0:02

You're

0:02

listening to There's a Better Way,

0:05

smart talk on healthcare and technology.

0:09

If you're up for energizing and story

0:11

driven conversations with national healthcare

0:13

leaders driving industry innovation across

0:16

the country, then you are in the right

0:18

place.

0:24

I'm

0:24

very excited to welcome Dr. Gita

0:26

Nair, also known as Dr.

0:28

G, to our podcast. When

0:31

it comes to the impact of technology

0:33

on healthcare, Dr. G was

0:36

there at the beginning. She

0:38

saw firsthand how the medical profession

0:41

went from physical paper to

0:43

electronic health records not that

0:45

long ago, and she placed her

0:47

bets early on in health IT.

0:51

As she says, I saw the potential

0:53

and promise of this better option

0:56

for connecting data. And

0:58

as we connect data and communications, we

1:01

build trust, which is fundamental

1:03

in healthcare. For

1:05

Dr. G, it's about battling misinformation,

1:09

which can be life or death. And

1:11

it's about building trust in the doctor

1:13

patient relationship.

1:15

So with that said, let's dive right

1:17

in. I am

1:20

so excited to welcome the one and

1:22

only Dr. Gita Nair,

1:24

also known as Dr. G, to our podcast

1:27

today. Thanks

1:28

so much for having me, Melanie.

1:30

Well, this podcast is about finding

1:33

a better way in healthcare, and your

1:35

entire career has been about just

1:37

that. I want to get into your work

1:39

about the pandemic, your

1:41

stint at Salesforce, and your upcoming

1:44

book, among other things. But

1:46

first, let's start where you got started.

1:49

You're a board certified rheumatologist. How

1:52

did you become interested in medicine and specifically

1:55

rheumatology? Well, look,

1:57

it was definitely not intentional

1:59

to become. of the doctor for the phone company.

2:01

My parents don't let me live that down. So,

2:05

you know, like everything, it was happenstance.

2:08

I think like you, I realized very

2:10

early on as a young physician

2:12

that there had to be a better way. And

2:14

remember, I'm that generation of physicians that went

2:16

from paper to digital. So

2:19

while I was learning to be a doctor, I was learning an electronic

2:21

health record for the first time. And I

2:24

really just saw the potential

2:26

and the promise of this better

2:29

option for connecting data, connecting

2:32

communications, being able to analyze

2:34

data. And so I really made a big bet on

2:36

unhealth tech very

2:37

early on in my career. Right. So

2:39

you saw the transition

2:42

literally while you're being trained.

2:45

So what did that look like? It was hard. And

2:47

I also went to medical school in Miami, so you had

2:49

to learn Spanish all at the same time. So it was definitely

2:52

a lot at once. But what it does

2:54

is it forces you to critically think,

2:57

right, because you're in this this zone of

2:59

learning and learning how to be a doctor. So you're constantly

3:01

questioning things. And, you know,

3:04

part of your training is they're constantly questioning you. And so

3:06

it did. It kind of was the perfect

3:09

storm to learn and absorb,

3:11

but to also say how do I what do I want

3:13

to be? How do I want to contribute? How do I want

3:15

to show up as a physician? And

3:17

rheumatology for me, just from a specialty

3:19

perspective, was very

3:22

interesting to me. I love the immune system.

3:23

I think autoimmune diseases are fascinating.

3:26

We have a family

3:28

member with with an autoimmune disease. And,

3:31

you know, the thing about rheumatology is it's a very

3:33

esoteric space. And so

3:35

one of the big disconnects

3:38

in her case was the fact that the data

3:40

wasn't connected. The pulmonologist didn't know what the

3:42

cardiologist was doing. Cardiologist didn't know what the

3:45

endocrinologist, etc. And

3:47

so, again, I'm in my training. I'm seeing

3:49

this electronic health record. And I'm like, why would

3:51

this not just all be much better,

3:53

smoother, better patient experience?

3:56

So I really saw a lot of that very early

3:58

on, but I was just again. and happenstance, really

4:01

happenstance.

4:02

Well, so there are so many places

4:04

to dig in on your career and what you've been doing,

4:07

but let's start with your book.

4:09

You have written a book called Dead Wrong.

4:12

It's due out in the fall, I believe.

