0:00

When you're behind the wheel,

0:02

it's okay to rock out to your music.

0:05

But it's not okay to interact with your phone

0:07

screen and electronic devices while

0:09

driving. In most cases, anything

0:11

more than a single touch or swipe is

0:14

against the law. That means no

0:16

texting, no typing, no scrolling,

0:19

no shopping, no browsing. If

0:21

an officer sees a violation, they can

0:23

pull you over. So remember,

0:26

Ohio, phones down. It's

0:28

the law.

0:53

And

0:58

you're looking for a podcast, or if you know

1:00

somebody like that,

1:01

check it out. It's called Grown.

1:03

Older people might like it, too. You can get

1:05

it wherever you get your podcasts. And now, here's

1:08

today's show. A

1:10

quick warning. There are curse words that are un-beeped

1:13

in today's episode of the show. If you prefer

1:15

a beeped version, you can find that at

1:17

our website, thisamericanlife.org.

1:21

That

1:21

happened nine months ago in Georgia.

1:24

I was at work, and

1:26

I ate a Reese's cup, which is

1:28

what I usually eat. And I don't

1:31

know, I just felt really sick immediately.

1:34

Taylor was pretty sure. Not totally

1:36

sure, but pretty sure. It

1:39

was the same with Kay in Ohio. She

1:41

suspected, but it was confusing. Yeah,

1:45

I had COVID the same time. So

1:47

it was just kind of like, is it COVID, is it not? I

1:50

had like a little bit of nausea, but

1:52

honestly, I just kind of chalked it up to not

1:55

really feeling the best.

1:57

Ashley in Texas, she was nauseous, too. But

2:00

her kids just had a stomach bug. And

2:02

so I had been feeling sick, but

2:04

then everyone else felt better. And

2:08

come the morning of Fourth of July, like I

2:10

just threw up so hard. I mean,

2:12

I don't know if this is kind of like too much information,

2:14

but I wasn't puking out my food

2:16

from last night. I didn't have stomach poisoning. I was dry

2:18

heaving. like it was a pregnancy

2:21

hormonal morning sickness puking,

2:23

which if you've puked for entire pregnancies

2:25

before, it's very specific.

2:31

Katie

2:31

was one of many women whose boyfriends insisted

2:33

on multiple tests. Her boyfriend did

2:36

not believe it. He, when

2:38

he saw it, he was like, no, it could

2:40

be wrong, take another one, take another one.

2:42

It's gonna, it could be wrong. And

2:44

it was one of the digital ones. So it wasn't

2:46

like we read the lines wrong or anything. It was a digital

2:49

one and it like came back quick.

2:51

I was like, there's no way it's wrong. It

2:54

wasn't wrong. She was pregnant. They

2:57

were all pregnant and they all did not want to

2:59

be pregnant, but they all lived in

3:01

states that had just banned abortion.

3:04

Taylor in Georgia. I was very naive

3:06

about it because I had totally forgot. I think Roe v.

3:08

Wade was maybe like in May. This June,

3:11

the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, the

3:13

ruling that made abortion a constitutional right.

3:17

that happened the week before Taylor got pregnant. Yeah,

3:19

so it was new, but it also wasn't

3:22

something that was like

3:24

important to me on the regular, you know,

3:26

day-to-day. So I

3:27

got on the phone and I called and they were super rude

3:30

to me at Planned Parenthood. I was like,

3:32

well, I don't even think I'm six weeks. And I

3:34

really wasn't understanding what she was saying because she was

3:36

saying, it doesn't really matter. We're

3:39

just not gonna be able to do it. You know, and that's when

3:41

I was like, oh, like I totally forgot

3:43

that this is like this new thing where

3:45

I can't go and get it done, I

3:47

have to go somewhere else.

3:49

Kay in Ohio was also looking for a clinic.

3:52

She started calling immediately. They

3:54

didn't have anything for like,

3:56

I think it was like a month or two.

3:59

It was so backed up.

4:02

And it was like that

4:04

pretty much everywhere I had checked.

4:06

It was either like a few weeks to

4:09

a couple months.

4:10

They'd have to wait. It's

4:12

been nine months since the Supreme Court overturned Roe v.

4:14

Wade. And to mark that fact, on

4:16

today's show, we're going to look at what these last

4:18

nine months have been like for people who discovered they were

4:20

pregnant right when the laws changed in their

4:23

states and came up against a wall,

4:25

trying to find an abortion. These

4:28

are people who nine months ago found themselves waiting

4:30

for an appointment. Waiting

4:33

to get together money to travel,

4:35

to make a plan, just to get

4:37

somebody on the phone. And

4:39

in that waiting, there was time

4:41

for other things to happen. For

4:44

instance, Kay and Ohio and Taylor and Georgia were

4:46

both waiting for an appointment, and one day Kay

4:49

and her boyfriend walked to Dairy Queen. It wasn't

4:51

until the walk back that we started to talk

4:54

about it, And we were

4:56

both kind of joking about the

4:58

fact that, you know, like, oh, I wonder

5:01

what our baby would look like.

5:03

And so we were like discussing

5:05

like, Oh, what color eyes do you think they would have?

5:07

What color hair? We got to talking

5:09

about like, what we were like as kids.

5:12

And then we were like, Yeah, that, you know, could

5:14

be, I

5:15

guess, fun to have our own. I was

5:18

like, watching us talk about how we

5:20

were and I was like yeah that would be awesome

5:23

to like have you know a baby

5:25

with this person.

5:26

Talking through it I was like oh

5:29

my gosh like am I changing my mind like

5:32

am I gonna keep it? Taylor started

5:34

wondering the same thing. She'd

5:36

been certain until she waited. First

5:39

for the ultrasound appointment and then

5:41

for the abortion. It was weeks and weeks.

5:44

I just spent a lot of time I'm

5:46

thinking what I wanted if I felt like,

5:50

you know, do I want to have a kid or not? I

5:52

think it was the first time for someone like

5:54

me who's very sure of themselves. That was the

5:56

first time

5:56

I was ever stumped. I

5:59

can't tell where I've been pregnant. weeks earlier, they

6:01

both would have gotten abortions at nearby clinics. But

6:04

now, this new reality set

6:07

them both on very different paths

6:09

as they try to find their way to an abortion. From

6:12

WBC Chicago, it's This American Life, I'm

6:14

Ira Glass, today's show, nine

6:17

months after the end of Roe v. Wade. Today's

6:21

episode was inspired by the excellent reporting of

6:23

Caroline Kitchener, who covers abortion

6:25

for The Washington Post. If you've ever

6:27

seen her stories, Caroline's reporting just

6:29

gets inside people's lives in this

6:31

way that feels very unusual, intimate

6:35

and very real and you see how

6:37

not black and white people's feelings

6:39

and situations can be. She'll

6:41

be with us for the hour. Stay with us,

6:43

okay?

6:51

First trimester. So

6:53

we start today's show in those first few months right

6:55

after the court's decision and how this played out

6:58

for Cahn Taylor, who both found out they

7:00

were pregnant and both weren't on abortions. 14

7:02

states have banned most abortions

7:05

since Roe was overturned. And for

7:07

some people, that's it. They won't get abortions. But

7:10

others, of course, like Cahn Taylor, they're

7:12

still going to try to get one. And for them,

7:14

the state bans are a hurdle. That slows

7:17

things down as they try to figure out how.

7:20

The anti-abortion movement is aware

7:22

that there's this new window of time where

7:25

maybe they could reach these people and persuade

7:27

them to change their minds.

7:29

Since the fall of Roe, there's been a big push to do just

7:31

that, to increase state funding for

7:33

crisis pregnancy centers, which

7:35

already get millions of dollars from taxpayers.

