0:00

789 for this American life comes from ADP.

0:03

The business world looks nothing like it did

0:05

yesterday, while it's more unpredictable.

0:07

Its possibilities are endless. Knowing

0:10

how to turn unpredictability into an

0:12

advantage is where ADP comes in.

0:14

ADP uses data driven insights

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to design HR solutions to help you and

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your business work better, smarter, more efficiently.

0:21

So you can think beyond today and have

0:24

more success tomorrow.

0:25

ADP, always designing

0:27

for HR talent, time, benefits, payroll,

0:30

and people. A quick

0:32

warning. There are curse words that are unbeeped

0:34

in today's episode of the show. If you

0:36

prefer a beeped

0:37

version, you can find that at our website,

0:39

this americanlife dot org.

0:42

From WBZ Chicago, it's 789 American

0:45

Life, not my world class.

0:47

Why aren't you more mad? I

0:49

think I'm just too tired to be mad. It's like when

0:52

I think of it, I get exhausted, I

0:54

get a little desperate, I can

0:55

feel, like, a little bit, like, I feel a little

0:58

bit, like, underwater. This

1:00

is my coworker Sean Nicole. Yeah. This is producer

1:02

here in the radio show. Ed, the thing

1:04

that brought him to this state 789 a

1:07

bed. Tonight when I go to bed. A bed he does not

1:09

have. No. He ordered it back in

1:11

September. I get up. When to move to a new

1:12

789. And this is where I've been

1:15

sleeping 789 I moved in

1:18

on the floor,

1:19

on my old mattress 789

1:22

my new

1:24

bed. Just 789 be clear, the

1:26

mattress for the new bed arrived right away

1:28

after he ordered it. It's rolled up like a burrito

1:30

near the window. The issue is

1:32

the bed frame and the headboard. There's

1:34

still a wall, undelivered, 789

1:37

four months after ordering. And

1:39

I'm talking to Sean about this because today's program

1:42

is about all kinds of different sorts of runarounds

1:44

and he is in the middle of a sort of classic one.

1:47

One lots of us have experienced. For

1:49

the record, the bed that he ordered is a queen sized

1:51

bed from the Casper online 789. As

1:54

a podcast producer, he told me he felt like a

1:56

living cache, ordering a product

1:58

that is advertised on so many 789,

2:01

but he says he really liked the bed.

2:03

It's got an angled cushioned headboard

2:06

789 lean against when you're reading at night.

2:09

Sean is somebody who's never really fixed up a

2:11

place with nice furniture and he was finally

2:13

getting around to it, and he was excited. And

2:16

at first, the delay was a completely excusable

2:18

kind of thing 789 was back ordered,

2:21

which, you know, happens with furniture. I'm

2:23

supposed to be ready for delivery on November 789.

2:26

But the eighteenth of November comes,

2:29

789 of November goes, it does not show

2:31

up. Shawn reaches out to Casper.

2:34

They said you'll hear from our delivery partner.

2:37

Okay. Get a text from the delivery 789. I

2:39

was coming I'd never heard of called RXO.

2:41

RXO texts me

2:44

and says, hi, we have

2:46

scheduled your delivery for

2:48

September twenty six. And

2:51

I'm like, it hasn't

2:53

been September twenty six for, like, two

2:55

months. Sean calls RxO and

2:57

reschedges the delivery this time for a date

2:59

789 in the future, not the past. But

3:02

this is the first of what will be many

3:04

texts and communications from RXO 789

3:06

make no sense at all. The new

3:08

delivery date is in three weeks. The

3:10

day finally arrives. I get

3:13

up, strip the mattress, pull

3:15

it off of the floor, set it up

3:17

so it make it easier for them to take away.

3:20

So it's leaning against which wall. He was leaning against

3:22

the wall in the office, 789 my books. Mhmm.

3:24

Wait for them to come. 789 gets

3:27

taxed telling him his bed will not be delivered.

3:29

He needs reschedule. He 789 to

3:31

find out why. And they said, yeah. No. No.

3:33

We can't bring it to you because you asked

3:36

for the service

3:38

to take away your old mattress. Well,

3:41

couldn't this truck still drop off

3:43

your thing? Even if they weren't gonna

3:45

haul away the old mattress? Right.

3:47

Yeah. Good question. Like, why

3:49

does not being able to take

3:51

something away? Prevent

3:53

you from bringing me something. The

3:59

deliveries were scheduled for Monday, a few days

4:01

later. When it comes, the

4:03

text saying it's gonna be

4:05

789, no explanation why.

4:07

An hour and a half after that, the text again

4:10

saying that now it won't be delivered Tuesday.

4:12

And so I call them and I'm

4:15

like, what's the deal? And they go, oh, there's

4:17

been a truck breakdown. And I

4:19

was like, oh, So

4:21

when can it come

4:24

now and they

4:26

go, oh, hang on a second and they look at their

4:28

notes or whatever and they go, oh, no no you are good for

4:30

tomorrow. And I was like, I am good for tomorrow. They're like,

4:32

yeah, because it's already been added to the 789. And

4:35

I'm like, is there a

4:37

truck break? Like, what you know, like, was

4:39

that just something you said? Like And

4:43

I still don't know the answer to that.

4:45

I have to say this is one of the most annoying

4:47

things about this kind of runaround. At

4:50

every stage, you get answers

4:52

that leave you sort of squinting and scratching

4:54

your head trying to understand

4:56

them. Every explanation is a non

4:59

explanation. So then Tuesday,

5:01

I get up again. I strip

5:03

the bed. I pick the mattress up above

5:05

the floor. I lean it up against the wall.

5:08

And then I get a text

5:10

saying, your delivery is

5:12

confirmed for thirst. Stay. This

5:21

time any cause, there's no explanation at

5:23

789, just an apology. Thursday

5:26

comes. And on Thursday,

5:28

I get 789. I do not

5:30

strip the bed, nor do

5:32

I pull the mattress off the floor

5:36

because beginning to learn Of

5:38

course, it doesn't come.

5:40

And I call them and I'm

5:42

like, what's going on? And

5:44

then they go, oh, there's a hard hold.

5:47

On this order.

5:50

And I'm like, why is there a hard hold? And

5:52

they go, oh, there was a duplicate

5:54

on the order docket. Two

5:57

bed frames and headboards here that

5:59

are scheduled for shipment for the same

6:01

person. They thought it might be a mistake

6:03

and they didn't wanna ship till they knew.

6:05

Sean Windows, 789 didn't you just contact him and

6:08

ask if he ordered two

6:09

beds? And also,

6:11

has this been on his paperwork from the start?

6:14

Then that's always been the case.

6:16

Right? Like, why am I only finding

6:18

out about this now? And that means, like, it was never

6:20

gonna come or something. And

6:22

and are you wondering, is this even true

6:24

that there's a problem in the paperwork? Well, no

6:26

because it seems so specific. Like,

6:30

Why would you make up something like 789?

6:32

Unless it's just like, I don't know. I

6:35

don't know. I guess the answer is I don't know.

6:37

And it's 789, then

6:39

after thinking they had to deliver two beds

6:41

to Sean, they admitted they

6:43

didn't have any. They did a

6:45

week called doc search, finally showed

6:47

up with a bed, but it

6:49

was the wrong size. Which would

6:51

Sean back at square one. Early

6:54

on, Sean started to keep a record of all

6:56

these interactions with RXO and Casper.

6:58

And at this

6:58

point, it is eighteen pages

7:01

long. If this document were a

7:03

poem, what would it be

7:03

called? 789 would be called.

7:06

John's a published poet, by the way. How

7:10

do you sleep? We'll

7:14

reach out to 789 and Casper, the big company

7:16

to find out how they do sleep at night.

7:18

Given the treatment of Sean Cole. The answer

7:21

was refreshingly honest. Casper's

7:23

VP of Operations emailed admitting 789, the

7:25

last few years because global supply chains have been

7:27

so

7:27

crazy. Kasper has experienced, quote,

7:30

a myriad of disruptions.