4:14

This has been, gosh, a two year and

4:17

running project. And I'm just so excited

4:20

to see it come to fruition. And

4:22

like everything in healthcare, you know this,

4:24

right? We have so much misinformation and disinformation.

4:27

Long before COVID, this is not a COVID

4:29

book. This is really a call to

4:31

action to say this is the issue of our lifetime.

4:35

Because of COVID, it's risen to that level

4:38

of awareness, but it's been ever present,

4:40

right? South Asian community, we

4:43

use ginger and turmeric for everything,

4:45

you know, it's supposed to cure cancer and

4:47

how many fallacies are there around pregnancy?

4:50

And is it a boy? Is it a girl? And yeah,

4:53

with diabetes, don't you just have to fast

4:56

and lose weight? There's just

4:58

so many, so many things that

5:00

really confuse people. And how

5:02

do you as a healthcare leader really

5:04

take the mandate around misinformation and

5:07

incorporate it into your digital strategy, into

5:09

your digital transformation strategy? Yeah,

5:12

so let's back up then. You mentioned a couple of

5:14

scenarios, but

5:15

let's like focus on the problem

5:18

then. It is really important

5:20

because I think whether you're a physician, whether

5:22

you're a patient, whether you're a business leader in the healthcare

5:24

world, certainly at SureScript, no one

5:26

wants to be the fool.

5:28

So how do you actually as

5:31

a healthcare organization put out the

5:33

right information? How do you build that trust? And

5:35

then how do you as a consumer know

5:37

what you're reading, know what you're sharing, know how

5:40

you're impacting your own family and

5:43

personal health.

5:44

Every one of our organizations, whether you work

5:46

at pharma, whether you're a payer, provider, we

5:49

all have marketing communications functions.

5:52

I think we've not really empowered

5:54

that trusted relationship between

5:56

the doctor and patient at scale the way

5:58

we could if we were...

5:59

smart about it, right? Because at the end of the day, no one

6:02

is trusting, forgive me, but

6:05

no one trusts their pharma company, no one trusts their

6:07

insurance company, no one even trusts the

6:09

hospital. But that individual

6:11

physician is

6:13

usually the reason you come back in spite

6:15

of the horrible waiting room experience, in spite

6:17

of the horrible administrative staff,

6:19

and the questions that we all get as

6:21

physicians.

6:22

Not that they're cookie cutter, but we do have some standard

6:24

things, right? For example, in rheumatology,

6:27

if you have a new diagnosis of lupus, here's

6:29

the three things I want you to know about. Why

6:31

would marketing and communications not come up with a

6:34

blog series? For me, right? It's

6:36

the partnership and the acknowledgement that

6:38

patients are going to get information, why

6:41

not from their doctor? And

6:43

why don't we make it easier for doctors who are not

6:45

trained to do these things, right? Just

6:48

like we would with any other KOL, any

6:51

other key opinion leader. And I actually think

6:53

pharma is well positioned for this. You

6:55

know, pharma is so close

6:57

to the research, so much of our research

6:59

and data comes from the pharma space,

7:02

but they're never going to be the voice,

7:06

they're never going to be the trusted partner.

7:08

So that middle layer is

7:11

so critical, but it's important for pharma

7:13

to help, right? And for there

7:15

to still be this

7:17

trusted relationship, but also within the

7:19

compliance of all of the regulations around

7:22

pharma and physicians,

7:25

there's space there. There's space if you can

7:27

be creative and ingenuitive

7:29

and authentic to creating that trust with

7:32

the patient.

7:34

Yeah, you're speaking my language right now, the marketing

7:36

communications, the snackables, the thought

7:38

leadership that you take the big research

7:41

and make it very understandable for

7:43

patients. Where

7:45

is that happening? Is that happening

7:47

in scale in places that you can

7:49

think of right now? I think it's happening in

7:51

pockets. And you're seeing this happen a lot

7:53

in TikTok, right? Where the physicians

7:55

that are building their businesses are really, really

7:58

successful in TikTok. One of the things we learned,

7:59

learned during COVID was

8:02

everything the Surgeon General said was so important.

