0:09

Hi, I'm

0:10

Haa . I'm Heather.

0:11

And I'm Darlene.

0:12

And this is our podcast, these books made

0:14

me. Today we're diving into Angela Johnson's

0:16

Coretta Scott King , award-winning book, heaven

0:19

Friendly Warning. As always, this podcast contains

0:22

spoilers. If you don't yet know who Marley's

0:24

real parents are, proceed with caution. Side

0:27

note, this episode contains discussions

0:29

of self harm , so we wanted to give you all a trigger

0:31

warning. Okay.

0:34

So Heaven by Angela

0:36

Johnson. Was this y'all's first time reading this

0:38

Book? No, it was not my first time reading

0:40

this book. I love Angela

0:42

Johnson so much. The first time

0:44

I read her, I was in high school

0:46

and I read Toning the Sweep and

0:50

just thought she was marvelous

0:52

and then wanted to read everything as

0:55

she published things. So I, I

0:57

thought I had read all of her books, but

0:59

then I think you mentioned a book when we were

1:01

talking before it started. That did not sound familiar

1:04

to me. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So maybe I've missed a

1:06

couple in my later years, but, um, I started

1:08

into her over

1:11

of writing back in

1:13

the nineties, and then I've kept up with her

1:15

since. I just, I love her writing, so

1:17

this was a reread for me and I really liked revisiting

1:20

it.

1:21

Yes, thank you. Because I definitely was supposed to ask, how

1:23

did this reread compare to your memories of reading

1:25

when you were younger? So keep that in mind as well,

1:27

<laugh> .

1:28

So, yeah, this was my first time reading

1:31

it as a whole, it seems, because

1:33

there was a point in time where I was reading

1:35

this and some passages

1:37

in it just seemed so familiar. Mm-hmm

1:40

. <affirmative> . Um , and we had talked about this book a little bit

1:42

before this, uh , the recording of this

1:44

episode. And Heather gave

1:46

some context that this book

1:48

had been used, or passages from this book had

1:51

been used in like, statewide exams, uh

1:54

, for like, is it by elementary

1:56

School? Like standardized tests?

1:58

Okay. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. And so I

2:00

feel like that's where I remember it from, but

2:02

it was just a really strong de

2:05

mood feeling when I read certain passages

2:07

in this book. But I really enjoyed

2:09

it, so I'm really excited to get into the discussion

2:11

for it.

2:12

Yeah, this was also my first time reading this

2:14

book, but like, I remember

2:16

hearing about it, like I remember hearing about it.

2:18

I remember seeing it. It just wasn't one that I

2:20

picked up. So I'm glad that I finally got

2:23

a chance to pick it up. You know, I'm always super excited

2:25

when we get to read books by black authors on the podcast. So

2:27

yeah, I'm excited.

2:29

<laugh> also throwing in my vote that we do read

2:31

Toning The Sweep in a Future Season, because

2:34

I love that book so much. And I

2:36

think I , I just think her books very

2:38

well fit into the sorts of

2:40

books that we're trying to revisit.

2:42

So I'm totally down to do that. <laugh> .

2:43

Yay. All

2:46

right . I did some research into Angela

2:48

Johnson and have a little background on

2:50

her. Angela Johnson was

2:52

born in Tuskegee, Alabama in

2:55

1961, but she grew up in small

2:57

town Windham , Ohio. She began writing

2:59

as a child obsessively journaling and

3:01

writing poetry that she described as punk

3:04

poetry to go with my razor blade necklace.

3:07

She studied special ed for a time at

3:09

Kent State, but left school before completing

3:11

her degree to focus on writing. And

3:14

Kent. She began working as a nanny for children's

3:16

author Cynthia Ryland , who was impressed

3:18

by Angela's writing and sent it along to her own

3:21

publisher. In

3:23

1989, her first picture book was

3:25

published and she began to branch out into

3:27

writing for young adults and older children. Her

3:30

book, toning The Sweep, was released in

3:33

1993, winning Johnson, the

3:35

first of her three, Coretta Scott King Awards. She's

3:38

also won the Prince Award for Best Teen Literature

3:40

and received a MacArthur Genius grant in

3:42

2003. She's

3:44

also been the recipient of a Virginia Hamilton Award

3:47

and the Harper Lee Award. Her books

3:49

for young people have tackled issues ranging

3:51

from racism to mental illness and teen

3:53

pregnancy. Her writing is

3:55

character driven and she has commented that

3:57

she can always clearly see her characters. But

3:59

developing plots for her books is her biggest challenge.

4:03

She's focused on juvenile literature

4:05

because kids and teens

4:07

are so much more interesting than adults. Life

4:10

is happening when you're a teenager. One

4:12

minute you're a child, the next you're allowed to go out

4:14

into the world by yourself. Her

4:16

writing style is poetic and observational and

4:18

delves into identity and the bonds of family. Johnson

4:22

continues to live in Kent, Ohio and remains a prolific

4:24

author with over 40 books to her credit.

4:29

Okay, and now we're gonna get into a plot

4:31

summary. So Marley

4:34

had a pretty normal childhood, all things

4:36

considered, and she's grown up

4:39

with certain truths. She grew up

4:41

in a small town called Heaven because

4:43

her mom liked the name. Her

4:45

dad drives the big pickup truck and

4:47

takes the family on little trips on the weekends.

4:50

And her brother Butchy loves

4:52

to skateboard through the town often

4:54

with no helmet. The only

4:57

thing shrouded and a bit of mystery is

4:59

her uncle Jack. All she knows is

5:01

her family wires him money, and he writes

5:03

her letters from his adventures across

5:05

the us . But

5:08

after a series of events, Marley

5:10

has to come to terms with a truth that

5:12

threatens to upend everything she's ever

5:14

known. And she begins to question if

5:17

she's even the same Marley because of it. Who

5:20

is she if her mom and dad are

5:22

not her parents? And her uncle Jack

5:24

isn't who she's known him to be, and

5:27

how can she trust those closest

5:29

to her if they lied about something

5:31

so fundamental to her identity.

5:36

All right . So let's get into this discussion. So

5:38

my first question for y'all , as always is

5:40

how did this book hold up? Do you feel like there was

5:43

anything, um , that dated the

5:45

book, that made the book a little problematic that

5:47

should have maybe been left out? All those things.

5:52

I think it held up really well, actually.

5:54

And her writing

5:56

style is very timeless.

5:59

You could, honestly, there's only a couple

6:01

of things that actually route this book to any

6:04

particular timeline. You have Uncle

6:06

Jack mentioning that he is a Vietnam

6:09

vet and we know generally

6:11

how old he is in the book. And so you

6:13

can kind of place it based on that. And

6:16

there's one, one mention

6:18

of a website at

6:21

one point. Hmm .

6:22

Yes, I remember he likes to get on webpages

6:24

or something like that. Yeah.

6:26

And those are really the only two

6:28

things in here that I think actually

6:30

tie this to any particular timeline

6:33

at all. This could be today,

6:36

it could be in

6:38

the 18 hundreds. Like there's, there's not a

6:41

whole lot there that really fixes

6:43

it to a specific time. So I think that

6:45

really helps when you

6:47

look at whether it held up or not, because there's

6:49

not much to date. It, there's

6:51

certainly like no real pop culture references.

6:54

And I , I think that the book in general kind

6:57

of makes the case for if it's good

6:59

writing, it's good writing, right. Like it

7:01

will hold up. Well, I think we talked similarly

7:04

about like roll of thunder, hear my cry? Mm-hmm

7:06

. <affirmative> , where it's like the writing is just good. So

7:08

like, honestly, the characters

7:10

could be in any time the , the relationships

7:13

could be in any time because they're just speaking

7:15

truths about how people are

7:17

with each other and what family means. So I

7:19

thought it held up really well.

7:22

This is probably like a sad aspect of

7:24

the book, but even the racism in

7:27

it. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> is not like dated.

7:29

Like it's not to a specific point, cuz it was

7:31

about burning churches and that happened

7:33

for like decades. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> and that

7:36

sort of racism like continues So today.

7:38

So I think for the longest time I

7:40

wasn't like situated in any sort of

7:42

decade, which I think also helped

7:44

with the read, I think cuz

7:47

after a certain time I think I just gave

7:49

up and just read it as a story. And

7:51

like Heather said, the writing is gonna stand

7:54

out no matter what

7:55

One thing. So I know that

7:57

the book, there's the , the addition of the book that

7:59

I have has like some like, not

8:02

fun facts, but like, they have like discussion

8:04

questions and they also have activities and

8:07

projects that they recommend. And one of

8:09

the things that it mentions before they give an idea

8:11

for an activity is it mentions that, um, heaven

8:13

is set in the summer of 1996 when

8:15

a large number of black churches in the south were burned

8:17

down. So that was something that I wasn't super familiar

8:20

with, like the summer of 1996, specifically

8:22

being a time period for that. But

8:25

I , I figured it was around maybe the nineties

8:27

or early two thou . But then again, also when

8:29

you think about when the book came out. But, um, I was figured

8:31

because there was something where like, you know, her Uncle

8:34

Jack writes her letters and when

8:36

we find out more about who her mom, her

8:38

actual mom was, they wrote , they wrote

8:40

each other love letters and she, Marley says

8:43

something or thinks something about how like, you

8:45

know, nobody would write love letters now

8:47

they would just send each other emails. And I think that's

8:49

so funny because now it's like nobody would send each

8:51

other emails.

8:52

They would just send each other text messages or

8:54

like they'd slide in the dms or something like that.

8:57

<laugh> .

8:58

So that came to mind. Um , but that's

9:00

not something that I feel like super dated it to

9:02

be honest. But I , it was just something funny that I,

9:04

that stood out to me.

9:05

Yeah. And that is a truism, right? That

9:08

people don't write love letters anymore. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> people

9:10

should write love letters, but there is, I

9:12

mean, that is a dying thing. Yeah . People don't

9:15

take pen to paper very

9:17

often. And that's been true now for decades

9:20

I guess. Yeah. But

9:22

I think there is still a truth to that now because

9:24

I think that's one of those things when you go to a

9:26

museum where you're like looking at like a history

9:28

book and you see all of these handwritten things, they

9:32

hit different when those are not commonplace things

9:34

to you, which they aren't. Yeah . You

9:36

know?

