0:04

There Are No Girls on the Internet, as a production of I Heart

0:06

Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm

0:12

Bridget Todd and this is There Are No Girls on the

0:14

Internet. Can

0:18

you think of the future, What does it look like?

0:21

In nineteen sixties, six Star Trek

0:23

creator Gene Roddenberry imagined a future

0:25

where the multiracial crew of the U. S.

0:27

S. Enterprise worked together to explore

0:29

the wonders of space, and

0:32

while they were at it, they also explored race,

0:34

disability, and gender. Star

0:37

Trek has long bit of vessel over people to imagine

0:39

themselves in the future. When

0:42

Nichelle Nichols, who played a horror wanted

0:44

to quit the show to pursue a career on Broadway, it

0:47

was Martin Luther King, a Trekky himself,

0:50

who convinced her to stay on so the world

0:52

could see a black woman as commanding and

0:54

capable. Here's Nichols

0:56

describing the historic encounter and

0:59

then looking at the Martin Luther King,

1:02

he said, you can't and

1:06

I couldn't, and I've never

1:08

regretted it. I

1:10

didn't leave. I couldn't

1:12

leave. The

1:15

rest is history. Is

1:17

it any surprise that MLK was a Star Trek

1:19

fan In order to be an activist,

1:22

you have to be able to imagine a future that's

1:25

better than the current reality and believe

1:28

in the promise that the future includes people

1:30

like you. Bla Ramani is

1:32

an activist, historian, and author.

1:35

Like MLK before her, she's a huge Trek

1:37

e and the show helped her imagine a future where

1:39

people like her aren't just included,

1:42

but where they can also live long and prosper. Last

1:45

year, when I went to Comic Con in California,

1:47

she cosplayed as Jordie LaForge, the

1:50

Enterprises chief engineer played by LaVar

1:52

Burdon. The character was

1:54

a nod to George LaForge, a quadraplegic

1:57

fan of the show. Jordie is blind and

2:00

device called Advisor gives them the ability

2:02

to see. And if you're anything like me, you spent

2:04

your childhood mimking the device with a

2:06

headband on your face. Blair

2:08

wanted to dress this Jordy, but

2:10

also at our own spin to it. I

2:13

have always believed that Jordie Laforage

2:15

of Star Trek is a Muslim

2:17

because he's born I think on February

2:21

five not I think I know um in

2:23

Mogadi Shoe Somalia, which is a Muslim

2:26

majority country, and in three hundred years

2:28

it will probably still be a Muslim majority country.

2:30

So odds are that Jordan LaForge is a black

2:32

Muslim. So I thought, oh, how fun and wholesome

2:35

it will be for me to bring my religiosity

2:37

and myself to this space. I did

2:39

not anticipate gonna go super

2:41

viral. I did not anticipate pissing

2:43

off islamophobes. Um, I mean

2:45

I kind of always anticipate that, but not in the Star

2:47

Trek Bandam. So it kind

2:50

of turned into like some fun thing I could do, and

2:52

of course, like most things, it became a political

2:54

statement. You can find a link to Blair's

2:57

outfit in the show notes, and I definitely suggest

2:59

checking it out. Her feminized

3:01

Islamic sized take on Jordy LaForge

3:04

with a hajab went viral. Had

3:06

this beautiful robe from el Haffer Design,

3:09

which is based in Los Angeles, created by Katie

3:11

al Haffer, so woman owned business love

3:13

that. I had the Jordy Leforge Visor

3:15

which is his seeing device, because um,

3:18

Jordy LaForge is not cited. He's blind,

3:21

but he uses this vision device visor

3:23

device in order to be able to see. So I had that, and

3:25

then I put a nice blackie job on top of it.

3:28

Blair said only three people asked

3:30

her about cosplaying as a version of Jordy,

3:32

who presents as a woman, but it

3:34

was the addition of the job that really

3:36

riled people up. Some of the responses

3:39

were really pedantic, like one Twitter

3:41

user who said a hadjob would violate the

3:43

Starfleet's dress code. So, Blair,

3:45

what was the reaction like online? You

3:47

would have thought that I had, like, I

3:50

don't know, a little holy book on fire the way

3:52

some people were reacting. So you have the

3:54

one group of folks who, um, well,

3:57

actually, I wouldn't have even photographed it if it wasn't

3:59

from my friend Kalin Barowski, who

4:01

like, he's my photographer, like primarily,

4:04

and he was like, you need to get photographs of this, and I was like,

4:07

okay, fine, let's do it before I go to Comic Con.

4:09

And I just posted it for Juma, which is you

4:11

know, Friday, Friday Prayer Day,

4:13

and I was like, you know, Juma to

4:15

all the Muslims across the galaxy, and the pictures

4:17

came out super iconic, and so I posted them

4:20

and it was wild because

4:22

cast of the Star Trek franchise

4:25

like Will Wheaton and uh,

4:27

you know, LeVar Burton himself and Michael

4:30

Dorn and Brent Spinner saw

4:32

the post and started sharing it themselves, which

4:34

was like super duper validating. I was like on top

4:36

of the world. Um. And then of course the fans started

4:39

to see it, and then of course star Trek dot

4:41

com itself started to see it. Um.

