0:03

Zane Lowe, Apple Music. What's

0:06

good? This is the Zane Lowe interview series. I'm Eddie

0:08

Francis. Zane will be back next week,

0:11

but in the meantime, wanted to bring you his conversation

0:13

with Fall Out Boy. Their eighth album,

0:16

So Much for Stardust, came out in March and

0:18

Zane sat down with Patrick Stump and Pete

0:20

Wentz to talk about the project. Enjoy

0:22

this conversation and take a listen to the album

0:25

for the full experience.

0:27

Is there a future for Fall Out Boy at any given time,

0:29

even when we don't see you around? We hope

0:31

so. We assume you love each other and

0:34

there's endless creative opportunities, but does

0:37

the future lead to a place like this? I

0:39

would never assume that.

0:41

Not because I don't think you're good enough or

0:43

that you don't want it,

0:45

but man, life is funny, you know? Sometimes

0:47

we just lose the edge or sometimes we get confused or life takes

0:50

over and we mature and we've

0:52

seen it. What I'm not used to is a band like you

0:54

being around for as long as you have making the album. This

0:57

sounds like

0:57

your first best album ever. Dang, man. Thank

1:00

you. Do you know what I mean? Sounds like

1:02

the first time you got it right.

1:04

Thanks. That's awesome. It's

1:06

crazy. I was watching, before we started working on

1:08

the record, I was watching some kind of monster

1:11

and it's some- You're welcome, by the way.

1:13

Did you like my cameo in it? Yeah, you were great in it. Me

1:15

with hair, right? Me with hair. I

1:17

had hair. That's when we met you, you

1:20

had that hair. Somehow in my head,

1:22

I always thought that they were like a band for like 30

1:24

or 40 years. I don't

1:27

really know why, but I was like, oh, we've been a band the same

1:29

length that they were a band when they shot

1:31

this, which is just a really weird

1:34

mirror to look into. Think

1:37

about the ... Because what you were saying, the thing

1:39

about do they get along? There's

1:43

so many things that have to line

1:45

up for a band to make a

1:47

record at this point, let alone a good one.

1:50

You have every reason not to, really.

1:53

You kind of expect it. I told

1:55

my parents 20 years ago, 22

1:58

years ago, that I was going to take a- semester

2:00

off and see what the band thing did,

2:03

and that was it. And so it's

2:06

kind of crazy to still...

2:08

I'm pitching a reality show where he goes back to school.

2:11

It's going to be great. Immediately after this. So the

2:13

semester is over. It's

2:17

a great idea, actually. I'm trying to poke holes in

2:19

it. It's pretty failsafe. What

2:22

college were you at? I wasn't. This

2:25

was, my mom was basically

2:27

like, I'm not subsidized.

2:30

You gotta get a job or do something. I'm not gonna...

2:32

Great personal advice. She's like, so

2:35

go to college. I'll help

2:37

with that, but if you're not going to

2:38

college, you're on your own. You're on your

2:40

own. I graduated high school and we did our first tour like two

2:42

weeks later. Was our... It

2:44

was a great tour. It was a illustrious,

2:47

It was a legendary tour. So it was

2:49

a terrible tour. Nobody showed up. But

2:51

you knew. You knew. We had big

2:54

ambitions, way, way larger

2:56

than we should have had. Based on what?

2:59

Man, there was definitely... Chicago

3:02

is not like, you know, waking up in the winter and it's like,

3:04

go for it. Yeah.

3:07

Where's it coming from? You dig out your car.

3:10

I always knew that like, when Patrick

3:13

sang the first time, I was like, this is very special.

3:15

And I was like, if we can craft something around

3:17

this, it will be very special. And

3:20

to me, I would liken it to watching, and

3:22

I can say this because I'm not Patrick, obviously, but like you're

3:24

watching kind of like a great,

3:27

basketball player in high school or something.

3:30

Like, you know, it's there. You just got to kind of build it around

3:32

them. You know what I mean? Did you know at the time that you were

3:34

going to be so instrumental in helping to unlock that

3:36

with the words? No. No,

3:38

because we weren't, we didn't even do that at first.

3:41

I was trying to, I wanted to write songs. That was

3:43

the whole thing. I didn't know anything about

3:45

singing. I didn't care about singing. It was just one of those things where

3:47

it was a means to an end. I was showing

3:49

them my songs and they're like, Oh, well, do you

3:51

want to sing? I'm like, yeah, but what do you think of the song?

3:53

You know, that was the thing. And so, I didn't really

3:56

even care about my lyrics

3:57

and that was, I think obvious. And

4:00

Pete was like, maybe

4:03

I should do this part. It's so interesting. It's

4:05

so interesting. And also,

4:07

we are going to talk about Annie and Joe, because

4:09

they're playing on this album. It's just out

4:12

of their skin.

4:14

But the dynamic between the two of you has

4:16

been, we've experienced it before. We've

4:19

experienced it before. Great writers and great singers come

4:21

together. Obviously, most famously and notably,

4:23

Elton and Bernie. And this idea of having

4:26

separation

4:27

to be able to collect your thoughts, having

4:29

separation to absorb those

4:31

thoughts, and then bring emotional performance

4:34

and resonance to it, it's

4:36

rare. But when you

4:38

get it right,

4:39

something f***ing magic

4:42

about that separation. It's

4:44

really blind luck

4:45

to find that person, to

4:48

find somebody that you write with like that. And

4:50

when you do, it's

4:53

amazing, because there's a, because like I said, the

4:55

whole point for me was I wanted to write songs. I

4:58

like composing. I like composing music.

5:01

I'm not one of those people that keeps a journal and

5:03

has all of these deep thoughts that

5:05

I want to share with the world. I have

5:07

to make music. And

5:11

there's something about when Pete sends me words,

5:13

it's like Christmas morning, and

5:15

I open them up. And it's like, I don't

5:17

even write. I'm just reading them, and it

5:20

writes itself. I did the same thing when

5:22

I got the lyrics sent through. At the same time

5:24

as the music, I read the

5:27

first two songs before I even listened to the music.

5:29

I don't think I've ever done that. Oh, wow,

5:31

that's cool. And so I read the words

5:33

to love from the other side before I played it. And

5:35

I almost texted you. In fact, I think I saved

5:38

the text I didn't send, because I wanted to show that I almost

5:40

texted you. Just saying, dude, I mean, I haven't

5:42

even heard this music yet. And I just want to say

5:45

lyrically,

5:45

you've just outdone yourself in

5:48

terms of what you captured. And then I press play.

5:51

And I was like, f***

5:53

me. The whole

5:55

band is doing that. Everybody

5:57

is tipping up. So my question is we.

5:59

fast forward to right now,

6:01

the most important thing this moment right here. What

6:04

do you put that down to? I mean, honestly,

6:06

for me personally, coming out of the pandemic,

6:09

um,

6:10

and just being quarantined

6:13

with my family, it's like, if

6:15

we're going to do this and like,

6:19

I, if I'm going to leave again, if I'm going to leave again, and

6:21

if we're going to go, cause I was like really nervous about leaving

6:23

and really, I didn't want to leave my family, we got like

6:27

way tighter and stuff like that. I was like, it's gotta

6:29

be for me, at least it's gotta be with purpose.

6:31

Like it can't just be like this

6:34

is my job show here. Yeah. It just didn't, yeah.

6:36

It, it couldn't be that anymore

6:39

to me. By the way, it's a great job and you can continue

6:41

it because what you've achieved before will

6:43

keep you in employment, but it's to

6:46

your point, it gets less than as inspiring

6:48

by the day. Yeah. It's not like the dream

6:50

you signed up for, you know, you want to do it for

6:52

the reasons, you know, like anybody

6:54

who loves the thing that they do their craft, you want to

6:56

do it for the reason you originally loved, you know, and

6:58

you, it's great actually to me to have these

7:01

moments where you can like reorganize

7:03

your, the, the apartment of your mind

7:05

or whatever you're like, you're like, Oh, like

7:07

I'm not doing this because like, I've just started

7:09

doing this because like I did it every day. And it's like, I

7:12

always turn left. I always now my neural

7:14

pattern is I do this and it's like, why?

7:16

You know what I mean? Like life is short and long.

7:18

So that's a big question at our

7:21

age. Why, man?

7:22

Well, and that was, and the why, you know,

7:24

it's funny. That was unfair of me to include you in my

7:26

age bracket. But I apologize.

