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to Trauma Therapist network.com to find

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a trauma therapist near you. Today.

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I a node.com with code podcast. Therapy.

1:30

Champ I guess. Episode Four

1:33

sixteen: This

1:35

is the Therapy Cat podcast

1:37

with Laura Regen Lcs wc.

1:39

The information shared in his

1:41

podcast is not a substitute

1:43

for seeking help them a

1:46

license Mental Health professional. And

1:49

now here's your host,

1:51

Laura. Red M L C S

1:53

W C. Hi,

2:10

welcome back to therapy chat. I'm your

2:12

host, Laura Reagan, and oh my

2:15

gosh, I have so much to say, but not

2:17

a lot of time to say it in. So

2:19

I'm just going to give you

2:21

a quick introduction to this week's episode,

2:24

tell you a little bit about our

2:26

guests and what's going on lately

2:29

as we're in mid January

2:31

here in Maryland. We

2:33

had our first snow of the winter and

2:36

threw everything off. This

2:38

week has been full of

2:41

surprises, like very

2:44

suddenly realizing that I was getting

2:46

the opportunity to interview Peter Levine,

2:48

which happened yesterday. He's the

2:51

developer of somatic experiencing. And

2:54

oh my gosh, that was an

2:57

amazing, beautiful conversation. So

2:59

rich and so vulnerable. And

3:01

I can't wait to share that with you. And

3:05

the theme of it, which goes

3:07

along with a theme of conversations

3:09

that I've been having lately with

3:11

more and more people

3:14

is that by living

3:17

our most authentic lives and showing up

3:19

as we really are with all of

3:21

our wounding as wounded healers, we

3:24

help the world more. And

3:27

that's a belief that

3:29

is finally sinking into

3:31

my truth that it's

3:34

not what I've been

3:36

through and the wounds I

3:38

carry and the ways that my

3:41

life has been shaped by those experiences is

3:43

not something to be ashamed

3:45

of. It's something to

3:47

embrace and by being open

3:50

about it, not in

3:52

sharing graphic details, what

3:54

people call trauma porn, not that. Just

3:57

speaking honestly about the struggles.

4:00

and the triumphs of

4:02

life and the healing journey

4:04

for others to understand that

4:07

it's possible. It's really

4:09

important. And that's

4:11

what Peter Levine and I were talking

4:13

about yesterday. And that's what

4:15

Jenny Hughes, my guest today, and

4:18

I have been talking about. I

4:20

also talked about this with my

4:22

friend Dr. Sarah Poldmay this week

4:24

for her podcast, as well as

4:27

my friend Dr. Cherie Lindberg for

4:29

her podcast. So I'm

4:32

so lifted by the

4:35

connection with others who are on

4:37

the same path and

4:40

stepping out of the traditional

4:42

mindset of don't talk about things,

4:45

be independent, handle

4:47

everything yourself. You're on

4:50

this journey of life alone because we're not

4:52

and we're not meant to be. So

4:55

I'm like wiping tears because talking

4:58

about this feels so moving

5:01

to me. So

5:03

before I tell you about my

5:05

wonderful guest for today's episode, Dr. Jenny

5:07

Hughes, who many of you may already

5:09

know of, I want to just give

5:12

you a tiny bit of information about other things

5:14

that are going on right now. If

5:16

you get my emails, you see I sent

5:19

a newsletter yesterday with

5:22

updates on what I've been doing and where

5:24

I'll be. And I'm

5:26

inviting people who

5:28

are part of my community to meet in

5:30

person. If you subscribe to my email list,

5:33

you can see we have

5:35

a couple of opportunities coming up in,

5:38

first of all, be in Florida next week. I'll

5:41

be in Baltimore this weekend. So

5:43

by the time you hear this, it may be

5:45

too late, but it's in

5:48

the newsletter. Jamie Marich is

5:50

coming to Owings Mills. I mentioned this

5:53

in last week's episode and doing

5:55

a free talk on trauma and the

5:57

12 steps, which is Jamie's powerful.

6:00

work and some of their

6:02

much amazing powerful work. My

6:04

cat's weighing in. I don't know

6:06

if you can hear him in the background. I know

6:09

it's familiar. His voice is familiar to many of

6:11

you, but also there

6:13

will be an opportunity to get together

6:15

for community members who are on the

6:18

West Coast in February when

6:20

I'm going to be visiting there to

6:22

do some wonderful things

6:24

that I can't wait for. I do

6:27

want to let you know, though, Therapy

6:29

Chat, this podcast is

6:32

a finalist for an

6:34

award at the

6:37

She Podcasts Unplugged event,

6:40

the Podcasting Conference, She Podcasts

6:43

Unplugged, which is next week

6:45

in Orlando. I'll be

6:47

there for that and for

6:49

Podfest, which is immediately afterwards.

