0:00

This episode talks about sexual assault, murder,

0:03

and suicide.

0:08

There Are No Girls on the Internet as a production of I Heart

0:11

Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm

0:16

Bridget Todd and this is There Are No Girls on the

0:19

Internet. Vanessa

0:22

Gien was a twenty year old soldier in the

0:24

U. S. Army. She loved sports.

0:27

She played soccer and liked to jog. In

0:29

April, she went missing from the Fort

0:31

Hood military base in Texas. On

0:35

her remains were confirmed to have been found. Here's

0:38

her sister talking to ABC News. She

0:41

was taking away from me the most horrible

0:43

way, Yet they take

0:46

it if it was a joke. My sister's no choke.

0:48

My sister to human means just like me, her,

0:51

all of us. Aaron David

0:53

Robinson, another soldier, killed

0:55

himself as police for trying to take him into custody

0:57

for her murder. Before she eyed,

1:00

Gian told her mother that she was being sexually

1:02

harassed. Forthood

1:04

is one of the highest rates of murder, sexual

1:06

assault, and harassment in the army. Online,

1:11

many other soldiers used what happen to her to

1:14

come forward to share their own stories about

1:16

sexual harassment in the military, using

1:18

the call I Am Vanessa Gien. Her

1:22

family is demanding changes and how the military

1:24

handles sexual harassment complaints, and

1:26

protesters around the country amplified

1:28

her family's demands for answers and change.

1:31

Gian's death is a terrible tragedy, and

1:34

for as many people used her death to highlight

1:36

important conversations about how our country's

1:38

institutions fail the very people who fight

1:41

for our country, others

1:43

used it to fuel hate and confusion. Online

1:47

researchers and digital activists are seeing

1:49

the way her tragic story is being used

1:51

to feel disinformation in Latin X online

1:53

spaces. Because her killer

1:56

was believed to be a black man, Big

1:58

Facebook pages began promoting stories about

2:00

Vaness's death as a way to sew divisions

2:02

between Latin X communities and Black Lives

2:04

Matter advocates. Unfortunately,

2:08

when it comes to how disinformation spreads online,

2:10

this isn't at all uncommon. Bad

2:13

actors pick up on sensitive or emotionally

2:15

charged topics involving wedge issues

2:17

like race and use them to spread fear,

2:19

confusion, and suspicion among each

2:21

other. They often exploit

2:23

existing fractures between communities to pit marginalized

2:26

groups against each other. But because

2:28

we don't actually spend a lot of time talking about marginalized

2:31

communities in general, let alone

2:33

how our identities shape the online experience. We

2:35

aren't talking about the big threat this tactic

2:38

presents, and it's a problem.

2:40

So the first time that actually became

2:43

aware of how targeted

2:45

are folks are was

2:47

in two sixteen when I

2:49

saw someone on my Facebook

2:52

posted a picture

2:54

of an ICE agent or

2:57

someone who looked like an ICE agent with

2:59

sort of the eyes, um, you

3:01

know, acronymy the back of his jacket

3:04

arresting someone at what looked like

3:07

was a polling location and

3:11

um, it was something along the lines, and someone had

3:13

posted it said be careful everyone, ICE

3:15

is you know, around the

3:18

voting locations, and

3:20

you know, when I looked at it closely, I was like, well,

3:22

this looks this picture looks photoshopped.

