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Price and coverage match limited by state

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law. ISIS

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was largely defeated in Syria years

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ago, but thousands of suspected Islamic

0:43

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0:45

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the remnants of ISIS. I'm Marko Wurman.

0:55

And I'm Carolyn Beeler. So ahead,

0:57

doctors in Kenya are on strike

0:59

and getting blamed. The doctors are

1:01

therefore insensitive to the suffering and

1:03

plight of the vulnerable Kenyans in

1:05

their need of health services. But

1:07

doctors say it's the government that

1:09

deserves the blame. And

1:11

the US's top diplomat is in China

1:13

facing Mission Impossible. I think the reason

1:15

that things are so scratchy

1:17

and turbulent between the Americans and the

1:19

Chinese is that it is now very,

1:21

very clear that they have mutually incompatible

1:25

ambitions. That's all ahead today

1:27

on The World. This

1:32

is The World. I'm Marko Wurman. And I'm

1:35

Carolyn Beeler. Thank you for joining us today.

1:38

The top US diplomat, Antony Blinken,

1:40

is in China for a three-day

1:42

visit aimed at easing tensions between

1:44

the two countries. It marks

1:46

the first trip to the People's Republic by

1:48

US Secretary of State since 2018. In

1:52

recent months, the perennially complex relationship between

1:54

the two countries seemed to be on

1:56

the mend. Still, there are no shortages

1:59

of serious challenges. ahead. The

2:01

United States is angry with the Biden administration over a

2:03

new $8 billion aid package

2:05

for Taiwan. Just ahead, we'll

2:08

hear about serious tensions in the South

2:10

China Sea. But first, Blinken's mission to

2:12

China. I spoke this morning with David

2:14

Rennie, the Beijing bureau chief for The

2:16

Economist, about the most contentious issues getting

2:18

in the way of improving the relationship.

2:21

In recent years, we've seen America much more willing

2:23

to send quite a lot of weaponry to Taiwan.

2:26

There's this idea that America managed to talk about

2:28

making the island of Taiwan into a porcupine, just

2:30

too spiny and difficult to attack.

2:32

But of course, China hates that. And

2:34

then he also mentioned the tensions in

2:36

the South China Sea. And there, there's

2:39

a treaty ally. America has a defense

2:41

treaty with the Philippines. The Chinese are

2:43

bullying the Philippines Navy down there, trying

2:45

to stop them supplying this very remote

2:47

lookout on a disputed reef. And

2:50

what about the other main point? It

2:52

ties with Russia. Yeah, we've seen the

2:54

Americans going public in the last couple

2:56

of weeks with the fact that American

2:58

intelligence is tracking very, very large sales

3:00

of so-called deal-use items. So the

3:02

kind of the microelectronics that Russia desperately

3:05

needs to make ballistic missiles, or the

3:07

engines that Russia needs to make drones

3:09

that are used to attack in Ukraine.

3:11

And so the argument to the Americans

3:13

is that Western sanctions are being holodeced

3:15

by Chinese deal-use components being sold to

3:17

Russia in really huge numbers, which explain

3:19

why Russia's defense industry is up and

3:22

running in a way that sanctions were

3:24

supposed to have choked off. And

3:26

Anthony Blinken is, we're told, going to tell the

3:28

Chinese that if they keep this up, then there

3:30

are some very, very severe sanctions involving things

3:33

like sanctioning Chinese banks and actually cutting

3:35

off their access to the dollar, which

3:37

is basically a death sentence for the

3:39

international operations of any bank. Now, that

3:41

is going to be hanging over the

3:43

talks. So security in the South

3:46

China Sea and support for Russia. I mean,

3:48

these are high level topics to be broaching

3:50

on this trip. What can the secretary actually

3:52

accomplish? We have discovered by

3:54

kind of bitter experience that the only two

3:56

people who can actually say things from a

3:58

downward spiral to one. something very very

4:01

frightening of the two top leaders. Everyone's

4:03

very clear that in this kind of

4:05

very scratchy tense moment where the two

4:07

countries really do not trust each other's

4:10

motives or ambitions, it's really only the

4:12

two top leaders that can get stuffed

4:14

up. And so I think to the

4:16

extent that anti-Blinkin can have any headway

4:18

this week, it's if the Chinese believe

4:20

that he is delivering a message directly

4:22

from Joe Biden about all these really

4:24

important contentious issues. And then you get

4:26

to all the trade stuff, the economic

4:29

parts of the competition, which are equally likely

4:31

to be getting China quite riled up at the

4:33

moment. Yeah, I want to get

4:35

back to a possible meeting between the Secretary and

4:38

Xi Jinping. But I mean, could you imagine China

4:40

backing down on some of these issues? Would it

4:43

stop sending weapons components and dual use products to

4:45

Russia? China doesn't

4:47

particularly care who controls this

4:49

bit of Ukraine or that bit of

4:51

Ukraine, but they do very much care

4:53

that America and the West should not

4:55

inflict a defeat on Vladimir Putin because

4:58

for China, everything is ultimately about China,

5:00

and they would like to see the

5:02

West divided and weakened by failing in

5:04

Ukraine. And so they are willing to

5:06

stand up behind Vladimir Putin. So

5:09

there is a lot of suspense about whether Secretary

5:11

Blinken will meet in a sit down with Chinese

5:13

leader Xi Jinping. Why is that? Like if it

5:15

were to happen, what would it signify? And

5:17

if it doesn't, same question. There is any sense

5:20

that it's going to be a bad meeting.

5:22

There's any sense that Xi Jinping is going to

5:24

kind of hear things he doesn't want to

5:26

hear, then you know, they're going to hold against

5:28

the Americans. The possibility that the meeting will not

5:31

take place is one of China's oldest and favorite

5:33

diplomatic tricks is to make you so

5:37

anxious to have the meeting. What

5:39

you actually get done in the meeting becomes less

5:41

important than it's simply taking place. Interesting.