9:36

Yeah. Like, um , when I went to the National Book Festival

9:39

that , uh , the Library of Congress table had,

9:41

uh , Rosa Park this handwritten, uh

9:43

, pancake recipe and she puts peanut

9:46

butter in it apparently. So <laugh>, so

9:48

like they had copies to give out. So like I have a copy

9:50

at home and I'm like, if it was typed out, I probably wouldn't

9:52

have thought anything of it, but it was like a photocopied, handwritten

9:55

version of her pancake recipe. I'm gonna give

9:57

this a try maybe one day.

9:58

That's so funny. I actually, the

10:00

other day I sent Hannah, uh

10:02

, my great-grandmother's milk

10:05

rice recipe and when

10:08

I got it out Yeah. It's handwritten

10:10

and it , it just Yeah.

10:12

It hits you different like that it

10:15

makes it so much more personal in some way.

10:17

Yeah.

10:17

And like you get a sense of like who they were,

10:20

but even by like how you write, I know that there's

10:22

like no way to really tell someone's personality through

10:24

their writing <laugh> . Um , but yeah,

10:26

I get , yeah, it personalizes it. You

10:28

get a sense of who they were. And I

10:30

feel like that's a really important thing

10:33

here in this book mm-hmm. <affirmative> because

10:35

she doesn't really know her real parents. Right.

10:38

And so she , but she does have

10:41

those like love letters and then all those letters

10:43

she's gotten from Uncle Jack Yeah . This

10:45

whole time. So I think that that

10:47

is a way that she connects and like

10:49

bonds to them a little more because

10:51

otherwise they're just people she's

10:54

like never seen before.

10:55

Mm-hmm. <affirmative> . Yeah. There's something so like visceral

10:58

about a letter. Yeah . I think in

11:00

a way that is not true with a text

11:02

or an email. And I, yeah,

11:04

I , I commented on the people don't write love

11:06

letters anymore in my notes too. Cause

11:08

I was just like, ah , this so

11:10

true problem .

11:12

And like even Marley makes that connection like

11:14

very early on. Like people don't really write letters just

11:17

in , she says love letters, but you know, just in

11:19

general. So I think the fact that letters

11:21

aren't a thing that's commonly done, but

11:24

in her relationship with her Uncle Jack, it's

11:26

something that they do commonly. I think that also

11:28

creates a special kind of bond. Um,

11:31

like cuz I mean what , what a 14 year old is

11:34

constantly writing letters to a relative that they've

11:36

never met and they're having conversations about important

11:39

things she's telling him about her friends

11:41

that she has and things that they do

11:43

during the day. And it just all feels so

11:46

genuine. And

11:47

Would she have done that on email? Like it's

11:49

such a different medium than

11:52

she does not know him. Yeah . But she

11:54

does know him through the letters. Like he's so

11:56

much more real to her because these

11:58

are coming written by hand and the care

12:01

that's put into that than

12:03

if it was just an email correspondence or even

12:05

if they were on the phone. I feel like there's still like

12:07

a distance there. And it's interesting

12:09

that that's how he's choosing

12:11

to correspond with her. And you look back in

12:13

his past and that's clearly how he

12:16

and Christine were choosing to correspond with

12:18

each other. And like, I

12:19

Didn't even think about it like that . The

12:20

Significance of that for him

12:22

seems really huge. Like that

12:25

that shows how much he loves her

12:28

Mm-hmm . <affirmative> . And it's almost like he's passing along

12:30

a piece of her Christine

12:32

to Marley. Like, this is what we did together and

12:35

this is something we do together. Even though you

12:37

don't know that this is why I'm doing that.

12:38

Well, it's something you can keep. Right? Yeah

12:40

. Like that accumulates. I mean like, yes,

12:43

our inboxes accumulate <laugh> , but

12:45

like, that's a very different thing. It lives in

12:47

a cloud. It doesn't live in real life, but

12:49

like physical letters, you have your drawer full of letters,

12:51

you have your box, you know, the box

12:53

that she gets of her mom's things and the letters

12:55

are in there . They're physical things.

12:58

Like they exist, they're real, they're,

13:00

I , I don't know. I think that that's a really, um,

13:03

that's a beautiful part of this book I really

13:05

like that

13:06

Are things that you can do to personalize letters as

13:08

well. Like some people like to spray a little bit of their perfume

13:10

on it. Like when this case, I think the letters and the pedals

13:12

were together. So I

13:14

mean, yeah, you can add an emoji on the text message, but it

13:17

just doesn't hit the same.

13:18

But that's the emojis that anyone can use. <laugh>

13:20

, yeah . <laugh> . Yeah.

13:22

I feel like this book is very much kind

13:25

of like a before she knows and

13:27

then after she knows, how do you all feel

13:29

about how her parents told

13:31

her the truth? Because it's almost like, what

13:34

I was wondering is like if that church did

13:36

not burn down and they didn't randomly

13:38

reach out to get her, what

13:41

was it her , was it her record

13:43

or something like that? Which is that realistic that that's

13:45

how they would, like, how would they know to reach out if

13:47

it was burnt anyway? It

13:49

Was very mocking that like they

13:51

needed some sort of thing to create

13:54

that plot twist. Yes. But yeah,

13:56

I mean, what was their plan? Were they

13:58

just gonna wait until Jack decided? Like,

14:00

yeah, now it's time to finally meet. Oh, I

14:02

guess we better tell her that's her dad. Were

14:04

they not going to say anything at all? Were they gonna

14:07

just play it by ear? Wait

14:09

until she was 18. There doesn't seem

14:11

to be any plan and ugh

14:14

, yeah. Just someone

14:16

that used to work in child welfare, like

14:18

this is not the way to do this. Like this

14:20

is, and and deeply unsettling

14:23

for her on so

14:25

many levels. Like how , how do

14:27

you get trust back with your child if

14:31

their very identity was something

14:33

you lied to them about? I think that's,

14:35

And like they even changed her name. They

14:37

Changed her name. Yeah.

14:40

It , and I thought it was interesting

14:42

showing Buty also

14:44

being like , put his <laugh> , I hope , I

14:47

hope I biologic find

14:49

that birth certificate. But

14:51

like, you also understand it because like that

14:53

the ripple effects of this lie, it affects

14:56

him as well because if they lied to her, they

14:58

could have lied to him too. You know? And

15:00

He's younger so it's like, he's

15:02

like, well if she's older and they lied, they could

15:05

have lied to her my every and that happened before

15:07

me so that that my whole life could

15:09

be a lie too.

15:09

Yeah. And, and even if they didn't,

15:12

he's lost something fundamental too. He

15:14

thinks this was his blood sister and

15:16

it turns out no, actually she's your cousin,

15:18

she's not your sister at all. And

15:21

I, I did think it was really, it

15:23

was just really well drawn. She kept going back

15:25

to the hands that mm-hmm

15:27

. <affirmative> Marley would look at her mom's hands, thought

15:30

to herself, her hands , I have my mom's hands and

15:34

learning this. She realizes she has

15:36

no blood tie to her mother at

15:38

all. Like she is not in any way biologically

15:41

connected to the woman who has raised her. And

15:43

so losing that, like losing

15:46

that, you know, tie to your parent,

15:48

the tie to what you think your

15:51

very blood is like that's,

15:53

that has to be just incredibly shocking

15:56

and jarring. And I think it's interesting

15:59

that Johnson has Marley's

16:01

story running in parallel to shies

16:03

mm-hmm. <affirmative> Because in many

16:05

ways it's the same thing, right? Shies had

16:07

the burden of this like perfection and

16:09

like facade of everything

16:12

is perfect and we're the great suburban family

16:14

and everything's nice and everyone's pretty

16:17

and everything is well that

16:19

her parents have sort of created and

16:22

she's pushed against that because she knows

16:24

it's not really true. But Marley's

16:26

had the same thing. She's had

16:29

this very idyllic childhood that

16:32

she's believed was true and

16:34

she finds out that was all a facade as well. And

16:36

so her perfect childhood wasn't actually

16:38

a perfect childhood. It was actually a very traumatic childhood,

16:41

but no one bothered to tell her.

16:43

So I think that that was an interesting way

16:46

to run the two girls stories parallel to

16:48

each other. Obviously they deal with it

16:51

in very different ways. Shaggy

16:53

turns it in on herself a lot more than Marley

16:55

does. Marley is much more outward. She's angry.

16:58

Like very angry. And she should be.

17:01

Yeah. I think I kept trying to think

17:03

back to like,

17:05

I guess one would've been a

17:07

good time to tell her, like when would she have

17:10

been I guess like old enough to really comprehend

17:13

mm-hmm . <affirmative> that these people that have been raising her are

17:15

not her real parents and this guy that she's

17:17

not guy but like her uncle, you

17:20

know, who she's been corresponding

17:22

with is her actual father. And like,

17:24

it just feels like a lot. And so,

17:27

I don't know cuz I kept, I kept thinking back

17:29

to how she was 14. I do think that

17:31

by that point she could have

17:33

started to understand maybe a little bit before

17:35

then mm-hmm. <affirmative> it didn't make me feel

17:37

a little bad for, you know, the people who

17:39

raised her like her parents because it,

17:43

it is tough to like figure out when that

17:45

right time is, when they are emotionally

17:47

ready to hear

17:49

that kind of thing.

17:51

Yeah. And I think it was interesting

17:53

how like when they had the

17:55

box of letters and

17:58

like little keepsakes, they, they kind

18:00

of just slid it in her room when she was asleep.

18:02

Mm-hmm . <affirmative> almost like, and

18:05

you know, I think at that point when they slid it in her

18:07

room, Marley had already kind of been like

18:09

tiptoeing or not tiptoeing around them, but

18:11

just kind of feeling like, you know, her angst

18:14

towards them. So maybe they just were

18:16

trying to avoid that angst. Then I

18:18

think this book does a really good job at capturing

18:21

the, the awkwardness

18:23

of the conversation, I guess in a way. Like

18:25

they were just kind of like, here's this letter.