3:25

But that was sort of the first time that I

3:28

saw something that I was like, huh, they're

3:30

actually somebody's actually thinking

3:33

this true and kind of knows the

3:35

nerves in the of the community in terms

3:37

of the figure the figures that exist in our communities,

3:40

even though we all know that, you know, undocumented

3:42

people are not going to go vote, but

3:45

the message that we're trying to send is like,

3:47

you know, immigration is doing raids around voting

3:49

locations. You know, therefore people

3:52

might just be fearful

3:54

of going because you know, some folks are

3:56

living in mixed status families and so on and

3:58

so forth. So I was sort of the first time

4:01

that I saw something and it just made

4:03

me pause and think about the level

4:05

of disinformation that was spreading

4:08

targeting the Latino community. Vanessa

4:11

Cardinas is a long time activist

4:13

and policy expert. She's

4:15

seen the way that disinformation online plays

4:17

on our community sphere to create confusion,

4:21

but when she saw the way again stories being used

4:24

online, she was shocked. So

4:26

that was actually really shocking,

4:29

UM, because obviously

4:31

the Vanessa Gillian case has touched

4:33

such a nerve in the community in

4:35

the sense of you know, this the

4:38

soldier that you know has dedicated

4:41

her life for a country. So I guess

4:43

I would say, you know, probably like

4:46

two weeks, well maybe like a

4:48

little bit right after they identify

4:51

the suspect of the case,

4:53

you know, I would say dates after it I

4:56

started seeing some of these um

4:59

pictures in me is about UM

5:03

pretty much about the you know, the

5:05

the suspected killer, and

5:08

just driving this message of you

5:10

know, black and brown tensions

5:13

and just amplifying the

5:15

sort of the message or you know, where

5:17

where is the Black Lives Matter movement when

5:19

it comes to a Latino that has

5:22

been killed by a black

5:24

person. So that

5:27

was again really eye

5:30

opening. But I also feel it

5:33

was at least for me, by then, I was already

5:35

just I've been aware more of sort of disinformation

5:38

that's been spreading, so I was not

5:40

surprised. But again, I think it

5:42

just speaks to the level of

5:45

this strategy that's out there about

5:47

amplifying fear, distrust

5:51

and just creating wedges between these communities,

5:54

which I think we're going to see morals

5:56

and there are these bad actors are really using

5:59

every opportunity they can to

6:01

to actually, you know, create this wedges.

6:04

Facebook groups with big followings and reach

6:07

made posts about Gien's death asking

6:09

why the Latin Next community should support Black Lives

6:11

Matter when a black man killed one of their own.

6:14

The intention is pretty clear. Rather than

6:16

amplifying her important story and her family's

6:19

calls for justice and change, is an attempt

6:21

to use her story to so mistrust and animosity

6:24

between marginalized communities. Why,

6:27

researchers say it has to do with the upcoming

6:29

election. A Cobra Lacona

6:32

is the disinformation research lead at ecky Slabs,

6:35

a group that works to build an active Latino electorate.

6:38

His team saw pretty much the same thing she

6:40

did, that Gian's story was being used

6:42

to criticize Black Lives Matter and the protests

6:45

that followed the death of unarmed black people like

6:47

George Floyd by police. We started

6:49

seeing conservative on X accounts, including

6:52

you know, Spanish language pages, trying to

6:55

build racial tension between black and LATINX

6:57

communities after they found

6:59

her body and her death was confirmed, and so

7:01

we saw conservative Latin X actors starting

7:04

to criticize Black Lives Matter for not

7:06

protesting her death and for staying silent. And

7:09

you know, after they found her body, the man who was linked

7:11

to her murder killed himself

7:13

either the same day or the next day, and so we saw conservative

7:15

Latin X accounts promoting you know, race

7:18

blindness around gain by amplifying the

7:20

fact that the killer

7:23

was a black man and that you know, they started promoting

7:25

all Lives Matter narratives and things like that. So

7:27

we saw you know, different memes

7:29

comparing the black man who

7:31

killed thee into the white police officer and essentially

7:34

saying, you know, promoting an arave that race

7:36

has nothing to do with Floyd's killing. Or

7:38

we also saw bad actors, you know, asking

7:40

why Latinos weren't

7:43

We're protesting for BLM, but weren't protesting

7:45

for other Latinos like Manessa. And

7:47

so you know, there was a lot of

7:50

racial tension building early on

7:52

once you know, reports came once

7:54

reports came out and they found her body. So do you

7:56

think the people who were running these accounts actually

7:58

cared about sharing gian story? I

8:00

mean, I think they're definitely trying to make

8:03

it like a wedge issue. And we often see

8:05

even in just in other narratives, bad actors trying

8:08

to you know, seek to

8:10

inflame pre existing tensions

8:12

within in between communities. So

8:15

you know, part of their goal is to

8:17

depress votes and more progressive

8:19

communities, including the LATINEX community, And

8:21

so if they can build a wedge between black

8:24

and line X voters, that can you know, potentially drive

8:26

some of those people to Trump in November. But

8:28

I think one big problem here is that, you know, within the

8:31

LATINX community, we've kind

8:33

of failed to confront the anti blackness

8:35

that exists in our own community, and I think

8:37

the far right definitely takes advantage of that to

8:40

stoke racial tension. So,

8:42

you know, one thing is important that we start acknowledging

8:44

the anti blackness that exists in our community

8:46

and show unity. Um.