5:45

You know, in the Cold War era,

5:47

there was an ideological divide between communism

5:49

and democracy. These days, though, David, what

5:51

is the crux of the friction between

5:53

the US and China? I

5:55

think the reason that things are so scratchy

5:57

and turbulent between the Americans and the Chinese

6:00

is that it is not very very clear

6:02

that they have mutually incompatible

6:05

ambitions. China's ambitions

6:07

to essentially push America off the

6:10

center stage of world affairs and

6:12

usher in a very different world

6:14

order in which there is absolutely

6:17

no value assigned to multi-party democracies.

6:19

Western values are stripped out of

6:22

any multilateral institution. China

6:25

is declared to be every bit

6:27

as benevolent and democratic a government

6:29

as America's. That's China's ambition and

6:32

there's no way that President Biden

6:34

can agree to that. And then

6:36

in addition, there's this just gigantic

6:39

economic competition. You remember the talk about a

6:41

China shock back in the 1990s and

6:44

2000s when tons of Chinese goods poured

6:46

out of factories and sort of sat on

6:48

the shelves in Walmart. And what we're now

6:50

facing is what people are talking about China

6:53

shock 2.0 because China is

6:55

now through should be said very hard work

6:57

and investing and also

7:00

enormous subsidies. China has become extraordinarily

7:02

dominant in some very important sectors

7:04

of the high value added manufacturing.

7:07

Yeah, just look at electric cars, right?

7:09

Yeah. And wind turbines, you

7:11

know, in part, they've made a big bet

7:13

on dominating industries that are going to help

7:15

countries turn green. But it's not just that

7:18

it's a whole range of items. They

7:20

are trying to boost their

7:22

growth with a gigantic bet

7:24

on manufacturing. And we are

7:26

seeing state owned banks just

7:28

hosing money at the manufacturing

7:30

sector. New factories spring up

7:33

all over China. There isn't enough

7:35

demand inside China to buy the

7:37

things those factories are making. It

7:39

has to go somewhere else. China

7:41

is trying to rescue its economy

7:43

by exporting just an absolute tidal

7:45

wave of cheap, well-made,

7:48

often high end manufactured goods.

7:50

And every rich world market

7:52

is panicking about the impact

7:54

on their economies and their

7:57

jobs. So really, it's an

7:59

extraordinarily complicated. It's

8:01

hard and it's turbulent and

8:03

Anthony Blinken's meetings in China

8:06

are going to be difficult

8:08

because these are just hard

8:10

clashes of real economic and

8:12

strategic national security interests bumping up

8:14

these two giant countries with very

8:17

different visions of what they are

8:19

entitled to and how the world

8:21

should work. David Reni

8:23

is the Beijing bureau chief for the Economist.

8:25

He spoke with us earlier today from the

8:27

Chinese capital. As Reni said,

8:29

one possible clash between the US and China

8:31

could come in the South China Sea. This

8:34

week in the Philippines, the US

8:36

military is conducting large scale military

8:38

exercises. More than 16,000

8:40

American and Filipino service members

8:42

are participating in the drills

8:44

aimed at defending Philippine territory,

8:47

territory that includes islands near

8:49

China. As the world's

8:51

Asia correspondent Patrick Nguyen reports, that's

8:53

a move some see as wise

8:56

and others see as provocative. Go

8:59

as far north in the Philippines

9:01

as possible and you'll find a

9:03

place the government's tourism bureau calls

9:05

mesmerizing. Every corner stands

9:08

for another's wonder. Our

9:12

own little world will wake them at

9:14

all. That's

9:16

an ad for the Batanes, a

9:18

cluster of tiny islands, all smaller

9:20

than say Manhattan. They are green

9:23

and stunning but also remote so

9:25

they don't actually get many visitors.

9:28

This week is an exception though. US

9:30

and Philippine troops will pour onto one

9:33

of the islands, pretend it's been invaded

9:35

and try to take it back. They'll

9:37

do an air assault and even

9:39

bring in by boat a HIMARS,

9:42

a high mobility artillery rocket system,

9:44

same as the US sends to

9:46

Ukraine. It's a big

9:48

step forward for the US Philippine

9:50

Military Alliance but some think this

9:52

is risky business. Lee

10:00

Ground. France Castro is the

10:02

deputy minority leader of the

10:04

Philippines' House of Representatives. She

10:07

notes that the Batanes are only about

10:09

350 miles southeast of mainland China. Castro

10:14

asks, why is the Philippines

10:16

allowing the US to play

10:18

war games on these unspoiled

10:20

islands, practically taunting China? This

10:23

she says is just the start

10:25

of the US militarizing the Batanes.

10:27

Details are scarce, but the Philippine

10:29

government has confirmed the Pentagon is

10:32

seeking to build a permanent naval

10:34

port there for its Filipino allies.

10:37

This development is very unprecedented.

10:39

If there would be construction

10:41

of US

10:44

military base there, the Philippines

10:46

would be in a dangerous situation. Many,

10:49

including the Philippine president, Ferdinand

10:51

Marcos Jr., believe the Philippines

10:53

is already in danger. China's

10:56

navy is getting bigger and more

10:58

aggressive. In violation of

11:00

international law, China did capture a

11:02

remote island claimed by the Philippines

11:05

12 years ago. Today, Chinese forces

11:07

are still at it, trying

11:09

to control reefs near the Philippines,

11:12

leading to recent clashes at sea.

11:14

They have had well over a

11:16

decade of the Chinese taking their

11:19

territory. Grant Newsom is a former

11:21

US Marine colonel who worked in

11:23

military intelligence. He also wrote the

11:25

book When China Attacks. He

11:28

says it's no wonder the Philippines

11:30

navy wants a steady US presence

11:32

on the Batanes to scare Chinese

11:34

forces away. It certainly does need

11:36

assistance from its friends. Just

11:39

about everybody needs assistance from their

11:41

friends if it's the Chinese military

11:43

that is showing up. The US

11:45

has a treaty obligation to defend

11:47

Philippine soil, including the Batanes.

11:50

Newsom says the Pentagon will likely

11:52

push to build out a port

11:54

that can at least handle US

11:57

naval destroyers, fast and lethal warships.

