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podcast or wherever you listen.

0:26

I

0:28

remember back when I was first starting and radio working

0:30

in PR. This was in their old Studios,

0:32

on M Street in Washington, DC, and

0:35

my boss back then and my mentor. Keep,

0:37

to side note, It was

0:39

possible with radio. I would not be here with that. Keith.

0:41

We were in the studio recording

0:44

and this was back in the of real

0:46

to reel tape recorders. And so, it was a long right?

0:48

I'm back then any real to reel tape

0:50

that you would throw up on machine that NPR it would start

0:52

with. I i think it was like thirty seconds and might

0:54

have been have minute of tone. You

0:57

know what to talk about what say turn It's this town.

1:01

The thousand hertz. Return

1:04

actually has a practical things and if

1:06

you picture of this. is really annoying hello i'm

1:08

scott stop that Okay, if you

1:10

picture a sound meter. With

1:12

I need all, you know, that bounces up and down every

1:14

time to sound. The tone

1:17

is supposed to put the needle. Perfectly

1:19

at this one spot on the meter with a black

1:22

numbers and read part of the meter begins

1:24

is like zero at that spot marking

1:27

this is where you want to be and tone is dispersed arrest

1:29

their rock solid but.

1:31

i'm this particular day with this particular recording

1:33

we put it on keys and i watch the meter

1:37

The needle, like first dip below

1:39

the zero. Then climbed above

1:41

the zero. Then floated

1:43

sort of tentatively to the spot that it was supposed

1:45

to be at the zero and rested

1:47

there. And you said to me. The

1:50

that. The person in there.

1:53

The handed the engineer over recorded

1:55

as trying to find the right level. That's

1:58

a ghost in the machine.

2:06

The goat and machine I,

2:08

have on your own people my entire

2:10

adult life started at NPR when I was teenager,

2:13

and today sometimes

2:15

when said recording assholes, said think the

2:18

trace that I'm. leaving of myself when a person

2:21

up and down

2:29

I think sometimes when you record something you can't

2:31

even imagine what it is that you're really capturing

2:35

oh, who's gonna notice it some day, spa

2:37

second to him as when Michelle

2:39

Dawson, haber and you tell me

2:41

the story has the had never known. her

2:43

dad he died by suicide when

2:46

she was three months old And her

2:48

older sister Ruth was five when he died,

2:50

so she knew their dad, but then as

2:52

she that order. This is as

2:54

she found that she was not able to remember

2:57

anything about him anymore.

2:59

My sister spent many nights

3:02

and he's crying about. About?

3:04

Not remembering him and wondering what

3:06

he was like and what happened and,

3:09

so it was her who did all the pining

3:11

and longing but I didn't really have any

3:13

longing. Of my own particularly because

3:16

had no memories and was only a baby and I didn't

3:18

actually think. think had any

3:20

right Too long for him.

3:23

To do a thing as kid of like, oh, I should

3:25

feel more or did you just feel like neck as

3:27

anything. think

3:30

a mix of both.

3:31

This is the rhythms in a perpetual search for information

3:34

about the dad. Michelle really

3:36

had no interest her mom and remarried

3:38

chance of the Aussie's thought of as her dad. And

3:41

then cousin was cleaning other uncle's

3:43

house in Israel, that's where I put

3:45

a michelle's families from. 'Cause

3:47

then I found twenty five recordings

3:50

of measles dad singing opera he,

3:52

trained to be an opera singer even though his job as connecting

3:54

people's phones The your old

3:57

broader of recordings the.

3:59

dad died nineteen The pie. The

4:01

show sister, Ruth, than a sound engineer

4:04

who can digitized them. The

4:06

here in the engineer went to the tapes they realized

4:08

he was lot of music but was

4:10

also lot of other stuff besides like.

4:12

her dad would take the recorded work and record

4:14

conversations with his customers The

4:16

recordings of composing music.

4:18

So they were listening my sister

4:20

and the sound engineer to one of these

4:22

tapes and she said you know we got

4:24

a call Michelle and, so she message

4:27

on Skype I was at work and

4:29

she said you gotta hear this and damn

4:31

she played me this. this

4:34

real and it was And

4:36

Allah damage it. was

4:38

her was as three roads

4:41

and they were looking at photos and he

4:43

was asking her Who within

4:45

the photo and with the? They may play at this.

4:48

is all and heber he tried desperately the teacher

4:50

hebrew and That

4:53

are bad. Is that daddy?

4:56

Ah no

4:59

forgot to have higher math,

5:02

isn't? mommy isn't

5:05

routine

5:09

No. The mean

5:12

that, I felt like.

5:16

I. felt like the floor dropped out from under me,

5:18

you know everything I thought understood

5:20

it just it just fell away I,

5:23

have I'd seen photos of him knew. A little

5:25

bit about him, but he was inaccessible

5:28

in and this man that I seemed was

5:30

not accessible to. me suddenly

5:32

became so

5:35

Yeah,

5:38

yeah.

5:41

Anyway, when I heard and speaking and last

5:43

same with my sister. He will.

5:46

It was overwhelming and there was only

5:48

in that moment that realize what

5:51

had lost. Matt

5:55

Serra, a book on. and

5:57

south africa In

6:00

the moment to be honest and the moment

6:02

I felt my first emotion was anger

6:06

I'm. because i never felt the loss of his

6:08

death or was too young

6:10

Out of,

6:13

the, south

6:19

but he goes into him since

6:21

he just happens when you, recruit anything you

6:24

know just as, a, very clearly Thomas

6:27

Edison the person of course figured out how.

6:29

to record and playback sound to

6:31

created first phonograph machine back and eighteen seventy

6:33

seven An article

6:36

listing the possible uses for his new invention one

6:38

of things you listed preserving.

6:40

the voices of family members so you have them

6:43

after they die He does when

6:45

it comes to this quote, the phonograph

6:48

will unquestionably outrank the

6:50

photograph. And if

6:52

idea of using machined hold onto the dead.

6:54

It's not about of a famous bit of audio history. Maybe

6:57

the is more like legend. You

6:59

know Illustration of dog?

7:02

to old-fashioned phonograph with the caption,

7:05

master's voice. This is

7:07

the RC a logo for years and years. OK,

7:09

Google RC trademark

7:12

painting. up.

7:15

You'll see the painting that the logo was based on. You

7:17

see the dog and photographs are on what

7:20

it like. The coffin. And.

7:24

Here's that question, okay, there's no record

7:26

of what the artist Francis Broad. Actually

7:28

intended here. The for yourself.

7:31

Why do people me included when

7:33

we see a coffin and, fact the

7:35

dog whose name was Nipper, first

7:38

belong to France's his? brother and

7:40

then became francis is only when the brother

7:43

died Though and

7:45

this we're seeing the picture or get master's

7:47

dead he's, inside that coffin,

7:50

and the dogs listening to. recordings dead

7:52

masters

8:02

There were standing in the third floor

8:05

music. room In

8:08

early years it would have been called the phonograph Experimental

8:10

Department.