4:43

And so there was like this outpourt of like, what is this

4:46

the most exciting and

4:48

kind of like, I guess surprising

4:51

aspect was that people thought I was a new

4:53

character on the show Piccard, and

4:55

I still get emails from people who are like, when

4:57

is your episode coming out? I'm

5:00

so excited. So

5:02

some people really liked it and some people

5:04

really hated it. But Blair couldn't

5:07

understand why her using star Trek to affirm

5:09

that the future includes black Muslims like her was

5:11

so shocking, particularly given

5:13

that Star Trek was meant to show a vision of the future

5:16

that includes everybody. It was

5:18

really polarizing. On the one hand, as

5:20

far as like social media went, it was

5:22

like folks who are really excited or thought

5:24

that I was a new character. Then you had folks saying

5:27

things like Gene Roddenberry

5:29

didn't intend for Muslims to

5:31

be in space. Muslims aren't in Star Trek,

5:33

and I'm like, first of all, Star Trek is fictional. Second

5:35

of all, yeah he did because you

5:37

know, Gene Roddenberry, he believed in

5:39

infinite diversity and infinite combinations.

5:42

And Star Trek was a beloved show

5:44

of Dr Martin Luther King Jr. Who

5:46

actually encourage Um, you

5:48

know Ahura, you know, the woman

5:50

who plays Uhura to like continue on the show.

5:53

Um and Michelle Nichols

5:55

and so like, not only is

5:57

Jean Roddenberry not this like you

6:00

know, like anti

6:02

diversity, anti PC dude,

6:04

he was the reason there was the first interracial

6:07

kiss on television between Captain Kirk

6:09

and Lieutenant Uhura. And so

6:11

that's huge. You know. So when

6:13

people are saying there's no Muslims in space and like,

6:15

actually, I have evidence to back it up. But

6:17

also, this isn't even a real universe. If you hate

6:20

Muslims so much, maybe you should just say that instead

6:22

of trying to use either you

6:24

know, your own bandom or

6:26

something else to hide behind that. There's

6:29

a rich tradition of activists finding inspiration

6:31

and being able to see themselves in fictional worlds.

6:34

It's one of the reasons like MLK wanted

6:37

Michelle Nichols to keep showing that kind

6:39

of representation. Civil

6:41

rights icon John Lewis was

6:43

one of my heroes, and my favorite

6:45

fact about him is that during Comic Con he

6:48

cosplayed as his own younger self crossing

6:51

the Edmund Pettis Bridge in Selma

6:53

during the Civil rights movement. At Comic

6:56

Con, he wore the

6:58

same code and carried the same and backpack

7:00

that contained the same things he brought with him

7:03

back on that fateful day in n an

7:06

Apple, a toothbrush and

7:08

a comic book, all the things you

7:10

need to survive a night in jail. At

7:13

the convention, dressed as his own younger

7:15

self, Lewis led kids on a little march

7:17

around the convention to help them visualize

7:20

that anyone could be a hero, even them.

7:22

He was there to promote his own comic book,

7:25

a graphic novel retelling of the march on

7:27

Selma called March Here's

7:29

the Late John Lewis at comic advocating

7:33

for a new generation to create

7:35

good trouble and

7:46

young people. And

7:55

it might sound strange for a civil rights

7:57

icon to be talking about comics at a convention.

8:00

But John Lewis says that he was first inspired

8:02

to join the civil rights movement from reading

8:04

a comic book about MLK called Dr

8:06

King Martin Luther King in the Montgomery

8:09

Story. I

8:13

think it really shows that civil

8:16

rights leaders and activists

8:18

are real people with real interests.

8:20

They're not just sort of like someone that you read

8:23

about on in February for Black History

8:25

Month and the prefecture in a book. They're real,

8:27

multifaceted people. And

8:30

I do think there's this connection to science

8:32

fiction and other nerdy interests

8:35

and the civil rights and activism because you

8:37

have to be able to sort of imagine

8:40

and dream that different worlds are possible

8:42

to be an activist and to fight for, to fight for

8:44

the kind of change that you fight for. I keep making

8:46

the connections between religion and you

8:48

know, sci fi because it is the idea

8:50

of a different world. Like you know, Dr King

8:52

spoke about the mountain Top, but we can also

8:55

look at that as you know, imagining a

8:57

afro futurism um and imagining

8:59

ourselves in a different realm, and this whole idea

9:01

that we have to get beyond the limitations of our own

9:04

imagination um. And sometimes

9:06

for you know, religious folks such as byself, it means

9:08

trusting that you know, a law or God or

9:10

Yahweh has the ultimate plan um

9:12

and that is beyond our own understanding because

9:15

we have a finite kept you know, ability to understand

9:17

in our current um system. Or

9:19

it could be to use you know, graphics

9:22

and art and illustration and comics

9:24

and books and video and film, uh

9:27

in podcasts to you know, imagine

9:29

what that looks like and transport us to a different place

9:31

as a reprieve from the difficulties

9:33

of the world. But it's also

9:36

crucial to understand that, you know,

9:38

these are tools used to transport

9:41

us, but they're still being created by people, and

9:43

because of that, there's going to be limitations. I mean,

9:46

the example I keep giving is that, you know, in Star

9:48

Trek, they have people giving painful you

9:50

know, traditional birth um

9:53

you know, via the birth canal, and

9:55

I'm like, okay, well, if you can like zap somebody

9:58

healthy with like a laser gun, then

10:00

why can't you just like teleport the baby out of

10:02

the womb? You know, Like there's a limitations,

10:04

you know, or the idea that we haven't surpassed

10:07

this idea of you know, pain during

10:09

childbirth, etcetera, or just

10:12

you know, is there an incubation pod like you

10:14

know, because Star Trek the Next Generation was created

10:17

at a specific time in history. Even the things

10:19

that they make as a

10:21

futuristic interpretation

10:24

of a current technology, it's going to be

10:26

based on that current technology. But the other cool

10:28

thing is that so many technologies are then based

10:30

on UM, you know, the

10:32

imaginings of previous sci fi writers,

10:35

even like Jules Burne. You know, people

10:37

as they imagine are also limited by

10:39

the imaginings of each other. UM.

