawback do you think will have an impact on

22:57

ETF outflows? It's like a significant impact. Anyone in

22:59

crypto has experienced 50% to 80% drawbacks,

23:01

so they know what is coming. I'd

23:04

like to think a lot of these people, particularly advisors

23:07

have looked at this and know that those drawbacks are

23:09

common and likely to happen over different cycles. These

23:11

retail investors and people who've just been hearing

23:13

Bitcoin and now see an ETF and are

23:15

buying it that don't understand that these things

23:17

could be subject to a 70% correction

23:20

or even 50% correction, they might pan excel. But

23:26

I'm with what Scott was saying. I think most

23:28

people like, a lot of

23:30

this money came in before it even crossed 60.

23:32

For the most part, people are still net

23:35

positive if they bought these ETFs. They're

23:37

not looking at this like, oh my God, this is a

23:39

horrible correction. They don't even care as much

23:43

as the more crypto native crowd that

23:45

is very much intraday in the lead,

23:47

looking at prices every single day. Those

23:49

corrections is pretty much the end of the bull market. If you see a

23:51

50% to 80% drawdown, that

23:54

is capitulation in a year or whatever.

23:56

Yeah, 50 to 80%. Yeah. But maybe like, We've

24:00

seen 30% drawbacks pretty much every cycle

24:02

that continue into bull market. Something

24:05

like that might scare somebody, but for the most part, that

24:07

happens every time. How quickly

24:09

do you think those outflows would end

24:11

up capitulating? I

24:15

have no idea. We don't have enough data on

24:17

exactly what this makeup is. Like I said, right

24:19

now, I think it's a lot of retail and

24:21

then also some independent advisors, maybe

24:23

some institutions that wanted exposure, but

24:25

we don't have the massive level

24:28

of advisor interest that we're used to seeing

24:30

in different ETFs. Also, when we look at

24:33

ETFs, if we look at S&P 500 ETFs,

24:35

SPY, which I'm sorry for people who don't care

24:37

about this, but SPY is a trading vehicle. That

24:39

thing trades like a trading vehicle. When

24:42

things are doing well, it has money pouring in. When things

24:44

are doing bad, it tends to see significant outflows.

24:47

IVV from BlackRock, the same index, has

24:49

a little bit more nuance. It has

24:51

a mix between long-term holders and these

24:53

traders. Then VU from Vanguard,

24:55

again, all the same exact products. VU

24:58

is almost never sees outflows comparatively

25:00

speaking to IVV and SPY. It's

25:03

not even just the type of ETF. It's also

25:05

the ETF itself. Some different tickers that do the

25:07

same stuff are going to trade differently. It

25:10

looks like Ibit is becoming the trading vehicle. How much of

25:12

that is going to be buy and hold, whereas some of

25:14

these other products are going to be much more buy and

25:16

hold type products, but we don't have enough

25:18

data to know exactly how that's going to play out and what

25:20

to look at. I appreciate that overview,

25:22

James. Any other points on the ETF,

25:24

Scott? Scott, because I want to move into a few

25:26

questions on not only the market, but also the Bitcoin

25:29

ecosystem that we're getting more and more bullish on.

25:31

Cool. Well,

25:33

Scott, just FYI, if anyone is listening, Scott has gone down to

25:36

get a car. He got in to get a car because he's

25:38

here. Listen to me, Scott.

25:41

You're stubborn. He said they're complaining for

25:43

the first 10 minutes of the space about being stuck in

25:45

the airport for floods. Now you decide to get in a

25:47

car, go into the unknown to go to a dinner of

25:50

a friend of ours. If you get stuck in the

25:52

water, it's not. Yeah, but

25:54

I'm in the safety of my own home. Do not message

25:56

me if you're stuck in the road just to be clear.

25:58

You could message me in the airport. That's fine. You

26:00

didn't know. Now you know and you ended up going.

26:02

Do not ping me and start complaining about you being

26:05

stuck in the flood. I've learned how to bribe

26:07

locals for rides. I'm good. Okay. Beautiful. I want to

26:09

go to Isabelle and Yago is there as well. I

26:12

was expecting you to come on Yago. It's

26:14

perfect timing. Isabelle, we're hopefully going to start

26:16

working together as well. You're very deep in

26:19

the Bitcoin ecosystem and maybe a

26:21

quick 10-second overview on your background

26:23

there and more importantly, start digging

26:25

into the Bitcoin ecosystem. I

26:28

think we had one of our speakers in the previous space. The

26:31

first space we did today, the countdown space was for

26:33

a launchpad in the Bitcoin ecosystem. One

26:35

of our speakers, Joa, who's got knows well. So they expect a

26:37

lot of TVL to move away from other chains and

26:40

get into the Bitcoin ecosystem. Are

26:46

we starting to see that shift? Do you

26:48

agree with Joa's view and give

26:50

us a bit of an overview on the ordinals

26:54

and L2s in Bitcoin? Yeah,

26:58

absolutely. I think this won't be

27:00

a surprise to anyone on this

27:02

stage, but for a long time,

27:05

I think Bitcoin was seen as

27:07

this inert sort of Bitcoin,

27:09

excuse me, boomer coin, can't really do

27:11

anything, no utility. It's not good for anything other than

27:13

being a store of value. That

27:15

narrative really shifted after the launch

27:18

of the ordinals protocol last year.

27:21

So a little bit of my background, I've

27:23

been in marketing communications for digital

27:25

assets companies for a long time. And

27:27

last February, I had sort of a

27:29

life changing success, which is I was

27:32

able to manage the cons launch for

27:34

the ordinals protocol under Casey Rotemore, who

27:36

is basically just an independent

27:38

developer who built this thing effectively

27:40

in his basement and kind of changed

27:42

the face of Bitcoin permanently. So yeah,

27:46

so since the launch of the ordinals protocol, which

27:48

sort of called into question this

27:50

idea that Bitcoin has no utility,

27:52

right, outside of being a store of

27:54

value, he made NFT is

27:57

possible on Bitcoin layer one.

28:00

Bitcoin, native Bitcoin, real

28:02

Bitcoin, no side chains, no

28:04

funny business. And

28:06

that was just a massive, massive

28:09

innovation that's bringing a ton of

28:11

investor interest into the space.

28:13

I think now you're going to see a lot

28:15

more interest in, I mean, you are already seeing

28:17

a ton of more interest in terms of like,

28:19

what else could be possible on Bitcoin, right? NFTs

28:22

are possible on Bitcoin. What else could be possible?

28:24

And I think L2s are a big part

28:27

of the story for investors right now. L2s

28:29

on Bitcoin, how do we solve the bridging

28:31

problem? And we're all in

28:33

the ordinals ecosystem following the halvening very,

28:35

very closely. Ordinals have a huge impact

28:37

on fee markets. And

28:40

so, you know, and there's

28:42

a bunch of really interesting ordinals projects that

28:44

are going to be launching halvening that are

28:46

going to boost fees. So yeah, we're watching

28:48

that very closely. Well, again,

28:50

as I said, and Scott, I think you're, you dropped

28:52

out because you decided to fucking go on

28:54

a ride. But Scott will come back as a co-host just if

28:57

we can send him an invite. We're

28:59

investing heavily. I think I talked about the one

29:01

we that launched today where there's another big

29:03

one called Portal DeFi, which is a DeFi

29:06

on Bitcoin. And Iago, obviously, the go-to person

29:08

on Bitcoin for a while on the show,

29:11

maybe get your thoughts on what Isabel was

29:13

talking about and why should people, why should

29:15

investors, why should the audience pay attention to

29:17

Bitcoin? Well,

29:21

yeah, you know, the weird thing

29:23

about Bitcoin is you've got on

29:26

Solana, this huge ecosystem of dapps

29:28

and memes and tokens and users

29:31

and developers. And then on Ethereum, which is

29:33

even bigger, you've got an even bigger ecosystem

29:35

of dapps and memes and tokens and users

29:37

and developers. And you've got

29:39

the Sol token and the ETH token

29:41

and all of those things combined. Most

29:44

ecosystems combined are still

29:46

smaller than Bitcoin is

29:48

without any of those things. And

29:51

just as Isabel was pointing out, there's

29:55

a major, major change happening

29:58

in Bitcoin right now. It's all about

30:00

because of the introduction of Taproot. There

30:02

was a major upgrade three years ago

30:04

to Bitcoin called Taproot. Taproot

30:07

introduced new ways of performing transactions

30:09

on Bitcoin, and then exactly

30:12

nothing happened for two years. It

30:14

just took developers a really long time to figure out

30:17

how to use

30:19

Taproot. And Casey figured

30:22

out the first, but certainly not the last

30:24

major use case. So he introduced NFTs.

30:27

Overnight, Bitcoin showed

30:29

its power. Overnight, ordinals

30:31

became the largest NFT market. The most

30:34

valuable NFTs were ordinals, and this has

30:36

been the situation up until now. In

30:40

just a few days, we've got the Bitcoin halving. With

30:42

that, there'll be a token

30:45

standard for Bitcoin called Roon's introduced.

30:49

And that also is a brainchild of

30:51

Casey. It's kind of

30:53

like the ERC 20 moment on

30:55

Ethereum, but for Bitcoin, so potentially

30:58

very, very significant. And now with

31:00

Taproot and- What was the one

31:03

you just mentioned? So,

31:05

Roon's. Roon's, okay. Yeah,

31:07

so you can think of Roon's as like ERC

31:09

20, but for Bitcoin. It's

31:13

a token standard. It's going to allow multiple different types

31:15

of tokens to be created and traded on Bitcoin.

31:18

And then with

31:20

Rollups, there's now also the introduction

31:22

of smart contracts onto Bitcoin, which

31:24

will make Roon's and ordinals way

31:26

more useful. And so- Your

31:29

thoughts on Merlin Chain? Honestly,

31:34

I don't... I

31:39

struggle to see the connection between Merlin

31:41

Chain and Bitcoin. It's

31:44

a chain built on Ethereum, but

31:47

they've managed to pull in a lot of BTC.