7:32

He did say that only a tiny portion of the shipping

7:34

is done with RX and they're trying to

7:36

work with RXO to improve things.

7:39

Ninety percent of their customers, he said, rate

7:41

their experience with RXO favorably, meaning

7:44

789 percent do

7:45

not. Sean is one in

7:47

789. Pretty bad odds if he asked me.

7:50

My take is that

7:51

they never actually had a bed for him.

7:54

Sean feels like he's coming this far,

7:56

doesn't wanna start over with a different

7:58

company. I run around,

8:00

it's different people, different ways. I'm

8:02

the perfect person to give the Runaround

8:04

789 because I am

8:09

pretty naturally indisposed

8:12

to flipping out,

8:15

you know, demanding a

8:17

result. You're saying you wouldn't do these things.

8:19

I would not do these things. I'm I'm the

8:21

person who you wanna give the Runaround 789

8:24

because, like, I'm not gonna, like, reach

8:26

through the phone and try to strangle you. Like

8:28

like even when

8:31

I freak 789, I'm polite about

8:32

it. 789. Sean

8:35

get 789 little worked up talking to me about all this, but

8:37

the harshest he ever got with Casper or

8:39

RXO is a strongly worded email. It

8:41

sounds like it was written by an English gentleman in the

8:43

year eighteen twenty. Quote, this

8:45

is beyond unacceptable. 789 let

8:48

me know what Casper intends to do to

8:50

rectify this situation, yours

8:52

sincerely. I

8:54

run around where you put in that weird

8:56

information limbo where you can't tell what the

8:58

truth is, where you don't get what you want in

9:00

a contest of wills with some other

9:03

person or entity and it goes on and on and on. It

9:05

just doesn't 789. It tests

9:07

you. It shows you who you are.

9:09

Today 789 our program, there's some very

9:11

different kinds of Runaround. And

9:13

some very different reactions to them. The

9:15

people who are being pushed to their very limits,

9:17

stay with us.

9:27

Aquon, I like to show forty

9:29

eight hours. Except a lot more hours.

9:31

So the first story is about

9:33

somebody who, like Sean, has been

9:35

given the Runaround. 789 Runaround

9:38

is about something much more consequential to

9:40

her life than a bed frame.

9:42

And the woman that's happening to Over

9:44

and over, she has to decide whether to cut her losses

9:46

and walk away or stay with

9:49

it and fight her way

9:49

through. Report 789 Brenda

9:52

Smith. I first wrote about this for the news site, the Baltimore

9:54

789, explained.

9:55

Even before this whole thing began,

9:58

Renee's life involved a lot of

10:00

running around. She's busy.

10:02

Got three kids, workstays, and

10:04

nights as a home health aid. When

10:06

money's tight, she also drives for

10:08

DoorDash and Instacart. She

10:10

spends a lot of time in her car, like a lot

10:12

of busy people. But unlike

10:14

a lot of busy people, 789 told

10:17

me, my producer, Chris, she

10:19

usually chooses the slowest possible

10:21

route to her next destination

10:23

because I'm scared of beltways.

10:25

I mean, I don't do

10:27

beltways. Does

10:27

take long way everywhere? What do

10:29

you 789?

10:29

You're scared of belt light? 789 scared of all the

10:32

789. Like, so many different lanes with

10:34

cars. My I have road bed 789. My

10:36

nerves are bad. So I think

10:38

it's 789, like, so many different

10:40

lanes with just so many cars flying past

10:42

you. So I 789 prefer not to

10:44

I'd rather go on the side roads.

10:47

Is there, like, a Renee speed limit,

10:49

like, above this? Yeah. I don't

10:50

like to go any past, like, forty five.

10:53

Renee's commitment to the local roads

10:55

just out side of Baltimore where she

10:57

lives, will sometimes add

10:59

twenty, thirty, even forty minutes to

11:01

her trips. So that's

11:03

Renee. The story I wanna tell

11:05

you started last spring when something

11:07

went wrong with Renee's snap benefits.

11:09

Her food stamps. Her

11:11

monthly money stopped appearing on her benefits

11:13

card. Vixing

11:15

this took five or six trips to the social

11:17

services office, filling out tons

11:19

of paperwork and three months of

11:21

waiting. This isn't unusual

11:23

for her. Or anyone on benefits. Finally,

11:26

a kind woman at the front desk at Social

11:28

Services looked into her case and found

11:30

some glitch in the system. She

11:32

fixed it for Renee. And the next morning,

11:35

everything was made right. All three

11:37

months of misbenefits showed up

11:39

at once. She now had almost three thousand

11:41

dollars on her card, the highest

11:43

she'd ever had when they felt a wave

11:45

of relief. But 789 couple

11:47

weeks later, Renee went online to

11:49

check the balance on her card. And

11:52

everything was going to accept sixty six

11:54

dollars. That's all I can

11:56

really remember. I thought it was a

11:58

mistake. I thought, well, let me get off the

12:00

app and I cleared it out and tried it

12:02

again. Same thing. She called

12:04

the number on the back of the car to make sure

12:06

and found out again, sixty

12:08

six dollars. First, she

12:10

was just confused. Then she noticed

12:13

large transactions at 789, she's never

12:15

visited. 789 at Washington DC

12:17

where she never goes, because

12:19

belt base. She realized

12:22

someone had somehow stolen her snap money.

12:24

The thousands of dollars she'd just

12:26

gotten back on her card was gone

12:28

in one afternoon. This

12:30

is where Runaround began. I've

12:37

been reporting on social services like

12:39

Snap in and I've seen Snap fraud

12:41

happening a lot. Benefits

12:43

left skyrocketed from ninety thousand

12:45

dollars in twenty twenty one to over a

12:47

million and a half dollars in twenty twenty

12:49

two. Snapfrog is actually up across

12:51

the US.

12:52

The night had

12:53

happened to Renee, She couldn't

12:54

stop crying and couldn't

12:57

sleep. This is money she used to buy food

12:59

for her kids. Without

13:01

it, she'd have to pick up extra 789, get

13:03

behind on rent. So the

13:05

next morning, she marched into the same

13:07

government building. She'd been in so many times

13:09

before to fix the problem

13:11

in person. Maybe she'd get the

13:13

nice lady

13:14

again. I went down to the social services

13:17

and the same lady that fixed the

13:19

food stamps was like,

13:21

yeah, I remember I just fixed them for you

13:23

and all the money that, you know, was gonna come

13:25

on your card. She was

13:27

almost in tears. She said, I feel so

13:29

bad for you because it's so much.

13:31

She said, I've never seen that much

13:33

be taken at once. She

13:35

said, but I can tell you now they're not

13:38

gonna they're not gonna refund

13:39

anything. The woman told 789 because

13:42

the stolen snap money is actually

13:44

federal money. Marilyn couldn't pay her

13:45

back.

13:46

It was a statewide policy. She said there

13:48

was nothing we she said, I really wish we could help

13:50

you.

13:51

And then, of course, everybody in the whole

13:53

because, you know, you're sitting there with all these people.

13:55

And the window, everybody can hear you talk because you're

13:57

only walking a couple steps to the window. And,

13:59

you know, you got the whole room looking at you at one

14:02

time. So I felt

14:04

so stupid. I'm crying. And

14:08

I'm only crying in front of people. I

14:10

789 to hold my emotions back and it was

14:12

hard That day, yeah, I just couldn't hold it back.

14:16

I

14:19

first met Renee on this Facebook group

14:21

for parents in Maryland to use benefits

14:23

like snap. There were lots

14:25

of parents, mostly moms,

14:27

writing and saying they had had their benefits

14:29

789. And there was Renee

14:32

789 all the time about what had happened to

14:34

her and really trying to help

14:36

everyone else. Everyone

14:38

please read this. She wrote.

14:40

If we all come together and report

14:42

this to the police and social services,

14:44

then something may be done.

