0:01

from the on

0:06

on roundhouse

0:12

knowledge among on

0:26

on did

0:40

the you have nothing more we

0:43

have nothing it's

0:46

horrible here no one is the

0:48

same nothing nothing here's how people

0:52

seems to want everything that's been

0:54

everything to be fulfilled what

0:58

is happening you're all strangers to me

1:00

right now all of you you're

1:03

embarrassing and you're exhausting

1:12

it's what we always wanted hello

1:14

and welcome to the this had Oscar buzz

1:16

podcast the only podcast by sexually working our

1:18

way through a wealthy family every week on

1:20

this had Oscar buzz will be talking about

1:22

a different movie that once upon a time

1:24

had left the Academy Award aspirations but for

1:27

some reason or another it all went wrong

1:29

the Oscar hopes died and we're here to

1:31

perform the autopsy I'm your host

1:33

Chris file and I'm here as always with

1:35

my sense of dread so foreboding it kills

1:38

my symbolic horse Jory

1:41

I love love a symbolic

1:43

horse symbolic horses are rampant

1:46

throughout Hollywood and filmmaking

1:48

and the symbolic horse

1:50

in this movie I think was a tipping

1:52

point for some of the people who didn't

1:55

like it I think they thought yeah a

1:57

little too heavy-handed however I think I

2:00

think it's fine that it's heavy-handed

2:02

because remove the symbolic horse from

2:04

this movie. Right. And then it's all

2:06

just entirely

2:09

suggestion and

2:11

vibe and sense

2:14

of foreboding without anything

2:17

to actually like hang it

2:19

on. Right. I

2:22

still don't think you can hang it

2:24

on the horse. Like I still feel

2:27

like everything that happens in this movie

2:29

is vibes. Like the horse

2:31

did kind of die of vibes. You know what

2:33

I mean? Like the horse died of bad vibes.

2:37

But I don't know. I think

2:40

not to be like nothing happens in

2:42

this movie, but you do need some

2:45

type of, I think at least for Carrie

2:47

Coons character. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Something to

2:49

tip her skills. Yeah, yeah,

2:51

yeah. Something to like. Yeah.

2:54

You know, when like in life, when

2:57

everything's going wrong, it's not the

2:59

thing that's going wrong that like,

3:01

you know, you end up putting

3:04

all of your weight in. Everything

3:06

is going wrong. Right. It's

3:08

the thing that is extraneous to everything

3:11

going wrong, but could still be bad.

3:13

And then like that is the

3:15

source of all of your pain

3:17

in those situations. Oh, poor Richmond.

3:23

What a good movie, though. I can't wait to

3:25

talk about this movie. I think we're this movie's

3:27

two biggest fans. So I think a lot of

3:29

people really this movie was like 90 percent on

3:31

Rotten Tomatoes. Like this was not, you know, some

3:34

of those reviews, though, are somewhat damning

3:36

in that it is. I

3:39

mean, it was like an 80 on

3:41

Metacritic, too. But there I think especially

3:43

a lot of the Sundance reactions were

3:45

like, what is this movie?

3:47

It was. Sure. You understand why a Sean

3:49

Durkin movie would go to Sundance, but it

3:51

was also maybe the wrong. You know, who

3:53

was all in on this movie is

3:56

our friend and future guest very coming up

3:58

soon. Very future guest. Richard

4:00

Lawson who called it one of the best

4:02

movies of the year which it was. It

4:05

really was. I mean especially in

4:07

the year where we didn't get

4:09

many movies, actually many

4:11

good movies, we'll

4:14

talk about that Sundance though because

4:16

I think. That Sundance is very

4:18

fascinating because Sundance happened in

4:20

the year where we thought it would be a normal

4:22

year and then it turned out to be a very

4:24

not normal year. So throughout

4:26

that not normal year a lot of

4:29

people were looking to what played

4:31

at Sundance because it's already a movie that

4:33

kind of existed in the world. And of

4:36

course there were movies that were held for

4:38

a while most like notoriously

4:40

Zola which you know A24 held for

4:42

more than a full

4:45

year before putting it in

4:47

theaters. Yeah it's

4:49

a fascinating lineup of movies and the thing

4:53

I was listening to the Blank Check

4:55

episode on Mank earlier and they talk

4:58

about the sort of the memory holding

5:00

of a lot of those movies from

5:02

2020 where they

5:05

just exist in this kind of pit

5:08

that we don't always really want to look

5:10

down into you know what I mean? And

5:13

like there it's sort of a year we've

5:15

tried to paper over in a lot of

5:17

ways and so you look

5:19

at even the movies that were very good that year

5:21

you know what I mean? Like even Nomadland

5:24

as a Best Picture winner or Judas

5:26

and the Black Messiah or Minari. Even

5:29

Minari which like Minari was my favorite movie

5:31

of that year and I don't like

5:34

it any less now but nobody really talks

5:37

about Minari right now which is kind of

5:39

you know kind

5:41

of too bad. Also like what is

5:43

Lee Isaac Chung doing and I would

5:46

like him to make it. He's doing

5:48

the Twister sequel. Oh right! So depressing

5:50

I don't care how hot that cast

5:52

is as Joe likes to mention. Here's

5:54

what I will say though the second

5:57

that trailer comes out I guarantee you

5:59

I'm too tweeting it with a

6:01

we're so back comment on it. So

6:03

I don't know, man. I

6:06

talk a big game and yet I

6:08

will be all in on the Twister sequel probably,

6:10

so we'll see. I

6:12

mean, I'll be all in. Two cows. Two, I

6:14

just, you wish that Lee Isaac Chung would get

6:17

to do literally whatever the hell you want. I

6:19

say this about Lee Isaac Chung. I say this

6:21

about Barry Jenkins. Any of these filmmakers who get

6:23

stuck doing weird

6:26

commercial stuff or television, and

6:29

we'll talk about Sean Durkin. Barry

6:31

Jenkins' television is exceptional television that

6:33

clearly he wants it to do.

6:36

Yes, but it

6:39

means that we haven't had a Barry

6:41

Jenkins feature in five years gonna

6:43

be. You know what I mean? Like it's, I

6:47

would trade it. You know what I mean? And that's

6:50

just me. Yeah. But

6:54

that's the reality of the situation these days.

6:56

Sean Durkin will definitely talk about the

6:59

reality of an indie filmmaker who made

7:01

a big splash. And then this is

7:03

his second, Vanessa's second feature nine years

7:06

later. And there's reasons for that. Which

7:08

is almost surprising that the I.M. Claw

7:10

came together so quickly. Well, he's been-

7:12

Because when you have these giant gaps

7:14

and like also he's become more prolific

7:16

in TV recently too. He'd

7:19

been working on that one for a while though. Like

7:21

at least the script for it. Like that was one

7:23

of his ideas and his ideas bang that

7:25

he had been pouring over for a

7:27

while. I'm so excited for

7:30

the I.M. Claw. I can't even tell you. Let's get into

7:32

the I.M. Claw now. Because like the I.M. Claw is one

7:34

of four left. People have started

7:36

to see it. It started to screen. Our good

7:38

friend and former guest Matt Jacobs saw it and

7:40

sent me the best message, best

7:42

I.M. I've ever gotten which is it's

7:45

really good. It's definitely a

7:47

Sean Durkin movie. And then I

7:49

just replied like all caps like

7:51

I knew it. Because that trailer

7:53

came out and everybody was like,

7:55

this doesn't look like a Sean

7:57

Durkin movie. And I knew it.