31:50

So I think it remains to be seen what

31:52

will happen. How does it work? By

31:55

the way, just for the audience, if I'm geeking out too much on

31:58

Bitcoin, let me know in the comments. move on

32:00

to another topic but I was fascinated by the

32:02

Bitcoin ecosystem. How would you explain

32:04

Merlin Chain? Merlin

32:07

Chain is a polygon CDK chain

32:09

so it's a roll-up built on

32:11

the polygon Ethereum

32:14

standard and

32:18

currently it's also

32:21

not fully live. What

32:24

they did is they had a points

32:26

program that ran and it's just basically

32:28

ending now in which a

32:30

large amount of BTC were deposited in

32:35

order to earn points which basically go

32:38

towards an airdrop of the Merlin token. From

32:42

what I hear at least some

32:44

of the people who have moved a lot of

32:46

BTC in to earn the points are probably going

32:48

to move out to try and earn points elsewhere

32:52

but Merlin have done an amazing job of marketing

32:56

and I

32:58

think it'll be interesting to see what they do but

33:01

to me they're not really a Bitcoin project.

33:06

You don't consider a Bitcoin project, can you play devil's advocate?

33:08

Sorry Scott, if I'm getting again I'm

33:10

going too deep into Bitcoin let me know but what's

33:14

their selling point? How

33:16

would they say they're unleashing

33:19

Bitcoin's potential? They're

33:26

saying that their goal is eventually to become

33:28

a Bitcoin roll-up and

33:31

to allow trading of Bitcoin and to allow

33:33

Deps on Bitcoin. How

33:38

exactly what their roadmap is I don't think

33:40

they've revealed and

33:42

I think a lot of there are

33:44

a lot of teams that are working right

33:46

now on technology to allow for roll-ups on

33:48

Bitcoin and so I know of 50 different

33:51

teams that are working to bring roll-ups

33:53

to Bitcoin and in all likelihood

33:55

in a few months as the technology becomes

33:57

available that's going to become the biggest story.

34:00

story. Bitcoin now has rollups, it has

34:02

smart contracts, it has tokens, it has

34:05

NFTs, it has everything. And

34:07

there's going to be this giant sucking

34:09

sound of this massive sort

34:11

of vacuum of

34:13

opportunity, right? Just

34:16

opportunities being sucked into the Bitcoin space. Go

34:20

ahead Isabel. I think

34:22

a big part of what drew

34:25

capital into that universe

34:28

really early on was, you know,

34:30

specifically the ability to quote unquote

34:32

stake ordinals, right? So it

34:34

wasn't just Bitcoin that you could get

34:37

these points for, it was the big

34:39

splashy new ordinals collection that you could

34:41

get points for. So, you

34:43

know, node monks, which is the biggest, I

34:45

believe the biggest by market cap of the

34:47

art inscriptions projects on ordinals, right?

34:49

Like I think 10% of the

34:52

supply of node monks is currently wrapped

34:54

up, locked up on Merlin. And there,

34:57

you know, folks are effectively quote staking these

34:59

ordinals to get yield or in the form

35:01

of these points that they're distributing, right? So

35:03

I think, and they have a very,

35:06

I mean, to Yago's point, they have

35:08

a really like DGN style marketing campaign.

35:10

They're very like, you know, they, there's

35:12

like wizards and it's super consumer friendly,

35:15

very retail focused. And so I

35:17

think that's why they were able to, you know, just

35:19

lock up a ton of capital. Let

35:22

me go to just back to the market, Scott, unless

35:24

you have more questions on Bitcoin. Cool,

35:28

Scott, really great insight, man. Appreciate it. What's

35:34

the big difference with Reem? Like how does

35:36

that compare to like BRC 20? And what's

35:39

the, what's the thing people are excited about

35:41

with Reem? So

35:48

there already was an attempt, mostly

35:50

as a joke, to create

35:54

tokens on Bitcoin, which,

35:57

which kind of exploded with BRC 20. and

36:00

it was created by Domo. And what

36:02

it basically did is it took ordinals and sort of chucked them

36:04

up into little pieces. So you took these NFTs, you chucked them

36:07

up into a lot of little pieces and

36:10

you got fungible

36:14

tokens. But you couldn't really trade a

36:16

single fungible token. You had to move

36:18

them in chunks. It

36:20

was very, very awkward. You couldn't use multisig with it.

36:23

As a result, a lot of what

36:26

was developed around it was pretty insecure. Ruins

36:30

is a much cleaner protocol.

36:34

It's lower cost in terms

36:36

of memory on the Bitcoin

36:39

chain. It's cheaper to transact.

36:41

It's far more flexible and

36:45

it's easier to develop on. And so it's

36:48

a much, it's actually, it's not

36:50

like a hacky standard. It's an actual

36:53

standard built from the ground up to

36:55

provide Bitcoin with tokens. As

36:58

opposed to ERC20s, so

37:03

when you have an ERC20, you

37:06

create the smart contract, you call that

37:08

smart contract and then you can move

37:10

the tokens around. Basically the smart contract

37:13

itself just changes the balances for addresses.

37:16

Ruins have taken a much more Bitcoin approach.

37:19

You actually are transacting

37:21

via the UTXOs themselves. And

37:26

there's sort of like

37:28

client side validation of

37:30

the different ruins. So Bitcoin

37:32

doesn't have smart contracts. And so a

37:34

lot of the data is

37:36

stored off-chain and that actually

37:39

ends up making the transactions

37:41

far more efficient and scalable.

37:45

And how expensive ascended these things? Sorry, Mario, if you

37:47

want to go. That's all right. Hey, I'll ask a

37:49

question. We'll go back to the market and get Tom's

37:51

first. So

37:54

basically you can think of it as the cost

37:56

of a Bitcoin transaction, but I will

37:58

point out that Bitcoin transactions to become

38:00

very, very expensive over the course

38:02

of the coming year. I suspect that

38:05

Bitcoin block space, because it's only

38:07

eight megabytes every 10 minutes,

38:09

is going to become the most scarce computing

38:11

resource in the world over the course

38:13

of the coming year, because it's going to be used for ordinals, it's

38:15

going to be used for runes, it's going to be used for rollups

38:19

to aggregate all of their transactions to Bitcoin.

38:21

And so everything we thought about Bitcoin, which

38:23

was up until now, even though it was

38:26

the biggest chain, it was a relatively cheap

38:28

chain, is changing.

38:30

And I think a huge amount of

38:33

Bitcoin transactions are going to have to migrate

38:35

to rollups for scale.

38:40

And Bitcoin itself is going to become much more of a

38:42

settlement layer for the ecosystem built around

38:44

it. So people should be... I think you just

38:46

dropped out, Simon. Not sure if anyone else could hear you. Let me go to Tom. Tom,

38:49

we've gone deep in the Bitcoin ecosystem. Not sure if you have any thoughts

38:51

on that, but maybe you want to go back to the markets. What

38:59

you're seeing in the markets from a similar position

39:01

to us, working at Master Ventures, and

39:03

you guys having a launchpad as well. And

39:07

more of a broader perspective on the markets as

39:09

well. Yeah,

39:11

sure. Good morning, everyone. I hope

39:14

everyone in token 2049 is doing

39:16

okay. I

39:18

decided to cancel my trip to, unfortunately,

39:20

mostly because of the war, but didn't

39:23

expect a biblical flight as well. Mostly

39:25

of the war? I

39:29

need to buy you a map. So

39:31

we're a bit far. You can

39:33

chill here. Well,

39:37

I'll send you a map of where the Boston

39:39

direct flight flies through, and it's literally over Iran.

39:45

The flight will be very inconvenient. That's

39:47

true. That's a good reason.

39:49

Yeah, for sure. And

39:53

unfortunately, I'm pretty old. So I have two kids. I

39:55

get stuck in Dubai for a week. It's brutal for me.

39:58

But anyway, so writing our investor. quarterly

40:00

letter and have a few interesting insights

40:02

in the market. I think we just

40:04

need to take a bit of perspective.

40:06

So we just had the biggest quarter

40:09

in terms of trading volume on both

40:11

sexes and DEXs since 2021. We

40:14

also had the most daily active

40:16

users at over 10 million across

40:19

layer ones and most

40:21

blockchain fees paid across the

40:23

quarter. So we're seeing a

40:26

huge increase in

40:28

usage across the board, which is extremely

40:30

encouraging. We've had big upgrades like Dancun

40:32

and upgrades coming

40:34

on Solana that are really encouraging

40:36

up and above the meme coin

40:39

trends we've seen. If you looked

40:41

at sectors this quarter, meme coins

40:43

actually were the best performing sector,

40:45

which is interesting,

40:47

unfortunate, but I think

40:49

notable. Talking to our friends in the hedge fund

40:51

space, we operate in the private markets, but talking

40:53

to a lot of the friends we have in

40:56

the public markets, if you didn't invest in meme

40:58

coins this quarter, you actually underperformed

41:00

drastically, unfortunately. So interesting to

41:03

see how that proliferates going forward.

41:06

Are folks going to start taking

41:08

more speculative bets because they have

41:10

to to keep up with their

41:12

peers. On the private side,

41:14

we've seen a huge uptick on the

41:17

reported data. We had nine

41:19

figure rounds from Hashkey, Eigenlayer, Optimism,

41:21

Monad, Barachain, and those are the

41:23

things that are just reported. Most

41:25

of this data is six to 12

41:27

months lag. So you're going to see a lot

41:29

of this stuff continue to come in. And talking to

41:32

our peers in the private space, we have seen most

41:36

of these guys are only roughly 50%

41:38

deployed on the bigger funds. So you

41:41

have a lot of capital still coming

41:43

into these markets, still marking these rounds

41:45

off and still filtering into the private

41:50

side. So I think there's going

41:52

to be a lot of continual flows in

41:54

this space. And that's up and above just

41:56

what the basic inflows that we've seen from

41:58

James and others talk about. the kind

42:00

of liquid side, but the private side

42:03

is just still very, very active and

42:05

a lot of money still flowing in.