14:47

There were lots of moms who had tried to get social services

14:50

to refund

14:50

them. No luck. They'd

14:53

also found reports with their local

14:55

police.

14:55

Nothing. I

14:57

talked to dozens of them, and

14:59

Renee was in a category of her own. She

15:01

did far more than anyone else.

15:03

When I

15:04

got her on the phone back then, she'd

15:06

been playing phone and email tag

15:08

for days, bouncing between every

15:10

authority figure she could find. The

15:12

office of the inspector general for Maryland

15:15

social services. The USDA

15:17

and DC, which fun stuff.

15:19

Even the Maryland legislature,

15:21

where she called delegate after

15:22

delegate, but it all got her

15:25

nowhere. I

15:25

just spoke to delegate

15:28

Robin Brammer. I think his name 789 yesterday,

15:30

and he told me

15:31

that, unfortunately, no matter what

15:33

I do, he said they're not gonna

15:35

refund the money. The police

15:37

weren't any help either. The cop

15:39

assigned to her case, officer

15:41

Timothy

15:41

Wallace, would sometimes take days

15:44

to answer her texts and

15:46

didn't seem to be doing anything. He

15:47

was a rookie who hadn't graduated

15:50

the academy yet. So,

15:52

we're 789 something I haven't seen anyone

15:54

else do. She decided to

15:56

investigate her own case.

15:59

She was going to find the people who took her

16:01

snack money. One

16:07

thing about Renee, she loves True

16:09

Crime shows, like forty eight hours.

16:12

So she knew how important the first couple

16:14

days are in any 789. She

16:17

was worried time was slipping away, so she

16:20

went to the fact she had. The

16:22

Snap Benefits app had given her

16:24

the details for every fraudulent 789. All

16:26

seven of them. They included a

16:28

dollar amount, a date, and the name of each

16:30

store. There had been big purchases,

16:33

some over five hundred dollars Renee

16:36

thought that maybe those stores could

16:38

rewind their security footage to the times of

16:40

those transactions and maybe

16:42

identify the

16:43

theme. 789 texted all of this to

16:45

officer Valice. 789 said,

16:47

I looked at my food stamps app on my phone

16:49

and wanted to let you know I found all the store

16:51

numbers that will use my SIM

16:53

789, I sent him the picture of 789 that.

16:56

Then he said, okay. Thank you.

16:58

And then after She

16:58

suggested the police contact the stores,

17:01

but nothing happened. So

17:03

I called the

17:03

store myself. Most of the

17:06

stores wouldn't help her. They don't show

17:08

surveillance footage to 789. Only

17:10

please. 789 one manager at an

17:13

international market agreed to

17:15

check. And they pulled the video of the people

17:17

that 789 it. So

17:20

she sent me 12345

17:24

pictures and one four second

17:26

video of them just

17:28

driving

17:28

away. And all of a sudden, Renee was looking

17:30

at the faces of the people who stole

17:32

from her. Security footage from

17:34

a Sunday in early 789.

17:37

It looked to be during the day was bright

17:40

out. The photo was grainy, but she

17:42

could make out a middle aged man

17:44

exiting the store. Then

17:46

in a different photo, a woman with

17:48

a low bun and a blue striped skirt with

17:50

a shopping

17:50

cart. And you see in the back of the cart, the

17:53

people that stole it, 789

17:55

cases and cases of baby

17:56

formula. Oh, it is like groceries.

17:59

These these

18:00

people bought cases of

18:02

full baby formula 789 on the picture.

18:05

Twelve hundred dollars a baby

18:07

formula, which seems weird, but

18:09

it makes sense if you think it. Formula

18:11

is a very efficient way to convert

18:13

food stamps into cash. It's

18:15

in every grocery store It

18:18

doesn't go bad quickly like

18:20

meat. It's dense so you can pack a lot of it

18:22

into your car. And

18:24

in the summer of twenty twenty two,

18:26

there was a shortage of it. Renee had

18:29

found the suspects and

18:31

the getaway car. The

18:33

footage showed them driving off in a Toyota

18:36

minivan. 789 she still had no

18:38

idea how to find out their names, their

18:40

identities. And even after

18:42

squinting every which way at the

18:44

photos of a license

18:44

plate, she still couldn't make out what it was.

18:46

If

18:46

you look

18:47

at it from a certain way, you could see

18:49

a little better, but then once you really start to

18:51

it it's confusing. 789 hard to

18:53

789 I

18:54

just 789 took that and sent that to

18:56

the officer. When Renee texted

18:59

all this to officer Wallace didn't

19:01

say much, just quote,

19:03

I updated the report with the information

19:05

you'd given me. He also

19:07

said he'd referred her case 789 the

19:09

department's investigative and cybercrime units. Then

19:12

he stopped responding

19:14

for weeks. And now he's not answering

19:16

any of my texts asking, you

19:18

know, if he has found anything

19:20

else out,

19:21

nothing. He has not responded to you since

19:24

August thirteenth. Nothing.

19:26

No

19:26

answer. I'm just like I

19:28

just feel

19:29

like people don't don't

19:30

really care

19:31

because it's not someone 789 quotes to them that has

19:33

needed food. Yeah.

19:35

And this is

19:35

not, like, a hundred dollars. I wouldn't even probably even call if

19:37

it was something small. This is under thirty

19:39

thousand dollars.

19:40

And This is not

19:42

for me. This is for my children who've taken from

19:44

my kids.

19:45

Then in late August,

19:48

Renee received a letter from social

19:50

services. 789 says they looked into her

19:52

case and quote, did not find

19:54

a system error or that the card was

19:56

used fraudulently. There would

19:58

be no refund. Other moms

20:01

on

20:01

the Facebook group had gotten the same 789, and

20:03

a lot of them had given up at

20:05

that point. But

20:06

Renee reads the fine print.

20:09

She noticed that the bottom of the letter

20:11

offered her the chance to appeal this finding

20:13

before a judge with 789.

20:16

I think it's called, like, some kind of their hearing or

20:18

something from social services. Okay.

20:21

And I gotta prove that it wasn't me

20:23

789 though it's clearly these people who

20:25

I have to prove that and try to place

20:27

that

20:27

in, you know, court

20:30

or wherever.

20:31

So she was going to file an

20:33

appeal. 789 was a lot of money,

20:35

and some part of her just

20:36

wanted to prove that this thing had actually

20:39

happened to her 789 she had

20:41

been robbed.

20:42

All she

20:43

had was grainy footage from one of

20:45

the stores. She wanted a stronger

20:48

case. If she could get better

20:50

quality 789 footage from another

20:52

store, Maybe she could identify the license plate

20:54

which could lead you to the criminals.

20:56

She

20:56

wanted to go in

20:59

person, but again, 789

21:01

were near Washington DC, a

21:03

Beltway, an interstate highway, and another

21:05

Beltway away. And her car wasn't

21:07

in great shape. And so okay.

21:10

Recording. Let's see.

21:12

Okay. I'll be there at ten thirty

21:15

six. Okay. And

21:16

that's how I wound up picking up Renee

21:18

at a Red Brick 789 House outside

21:20

Baltimore on a muggy August Day

21:22

to drive to DC. We

21:25

managed to find a time for this

21:27

after Rene performed some serious scheduling

21:30

gymnastics. Got a babysitter, moved

21:32

around her hectic work schedule, I

21:34

recognized her from Facebook, a white

21:36

lady in her thirties with a round

21:38

face and big green eyes.

21:40

Renee was so 789

21:42

on the phone. But 789, faced with the prospect

21:44

of doing in person detective work,

21:47

she's nervous again. I think I don't need

21:49

anything. Right? Know. I don't think

21:51

you need to take a thing anyway. Like, I think you just need to come in and,

21:53

like, go yeah. Like, just, like, explain who you

21:55

are. Okay. While you're

21:57

there. We stopped right outside DC,

22:00

a CVS. Renee

22:02

had already called the store and talked

22:04

to a guy named Keith, a

22:06

manager. We walk in to

22:08

find

22:08

him. How are you loving?