6:52

Whether or not Therapy Chat ends up winning,

6:55

it's such an honor to be a finalist for

6:57

the Good Samaritan Award because the

7:00

idea of the Good Samaritan Award is someone

7:02

who has taken their podcast and used it

7:04

to try to help make the

7:06

world a better place. It seems

7:08

to fit. That's what we're doing

7:11

here with Therapy Chat. I didn't

7:13

know why I started this podcast initially. I

7:15

didn't know what was driving me to do

7:17

it, but I now realize it's because I

7:19

really wanted to get information out to

7:22

as many people as possible about trauma

7:25

and healing and the alternative

7:28

approaches to healing trauma

7:30

that are less well known, but

7:33

much more powerful than a

7:35

lot of the traditional talk therapy

7:38

approaches that we're most familiar

7:40

with or that the general public has

7:42

heard about the most. So I

7:45

just wanted to thank all of

7:48

you listeners and all

7:50

of the guests who have been part

7:52

of Therapy Chat and Pete, the

7:54

wonderful editor who makes Therapy Chat what it

7:56

is, makes it sound how it does. as

8:00

well as Andrew who

8:03

supports Trauma Therapist Network. And

8:05

again, Trauma Therapist Network couldn't run without

8:07

Andrew. He works full time just

8:09

to do all the customer service and back

8:11

end work of Trauma Therapist Network. It's

8:14

not a tiny side project. It's a

8:16

major program that requires a

8:18

lot of work. So it's

8:20

a gift and an honor to be able

8:22

to deliver a way for people to learn

8:24

more about trauma and how it shows up

8:26

in our lives and find a trauma therapist, which

8:28

is why I created Trauma Therapist Network. But

8:32

it's also a gift and an honor to be

8:34

able to gather with therapists in

8:36

Trauma Therapist Network and support each

8:38

other. We had a beautiful case

8:40

consultation call yesterday where

8:42

our members were sharing about experiences

8:44

that are so resonant to all

8:46

of us therapists, but

8:48

people don't talk about. So with

8:52

that in mind, I want you to know that if

8:54

you are on the waiting list for Trauma

8:56

Therapist Network membership, so if you're a therapist

8:58

who's wanted to join Trauma Therapist Network, I'm

9:01

not doing a big launch right now. I'm

9:03

not doing a public launch, but if you're

9:05

already on the waiting list, then you'll

9:07

be receiving an email Friday,

9:10

the 19th of January, to

9:13

invite you to join us at

9:15

2023 prices. This

9:17

is just for the waiting list. And if

9:20

you're a trauma therapist who wants to get on the waiting list, you

9:22

still can. Just go

9:24

to go.traumatherapistnetwork.com, slash

9:27

join, add your name

9:29

to the waiting list, and then we'll send you the registration

9:31

link. So I wanted you to

9:33

know about that in case Trauma Therapist Network membership

9:35

is something that you've been wanting to

9:38

be part of or waiting to be part of,

9:40

we're excited to welcome many new members in. Let

9:44

me go on and tell you about

9:46

my guest today for this episode, which

9:48

is all about the importance of connection

9:51

and how therapists

9:53

can really be valuable to

9:56

one another as

9:58

friends, colleagues, and connections. Even

10:00

though we typically are so busy working

10:03

back to back to back to back to clients,

10:05

we often don't even look up and see what's happening

10:07

around us or who's around us to

10:10

know that we have support right there with

10:12

some of the most compassionate, wise,

10:14

caring people who really know

10:17

how to be supportive in

10:20

a moment of struggle. So it's

10:22

kind of like, look around, you

10:24

have support, it's there.

10:27

We forget that. That's why I

10:29

made Trauma Therapist Network membership community,

10:31

is because we all were

10:34

feeling so isolated. And

10:36

Jenny, my guest today, Dr.

10:38

Jenny Hughes, is a licensed

10:40

clinical psychologist specializing in the treatment of

10:42

trauma and PTSD. And

10:45

as a clinician, she practices

10:47

EMDR, CPT, and PE. Jenny

10:50

has published a workbook designed for clients to

10:52

use on their own or with their therapist

10:54

called the PTSD Recovery Workbook. Through her

10:56

clinical work, Jenny's been able to also support

10:59

helpers and healers through the

11:01

common experience of vicarious trauma, something

11:03

that I've talked about for a

11:05

long time on therapy chat. As

11:07

the founder of the Brave Trauma Therapist Collective,

11:09

Jenny helps trauma therapists go from feeling

11:12

drained and demoralized to

11:14

energized and empowered. Members of Brave work

11:16

with Jenny to become more aware of how to

11:18

identify and overcome vicarious trauma,

11:20

allowing them to thrive in

11:23

their professional and personal lives.

11:25

So I hope you will enjoy this beautiful, connected

11:28

conversation between Jenny and I. She's

11:30

become a friend. And

11:33

we talked about how our friendship

11:35

developed and some of the points

11:38

of fear and isolation that

11:40

caused me to not connect

11:43

at first. So I

11:45

hope you'll enjoy this conversation and

11:47

think about how you can connect

11:50

with others in your community. If

11:52

you are a therapist, there

11:55

are places where you can find

11:57

support and connection, including to... Jenny's

12:00

community, brave, as well

12:02

as trauma therapist network. And if

12:05

you are not a therapist, look around

12:07

you. Who is in your circle?

12:10

Who are your supports? If

12:12

you don't have people who are willing

12:14

to be open and

12:17

be supportive in the way that you need,

12:20

there are ways to find them. There are

12:23

people out there looking for connection just like

12:25

you are. And many

12:27

ways to find them. Support

12:29

groups, meetup groups, social

12:33

sports leagues, online communities,

12:36

virtual and in-person women's

12:38

circles, men's circles,

12:41

men's groups. I'm gonna

12:44

be interviewing another colleague and

12:46

friend, Jeremy Moeller, who

12:48

specializes in helping men get

12:51

connected to their emotional lives

12:53

in the ways that patriarchy

12:56

has prevented them from doing or

12:58

forced them to suppress, which

13:01

I feel is a major problem in our

13:03

culture and our world. And

13:06

I'm grateful to Jeremy for what he's doing

13:08

to try to change that. He

13:10

uses IFS and he's a mindfulness teacher.

13:12

So he has a really cool

13:15

perspective, but he's also just an interesting

13:17

and creative person. So I just

13:20

subscribed to his sub-stack today and I'm looking

13:22

forward to sharing his perspective

13:25

here on the podcast. And

13:28

when you hear from Peter Levine, you're gonna be amazed.

13:31

Maybe you won't, but in

13:33

my mind, to hear from

13:35

a man of my father's

13:37

generation, a white man, sharing

13:39

vulnerably about his trauma and

13:41

healing journey and

13:43

expressing emotion, even

13:46

tearing up on

13:48

video, on audio, this man who is

13:50

like a leader

13:52

in the trauma and

13:55

somatic field, who has

13:57

done so much for 50 years. and

14:00

really moved our field forward in such

14:03

an important way was brave

14:05

enough to open up about

14:08

some of the pain that he's been through

14:10

and some of the things that he's experienced

14:12

that some people might be like really surprised

14:14

by. So that will be

14:16

coming soon. And I've got so many

14:18

other incredible interviews lined up and

14:21

already banked to share with you

14:23

for this coming year. Making

14:26

some changes with therapy chat in

14:28

case you haven't heard, all episodes going

14:30

forward will be video and audio format. People

14:32

have been asking for this for years

14:34

and we've been trying, but it takes a

14:37

lot of work to do the video

14:39

editing and stuff. And thankfully

14:41

Pete again comes in

14:43

clutch and is making

14:45

that happen for us. So you can

14:47

find Dr. Marielle Bouquet's interview

14:50

now live on YouTube in

14:52

video format as well as

14:55

my recent interview with Brooke Randolph. I

14:58

interview with Dr. Shafali from earlier this

15:00

year is up there as well. And

15:03

they're being released gradually.

15:06

Some of the Linda Tai videos are now

15:08

up on YouTube and some will be up

15:10

later. So I think this

15:12

is a positive development

15:14

for therapy chat. Sometimes it's nice

15:16

to just see the conversation. Other

15:18

times you wanna hear. So

15:21

we are happy to have another way for

15:23

you to take in

15:25

this information and be able to make

15:28

it accessible to as many people as

15:31

possible. So as always, thank

15:33

you for listening to therapy chat. If you're

15:35

not on my email list, the

15:37

link is in the show notes to subscribe and

15:40

you can get the free download five mistakes

15:42

that people make when searching for a trauma

15:45

therapist. And I appreciate

15:47

you, take care. Hi,

15:52

welcome back to therapy chat. I'm

15:55

your host, Laura Reagan. And today I'm so

15:57

happy to be speaking again.