42:08

And what's your strategy at Master Ventures? You guys

42:10

still pretty active as always, we're kind of being

42:12

a tiny bit more conservative to seeing where the

42:14

markets head to over the next few months. Yeah,

42:19

so for us, we're very

42:22

pre-seed, seed stage investors. We

42:24

like particular verticals, D10, infrastructure,

42:27

a few others, but the

42:30

rounds are really getting marked up

42:32

so quickly that it's really challenging

42:34

to find great kills right now.

42:37

Luckily for us, we have a very big funnel, so we

42:39

can filter those. We have a few value ads that we

42:41

think we can bring to the table to kind of negotiate,

42:43

but man, you're seeing a seed

42:45

stage feel. Any specific sectors that

42:49

you're finding pretty interesting now and any

42:51

you're avoiding, like you still down

42:53

the same AI, gaming, deep

42:56

in and out RWAs or

42:58

is there other other

43:00

niches that you're paying attention to? Because we've seen

43:02

a few, you know, restaking is gaining traction, you

43:05

know, there's two projects, Omni today and

43:08

E2Fi were invested in both listed on Binance.

43:11

They have both restaking protocols.

43:15

So I'd love to see any other narratives that are

43:17

interesting to you guys. Yeah,

43:20

for us, primarily focused in

43:22

D-Pen, it's the actual sort

43:24

of use case on both sides

43:27

of the equation for both

43:30

demand and supply side for the

43:32

token, you know, very bullish there,

43:35

a lot of different sub-verticals

43:37

we like, compute, storage, etc.

43:39

In D-Pen, generally bearish on

43:42

SocialFi. A lot of

43:44

these things take a long time to develop

43:46

network effects, you know,

43:48

gaming we invested in heavily in the

43:50

last cycle. This cycle, I think

43:53

it's going to take, you know, it takes a

43:55

long time for these protocols to sort of spin

43:57

up. So we'd be hesitant in making new gaming

43:59

investments for both. protocols that have not already

44:01

been developing for years. RWA

44:04

is actually, I think, a bit contrarian

44:06

here. We're fairly bearish

44:08

on sort of think it's a

44:10

next cycle play, right? If you're

44:12

coming on chain, especially private credit,

44:14

real estate, a lot

44:16

of these, you know, sort of seven to

44:18

12 percent yield kind of sort

44:21

of plays are I

44:23

think are not what people are taking

44:26

smart contract risk for. So especially

44:28

a lot of these protocols take a long

44:31

time for liquidity to develop in their marketplaces.

44:33

So not bullish on

44:35

those for this cycle and

44:37

passing on a lot of those. But certainly

44:39

think eventually we'll have an ecosystem on chain

44:42

where you can invest in everything you can

44:45

invest in traditional portfolios, equities,

44:47

bonds, real estate,

44:49

et cetera. But probably more of a next

44:51

cycle thing. So for this cycle, we're really

44:53

looking, you know, deep in infrastructure, et cetera,

44:56

to sort of capitalise. We're very, very cautious

44:58

on making investments right now. It's

45:00

just that, you know, evaluations are very,

45:02

very high. I

45:05

want to go back to just looking at the markets here. We've

45:07

got Jason, we've got H.C. Berger

45:09

as well. H.C. I want to go to

45:11

you first. You know, you put out a nice post. Yeah,

45:15

I pinned a nice post from 2022, but instead of reading

45:17

it, I'll give you the market tell us where you think

45:19

the markets are heading, where you think the markets are at

45:21

now. And it's just fascinating to

45:23

see the fear and greed index being so fucking

45:25

volatile in crypto. There were peak greed just a

45:27

week or two ago. And now we're

45:30

barely in the greed levels. I don't know why I like

45:32

that indicator. Go ahead, H.C. Yeah,

45:35

well, I think we're roughly where we should be.

45:37

So the price is neither too low nor too

45:39

high. We're sort of in no

45:41

man's land, at least according to my

45:43

own estimations, which is the power law

45:45

corridor. Where

45:47

we're going from here is also pretty hard

45:50

to say. I'm I

45:52

tend to think that the havings

45:55

don't have any causal effect on the price

45:57

or maybe they do, but we shouldn't think of the.

46:00

that way because it doesn't really matter. The price

46:03

does seem to have periodic

46:05

cycles of strong upward movement,

46:07

but they're limited in length.

46:09

So they last for maybe

46:11

one or two years, something

46:14

like that. So if

46:16

that general trend continues again, then

46:18

we could well see the price

46:21

continue to increase over the year,

46:23

but not until the end of 2025

46:27

or something like that. A lot of people tend

46:29

to expect if the

46:31

price starts to increase after

46:33

the halving. This time

46:35

it seems to be different. The price

46:37

increased before the halving, which is something

46:40

new. And it also speaks in favor

46:42

of the halving not having a causal

46:45

effect on price appreciation.

46:47

Unfortunately, of course,

46:49

this doesn't guarantee anything. And the price

46:51

could, of course, just gradually

46:53

slide down again to maybe something

46:55

like even the 40s or

46:58

even 30s could be possible. What

47:01

could lead such a

47:05

slide? Anything.

47:07

I don't think it necessarily

47:10

needs to be something dramatic.

47:12

It's just everyone is expecting

47:14

price to go up. But

47:17

how such ETF inflows? How

47:19

could the market slide with so much money still coming into

47:21

the market? Just a

47:23

lot of sellers, I guess. We

47:25

still have a lot of sellers. Most people

47:27

are hodlers. They have Bitcoin, which

47:30

they bought before the ETFs existed. So

47:33

yeah, it could happen. 30K is really

47:35

on the low side, but it's what

47:37

I have at the bottom of my

47:39

corridor of possible values. So I can't

47:42

rule it out. I don't think it's

47:44

the most likely scenario, but

47:47

it could happen. I mean, in general, people

47:49

have been expecting prices which are way too

47:51

high in this space. I mean, stuff

47:54

like the stock to flow model. And I don't

47:56

know if people really believe it, but the stock

47:58

to FOMO model with which sort of

48:01

expects an infinite price within

48:03

the reasonable time horizon. All

48:05

of that is way too high. So

48:08

yeah, I think it's better if we not

48:11

expect, but if

48:15

we take into account the possibility that

48:17

the opposite is going to happen of

48:19

what we think should happen right after

48:21

halving. Cool. Leah,

48:23

Jason, would love your thoughts and I'll go to

48:25

Rarida afterwards. Yeah,

48:27

so sure. I think what's happening right

48:29

now in the market is pretty interesting.

48:32

I think that the Bitcoin ETF has

48:35

definitely propelled the market much further than

48:37

where we should be right now. Naturally,

48:40

obviously, we're seeing this correction, but I

48:42

think what's interesting is every single cycle,

48:44

we always see a correction around

48:47

a 20% correction, sometimes

48:49

30% COVID, we saw 50% around the halving time. But

48:53

here's the interesting thing. The

48:55

market has, the ETF has pushed us further than

48:57

we should be. So now we're correcting, but what

48:59

if we're gonna correct again to

49:01

where we should be? So I think we should be

49:03

at around $60,000, but

49:06

I think we're gonna correct again before, or

49:09

probably straight after the halving. So I wouldn't

49:11

even be surprised if we saw Bitcoin back

49:13

down into the $30,000 levels. That

49:16

seems a lot more healthy, a lot more sustainable,

49:18

and a lot more, makes

49:21

a lot more sense of where we should be.

49:23

And then I also had somebody earlier talk about

49:25

what's going on geopolitically, and maybe we won't see

49:27

this bull run. But in terms of that, I

49:29

completely disagree. I think history

49:32

is the best thing that we have to go on

49:34

when we wanna predict the future of the market. And

49:37

COVID was an incredible example. We saw

49:40

the world shut down, everything shut down,

49:42

and yet Bitcoin crashed 50%, but

49:44

then we still got that incredible bull run. So

49:46

I think despite what goes on in the Middle

49:48

East and how much money they decide to print

49:50

or whatever it is to fund more wars, I

49:53

think we're still gonna get this bull run. The halving's gonna

49:55

happen, we will correct, like I said, maybe down to

49:57

the $30,000 levels. obviously

50:00

quite bearish but I think it's definitely a possibility.

50:02

And then from then onwards, I think we're going

50:04

to have an incredible bull run 18 months and

50:07

that's it. I don't think anything's going to be

50:09

particularly different this cycle. Yeah, Leah, I

50:11

was saying that from a bull

50:13

run perspective, I think all of that

50:15

is bullish for Bitcoin. Oh,

50:17

absolutely. And it always is because there's

50:23

money in a place where it's safe. And the

50:26

fact is, if you just zoom out and look

50:28

at the chart, Bitcoin is the greatest store of

50:30

value. It's always moving up and to the right.

50:32

And when times were so uncertain, during

50:34

COVID and even with Russia and Ukraine,

50:36

when all of that started, Bitcoin

50:39

just continued to surge. So I totally agree with you. I think

50:41

it's going to be extremely bullish for

50:43

Bitcoin. On that point though, Simon, it's a Bitcoin

50:45

crash reaction when the attack started. So I think

50:48

Bitcoin does pretty much instantly. Yeah,

50:50

so I think short-term reaction. And then

50:52

it always happens where people see it

50:54

as a risk on asset during

50:57

the crisis. And then they realize the fundamentals and

50:59

the market gets back to what it should be.

51:01

And they realize it's bullish. I

51:04

don't know. If the market thinks it's

51:06

a hedge against Black

51:11

Swan events and a store of value, then

51:13

the price should reflect that from the get-go.

51:15

That should be the emotional response, like, oh, I call store of

51:18

value Bitcoin. And we haven't seen that. No, I'm not saying we're

51:20

not going to see it, but just to kind of point out,

51:22

still seeing as a risk asset by

51:24

the looks of it. But let's go down that

51:26

path here, because if we start getting into geopolitics,

51:28

Scott will be pissed. But Jason, I'd love to

51:31

get your thoughts on the market

51:33

to you and Fred, because I want to kind of

51:36

go back and forth with the reader afterwards. Go ahead,

51:38

Jason. Yeah, sure. Hi, guys.

51:40

Good afternoon. Good morning. This is

51:42

coming to the end of the session. So I'm

51:44

not going to reiterate a lot of the points.