10:42

And so with John Lewis, I

10:44

was actually able to meet him while he was on tour

10:47

UM during UH the first

10:49

March book UM created by himself

10:52

and Andrew Aiden and Nate Powell, and

10:54

I spoke to him about why he decided to do this format,

10:57

and it was because he wanted to

10:59

reach as the people as possible. And so

11:01

Andrew Aiden and John Lewis,

11:03

they both love comic books. And that comic book

11:06

that you refer to is called Dr King

11:09

Martin Luther King in the Montgomery Story,

11:11

and it's it's beautiful because

11:14

it shows how much

11:16

of a superman. Dr King

11:18

was made to be Not only is in an educational

11:21

tool, but these are representational

11:23

materials of things that are happening in the

11:25

present moment. I think today

11:28

we get caught up in conversations about

11:30

this activism is performative. You know,

11:32

if you have an outfit to show up to a protest,

11:35

you're being a shallow activist, completely

11:37

ignoring the fact that, like the

11:39

Black Panther Party didn't just wake up with

11:41

perfectly symmetrical afros, excellently

11:43

tailored slacks and turtlenecks and

11:45

berets. They didn't just roll out of bed like that.

11:48

It was all intentional and performance

11:50

and art and illustration

11:53

and the conveyance of information

11:55

requires intentionality,

11:57

and that's going to deal with aesthetics. So it's not to

12:00

say we have to choose one, so not to say

12:02

one should overcome the other, but that we

12:04

can have both of these things in tandem. And that

12:06

sometimes we live in ourselves, um

12:09

we being kind of like the broader community or

12:11

you know, people who uh just

12:13

you know, we as a people often limit

12:15

ourselves in what tools we uh

12:18

grab onto because if you've only

12:20

seen tweets or TikTok's that

12:23

cover surface level, you know, material

12:25

If the only way you've come into contact with sci

12:28

fi has been at the surface level way, then

12:30

you're probably not going to understand the fact that,

12:32

you know, during the time of a crack epidemic,

12:35

the Star Trek universe decided

12:37

to tackle addiction. You might not

12:39

understand that, you know, TikTok is being used to

12:42

educate young people and people

12:44

across literacy and language, um,

12:46

And so it's all about how we use

12:48

the tools. And that's why I find, you know, comics

12:51

and film and TV so

12:54

exciting because yeah, it's

12:56

a different world. Yeah it's not real life,

12:59

but it can totally be a proxy for our real

13:01

life and it can be a reprieve from our world. But

13:03

then it's also very important to make sure

13:06

that we check our own biases when creating

13:08

that work. Fiction, comic books,

13:10

cartoons, TV shows, all

13:12

of them can be tools to help us better understand ourselves

13:15

and the world around us. Blair

13:18

is also an author. Her books Modern

13:20

History and Making Our Way Home use

13:23

colorful illustrations to help introduce

13:25

audiences to the

13:27

concept that marginalized people of the past weren't

13:29

just two dimensional historical figures. They

13:31

were complex and the cover

13:33

of both of her books kind of look like comics.

13:36

Fun factful circle story is

13:38

the reason why I'm an author is because of LaVar

13:41

Burton. So one, LaVar Burton made

13:43

me an enthusiastic reader via reading Rainbow,

13:45

and two I thanked him for that. He

13:47

started following me, and when I was trying to get

13:50

a publisher for the book, he shouted me

13:52

out and literally said, somebody published

13:54

this woman's book and like to two

13:56

million people who are probably in literacy

13:59

to some extent. And that paved the way

14:01

for me not only getting my first book, deal with

14:03

my second one with the same publishing house. So

14:06

LeVar Burton is amazing. Um and

14:08

so I, you know, couldn't

14:11

relish the fact that I that you know, imagery

14:13

and things like TV and film shaped

14:16

my own understanding as a reader and as you

14:18

know, an informed person like you

14:20

might remember Jimmy Neutron, Like they actually

14:22

snuck in a lot of very important scientific

14:25

and you know, um engineering

14:27

information into that show, Like even SpongeBob

14:30

talks about things that like makes sense in

14:32

real life and so and

14:34

and the fact that Steve Hillenberg, who created

14:36

SpongeBob, was a marine biologist and wanted

14:39

to convey that education to young people

14:41

through his work, So I was definitely

14:43

informed by that, and I think growing up in like the golden

14:46

era of animation really helped

14:48

me to kind of connect those two things.