12:00

He believes the U.S. would

12:02

also want to place missile

12:04

systems there to strike approaching

12:06

Chinese warships or targets farther

12:08

afield. It would give potentially

12:10

the ability to strike at

12:12

China. And it brings, say,

12:14

the Chinese mainland into easier

12:16

range from ground-based missiles, for

12:18

example. One huge reason the

12:20

U.S. is so interested in the Batanes,

12:23

they're only about 100 miles south

12:26

of Taiwan. The democratic

12:28

U.S.-backed island that China claims

12:30

and threatens to seize. Nusham

12:33

says U.S. forces on the Batanes

12:35

could help thwart a Chinese amphibious

12:37

invasion of Taiwan. It's not a

12:39

checkmate, but it does make things

12:41

more difficult if you're going to

12:43

go after Taiwan. Beijing warns

12:46

the Philippines, don't let the U.S.

12:48

exploit you. Militarizing the

12:50

Batanes islands is, quote, playing

12:53

with fire. Representative France

12:55

Castro is no fan of Beijing,

12:57

but does take its threats to

13:00

heart. She says the Philippines is

13:02

getting sucked into an inter-imperialist war

13:05

and doesn't trust the U.S. to

13:07

be honest about its intentions in the

13:09

Batanes. We wouldn't know. We

13:11

wouldn't know what are they doing.

13:13

We even don't know what equipment,

13:16

military materials they are placing there.

13:18

So that is very, very worrisome.

13:21

But she is in the minority. Independent

13:23

polls show eight in ten Filipinos

13:25

favor cooperating with the U.S. military

13:28

to protect their seas. In

13:30

the exercises kicking off this

13:33

week, U.S. and Philippine forces

13:35

will also, for the first

13:37

time, venture west beyond the

13:39

Philippines territory into international waters

13:41

claimed by China. For

13:44

the world, Patrick Nguyen, Bangkok. An

13:47

update now to a story we've been following in the Middle

13:49

East. The Palestinian militant

13:52

group Hamas put out a

13:54

video today showing 23-year-old American-Israeli

13:56

hostage Hirsch Goldberg-Poland speaking to

13:59

the camera. It's not clear when

14:01

it was recorded. In it, Goldberg

14:03

Poland says he's been held captive for nearly 200

14:05

days, suggesting that it

14:07

was filmed quite recently. His parents,

14:09

John Poland and Rachel Goldberg, have been

14:11

outspoken advocates for their son and other

14:14

hostages still held in Gaza. Today

14:16

the couple released their own video

14:18

saying they're relieved to see their

14:20

son Hirsch alive. The

14:35

couple again called on all the parties involved

14:37

in negotiations to reach a deal to free

14:40

the hostages. You can listen

14:42

to my recent conversation with John Poland and

14:44

Rachel Goldberg in Jerusalem. That's

14:46

online at theworld.org. You're

14:49

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That's odoo.com/the world. I'm

15:22

Carolyn Beeler. In Kenya, staff

15:24

at public hospitals have been on strike for

15:26

more than 40 days and

15:29

it's impacting the country's healthcare system.

15:32

Local news media in Kenya are reporting

15:34

that some patients are dying as a

15:36

result of the ongoing strike. Union

15:38

representatives and government officials are blaming

15:40

each other for the impasse. From

15:43

the capital, Nairobi, the World's Africa

15:45

correspondent, Holly Mugakande reports. a

16:00

union of clinical officers, which is one

16:02

of several unions on strike right now

16:04

that includes doctors, dentists and

16:07

clinicians. At the heart

16:09

of their complaints is what they say is

16:11

the government's failure to live up to the

16:13

terms of prior collective bargaining agreements. He

16:16

tells me they have already tried going

16:18

to court over this. So our

16:20

strike, purely, is more of enhancement

16:23

and enforcement, enforcing the

16:25

court order, which is that which are in

16:27

place. Some of the

16:29

issues covered by the agreements are pay

16:31

and staffing in public hospitals. He

16:34

worries says right now, health workers

16:36

are overworked and overwhelmed, and this

16:38

is hurting the quality of health

16:40

care being given to patients and

16:42

public facilities. Another major issue

16:44

in this strike is a new decision by

16:46

the government to cut the salaries

16:48

of medical interns from the equivalent

16:50

of around $1,500 per month to a stipend

16:52

of about $500 a month. It's

16:57

barely livable, says fourth-year medical student,

16:59

Bomsas, and Bilo. Being

17:01

paid less than somebody is watching

17:03

over the gate is kind of a

17:06

humiliation while I'm 24 hours I'm at

17:08

the hospital. On Monday night, government officials

17:10

said they were close to reaching a

17:12

deal with one union to end the

17:14

strike, but it fell through. Government official

17:16

Anway Rimu had strong words

17:18

for medical workers yesterday. The

17:21

doctors are therefore insensitive to

17:23

the suffering and flight of the vulnerable

17:25

canyons in their need of health services.

17:27

She said that they are working to

17:30

address some of the concerns of medical

17:32

workers, including paying off the equivalent of

17:34

millions of dollars in salary arrears at

17:36

public hospitals. But she said they

17:39

need to balance their demands with the fiscal

17:41

reality of the country. Right now,

17:43

Kenya's President William Ruto has

17:45

prioritized making fiscal reforms to

17:48

address Kenya's debt crisis. Our

17:50

friends, the doctors, that

17:52

we mind about them, we

17:55

value their service,

17:57

they give to our nation, but

17:59

we must live with them. But critics

18:01

argue that the government isn't investing enough

18:03

in the health sector. For

18:05

some, these strikes have become the latest class

18:08

issue in Kenya. The

18:12

Gadi Hospital in Nairobi is one of

18:14

the public hospitals impacted by the strike.

18:17

CEO Alex Hirongho tells me how many

18:19

of their patients come from the city's

18:22

largest slum. The people that we serve

18:24

as a public facility are

18:28

the ones on the down of the pyramid

18:31

in the third. He tells me that only

18:33

around 30 percent of medical officers

18:35

are working right now because of the

18:37

strike. As they walk through the hospital,

18:39

I see how some of the wards

18:41

are nearly empty. Hirongho tells

18:43

me only about a third of the

18:45

normal number of patients are coming through

18:48

their doors right now. Where are the

18:50

other people going? Because it doesn't mean

18:52

that they got well off of it.