7:59

I knew. Because the other

8:01

thing is well, we'll talk about

8:03

dead ringers in a little bit But like having

8:05

seen his episodes of dead ringers this year. I'm

8:07

like, he's still got it You know what I

8:10

mean? Like he's still very much You

8:12

know that filmmaker that quasi, you know

8:16

not horror but horror filmmaker and I'm

8:19

excited to see what he does what

8:22

he brings of that quality to

8:24

the iron claw a story that I know very well because

8:26

I watched wrestling in the 90s and The

8:30

character who Jeremy Allen white play is

8:32

Carrie von Eric who was the

8:34

only one of this family of

8:36

wrestling brothers to

8:39

during my Time

8:41

watching the WWF which is now the WWE

8:43

to have wrestled in the WWF, which was

8:46

like the big commercial like Wrestling

8:48

Federation and he was sort

8:51

of a upper mid-level star for a

8:53

while for a

8:55

couple of years and then injury

8:57

kind of derailed that and Then

9:00

ultimately he's one of the it's not a

9:02

spoiler to say like most of those brothers

9:04

died Like that's the whole reason you're telling

9:06

that story This

9:09

sort of family of cursed, you know, but

9:11

his brother, you know, he had already had

9:13

brothers who had died and it's a whole

9:17

It's a dark story But it's also like

9:19

just a very sad and tragic story and

9:21

it'll be very interesting to see what kind

9:23

of sort of haunted Quality Durkin brings to

9:25

it. Like it won't be hard I think

9:27

to bring Some

9:29

of what he does very, you know

9:32

best to that movie. I think

9:34

ever since we heard That

9:37

this was going to be skipping

9:39

the festivals partly because it wasn't

9:41

finished in time for festivals But

9:44

then opening wide on Christmas. Yeah, I

9:46

think While that was

9:48

exciting to us people who like

9:50

Sean Durkin's movie. It was

9:53

also scary because we were like wait

9:55

Is he doing some type of mainstream?

9:58

movie which is why I think, you know,

10:01

hearing from that, that it is very Sean Durkeney

10:04

is a relief. But the other side

10:06

of that coin though, is because at

10:09

least something mainstreamy might have a shot

10:11

at like connecting to audiences. Now

10:13

my worry is that like it's going to get

10:16

disappeared in the Christmas season and completely overshadowed. And

10:18

because all of these, you know,

10:21

precursor awards are

10:24

set, I know they've all seen, you know, anybody

10:26

who's voting for something will have seen it on

10:29

a, in a screening or something like that by

10:31

now. But there is

10:33

a way that like

10:35

late December movies just

10:37

don't get recognition

10:40

or consideration from precursor

10:43

awards. And this is the kind of movie

10:45

that's going to need that kind of buzz

10:48

to make its mark. And

10:52

I hope it can. I

10:54

haven't seen anybody, granted

10:57

like full reviews are still

10:59

under embargo, but there's social sentiments allowed. I

11:01

haven't seen anybody kind of over the moon

11:03

about it in a way that would think

11:05

me to lead that that's going to happen.

11:07

I saw somebody tweet about like, let's not

11:09

forget the iron

11:11

claw as we get into voting for precursors.

11:13

And now I can't remember who it was.

11:16

But yeah, I'm,

11:19

I'm, I'm, I'm very guarded when it comes

11:21

to my hopes for this movie. Because I

11:23

want the world for it. And I think

11:25

it's, I do feel like now

11:28

does seem to be, I mean, hey,

11:30

at least this movie is getting released, which

11:32

is more than Jeff Nichols can say for

11:34

the bike riders. So,

11:37

right. Alas. And I

11:39

mean, it'll be, I'm

11:42

sure Martha Marcy May Marlene got enough

11:44

to be considered a wide

11:46

release at some point, but like, this is

11:49

certainly going to be his release. Yeah. Yeah.

11:52

And that's cool. I'm very curious to see

11:54

where I come down on Sec Efron's

11:57

performance because I have seen trust.

11:59

trusted opinions, people whose

12:03

taste I usually align with and trust

12:05

say that he's very good, and I've

12:07

also seen people whose taste I align

12:09

with and trust say that he is

12:11

not very good. Oh, interesting. So

12:13

I'm very curious. I'm curious

12:16

about his performance too.

12:18

I'm excited for Jeremy

12:20

Allen White and Harris Dickinson. I feel

12:22

like those have a real good... And Holt

12:24

McAllanney, who... I've

12:27

just rewatched Mindhunter recently. So I'm

12:29

very, very much in

12:31

a big Holt McAllanney place, and he's

12:35

so good on that show. And I'm excited.

12:38

And of course, Maura Tierney as the mother.

12:40

I was gonna say, you know I'm excited

12:42

for Maura Tierney, but I have heard not

12:45

a single thing about her performance. I don't think

12:47

her role is that big, is from what I'm

12:49

promoting here. No, probably not.

12:51

I have just recently started, as I texted you

12:53

the other day, started watching the new Brit

12:56

Marling show, A Murder at the End of the World.

12:58

So Harris Dickinson is on that, and he's doing a

13:00

very good job on that. So...

13:03

Joe sent me a text saying he loves

13:05

the Brit Marling show. I resist it all,

13:08

or just to send a pretense to be

13:10

shocked, a meme at him. I'm only two

13:12

episodes into it. So I don't... Loves is

13:15

probably premature, but I'm very into it.

13:17

Like it's hitting all my buttons. So

13:21

I'm very happy to have a new Brit Marling

13:23

show back in my life, just

13:25

to say that. Very

13:27

happy to be closer and closer to... I wish

13:29

we could have recorded this after we've seen The

13:31

Iron Claw, but that would probably mean we would

13:33

be doing it next month. And

13:36

next month we've got other things

13:38

in the store. Other things in

13:40

store, indeed. But yeah. We

13:43

shall see. I'm

13:46

very excited for this movie. Especially

13:50

among the Christmas... The Christmas

13:52

lineup of movies, while

13:55

everybody bemoans the state of the box office,

13:58

we'll see whatever box office... discussion

14:00

gets dropped into our

14:02

fantasy league for

14:05

this episode. But I do think

14:07

that this is a much more

14:09

adult Christmas movie

14:11

going season that I think I'm

14:13

more excited for, the type of

14:15

movies that might have some legs

14:17

to them, the expansion of American

14:19

fiction, poor things, Iron Claws opening,

14:21

Color Purple is opening, Ferrari is

14:23

opening, and then you have

14:27

Aquaman kind of being an afterthought, but I'm

14:29

sure it'll make some money. But all those

14:32

other movies that you're talking about have such

14:34

a wide variance to them. I could see

14:36

all of them doing better

14:38

than expected or worse than expected. And

14:40

it's just- I don't think Ferrari's gonna

14:43

do better than expected, but I'm happy

14:45

it's there. Probably not. But I'm

14:47

more talking about poor things

14:49

in American fiction and the

14:52

Color Purple and that kind of stuff where you can

14:54

see a world in which

14:56

they overperform and you can see a

14:58

world, unfortunately, in which they underperform, which

15:00

will bum me out in all

15:04

those cases, really. It does

15:07

just feel like when you look

15:09

at 90s weekend box office,

15:11

it feels like some type of weekend

15:15

from the 90s. Yes,

15:17

it does. But in the 90s,

15:19

all of those movies would make money.

15:21

And I just want that back.

15:23

I want that reality back. Go to

15:26

one of the movies, people. The

15:29

problem is I can rant and

15:31

rave all I want. Our listeners are not the

15:33

problem. You know what I mean? It's everybody else,

15:35

for God's sake. Make your

15:37

family go see a film this

15:40

holiday season. Make

15:43

that your gift to your good pals at this house. Joe,

15:47

tell our listeners about this at Oscar West

15:50

Turbulent Brilliance. Oh, do you mean our Patreon

15:52

that we've recently launched? And for $5 a

15:54

month, they can get two bonus episodes per

15:57

month. That Turbulent Brilliance? Is that of which

15:59

you say? speak? Yeah.