14:50

But I also like the idea of somebody picking

14:52

up my book because it looks like a good coffee table

14:54

book. It looks like a light read. And I do make

14:56

my books accessible at a fifth grade level, because

14:59

most folks read it a fifth grade level, and most

15:01

magazines are written at a fifth grade level. But

15:03

I like the idea of some sweet grandma

15:05

who might have you know, conservative politics,

15:08

picking up the book because it looks friendly on the front

15:10

cover, giving it to her you know,

15:12

offspring, and surprise, they're

15:15

getting radicalized. They're getting educated

15:17

about things that are complex and intricate

15:19

in a way that is family friendly and you know,

15:21

age appropriate, but things that might

15:24

not be covered until they get to college because of the

15:26

limitations of the educational system.

15:28

So especially with my second book, Making

15:31

Our Way Home, even though there's a gay couple

15:33

on the front cover in the form of my uncle Lester

15:35

and a partner we imagined for him,

15:37

I still get emails from people saying I

15:39

didn't know this book was going to be queer affirming.

15:42

Of course they don't say it like that, but I'm like, I

15:44

didn't hide anything. But because

15:46

it's presented in a certain way, UM,

15:49

it doesn't detract from people who are already

15:51

seeking that material, but it also invites

15:53

people in who might not have otherwise

15:56

engaged with something like the Great

15:58

Migration or Black history.

16:01

UM that covers everything from the

16:03

period of enslavement to the creation of hip hop.

16:05

So I try to use imagery

16:08

to sneak my way in, uh,

16:10

and it's pretty effective. So we

16:12

know they're black folks, queer folks,

16:14

and Muslim folks in the future. Did

16:16

Star Trek help you be able to visualize

16:18

that kind of world? Yeah? And

16:20

it's funny, like so much, you know, Star

16:22

Trek has really helped me envision what the

16:24

future looks like. So often when we look at

16:27

sci fi, UM, it's

16:29

you know, aliens from a different universe

16:31

who have a completely different molecular structure, but

16:33

for some reason they have a British accent. Like wtf,

16:36

you know, like white supremacy goes hard, I guess, even

16:38

in sci fi. And so I'm

16:40

definitely not like under any delusions

16:42

about why, you know, certain biases

16:45

exist. It's because it's the limitations of our own

16:47

imagination as people. But it's not only

16:49

helped me understand diversity. It's helped me understand

16:51

how I discuss religion at

16:54

large as a historian, and so

16:56

often that means looking back in time. It's

16:58

a really exciting thing to also look at sci

17:00

fi as a step towards the future. Star

17:03

Trek has been fundamental in the

17:05

identity formation of myself as a black woman

17:07

and as a Muslim woman, And it's helped me speak

17:09

about religion just to see how something

17:12

as secular and something

17:15

as you know, low stakes. I guess it's Star

17:17

Trek can be imbued with the same

17:19

type of passion and vitriol but

17:21

also beauty that comes with religious

17:23

debates. And I was actually at

17:26

the School of Divinity at Princeton

17:28

giving a talk and I was talking about cannon,

17:31

and um, you know, today we talk about canon

17:33

like your fan, your fan, cannon, your

17:35

headcan and things that you know to be true but maybe

17:37

aren't canonical to the actual

17:39

franchise. You know, say things like

17:42

maybe you believe all Peaka choose are related in Pokemon,

17:44

but you don't actually have a basis for things like that, And

17:47

so I was talking about how, in my head Cannon

17:49

for um Star Trek

17:52

Jordan Leforge is a black Muslim,

17:54

and of course that's influenced by my own, you

17:56

know, skin in the game. I would also love there to be a

17:58

black Muslim in My Face show and my favorite

18:01

character to be one, So of course I'm going to imbue that.

18:03

But there's also a basis in the fact

18:05

that he's born in Mogadishu, Somalia, which is canonical

18:07

to the text. And I was talking about this

18:09

in the context of religion and how you

18:12

know, we can all read the same religious

18:14

scripture and come to

18:16

completely different theological interpretations,

18:19

and people tend to grasp that. But I

18:21

was talking about how, of course that

18:24

happens, like I think some people get confused,

18:26

like how can we all read the same story of Genesis

18:29

And you know, well, we're

18:31

not even reading the same story. We're reading different interpretations,

18:33

different translations, centuries old differences.