7:31

It's funny thinking about the why

7:33

and kind of what you were saying, the getting

7:35

out there and there's a, there's a,

7:38

there's an element that, you

7:40

know,

7:41

people would ask me about Foley,

7:44

which was a weird record that we did that,

7:46

you know, it's, it's, it's either it's a love

7:48

or hate it record. You know, some people love that

7:50

record. Some people don't. And, and

7:52

people will ask me like, what did you do? Why

7:55

is that one different? There was a feeling that

7:57

I kind of wanted to get, I don't want

8:00

to sound anything like that record. But I wanted to get back

8:02

to this feeling that we had when we were making it, which

8:04

was like, I don't know how much

8:06

longer this will last. You know what I mean? Like, like

8:09

when we did that record, you know, the emo

8:11

thing had had this zeitgeist

8:14

explosion moment and we got like

8:16

swept up in it. And but

8:18

then it's like, but I don't know if this is still

8:20

going to, I don't know if we're going to be pop stars tomorrow.

8:23

So this is the last time I can guarantee

8:25

that someone's going to front the bill for me to hire orchestra,

8:28

you know, like whatever. And so there

8:30

was an urgency of like kind of just wanting

8:32

to get your idea on tape because

8:35

who knows, you know, I knew, you know, again, growing

8:38

up in Chicago or whatever, most of the bands that I

8:40

knew from around there that had, you know, they had

8:42

the major label record, you know, it maybe

8:45

had a hit and then they maybe kind of fell off or whatever.

8:47

Like that's, that's what I was used to. So I expected

8:49

that. So I was like, it was like the

8:52

last, this might be the last record I ever

8:54

make. It's so funny you talk about this because this

8:56

really is at the heart of the psychology

8:57

behind the artist and the relationship you

8:59

have with your own, with your own existence,

9:02

which is that there's a system in place,

9:05

which just by the very nature of, of,

9:08

of introducing an idea of like you're

9:10

signed, you're dropped, creates

9:13

an anxiety and an insecurity in

9:16

your psychology,

9:18

which means that even after all the hits and

9:20

all the tickets and the fact that Fallout

9:23

Boy, even if you didn't make this incredible groundbreaking,

9:26

amazing, massive album or already a legacy

9:28

band, you're still

9:30

wondering whether or not you're going to be fired.

9:33

And it's fucked up. But I mean, it's like kind

9:35

of the similar to like when I'll be, you

9:37

know, I play fantasy football and I'm like, oh,

9:39

like Derek Henry, they're like, you know, who's

9:42

maybe the top five running

9:45

backs, you know, are modern times

9:47

like they'll be like trash, trash, trash.

9:49

And then he take, and then he, you know

9:51

what I mean? Like it's like, it's so fickle. You know what I mean?

9:53

It's like the, the, the feeling is so in

9:56

athletics is different because your body will

9:58

eventually decide for you. Yeah.

9:59

Whereas in the arts, no

10:02

one could tell Bowie, you're done. I

10:05

mean, and I thought of Bowie just now because you

10:07

talk about this might be the last chance

10:09

I get for someone to pay for me

10:11

to experiment like this. Bowie didn't

10:13

think that way, but he had a similar feeling,

10:16

I guess, toward the end of his life, which was, if

10:18

this is nearing its end, I'm

10:20

going to make a abstract, freewheeling,

10:23

modern jazz, crazy album. I'm

10:26

gonna do something on Broadway. I'm

10:28

gonna do all these things. Well, cause that's

10:30

the thing is that like hits are great. Hits

10:32

are fun. Hits are fun because people

10:34

resonate with something you did. That's

10:37

a really rewarding feeling when

10:38

you write a song and people love it, but

10:41

you don't know what a hit is. Everybody thinks they do

10:44

and everybody thinks they know how to like make one, but no one

10:46

does. Everybody just kinda, everybody just kinda bumbles

10:48

through it. And when you chase

10:50

a hit, you make garbage, right? Like it's when it's

10:52

most of the stuff that you, most of the stuff that really

10:55

hits is the stuff when you're just feeling inspired

10:57

or whatever, and you're just having, you know, like it's

11:00

weird. And I can say that now after having

11:02

written a bunch of songs and be like, that's a hit. And

11:04

you're like, oh, that's not, that didn't make the record, you know,

11:06

whatever. And, you

11:09

know, so it becomes this

11:11

thing where you're like,

11:11

you kinda have to make something just

11:15

to express yourself. And like I said, I don't

11:18

have that propulsion. I'm

11:23

like a clockmaker or something. Like I need,

11:26

someone needs to buy the clock. Someone needs to order the clock

11:28

and then I will make that thing. But if

11:31

Pete doesn't send me lyrics, I don't write a song. And

11:33

so I, you know, I sat

11:36

around for years waiting for these lyrics,

11:38

you know? I was just building up like, please

11:40

send me something. Please send me something this

11:42

good, you know? Like something I can, you know, and

11:44

then he sends these words

11:45

and you're like, you know. I mean, I had a friend

11:48

though, I think, you know, kind of when the rock

11:50

music kind of reentered the mainstream and

11:52

there's these festivals and I had a friend who was like, you guys

11:54

need to make Sugar We're Going Down Part Two. And

11:57

this person is pretty much almost always

11:59

wrong.

11:59

got feeling wrong. And I was

12:02

like, that is exactly what we need. I love

12:04

how you have a friend who's

12:06

the worst instincts of anyone. Always turns wrong. Yeah, it's

12:09

great. I think we all have that friend. Dude,

12:13

it's a real test of friendship, but it's a beautiful friendship. Totally.

12:15

And you need to keep them around. It's like a canary in a coal mine.

12:18

Like, you check. You don't have any check. And

12:20

when this friend says this to you and you know their

12:22

instincts are totally off, do they know that

12:24

you think their instincts are totally off? No, not at all.

12:26

Because I keep them you go. You're employed

12:28

in the friendship. That's the first single.

12:31

OK, cut that record. Interesting. It's not a record.

12:33

So you say, Joe.

12:35

I know it's not Joe. No, no,

12:37

no. That would be amazing. You say, dude,

12:40

that's a great idea. But you know it's

12:42

a terrible idea. I kind of like, yeah, yeah,

12:44

yeah, yeah, totally. And I think even beyond

12:46

that, I've had people come up to me

12:48

in the airport or something and they'll say stuff like,

12:51

I grew up with you guys. Like, you know,

12:53

like, save rock and roll. And

12:55

I'm like, you grew up with a, like, what? That's

12:57

like, that just happens. I feel like I felt

12:59

old when we made that. Or

13:02

someone will be like, Andy Hurley. Like, I

13:04

play drums because of Andy Hurley. I'm like, the

13:06

dude that I met, we were

13:09

drawing snakes around each other's necks with magic

13:11

marker like that. But like,

13:13

time does that. You don't what? Yeah, I know. It's

13:15

like, it's so stupid. We're drawing fake tattoos

13:17

around each other. You're drawing tattoos. And you chose to

13:19

draw snakes around each other's necks? Yeah, it's so

13:22

weird. Yeah, I don't know if you know those snakes are cool. Especially

13:24

around the neck. So stupid. But

13:27

it's like, you know, James Bond or Metallica.

13:29

Like, people have all these different inception points. So

13:32

you can't just make a full throwback

13:34

thing, you know? And I think Patrick had originally

13:36

wanted to work with Neil, Avron, who'd done our

13:39

first two big records in.

13:41

I was like a little nervous about

13:43

it. And I called Neil. I just didn't want

13:45

to, like, I think to me personally, there's

13:47

a real danger to when

13:50

guys who have, like, swimming

13:53

pools or something try to go and make a throwback

13:55

record. It often sounds like guys who have,

13:57

like, swimming pools making a throwback record. You know what

13:59

I mean?