15:59

Although it will be the first time

16:02

for you listeners to hear with

16:04

my friend and colleague, Dr. Jenny

16:06

Hughes. Jenny, thank you so much

16:08

for coming to Therapy Chat today. Thank

16:11

you for having me. I am so excited

16:13

to be here and just to connect. Me

16:15

too. Because

16:19

I always don't hide my failures,

16:21

I want to say that you took

16:23

the time to be interviewed by

16:25

me before and at the time. I

16:28

don't know. I don't know what my headspace

16:30

was, but it just wasn't quite right. And I

16:32

said, Jenny, I don't feel like I can release

16:34

this. Even though we had a great

16:36

conversation, but I feel like we've gotten

16:39

to know each other a lot better and it

16:41

just feels a lot more resonant to talk with

16:43

you now. So I know that our audience is

16:45

going to find this discussion very

16:47

valuable because we're talking about

16:50

receiving support, accepting support

16:52

and the challenge of

16:54

connecting when you're

16:57

struggling and all

16:59

of that while being a trauma therapist. So

17:02

before we get into that topic, let's just

17:04

start off by you telling our audience a

17:06

little more about who you are and all

17:08

of the amazing things that you do. So

17:11

I am a psychologist

17:14

and I was originally

17:16

thought I was going to be a child psychologist

17:18

and was trained in that way. I've always done

17:21

trauma work and I'm trained all the way down

17:23

to zero actually in working with babies who have

17:25

experienced trauma and loss and things like that. Now

17:28

in my clinical work, I primarily work with

17:30

adults though, which was a shift

17:32

that I never anticipated, but has

17:35

opened up a lot of new

17:37

experiences and avenues for me. And

17:40

so I see primarily adults in my

17:42

practice who have experienced trauma and PTSD.

17:45

And then I also will be talking

17:47

more about this, but since COVID since

17:49

the pandemic found that I really, it

17:52

was really important to me to support

17:54

other trauma therapists. And so I also

17:56

create community for trauma therapists and find

17:58

ways where we. can

18:00

connect and share what it's like to

18:02

do this work, how much we love

18:04

it, and also to overcome any

18:07

of kind of the difficulties and help to

18:09

share the weight of what it's like to

18:11

be a trauma therapist. So

18:14

one thing you didn't say when you were just introducing yourself

18:16

is, where do you practice?

18:18

Yeah, so I live in

18:20

Houston, Texas, and most of

18:22

my clients are in Texas, but

18:25

as a psychologist, we're really fortunate

18:27

that we have Sci-Pac, which allows

18:29

us to practice telehealth in any

18:31

participating states. So I actually see

18:33

folks all over the country. I

18:36

have people in

18:38

Minnesota, in Colorado, so

18:42

mostly in Texas, but I am able

18:44

to serve a larger kind of

18:46

area because of that. That's

18:49

great. You know, I was

18:51

just talking with someone today about how

18:53

there are very

18:55

few trauma therapists in places

18:57

like Idaho

18:59

and North Dakota and,

19:03

you know, Wyoming, just places where there's lower

19:06

population numbers and less

19:09

availability of trauma therapy, but there's no,

19:11

I sure, I am sure there's

19:13

no less needs, so it's great that you can, I don't

19:16

know which states specifically

19:18

are covered by Sci-Pac, but

19:20

there's actually a lot now, and it's so

19:22

true. I right now am

19:25

working with a colleague who is helping

19:27

to set up training for child parent

19:29

psychotherapy in a lot of those states,

19:32

and because of just the immense need

19:34

for providers and for

19:37

highly skilled providers, right, and being

19:39

able to practice via telehealth, even

19:41

doing things like child parent psychotherapy,

19:43

which is for zero to five,

19:46

since COVID, there have been some

19:48

really, really cool adaptations and

19:50

just ingenuity and creativity that came

19:53

out of it to be able to serve

19:55

people via telehealth who

19:57

we might not think it would be

19:59

the best mode of delivery,

20:01

but that actually can be super,

20:04

super effective and really supportive of

20:06

our clients too. That's great. And

20:08

I think just because you brought

20:10

up child parent psychotherapy, you're trained in

20:13

that, right? Yeah.

20:16

And that's Alicia Lieberman's work? Mm-hmm. Mainly for

20:18

children with... Yeah, I was trained with Joy

20:21

Ossofsky at LSU. So

20:23

she, Alicia Lieberman created CPP

20:25

and then folks like Joy

20:28

Ossofsky, Charlie Zina, a lot

20:30

of those folks were really

20:33

like the spearheads of infant

20:35

mental health. Awesome. And

20:38

isn't CPP, I know one of

20:40

the ways that it's beneficial

20:42

is for children who've been exposed to

20:44

domestic violence, which is a really important

20:47

work to do because in my

20:50

experience so often survivors,

20:52

adult survivors of domestic

20:54

violence think that their

20:56

children weren't impacted because

20:58

they weren't maybe

21:01

directly physically harmed, but

21:03

working with adults who witnessed

21:06

domestic violence in childhood whose

21:08

parents never even necessarily knew

21:10

that they knew, it's deeply

21:13

impactful. Yeah. And

21:15

that's where CPP started. The first manual was

21:17

called Don't Hit My Mommy. And

21:19

now it really can be

21:22

used with any kind of traumatic experience

21:24

that a young child has. And

21:27

there are even adaptations of it.

21:29

There's infant parent psychotherapy. There

21:32

are protocols for teachers to help

21:34

teachers implement things, some of the

21:36

components of CPP. And

21:40

it's just such a powerful intervention.

21:42

It's really more of a psychodynamic

21:44

approach to trauma work because it's

21:46

all about the parent-child relationship. So

21:50

I think one of the greatest things about it is

21:52

it's not only about helping the child heal,

21:55

but it also helps the parent

21:57

or caregiver heal. It is so

21:59

powerful. powerful for the adults that are

22:01

coming because they have to attend the

22:03

sessions with the child. And so they are

22:06

also receiving the healing, which I think is

22:08

just something that is

22:10

really unique in the space of

22:12

working with kids and families. Yes,

22:15

that's beautiful. And I just

22:18

thank you for explaining that. I know that wasn't

22:20

exactly what we were intending to focus on now,

22:22

but I just wanted to ask. And

22:25

it's an example of how trauma

22:27

work is so you said

22:31

you mentioned the need for

22:33

highly skilled therapists trauma work

22:35

is such highly skilled

22:37

work. It's so complex.

22:39

There's so many aspects

22:42

of it, layers, different

22:44

ways to approach it.

22:47

And I just want to sort

22:49

of name that for people who are doing

22:51

trauma work. You are doing

22:54

some really important, valuable

22:57

and challenging just in terms of like

23:00

knowledge and the presence that you have

23:02

to bring. So I just wanted to

23:04

give us all a shout out for

23:06

that. Pat on the back. Absolutely.

23:08

Yeah. I mean, the space holding that

23:10

is required of a trauma therapist is

23:13

immense. Yes. So

23:15

that's really sort of what we wanted to

23:17

talk about today is being

23:19

a trauma therapist and you

23:22

know, and listeners who've heard

23:24

the show before today also know that

23:26

I've gone through a lot

23:28

of grief. I actually talked about on my

23:31

end of the year episode that really

23:33

I've been going through a lot of grief for about four

23:35

years. But last spring,

23:38

we were communicating when I had

23:40

just lost a family member and

23:42

I was having a very different

23:45

experience of grief in my

23:47

adult life, but it was bringing up

23:49

all my old grief too. Well,

23:51

and at the same time, I

23:54

was also, it was, it was, I

23:57

don't like the term anniversary when it comes

23:59

to the things like this. Yeah, but I

24:01

haven't always found the greatest replacement. But

24:03

anyway, it was the third anniversary

24:05

of my own father's passing.

24:09

And I was pregnant and I had

24:11

COVID and he had died of COVID

24:13

right at the beginning of the pandemic.