18:54

So where are they going? It means

18:57

they are not coming to the hospital. The

18:59

strike is putting a huge burden on the

19:01

doctors who are still working, either

19:03

because they are already pensioned or

19:05

work in management or are on

19:08

pre-existing contracts, like Dr. Patrick Umuga,

19:10

an intern. He tells me

19:12

they are currently working 24-hour shifts. Some

19:16

departments where they are consultants are

19:18

not available, so we can't

19:20

attend to all the cases. So most

19:22

of the cases we refer because

19:25

there is no consultant to attend to

19:27

them. Refer to other hospitals,

19:29

including private ones, but not everyone can

19:32

afford to go to them. You really

19:34

feel sad when a patient of come

19:36

who really needs help, but you are

19:39

unable to give the particular help he

19:41

needs. At the same time, he wants

19:43

government officials to come see the state

19:46

of public hospitals for themselves. For

19:48

the world, I'm Halima Gekhandi, Nairobi.

20:00

bacterium called Xylella fastidiosa.

20:03

That bacteria was accidentally imported and

20:05

it provides an example for how

20:07

Europe handles pathogens that sneak a

20:09

ride on imported goods. We

20:12

asked Wotka van der Verve to explain

20:14

more. He's an agricultural ecologist at Wagoningen

20:16

University in the Netherlands. The

20:18

plant responds by making gum. It doesn't

20:20

like those bacteria there. It's not used

20:23

to those bacteria. It's not pre-adapted. It

20:25

makes the gum and then there's no water

20:27

transport anymore and then the tree dies because

20:29

of lack of water. This

20:32

disease is bacterium xylella. It's not found

20:34

on the European continent. How did it

20:36

reach Italy? I believe that it

20:38

probably got there through ornamental plants,

20:41

coffee plants that were brought in

20:43

because they look nice. Then somehow

20:45

this bacterium was transported from such

20:47

plants to other holes. Xylella has

20:50

a lot of host plants. Those

20:53

ornamental coffee trees that you believe might have carried

20:55

this bacterium, where did they come from? I

20:57

think they originally came from somewhere

21:00

in middle America. It came

21:02

through the Netherlands because we are a

21:04

big hub in import and export of

21:06

plant material. Do we know how

21:08

it then gets to the olive trees? This

21:11

bacterium is factored. It needs little insects,

21:13

sharp shooters to be transported. They feed

21:16

on the xylella. They take up the

21:18

bacterium. They can go to a new

21:20

plant and transmit it. It's transported from

21:22

one plant to another. Eventually it gets

21:24

into an olive tree. It's

21:27

an unlikely thing to happen. If

21:29

you try it over and over again, like

21:31

with car accidents, I've not had a car

21:33

accident my whole life because the chance is

21:36

small. If you have a whole population of

21:38

people driving cars, car accidents happen every day.

21:40

It's a certainty that it happened. How

21:42

often does this happen in Europe that

21:44

a foreign pathogen enters and devastates plants

21:46

and crops? Is there any way to

21:48

prevent it? This kind of thing happens

21:50

at the regular basis. It's usually

21:52

not as bad as with xylella. Xylella

21:54

is the worst case that we've had

21:57

in many years. But there

21:59

are many cases also. foreign pathogens and

22:01

pests that come in that cause

22:03

an outbreak and then the National

22:05

Plant Protection Agencies get in to

22:07

limit the spread and it's possible

22:09

eradicated. So they're really trying very

22:11

hard and oftentimes successful but not

22:13

always successful and sometimes they're really

22:16

too late. So the job falls

22:18

to National Plant Protection Agencies? They

22:20

do the work but because the

22:22

Europe is, we have the European

22:24

Union so there is coordination between

22:26

what member states should do because

22:28

within Europe there's free trade. So

22:30

within Europe there's no barrier so plant

22:32

material can be moved freely through vegetables

22:34

everything. So what enters into Italy can

22:36

become a problem in the Netherlands and

22:39

what enters in the Netherlands can go

22:41

to any place in Europe. I mean

22:43

what kind of controls are there for

22:45

agricultural products to enter Europe? There is

22:47

import inspection so product that comes in

22:49

is inspected by inspectors, open boxes, take

22:52

samples, if they find something that they

22:54

don't think is right they send it

22:56

to a laboratory to see what it

22:58

is. These people have

23:00

a lot of work to do. Yeah but

23:03

as we see with Xylalis some bacterium slipped

23:05

through right? Definitely and I think it slipped

23:07

through because Xylala at the time that it

23:09

did slip through was as far as I'm

23:11

aware not on the radar so it was

23:14

not specifically checked. Are the kind of outbreaks

23:16

that have devastated Italy's olive trees occurring

23:18

more frequently? I think they're

23:20

more frequent and I think it's

23:22

a combination of increasing trade and

23:25

transport and people moving from one

23:27

place to another and we

23:29

also see that with climate change

23:31

territories that were previously too cool

23:33

for certain organisms to establish have

23:35

now become warmer. So certain pests

23:37

and pathogens that were not a

23:39

risk say 30 years ago are

23:41

the risk now because it's simply

23:43

warmer. Vopko van der

23:46

Verve at Wageningen University in the Netherlands there.

23:48

You're with the world. Students

23:54

in Argentina are protesting budget

23:56

cuts to education. Don't steal

23:58

the next generation's future. future,

24:00

they say. Not everyone sees it that

24:02

way. The government has

24:04

run out of external financing, and

24:06

there is a need to cut

24:09

the budget deficit and that includes

24:11

education. Plus getting new citizens to

24:13

vote in Arizona. Those stories and more,

24:15

still ahead on The World. This

24:18

is The World. I'm Mark O'Worman. And

24:21

I'm Carolyn Beeler. The group that

24:23

calls itself the Islamic State no

24:25

longer holds any significant territory in

24:27

the Middle East, but it is

24:29

still capable of carrying out large-scale

24:31

operations. ISIS claimed responsibility for

24:33

the attack in a Moscow theater last

24:35

month that killed about 130 people. One

24:40

strategy to try to contain ISIS has

24:42

been to hold thousands of people in

24:44

detention camps in northeastern Syria. Authorities

24:47

allege that the detainees are tied to

24:49

the extremist group. The world's Sharon

24:51

Jafari recently visited some of these

24:54

camps to speak with detainees. Over

24:56

the next three days, she's going to bring

24:59

us some of their stories and the debates

25:01

surrounding their fate. Sharon,

25:03

ISIS, as I said, doesn't hold much

25:05

territory anymore, but it is still active.