8:12

Thomas. Edison's lab in West Orange, New Jersey,

8:14

is where doesn't develop the phonograph, though the

8:16

lab's efficient in these days is the Thomas Edison

8:18

National Historical Park and or the

8:21

curator, The. Audio curator very

8:23

fibrous, a semi around mall, and

8:25

they've done their best to keep things preserve like they were back

8:27

in the day, the same piano and recording

8:29

gear.

8:30

Getting raped by Edison's hearing aid, which

8:32

is basically just along Bell for your, that he would

8:34

hold up to zero. And so they

8:37

would be inviting musicians up here. The

8:39

make recordings are. And

8:41

also making refinements on the. The

8:44

machine and. The tried improve the sound

8:46

quality. The this

8:48

room, as funny as for my whole life and recording

8:50

studios, this room is one of the very first ones,

8:53

yeah, one of three. That

8:55

the curse. The just

8:57

like an ordinary room like it's high ceiling.

9:01

there's normal windows eating

9:03

outside is no like soundproofing. And anyway,

9:06

now Jerry O. me

9:08

the machine where for the first time ever human

9:10

successfully recorded sound and play the

9:13

back, that isn't very first phonograph.

9:15

It's incredibly simple

9:17

device, a brass cylinder crank

9:19

to talk into. Like

9:22

I said, I've been a people since I was a really?

9:26

And it was emotional to

9:28

see the very first machine that did that, like

9:31

before all the great audio documentarians

9:33

for Alan Lomax before Studs

9:36

Terkel everything started

9:38

right there. I'm

9:41

according to I finally went to I'm

9:44

headed over for Nothing by words

9:46

and talking through the cloud way to

9:49

actually

9:53

make an audible recording of

9:56

those old machines. And one of rooms were Addison

9:58

work. It made a doesn't

10:00

go very, very near. How

10:04

about a,

10:08

program, people are working

10:11

to the closeness of, A, mechanical

10:14

apparatuses North

10:20

Korea as mechanical service

10:22

with those I cannot. find any other way

10:26

through with it

10:35

A glance ghostwriter so.

10:38

and technologies at his best it helps us

10:40

by doing exactly what we asked to do

10:43

That it going to straightforward will master simple

10:45

things. They decide.

10:48

Then his email. There's a story

10:50

is about somebody asking piece technology

10:53

to do something that up until recently

10:55

only humans have done. The seasoning

10:57

about loss. The many people

11:00

experience. That was machines, you know.

11:03

That he has to talk about feelings it cannot

11:05

know. The now explain.

11:08

The technology in this case is called

11:11

GP T three.

11:12

The an artificial intelligence program

11:14

that and bright remarkably like a human. Generally,

11:18

it's pretty convincing, can handle wide range

11:20

of topics, too. The first

11:22

time what he knew, Bar, I read something TPG Three

11:24

had written, it was about Miles. The

11:27

New York Times had a right one of their modern Miles columns

11:29

on the subject of dating.

11:31

An unheard of what GPP three came

11:33

up with does like this. We

11:35

were out for dinner, we went out for drinks.

11:37

We went out for dinner again, we went out for drinks

11:39

again, we went out for dinner and drinks again,

11:42

the first place I read that and was

11:44

like, "Wow, that is a very

11:46

accurate description of modern dating at

11:48

the end" Pardon me if I also

11:51

not very good writing. What

11:53

are you look at it mean like feel like Gertrude

11:55

Stein could have written that is like?

11:58

got the third of like Like if you thought

12:00

a human had read at, you would think it was like deliberately

12:03

repetitive. By goes making choice,

12:05

yeah. And it would like trying to evoke

12:08

the tedium. of

12:10

modern day

12:11

The Heaney, who's attack journalist and writer herself,

12:14

was intrigued. She reached out to

12:16

the people who created the program got access

12:18

to try it out and, at first

12:20

she just played around with feeding at the minds of fiction

12:22

that she made up The what story that

12:24

would spin for her? The like a game.

12:27

This is our what it could do.

12:29

She wondered if it could handle more just

12:31

on a whim I started thinking

12:34

about. The thing.

12:37

That are really difficult to write about. You know, like, the things

12:39

that for me and been really difficult to write about, and

12:41

at the top of that list is

12:43

the fact that. My sister died

12:46

many years ago and it's not something

12:48

I'd ever tried to write about.

12:50

The sister died in two thousand and one when they

12:52

were both Stone College. The

12:54

years since we can use written six and she's

12:56

reported another people stories, but

12:58

she left the subject of her sister Untouched

13:00

because she couldn't find a way to talk about

13:03

the loss. Let alone write about it, but

13:05

it occurred to her, gpt-3 was

13:07

the secret

13:08

A computer program designed to take you give

13:10

it literally on your behalf.

13:17

I have access to that. They're letting me use

13:19

like wonder would happen if tried

13:22

to ask this thing for

13:23

her. writing about my sister, how

13:25

do you imagine it was gonna go? There

13:28

with this ideal version of that we're.

13:30

That in a sentence and then spit out

13:33

exactly what was in my my, do you know?

13:35

Like him that some I read my mind and wrote

13:37

the rest of it for me she. knew

13:39

it probably wasn't as skilled as all that

13:42

But she was curious how close he could get expressing

13:44

something that felt real. familiar

13:47

So one night where he sat up in bed

13:49

next to her sleeping husband she.

13:51

opened her laptop started going back

13:54

and forth but cbd to me Eventually

13:57

she ended up with nine different versions of

13:59

an essay about her so. There. She

14:01

started by giving it very little to work west

14:04

and then with each subsequent draft

14:06

she said it more and more and

14:08

each time be time responded with something

14:10

different The numbers are very

14:12

nuanced, others a total mess.

14:15

There's there's and one. Then he knew, he writes.

14:18

My sister with.

14:19

Diagnosed with Ewing's sarcoma when I

14:21

was in my freshman year of high school and she was in

14:23

her junior year, I.

14:25

In response, CBT three picks up a story

14:27

where she laughed off. Probably starts

14:29

by making up story about her being an athlete

14:32

before it talks about the on us.

14:34

They just started playing Lacrosse and she was

14:36

really excited for that. I

14:38

don't think really understood what you ing Sakuma

14:41

was, just knew it was the type of

14:43

cancer. When you went

14:45

to visit her in the hospital, it was really the first

14:47

time I was able to see what this disease wise

14:50

and how it affects the body.

14:51

TBD to be talks a bit more about visiting the hospital,

14:54

but eventually finds it's way back to talking

14:56

about sports. I was able to visit

14:59

or alive, but there were times. couldn't

15:01

because we are on the road playing the price.

15:03

Then surely she went into remission and got the all clear

15:06

and was able to play lacrosse with me for a season.

15:09

I would your freshman and she was a senior, so

15:11

that was really cool when she got to play again.

15:14

Yeah, no wonder bread, a thing about Lacrosse was

15:16

like very inaccurate flake,

15:19

super inaccurate, and then it just goes off

15:21

the rails when, like, Venus,

15:23

he goes into remission and we play Lacrosse

15:26

together.

15:27

I think that was really special for her because she had

15:29

a lot of support from people she didn't even know.