13:59

And so I just didn't want to do

14:02

that and I reached out to Neil and

14:04

Neil was like I'm into it We cannot

14:06

make old Fall Out Boy. I was like I'm

14:09

in I can't believe this is the first thing It was like magical

14:11

that that was the first thing he said to me Yeah well the thing was

14:13

that because I think you know there's a there's

14:15

a anxiety about working

14:18

with a producer because

14:19

There's what they do,

14:21

but there's also what you do with them You know I

14:23

mean like the a producer sounds that you know a

14:25

producer imparts a certain sound on your on

14:27

your thing But there's also you you

14:30

know you deliver something to

14:32

them And I think there was a fear that you know that

14:34

I was going to show up and do and you

14:36

know just just because of The comfort of it be

14:39

like you know oh, I'm going to do a you

14:41

know pop-punk record or something

14:49

You

14:53

know I think that was it there was a fairly

14:55

valid concern that I could fall back into

14:57

that But I had this I had been

15:00

It's funny. I was thinking about how Neil

15:02

has Changed and grown since

15:05

he worked with us last you know

15:07

I mean he's he's like a like Multigrammy

15:10

winning you know mixer for

15:13

Broadway stuff and and you know and he's

15:15

been he's mixed and mastered all these big away

15:18

from where you Also,

15:21

the original he was producing us it was

15:23

literally like he was our dad

15:25

on the west coast This you guys

15:27

you guys all get along everybody will be friends

15:30

after this record You know like it's yeah

15:32

It was just you know and so

15:33

I kind of had this hunch And

15:36

I was like we got to go to Neil because because

15:38

I had this hunch that like Whatever

15:40

we bring him. He will he will do

15:42

well So it's a matter of what we have to

15:45

bring him the right stuff, but he's

15:47

I'll make a confession Patrick's the guy

15:49

the gut You're telling

15:51

us all that like we don't know that yeah,

15:53

it's the truth

15:59

anxiety guy. I'm not, takes one

16:02

to know one, bro. Where the overthinkers? Such

16:04

an overthinker. But one of the things

16:06

about working with Neil, the

16:10

first thing he said to me, I called

16:13

him, so this little, you

16:15

know, inside baseball, now outside baseball,

16:19

I was, I got COVID and I was sitting in

16:21

a hotel, a quarantine, and

16:23

I had nothing to do when I'm sitting there. Was

16:25

this when you were watching Green Day play the show across

16:28

the car park in the stadium? You were supposed

16:29

to be playing that night? Oh yeah, it was maddening.

16:32

It's maddening. Which city was that? It

16:35

was in DC, so I'm sitting there in DC and I'm looking

16:37

over this. We would ride on a COVID, like a sick bus. We'd

16:39

get on with our gloves on and masks.

16:42

Yes, like triple masks to get in

16:44

and out and stuff. And like when you walk on, it's like doom

16:46

music. No, it was terrifying. It was, it was

16:48

often, COVID was horrible. And

16:50

so I'm sitting there miserable and

16:53

watching the show that we

16:55

should be playing, because that was the one, like

16:57

you said, it's like literally overlooking the show.

16:59

So I'm

16:59

like, this is miserable. I

17:02

have a pizza that I can't taste. And

17:04

I'm like, and I call Neil and I was like, Hey,

17:07

you want to do a record? And he's like, you know,

17:09

and he had so many concerns. And

17:11

the first thing he said to me, and this stuck

17:13

with me, was he's like, what are you writing about? He

17:16

didn't care at all about the sound. He didn't

17:18

care because we've worked together enough. He

17:20

knows like, we'll figure out the sound. We'll

17:23

figure out how to make it sound good. He's like, what is Fall

17:25

Out Boy writing about? And you were like, hello reception. Can

17:27

you put me through to room 406? That's

17:29

his

17:29

problem. Exactly.

17:34

Exactly. So what

17:37

name is this guy staying under again? Mr.

17:41

I don't know. Yeah. I Irving

17:43

don't know. But

17:48

it's a great question. And it's actually a rare question because

17:50

most producers and to your point, people who work in the Sonic

17:52

landscape would go, man, where are we going to

17:54

take this musically and mix wise and odds is

17:56

so much has changed since we last worked together to

17:59

take it back to the most.

17:59

important question that anyone should ask themselves

18:02

before they make music with words?

18:04

That's the most important question. And it was,

18:06

again, that why. Everything went back to

18:08

why, which I loved. I loved that everybody

18:11

at every point in this, Joe, frankly,

18:14

was kind of like hesitant to do a record.

18:17

And he's like, and I was like, what, what

18:20

are you hesitant about? He's like, well, I want

18:22

to make something that we like savor.

18:24

I want to make something that like we go in and we and

18:27

we really spend the time. You

18:29

know, it's one of those things where technology, it's

18:31

amazing how fast you can make a record now. And

18:34

it's glorious. And sometimes it's so spontaneous

18:36

and amazing. You leave the studio like that was crazy.

18:38

We've written songs before, you know, and recorded

18:40

them in the span of an hour and been like, that was that

18:43

was incredible. But there is something about

18:46

the like, you know, like, like

18:48

an old like your grandmother making dumplings

18:50

or something. And, you know, everyone's just made lovingly

18:52

or whatever. Like, like Joe was like,

18:55

that was his condition of making a record. And I'm like,

18:57

yeah, okay, totally. Like I like make

19:00

a record where we spend, you know, we spend

19:02

days on my

19:04

food. Yeah, exactly. You know,

19:06

chew your food. Like, I get it. And

19:08

it and you've done it. And it's the

19:11

scale of ambition on this album. And by the way, Neil

19:13

was right, because the way it sounds is

19:15

awesome. Like the subs in the drums and the

19:17

way that everything fits together is so modern

19:19

and brilliant. It takes what

19:21

you promised in the beginning, like I said, and takes all

19:24

the experience and sort of connects the

19:26

two points. That's awesome. But

19:28

it's it's hugely grand in

19:30

terms of its ambition. It's track listing, the

19:33

messages, what you're trying to say, everything

19:35

is connected. It's,

19:37

dare I say, my friends, but of a rock

19:39

opera. Yeah, for sure.

19:42

You know, yeah. What were

19:44

you writing about at that time? And what I

19:47

what are we listening to? What are the overarching themes?

19:49

I mean, we streaming the apocalypse. We're on the

19:51

verge of some massive change.

19:53

Yeah. I mean, to me, every

19:58

September I get like a weird.

20:00

gut feeling about mortality

20:04

and the way the world, like

20:06

my place in the world and my therapist

20:09

was like, it's matriculation. So you don't really

20:11

feel it on January 1st. You feel it when like everybody

20:13

starts school again and the year starts again. And

20:16

I was like, I'm like my

20:18

dad's age, like when he was,

20:20

when I thought he had it all figured out and like my parents

20:22

are starting to look like my grandparents and my kids

20:25

are like the age that I was,

20:27

you know, and this is just, I guess how the world goes on. But I

20:29

was thinking about it in terms of, and

20:31

we sampled him, but I was thinking about it in terms of

20:34

Ethan Hawke's speech in Reality Bites

20:36

where he talks about this pink seashell and

20:38

how his dad, you know, he never really knew his dad

20:41

and his dad gave him the pink seashell and he went there. All

20:44

the answers in the universe. And he goes, I guess there's no answers.

20:46

So there's this kind of like the idea

20:49

that nothing matters. You know what I mean? Like

20:51

none of it matters. And that was a weird message for

20:53

me. Like I was like, I can't, I don't think we can bake that into

20:55

the whole record because I've heard records like that. That's been said

20:58

before. But then I was watching Field

21:00

of Dreams and in that he makes a similar reference

21:02

where he's like, he's like, my dad was an old man

21:04

before I even got to know who he was. And

21:06

he was just already old and I never did one

21:09

crazy thing. So the

21:11

reason he went out and built the field in the grass

21:13

is because he was doing a crazy thing because that's what breaks you out of the

21:16

pink seashell thing. You know, like we all should be

21:18

doing stuff like that. Like turn

21:20

left when you think you should turn right, you know, like, and

21:22

to me in ways, a

21:25

lot of this record was in a lot of like Patrick, a lot

21:27

of Patrick's

21:28

job with me beyond words is like interpreting

21:30

because I,

21:32

you know, like I must have eaten too many like like

21:34

lead paint when I was a kid or something like all my stuff

21:37

is like a little bit off. You know, like how I see movies

21:39

and how I hear music, it's all like a little not

21:41

correct. So I'll tell Patrick, I'm like, what

21:43

if it was like this mixed with this and

21:45

like anyone else on the planet would be like, that

21:48

makes zero sense. You're not speaking like

21:50

an artist. You don't know what you're talking about. But Patrick's

21:52

like, oh, do you mean this? And I'm

21:54

like, exactly. And then he the next iteration

21:57

is exactly what I meant. Yeah, it's and

21:59

it's kind of.

21:59

It gets to this kind of twin

22:01

speak thing where like now, now

22:04

I understand his thing enough

22:06

where, so I was talking about

22:08

this, someone was asking me about this like, cause you know, they're

22:10

like, well, so when you, when you use his words, you

22:12

use all the words he sends, like, I'm

22:14

like, it's hard to, it's really hard to describe the way

22:17

Pete writes cause it's like living

22:19

in his brain for a minute. Like it's not

22:21

really like, it's not linear at all. It's not linear.

22:24

It's not like he doesn't sit down and write songs. He just writes

22:26

thoughts and you find all these

22:29

thoughts and then so a lot of times I'm taking

22:31

hold, you know, stanzas or whatever, but then sometimes I have

22:33

to move things around. And every

22:35

so often I have to, I have

22:37

to add some connective tissue, you know, a couple of

22:40

words here and he knows every,

22:42

it's weird. Cause you don't remember. It's the weird,

22:44

it's the weirdest thing I've ever seen. He doesn't know

22:46

which words he wrote and does, and didn't

22:48

write, but every time he's like, if you add a

22:51

non-Pete word, he's like, I gotta change that.