18:27

They let her read it out loud and let her kind of

18:29

come to her own conclusion with what

18:32

that meant. So

18:34

I , I thought that was really interesting cuz it

18:36

does a really good job at like showing like, hey, this

18:38

is not a perfect conversation to have. One

18:41

thing that I thought that was interesting about the book

18:43

just in general, it didn't

18:45

do the typical or what I would've expected of

18:47

the book. Um, you know, full circle at

18:49

the end where it's like, yeah,

18:51

we may not be blood but we're still your

18:53

parents cuz we raised you. It didn't really

18:56

necessarily do that in the

18:58

direct way that I thought it

18:59

Would. Yeah. And it kind of just came to the conclusion

19:01

that yeah, these are the people that have

19:03

raised me. Like it's not gonna take away the

19:05

fact that a

19:08

part of them has already kind of like come onto

19:10

me just by being with them

19:12

all these years. Like that's, that

19:14

can't change just because

19:17

the truth, like the real truth of it is that

19:19

I'm not, you know , related by blood to them.

19:21

They still showered me with their love

19:24

and I will always be marked by that. So.

19:26

Well said. I

19:29

think something else that I thought was interesting

19:31

just that they live in a town called Heaven Ohio.

19:34

Mm . You know, the whole thing is that, um , they've

19:36

lived there since she was two years old because her

19:38

mom found a postcard that was marked

19:40

Heaven, Ohio on a parking bench and she

19:43

said that's where she wanted her family to live. So

19:46

do you feel like for

19:48

this book to be called heaven, do you feel like there was

19:50

enough incorporated into this book to kind

19:53

of give that like, vibe, like what elements

19:55

of heaven do you feel like we're incorporated into

19:57

this book in this town? And also I was curious as

20:00

to if Heaven Ohio is a real town and I don't

20:02

think it is just

20:04

No , I think this is definitely meant to be based

20:06

on the town that Angela Johnson grew

20:08

up in. Yes . She grew up in a town that was

20:10

like 2000 people and it seems

20:12

similar in mm-hmm . <affirmative> size

20:14

and like the sorts of relationships you have in a

20:17

town of that

20:17

Size. Especially cuz she was born in

20:19

Alabama and like Marley's character ended up

20:22

in

20:22

Ohio and grew up primarily in

20:24

Ohio. And it is interesting

20:26

that she chose the name. I mean like, I

20:28

think that that imagery is maybe a little heavy handed

20:30

at time where it's like, okay,

20:33

the town is named heaven and look, it's like, it's

20:36

very idyllic. The

20:38

neighbors know each other and like, you meet your

20:40

best friend there and it's safe. And

20:43

and

20:43

The postcards that they send out have people coming out

20:45

of clouds. <laugh>.

20:46

Yeah , <laugh> .

20:48

And like the , the lady that runs

20:50

the like general store basically, she

20:52

knows everybody and she's opened around the clock

20:54

and her son brings tomatoes to people except

20:57

for

20:57

When she stops to pray. Oh yeah . Maybe

20:59

Pray because real

21:00

Skeptical <laugh>

21:04

.

21:05

Um, but yeah, so that's

21:08

a little bit heavy handed , but I think that

21:10

if we play that imagery out,

21:12

it does get to an interesting place because

21:15

that's all a lie. Yeah . Right.

21:18

So like, I I , the message

21:20

is heaven is a lie like

21:22

<laugh> ,

21:23

You know, the , I I mean I do think that

21:25

part of the take home is everybody's

21:28

got stuff, right? Everyone

21:30

has baggage. So even this girl that

21:32

didn't know that she had baggage, she

21:35

has it too. Like no one's perfect,

21:37

that is a facade. The town's not perfect.

21:39

She's not perfect. The family's not perfect. Shaggy's

21:42

perfect mom is not perfect, but

21:44

that's not what really makes something heaven. Right.

21:47

So like at the end of the day, I think she's trying to redirect

21:49

us from Yeah. It's not

21:52

the superficial things about

21:54

it. It's not that the town is named heaven, that

21:56

has nothing to do with why the town is

21:58

a good place to live. It's about

22:01

the people, it's about the relationships, it's about

22:03

the substance. And I don't know, I

22:05

, I don't know how successful that is in

22:08

landing. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> as a metaphor for kids or

22:10

not. I thought it was a fairly sophisticated,

22:14

you know, with heaven being like, this

22:16

seems very unsophisticated

22:18

writing, like I'm gonna name the town heaven

22:20

. But I think the message about it

22:22

and what she's trying to do with that metaphor is a

22:24

little bit more sophisticated than it seems, at

22:26

least in the initial parts of the book.

22:29

Yeah. I was trying to figure out if

22:31

I, uh , if

22:34

it was strong enough to have that scene where she

22:36

said that she had a dream and everyone in her

22:38

life had wings, but then sugary

22:40

and it's Bobby , right? Mm-hmm . <affirmative> that

22:42

both of them have wings but can't fly.

22:45

They were casting them on,

22:45

I think. Yeah. They were basting them on. And

22:48

then you have Marley who just

22:50

has no wings. And I , I just

22:52

wonder like, does it come across

22:55

as like each of them are on their journey to

22:57

being, or maybe pretending

22:59

to be like they belong in this

23:01

part is like heavenly town.

23:04

Yeah. I don't know. <laugh> , it's like trying to

23:06

figure that out if I, if I feel like

23:08

it was strong enough that like kids would understand

23:11

what , see

23:12

And I think that's where I'm getting

23:14

stuck to . Yeah . I don't know if it would

23:16

land for a child. And again, I did not

23:18

read this one when I was Yeah . A child.

23:20

And I feel like this book is, you

23:22

know, a book that you read when you're 11 or 12

23:25

and you really, it would resonate, but

23:27

I didn't read it at that time. So I only have adult

23:29

eyes to look at the text with. I

23:32

, I do also wonder if there's something in there

23:34

about forgiveness. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-hmm <affirmative> . Like what

23:36

really makes heaven heaven

23:39

in the end it's about

23:41

forgiveness and acceptance. You

23:43

know, it's her being okay with her parents

23:45

and Okay with Jack for not

23:48

being truthful with her and still

23:50

having love at the end. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> for

23:53

them as flawed people as they are.

23:55

I don't know if we quite get there or not.

23:58

Yeah . For a kid reader, but,

23:59

Right. Exactly. And there's another

24:01

part in the book where Marley, I keep wanting

24:03

to call her heaven, Marley and sh are sitting

24:05

on top of the water tower and they're like , Marley

24:09

is, you know, upset about finding out what

24:11

she found out about her parents. And she's like,

24:13

like, come on, just get up here and yell with me.

24:15

And Marley's like, can you just yell for

24:17

me? It's almost something about them sitting

24:19

on top of a water tower up so

24:21

high makes me wonder if that was supposed to

24:24

be some kind of like imagery as well. Like,

24:26

cuz they , she , they stand up on, I think there's one point where they're

24:29

standing up and it's just like, they're kind of like in the clouds

24:31

and it's almost like, is this as close to

24:33

heaven as like you're gonna get right now?

24:35

And they're just yelling and they're, they're

24:37

, I forgot what the exact line was, but

24:39

it's something about like, you're yelling , you're up so

24:41

high, you're yelling and it's almost like somebody could

24:43

maybe hear you, but it's like, who are you yelling for

24:46

or who do you want to hear you? And I

24:49

just thought that was really interesting. I'm

24:51

curious about, and I don't know, and it

24:53

doesn't touch on it much, I'm curious about

24:55

how Bobby and Marley

24:58

met, because it does mention that he's a

25:00

few years older than her and they seem like they were

25:02

really close. Oh . But no, was it because

25:05

he was

25:05

Posted that for the baby ? Yeah .

25:07

Yeah. So I guess, yeah, that does answer that question

25:09

how they met. But it's still just interesting to

25:11

me that they're like friends. I

25:13

Guess the whole thing was interesting because

25:15

he posted the ad and like, you

25:18

know , I'm reading it and I'm thinking this

25:20

dates it a little bit because you're not gonna

25:22

let your, you know , 14 year old

25:24

girl hang out with this like 20 ish

25:26

year old man. Is

25:28

That about what he

25:28

Is? I think he's like early twenties

25:31

at the most

25:32

Probably. Yeah. Yeah. Because she says like, he's not

25:34

that much older than me.

25:35

Yeah. Like, so I , I

25:38

did find that a little bit. I was kinda

25:40

like, ugh , that's a little odd.

25:42

Like I don't think many parents are gonna let their

25:45

daughter like just spend like hours and

25:47

hours with Yeah . A guy that's like

25:49

that age. It seems to be

25:51

just a stoner with like a baby .

25:54

Yeah. And the father's just like, you're

25:56

such a good friend when she like talks about what

25:58

she does for Bobby , I'm like, well

26:00

,

26:00

I mean , but then she did sort of acknowledge

26:02

it because the first, she said the first day

26:05

when she went for the job, her mom made

26:07

her take sugar with her. Yeah . In case it

26:09

was like, but

26:12

then it was like, well, but then after

26:14

that you're still just like letting this 14

26:16

year old like

26:17

Right around town out because he like picks them up and

26:19

they go on trips. Like

26:21

She's just hanging out with this like 20

26:23

year old dude all the time. Which

26:25

is, I don't know, I mean I guess

26:27

it's a real small town, but like yeah , that

26:30

would raise eyebrows I think anywhere

26:33

now like that just that

26:36

don't look right. And it's

26:38

a little weird

26:38

Because I know that there is a book

26:41

about his life beforehand. I figured

26:43

he's not a bad person, but it, if

26:46

I didn't know that, I would've wondered like, is this,

26:48

is this story going somewhere? Is

26:50

he like a bad

26:52

First ? Is he grooming right ? Is he grooming?

26:53

Like

26:54

Yeah .