24:17

And I don't even remember how we

24:19

started talking that day, Laura, to look

24:22

back at the messages. But

24:24

it was just this incredible, for

24:27

me, it was exactly what

24:29

I needed, because I was

24:32

able to connect with someone like

24:34

you who is an incredibly and

24:36

highly skilled trauma therapist, who

24:39

just held space for me in

24:41

a way that I don't think you even realized that you were

24:44

doing. And like

24:46

I said before we started recording, it allowed

24:48

me to go through truly the beginning, middle

24:51

and end of the grief

24:53

experience that I was having on that

24:55

day of that anniversary that I

24:57

don't know that I would have been able

25:00

to move through it to its completion, not

25:02

the grief ever ends. But in that moment,

25:04

there was a beginning, middle and end. I

25:06

don't know that I would have been able

25:08

to move through that if it hadn't been

25:10

for our connection that day.

25:12

And the way that we were talking

25:15

to each other, which is unique

25:17

to I think therapists in the

25:19

way that we can talk to each other. Yeah,

25:21

I think that was something that is

25:24

important to point out. When you think

25:26

about being a therapist,

25:30

we are highly skilled

25:32

at focusing on someone

25:34

else and not

25:36

focusing on ourselves. It's a gift we

25:39

brought into this field.

25:43

And then we learned to do it even better

25:45

while we were being

25:48

educated, slash how to

25:50

dissociate. And if we didn't

25:52

already know. And then that

25:56

is, I feel like I

26:00

don't know. You could look at it many ways,

26:02

but if you had a childhood where

26:04

you had to suppress your feelings and then you go

26:07

into a field where you're exposed to all

26:09

this pain and then you spend all of

26:11

your time suppressing your feelings and

26:13

you don't have some way to

26:16

receive the same kind of support

26:18

that you're giving and I think it's therapy

26:21

is wonderful and definitely needed,

26:24

but that's one hour a week. Like

26:26

how do we surround ourselves

26:29

and make, allow ourselves

26:32

to receive the support

26:34

of other caring people

26:36

when we're so used

26:38

to denying

26:40

having needs? Yeah, denying

26:43

our own needs and then coming

26:45

into a field and a

26:48

specialty where there are these implicit

26:50

and explicit messages that we're supposed

26:52

to have all of our shit together

26:54

because we're therapists. We must be perfect. There

26:56

must be nothing wrong with us because we've done all the

26:59

work and figured it all out and

27:01

then we came into this field with problems

27:03

or our own baggage, then

27:06

we're going to do harm to

27:08

someone else. I got that message

27:10

very clearly. Yeah, exactly. And so

27:13

then we have to, you know, we're always

27:15

like on edge of like, what are people

27:17

going to think about me or assume about me

27:19

or am I going to be

27:22

found out because I'm affected by

27:24

this case or because I'm experiencing

27:26

my own grief reactions while also

27:28

helping other people process their trauma

27:30

or their grief, you know, and

27:32

it's incredibly

27:34

isolating. And we,

27:36

I think that there

27:38

are a few spaces where there's permission to be able

27:41

to talk about all of those things safely without us

27:43

feeling like our jobs or our licenses

27:45

or our careers are threatened. Yeah,

27:48

and I will say that I'm

27:51

sure you've noticed this because we're in some of

27:53

the same therapist Facebook groups, but

27:56

people will post some kind of

27:58

question and they'll usually they're being because

28:01

they're afraid of being attacked or shamed

28:04

for whatever they're expressing that they

28:06

don't know about or a vulnerable

28:09

emotion that they're trying to get some

28:11

support with. And people are

28:13

like, anyone could know who you are

28:15

from this. Your client

28:18

could find them, you know, there's just

28:20

so much judgment and criticism and demand

28:23

for perfection that we do

28:25

to each other, I think out of fear. It's been

28:28

hammered into us. And then we

28:30

just perpetuate it onto each

28:32

other and those who come after us in the

28:35

field, which is very harmful. Yep.

28:38

And, you know, like we were talking about earlier

28:40

to Laura, neither of us

28:42

really. Well, so for me, and

28:45

then for you in different ways, but for

28:47

me, like I had kept my relationship so

28:49

separate. Like I had my friends and my

28:51

family, and then I had like my life

28:54

as a therapist. Right. And

28:56

there was very little overlap. I

28:58

really didn't have any friends who

29:00

were also therapists, a couple from

29:02

internship, because that's like, you're like

29:04

really going through that together. Yeah,

29:07

exactly. But that was

29:09

it. And I felt

29:12

like I had to be defended in that

29:14

way. Because if things from

29:16

my past were found out or,

29:18

you know, whatever it might be,

29:20

I really was afraid of what

29:22

would happen to my career. And

29:24

when COVID happened, and we

29:27

all, you know, isolated even more,

29:29

it was kind of

29:31

more out of my, again, need to like

29:34

help and give and take care.

29:36

But I saw I was

29:38

asked to help create programming for like

29:40

frontline workers, nurses and doctors and things

29:42

like that at one of our hospitals

29:45

here. And that's something that

29:47

I had done prior in a different role.

29:49

And I was happy to do that. And I

29:52

was like, wait, who's taking care of all of

29:54

the mental health providers that I'm getting together to

29:56

support these nurses and these doctors. And

29:58

that set me on a course of then having

30:01

new battle buddies kind of in

30:03

therapists of learning how to do

30:05

these kinds of things and in

30:07

growing together and that being able

30:09

to develop those relationships, those friendships

30:12

with fellow therapists has been one

30:14

of the most healing things in

30:16

the past few years because

30:19

we can talk about things in such different

30:21

ways and we're not therapists each other but

30:23

we understand that we don't have to fix

30:25

everything that we can take

30:28

deep dives and we can analyze things in

30:31

safe ways and in supportive ways which

30:34

are not conversations that we can have kind

30:36

of like with our friends or family members

30:39

who are not in this field and it's

30:41

been really healing for me to be able

30:43

to connect with therapists in a new way

30:45

like that. I agree and one thing that

30:47

we were talking about before we started

30:50

recording, you mentioned how therapists

30:53

are people who are comfortable

30:55

going deep and I know

30:57

for myself that I find it

30:59

very unsatisfying to communicate with people

31:01

about really surface things. It's

31:04

like but what about what's really going on

31:06

you know that's how I feel and that

31:09

again probably comes from

31:11

a childhood of things being brushed

31:13

under the rug and not spoken

31:15

about secrets and a sense that

31:17

something's really happening that people aren't

31:19

talking about that makes you feel

31:22

really uncomfortable so your radar

31:24

for that is like heightened plus

31:27

the fact that for myself the friends that

31:29

I surround myself with in my life outside

31:32

of work have you

31:34

know similar relational dynamics to the people

31:36

I grew up with. So

31:39

you know they don't like to talk about stuff

31:41

and I'm like choosing people who

31:43

don't like to talk about stuff and then I'm like

31:45

this is so unsatisfying they won't talk about stuff.

