0:01

In the busing city centers, where the hum

0:03

of engines often drowns out

0:06

the morning, Birdsong. A

0:08

quiet revolution is taking shape.

0:10

I used to work in the city center of

0:12

Helsinki. Then as a young professional,

0:14

I got myself a car but then

0:17

the reality of actually, driving

0:19

in Helsinki was terrible.

0:21

Think about your daily commute. The

0:23

stop and go traffic. The endless

0:25

search for parking. It's a routine,

0:28

many of us know too well.

0:30

I used to take my car and then

0:32

drive it to my office. I. Realized

0:35

that, Hey, I'm actually sitting in the traffic

0:37

lights constantly. Then trying to figure out

0:39

where to actually park my car. One month,

0:41

I actually, I think I got something like three or four

0:43

parking tickets in two weeks. Hey,

0:45

this doesn't make any sense.

0:47

But what if this routine could be different,

0:49

more efficient? Healthier.

0:53

And even kinder to our

0:55

planet.

0:56

I need to get rid of the car. I started

0:58

cycling. And I realized that, Hey,

1:00

this is actually faster, I can

1:02

get to whatever I want really fast. And actually

1:04

research already states that bicycle is

1:06

usually the fastest way to go around city

1:09

centers. When you have less than five

1:11

miles to cover, it's seriously, it's super

1:13

fast. Not many people actually understand

1:15

it before they, they try it out.

1:17

Today, we're joined by Mikko.

1:20

Um, the founder

1:22

and former CEO of Uh,

1:25

company born out of the streets of Helsinki.

1:29

That boss isn't just about bikes.

1:32

It's about redefining the essence

1:35

of city community.

1:36

The energy that you have, like

1:38

in the morning, if you start your day with

1:41

a half an hour on a bicycle, instead

1:43

of sitting in the traffic, sitting in the car,

1:45

it's completely different. You get to the

1:47

office and you're already like feeling like, yay.

1:50

Hey, I've done like my first exercise of

1:52

the day. Let's bring it on.

1:54

Mika story is a Testament to

1:56

a larger shift happening in the urban centers

1:58

around the world. Cities

2:00

like Copenhagen. Amsterdam.

2:04

And even the snowy Olu in

2:06

Finland. Are embracing and

2:08

you ethos. One

2:10

where bicycles play a central role

2:13

in shaping urban life.

2:14

A lot of it definitely comes from

2:16

urban planning. But it takes

2:18

a long time. To become a real cycling

2:21

city. In addition to Netherlands,

2:23

Denmark is another like country full

2:25

of cyclists. Really started designing

2:28

their cities around the fact that cars

2:30

shouldn't be prioritized.

2:32

So let's gear up, shift our

2:35

perspectives and pedal into

2:37

a future where every revolution brings

2:39

us closer to a world that

2:41

moves differently.

3:20

So I wanted to start this call

3:23

by talking about my day, right?

3:25

My job and it might resemble many

3:27

other folks out there who are

3:29

listening to this call, right?

3:31

I wake up. I get ready. I

3:34

drive out to work because in the U

3:36

S you have the scar culture. You have to get to work,

3:38

which is, five, six miles, and you

3:40

have to use the freeways. You get in your car, you're

3:42

sitting there and then you end

3:44

up at work. And then you're sitting

3:47

at the desk for about eight

3:49

to ten hours straight. In this modern

3:51

tech driven world, our

3:53

lives are so sedentary.

3:56

Like we are sitting at work, at home,

3:59

scrolling on your phone, even in leisure

4:01

time. It's like becoming one of the big

4:03

concerns out there for health and well

4:06

being. So on that context,

4:08

wanted to introduce our

4:10

incredible guest today Miko,

4:13

founder and chief business development officer

4:15

at Worpus. And this is a really unique

4:17

platform that not only addresses

4:20

our sedentary habits, but also

4:23

aims to solve the practical

4:25

aspects of, commuting to work, but

4:27

in a cost effective and

4:29

zero emission manner. So

4:31

what is their secret ingredient, their secret

4:34

sauce? Well, Cycles,

4:36

Miko, it's great to have you on the show.

4:38

Thank you. Thank you so much. We're really trying

4:40

to change some things here. So it's a, it's

4:42

a really good podcast to be. First

4:45

of all, I used to work as a, like a consultant

4:47

before did like a 10 years of management

4:49

consultancy doing market research and

4:51

new products and how to enter markets and whatnot.

