Jay Carmona and Tom Barbalet start a pilot discussion. Tom talks about meeting a person recently in a book he wrote more than twenty years ago. Jay talks about her experiences living in an isolated environmentally-centric community. They explore Jay decision to go to university as a means of understanding her childhood environment. Tom talks about car culture and asks about Jay's involvement with 350.org in this context. They discuss simulation and militant atheists as an impact on the carbon climate analysis. Tom takes a little wander through simulation science and turns the discussion to Unitarianism and Quakers in the context of social change. They discuss the nature of rituals in crossing religious boundaries. Tom has to explain Model Rail Radio. [Editor's Note: Unfortunately there is a Skype issue with longer recordings which impacted the end of this recording.]