25:07

What kind of capabilities does it have?

25:10

Yeah, you know, Carolyn, for a lot of people,

25:12

ISIS is the story of the past. It's not

25:14

making headlines anymore like it did between 2014 and

25:16

2019, so it must be over. But the reality

25:22

is that today ISIS has branches

25:24

in different parts of the world.

25:26

The attack in Russia, for example,

25:28

which you mentioned, was carried out

25:30

by an ISIS affiliate in Afghanistan

25:32

called ISIS-K. So even though the

25:34

U.S.-led coalition defeated ISIS in Syria

25:36

and Iraq between 2017 and

25:38

2019, the group continues to be

25:41

active and to carry out attacks. And

25:44

just a quick background here. ISIS

25:46

members follow Jihadi Salafist ideology, which

25:48

is a Sunni fundamentalist movement. ISIS

25:51

fighters captured territory in Iraq and

25:53

Syria, and they established what they

25:56

called a caliphate, which is an

25:58

Islamic society run by ISIS. Sharia

26:00

law. All right. So in

26:02

Syria specifically these days, what kind of

26:04

reach does the group have based on

26:06

your reporting there on the ground? There

26:08

are these groups called sleeper cells, which

26:10

continue to carry out attacks on local

26:13

residents. For example, when I

26:15

was in Syria last month, ISIS

26:17

killed a group of farmers just

26:19

outside of Raqqa, which is a

26:21

city in northern Syria where I

26:23

was staying. But besides

26:25

these sleeper cells, there are roughly 60,000

26:28

people with suspected ISIS

26:31

ties held in about two

26:33

dozen detention camps and rehabilitation

26:36

facilities across northeastern Syria. Most

26:39

of them are Syrians and Iraqis,

26:41

but a portion of them are

26:43

foreigners who came to Syria from

26:45

Europe and elsewhere. These are

26:47

people who are believed to have some sort of connection

26:49

to ISIS. And it's

26:51

a wide variety of people. You have

26:53

those who actually supported and fought for

26:55

ISIS and others who just

26:58

happened to live under ISIS or

27:00

they were born there. And

27:02

as the world moved on from defeating

27:04

ISIS in Syria, these people were sort

27:07

of forgotten. And we

27:09

as Americans should care, not

27:11

just because it's a humanitarian issue, but

27:14

also because our government funds and

27:16

supports these camps and detention centers.

27:20

So 60,000 people in these detention centers. That's

27:22

a lot of people. Who

27:24

is running these camps? So the

27:26

Kurdish administration that controls northeastern Syria

27:29

oversees these camps. But

27:31

according to a report by Amnesty International

27:33

that was released just last week, the

27:35

US is involved in most aspects

27:38

of the detention system. It funds

27:40

everything from building these facilities to

27:42

repairing them and training security guards

27:45

for them. Some of

27:47

the detainees told Amnesty International that

27:49

they were tortured and mistreated. I

27:52

asked the State Department about this and they said

27:54

that they are concerned about these reports of

27:57

human rights abuses and that they

27:59

urge countries to take back their

28:01

citizens. I gather

28:03

that the people in these camps are

28:05

often described as ISIS suspects. What

28:08

is the legal status of those detainees? The

28:10

majority of them haven't been charged

28:13

or convicted, partly because it's

28:15

so hard to establish that someone

28:17

was an ISIS member, unless there is

28:19

some sort of evidence like videos of

28:22

them participating in ISIS propaganda or fighting

28:24

for the group. And

28:26

as a result, many have been living in

28:29

these camps for almost a decade. Some

28:31

countries have repatriated. Their citizens, Iraq, for

28:33

example, have taken some people back, so

28:36

have a few other countries, including the

28:38

U.S. But there are

28:40

thousands of people, again, mostly women

28:42

and children, whose future remain unclear.

28:45

This is how Fanaasi Kombanis described it to

28:47

me. He's the director of Century International, which

28:50

is a progressive think tank based in New

28:52

York. It's like a Guantanamo on an

28:54

epic scale, to have this many people who are

28:56

basically told that the plan is

28:59

forever for them and their kids to

29:01

live without any legal status, and they've

29:03

neither been convicted of any crimes nor,

29:05

in many cases, are they even

29:07

allowed to get passports to the

29:10

countries they're from. He

29:12

compares these camps to Guantanamo, but of course

29:14

the difference here is that in the case

29:16

of Syria, there are thousands of women and

29:18

children who are locked up. For

29:21

this series, we're going to start at the

29:23

biggest camp called Al-Haul, and we're going

29:25

to hear how residents are coping with conditions

29:27

there. About

29:30

10 miles west of the Iraqi

29:32

border sits this sprawling camp called

29:35

Al-Haul, named after a nearby town.

29:39

After passing miles of empty green

29:41

plains, a few checkpoints guarded by

29:43

armed men, suddenly you come

29:45

face to face with a metropolis. This

29:48

is my interpreter,

29:51

Muhammad Safran. rose

30:00

upon rows of white tents, some

30:02

bearing the logos of the United

30:04

Nations Refugee Agency. Barbed

30:06

wire and watchtowers separate the camp

30:08

from the outside world. Men

30:11

in military uniforms guard the entrance,

30:14

their faces covered with balaklavas, their

30:16

guns slung on their shoulders. A

30:19

badge on their uniforms read, ISIS

30:21

hunters. They ask for our papers.

30:24

A few minutes later, we

30:26

are waved through. We're assigned

30:29

two armed guards. Journalists can't

30:31

walk around here without the

30:33

kitchen. Violence

30:36

is part of daily life, one camp

30:38

official tells me. Sometimes residents with

30:41

more radical views and stronger support

30:43

for ISIS want to

30:45

impose their ideology on others, she says.