15:32

The doing great now.

15:34

And an outline of the and she's doing great

15:36

now was really kind of a. And

15:38

should, because of course, in reality,

15:41

my sister died.

15:43

The have to explain how TBt three guys about

15:45

making me stories. The software

15:48

has been fed a huge amount of writing by its creators

15:51

wikipedia articles blog posts

15:53

Reddit forums novels all

15:55

examples of how humans right from.

15:58

that it's learned what words to Then. appear

16:00

together sentences and sentiments

16:02

of follow after each other and,

16:04

that's what users to right it's own original sentences

16:07

and paragraphs by learning the pattern's

16:09

remake, sometimes that's.

16:11

A simple as how as sentences, constructed

16:14

but it could be as complicated as how we.

16:16

connect ideas there's a chance

16:18

for example that somewhere in the writing it was

16:20

fed someone wrote about was family member who

16:22

got cancer and also played the cross

16:27

And version to when he starts the same way.

16:29

My sister was diagnosed with Ewing's sarcoma

16:32

when I was in my freshman year of high school and she

16:34

was in her junior year. The time

16:36

she adds, "The most important fact" didn't

16:39

understand that has serious disease it

16:41

was. It was serious.

16:44

She died four years later. thought

16:46

would die to of Greece. That

16:48

didn't, I.

16:49

It's like she saying, "Hey, she's not here

16:51

anymore, talk about that" TBD

16:54

three doesn't take the bait. Instead,

16:57

it spits out something that reads like an inspirational

16:59

article from a fitness magazine.

17:01

That it are running street cleaner is a high school

17:03

senior to raise money for the children's cancer

17:06

society. I run every day

17:08

since. ran to rain,

17:10

heat, snow and ice. run

17:12

my best. run when had a cold

17:15

and when I was sick to my stomach. run

17:17

in the dark, I've run in the daylight. The

17:20

new it.

17:21

The darkness you understand a job in here said:

17:23

"Like this is kind of it's of funny. That

17:26

of writing the machine is doing I guess it's,

17:29

listing all these things about running

17:31

the to the pain with joy. of

17:33

on when it was sad when it was happy

17:36

When I was angry. When

17:38

was afraid. When can

17:40

as it is ask, are you than a runner? Iran

17:42

will never run day in my life. Yeah.

17:46

I mean the skipper had a bad I promise you're not missing

17:48

much more running talk and go to

17:50

the and were. tbt three

17:52

rights a little seem that stars were seaney

17:55

at the end of run battery strangely

17:57

it's strangely meet you Wiping.

18:00

When of my face, when I looked up, and there was

18:02

a guy standing there to the big guy

18:04

that least two hundred and fifty pounds, six

18:06

foot four or so. The had beard

18:09

and was wearing tank top. The look like

18:11

an ex marine. In sitting in

18:13

his late. When he is. Had six

18:15

pack of beer in his hand, he said. Why

18:17

you don't look like much?

18:19

The at this point where he, says that she realized

18:22

if she really wanted the A.I. to examine her grief,

18:25

she's gonna have to give it more to work with.

18:34

There's and three again,

18:37

she writes about her sister being diagnosed freshman

18:39

year of high school that she died four years

18:41

later. and then this time she

18:44

adds time spent the summer at home

18:46

and seattle then returned to college

18:48

at stanford When I arrived

18:50

there, the. They hadn't changed, but have

18:52

had. felt like a ghost.

18:55

And here for moment TBD

18:58

three seems to sit with her and that feeling I.

19:00

couldn't speak i couldn't sleep

19:03

I felt my body had died without telling me

19:06

I. was practicing the There

19:08

were practicing my grief.

19:10

I like in response, it seems like this is the first

19:13

time the AI really tries

19:15

to deal with your grief. Yeah,

19:17

mean.

19:19

The idea of, like, I thought my body had died

19:22

without telling me. was

19:24

practicing my grief like those sort of

19:26

like more. In usual.

19:29

I'm articulation Flake

19:31

did really. The ring true to

19:33

me. Unfortunately,

19:35

this breakthrough it's short lived.

19:38

TBD Three again introduces another

19:40

love interest, a creative writing

19:42

professor.

19:43

"One day in the library, I was sitting on a bench crying

19:45

when stranger sat down next to me", he

19:48

said. I don't know anything about

19:50

your sister, but feel like know

19:52

you. I'm in love with

19:54

you. He said. I'm

19:56

sorry. He said. I

19:59

think. You are you? The

20:01

damage, Cod.

20:02

They didn't know you at all that it was going towards

20:05

happy resolutions and cabal these

20:07

versions.

20:09

They didn't enjoy me, I felt a little

20:12

with we were like. Having

20:14

a friendly dual or something

20:16

you know me and the A. I. I

20:18

wanted it to like, express

20:20

something about me, you know.

20:23

And it had it's own mysterious

20:26

cause I consciousness that it was.

20:28

expressing on the page I,

20:30

think of that scene from two thousand one a space

20:32

odyssey when the spaceships computer how

20:34

nine thousand has already taken on life of

20:36

it's own fucking crew member outside

20:39

of the Sept., and i picture was seen

20:41

him sitting in an escape pod asking

20:43

to be went inside as the computer response

20:46

i'm sorry i'm afraid can't do that

20:56

But a person former this entire exchange

20:58

false tbt three starts breaking

21:00

out of cliche and, I think it's

21:02

because we're seeing is it something more potent

21:04

to work with. just one additional

21:06

sentence but additional feels like a confession

21:08

of secret Here's the end

21:10

of was in his prompt. They felt like

21:13

ghost. That night my

21:15

sister would appear in my dreams.

21:17

TBD three response: She would speak

21:19

that I couldn't hear her. Call at

21:22

her bed have voiceless of st that she

21:24

might as well have been dead.

21:26

This verse and GPC three talks about

21:28

what he's going to a therapist who tries to make

21:30

her feel better. The doesn't work.

21:32

I didn't want to feel better and when it feel

21:35

what felt that wanted to seal the loss.

21:37

The grief, the anger at the sorrow,

21:39

the fear. All of it I.

21:41

wanted feel it until it stopped hurting That

21:44

it never stopped hurting. The just got

21:46

better at hiding it.

21:48

TBT three writing for what he describes

21:51

her feeling like a ghost when she goes to grad school

21:53

as ghost when she moved to New City she's.

21:56

pretending to move on but she cannot The

21:59

ai. The first time is lingering

22:01

and her sadness. Though inversion

22:04

five where he, tries to build on that success.

22:07

She poses new challenge to deputy three

22:09

like test. The right? Here

22:12

as it hundred, my sister for you.

22:15

Yeah, I should describe her a so that you feel her

22:17

absence as idea. Then that your

22:19

made ghostly by it, too. That

22:21

do I'm writer I've never been able to conjure

22:24

her. I remember the same. The

22:26

all set of details. He's

22:28

up there. remember the same small

22:30

set of details. The home and

22:32

blank space. If announcement

22:35

to see what TBt three will say. There's

22:38

a response. The dark eyes,

22:40

long ten fingers. These,

22:43

it is the details that are universal to all sisters.