16:01

Yeah. So, uh, this

16:04

had Oscar buzz, turbulent brilliance. Is there a new

16:06

Patreon for $5 a month? You get two new

16:08

episodes per month. One of those episodes every month

16:10

where it's going to be an exceptions

16:12

episode, which is a movie that for

16:16

all but one or two Oscar nominations would

16:18

have qualified for the main feed of this

16:20

had Oscar buzz. We do not do any

16:22

movies on the main feed that had any

16:24

nominations at all, but you can get a

16:26

couple of Oscar nominations and still be in

16:29

general a disappointment. Recently we

16:31

have talked about Barbara

16:33

Streisand's The Mirror Has Two Faces,

16:35

which was a fascinating conversation. We

16:37

had our good pal Katie Rich

16:39

on to talk about Baz Luhrmann's

16:41

Australia. I think

16:44

we'll all remember our listeners choice episode

16:46

on The Lovely Bones and the

16:49

tomb that that placed in the middle of our house.

16:51

Then for a second episode every

16:54

month we'll be giving what is

16:56

called an excursion episode. And those

16:58

are ones where we travel

17:01

far afield of our normal

17:03

format and talk about not

17:07

movies but movie related ephemera. The

17:09

1996 MTV Movie Awards was a

17:11

recent one. The

17:13

Hollywood Reporter actress roundtables are very

17:15

much fodder for this. We have

17:17

coming up an awards race,

17:20

2023 awards race, state

17:22

of the precursor, state

17:24

of the awards race

17:26

coming up. And I

17:29

imagine we'll have quite a few thoughts. We

17:32

tend to let that kind of bleed into

17:34

our regular episodes anyway, but this is going

17:36

to be a fully dedicated take a look

17:38

at what's happening. We'll be in the middle

17:40

of December precursor season and still have all

17:43

sorts of, you know, all

17:45

sorts of awards season to look forward to. So

17:47

there'll be a lot to talk about there. We

17:49

will hopefully have a lot to talk about with

17:51

regard to Sean Durkin and The Iron Claw if

17:54

things go well for that. So

17:56

like I said, five dollars a month. You'll

17:58

also get things like... You

18:00

can send in questions for our listener,

18:02

our Patreon only mailbag. You can send

18:05

in voicemails that we

18:07

will answer that we are posting

18:09

a few times every month and

18:13

answering your various questions. We have been

18:16

having such a good time, Chris, doing

18:18

that. That's maybe one

18:20

of my favorite developments of the

18:22

Patreon so far. We

18:24

will have polls that you can

18:26

vote in and we are not

18:28

done innovating for the Patreon. So

18:30

we are we're cooking up

18:33

some ideas and 2024 should hopefully be

18:35

a very interesting year

18:37

for the Patreon. So that's why it's important that you should,

18:39

you know, get in now and don't miss a bit of

18:41

it because we're having a great time over there.

18:43

What better during the holiday season

18:45

to do in the season of

18:47

giving where you're giving to everyone

18:49

else? Gift yourself something nice with

18:51

a five dollar subscription to our

18:54

Patreon. As Barbara Streisand and Celine

18:56

Dion sang in the very boring

18:58

song, Tell Him, love

19:00

can be the gift you give yourself. And so

19:02

let this had Oscar buzz be the gift you

19:04

give yourself this holiday season. And

19:06

we should also add as of this

19:08

recording, we have some newly open slots

19:10

on our sponsor level. If you are

19:12

feeling particularly generous and you

19:14

want to give yourself an even

19:17

nicer gift, we have a sponsor

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19:21

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19:23

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19:27

you're going to get to pick

19:29

an episode on the main feed.

19:32

So yeah, keep that in mind.

19:34

Very, very exciting there to sign up

19:36

for this had Oscar buzz, Turbulent Brilliant.

19:39

All you have to do is go

19:41

to our Patreon page at patreon.com/this had

19:43

Oscar buzz. Do it,

19:45

you won't regret it. What's

19:47

the thing that that

19:49

Natalie Portman says in Garden

19:51

State? It'll change your life. It'll

19:54

change your life. Subscribe to this had

19:56

Oscar buzz, Turbulent Brilliant. It will change

19:58

your life. I thought We

20:00

were gonna say what's the thing that Natalie Portman

20:02

says in May December and I was like Well,

20:04

here's a list of five things that knocked me

20:06

off my ass. I come out of her mouth

20:08

in that movie Natalie

20:10

Portman in May December says this

20:12

has Oscar buzz Please

20:17

go subscribe listen to

20:19

the session Tracking

20:23

the lisp throughout the course of that

20:25

movie is so fascinating The way she

20:27

picks it up and then and then

20:29

puts it away Later

20:31

on it's so good the moment

20:33

where she is not the character

20:36

Trying to play the character that

20:38

Julianne Moore is playing but the

20:40

moments that it feels like Natalie

20:42

Portman is trying to do Julianne

20:44

Moore Mind-blowing well and

20:46

also like add into that but the

20:48

the added twist that Natalie Portman has

20:50

a lisp You know what I mean

20:53

in real life like that's the most

20:55

like wild thing. So it's like Acting

20:59

on acting on acting, you know,

21:01

like this like nesting doll. It's

21:03

amazing Listeners if you weren't able

21:05

to catch it in theaters by the time this

21:07

episode airs May December is on Netflix Do yourself

21:09

a treat and watch the best movie of the

21:12

year. It's so good There

21:14

it is your number one of the year.

21:16

That's interesting. No, no, no Nothing's

21:18

pushing it out really in a year that

21:20

I think we've had at

21:23

least three outright

21:25

bona fide masterpieces It's easily

21:28

my number one. There's nothing that's lurking out there

21:30

that you think has the potential to knock it

21:32

out I

21:34

mean at this point. I haven't seen poor

21:36

things. I haven't seen obviously the iron claw,

21:38

but I just I don't Yeah,

21:40

I don't know if anything's gonna do as much

21:43

as yeah that I haven't seen is gonna do

21:45

as much as made I'm excited to see it

21:47

again. There's so many that's very

21:49

it's a rich text It's so interesting that

21:51

some of the reaction to it are like,

21:53

oh, this is Todd Haynes Doing

21:55

like a TV movie like and

21:58

and like part of it is

22:00

intentional, but it's a fantastic work.

22:02

It's a fantastic- Rich

22:05

text. It's a rich, rich text. Yes,

22:07

exactly. The rich text about straight society

22:09

and how- This

22:11

is my favorite Chris Bugaboo here, is that Chris

22:13

is like, this movie is an indictment of straight

22:16

society, which is, I feel like- It is.

22:19

Your highest praise for a movie is if it

22:21

can be an indictment of straight society. I love

22:25

it. There was something recently

22:27

that we talked about where you're like, this

22:29

is about how straight society and the suburbs

22:32

are killing, will kill

22:34

a person. Will

22:36

to live.

22:39

Well, not- Oh, it

22:41

was hereditary. That's right. That was the

22:43

secret message of hereditary, that you

22:46

were like, the suburbs are toxic. The nuclear

22:48

unit is toxic. Right, right, right. Not,

22:51

not some of- The nest

22:54

is a movie- Because speaking of the nest- The

22:57

nest is a movie, I think, I

23:00

wonder if it'll be the only happy

23:02

ending Sean Durkin ever makes and in

23:05

a way, even that's qualified because it's

23:07

like, you go through some shit in

23:09

this movie to get to the happy

23:11

ending, but spoiler alert, the end of

23:13

the movie is literally the family finally

23:15

unified together around the table. And I

23:17

don't feel like that's stuck. It's a

23:19

nuclear unit that is like, oh, thank

23:21

God, they've managed to figure it out

23:23

and stay together. And it's not- I

23:25

mentioned- I don't feel like it's mired

23:27

in a lot of, you know, shit

23:30

I hate. I mentioned that

23:32

our friend Richard Lawson really loved this movie and

23:34

I read his Vanity Fair review last

23:36

night. And he mentioned that, that he

23:38

had seen it at Sundance and it

23:40

had presented itself as

23:43

this very sort of like dark and cynical

23:45

movie. And then he had mentioned that seeing

23:47

it again in the fall after

23:49

the realities of COVID had sort

23:51

of settled in. And he's like,

23:53

I was able to find the

23:56

optimism in that finale where,

23:58

you know, despite all of

24:00

this, you know, happening,

24:03

they are still together. They are still

24:06

in the same room and bonded to each

24:08

other. And no matter, you know, what resentments

24:10

and what sort of, you know, situation

24:12

that they're in, that somehow there is some

24:15

kind of, you know, a twisted

24:17

optimism at the end there. And, and it

24:19

is very apparent when you see that. And

24:21

it's just like, oh, and they mentioned like

24:23

the actors did mention that too, when they

24:26

did press for it, and Durkin mentioned it

24:28

too. And you're right when you compare

24:30

it to the ending of Martha and

24:32

Marcy May Marlene, which is so... Which

24:35

is just like you will never know

24:37

peace again. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Right.