51:46

I think Simon's macro summary was very good. I

51:48

think James' ETF summary was very good. There's no

51:50

points I would disagree with. As

51:54

To your point about the reaction to

51:57

geopolitical events, Bitcoin is still very... Yeah

52:00

let's not forget this so he doesn't

52:02

have that a deal that real condoms

52:04

on say save of feel about were

52:06

long way off that that's equally. We

52:08

all pass the stage where bitcoin is

52:10

seen as a it's an experimental an

52:12

idea what the has the fact that

52:15

the that the concept of bitcoin going

52:17

sets zero or going away is is

52:19

it just gone way past that stage

52:21

is now question where we go from

52:23

here and the reality is gonna come

52:25

into the space it on Love listening

52:27

to you guys because you guys for

52:29

the markets much more closely than I

52:31

do. Actually it's on the in I'll

52:33

be in the spice I his big

52:36

mining Daskal for about seven years and

52:38

I just sort of i'm a zoom

52:40

out caught a guy are lots of

52:42

mass of bitcoins so amongst all the

52:44

noises going on said me the signal

52:46

is what is the messiah it's and

52:48

the masses always about that dollars between

52:50

supply and demand. that idea, ever decreasing

52:52

supply, the ever increasing demand yes with

52:54

dumps everywhere spoke with with see those

52:57

two lines are you on quizzically and

52:59

diverging in in. The way that they

53:01

also it's the shoe answer to the

53:03

question that will Bitcoin got off the

53:05

hall thinks that you answer is yes

53:07

so with on the other spices is

53:09

finished and but said the time scally

53:11

is obviously the question this all these

53:13

other factors that a sector and the

53:15

weight of them on what we're doing

53:17

now how much it will affect it

53:19

but look in the long term zoom

53:22

out. been able to relax and a

53:24

glass of wine and by store hold

53:26

Bitcoin securely and turn and jester and

53:28

just enjoy the right. Side.

53:30

To be fine or enough time for all of

53:32

your thoughts on the Mcdonalds was discuss if you

53:34

times over the last few days after the to

53:36

get your takes off. yeah

53:39

i'll just say no we were talking on

53:41

friday and i said you know i the

53:43

only thing i know about charge technically is

53:45

from the guess i watch on scott shell

53:47

but i went back and i just looked

53:49

at the heavens and and where we go

53:52

after that i said hey we gotta get

53:54

down to the low sixties and then you

53:56

know he had everything happened over the weekend

53:58

here we are the low sixties And Layup

54:01

brought it up right at the end, which

54:03

is you see a 20 to 30% dip

54:05

somewhere around

54:08

pre-having and post-having. It's happened every

54:11

single time. And then every

54:13

single time you've got five to eight

54:15

months later is when you

54:18

do the massive explosion. So I still

54:20

think you can bank on five to

54:22

eight months later. Everybody who's holding is

54:24

going to be very happy. What's

54:26

going to happen between now and then is

54:29

we should just get some shot. But you

54:31

got five to eight months to wait. And

54:33

we all got a little excited with the

54:35

ETFs and the early high. But we're still

54:37

in that window. It's always been like that

54:40

ever since Bitcoin started. And until there's a

54:42

reason, it won't. I'm just following that trend.

54:44

It's a fascinating trend. And

54:46

as Scott said it, like no matter what, at the end of the

54:48

day, it hits you a piece itself and

54:51

everything else ends up being noise. Obviously,

54:53

the ETF kind of shook that up a bit.

54:55

And we've had we're talking about reports from I can't

54:59

remember who it was. Well, there it is.

55:01

One of them was from JP

55:04

Morgan, Morgan Stanley as well, talking

55:07

about the rally, the post-hiving rally

55:09

being a bit more mild, considering we've seen some

55:11

of it already. And then we've got Bernstein being

55:13

a bit more bullish, having a target of 150K

55:15

by 2025. But,

55:18

Rita, I want to get your thoughts on the discussion so far. I'm

55:21

going back to the question. Ask Tom, any specific

55:23

narratives that are interesting to you. Yeah,

55:26

yeah, yeah, sure thing. Thanks,

55:28

thanks, Mario. So just quickly

55:30

talking about the Bitcoin price

55:32

and movement, this cycle, in

55:35

my opinion, and based on our analysis,

55:37

it's been very predictive, too

55:39

easy, if I'm honest, which is a little bit

55:41

concerning in the grand scheme of things because you

55:43

want to be wrong sometimes, you want to be

55:45

challenged. If

55:48

anything, to the upside, so long

55:50

as have been getting it easy

55:52

in comparison to the shorters and

55:54

prices have been front run. So typically what

55:57

we do for our

55:59

kind of entry point. We will look at three ever

56:01

entry point try and will look at the base model

56:03

and then we you know what to keep it very

56:05

simple on break it down by thirds vice. Not. We've

56:07

noticed I was single time. You know, cannot

56:09

assess assess. Second gets heat. And.

56:12

And the last one gets phone runner and

56:14

typically south of here too busy to twenty

56:16

cents for treatments which is a very valid

56:18

point. looking at historically what happened in the

56:20

past. Having said that, with the inflows

56:22

coming from the eat Yes! I

56:24

don't know what are we gonna get that

56:26

law school back to bring it down to

56:28

that. Twenty cents and nobody does get litter

56:30

be at fault run before before we get

56:32

to that busy just kind of compare in

56:34

a over the past few months or so

56:37

we heard of with the and the numbers

56:39

of thirty thousand dollars have been mentioned which

56:41

was the one point say a very viable

56:43

technical and at level which which I believe

56:45

after the easiest new kind of broke out

56:47

sweetie drops about thirty nine thirty eight thousand

56:49

dollars and.com of gave it that take quite

56:52

so we kind of tic tacs and moved.

56:54

On from that the I don't personally from

56:56

a personal opinion adults yourself going back to.levels

56:58

Having said that you know will com a

57:00

gun retracement there when we had to T

57:02

levels slight. We have the the fifty Nine

57:05

Thousand and Six Fifty Nine thousand dollars and

57:07

we have another one which is sixty five

57:09

to fifty Six thousand dollars to the fifteen

57:11

on got kind of text very briefly at

57:14

during the day the In as he can

57:16

offer the knife conflict between Iran and and

57:18

In and he's royal and are we going

57:20

to go and see the Sixty Five Thousand

57:22

Fifty Six thousand yet. To be seen like

57:25

and couple things that we looking at

57:27

looking up very closely a the central

57:29

rate cuts that would happen at some

57:31

point in the summer or predicted to

57:33

happen at some point in the summer

57:35

so we know if this kind of

57:37

generally his sentiments right but eventually you

57:39

get that big one of which also

57:41

time tweet moody summer which is quite

57:43

it's i mean own self main go

57:45

holiday.com a fast so we'll kind of

57:47

watching closely at what's gonna happen over

57:50

the course of the next few months.

57:52

What does it mean to be queen?

57:54

rice and are we gonna get dots

57:56

ah run post the whole thing that

57:58

even when we get kind of pullback

58:00

in the summer, it's not going to make much difference

58:02

if you enter now and later. But

58:05

also, how does it translate? Because you've asked them, this

58:07

is a nice segue to go on to ALT and

58:09

a narrative. What does it

58:12

mean to ALT? Does it mean that ALT is

58:14

going to get hammered in the meantime? And

58:16

they're only going to see a bit of

58:18

a break post that kind of run that's

58:21

going to happen in Q4 September onwards, remains

58:23

to be seen. In terms

58:26

of the big plays that we're looking into

58:28

now, so real-world assets, I know one of

58:31

the panelists, there were a bit bearish on

58:33

top of them for this cycle. So

58:37

we are on the other side of that.

58:39

So we're doubling down on the real-world assets,

58:41

we're doubling down on deep end, and

58:44

we've always been doubling down on infrastructure. So anything

58:47

related to that, we see it as money, and

58:50

we see it as a major

58:52

growth plan going forward. Something else,

58:54

which is absolutely gold that's been

58:57

briefly touched on previously, I believe

58:59

by Isabel, or somebody else, apologies

59:01

if I didn't capture the name, it was

59:03

the fees on Bitcoin. We're predicting the fees

59:05

to grow. So some of the people that

59:07

have been talking a long time, and I

59:09

think we had the space, Mario, last year,

59:11

where we talked about miners and investment into

59:13

miners and what it means and what have

59:16

you. And I think people now are slowly

59:18

starting to understand that there is money to

59:20

be made there, particularly the predictions

59:22

of the fees on Bitcoin and what have you. Thank

59:24

you. Tom

59:26

and Rita, Tom,

59:29

can you repeat why you were bearish on, not

59:32

bearish, but you think that the RWAs are next

59:34

cycle play? And Rita, I want to put it

59:36

back and forth there because I want to try to make my

59:38

decision on how aggressive to be on that market. Yeah,

59:42

we've seen dozens of protocols in real estate,

59:44

dozens of protocols in private credit, and

59:47

very similar verticals

59:50

that are giving

59:52

you 8 to 15% yields. And I think I'm

59:54

just very hesitant to

59:58

think people are coming back. on

1:00:00

chain for those yields. In

1:00:02

a previous life, I used to

1:00:04

do that and allocate to those

1:00:06

assets for institutional investors. One of

1:00:08

the biggest things is recovery rates

1:00:10

and understanding defaults and all that.

1:00:14

None of that is established on chain

1:00:16

right now, and there's no history of

1:00:18

that. I have a very hard time

1:00:20

believing folks are coming into the ecosystem

1:00:22

to try to allocate to those verticals.