30:48

And then there's the issue of

30:50

crime and personal disputes. In

30:52

2021, the charity says the children describe

30:54

this place as one of the most

30:56

dangerous in the world. Security

30:59

has improved somewhat since then,

31:01

camp officials. On the surface,

31:05

life goes on. There's

31:08

a market where you can find everything

31:10

from fresh herbs to hair dye and

31:12

nail quippers. Women wearing

31:14

black from head to toe inspect the products.

31:17

Their faces are covered, but some have

31:20

a look of exhaustion in their eyes. About

31:22

half of the 40,000 people who

31:24

live here are children, according to

31:27

the United Nations. One

31:29

woman holding a baby girl approaches and

31:31

tells me her daughter has been sick

31:33

for days. An older man

31:35

complains about the lack of health care at

31:37

the camp. These

31:41

are not comfortable living conditions by any

31:43

means. In the summer, temperatures

31:45

rise to more than 100 degrees, and

31:48

the tents have no cooling system. Since

31:52

this part of Israel's war in Gaza,

31:55

official groups in Iraq have targeted American

31:57

forces based in Syria. They oppose the

32:00

the U.S. support for Israel. These

32:03

attacks have once again raised questions about

32:05

whether the U.S. should remain in Syria.

32:08

Ginnal Hana is with the administration in

32:10

charge of our whole camp. She says

32:13

a U.S. departure would cause a lot

32:15

of problems. ISIS

32:17

is not gone, she

32:19

tells me. They are

32:21

still active in the

32:23

camps and outside. We,

32:29

the Kurds, are guarding our enemy, she

32:31

says. Right now, if you ask a

32:33

small kid here who is your enemy, he

32:35

will say the Kurds. She

32:37

goes on to say that the Kurds have

32:40

fought shoulder to shoulder with the Americans against

32:42

ISIS, and that protecting these camps is the

32:44

human and ethical thing to do.

32:49

We leave Ginnal Hana at a hall

32:51

to visit a resident at the second

32:54

largest camp in northeastern Syria. Rod

32:57

holds about 3,000 foreign

32:59

families of ISIS. 65 percent of

33:01

them are children, according to the

33:04

United Nations. There are women

33:06

and children here from South Africa, the

33:08

U.S. and the U.K., as well as

33:10

others. Wajda lived in

33:12

Al-Haul for three years before

33:14

being transferred to Rod's camp about a

33:17

year ago. I have

33:19

never ever seen anything to

33:21

her, and if it is anywhere.

33:24

Wajda didn't want me to use her

33:26

full name in this story or provide

33:29

specific details of her past because she

33:31

says she has pending legal cases. She

33:33

says she was born and raised in the

33:35

U.K. and then moved to the city of

33:37

Baku in Syria. We speak inside

33:40

her tent as the rain pounce on.

33:43

Her tent is dark and damp.

33:45

On one side, there's all kitchen

33:47

equipment from her. I

34:00

had my heart. There

34:03

was an explosion near where she was, she

34:05

said. A shrapnel cut through her back. Within

34:08

a coma, I could

34:10

talk normal. I could

34:12

walk normal. After

34:14

three weeks in a coma, watched

34:16

her woke up to learn that

34:18

she was partially paralyzed. She couldn't

34:20

remember some names, she said. Her

34:22

speech was blurred. To

34:24

this day, she said, she suffers

34:27

from pain. She apologizes frequently for

34:29

talking slowly. As we

34:31

speak, her seven-year-old son slips open the

34:33

entrance to the tent. Can I have your

34:35

cup? Hold on one second, let me get it for you. My

34:38

rain in cup. Here's your rain

34:40

in cup. Her son, she

34:43

asked that I not name, was born on

34:45

the Isis. She says he's

34:47

only known a life of fear,

34:49

displacement and stigma. She doesn't let

34:51

him play outside much. It's too

34:53

dangerous, she said. I really want

34:56

to be here, because

34:58

I have a school of

35:01

friends with me, so I

35:04

got the best present. Do

35:06

you have hope of ever leaving

35:08

here? Yes.

35:14

I have to

35:16

have hope, because

35:18

if I don't have hope, I

35:21

will be depressed. Several

35:24

countries have taken back their citizens,

35:26

including the US, but many still

35:28

remain here in limbo. No

35:30

one wants to take these people back. That's

35:32

the Nazi combined is again, the

35:34

Middle East expert at Century International.

35:37

And we end up with this

35:39

very jury-rigged

35:41

arrangement where the

35:43

US working with Syrian Kurds

35:46

has set up a statelet

35:48

whose main strategic benefit to

35:50

the US and to many

35:52

others is that it acts as

35:54

an indefinite holding pen for all these ISIS people.

36:00

genuinely committed ISIS members. They believe

36:02

in the ideology, and some of

36:04

them even look forward to having

36:06

another chance to establish a caliphate.

36:09

But this is how society works. We don't

36:11

get to just part in

36:13

a twilight zone, 50

36:16

or 65,000 people who have beliefs that we

36:18

don't like. Countries should set up a

36:21

process, he says, to identify criminals

36:23

among the camp population, to charge

36:25

and prosecute them in court. Our

36:30

pride was just hint, the rain hasn't

36:32

stopped the kids from playing as we

36:35

get ready to leave. They'll suddenly spot

36:37

a plane flying above, like the un-American

36:39

one, given the proximity of the camp

36:41

to American bases. It's the young lady!

36:45

It's the young lady! They wave, and

36:47

one of them yells that maybe the plane

36:50

will swoop down and rescue his friend from

36:52

the camp. They all

36:54

laugh, and the iron gates close

36:56

behind us. For

37:00

the war, Sharon Jafari, northeastern Syria.

37:04

Tomorrow on the show, we hear from a

37:06

young man who says his stepfather took him

37:08

to live under ISIS in Syria. When

37:10

I was back home, I didn't know there was

37:12

a country called Syria, you know? I

37:15

didn't know anything about what was going on.