7:38

These are clinics whose whole mission is to convince

7:40

people to not get abortions. Meanwhile,

7:43

online, anti-abortion folks are trying

7:45

to connect with people who are looking for information

7:47

about abortions. And any abortion

7:50

activist reached both Kay and Taylor during

7:52

the first trimester. And each responded

7:54

very differently. Caroline Kitchener

7:57

watches unfold for each of them in two separate...

8:00

States week by week. Just

8:02

a quick note that we've changed some names in today's show

8:04

for people who requested that for privacy, though

8:07

Kay and Taylor are their real names. Anyway,

8:10

here's Caroline. Kay was in

8:12

Ohio. Taylor was

8:14

in Georgia. Both states had just

8:16

banned abortion after six weeks of pregnancy.

8:20

That leaves a super short window to get an abortion.

8:24

From the beginning, Kay tried to approach her pregnancy

8:26

the way she approaches other things in her life. She's

8:29

methodical, organized. Kay

8:32

is 25 years old, white, owns her own

8:34

pet sitting business. She

8:36

kept track of her periods on an app, and when

8:38

she missed one, she took a pregnancy test.

8:41

It was positive. She started calling

8:43

clinics to try to get an appointment for an abortion.

8:46

Kay wasn't completely sure she wanted one. Ever

8:49

since that walk with her boyfriend to the Dairy Queen, she'd

8:52

started going back and forth, wondering

8:54

if maybe she should keep the pregnancy after all.

8:57

She made a pro-con list.

8:59

She really wasn't sure.

9:01

Her boyfriend kept telling her that he'd support her

9:03

no matter what. That wasn't exactly

9:05

helpful. She pressed him, trying

9:08

to figure out what he actually thought.

9:10

Because I was like, well, OK, I'm making

9:12

up my mind. Like, I'm going to have an abortion.

9:14

How do you feel about that? That's fine.

9:18

OK, well, I changed my mind. And now I'm thinking

9:20

about keeping it. How do you feel about that? That's fine.

9:22

And I was like, dude, what the hell? Come

9:25

on, like give me something more.

9:27

It was just kind of like wanting almost

9:30

like somebody to tell me what to do because I

9:32

felt so out of control of the situation.

9:37

That like I just needed like somebody

9:40

almost to like help me make the decision.

9:43

Finally, Kay found a woman's center

9:45

online that offered free ultrasounds and

9:48

abortion consultations. They had

9:50

an appointment right away.

9:51

I remember my first thought

9:53

was like, Wow, this is super purple.

9:56

Um, what was purple?

9:59

pretty much

9:59

everything, the walls,

10:02

some of the decor. I just remember

10:04

it was very calming

10:07

and quiet. I remember them offering

10:09

me ginger ale.

10:11

And I was just like, yeah, I'll take ginger ale. I'm

10:14

super nauseous. The Women's Center

10:16

was actually a crisis pregnancy center. Those

10:19

are places where staff are specially trained to

10:21

talk people out of having abortions.

10:24

But Kay didn't know any of that. She

10:26

was there to get an answer to a question. Could

10:28

she get an abortion in Ohio at all? Was

10:31

she still under six weeks? The

10:34

Crisis Pregnancy Center gave her an ultrasound. I

10:36

was like, okay, well, how far along am I?

10:39

And they were like too

10:41

early to even tell. It's

10:44

too early to like

10:46

say anything.

10:48

A trained ultrasound hack should have been

10:50

able to give her some sense of how far along

10:52

she was starting around five weeks,

10:55

which is right where Kay thought she was. Obviously,

10:57

I'm not a doctor, so I'm not

11:00

gonna argue with somebody. But

11:02

I was kind of looking at it, I'm like, there's nothing

11:05

you can tell me? Like,

11:07

absolutely nothing.

11:10

And I was just like,

11:12

is there anything? Like,

11:15

any type of estimate.

11:18

And she was like, I can't

11:20

say. like, we'll just have to

11:22

like reschedule another ultrasound

11:25

about a week from now. The

11:27

only thing that kept going through my head

11:29

was like, I'm going to be past six weeks.

11:32

Here is something I've heard from abortion providers.

11:35

Crisis pregnancy centers will sometimes

11:37

delay telling people how far along they are, or

11:40

they'll misinform people about how far along they

11:42

are,

11:43

until abortion is no longer an option. The

11:46

doctors tell me they've heard this from patients to

11:48

come in to see them after going to a pregnancy

11:50

center. Kay had

11:53

wanted someone to help her decide what to do with

11:55

this pregnancy, and she'd walked

11:57

into a place that was specifically set up.

11:59

to do just that.

12:07

Meanwhile, Taylor could not get an abortion

12:10

in Georgia because she was too far along. She

12:13

had to fly to Florida for her appointment,

12:15

but the soonest one she could get was weeks away. Taylor

12:19

is 27 years old, black. She

12:21

studied film in college, ended up working

12:23

an office job at a financial services company.

12:26

She'd just gotten her first apartment.

12:29

Also, she's a little bit nerdy. Big

12:31

Reddit user. When she hears something

12:33

that piques her interest, her first move is usually

12:35

to scout around for the relevant subreddit. So

12:38

when she learned that her abortion procedure

12:40

would use a suction tool, Taylor

12:43

wanted to know more. I actually went home and

12:45

looked it up.

12:46

Because I think a lot of times the only images we

12:48

have are like of people who are

12:50

pro-life, who want to show you like pieces

12:53

of gutted fetuses. So

12:56

I didn't look up anything like that, but I was

12:58

able to see like

13:00

an animated version of what

13:03

it looks like when the actual

13:05

surgical tool is in the body and

13:08

it pulls the fetus out.

13:10

A tube would be inserted inside her uterus,

13:13

a pump,

13:14

and then a suction.

13:15

You know, and it made me wonder if the

13:18

kid was alive or not, and if

13:20

it's going to hurt him if they

13:23

used that tool.

13:25

I just thought that there would be a more

13:29

advanced way to

13:32

do it that wouldn't be that gruesome.

13:35

You know, and it made me wonder if it's

13:38

too barbaric or too archaic

13:40

or too violent.

13:44

Taylor had pretty uncomplicated feelings about

13:46

abortion up until now. To

13:48

the extent she'd ever thought about it, she always figured

13:50

that if she did get pregnant unexpectedly, she'd

13:52

go to the Planned Parenthood clinic down the road from her

13:55

apartment. And that would be that.

13:57

But now, she wasn't sure what to do. She

14:00

called her aunt and she said, I don't know

14:02

if I'm comfortable doing this. And she was just like,

14:04

listen, you cannot afford a kid.

14:07

That's just the end of the day. Doesn't matter

14:09

if you think the procedure is barbaric. They do

14:11

it every day. They do. This is a very

14:13

common procedure. This is

14:15

not anything you need to

14:16

be alarmed about. You'll be

14:18

just fine. Her aunt

14:21

reminded her that she didn't have a lot of savings. Her

14:23

new job wasn't a done deal. She still had to

14:26

pass a big exam to keep it. and

14:28

she didn't know how to drive. Taylor

14:30

says it was kind of insulting. She

14:32

called her boyfriend. They were long distance.

14:35

He had just moved to Florida, and the clinic she'd

14:38

picked for the abortion was near where he lived.

14:40

Now,

14:41

on the phone, she told him she was having

14:43

doubts.

14:45

He assured her that was totally normal, and

14:47

he had his own theory to explain her feelings.