1:00:25

In terms of RWAs, great,

1:00:27

very happy to allocate to Treasuries,

1:00:29

but I think that space is

1:00:31

already really over-allocated with Ando and

1:00:34

a few others. Up and

1:00:36

above Treasuries, RWAs are a next

1:00:38

cycle play to me as folks continue to

1:00:40

build out their entire portfolio on chain. Right

1:00:43

now, I still think we're at the

1:00:45

bleeding edge of consumer

1:00:48

applications and other things like

1:00:51

D-Pen. Like, like, like,

1:00:54

Rada said, is our favorite play. Let

1:00:57

me, so, so, Father of Memes, sorry,

1:01:00

Father of Meme, we're gonna chat to you in a

1:01:02

bit. Appreciate coming as a sponsor of the show, and

1:01:04

we talked earlier. Tom kind of

1:01:06

mentioned that Meme, I think it

1:01:08

was you going through some numbers, and Meme, of course,

1:01:10

led this kind of rally. Rada, your thoughts on Meme,

1:01:12

of course, is something that we've discussed a lot on

1:01:15

the show and we're probably pretty more confident now to

1:01:17

kind of discuss it and debate it rather than before

1:01:19

is like kind of more taboo for a big part

1:01:21

of crypto. Your thoughts on Meme

1:01:24

coins and is that just a short-term, you

1:01:26

know, hype and kind of pump and dumpish

1:01:28

or you're like more, you know, more, more

1:01:30

panelists than before. They believe that this is

1:01:32

more of a trend that's similar to ICOs

1:01:34

in 2017, NFTs in the last bull market.

1:01:37

Another concept of decentralized communities based

1:01:39

around Memes, around stories, could be a lot

1:01:41

more, you know, have a lot more potential

1:01:45

than we're currently seeing. Yeah,

1:01:48

it's always an interesting conversation,

1:01:51

particularly for me personally, I hold

1:01:53

my hands up, Arminiusi

1:01:55

means in the grand scheme of things, but

1:01:57

it's been a very steep kind of learning

1:01:59

period for me. getting involved in, you know,

1:02:02

and investing in a lot of projects and trying

1:02:04

to understand obviously what makes them special and

1:02:06

what would make them better than other projects out

1:02:08

there. But in the grand scheme of things, I

1:02:10

don't see that as a seasonal kind of type

1:02:12

I see that as something to remain. There is

1:02:15

a lot of volume that's been vacuumed

1:02:17

into into the meme see, right.

1:02:19

And for me personally, as somebody

1:02:21

that comes from, you know, come

1:02:23

corporate institutions, kind of venture capitalism

1:02:25

and what have you, when

1:02:27

I start kind of getting involved in terms of investing in

1:02:30

memes, I just find them incredibly fun. Like

1:02:32

they're very captivating, right. And also they move

1:02:34

very, very, very quick. And I could see

1:02:36

why a lot of people are completely attracted

1:02:38

by that because it's fast and furious. We're

1:02:41

talking about generally speaking shorter

1:02:43

term investments, right. So long term meme

1:02:45

is not the same time as long

1:02:47

term investing in a infrastructure projects where

1:02:49

you could be investing for five years,

1:02:51

right, really help building that ecosystem. So

1:02:53

I see a lot of people do

1:02:56

a lot of the new entrants into

1:02:58

the market being captivated by that, right.

1:03:01

Not necessarily going 100% into memes, but these

1:03:03

are located and will continue to allocate a

1:03:05

lot portion of their portfolio or portion of

1:03:08

their portfolio into memes. And therefore, from from

1:03:10

a narrative standpoint, this is something to remain.

1:03:12

For me personally, I've got theory, I've got

1:03:14

theory that means not gonna even that even

1:03:16

in the by even in the bear market,

1:03:18

there will always going to be a few

1:03:21

memes that will still have decent

1:03:23

runs. And those memes will

1:03:25

continue to pull people in because you

1:03:27

know, it does the big success stories

1:03:29

that really attract the the the

1:03:32

attention of people, you know, talking about the pet

1:03:34

days, we're talking about the flow keys, we're talking

1:03:36

about similar kind of, you know, project pool, for

1:03:38

example, I don't know if I should be mentioning

1:03:40

projects here or not. But generally speaking, you know,

1:03:42

there's kind of big success stories in the bear

1:03:44

market where everybody's taking, you know, the pain, not

1:03:46

a lot of people are making profit and what

1:03:48

have you really do wonders in

1:03:50

terms of marketing and PR. Thank you. Yeah,

1:03:53

we're gonna talk to to Book of Meme just

1:03:55

in a bit in a couple of minutes. And you guys

1:03:57

are on base chain and obviously basis

1:04:00

taking a lot of the limelight now for meme coins, but let

1:04:02

me get some more thoughts on this timing layer. Any

1:04:05

other thoughts on the discussion? Yeah,

1:04:07

so I think that meme coins are actually one of

1:04:10

the best things to happen to crypto. And here's why.

1:04:12

The reality is we all know Bitcoin is the best

1:04:14

store of value. We know

1:04:16

that it's the best type of money.

1:04:18

But unfortunately, nobody really cares about decentralization.

1:04:20

Nobody really cares about freedom and security.

1:04:22

What they want to do is have

1:04:24

fun, make money fast, because

1:04:26

the world is going to share and nobody's able

1:04:28

to make much money these days. And so

1:04:31

they want a place where they can do that.

1:04:33

And meme coins are providing that value. They're a

1:04:35

lot of fun. People are making a lot of

1:04:37

money. And at the same time, it's

1:04:39

an amazing way to bring more people into

1:04:41

crypto. Because like I said,

1:04:43

people just don't care about Bitcoin. They don't

1:04:45

care about security. They don't care about decentralization.

1:04:48

And on top of all of that, meme

1:04:50

coins are actually saving a lot of these

1:04:52

chains. Cardano is basically a ghost

1:04:54

chain at this point. Nothing's been built on Cardano.

1:04:57

Nobody cares about ADA. But perhaps if they built

1:04:59

some meme coins on it, it might actually bring

1:05:01

life back to the chain. The

1:05:04

only thing that's really blown up base

1:05:06

chain is memes. That's exactly

1:05:08

what's happening on base chain right now. It's

1:05:10

what's happening on Sol. And it's also an

1:05:12

amazing way to test these chains. So let's

1:05:14

just look at Solana for a second. We

1:05:16

all talk about mass adoption and we all

1:05:19

want Bitcoin and crypto and the whole space

1:05:21

to go mainstream. But how

1:05:23

is it going to go mainstream if they can't

1:05:25

even handle all the transactions that's happening? Solana was

1:05:27

an amazing example. All these memes blew up on

1:05:30

Solana and the chain just couldn't handle it. So

1:05:32

not only is it fun and people can make

1:05:34

money and it brings more people into crypto, but

1:05:36

it's also a great test for when

1:05:38

mass adoption happens. Yeah,

1:05:41

we kind of saw that in action. Obviously, we're seeing

1:05:43

a base chain now. We saw that with linear. There's

1:05:45

a project called Foxy. They did a

1:05:47

meme coin. It's a meme coin that launched on OKX, WallbQ

1:05:49

coin, buy a bit, et cetera. Just

1:05:51

all the top sexes. The

1:05:54

amount of liquidity they brought to linear, the amount of attention they

1:05:56

brought to linear, which is a blockchain

1:05:58

launched by consensus. which

1:06:00

hasn't been getting a lot, I think the attention it deserves

1:06:03

has just been incredible. I think memes are

1:06:05

the power of meme coins have on bringing

1:06:07

attention to a chain. It's just still

1:06:09

mind boggling to me despite being deep in the meme coin

1:06:11

world as an

1:06:14

investor and incubator and on the media side. It's

1:06:17

just been fascinating. But let me go to Tom.

1:06:19

Tom, it's more long term. A

1:06:22

lot of people, Scott kind of made that argument on nothing

1:06:24

ran. We debated it heavily. Like meme coins are just a

1:06:27

decentralized casino on

1:06:30

steroids. I just don't

1:06:32

like that characterization. I think that's true. It

1:06:34

would be an idiot to deny that. But

1:06:37

at the same time, I think it's just a

1:06:39

lot more potential that's still untapped, similar to NFTs.

1:06:41

It's just a lot more potential that crypto kiddies

1:06:43

and obviously that's materializing. It's more potential

1:06:45

to decentralized communities based around a meme, a

1:06:47

story, a narrative. Yeah.

1:06:51

I think this and lay ahead on it perfectly.

1:06:55

I think financial nihilism, so the

1:06:57

ability to make life

1:06:59

changing gains in a very short period of time

1:07:02

and sort of YOLO into

1:07:05

these meme coins and others is actually

1:07:07

a financial use case for crypto.

1:07:12

A few folks have talked about this, but that's

1:07:14

how people are looking at crypto from the

1:07:16

younger crowd. I think that's fine. That could

1:07:18

be one of the use cases of crypto

1:07:20

and meme coins fit perfectly with that trend.

1:07:24

What's your strategy at Master Ventures or you guys on

1:07:26

the media

1:07:29

side with Kyle with meme coins? I

1:07:32

don't know, like Rand, for example, went all in even

1:07:34

launching his own meme coin. Others

1:07:37

like Scott, a bit more hesitant. Where do you guys stand? Yeah,

1:07:42

so I represent the fun side. We're

1:07:44

a traditional long only venture fund. Meme

1:07:46

coins are definitely not our

1:07:48

bag. But I think on

1:07:51

the other side of the business and in terms of what

1:07:53

Kyle and the rest of the entity

1:07:55

is exploring, I mean, it's hard to

1:07:57

ignore the gains that have been made. So. definitely

1:08:00

considering allocating there but

1:08:03

it's a slippery slope. These things can

1:08:05

go to zero very quickly

1:08:07

so I just want to make sure we

1:08:09

manage risk. We'd love to just zoom

1:08:12

out a bit because

1:08:16

I know we're getting close to the end of the

1:08:18

space and just want to give some perspective on as

1:08:20

we approach the halving here in the next few days.