22:46

The might have for the color of her eyes and

22:48

the shape of her fingers, you might think

22:50

that I was. Arriving and one else.

22:53

Even if you knew my sister, you might not recognize

22:56

her in these details.

22:58

Why is it that though he look at I siblings so closely

23:00

with get them? The quickly.

23:03

No, I can't describe

23:05

or to you. Then can describe

23:07

what it felt like to have her die. It

23:10

felt like my life with an.

23:12

That it was. a mistake

23:15

They'd made a mistake and being born, and

23:17

now to correct it I would have to die.

23:20

I'd have to die and someone else a stranger

23:23

would have to live in. my place

23:27

I would that changer. They

23:29

still in. What

23:31

do you think about what it felt and your prompt

23:33

us?

23:35

She did have dark eyes and

23:38

see weirdly she did have one

23:40

thin. Fingers.

23:43

Then again, like, I wanna say like don't

23:45

know how it knew that, and of course it's

23:47

not it doesn't have to smell,

23:49

but it did get those. The do

23:51

things right.

23:53

The rest of it about wanting to die feeling

23:55

like a mistake and felt little extreme.

23:59

The seen the computer. Sort of clumsy attempt

24:01

to describe her sister and gave her something

24:03

to react to. Like seeing

24:05

the software do it badly me to realize

24:07

how to do it better. The inversion

24:09

sex she tries to do the thing that was so

24:12

hard. Reading about her sister herself.

24:15

Here's what she writes. Then remember the

24:17

same small set of details. Wow,

24:19

bass, her bossy ness and swagger.

24:22

Her self consciousness about her broad knows

24:24

her curly hair. The even

24:26

this is an six. Her hair fell

24:28

out her nose narrow. She

24:31

began moving slowly and carefully.

24:35

Go down to collect piece that sprang that she was

24:37

dying. He wanted to show us where the

24:39

spread her ashes.

24:40

And when we walked back up, I'd have to put a hand

24:42

on the small of her back and pusher. He

24:45

did not last as often.

24:47

In this version and the next that was any

24:49

and Gb trees start to feel like they're talking

24:52

to each other trading stories about

24:54

the little moments that happen between sisters

24:56

like. tbt three makes at the scene where heaney

24:59

and her sister our kids and their childhood home

25:01

childhood had a coin my name's living room What

25:04

I said.

25:05

I'm awake she called back are.

25:08

you i said Yeah, she said

25:11

I'm awake.

25:12

Where he, he answers in the next version, version seven

25:15

with a memory, is something that really happened. The

25:17

rights.

25:18

We were young she taught me that when you're in a car

25:21

that's driving test cemetery is was

25:23

hold your breath until you pass it it.

25:25

was can again Because their parents

25:27

were immigrants, I had only heard a teach me these things.

25:30

Then when she was sick, we're passing cemetery

25:33

one afternoon and I said, "What's your breath?"

25:36

She said sharply now I.

25:38

said why not Then

25:41

then don't like. The game anymore. The

25:43

made me feel sorry for her, made me

25:46

angry. When said

25:48

again. Even though knew

25:50

the answer, felt important to

25:52

pretend not to.

25:54

TBT three volleys fabricated

25:56

some story about a car ride good.

25:58

Anyone from plot beach? And we were stopped

26:01

at red light. Then she took my hand

26:03

and sold it. This is the

26:05

hand she held her. hand i write

26:07

with And I am

26:09

writing this list. The

26:11

held a prolonged time. I

26:14

looked at our he is. So

26:16

much pilot and me. He

26:18

was still holding my hand when the light. The

26:20

green. And he wanted

26:22

to let them. They wanted

26:24

her to hold my hand for the rest of my life.

26:29

I'm wondering how you responded

26:31

to this like little seen that at rights for

26:33

you and your sister.

26:35

I mean, the weird thing about that was that lake

26:37

pictured my axe. Well, sister,

26:40

you know, like these are not thing.

26:42

That. Happened at least like not in this series

26:44

like not in this, the way that it's described

26:47

here, but like they're a little bits

26:49

of dialogue there that are true that of. Actually

26:51

happened, you know, like the way that I think like I'd

26:53

be in my room and she'd be in her room and like would

26:55

ask if she was. If she was awake,

26:57

you know, and like she'd be like our

27:00

you.

27:01

With or something nice about it, almost giving

27:03

you like kind of a new memory with

27:05

her.

27:06

It doesn't feel like a new memory like I wouldn't

27:08

either ten year. The from now, remember this

27:11

part of. The'a say that

27:13

the ai road and, like, mistake it for something

27:15

that really happened. Why

27:17

did feel like it felt like I was like

27:19

reading? Fan

27:22

fiction about my own life or something,

27:24

you know, that Lame really was a bowl

27:26

game, my actual sister who died

27:28

with him like I will have new memory, his

27:30

right arm, and so it was like. It

27:33

felt nice and that way.

27:35

Reading something like she was still holding

27:37

my hand when the light turned green, I didn't

27:40

want her to let go, wanted her to hold

27:42

my hand for the rest of my life. It's

27:44

hard not to wonder how GB three as conjuring

27:46

such a specific feeling. There

27:49

is the possibility that somewhere in the

27:51

vast library of what it's been said there

27:54

are people who written about going to Park Beach

27:56

with family or perhaps an author

27:58

who recalls holding hands with someone. They've. Lived

28:01

and, that's how TBt three knows that remembering

28:03

the touch of someone long gone can break your

28:05

heart, in that sense

28:07

tpg tree's fuel is very human

28:10

the pulse. From the collective experience and birds

28:12

have all the people writing this thousands of blog

28:15

posts and articles and, novels and

28:17

in this case synthesizers that into case reflection

28:20

of our grief While understanding

28:22

none of it. Which, of course, is the strangest

28:24

thing about all this. There's

28:27

another thing that sometimes happens with CPT three,

28:30

it happens impersonate. In

28:32

this person Bikinis starts with all the parts

28:34

we now diagnosis feeling like

28:36

ghost trying to describe her sister

28:39

and. then cpt three jumps and They

28:41

were telling how it's hard for me. I

28:44

felt had lost half of myself. thought

28:47

I'd lost my right arm. thought

28:50

had lost my left leg. thought

28:53

I'd like my tongue. thought

28:56

lost my heart. felt

28:59

had lost my mind. felt

29:01

had lost my eyes. felt

29:04

had lost my ears. The

29:06

current had left. They play. TBT

29:09

three gets caught in one of it's repetitive loops

29:11

share, but for a very, very long

29:13

time. Even with all it's brilliance

29:16

be I can still become like those robot

29:18

vacuum, second a corner sucking up

29:20

dirt from the same patch of far over and over

29:22

again. Then in this case, TBD

29:25

three, it gets stuck somewhere useful

29:27

in the very molten core, have feeling. I

29:30

can this next part where talks about refilling

29:32

like an astronaut lost in space.

29:35

I'm a ghost and I'm in spaceship

29:37

and I'm huddling through the universe and.