26:55

Yeah. It was one of those characters where you're just

26:57

like, this is a choice so I'm gonna

26:59

follow it through because the author like

27:01

wants us to Yeah. But I was

27:03

also just very skeptical of the whole thing. But I'm

27:06

like, yeah, I mean he's a sounding board

27:08

for her. Like he's the one that's like Yeah, do

27:10

everything in your own time. And obviously

27:12

like the parallels of, you know, the fact

27:14

that he is a single father and he

27:16

chose to actually raise his daughter in

27:19

opposition to someone like Uncle Jack who just

27:21

couldn't mm-hmm . <affirmative> or like just felt like he couldn't,

27:23

so yeah, I , I guess I understand the

27:25

author's intentions, but I kept just

27:28

being kind of weirded out by it. Mm-hmm.

27:31

<affirmative>. Yeah, because yeah, I don't know, couldn't

27:33

have been like intentional grooming, but it was still

27:35

like strange, it

27:37

Weird like, and also she's like helping

27:39

him raise his baby.

27:42

Like there was the one part where her brother's like, oh, I thought you were watching

27:44

brother today. She's like, oh no, she had a doctor's

27:46

appointment. So Bobby decided to take her cuz he didn't

27:48

wanna put that on me. And I'm just like, but why would you be taking her

27:50

to a doctor's appointment anyway? Like, but

27:53

overall he really just, he seems like actually

27:55

a really, really good guy. And like , he's just

27:57

like a , he does big brother type figure

27:59

I guess,

28:00

But also like they've known each other for like

28:02

six weeks. Has

28:03

It really only been six weeks?

28:04

It's in July. Right. Because

28:06

they peg it to the Halloween in July

28:08

thing. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> And then when she's talking about

28:10

when she saw like the ad in stuff, it

28:13

was bef like summer break basically.

28:15

That's why she can babysit all the time is

28:17

cuz she's on break from school. So it was

28:19

like,

28:20

I got real close, real quick. What's

28:22

Going on? This is so

28:24

weird.

28:25

Yeah. I think, I think it was interesting

28:27

though was to have him as a device to kind of pair up

28:29

against Uncle Jack because you know, he's

28:32

not Yes. He's not

28:34

present in the way that

28:36

a parent, you know, would be, but

28:38

he did make sure that his child

28:41

was being taken care of.

28:43

Did he? I mean he made

28:45

sure that someone was raising her, but

28:48

like I was just like,

28:50

what's going on with the money? Because when

28:52

we find out that the money mm-hmm . <affirmative> came

28:55

from the

28:56

Car, said

28:57

It was like a Ford Explorer rollover death

28:59

or something. I was like, why was the car

29:01

manufacturer on the hook for this woman's

29:04

desk ? Right . So then I was thinking like,

29:06

this must be a reference to the like Ford

29:08

Explorer rollovers in the nineties.

29:10

Cuz that was when it was set. Oh wow. But

29:13

then , so like , so he got a ton of money from

29:15

the car manufacturer because of

29:17

like a wrongful death suit, but

29:20

then he's just taking the money. Yeah.

29:22

Like they're just constantly wiring it

29:25

to him. It doesn't ever say like that that money's

29:27

going towards her schooling

29:30

or her activities or anything like

29:33

that. Yeah . It's just like, no, we keep it because

29:35

you would've burned through it all and

29:37

then we just wire it to you on

29:39

One install

29:40

So that you can be a hobo <laugh>

29:43

. Which is ,

29:45

But you know , and at some point he does say

29:47

that, you know, maybe I should start to

29:49

settle down. He's

29:50

Almost 50 <laugh> . I

29:53

was just like, wait ,

29:54

The family

29:55

On the side of the road and they're eating ice

29:57

cream and they look like they're having a really good

29:59

time. And he's like, okay, maybe boy would like a

30:01

yard. Like

30:02

No, that's so odd. And then

30:04

like you've got Bobby, who, you

30:07

know, stone teen parent dude looks

30:10

way more mature in <laugh>

30:13

contrast to Dak who was like middle

30:16

age and like just knocking

30:19

about the country and his van with his

30:21

dog. And like, I don't like

30:23

what is going on with that whole

30:25

situation, but if you like

30:27

go based on his age,

30:29

He would've been there . He was not . Yeah. He

30:31

Would've been already a very established

30:33

man mm-hmm.

30:34

<affirmative>. Yeah .

30:35

When

30:35

She was born. So ,

30:37

So did he just drop everything after his

30:39

Mom died ? He gave up on being an

30:41

adult after that. I,

30:43

And then it's just like, you know, she didn't

30:46

die at like,

30:48

she didn't die giving birth. Right. So she

30:50

, he had at least, I can't tell if

30:53

it's a couple months or a couple like up like two years .

30:55

Two a couple years .

30:55

Years, yeah .

30:56

With that they were Marley raising the

30:59

child together and apparently quite happy

31:02

they're writing love letters to each other. And did

31:04

You have like no connection to that child

31:07

or not enough of a connection to want

31:09

to keep her, at least to feel

31:11

like you had a part of her

31:13

with you? And I mean, that's not a grief that I've experienced,

31:16

so I can't speak on that. But it, there

31:18

are questions about that for me. Like, it

31:20

makes me wonder like,

31:22

Well did, or maybe

31:24

it might have been Marley like wondering

31:27

Right. Because obviously she has all these questions, but

31:29

no one's there to really answer. But she's also not

31:32

trying to ask anyone. Yeah. But I do think

31:34

there's like a point in time where maybe she is wondering

31:36

if maybe she looks too much like

31:38

her mom and maybe that she's gonna be a constant

31:41

reminder . But like ,

31:42

I grow up , dude, like I

31:45

, again , like his whole character, maybe I'm

31:47

on Reddit too much, but this all felt like,

31:50

am I the ex <laugh> ? I had

31:52

a child in my thirties, I'm

31:54

a Vietnam vet, I was married

31:56

to this woman, she died in

31:58

a car accident and I just can't handle

32:01

it anymore. So I'm ditching the

32:03

baby with my brother

32:05

and his wife mm-hmm . <affirmative> . And I'm just gonna

32:07

drive around the country with a

32:09

series of dogs.

32:12

That's

32:12

The whole thing with the dog being named boy.

32:14

Like, and they , it , it's one

32:16

of those questions that come up in the book

32:18

as a discussion question. And I'm just like, is there

32:20

supposed to be some kind of deep meaning behind this? Is it something

32:22

like a , you know, he just can't let go of his past

32:24

and he wants to hold onto that element

32:27

of the past, but it's like you didn't wanna hold onto your,

32:29

the element of your daughter. Like

32:31

Yeah . <laugh> , I I was wondering if that was like a

32:33

sort of extension

32:35

of grief, like that you would

32:37

Keep, he still can't get over the

32:39

loss of those dogs, so he just keeps replacing

32:41

them with other dogs. Yeah. I don't know. Some

32:44

people are just like that. Like one of my

32:46

friend's uncles when we were growing up always had dogs that

32:48

were named do g like

32:50

for dogs . So do og <laugh> and

32:53

like every dog he had was named that. Some

32:55

people are just weird.

32:55

Okay. <laugh> .

32:56

Okay. So one thing that we haven't talked about a

32:58

lot about yet that I I think we

33:00

should try to get a little bit more into if we have anything

33:03

to say is about Shaggy's family. The

33:05

Maples. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> . Um , because

33:07

you know, they're portrayed as this like perfect

33:09

family, like with the mom and the

33:12

dad and the twin boys and the daughter and Shaggy's

33:14

. Just the one that's not perfect, like

33:16

the rest of them. And you

33:18

know, Suggy has this clear like, you

33:20

know, annoyance at her family for being

33:23

so for whatever it

33:25

is being so perfect or we

33:27

don't get really full context. And

33:29

it's funny because, you know, there's

33:32

one point where Marley's like, you know, I

33:34

really am trying to hate them because, or

33:36

dis like dislike them because I know that Su

33:39

does. But she's like, she's

33:41

like , I don't know why I'm doing this. I , I , they , they seem

33:43

like really nice. Like it's not even like they

33:46

seem like they're forcing her to

33:48

be something that she's not because they've accepted

33:50

that she's different, but they're just

33:52

like, I don't know. Like

33:55

I'm still trying to figure them out. One thing that I thought was

33:57

interesting also, there was one part where like her

33:59

parent SU's parents are

34:02

like dressed in matching like white tennis outfits.

34:04

And I also thought that was, I don't know if

34:06

that was supposed to be some kind of like imagery

34:09

about them being in heaven in

34:11

the perfect family, but Yeah.

34:12

Mm . Yeah. I I

34:14

I do remember when she said that I wonder,

34:17

I , I guess she gets

34:19

to be herself though because she's so

34:21

antagonistic. Like I don't know that she can

34:23

go back now. Like I , I

34:26

do think that she finally carved her

34:28

space and that family for them to just accept

34:30

that she is who she is and she's gonna be

34:33

who she is. But I, I feel

34:35

like she's just kind of keeping the momentum. Like

34:37

she can't go back to just being

34:39

like okay with them. Like

34:41

I , I think that it's just, and and

34:44

also she pushes a lot of things down

34:46

mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so I don't think that she's ever really

34:48

explored why it is that

34:51

she is so upset with them

34:53

trying to be so perfect. Cuz

34:55

there is a line where she does

34:57

that. Like that Marley doesn't let

34:59

enough things go and that she feels too

35:01

much and needs to learn how to do something about

35:03

that. So yeah. I , I also just

35:06

feel like she hasn't like fully explored

35:08

how to kind of be

35:11

at peace with the fact that her family

35:13

is who they're gonna be. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> and she's gonna be who

35:15

she's gonna be and it doesn't necessarily

35:17

have to be like, there doesn't

35:20

have to be that much friction there.

35:22

I just felt like there had to be something

35:24

more sinister going on. Yeah

35:27

. Other than just the not fitting piece

35:30

because really they were pretty supportive

35:32

of her not fitting in the grants. I

35:34

mean I guess they're kind of like ignoring it part

35:37

of the time. Yeah. But it doesn't, you're

35:39

not seeing a lot of friction there. You're not seeing

35:41

her mom like saying, oh I'm so disappointed

35:44

in you. You see her mom really glad

35:46

that she found a friend. Yeah. You don't

35:48

see her mom trying to get her

35:50

to wear different clothes or behave

35:53

in a different way. She's

35:55

just, you

35:57

know, it seems more like she's worried for her kid.