22:53

I don't want to remember that. And totally.

22:56

It's like,

22:56

and, and, but I'm talking like

22:59

those and ands, like,

23:02

like every, everything there's a feeling.

23:04

And so it's weird because now I have,

23:06

it doesn't fit into your idea of what, of what

23:08

the poetic, the poetic result

23:11

is. Yes. Right. It's too connective. Yes.

23:13

And there's, yes. Is that right? Yeah. 100%. And

23:16

there's certain words that just don't make sense to

23:18

fall out boy. And there's certain words that just don't make sense

23:20

to me. He doesn't say. So, so now it's one of

23:22

those things where now I've gotten better

23:25

at it where with connective stuff,

23:26

I'm like, I'm like, how do I do this? This

23:28

is, this is how Pete would say that. You know,

23:31

like, it was like back in the day, it was like, Patrick's like, what's

23:33

the difference between cry and weep? I will kill

23:35

you. Like this, they're the same thing. I'm

23:37

going to kill you right now. So this was back when

23:39

I would try to write the lyrics. We

23:42

would get into these, these arguments because I was

23:44

all about the aesthetic. The, I really like

23:46

alliteration. I really liked the, the sound

23:48

of words. I like, you know, chewing on words and

23:50

the way that the rhythm flows and all those things. The

23:52

sound of it is very, very important to me. And,

23:56

and I would have, you

23:56

know, this, this line where, you know,

23:58

every, you know, again, the alliteration

24:01

and the rhythm and everything was blocked and Pete would

24:03

be like, no, you gotta change that one word and I'm like And

24:06

you would submit like you'd be like change

24:09

this one word to 40 words. Yes And

24:13

and I have the opposite I don't really care

24:15

at all about how it sounds Yeah,

24:18

I mean I did or like the phrasing doesn't

24:20

really matter to me You know, so like those two

24:22

things are always at odds with you So it's but it's interesting

24:24

because the the odds that you do we both

24:27

perfectly describing

24:28

Are so integral

24:31

to what makes Fallout boy exciting

24:35

because your desire to

24:37

create linear flow and

24:40

your desire to completely reverse

24:42

engineer a statement or a word

24:44

or a feeling and over describe

24:47

it is

24:48

the reason why My

24:51

songs know what you did in the dark.

24:53

It's the reason why You

24:55

know the same is seen it seen it's a goddamn

24:57

arms race It's the reason why these

25:00

statements become mantras that people tattoo

25:02

on their fucking body because no

25:04

one else thought of them and

25:06

You and this gets back to

25:08

you now, ma'am you sing them and

25:12

I'm just gonna say it ma'am. I don't

25:15

think there's anyone on the planet who could have

25:17

have actually performed over this Music

25:20

on this album. Hmm. It would have swallowed

25:22

everybody up eventually agreed by song 7

25:25

or song 8 It just would have swallowed everybody

25:27

up and you just Dominate

25:29

it man. I don't know how you do it,

25:32

but you just but you just somehow they

25:34

can't throw enough at you I

25:36

don't know. Do you know what I mean? Yeah a hundred

25:38

percent and then on that level

25:40

I do think it's like a good athletic thing. He just

25:43

does he's able to just do it He like

25:45

just in the locker room and he's still writing plays

25:47

totally He steps up to the mic and he

25:49

just does it and you're like I would never expect I

25:52

would have never expected it the first time we met because

25:54

of your personality and the way you yourself,

25:57

but like you It's like

25:59

yeah You know when people say that guy could

26:01

sing a fucking recipe? Oh no. That

26:05

guy could sing a fucking recipe

26:08

and you'd still fucking love it. Pie-crossed

26:10

apples, granulated sugar,

26:14

brown sugar, flour,

26:15

cinnamon, nutmeg, lemon

26:19

egg.

26:19

I don't know. Whatever. It's

26:22

early. I'm not belting this shit. I mean,

26:24

you gotta be... You gotta be... Quip-minated for

26:26

making a pie. Yes, he is.

26:30

Nine inch pie, play rolling pin. I don't

26:32

know. Amazing. I think we've...

26:34

Fucking can. I think we've discovered your

26:36

YouTube channel, just for the record. That's

26:39

a quite fucking idea. Patrick

26:41

Sings Ricks the Peace. I'm around. But

26:44

it is a thing though, man. I feel like

26:46

there's something in when you love the sound of words, because that's the thing

26:52

that gets me. That's the thing that grabs

26:55

me as the sound of words. It's

26:57

one of the reasons why I can... But by the way, it's the same for him.

26:59

Just different coming from a different place. It

27:02

is coming from a different

27:02

place, and that's one of the things that I

27:05

found early on. We

27:07

weren't gonna get there by discussing it. If

27:13

I wait for the rhythm from him, because

27:15

he doesn't mean to have rhythm. That's the thing

27:17

that's so strange is that he doesn't mean to have rhythm

27:19

in the thing. So then I find these syncopations

27:22

and I'm like, that's amazing. When

27:25

you're writing from a place of not...

27:29

Every so often,

27:30

there are things that work.

27:32

People

27:35

ask me, how do you do what you do or whatever?

27:37

And I'm like, try this. I swear to God, try

27:39

this. No one wants to do it. This

27:42

is one of the things I've always said in songwriting is

27:44

try writing the words first and not thinking

27:46

about the music at all. We

27:51

all do this thing when we're writing a song

27:54

and you think about the melody and you start

27:56

humming over the thing and you play around or whatever.

27:59

And you're gonna put in words,

28:02

sometimes we have words that we go to

28:04

as filler, sometimes we have words we don't mean to

28:06

go to, but whatever. Natural intonation

28:09

games, all that stuff. And it's cool, and you get

28:11

some interesting things that way, but the way that

28:13

Pete writes,

28:15

I would totally,

28:16

you freely tell anybody to try

28:19

and write that way. Just write your thoughts. I don't know,

28:21

Pete. I don't know, because you know one of my

28:23

favorite songs on here is Fake

28:25

Out, right? And I think...

28:29

Take 9, and cut

28:31

through the darkness, castle

28:33

temperate wine, but I made

28:35

no plans, and none can

28:37

be broken, remember us

28:40

just like this forever.

28:43

Actually,

28:43

it does f***ing work, you know? No,

28:45

but that's... That was kind of tight.

28:47

There was like a Dylan-ish vibe to it. But

28:51

my point being that, like, no

28:54

one can just do that sh**. Like,

28:56

I'm reading this, like,

28:58

lovers in the air, I just gotta figure out a window

29:00

to break out. Like, how the f*** do

29:03

you get that in a song without taking up

29:05

at least 8 bars? Like,

29:07

it's... I know, by the way, fully

29:09

aware that we're in absolute major nerd

29:11

out mode. Yeah, no, we should be. But the good

29:14

news is that if you're as big a Fallout

29:16

boy fan as I am, this is f***ing gold

29:18

dust. This is heaven-eye-oh-where right now. So,

29:23

for me, it's like, whatever the f*** you have, the way

29:25

it works for you two, it's just entirely

29:27

unique.

29:28

We were texting each other the other

29:30

day, like, it's weird sometimes being

29:33

us, because we're

29:36

really similar dudes, completely wildly

29:39

different dudes, you know what I mean? And

29:42

every so often, you look at each other and you're like,

29:45

if we were one guy, you know,

29:48

that'd be an incredible dude. I was

29:51

thinking the same thing about 20 minutes ago, I was like, you're

29:53

sort of the perfect one person. But

29:55

here's the thing about one person who has both of

29:57

these abilities in equal measure,

29:59

go crazy. Go crazy. Easily. No

30:02

question. And I think that's one of the things that you'd never be able to

30:04

switch it off. And I think it's great

30:06

because we, we kind of catch each other. There's

30:09

been times where both of us have been kind

30:11

of off a little bit and you, and you have

30:13

somebody else to be like, to be like,

30:16

you know, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah.

30:18

Don't do sugar again. You know, the

30:21

two of you as a writing team is incredible. You could,

30:23

there was no Ford out boy without Andy and Joe, but

30:25

I want to ask you like, okay, so we've had conversations

30:28

together multiple times. I mean, this is,

30:29

we've been doing this for 20 odd years. What

30:32

is fall out? What is the fall out boy experience for them?

30:34

Because I never see them. We

30:37

never talk.

30:38

I don't take it personally. I just happens

30:40

a lot in the arts. Some people just don't

30:43

do it for that reason. I think that our

30:45

issue, um, will tend

30:47

to be more like it's, it started

30:49

with, and I would assume that I'll be answering like this.