18:36

We're reading people imbuing

18:39

their own biases while they translate all

18:41

these different things. And it was so

18:43

great because I was talking to this group at this very you

18:45

know, like fancy institution, uh

18:47

at Princeton talking about how Star

18:50

Trek is a case study into why

18:52

there's so much religious turmoil because

18:54

if something is like I said, low sakes

18:56

of Star Trek can start a virtual

18:59

flame war over what religion

19:02

is or is not in Star Trek, then of

19:04

course something as high stakes as our

19:06

eternal souls is going to you know, spark

19:09

a bunch of debate. And I tell people this, and I

19:11

think it helps them understand everything from why

19:14

you know, I feel comfortable being a queer Muslim

19:16

um and owning that and owning God's love,

19:19

to things like white fandoms can

19:21

be so fraught and disconnected

19:24

and um, you know, uh,

19:26

just chaotic. But the really cool thing

19:28

to see is how people will use

19:31

the scripture or in this case, the fandom

19:33

or you know, the original source material from the

19:35

creator in this case Gene Roddenberry

19:37

and not God. Um well you

19:40

know, uh, to use

19:42

that to protect and preserve

19:44

other people. Because it was so cool seeing

19:47

like you know, trek Eas

19:49

and Trekkers which are also Trekkys,

19:51

but they use their own terminology which we respect. Um

19:54

kind of defending me basing

19:56

this in like not only Star Trek the next

19:58

generation, but Deep Space nine, the

20:01

movies, the animated series, all showing a

20:03

basis for religion in Star Trek, from episodes

20:05

in the original series where there's a Christmas

20:08

tree, two episodes in Deep Space nine where

20:10

they totally get into religion, to episodes in the

20:12

Next Generation itself. And I just felt

20:14

so warm in that, like it was like

20:16

a virtual hug from all these different strangers

20:19

who were like, we're not only going to protect

20:21

her as a Muslim woman, but her

20:23

ability to belong in this fandom.

20:25

And that's the thing about being a

20:27

girl or a woman on the internet is that

20:30

you constantly have to defend yourself and it's

20:32

a relief when other people step into do it on your

20:34

behalf. Definitely, that's

20:36

something that I love. Like one thing

20:38

I love about being somebody who was like a woman online

20:41

is people will ride for you, people

20:43

will fight for you, they'll speak up for you, they'll

20:45

they'll shake tables for you, they'll make sure that your

20:47

voice is included and amplified. And

20:50

and those moments just saying

20:52

yes to that trust, falling into your community

20:54

that has your back, those have been my favorite times

20:57

online, oh a hundred percent. Like

21:00

I think that when you go to comic connor.

21:02

You go to a convention or any space where you're taking

21:04

virtual connections and

21:06

putting it into the physical realm, there's

21:08

always that concern of am I going to be rejected? And

21:10

that really goes with anything, you know, just

21:12

like the first day at school, your first day on the job,

21:15

Am I going to be rejected? And then also

21:17

being in a fandom space and a geek or

21:19

a nerd space, it's that constant

21:21

feeling of do you even know the material well

21:23

enough? Like oh, oh, you like

21:26

like you know, you

21:28

like Beyonce, name all of her freckles, that type

21:31

of thing, you know, and it's like, come

21:33

on now, Like we can all enjoy things at are different

21:35

levels, but just the whole feeling

21:37

that we don't know our our stuff enough as

21:40

women. And that's not just like I said,

21:42

it's not just with Star Trek, like, you know, the assumption

21:44

that I don't know every character off the top of my head,

21:46

even though I totally bombed at Star Trek

21:48

Trivia recently. Um,

21:51

but it's also the implication that we

21:53

as professionals, as women in the world,

21:55

don't know what we're talking about. So that could be

21:58

anything that you do, like I was in the communy communications

22:00

field when we worked at Planned Parenthood, and

22:03

yeah, I would constantly have people telling me not

22:05

their like, you know, thank goodness, but I'd

22:07

have reporters constantly questioning how I was

22:09

so young and doing what I was doing, how I was doing

22:12

this and doing what I was doing. And so it's exhausting

22:14

to then deal with that in a leisurely space,

22:16

a recreational space. But it is

22:18

that beautiful thing where people will just go for you.

22:21

Like even when you're making an inside joke amongst

22:23

friends and you're ragging on each other on the

22:25

Internet and somebody who doesn't know that your friends

22:27

are like, hey, leave Blair alone. It's like, hey,

22:30

actually we're cool, but thanks for having my back.

22:33

Let's take a quick break center

22:43

back. The future will be

22:45

intersectional. There will be black

22:47

people, queer people, and Muslim people

22:50

and people like Blair who exist at these intersections.

22:53

But on social media, people tell Blair

22:55

there's no such thing as a queer Muslim,

22:58

so she can't possibly exist. Yet

23:00

here she is existing. What's

23:03

it like to have so many people online essentially

23:05

saying that because you're a queer Muslim, you can't

23:07

possibly exist it's funny

23:10

to me, And honestly, you

23:12

know, I'm so grateful that I've gotten

23:14

to a place in my heart and in my

23:16

own personal journey where i can laugh at

23:18

it, because, like in my family, if we can

23:20

laugh at it, no matter how messed up it is, we've

23:22

moved on, or at least we were able to like

23:25

view it in a way that's healthy. You know, in a

23:27

Islam, at least, we don't believe that of

23:29

human being can then tell another

23:32

human being what their salvation is going to look like,

23:34

not even the profit. Peace be upon him.

23:36

It's this idea that you know, a law is

23:38

a law. You know, deities are deities and humans

23:41

are humans, And so I can

23:43

be very comfortable in saying when somebody says you can't

23:45

be Muslim, I'm like, oh my goodness, I did not

23:47

know that a law used Instagram. How are

23:49

you doing? You know? Or I have people

23:51

who say things like the devil called They're waiting for

23:53

you in hell, and I'm just like, oh my goodness,

23:56

you have the devil's direct line. That sounds like a

23:58

problem, you know. So I can really have

24:00

fun with it, but at the same time, it's really breaking down

24:02

the fact that in my belief, you

24:04

know, Islam faith, you know, regardless

24:07

of the faith that you come from,

24:09

those things are so deeply personal.

24:12

And yes they have, you know, accompaniments

24:14

like religious texts, the Koran, you have

24:16

hadiths, which are you know, stories passed

24:19

down from the prophet's time and from other leaders.