37:18

The story of Sulaesu tomorrow on

37:20

the world. Currently

37:22

in the U.S., naturalized citizens make up

37:24

10% of the electorate. In fact, wanting

37:26

to vote is what motivates a lot

37:28

of people to get citizenship. In

37:31

swing states like Arizona, that group could

37:33

have a significant impact on how this

37:35

year's election turns out. KJZZ's

37:37

Elisa Resnick met some of the

37:39

state's newest eligible voters, preparing to

37:41

cast their first ever ballots. When

37:44

Tucson resident Ricardo Morales set out to

37:46

get his U.S. citizenship last year, he

37:49

had one big reason in mind. The

37:51

election, because I know that the elections were coming,

37:53

so that was one of my main goals. He's

37:56

a community organizer with the advocacy group that Backcountryae channel has

37:59

called the Cal Fab. Today, that message

38:01

is the same one he gives to others looking

38:03

into the process. Just do it.

38:05

I mean, if you can apply for citizenship,

38:07

do it, register to

38:09

vote, and participate. I mean, this is

38:12

part of the civic education that all

38:14

the immigrants we should have. He

38:17

says people want to get their citizenship for a lot

38:19

of different reasons. But more and more,

38:21

he's hearing from immigrants like him who want to do

38:23

it so they can vote. People are

38:26

telling me, oh, I want to be able to

38:28

vote. I want to register. I

38:30

want to make myself heard.

38:34

That's exactly what Morales and others set out to

38:36

help people do last month in Nogales. A

38:40

few dozen participants filed into a community

38:42

center to hear from immigration experts and

38:44

advocacy groups about everything from the cost

38:46

of applying to language requirements to take

38:48

the test. It was the

38:50

first-ever citizenship resource fair in Nogales put

38:53

on by Chicanos Por la Casa, and

38:55

it went over the barriers and benefits

38:57

of becoming naturalized. Nogales

38:59

resident Isidra Aguirre says she came to get

39:01

some of those questions answered. She's

39:03

been in town for over a decade, and she

39:05

says getting her citizenship would be a chance to

39:07

finally have a voice in what happens where she

39:09

lives. Because

39:15

right now, we can't decide, she says.

39:17

We can't vote. She says she

39:19

wants to become a citizen for a lot of reasons. But

39:22

above all, it's to vote and get a

39:24

chance to decide on who's in the government. According

39:27

to the American Immigration Council's report this year,

39:29

some 164,000 immigrants are

39:32

eligible for naturalization in Arizona alone.

39:35

Report co-author Steve Hubbard notes that President

39:37

Biden won Arizona in 2020 with far

39:40

fewer votes. The margin of victory in Arizona

39:42

was 10,000, almost 11,000. Plus,

39:46

he says getting citizenship is a

39:48

long and rigorous process. That

39:50

means those that complete it are likely to exercise

39:52

their new rights and make an impact at the

39:54

polls. So it is a population that I

39:57

think politicians, wherever you are,

39:59

should be thinking about. about because

40:01

they are probably very much a likely

40:03

voter. That message was a

40:05

central theme at a special naturalization ceremony

40:07

held at a Tucson Elementary School in

40:09

March. I'd like to recognize the

40:13

countries of origin that our

40:15

new citizens represent. The

40:17

presiding judge recognized 23 new U.S. citizens

40:20

from more than a dozen countries. They

40:27

were included with a folkloric performance and speeches

40:29

from local leaders, including Tucson Mayor,

40:32

Reyno Romero. Our

40:34

democracy may be a message, but

40:36

it is a resilience. And so

40:39

do we protect our job, your job,

40:42

to make you better, to protect our

40:44

generation. And that

40:46

is the essence of

40:48

what we need as citizens in Colorado.

40:51

And just outside the ceremony, representatives from

40:54

the Pima County Recorder's office were waiting

40:56

to help register new citizens as voters,

40:58

like Alavira Doherty. I

41:01

am from here in Tucson, actually. I live

41:03

here in Tucson. And my kids all came

41:05

here to school. But

41:07

I am from Tonga Island. So

41:10

today, I become the American

41:12

citizen. Doherty's been in Tucson for

41:14

more than 30 years with a green card.

41:17

She says getting her citizenship makes her

41:19

feel like a whole new person with

41:21

new opportunities. And as far

41:23

as voting in November... Definitely, definitely.

41:26

Because, really, I do believe, you

41:29

know, not just for me, my family,

41:31

but my whole community. For

41:33

The World, I'm Alisa Resnick in

41:36

Tucson, Arizona. This

41:44

is The World. I'm Carolyn Beeler.

41:47

In Argentina's capital, Buenos Aires, people

41:49

flooded into the streets on Tuesday.

41:55

Demonstrators Terry Banner are saying,

41:57

don't steal the next generation's future.

42:00

That's because Argentina's new president, Javier

42:02

Malle, has imposed an austerity budget

42:04

that has, among other things, left

42:07

the country's free public universities without

42:09

enough money to run. Martin

42:11

Castigliano has been following this story. He's

42:13

the head of Latin American research at

42:15

the Institute of International Finance in Washington.

42:18

Martin, let's start with the cuts

42:20

for universities that inspired these recent

42:22

protests. What is the president's

42:24

rationale for freezing the education budget right now

42:27

during a time of inflation? Yes,

42:29

so it's not just the education

42:32

budget. It's just a significant fiscal

42:34

adjustment that is underway because the

42:37

country was in a, and it's

42:39

still in a very critical situation.

42:41

Macroeconomic conditions are very tough. The

42:44

government has run out of external financing

42:47

and there is a need to cut

42:49

the budget deficit, the fiscal deficit. And

42:51

that includes improving

42:53

revenues and also cutting fiscal

42:55

spending, and that includes education.

42:58

So trade unions have also joined in

43:00

on these protests. As you said, it's

43:03

not just education that's getting cut, but

43:05

Malle seems to be ignoring this pushback.

43:07

He told the press yesterday that this

43:09

is the first quarter with a financial

43:12

surplus since What

43:14

is the importance of that? What point is he trying

43:16

to make there? Well, he's trying to

43:18

make the point that he needs to

43:20

stabilize the economy first, and that includes

43:22

reducing external financing needs. So fiscal adjustment

43:24

is the core of his program. The

43:27

goal is reducing inflation. Inflation is running

43:29

at still very high levels, even though

43:32

it has declined in recent months. And

43:35

then activity is also declining as a

43:37

result of the lack of financing. So

43:40

the main goal is to stabilize the

43:42

macroeconomic conditions. At the same time, he's

43:44

also pushing for more

43:46

sort of microeconomic reforms that

43:48

includes reducing the size of the

43:51

state, eliminating regulations, and

43:53

providing more scope for

43:55

the private sector to operate. And

43:57

that includes also cutting spending. in

44:01

several areas, including education.