30:52

When we do photo shoots, we literally

30:54

would have to swap heads because someone's

30:56

eyes would always be closed. And it's like,

30:59

it's like probably when you have your kids or

31:01

whatever, like you can't like getting four people.

31:03

It's like, it's impossible. It's very

31:05

difficult. I think to interview

31:08

the four of us were like, everybody's talking and talking

31:10

over each other. And it really makes

31:13

sense in our van and in

31:15

the bus because like, that's just how we, we,

31:18

it's kind of like an ever going conversation where

31:20

it goes to Marvel movies and the music and

31:22

the hardcore bands and you know, whatever.

31:24

And it's just like, it's like a group

31:27

chat, but we say it out loud to each other or whatever, you

31:29

know, um, why wouldn't that be fun

31:30

for me? It might be fun for you. I think you're

31:33

the guy who could

31:35

wrangle. You could break this stallion. I think cause you

31:37

know what? I would talk over all of you at the same time.

31:39

So it would be exactly the same. I agree with that

31:42

because I feel like that was one of the things we used to

31:44

do interviews and they would have all four of us. It

31:46

would be, it was fun, but it

31:49

was chaos. I mean, I've been, I wonder sort of like, okay,

31:51

if they don't have this part of the job and I'm sure

31:53

there's other things that they don't do that you do like writing

31:55

lyrics necessarily, maybe they do at times,

31:57

I don't know. But I mean, primarily we know, we know you as the

31:59

writer.

31:59

the melody and the musician

32:02

who puts everything together with that. It's a band.

32:05

What is it to them? You

32:07

can look back at their experience just

32:09

a little bit. Totally. What is Fall Out

32:11

Boy for them? I think that at least from

32:14

Fall

32:15

Out Boy 2.0, like when

32:17

we came back after the break, it was interesting

32:19

to see all of us as adults.

32:22

All of us as adults, you know,

32:24

like so everybody's got kids,

32:26

everybody has, you know, a mortgage. Andy

32:29

doesn't have kids, but he's got three

32:31

chihuahuas, or I don't know. But

32:34

it was interesting to see everybody as an adult and everybody

32:36

had kind of like filled in areas

32:38

that were blank previously because we

32:41

lived in a van for eight years straight or

32:43

lived in a bus out of suitcases. So there's parts

32:46

of your life that were blank, you know

32:48

what I mean? And you never filled in because they weren't necessary

32:51

to promote the music or they weren't

32:52

a part of it. So everybody

32:54

kind of filled those areas in. And for me at least,

32:58

I think it was cool to see everybody.

33:00

Like I was like, oh, this is like Andy's

33:02

not like the guy that we drew snakes on each

33:04

other's neck, you know, whatever. He's like grown.

33:07

He's like a man now. You know what I mean? You

33:09

could see a future of maturity for

33:12

everybody. And the band still

33:14

is relevant. Totally. And I think that

33:16

Joe, on

33:18

this record, he really stepped

33:21

up and wrote. Yeah, Joe, it was interesting

33:23

because that's another thing. Joe

33:26

is kind of a conundrum, right? Because

33:29

he's this really talented. I mean, he's a

33:31

brilliant writer, brilliant player. But

33:34

Pete and I became the team. And

33:38

it wasn't really a plan. That's

33:40

just kind of how it happened. And then

33:42

we come back after. It's

33:44

weird because the break, it wasn't that long a break, whatever.

33:46

But for some reason, it's this like flashpoint for the band.

33:49

We come back and we're like, OK. Probably the

33:52

note we put on the Internet that was like, we're taking a

33:54

break. We don't know if we'll be back. It's so funny,

33:56

man, because I say the same thing to every

33:58

one of my friends who's in a band who is an artist.

33:59

to does that I'm like don't do that. No,

34:02

and the thing was that I didn't necessary. Life

34:04

goes on man. I didn't say no it was just in interviews

34:06

because we didn't really have a plan. We

34:09

didn't clear it with each other. Yeah, yeah,

34:11

yeah. That's fair. But... You

34:14

come back from the flash. You come back from the thing

34:16

and Joe is this like fully formed writer

34:19

with a very distinct, I

34:21

mean he has one of the most distinctive writing

34:23

voices. When I hear his parts, when I hear his ideas,

34:26

I could pick him out of a crowd.

34:28

Like I know the way Joe writes

34:29

and it's very Joe,

34:32

right? And then

34:34

we had to kind of retrofit and figure

34:36

out how to bring him into it because it's like

34:40

now all the egos are cooled,

34:42

everybody is like friends again

34:44

and really whatever but now we have to figure out creatively

34:47

how you incorporate. We were friends for a little bit?

34:49

I don't know. I

34:51

thought we were cool and then you... Jesus.

34:54

We might need that Metallica therapist. No, no, no. I

34:56

feel like the... Look, we didn't

34:59

talk very much during that break. It

35:02

wasn't not friends but like... I was just

35:04

kidding.

35:04

No, but the people want to know.

35:08

My life had... During that time, my

35:10

life had blown up completely. I

35:13

got divorced, realized I didn't really

35:15

like how famous I was, didn't

35:18

like love who I was, would

35:21

go... Like I started, you know, like I'd fly

35:24

without the band and I'd be like, how do you even get through

35:26

the airport? Because I just follow a backpack through the

35:28

air, security guys backpack through the airport. So I don't

35:30

even really... So like I'd atrophied basic...

35:32

Yeah, arrested development. Yeah, and stuff

35:34

I just didn't even get because you didn't need it. You

35:37

know what I mean? So you were coming out of a heady time.

35:40

People got to remember when you guys were around as successful for the

35:42

first time, that was like a 4.0

35:45

Sunset Strip experience. Yeah,

35:47

it's weird to like look back on now. That

35:49

was Dark Tower paparazzi.

35:51

So paparazzi

35:55

broke down Neil's gate

35:57

to his house when we were working on Foley.

35:59

was like that degree of like chaos

36:02

of like. And by the way, how the do you know what's gonna

36:04

happen? So here we go. Hey, we're ambitious.

36:06

Oh, it's kind of working. Oh, we

36:09

work with the right person. Oh, we have a hit.

36:11

Oh, hits matter in

36:13

this era of like, here comes

36:15

social media. Before that, here's the paparazzi. They

36:18

feed the media. Oh, I'm really successful.

36:20

Oh, I really like this girl. She's famous. Oh,

36:23

the next thing you know, oh,

36:26

totally. And I think that like, so

36:28

for me, I needed to take time to

36:30

just like

36:32

become a real person. You know

36:34

what I mean? Like I

36:36

didn't like any of that.

36:38

I didn't like any

36:41

of the things that the trappings that came with

36:43

it. You know what I mean? Did you not like it for

36:45

him or him? Cause

36:47

I feel like you didn't wanna know about it.

36:52

I didn't, I hated all

36:54

of it from like the word go. Cause the

36:56

thing was for me, all of it

36:58

took away. This sounds so

37:00

cliche, but it is very earnest for me is

37:05

the only reason I'm here is music.

37:07

That's what I wanna do. I don't care about

37:10

any of the rest of it. Literally, no other rest of

37:12

it. Ironically, not the cliche. The cliche is the

37:14

other. But I'm saying, but I feel like people say that. But

37:16

I mean, I

37:19

genuinely, I just enjoy the making

37:21

of it. I don't even, there

37:24

is a great joy to playing a show

37:26

and having people respond to it. That is not

37:29

even the thing that gets me. I like

37:31

the creating of music. I

37:33

have to be in a studio and I have to be working. And

37:36

the thing, the like,

37:39

you know, you'd have to go to

37:41

this party or this meeting or this thing.

37:44

It all started to, this photo shoot every

37:46

day. It was like, you know, I wanna be in a studio.

37:49

I

37:49

wanna be working. I want to be composing.

37:51

That's what I get up for. And

37:55

I couldn't do it anymore. I

37:57

couldn't do all the other stuff. I couldn't do all

37:59

the like.

37:59

You know the lights and the thing and the

38:02

red carpet and the Pete got thrown

38:04

into it I think it's weird watching it from the outside

38:07

And then you what you asked it

38:09

was really upsetting actually because I feel

38:11

like Pete is an interesting dude You

38:14

know whatever you talked about me singing. I'll talk

38:16

about you Pete's an interesting

38:18

person and always was and

38:20

that's not always a thing that you choose right?