8:49

And you know, we should especially be doing this because again,

8:52

like black and LITEX are not mutually exclusive, you

8:54

know, the far right and many people in the LATX community

8:57

tend to ignore the after latin X community,

9:00

and so especially they're right, you know, the right is effectively

9:02

excluding them from the from their narratives

9:05

and we should ignore. And I don't think we should be ignoring

9:07

that. So like going back to Van Vanessa's

9:10

death specifically, um,

9:12

you know, I think with an increase and

9:14

attention on Black Lives Matter and even you

9:17

know, brands responding to current

9:20

moments of racial justice, we see a

9:22

lot of bad actors looking for opportunities

9:24

to create division among communities of color.

9:28

Let's take a quick break

9:37

center back. Facebook

9:39

is a big part of how this all goes down. For

9:42

instance, the pro Trump Facebook group

9:44

The Conservative Choice has over a hundred thousand

9:46

followers, and many of their posts

9:48

are dedicated to criticizing black celebrities

9:50

like Colin caprett black Lives Matter

9:52

and calls for racial justice. One

9:55

post even accuses Facebook, the company

9:57

itself, of supporting racism

10:00

by telling people to avoid Latino businesses

10:02

because of an initiative highlighting black owned business

10:05

Similarly, online protesters

10:08

calls for businesses to hire more black people

10:10

get twisted into them calling for businesses not

10:13

to hire Latinos. Many

10:15

of the other posts on the page our

10:17

videos or images depicting violent attacks

10:19

on Latinos or Latino owned businesses by

10:21

black people to drive home the idea that

10:24

the Latin X community shouldn't trust

10:26

or support the Black community like

10:28

a cobo. Vanessa also sees

10:31

the ways that anti blackness and the erasure

10:33

of Afro latin X identities have

10:36

presented fractures and tensions and

10:38

communities of color that bad actors

10:40

can exploit online. So,

10:44

Vanessa, what kind of content have you seen online being

10:46

used to so division within communities of color? Yes,

10:49

so we're seeing a lot of um

10:52

the stories for example, UM

10:54

of black men violently attacking

10:57

Latino men, you know, very graphic

11:00

valent post pictures. Um.

11:03

That's one thing, and and I should say something

11:05

also bridge and that is that we

11:08

know that there are black people in the Latino community,

11:10

Like we have a rich history

11:12

of Afro you know, of African

11:15

descent in the community, whether it's the Caribbean

11:17

or pro and I'm from Bolivia and even and even

11:19

in Bolivia we have Bolivians

11:21

who are of African descent. So

11:24

you know. But but the way this um

11:27

um discurrent disinformation efforts,

11:30

you know, what they're trying to do is just you know, make

11:32

us look like the other right, like separate

11:34

us. So you do have sort of, like

11:36

I was saying, this really graphic

11:39

posts just amplifying

11:42

violence that is incurred. That is

11:45

how they describe it or in how they posted you know,

11:47

by black men. There's

11:49

also a lot of content out there about

11:52

painting the Black Lives Movement about

11:54

you know, that is violent. Um

11:57

they have a lot of content that's showing,

11:59

for example that the Black Lives Movement

12:02

protesters are destroying churches

12:04

or burning bibles. So really

12:07

going at sort of you know, some of the themes

12:09

of you know, Latino community. It's

12:12

very you know, faith center, and

12:14

so they're trying to sort of agreeing to go

12:16

at this pressure point and hit

12:19

those nerves where the community on things

12:21

that the community cares about we

12:24

are on the alien case. There's

12:26

there's been a lot of content out there

12:28

amplifying that her that that

12:31

the alleged killer was black, and promoting the

12:33

all Lives Matter narrative and questioning

12:35

how come the black Lives

12:37

movement doesn't show up for Latinos

12:39

when Latinos are being killed and so on and so

12:42

forth. So that's the

12:44

type of content we're seeing now and

12:47

UM and again we know that every time

12:49

there's a flashpoint or every time

12:51

there's something that's happening just

12:55

you know, a national the national level or even

12:57

at the local level. I mean, there was a there were some posts

13:01

I think it was, UM, I want to say

13:03

in Luisiana about just

13:07

about the Black Lives Matter movement.