8:05

And the thing is we have Surgeon Generals in every

8:07

zip code. In every zip code, physicians

8:10

have a following, whether it's OBGYN,

8:12

pediatrics. I mean, so many moms,

8:14

I will never leave my pediatrician. He

8:17

has gotten us through these stages

8:20

of childhood development. So how

8:22

do you, again, how do you turn that on

8:24

at scale in a really

8:26

deliberate way, not in these

8:29

pockets, but how do you get the hospital CEO

8:31

to say this is mission critical? Then the

8:33

second piece of that is not just the marketing

8:36

patient education piece, but then how do you turn that into

8:38

an appointment? How do you actually turn that

8:40

into an appointment? I mean, part of the work I'm doing with

8:42

SoftApp, which I'm enjoying, is improving

8:45

access.

8:46

Right now, we have a physician workforce shortage.

8:49

We have a burnout issue.

8:50

Patients can't get appointments, let alone know where

8:53

to go and who their

8:55

insurance will allow them to see. So

8:57

the true way to do this from a digital transformation

9:00

standpoint is you want to hit all those different

9:02

pain points

9:04

on the patient journey, pre-visit, during

9:06

the visit, and post-visit.

9:09

Oh, you just hit so many topics I want to dig into.

9:12

So let's start with trust. Can you

9:14

talk about the role of trust? Trust

9:16

is everything. If I don't trust

9:18

you, I certainly won't listen to or take

9:20

your advice. I think this is

9:22

one of the things we continue to have

9:24

to do better in health care. But if

9:27

I don't see you as relatable, if

9:29

I don't see you as reachable, if I

9:32

don't

9:33

identify a commonality,

9:35

whether it's an association organization, et cetera,

9:37

I

9:39

won't listen to you. Why do people listen

9:41

to their hairdresser or their

9:43

neighbor?

9:46

It's because they're reachable. They're relatable.

9:48

And too often in health care,

9:50

we've made the

9:53

doctor or the hierarchy of that.

9:55

And we are not reachable. We are not

9:58

relatable. to do

10:00

a better job of understanding that the messenger

10:02

matters in healthcare.

10:04

Every time I drop off my daughter at school,

10:06

someone will inevitably stop me and

10:09

say, hey, do

10:10

you know a female cardiologist?

10:13

Do you know a

10:14

female gynecologist?

10:18

Do you know? Why is that? And it's

10:21

because women think, well, they'll understand

10:23

me because they're a woman. Like there's this

10:26

automatic, they'll be more relatable.

10:29

They'll have better bedside manner than

10:31

a man. They'll actually listen to me.

10:33

So trust and everything you just talked

10:36

about, relatability, trust. It

10:37

is a

10:41

high bar when we have

10:44

this incredible burnout

10:47

and shortage for providers.

10:50

So can you talk about that?

10:53

Look, everyone is talking about artificial intelligence.

10:56

It's that silver bullet. It's going to replace

10:58

doctors. One

11:01

of the best ways to use AI

11:03

in my opinion is this low-hanging fruit

11:05

around physician burnout.

11:08

The idea that how can we make the documentation

11:10

better? How can we automate the things we

11:12

should automate so that we can leave the

11:14

people parts to the people, to

11:17

the actual frontline workers? So

11:19

when I think about artificial intelligence and the

11:21

way we can improve clinical documentation,

11:23

clinical decision support,

11:26

taking that pajama time away

11:28

so that physicians

11:31

can rest, physicians can finish their work at

11:33

the clinic, at the hospital,

11:36

and not

11:36

in the evenings after work

11:39

and after they spend time with their families, we

11:42

have to do it better. And that's the best and

11:45

most important low-hanging fruit, I think, particularly

11:47

with AI that we have, is the

11:49

workflow. It's simple. It's the

11:51

simple things that we can take off of

11:54

the doctor's plate, the nurse's plate that

11:56

will make the biggest impact today, right

11:58

now, as it relates to burnout.

11:59

out and the shortage issue.

12:02

Where do you see some successes happening right now

12:04

in that area?

12:05

I'm excited to see some of

12:07

the work being done by Microsoft's Nuance,

12:10

the Dragon technologies, the AI technologies,

12:13

they're making impacts. They're focusing on the right

12:15

things, which is the workflow, right?

12:17

Not how do we replace the doctor. People

12:20

still want to see people. They're not going to the

12:22

doctor's office to see a robot,

12:24

right? So how do we actually take

12:27

the burden off of the frontline workers

12:29

so that they can be people again and they can be

12:31

empathetic and they can listen?