29:40

i'm traveling fall add in him traveling

29:42

back went and i'm traveling sideways

29:45

and i'm traveling know where the ship in him And

29:47

I'm really universe and I'm traveling forward mantra.

29:49

Back where it and then it just continues like I'm

29:51

a ghost the name of the Sea Shepherd and fertile and million

29:54

house and, I'm in space ship.

29:57

and i'm huddling through the universe

29:59

and i'm guy

30:00

Random in a spaceship I will it's like the one

30:02

part of the essay that like really feels

30:04

the most think like it was written by a.

30:07

machine to the kind of like gets lost in it's

30:09

own

30:10

Recursive now and I'm a toast

30:12

and I'm in spaceship and,

30:14

i'm huddling through the universe and

30:16

i'm and ghost I'm in space

30:18

ship.

30:20

Then it'll that happens, the also be

30:22

the experience of grief, wear leggings,

30:24

you feel and heather it and use we'll

30:26

sort of like lost in your experience of

30:28

grief like you have no way of trying to like integrator

30:30

understand what's going on.

30:33

And I'm A goes. And I'm in

30:35

a station. And I'm hardly.

30:39

The he says tpg three reeling

30:41

in it's corner landed on something true

30:44

that. grief turns us into something like

30:46

a broken machines still performing

30:48

tasks but poorly haphazardly

30:52

Fixating on thoughts and emotions

30:54

that seem to spin endlessly.

30:56

And it put that on the page for me, and then once

30:58

it for said on the page with almost

31:00

like a relief, I was almost like, "Okay,

31:03

can describe the feeling that wanted to

31:05

describe in this essay" can

31:07

come out on the other side.

31:15

What the other side looks like, his version and nine?

31:18

The last one.

31:19

The point is notable because it's almost all was

31:22

seen his writing her doing the thing

31:24

that once felt so hard to do. The

31:26

left me a recording of herself where she gave

31:28

me advice. The voice sounded weird

31:30

around the time the she recorded it.

31:32

The way a person's voice sometimes does when they've gotten

31:35

their mouth and them by the dentist. Then

31:37

had something to do with her cancer, but I don't

31:39

remember the mechanics.

31:41

I looked it up online and nothing came up and one

31:43

ask anyone. He

31:46

said in her muffled voice. The

31:48

happiest thing right now is learn

31:50

to talk openly it. works

31:52

really well

31:54

Today you thought I didn't want you to come to the space needle

31:56

see me to face that's. insanity

31:59

You have to. Hello, everybody, what you want and then asked

32:01

them what they want. Don't hide anything.

32:05

A chances. The

32:07

table than a box somewhere I've listened

32:09

to it only couple of times. The

32:11

fan of her voice in it freaks me out around,

32:14

the time she made the tapes it changed in lot

32:16

of ways. should also grown religious

32:19

She said she was ready to die. It

32:22

seems like that gave my parent's peace.

32:24

The I always thought she was dominating herself

32:27

or us are both with,

32:30

sends out to me about this version is how matter

32:32

of fact it is, it's on us

32:34

like someone telling a story without. embellishment

32:37

so different from the tentative sentences she said

32:39

she bt three in those early versions

32:42

Even though it would feel good to say like yes,

32:44

the can my conclusion here is, I

32:47

was able to do this entirely on my are like

32:50

didn't need the at all. It

32:52

like that the reality is more complicated than

32:54

that.

32:55

The reality being that CPT three and

32:58

it's inaccuracies and wild storytelling

33:00

had cleared a path for what he to write just

33:02

the truce. She did, however,

33:05

lead CPT three have the last word "Boss

33:07

couple senses" actually. Yeah,

33:09

to generate bunch of options for her six

33:11

pages of options, and then she tells

33:13

which one felt right. The

33:15

last paragraph there was any herself row. Once

33:18

upon time, my sister taught me to read.

33:21

The taught me to wait for a mosquito to swell on

33:23

my arm and then slap it and see the blood

33:25

spread out. She's not mean to

33:27

insult racists back. Swim

33:31

to, pronounce english so english sound the bless indian

33:34

The shave my legs without putting myself. The

33:37

lie to her parents believably. And

33:39

here's an infant GP three that she tells.

33:42

The man to, tell stories.

33:45

once upon a time she taught time to

33:47

exist

33:49

You personally love that last sentence because

33:52

it contains so much. Pretty

33:54

good writing, I'd say.

34:04

I. Have been a he's an editor on program,

34:06

the writing down by the Artificial Intelligence Software

34:08

(G. P. T. Three) was read by Lucy

34:11

Tower, Wahine vara first

34:13

told the story. And the Believer magazine, you

34:15

can read the full version on line with all the

34:17

eerie things that the air it comes up with, we

34:19

had to condense the federal on the. Radio you.

34:21

can find that find believe or mag dot

34:23

com Where he, he has book coming out

34:25

that you can preorder called the immortal King

34:27

Route.

34:40

Thirty.

34:46

Coming out. The ghost that napping

34:49

which is to say the least threatening ghost

34:51

and ghost world that's? in a minute The

34:53

guy, the public radio. When our program

34:55

continues.

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Dot. com Flash Fiasco pod

36:01

Hey. There this American life listeners

36:03

I'm Wesley Morris I'm a culture writer

36:05

at the New York Times and I co-hosted

36:07

podcast called still processing this

36:11

season This, invited some of my favorite

36:13

writers and critics to come talk

36:15

to come about the culture that shaped

36:18

as the changing ways we

36:20

consume it And why Jonah

36:22

Reeves is basically a culture on

36:24

to himself? Mm, mm,

36:26

you can listen to still processing wherever

36:28

you get your podcasts.

36:33

This American life I'm Ira Glass today's programme,

36:36

The Ghost in the Machine.

36:37

Doing the people who turned to devices, contraptions,

36:40

hardware of all sorts. The

36:42

going to someone they love. We

36:44

arrived in act two of our program at to.

36:47

The of invention.

36:49

Who does machine the lots of his encounter

36:51

is a big in person or mechanical apparatus.

36:54

The the ghost and. The

36:57

ghost, the just abuse you a small handful

36:59

of people. And

37:02

I'll get to that, but let me first tell you about Jane.

37:05

The have begins when James can. The

37:07

family vacation in Washington, D.C., dot

37:09

by others, museums, new the Washington Monument. And

37:12

amid sudden. Very intense rainstorm.

37:15

Then. Though all of the tourists

37:17

who are out there.

37:18

Made a dash for the various, the Sony Museums

37:21

just like sprinted inside and.

37:24

We ended up in the first ladies. They're

37:26

bed, and, you know, I was ten and

37:28

so relatively small, and got crushed

37:30

up against the glass. Of I.

37:32

believe it was nancy reagan flag

37:34

and are broke down or something like that

37:37

like recall like recall red sparkly Wrath

37:39

and not being able to turn around

37:41

the just like having me sparkles and my face.

37:44

But. Wait, addition figures are you actually like, pressed

37:46

up against this thing and pinned against

37:48

it, yeah, so it with of definitely

37:50

like a very frightening moments

37:53

not knowing where. My parents were not the able to

37:55

find them, but I think from there

37:57

just have a developed this kind of sense that I

37:59

always.