14:50

What he was saying was that he felt like because

14:53

he was so far away, maybe the baby

14:55

was away from me to feel more connected to him. Then

14:57

I was just like, what the? I just immediately

15:00

was like, you're not that important to me. I

15:02

think I'm pretty sure I'm still in control

15:03

of how I feel. If I was

15:05

having second thoughts, it would 100% be because

15:08

of me and no one else. You know, like a

15:10

baby is not something

15:12

that you use to feel

15:14

closer to another person. Like it was

15:16

just such a weird thing to

15:19

even suggest like me wanting to emotionally

15:22

connect with him through the baby. And

15:24

that's when I went out for other people's opinions.

15:27

Taylor found herself in the exact same spot

15:29

as Kay in Ohio,

15:31

asking other people what she should do. Like

15:34

Kay, Taylor would soon find herself

15:37

face to face with the anti-abortion movement,

15:39

people who were ready and eager to influence

15:42

her decision.

15:51

When Kay left her appointment at the pregnancy

15:53

center in Ohio, She still didn't

15:55

know it wasn't a regular abortion-friendly

15:57

medical clinic. the staff

15:59

hand.

15:59

her a gift bag. It had a nail file,

16:02

many, many pamphlets, spearmint

16:04

gum to help with nausea and prenatal

16:07

vitamins, which she did think

16:09

was a little bit weird.

16:10

She told them that she was planning to get an abortion.

16:13

It was the way that they described them that

16:15

made me think that they weren't completely

16:18

listening to me because they were like, well, this

16:20

is for the health

16:21

of your pregnancy moving forward and like,

16:24

well, the pregnancy isn't moving forward. Like having

16:27

somebody give me these options

16:30

and almost push the option

16:32

I wanted to the side like

16:34

it wasn't even really like a choice

16:38

that really just like irked

16:40

me and I was like well this is what

16:42

I want and you're not even like

16:44

listening to me like

16:47

I would expect this from

16:49

like a man or something

16:51

but to have other women disregard

16:55

what I was saying was one of the

16:57

most irritating things to me.

17:01

Crisis pregnancy centers have carefully thought

17:03

through all these moves to push people away

17:05

from abortion.

17:06

But for Kay, it actually seemed

17:08

like it was backfiring. It was making

17:11

her more sure that she wanted an abortion.

17:14

When she left, she looked up abortion pills online

17:16

and found Aid Access, an

17:18

organization based in Europe that sends pills

17:21

to all 50 states. Even states

17:23

where abortion is banned. They operate

17:25

in this kind of legal gray area.

17:27

That made Kay nervous, but she put in the order

17:30

anyway.

17:31

She still wanted to know how far along she was, so

17:34

she went back for another scan at the Crisis

17:36

Pregnancy Center.

17:39

People who work at Crisis Pregnancy Centers, they

17:41

see their work as saving lives. That's what they're there

17:43

for.

17:44

I talked to several staffers at centers who told

17:47

me they find immense fulfillment in convincing

17:49

even just one person to keep their pregnancy. And

17:52

part of that is making the best case they can for

17:55

not having an abortion.

17:57

Kay got on the ultrasound table for a second

17:59

time. They asked if she wanted

18:01

pictures. No, thank you, she said.

18:04

They played her something they called a heartbeat.

18:07

Technically, doctors say this is not a heartbeat.

18:10

Kay did not want to hear it.

18:12

I hadn't changed my mind. Like hearing

18:14

that was just like another

18:17

sound for me. And

18:19

the ultrasound tech who knew that

18:22

I did not want to keep this pregnancy asked me if if

18:24

I wanted to take pictures home

18:27

with me and I immediately

18:29

was just like, no, I don't want that.

18:32

And she was just like, well, are you sure? I

18:35

was like, yeah, pretty sure. Like

18:38

I was already angry and then

18:41

having her like question me,

18:44

I was just like, you guys really just aren't

18:46

getting this.

18:48

Again, are you sure you don't want pictures? And

18:50

I was like, yes, I am very sure. I

18:52

plan on getting an abortion

18:54

still. I got my pills

18:57

from 8 Access. I bought

18:59

those, so I'm just waiting for those to get

19:01

to my house. She immediately

19:04

just kind of had this like change

19:07

of demeanor to being

19:09

like completely like defensive. And

19:12

that- In what way when you say defensive? Her

19:15

first thing was, oh, well you should be careful

19:17

because you never know what kind of grade pill

19:19

you're gonna get.

19:21

To be clear, there's no such thing as different

19:23

grade abortion pills, and AIDS access

19:25

has been around for years and is a widely

19:28

trusted source. A

19:30

crisis pregnancy center told Kay how far

19:32

along she was. Six weeks and

19:35

three days.

19:36

That meant a couple of things. First,

19:39

Kay could have tried to get an abortion in a clinic

19:41

in Ohio right after her last appointment,

19:44

had she known. It also meant

19:46

that the week before, a trained sonographer

19:49

should have been able to give her some sense of

19:51

how far along she was.

19:53

With Kay's permission, I reached out

19:55

to the Women's Center. It's called Bella

19:57

Women's Center. They wouldn't give

19:59

me an inter...

19:59

but they said in a statement that they don't talk

20:02

about individual patients because of confidentiality.

20:05

They did say they are aware of the timeline

20:07

pressure that comes with a six-week abortion ban.

20:10

And they added that they are committed to quote,

20:13

full disclosure of the patient's options.

20:17

But as far as Kay was concerned, her

20:19

options were dwindling. Kay

20:21

wanted to take the abortion pills by the time she

20:23

was 10 weeks pregnant, because that's what

20:25

the FDA advises.

20:27

She was probably right around six weeks,

20:29

and the pills could take up to a month to be delivered.

20:33

She was running out of time.

20:35

["The

20:42

The Baby.] Meanwhile,

20:44

in Georgia, while Taylor waited, she fixated on one particular

20:46

question. She couldn't find a satisfying

20:49

answer, no matter how many people she talked to

20:51

or how much research she did online.

20:53

Would the abortion hurt the baby? And

20:55

the only people who have ever said

20:58

abortions actually physically hurt

21:01

babies are people who are pro-life.

21:04

She found an anti-abortion forum online

21:06

and wrote a public message.

21:08

Okay. Hi. Okay,

21:10

let me know. Hi, I'm Pro-Choice. We're

21:13

really having second thoughts about my appointment

21:15

next week. Advice? Question

21:17

mark, question

21:18

mark. She writes that she is now 11 weeks pregnant.

21:21

I've just gotten used to being pregnant and have to fly

21:24

to another state to get an abortion. And

21:26

then what happened? A

21:28

lot of people commented on that post.

21:31

I mean, just like, flooding.

21:34

A lot of them were telling me I could

21:37

give my baby away for adoption. You

21:40

know, any option is better to them

21:42

than to murder, quote

21:44

unquote, your baby.

21:46

Anti-abortion advocates online use

21:48

all sorts of different strategies to sway people

21:51

away from abortion, to

21:52

do everything they can to ensure that pregnancies

21:55

are carried to term.

21:56

Actually, this lady asked me if I

21:58

would do an open adoption. Oh

22:01

wow, like to give it to her. Right.

22:05

How did you feel about that? There's no way I would

22:07

do that.

22:08

I think it was probably a little over 200 comments. People

22:12

were offering me money. People were just like

22:15

super involved in making

22:17

sure I didn't go to my appointment.

22:19

How did it feel to read those things?

22:23

There's always a tone of

22:25

coercion in my opinion, but

22:28

it was nice to read them because you just want to

22:31

hear other people's opinions. Just

22:34

hearing that, it was nice to hear the other

22:36

side of it versus just the answer

22:38

to the abortion. But I had no one else

22:40

that was actually excited for me because

22:43

I will say that in the moment, I really needed

22:45

somebody to connect

22:47

with me about how I was feeling.