4:54

I used to work in the city center of

4:56

Helsinki. And

4:58

then as a young professional, I kind

5:00

of like, you know, thought that, Hey, I get to the working

5:02

life, so I need to, you know, upgrade my

5:04

life. So I got myself a car

5:06

and all that, but

5:09

but then the reality of like, actually

5:11

like driving in Helsinki was terrible.

5:14

I used to take my car and then

5:16

drive it to my office. I. Realized

5:19

that, Hey, I'm actually sitting in the traffic

5:21

lights constantly. Then trying

5:23

to figure out where to actually park my car.

5:25

One, one month, I actually, I think I

5:27

got something like three or four parking tickets

5:29

in, in two weeks. I, I

5:31

came to the conclusion that, Hey, this doesn't

5:33

make any sense. I need to get rid of the car.

5:35

Cause I live in the center. We have really good, like

5:38

public transport and there's like all the other opportunities

5:41

as well available. But yeah,

5:43

so I ditched the car and

5:46

then I started cycling. And I realized

5:48

that, Hey, this is actually faster cause

5:51

I don't need to look sit in the traffic

5:53

lights. I can get to the, like, whatever I want

5:55

really fast. And actually research already

5:58

states that bicycle is usually the fastest

6:00

way to go around like city centers. When

6:02

you have less than five miles to cover,

6:04

it's seriously, it's super fast. Not, not

6:06

many people actually understand it before

6:09

they, they try it out. But then again,

6:11

the, the, the really like the big thing

6:13

was that. The energy that you have,

6:16

like in the morning, if you, if you start

6:18

your day with a half an hour on a cycle

6:21

on, on a bicycle, instead of like sitting

6:23

in the, in the traffic, sitting in the car, it's

6:25

completely different. You know, you, you get

6:28

to the office and you're already like feeling like,

6:30

yay. Hey, I've done like my first exercise

6:32

of the day. Let's bring it on. So

6:35

it's, it's completely different. So

6:38

that was, that was the, one of the big things that

6:40

I thought that, Hey, you know, bicycles are

6:42

fantastic. But at that point, I still

6:44

didn't think that it's going to be like a business

6:46

for me, but I think one of the biggest

6:48

things in my life happened in 2017.

6:51

And that was when my daughter was born, knowing

6:53

that everything that's happening in the world with

6:55

the climate change and, and, and, and whatnot,

6:58

I really started thinking about that, you

7:00

know, this. Little girl is going to ask me

7:03

some tough questions in 20 years that,

7:05

Hey, dad, what did you do during the climate

7:08

crisis? I

7:11

couldn't bear the idea that I wouldn't have

7:13

like a proper, proper, like a answer

7:15

to that. Like it kind of felt like

7:17

that sort of moment when you have to decide that, Hey,

7:19

which side of the history are

7:22

you going to be with the, one of the biggest,

7:24

biggest battles of Alzheimer's. So

7:27

that was actually the moment when I decided that,

7:30

Hey, I'll quit my consulting

7:32

job. and figure out something else where

7:34

I can actually live, like, true to my values.

7:37

And yeah, there

7:39

was so much like good stuff happening with cycling

7:42

already at that point. So I

7:44

started looking into the market and realized that,

7:46

Hey, so a really good, like consumer

7:49

products, but not so much happening

7:51

in the business, the business or like employer

7:54

point of view. So that was really like,

7:56

like how we got started with Vapaus. It's

7:58

really fantastic right now. Every morning that

8:00

I wake up. I can really think that, Hey,

8:02

I'm actually like fulfilling the mission that

8:04

Hawaii, we started the whole company. So I'm really happy

8:07

about that. I'm really excited about that.

8:08

That's awesome. And it's a great story

8:11

for getting started. I want to share

8:13

a little, anecdote on my part,

8:15

why I thought this was such a cool business

8:18

to get into. So I've

8:20

changed my name for this call to be

8:22

the husband of a Dutch woman. And

8:25

I think for some people, this will be quite

8:27

obvious of why that is, but we have audiences

8:30

from around the world. In fact, the biggest are outside

8:32

of North America. So I

8:35

just wanted to share that, the reason why I changed

8:37

that name is because cycling is

8:39

a huge thing for my wife.