24:40

So I guess we'll see what the Iron Claws ending

24:42

is like, and whether what the tiebreaker is on that

24:44

one. Can't imagine

24:47

that it's going to be a twist.

24:50

But you would think that too, as you're

24:52

watching the nest. So you never really know.

24:54

You never really know. That's what I love

24:56

about him as a filmmaker. He throws you

24:59

those curveballs. These

25:03

two lead performances as well. I think

25:06

Carrie Coon was my best actress winner

25:08

of this year. I,

25:11

now I got to go and see now

25:13

that you've mentioned that, because if

25:16

she wasn't my number one, she was up there.

25:18

Hold on a second. Mm-hmm. Jude

25:22

Law is also great. We've talked at length

25:24

in previous episodes about how the best Jude

25:26

Law is a

25:28

man who's over his head or not as

25:31

capable or smart as he thinks he

25:33

is, but is putting on the veneer

25:35

of capability, etc. Does this

25:37

performance and this role remind you of him

25:39

and I Heart Hukabees or what? Like genuinely?

25:42

One million percent. It's like if his I

25:44

Heart Hukabees character is the underachiever

25:47

but more charming. This is

25:50

the less charming achiever. Yeah,

25:53

basically. Yeah. All

25:55

right. So I'm looking at the... It's nice that

25:57

I have the blankies wiki page that I get.

26:00

can refer to when

26:03

I wonder because I have

26:05

my master list but that sort of has

26:07

kind of gotten

26:10

a little bit more disorganized over the

26:12

last few years. Slowly chipping away and

26:14

picking a master list just that I

26:16

can refer to for the efforts of

26:18

this podcast. Yeah. Yeah, David Sims

26:21

and I both had Carrie Coon in the

26:23

Nest as our number one. Yeah, I was

26:25

Carrie Coon in the Nest, Julia Gardner in

26:27

The Assistant, Frances McDormand in

26:29

Nomadland, Carrie Mulligan in Promising Young

26:31

Woman, and Hailey Bennett in Swallow.

26:33

That was my top five. Great

26:35

call. Hailey Bennett is great in that

26:37

movie. I remember that was like that was a fifth slot

26:39

that I was really, really wrestling with. Well,

26:42

I like badgered you to watch that. Yes,

26:45

you did. Yes.

26:47

She swallows. What if someone swallowed things?

26:51

Yeah, she's tremendous at just being like, like, I'm

26:53

not gonna do that. I'm just holding it up

26:55

to a camera and being like, she's gonna swallow

26:57

this. Makes you want to leap out of your

27:00

skin. Just like a pushpin. Yeah.

27:02

Yeah. Yeah. I'm

27:06

glad I had the, I'm glad I was, I was on the,

27:08

on the ball though with Carrie Coon in the Nest. Like

27:11

there, it's, it's, oh, it's

27:13

such a good performance, but the two of them together, like

27:15

genuinely, it's, it's a

27:17

great, like you said, it's a great flavor of Jude

27:19

Law. People you

27:21

wouldn't think have, would have chemistry, but do

27:23

actually have a lot of chemistry and

27:27

do make sense in this movie. Jude

27:29

Law is at an interesting point in his career when

27:32

he does this movie too. So he, he's on

27:34

an upswing kind of. He came back at least

27:37

into popular culture, even if it was things that

27:39

weren't beloved, like Fantastic

27:41

Beasts and Captain Marvel. Right.

27:44

He's, you know, at least out there

27:47

in the public again. And I think

27:49

people were also like, wait, Jude Law

27:51

is even hotter than before. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

27:54

Yeah. Doing things like young Pope.

27:56

That's right. Oh my God. What

27:59

if you know Pope was young and. and hot. What

28:01

if the Pope Oresbedo? The

28:04

Pope Oresbedo. My

28:07

favorite joke back then that I would say always

28:09

and nobody would ever laugh and probably rightly so

28:11

was when the two Popes came out and I

28:14

would just be like a four

28:16

squad photo of Anthony

28:18

Hopkins, Jonathan Price, Jude Law, and

28:23

who was the second season, Malkovich. And it was

28:25

like one Pope, two Pope, young Pope, new Pope.

28:28

Which, come on, that's

28:30

not bad. That's not bad, you gotta give it to me.

28:34

Listen, there's send horn sounds to Joey, please.

28:37

Do you have like prices right now?

28:40

Trombones, trombones, things there. Tomatoes,

28:43

tomatoes, trombones, trombones. You

28:46

can't say tomatoes, tomatoes on Thanksgiving weekend and

28:48

not have me think I got beans, greens,

28:50

potatoes, tomatoes, chicken, turkey. Have you ever seen

28:53

that? Maybe. Maybe.

28:57

We're doing this live, we're doing this live. I'm

28:59

sending you, I got beans, greens, potatoes, tomatoes and

29:01

you're gonna react to it live on the podcast.

29:03

It's gonna be a moment. Okay. Hold on. Hold

29:05

on. So this was like, this

29:09

was like pre-TikTok but this is sort of like

29:12

the only thing with a TikTok

29:14

ethos. This was like,

29:16

ooh, there we go. Before

29:19

pointing at words, culture became a thing.

29:23

Right, okay.

29:25

So it's

29:28

kind of self-explanatory but for our listeners, there's

29:30

a video and a remix out there of

29:33

a pastor or a

29:35

preacher of some kind and

29:39

her name, shoot, she was on Wendy Williams and

29:43

now, is it

29:45

Shirley Caesar? I think her name is Shirley Caesar. This

29:49

like very notable pastor doing,

29:51

giving this like very like

29:53

theatrical sermon and

29:58

it's so good. that

30:00

it got remixed for social media and

30:02

it is my

30:05

favorite thing. Second

30:07

only maybe to the

30:11

guy who goes into the Wendy's and tries to

30:13

start an argument with the cashier and all the

30:15

other Wendy's clerks come like to her defense, have

30:17

you ever seen that? That one we'll do after.

30:20

That's my favorite. Oh, I've seen the looking one.

30:22

Yeah. I've seen that. Yeah, but this is what

30:24

it's part of. All

30:28

right. So are you watching? Chris

30:30

is watching. Very excited. We'll

30:32

give you a point by point of Chris's face. I

30:41

got these green potatoes, tomatoes,

30:43

lamb, lamb, beans, green potatoes,

30:45

tomatoes, chicken, chicken, chicken, chicken,

30:47

chicken, chicken, Oh,

30:51

yes. Yes. Oh, oh,

30:55

oh, got beans, greens, potatoes, tomatoes, chicken,

30:57

turkey, beans, greens, potatoes, chicken,

30:59

turkey, lamb, lamb, lamb, lamb, lamb,

31:01

This is what Carrie Coon should

31:03

have been dancing. 100%. Yeah. Not

31:05

a cover of Don't Leave Me

31:07

This Way. Yeah. I'll

31:09

edit this into the episode. It's

31:12

so good. Every Thanksgiving I

31:14

have to watch it at least. Enterprising

31:16

listeners, edit Carrie Coon Dancing to this

31:19

song. Please do edit Carrie Coon Dancing

31:21

to I Got Beans, Greens, Potatoes, tomatoes.