22:55

When I first started talking to Kay and Taylor, it

22:57

looked to me like they could be swayed

23:00

by people who desperately wanted to sway them. Kay

23:03

was trying out different decisions, auditioning

23:05

them for her boyfriend. And Taylor

23:07

was seeking out guidance from people she didn't even

23:09

know.

23:10

But then I started thinking, They

23:13

actually were actively deciding what voices

23:15

they wanted to let in, who

23:18

exactly they wanted to be influenced

23:20

by.

23:21

In the middle of one of the most polarized debates

23:24

in America, Kay and Taylor were trying

23:26

to suss out what was right for them.

23:28

So I would read those comments like all day. I

23:31

would read those comments like at night, I would read them

23:33

at work, I would read them when I

23:35

left work. And some of them didn't mean

23:37

anything, but most of them actually meant a lot

23:40

to me. But just

23:42

being able to speak to someone freely and not

23:44

feel like they're

23:46

pushing you to a certain place,

23:49

I mean, they were pushing me,

23:50

but they were also giving me what I asked for, which is a valid

23:53

reason to

23:54

not have an abortion. Ultimately,

23:58

Taylor did go to Florida.

23:59

on a plane to another state for an abortion.

24:02

Her boyfriend picked her up from the airport at 11 p.m.

24:05

And the next morning, it was probably like 6 a.m., but

24:08

my appointment was at like 8. And

24:12

he was just sleeping away. No

24:14

problem, no whatever, but I was

24:16

up. So I kind

24:18

of woke him up a little bit, and we talked.

24:21

And they kept talking

24:22

about their parents, how they were raised, what

24:25

they would want to do the same if they became parents,

24:28

and what they would want to do differently.

24:30

Her boyfriend said he worried his kid would

24:32

struggle in school the same way he had.

24:35

They wondered how much of that was genetic.

24:37

They kept talking and talking.

24:39

Yeah, I kept looking at the clock because it's like, all

24:41

right, it's 6.30. Unless we

24:43

throw our clothes on right now, we're going to be like right

24:45

on time. All right, it's 7. So when it started

24:47

to get like 7.10, 15, 7.30, it

24:51

just kind of worked out in that

24:53

way where we

24:54

just blew through the time and just ignored

24:57

it. Taylor never went to the

24:59

appointment.

25:05

K's pills arrived when she was eight weeks along.

25:08

When K took them, she was in pain, more

25:10

than she'd been expecting, which was

25:12

scary because with all the new laws, K didn't

25:15

feel safe calling a doctor.

25:17

She didn't want to get in trouble. I was

25:19

in a lot of pain. I was cramping.

25:22

I was bleeding.

25:24

I went into

25:27

this little bathroom. And

25:30

I remember being so hot because

25:31

I had

25:34

the light on in the bathroom. The door was closed. So

25:36

this heat was just building up from the light.

25:39

And

25:40

the only thing that I could think of to

25:42

help the pain was a warm

25:44

shower, even though I was

25:47

so hot. And I turned

25:49

the shower on, and I kind of contemplated

25:52

getting in for a few minutes because I was like,

25:55

what if it doesn't help? And I'm just roasting

25:57

myself alive. And

26:00

I ended up just getting in and it was like immense

26:03

relief. It was done. Per

26:06

K. But not for Taylor.

26:16

Caroline Kitchener. As we were putting

26:18

this story together, the legal landscape changed

26:20

a few times in many states including

26:23

Ohio where K lives. Ohio's

26:25

abortion ban was challenged in court. And

26:27

right now there's a temporary injunction, which means that abortion

26:30

is still legal there for up to 22 weeks.

26:33

But abortion pills, like the ones that Kate took,

26:36

may soon be harder to come by, thanks to

26:38

a decision just this week by

26:40

a federal judge in Texas. That decision,

26:43

if it stands, can make abortion pills harder

26:45

to get in other states too.

26:47

Coming up, what happens next

26:49

with Taylor and how

26:51

a video arcade can make almost anything

26:53

feel better? That's in a minute, I'm

26:55

Chicago Bubble Radio,

26:57

when our program continues.

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insurance.

28:02

I'm Kim Barker, host of The Coldest Case

28:04

in Laramie, a show from Serial Productions

28:06

and The New York Times. In 1985, I

28:09

was a high school sophomore in Laramie, Wyoming, when

28:12

a woman was brutally murdered there. The

28:14

crime was never solved. Then a few

28:16

years back, the police arrested someone for

28:18

the murder. A former Laramie cop. His

28:21

DNA was found at the crime scene. But

28:23

then, prosecutors dropped the charges. So

28:25

I went back to Laramie to try to find answers.

28:28

the coldest case in Laramie. Listen, wherever

28:31

you get your podcasts.

28:33

It's This American Life in my Root Glass, today's show,

28:36

nine months later. It's been nine months

28:39

since the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade. Our

28:41

program today is about people who discovered that they were pregnant

28:44

and did not want to be

28:45

right when that ruling came down and

28:47

made abortions largely illegal in their states.

28:50

We're following what's happened to those people in the

28:52

first trimester and now in

28:55

this next part of our show, in the second trimester.

28:59

Back before it fell, the vast number of abortions

29:02

did happen in the first trimester. But

29:04

now, because it can take so long to figure out

29:06

what to do, or for abortion pills to

29:09

come in the mail, doctors say they're seeing

29:11

an increasing number of people seeking abortions

29:13

in the second trimester. There's

29:15

a hotline, the miscarriage and abortion

29:18

hotline, which was started to help patients

29:20

who were taking abortion pills at home. And it's

29:23

beginning a lot more calls from people who are taking pills

29:25

later in their pregnancy than the 10 weeks

29:27

the FDA has approved. Now,

29:30

to be clear, the pills are still safe after 10 weeks,

29:33

but there can be complications. And the

29:35

whole experience can be more intense. People

29:37

call a lot to just say, does

29:39

this sound like it's going okay? Because

29:42

I'm so afraid that if

29:44

I need to get medical care, I'll

29:47

get arrested.

29:48

That's going to Prine, who helped start the hotline,

29:50

talk with us, and with a medical storytelling

29:53

podcast called The Nocturnus about

29:55

what she's been seeing. She said she to

29:57

answer questions from people in first trimester

29:59

abortions.

29:59

About how much bleeding is normal, how do

30:02

they know if the pills worked. But

30:04

now she says at least once a day she'll

30:06

get a call that's very different.

30:07

It's taken them so long to get

30:09

their pills that by the time they use them they're 14

30:12

weeks, 16 weeks, 20 weeks. And

30:16

we get calls about, you know, the

30:19

fetus just came out

30:22

and I don't know

30:24

what to do about the

30:26

tissue that's stuck. How

30:29

do I do this? There's

30:33

the cord or there's, I think,

30:35

the placenta stuck in my cervix

30:37

or, you know, sometimes they don't

30:40

even have, you know, they don't have the

30:41

vocabulary to explain

30:44

what's happening, but they're just like, I

30:46

can tell there's more tissue and I don't know

30:48

how to get it out and what should I do?

30:50

At that point, you have to walk them through a second trimester

30:53

abortion over the phone. This

30:55

is part of what the second trimester looks like now. complicated,

30:59

more frightening. And the people

31:01

we talked to felt very alone. We

31:03

spoke with nearly a dozen people who were looking for abortions

31:06

in the weeks after Roe fell, and so

31:08

many of them could not decide who to trust,

31:11

who to ask for help.