8:41

She's grown up with cycling. I visit

8:44

the Netherlands every year, at least twice or three

8:46

times a year. And I don't get

8:48

around there via car. I get

8:50

around via cycle and. Everywhere

8:53

we go, whether it's the park or the mall,

8:55

we all cycle to get there's lanes

8:57

and everything. The infrastructure for cycling is

8:59

insane. I think there's a, there's like 400

9:02

kilometers of cycling lanes there. And

9:04

one really awesome thing I

9:06

did in the last summer is go to the city

9:09

of Utrecht and

9:11

Utrecht is a beautiful city. It's

9:13

a smaller Amsterdam. Has

9:16

a lot of the same stuff. The canals, the beauty,

9:18

the buildings. One of the things that

9:21

they had in Utrecht is the

9:23

biggest bicycle parking

9:26

lot. I don't know if it's on the planet.

9:28

I think it is.

9:28

It is, it is in the planet. Okay. There's a

9:30

slot for about. I think it's

9:33

12, 500 bicycles

9:35

in this parking lot. And dude, it's not a joke.

9:38

Like you come into it. It looks like they really

9:40

thought about people coming in and

9:42

out, there's elevators and places. It's a

9:44

parking garage. It's like proper really huge

9:46

mind boggling for me coming from,

9:49

a very urban area, which

9:51

is, I'm in Jersey city. I come

9:53

to New York every day for work, mind

9:56

boggling for me to see such good

9:58

infrastructure for cycling.

10:00

Because I'm living in a place where I could technically

10:03

cycle to work, to be honest with you, but it

10:05

just is so dangerous to

10:07

do so I guess, trying to put this all together,

10:10

why do you think this works in places

10:12

like here, Europe more, you're saying, you're seeing

10:14

a lot of things. For cycling coming

10:16

up. And I think that's very unique to

10:18

the European market, although in some places in

10:20

America, we're starting to figure it out, but if you see

10:23

somebody with a bike over here, you assume they bike on

10:25

the weekends, you don't assume they use it to go to work.

10:27

You know what I mean? So can you shed

10:29

us a little bit of light on why this works

10:31

for the European market?

10:33

A lot of it definitely comes from

10:35

like just urban planning. Cause

10:37

it's, it's not something that, you know, you can just

10:39

overnight that decide that, Hey, we'll get

10:42

rid of all the cars here and we'll start cycling,

10:44

but it takes a long time. Really to

10:46

become like a real cycling city. In

10:48

addition to Netherlands, Denmark

10:51

is another like country full of cyclists.

10:53

And they've been doing it for like 50

10:55

years, like really started designing

10:57

their cities around the fact that cars

10:59

shouldn't be prioritized. But

11:02

car is one part of the, you know, transportation

11:05

in this, in this city. But we have other

11:07

ways as well. They have basically tried

11:09

to bring bicycles to the same

11:11

level. Maybe in some cases higher

11:13

than the, than the car. But really,

11:16

you know, plan the city from that point of view,

11:18

you go to Copenhagen or you go to Amsterdam,

11:20

you know, the bicycles are really, you

11:22

know, up there, you can see them everywhere.

11:24

And so like a huge part of the commuting

11:26

in, in, in those cities, and it's not

11:29

about the weather. Because in

11:31

Finland, for example, one of the

11:33

biggest cycling cities in Finland

11:36

is Oulu, which is 600

11:38

kilometers north from Helsinki. So

11:40

there's like snow all the time. Well, not

11:43

during the summertime, but anyway, during

11:45

the winter time. So people

11:47

cycle there like throughout the year,

11:50

despite the weather. In the middle of the snow,

11:53

it doesn't matter because the infrastructure

11:55

is good. You have the cycle,

11:57

I'll call them highways, and you have the network.

11:59

They have taken it into consideration that

12:01

you have bike parking and whatnot.

12:03

I read this crazy stat that in Finland,

12:06

almost 50 to 60 percent of the

12:08

working population lives within

12:12

six, seven, eight kilometers

12:14

from their work. So it's they're so

12:16

close that if the infrastructure

12:18

is already there, if the culture

12:21

within the community, within the city

12:23

is already there. Like

12:25

you mentioned, force of habit, everyone's just taking

12:27

a bike and reaching work just

12:30

the same way, which is great

12:32

because it hits like three things, right?

