0:08

Reading Forever by Judy Blume left us with

0:10

a lot of questions . In this special

0:12

bonus episode of these Books Made Me we're

0:14

talking to an expert in teen sexual

0:16

health . We hope you'll enjoy this interview

0:19

with a peer health educator . All

0:22

right , if you can just introduce yourself .

0:25

Hi , my name is Cora and I'm a

0:27

second year undergraduate student at Vanderbilt

0:30

University in Nashville , tennessee , but I

0:32

grew up here in Prince George's

0:34

County and you had

0:36

a job working for Planned

0:39

Parenthood . Can you talk a little bit about what

0:41

your role was with Planned Parenthood

0:45

has a program

0:47

called Peer Health Educators

0:49

, and not just

0:51

in DC but in multiple

0:54

areas . So the PPMW

0:57

of DC worked

0:59

with the Planned Parenthood

1:01

of Charlotte and other peer educators

1:04

around the country to create programming

1:06

that would serve to educate

1:09

our peers on sexual

1:11

health matters , relationship matters

1:13

, what it looks like to be in a healthy

1:15

relationship , what some

1:17

red flags are , what

1:19

Planned Parenthood provides , birth

1:22

control methods , sdi prevention

1:24

and testing methods and

1:26

overall , just to create

1:29

a more open conversation about

1:32

sexual health and romantic relationships

1:35

.

1:35

So I think Judy Blume was trying to make something digestible

1:38

for teens that focused on sexual

1:40

health and romantic relationships by writing

1:43

this book Forever . How

1:45

well do you think she succeeded in that ?

1:48

Well , the relationship that's modeled in

1:50

Forever is not great . There's

1:53

constantly

1:55

pressure , even after

1:58

they have sex

2:00

, from Michael . There's

2:02

constantly this sort of power dynamic

2:05

that has been

2:07

modeled for centuries in heteronormative

2:09

relationships that we're trying to sort

2:12

of break down today . And

2:14

in the sexual health component

2:17

like , she spends

2:19

chapter 15 talking about um

2:22

, the main character's visit to a planned

2:24

parenthood to get consulting

2:26

on birth control , and she really wants to go on the

2:28

pill . And she talks about

2:30

how there was

2:32

like a group counseling session where

2:35

they gave all this information

2:37

and then there was private counseling where they asked

2:39

some questions , which were not

2:43

all the questions that you would probably be asked

2:45

today . You'd probably be asked more

2:47

about . You know , do

2:50

you have migraines with aura Like ? If

2:53

so , that affects what kind of hormone

2:55

you should avoid

2:57

when considering birth control . And

3:00

there's a

3:02

walkthrough of the physical

3:05

pelvic exam , which I

3:07

think was very helpful

3:11

. It may feel a little bit strange

3:13

and out of place to put it into a story

3:15

, but I think the walkthrough

3:18

can be helpful . However

3:21

, I feel

3:23

that doctors

3:25

today generally

3:27

, at least at Planned Parenthood

3:30

, are a

3:32

little bit less invasive and

3:34

not only tell

3:36

you should try to relax , but

3:40

say this is how it

3:42

should feel and if it doesn't

3:44

tell us , because that's

3:46

not normal and sort of stressing

3:49

that aspect of like you shouldn't

3:51

feel pain .

3:54

Do you think that that version of

3:56

a visit to Planned Parenthood

3:58

tracks with what a visit to Planned Parenthood

4:00

would look like for a teen if they went today

4:03

?

4:05

I think somewhat . I think the

4:07

format of group counseling and then private

4:09

counseling may still

4:11

be a thing at some Planned

4:14

Parenthoods , where they

4:16

give sort of information

4:19

in this larger

4:21

groups setting so that it creates

4:24

this environment of this is not

4:26

shameful and this is a , you

4:28

know , a normal and regular

4:31

thing that should be talked about . But

4:34

I think , based on how

4:36

the Planned Parenthood workers are

4:38

portrayed , I think they

4:41

are much different today . Everyone

4:43

I've come into contact with who works

4:45

at Planned Parenthood is much more

4:48

supportive and sort

4:50

of aware of the feelings

4:52

involved and talks

4:55

more about that explicitly

4:58

and how to sort of break down the

5:00

stigma and

5:03

shame to

5:05

make sure consent

5:08

is clear and

5:10

the patient or

5:12

student is actually

5:15

comfortable with what's going on .