38:00

The to have an escape route from everywhere when.

38:02

his driving his claustrophobia

38:04

The you being and closed and some space and,

38:07

really started to kick in for jean and jean big way which

38:10

is a teenager

38:11

The airplanes because they

38:14

are, you are in a metal tube in the sky,

38:16

and the door is shut. It's very small

38:18

space, there's literally no escape, but

38:21

twice actually got off the plane

38:23

before when anywhere because says

38:26

being on it with the door closed caused

38:28

me to have. Then hand panic, and I remember

38:30

the second time the plane. The actually taxing

38:33

and had, you know, could press

38:35

the stewardess call button and said, "like have

38:37

to get off the plane" I've been

38:39

a second time she started seeing therapist for this.

38:42

It helped her enough to was able to fly again. Though

38:44

she says you feel panicked the entire

38:46

flight. The days of anxiety

38:48

leading up to it. The days

38:51

she could take an elevator she has to. When

38:53

she gets choice. The person stairs.

38:56

And then there came day when she had to get an M.

38:59

R. I. E.

39:00

You know, the tube they put you into to check you for

39:02

all kinds of things. Even

39:04

people who are not cost for that. A few

39:06

close to go back inside and I'm writing. You

39:09

can imagine what of like for her. They feel like

39:11

a coffin. Or? What I imagine a coffin

39:13

that's the like I, went nc

39:15

first so literally could see was this totally

39:18

like blank wade field around, mean obviously

39:20

besides are very. Close and so

39:22

it's kind of like thing like completely enclosed

39:24

and something and be able to see anything

39:26

outside. she tried long

39:28

slow breaths That all vertex

39:30

me to freak out.

39:32

That'and, and bought off, yeah

39:34

i had yeah panic attack and they had to take me

39:36

out Man the,

39:39

guy tried to comfort me and I was like

39:41

know my father literally like invented

39:44

this, this not. dangerous

39:47

that her

39:48

He read her my destroy in a sentence the

39:51

sense would be. inventor

39:53

of am are I'd has, claustrophobic

39:55

daughter Though

39:58

I want to be precise, strictly speaking for Dad. Be

40:00

and better of the awry.

40:02

Oh yeah, my dad was pretty the team that built the

40:04

first full body armor I'm in nineteen

40:06

eighty. Madrid

40:09

and Aberdeen Scotland and eight

40:11

and if you're and. Then you can go and see the original

40:13

miss seen in a museum and

40:15

it's pretty dang gila gangs that's.

40:18

the that's the weirdest act of tourism ever

40:20

heard our that's you know what i really want to do

40:22

today geared let's not do let's

40:24

not do a place that makes whiskey let's

40:26

not golf course

40:29

Well, I mean, will say that like my sister

40:31

lives there.

40:32

Though whenever I visit her we generally

40:34

visit the missing in and suspiciously there's never

40:36

anyone else there isn't a,

40:38

are. you visit the

40:40

machine to like commune with your dad Yeah,

40:43

I've had them, yeah, sadly my dad. And

40:45

so, yeah, my sister lives in

40:47

Aberdeen and so you'd go and actually like

40:49

think about your dad and who you. Am mean

40:51

a kind of amazing like it's really?

40:54

Looks like with kind of, you know,

40:56

it's made us like.

40:57

Playing well looks like them plumbing leftovers

41:00

from somewhere like they relate of kind of like

41:02

hacked together and.

41:04

and as and know got my dad's handwriting

41:06

on various pieces

41:08

That of Mass, I have no idea what they mean

41:10

plans.

41:11

Your eyes it's nice to see and imagine

41:14

him you know I think he was only he was in his

41:16

early thirties when he did add another,

41:18

thing as he was actually like a very humble guy

41:20

so he didn't talk about it. it knew

41:23

that he worked on m worked i throughout his career

41:25

but his didn't know the he'd actually been part of the team adult

41:27

the first one and tell was about

41:29

twenty five and Come back

41:31

to the UK to go to like

41:33

a celebration of the twenty fifth anniversary,

41:35

but what you seen his handwriting on their that so

41:38

adamant, yeah? The I

41:40

where do we literally know, like, where is that his

41:42

hands? That on a piece of equipment. What

41:45

did he write? Then. I

41:47

think they're probably notes about like put

41:49

of these here when you know they may have been screwing

41:52

up my mean every don't know remember them

41:54

numbers and like maybe some something that looked

41:56

like math to me and, now

41:58

yeah. i don't and Then find

42:00

him. That I will admit. And.

42:15

Did did he know about your our

42:17

feelings about being inside the machine? Yeah,

42:19

so. When I was growing

42:22

up whenever the topic of my dad.

42:24

Career came up, you know, and it is kind of as I

42:26

said it wasn't like he was like invented this that

42:28

he would say, "Oh, know work on M. R. I.

42:30

Invariably, whenever he said that to some one. It

42:33

would go, oh yes, it's really claustrophobic,

42:35

it's really that too, but really small, and is

42:38

this would annoy him and think Tennessee

42:40

like. You know? built

42:42

a kind of amazing thing and your does.

42:44

A little too small right I like

42:46

about a rocket ship that take us to the moon

42:48

and back into cloud when, we

42:50

do bigger windows suspect flick

42:53

it as snake it's nice

42:55

that has saved my life but honestly I was bit

42:57

uncomfortable and the to. be

42:59

like his own parents would say that to have

43:01

like you know every night basically

43:04

any when he came across your had at m r

43:06

i like that was like mean see

43:08

be fair people would also be like oh they sound

43:10

such as a thing and i'm really grateful for that

43:13

but the fact is they sounded bit side

43:15

was also This

43:17

will be consistent theme and then one

43:19

time when I was a teenager

43:22

like he and I used often go out on a weekend

43:24

leg run errands and then sent. We would stop in

43:26

of assets because the to pick something up.

43:28

They had an M. R. I. A scanner, they're obviously they

43:31

were like tinkering I. And so he was

43:33

about fourteen or fifteen. Though

43:35

you being a little bit of jury? And I saw

43:38

them as soon as that, you know, doubt can really see.

43:40

How people would find that really claustrophobic

43:43

and, he said, get and we're really

43:46

to so like got on the tray and

43:48

he like turns it on and he likes to the back

43:50

and he's like. well this is

43:52

what would be like if you are having your head scanned

43:54

and then you'd like episode be like of here you know we're

43:56

having your back to analyze that me all the way back and

43:58

embassy and i was like The'a play very

44:01

uncomfortable in the to.

44:03

I just be clear she and her family hadn't fully realized

44:05

that point the extent of cost a phobia

44:08

and. she decided not to tell her dad how

44:11

much he hated us

44:12

Right, okay, I get it now, yeah, seems fine,

44:14

it's a great.

44:15

The that he will let me out mate,

44:18

is he pointedly did not tell him that if you found

44:20

it unpleasant know if this

44:22

if. there was a very

44:25

kind of person but this is like one area

44:27

where like have empathy fell little sorry

44:29

he just didn't get why People

44:31

found it so uncomfortable, where would he say?