12:35

We mentioned it already, it hits not

12:37

just the cost savings, not just

12:40

the sustainability aspect, but also your

12:42

wealth. There are just so many benefits to it. No

12:44

wonder the solution is working. Can

12:46

you break down what your platform

12:48

offers? Because I know you mentioned employers.

12:51

I know there is a curation for employees

12:53

as well.

12:54

In a nutshell, we provide is basically

12:56

an employee benefit bike. So

12:58

it's a, like a fringe benefit that

13:01

can be provided to your, to your employees

13:03

in a company. So the

13:05

process is quite simple is that we make

13:07

like a framework contract with the, with the employer

13:10

that they decided, Hey, now we want to start

13:12

supporting cycling in our workplace.

13:15

And we want to provide this benefit to our employees.

13:18

We do the framework contract, and then,

13:20

you know, you guys can, for example, go

13:22

to your local bike shop

13:24

or online stores or whatever, and get the

13:26

bicycle of your dreams. And

13:29

then that will be actually invoiced in

13:32

a way that we basically sent the invoice

13:34

to the employer, and

13:36

then they will be reduced from your, from

13:38

your paycheck. So very similar to

13:40

like a company car benefit, but

13:42

it's a bicycle. So it's cheaper, it's

13:45

more sustainable. It's better for your health. Very,

13:47

very simple. But obviously

13:49

the whole network that we are, we're operating

13:51

here is quite complex because

13:54

if you go into the. You know,

13:56

car market, you usually have like

13:58

a few brands that you provide, but

14:00

we can do actually more than 200

14:03

different bicycle brands. We

14:05

have hundreds of partners stores where

14:07

you can get the bicycles that we are offering.

14:10

We have built the software

14:12

and the platform and the product that then facilitates

14:15

this whole network that you can go basically.

14:17

Almost go anywhere and get yourself

14:19

a bicycle through, through the system.

14:22

So anywhere within the market

14:24

that you're currently

14:25

Yeah. Yeah. We are looking into solutions

14:27

where we could actually like expand more trap

14:29

rapidly also, but that's not happening

14:32

right now. It's in the future. It's like so

14:34

much like opportunities in the market right now.

14:37

So that's on the B2B side, Miko.

14:39

So on the B2C, you're

14:41

working with consumers. You're seeing

14:44

all these e bikes. Come into

14:46

the picture where they're a lot more

14:48

expensive. Cost is a big

14:51

factor for you and

14:53

your mission. So I'd love to understand

14:55

how you're tackling that challenge.

14:57

The average price of the bicycle that we are

14:59

currently offering is like 3, 200

15:01

euros.

15:02

Wow. Uh,

15:04

That's a secondhand car.

15:06

that is,

15:07

that's the average. I think the most

15:09

expensive one that I've seen was like 12,

15:11

000 euros. It kind of like

15:13

already like gives you an idea that what's

15:16

happening in the bicycle market is right now is

15:18

that you know, 20 years ago they

15:20

were quite simple things, but

15:22

now with the e bikes, all the technology,

15:24

they're Becoming like really, really

15:26

cool gadgets that are kind of

15:28

like an amazing way. If you, if you tried cycling

15:30

20 years before and you try like

15:32

a brand new e bike right now, you're ready to

15:34

have your mind blown because they

15:36

just feel like fantastic. I,

15:39

I, the first time I tried like

15:41

a real high quality

15:44

e mountain bike, for example. It

15:46

took me, I don't know, like half an hour. I felt like

15:48

a professional mountain bike rider when

15:50

I was like riding through the forest,

15:53

like a 20 miles an hour. That's

15:55

been happening all the time that it's at the actual

15:57

price of the bikes is, is going up,

16:00

not just because of inflation, but also

16:02

just because that the high tech that is actually

16:04

going into the bicycles, but there's

16:06

basically. Two simple mechanics

16:09

or actually three, how we try to tackle

16:12

that first one is that it's

16:14

obvious we provide this sort of like a

16:16

leasing service. So you don't have to come

16:18

up with the whole 3000 euros

16:20

or, or, or more like upfront,

16:23

but it's paid in like, just like monthly

16:25

installments. The second thing

16:27

is there's like a tax incentives happening

16:29

all around Europe. There's like 150

16:32

million employees work in areas

16:34

where there's some sort of like tax incentive in

16:36

place. So actually you end up 20 to

16:39

35 percent less for the bike.

16:41

That's a super important component.

16:44

And the third part is that we wanted to build

16:46

the system from the, and the business through

16:48

this like a circular economy foundation.