12:33

You're firmly in telemedicine.

12:36

What spurred your interest and where do you

12:38

see this going? I've been

12:39

doing telemedicine long before we were

12:42

allowed to, right? Because there

12:44

was always the sidebar, there was

12:46

always the text, there was always a phone call.

12:49

Really, the only silver lining to COVID is probably that telemedicine

12:52

finally became blessed from a regulatory

12:54

standpoint and we were able to do it at

12:56

scale. If you're having chest pain,

12:59

do not

13:00

do a virtual visit, right? But if it's

13:02

a wound check, if it is a simple counseling

13:05

question, if it's an access issue and you just can't

13:07

actually get to a doctor for six

13:09

months but you are able to get one

13:12

virtually, by all means, that's better than delaying

13:14

care. Some people

13:17

still like to have that in-person visit from

13:19

that trust

13:19

relatability points

13:22

that we talked about earlier and some people just like to be looked

13:24

in the eye, like the actual eye because

13:27

they feel like it's an important conversation. But

13:30

others don't. Others say, look, I'm busy, I just

13:32

need the advice, I just need the prescription, et cetera.

13:35

So I think we're still learning both on the consumer side

13:38

and the provider side but there is ample

13:40

opportunity for growth and to figure

13:42

this

13:42

out in a better way. What

13:45

do you see as the future for telemedicine?

13:48

I think it's just going to be how we practice.

13:50

I think it will just be part of the workflow. I think

13:52

it will just be part of how

13:55

we do it, Monday, Wednesday, Fridays or telemedicine

13:57

visits, Tuesday and Thursdays in the office. It

13:59

will be high.

13:59

hybrid,

14:00

baby's still got to be born, surgery still have to

14:02

be done. It will certainly be hybrid. I

14:05

will also say even from a physician preference,

14:07

you know, it's very different when I can actually feel

14:09

my patient's joints, as opposed

14:11

to them telling me what it feels like.

14:14

There are just some intangibles that you

14:16

just want and a lot of it is going to

14:18

be very different for specialty and

14:21

stylistically

14:22

for that individual physician, for that individual

14:25

patient. So let's

14:27

just talk for a moment about interoperability

14:30

because that is, you know, that's a little bit

14:32

of the telehealth situation, a little

14:34

bit of the telehealth situation you talked about

14:36

just then. And certainly, you

14:39

know, we started out talking about that,

14:41

about any specialty or

14:43

any provider needing a complete

14:45

medical record. Where are we at with

14:47

interoperability in this whole?

14:50

I think we continue to make progress, but you know,

14:52

ultimately, interoperability

14:54

is not a tech issue.

14:56

It's really not. It's a competition issue.

14:59

If we wanted to make all the plugs work and everybody

15:01

would be connected, we could do it in

15:03

a heartbeat, right? The issue is that

15:05

you have stakeholders competing and

15:08

incentives that make them compete. So

15:11

why would hospital A share with

15:13

hospital B? Why would retailer A

15:15

share with retailer B? The retailers, as we

15:17

continue to see them enter

15:18

the market, are becoming a formidable force as well.

15:21

So ultimately, this is not a technology

15:24

issue. It really is how

15:26

do businesses compete?

15:28

You don't want to get your CBC repeated. You don't want to

15:31

do a procedure twice. You don't want to pay for it twice. Well,

15:33

you need to have your information.

15:35

You need to have your record and you need to be the one

15:37

that shares it

15:38

and be your own shepherd. Not

15:41

easy and not everyone can do that

15:43

or has the literacy or the ability

15:45

to do that. But ultimately, that

15:47

is where I think

15:49

things will be solved. And you see

15:51

it. You see it in the patients and families that are organized,

15:54

have their data together, are using

15:56

any number of applications out there that

15:58

allow you to do this. will

16:00

be in the consumer's hand, the smarter the consumer

16:02

gets about their health care, they will realize

16:04

that they are the actual shepherd of their

16:06

information. And that would take care

16:09

of, I've talked about this a number of time on the podcast,

16:11

but I'll share again, that would take care of the situation,

16:13

like for example, that I had where

16:15

I had a blood test in one

16:17

health

16:18

system on one EHR,

16:21

it needed to go to another one, and

16:23

I waited for a couple weeks and I finally

16:26

called and said, so when

16:28

is it going to go over and they asked

16:30

me to print it and fax it? And of course,

16:33

given what I do, I challenged

16:36

them and said, well, I

16:38

happen to know that your EHR

16:40

talks to their EHR and

16:43

so could you try one more time, please?