22:11

Oh, I spoke to you. Keith.

22:14

Oh, wait. Before your manager

22:15

tell? Okay. I'm the one who spoke to him with the baby formula that was

22:18

789. Yeah. They

22:20

tell Renee what everyone else did.

22:22

They're only allowed to show security footage

22:24

to law enforcement. But they

22:26

had, there is a police

22:29

station a couple blocks away. So if I

22:30

went there 789- Yeah. You go. No. -- they wouldn't come

22:32

right over here and

22:34

I 789 have that right over here. So

22:36

if they come back here, they do, which they probably won't,

22:38

but then you'll be able to show

22:39

them. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

22:41

Okay. Within

22:42

minutes, were standing outside the police department for the

22:45

small town of C Pleasant, 789, telling

22:47

Renee's story.

22:48

She explains that she had 789 her

22:50

food stamps stolen. One of the cops

22:52

has a hard time understanding how this crime

22:54

had gone

22:55

down, specifically how the thieves

22:58

got their own card. Because

22:59

the police in my area

23:01

copy 789 your information. They're saying 789

23:04

it. He had

23:04

my card. Even though I have my card, they had a

23:06

card. Like,

23:07

we have you a PIN

23:08

number too. Yeah. When

23:09

you scan when you scan

23:10

the the punch in the pins.

23:12

A skimmer is a device that these

23:14

put over card scanners.

23:16

789 looks just like a card scanner so you

23:18

can't tell. It can capture your card

23:21

information including your PIN.

23:23

789 EBT cards, the benefits cards, people on

23:26

assistance, like Renee, used to buy

23:28

789, they don't have the encrypted

23:30

chips that most credit and debit cards do.

23:33

Cards with chips are harder to

23:35

skin. On top of that,

23:37

EBT cards don't have fraud detection

23:39

services. You know, like those text

23:41

messages you get about suspicious

23:43

card 789. Text one if it was

23:45

you. And if not, they'll cancel the transaction.

23:47

And even

23:48

with debit cards, you can usually call your

23:51

bank and tell them that I was

23:53

stolen from yesterday, you could get your money

23:54

back. For an

23:55

AZBT card,

23:56

you didn't have any of that.

23:58

789 of

23:59

this has turned Snap recipients into

24:01

789. Even people like Renee who

24:03

never lets her card out of her 789.

24:06

When we try to explain all of this to the

24:08

officer, who listens

24:10

to Renee's story. So we have footage

24:12

from the Bowers. The

24:15

officer calls over another cop. Officer

24:17

Bowers. The supervisor tells him to get the footage

24:19

from CBS for us.

24:21

Bowers hops into his

24:23

patrol car and we get back into my car

24:25

to follow him. Then as

24:28

we're

24:28

driving, we noticed Bowers' car has

24:31

its lights flashing. Yep. I don't know

24:33

what these lights mean. He's

24:34

serious about his business. Yeah.

24:36

Creating me. But

24:38

freaking police escort 789 a

24:41

CVS. Why? It won't play Yeah.

24:43

It

24:43

just told me a news that safety were not playing. Looking

24:45

789, front of us directed us with his late

24:48

salons. When

24:48

we get there, Bowers

24:51

talks to the CVS employee. Who

24:53

shows them to the 789. We wait out front in the store

24:56

for about fifteen or twenty

24:57

789. Then officer

25:00

Bowers and the CBS employee reemerge.

25:03

Oh,

25:03

they're out. 789. You

25:06

got the same one?

25:07

Yeah. Bowers told us it was the

25:10

same woman. The one in a low

25:12

bun, in a blue striped skirt, buying

25:14

hundreds of dollars of baby formula.

25:17

Okay.

25:17

They they hit

25:17

up all the stores then. Okay.

25:19

Yeah. Give me one for you Are

25:21

we able to get the video? Officer Bowers

25:24

shows us the security footage, which he

25:26

recorded on his phone.

25:27

So We see

25:27

the woman getting into the same silver

25:30

minivan after.

25:31

We do have a vehicle. It's a Toyota

25:33

Sienna Sienna Sienna. Okay.

25:35

Yes.

25:35

Same

25:35

one from the other. Yes. So

25:36

I think this is a West Virginia tag.

25:39

The license plate, the thing that could

25:41

read them to the criminals.

25:44

It's blurry here too. But

25:47

Bowers says he'd used some fancy police tool

25:49

to try to figure it out. Finally,

25:51

the runner-up had landed Renee

25:53

somewhere. She'd found someone in a

25:56

position of authority actually willing

25:58

to help her. Okay. A

26:02

few days

26:06

later, officer Bowers calls

26:08

me. You won't

26:08

let me record her conference Renee in, so

26:10

I have to tell her afterward what he

26:12

said. Okay. Hey Renee. Hi.

26:15

I tell her that Bowers said

26:17

he thinks he found a match for the license

26:20

plate, but he couldn't hand that

26:22

information over to her.

26:23

His supervisor will no longer let him work

26:25

on

26:25

the case.

26:26

Where yeah.

26:29

Because Baltimore County already has an

26:31

investigation and that it should only be

26:33

done to Baltimore County

26:34

now. Oh

26:35

my god. And

26:37

so Renee's case landed back in the hands

26:40

of the cop 789 wasn't answering her texts or

26:42

calls. 789

26:42

were helping And

26:43

they understood Bowers was just following his

26:46

boss's orders, but

26:48

still it feels like even though it wasn't his

26:50

fault, it's like all these other people let me

26:52

down. So when we went there and they actually he helped

26:53

us. I was so excited.

26:55

I was

26:55

so excited.

26:56

I was thinking of, hey, well,

26:58

he was gonna call and we're gonna have, you

27:00

know, some news 789 that they caught

27:02

these people or you

27:03

know, something just

27:05

something. And

27:06

then, you know, he's doing the same 789 like every

27:08

other one

27:08

did. 789.

27:10

I don't

27:11

know what to think

27:12

anymore. So, I

27:13

mean, I could try to call officer Dallas. But

27:15

if he's gonna answer my questions, he's not gonna

27:17

answer the calls either. No. I

27:21

can I

27:22

can contact the guy from the OIG. He

27:24

was really nice, but

27:26

nobody's

27:26

saying anything.

27:27

Right. Just

27:28

kinda 789 me in the dark. Like, you

27:30

know, I don't know. It's just weird to me. Like,

27:32

this happened to me. I am not

27:35

some kind of, you know, the suspect, find the

27:37

victim that just happened to. Mhmm. I'm

27:43

just tired of I'm

27:45

789 of this.

27:47

I'm so sorry, Renee. 789

27:53

just frustrating. You know, you get in touch with all these

27:54

people. They promise to keep you updated. They

27:57

promise to call you back and

27:59

nothing. It makes

28:01

you think, like, why don't I even ask

28:03

for 789 help in the first

28:04

place? No. I mean,

28:07

I don't

28:07

know what else to

28:08

do. I've done everything 789, and I there's nothing else

28:10

for me to do. Yeah.

28:24

While she was trying to run down this three thousand dollars,

28:27

there was so much else going on in her

28:29

life. There always

28:30

is. In the last couple months,

28:33

a cracked tooth from stress, busted brakes

28:35

on 789 minivan. She

28:37

had to give away

28:37

her dog, they couldn't afford

28:39

it. One day, her

28:42

carbon monoxide alarm randomly went off,

28:44

and she had to call the fire department to sort

28:46

it out. But

28:48

surprisingly, The day news her

28:50

about Bowers, she managed to get in touch

28:52

with the cop who had been ghosting her

28:54

for weeks. Remember officer

28:57

Bales? Baltimore County cop

28:59

who, this whole time, was supposed to be

29:01

looking into her case. She'd reached

29:04

him in a very kind of private

29:06

detective sort of

29:07

way. So yesterday, I kept

29:09

calling officer Vale's system. It's

29:11

still going 789 voice mail. I said, this

29:13

is

29:13

weird. Why 789

29:15

it cell

29:15

phone from work. Why would it be off all the

29:18

time? And

29:18

then finally, I said, you know what? Let me stop

29:20

and quote me. Try from a different phone.