16:50

So we have very heavy focus

16:53

also on used bikes. So

16:55

what happens is that we leased out to quite

16:57

a like substantial number of bicycles

16:59

to our customers and then something

17:02

happens. So you decide that you don't want to

17:04

use the bicycle anymore. So you can basically

17:06

just return it to us. I think we have the

17:08

biggest secondhand bicycle

17:10

store in the Nordics currently.

17:13

That is like in house just

17:15

because

17:15

That itself is like a business.

17:18

yeah, so we have those like returning

17:20

bikes, their secondhand bikes, really well kept

17:22

high quality bikes. And

17:24

then we can then again, these, these,

17:27

those again to new users.

17:30

So all this like creates the platform

17:32

where we can actually provide like really high quality

17:35

bikes for like a really reasonable

17:37

price for our customers.

17:38

Do you also own the bikes then?

17:40

Wow. Okay. So it's actually your inventory

17:43

of bikes and you're responsible for kind of

17:45

the maintenance and all that stuff as

17:47

we have a few ways of financing

17:49

the fleet. Some of the bikes are owned by

17:51

like an external leasing partner, but

17:54

we do have a bit of high quality

17:56

bikes on our own balance sheet as well.

17:58

that's pretty cool. Like inventory management

18:01

aside, both Jed and I have some

18:03

experience over there. I'm

18:06

just thinking you could just wake up one day and be

18:08

like, you know what? I'm good with the

18:10

700 euro bike. Let

18:12

me just try out the 12, 000

18:14

euro bike. I mean, it's sitting right there.

18:17

We have, we've ordered extras. Do

18:20

those things cross your mind like

18:22

it would mine? Or is it just me?

18:25

The bicycle that I ride the most,

18:27

I think it's worth like a hundred bucks

18:30

or something like that. It's

18:32

my, you know, go to bicycle. Then

18:34

again, every time I do go like

18:36

walk in the, in the, in the storage room and

18:38

the

18:38

warehouse, Oh, that's,

18:40

that's a really cool one. I need one

18:42

of those. And cause also

18:45

what's happening is that. You know, you've got like

18:47

bicycle for like a very many like different

18:49

situations and needs. You have something

18:51

that is perfect for commuting and then

18:54

maybe like an e bike so you can, you

18:56

know, go to work, get the bit of

18:58

exercise and blood pumping, but

19:00

you know, you don't have to sweat because

19:02

with an e bike you can control how much

19:04

effort you actually put into the commuting. Then

19:08

you have the mountain bikes then you have the

19:10

cargo bikes. Which is actually something

19:12

that I'm really like looking forward to getting

19:14

right now is the Cargo bike

19:17

because I could actually Take my kid for

19:19

a ride and then go to the like the local supermarket

19:21

to get all the groceries and everything

19:23

Let me tell you, my wife, when I told her

19:25

about this was juiced, was

19:27

ecstatic that, there is such a company

19:29

that we're having on the show because

19:32

her and her family, obviously they love.

19:34

They love cycling. And it's just a great way. I

19:36

read this crazy stat that there's only a

19:38

few countries in Europe that

19:41

aren't getting more and more obese. And

19:44

the Netherlands is one of them, which is,

19:46

it's interesting. But then you think about

19:48

what kind of infrastructure they have and how people get to

19:50

work and what people exactly

19:52

do. And it's suddenly becomes obvious. Yeah.

19:55

Everybody commutes to go to work. The kids at

19:57

a very young age start cycling

19:59

to very far away

20:01

high school. Grade school, whatever

20:03

it is, and everybody's so used to

20:05

it. And I used to think to myself, I

20:07

grew up in the Philippines, by the way, cycling

20:10

anywhere would mean I'm sweaty. So

20:12

if I'm cycling anywhere, got to bring a towel.

20:14

Got to, if there's a shower, I'm showering. If

20:17

there's no shower, there's no way you'll get me

20:19

cycling. Cause I grew up near the equator. But

20:21

now all of a sudden, I just think about you

20:24

have prime ministers, like

20:26

getting to work on a bike in the Netherlands,

20:28

like it's a testament to the

20:30

fact that you don't have to be all sweaty. It's a part of the

20:32

culture. Maybe it's something you can control depending

20:35

on what kind of bike you have or how distant

20:37

you are to work. But it

20:39

is now not so far

20:41

from, the future to be able to just

20:43

go by, especially here. It's so cold in New

20:45

York city. I feel like I wouldn't have that concern

20:48

anymore, but it's not obvious because that's not something.