16:45

20 minutes later, it was over there.

16:48

Now that's behavior change across

16:50

a large group of physicians and all

16:53

of their staff and all of that.

16:55

That takes a long time and is very

16:57

hard, but if I had owned

16:59

my record, then I could

17:02

have made that happen electronically and

17:04

it takes care of some of that other behavior change.

17:07

So interesting. It's true. And,

17:09

you know, I think also with the advent of all these wearable

17:11

devices, consumers are excited.

17:14

They're excited to say, here's my heartbeat. Do you want to see

17:16

it? Here's my, here's my sleeping bed. You know,

17:18

sometimes the answer is no TMI,

17:20

right? But this idea that the

17:22

consumer is like, I want to own my information

17:25

and interpret it. I think it's terrific.

17:27

I think it's a culture shift that will continue

17:29

to see happen. And that is my hope is that there is

17:32

a disruption that happens in the consumer space

17:34

where it becomes

17:34

easier for you to pull

17:37

your own labs and all your lab

17:39

data, whether from Quest or LabCorp, and then you just

17:42

you shoot it over and you say, you know what? I'm

17:44

taking you out of the equation health

17:46

system or hospital system and I'm going to

17:49

bring it with me. But we

17:51

are a ways away from that.

17:54

Yeah, we might be a ways away from that, but

17:56

we'll see where that we'll see where 21st century

17:58

cures takes us to. Right? The

18:01

implementation of some of that work that's

18:03

happening now. So very

18:05

good. All right. So

18:07

let's talk about the pandemic. For

18:10

our listeners out there, some of you may have

18:12

seen Dr. G on PBS,

18:15

CNN, other local TV

18:17

programs during the pandemic explaining

18:20

what we needed to do to fight the virus and

18:22

promoting the vaccine to keep

18:24

Americans safe. Thank

18:26

you for lending your voice to that fight.

18:29

This is such a great example about how communications

18:32

are so important. You just talk about

18:34

what it was like and to share

18:36

your views on vaccinations and

18:39

masks and public health measures.

18:42

Sure. Look, it was scary. I

18:45

mean, if I'm being really honest, it was scary

18:47

because, one, the data was constantly

18:49

changing. So no doc,

18:52

no professional ever wants to be wrong. So just

18:54

staying abreast of all the information was

18:56

a challenge in itself to

18:58

make sure that you were as up to date as you

19:01

could be in the moment. So I would say

19:03

that was step one. Step

19:05

two, there was a lot of confusion. And

19:07

so making sure you chose

19:10

your words very carefully,

19:12

I am sort of very proud

19:14

of that because that is in itself a bit

19:16

of a talent and that you really want

19:18

to say less

19:21

is more, right? You actually sometimes saying less

19:23

is more. But you also, you

19:26

lost some friends. I would say that

19:28

things got very public. And

19:32

neighbors, friends, family would voice

19:34

their opinions. And they were not necessarily

19:37

in line with

19:40

myself as a physician. So understanding

19:42

how to navigate

19:44

that dynamic. I've always navigated that from

19:46

a physician-patient relationship standpoint, but

19:49

never from the neighbor

19:51

that says, well, I saw you. I saw you on TV.

19:53

And I didn't like that you said this. Or

19:55

I didn't appreciate that X, Y,

19:57

and Z.

19:59

It was really beautiful to see so many people come

20:02

forward, also share their stories or say, thank you. Thank

20:05

you, we didn't know what to do and we heard you and it

20:07

actually changed the way we got together for the

20:09

holidays or changed the way we

20:11

did things. So it was a

20:13

tough time, but I think a lot of beautiful

20:15

moments

20:16

came out of it and hopefully we're stronger for

20:18

it. And again, my book really was inspired by

20:20

that entire time

20:22

period. So I feel

20:24

really passionate about it

20:26

and really felt like, gosh,

20:29

you know, Science Day is a PR campaign. Like

20:31

how did science not become, how did not knowing

20:33

facts become cool? I think that was

20:36

ultimately what bothered me the most.