13:10

UM. I think that there was a demand that,

13:12

you know, all businesses should hire

13:14

people of color. And but

13:17

then how they were how the bots

13:19

or the sort of the disinformation but actors

13:21

were trying to frame it was that the black

13:23

Lives movement, we're forcing Latino

13:26

business owners to hire, not

13:28

to hire you know, non Latinos,

13:31

so things like that, right, So they're trying to again

13:34

press this UM this this

13:36

really um specific

13:38

issues in the community where they know that

13:41

it hits a nerve and just just amplify

13:43

those. And we know we're gonna be getting more

13:45

of those as things get

13:48

just more heated as we come closer to the

13:50

election. We all truly

13:52

blessed at the same time to have a

13:55

leader like President Trump, who

13:57

is a builder bad actors

13:59

online sees on conversations

14:01

that require sensitivity or nuance to

14:03

talk about, just like they had no problem

14:05

seizing on Gian's death to push harmful

14:08

narratives online. After Goya

14:10

CEO faced backlash for praising Trump

14:12

earlier this year, some accounts

14:14

purporting to belong to Latino social media users

14:17

used it to spread accusations of a mob of

14:19

PC bullies attacking a hard working

14:21

community of color. But

14:24

Wind Black Polente, a group that

14:26

trains voters to identify disinformation, found

14:29

that some of the accounts pushing this narrative were actually

14:31

bots online.

14:35

The Goya controversy appeared to boil down

14:37

to Black Lives Matter versus the Latin next

14:39

community. Ashley

14:41

Bryant works with Wind Black Polente, and

14:44

she says social media platforms aren't

14:46

doing enough to curb the spread of this kind of disinformation.

14:49

We just experienced a couple of weeks

14:51

ago when the Goya CEO

14:55

you know, decided to share

14:57

his support for Trump, UM

14:59

and that came a controversy in itself,

15:01

but also unleashed a

15:04

right wing operation around

15:07

UM, you know, trying to really disparage

15:10

the true message. You know, Julian Castro

15:13

and UM AOC you

15:15

know, really stepped up and and shared you

15:17

know, if you share the values of Trump, you

15:20

are not supporting our community. And

15:22

UM, you know, we saw a bot

15:26

be unleashed on Facebook within

15:28

you know, a couple of hours, and

15:31

it took a couple of days before Facebook

15:33

was able to actually remove these

15:36

um you know, fake comments, fake

15:39

agents. UM, and our operations

15:41

saw it within a day, right, And so it's

15:43

just you know, there's hundreds of people in their

15:46

in their organization that are allegedly

15:48

focused on this, but yet we were

15:50

able to identify that these were boughts

15:52

and just under a couple of hours. And so

15:55

you know, it really is um

15:58

disheartening to see that these

16:00

companies aren't really ready to step up

16:02

into this moment. This isn't a partisan

16:05

issue, right, Misinformation and

16:07

disinformation is not a

16:09

political issue. It is literally to

16:11

suppress entire communities

16:14

that need to exercise their right to vote,

16:16

and if these tech companies don't see it that way,

16:18

you really have to question what their purposes are.

16:21

But that's also saw the way that conversations

16:24

around Goya oversimplified the narrative

16:26

online. But she says

16:28

the narratives pushing division, even

16:31

when Trump himself picks up on it, probably

16:33

won't resonate much with most folks in the

16:35

Latin next community. I mean,

16:37

I think they're trying really hard to sort of make

16:39

the connection. Obviously, even the Trump administration

16:43

right picked up on it, um, getting Ivanka

16:45

to post that ridiculous UM tweet

16:48

with her holding um a kind of

16:50

Goya being. Again, I think

16:52

they're just sort of trying to amplify

16:55

the wedges and just really indicates

16:58

of Goya. You know, I think that the average let you

17:00

know, who's you know again, losing

17:02

their jobs because of COVID and

17:05

just trying to figure out how they're going to survive

17:07

this pandemic. This is not something that resonates

17:10

with them. UM.

17:12

But I do think again, there's online

17:14

there's just this effort to say, you know, Democrats

17:17

are against business owners, Democrats

17:19

are trying to shut this down when

17:22

we know that that's you know that that was not the

17:24

case. I mean, people have the thing

17:26

that people had issue with, where the comments

17:28

of the going a president who again is supporting

17:31

Trump, and Trump we know is

17:33

driving a very dic divisive

17:36

and just really anti Latino agenda. So

17:38

that that's the point. And I think part of this again

17:40

there is this information effort is just to confuse

17:42

the truth, right, it's to just to to take

17:45

attention from the real issues and just

17:47

focusing on sort of the specific

17:49

narratives that benefits them. And

17:52

it goes along to sort of their their overall

17:54

frame that Democrats are socialists.