5:18

So Catherine gets to Planned Parenthood

5:20

because her grandmother gives her some

5:22

information about Planned Parenthood

5:24

and makes it clear that this is an option for her

5:27

. Is that a typical

5:29

way that most young people find their

5:31

way to Planned Parenthood ?

5:33

Definitely not . I

5:36

think hearing it from two generations

5:39

removed is not very

5:41

typical , especially with the political climate

5:44

today . I think one

5:46

of the goals of the peer educator program

5:49

is to make social media presence larger

5:51

. We

5:54

helped run a social media account

5:56

and tried to get information

5:59

out digitally , which

6:01

I think is how a

6:03

lot of teens

6:06

receive it nowadays is through sponsored

6:09

ads , through Instagram or referral

6:12

from friends , or

6:14

actually a lot of colleges

6:16

, especially private colleges , make

6:19

it clear that Planned Parenthood is an option

6:21

or they have a center

6:23

at the actual college . That's pretty

6:25

similar to Planned Parenthood or partners with

6:27

Planned Parenthood . So it's

6:29

much more common to hear it from either

6:32

the same generation or one generation

6:35

removed , rather than directly from

6:37

a family source .

6:40

When Catherine goes to Planned Parenthood she

6:42

is still a minor , but she does not

6:45

need parental consent to be there . Is that an

6:47

accurate depiction of how an

6:49

appointment at Planned Parenthood would work for a teen

6:52

today ?

6:53

Yes , absolutely . I don't

6:57

remember . There is an age where

6:59

you don't need a parent , and I think it

7:02

may be 14 or 15 . I can't quite remember

7:04

, but

7:07

it's kind of like

7:09

if you're allowed at a public pool alone

7:11

, then you're probably allowed to go

7:14

to Planned Parenthood and have

7:16

everything that's discussed there , everything

7:19

you do there , completely confidential

7:21

real

7:32

focus on preventing teen pregnancy ?

7:33

Is that the primary focus for most teens going to Planned Parenthood ? Should it be

7:35

, and how well did the book hold ?

7:36

up on that front . I would say it is definitely the

7:38

primary consideration for

7:40

teens who visit Planned Parenthood , which

7:43

is part of why the

7:46

people who visit Planned Parenthood are

7:48

disproportionately female , and

7:51

that should definitely

7:54

shift , like a lot . Most

7:56

of our peer education was about

7:58

healthy relationships , both

8:02

romantic , sexual and completely

8:06

platonic , like family relationships and

8:10

STIs , which

8:12

is incredibly

8:14

important to focus on , because

8:16

if your main focus is pregnancy

8:18

, like Catherine , you

8:20

may go on the pill or

8:23

some sort of birth control um

8:25

and then discontinue

8:28

a birth control method that was

8:30

preventing STIs , like using

8:32

condoms .

8:35

Which I think is what happens in the book

8:37

is that they start with

8:39

condoms as their primary birth control

8:41

method and

8:44

of course he complains about them and

8:47

pressures her to look

8:49

into other methods , which she does in

8:51

close to Planned Parenthood . But after

8:53

she decides

8:55

on another birth control method , it seems like they abandon

8:57

the condoms pretty quickly and it's

9:00

never really brought up again . He

9:03

also has a history of contracting

9:05

an STI . Specifically

9:08

, he got gonorrhea from his first

9:10

sexual encounter with a

9:12

girl on the beach . He

9:16

did not disclose that to Catherine until

9:20

she found out via making

9:22

a joke about VD . Is

9:25

that appropriate in a relationship

9:28

?