44:03

I think Millet now needs to score

44:06

some sort of political victory in the

44:08

coming months because public support has been

44:10

strong so far, but as

44:12

we have seen this week, it has

44:15

started to erode. So he needs to

44:17

score a political victory in the coming

44:19

months. Otherwise, we could see

44:21

more social unrest. And

44:24

what is the inflation rate in Argentina? Well,

44:26

inflation rates, it's running at around 10%

44:29

month over month. And what about annually?

44:33

It's much higher, right? Yeah, yeah.

44:35

So looking at annual numbers, we

44:37

have a forecast, for instance, 170%

44:40

end of the year inflation. And

44:42

so far, it's running at 280. Wow.

44:47

And how does Argentina compare economically

44:49

with its neighbors? Are these problems

44:52

being experienced across the region? When

44:54

you look at macroeconomic policies, the region

44:56

is already at a different stage. Inflation

44:59

is well below 5% in most

45:02

countries. Countries have independent central banks

45:04

with inflation targeting regimes that are

45:06

highly credible. Fiscal

45:08

positions are, even though we have

45:11

seen imbalances in other countries, Brazil,

45:13

Colombia, and others, there

45:16

is a fiscal framework in place.

45:18

So macroeconomic stability is not at

45:20

risk in those countries. In

45:22

Argentina, there is a long way

45:24

in order to get there. And

45:27

then these discussions about education and

45:29

some of the social needs, microeconomic

45:31

reforms, they have always been in

45:34

place. Education, it's a very sensitive

45:36

issue, I would say, in public

45:38

education, in particular. In Latin America, we

45:41

have seen protests in the past in

45:43

Chile and in other

45:45

countries as well related to that. So

45:47

I think it's a very sensitive issue. And

45:50

when you put that together with

45:52

a program that requires significant fiscal

45:54

adjustment, other corrective measures, just in

45:57

order to reduce inflation and stuff.

45:59

that will last the economy, that's

46:01

not a good combination. When

46:04

he was inaugurated, didn't Malay tell

46:06

people that these economic reforms would

46:08

be painful? Is he just, you

46:10

know, falling through on his

46:12

promises and what he thinks is the right course? Yes,

46:15

yes. And public support, even though

46:17

the corrective measures from the very

46:19

beginning of his administration, public support

46:21

for the government has so far

46:24

remained strong that has allowed Malay

46:26

to maintain a very confrontational stance

46:28

confronting with the opposition, even its

46:30

closest political allies. And

46:32

he has been very, very proactive in

46:35

terms of putting together stabilization measures. The

46:37

key thing to watch is to see rapid

46:40

disinflation in the coming months. So

46:42

lower inflation should help ease pressure

46:44

on real wages, so improve purchasing

46:46

power, also on the exchange rate,

46:48

and that will help the government

46:51

accumulate more and more dollars. So

46:53

that's very important to see rapid

46:56

disinflation, that there is some light

46:58

at the end of the tunnel in order

47:00

to maintain popular support, and

47:02

discussing the education budget

47:05

at this point, given all

47:07

the needs in terms of

47:09

macroeconomic stabilization, do not

47:11

help, in my view, at this stage. Martin

47:14

Castellano is head of Latin American

47:16

research at the Institute of International

47:18

Finance in Washington. He was

47:21

updating us on austerity measures in

47:23

Argentina that have drawn some protesters

47:25

into the streets over cuts to

47:27

education. It

47:32

is one of those stories you might not believe

47:35

if you didn't see the video. At

47:37

least four people have been injured

47:39

and taken to hospital after escaped

47:41

military horses bolted through central London

47:43

during the morning brush hour. That's

47:46

right. Five horses from a British military

47:48

unit were apparently spooked by construction noise

47:50

in London and took off at a

47:52

gallop. It happened during a

47:54

rehearsal at Buckingham Palace for the King's

47:56

birthday parade, which is scheduled for June.

48:00

crashed into a bus, another into a

48:02

taxi. A witness who gave his

48:04

name as Sean and said he drives a taxi

48:06

called into the BBC to give

48:08

his account from the scene. Three horses went

48:10

past me at full gallop without

48:12

riders, which obviously was quite extraordinary. So

48:14

nudged out a little bit more to check it was

48:16

safe to pull out. Then another

48:19

horse came around the corner with a

48:21

rider on it and just missed my

48:23

cab. Sean went on to say he

48:25

saw two cavalry riders on the ground,

48:27

a smashed van with blood on its

48:29

side and a black BMW with its

48:31

window and rear end destroyed. By the

48:33

time he did the radio interview, Sean

48:35

said the cabby network already knew the

48:37

horses had been caught. Cavalry

48:39

horses, as they're called, often take

48:41

a prominent role in ceremonies with

48:43

the British royals. They're not

48:45

supposed to be spooked by anything. They're

48:48

trained for months on the city streets,

48:50

so they get used to heavy traffic

48:52

and loud noises, including gun salutes and

48:54

military bands, and you would

48:56

presume construction noises. An army

48:59

spokesman says all the horses were returned

49:01

to their barracks and are undergoing veterinary

49:03

care. Three soldiers went to the hospital

49:05

with injuries that are not life-threatening. A

49:08

fourth person was injured, a member of the

49:10

public, who happened to be cycling when the

49:12

animals got loose. The world

49:14

is a co-production of GBH and PRX,

49:16

broadcasting weekdays from the NAN and Bill

49:19

Harris Studio and from the

49:21

Department of Communication at UC San Diego. Find

49:24

us online anytime at theworld.org. I'm

49:26

Carolyn Beeler. And I'm Marko Werman.

49:29

You be safe, stay strong. We'll see you right

49:31

back here tomorrow. From

49:34

PRX.