36:00

Mm-hmm . <affirmative> and like is just glad that

36:02

she seems more grounded now

36:04

that she's hanging out with Marley. I

36:07

don't know, I also, I had like

36:09

strong JonBenet vibes with the like

36:12

pageants. I was like, there must be something

36:14

bad in this and then it never came up.

36:16

Right .

36:16

And it's just like, so are

36:19

we just imagining that? I

36:21

feel like it was barely alluded

36:23

to but it's, for me, I feel

36:26

like, you know, considering the

36:28

, the targeted age for this

36:30

book, it needed to , if that was where

36:32

she was going with it, it probably needed to be a

36:35

little bit more into

36:37

the story cuz it kind

36:39

of just reads as like, okay, this

36:42

girl just doesn't like her

36:44

family but like she's also like, we know that she's

36:46

self-harming. So it's like,

36:49

Yeah ,

36:49

There maybe is more to

36:51

it. Like

36:52

Well, so there's the whole background on the pageant

36:55

thing, which when, when

36:57

that came up I thought the

37:00

direction it was going was gonna be that

37:03

her parents had put this like

37:05

overwhelming burden of perfection

37:07

on her to look a certain way to be a certain

37:09

way. And that when she

37:11

couldn't do that there was some kind of backlash.

37:13

But we actually don't see that at all. It's

37:16

like she's trotted out to

37:18

pageants and does well at them. As

37:21

long as her mom's sitting in the right place where

37:23

she can see her, then the

37:25

one time that doesn't happen, she freaks

37:27

out and has a tantrum. And I guess

37:29

that's the end of it for the pageants. But

37:32

we don't see like, oh, her parents

37:34

tried to force her to keep doing pageants

37:36

or that there was some sort of retaliation

37:38

because she messed up the pageant. So

37:42

all I kind of got to was that sugary

37:44

felt like it wasn't really

37:46

about her. That she was just one of the

37:48

things that her parents were doing mm-hmm

37:50

. <affirmative> to look a certain way. Like look

37:52

at our beautiful daughter, look at our beautiful

37:54

car, but they don't

37:56

really know who she is and she's just really

37:59

struggling with that idea

38:01

of like, I'm not even a person. They don't even see

38:03

me. I'm just a thing.

38:06

I'm an accessory to this perfect

38:09

suburban life that they have and I

38:12

can't be that. But yeah,

38:14

again, she's six when she starts hurting

38:16

herself and that

38:19

seems like a lot for a six year old to

38:21

be internalizing and putting together. So

38:23

I felt like there had to be some other catalyst

38:25

for like, there

38:28

must have been something more than just like, oh

38:30

you can do pageant. Say , oh well you don't want to, it's

38:33

fine. Like there must have been something else there.

38:35

Or at least more weight to the like, we're

38:39

disappointed in you because you can't do this

38:41

anymore.

38:42

Yeah. And there's, there's so

38:44

much about sugary story and I think Bobby's

38:47

story that leaves that we are left

38:49

wondering about. And you know, there's a part

38:51

where it's expressed in the book that

38:53

I think Marley's mom says to her, you

38:56

don't, you don't ask questions about people's

38:58

past like you do , you don't care.

39:00

And I think Marley says

39:03

something about like the , the past being

39:05

like a different person or version of

39:07

who they were, where it doesn't matter in the present,

39:09

First of all, they're in this little town in

39:11

what sounds like pretty industrial Ohio.

39:15

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So maybe like there's,

39:18

there's Amish nearby there

39:20

, so they're like in this hybrid rural

39:22

slash industry cuz her dad works

39:25

at the like wood

39:26

Yeah. With lumber. The lumber

39:27

Mill mm-hmm <affirmative> essentially. But

39:30

then Shay's family is depicted

39:32

as this like country club set. The

39:35

mom's always wearing a tennis dress and

39:38

then the dad's like, well this half day

39:40

off of work turned into a whole day. I

39:42

guess let me get back in my Cadillac. It's

39:45

like, what do they do there in

39:47

this tiny town? Like this little

39:49

town does not seem like it would have

39:54

a social singing that would support mm-hmm

39:56

.

39:56

<affirmative> . Right. Especially considering they have this

39:59

one store that kind of has everything.

40:01

It just, they feel kind of cut and cake

40:03

.

40:03

Yeah . Like how are you a lady who lunches

40:06

in a town that there's like no even like

40:08

place to go have aosa with lunch

40:10

. You know, it's weird. And like

40:12

they only moved there like what, a year ago or something?

40:15

Yeah. And there's no explanation why

40:17

did they move there? Yeah. I

40:19

feel like, I do feel like there's something very sinister,

40:21

like maybe , maybe Shay's family's

40:23

in the mob or like , I dunno .

40:26

Yeah. I just feel like I kept trying to

40:28

make it like I I was filling in

40:30

the blanks. Yeah . That like Johnson didn't fill

40:32

in for us. Cuz the same thing I kept, I

40:35

was like waiting for more information

40:37

about why Shay's always so angry, why

40:39

she hates her family, that I would read

40:41

into things. And I'm not saying

40:43

that it wasn't

40:46

obviously like Johnson included

40:48

it for a reason, but I

40:50

don't know that she really was inviting

40:52

that much questioning toward it because there

40:55

was a scene where, you know, they pull

40:57

up in their brand new car and then Shay's

40:59

like very upset like right off the bat. Yeah.

41:02

And Marley's like, are you

41:04

not excited? It's a new car. And she

41:06

like goes up to it and kicks it and

41:08

Then she , she said something like , they always do this or

41:10

Something like that. Yeah . And so then I started thinking like,

41:12

what do they always do? Do they always live outside

41:14

their means? Like do they always go

41:17

for the nicest looking car to seem the most perfect?

41:19

Like what is her anger at ? Exactly. But

41:21

because she's not the kind of person that

41:23

really speaks better feelings, we as readers

41:26

are never gonna know.

41:27

I think the one thing that we haven't talked about

41:31

in like, in detail

41:33

I think is, you know, when Uncle Jack finally does come

41:35

to town, what that was like, I

41:38

, I feel like, you know, for their letters to

41:40

have been so this

41:42

is my life and this is what I do on the daily. Like

41:44

I feel like the part of him coming to town felt

41:46

a little kind of like rushed over.

41:48

Oh it was a little too neat too. Yeah . Because

41:50

as angry as she is with her parents

41:52

about the lie, she

41:55

doesn't really seem to have that same anger

41:57

towards

41:58

That same energy.

41:59

<laugh> . Yeah , exactly . Like why is

42:01

Jack off the hook for abandoning

42:03

you?

42:04

None

42:04

Of this would've happened. Exactly.

42:07

And, and again, if we sort of piece

42:09

out like how old he was at that time, the

42:11

stability of the relationship he had with the mom

42:13

and the general life stability

42:15

that is implied for a man in

42:17

his thirties having a child, what

42:20

the heck? Like that just seems like a

42:22

very, very pointed sort

42:24

of abandonment. It's not even just like, man, my

42:26

life was a mess and I wasn't gonna like put you

42:29

in that. It's like, no, my life was great

42:31

and then your mom died

42:33

and it ruined it and I just couldn't anymore.

42:35

So I got rid of you like you were nothing

42:37

to me. And and she doesn't

42:39

seem to be particularly angry at

42:41

him.

42:41

Right. And you could, and she could say that her parents

42:43

lied to her, but you are in constant communication

42:46

with Uncle Jack who signs his letters as

42:48

Uncle Jack. Yep . So you could easily say that he's lying to

42:50

you

42:50

Too. Every letter was a lie. Yeah . Like, uh

42:52

, yeah, I I think she's not holding

42:54

him to the same standard that she's holding her

42:56

family to and you know,

42:59

that's, that's how feelings

43:01

work, right. We're not like perfectly logical beings

43:03

in how we apportion out, like blame and

43:06

upset. Her parents are clearly

43:08

closer to her. And so, you

43:10

know, maybe her emotions are correspondingly a

43:12

lot worse because those are the people

43:14

that she cared about the most that she sees every day . But

43:17

still there's like nothing.

43:19

Maybe it's, you know, she's,

43:21

because it seems like it's been a few weeks before

43:23

Uncle Jack even kind of comes around, so maybe she's

43:25

been carrying around this angst for a couple of

43:27

weeks and when she finally gets to meet this Uncle

43:30

Jack who she had been curious about before this

43:32

huge bomb had been dropped on her, maybe just

43:34

seeing him just, and you know, actually

43:36

talking to him cuz I , it

43:39

seems like she walks around town with him

43:41

and shows him like the store and he's like, oh is

43:43

this where the Western Union is? And stuff like that. So

43:45

maybe just seeing and being there and

43:47

talking to him and just being there

43:49

with him and her family

43:51

just made her realize that okay, it's not

43:54

everything that I made it out to be, but it

43:56

did feel a little too clean cut and perfect.

43:58

Like I , I read a Good Reads review after

44:00

I marked the book as complete and one of the

44:03

reviews mentioned that, you know, like as

44:05

somebody who went through a similar situation, it

44:07

did feel like it was a little too like

44:11

clean, you know mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

44:13

Yeah . Tied up with a nice little bow . And the other thing

44:15

was were we meant

44:17

to think that he was there before

44:19

he visited her and

44:22

just kind of hanging out because there

44:24

was the, there was the mention of a

44:26

dog that seemed like he

44:28

knew her. Yeah . And I was like, well that's

44:30

boy, but then that's creepy. Like

44:32

why is he like just hanging out in the town for

44:35

while?

44:36

Right . I was wondering that because I thought when I

44:38

saw that and read that part, I thought

44:40

that was gonna be the part where they're like, okay. And

44:42

, and in the next scene he comes up

44:44

to the house, they meet, but then it completely goes,

44:46

No , there's a delay.

44:47

Yeah, there's a delay. And I'm just like, okay .

44:49

Yeah . I mean he finally got to

44:51

a place where he was kind of ready to meet

44:53

her. But even then, I don't know because

44:55

it almost, I think the book also

44:57

makes it seem like her dad

45:00

was the one that reached out to him and was like,

45:02

Hey, I think you need to actually come here and

45:04

explain a few things to her. Like I think she

45:06

needs this kind of thing.