24:21

And it is up to you how you walk

24:24

into that. And so for myself,

24:26

I will never let another human being tell

24:29

me what a law believes about

24:31

myself because as

24:33

human beings, yes we can communicate to God

24:35

through prayer, but it is again through the

24:37

limitations of our own understandings

24:40

and our own biases. So I own

24:42

up to that, but then I also encourage

24:44

others to to think of that as well. Not

24:47

to say this is how you should do Islam, this is how

24:49

you should not do Islam, but to say

24:51

what speaks to you. And so

24:53

it used to really bother me. I think also what used

24:55

to bother me was being told that I wasn't a black woman

24:58

because I, you know, am lighter skin And

25:00

what's so frustrating to me is that I so often

25:03

see lighter skinned black women using that

25:05

as a reason to perpetuate and continue

25:07

being colorists. Instead of grasping the fact

25:09

that colorism isn't

25:11

the same as getting made fun of for being

25:13

lighter skinned. It's not the same as getting made fun

25:16

of for having a sunburn. It means

25:18

that as a lighter skinned black woman, I have

25:20

enjoyed the benefits and the

25:22

privilege that are unearned of living in a society

25:25

that calls me beautiful at the peril

25:27

of my darker skinned siblings.

25:30

And you know, then, understanding

25:33

that you're feeling shouldn't get in the way of you dismantling

25:36

that your feelings, Yeah, those are valid,

25:38

but they should not get in the way or step

25:40

on the necks of the people who are already

25:42

being harmed by those systems. So I'm constantly

25:45

thinking about systems of oppression and systems

25:47

of privilege and making sure that

25:49

i'm you know, quickly and easily

25:52

discerning when something is

25:54

from the self serving interest or

25:56

input of an individual

25:58

who wants to do me harm versus when it's

26:00

something that's worth listening to and being called in things

26:03

like my religion, those are not negotiable. But

26:05

of course I'm going to be um.

26:08

You know, I'm always going to understand things

26:10

like privilege, class privilege, abled privilege,

26:13

Um, and be receptive to those conversations.

26:15

But it is a line to walk between when people

26:18

are trying to hurt you and when people are

26:21

calling you on your bs in.

26:25

Blair went on Tucker Carlson's Fox News show

26:27

to discuss the surveillance of Muslim communities.

26:30

Carlson clumsily tries to call her

26:32

out for trying to speak on behalf of the Muslim

26:35

and LGBTQ community. Again,

26:38

the underlying assumption being that Blair couldn't

26:40

possibly be both Muslim and queer,

26:43

and that's how she ended up coming out and put of millions

26:45

of people on Fox News. If

26:47

you noticed that all identity politics kind of converges

26:50

in the end about Muslims. It's about the LBGT

26:52

community about It's like, you

26:55

know, at some point, well, some of us, like

26:57

myself, exists in all of those communities.

27:00

Oay, it's your life, so

27:02

okay, fun story. UM,

27:04

I was just feeling really coffee because I had spent

27:06

the previous year working at Planned Parenthood.

27:09

Uh, you know, educating folks in

27:11

all parts of the country about abortion and abortion

27:14

stigma and doing it to like solid effect where

27:16

I would have conversations with people where they would

27:18

come at me and say things like y'all are the devil,

27:20

and at the end they'd be like, oh, maybe I can take my daughter

27:22

to Planned Parenthood for sex. Said. So I was feeling

27:25

on top of the world, my talking points where working, messaging

27:27

was working. I get an inquiry from

27:29

this guy. It's my last month working at

27:31

Planned Parenthood because my grant was over um

27:34

and so I was like, yeah, I can do this. Who who is

27:36

this guy? I was not thinking about, like, oh, maybe

27:38

I should do some counter intel, figure out who he is.

27:41

I'm going to plan to come out on national

27:43

TV, not thinking about that. I still

27:45

have friends who are in the comms and like pr

27:47

Field who just think I'm a genius who orchestrated

27:49

the whole thing. Not true. I would like to claim

27:51

that, but no, I was just correcting him. I

27:53

forgot that we were on stage. It got to this point where

27:56

I was so fed up with him dancing around

27:58

it and and really trying to erase me

28:01

and pull it poke and product me. Then

28:03

I just snapped back in a very eloquent way and

28:05

I said, well, actually, in addition to

28:07

being a Muslim woman, I'm a black queer person. And

28:10

uh, then I immediately realized I came out on TV

28:13

and I could feel my

28:15

phone vibrating in my pocket and

28:17

I could you know my partner was actually

28:19

on set with me, because um it was remote. So I've

28:21

never breathed the same aristoker Carlson Alhamdula

28:24

praise God. Um, but my partners

28:26

like standing there looking at me, and I can't

28:29

totally look off camera because you know, you

28:31

got to hold a face, and I have a pretty good poker

28:33

face. But if you watch it with that knowledge,

28:35

then it kind of becomes a parent that. Like then

28:38

when I stumbled over my words, it was because I had

28:40

just come out on national TV and so

28:42

everything changed. Um, immediately,

28:44

people who were homophobic but in

28:46

my life and then found out who I was or you

28:49

know, am removed themselves,

28:51

which I considered to be a blessing, but it still was hard.