31:23

Yes. All right. I'm glad

31:25

we went. I'm glad you got to experience

31:28

that. Everybody should. Okay.

31:31

We should get into the 60 second

31:33

plot. We should. Because if we are

31:35

going so far a field that we

31:37

are doing beans, greens, potatoes, tomatoes. Yeah.

31:39

Yeah. Yeah. We got we got a

31:42

rainy bucket. All right. Okay. So listeners,

31:44

we are here talking about The Nest

31:46

written and directed by Sean Durkin starring

31:48

Carrie Coon, Jude Law, Charlie

31:50

Shotwell, Una Roche, Adil Akhtar,

31:52

Michael Culkin, and Ann

31:54

Reed in one scene. With Ann

31:57

Reed and Michael Culkin, I think

31:59

is is what the credit block is.

32:01

Well, there you go. Yeah. Joseph

32:04

Reed, are you ready with a

32:06

60-second plot description of the nest? So I didn't prepare.

32:09

So this is gonna be another, Joe wings it

32:11

and fails miserably, so this'll be fun. If you

32:13

can't get this in 60 seconds, I don't know.

32:15

I mean, 75 seconds even. All

32:18

right. Not a lot of plot. All right.

32:20

All right, your 60-second plot description for the nest

32:22

starts now. All right, so it's about 1986. Rory

32:26

and Allison are a married couple living in New

32:28

York City with their two kids, and

32:31

he's a, works

32:33

in finance, and talks a good

32:35

game, but she already kind

32:37

of doesn't trust him. And when he

32:39

suggested they move to London to better

32:41

his business prospects, she sort of side

32:43

eyes him, but she goes anyway. And

32:47

they buy this mansion in Surrey that

32:49

is way too big for all of

32:51

them, and it has these dark corridors.

32:54

And it's this big horse farm, and he wants

32:56

her to start a horse farm and

32:59

train horses so that she'll be happy. And he just wants

33:01

them to project this air of success, but it's so empty,

33:03

and he's terrible at business, and they keep

33:05

running out of money. And then all of

33:07

a sudden, the horse dies. And then all

33:09

of a sudden, strange noises happen in the

33:11

house. And then all of a sudden, like

33:14

the kids are all being mean to her,

33:16

and she says, you're like strangers to me.

33:18

And the marriage starts to fall apart, and

33:20

she leaves, she embarrasses him at many dinners,

33:22

and goes and dances to don't leave me

33:24

this way. And they bury the horse, but

33:26

the horse like, unburies itself because of like,

33:28

gas pockets, or also maybe haunting. But what's

33:30

haunting them is capitalism. And the

33:32

kids throw a party, and

33:34

you think something bad's gonna happen, but nothing bad really

33:36

happens. And then Jude Log gets kicked out of a

33:38

taxi because he doesn't have any money, and he has

33:40

to walk all the way home. And by the time

33:42

he shows up, it's morning if they're at the dinner

33:44

table, and everything has gone wrong, but they have breakfast

33:46

together, and you get the

33:49

sense that they're gonna stay together for better or

33:51

for worse, but probably not in this mansion that

33:53

they cannot afford the end. All

33:56

right, just a hair over 30

33:58

seconds over. All right, that's fine. I got

34:01

everything right his mom. I guess I didn't mention

34:03

the fact that like the son is bullied Right.

34:07

The son is bullied Jude Law goes to see

34:09

his mom and you get the sense that like

34:11

this sort of striving to better his class has

34:13

been a thing that's been you know the Driving

34:16

him all this time and he

34:18

doesn't seem like it makes him

34:21

a little bit more If

34:24

not relatable than like pitiable, you know

34:26

what I mean where he's obviously And

34:29

read is really like kind of tough

34:31

on him in a way That's just

34:33

like yeah, you can understand where she's

34:35

coming from because she's yeah, like oh

34:37

you've essentially Up out

34:39

of your life. Yeah But

34:42

then also like you can

34:45

see why you might want to cut out this really woman And

34:48

she Carrie Coon has an interesting relationship with

34:50

her mother who it like at

34:52

one point She's

34:55

like, oh I'm gonna miss you and she's like, of

34:57

course you of course you will she's like I

35:00

can't remember what the full line was but she's like I'm

35:03

a really good time Like it sounds like this is like

35:05

a sudden like like a fun mom When

35:07

you listen plays her mom Wendy Crouston's great.

35:10

It's one scene and she's fantastic And

35:13

so you get all you know, you get a little

35:15

bit of a sense of Carrie Coons upbringing

35:18

and She you know

35:20

did not come from money either and

35:24

but she then has sort of like developed

35:28

a distrust of it in Concert

35:31

with like she's obviously she wears the furs

35:34

and she's you know, she trains the horses

35:36

and all that but she has developed a

35:38

mistrust of Their

35:41

ability to earn and keep this

35:43

money and I think

35:46

that's what we eventually learned too that

35:48

she has Previously bought him out. Yes

35:51

in times before what we've seen in the

35:53

movie, right? And so I think that plays

35:55

into this idea that like this house Plays

35:58

as haunted the thing that Durkin does

36:00

with this movie is he films it like

36:02

a haunted house movie or like a horror

36:05

movie even though nothing actually, the

36:07

text of this movie is not horror.

36:09

They had a very interesting time trying

36:11

to market this movie where everybody tried

36:13

to call this a psychological thriller and

36:15

Sean Durkin is like, stop saying thriller,

36:17

you're going to make people expect a

36:19

thriller and they're not going to get

36:21

it. And I bet

36:23

you this movie- This was early Sundance

36:25

reviews were even disappointed like, this is,

36:28

is this supposed to be a ghost

36:30

story? And they didn't, they just kind

36:32

of didn't- If this had played theatrically,

36:34

if it was in a non-COVID year

36:36

and it played theatrically, the cinema scores

36:38

would have been really bad, I think,

36:40

for this movie. If

36:42

IFC even does cinema score, which

36:45

we'll get into IFC. Yeah, yes,

36:47

yes. And, but I think that's,

36:49

but like, I eat that kind of shit up. You

36:51

know what I mean? Like this is a movie that's

36:53

kind of made for me, that like plays with genre

36:55

that tries to push some kind of overarching feeling of

36:58

dread. And I like that so much better

37:06

than a horror, like a legit

37:08

horror movie that plays

37:11

too reticent to show you the thing. Whereas

37:13

like, give me this instead, give me something

37:15

that is not a horror story, but

37:18

you film it as such because that

37:20

plays into the themes of the movie.