20:38

What did you learn from the process that you'll take with

20:40

you in this next chapter?

20:42

Oh goodness, well, communication is everything

20:45

and it's everything in every profession

20:48

and in every relationship, personal and professional,

20:50

you know, everything comes down to trust and

20:54

everything comes down to that human factor.

20:57

And you know, I think the other thing I was reminded of and

20:59

I remember in medical school is, you know, when you make a mistake

21:02

or you don't know the answer,

21:05

say that,

21:06

I'm sorry, or I don't know. And

21:09

I think

21:09

being really humble about that, well, at the time

21:12

this was the recommendation. And now, you

21:14

know, I think people needed to hear that because it was

21:16

confusing. And also being

21:19

human as a physician

21:21

makes people respect you and

21:23

trust you more

21:24

as opposed to just defending, you know,

21:26

why you were right at the time. I think

21:28

having that humility is really important. And

21:31

I do wanna say something about all of the communities,

21:34

whether it was celebrities, religious

21:37

organizations, athletes that came

21:39

out. One of the most beautiful things I actually saw on

21:42

social media during the pandemic was when Matthew

21:44

McConaughey hosted Dr. Fauci

21:47

on his Instagram Live.

21:49

And he said, I don't

21:51

know about COVID. I don't know about

21:53

viruses. I don't understand them, but

21:56

I know someone who does.

21:58

And he brought an independent whatever.

21:59

anyone's political views are, but the point

22:02

is that

22:03

we have communities where we have influencers

22:06

that really do have a lot of trust.

22:11

Trying to partner with a

22:13

medical organization or medical professional

22:15

is really important. I think seeing

22:18

someone like a Dr. Fauci with a

22:20

celebrity, it's important that we make

22:22

that a safe space

22:24

because we do have so many partners

22:26

in the community, whether religious, celebrities

22:29

against sports athletes, and

22:31

rather than those individuals saying, this

22:34

is what you should do, I like

22:36

the idea of saying, this is who you should listen

22:38

to, or you should really go out and

22:40

find a doctor. I think that partnership is really powerful,

22:43

and so I realized

22:44

one of the things I learned was as a

22:48

doctor, how could I partner with some non-traditional partners

22:50

to win more trust

22:54

in the community? And I found

22:56

that people were receptive to that.

22:58

Churches wanted

23:00

to have doctors come in. People

23:03

wanted that. They didn't know where to start.

23:05

And so as we talked about MARCOM strategies

23:08

or growth

23:08

strategies, I think that's a strategy

23:11

for any healthcare leader is how

23:13

do you partner in the community in a way that, again,

23:16

it's easy. Of course, there's this question

23:18

in the community, we're going to go to this

23:20

organization

23:21

or this

23:23

leading healthcare

23:27

provider, and that's our partner

23:29

going forward. I think some interesting partnerships

23:31

came out, and I hope

23:32

that they're long lasting. You're talking

23:34

about segmenting your market and understanding

23:37

what their needs are and who can speak to them

23:39

and who can really be a partner in

23:41

establishing trust. So

23:43

very

23:44

cool. And I have

23:46

to say, I hope,

23:48

and it'll be interesting to look at the med school

23:50

stats

23:51

in the next four to

23:53

eight years, but I hope that infectious

23:56

disease, public health,

23:58

and even rheumatology have are having their

24:00

day right now, right?

24:02

Based on what we experienced. We

24:05

hope so. But you know, I still think a lot

24:07

of pieces are broken. And

24:09

the other piece is that I think we all are

24:12

reminded of during COVID is,

24:14

you know, we're only as strong as the weakest

24:16

among us. And understanding

24:19

that underserved communities, the Black and brown

24:21

communities, those partnerships were really pivotal

24:24

to reaching those communities. Because

24:27

they did, in fact, not trust.

24:29

And they do, in fact, not trust the medical

24:31

community. But they do trust their

24:33

congregation. They do trust their

24:36

local or local

24:38

celebrity, local athlete. And so why

24:41

not? You know, why not find that

24:43

partnership if you're truly going to impact those communities?

24:45

And like it or not, those communities impact every

24:47

community.