29:23

So,

29:23

you know, I

29:24

called from my

29:26

son's phone, and it rang.

29:28

I said, oh my

29:30

god. I think he blocked my

29:32

number. Oh. And your husband was so curious when I

29:35

got in touch with him. He's all, like, hello. And

29:37

I'm like, hi. All

29:39

sister Ballast. He's

29:41

like, who's the I

29:42

said, this is Renee. I said, you're the one handling

29:44

my case.

29:45

I said, I'm wondering if, like, you

29:47

blocked my number. And then he felt like a creep,

29:49

but I was so mad. And I'm like, I have

29:52

been trying to contact

29:53

you. And he's then once

29:55

I mentioned about being blocked, he, like, started

29:57

being super nice to me. And I said

29:58

that you guys should be getting this information,

30:01

not 789, not me in the news

30:03

reporter. We have been

30:05

getting

30:05

it. We went to the stores

30:07

to get the footage. Nobody

30:09

else.

30:09

And then he started, you know, he was like, you know,

30:12

try to stay strong 789 we're trying, he

30:14

gave me a number to another,

30:15

like, crime stopper or something like that. He said

30:17

they will

30:17

get on this more than anybody else.

30:20

Like, what do you mean they will get on

30:22

this? guys, if you

30:24

can't leave your area that you're

30:25

patrolling, then somebody should

30:28

be going there and doing this.

30:30

Then he also tells

30:31

me that, yeah, I'm pretty sure I 789 she

30:33

could open another case in another area.

30:35

I said, well, the other guy told

30:38

me that his boss said something different and he don't

30:40

think

30:40

this is what I mean about

30:43

the runaround.

30:46

We reached

30:53

out to the Baltimore County Police

30:55

789. They said officer Wallace

30:57

did block Renee's

30:58

number, quote, for a brief period

31:00

of time. But they also said

31:02

he was working on her

31:04

case. And

31:05

after Renee got through to Alice, he did

31:07

start updating her

31:08

more. He told her police found the skimmer

31:11

that they think was used to steal her

31:13

card number. But

31:15

then in November, Renee

31:17

lost the appeal she had filed.

31:19

The judge 789 Renee's

31:21

tenacity saying 789, quote, single handedly

31:23

and capably investigated the crime

31:25

and identified suspects. But

31:28

the judge also said that there 789 nothing

31:30

in Maryland law that requires social

31:32

services to repay stolen snap

31:33

funds. And so Renee

31:36

wasn't gonna get her money

31:37

back, but she was still looking for

31:40

some way. And an attorney

31:42

who volunteered to help her with her case

31:44

said, there is a way. You can

31:46

appeal the appeal. Renee

31:48

thought it over.

31:49

She's

31:49

like, it's up to you. Do you wanna do another

31:52

appeal? And I'm like, no. I

31:54

said, what's the purpose? Like, just to be let

31:56

down over and over by different

31:58

judges that are

31:58

saying, I'm

31:59

sorry. But then on the other hand, it's like I

32:02

already came this far. Why

32:04

not? Try to have another appeal and

32:06

do it again. My

32:07

mind just goes back and forth, like,

32:10

should I 789 I? Should

32:11

789? Shouldn't I? Answer, I should. She

32:14

filed a second appeal. There

32:17

is actually one other way

32:19

this whole thing could be fixed.

32:22

Congress could do something. In

32:25

kind of amazingly, they

32:27

sort of

32:27

have. The huge spending

32:30

bill Congress last month requires

32:32

states to reimburse people who have had their

32:34

staff benefits

32:34

strolling. It's

32:35

not gonna help Renee though. It

32:38

only applies to thefts since October.

32:40

Hears was in

32:41

August. Also, it ends in twenty

32:44

twenty four, so it's a temporary

32:46

fix. But Renee's

32:48

story did

32:49

get noticed. She actually testified

32:52

before the state senate. And 789, her

32:55

congressman who had been following this

32:57

issue introduced a bill that would fix things

32:59

in a permanent way. It

33:01

has bipartisan support and

33:03

looks like it might actually go

33:05

somewhere.

33:06

The runaround. It's a thing that can

33:09

happen to you, but it can also

33:11

be a

33:11

strategy. You just stay in

33:14

it until someone notices. And

33:17

does something. Brenna

33:26

Smith. She's an investigative reporter with the

33:29

Baltimore banner. We're a version of her

33:31

story for peered, the story was

33:33

produced by Chris 789.

33:40

Coming out a

33:40

nine year old on a run 789 that

33:43

his dad does not understand just 789

33:45

minute. I'm just gonna 789 up a radio

33:47

when that program continues.

33:50

It's just American

33:53

Life, Miracle Glass. Today's program, the

33:55

runaround, stories of all kinds of

33:57

runarounds that people find themselves

33:59

trapped 789. Test 789 they

34:01

are and other sorts of runarounds as

34:03

well. We have arrived at deck two of our

34:05

program, deck two, strange

34:07

789. So we now turn to a

34:09

different kind of runaround and the person you're gonna

34:11

hear about

34:11

next, nobody is giving him

34:14

the runaround.

34:15

Runaround just

34:16

running around for reasons that are

34:18

mysterious 789 to those who are closest to

34:20

him. David 789

34:22

talked to

34:23

him about it. The guy doing this running around in

34:25

circles, he's nine years old. And I know him because

34:28

I live with him. My son

34:30

Max started doing this early in

34:32

the pandemic. Max was one

34:34

of those kids where virtual school was

34:36

really impossible. Of those

34:38

faces and little boxes on the screen,

34:40

he just could not focus or stay

34:42

with it. His handwriting

34:44

was crazy. He sometimes struggled

34:46

to read his own name. At some

34:48

point, we realized he didn't know the months of

34:50

the year. He had

34:51

big hills to climb. I worried. One

34:54

day,

34:54

he hit on this idea of running

34:55

loops around

34:58

the block.

34:58

We live on a weird lollipop of the street, so these were actual

35:01

loops he was running round and

35:03

The neighbors told us he was sometimes the only

35:05

other person they would see

35:07

during the

35:08

day.

35:08

One time an older man

35:09

came out and gave him cookies. The running around seemed

35:11

to settle

35:12

his mind, in a way I did not fully

35:16

understand. Virtual school

35:18

was tears and frustration, but

35:20

running these loops reset him somehow. It

35:22

was more than just getting exercise.

35:25

I could see him talking to himself as he

35:27

went by, but I had no idea what

35:29

he was saying. He's been doing it

35:31

for years now, sometimes several

35:33

times a day. I'm going for a

35:35

runner on the

35:36

block. Sound of door closing, and then it'll be gone,

35:38

sometimes for twenty minutes. He's

35:41

done it first thing

35:41

in the morning, right out of bed when it's still

35:44

dark. He does it in the

35:46

rain, unknowingly, never with a

35:48

rain 789. I pile towels

35:50

by the

35:50

door. He'll

35:51

change clothes. But

35:52

then an hour later, go out again. He

35:54

did it when

35:55

it was minus twenty two wind

35:57

chill. I wanted to eavesdrop

35:58

789 one of these runs. To hear what

36:01

he was saying, something going on out there

36:03

was helping him. I wanted to

36:05

understand his

36:06

brain. So

36:07

I had this idea of pinning a small microphone

36:09

on him. He was not

36:11

into it. Max, wanna wear this microphone when

36:13

you run around the block?

36:15

Max, next time, Me. Max, I only want you to do this if

36:17

you want

36:17

to. Max, not now,

36:21

and so

36:22

on. But

36:24

I know how to work a reluctant source.