31:12

And

31:13

there's one other thing the people talked about

31:16

when they talked about what they were afraid of. I

31:19

don't know how I would tell my mom. Katie

31:21

had to travel out of state for her abortion. The

31:24

only appointment she could get was the same weekend as

31:26

her college orientation.

31:28

And there was no way of rescheduling it because I wouldn't

31:30

know how to tell my mom of why

31:32

I wanted to reschedule it. Moms.

31:35

There's no figure we heard about more than moms. People

31:39

did not want to have to talk to their moms about

31:41

their abortions.

31:42

But it's hard. The mom

31:45

called all the time, or asked how they were.

31:48

But they needed their mom to drive them across state lines,

31:51

like Brianna, who said she heard

31:53

over 12 hours the car of.

31:55

I

32:00

was like, you're not helping.

32:03

I wish I didn't have to say anything to my mom at all, but I needed

32:06

the childcare. We needed the help for the weekend.

32:09

Ashley had to figure out what to say

32:11

about why she needed to leave town. We

32:14

just lied. She was extremely helpful

32:16

that weekend as far as like, I think she took the

32:18

kids one day so that my husband

32:20

had to work Saturday, but I had to,

32:22

yeah, like lie.

32:25

I could not tell my mom. This

32:28

is Jessica in Texas. Telling

32:30

her that I was pregnant and

32:33

was not sure if I was going to keep it would

32:35

have probably

32:37

devastated her. There's

32:40

one post-row second trimester

32:42

pregnancy that especially drew Caroline in,

32:45

Caroline Kitchener, the reporter from Washington Post that

32:47

we're doing today's show with.

32:49

This particular pregnancy was in Oklahoma, a

32:51

teenage girl named Lillie,

32:53

who couldn't get an abortion without pulling in her parents.

32:56

In this case, her dad. Again,

32:58

here's Caroline. I met Lily

33:00

a few days after she got her positive pregnancy

33:03

test.

33:04

She was 17 years old and well into

33:06

her second trimester.

33:08

I like Lily right away. She was silly,

33:11

made me feel old, but in a super endearing

33:13

kind of way. Lily

33:15

told me she'd known this boy for a while,

33:17

and they had an on-again, off-again thing since sophomore

33:20

year. I

33:21

don't know how to explain it. He's very funny, and

33:23

he's very sweet and very caring. He's

33:25

a little stupid, but that's okay. And

33:28

yeah,

33:29

we had just started hanging out

33:31

again, I think, because we had been going

33:33

to lunch and stuff because at my

33:36

school, we had gotten like 15-minute lunches. And

33:38

then he was like, hey,

33:40

what you doing? And I was like, oh, dear God. And

33:43

then it all kind of just restarted.

33:46

Lily had no idea she was pregnant through

33:49

the entire first trimester.

33:50

She had just graduated from high school, still

33:53

riding high off prom. She

33:55

was making her own money, working at a sandwich shop,

33:58

staying out late with friends. Somewhere

34:00

down the line, she thought she might go to culinary school.

34:03

Or she had an idea for a business that combined her

34:05

two favorite things, tattoos and

34:08

food. She would call it pies

34:10

and pokes.

34:12

Lily's the youngest of five. The older

34:14

siblings have all moved out already, so it's

34:16

just her and her dad in the house together. You

34:19

know

34:20

what you picture when you picture like

34:22

a single divorced dad? like

34:26

he doesn't know how to decorate. We shop

34:29

nightly for meals. He won't go shopping

34:31

for like

34:32

a lot of things to keep the fridge or the pantry

34:35

stocked. We'll just go as we need or

34:37

we'll go buy food at like

34:39

fast food places or go to restaurants.

34:42

And I just think it's hilarious.

34:44

Here's how Lily found out she was pregnant. She

34:47

was at work and she called her dad

34:49

with really bad stomach cramps. They

34:52

ended up in the ER, where they took Lily's vitals

34:54

and took some urine.

34:56

And the doctor came in the room with this weird look on his

34:58

face.

34:59

He asked Lily if she was okay talking with her dad

35:02

in the room. Lily was like, yeah,

35:04

of course, talk about what? He

35:07

told her, you're pregnant. And

35:10

I looked

35:13

at my dad and I remember him And

35:15

I remember him getting

35:18

all shocked and looking

35:21

at me. It was good luck.

35:26

He just looked like he was

35:28

definitely panicking, but trying not

35:30

to show me because he knew I was panicking, because

35:32

I was visibly panicking. How

35:35

were you? Like, what do you think you were doing? Oh, I was crying. I

35:37

was crying immediately.

35:39

That's like I literally instantly started

35:42

just sobbing. It

35:44

turned out she was about 19 weeks along. The

35:48

doctor handed her the test results and

35:50

told her that she could put them in her baby book. He

35:53

kept talking, but Lily was just staring

35:55

at her dad, studying his face.

35:58

I just remember being

35:59

scared. I felt

36:02

shaky and I just

36:04

I kind of wanted to know if he was mad

36:06

at me or really

36:09

just what he was thinking about

36:11

honestly.

36:13

He said nothing

36:15

but at one point he did reach out to hold her hand.

36:18

They left the room, walked to the car

36:20

in silence. As they

36:23

were driving home, Lily said he asked her right

36:25

off the bat, Do you know whose it is? And

36:27

I was like, yeah. And

36:29

he was like, well, whose is it? And I was

36:31

like, um, because I don't

36:33

want to tell him, because he knows the guy. And I was like, oh,

36:36

God.

36:38

And did you? Yeah.

36:41

Then he was like, oh, my God, I should

36:43

have your brothers kill him. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun.

36:46

She rolled her eyes and then the conversation

36:49

was very much over.

36:52

They drove home. She went to her bedroom.

36:55

he went to his. The

37:02

next day, Lily sat in her room while her dad

37:05

went to work. And it really started

37:07

to hit her. She was pregnant, and

37:09

abortion was now illegal in Oklahoma.

37:12

There was no doubt in Lily's mind. She

37:15

wanted an abortion.

37:17

Had she found out earlier in her pregnancy, before

37:20

Oklahoma banned abortion, Lily

37:22

could have driven 30 minutes to a clinic to get one.

37:25

but now she had to find a different way.

37:27

First, she tried clinics in Kansas, but

37:30

the clinic she called told her that she was

37:32

too far along for them to see her. Then

37:35

she tried New Mexico. They didn't

37:37

have appointments for three to four weeks.

37:40

I talked to Lily a whole bunch right around

37:42

this time.

37:43

She was terrified. One clinic

37:45

told her she was so far along they would have to induce

37:48

labor to end the pregnancy. Lily

37:50

told me she couldn't imagine pushing a baby

37:53

out of her 95 pound body. Do

37:56

you think you sounded scared on

37:58

those calls? Probably yeah. I

38:01

was very nervous and I... it

38:05

was not fun to say on the phone repeatedly.

38:09

She kept calling and calling. Eventually

38:11

she found one clinic in

38:13

New Mexico with an appointment the following

38:15

week. She knew she wouldn't

38:17

be able to get there on her own. She

38:20

knew she was going to need her dad. Lily's

38:24

dad is former Air Force. Now he works

38:26

in IT. He loves music.

38:28

Lily likes to describe to describe as dad

38:30

rock. ACDC, Bunchovy.

38:34

He has five kids, three boys and two girls.

38:37

He grew up in a conservative family, believing

38:39

it was wrong to have an abortion.

38:40

Lilly didn't

38:42

know what he would think about her

38:45

wanting an abortion. I was just nervous

38:47

to tell him, honestly. I was

38:49

nervous to see his reaction.