24:48

And we are all connected. And so I

24:50

think those were probably some of the things we were all

24:52

reminded of during COVID. And I hope, again, that

24:54

those stay on the forefront as we

24:57

think about social determinants of health. And

24:59

the way

25:00

we reach some of these communities. So

25:02

you've already achieved a lot in your career.

25:04

And we've talked about a number of the things

25:06

that you've done, including, which

25:09

we haven't spoken about, you're a former chief

25:11

medical officer of AT&T. That's your

25:13

phone company reference early on. Greenway

25:17

Health,

25:17

APCO Worldwide,

25:20

and Salesforce. That's just naming

25:22

a few things. So if you could sum up your

25:24

career so far, how would you say, how

25:27

would you sum up your career so far?

25:29

You know, I have really thrived on the intersection

25:32

between business, medicine, and technology.

25:35

And that's really where I plan to continue

25:37

to focus. I have also

25:39

really enjoyed building solid

25:42

good health tech products. And

25:44

then being out in the market as a

25:46

trusted thought leader and voice, and

25:49

either explaining strategy, just

25:52

like this conversation, right? Where you need to focus,

25:54

where you need to go, and how you can

25:56

make an impact. And so I think

25:59

continuing to do that. that work really excites me.

26:01

I hope the book takes that to another

26:03

level and I'm able to drive more and more

26:05

impact at scale in

26:08

helping stir and spark some of these conversations

26:10

in different healthcare organizations. And

26:13

really the book tour starts, all this speaking

26:15

circuit, I'm gonna be living at a suitcase

26:18

for quite a bit this fall, but

26:20

I'm so excited and it's so neat because

26:22

I'm also speaking to just a variety

26:24

of audiences, anywhere from public health to

26:27

GPOs, to health tech.

26:29

So it's been really neat to just be able

26:32

to spread sort

26:34

of the audience in a way

26:36

that is exciting

26:37

and newer for me.

26:40

Well, that's great. I'm excited to hear more

26:42

about and to read the book and to

26:44

watch that tour. What's

26:46

next on the horizon for you beyond the

26:48

tour?

26:50

You know, I haven't thought that far ahead, Melanie.

26:52

I feel like I'm taking life in six month

26:54

increments at this point.

26:57

I imagine I will continue to do what I've

26:59

always done and continue

27:01

to partner.

27:02

I'm partnering with a couple of organizations, StockDock

27:04

is one of them, but I'm advising a few companies. I'm

27:07

doing the speaker circuit and really

27:09

focused on making the book a success.

27:11

I hope everyone reads it and feels inspired

27:14

to do something about it. It's really the

27:16

ultimate metric of

27:17

success for me. Well,

27:20

one of the questions that I

27:22

ask everyone who comes on the podcast,

27:25

we're talking about how

27:28

we do better in healthcare and

27:30

doing better requires inspiration. So

27:34

where do you get your inspiration?

27:36

You know, I have to say I get my inspiration

27:39

from so many different places, but probably

27:41

I think inspiration for me really starts

27:43

at home. Both my parents are

27:46

physicians. They've inspired me my whole

27:48

life. My book is actually dedicated to them.

27:50

And I look at my parents now in their

27:53

late 70s and early 80s. And

27:55

my dad still rounds at the hospital. He is

27:58

a very proud,

27:59

hard-working ICU physician, and not

28:02

because he has to, but because he loves to, like

28:04

he really loves to. And he's one of those ICU

28:06

docs that practice throughout COVID,

28:08

met the moment, continue

28:11

to lead throughout COVID and now. So my

28:13

dad and mom inspire

28:15

me every day. My mom was way ahead of her generation, way

28:18

ahead of her country.

28:21

I mean, she was one of the only women in her medical

28:23

school class in India. And so I think

28:25

the two of them really together just

28:27

inspire me that their love and dedication

28:30

for medicine and healthcare and to

28:32

watch them in every

28:34

facet of their career has been really inspiring for me.