17:57

The Democrats, you know, don't

17:59

believe in the Democrats,

18:01

you know, are just just

18:03

driving a socialist agenda and they don't

18:05

want anyone to be successful. So

18:08

so again it just goes

18:10

off to the broader narratives that are trying

18:12

to push. Once an official

18:14

Trump Facebook page or even Trump himself

18:17

signal boosts these narratives, they can

18:19

spread far and wide. Sometimes

18:21

it's not even helpful to know where it's coming from, because

18:24

anything that's getting a lot of engagement, it's going to circulate

18:27

pretty far. You know, like Trump, for

18:29

example, is the biggest amplifier of this info and

18:31

it allows other bad actors to

18:34

follow him, which can you know, really increase conversations

18:37

around certain topics. But you know,

18:39

when it comes to a lot in x spaces. There's a network

18:41

of conservative lat X Facebook

18:43

groups that are part of this movement

18:46

called Lexi, and they tend to work together

18:48

and you know, coordinated tax across their

18:50

network of pages. So the luxA movement

18:52

itself, it gained prominence in eighteen

18:55

as you know, an effort to help Latino's exit the Democratic

18:57

Party or the left and kind of embrace more conservative

19:00

values. Uh there's actually

19:02

another one called lex It which is a little more popular, and

19:05

it's kind of like equivalent for the black community and

19:07

trying to push more black

19:09

people to embrace conservative values.

19:11

But the network of lex It Facebook

19:14

pages, they have a wide range in their audiences, so

19:16

like depending on certain Facebook pages, some have hundreds

19:18

of thousands of followers, others have tens

19:21

of thousands of followers. But they frequently share

19:24

you know, misleading and factually incorrect

19:27

narratives and they tend to coordinate

19:29

within each other, but also with the Latinos

19:31

for Trump network, which is an

19:33

official like Latin X page for the for

19:36

the Trump campaign. So you know, when they're

19:38

able to coordinate with each other, they're able to you know, push narratives

19:40

to more feeds and allow more

19:42

people to see it. You might expect

19:44

to see messages about people on the left being godless

19:47

socialists who hate hard working business owners

19:49

from a Facebook page that is explicitly advocating

19:52

for Trump. But a Cobo says

19:54

that pages that appear to be nonpartisan can

19:56

sometimes present an even bigger threat

19:59

when it comes to this out of harmful narratives online.

20:02

Yeah, so I think the

20:04

reality is that we often see less

20:07

partisan LANTICX pages help spread disinformation,

20:10

especially around conversations

20:12

that either resonate with the Latin

20:14

X community or conversations in

20:17

the mainstream media. And the real problem

20:19

is that these nonpartisan spaces they

20:22

often become more dangerous in the far

20:24

right spaces because they appear

20:26

to be more trustworthy messengers and people

20:28

tend to believe or trust what

20:31

these pages are promoting. So,

20:34

I mean, even around narratives around being it

20:37

reached less partisan Lantic spaces. And

20:39

for example, I saw one Facebook page that

20:41

was intended to bring you know, Mexicans together and

20:44

it has hundreds of thousands of followers, and

20:46

they're typically posting you know, more cultural

20:48

type things, but they started posting narratives

20:51

around being that period to try to build tension

20:53

within the Latics community. And

20:57

again, so like when they do that, these

21:00

people who are following these pages, they start believing

21:02

in some of these messages because you know, they're

21:04

not in those pages for partisan reasons.

21:06

So these less partisan online

21:09

spaces that are created where

21:11

people feel like there are a part of a

21:13

community, but then this information

21:15

comes in, it's like the stuff around like the stuff around

21:17

in they're they're more likely to believe this these

21:20

narratives. One of our concerns

21:23

as we look at how this information

21:25

is spreading is the fact

21:27

that we're seeing some of this content migrate

21:30

from very partisan pages

21:33

to nonpartisan pages. Especially

21:35

around the Venessa Gilian case and

21:38

her murder and all of that. We saw,

21:41

for example, a lot of Mexican

21:44

organizing pages, you know that

21:47

hometown associations and

21:49

people who really were following the case super

21:51

closely to start picking up some of these

21:54

right and and they have you

21:56

know, thousands of retweets, and

21:59

and that's the concern, right and

22:01

and again it's because it

22:04

is. I think that also the message for

22:06

us, for progressives is that it

22:09

is so important to

22:11

magnify our message, our message

22:13

of solidarity, our message of

22:16

supporting each other's movements,

22:19

our message of you know that we're all in

22:21

this together. And I think that

22:23

is the real that's

22:26

the real challenge for us, because we're not going to be

22:28

able to you know, what's happening

22:30

on the on the right, or in the circles or among

22:32

these bad actors. We're not really

22:35

going to be able to

22:37

minimize that. What we

22:39

can do is inoculate ourselves

22:41

and our community against it, and

22:44

that is by building trust

22:47

affirmatively and intentionally

22:51

and elevating trusted voices

22:54

so that when somebody sees this, you

22:56

know, disposed, they are like, wait, but you

22:58

know, I saw some but some another post

23:00

from someone in my community that I respect

23:03

and I know, and they are posting

23:05

positive content that it speaks about unity.