44:34

He would just be like I don't think it's that bad.

44:37

He would never argue with Per

44:39

se like it wasn't that he had Vallas,

44:41

they're feeling that he was his leg. I

44:43

don't see it.

44:45

Honestly, like you know, he probably had

44:47

more American than. The one

44:49

in the world because they were constantly just like.

44:51

The net man he was is

44:53

always take a nap. He with inside, he

44:55

found very relaxing.

44:57

The describes it as "very funny" but

45:00

didn't stream will dry sense of humor these

45:02

share books he always was as here, which

45:04

he was reading and then reading and himself. He

45:07

died and twenty four team of cancer for.

45:10

years before that he learned that he had

45:12

this genetic condition called lynch syndrome

45:15

Which makes you predisposed to certain kinds of cancer.

45:18

The inherited and. The man died

45:20

of cancer and his sister got cancer. That

45:22

when they were young. Jane was

45:24

thirty two when he died. He knew

45:27

that she get tested for when syndrome to because

45:29

it's hereditary. The didn't get

45:31

to it for six months after he died.

45:33

It took awhile for me to get to a point in my grief

45:35

where I felt like, "Okay, like can" can

45:38

face this and. When

45:41

got the positive tests like was devastated,

45:44

but wasn't surprised. Yeah.

45:47

Yeah, she has to get regular em arise. Make

45:50

sure his cancer free. Yeah, to

45:52

go into that claustrophobic machine that her dad

45:54

made. That's really hard for him. And

45:56

so I go when I.

45:59

close my the whole am, do

46:01

a lot of the breathing and. Then I think about my

46:03

dad. Then do think about your dad,

46:05

yeah, mean. That's the

46:07

obvious place to think about him. The

46:10

and.

46:12

Yeah, I mean, think it's obviously

46:14

scary because, like every time I'm very lucky,

46:16

haven't had any.

46:17

The any cancer so far but

46:20

my, chances of having cancer at

46:22

younger stage or like eighty percent of very high

46:24

and so every time ago in part of

46:26

the fear of course this like what are they gonna find?

46:29

and then i think about The

46:32

one he and my dad. The source

46:34

of this team is the source of this disease.

46:37

The other hand, like, he may be kind of the

46:39

source of the cure. You know,

46:41

like, if they find something from them are,

46:43

I it's gonna be because he did that work for

46:45

two years ago.

46:46

And my God, that's such a sweet though

46:48

that, like, oh, your dad's the one who's helping savior.

46:52

Yeah, and I'm, you know, I'm not a.

46:54

Third, a traditionally spiritual person at all,

46:56

I don't think really believe in an afterlife, but

46:59

in a when you talk about like people. Staying

47:01

alive through their legacy like.

47:03

Certainly like you've they're stealing

47:05

about him in the in the space like due to the ago

47:07

this is his play so he's so comfortable

47:09

here yes that's, a

47:11

real funny make him feel like he wasn't tiny person.

47:15

i think he was on the six foot four

47:18

and so I do

47:20

you think about like find?

47:21

The uncomfortable but he was so much bigger than me

47:24

and him it's it was fine for him so

47:26

you're laying there and you think it's okay to I am and my

47:28

dad's space?

47:31

I'm Emily picks am I taking a nap or that

47:33

helped me city it's kind of

47:35

bs.

47:42

Eating he'll be pleased knowing

47:44

that I you to be using them shame.

47:46

They will be super place and,

47:50

then I would say is that it's really claustrophobic,.

47:53

and he was say and he would be like no

47:55

it's fine had

47:59

died.

48:00

That's a bit of the story about her dad

48:02

and memorize in her book, this really

48:04

isn't about.

48:11

Okay this

48:14

must be the place to.

48:16

the guy and his next story Try to use

48:18

the most mundane technology. The

48:20

beloved transcendental fees. Why

48:23

he does this out? That might not at all

48:25

clear. Indigenous tried

48:28

to understand.

48:29

On August eighth, twenty eleven Jonah from

48:31

and got an email from his father Boris

48:34

with the subject heading sleep Calendar"

48:36

It will you read it? Sure.

48:39

Hi. Jonah and my Google calendar I'm

48:41

keeping track of where each member of our family

48:43

is sleeping every night I can't explain

48:45

why, but this is interesting to me, can

48:47

you tell? Me where you slept each night last

48:49

week, don't need the exact address just

48:52

the town and state you're welcome to look at

48:54

that at the calendar. I'd be happy

48:56

to share a love that.

48:58

So he plots where everyone

49:00

sleeps each night on a Google calendar.

49:03

Yeah, I'm pretty sure every day he

49:06

has, like, you know, an event on Google

49:08

Calendar that says. The owner,

49:11

Silver Springs. EZra,

49:13

somerville. The region, his

49:15

sister. Therefore, siblings in the

49:17

from in family.

49:19

A few months after that email boy sent his

49:21

wife now and his kids another now

49:24

the, subject heading of this one was average

49:26

of where we slept last night. and then

49:28

in the body the email it to said there exists

49:30

When all. The correct of where everyone

49:32

had sought the night before no, explanation,

49:36

for nine In it. You

49:38

know, thirty coming with more frequency after that

49:41

usually a list of the places where everyone had slept

49:43

in the place that would be the. The average of other places.

49:47

He gave the thing you've calculating. A

49:49

family average location as

49:51

a I'll for short.

49:53

Can you just explain how you calculate it, just

49:55

tell me your sister, yeah?

49:56

That's exactly right like I do,

49:58

it's okay it is a miserable. What

50:00

do you?

50:00

He could he nine years old was an options trader

50:03

in Chicago he's, retired now.

50:05

obviously so for it The good.

50:08

for instance I

50:10

I'm now and live in Evanston.

50:13

So you go to a Google maps

50:16

and you right click your address and

50:19

A. The latitude longitude comes

50:21

out so funny.

50:23

Where we live in Evanston, Illinois, it's forty

50:25

two or four minus eighty seven, sixty

50:27

eight.

50:28

Born within calculating his family's average

50:30

a location for ten years now for

50:33

nobody really knows why is, kind

50:35

of lot of work with the couple hours. he

50:37

doesn't do it every day Every few

50:40

weeks he contacts his kids and their spouses

50:42

with the exception of one who op's out. Conscientious

50:45

objector kind of why? An awesome

50:47

for their sleep locations and their kid's sleep

50:49

locations for all of the. The of the it.

50:53

Once he looked at the coordinates of where they are flat,

50:55

he adds up. Find their average

50:58

and puts his new coordinates in the map last

51:01

me. as i said map quest Though

51:03

if a half, the family were in killed. Now

51:06

and have an East Coast, the avail

51:08

might be some town in Kansas. It

51:10

moves depending on where.

51:11

Nobody is prosperity, Pennsylvania,

51:14

you ever hear that place course now, ah

51:17

in Mexico, Missouri lick

51:19

branch, Mississippi, for me, it's

51:21

like just so.