45:07

Well he says in the one letter something

45:10

like, how would you feel about meeting me? Right.

45:13

Or like , but how would you feel about meeting me

45:15

if , if I made it a surprise? But I guess it's not really

45:17

that much of a surprise or something like that.

45:20

Yeah.

45:20

And then what, what are we to

45:22

think happens after that? Because

45:24

Jack has been saying in some of these

45:27

letters like I feel like it might be time

45:29

to settle down and boy could use a yard.

45:31

And like, I feel bad because he

45:33

wanted to stay here with these kids and we

45:35

just keep moving and moving. Are

45:37

we meant to believe that after this Jack

45:39

is gonna settle down in this town

45:42

and like start acting like a normal

45:44

adult or is he just hitting the

45:46

road again? And those

45:49

were kind of BS promises.

45:50

Also saying that you wanna settle down

45:52

to your daughter who

45:54

doesn't know that she's your daughter is very strange.

45:57

Mm-hmm . <affirmative> because it's just like, okay, you technically

45:59

already kind of had this

46:03

like, and then it's just like, okay he's , he's gonna

46:05

settle down in this town and make a new family. Like how is

46:07

that gonna make Marley feel? Obviously these aren't things that

46:09

aren't actually happening, but it's just kind

46:11

of like, okay. You

46:14

know , you know. But she's like, what is he doing here? He's not gonna take

46:16

you is he? Uh , so I thought that was

46:18

like real sweet cuz he's like, oh well you're still

46:20

So protective. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

46:23

I didn't know what to think about that either.

46:25

I'm trying to figure out how I feel about him.

46:27

Yeah. Saying like

46:28

The letters seem sweet and genuine, but

46:31

it's just like,

46:32

Yeah. I think that as an adult you're just

46:34

like, there's

46:35

Man , come

46:37

On . Yeah . Pretty much. But yeah,

46:39

I also won cause I was also one of,

46:41

I think someone who finished the book and

46:43

was like, she wasn't angry enough at

46:45

him, but then I guess it almost made

46:47

sense because she doesn't really know him. So

46:50

of like a lot in the second

46:52

half of the book is her speaking

46:54

for him mm-hmm . <affirmative> and you know, wondering

46:57

things about him because obviously he's not there

46:59

to answer any of her questions. And

47:02

so she was like, oh, he must have been in so much grief

47:04

after, you know, my biological mother

47:06

died. And so maybe that was really

47:08

hard for him. But again, I think she

47:10

was able to do that because she didn't know

47:12

him like that other than just correspondence

47:14

through letters. Yeah. I , I don't know,

47:16

I think I , I came away at the end with

47:19

the sense that he doesn't stick around cuz

47:21

I just don't think that that's something, it

47:23

Doesn't seem like it's in his nature.

47:24

Yeah. Like I don't think you can just patch

47:26

that up. I don't think that you can just decide

47:29

that you wanna settle down. I think he

47:31

kind of made his choice and

47:34

this is what it

47:35

Is. I still, I'm just mad about the money

47:37

y'all, because like, how much money

47:39

could he have gotten in this settlement? Like

47:42

14 years ?

47:43

14

47:44

A couple million or something in a

47:46

wrongful death. That money's going

47:48

to him. He's just like, he's

47:51

not giving it to her. Why

47:53

is it not being kept in trust for Marley?

47:55

Like she's the one that lost a parent

47:58

and he's not using it to raise her. So

48:00

why is he getting the money? It's just,

48:03

uh , I

48:04

Not

48:04

A Jack fan . Yeah.

48:06

And

48:06

I think it's something that I think as adults we

48:08

may probably wonder more about than the kids reading

48:10

this. Mm . Um, but even

48:12

still like it do , it does leave to

48:15

wonder like it could be a situation where maybe, you know, he's letting some

48:17

of the , the parents take some of the money, you know, to help

48:19

with the costs of whatever <laugh> . I

48:21

mean, I don't know how likely that is to be honest, but it

48:23

, it is something that I wonder about, but I don't know if the kids

48:26

reading this book would wonder

48:26

About. Yeah. But it does just subsidize him

48:29

having an easier life rather than

48:31

Yeah. The

48:33

Working .

48:33

Yeah. The more obvious choice would've been

48:35

like he keeps working and that money just

48:37

stays in a trust or something until

48:39

she turns of age and you know, maybe she

48:41

can get like, you know , further her education

48:43

or whatever. But yeah,

48:46

it , it does come across as very selfish.

48:47

Yeah. He's just freeloading off

48:50

of money that should have been providing

48:52

for both of them. Mm-hmm.

48:54

<affirmative> . Yeah . At worse , but probably more just

48:57

for her. Like honestly cause

48:59

Like he has the means to be able to take care

49:01

of himself or she's

49:03

a child. I think, I

49:06

think it's interesting because I think the, you

49:08

know, in , in the view of Marley, it's

49:10

like the parents, the mama and pop pops

49:12

are painted out to be the bad guys for keeping the secret

49:15

from her. But like in reality

49:17

they, they , they're the ones that stepped up

49:19

to take care of her. And granted, yes, they

49:21

could have maybe communicated better

49:23

and you know, eventually at some point like made

49:25

a better decision of when to tell her. But

49:28

Uncle Jack's just the one that was like, okay,

49:30

deuces . And he gets the kind of like slide in and Yeah.

49:33

He just ned out of the situation cuz

49:35

it got hard. I I

49:37

also wonder are we supposed to think he's mentally

49:39

ill though? Because there is the thing about

49:42

how he has to use the codes at Western Union

49:44

mm-hmm . <affirmative> because he's paranoid about showing his id.

49:46

So are we meant to believe that the

49:49

paranoia indicates something else? There's ,

49:51

And they mention that he was a vet,

49:52

He's a Vietnam vet. There's

49:54

also the part where Shay talks

49:57

about the shadow ghost mm-hmm

49:59

. <affirmative> and then at some point, I

50:02

don't remember who says it, but maybe

50:04

Marley calls Uncle Jack a shadow

50:06

ghost. And so I was like wondering,

50:09

are we supposed to feel like there's

50:11

some element there where like he

50:13

really broke after

50:16

the death of the woman and like

50:18

this is part of it that like he's really not

50:20

stable enough to live anywhere. Yeah.

50:22

And so they're subsidizing him, you

50:25

know, much in the same way that like disability payments

50:27

would go to him. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> . Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But

50:29

nothing about his

50:31

letters or no

50:35

one says that. Right. Yeah . Like it's

50:37

a very mild implication if it's

50:39

there at all. And I'm not sure if we're supposed to pick

50:42

that up as like, you

50:44

know, he's just, he's just broken and

50:46

like he can't do these things rather than he's

50:48

choosing not to do these things because that's

50:51

different. Right. Like if he had some kind of psychotic

50:53

break after his wife died and then

50:55

like took off, it's a lot more

50:58

understandable that like, this

51:00

is how things have played out than if he

51:02

just was like, no, you remind me too much of your

51:04

mom. Bye .

51:05

Yeah. And a lot, you know, I feel like a

51:07

lot about this whole ex , you

51:09

know, situation isn't really explained to Marley.

51:12

Like even when, you know, she

51:14

finds out that it was like a wrongful car

51:16

settlement or, I mean , wrongful, wrongful death

51:18

in the car. That's how he's getting

51:20

money and they're sending him money. Like doesn't she find that out

51:22

from Butchy? Because, but she asked or something like that.

51:24

Like why ? Because Butchy asked the question because

51:27

you're right. They were totally passive in

51:29

revealing this information to her that it

51:31

was the church letters. Then they

51:33

just give her the box. There's not

51:35

ever like hard conversations. No

51:37

one in this family wants to have the hard conversation

51:40

when she's super upset and she's raging

51:42

at everybody. They just walk on eggshells.

51:44

No one wants to talk and

51:47

that's not healthy either. Mm-hmm

51:49

.

51:49

<affirmative> . Yeah. But, and then

51:51

I think that that's where it's helpful that

51:53

she has people like Shay and

51:56

Bobby that she can talk to and kind of work

51:58

these things out with. But yeah, they're

52:00

not the, there's a limit to how

52:03

much they can help, but

52:04

They're basically children too. I

52:05

Know. I mean, SHA

52:06

Literally a child and Bobby is

52:08

basically

52:08

A child just barely , yeah . Just barely

52:10

an adult. Yeah. I guess

52:12

now that I think about it, there are more like

52:15

parallels between Shay's

52:17

parents and them kind of ignoring

52:19

her or ignoring the situation around her.

52:21

Same as Marley's, you know, parents

52:24

as well.

52:25

Yeah.

52:26

I did wanna real quick talk about some of the like

52:28

language in the book. Like there's some really beautiful

52:31

phrasing in here

52:33

and I think it's part of why

52:35

I like Angela Johnson's writing so much that

52:38

she can convey in like a one line

52:41

offhanded thing a whole lot

52:44

about people. There's the part

52:46

about, uh , Jack saying

52:48

he decided on Kansas because of a dream

52:50

I had. I dreamed so much now. Like

52:53

gives you more on Jack than

52:56

a lot of the context anyone

52:58

else puts on him. The

53:00

, the bit where it said people look for

53:02

what they think they need, I guess. Mm-hmm

53:04

. <affirmative> . Um , and then she said about

53:07

Suggy , she wasn't like anybody in her family and

53:09

like everybody in mine , uh

53:12

, I thought was a really interesting, she's

53:15

the black sheep there, but she fits , she

53:17

Fits in perfect perfectly here

53:19

With their family of , you

53:21

know, kind of

53:22

Black conspiracy theory . Yeah . The

53:24

conspiracy theories that she like released

53:26

to um , Marley's dad <laugh> . Yeah . That

53:28

was funny.