31:50

And then repeating you know

31:53

so mysterious and

31:56

that's like just that as an example

31:58

like if we were talking And I was saying,

32:00

oh, I'm so frustrated. My friend won't open up, you

32:03

know, and you're a therapist friend. You might say, yeah,

32:05

does that remind you of anything from when you were

32:07

going, you know, like just gently

32:09

showing something in a,

32:11

in a non-threatening

32:14

way. Like, have

32:16

you noticed a pattern? You know, I

32:18

wonder if there's anything that you could

32:20

do differently, not to therapies,

32:22

but to support,

32:24

just be like offering

32:26

a perspective. So therapists

32:29

know how to talk to

32:31

people, sensitively hold the intensity

32:33

and allow

32:36

the feelings to be there. And I think

32:39

that was what happened in our interaction. It,

32:41

it absolutely did. And, you

32:43

know, I can still see a

32:45

lot of images from that day. And

32:48

I remember being in my

32:50

room and like, I mean, full on

32:54

COVID, right? And so I'm just like

32:56

in my room, isolating. And

32:58

my husband and my, my, she

33:00

was two at that point, my

33:02

daughter were out making a birthday cake

33:04

for my dad because we make a birthday cake for

33:06

him every year, cause he died six days before his

33:08

75th birthday. And

33:12

I was, I was a mess in

33:14

my room and my pajamas curled up in

33:16

bed. And it was

33:18

the exact cathartic mess relief and

33:21

relief that I needed to have. And

33:24

you held space for it and didn't need to

33:26

change any of it. And

33:28

we're able to put words to it and

33:30

allow me to be seen even just through,

33:32

we were just messaging on messenger. Like it

33:34

was, I was just reading your words and

33:36

no one else could,

33:38

could talk to me like that on

33:41

that day, you know, not because they're

33:43

deficient, but just because they

33:45

don't have that skillset. They don't

33:47

have also, I mean, it takes a

33:49

lot of courage to hold space for people and

33:52

a lot of bravery to know that it's

33:54

okay for people to move through the beginning,

33:57

middle and end of those big feelings. And

34:00

that's really a scary thing unless

34:02

you can lean into it and

34:04

trust that it's going to be healing.

34:07

Yeah, it is vulnerable to

34:10

hold space for someone and

34:13

to take a chance on talking about the

34:15

thing that could be unpleasant that

34:17

the other person might not want to talk about.

34:19

I think that's why we avoid so often in

34:22

our regular lives, you know, oh, maybe

34:25

I shouldn't mention that I know today is the

34:27

day that their dad passed away. But

34:30

to me, I'm that friend who's like, hey,

34:32

I know it's today's an

34:35

important day and I'm just thinking of you

34:37

because I want that from people. I want

34:39

people to know, not read

34:41

my mind, but just to care about what matters

34:43

to me. And therapist

34:46

friends are perfectly suited

34:48

for that because, and

34:50

really trauma therapist friends,

34:52

especially because we understand

34:54

what our work is like. We

34:57

understand the real pain

34:59

that people go through and

35:01

then we understand that

35:03

it's okay to feel that and that

35:05

it can get better and it doesn't

35:07

have to be avoided. You

35:10

know? Yeah. And

35:12

that by being able to move through

35:14

that, that there is light there on

35:16

the other end. And

35:19

you know, I mean, for me, I

35:21

talk a lot about vicarious resilience

35:23

and that ability to soak up all

35:26

of the glimmers that we get to

35:28

notice and experience with our clients and

35:30

in our work. And

35:32

oftentimes the greatest glimmers are at the

35:34

end of that really dark tunnel. And

35:38

there's glimmers along the way too, but like

35:40

in EMDR, a lot of times we use

35:43

this metaphor of being on a train and

35:45

you just have to, that's where the phrase like go

35:48

with that comes from. You just have to

35:50

go with it and you have to watch kind of what's happening. And

35:53

there's another metaphor that we'll use if someone

35:55

is really experiencing just a

35:57

lot of emotion, maybe when we're

36:00

processing, always the client has

36:02

the control and they can

36:04

always stop. And

36:06

sometimes we'll talk to them about, you know, we

36:09

can't stop, but then we're stopping in the middle

36:11

of the tunnel. And we might have to actually

36:13

start back at the beginning of the tunnel. And

36:15

somehow we got to get through the

36:17

tunnel to the other side. And

36:20

so being able to see that process and

36:22

then emerge on the other side of that

36:25

tunnel is incredible, but

36:27

it takes a lot of bravery

36:29

and space holding and silence sometimes.

36:32

I notice for me with clients when I

36:35

want to talk a lot, I'm like, okay,

36:37

shut up, Jenny. It's

36:40

my own nerves and sometimes adrenaline and

36:42

the desire to fix things. And

36:47

I'm like, just stop. And

36:52

hold that space because that's where so much healing happens.

36:54

And then we can pick up that vicarious

36:56

resilience. Beautiful. And what they

36:58

say in brain spotting is wait, why

37:00

am I talking? You

37:03

know, I love that. Shut

37:06

up, Jenny. But I

37:08

get what you mean. And

37:14

you know, I love what you said about

37:16

the tunnel because this is so synchronistic

37:19

that I also talked about that at my

37:21

end of year episode, just like two weeks

37:23

ago, that when you are

37:26

in that place where you're getting

37:28

closer and closer to that painful

37:30

material, it's so

37:32

dark and it is a

37:34

tunnel. And it's like it feels like

37:36

a tunnel, but you don't necessarily know

37:39

that there's an end to it. It

37:41

can just feel like you're going into a black

37:43

place. It's an endless black hole.

37:46

And really it's a path. And

37:49

you know, around that bend up ahead,

37:51

there's a tiny bit of light, you know,

37:54

and you're going to eventually see it if you

37:56

can trust yourself and

37:58

the therapeutic process. to

38:00

keep going, not

38:04

to override your

38:07

system telling you it's too much, it

38:09

doesn't feel safe, but to

38:11

trust that if you keep going that there is an

38:13

end there. Right, exactly. And

38:15

I think that

38:18

trust, you know, the therapeutic relationship has

38:20

so much to do with that for

38:22

our clients and same in our personal

38:24

relationships. And

38:26

so, you know, even last April when we

38:29

were messaging, you and I were building trust

38:34

in our relationship. And it

38:36

takes a lot of trust to be

38:38

able to do that kind of work

38:40

in therapy and in our relationships. And,

38:42

you know, back last April, you

38:45

and I were still building trust. And at the

38:47

same time, I think that there's this

38:49

magic in certain relationships and with certain

38:52

people where it's like your brain

38:54

and body just knows that you can fall into it.

38:57

And on that day when my brain and

38:59

body needed to move through all the parts

39:01

of it, the beginning, middle and end, it

39:05

also knew that you were the safe

39:07

person that I could trust to do that

39:09

with. And I think that that

39:12

is a really, really special gift that I received. And I

39:14

do want to thank you for that. Well,

39:16

you're welcome. And I'm, it's

39:19

also, I'm thankful that you received

39:21

that that way. I remember feeling

39:23

very connected when we were communicating.