1:08:23

We'll keep it short because we're shifting

1:08:27

to memes because we got without father of meme on stage

1:08:29

he'll be doing an AMA back and forth

1:08:31

with us. Hey Kyle how are you? Yeah

1:08:33

I heard you say I was enjoying listening but when

1:08:35

you ask

1:08:40

Tom about the memes I think they figured it's probably

1:08:42

best that he doesn't respond to that. I

1:08:45

tried to lure you in and it worked. Tom's

1:08:47

supposed to be the you know not supposed to

1:08:49

be he has the buttoned up institutional kind of

1:08:51

you know even though maybe he

1:08:53

loves him at heart he's you

1:08:56

know so anyway that's me independent Kyle

1:08:58

you know the deejans side of me

1:09:00

the side that handles

1:09:02

my own money not that of other LPs

1:09:04

and investors but I

1:09:08

yeah so for me I think that's like

1:09:10

it's quite fascinating you

1:09:12

know I actually so I talked to the

1:09:16

some of the guys that are behind

1:09:18

pump.fund did you know that they're generating

1:09:20

about like five hundred

1:09:22

thousand dollars a day in revenue which is

1:09:25

crazy not a nut

1:09:28

I think what's most people have said you

1:09:30

know it kind of covers the gamut pretty

1:09:32

well but I do unlike a

1:09:34

lot of people and just quickly sorry Kyle but

1:09:37

I forgot pump.fund for the audience is like a

1:09:39

it's like the shop five meme course just allows

1:09:41

you to easily launch meme coin it does it

1:09:43

in a way to avoid you know kind of

1:09:45

you reach a certain amount of you know

1:09:49

you reach certain level of raise you kind of

1:09:51

put those targets and as soon as you hit

1:09:53

that liquidity number send the token immediate lists and

1:09:55

yeah you know the kyco the problem with it

1:09:57

right now is that like snipers will go they'll

1:10:01

take a bunch of the... Yeah, so it's not perfect.

1:10:03

But anyway, they've got investments from like some of

1:10:05

the biggest... I couldn't believe it. Teams from, I

1:10:08

think, Oxford or something like that. And they got

1:10:10

investments from a lot

1:10:12

of the really big tier one funds, which is

1:10:14

crazy because when you go to the site, it

1:10:16

feels like those hairy potters. Well, equity or token?

1:10:20

Well, we'll talk about it later. I don't even know if I'm allowed

1:10:22

to disclose most of the stuff. But

1:10:25

yeah, so my theory is, and

1:10:28

what I'm looking for is, I actually

1:10:31

think that we're going to have to evolve

1:10:33

the same way. Like I said before,

1:10:35

this meme coin thing feels

1:10:37

exactly like the 2021 NFT run.

1:10:41

It's like people pretending that the

1:10:43

communities really matter when the thing

1:10:45

was just invented yesterday. And I

1:10:48

think initially, you have a

1:10:51

lot of these influencers that are shilling these

1:10:53

things saying, yeah, community is great. I like

1:10:55

to art. But they know

1:10:57

they're just dumping on each other. It's PvP environment.

1:11:00

But eventually,

1:11:02

when influencers realize that they

1:11:07

have to be more transparent about what's going on,

1:11:09

then they start saying, yeah, well, this is all

1:11:11

the game about who's exult

1:11:13

liquidity. But my opinion is, memes

1:11:17

have been part of internet culture for a very

1:11:19

long time. And they

1:11:21

do attract attention. And they're

1:11:23

valuable to us. Like anyone

1:11:27

that's under, I mean, probably

1:11:29

40 and under, is going to appreciate memes.

1:11:32

I think that it can be a very powerful

1:11:34

thing to

1:11:36

identify a brand around

1:11:39

something. And I think that memes,

1:11:41

the ones that will evolve

1:11:44

to ones that have utility. And I know that right now, a

1:11:46

lot of people will say, oh, if

1:11:48

the devs are still involved, or if the second

1:11:51

they try to stop being anything but a meme,

1:11:54

it's not interesting anymore. I would tend to

1:11:56

disagree when we look ahead of time. And

1:11:58

I think A couple

1:12:00

of good examples are Pepecoin,

1:12:03

which is the best number one

1:12:05

thing ever, which anyone who doesn't

1:12:07

know is the actual original Pepecoin.

1:12:11

And the one that launched on ETH and

1:12:13

that's now at $3 billion is just

1:12:15

literally a direct copy knockoff of that.

1:12:17

But if you look at the original

1:12:19

Pepecoin developers, they built the world's first

1:12:21

meme, like layer one for memes and

1:12:24

other things. They actually built the world's first NFT marketplace

1:12:26

all in 2016. And

1:12:29

now they're building the craziest AI project they've ever

1:12:31

seen. And they have

1:12:33

a game theory and burn mechanism built

1:12:35

in for Pepecoin that I

1:12:38

promise you anyone on this call that this thing

1:12:40

will absolutely explode. One more thing, Mario, hold on.

1:12:44

But the other one that I identified very, very quickly,

1:12:46

I think pretty sure the first person to talk about

1:12:48

it was this Tucker

1:12:50

Carlson, right? And I know that like, I

1:12:54

just like I know how big Tucker Carlson

1:12:56

is. I love the fact that he got

1:12:58

fired from Fox for speaking and then he

1:13:00

started his own X account. And

1:13:03

when I saw the first animated film, like a

1:13:05

million dollar market cap, I was like, fuck yeah,

1:13:07

I'm in on this one because like, it

1:13:09

is, it's great, right? And I guess it's

1:13:12

really good. So I like this personally. I

1:13:15

think this is the evolution of how I

1:13:17

agree. And it's just as we get

1:13:19

started going out of community, there's like another token I saw like

1:13:21

RFK token. I think if you've not been

1:13:23

on our show and it's actually on RFK's website, the token

1:13:26

is listed as a meme coin. It's just, you know, it

1:13:28

just becomes part of the narrative, part of the community. And

1:13:31

Father of Meme, I appreciate you guys being there and being

1:13:33

patient with us. You know, since we're talking about meme coins,

1:13:35

I think it's perfect time to segue to what you guys

1:13:38

are doing and you know, you guys launching on base,

1:13:40

which is getting a lot of the traction right now.