28:36

And also my daughter, I mean, it's kind of interesting

28:38

for me to look at my parents and then to look at my daughter who's 11,

28:42

figuring out what she wants to be when she grows up

28:44

and just the everyday

28:46

curiosity that she has, her friends

28:48

has, it's just, it's exhilarating because you enjoy

28:51

having these conversations. And I

28:53

always ask myself, you know, how can I leave

28:55

them better? How can I inspire them

28:58

to

28:58

do something and to do, you know,

29:00

meet their own potential in life? So

29:03

I think that's probably my two places

29:05

where I go. Awesome, that's

29:07

just great. So what excites you most

29:09

about the future of healthcare?

29:12

You know, it is a really exciting time to be

29:14

in healthcare. We have lived through a pandemic.

29:16

We have new technologies like artificial intelligence

29:19

that are going to change the game. We have

29:21

opened the floodgates on telemedicine. I

29:24

think we're just getting started.

29:26

Really, we're just getting started.

29:28

And if I think about your nephew who's just starting medical

29:30

school, healthcare is going to be better.

29:33

It's gonna be better in the next two years, 20 years,

29:37

200 years, I mean, we are changing. It's

29:40

slower than any of us want, but it's happening.

29:42

But it's happening and it'll happen because we did it.

29:45

We helped do it and move the

29:47

needle. I agree with you.

29:49

Healthcare is going to get better very

29:51

quickly, not quickly

29:53

enough for many, but it will get better.

29:56

So awesome. Well, last but not

29:58

least, do you still find time? to see patients

30:01

as a doctor? I

30:02

do, you know, I have very intentionally

30:04

and probably because my dad, my dad

30:06

was so disappointed when I joined the phone company. He's

30:08

like, what do you mean you're not going to see patients? You

30:10

have to see patients. So I have always

30:13

seen patients in whatever role I've had very,

30:15

very little. So I'm a volunteer faculty

30:17

at the University of Miami, and I actually

30:19

see patients in our clinic

30:22

in Little Haiti. And that was a really tough

30:24

time during COVID. We also had to close and then open

30:27

and tell medicine. It was again, very, very humbling.

30:29

I enjoy working with medical students. I love

30:32

the University of Miami, my alma mater, and I do

30:34

continue to see patients a couple of times a month

30:36

when I can. It just all depends. This

30:39

fall will depend on what city I'm in with the book tour,

30:41

but I do

30:42

pepper it in when I'm able to. Cheryl,

30:44

that's a great way to keep your hands in and

30:46

to have,

30:48

keep your perspective when you're talking about the things

30:50

that you're talking about, right? And so I

30:53

guess one more question is where do

30:55

you find the time? Because you have a lot on

30:57

your plate.

30:58

You know, I think we always find the time

31:00

for the things we love and we

31:02

can't do everything and we can't do everything all at the

31:04

same time. So I think you just, you just find

31:06

it and you say, this is the day and you put it on the

31:08

calendar and you make it happen. But that means

31:10

something else doesn't happen that day. Right.

31:13

And that's kind of how I've been making up my

31:15

whole life. So that's,

31:17

that's how I do it. I don't know. It's all prioritization.

31:20

And well, thank you so much for

31:22

spending time with us, Dr. G, talking

31:25

about the intersection between business,

31:27

medicine, and technology, the things that you

31:30

love and that are really important to all of us

31:32

in healthcare for the future.

31:34

Thank you so much for having me, Melanie.

31:39

A number of things you shared today really

31:41

resonated with me. To name

31:43

a few. First, you

31:45

said that misinformation can be dangerous

31:48

to your health, which led you

31:50

to title your book Dead Wrong.

31:53

After all, in healthcare, it can

31:55

be life or death. Second,

31:59

you said the Interoperability is not a

32:01

tech issue. It comes down

32:04

to competition and partnership, and

32:06

ultimately, consumers being

32:08

shepherds of their own information.

32:12

And third, you said that we always

32:15

find time for things we love, which

32:17

is why you still carve out time to serve

32:20

patients as a rheumatologist, even

32:23

as you're writing books and continuing

32:25

to work at the intersection of business,

32:27

medicine, and technology. Thank

32:30

you, Dr. G, for taking time to be on

32:32

our show today. Thank

32:36

you for listening in today. If

32:38

you've enjoyed this podcast, please rate,

32:41

subscribe, and review. There's

32:44

a Better Way, smart talk on

32:46

healthcare and technology. With

32:49

your help, we'll continue to bring

32:51

great conversations to the fore and

32:54

to the wider listening public. Thank

32:56

you.