9:29

Absolutely not . That violates

9:31

consent , because consent needs

9:33

to be informed , and

9:35

if you're not offering

9:37

that information and being transparent

9:40

with your partner , then you are not

9:42

asking for consent

9:44

. And

9:47

that is something that Planned Parenthood teaches a lot

9:49

today and something that I

9:51

was surprised wasn't brought up in

9:53

her appointment Um

9:55

, her private consultant she

9:57

was . She said , um

10:00

like

10:03

so what

10:05

birth control methods have you been using ? And

10:07

she said , oh , we've been

10:09

using a rubber condom

10:11

. And she says and

10:13

you're unsatisfied with this

10:15

method ? And she's like I

10:18

don't know .

10:20

And so I think for context

10:23

he blames the condom when

10:25

he can't finish

10:27

the first time that they have

10:29

sex and then

10:31

it's a very unsatisfying first

10:33

encounter for both of them . I think so

10:36

with STIs . This book was written 50

10:38

years ago and Judy Blume did include

10:41

in a preface that

10:43

had she written it later

10:46

she obviously would have focused more on

10:48

HIV AIDS prevention

10:50

, but in the 70s it just wasn't

10:52

front of mind as a concern

10:54

for teenage relationships

10:57

. Michael did have

10:59

the experience with gonorrhea . He says

11:01

he was treated but then he doesn't disclose

11:03

it , which you've said is problematic . What

11:06

is the sort of healthy relationship

11:09

model for disclosure

11:11

of previous sexual encounters

11:14

, sexually transmitted

11:16

infections and diseases ? What

11:18

would sort of be the healthy way

11:20

of approaching a new sexual relationship

11:22

with someone as a teenager ?

11:25

I think that's one of the harder questions

11:27

, just because people

11:30

are so afraid especially

11:32

teens of it

11:34

ruining the mood and

11:38

they're so focused on how

11:41

they are perceived and how they're coming across

11:43

that they

11:45

don't want to risk that

11:47

by disclosing

11:50

information that is unsexy

11:53

unsexy and but

11:55

that that is a hump that people need to get

11:58

over and that is something

12:00

we need to talk about and that needs to

12:02

be modeled in media like books and

12:04

shows is

12:06

, before anything

12:08

, before you kiss someone

12:11

, like like , if you have HSV-1

12:14

or if you get cold sores

12:16

and that is something that's not talked about

12:18

at all , despite over

12:21

50% of the population having

12:23

HSV-1 .

12:24

And that's herpes simplex virus .

12:26

One yes , and which is

12:28

oral herpes correct ? It's commonly

12:31

known as oral herpes . It can appear other

12:33

places , but it is most

12:35

commonly found on or inside

12:37

the mouth and

12:39

usually it is only spread when

12:42

there is a lesion , but can

12:45

be spread when there aren't lesions

12:47

. So that information should

12:49

be disclosed , especially , um

12:52

, because if you

12:54

meet someone on a dating app and you

12:56

go on a date and like

12:59

you have no idea that could be immunocompromised

13:01

or not

13:04

disclosing that you have HSV

13:06

one to your partner like

13:08

before you kiss , like if it's about

13:11

to happen , say like

13:13

, just to be clear , I have this

13:15

, um , this is

13:17

how it's typically spread , and then letting the

13:19

partner make a decision from there . And

13:22

similarly for for any

13:24

sexual encounters , like

13:26

you should talk , have a talk before anything

13:29

progresses to any sexual

13:32

activity about you

13:34

know when the last time you got tested was

13:36

, and ideally you should get tested

13:39

like at

13:41

least once a year , depending on

13:43

how many partners you have .

13:45

And because there are STIs that can be

13:48

dormant for a while before showing

13:50

up on tests . Is that correct ?

13:52

Yeah , that's correct and , like

13:54

for HSV-1 and 2

13:56

, if you don't request

13:59

a blood test , they often won't automatically

14:02

test for them and they

14:04

won't , you know , show up

14:06

unless you like , have lesions and

14:08

they swab the lesions . So you

14:10

also want to be clear on , when

14:13

you go get STI testing

14:15

, what exactly you're getting tested

14:17

for , what's not covered , and

14:20

be clear with your partner what the

14:23

specifics of your test results , and

14:25

there's also STIs , where a partner can

14:27

have it without knowing and be asymptomatic

14:30

, but then pass a symptomatic

14:32

case to the other partner .