38:23

That's not always a put-on right Pete

38:25

walks into a room when he's having a good

38:27

day or a bad day and people

38:29

look at him

38:30

right and it's one of these things that you you

38:33

so then all of a sudden you have all this attention on

38:35

you and And it's like you have

38:37

two choices either you embrace it or you

38:39

reject it if you embrace it It's like oh

38:41

look at this guy if you reject it It's like

38:43

oh this guy you know so there's really no

38:45

right answer and all of it sucks And

38:48

we were like in the depths of that we're

38:50

like everywhere. We went it was like

38:52

this whole thing right everything

38:54

was a thing And like I don't know and

38:57

and I was like I Man, I

38:59

just I'm just here to sing some stuff

39:01

and play some instruments like this is wow This

39:03

is like so beyond I didn't sign

39:06

up for this you know and and you got

39:08

to think that at this point also Music

39:10

became for on the floor dance music.

39:12

That's like or like pop music. It was yeah

39:16

But you can exist in that world. I'm not worried about that. I mean

39:18

you guys make dance records I it that's And

39:21

also you're it's

39:22

and people know this now to say maybe Five

39:26

to eight years ago the biggest trick for all that

39:28

boy played on anybody is that you're not one of the most

39:30

innovative? Forward-thinking bands

39:33

on the planet. I think everybody knows that now.

39:35

I think you've done enough yeah I

39:37

think everybody knows that now, so that's not the thing.

39:40

I just want to credit you for a second

39:42

for beautifully and eloquently Describing

39:45

what everybody got wrong? Which is that

39:48

you're my heart Yeah broke my heart to watch

39:50

people say that stuff because I'm like because

39:53

he doesn't it's look like I said

39:55

there are days Where he chooses it. It's not it

39:57

wasn't always a choice and when

39:59

it's not

39:59

And then you don't get to turn it off either when

40:02

you're when you're famous when that when

40:04

that bell lights off That's

40:06

it and you're stuck with it. And so everywhere

40:09

we went for like a few years It was like and

40:11

I was gonna say you can't get through

40:13

that

40:14

Wall once that wall surrounds

40:17

him how can you gonna get through to your

40:19

buddy? And and he would reach

40:21

out because by the way that time you're probably high

40:23

as well Oh for sure because you're like distraction

40:26

distracted What the fuck do I have to do to even just survive

40:28

this for sure? So I mean I can't imagine

40:31

how hot it was for you and the guys to have to deal with that. It

40:33

sucked it super sucked

40:35

because it was one of those things where I

40:37

feel like Part of my role

40:40

is to like tell his story. That's what I'm

40:42

I'm a composer That's what I like to do. I work

40:45

in movies

40:45

and I work on shows and I work on Pete

40:48

right like Pete Tells, you know

40:50

has a story that needs music and

40:53

if he's removed from

40:55

himself You know, I mean if he's not even able

40:57

to access himself because he's behind

40:59

all of this stuff What story

41:02

can you what? I don't have a story Yeah So so

41:04

not only was I not only did I not have my buddy

41:07

like which was heartbreaking in its own way But

41:10

then I also don't have a purpose

41:12

as an artist, you know, I mean like that was that

41:14

was rough You know

41:15

like like cuz cuz

41:18

like I said, that's that's like that's what gets

41:20

me out of bed in the morning You know to like do a

41:22

thing back to this record I mean it was

41:24

like these were lyrics that got me out of bed That

41:26

was like the whole thing, you know And that's what this

41:28

album sounds like to me is it sounds like the beginning

41:31

of the rest of your journey Do you know what I mean?

41:33

Like it's it's like it just man it

41:36

it just takes no fucking prisoners And

41:38

it's just so full of ideas and so full of emotions

41:40

and so full of performances. Everyone's just fighting

41:43

to just We're gonna kick

41:45

down

41:45

every wall in front of us Well and then back

41:47

to your you know your point about Joe and Andy

41:50

to Andy's Andy's always

41:52

kind of in You know Andy's always Andy

41:55

is very he's consummate his drums

41:57

are ripping on the record. They're

41:59

Andy shows up, Andy's ready

42:02

to play, Andy likes playing, so he's happy

42:04

to play. But when

42:06

you get that guy happy to play, when

42:08

you give him a thing and he's like amped to play,

42:10

it's this other level. And Tromman,

42:13

it was like, there are

42:15

these moments on the record where he

42:17

got so excited. And it's different

42:19

when everybody, Sidney Lumet said

42:22

about filmmaking that

42:24

the biggest compliment filmmakers can give each

42:26

other when they're working together is, we're making

42:28

the same movie, right? And that's

42:31

what it felt like, is that we all of a sudden

42:33

were making the same record. And

42:35

that's this thing that like, you can't

42:38

bottle that. I'm not a person that is very proud

42:40

of things, that's not the way I operate, I'm really proud

42:42

of this record. Oh, you should be, it's incredible. And by

42:44

the way, it sort of touches on all of the things that

42:46

only you can do. Like, there wasn't

42:48

a band on the planet that could take on Earth, Wind and Fire,

42:51

like you did on what it's time to be alive.

42:53

That was a hard sell, by

42:54

the way, that was a Patrick special,

42:56

I had to bring everybody along. I

42:58

was kicking and screaming for that one at first. It's so fucking

43:01

good though, because you haven't felt

43:03

that good listening to a song for a long

43:05

time. It's like, it's unashamedly like,

43:08

oh, right. And by the way, and I know the sting

43:10

in the tail on that song. I know it's not

43:12

just September, I know that there's a lot of, we're

43:14

streaming the apocalypse, I get it. But also,

43:17

Patrick

43:18

sent me that song in like,

43:20

to me, the most bleak moment

43:23

of the pandemic. So it was interesting because- No, I've seen that

43:25

song before the pandemic. That's

43:28

the thing that's so crazy about that song. So

43:30

it was like a dark moment, I

43:33

think you said. Maybe I was listening to it during the pandemic. It

43:35

was, there were a couple other dark

43:37

things that happened in the world before COVID. It

43:39

wasn't just COVID. Got it. So,

43:42

but I sent you the beginning of that song then,

43:45

and it was weird because as we're working on that, that

43:47

was one of the things that was so brutal about that

43:48

song. As we're working on that song, more

43:51

and more bad things happened. Oh

43:54

yeah. And then all of a sudden

43:56

we're in quarantine and you're like,

43:58

I don't know, man.

43:59

Like, you know, here we are now. It

44:02

was interesting to like listen to that in your house when

44:04

you're like, oh, only one person can go to

44:06

the grocery store right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean,

44:09

even in this finished framework, because it's finished

44:11

body, it's doom dancing. I mean, that's

44:13

what you do. You doom dance. I mean, I feel like a lot of boys

44:15

always doom dancing. Totally. I wanted to write

44:18

the saddest, most desperate song that

44:20

you could hear at a wedding. And

44:23

then make people dance at it. Exactly.

44:25

Exactly. So twisted. How's

44:27

the rest of your life? How does life work

44:29

now that you do all have families, and

44:32

you're all mature, and you're all figuring out like how you want

44:34

to? You need space to learn. As you

44:36

get older, you need space, internal space

44:38

and external space to actually keep

44:41

growing. Otherwise, to your point, it just becomes

44:43

rote, right? Yeah, that was the

44:45

thing that I was worried about is because you

44:47

can just make records to make records, you know? And

44:50

I didn't

44:51

want to, I don't ever want to do that again. I think

44:53

that's the thing is that I was like, I hit this point. Oh, again? When

44:55

did you do that at all? No, no, no. I'm saying like, no, we

44:58

didn't. We didn't ever do that. But I'm saying I don't ever want

45:00

to, well, you know what? We always

45:02

show up. We've always showed up and always done

45:04

what we intend to do.

45:07

But there is an element of

45:09

management and label being like, hey, so

45:12

is there a record? And there's that kind of

45:14

momentum behind you. I'm never going to let that

45:16

be wind in my sails again. I want

45:18

to let it come from this thing. Because, sorry,

45:21

that wasn't your question. This is not related to your question at

45:23

all. I don't think that way. But I like

45:25

him. I just think, I don't think Linnea do this.

45:28

I don't even prepare a question. We're on different timelines.

45:30

This is we're watching Loki right now. Yeah, I

45:32

wanted to. That was the whole thing with

45:34

this record is that I'm

45:37

not doing that. Not with this. And

45:40

there's something about the stuff we've done in the interim.

45:44

Joe has been working on writing

45:46

for TV and stuff. And he wrote his book. And

45:49

I've been scoring. I've been doing,

45:51

I've been composing for film and TV for

45:53

like eight years or whatever. There

45:56

are deadlines in that. There's

45:58

notes in that. You're on the job.

45:59

And it's rewarding and great,

46:02

but it made me see

46:04

the way that this needs to not be anything

46:07

like that. There's something special about this that

46:09

can't be notes. This

46:12

has to be

46:12

passionate in art. Full purpose.