20:50

The employers

20:51

Yeah, and definitely e bikes are like

20:53

a complete game changer in that

20:56

that sense because first of all,

20:58

you know You decide how

21:00

how much i'm going to push it Like I'm

21:03

going to get like a full exercise. So I'm just going to

21:05

like cruise like easily. And

21:07

it, there's like a ton of research on that

21:09

already that e bikes are first of

21:11

all lowering the threshold of actually starting

21:14

cycling, also increasing the

21:16

distances that people cover with

21:18

the bicycles. You know, the

21:20

batteries last for a hundred

21:22

kilometers. So what, 60 miles.

21:25

the parking situation, I'm

21:27

assuming there's a lot of infrastructure in

21:30

the places that you're present. But is that something you're

21:32

also thinking about? What if employers don't

21:34

have places to park the bike?

21:35

Yeah, we call it the conversion rate.

21:37

So how many employees in a specific workplace

21:40

actually take the bicycle through us? And

21:42

we can really see that the ones with the highest

21:44

rates are the ones who have some

21:46

sort of like a cycling plan in

21:48

place. And that usually covers

21:51

things like bicycle parking. It

21:53

also covers things like locker rooms

21:55

and showers to be available as well.

21:58

There might be some sort of like bike

22:00

service. Place in the office and all

22:02

that. And I went to some of the,

22:05

like the gaming and it companies

22:07

here in, here in Helsinki, probably given

22:09

the budget, you know, build your own like cycling

22:11

facilities.

22:12

Interesting. So just on that

22:14

point, Miko, the stats internally,

22:17

you have the data and the insights

22:19

to tell you how this platform

22:22

is performing, how commuters

22:24

are benefiting from this. Can you reveal some

22:26

of that? When a service like

22:28

cycling or commuting to work is made

22:30

more available to employers, how does

22:33

that change their behaviors?

22:34

That's a really good question. And I think one of

22:36

the key things that we really wanted to know

22:39

when we got started with the business cause

22:41

there were some people who were kind of worried that.

22:43

Well, you know, what's going to happen is that the ones

22:46

who already cycle, they're just going to get

22:48

a new bicycle. Cause there's also like

22:50

a saying that the correct number

22:52

of bicycles is N plus one,

22:54

where N is your current number of bicycles.

22:57

In reality, what happened is that almost 90

22:59

percent of our customers are actually

23:01

saying that they have increased their, like

23:04

cycling through, through the Wapos

23:06

service. So that's really

23:08

mind blowing for us that. We can really see

23:11

that we're like creating like a huge, huge

23:13

impact here. Then the second thing is

23:15

that more than half of our customers

23:17

are saying that they also driving their cars

23:19

less.

23:20

Two big divergence, cars,

23:22

less, more cycling.

23:25

So it's, it's, it's really fantastic because

23:27

it really proves the point that the mission

23:29

that we're trying to accomplish

23:31

here is we are in a really

23:33

good track. They're cycling more, they are healthier

23:36

and then they are driving less, which also then

23:38

like reduces the emissions from,

23:41

from the commuting. So

23:44

I'm, I'm, I'm super happy about that. Something to be

23:46

proud of.

23:46

So I guess just to give

23:49

us an idea of the markets that you're in,

23:51

and the markets that you'd want to

23:53

be in,

23:53

Yeah, so we got to like off

23:56

to like really good start in Finland. That's

23:58

still our, basically most of our

24:00

revenues come from here, but there's still

24:02

so much more room to grow in, in

24:04

Finland as well. I think we're just getting started

24:08

in that sense. We're

24:10

focusing on the, on the market entry

24:12

to, to Sweden right now. Sweden

24:15

is a bit bigger market than Finland. It's

24:18

a super interesting market in that sense

24:20

that, well, culturally we are kind

24:22

of like close to each other. Then again,

24:24

we have a different currency. We

24:26

have like different tax rates and

24:28

systems. So it's like really interesting for us

24:31

to make sure that it kind of proves

24:33

that our technology. Scales

24:35

to different market situations really

24:38

well. afTer that there's

24:40

like so many opportunities, for example,

24:43

Austria is a, it's like a interesting

24:45

market. France is another

24:47

one. All countries are looking

24:49

into the same question that how do we

24:51

make our mobility more sustainable in

24:53

the future? How do we make sure that our

24:55

people remain healthy? I

24:57

I'm. I'm a hundred percent sure that we

25:00

will see like new countries entering the

25:02

same sort of model in

25:04

the future as well. For example, Italy,

25:06

Spain, Portugal, Norway,

25:08

so much room to grow all around Europe

25:11

as well. But then again, if we think

25:13

about the challenge, it's not

25:15

the European challenge, but it's a global challenge.