14:34

Is that ?

14:36

accurate . Yes , that is also accurate .

14:39

How has that well

14:41

backtrack ? So obviously

14:44

medical treatments for a lot of

14:46

STIs have improved a lot in

14:48

the 50 years since Judy Blume wrote

14:50

this book . Again , hiv

14:52

wasn't even on her radar at the time and

14:55

it went from you know within

14:57

a decade of writing this becoming pretty much

15:00

an automatic death sentence for somebody if you

15:02

got that diagnosis , to now a

15:04

very treatable thing with PrEP that

15:07

many people are able

15:09

to live healthy lives with an

15:11

undetectable viral load . But

15:13

how does that blur the lines around consent

15:15

and disclosure ? Now

15:18

that there are treatments and

15:20

herpes the same way you can have sort

15:22

of symptom-free it's managed Do

15:26

you need to disclose ? What sort

15:28

of calculations do you make about

15:30

disclosure with a new partner ?

15:32

If you have a history of an STI

15:34

but it's treated and it's , you

15:36

have an undetectable load or you're in some

15:39

type of remission or yeah

15:41

, we talked about this a lot

15:43

in Planned Parenthood

15:46

and it

15:48

it absolutely still

15:50

should be brought up , even though

15:52

it's difficult , because

15:55

, again , there is

15:57

still always a chance

15:59

. And having that conversation and

16:01

starting the foundation of

16:03

a sexual relationship with open

16:05

communication in

16:07

general is a very

16:09

great way to start off in

16:20

general is a very great way to start off and like , even if you

16:22

are , you know 99.9% sure that you won't pass anything

16:24

to them , still talk to them about it . At the very least you

16:26

are informing someone else

16:28

, even if immediately

16:31

they're like turned off or scared or

16:33

run away , like , yes

16:36

, that sucks , but they were probably not

16:40

the right partner for you and they're

16:42

better off for having known

16:45

the information that you gave them and

16:47

the transparency they gave them , because they will

16:49

carry that forward in their future relationships

16:52

. Yeah , so

16:54

, even though it is you may feel

16:56

like it should be a calculation , it

16:58

still should be disclosed .

17:02

There's also in the book several

17:06

other moments where

17:08

the information

17:11

conveyed might be things that teens

17:13

worry about with sex . But

17:17

Catherine and Michael's

17:19

sort of interpretation of things maybe

17:21

isn't entirely accurate and then

17:23

it doesn't quite get corrected in the book . One

17:25

of the interludes

17:27

that we were kind of

17:29

scratching our heads about is that when

17:33

they are preparing to have intercourse for the

17:35

first time , they

17:37

comment that they know that she

17:39

might bleed from that because she

17:42

has not , to her knowledge , had her hymen

17:44

break yet . They get

17:46

very concerned about this to the degree

17:48

that they won't do it on the bed

17:50

because they're afraid of staining it . So they

17:52

get a towel and put it down

17:55

on the floor on an area rug

17:57

with a busy pattern , so that if she

17:59

bleeds through the towel no

18:01

one will notice the stains . We

18:03

were kind of laughing at that because it

18:06

seemed like they were imagining

18:08

like hemorrhaging happening when

18:11

the hymen is broken . But

18:13

that's not really what

18:16

happens . So do

18:19

you think that there's a responsibility of the author

18:21

in a situation like that ? She's

18:24

presented something that might be a very authentic

18:26

misconception by teens , but

18:28

then it's not corrected , other than

18:30

that we don't see that she like hemorrhages out

18:32

all over the floor , but then they keep using

18:35

towels and having sex on the floor , which is really weird

18:37

. Do you think that the author has a responsibility

18:40

to somehow

18:43

insert accurate information in there

18:45

, or is her responsibility to depicting

18:47

something faithful to the mindset

18:49

of the characters ? Do you have an opinion

18:51

on that ?