36:26

I got him after a run one

36:27

evening. It was dark

36:30

and raining. He agreed to

36:32

a

36:32

brief interview. I know anything about running. Don't ask me any more questions.

36:35

It's not

36:38

an interrogation. Get

36:40

his tied to a metal 789?

36:43

You're

36:43

just holding your hands behind your back as if you're

36:46

tied to a metal

36:48

chair. Accounts. 789 you

36:50

remember the joke you told me the other day about

36:52

ADHD? What does ADHD

36:54

stand for? Attention deficit.

36:58

Hey, donuts.

36:59

Do you ever feel like that

37:01

in your

37:02

head? Yeah.

37:04

Like distracted while

37:08

doing something. And when you're running,

37:09

does that ever happen? No. I'm

37:11

focused on my running and

37:14

my story.

37:16

That's it.

37:17

A

37:17

story. That's

37:18

what's going

37:18

on in his head out 789. Going

37:21

around and around. He's telling

37:23

himself

37:23

a story. 789

37:25

what they're

37:25

remember the

37:26

first story I ever had.

37:29

It's

37:29

pretty much just

37:32

little 789. A little

37:34

duck, and they've really

37:36

friends, and they

37:39

bottled

37:39

around. The stories

37:40

have changed as he's gotten older. Did

37:43

you have a

37:44

story in your

37:45

head just now?

37:45

Yeah. There was this big

37:48

Ren monster.

37:50

789, imagine a

37:52

human than imagine him

37:55

completely ash like just

37:57

ash. It's

37:59

interesting to hear

38:00

this. It has

38:01

an attention to detail that is sometimes not present in other

38:03

parts of his life. Then

38:05

I wanted to a little

38:07

red team 789 off him. He's like

38:10

a fire person. His hair is on

38:11

fire. His eyes are red like

38:14

fired. He told

38:14

me another one that was like, pieces

38:17

of the world in his and recombined. This one violated

38:19

multiple copyrights. The 789 weren't

38:21

it, but then

38:24

also Space Man 789 from Calvin and Hobbs, and

38:26

also

38:26

somehow. I was pretending to

38:29

to be of Arthur

38:33

Dent. I think

38:34

yeah. Arthur Dent. From hitchhiker's 789

38:36

to the galaxy. What

38:38

do you think it is about

38:42

about running

38:42

in a story that is 789. I

38:45

don't know. I have

38:47

no idea. Are you

38:48

thinking about a story like

38:49

all day long kind

38:52

of? All day. I run and wander during

38:54

recess 789 the thing. And

38:56

I usually sometimes I play

38:59

with my friends, and sometimes I wonder around thinking

39:01

about it. 789. Wow.

39:04

It's like all day

39:07

long. Yep. That's kind of

39:09

amazing. I didn't

39:11

know that. Could you

39:14

think of

39:14

the story if you were just staying in the house?

39:17

Yeah. I 789, but it's

39:20

harder. I could think of one, but

39:22

it's harder.

39:22

Why do you

39:23

think it's easier when you're

39:25

running around a I don't

39:28

know. This big is a

39:30

movie. I don't know why. That's

39:32

bit 789 strange thing,

39:34

where if I'm

39:35

moving, it's completely fine. I have to move to

39:37

see it, but if I'm standing still,

39:39

it's really hard.

39:40

It's funny that you're just running in circles, you know? Yeah.

39:44

Like,

39:44

you're not going 789. Well,

39:46

my head and I am. In

39:50

my head, I am.

39:57

Smarted you. What'd you

40:00

say? Oh, 789 y

40:04

daddy. The

40:10

philosopher Thomas Nagel once wrote an

40:12

essay titled, 789 is it like to be a

40:14

bat? Apparently, he had bats in

40:16

his house and they wondered if it was possible to truly know what it

40:18

was like to be a

40:19

bat, to have webbing on

40:20

your arms, to

40:21

perceive the world with sonar, to hang

40:24

upside down in

40:26

the attic. His answer

40:27

was no. You

40:27

could not know the mind of such a

40:30

creature. Okay. She

40:31

didn't go. Yes. Go.

40:34

Okay. Bye. Max

40:36

did finally agree to let me put a mic on him while he ran

40:38

around the

40:39

block. It was like I

40:42

was

40:42

right there

40:43

with him. He's slashes.

40:46

He was battling some invisible monster.

40:52

Oh, be fine. I'll be fine. I'll be

40:53

fine, she says. Which cuts are

40:55

deep. 789 cuts are deep. 789

40:58

fine. It's

41:00

fine.

41:01

You're right, Max.

41:04

It is.

41:11

David Kastenbaum

41:14

is our show's senior editor.

41:24

Actually, Americans

41:26

most wanted.

41:27

So we now turn to 789, trying to

41:29

give the run Runaround to the police.

41:32

And in this case, choosing a route that you

41:34

see now and then in the

41:35

movies, they escape to Mexico. That's right.

41:37

Across the border, to

41:38

start a new life in a country where they

41:40

think that they're gonna be safe,

41:43

So many people do this. In fact, the numbers on the

41:45

rise, the Mexican police formed a special

41:48

elite unit. 789 only mandate is

41:50

to catch

41:52

these fugitives. Units based in Baja California, just south of San

41:54

Diego, that work with tips they get from the FBI

41:56

and US Marshals, they are

41:58

called the

42:00

Gringo 789. Kevin

42:01

Seif, as a reporter for the Washington Post, he

42:04

hung out with him, as he ran around trying

42:06

to snag 789

42:07

cheetos. The cops in this special unit find

42:09

the green goes everywhere. In

42:11

beach resorts at a night club called

42:13

Pappas and

42:14

beer, in cars with sex workers,

42:16

in Carls junior parking lots.

42:18

Some had

42:19

undergone plastic surgery and acquired new names

42:21

they couldn't pronounce. Some

42:23

were found

42:24

dead. They were former playboy

42:26

models, amateur surfers, ex

42:28

navy officers. Most of

42:30

them are alleged serious criminals, rapists,

42:34

pedophiles, murderers, The cops have

42:36

become used to the way American 789 saunter

42:38

across the border expecting that they

42:40

won't be

42:41

found. Here's my sass. He was

42:43

the head of the unit when I was

42:45

there. He's

42:45

proud of his work, but he gets 789 it can be kind

42:47

of funny

42:49

sometimes. As many

42:53

Americans, I think

42:55

789, like, in the cartoons, 789 the

42:58

movies, in Mexico. Wow. I was yeah,

43:00

that everybody there has boots and hat, and 789 was on a

43:02

horse or on a donkey. And so

43:04

then they think I can go in

43:06

a height there. And 789 mean, they when

43:09

they come here to Mexico and they say,

43:11

no, this is here's a city. I mean,

43:13

it's a big city. And if it's even

43:16

better, I'll hide and the police will never

43:18

find me. And 789

43:21

they least expected.

43:24

Boom.

43:25

There we

43:27

are. Moises has been

43:29

doing the job for twelve Hanging out with him, he's like an

43:32

encyclopedia of

43:34

gringo fugitives. 789 lot of the

43:36

Grinkos 789 tells me are white guys who

43:38

think they can make a go of hiding on the

43:40

coast, blending in with

43:42

789, but they can't. 789

43:52

way they express themselves is a

43:54

little 789 different. The t

43:57

shirts are different. If

43:59

they're wearing shorts, the

44:02

shorts are

44:03

different. Totally different.

44:08

Even

44:08

the shoes are totally different.