23:08

So I think for us that's the challenge,

23:10

and how are we magnifying the positive

23:12

vision and the positive content

23:15

um to actually inoculate

23:17

ourselves and inoculate our communities

23:19

from this content. And it's not easy. I'm not saying, you

23:21

know, and I think progressives right now we have our hands

23:24

full. But I think that's the challenge,

23:27

um that we need to uh

23:29

create content, amplify content,

23:32

not go down the rabbit hole. You know.

23:34

One of the actually the hardest things about

23:36

this information that we often

23:38

share with progressive is don't amplify

23:40

it because and that is actually

23:43

harder than it sounds, because sometimes people,

23:45

in the effort not to amplify it,

23:47

they actually retweet it, you know, because

23:50

there's or they reposted because they're trying

23:52

to debunk the claim. But

23:54

just by really you know, retweeting

23:56

about it or reposting, you're actually,

23:59

even if you're saying this is not true, you are

24:01

in fact getting more eyes on

24:03

that post. And that's you know,

24:05

that's the problem.

24:08

More after this quick break,

24:17

let's get right back to it. Talking

24:19

about disinformation online is difficult,

24:22

and because of the nature of algorithms, when

24:24

you try to respond to correct the record, you

24:26

could actually be accidentally amplifying

24:29

it because you're giving it more engagement. It's

24:31

also important to keep in mind that this isn't just stuff

24:33

happening online. Disinformation

24:36

has real consequences because it translates

24:38

to real world behavior and right now,

24:41

with the Latin X community representing a growing

24:43

and important voting block, it

24:45

has big implications for the upcoming election.

24:49

A Cobo says, this kind of disinformation is

24:51

meant to push Latin X voters to either

24:53

vote for Trump or to not vote at

24:55

all, like that phony picture of

24:57

immigration arrests outside of polling places

24:59

that Vanessa mentioned earlier. This

25:01

is kind of personal for me. I've seen

25:04

the way dangerous disinformation has impacts on

25:06

my own community. Communities

25:09

of color have good reason to be skeptical of

25:11

our political and medical institutions, institutions

25:15

that historically we can't always trust.

25:18

But COVID has just made everything worse. I

25:21

see memes spreading false information about

25:23

COVID and the election being shared

25:26

about people that I love, and it just makes

25:28

me feel so frustrated. Yeah,

25:31

you talked earlier about the importance of inoculating

25:33

your community against this information, and

25:36

I really felt that. You

25:38

know, my people are black, were from

25:41

the South. When it comes to things like voting, it

25:43

is not always as easy as just going to

25:45

vote. You know, in these

25:47

states, there are voter ide laws

25:49

and other kinds of barriers to just going

25:52

and casting your ballot. So

25:54

I really see a lot of disinformation being spread around

25:57

voting and particularly now with COVID.

26:00

I've seen a lot of elders in

26:02

my own community posting things

26:04

that I know where rooted in this very

26:07

real fear around

26:09

COVID, and they they I understand where it

26:11

comes from. You know, COVID has ravaged black

26:13

and brown community. So these so these books

26:15

are like, their concerns are

26:17

very valid. It's been a frustrating

26:20

challenge to acknowledge

26:23

and validate these very real fears

26:25

in my own community, while also

26:28

not letting people that I care

26:30

about give over to fear and

26:33

spread harmful, in correct information

26:36

because they're fearful. It's been a challenge.

26:40

No, and I and I am so um

26:42

connect with you on the point, and I

26:45

can totally relate. Um. You know,

26:47

I am first generation. Most of

26:49

my family or like my aunts

26:51

and uncles, they came here when they're adults,

26:54

so they are just you know, this is a I

26:56

think it's really important for us to realize

26:58

that this is a very difficult moment. It

27:00

is a very confusing moment, you

27:02

know. And I think especially the older generation,

27:05

they're just like they just don't know what's

27:07

happening. You know, and they're they're fearful for

27:10

the future. And there you

27:12

know, they see what's happening, you know, in

27:14

our country with Trump, they see COVID, they

27:16

see their employment gains being

27:18

a race, they see their incomes being

27:20

a race, and they are help

27:23

you know, we're the communities that are feeling

27:25

the brunt of the impact of the pandemic.