18:54

I think you can still be faithful to

18:56

the mindset of the characters and

18:58

like it seems

19:01

almost unfaithful to not

19:03

mention it afterwards , because if it was

19:05

such a big concern , catherine's

19:07

obviously going to think about it afterwards

19:09

like , oh , that is not what I expected

19:12

. Even

19:22

if she doesn't outright say it to Michael , she is

19:25

still thinking it common misconceptions

19:27

and then sort of sweep

19:30

over it without saying

19:32

what actually happened or

19:35

making it clear that that was a misconception

19:38

in the first place .

19:41

As a young adult today , a book like

19:43

this . Do you think that

19:46

it holds any appeal

19:48

for people

19:51

the age of the main characters to read , or

19:53

do you think it's too dated to hold

19:55

any appeal at all ? Do you think that there's any

19:58

kind of like expiration date that should be placed

20:00

on a book that includes really

20:02

quite detailed medical information ? I

20:04

mean , I've never read a book where you

20:07

have a chapter that is just a pelvic exam

20:09

. You

20:14

have a chapter that is just a pelvic exam , but there's some value to depicting that in a frank

20:16

way , because that probably at the time kids didn't have internet . They wouldn't have

20:19

been able to learn about that other

20:21

than through someone that had experienced one

20:23

, and obviously in the 70s probably

20:25

a lot of women weren't comfortable talking

20:27

to their daughters about that . Catherine

20:30

has the privilege of having a very like , progressive

20:32

and open-minded grandmother and

20:34

parents , but that probably wasn't

20:37

the case for a lot of teens . So do you feel like

20:39

there's some type of expiration date on a book

20:41

like this or do you feel like it holds up

20:43

for some

20:45

facet of the young

20:47

adult experience ?

20:55

the young adult experience I can see that it would probably be appealing for preteens and

20:58

sort of younger adolescents going

21:00

into puberty . But

21:02

beyond that , I do feel that

21:04

one the

21:06

conversation around sex has become

21:09

a lot more open , and not

21:11

necessarily always in the best

21:13

ways . There is a lot of sexual

21:17

activity , you know , modeled

21:19

in TV shows and even

21:22

video games and movies .

21:24

And we did sort of bring that

21:26

up because we heard that they

21:28

were looking to make a

21:30

Netflix series about this book

21:32

. I mean , it would be a , I think , a loose adaptation

21:35

I think

21:37

they were . It

21:39

had been assigned to a director

21:42

who was

21:44

planning to rework it from a

21:46

the perspective

21:48

of two black teens and

21:52

at one point we were talking

21:54

about like well , what , what is

21:56

, what would that look like ? Now ? Because

21:59

this is doesn't line up , you know , with

22:01

modern anything , and

22:03

we , we came to the conclusion

22:06

that it would look like euphoria . But

22:09

you know , I think , again from what you're saying

22:11

, like that would not be the healthiest set

22:13

of behaviors depicted

22:16

, but maybe somewhat

22:18

more accurate to some teens'

22:21

experience than this book would be , at this point

22:23

, more accurate to some

22:25

teens experience than this book would be .

22:27

at this point I

22:32

think I think that's correct . I don't think that this book models very many

22:34

common experiences among young adults and teens

22:37

today , and I think

22:39

it is shows

22:41

, unfortunately , you know , shows like

22:44

Euphoria and 13

22:48

Reasons why do depict some

22:51

more likely experiences

22:54

, but still usually unrealistic

22:56

and either

22:59

sort of well

23:01

, usually dramatized . And I

23:04

think it's important

23:07

that there is media that

23:09

, if they represent inaccurate

23:11

or experiences

23:14

that are so experiences

23:18

with a subject that is really taboo , there

23:21

should be some sort

23:23

of like disclaimer or educational

23:26

content or just

23:29

something included to

23:31

make it clear that you know

23:33

this is not what everyone goes through

23:35

and is something

23:37

important to learn about from

23:39

your own perspective

23:42

and what

23:44

it would mean to you . And

23:47

I think that's that individuality is

23:49

always often lost in in

23:51

sexual experience depictions

23:54

in modern media and

23:56

past media . So

23:58

I worry that the

24:01

teens who would read this book would probably

24:04

like most

24:06

likely not

24:08

take the information to

24:10

heart as much because it

24:13

wouldn't align with their modern

24:15

day experiences , whereas

24:18

younger kids might internalize

24:20

it more because it's something they haven't experienced

24:23

yet and they like think about and

24:25

that could be absolutely

24:28

harmful if there's there aren't proper

24:30

disclaimers or footnotes or corrections

24:34

, because you're

24:36

feeding misinformation to those

24:39

who are uninformed .