46:15

Yeah. Full purpose. You

46:17

talked about the cyclical

46:20

environment that music tends to exist in. Even

46:22

in this world where it's timeline based and the

46:24

cycle is constantly moving, it's not like we

46:27

could shift it like we used to 20 years ago. We're

46:29

shifting it six inches that way, it's

46:31

dance. It's everything

46:33

all the time. Which is great news because now

46:36

you go, when we were young festival, you've got these things that

46:38

are saying, hey,

46:40

there's fuel in the tank with these bands.

46:42

We used to always, like Fall Out Boy,

46:44

I think,

46:46

we had a lot of like, we were super

46:48

into metal, we were into

46:50

reggae, we were into ska, we were into these

46:52

certain movies and all this stuff. Everything,

46:55

everywhere really benefits a band

46:58

like us because we've always restrained

47:00

that stuff. When we bring it into things,

47:02

people are like, why do you want Jay-Z on a record? Which

47:05

is an insane question to ask anybody. But

47:08

at the same time, Jay-Z now is the same question.

47:10

But Jay-Z backed in when he was at his height as an MC,

47:12

people wanted to keep the genre separate. Totally.

47:16

It's weird looking back on that. The advent of record

47:18

stores and you used to have sections

47:21

and this was the section of the record store where you would find the

47:23

rock records and this was the section where you find the hip hop

47:25

records and this was the section where you... All

47:29

of that

47:29

melted away and I think

47:33

we had the blind luck of being... We

47:36

would play like,

47:37

not to step over you, but we would play like radio shows, right?

47:39

So we play like a modern rock radio show

47:41

and we're the only band not selling a black t-shirt and

47:43

they're like, who's this band? And then we played

47:45

like the jingle balls, like the pop ones and

47:48

we're like, f***ing Slayer. You know

47:50

what I mean? It was always a very interesting

47:52

existing band. And the thing that was weird

47:55

about it was because to the point

47:57

about the restraint, that's been a thing that

47:59

was always...

47:59

there from the beginning that

48:02

I think... Wait, what restraint? I

48:04

don't think... The kind of... I

48:06

wasn't trying to... That would factor into your picture. I

48:09

wasn't trying to sing, you know, I didn't know what I was doing,

48:11

right? And the first couple

48:13

of records, I was really scared of

48:15

it because there was kind of a blueprint

48:18

of how PopPunk and

48:20

Emo Band's saying... I'm glad you're going here because

48:22

I was about to go... Yeah, and I was... So

48:24

I was scared. So I kind of... They kind

48:26

of

48:27

had to pull me out a little bit. So

48:29

there's the silliest little moment, but Saturday...

48:32

Saturday is a funny song for us. There's a song on Take

48:35

This You're Great, for the first record. And

48:38

it's this little song, but there's a couple moments

48:40

on it that I was so...

48:42

It's weird looking back now how terrified

48:44

I was of it. There's a little breakdown before

48:46

the chorus that's kind of a hip-hop beat and

48:49

it's really small and I don't think anyone would even track

48:51

it as a hip-hop beat now. But at the time I was like, it's

48:54

not... You know, whatever.

48:56

Yeah, well, I'm going to be hood. I

48:59

was really scared. I was scared that

49:01

this wasn't going to be cool. Everyone was going to be mad

49:03

at me for letting it out. And

49:05

then I do this... I hit this falsetto note

49:07

in the song and that... I was

49:10

like...

49:10

I did it once in rehearsal and I was like, oh, I got

49:12

to... I shouldn't have

49:14

done that. And everyone's like, no, no, do it. Do it. And

49:17

so there was a lot of... A lot of it was them...

49:20

It was all of us letting each other

49:22

kind of like, no, it's okay. We don't have to do

49:24

the thing. We don't have to be... Yeah, but when you did that

49:26

right, people realize, well...

49:28

They're not playing in our sandbox. They're

49:30

not dumbing down their abilities or just

49:32

playing to their abilities because they don't have that ability.

49:35

They're pushing the buttons they were given and not

49:37

apologizing for it. And from there we

49:40

get

49:40

panic, cams.

49:42

It all starts to build on

49:45

top of this like, f*** apologizing

49:47

for what we do. This is what we do.

49:50

And I do trace it back to a moment like

49:52

that because you did start a train. You

49:56

didn't know that, right? I'm too scared to do that on purpose,

49:58

but yeah. But you do know that.

49:59

I'm looking back on it that I'm gonna say

50:02

you ready for this? Oof. Uh

50:04

oh. You're the emo blueprint. That's funny.

50:08

You are in a way and I say that without any

50:11

sense of irony or sarcasm or

50:13

judgment. I mean, that is a beloved

50:15

thing. Like people love emotion

50:18

in music. You can shorten it and call

50:20

you what you want, wear what you want and mark it how

50:22

it want. But you guys came

50:24

out and went, we are unapologetically emotional,

50:27

not only in our words, but in our delivery.

50:29

I don't think we could have done that without him

50:32

because I feel like we, I feel like especially then,

50:36

like, you know, I was, Joe

50:39

and I were like little kids, you know? And

50:42

like, and I was very scared. You

50:44

know, I couldn't even, you know, talk

50:46

on stage or anything. I can't, you know. I remember

50:48

interviewing you in the early days and it was, I felt like every time

50:50

I asked you a question, I was bullying you. No, it was horrifying,

50:53

man. I'm not, yeah. Yeah,

50:55

what, what, what was it that man? You know,

50:57

no, but I mean, oh. The

51:01

late great Mark Leningen said that to me once. I

51:03

was talking to Josh Hommey at this particular tone. I

51:05

said, what about you, Mark? He went, why are you yelling

51:07

at me? I

51:09

mean, it's, we wear it. We were very

51:11

scared and somehow Pete had

51:14

like the right

51:15

kind of confidence

51:18

and like resolve. And so

51:20

like we would go in and, you know, cause

51:23

I don't think, you know, in another life

51:25

where I didn't have a Pete, if I wrote a song,

51:27

cause I, cause Saturday, I

51:29

wrote most of that by my, I did write most of that by myself,

51:32

right? So there's a, there's a world where that song

51:34

exists without the band. There's no world

51:36

where, where I sing it in front of people.

51:39

You know what I mean? Like, like without

51:41

Pete, because I feel like it was, it was

51:44

so much of the like, cause I don't

51:46

know what it was or if that was just

51:48

you and you just felt, you just felt comfortable

51:50

or if there was like a fire under your ass, like, no,

51:52

no, I'm going to do this. And I remember the moment

51:55

for me was arms race. The

51:57

day that my producer came in and said,

52:00

I played Fall Out Boya Back and played, I

52:02

am an arms dealer. And

52:05

I was like, I'm sorry, what are we

52:07

actually listening to right now? Like,

52:10

what do we even call this? Like

52:12

I'm used to like, you know, the whole,

52:15

no, no, no, no, kaka,

52:17

kaka, bang, you know, like, oh man, everyone's

52:19

hitting the right notes. Not that, I'm not

52:21

expecting that. And then I get to the

52:23

lyrics and I'm like, oh, Pete's going

52:25

off. Like Pete

52:28

is just on the whole

52:31

fucking thing. He's trying

52:33

to blow it up. Yeah,

52:36

I think that

52:37

after Take This to Your Grave, we kind of made a

52:39

decision. I don't even know if we really talked about it,

52:42

but we decided like,

52:43

we're gonna

52:44

grow on every record. Like, we're

52:47

not, I

52:48

think there was a chance where we could have made Take

52:50

This to Your Grave, part two. Yeah,

52:52

we wouldn't be here. and then part

52:54

five. We wouldn't be here. And

52:56

so

52:57

we really leaned in and

53:00

did make that decision. And that's where that

53:02

birthed arms raised, that birthed umathermin,

53:04

light them up, thanks

53:07

for the memory. Because it was like, when

53:09

you're free from all that, you can discover

53:11

all this other, you

53:12

know what I mean? Here's the good news, guess who's calling

53:14

you the next day, Jay-Z's going, oh, that song's fucking

53:16

off the hook. I bet you we did. Or

53:18

around that time. It was around that

53:20

time. He's calling up going, you guys are doing the right thing

53:23

because you're not doing what everyone else is fucking doing.

53:26

I want to work with you. There's another

53:29

thing also where, and I can't remember

53:31

what comedian said this, but when you're a famous comedian,

53:33

they said you get one free

53:35

minute on stage. So you get one minute

53:37

where you can just be totally bombing and you're so

53:40

famous that it doesn't really matter. And

53:42

that's like,

53:42

I feel like the spirit of arms

53:44

raised in some of those songs was like, we got a free minute.