38:52

What were you worried about? I

38:54

just didn't want him to

38:57

be

38:59

disappointed, I guess. A

39:02

few days later, her dad finally asked

39:04

her, so what are you going to do? She

39:08

told him, I'm not going to have

39:10

a kid. He said, you

39:13

know how hard that's going to be now, right? Lily

39:16

knew. Then her

39:18

dad walked out. He said he needed a little

39:20

time to process that information.

39:24

Lily decided in her head that

39:26

what her dad was not saying was that he wanted

39:29

her to keep the baby. It was, it

39:32

was, it was kind of hard because

39:33

like I can handle my dad being mad at me. Him

39:35

being disappointed in me is a whole different story.

39:44

Was he actually disappointed? Did

39:46

he actually not want her to get the abortion?

39:49

What was he thinking when the doctor told them she was pregnant,

39:52

when they drove home that night?

39:54

Lily hadn't asked him. So

39:56

I did. The first thing

39:58

was, who is this kid? Right,

40:00

because there's a butt kicking coming. You

40:03

mean who is this person who impregnated her?

40:06

Yeah, yeah.

40:07

And when she told me, it

40:09

kind of infuriated me a little bit more. Why?

40:13

Well, because so the

40:15

guy had already, he had

40:17

already gotten another like 15, 16 year old girl

40:20

pregnant and had a baby with her.

40:23

So yeah. The

40:27

next thing in my mind is I'm calling the three

40:29

brothers and this is getting handled. That

40:31

was the immediate, you know,

40:33

you've ruined your life. You

40:36

know, you're 17 years old, you're going to have a baby

40:38

now. A, how are

40:41

you going to take care of this baby? You don't even have a job. No,

40:43

I think she was working at that point. You're working at Jersey

40:45

Mike's making minimum wage. You know,

40:47

I

40:48

have just gotten out of finally

40:50

paying off your medical bills for your broken leg,

40:52

which was also the result of a horrible

40:55

decision on your part. What were

40:57

you thinking?

40:58

When Lilly told her dad, Justin, that she wanted

41:00

an abortion, she imagined he was

41:02

angry or upset. But

41:04

he told me he wasn't. He was really

41:06

just surprised. I

41:09

didn't think, knowing Grace, that

41:11

it was gonna be an option for her. Grace

41:14

is his nickname for Lilly. He's always called

41:16

her that. I don't know why, it just,

41:18

that was my first instinct was, she's gonna

41:20

have his baby. I don't know why I thought

41:22

that.

41:23

Cause she, I mean, when she talks

41:26

about it, like there was no room for that. So it's

41:28

interesting that knowing her as well as you do, that's,

41:31

you know, that's kind of where your mind went.

41:33

This may sound terrible, but

41:36

it probably was a result of

41:38

how nurturing she is. You

41:41

know, she doesn't even like to step on spiders. You

41:43

know what I'm saying? So I just never

41:45

thought that that

41:47

would be an option for

41:48

her.

41:51

But Justin quickly moved past shock and

41:53

into action mode. He assumed that

41:56

this was something that he needed to make happen for his

41:58

daughter. The Daily...

41:59

told him she wanted an abortion. Justin

42:02

went to work and researched. He

42:04

looked up clinics. He had no idea

42:06

that Lily, his baby, now

42:08

his anxious and somewhat irresponsible teenager,

42:12

she was way ahead of him.

42:13

I didn't really hear from her much that day. And

42:15

I get home fully, she's laying

42:17

on her bed, she's got her little notebook out,

42:20

she's got some kind of gangsta

42:22

rap going on on the freaking

42:25

Alexa and she's

42:27

called 14 different places.

42:29

She's called the Roe v. Wade Fund. She's

42:32

called everything and she's basically got

42:34

a plan in place and I'm like, oh, wow.

42:37

So you thought you were going to be the one making the phone costs.

42:40

I did. I absolutely did. It

42:42

amazed me because that is not a

42:45

trait she had displayed before and

42:47

her calmness during it. That's what really stood

42:49

out is like she didn't, she didn't panic.

42:51

She wasn't like, oh, dad, help me. She was like, okay,

42:54

well, I gotta call this guy. I gotta call this guy.

42:56

What did you want her to do? What

42:58

decision did you want her to make? That's

43:05

a great question.

43:07

I Think

43:10

if you had to say what was your top choice, I

43:12

would have said yeah keep I

43:15

wanted her to keep the baby

43:17

Why do you think your top choice was for her to

43:19

keep it? That

43:22

is, that's probably a very,

43:26

that probably is very psychologically deep.

43:30

And it probably has to do with Grace

43:33

getting to the point where she's gonna leave

43:35

and feeling,

43:38

you know, all my children are out. Kinsey

43:40

has her own kid, Michael's out there

43:42

in the world doing his thing, Christopher and Brady

43:44

are out in the world. So, Grace is

43:46

all I have left, right?

43:49

that I know

43:50

needs me, right? Like her daily

43:52

survival

43:54

to some degree

43:55

depends on me.

43:57

And I've gone

43:59

almost longer in my life with

44:02

that than without that. So I don't

44:04

know how to be the

44:06

me before the kids, right? I've

44:08

always had, for the last 27 years, always

44:11

had somebody that needed me. So

44:14

I know if Grace has this baby, I

44:16

got another at least 18 to 20 years of being needed.

44:22

And that may be purely selfish,

44:25

But I hope that my

44:27

concern for her outweighed

44:30

my selfishness

44:32

in that situation. Justin

44:37

wasn't sure he could trust his own impulses or

44:39

his own feelings. That's why he

44:41

didn't talk to Lily. To

44:44

her, it seemed like disapproval. But

44:46

Justin was really just trying to give her space, not

44:49

share too much of his own complicated thoughts. He

44:52

knew Lily would have a hard time ignoring anything

44:54

he said. When Lily asked

44:56

him to drive her to New Mexico for the

44:58

abortion, Justin said yes. She

45:01

got in the funds, she'd made the appointment. She

45:04

had a plan. Lily

45:12

was 20 weeks pregnant when she and her dad

45:14

loaded up the car to drive to New Mexico together.

45:17

They stocked up on her favorite road trip snacks, Pringles

45:20

and pudding cups.

45:21

It was their first road trip together, just the

45:23

two of them. And Justin told me

45:26

with everything Lily had been through, he

45:28

wanted to make sure they did something fun

45:30

along the way.

45:32

Which was funny because Lily told me this

45:34

about heading out on that trip with her dad. I

45:37

wanted him to have like at

45:39

least some sort of fun while he was out here. I

45:42

thought it was really sweet that he was trying to make me feel better.

45:45

And I mean,

45:46

obviously it's not fun for me, but

45:49

I know it's not fun to have to see

45:51

your kid. Like I wanted him to have some

45:56

good memory. When

45:58

it was time for the procedure It took two

46:00

days. Because she was so far

46:02

along, the doctor had to insert

46:05

dilation sticks to soften and open

46:07

her cervix.

46:08

Then Lily and her dad went to the hotel.

46:11

And they went back to the clinic in the morning, and

46:13

the doctor used suction to empty the uterus

46:15

for about 20 minutes until the fetus was entirely

46:18

out.

46:19

Lily said the nurse woke her up and told her,

46:22

you're done.

46:23

You are no longer pregnant.

46:25

She immediately noticed that her stomach didn't feel

46:28

full anymore. She said it felt flat

46:30

again. Afterward,

46:33

Lily told Justin she wanted to go to the arcade

46:35

in the mall. She wanted to try the DDR

46:37

machine, but mostly she

46:39

wanted to go because she thought her dad would love it. But

46:42

I was incredibly

46:45

nauseous and like in a bunch

46:47

of pain, but we still went because, you

46:49

know, ball out. So

46:52

she was sick in the car in the parking

46:54

lot when we pulled up in the mall,

46:57

but she was determined that she wanted to go the arcade.