24:41

What are the best ways for a

24:43

teen to get accurate sexual

24:45

health information today in a way

24:48

that is somewhat

24:50

private for them ? Because I think that this book

24:52

did serve that purpose , probably for a lot

24:54

of girls in the seventies , where , even

24:56

if they couldn't check the book out , they were reading

24:58

it in the stacks to get information that they

25:01

didn't have a way to get otherwise . What

25:03

would something similar be today

25:05

? That would be an accurate

25:08

way for kids to get information that

25:10

is centered on the teen experience

25:12

and , you know , not like WebMD .

25:16

Honestly , I think one main

25:19

medium that could be used more is

25:21

podcasting . There

25:24

are several great podcasts

25:27

by like sex therapists and

25:29

pelvic floor physical therapists

25:31

on Spotify and

25:33

Amazon music and those

25:37

are typically pretty private

25:40

histories . You don't often

25:42

have your parents looking at your Spotify

25:44

history in your own account . I'm not

25:46

even sure how to do that with

25:49

a shared family plan and

25:51

most teens listen

25:53

to so much music and podcasting

25:56

anyway that it would

25:58

be too much information for any

26:00

sort of helicopter parent

26:03

to sift through . And

26:05

advertisements for that on social

26:08

media would be really helpful . I

26:11

think the sponsored ads

26:14

on social media like

26:17

I've been seeing a ton about

26:19

PrEP recently and usually

26:21

they're really short and they give you

26:24

know a snippet of information and

26:26

have an area for you to learn

26:28

more . But there are so many of them that you

26:30

see that like it adds , it

26:33

compiles information together over

26:35

time , um and de-stigmatizes

26:38

the subject . Subject and

26:40

I mean this

26:43

isn't as private . But I think it is important

26:46

to have these conversations

26:48

in schools , which

26:50

I know is heavily

26:54

controversial . But

26:57

opening that line of communication or

26:59

at least giving resources

27:01

for students to ask questions and

27:03

creating an environment

27:06

where students feel safe to ask questions

27:08

is really important

27:10

so that students can get

27:13

help outside of the

27:15

home when you know

27:17

they might not have the means of transportation or

27:19

the time to otherwise

27:21

go to somewhere like Planned Parenthood and

27:24

get counseling .

27:27

One thing I've noticed with all

27:29

the ads about PrEP and I've seen

27:31

them too , I think it's we've

27:33

been commenting recently how often the ads

27:36

are about PrEP when we're watching

27:38

shows on apps

27:40

that we don't have premium subscriptions to

27:42

, but all of those ads

27:45

seem to be focused on people

27:48

in their like , late 20s or 30s

27:50

, who are , you know , they're living a nice

27:52

life and they're going to clubs and they're

27:54

, like you know , meeting

27:57

someone at a paint and sip , and so they're kind of

27:59

depicting this like very rosy , like nice life

28:01

, but everyone is a lot older

28:03

. Of

28:05

depicting this like very rosy , like nice life , but everyone is a lot older , and so

28:07

, at least to me , it seems like those ads are targeting a very different

28:10

demographic . Is there , is

28:12

there , stuff specific to teens being

28:14

done , or is that something

28:16

where marketing folks

28:19

are kind of scared because

28:21

it's minors ? You know it is a political

28:25

hot button now

28:27

sexual health . Do

28:29

you see that there are targeted ads for teens

28:31

? I mean , as a young adult and a teen

28:34

, are you seeing ads that are targeted to you ? Are

28:36

you seeing the same kind of generic ads that I'm seeing

28:38

that are you know , they're really focusing

28:41

on the 30 , something who is

28:43

living their best life with

28:46

prep , you know .