44:10

One officer told me the Americans wear flip flops that

44:12

are one size too big, usually with

44:13

socks. Then there are the Mexican

44:16

American

44:17

fugitives. Who 789 still such

44:20

cops. They're born in the

44:22

US, they have family in Mexico, but they

44:24

can never totally blend

44:26

in either. Something

44:28

about them is eventually going to betray them

44:30

as

44:30

American. That's

44:31

the kind of fugitive they were chasing when

44:33

I was with them. A Mexican

44:35

American guy named Salinas. He's twenty years old from

44:38

Fresno, California. Back in

44:42

twenty twenty, Salinas had allegedly murdered another man at the scene of traffic

44:44

accident. The killing was

44:46

shocking, seemingly unprovoked a

44:48

gunshot at point blank

44:50

range. 789 victim

44:53

was a thirty six year old mechanic named Joshua Tau. He was like

44:55

a father to his nieces and nephews his

44:57

789 said. Right before he was

44:59

shot, witnesses

45:00

789,

45:02

He shook the murderer's hand trying to calm tempers. After

45:05

the shooting 789 vanished,

45:08

there were no leads. He'd

45:11

been a fugitive for almost two

45:12

years. Now suddenly

45:13

there was new intel. Salinas was

45:15

supposedly here in

45:18

Encana, about an hour and a half

45:20

south of the border, cutting hair in a

45:24

barbershop. 789 Abigail,

45:26

one

45:26

of the 789 officers, was

45:29

leading the

45:29

planet. They didn't have a search warrant, so they were gonna

45:30

have to find a way to lure 789

45:34

outside.

45:35

789 don't

45:38

know. Maybe if their car is outside,

45:40

we can be, like, maybe, like,

45:42

find a way to be, like, oh, you got

45:44

a flat tire or something. Could you come out?

45:46

I think your car has a flat tire. And then

45:48

when they go

45:49

out, that's when we get them. We've done that before.

45:51

A 789 message. Abigail is the only

45:53

woman on the

45:55

team. You'd think she's the boss even though she's not.

45:58

She's on her phone constantly pumping her

46:00

sources and colleagues for more and

46:02

better intel. 789 what

46:04

she was doing during the Salinas case, shouting a stream of

46:06

questions into her

46:07

phone. Did

46:08

Salinas have any connection

46:09

to Mexico? Who was he

46:12

living with? Where was he getting his

46:14

money from?

46:14

She paused

46:15

at one point to catch

46:17

her breath. Sorry, she said to her colleague.

46:19

It's a murder case. So it's a

46:21

little bit urgent. We

46:33

get

46:37

to the barbershop. Abigail and her colleague, Yvonne, scope it out

46:39

from the front seat. Yvonne is a

46:41

former bodyguard. He's the one in the

46:43

team most likely to show up with

46:45

a six pack after a big

46:47

win. He gets a

46:50

text. There's intel from

46:53

the US Marshals.

46:55

Us

46:55

something? It was a new

46:57

tip. They're

46:58

sending us to another 789,

47:02

Yvonne. It

47:04

sounds like Salinas

47:07

is in 789,

47:10

about an hour north. So Abigail

47:13

floors it along the highway that traces the Pacific 789, driving close

47:15

to a hundred miles

47:18

an hour. 789

47:21

of the 789 Presence are everywhere.

47:23

Big billboards in English that say things

47:26

like invest in your new Ocean

47:28

View House. Another said, Thong and tequila

47:29

party. In some ways, this part

47:31

of Mexico

47:32

seems perfect for Americans trying

47:36

to disappear. But

47:36

Abigail has become a pro at drawing them out. She told me earlier

47:39

that morning about one of her new

47:41

strategies. She's created a bunch of

47:43

fake Facebook accounts

47:45

using stock photos of attractive women that she

47:48

uses to catfish fugitives.

47:50

One guy had

47:50

actually posted on a Facebook group

47:53

looking to meet people he even

47:55

used

47:56

his real name.

48:00

He wanted to smoke

48:02

some weed and he wanted

48:04

to smoke you with me and stay overnight at my place and have a crazy night. And

48:07

I said, yes. So,

48:11

yeah, he brought his little suitcase with his

48:13

clothes, and he was thought he was gonna stay with me

48:15

for a few days. All, like, washed

48:18

up

48:19

and cologne, Another

48:20

cop from the

48:23

unit cuts in

48:26

and starts to

48:29

roll big girl. Sometimes they arrive stinky,

48:31

he

48:31

says. It's so you

48:34

don't

48:34

have to struggle with the stinky perk. Right?

48:36

He says, We just 789 deliver them

48:38

nice and clean, no fuss, back

48:41

to the gringo. Abigail

48:47

grew up in

48:50

Tijuana, secretly dreaming of becoming

48:52

a police

48:54

officer. Her mother

48:56

begged her not to. Being a cop was

48:58

dangerous, but she said she was born to

49:00

do

49:01

the job. Abigail waited until her own daughter

49:03

was a little over two. And then she

49:05

signed

49:05

up. The stakes feel so high

49:06

to her. The Gringo is coming

49:08

across. They

49:09

could just repeat their crimes on her

49:11

side of the border.

49:13

She told me about the case of a pedophile who fled

49:15

the US. He moved into a

49:18

house near a Tijuana Elementary

49:19

School, where he was getting ready to look for

49:21

more kids to abuse. She

49:23

was like, if we don't catch this

49:25

guy

49:25

today, who

49:26

knows what he'll do here in Mexico?

49:32

When

49:33

we arrived in

49:36

Tijuana, we parked across

49:39

from the second barber shop Nivon

49:41

and Abigail began their surveillance.

49:44

As always, they work undercover. Today,

49:46

jeans and t shirts like two friends headed

49:48

out for a day at the beach. Abigail

49:52

bought some nachos from the shop next door,

49:54

slightly peering into the barbershop.

49:56

Yvonne put

49:56

on a black backpack and walk

49:59

by. Disguised, I guess, as a thirty something

50:01

year old student. Then we

50:03

all settled in the car and got

50:05

comfortable staring through the

50:07

windshield. Usually on steak

50:08

outs, 789 is constantly turning up the

50:11

volume on bad bunny.

50:12

Today he's

50:13

kind of bragging. Showing me

50:15

dozens of photos of the Gringo's he's arrested, like a yearbook of American

50:18

fugitives. Then they get

50:20

another call.

50:24

Someone has left

50:27

the apartment

50:29

above the

50:32

barbershop. The person got into

50:34

a gold Honda Accord and drove

50:35

away. One

50:36

of the agents says over the

50:38

radio, I think it's Salinas. Then they take

50:41

off, cutting across four lanes of

50:43

traffic. Abigail cuts off the Honda 789

50:45

they surround

50:47

the car. I'm

50:49

watching them approach the car, and this is kind of a scary moment. Only a

50:51

few weeks before 789

50:52

cops had been in a shootout with

50:55

789 fugitive from California. Moises

50:57

and Yvonne got

50:58

shot. The

50:59

team told me that they were worried that

51:01

Salinas too might come out shooting if

51:03

he was cornered. I

51:07

watched them pull a skinny

51:10

guy out of the driver's

51:12

seat and push him against the car.

51:14

He didn't look to me like the guy had seen in

51:16

the most wanted posters. Then they take his wallet from his back

51:18

pocket. There's a California driver's

51:22

license. With the name Damian

51:24

Salinas. They get

51:25

out their handcuffs. Where's your

51:28

name? Damian

51:30

Damian. Okay. You

51:32

have other ID. Only have this. Only so

51:34

only it's valid. You have something you

51:37

might in the 789?

51:40

Nothing.

51:41

No. Even

51:46

after all the buildup,

51:46

there was still something startling about 789

51:49

the cops catch their fugitive. Okay. It was

51:52

surreal. They

51:53

start figuring

51:54

out logistics. Who's gonna take the 789

51:56

Honda? Selena seemed

51:58

confused. He starts saying

52:00

I will go. That's what

52:02

Abigail interrupts him. No.

52:04

You're coming with us. See.

52:10

789 789

52:18

doesn't put up

52:21

a fight. They stick him in the

52:23

backseat of the car, and I ask if I can sit next to

52:25

him to ask a few questions.

52:27

They say sure, but they put the biggest cop in the unit

52:29

between us 789 case Salinas lunges at

52:32

789. But

52:32

he doesn't. He looks like

52:34

he just woke up from a nap. Yeah. I'm not a just

52:37

to be clear, I'm not a law enforcement official.