25:17

Like. European cities are also

25:19

quite old, so changing

25:21

the infrastructure is, it takes a long time.

25:24

Fast growing European cities,

25:26

literally the market that you're targeting Sweden,

25:29

I think Stockholm Gothenburg,

25:32

Malmo, like they're all the fastest growing

25:36

European cities. So those are young

25:38

cities, younger cities, and

25:41

there's a lot of population growth out there,

25:43

which is being slated

25:45

for the next 10, 20

25:47

Yeah. Yeah. The, the Swedish cities

25:49

are not so young per se when you

25:51

think about like when they were like originally

25:53

founded, but they are growing

25:55

quite well because of immigration. So

25:58

there's a lot of like younger population there. It,

26:00

yeah, that was actually, it was called the Stockholm

26:02

phenomena at some point here in, here in

26:04

Finland where they came up with

26:06

the realization that. You know, the teenagers

26:09

and you know, young adults in Stockholm

26:11

didn't want to get the driver's license anymore.

26:14

whenever I hear about these kind of

26:16

European anecdotes, I think about the US,

26:19

And in areas in some

26:21

places that this might work, because I always

26:23

think it'd be great to have a solution

26:25

like that across cities. But New

26:27

York, for example, making really

26:29

big efforts in some neighborhoods to have

26:32

that infrastructure to protect us when we're

26:34

actually doing this. It's actually for

26:36

me, at least in my wife, obviously we like

26:38

cycling quite a bit. Her biggest

26:41

concern is safety. Being

26:43

able to bike safely. And, for

26:45

us, like that, it just doesn't look

26:48

as safe as it could be. And the amount of

26:50

accidents out here for biking is,

26:53

it's too high. We hear about it almost every day on the news.

26:55

So it's not great.

26:57

Yeah. With bicycles, the,

26:59

one of the big problems has been that in

27:01

urban planning, it's been either, you know,

27:03

considered like a, something

27:05

a bit like a pedestrian. So you put the

27:07

bicycles where people walk,

27:10

Yeah.

27:10

then you put them like in the middle

27:12

of the cars. So if you

27:15

put the bicycle where the people

27:17

are walking, obviously everyone

27:19

who's walking feel unsafe and

27:21

the one who's cycling doesn't, you know, go

27:23

very fast. And then again, if you put the bike

27:25

in the middle of the cars, cyclist is going

27:27

to, you know, freak out. One of

27:30

the key things that people are really making,

27:32

making right now is that you create

27:34

like a separate You know, parts

27:36

for, for cyclists, because if

27:38

you go fly above like

27:41

larger cities and then you look down

27:43

and start thinking that how much of the city

27:45

space, how much of the urban area is

27:48

actually dedicated just for cars

27:50

right now, that's

27:52

really mind blowing. Well,

27:54

cities is supposed to be for people,

27:57

but then you look at it, like how much is

27:59

actually reserved for cars. That's

28:01

super expensive. Like just think about

28:03

how much of the space is actually reserved for

28:06

cars.