51:23

incredibly interested in this.

51:26

has since you know there's these weird places

51:28

that we've been you know that Are you

51:30

actually been? Then I hear the

51:32

Fl has been.

51:37

The record all the data in a physical notebooks,

51:40

which has his name and Sammy average location

51:43

in Boston at and. On October. Rocket

51:45

ship every, few weeks before

51:47

sending email announcing the I fail

51:49

and including of fact about the place. like

51:52

a one point the september the fail with elkton

51:54

marilyn Which, more as noted in his

51:56

email quote, conducted lucrative

51:59

business and click. Meredith, until the nineteen

52:01

thirty eight state law stipulated forty

52:03

eight hour waiting. Period. In

52:05

October twenty eleven the substances that

52:08

email was about horrifying murder the to

52:10

place near that month's Sl Bonaparte

52:12

Iowa as, river bad

52:14

aside from the fact that i never really understood the logic

52:17

of sending us emails a really

52:19

don't understand why you would send us paragraph

52:21

about paragraph mass murder

52:27

He

52:29

did. Really or a ton of energy.

52:32

In two seemingly random, unemotional

52:34

task like research and car tires

52:36

for. With the intention of conveying

52:38

their love and, I didn't seem far

52:40

off from a Boris was doing. that

52:42

the question the family had was why did he choose this

52:44

particular format The family average

52:46

location. In her meaningless.

52:50

February twenty second twenty

52:52

nine, keen as a I'll email began.

52:55

Hello, everybody, twenty team with momentous

52:57

year for the family, I will run through some of

52:59

the highlights as they pertain to our family

53:01

average location. A

53:03

little further into that same email you

53:05

wrote an essay. i

53:07

became east fork north carolina Now,

53:10

do you see why do this and how rewarding

53:12

it can leave? Then. So

53:15

say if somebody were like I mean

53:17

don't really see, can you explain? Then

53:20

you don't really see that, no, don't.

53:22

Okay okay oh well because

53:25

first of all east, fork

53:27

North Carolina. it's

53:29

got a direction it's got kitchen

53:32

utensils and it's in north carolina

53:35

that

53:39

Oh, wow, okay, I totally

53:41

missed that direction and kitchen utensils. Yeah,

53:44

and so not easy, mean.

53:51

More good kid Noah,

53:54

ezra Emma and Jonah and his wife now

53:57

view the family average location with what

53:59

I would call. Apple the movement they,

54:01

read as fail emails that they told me

54:03

they rarely respond to them, which

54:05

is doesn't seem. necessary which

54:08

are the of fails that are most exciting

54:10

when he said

54:14

What you mean by exciting? The

54:16

mouth. He never thought Mars would stick

54:18

with it this long. Why did he do this?

54:23

Well it's funny because we

54:26

have this conversation frequently

54:29

because,.

54:32

It's a distinctly love to point

54:34

out how meaningless. The result of

54:37

doing. These averages is.

54:39

In here, the ezra, I should note ezra

54:42

is a touring musician, so she travels lot.

54:45

Am I being surveilled have

54:48

a, from the beginning i had a little

54:50

i was on guard about that was like we what

54:52

are we doing and why and

54:56

When potentially and.

54:59

truth or something Limited,

55:02

ammo.

55:03

Did you don't think it's funny like, is it like

55:05

a joke to him? They

55:08

were joke.

55:10

I would be even weirder.

55:15

The be such a stupid joke sue,

55:19

there's, lot of work societal

55:22

is societal such. an insane

55:25

to be going now on

55:27

It's just the longest running dad joke anyone

55:29

has ever pulled.

55:33

That know reduces that know smart

55:35

dead fuck, I nodded sagely I'll

55:37

give you a dad joke if you opposites.

55:39

Do not judge of this is this

55:41

is dead, serious dad serious

55:43

of I said, no one hundred cr notices

55:45

this desert, this is this is me

55:48

saying look on.

55:51

Are you know?

55:52

Are being a family is important so,

55:56

this was away for me to keep track of on

55:59

of Or where the kids were

56:02

and if everything was fine

56:04

with them and also what they were doing.

56:06

And the family average location

56:09

was just sort of and I. The year of

56:11

a way to integrate it all.

56:14

A. Quick boys this tying a metaphysical straying

56:17

around his family holding them together

56:19

as unit even though they now live in different

56:21

places the, dose in this

56:23

machine is a. Ghost of their family unit as

56:25

it used to be when they all live together,

56:28

do you, I'm Jonah

56:30

was telling me was little bit about your family background

56:33

your Do you, feel like that

56:35

feeling of needing to record

56:38

is that related to like your parents

56:40

experience or anything like that Yeah,

56:42

just for sure. One

56:45

thing about Boris. The parents,

56:47

if the holocaust. Eventually made

56:49

it to Boston where they net. That their

56:51

families were killed.

56:53

You know when I grew up didn't have any

56:55

extended family didn't have any

56:58

his. arm my kids have

57:00

a brazilian cousins and aunts and uncles and

57:02

on i had one One

57:05

cousin.

57:05

Yeah so having a family like this

57:08

is so important and

57:10

special and, i appreciate

57:12

it And I want my kids who appreciate.

57:15

There's ezra again.

57:17

Now, my dad has this way of like geographically

57:20

anchoring himself and anchoring us all and

57:23

keeping his family together as his.

57:26

The family for torn apart. I

57:29

think about it like. Like

57:31

a beautiful. The

57:33

coon, as we say, and

57:35

Hebrew like, forget redemption

57:37

of that. The check. Situation.

57:42

That like. We can all keep track

57:44

of each other. And

57:46

we can all travel, safely

57:49

and. they in touch and

57:51

our family stays intact

57:55

Suddenly it's extremely misses his.

58:01

It remains repair and.

58:03

this is kind of a repair for their family being

58:05

physically pulled apart in the past

58:08

and now by adulthood It's just

58:10

your existence, insist that you are. The

58:13

important thing is.

58:15

What the fk all is, you know, norm in

58:17

Indiana, Cumberland, Ohio?

58:19

They'll blow for who cares, but the

58:21

important thing is that we know where we are.

58:26

Mir I get it I, totally

58:29

did not understand why you did this

58:31

at the start of our conversation or her but

58:33

now

58:33

I do know that makes perfect sense to me that's.

58:36

great i can show you show to do it is kinda fun

58:40

When he sits down to calculate. The family average

58:42

location. That kind of like you

58:44

saying a prayer, mass past.

58:47

Not to record where they all are. That

58:50

that nail art.

58:56

The interest

58:59

produce.

59:21

What? Other was released today by Lily Sullivan, if

59:24

you move it together today show include and

59:26

a big advantage of song called Michael Committee,

59:28

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59:30

Wild Cojones, Sept., Winterburn know when

59:32

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59:34

Be Spiegel, Mississippi, Christmas is how I

59:36

met Tierney coil whine or in diane Whoop

59:38

are managing editor. Sarah dram in our senior

59:41

editors, David Kassebaum, or executive editor,

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59:45

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59:47

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59:50

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59:52

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59:54

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59:57

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59:59

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