46:59

So I'm like, all right, well, we'll

47:01

go.

47:07

Was there any part of you that was like, really? Like, why

47:09

do you want to do this when you're like, actively sick

47:11

of throwing up? I was just,

47:13

I was kind of proud.

47:16

I'm like, all right, yeah, we're not gonna, yeah,

47:18

a little vomiting gonna stop us from playing some games.

47:20

And after she threw up, she felt better. So

47:23

you know, we're walking around and for a while, it was fun. We're

47:25

playing games, we're winning toys and such.

47:27

We ordered like some, I think we

47:29

were like a pretzel or something, maybe from the little snack

47:31

bar or whatever.

47:32

And we played a bunch of claw games

47:35

and my dad won me a little like duck

47:37

in a hoodie. It's really cute, I still have it. I

47:40

named him Mr. Quacker. Um.

47:43

Ha ha ha.

47:49

But then, Lily started feeling sick

47:52

again. And so we're walking around trying to

47:54

find the bathroom and she's like, I am

47:56

not gonna make it. And I'm like, well then just go hide

47:58

behind one of the arcade machines.

47:59

And she sure enough made it to the side

48:02

of one of the arcade machines and then she just launched

48:05

it. And I'm like,

48:07

yeah, we should probably go ahead and head home.

48:09

I was like, sort of walking away to go find

48:12

a worker to tell someone. Like, hey, I

48:14

just broke on your ground. I'm so sorry.

48:17

My dad, my grown man, dad,

48:19

goes, no, it's fine. They deal with us all the time.

48:22

Let's just leave.

48:23

And we just left. She's

48:25

like, do I need to tell somebody? and I'm like, I'm sure

48:27

they're going to figure it out. Yeah.

48:34

It was an eight hour drive back to Oklahoma.

48:37

They left at 5 a.m. the next morning. Justin

48:39

drove. Lily slept in the passenger

48:41

seat. By

48:43

afternoon, they were home. Back

48:45

to regular life. Back to their routines.

48:49

still just the two of them. Third

48:58

trimester. Now that

49:00

we're nine months out from the Supreme Court decision, this

49:03

first group of people who wanted abortions, but they

49:05

live in states with abortion bans, have

49:07

had time to think about where they landed,

49:10

how these laws affected them,

49:12

people who had very different takeaways. One

49:15

woman in Mississippi told us she thinks her abortion

49:17

saved her life And the laws just stood in her way.

49:21

She had a medical condition that made her pregnancy life threatening.

49:23

A woman in Texas said the

49:25

experience made her swear off men. Another

49:28

woman in Texas said it made her swear off Texas. The

49:30

anti-abortion forces and laws in the state seemed so

49:33

menacing. She didn't even want to reveal that she

49:35

was pregnant on the standard medical form

49:37

that you fill out at the chiropractor's office.

49:39

I didn't want to let anybody

49:41

know I was pregnant. And

49:43

I was afraid that I was gonna be

49:45

reported. I don't know how

49:49

they handle it. People

49:51

were afraid of period apps, for God's

49:53

sakes, putting down that they were

49:55

missing periods.

49:57

She left Texas for months.

50:04

The contrast between Katie told us that the biggest

50:06

after-effect of her abortion and the new laws

50:09

said it led to a lot of awkward conversations with family

50:11

and friends because she didn't want to tell everybody about

50:13

her abortion.

50:14

She wanted to be one of the millions of people who have had abortions

50:17

and were able to put it away, move on, not

50:19

think about it again. This

50:21

was not the year for that. Abortion

50:23

was constantly in the news. People were talking about it

50:25

all the time.

50:26

His roommate talked about how annoying the anti-abortion

50:29

protesters were in the quad. Katie

50:31

wanted to agree, but without disclosing

50:33

too much about her own abortion.

50:35

And I told her that I had a friend

50:38

that had to go to Louisiana and

50:40

Washington and all this stuff because of

50:42

Roe v. Wade got overturned. And if Texas

50:44

didn't have all these laws, like, it would have been so much easier

50:47

on her. But she had to wait so

50:49

long just because of Roe v. Wade.

50:53

For

50:54

Ashley, the new laws dominated

50:57

a lot of her last year. She

50:59

was in the unusual situation that under the abortion

51:01

ban, she left the state to get an abortion.

51:04

And then, months later, she

51:06

discovered she was pregnant again. Everything

51:09

about how she felt about this new pregnancy was

51:11

shaped by that first post-row abortion.

51:14

She'd had her mom watch her three kids when she went out of state, but

51:17

lied to her about where she was going and

51:19

what she was doing. you turn to

51:21

an abortion fund to help pay for it last time

51:23

around. Now pregnant

51:25

again and

51:26

thinking about a second abortion.

51:28

I felt selfish. I felt

51:30

like I was taking, ooh, I

51:33

felt like I was taking the fund resources

51:35

away from the 17 year old who needed it way

51:37

more than me. I just felt horribly

51:39

selfish. And

51:41

I didn't feel like it was a situation

51:44

that I could like put myself and my whole family

51:46

through again. I can't travel

51:49

another 1800 miles and lie to my family

51:51

and my kids

51:52

about where mommy is when

51:55

I have a spot in my van.

51:57

And we have a happy home. And we

51:59

have. love, space, and love.

52:01

So, basically

52:03

I just didn't

52:06

feel like I could do it again and still

52:08

feel good about it. So

52:10

she was keeping the pregnancy.

52:12

Even though her reasons for the first abortion still stood.

52:15

She still had three kids on Medicaid,

52:17

her husband still didn't make enough money, and

52:20

she still did not want to be pregnant.

52:22

Then it made me start to realize like how many mothers

52:24

of multiple children have to

52:26

just pile another kid in there when

52:28

they really didn't want to.

52:30

Sometimes it's people that already have

52:33

a minivan and have the space and have

52:35

the love, which makes us feel

52:37

even worse. But just because we have the

52:39

space and we have the love

52:41

doesn't mean we wanted to do that.

52:50

Which brings us to the most consequential

52:52

result of the new laws. The

52:55

first group of post-robe babies, babies

52:57

who never would have been born if the Supreme Court had not acted

53:00

or not coming into the world. One

53:03

of those babies is Taylor's. You heard

53:05

Taylor earlier, the Reddit nerd in Atlanta

53:08

who flew to Florida for an abortion

53:10

but in the end didn't go to her appointment.

53:13

Caroline has been tracking what's happened since then.

53:16

And that's where we're going to today's show.

53:19

By the time Taylor entered her third

53:21

trimester, she was very alone.

53:24

It happened week by week. When

53:27

she was 13 weeks pregnant, coming home to Atlanta,

53:30

Taylor's mom and sister wanted to celebrate. They

53:33

asked, can we rub your belly? Can

53:35

we throw you a baby shower?

53:38

No and no.

53:40

Taylor was not interested. I

53:42

didn't want people to get me things I didn't want. I didn't

53:44

want my family to feel responsible for something

53:46

that I really didn't plan to do. If I

53:49

was married or something, I'd have a baby shower.

53:51

But this is not the same type of situation. So

53:54

I didn't want to ask anyone for anything.

53:57

It was almost like she had decided this was

54:00

her thing. She got pregnant without

54:02

planning to, so she was going to

54:04

deal with it all by herself.

54:07

Taylor's family was offended, which

54:09

made Taylor want to pull away even more. By

54:12

the time she was around 16 weeks pregnant, Taylor

54:15

and her mom were no longer speaking. Eighteen

54:18

weeks, Taylor and her boyfriend were fighting.