53:29

And then there was the part where,

53:32

where Marley, after she's found

53:34

out, she said, I feel bruised and

53:36

motherless. Mm . Which I

53:38

just thought was a really beautiful descriptive

53:41

line. Yeah. And like how unor

53:43

she must have felt to

53:46

find this out because I think again, before we started

53:48

talking on the mics,

53:50

we were talking about, you know,

53:52

does the big lie make everything

53:55

a lie? You know, does the one

53:57

big lie negate everything

53:59

else? And

54:02

I can definitely see how it does. Like

54:04

the people you trusted have been lying

54:07

to your face every day of your life, the

54:10

whole time you've known them . It

54:12

would make you second guess everything.

54:14

Yeah . And like coming to trust those people

54:16

again, you would feel like it's

54:19

not just I , I'm motherless because my

54:22

actual mother's deceased, but the mother

54:24

That I thought I knew

54:25

That I thought I had is

54:27

not my mother and maybe she shouldn't be

54:29

my mother because she didn't love me enough to,

54:32

to be honest.

54:33

Yeah. It's, it's , it's honestly like

54:35

when you really sit back and think about the story in itself,

54:37

it's kind of , it's a sad story. Like

54:40

cuz you know, it's like you thought she knew who you were

54:42

and now it's like, do I know who I am? Do

54:44

I know what I come from? And then it's like she

54:46

has no connection, well not no connection,

54:48

but she'll probably feel like she has no connection

54:50

to this woman who raised or who she thought was her

54:52

mother for at least a little bit.

54:55

Although just some funny things in here. So

54:58

like Bobby taking them

55:00

out to like the Amish folks and all of this

55:02

and like, again, this is just so

55:04

odd to me that these parents are like, yeah,

55:06

whatever. Go drive around with this like teen

55:09

father, boy <laugh> . But like she referred

55:11

to it as Zen driving at one point. I

55:14

was like, Bobby's just really high <laugh>

55:16

What is happening here ?

55:18

I did not make those connections with reading Liz

55:21

, but that absolutely makes sense. <laugh>

55:22

And then, and then Marley's

55:25

like not a very good babysitter either. Yeah.

55:27

When she takes feather to the park, feather

55:29

like dumps sandal on her head. Marley

55:32

forgets about her completely while she's

55:34

reading a book. Another point she

55:37

eats the newspaper and it's like

55:39

this child has eaten like this huge

55:41

amount of newspaper which could like obviously

55:44

choke a toddler. And

55:45

Then she's like, yeah, no , it's just in her , in her mouth. One

55:48

thing that I thought was hilarious was when she's

55:50

like at the park she's reading and she's

55:52

like, oh man, I guess I shouldn't really read when

55:54

I'm watching her anymore cuz she could get up and rob a store.

55:56

Like what? That's your concern that

55:58

this like child is going to rob a store

56:00

while you're

56:01

Reading and she's totally missed. The woman

56:03

that was there that she looked at has like

56:05

gotten up and left completely

56:07

and she like, she doesn't

56:10

put together like obviously someone

56:12

could have walked off with Feather and you would've had no

56:14

clue.

56:14

Right? Like her con her her concern

56:16

is what Feather would walk off and do. Like no, what

56:18

is somebody gonna walk off and do with Feather? Yeah

56:20

.

56:21

<laugh> . No. Yeah. There was so many moments

56:23

like that that I thought that was gonna be

56:25

a plot point. Like something's gonna , yeah something's

56:28

gonna happen and then Bobby's gonna get really mad

56:30

at her because that's his world. What is it? She

56:32

just like zones out really easily and I

56:34

was like, yeah, something's gonna happen too . <laugh>

56:36

. But I guess, yeah this is a

56:38

small town so maybe that's not

56:41

where your mind was supposed to go.

56:44

Each episode we are heading into

56:47

the library and talking to you, well

56:49

not you but people like you

56:51

right here in the stacks today.

56:54

We want to know who you would be

56:56

most excited to receive a letter from

57:00

Bob Miley because

57:03

I think he has a similar mindset.

57:06

I would like to receive a letter from Shakespeare

57:11

because I don't really don't know. I

57:13

just like Shakespeare.

57:14

Um, I would say Maya Angelou cause

57:17

she was just such a

57:19

prolific person. I

57:21

mean it would be awesome to get like a poem

57:23

From her. I really love to receive a

57:25

letter from my grandmother, uh

57:28

, Eliza Perkins

57:30

Wilson. Uh , she was

57:32

an English teacher and uh , a

57:35

great-grandmother. Um, so I

57:37

would just really like to see a letter for her for

57:40

tips on being a great mother and

57:42

a great person.

57:43

Yeah, I'm waiting on a letter um , for

57:45

my sister right now. So that's probably who I would

57:47

most like a letter from him . Just

57:49

yeah, we send each other postcards and notes and

57:52

stuff. We love to find like local arc note

57:54

cards and things like that that we can send.

57:56

Uh, it's not a very well known

57:59

um , Tokyo Babylon by clamp. So

58:01

one of the main characters ended up being an antagonist that

58:03

like murdered one of the characters. I would like

58:05

to know what is going on with him cuz that traumatized

58:08

me on a level you do not understand.

58:11

So say she son , I need a letter

58:13

Alligator

58:13

From Michael Jackson. Cause I wanna go

58:16

to , you know that little castle thing that he had for like

58:18

kids. I really wanted to go there. It was like Wonderland.

58:20

It was called Wonderland. I really wanna go there. Neverland.

58:22

Yeah . Okay, my bad. Yeah, I really, really

58:25

wanna go there. It seems fun.

58:27

Uh , I would like to receive a letter from

58:30

Mojang about their books of Minecraft.

58:33

I would like to receive

58:35

a letter from Moj as well because

58:38

I really wanna know how

58:41

they made the game and what

58:43

like I wanna see the code

58:46

of the game.

58:47

I like to receive a

58:50

letter from the book writer

58:53

from um , babysitter Club cause

58:55

it's a really nice book.

58:57

What's the , is the guy named from nsync?

58:59

Lance Bass? Yeah. Okay. All right

59:01

. Why I

59:04

would wanna receive a letter back from Lance Bass

59:07

because when I was younger I was a huge

59:09

fan of NSYNC and I wrote him a letter

59:12

saying like how much I had a crush on him. So

59:14

I'm like he could have wrote back.

59:18

All right , so y'all, today we are going to do

59:21

a Buzzfeed quiz called what

59:24

City Should You actually Live in? You

59:26

know, know the book being called heaven and

59:28

you know Marley's mom finding that postcard got

59:31

directing them to live in heaven is what

59:33

inspired this. So yeah, let's get

59:35

into it. Ready? Let's

59:37

begin. How do you take

59:40

your coffee? I don't drink coffee.

59:42

Okay. I'm torn between cappuccino,

59:45

extra foam , which I love a good

59:47

cappuccino and black like my

59:49

soul, which is how I tend to drink it.

59:51

<laugh> , I would make my own pot of coffee. I

59:54

guess I'll do the aspirational cappuccino cuz

59:56

that would be my pick if I was at a coffee shop.

59:59

Uh , yeah this is hard for me cuz I

1:00:01

don't know that any of these are the

1:00:04

exact way I normally take

1:00:06

it

1:00:06

When you don't take coffee so you don't have any context.

1:00:09

<laugh>, you don't take coffee, drink coffee. <laugh>.

1:00:14

Um, let's, why couldn't

1:00:16

they just have a regular latte? <laugh> ? Um,

1:00:19

I guess I'll go with local

1:00:22

and organic and I feel like I know what

1:00:24

kind place I'll get.

1:00:26

Darlene's gonna live in Portland.

1:00:28

Exactly. That's exactly what I was

1:00:30

thinking.

1:00:31

What's your jam of

1:00:34

all these songs listed of a little torn between

1:00:36

hips don't live at Shakira Hip

1:00:38

suit and tie by Justin Timber . I'm

1:00:42

gonna go with hips, don't like. Oh

1:00:45

Yeah, these are not my

1:00:47

fas for these options. <laugh>

1:00:49

. Yeah, so

1:00:52

I'm probably also between Hips Don't lie

1:00:54

and Sweet Child of Mine. So

1:00:57

I'll go with Guns and Roses.

1:00:59

It's funny that we're um , hips don't

1:01:01

Lie is on everyone's like I'm torn

1:01:03

between, but yes, I think it'd be either

1:01:05

between Hips Don't Lie or

1:01:07

Royals by Lord. I

1:01:10

feel like I'm betrayed.

1:01:12

Shak , Kira <laugh> .

1:01:14

Just

1:01:15

Words . Don's going to prison so maybe

1:01:17

it's okay to betray her. She

1:01:20

didn't pay her taxes. She's legit

1:01:22

going to prison. <laugh> her

1:01:24

hips don't lie but her accountant does.

1:01:27

<laugh>

1:01:28

<laugh> her accountant.

1:01:29

Which song did you pick?

1:01:31

I went with Royals only

1:01:33

because if it was a different song

1:01:35

for Shakira I probably would've

1:01:37

gone with Shakira.

1:01:39

So the next question is what could you eat forever?

1:01:42

This is a hard question because so

1:01:45

many of my favorites are listed on here.

1:01:47

I know I would eat all of these,

1:01:49

Right? Like I like tacos, I like pizza,

1:01:51

sushi's pretty good. Tacos, burritos,

1:01:53

enchiladas. That sounds bomb but I'm

1:01:57

kind of just a chicken person. I'm gonna say that

1:01:59

only because chicken can be prepared so many different

1:02:01

ways where like it wouldn't

1:02:03

feel like I was constantly eating the same thing even

1:02:06

though I refuse to order chicken when I go out to eat cuz I eat it

1:02:08

so often.

1:02:08

Yeah I think I may go curry

1:02:11

any kind for sort of the same reason as

1:02:13

it gives me a lot of options compared

1:02:15

to like the pizza one.

1:02:17

Mm . I'm gonna go with beans

1:02:19

and rice for life because yeah.

1:02:23

Um, those are like staples in

1:02:25

my culture and in my family . Like

1:02:27

Salvadorians love rice

1:02:29

and beans.

1:02:30

I'll give you that. Pick a

1:02:32

hashtag. If I had to pick one of these

1:02:35

I'd probably say, sorry, I'm not sorry. <laugh>

1:02:37

,

1:02:38

I'm a hundred percent on yellow Used

1:02:40

ironically.