1:13:42

First question I have for you is what

1:13:45

is Book of Father of Meme? Well,

1:13:48

thank you firstly. Let me start by saying

1:13:50

amazing conversation. It's been a great space. Just

1:13:53

hearing some of the back and forth and how you guys debate,

1:13:56

you know, getting a read on the market

1:13:58

is great for new investors. and

1:14:00

all the best of the likes. So really great to be here. But

1:14:03

yes, we are a father of meme and

1:14:06

we are on base shame. We are looking to be

1:14:08

the biggest, if not top 10

1:14:10

meme coin on layer two. We've

1:14:13

been working on this for a while and we're

1:14:15

very confident that the narrative that we've been building

1:14:17

with the father of meme who if

1:14:19

you guys aren't familiar, just to give

1:14:21

you a little bit of a recap where we

1:14:23

go into it, it's Richard Dawkins. Richard Dawkins, the

1:14:26

evolutionary biologist and I'm sure we all either hate,

1:14:28

know and love who was also

1:14:30

a celebrity debater of atheism and

1:14:32

dogmatic beliefs. He coined the term

1:14:35

meme back in the 70s and

1:14:38

has been gestating in the collective

1:14:40

consciousness for decades now and it really

1:14:42

latched on with social media and now

1:14:45

has become this huge vehicle

1:14:47

wealth we know as meme coins. So

1:14:49

what better narrative to encapsulate

1:14:52

the history that we've all really been a part of over

1:14:54

the last 10 years than to

1:14:56

start almost the origin. That's

1:14:59

fascinating by the way. I didn't notice Richard that coined the

1:15:01

term. What context did he, I'm a

1:15:03

big fan of Richard Dawkins, but what context did

1:15:05

he coined the term meme and

1:15:07

what context did he do so? Great question,

1:15:10

great question. So in the 70s, he was

1:15:12

writing a paper on genetics and he used

1:15:14

the word meme to define when

1:15:19

something is imitated to

1:15:21

connect or communicate with others. So it's

1:15:24

great that highlighted what happened when we started

1:15:26

this meme culture in social media. There's a

1:15:28

bunch of kids who grew up on the

1:15:30

internet creating these images and

1:15:33

it started off as just humor. We all saw

1:15:35

the humor. Money of us maybe

1:15:37

never even knew what was going on with the

1:15:39

kids who were using memes. And then next thing

1:15:41

you know, it's become, I don't

1:15:43

think anyone is in marketing right now in

1:15:45

college or professionally and not learning how to

1:15:47

utilize memes and marketing. It's become a larger

1:15:50

than life thing. And I don't think the

1:15:52

irony is missing on any of us that the

1:15:54

guy who doesn't believe in the creator has inadvertently

1:15:56

created one of the massive pieces

1:15:59

of our generation, which is. And

1:16:01

you guys launch can you tell me

1:16:03

exactly in a couple hours we launched our stick in

1:16:05

Eastern We're on the precipice of the launch here. So

1:16:07

that's why we're so excited to be here with you

1:16:09

guys And so so can you tell

1:16:11

me more about first you're launching on base with big

1:16:13

fans of base big fans of Brett for example The

1:16:15

biggest meme quantum on base. Yes, the base ecosystem So

1:16:17

and and as I think it's lay off someone mentioned

1:16:19

that Meme of course are bringing so

1:16:21

much liquidity into base and as they've done so on and

1:16:24

they're gonna do tell the chains Why

1:16:26

base and where do you think? And

1:16:28

I'm glad that you mentioned Brett shout

1:16:30

out to Brett They announced their partnership

1:16:32

with us among many others that we're

1:16:34

looking forward to roll out as we

1:16:36

come to launch But why base everyone's

1:16:38

know why well mean coins are made on a

1:16:40

lot of networks And I think the points that

1:16:42

you guys made before Me coming

1:16:45

on are great mean coins are some of the

1:16:47

biggest drivers of wealth in the last cycle if

1:16:49

you missed out on mean points You missed out

1:16:51

on your competitors and trying to keep up with

1:16:54

their games and what

1:16:56

Leia said about Mean

1:16:58

coins testing the network. I think that's a

1:17:00

great point because it makes Kind

1:17:03

of like an inadvertent utility I

1:17:05

think mean coins tests pop culture and

1:17:07

they test the strength of networks across

1:17:09

the space The mean coins really are

1:17:12

drivers of what the people who are using these

1:17:14

technologies who use the internet who use social meals

1:17:16

They what is what is their finger on what

1:17:18

are they worried about? What did what do they

1:17:20

care about? There was a point in time where

1:17:23

Elon Musk could could tweet and you know That

1:17:25

tweet's gonna be turned into a coin within minutes

1:17:27

and go to hundreds of millions of dollars of

1:17:29

market cap So I really believe if Bitcoin Litecoin,

1:17:32

you know you name these things are

1:17:35

the organs of the body of crypto

1:17:37

mean coins is slowly becoming the powerhouse

1:17:39

of the cell It's the mitochondria that's

1:17:41

driving these chains and bringing new investors

1:17:44

to see where can I make money

1:17:46

the fastest? That's what these

1:17:48

mean coins really can do and I had you guys to

1:17:50

take base change because base Coinbase

1:17:52

is probably the biggest adopter, right? If you

1:17:54

want to get on a crypto tomorrow Probably

1:17:57

someone's gonna say we'll download coin based. So

1:18:00

Why not use their layer to which is

1:18:02

probably gonna be on the forefront of anyone

1:18:04

who when me turn household like insane was

1:18:06

pet they will need to com more of

1:18:09

a to everyone they're going no where to

1:18:11

start and as problem coin base layer to

1:18:13

solutions was in my opinion I think the

1:18:15

other people agree is the best solution when

1:18:18

it comes to learn to. As

1:18:20

you eat as a sponsor it should. I get

1:18:22

the a lot of traction sacrificing on your strategy

1:18:24

unbecoming of he said gonna become a top ten

1:18:27

mean Kentucky strategy to get there because that was

1:18:29

no the not playbook to get down things as

1:18:31

a few Ccs building a community k was a

1:18:33

key role and. I mean

1:18:36

point something. just the basics I'm

1:18:38

very lucky, Liquidity, etc. score with

1:18:40

Go the Saints fan as bidding

1:18:42

that credibility at Doc. Seeing sounders

1:18:44

that an how porn that is

1:18:46

basically like this this the the

1:18:49

editor see stories. It is

1:18:51

now. It is the timing of the narrative. Fan.

1:18:53

To be of knowing how to create trucks and

1:18:56

and chaos be one of the main was during

1:18:58

nuts and of tourists get to Kennedy of how

1:19:00

you guys credit so much traction Best on twitter

1:19:02

engagement. Yet request and so we

1:19:04

believe that some the think you point out that

1:19:06

exactly what it takes to make any good project

1:19:08

and space you need a great community. Need

1:19:11

to have connections in and to have them of

1:19:13

billion dollars if you don't know how to network

1:19:15

or know what you do in the states are

1:19:17

not and be able to to do anything successful

1:19:19

sunni the community that network the connections and any

1:19:21

than earth. Media. Have a good narrative.

1:19:24

So we've been continent to build over the

1:19:26

last couple years. A lotta different projects, our

1:19:28

own symbolism, the team of work together. We

1:19:30

haven't worked on our own products, at least

1:19:32

some. I'm very active in the we're Not

1:19:34

here to talk about those who talk of

1:19:36

a former. And we believe that. Would.

1:19:38

Put all these connections together with treat

1:19:40

them the Big! So we we started

1:19:42

building and we came up with the

1:19:45

father me and did the raise which

1:19:47

is probably our first sign when testing

1:19:49

the waters. How much potential in really

1:19:51

hard and if you didn't know we

1:19:53

were sistine a million dollars in one

1:19:55

hour. I'm glad that it was only

1:19:57

an hour. Who knows. What? the a

1:19:59

potential to be I think a year or two

1:20:01

from now, we're going to see mean coins easily

1:20:03

raise $100 million. And

1:20:06

this will all be just an afterthought. But for today,

1:20:08

we are the biggest thing in the space. We've

1:20:10

already made history. And we're going

1:20:13

to continue to do so with this narrative.

1:20:15

And now, what makes this so exciting, even

1:20:17

though we had this plan and everything, these

1:20:19

goals, now that we've already started to make

1:20:21

waves, if there wasn't, you know,

1:20:23

a person we had a connection with

1:20:25

or someone we couldn't touch before, we absolutely

1:20:27

can touch them now. In

1:20:29

this space, we haven't reached a no stone we can't turn. So

1:20:32

we're really excited. You've done enough. You know,

1:20:34

the team loves you enough. You're on

1:20:36

our stage. So congratulations on that as well. And

1:20:38

I'm sure you'll be doing well beyond that. But

1:20:40

the next question is, you know, how

1:20:42

do you and this is more curiosity. First of all, you're

1:20:44

talking about yourself and appreciate you're partnering with us. But

1:20:47

a more personal curiosity, like how would a mean coin become

1:20:49

a top 10 mean coin? What would be your

1:20:51

plan when you sit behind the scenes with your team and come

1:20:54

up with a plan? Absolutely. So you

1:20:56

got to you got to hit that plan from a

1:20:58

lot of different avenues. Basically, you

1:21:00

want to make sure that you have

1:21:02

crypto Twitter on board. And I believe

1:21:04

what we've done so far, we've got

1:21:06

the proverbial blessing from crypto Twitter.

1:21:08

And with some of the more how do you

1:21:10

get that? I'm curious. So

1:21:13

I mean, you get it by putting your your

1:21:15

experience your money where your mouth is. So people

1:21:17

have followed us. We already started to network behind

1:21:19

the scene. And we started to move

1:21:22

and spread the word of our Twitter and it

1:21:24

grew faster than we could expect it. But the

1:21:26

race grew faster than we can expect. So

1:21:28

we knew that the catalyst that we're using the

1:21:31

KOL that we already networked with, and

1:21:33

the market makers and everyone else that we

1:21:35

have in the wings and the advisors and,

1:21:37

you know, amazing people like you guys getting

1:21:39

behind us, led us to this point

1:21:41

where it's like, okay, we have the narrative, we

1:21:43

have the spaces here. Now we

1:21:45

need to make sure that we use these vehicles

1:21:48

correctly, because obviously, we've done products, we know how

1:21:50

to, you know, get the right calls, get the

1:21:52

right exchanges. But how do you put that all

1:21:54

together and make value? Because I think what the

1:21:56

last speaker said is a good point. It can

1:21:58

become very PBT. You got

1:22:01

a couple projects that last year's Pepe's

1:22:03

3 billion now. And we hope that

1:22:05

more and more projects come because that's

1:22:07

how means will continue to become household

1:22:09

names with more shifts, with more Pepe's

1:22:11

and with more FOMO's. But we also

1:22:13

know that a large group of people

1:22:15

investing are chasing, chasing these pumps,

1:22:17

these dumps. It's this,

1:22:19

this PDP play of where will

1:22:21

the liquidity go next? The only

1:22:23

way this space really grows and

1:22:26

stops contracting is by bringing on

1:22:28

new investors. And we have to figure out ways to

1:22:30

onset new investors. And we think that layer two with

1:22:32

base is going to be on the forefront with that.

1:22:34

Because when they do things like the smart wallet that

1:22:37

I don't know if you heard about their, their

1:22:39

implementing and going through testnet, that smart

1:22:41

wallet is going to be huge. Because

1:22:44

right now, I would think that many

1:22:46

would agree, one of the most intimidating things

1:22:48

for someone who's never done crypto are these

1:22:50

seed phrases. If I told you, okay, listen,

1:22:53

you got to put your hard earned

1:22:55

money and your savings into something where

1:22:57

if you forget this random 12 word

1:23:00

phrase, you lose your money forever.

1:23:03

That could turn somebody even off from wanting to

1:23:05

hear anything else. But when you have base chain

1:23:07

working on things where there's look, you know, your

1:23:09

Facebook, the same way you recover your Facebook password,

1:23:11

you can recover your crypto, that will

1:23:13

make people be more open to the idea.

1:23:16

And that's why we're excited to be on base

1:23:18

chain. And hopefully the number one coin on base

1:23:20

chain in a couple hours. You

1:23:22

wanted to introduce to other guests on stage that you brought up. Oh,

1:23:26

absolutely. Henok, I see you. Thank you so much,

1:23:28

buddy. How you been? Great. And

1:23:31

Leah, thank you. Yeah, it's such a privilege to be here.

1:23:33

You know, it's really funny. And

1:23:35

I love what's happening with the father of memes. I'm

1:23:37

really bullish, really excited about this insanely

1:23:39

hype launch today. But

1:23:41

it's so interesting and fun to listen

1:23:43

to all of you guys talk because you guys

1:23:45

would be considered, you know, mainstream crypto media in

1:23:48

the eyes of the crypto verse. And to see

1:23:50

you guys acknowledge and value and validate meme

1:23:52

coins is such a beautiful thing for those that

1:23:54

have been building here for years. And

1:23:57

I'm 100 percent convinced that meme coins are going

1:23:59

to be a huge thing. are going to stay. Mean

1:24:01

coins are here to stay. This industry

1:24:03

will continue to grow. And

1:24:05

it is what it is. Right. And so

1:24:07

I think at this point, everyone listening should

1:24:10

develop a thesis around how are you going

1:24:12

to navigate memes in general. This is

1:24:14

going to be here for years, maybe even a decade or two

1:24:16

to come. Who knows? We don't know exactly how long this will

1:24:18

last the way it is, but it's here.

1:24:20

It's here to say, you know, what was once ridiculed,

1:24:23

you know, stomped on,

1:24:25

disregarded, devalued. You

1:24:27

know, it's now the thing that we're all into. So I'm

1:24:29

excited. And what form, by the way, for me, for anyone

1:24:31

listening, but

1:24:34

how would mean coins look? How would FOMO

1:24:37

look in a year from now? I don't know. You know, Bitcoin

1:24:39

began as a meme. At the end of the day, it was

1:24:41

a brand. It was a logo as a narrative and it was

1:24:43

a community. Right. And it's evolved into so much more than just

1:24:45

that. So I don't know. This

1:24:47

is the legacy of our entire industry. Online

1:24:49

communities rallying around these brands. So

1:24:51

I don't know exactly what it looks like, but

1:24:53

I think that'll always be, you know, the two

1:24:55

basic components, right? A brand, a logo, a narrative,

1:24:58

as well as a community. I

1:25:02

love that, and I think when people who

1:25:04

are new to the space, people who are

1:25:06

old in space, one of the things with

1:25:08

FOMO, with Father and Meem, it's it's chronicling

1:25:10

this journey. We've done amazing animations.