39:25

I remember thinking, wow, I'm

39:27

really getting to know Jenny now. You know, it

39:29

felt like our relationship was

39:31

developing in that experience. And

39:35

because I remember saying like, now we're friends at

39:37

the end. But I want

39:39

to name too that I was

39:41

in such a vulnerable state. My

39:44

grief reaction was so big and

39:47

I was not willing to disregard

39:49

it, even though I was getting a lot

39:51

of messages from other

39:54

people in our families that, well,

39:56

in my husband's family, that this

39:58

isn't, you know. Nobody wants to see a

40:00

lot of emoting, you know, can you

40:03

and again familiar message from

40:06

my earlier years anyway, but

40:08

because I was refusing to

40:12

not be grieving and I was

40:14

just letting it I was like, I'm not going to

40:16

interrupt this because that's just going to make it worse.

40:19

So I had to let down

40:21

my guard a lot to allow

40:23

the vulnerable question and the, you

40:25

know, to take a chance with someone I really

40:28

didn't know that well and say, I remember

40:30

I asked you your dad's name, you

40:33

know, and then when

40:36

you had the baby sent me a picture

40:38

and everything, it was just, it's like

40:41

that weaving process of

40:43

trust and building trust

40:46

through allowing yourself to

40:48

be vulnerable. Maybe you

40:50

having COVID, you just didn't

40:53

have it to be defended, you know,

40:57

all those walls, all the

40:59

cement fell out of them.

41:01

And that too is a

41:04

gift, right? I know

41:06

for myself that like, we

41:08

always have so much work to do and I

41:10

know that I still have work to do for

41:13

myself around the ways that I guard and protect. My

41:17

own brain and body. And so

41:19

that day of having COVID and

41:22

being pregnant and having it be

41:24

that that third year mark, all

41:27

of those walls were kind of down because

41:29

my resources were tapped. And that's what I

41:31

needed, I think. Right. So

41:33

there's a message about, I mean,

41:37

I always quote

41:39

my therapist and I always have to say that I'm quoting

41:41

him, but it's like, you know,

41:43

it kills

41:46

me to say this, I swear. But

41:48

he's like, allow yourself

41:50

to fall apart. And I'm

41:53

like, no. No, that is

41:56

unacceptable. I have to keep it together

41:58

and just see. my

42:01

reaction to the idea

42:03

of allowing myself to not be

42:05

able to handle everything by myself

42:08

in that hyper individuality that makes

42:10

us think if I have a problem

42:12

it's up to me to figure it out. I

42:15

can figure it out. I've had to figure everything out before.

42:18

Yet we're doing that within

42:21

the context of developmental trauma

42:23

and basically being like a

42:25

child who's wearing adult clothes

42:27

and trying to figure out adult

42:30

problems without the capacity of

42:32

an adult's you know

42:35

perspective because right

42:37

you know it's a black and white well

42:39

let's see my options are give up or

42:42

be a failure you know like well

42:44

come on surely there's more options than that you

42:47

know and when you bring in

42:49

someone else as safe a

42:51

nervous system that can co-regulate with you and

42:53

make it make it

42:56

possible to consider

42:58

other perspectives you know you

43:00

don't have to figure it out yourself and then suddenly

43:02

there's much more availability

43:04

of possibility and

43:07

you realize that you're not alone.

43:09

Yeah exactly and then you do

43:12

get to go through that

43:14

healing process and come

43:16

out on the other side of that tunnel. Exactly

43:19

so let's I

43:21

would like to invite you to say a little bit

43:23

more about that whole beginning middle and end because some

43:26

people might be like but wait what is she exactly referring

43:28

to I need to know about that. Well

43:30

I'm gonna get a little bit psychologisty

43:33

honest for a minute some of it

43:35

comes out of some on a chemical

43:37

level emotions actually only last for about

43:39

60 to 90 seconds. That

43:42

does not mean that that is how we

43:44

experience them because once we

43:46

start to feel sad or mad or

43:48

scared then our brain starts

43:52

going and it's our brain that

43:54

especially the thoughts that we're having and

43:56

the reactions whether they're conscious or not

43:59

that then and keep the

44:01

experience of the emotion happening.

44:04

And one thing that can be really helpful,

44:06

whether it is for us as trauma

44:08

therapists or anyone who's listening, is

44:11

to find ways to allow our brain

44:13

and body to metabolize our emotions and

44:15

to allow them to have their own

44:18

beginning, middle, and end. And

44:20

one exercise that he recommends and that

44:23

I love doing with people is

44:25

a visualization of watching a

44:27

fire burn. And

44:30

the fire is representing your emotion

44:32

or it can be an image

44:34

or a physical sensation, whatever is

44:36

really most prominent for you and it's feeling

44:38

the most distressing. And it

44:41

really is about imagining that thing as

44:43

a fire in front of you and

44:46

watching the fire burn out. We

44:48

can't turn our back on it because

44:50

then some wind can come along and

44:53

spread it, right? We don't wanna

44:55

add more wood to the fire because then

44:57

it's gonna get bigger and bigger. So that

44:59

means we don't wanna avoid it because then

45:01

it can spread. We

45:04

don't wanna be continuing to ruminate on it

45:06

because then it's going to get bigger and

45:08

bigger. When we allow

45:10

that emotion to metabolize in our brain

45:12

and body and trust that our

45:14

brain and body knows what it's doing

45:17

and watch the fire burn out and

45:19

turn into ash, it

45:21

can be a really powerful experience of

45:24

having that beginning, middle, and end. For

45:27

people who are helpers and healers, it can

45:29

be helpful. Let's say we have a really

45:31

tough session or we learned

45:34

about something that was really upsetting that happened

45:36

to a client. And

45:38

when we're trying to release some of that,

45:40

to allow it to not cling at the

45:42

end of that session or the end of

45:44

the day, we can use

45:46

that visualization and listen to our

45:48

brain and body, feel it start

45:50

to kind of decompress and regulate

45:53

as we're watching that fire burn out. Same

45:55

for our own emotions. On that

45:57

day when you and I were messaging, you were kind of...

46:00

of co-regulating with me in that way. So

46:02

I didn't have the resources to do any

46:04

exercise like that. But if I did, that

46:06

could have been something helpful for me to

46:09

check in with the things that were going on in

46:11

my brain and body and to just sit

46:13

with it not to do anything. Just

46:15

watch it burn out. Yeah. So that

46:17

gives us the beginning, middle and ends.

46:20

Yeah. And I feel like what I've

46:22

learned about that is the idea that,

46:24

you know, it's here and

46:26

then it kind of is going to have a

46:28

peak of intensity in the middle. And that's

46:30

usually the point where we try to shut it

46:33

down. So we try to shut it out some

46:35

way, whether it's muscle tension,

46:37

whether it's, I don't want to think

46:39

about this, you know, you're pushing it

46:41

away, you distract yourself, you do something

46:44

else to self soothe. Meanwhile, if we

46:46

could tolerate it when it gets to

46:48

its peak intensity, which usually we need

46:50

someone else's regulating nervous system to help

46:52

us be able to

46:54

tolerate it, what couldn't be tolerated before,

46:57

if it's a trauma reaction,

47:00

then it can go over that

47:02

peak. And then it actually I'll do

47:04

in the camera, it goes up and then

47:06

it goes down and you actually get

47:08

this experience of being able to integrate

47:11

that experience instead of

47:14

it's just stuck and it keeps coming back

47:16

up because it needs to be metabolized, but

47:18

it's never getting to go to completion.