1:02:41

<laugh> . Yeah , <laugh>

1:02:44

.

1:02:45

And I love how they included just yellow

1:02:47

by itself, but those people who

1:02:50

Really like about that life don't

1:02:51

Use it. Ironically. Yeah .

1:02:52

Oh God I didn't notice. Blessed though.

1:02:55

If

1:02:56

It said blessed, ironically that's what I would

1:02:58

pick.

1:02:59

<laugh> .

1:03:00

Oh no, I'll stick with yellow . Ironically

1:03:03

I guess

1:03:04

I think I'll go for the same.

1:03:06

I don't know that I, yeah,

1:03:09

I don't think I can explicitly

1:03:12

say sorry, I'm not sorry cause I feel

1:03:14

like I'm always Sorry.

1:03:15

<laugh> . <laugh>

1:03:19

Pick a Beyonce. Oh

1:03:22

my god . Okay

1:03:25

.

1:03:25

Illuminati. Beyonce. Beyonce

1:03:27

is awesome. <laugh>

1:03:29

I'm going with, I was torn between Destiny's

1:03:32

Child, Beyonce and Illuminati. Beyonce but

1:03:35

Illuminati. Beyonce. Oh

1:03:37

Illuminati .

1:03:38

Beyonce is amazing.

1:03:38

My cheeks hurt from laughing. I'm going with

1:03:40

<laugh> .

1:03:43

Oh man. Um, I'll

1:03:46

go Who run the World Girls Beyonce even

1:03:48

though Illuminati Beyonce. I really want

1:03:51

that but I don't wanna just copy you.

1:03:52

No,

1:03:53

I mean that's how you feel and you know

1:03:55

you gotta say it so it can tell you where you're gonna live.

1:03:57

I do also like 22 days vegan

1:04:00

<laugh> .

1:04:02

I'm so mad that there isn't

1:04:05

a Coachella Beyonce cuz that would be my

1:04:07

obvious choice. I won't go with

1:04:09

But 22 days vegan. That's what she went 22 days

1:04:11

vegan for. She went vegan for Coachella. Okay,

1:04:14

So then that's what , that's my choice then.

1:04:16

<laugh> . I am not part of the beehive. I just happened to

1:04:18

know that. <laugh> . What's

1:04:22

on the top of your bucket list?

1:04:26

Hmm .

1:04:26

Darlene and Coachella is here . <laugh>

1:04:28

.

1:04:30

Well the sad thing is I love Beyonce at

1:04:32

Coachella. I personally would

1:04:35

not want to be in the desert <laugh> .

1:04:37

Um, my answer is relaxing in Bali.

1:04:40

I wanna be like in one of those like swim up

1:04:42

pools, you know , with the in like the elephants.

1:04:44

That's Bali, right? Yeah, yeah . With

1:04:47

the floating breakfast on the little, yeah.

1:04:49

Oh this one's tough. Um, torn

1:04:53

between backpacking Europe and

1:04:55

going on safari. Uh,

1:04:59

I guess I'll do safari just because

1:05:02

I have not been anywhere on a

1:05:04

safari and I've been to parts of Europe and

1:05:06

done some backpacking. So Safari

1:05:09

it is,

1:05:10

I think I'll go with backpacking Europe.

1:05:14

So the next question is pick your poison.

1:05:16

<laugh> . Yes . <laugh> .

1:05:20

Y'all . I don't even drink so , um

1:05:23

, I'm just gonna randomly click on wood . <laugh>

1:05:26

. Mojito sounds cute.

1:05:28

Yeah,

1:05:30

Mojitos are nice .

1:05:31

Mojitos are good. Um, I

1:05:33

don't know. I've been on a whiskey kit lately though.

1:05:36

Um,

1:05:38

Shot . Shot . Saw the

1:05:40

<laugh> . <laugh> .

1:05:46

Uh , I'll go with the whiskey. I guess

1:05:49

I'll go with the mojito.

1:05:51

What do you look for in a ma

1:05:53

<laugh> ? I

1:05:55

Know . Um , <laugh>

1:05:58

. I'm gonna go with sets

1:06:00

of humor though. Some of these other responses

1:06:02

are also pretty hilarious.

1:06:04

Wait, oh you said sense of humor?

1:06:06

Yeah.

1:06:07

See but how is that different from witty?

1:06:09

Trump's

1:06:10

Pretty <laugh> . It's

1:06:12

about how you, you say it <laugh>

1:06:14

Like that in itself is witty.

1:06:17

Well it's like sense of humor is like he

1:06:19

could still be attractive but then witty trump's

1:06:22

wit is like , listen ,

1:06:25

He's really funny. <laugh> .

1:06:28

Oh no. Okay. Um

1:06:31

hmm . I

1:06:33

do like only a smarty getson .

1:06:35

<laugh>. Oh

1:06:40

my god . Um ,

1:06:41

You can go with it .

1:06:42

I'll

1:06:43

Go with

1:06:43

It. I think I'm gonna go with witty. Trump's

1:06:45

pretty

1:06:46

Witty. Trump's pretty, how

1:06:49

do you exercise?

1:06:50

Oh no,

1:06:52

What's

1:06:53

Exercised ? <laugh> ?

1:06:58

Um, okay, well I exercise a

1:07:00

fair amount, but I'm not sure any

1:07:02

of these are quite right. <laugh>

1:07:06

Living my life is exercise enough . I

1:07:08

didn't see that but I

1:07:09

<laugh> I actually kinda like

1:07:12

it . I'm gonna go with that. Yeah , sorry, go

1:07:14

ahead.

1:07:15

Um , physically I don't bloat. It's

1:07:18

A

1:07:18

Gift .

1:07:20

I don't know. Maybe I should go with hiking though

1:07:22

cuz everything I like to do is outdoors. So I

1:07:24

, I'll do hiking that will cover my

1:07:26

cycling and paddling and yeah.

1:07:30

<laugh> .

1:07:30

I hike like twice a year <laugh>

1:07:33

and that's like it. So I think

1:07:35

I should put living my life as exercise

1:07:37

enough.

1:07:38

<laugh> , pick your

1:07:40

ideal last meal. Oh, hungry.

1:07:43

So these all look really good.

1:07:45

I've thought of this question but it's my mom's cooking so

1:07:47

this just feels like really hard. I'm

1:07:49

like it's none of

1:07:50

These, none of these.

1:07:52

None of , yeah, none of these but like of these. But

1:07:54

they're all fine being my favorite.

1:07:56

I'm torn between maybe like I do like

1:07:59

pizza, but like, I don't know if I want it to be my last meal.

1:08:01

I do like sushi, but again, don't know if I want it to be

1:08:03

my last meal. Maybe pad Thai noodles if they're

1:08:05

spicy.

1:08:06

Well and like who's making them?

1:08:08

Like is this like top of the

1:08:10

class food or

1:08:12

is this a prison making it for you

1:08:15

because you're on death row?

1:08:16

Or like why is lobster role an option for

1:08:18

my last meal but not actual lobster? Like,

1:08:20

Like I don't want prison sushi <laugh>

1:08:23

Bagel sandwich <laugh> .

1:08:26

I guess I'll pick sushi.

1:08:28

Hmm . I'm still torn.

1:08:32

I think I'm gonna go with ramen .

1:08:34

Okay. We have answers. What'd you get? Haa

1:08:37

Portland. You are a free spirit but not

1:08:39

in the la way in the, you're probably

1:08:41

more culture than most of your friends' way you're

1:08:43

up to date at all. The latest coffee brewing techniques.

1:08:45

I don't drink coffee. Have a long list of the local

1:08:48

blogs you love to read and can taste the organic goodness

1:08:50

in every bite you eat. Move to Portland already.

1:08:52

You sexy smarty pants <laugh> .

1:08:56

Mine is what's stopping you ho ?

1:08:58

Mine's a total fail. I got London.

1:09:01

It says, let's be honest, you probably look

1:09:04

pretty good in a Burberry trench coat. You

1:09:06

Probably

1:09:06

Would. Oh well thanks. You're the

1:09:08

type of person who loves city life wrong

1:09:11

but without all the hype. Your ideal day

1:09:13

consists of the tape modern, a pleasant

1:09:15

evening at a nice restaurant and a hot cup of tea

1:09:17

before bed.

1:09:19

There's like no

1:09:21

<laugh>. Yeah, I got the same. You

1:09:23

got London. Got London as well. So

1:09:26

Yeah cuz I was surprised. I thought I

1:09:28

would get Portland <laugh> .

1:09:29

I thought so too.

1:09:32

Yeah. Overall ,

1:09:33

But like the non coffee drinker Got it. <laugh>

1:09:35

. Right ? Like

1:09:37

Overall I think we could say that this was, uh

1:09:39

, it was , it was probably one of the most fun quizzes

1:09:42

we've

1:09:42

Done. Yeah .

1:09:43

We we should write our own for this one. Cause I

1:09:46

feel like we can't inflict this on our, on

1:09:48

our , on our listeners. Listeners. We can do

1:09:50

better.

1:09:50

Yes. Maybe we could do a which Maryland town

1:09:53

<laugh> . Yes. Which small town in Maryland do

1:09:55

you need to live in? Stay

1:09:57

Tuned

1:09:58

<laugh> . Each episode we ask whether our

1:10:00

book passes the Bechtel test. The Bechtel

1:10:02

test asks whether our work features two

1:10:04

female characters who talk to each other about something

1:10:07

that doesn't involve men or boys. So

1:10:09

does it pass?

1:10:10

Yes.

1:10:11

Yes . Yeah, definitely. Yeah .

1:10:12

About conversation

1:10:14

For showy .

1:10:14

The , yeah. Well that's it for this episode of

1:10:16

these books made me join us next time when we'll

1:10:19

discuss a book about aesthetician haired girl who drives

1:10:21

a blue roadster . If you think you know which book

1:10:23

we're tackling next, drop us a tweet. We're

1:10:25

at pgc mls on Twitter and

1:10:28

hashtag these books made me. You can also

1:10:30

send us your questions at these books Made [email protected].