28:48

I'm seeing a mix of both

28:50

. So I have seen some some

28:53

of the same ads with teens , but

28:55

I think that is also definitely

28:57

something that marketing avoids

29:00

. I think there are maybe sneakier

29:06

ways or subtler ways that

29:08

they could make it clear

29:11

to teens watching the ads that like this

29:15

is something that affects them , and

29:17

you know places

29:20

that are already under

29:22

fire do also provide

29:25

that advertising , like Planned Parenthood They'll

29:27

send out , you know , sponsored posts

29:29

of just information

29:31

, like not selling anything , and

29:34

I think like that's really

29:36

important . But I

29:38

think there are also some

29:40

some people are still excluded from that based

29:43

on their social media usage

29:45

, what they look up online

29:47

. That can

29:49

reinforce some

29:52

cultural stigmas , I think . So

29:56

there may be better

29:58

ways of advertising on

30:01

billboards or something that's

30:04

not personalized ads based

30:06

on some algorithm .

30:09

You mentioned that school-based

30:11

sexual education is really important

30:13

. Can you talk a little

30:15

bit about what your experience with school-based

30:17

sexual education as a

30:20

kid growing up in

30:22

a pretty progressive

30:24

blue area

30:27

where it's maybe not as politically

30:29

fraught as it might be somewhere else

30:31

?

30:32

Yeah , I mean

30:34

it wasn't great . I

30:39

went to Prince George's County's

30:41

public schools and in middle

30:43

school we had like a unit

30:45

in health class in sixth

30:47

and seventh grade and we were supposed to in eighth grade

30:49

. Like we had to get our parents to sign

30:51

the form , which is another problem , like

30:54

parents have to consent for their students to

30:56

receive sexual education , but

31:02

we didn't even do that unit

31:04

in eighth grade . Um , in

31:06

sixth grade I remember watching

31:10

some Mickey mouse video from

31:12

the fifties about periods and

31:15

like all the boys sniggering

31:17

and um

31:20

. I remember our textbook in seventh grade

31:22

had a very heavy focus on STIs

31:24

. Um , which

31:26

I thought was was

31:28

great Um . But

31:31

there is also a question

31:33

that I don't know the answer to of you

31:36

know how to most effectively

31:38

teach that without

31:40

fear mongering ? And a lot of the textbook

31:42

was like fear mongering . Um

31:45

, and I think

31:47

STIs were definitely a heavier focus

31:49

than pregnancy , which I also think is

31:52

good Um , because it sort

31:54

of balances , you

31:57

know , the concerns that most , most people

31:59

initially have um growing

32:02

up in the U S ? Um in

32:04

high school I took my

32:07

gym credit and health credit over the summer and

32:10

I remember pretty much the

32:13

same thing , like being

32:16

told you know to wear some sort

32:18

of physical barrier , although , like

32:21

, female condoms weren't really mentioned

32:23

and

32:25

there wasn't really there weren't really given

32:28

alternatives to just

32:30

the regular condom . And

32:33

there

32:35

was there was talk in

32:37

the textbook about like , like

32:40

peer pressure and not

32:44

giving into pressure , but

32:47

there wasn't really a specific

32:49

address of the power dynamics

32:52

that go into sexual pressure and

32:54

consent in a

32:56

sexual or romantic context

32:58

, and I

33:00

think that is something that's extremely

33:02

important for minors

33:05

to learn in schools .

33:07

All right . Thank you so much for appearing

33:09

on the podcast today and talking to us a little bit

33:11

about your experience as a young adult

33:14

sexual health educator . Thank you

33:16

. Well , that's it for this bonus

33:18

episode of these Books Made Me . Join

33:20

us next time when we'll discuss a book in which

33:22

our main character works in her family's motel

33:24

. If you think you know which book we're

33:26

tackling next , follow us on Instagram we

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are at these Books Made Me and

33:31

drop a comment on our guests . Our next read

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