28:54

Um. Sarah kay Ellis, the president

28:56

and CEO of GLAD, reached out, and

28:59

uh that was awesome because GLAD basically

29:01

scooped me up. And they will do this anytime

29:03

somebody comes out publicly. They make themselves a resource.

29:06

They help you tell your story if you want to

29:08

do press, They'll make sure that you get connected.

29:11

Um And I really just felt scooped up and embraced

29:13

by the community, and it was

29:15

just like a really beautiful thing. For a year after

29:17

that, I felt like I was like the bell of the queer ball

29:19

in the same way that I felt like that about Star Trek. I

29:21

was like, oh, look at this, you know, I feel popular.

29:24

Um And I felt like that after I converted to Islam

29:26

as well. It was kind of this feeling of being new in

29:28

a community and being exciting.

29:31

Um. And I

29:33

also learned as I was dealing the you know,

29:35

experiencing those beautiful euphorice things,

29:38

that privilege was showing up because

29:40

I had the privilege of growing up in a context

29:43

where I can be myself.

29:45

Now, it's not to say that these things should be a privilege.

29:47

You should be able to be yourself and

29:50

your sexual orientation, gender identity, gender

29:52

expression, regardless of the religious or cultural

29:54

context you come from, but that is not the case. Blair

29:57

didn't want to be the black clear Muslim.

30:00

She didn't want her story to obsteer the stories

30:02

of other marginalized people who didn't have the

30:04

ability to cut out like she did, and so

30:06

I wasn't realizing that, you

30:09

know, people were calling me be queer

30:12

Muslim, that people were looking at me as

30:14

the queer Muslim. You know, I was becoming very

30:16

token ized. And so once I became awake

30:18

to that, then I started to really immerse myself

30:20

within other queer Muslim

30:23

context and start to use my profile

30:25

or increasingly large profile UM

30:27

to help fundraise for organizations like

30:30

Kdaiah lgbt Q, both in the

30:32

UK and the US Muslims for progressive

30:34

values, and start to feel that this wasn't

30:37

just me on you know, like the Blair Show, but

30:39

a responsibility that I had to use

30:42

UM, this newly found

30:44

visibility for the upliftment of others.

30:47

Because as I was telling stories that are authentic to

30:49

myself and that's important to do, I

30:51

wasn't realizing how it was harming other people. Like,

30:54

you know, I was talking about how I've never

30:56

second guest myself for being queer

30:58

in my whole life. But I'm

31:01

not trying to tell that story in a way that makes others

31:03

feel bad for going through

31:06

a homophobic, you know, queer phobic

31:08

existence. That's not what I'm called to do.

31:10

That's not what my role should be and

31:12

so now um, and

31:15

I don't think it's completely shifted. I've always tried to be very

31:17

responsible and how I tell my story, but it's this increased

31:19

responsibility. So when I have young

31:21

people reach out to me and they're like, Blair, how can I be

31:23

out like you? I first explained

31:26

to them and remind them of the context

31:28

of the world that we live in, and that

31:30

that's something you have to decide for yourself, and

31:32

that whether you're out or whether you're

31:34

not, you're valid. Um, your queerness

31:37

is valid, and you're not lying to anyone

31:39

just because you're unable to share your truth

31:41

with people, because it is incumbent

31:43

on our society and on the people that love you

31:46

to be able to make space for you. And if they don't do

31:48

that, that's not your fault. And so

31:50

I've really shifted from this idea of you know, come

31:52

out, have a rainbow flag, all types

31:54

of beautiful things. Those are important, but that's

31:57

not all queerness is. The people who are living

31:59

closeted, the people who can't come out. Those

32:01

stories are important and if I can

32:03

help to shed light on those or ease

32:06

the lives of those people, that I'm absolutely

32:08

going to do that. So you know, your

32:10

your books are really about archiving

32:13

and preserving all of the ways that women and

32:16

non binary people and black women in particular,

32:18

you know, the contributions that we really have made

32:21

to history and society into culture.

32:23

Why is preserving that so important to you? And

32:25

what can we do to make sure that these voices

32:27

and these stories don't get overlooked or erased

32:30

or lost. That is the biggest,

32:33

most terrifying thing for me, the idea

32:35

that we will only remember

32:37

people through the lens of those who remember them,

32:39

because you know, we see it happen

32:42

often unfortunately, where we'll

32:45

have someone who was being critical and

32:47

calling you know, representative John

32:49

Lewis, all types of you know, besmirching

32:52

names then post uh, you know,

32:54

a beautiful eulogy, or you

32:56

have you know, idiots like Marco Rubio posting

32:59

the incorrect black person with him while

33:01

also claiming to honor his memory. If you can't

33:03

even tell us apart, then no, I'm

33:05

not going to trust that you remember us for the

33:07

work that we did. Um and we

33:10

saw it when Alijah comings passed and people thought

33:12

that John Lewis. It's just so frustrating

33:14

that we are constantly collapsed. So no,

33:16

I do not trust the institutions

33:19

that collapse us into one monolith

33:21

or you know, sanitize our legacies,

33:23

like what we see with Dr King. I do not

33:26

trust institutions to do us justice.

33:28

So, you know, I had made a joke, I think, probably

33:31

a couple of years ago, that I was going to write my own eulogy.