28:07

And we're getting to that point. You're right. SF

28:09

itself has this problem of making entire

28:12

areas, just. For parking lots

28:15

and it's ridiculous. It's parking lots centered

28:17

city. And of course it's America. We've built

28:19

all of the cities around, cars

28:21

and automobiles. And so people are very

28:24

used to that culture. But now when I

28:26

think about the urban planning crisis we're having

28:28

in San Francisco, for example, the

28:31

running out of solutions that I think that they

28:33

got a point towards something like

28:35

cycling, I'll give you an example. I just

28:37

came from Bogota, Colombia

28:39

two weeks ago. And every Sunday

28:43

they have areas where they prevent

28:46

any cars from going a certain

28:48

road, and it's a very long road

28:50

across Bogota. It's

28:53

actually also the same lane

28:55

as the buses and they basically stop

28:57

all activity and encourage everybody to just

28:59

bike everywhere on Sundays. This

29:01

is every Sunday, by the way, in Bogota,

29:04

which is crazy because it seems like they're

29:06

a little bit more ahead on the biking culture

29:09

than we are. But. Just to give you an

29:11

example of another market that's ready for

29:13

something like this, to get into commercialization

29:15

of, this B2B to C type model

29:17

where people are actually thinking of biking

29:19

as a mode of transport. So

29:21

if you're thinking about Latin America, I would

29:24

look at Bogota as one of the places to

29:26

expand to in the future, because people are

29:28

quite used to biking, even if it's a hilly area, similar

29:31

to San Francisco.

29:34

Yeah. Thanks for the tip. I really have to make a note

29:36

on that. I have one of my good friends is

29:39

actually from Bogota, so I have

29:41

to give him a call.

29:42

Awesome. Miko, we want to give you

29:45

the stage to talk about

29:47

your company, your work, give a shout out to

29:49

your team, recent developments

29:52

and, fundraising and so on.

29:54

You probably heard already heard that I'm. Pretty

29:56

excited about our business and

29:58

the, and the mission that we're doing. The

30:01

really great thing about this is that we

30:03

can really, you know, combine the

30:05

positive net, net impact with the,

30:07

and align it with like revenues

30:09

and growth and like doing like really good business,

30:13

like honestly, I think this is really the, like the future

30:15

of business in like very

30:18

much that you need to align something that creates

30:20

like positive net impact and,

30:23

and the more revenues you do. The better

30:25

is the, like the positive net impact. So that's really

30:27

happening with Bob house. And I really

30:29

happy that would like the way that it's actually

30:32

attracting super talent also

30:35

into the company and really see that we have

30:37

like, like mind people who are in the company. I think

30:39

we have like something like eight nationalities

30:41

right now already, because we've been building

30:43

this business to scale globally

30:46

to scale all around Europe and after

30:48

that, definitely to, to, to new

30:50

markets as well. This year

30:52

we got like a really nice recognition

30:54

because we were chosen from

30:57

700 great startups,

30:59

mobility startups to win the European

31:02

Startup Prize for Mobility Gold. This

31:04

year, I want to give like a super big

31:07

thanks to everyone in the team, because it's

31:09

been really amazing to build this

31:11

company together with, with all those talented

31:14

people that we have on board and

31:16

we are like fundraising. So anyone

31:19

interested to invest into

31:21

sustainable mobility, you can reach out

31:23

to me or some of my colleagues or Mikko

31:25

at Vapaus. io is my email.

31:28

So the focus is right now in Finland

31:30

and Sweden, but we are looking. Beyond

31:32

that into like the continental Europe as

31:34

well.

31:34

Thanks a lot, Miko. This was fantastic.

31:37

And you made a point, business can

31:39

be the best change bringer,

31:42

change maker, change creator. So

31:44

I'd love to end on that note. That's

31:46

how we see our podcast

31:49

as well. We are called things have changed for a reason

31:51

because all of these changes are taking place

31:53

and we need to be that change. So thanks

31:55

a lot for coming on.

31:56

Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure.

31:59

Absolute pleasure. And you have really

32:01

admirable goals very difficult ones

32:03

as well. Kudos to you and your team.

32:05

Thank you to the VapAus team for doing what you do

32:07

and yeah, super excited to see you on the global

32:09

stage. As

32:11

we close today's episode of things have changed

32:14

podcast. We'd like to thank Uh,

32:16

for taking us through the evolving

32:18

landscape of the bicycle industry. Did

32:22

you know that globally, the number of trips

32:24

made by bicycle exceeds those

32:26

made by car. It's

32:28

a simple reminder of how widespread

32:31

and impactful cycling has become. This

32:34

conversation sheds light on the profound

32:36

shifts in our transportation choices.

32:39

And there are far reaching implications. Thank

32:42

you for joining us. And until

32:44

next time. Stay curious.

32:48

The information and opinions expressed

32:50

in this episode are for informational

32:53

purposes only. And are not

32:55

intended as financial investment

32:57

or professional advice. Always

33:00

consult with a qualified professional before

33:02

making any decisions based on the concept

33:04

provided. Neither the podcast,

33:07

nor is creators are responsible

33:09

for any actions taken as a result

33:11

of listening to this episode.