47:21

Yeah, exactly. And that integration

47:23

is where that healing happens.

47:25

And especially when we're able

47:28

to do that in relationship,

47:31

it sinks in even deeper because

47:33

the relationship is turning

47:35

on our attachment system, those

47:38

really primal, really survival parts

47:40

of our brain that also allow

47:42

us drive us to connect with

47:44

people and allow us to then,

47:46

you know, create some of

47:49

those new findings about ourselves as we

47:51

go through these processes. Yes.

47:53

Well, I'm grateful that you

47:55

explained the beginning, middle and end. I think

47:58

that's a really Lovely

48:00

take away from this conversation even though

48:02

it's not our main focus well,

48:06

I think one last thing to talk

48:08

about with that is when we Don't

48:11

have opportunities or where you don't allow

48:13

for that beginning middle and end Our

48:16

baseline might start off down here But

48:18

when we keep avoiding or defending against

48:20

it our baseline keeps going higher and

48:23

higher and higher until it's almost right

48:25

there at the peak anyway, and That

48:28

is where just that chronic

48:30

stress and PTSD and trauma

48:33

thrives and When

48:36

our brain and body start to break down because

48:38

we are so constantly in survival mode But

48:40

our brain is doing that for a reason because

48:42

it's like wait no no no we need to go

48:45

and and We need to

48:47

you know go over the top and then allow

48:49

for the integration so it's gonna be like a

48:51

toddler who's like I need attention I need attention

48:53

and Again

48:55

it comes back to this relationship And

48:57

if we don't have a therapeutic relationship or

48:59

a friend or a family member with whom

49:01

we can go over the edge Then

49:04

unfortunately we get stuck and and we

49:06

can get stuck in that state of survival

49:09

mode whether we're trauma therapist or not

49:12

And if we are a trauma survivor, that's

49:14

probably how we're living quite a lot even

49:16

if we have a really highly effective

49:20

adaptive strategies to Not

49:23

feel it. It's still impacting us

49:26

You know in ways that we don't

49:28

always realize until we begin to have a

49:30

different experience Which that's one

49:32

of the things that you and I have both

49:35

had in the past three years

49:37

since the start of covid You know

49:39

I cannot deny as hard as

49:41

covid the whole you know

49:43

it's still going on obviously I mean people have it

49:46

right now Just

49:48

read that 10,000 people died in the last

49:50

month from covid which I was Like

49:53

wow, you know we're acting like it's all

49:55

nothing but 10,000 people right

49:59

a month So as much

50:01

as it was a very hard,

50:03

intense, painful time, I can't deny

50:06

that it was a deeply transformative

50:08

time for myself. And

50:10

for me, I dove into helping

50:13

like you, I created Trauma Therapist Network,

50:15

and I was like, trauma

50:17

therapists need help, I've got to do

50:19

it, you know, and put

50:22

together this community and then in

50:24

the weekly calls, I'm finding

50:26

myself getting so much even though I'm

50:28

facilitating and really taking, you know,

50:31

a backseat and letting the group

50:33

process do what it does. I'm

50:35

like coming out of this feeling elated

50:37

and, you know, just like

50:40

happy like wanting to dance like playful,

50:42

very light. And it's like, how can

50:44

I possibly feel that way when yesterday

50:47

I was like, Oh, the state of

50:49

the world is never, you know,

50:51

I feel so powerless, I'm alone, it's never gonna

50:53

get better, I think I'm gonna die. And,

50:55

you know, then I go to my, my

50:59

call and be like, this is amazing,

51:01

you all are so wonderful. And then

51:03

I would leave like walking on

51:05

air for a few days, you know, and

51:07

you did create a similar experience

51:10

for yourself and for your community.

51:12

Yeah, and I feel the exact

51:14

same way after calls in Brave,

51:16

where, I mean, I benefit so much

51:20

from it as well. And

51:22

I don't know, I'm curious what

51:24

you what your what your perspective is.

51:26

But it's like, I know that like, I am

51:28

the facilitator, I created this thing, but I feel

51:31

like I have nothing to do with it at all.

51:35

That magic it does, it does, it just happens.

51:37

And like, kind of like you're describing a walking

51:40

on air, like my family knows whenever

51:42

I've just walked out of

51:44

a brave call. And they're like, Oh, hey,

51:46

mom, like, how are you doing? You look

51:48

great. You're

51:51

glowing. Exactly.

51:53

Because, you know, being

51:55

in spaces like that, where we can just

51:57

talk just like you and I are. Laura

52:00

of just like, just talking about things

52:02

and not having to, I don't

52:05

know, like protect against stuff or

52:07

rephrase things because it's going to

52:09

sound weird. Like we can just

52:11

say whatever we need to in

52:14

a space where we know that there

52:16

is mutual and unconditional support and positive

52:18

regard and respect. And also spaces where

52:21

we can share our mistakes and our

52:23

mess ups and our fears. I

52:26

think that's one of the most powerful things is

52:28

knowing that there's a space where people

52:30

can show up and say, Oh my

52:32

God, I totally made this mistake. Or

52:34

I'm so afraid to do this thing.

52:36

And then we get to walk

52:39

through that together and walk through that tunnel.

52:41

Yeah. Well, that's

52:43

it. It's like you're not,

52:45

it's the, what

52:48

you are doing and what I am doing

52:50

is we've created spaces. We're

52:52

holding the space. We made a place people

52:54

can come to, and then we show

52:56

up and hold the container

52:59

in the space. But believe

53:01

me, I know, I know for me, it's

53:04

the full-time job running the whole thing,

53:06

but it's, it's

53:09

more than a labor of love

53:11

because it doesn't enrich me so

53:13

much myself. But

53:16

it's like, if I feel powerless about

53:18

the way the world is, what can

53:20

I do? And by supporting

53:22

trauma therapists, I'm able

53:25

to help them support their

53:27

clients better. It spreads. It's like

53:29

you were talking about with the glimmers and

53:32

vicarious resilience. It spreads

53:35

positive connection, safety, trust,

53:38

love, care. And that's

53:42

not spreading hate,

53:44

fear, competition, you

53:47

know, and which is such a big

53:49

thing with therapists where we feel so

53:51

isolated and we feel nose to the

53:53

grindstone. We don't even look up. So

53:55

we don't know there are people around who

53:58

care about us and want to support us. And

54:00

everybody feels so depleted. They don't feel

54:02

like they have any that's

54:05

like I don't want to talk to anybody Don't

54:07

ask me for anything. Look at your text messages.

54:09

You're like, oh my gosh, there's 15 messages here

54:11

I have to respond to and it feels very

54:14

depleting but when you have supportive

54:17

people Who are

54:19

surrounding you who? Understand what

54:21

your work is like and what matters to

54:23

you and and how the world can be

54:25

that can be Hard to know

54:28

that truth and you hear the things that that

54:30

can go on but it's like you're not holding

54:32

it alone anymore Yeah And

54:36

we then also get to to be seen

54:38

for how much we love doing this work

54:41

You know a lot of times when I tell people

54:43

that I'm a trauma therapist their first reaction is like

54:45

oh How can you do that every day and I

54:48

can't imagine myself doing anything else?