37:23

Oh, it's a drama

37:25

where like a family is

37:28

very close to completely falling

37:30

apart. And rather than everyone

37:32

is, everyone's aware of the

37:34

problems, but rather than the awareness

37:38

that this family could

37:40

like, disintegrate in,

37:43

you know, very short amount

37:45

of time. It's this idea

37:47

of feeling

37:49

something wrong, but

37:52

not knowing what it is. And it

37:54

surrounds you and it like overtakes your

37:56

day and such. And like that feels

37:58

very much like it would work. a

40:00

home you've ever seen. You can't go more than

40:02

like a foot in front of your face before

40:04

it gets too dark to see the end of

40:06

the hall, like that kind of thing. Yeah. Like

40:09

all that's missing is someone walking around with

40:11

a giant candelabra. But

40:14

they can't afford like any

40:16

butlers or anything that this house is

40:18

clearly in need of because of what

40:20

it is. And I think

40:23

as much as it's representative of

40:25

these horror elements, I do think

40:27

that without even, you know,

40:30

I think

40:32

we've seen so many movies about wealth

40:34

and we're going to continue to see

40:36

them because it's, you know,

40:39

economic disparities and like climbing

40:41

up class is

40:44

such a, you know, huge part of our

40:47

like wider culture and conversations we're

40:49

having. But I think that

40:51

this is one of the movies that does

40:53

it best because I feel like it's much

40:55

subtler. It's just being in this space that

40:58

they are not equipped to take

41:00

care of, that they are not

41:03

in the lifestyle of, alone projects

41:05

it. And it's the mansion that

41:07

they chose for the movie couldn't

41:09

have been chosen better because you

41:11

hear, we're going to go live

41:13

in this English estate and it's

41:16

going to be yada yada. And

41:18

you have all of these fantasy versions

41:20

in your head and then they go

41:22

into this house, which like, while stately

41:24

and beautiful is kind of drab. It's

41:27

not, right. It's not the vision you

41:29

see in your head when you think

41:31

of this type of operational lifestyle. Yeah.

41:34

Well, and the fact that like Jude Law buys

41:37

this house because

41:39

of he wants it to,

41:42

he wants to project

41:44

an air of success, not

41:46

only to people he's working with, but like

41:48

mostly to his family. It's not like he

41:50

has business people over to his house ever.

41:53

Those are, that's accomplished via like these fancy

41:55

dinners and whatever. And we'll talk about the

41:57

fancy dinners because like, I

41:59

can't wait. But, um, but the

42:01

house is mostly to project

42:04

this air of success to his wife and to

42:06

his kids and to convince his wife and kids

42:08

that he's doing better than he is and to

42:10

impress them. And that's

42:12

kind of amazing because it's just like, at

42:15

what level, who can you be real with

42:17

in your entire life? You have nobody then

42:19

you're trying to impress everybody.

42:21

You're trying to upsell everybody on,

42:23

you know, your, this vision

42:26

of yourself as success, which is what

42:28

makes me think of Brad stand and

42:30

I heart Huckabee's because that's basically what

42:32

he's doing in that movie. And, um,

42:35

but these dinners, so he'll go out, uh,

42:38

to, you know, business dinners with whoever, and

42:40

he's trying to get them

42:42

to do a deal with him or, or, you know,

42:44

in some way, impress them, whether

42:46

it's his boss or whatever. And

42:49

she, Carrie Coon

42:51

very, very quickly begins

42:54

to realize that like, Oh, there is

42:56

a desperation in my husband that is

42:58

unappealing when it gets into these sort

43:01

of situations. And she kind of fights

43:03

back in this very,

43:05

um, uh,

43:09

sort of like caged kind of way where

43:11

it's just like, okay, well, I can't do

43:13

anything except for act out in

43:16

my dinner order. You know what I mean?

43:18

And so that's that scene where she orders

43:20

like, I can

43:22

embarrass you in public, but yes,

43:25

it's the only thing I can do. She's

43:27

drinking in a

43:30

restaurant. She's ordering and, uh,

43:32

does she call him my

43:34

bride or something? Yes.

43:37

She, she, to the waiter calls him something

43:39

that's like diminishing. And then when the waiter

43:41

sort of starts to glance at him, cause

43:43

she orders like 12 things on the red

43:45

snapper and three bottles of wine. And then

43:47

she's like, don't look at him. I gave

43:49

you our order. Like, you know, and essentially

43:51

just like big dogs, her husband at the

43:53

table, which is amazing. And when

43:55

the waiter arrives at the wine to give,

43:57

you know, the tasting to see if it's

43:59

okay. She drinks it straight from the bottle. And

44:03

especially I think that scene, there's

44:05

a danger in the way that

44:07

this character is written that it

44:09

would be performed ridiculous

44:12

or someone who is maybe

44:14

living too fabulously, she

44:17

could be really absurd. And

44:19

I think there is a, not

44:21

even downplaying, but there is a

44:23

groundedness to what Carrie Kuhn is

44:25

doing that I think is absolutely

44:27

brilliant and makes the

44:29

scene funnier, makes her

44:31

a little scary. But

44:34

it also makes you respect her. For

44:36

her husband and the audience. She's

44:39

a combatant in those scenes. She's not

44:41

just acting out. She's not just like

44:43

flailing. She's a combatant in

44:45

those scenes. She also smokes cigarettes

44:47

with all five of her fingers. Like it's

44:50

amazing. She like has the whole, like, did

44:52

you notice that? The way she smokes was

44:54

just like the whole hand is up to

44:56

her face. And

44:58

her nails haven't gone to

45:00

full Adele or full Streisand,

45:03

but like they're getting there.

45:06

Yeah. And then the one

45:08

dinner where she like flatly laughs in his

45:10

face when he's talking about they want to

45:12

buy a pied-a-terre. And she's

45:14

like, and it genuinely, the laughter does

45:17

feel so much spontaneous because she's like,

45:19

you've got to be fucking kidding me.

45:21

We can't afford anything. And you're talking

45:23

about we're going to get a pied-a-terre.

45:27

And so she leaves the dinner. She

45:30

gives her fur coat away and

45:32

then she walks home and on

45:35

the way she stops into

45:37

this nightclub and gets her whole

45:39

damn life to, I can't

45:41

remember. Poundage in

45:44

and tonics. Yes. Poundage in

45:46

and tonics and dancing to a remix of Selma

45:48

Houston's Don't Leave Me This Way. And

45:52

that and these dreams

45:55

sound drop at the beginning, I'm like, that's

45:57

the only two sound drops I need in

45:59

this. movie. God bless. Meanwhile, she's going through the stuff

46:01

with her horse. He buys her a horse and

46:12

the horse immediately is having problems. And

46:15

it goes through basically like some type of

46:17

seizure and they have to put the horse

46:19

down and they bury it

46:22

on their property. Yes. So

46:25

she's distraught about this and he's

46:28

just distraught that somebody sold him

46:30

a bad horse or whatever. And

46:33

he can't see that his wife

46:35

is funneling all of everything

46:38

that she is upset and anxious

46:40

about into this situation

46:42

with the horse. Right. Which

46:45

is funny because it's a situation that he

46:47

kind of created where

46:50

he brings her to

46:52

England. But she doesn't

46:54

really want to go. Like she says she

46:56

doesn't really want to go. He convinces her

46:58

that they should move to England. He sets

47:00

her up and he's like, you should start

47:02

a horse farm. Like that will be the

47:04

thing that you do to keep yourself busy

47:07

while I am making us a financial

47:09

success. And he

47:11

also wants her to come up with her

47:13

own stream of income because he's probably

47:16

going to need it at some point. But

47:18

he's also given her essentially what

47:20

can be sold or like told as

47:22

like this highfalutin like thing that she

47:25

can say at cocktail parties. Like high

47:27

raise horses, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

47:29

And she immediately disarms that when people

47:32

are like, oh, what do you do?

47:34

And she's like, I shovel shit. Yeah.

47:37

Yeah. Again, she's coming for battle.

47:39

All right,

47:43

Chris, get off your horse. We are here

47:45

to talk about the Vulture movie fantasy league.