27:28

Now on top of that you add this

27:30

whole you know, the the new process

27:32

of vote by mail. Right, it's it's a new process

27:34

for a lot of folks that they're not familiar how to

27:37

you know, request a ballot they

27:39

have they have never voted by mail, many

27:41

of them. And then the other the other piece

27:43

of this is even for young people like

27:46

oh yeah, they don't carry around the book of stamps

27:48

like some of us did. Right, So

27:51

when you think about it, you know, it really presents

27:53

a lot of challenges and

27:56

that's why, you know, I think that again

27:59

part of our challenge, just progressives

28:01

is you know, how are we what what voter

28:03

education efforts are we implementing

28:06

even in this era of COVID when everything

28:08

has to be done virtually. I

28:11

think that's going to force us to innovate.

28:13

But also to have those conversations

28:15

that we've been putting off, because

28:18

I do believe that the best way to inoculate

28:20

people is to just have an honest

28:23

conversation. And you're

28:25

not going to be able to convince your aunt

28:27

or uncle the first in the first time, but

28:30

I think just started to have those conversations

28:32

about what's happening in our country, you

28:34

know, why, why their their voice is

28:36

so important, UM and

28:39

and how this process is changing, and

28:41

just repeating that message over

28:43

and over again. I think it's one of the most

28:46

effective strategies and

28:48

and and again. I like I said earlier,

28:50

the best way to inoculate yourself is like

28:52

when you have a trusted messenger,

28:55

when you have someone who's in the community

28:57

who people go to for information. Those

29:00

are I think, um,

29:03

those are the people that are going to help

29:05

us, UM face

29:07

this really on slaw of this information

29:11

because they are the ones that

29:13

the community listens to. And that's why we need

29:15

to empower those folks with the tools that they

29:18

need, an information that they need, and

29:21

you know, just help drive that message in

29:24

that positiveness and message that I was speaking

29:26

about earlier. M. So,

29:28

what can everyday people do to

29:31

help curb the spread of disinformation and misinformation,

29:34

particularly in marginalized communities. Yeah,

29:37

well, the first thing I would say is just really

29:39

be careful about what you're amplifying

29:41

online and what might seem harmless

29:43

to you, Um, it's

29:45

probably not harmless, right,

29:47

So just really always be mindful

29:49

of your sources and the message

29:52

that the messages that you're posting. So

29:54

that would be the very first thing. The

29:56

second thing is, you know, it's informing

29:59

your also, especially when we talk about voting

30:02

and because we know that's actually going to be a

30:04

big target of the attacks

30:06

and the disinformation moving forward, especially

30:09

as we get closer to election, and especially

30:11

because the new processes around

30:13

both by mail, So really informing yourself

30:15

themselves about the the deadlines

30:18

and the requirements on voting absentee

30:20

or voting by mail, so that you can

30:22

share that information um

30:25

with your community and your loved ones.

30:28

And and then the third thing is

30:30

again you know, just trying to amplify

30:32

a positive message, a message of

30:34

unity and solidarity. I think if we

30:36

all we we do that,

30:39

we will go it will go a long way. Because

30:41

right now, but actors are trying to amplify

30:44

fear. Therefore we need to amplify

30:46

a positive message, a positive vision

30:48

for a movement and for our country

30:50

moving forward. Ashley's team

30:53

when Black Polante is taking this message to

30:55

heart. Rather than waiting for tech

30:57

leaders like Mark Zuckerberg to do the right thing

31:00

and curb the spread of harmful disinformation

31:02

on their platforms, her team is established

31:05

a disinformation war room

31:07

to train Black and Latin X voters and

31:09

other grassroots advocacy organizations

31:11

to spot disinformation themselves, and

31:14

provides messaging tools to counter with accurate

31:17

information without amplifying it. Our

31:19

strategy is really teaching people that

31:22

we don't want to amplify the misinformation

31:25

right that is counterproductive.

31:27

But what we do want to do is put in the

31:29

space counter narratives while also

31:32

educating folks. And so we have a

31:34

daily war room where

31:36

we bring our team together to

31:39

go over analysis, go over

31:41

our research briefs, and so it really

31:43

adds another level of authenticity

31:45

because it's not just you know, our campaign

31:48

that's trying to come in and talk to folks,

31:50

but we're working with these organizations that have

31:52

created a sense of community with with

31:54

their not just their online audiences,

31:57

but you know, the citizens within

31:59

their regions. UM and we're able

32:01

to really spread this message of like, look, this

32:04

is how you identify. These people

32:06

are trolls, They are bought. They

32:08

are not trying to appeal

32:10

to you in any way beyond trying

32:12

to mislead you. And you should know

32:14

this. And the only way to fight back is to register

32:17

and vote. Loosely translated,

32:20

the slang term polente means

32:22

to go forward, and Ashley's

32:24

team at Wind Black Polente are working

32:27

to help communities of color go

32:29

forward stronger in solidarity. You

32:32

know, I can't help, but notice that your organization has

32:35

two names, Wind Black and Polente.