54:51

And when I've been put

54:53

in positions where I had to work

54:55

with other presenting problems. It was so

54:57

challenging I'm like, I

55:00

don't know how to treat anxiety like

55:03

I Get

55:05

that so much. It's like I can do one thing. I Know

55:10

Really good at it ask me to

55:12

do like some short Why

55:15

do it I'm like, I don't know how So

55:19

you know and that's because we

55:21

love this work, you know And and

55:23

because we get to witness the glimmers

55:25

and the vicarious resilience We used to

55:28

see people get better from trauma and

55:30

and it never erases the trauma But

55:32

we get to see people reclaim their

55:35

lives Which I think

55:37

is a really unique thing in the

55:39

mental health space because not every specialty

55:41

gets to Witness that and walk on

55:43

these journeys. Oh, I so true I

55:46

think that's really the crux of why

55:48

I love trauma work so

55:50

much I think people are like you

55:53

like that and I'm like,

55:55

no, I love it. Like I'm obsessed

55:57

with it I'm fascinated by it. It's

55:59

endless interesting how our brains

56:01

and bodies work and the ways

56:03

that we can you know adapt

56:06

and overcome and then

56:10

grow and heal

56:13

you know in ways that we never

56:15

dreamed were possible knowing that

56:17

can happen and having experienced it myself it's

56:19

a joyful thing to do this work because

56:22

you come into it knowing I know this

56:24

person is suffering a lot right now and

56:26

it's really awful what they've been through but

56:29

I also know that they can they're gonna

56:31

feel so much better and you

56:33

know they don't know it yet but I know

56:35

they are going to and I know how to

56:37

help them get there and that is like what

56:40

could be better you know right

56:42

exactly so

56:46

I love letter to trauma work

56:48

I know I was gonna

56:51

say don't you sometimes use like a trauma

56:53

nerd phrase yeah so I

56:56

very much revealed myself to be a trauma

56:58

nerd in case anybody didn't already realize that

57:00

I never would have got

57:04

that about you my secret's out well Jimmy we I know

57:06

we have to stop but will you

57:15

tell people a little bit more about

57:17

brave because you didn't really explain what

57:19

it is and I want people to

57:22

know yeah so brave the brave trauma

57:24

therapist collective is the online community membership

57:26

that I've created for trauma therapists and

57:29

I'm it's very similar to the

57:32

trauma therapist network in that we

57:34

have weekly calls we

57:36

have an online like member area

57:38

and forum where we're able to

57:40

support each other asynchronously we've got

57:42

lots of different kinds of content and

57:44

guest speakers to support each other and

57:47

it just is another space where

57:50

trauma therapists can can gather and

57:52

find each other and be able

57:54

to show up as them whole selves

57:56

their whole selves and get the support

57:59

that they deserve Again,

58:01

it's called the Brave Trauma Therapist Collective

58:03

and the best place to find more

58:05

information is just at braveproviders.com. Okay,

58:08

it's beautiful. And you

58:10

know, there's never too many,

58:12

goodness knows, there's never too many

58:15

places to gather and

58:18

support one another. And

58:21

I want trauma therapists to

58:23

thrive and it doesn't

58:25

have to be through my community. I just

58:27

want everybody to get what they need.

58:30

And so I'm so glad that you're offering that

58:32

and I know you're very passionate about it. And

58:35

so thank you for telling us about it

58:38

now. And is that the

58:40

best place to find everything you're doing or do

58:42

you have another website that you want us to?

58:44

Yeah, that's the best place to find everything that

58:46

I'm doing. Because clinically,

58:49

my website is jenniferhusephd.com. So

58:53

that's where people can find something, you know,

58:55

information about the clinical work that I'm doing. But

58:58

braveproviders.com is probably the best place to find stuff.

59:01

You threw me off when you said Jennifer. I've

59:03

never thought of you as Jennifer. I've gave Jenny

59:05

to me. I'm not Jennifer. So

59:08

funny that you say that because I'm Jenny

59:10

and but on a lot of my paperwork

59:12

it says Jennifer and then I just went

59:15

with that because that's what it says on

59:17

my license. But then anytime someone calls me

59:19

Jennifer, I'm like, you don't know me. Who are

59:21

you talking to? You do not know me. I

59:24

swear when you started to say Jennifer Hughes, I

59:26

thought you were going to say, I thought

59:28

I was going to say, do you work for someone named

59:30

Jennifer? You work in a group practice? I thought you have

59:33

your own practice. I know.

59:35

That's funny. I know. Isn't

59:37

it? I love that you have

59:39

that reaction because that's how I feel internally. Like

59:41

it's my like, you know, official name,

59:43

but I am Jenny. You

59:45

like. Who's Jenny? Oh, never

59:48

mind. I know, exactly. Oh, that's

59:50

me. That's my, that's my big

59:52

little name. Exactly.

59:55

Yeah. Well, whether you're Jennifer

59:57

or Jenny, you're doing amazing. work

1:00:00

out there in the world. And I'm so grateful

1:00:02

again, that we've developed the friendship

1:00:04

that we have that I know will continue to

1:00:06

grow. And, and again,

1:00:09

that you took the time to come here

1:00:11

today. So thank you so much. Yeah, thank

1:00:13

you so much for again, creating space for

1:00:15

this. And, you know,

1:00:17

for, I think, creating space for

1:00:20

us to be able to share more of

1:00:22

our stories and journeys, because we

1:00:24

don't always have spaces trauma therapists be able

1:00:26

to talk about that. And the

1:00:28

work that you're doing, I mean, it is just,

1:00:31

it is unparalleled. And I'm so, so

1:00:33

grateful to be just a tiny little piece

1:00:35

of that. Oh, what a sweet thing to

1:00:38

say. Thank you, Jenny. All

1:00:40

right. Well, one

1:00:43

more time, I'll just say thank you for being my

1:00:45

guest. filling,

1:01:01

scheduling, note-taking, and telehealth incredibly

1:01:03

easy. And now for

1:01:06

all you prescribers out there, Therapy

1:01:08

Notes is proudly introducing e-Prescribe. Try

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featuring e-Prescribe. at

1:01:20

therapynotes.com. Trauma

1:01:27

Therapist Network is a website to learn about

1:01:30

trauma and how it shows up in our

1:01:32

lives and to find a trauma therapist. Go

1:01:35

to traumatherapistnetwork.com to find a

1:01:37

trauma therapist near you today.

1:01:46

Thank you for listening to Therapy Chat

1:01:49

with your host, Laura Reagan,

1:01:51

LCSWC. For

1:01:54

more information, please

1:01:56

visit therapychatpodcast.com. goes

1:02:01

up in our lives and to find a

1:02:03

trauma therapist. Go to traumatherapistnetwork.com

1:02:06

to find a trauma therapist

1:02:08

near you today. Thank

1:02:16

you for listening to Therapy Chat with

1:02:18

your host, Laura Reagan, LCSWC.

1:02:23

For more information, please

1:02:25

visit therapychatpodcast.com. www.therapychatpodcast.com