47:48

How dare you bring up my dead horse

47:50

again. All due

47:52

respect to the Gotham's, the

47:54

I think precursor season is

47:57

finally here. We have the New York film

47:59

critics. Circle Awards for 2023. And

48:03

they have delivered points. Now here's the

48:05

thing about award points. They

48:08

don't start off very big, right? These are

48:10

20 point and 10 points, you

48:14

know, little chunks that you're gonna get

48:16

for these awards, but they do accumulate

48:19

and they do accumulate. And eventually they're

48:21

gonna be the difference in these

48:23

standings as we go. Chris, top

48:26

line reactions to the New York Film Critics

48:28

Circle Awards for this year. I'm

48:31

so happy about, I mean, I'm happy

48:33

about, I would say most of these

48:35

wins. Say it. Most

48:38

happy for the Franz Rogowski win. Of

48:40

course you are. I mean, especially

48:43

longtime listeners know I am

48:47

over the moon that it looks

48:49

like Lily Gladstone is our front

48:51

runner this year, obviously. For best

48:54

actors, yes. I mean,

48:56

the Franz Rogowski win also made me

48:58

happy that New York is definitely

49:00

gonna go their own way with at

49:02

least one of these categories. I

49:04

think critics groups should always be

49:06

doing something distinctive that says the

49:08

point of view of their membership,

49:10

whatever. I don't wanna see like

49:12

these homogenous winners with critics

49:15

wins and such, but Franz

49:17

Rogowski, one of my favorite performances of

49:19

the year in passages now on movie,

49:23

what a great win. What a great win. And

49:26

was it you that I was talking

49:28

to that observed that like usually this

49:31

group, when they go their own

49:33

way or they make an advocacy pick to

49:36

like draw attention to a performance, they usually

49:38

choose an actress

49:41

or supporting actress. Usually, yeah.

49:43

I think. In lead actor this

49:45

time? I was glad that they decided

49:47

to be adventurous in lead actor. It

49:49

feels like that's not a direction. Usually

49:51

in New York, film critics, their tendency

49:54

as of late has been Regina Hall

49:57

for Best Actress Tiffany Haddish for supporting

49:59

actress. last year with Kiki Palmer for

50:01

supporting actress. And all of

50:03

those are great and wonderful, but I think

50:05

it's really kind of fun and interesting that

50:08

Lily Gladstone winning actress for Killers of the

50:10

Flower Moon, Divine Joy

50:12

Randolph for Holdovers, those

50:15

are, they're not boring, but they are like

50:17

within the realm of what people are predicting

50:19

right now. Yeah, those are performances that are

50:21

going to do well all season long. My

50:23

thing now is I sort of like, much

50:26

as I think Charles Melton and Divine

50:28

Joy Randolph are very deserving winners for

50:31

supporting actor and supporting actress, I do

50:33

hope that there is some variety as

50:35

those critics award, the further critics awards

50:37

go in the supporting categories. I do

50:40

think the, it helps.

50:42

I mean, Charles Melton also won

50:44

Gotham this year. It's debatable how

50:46

much Gotham. But

50:49

I think it's an indication of just like how much people

50:51

are really impressed by that performance. I think he is

50:53

a shoe in for an Oscar nomination. It really does help

50:55

Charles Melton get an Oscar nomination now getting that.

50:59

I think I would be shocked if he doesn't at

51:01

this point. Like I think he could

51:03

not win another precursor Critics Prize and I think

51:05

he could still, he's still going to be solidly

51:08

in there. But

51:11

that's that it shows the Franz Rogowski win for

51:13

passages really shows that like Best Actor is kind

51:15

of in a free

51:17

for all right now. And I kind

51:19

of love that it's Rogowski, Killian Murphy,

51:21

Paul Giamatti. I think Leo's going to

51:23

probably get nominated for Killers of the

51:25

Flower Moon. We had this conversation on

51:27

one of our call-ins over on the

51:29

Patreon that like Best Actor

51:32

is hard to call a front runner

51:34

right now. And like any front runner

51:36

you would maybe place a name on

51:38

does feel arbitrary at this point. But

51:40

yeah, that could change at

51:42

any minute. Interesting

51:45

that Killers of the Flower Moon takes their

51:47

Best Film Prize only four years

51:50

after The Irishman won Best

51:52

Film. Interesting

51:55

if only that my

51:58

thought was because Scorsese had won Best

52:00

Film only four years ago, that they might

52:02

do director for Scorsese this year, but give

52:04

Best Film to an Oppenheimer

52:06

or my prediction at the

52:09

last minute was the Zone

52:11

of Interest, especially

52:13

once they gave International Film

52:15

at Gotham. Yeah,

52:17

Lost International Film's Anatomy of

52:19

a Fall, but to me,

52:21

my reading of the tea

52:24

leaves in American Critics is

52:26

that Zone of Interest seems

52:28

to be the more hardcore

52:30

choice, whereas Anatomy

52:35

of a Fall seems a little bit more broadly

52:37

appealing, whereas the- I imagine

52:39

Anatomy of a Fall will do just fine

52:41

winning International Film Prizes for Critics Awards, even

52:44

though it's not competing for the Oscar. Yeah,

52:47

that's true. The fact that it isn't competing for the Oscar

52:50

is really interesting, but I think that also is a really

52:52

easy consensus movie. I

52:54

like it better than you do, I will

52:56

say. Yeah, yeah. But- I

52:59

don't dislike the movie. I'm just not as over the moon

53:01

with it, and I've accepted I'm not as over the moon

53:03

with it, finally. Though

53:05

I still am a huge fan

53:07

of Sandra Huler's performance. You

53:11

letterboxed recently that

53:14

Justine Triatt is holding Alicia

53:17

Rawakker's Palmdor.

53:21

I think that's where I'm at. At

53:23

least Alicia's or Wes Anderson's.

53:25

I mean- There you go.

53:27

That's how I feel about the- The Suze

53:30

Cans movie. Cans movies. Christopher Nolan wins Best

53:32

Director for Oppenheimer. I think, in

53:34

general, I think Oppenheimer and

53:36

Nolan are still

53:39

probably the front runners, although I definitely think it's

53:41

much more of a scrum than it was before.

53:43

I kind of expected Killers of the

53:46

Flower Moon to get a little bit

53:48

more of a taken for granted reaction

53:50

as of thus far, and right now

53:52

that is not the case. It's still

53:54

very early, but I'm very encouraged by

53:56

both the popular reception to

53:58

Killers and the- critical

54:01

reception. So I still don't think

54:03

it's gonna win Best Director, Best

54:05

Picture, but like it's

54:07

gonna be a big contender. It's gonna

54:09

win something. I who am maybe the

54:11

Oscar Oppenheimer skeptic, I feel

54:14

like I'm the only one. In terms

54:17

of winning things, I think it's gonna get

54:19

a ton of nominations, but in terms of

54:21

like winning Best Picture... I'm gonna end up

54:23

winning a bet with you about something about

54:25

Oppenheimer along the way, I feel like. You

54:28

say this because you're gonna lose our Survivor

54:30

bet. You are going to lose. What's our

54:32

Survivor bet again? Our Survivor bet is if

54:34

Jake makes it to the finale that he

54:36

wins. Oh, I'm winning that. So

54:38

what is... I do agree with losing that $20. What does Jake have to do

54:42

for me to win that $20? Win

54:44

the show? He has to... if he

54:47

makes it... if he... if he doesn't

54:49

make it to the finale, which means

54:51

he gets eliminated next week, then there's

54:54

no bet. But if he is in the

54:56

finale, he went... he has to win for

54:58

you to win $20. He's not...

55:01

What if he makes the final episode but not

55:03

the final Tribal Council? What if he's eliminated before

55:05

the final Tribal Council? I get $20. Okay,

55:08

no. Alright, I'm still... I'm still very

55:10

comfortable with that. So Jake needs to... needs

55:13

to win for me to win the bet. Yes.

55:16

Okay, I'm comfortable with that. If Jake

55:18

goes home basically this week, then

55:21

neither of us lose our money.