32:38

You know, we see these narratives being pushed

32:40

by bad actors that there lots the next

32:42

community in the black community, we can't work

32:45

together. We have to be living in fear

32:47

of each other. We have to be suspicious of each other. Not

32:49

only there's this framework obviously erase the

32:51

fact that there are plenty of acro Latino's out there, but

32:55

it's also just not true. And I

32:57

guess my question is how do we get to a

32:59

place where we can present the truth that

33:01

our communities are stronger together? Absolutely,

33:04

And I mean you to have my answer. And in

33:07

the last um in your last sentence,

33:09

because simply that's the truth. We are

33:11

stronger together and they know that, UM,

33:14

and so they want to do anything to divide

33:16

these two communities. And and you

33:19

know, it's it's simply just discussing quite honestly.

33:21

I mean we most

33:24

recently we're seeing this misinformation

33:26

around. You know, the Black Lives Matter movement

33:28

did put out a letter that was

33:30

that was UM kind of describing

33:32

some of their demands, and

33:34

we're seeing a lot of right wing operatives

33:37

that are bowling it down,

33:39

taking out a lot of the context with

33:41

within the letter and sharing

33:43

that the Black Lives Matter movement are are

33:45

against immigrants or UM,

33:48

they are you know, doing muffia

33:51

tactics, if if you will, which is

33:53

simply just not the truth. And

33:55

they're spreading these untruths in

33:57

a very broad manner, UM. And

33:59

so you know, it's really important for

34:02

us, and I'm glad that you underscored

34:04

the polone because we do have a Latin

34:06

X focus and and because we want

34:09

to bring our two communities together in this

34:11

fight. There's so many critical issues

34:14

um that both communities share, right,

34:16

but also neither of these communities

34:18

are monolithic, and it's it's it's

34:21

really almost um

34:23

embarrassing to see that a lot

34:25

of these operatives think of our

34:27

communities as such, and so they're

34:30

doing these tactics to really,

34:32

you know, it's almost like this distributed racism

34:35

um to really put these two communities

34:37

against each other. And so we're

34:40

really building a sense of

34:42

let's educate uh, Black

34:44

voters, Latin X voters, Let's educate

34:47

folks on what are the issues that really matter

34:49

to us. Who are the leaders

34:51

in this space that are supporting our issues,

34:54

are supporting our values, and then

34:56

also recognizing that again we're

34:58

not monolithic. We need to speak to voters

35:01

as individuals and we're not just

35:03

pitting everyone and you

35:05

know, against each other. We're working under

35:07

an administration right now that is

35:10

trying to divide this country at

35:12

every turn, and so it's really

35:14

important that as we are mobilizing

35:17

and reaching voters that at every step

35:19

of the way, we are trying to unite folks

35:21

under one goal, which is to make sure

35:23

that we have a democracy that represents our

35:25

communities, that represents our issues,

35:28

and that is going to fight to actually

35:30

move our communities forward. Vanessa

35:33

Gien deserved better, and

35:35

today she deserves better than having

35:37

her story fuel mistrust and hate

35:39

in our communities, and we too,

35:41

deserve better than being fed the myth that

35:44

our communities can only exist in conflict

35:46

with one another. Our oppression, like

35:49

our freedom, is all linked, and until

35:51

we're all free, none of us is free.

35:54

To make sure that you and your community have the right

35:56

information you need to vote, go to vote

35:58

dot org. Got

36:02

a story about an interesting thing in tech, or just want

36:04

to say hi, You can reach us at Hello at tang

36:06

godi dot com. You can also find transcripts

36:08

for today's episode at tangdi dot com.

36:10

There Are No Girls on the Internet was created by me Bridget

36:12

Tod. It's a production of I Heart Radio and

36:15

Unboss creative Jonathan Strickland as

36:17

our executive producer, Terry Harrison as our

36:19

producer and sound engineer. Michael

36:21

Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your

36:23

host, bridget Todd. If you want

36:25

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36:28

For more podcasts from I Heeart Radio, check out the

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