33:33

But I also started to think about how that opportunity

33:36

is denied to so many people, and that's constantly

33:38

happening to us as black people, as black

33:40

women, as you know, black non men, non

33:43

binary folks, et cetera. UM. And

33:45

so it's fighting against all

33:47

of that and really trying to go back to the original

33:50

text. You know, like I was able

33:52

to pour over some of the um,

33:54

you know, handwritten letters that

33:57

my partner's grandmother had,

33:59

UM that she corresponded with her

34:02

husband, and finding those firsthand

34:04

accounts. There's all types of things. There's pop culture

34:06

references, there's mentions,

34:08

UM of just so many minute,

34:11

yet infinitely important things that might

34:13

get glazed over UM because

34:16

you know, whatever white historian didn't give

34:18

a ship or whatever, you know, academic

34:20

historian UM couldn't

34:22

be bothered with because they you

34:25

know, viewed it as not important, and because

34:27

they didn't view it was important, it gets erased,

34:30

which is terrifying because you

34:33

know, it is so we have so little

34:35

power as a people, as black people in this country

34:37

because of things like enslavement, reconstruction,

34:40

the New Deal being a you know, same

34:43

old, same old deal that you know, really shafted

34:45

black folks. Just I could go on and on,

34:47

but just all of this equal inequality in the country,

34:50

and not only do we not learn

34:52

about those things, but that just makes

34:54

our condition worse because we are blamed

34:56

for what we have endured instead

34:58

of praised for getting through it while also

35:00

being held down by centuries and centuries

35:03

of weight. But we then,

35:06

you know, have to do this whole mind mental

35:09

gymnastics of figuring out why our continents

35:11

are so poor while

35:13

we also see you know, model minorities

35:16

and white folks uplifted as evidence that

35:18

the system works. But we're just not trying

35:20

hard enough instead of actually learning the context.

35:22

So it's it's one of those things where

35:25

it's a cycle, and the only way we can

35:27

break it is by elevating the truth and

35:30

by changing who

35:32

is telling that truth, because people

35:34

are going to tell the truth that's important to them,

35:36

and it's going to fall along bias lines, especially

35:39

if the people who are telling those historical

35:41

truths are faceless and nameless. More

35:45

after this quick rate, let's

35:54

get right back to it. If

35:56

Blair has anything to say about it, the

35:58

future of history won't be nameless or faceless.

36:02

She's building a future where our stories aren't

36:04

told carelessly. One

36:06

of your life mottos is to boldly go,

36:09

you know, from Star Trek, what is your vision

36:11

for a bold, queer, black

36:13

Muslim future look like? Man?

36:16

I mean, it would be great if we didn't have to get surveiled.

36:19

Uh, you know, just basic things like

36:21

I think, you know, one of the

36:24

most basic things of you

36:26

know, being a marginalized person or historically

36:28

marginalized person, uh,

36:31

is the ability to direct your own future

36:33

and to have the resources and abilities to do

36:36

that. Just basic things like having you

36:38

know, Gil Scott hair and says like, you know, I

36:40

just want a family and a wife and a food and

36:42

the children and you know, to food, some food

36:44

to feed them every night. And it's

36:46

just those basic things. The fact that there's premiums

36:49

on water and healthcare, and you know

36:51

the fact that black maternal mortality

36:53

is egregious, and it's not just because black

36:55

women can't give birth. It's because of

36:57

the medical system and medical racism. The

37:00

fact that the Tuskegee syphilis experiments

37:02

went on well beyond there was a cure for syphilis,

37:04

and these people went untreated until they

37:06

were called out in the New York Times in ninety

37:08

two. It's it's so many of those

37:11

things, and you

37:13

know, it's nothing's going to you know,

37:15

let me not live myself in my own imaginations.

37:18

There could be something that changes everything overnight,

37:20

but there's going to be so many things that need to change,

37:22

and that the whole goal, I think, is that

37:24

we can determine our own futures. Not

37:27

that we have to, you know, endure racelessness

37:29

or lose our identities, but that our identities

37:31

and who we are doesn't because

37:34

of the systems we live in inhibit us from

37:36

living our full futures. It doesn't mean that

37:38

I want to suddenly live my life as a white Christian

37:40

woman. No, I like being who I am.

37:42

I would just like to be able to be who I am without

37:45

the consequences of oppressive systems

37:47

and what those systems put onto me. What

37:49

do you think of when you think of the future, Who

37:52

does it include? Who feels safe

37:54

there? Who supported there? Star

37:57

Trek help the generation of activists like m

37:59

Okay and Blair imagine a future

38:01

that included them, and imagine

38:04

a future where they could break out of the oppressive

38:06

systems that keep us all from being free. And

38:09

that is a future worth fighting for. Got

38:14

a story about an interesting thing in tech, or just want

38:16

to say hi. You can reach us at Hello at

38:18

tang godi dot com. You can also find transcripts

38:20

for today's episode at tangdi dot com.

38:22

There Are No Girls on the Internet was created by me bridget

38:25

Tod. It's a production of iHeart Radio and Unboss

38:27

creative Jonathan Strickland as our executive

38:29

producer. Terry Harrison is our producer

38:31

and sound engineer. Michael Amato is

38:33

our contributing producer. I'm your host, bridget

38:36

Toad. If you want to help us grow,

38:38

rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For

38:40

more podcasts from I heart Radio, check out the iHeart

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