53:46

We better let it rip on this thing. You know what

53:49

I mean? And back to that kind of. The

53:51

Titanic or the moon, you know what I mean? Yeah,

53:53

and back to that kind of anxiety you were talking about

53:56

that kind of like, you know, you're still

53:58

scared of getting fired, you know, even.

53:59

No matter what this is the theme of the whole conveyor

54:02

it is and every night before we put every time

54:04

before we put out A record or without a song

54:07

I call the night before and I'm like, I'm

54:09

not sure we should be doing yeah Yes, I

54:12

Wave her I wave her at the last minute. It's very

54:14

sure save rock and roll and my songs I was like,

54:16

I'm not sure and then somehow I talked this

54:18

dude down But

54:21

but to that thing yeah, there's there's a We

54:24

did have a talk on cork tree because cork

54:26

tree was the major label record You

54:29

know like a major label

54:29

debut and again a lot

54:32

of bands sync after that But I was

54:34

like, what if we don't what if we actually

54:36

work? Where do we go and and

54:39

I look back on it and it's kind of a quaint amount

54:41

of change You know when I really think about

54:43

it at the time I was like you you kind of pushed

54:45

you said at one point This is the most

54:48

Quoting Jamie, but like is one of

54:50

the most bizarre pop songs

54:53

who said that our friend John.

54:55

Yeah He was like it is he was like Every

54:58

on top top No, I'm

55:01

gonna go even instead further than JD then in that case I

55:03

think I think it like for the first 15 seconds the

55:05

first time I heard that I was like is everyone in the same key Yeah,

55:10

because it's like the bass is doing one thing you're

55:12

singing another thing and in comes this guitars like wow wow

55:16

Like yo, they just can take four separate tracks

55:18

and put them

55:18

together I was so from one of the cork tree was big

55:20

enough that we got asked perform live at the

55:22

amas So we're there in front of all these

55:25

like yeah famous people like

55:28

Giant Giant grasshoppers

55:30

cuz they were on the album cover And we were like we need them for the life

55:32

before we do these giant grasshoppers to make no

55:34

sense We're playing the song and

55:37

it's like the moment in Back to the Future where

55:39

he starts really shredding and everyone's like

55:41

Yeah, he's like guess you're not ready for that You

55:44

can't really like that

55:48

It was it remember

55:51

who you saw in the crowd when you realized that

55:53

didn't quite land the way I thought was gonna I feel like I

55:55

remembered watching because Snoop

55:58

had performed what drop it like it's hot yeah

55:59

Yeah, it was like that. And there were these ladies

56:02

who, I think, to me, I was like, they

56:04

look like they're not into music, but they were like doing his

56:06

dance, whatever the dance was from the video. And

56:08

so I was like, they really are keyed into pop moments.

56:11

I remember when we were playing, I was looking at them, and they were

56:14

either blank or aghast. You know what I mean? Like

56:16

just like, nah. I just remember the

56:18

stage manager. The stage manager, we worked

56:20

with him a few times. He was a good guy. But I

56:22

remember the stage manager being like, like

56:25

looking over at us like, what are you doing? Like,

56:28

there's this moment, because we had

56:30

the crickets up there, and the fricking

56:32

crickets.

56:33

And literally, we have all the things you

56:35

could put in a costume, a fricking crickets. But get

56:37

this, so Pete had this idea. It's just learned.

56:39

No, no, no, there's stage props. There were like giant

56:42

crickets. Giant crickets. Just on the stage.

56:44

So we were gonna walk out to the sound

56:46

of literal crickets. That would have cost like a quarter of a

56:48

million dollars. So ridiculous. I can't

56:50

imagine being a... It's so ridiculous. Can

56:52

you imagine being the producers on that show and the

56:54

artist telling you, okay, we want literal dead

56:56

air with crickets. These take crickets?

56:59

So we walk out. We walk out. Those

57:01

people don't even know what a cricket is. And

57:03

the producer, we're

57:05

doing the show or whatever. And I look

57:08

over at the producer and he was like, just, he turned

57:10

white. He's like, I'm gonna get fired

57:12

for this. You

57:14

keep giving us these great moments, right? Oh, we got a

57:16

song. Like how many times we hung out. And it's like, we got

57:18

a song. Where's the album? It's like, oh, we just got a song. Right.

57:21

Oh, we're going on tour. Cool, we got an album. Now

57:23

we're just going on tour. You

57:25

know what I mean? So we know you and we continue to know

57:28

you. So we don't take this for granted. And

57:31

just as an existence. But people-

57:33

I think it should all be events. You know what I mean?

57:35

Like I really- When you put on an album out, it should be

57:37

an event. It shouldn't just be like, ah, if this one misses,

57:39

we're gonna drop another one in six months. To me, for

57:42

our band. You know what I mean? Like I want it to be solid.

57:45

You know what I mean? It's amazing because that- I think that's

57:47

the thing- Solid. Solid. You think

57:49

this is solid. But that's the net thing. No,

57:51

I use solid as the closest thing to being unhappy in

57:53

my life. I go, solid. It's

57:56

solid. Solid. So I'm not

57:58

unhappy. It's solid. This is not a f***ing-

57:59

solid album. This is a crazy,

58:02

I think the thing that works about it exactly

58:04

what Pete just said, like there's a magic

58:07

to it where you're trying to make events

58:09

and I'm trying to like, I'm like,

58:11

if this is the last one we ever do, you know,

58:14

before they before they fire me, you know, like, so

58:16

it's like the combination of that, like,

58:18

you know, that like pressure on both

58:21

sides, you know, I just,

58:23

whatever it is, you may never

58:25

fully understand it. We may never get to

58:27

the bottom of it, no matter how many hours we spend talking

58:29

about it, but when we hear it, it's in full

58:32

evidence and it really is on this album

58:34

and there's so much going on here that people

58:36

are going to love and you know, the whole feel

58:38

by rhyme and things makes total. Everything

58:41

just feels right for the future. And that's

58:43

the thing I'm most excited about for you is that I

58:45

think, you know, okay,

58:47

we know what it feels like to play in Open Air Stadium again.

58:49

That was fun. Okay. We now have arguably

58:51

our biggest, most cohesive, ambitious sounding album

58:53

for a very long time done. That's fun. Oh,

58:56

we're on a label now that is a legacy label and

58:58

no one's going to call time on us a ramen. So

59:00

that's cool. Dude, it was so interesting

59:03

before we... You sort of built a perfect environment for

59:05

yourself. Yeah. Before we re-signed with

59:07

Fuel by

59:09

Johnny, minority, a guy that we've known for 20 years who

59:12

was, you know, from the same little scene as us,

59:14

he would like text me, you

59:16

know, once a week, once every two weeks, he was like,

59:19

you guys out of your deal? You want to go have lunch?

59:21

Do you want to... Smart. It's Patrick,

59:23

you know? Smart. It's

59:25

cool to be back at that home again.

59:28

It's also really weird

59:30

when we say, I don't know how to quantify it

59:32

for people, but like Johnny was at like, you

59:34

know, when we would play like this, you know,

59:37

a coffee place, you know? Well,

59:39

what's beautiful about the fact that he's reaching out to you now?

59:41

He still cares. He still fucking cares.

59:44

He's still thinking about how can I get closer

59:47

to the guys? How

59:48

can I get back in their world? It's

59:50

all the cool that he's just reaching out. I remember we were talking

59:52

about the times in like 2010 or

59:54

whatever where it was like heady times. I was trying to be an adult

59:56

again. I actually texted my

59:58

manager and was like, do people

59:59

email each other because

1:00:02

I just wasn't

1:00:02

getting any emails and he was

1:00:05

like yeah I think maybe

1:00:07

they don't you know

1:00:09

that's maybe the saddest question anybody could

1:00:11

ever ask anybody at that point in their life. That

1:00:13

was sad

1:00:14

man. Does anybody or two friends still play together? Hey

1:00:16

is that a thing that they still do? This is a weird question

1:00:18

but was there like a global outrage on the email

1:00:20

server over the last I don't know six months? Have

1:00:24

you gotten like zero emails or is it just

1:00:26

me? Yeah

1:00:30

man

1:00:30

love you guys thanks for thanks for thanks

1:00:33

for over delivering. Thanks man it's

1:00:35

cool to dig in deep with you. Yeah good to see ya. Yeah

1:00:37

well let's continue. We're still here.

1:00:42

Make sure you follow the Zane Lowe interview series

1:00:44

to hear more conversations like that one

1:00:46

that just took place with Patrick Stump and Pete

1:00:48

Wentz and guess what Zane will be back next week.

1:00:51

Take care.