54:21

She wanted him to move back to Atlanta. He wanted

54:23

her to move to Florida.

54:25

They broke up.

54:27

At 22 weeks, Taylor was trying

54:29

to take control of the situation. She

54:31

would buy all the right baby things, line

54:34

them up in all the right spots in her house, a

54:36

mini fridge by the bed to store breast milk, small

54:39

stacks of diapers in every room so she

54:41

could reach every little thing she needed when it was just

54:44

her and the baby. This way,

54:46

she thought, she could do this alone.

54:48

At 24

54:50

weeks, Taylor lost her job. She

54:53

needed to pass a test to keep it. And

54:55

with everything that was happening with the baby, she

54:57

said she just couldn't focus.

55:00

Twenty-five weeks, Taylor asked her

55:02

ex, what role do you want with this baby? He

55:05

said, I want to be involved,

55:08

but there's wanting to be involved and being

55:10

able to. She

55:12

took that to mean

55:14

he's out.

55:23

So as she entered her third trimester, Taylor

55:25

started imagining herself alone in the delivery

55:28

room. She would Uber herself

55:30

to the hospital.

55:31

She scheduled a C-section.

55:34

Four days before the date, I caught Taylor running

55:36

around, getting ready. At

55:39

that point, she said she didn't want anybody with her, especially

55:42

her family.

55:43

Yeah, because I don't want everybody prowling

55:46

me right after the birth, and then

55:48

I don't want everybody in my house at the same

55:50

time.

55:53

you know these are going to be like my first moment

55:56

learning how to be a mom Yeah.

55:58

And I want to do that in front of you.

55:59

anybody either.

56:02

On March 24th Taylor gave

56:04

birth to a baby boy exactly

56:07

to the day nine months after the

56:09

Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade. It

56:12

went so freaking well.

56:15

I called her when she got home from the hospital.

56:18

Let me tell you something the

56:20

weirdest part about it is how

56:23

fast it was it was like 10 minutes that

56:26

they pulled this kid out of me. Like I felt

56:28

pressure. And then the next thing you know, there's

56:30

a fucking kid. It was crazy.

56:33

I don't think there will ever be anything

56:35

that will measure up to how surreal it felt

56:38

to see a child come out

56:40

of your stomach. It's just like,

56:42

whoa, like I created that.

56:45

Like you're just in shock. Like this

56:46

is me. This is all me. I

56:48

created this. And

56:50

he came out with his eyes wide open.

56:53

He's very aware. He's

56:56

beautiful. He's quiet. He's not like

56:58

a normal baby. He's just like a

57:00

super baby. Black, dark black

57:02

hair. He's really perfect.

57:06

If you wanted a kid, he'd be like the

57:08

blueprint.

57:16

In the end, Taylor wasn't alone in the

57:18

hospital. She asked her cousin

57:21

to give her a ride to the hospital. The

57:23

cousin stayed and took a video of the birth. And

57:25

Taylor says the cousin must have called

57:27

other people in the family because the day she gave

57:29

birth. My father came

57:31

same day. He also showed

57:34

up the next day. My mom

57:36

came

57:36

the next day, and

57:39

she stayed the night every night after that.

57:41

And then I also had family that just won't leave. They're

57:43

like, I won't say or do anything. I

57:45

just want to be here, you know? So

57:49

I've come down off of my high horse because

57:51

it's such a huge thing. And

57:53

I think I underestimated probably like

57:56

how huge it was. You know what

57:58

I mean? to relieve. I just

58:00

need to humble myself and be

58:03

okay with people helping me.

58:05

I get like two hours a night of sleep. So

58:08

I

58:09

just needed help, you know? Back

58:12

in his pacifier came out.

58:18

The

58:21

baby wakes up while we're talking. Cole

58:24

Anthony. He's six days old.

58:35

For months,

58:36

I'd been thinking about Taylor and wondering about

58:38

two things. Would she let

58:40

people in once she had the baby? And

58:43

also this question.

58:45

If this,

58:48

if these abortion laws

58:50

were not in effect, like if Roe had not

58:52

been overturned, Do you think you would have this baby

58:54

now?

58:56

No. Wow. How

59:01

does that make you feel?

59:03

It makes me feel bad.

59:05

Makes me feel bad, but I

59:07

know for a fact that

59:09

I've spent so much money on this

59:11

kid. I've had so much anguish. I've

59:14

lost relationships. Had

59:17

to switch jobs. My

59:20

body has changed. my

59:22

mind has changed.

59:26

I kind of underestimated what I would

59:29

have to sacrifice to like totally

59:31

go through with it. And I feel like, although

59:34

my baby is perfect, I

59:37

just,

59:38

just because I have my baby doesn't mean

59:40

that I'm happy that

59:43

well versus way that changed because

59:45

I'm never gonna, you know, my life is never gonna be the

59:48

same. And I don't like that there's

59:50

a piece of it

59:52

that was impacted by a

59:54

force that wasn't myself, you know?

59:57

Like if I just decided to do it, I

59:59

would.

59:59

maybe it'd

1:00:00

be one thing.

1:00:02

But to know that any part of it was

1:00:04

challenged by some outside force,

1:00:07

I mean, it's so messed up.

1:00:10

And although right now everything's happy, giggles,

1:00:13

you know, newborn

1:00:15

stage, like, this is my

1:00:17

life now. Like, my

1:00:20

whole life, not just 18 years. But

1:00:22

this is just, I mean,

1:00:24

things are really going to

1:00:25

change.

1:00:35

There will be some moment, probably

1:00:38

soon, when we'll all just get used

1:00:40

to the idea that people travel hundreds of miles

1:00:42

and cross state lines to get abortions.

1:00:45

That'll just seem normal, if it doesn't already.

1:00:49

It tells me normal that people have second trimester abortions

1:00:51

at home, that some people will panic

1:00:54

and not know what to do with the fetal tissue or

1:00:57

feel too scared to seek medical attention.

1:00:58

At some point in the

1:01:01

future, that fear will not be

1:01:03

remarkable.

1:01:05

And we will also get used to this notion

1:01:07

that for many people, if you

1:01:09

get pregnant in a state where abortion is banned

1:01:12

and you do not want a baby, you

1:01:14

may still wind up with one.

1:01:16

We are rapidly moving into

1:01:18

that future where all of this is normal,

1:01:21

which means right now maybe

1:01:24

the last time we can truly feel how much

1:01:26

has changed.

1:01:28

For the people who wanted abortions nine months

1:01:30

ago, the gap between what was

1:01:32

and what is

1:01:35

is very clear. Caroline

1:01:46

Kitchener.

1:01:46

She's a reporter at the Washington Post.

1:02:01

Even some

1:02:03

never to be found Might

1:02:07

get a funny feeling Some

1:02:11

things been overlooked

1:02:15

But it was journey

1:02:17

forward To

1:02:20

run But

1:02:24

one you too Ashley

1:03:28

Dory says God was like,

1:03:29

Hey, what you doing? And I was like, oh, dear God.

1:03:32

I'm out of glass. Back next week with more

1:03:34

stories of this American

1:03:36

life.

1:04:07

Next week on the podcast of This American Life,

1:04:10

Broadway's longest-running show ever is

1:04:12

finally closing this week. Are

1:04:15

the people who were squeezed into its orchestra pit doing

1:04:17

the exact same thing night after

1:04:19

night for 35 years together?

1:04:22

I was complaining about something which I imagine

1:04:24

was that it was really cold and then someone

1:04:27

else from the orchestra

1:04:28

said,

1:04:31

just so tired of the sound of your voice. This

1:04:34

next week on the podcast, we're on your local public radio

1:04:36

station.

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