52:39

I'm I'm a

52:42

journalist.

52:44

789. I'm a

52:45

journalist.

52:45

Yeah. Those are bad as jobs. I like

52:48

those.

52:49

It's interesting sometimes.

52:53

This whole day I've been

52:55

wondering, what is this guy gonna be like?

52:57

How had he evaded authorities for

52:59

almost two years?

53:01

I think I'd been expecting an

53:03

angry, sophisticated criminal. This guy after all

53:05

was being accused of homicide,

53:07

but Salinas is like a kid trying

53:09

to disguise himself as a man. His

53:12

mustache is

53:12

wispy. He's wearing air Jordan sandals

53:15

with socks. Forever 789 Coast was

53:17

tattooed on his right

53:18

arm. He keeps saying how nervous

53:20

he is, but then he spends

53:22

a 789 about how he'd only been caught because

53:24

he let his guard down. Why didn't he try

53:26

to go further into Mexico. Like you stayed

53:29

so close for the border.

53:31

So a

53:32

woman, I'm not a dumbass, though. I know why they

53:34

caught me. I just stopped trying after,

53:36

well, you know, things gone. You

53:40

know? Because, 789, they're

53:42

smart. You know, so it's every every place they hit, I was right.

53:44

I was 789 watching them. I watch them

53:46

like they watch me when after a

53:48

while, I just gave

53:50

up. Like 789 it. I do give up.

53:52

As it's going through a lot.

53:54

He's not being alone, he said at the present.

53:58

PTSD gigs in, all

54:00

kinds of shit. So you basically were

54:02

like resigned yourself to getting caught.

54:04

You almost wanted to get caught.

54:06

Sounds

54:07

like. Abigail weaves through Tijuana

54:09

traffic with the siren on. We're headed

54:11

to the border to hand Salinas over

54:13

to US authorities. 789 then

54:17

Yvonne puts on gangsters paradise and turns up the volume.

54:19

He tells me, ask him if

54:21

he's a

54:22

rapper. You

54:25

rapper? Or were you ever

54:27

rapper? Yeah. Like, if you

54:29

ever sung

54:31

a song? No.

54:32

No. I know. And then they pull

54:34

up a video on Yvonne's cell phone. It's

54:37

a video of Salinas wrapping.

54:40

Taken

54:42

from his

54:46

social

54:48

media. Why

54:50

why why did you line so you didn't

54:52

have

54:52

a song if you had a song? I'm not

54:55

gonna embarrass me. Selena

54:56

seems calm at this point.

54:59

789 parks

55:02

the car at the border, and the Mexican police

55:04

marked Salinas passed a long

55:07

line of

55:08

people. The

55:08

daily border crossers and migrants who are waiting to enter the

55:11

US on foot. They 789 their

55:12

necks to look at

55:13

the American fugitive.

55:16

A small group of uniformed US officials is

55:18

standing at the border. One of the

55:20

agents bends his knees in a blocker's

55:24

position. As if Salinas might make a run for it. Yeah. We know we know all

55:26

about

55:26

it. So we got we got the phone 789. We

55:28

got 789 bank on it. Alright.

55:31

Salina, he's gonna

55:33

wanna The Mexican police take off the

55:36

Mexican handcuffs and the Americans put on

55:38

American cuffs. It feels

55:40

almost ceremonial. The rest is

55:42

done. The Gringo is back and

55:44

Gringo hands. I

55:51

watched the Gringlehunters walk back from border

55:54

to their car.

55:54

They had

55:55

just arrested an alleged

55:57

murderer. I look for some kind of

55:59

reaction. I'm not sure what exactly at

56:01

high five, a look of accomplishment,

56:04

but there was

56:06

almost

56:06

nothing. The unit chases and catches so many gringo's that Salinas

56:08

was just another name on their list.

56:10

They already had their next day's assignment,

56:13

woman had kidnapped and 789 a

56:16

child. They too were likely

56:18

living

56:19

in Tijuana. A

56:24

few weeks after the Selena's chase, I

56:26

was talking to Moises, the head of the Grinkgo

56:28

hunters, and he told me this thing.

56:31

He said that sometimes he's hanging out with his friends who

56:33

are not 789, and he gets this feeling that

56:35

I think cops everywhere

56:37

789, that regular people just don't know how

56:39

many bad guys are out there.

56:41

They don't know

56:41

how scary it can feel to chase fugitive

56:43

789, stay in and

56:45

day out. 789 I

56:51

do is so that right now, you guys can all be hanging

56:53

out accordingly. Because if we

56:55

didn't do it, 789 be

56:59

surrounded by all these kind of people. Like, we wouldn't be able to

57:01

just hang out in the afternoons

57:03

789 evenings because

57:06

you 789 be looking shoulder

57:08

because we've caught an

57:10

infinite number of Americans. Participated

57:15

Runaround thirteen twelve

57:19

hundred future deliveries, I

57:22

mean, that's a lot of future 789 we've rested.

57:25

789

57:26

two or three per week.

57:29

Alignment. One hundred forty 789

57:32

hundred and fifty a year --

57:34

Alright. -- per year. And it

57:36

never ends. Right? They just keep on coming?

57:39

Yeah. Yeah.

57:43

Maybe just keep on coming. Keep on coming.

57:46

Yeah. Keep

57:48

on coming. I mean, there are

57:50

times when things slow down, but

57:52

then suddenly it's, like, maybe

57:55

they all agree to come across at the same

57:57

time, but I don't know. I like to

57:59

say that they all keep on the

58:01

same bus. It's 789

58:11

doesn't come out

58:14

and say 789. But chasing American

58:16

fugitives all day, it has shaped how he sees

58:18

the

58:19

United Part

58:20

of the problem he

58:21

says is that in the US 789 easy

58:23

to get a gun. On

58:24

some of his trips

58:25

there, it seemed like everyone

58:27

was armed. As

58:29

we talked, it struck me that he'd come to

58:31

see Mexico as being in a perilous

58:34

position, bordering this heavily armed crime

58:36

infested nation.

58:38

I'd heard that tone before. He spoke with a

58:40

very real fear and perhaps a little

58:42

bit of hysteria. The same

58:44

way I've heard so many Americans

58:46

789 about

58:49

a lawless Mexico.

58:54

Kevin Seif with the Washington

58:56

Post. He has 789 print version of

58:58

this story with pictures that you can find

59:00

online at the 789 website Story

59:03

was produced by

59:06

Nadia Raymond.

59:20

Oh, once upon midnight

59:23

here. Well, something in

59:25

my head. Gonna

59:28

skip that

59:30

the real phone call in about what

59:32

you 789. Like game

59:34

show, just with partying is

59:38

not 789. My

59:40

eyes. That's all good. But

59:42

Santa 789 family to

59:44

you and tell me, like,

59:47

thank you for and

59:50

tell me.

59:55

Our problem is produced today by Chris

59:58

Banderbef, who will put 789 shirt together today includes on the

1:00:00

baker's sean 789, kokamate,

1:00:02

Andrea Lopez Fersado 789 the cornfield, Bethel Hadre Casi Haile Valerie

1:00:04

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Berry. The voice actors in the 789 Hunter's

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program's cofounder, Mr. Tory Malentia. You know,

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he tried to give me his recipe

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for Tardukin.

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789 don't know.

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I just don't think he got it right. It's pretty much just

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a little chicken, a little

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duck, and they're

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really friends.

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And I wear a glass back next week with more stories of

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Next week on the

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knife. When Megan was in college, she's

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spent a whole year in the library learning how

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to speak

1:01:47

Mandarin. To write the characters all over her dad.

1:01:49

I wanted to

1:01:50

learn Chinese because I was trying to

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get closer to you.

1:01:54

Only learned their father did not, in

1:01:56

fact, speak Mandarin. Yep.

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Supplied. Supplied. It's

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kind of relationship they always had.

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Until recently when everything

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