1:25:12

I hope some of you guys, my favorite

1:25:15

ones, the lightsaber fighting Bojack, but we've been

1:25:17

working with some major animation series and more

1:25:19

long form motion

1:25:22

animations to kind of bring that narrative to life

1:25:24

for new investors and let them know, like, who

1:25:26

are the biggest names in the space? Who have

1:25:28

made the splashes in the meme coin and helped

1:25:30

us to, like I said, when they counted us

1:25:32

down, bring us out of the dirt and showed

1:25:34

us no, we're here to stay. And

1:25:36

that's what the Father's here to bring us all all together

1:25:38

with. So yeah, I'm real excited. Thank you, Henok, for being

1:25:40

here. Leah, were you going to say something next? And Mario,

1:25:42

of course. Can I just say something?

1:25:45

Yeah. Yeah,

1:25:47

I just wanted to say that I love what

1:25:49

you guys are doing, Father of Meem. I've been

1:25:51

following you since like, since I think you have

1:25:53

like hardly any followers on Twitter, actually. So I

1:25:55

see what you guys grow. And

1:25:57

I think that your whole narrative narrative

1:26:00

is actually extremely creative. And you know, people

1:26:02

often think that memes are just a joke

1:26:04

and you know, just put a picture of

1:26:06

like a dog or something with a hat

1:26:08

or whatever. But I really like what you

1:26:10

do because what you're doing is kind of

1:26:12

like a tribute to the entire meme narrative,

1:26:15

which, as I said earlier, I think is

1:26:17

actually what's holding up crypto right now and,

1:26:19

and actually allowing a lot of the chains

1:26:21

to survive. You know, you have a whole

1:26:23

dedication to the father of memes, you know,

1:26:25

the person that came up with this entire

1:26:27

narrative. So I think it's really creative. It

1:26:30

has a really nice story. You

1:26:32

have an amazing community. I've saw there's some really cool

1:26:34

people on board. I saw I think Mike Novograt follows

1:26:36

you guys. So I need to look into that. I

1:26:39

find that's right. We're

1:26:41

definitely getting excited. Right.

1:26:44

So now I'm just I'm just excited for the

1:26:46

launch. And yeah, keep killing it. It's really nice

1:26:48

to see. And obviously, your partnership with Brett is

1:26:50

really cool. So yeah, I just feel like you

1:26:52

guys are kind of at the forefront of this

1:26:54

whole new narrative, which is driving crypto right now.

1:26:57

And yeah, I'm really excited to watch how it goes. So best

1:26:59

of luck with the launch. How's

1:27:01

Ben? Yo,

1:27:04

what's up, guys? Can you all hear me? Yeah,

1:27:07

man. All right. As

1:27:09

you guys know, I'm one of the most popular

1:27:11

people in the crypto community, one of

1:27:13

the most knowledgeable people as well. So yeah, I've

1:27:16

been listening for the last 20 minutes. And

1:27:18

I find it a very interesting conversation. But what I

1:27:20

want to say to all those people out there who

1:27:22

think meme coins aren't here to stay

1:27:24

is 1020 years ago, we hardly

1:27:27

use social media. Think about how much life has

1:27:29

changed. Think about how we we now

1:27:31

meet people online. We start dating people online

1:27:33

now. Everything has now become online. Memes have

1:27:35

changed the way we market everything. Right.

1:27:38

Kids nowadays, they don't send each other anything

1:27:40

but memes. Everyone sends each other memes. So

1:27:43

and you got to ask yourself, who are the ones

1:27:45

buying all these crypto coins? It's not. Well,

1:27:48

traditionally, it's not 75 year

1:27:50

old women, not 75 year old men. It's

1:27:53

traditionally young people. And

1:27:55

It's people who would send themes to each

1:27:57

other. So I Think meme coins are far,

1:27:59

far, far more. or attractive than the regular.

1:28:02

Crypto. Is that is Bitcoin or theory

1:28:04

him? And another reason for this is because

1:28:06

young people it is traditionally don't like. Small

1:28:09

return on investment if you say the

1:28:11

Mumbai bitcoin our sixty something thousand dollars

1:28:13

and then he goes up to sixty

1:28:16

six thousand dollars Or sixty eight thousand

1:28:18

dollars is too small of a retired

1:28:20

interests the masses. and if you want

1:28:22

to make crypto very very mainstream, you

1:28:24

need the appeal. Of. Fun!

1:28:26

You needed to be fine. He needed to be a

1:28:28

most know you needed to be. Exciting.

1:28:30

Right is only young people are gonna find the.

1:28:33

Only. The boring nods the older people

1:28:35

are gonna find. The. Small returns

1:28:37

worthwhile. the young people wanna see big returns.

1:28:40

I know so many people through my it's

1:28:42

various networks you are saying well as on

1:28:44

weekends A gets her. Next on is becoming

1:28:46

a five axel mass. That's what people are

1:28:48

interested in. Know was interested in Florida, the

1:28:50

bitcoin lows, gray, I've lots of big. One

1:28:52

of us have a theory and it's too

1:28:55

small to get people excited when you buy

1:28:57

these. Realized. You. Six thousand people

1:28:59

in this space right now is that

1:29:01

people don't biologic. They buy an emotion.

1:29:03

Price. You want to make things emotional for people in

1:29:05

the reason why I love Mean When so much as well.

1:29:08

And I've been talking to various friends of mine and be

1:29:10

getting involved in law mean coins myself. As

1:29:12

that. People. Are buying always shown emotions

1:29:14

have weakened by without emotion or me the

1:29:16

emotional projects and then get our the right

1:29:18

time and then when to sell and will be

1:29:20

kind of things with the make lots and lots

1:29:23

of money to that's what it's about All

1:29:25

of you guys into space right now. He

1:29:27

managed to buy. At. The right sign on

1:29:29

a cell of the right time you make a lot of

1:29:31

money was with Bitcoin. Even if you'd

1:29:33

find that. Well right now it's hard to

1:29:35

make too much money because bitcoin not in

1:29:37

a double any time really.sooners mean quoted can

1:29:39

double in two seconds, A can double overnight.

1:29:42

You can panics overnight. So for me being

1:29:44

hoisted a fucking future and a want to

1:29:46

say also is look at those coins right

1:29:48

Thought point started off as his job and

1:29:50

now it's become a huge You see someone

1:29:53

like Eel must have famous person the war

1:29:55

talking about those coins so it's only a

1:29:57

matter of time before. a lot

1:29:59

of us memes become big. I've seen father of

1:30:01

meme. I actually follow them on Twitter as well.

1:30:04

And I like their project. There's a lot of

1:30:06

other people whose projects I like. I like their

1:30:08

projects a lot. Just the name and what just

1:30:10

the name alone. The reason why I like it

1:30:12

is because we're going to be talking about meme

1:30:14

coins and the father of memes, the father of

1:30:16

you know, it's a very cool name. It sounds

1:30:18

like it's the number one meme point. It sounds

1:30:20

like it's the best right? The father, the head

1:30:23

of the household numero uno. I like that. But

1:30:25

yeah, look at the dogecoin. Sorry. Yeah,

1:30:27

I would go to father because I know

1:30:29

you just dropped out. Father, you're back up.

1:30:31

I know you brought up pin-off. You're working

1:30:34

now, man. Yes, I was wondering whether Hassan is...

1:30:37

We're still following for FOMO? All right, I'm good.

1:30:39

Yeah, man. I think Hassan was just talking about

1:30:41

meme coins in general, kind of talks about... I

1:30:43

wasn't sure how he's affiliated to you guys because

1:30:45

I know you brought him up with Hanok. But

1:30:48

kind of to wrap up

1:30:50

father of meme, you know, you've got

1:30:52

the launch in what? A couple of hours, you say? Got the

1:30:55

launch in a couple of

1:30:57

hours at 3pm Eastern. We

1:31:00

got to get back to work really soon. I'm

1:31:02

lucky I had even time to get on this

1:31:04

space. There's so many moving gears right now. I'm

1:31:06

glad that some of the people who are on

1:31:08

board were able to take time to get on

1:31:10

the space. Let me, Henna, Hassan, Leia, you guys,

1:31:12

Mario, inviting us here. We have so

1:31:15

many more people behind the scenes. I almost

1:31:17

slipped up. I can't say but like, just

1:31:19

keep watching our animations. Stay tuned

1:31:21

for the launch. We're really trying to

1:31:23

break through and achieve that escape

1:31:26

velocity. We love crypto Twitter, but we want to

1:31:28

bring the rest of the world on speed and

1:31:30

see why meme coins matter. So, you know, strap

1:31:32

in and join us for that ride, guys. Yeah,

1:31:34

man. I think you've done well based on the

1:31:36

engagement you guys have, the traction, the people that

1:31:39

follow you. I think Leia just mentioned McNovelgrast among

1:31:41

many others that you guys are either backing you,

1:31:43

invested in you, I don't know, following you for

1:31:45

one reason or another. So congrats

1:31:47

on the success so far. Obviously, the launch is

1:31:50

the next step and you've got that in a couple of hours.

1:31:52

It's a pleasure for us to be part of, I think we're

1:31:54

invested as well, so to be part of that launch. You

1:31:57

should be excited, man. I enjoyed these meme coin discussions,

1:31:59

especially when it's Scott is not here because he's

1:32:01

just not complaining when he's here. I think you

1:32:03

guys are leading this bull market with the meme

1:32:05

coin ecosystem. In my opinion here to stay, not

1:32:07

for the same reasons that Ryan and others usually

1:32:10

give is like hey, people want to make quick money,

1:32:12

etc. I think it's important, but I think meme coins

1:32:14

just have a lot more potential than what we're discussing

1:32:17

now. I think the meme coins that capitalize on that

1:32:19

will be the ones to win long term. But

1:32:21

I think it was a great space, guys. Really appreciate it.

1:32:24

Father or meme, pleasure to have you. For everyone else, thanks

1:32:26

a lot for joining. Appreciate you. We'll see you again on

1:32:28

the next one. Bye everyone. Take

1:32:30

care, boys.