55:24

Okay, alright. I think you are

55:26

massively underestimating Jake's appeal with this

55:28

jury. They did not show... I

55:30

think you are massively overestimating his

55:32

esteem within this jury. In

55:34

this past episode, they

55:36

showed a shot of the jurors, Kelly

55:39

and Kendra and

55:41

What's His Face, all were leaning to each

55:43

other being like, I really feel for Jake

55:45

right now. They did not do that for

55:47

nothing. That doesn't mean that they're gonna give

55:49

him a vote for him to win a

55:51

million dollars. I don't think they respect his

55:53

game. I'm just saying. Alright. What

55:57

else about... Speaking of being the

55:59

Oppenheimer's You were the one in our group

56:01

chat who did not think that

56:03

Hoytsev and Hoytsev deserved the best cinematography

56:05

prize. I'm just saying and

56:08

I know other filmmakers have made

56:10

this complaint about Christopher

56:13

Nolan and I just think when you

56:15

watch that movie and the aspect ratio

56:17

can change like multiple times

56:19

within 30 seconds it

56:22

just tries to be crazy and you

56:24

can tell when it switches from regular

56:27

film stock to IMAX film stock in

56:29

a way that like I just find

56:31

as an experience somewhat jarring and I

56:33

say this really really liking that movie.

56:35

That's just like I don't get behind

56:38

and like cinematography. There's so many options

56:40

this year. What

56:42

would you where would you lean cinematography wise?

56:47

Either of Rodrigo

56:49

Prieto's movies.

56:52

Which are May, December and Killers

56:55

of the Flower Moon. No Killers of the Flower

56:57

Moon and Barbie. Oh and Barbie

56:59

what who did May, December? May,

57:03

December is Christophe Blavell. Yes,

57:05

thank you. Because

57:09

Ed Lachman was not available. He

57:12

had like surgery or something. Right.

57:14

His usual DP. What else do

57:16

I have on my long

57:18

list for cinematography? I haven't made my long list

57:21

yet. I might do that this weekend. I

57:24

mean Asteroid City. Sure.

57:27

Something like Zone

57:30

of Interest is as much of it as a

57:32

divisive movie. It is a divisive movie when

57:35

you ask people what they think about how that

57:37

movie was shot. Yeah, yeah.

57:41

And then last one before we move on to

57:43

the box office. 30 seconds

57:47

to make your case for Past Lives

57:49

not sweeping the best first film awards

57:51

like they're going to anyway. There are

57:53

so many. Past Lives is

57:55

absolutely going to be sweet. It won Best Film

57:57

at the goth.

58:00

But it won the first films at New York Film

58:02

Critics. I also think- It is going to steamroll the

58:04

Independent Spirit Awards. It's going to

58:07

steamroll Critics Prizes for Best First Film

58:09

too. Yeah. And I think

58:11

partly because it is a consensus choice.

58:13

I was so happy that A.B. Rockwell

58:15

won the Debut Director Prize at Gotham.

58:19

I love a thousand and one. You

58:22

still have to catch up to it. We've been advocating for a thousand

58:25

and one regularly.

58:27

But there's a lot of other

58:30

options. There's Raven Jackson for all- I

58:32

can never say this title of this

58:34

movie, right? Aldert Rhodes' Taste of Salt.

58:37

Yes. Yes. I

58:40

just think that there's more options

58:43

in this. I mean, I'm

58:46

somewhat passionate about first, you

58:48

know, and rooting for other people. But I

58:50

also think that that's a category that we

58:53

should never have a

58:55

singular move. And

58:58

it seems to kind of happen every year. It does seem

59:00

to kind of happen every year. This

59:02

is why I advocate for it as an

59:04

Oscar category because I think it would encourage

59:07

more variety in

59:09

precursors. Yeah. Yeah.

59:12

All right. Box Office. Let's talk

59:14

about it. Over the Thanksgiving break.

59:16

Over the Thanksgiving weekend. That

59:20

ballad of songbirds and snakes. Really

59:23

like- Still chugging along. It

59:26

had stickier staying power than I thought

59:28

it is right now. As

59:30

of the Thanksgiving weekend, it

59:33

was just on the verge of going over 100. It certainly

59:35

must have gone over 100 by now. Yes.

59:41

Yes. Domestic,

59:44

it's right now at 110 million. It's

59:47

chugging along. Still gonna be

59:49

number two to Beyonce this weekend. Yeah.

59:52

Have you been following that along? I

59:56

haven't tuned out the Beyonce thing, but there is a

59:59

degree of white noise. to every

1:00:01

homosexual around me vibrating

1:00:03

on a Beyonce level. Great

1:00:06

movie. I had a wonderful time. I believe

1:00:08

you, I believe you. Napoleon

1:00:12

beat out Wish over

1:00:14

Thanksgiving, which I think was the big surprise,

1:00:17

just how badly

1:00:20

Wish did, just how bad of a

1:00:22

year Disney is having that

1:00:24

nothing is going well. And

1:00:27

even like long as

1:00:29

hell, a historical epic

1:00:31

is gonna beat out the big

1:00:33

family film of the weekend.

1:00:35

Dave Gonzales, our good friend, who we

1:00:38

of course thank every weekend whose support

1:00:40

we could not adequately- Literally could not

1:00:42

do the show without Dave. Exactly. Mentioned

1:00:44

on Twitter, which is not a novel

1:00:46

observation, but one I think people probably

1:00:49

should be making a little bit more, which

1:00:51

is that like, maybe we

1:00:53

do put this on the fact that Disney

1:00:56

Plus really took away

1:00:58

the theatrical imperative for

1:01:01

people seeing these movies. And my thing

1:01:03

is, especially when you talk about, and

1:01:05

like the pandemic's impact cannot be overestimated.

1:01:07

This was obviously a thing

1:01:10

that like, people couldn't go to the

1:01:12

movies for a very long time. And like, that was a thing.

1:01:14

But when families who

1:01:16

used to spend money

1:01:19

to buy four tickets to see a

1:01:21

show are now paying one price a

1:01:24

month later so that everybody can gather

1:01:26

in the same living room and watch a

1:01:28

movie. Even if you have to pay $30

1:01:30

for rent a movie at all. Even for

1:01:33

PBOD, you're coming out on the losing

1:01:35

end of that. And like, so you have

1:01:37

disincentivized the theatrical, you have overemphasized Disney Plus.

1:01:40

And as many people were saying back

1:01:42

when they were doing it, you are

1:01:44

sacrificing a cash cow in

1:01:46

theatrical in order to prop up something

1:01:49

that does not make you money in

1:01:53

your streaming platform. The vault

1:01:55

no longer exists. And

1:01:58

like, they were gonna open up like. Opening

1:02:00

up the vault is a, you know, the

1:02:03

artificial scarcity that Disney created

1:02:05

was not a thing that most studios did and like,

1:02:07

was not a thing that I probably was happy with.

1:02:09

Like, I don't know if you need to be that

1:02:12

extreme about it in terms of like, we have a

1:02:14

vault or whatever. But creating the

1:02:16

expectation that new movies can just be

1:02:18

like, waited out in the span

1:02:20

of only a few weeks, you

1:02:23

have absolutely like, parents can put their kids

1:02:25

off for a few weeks. Parents

1:02:27

will also wonder, like, but

1:02:30

you have to get out of the house.

1:02:33

Sometimes you have to get the kids out

1:02:35

of the house. Like, I remember having the

1:02:37

conversation, the realization

1:02:41

with my mother, because like, I remember like,

1:02:43

my dad would take me to the movies

1:02:45

on Christmas Eve, when I was a

1:02:47

young kid. And I remember

1:02:50

saying that to my mom. And she's like, Yeah,

1:02:52

how do you think your Christmas wrapped?

1:02:56

Because we had to get you out of the

1:02:58

house. Yeah, so that that could be done. Yeah.

1:03:01

So like, I just wonder what's supplementing

1:03:04

that. Yeah. Well, all

1:03:07

right. Anyway, last thoughts

1:03:09

on we're gonna make this quick update so we can

1:03:11

get you back to the nest because but

1:03:14

everybody's hungry for that nest.

1:03:16

Everybody's hungry for that nest.

1:03:19

Anyway, go and check out

1:03:21

vulture.com/movies dash league to see

1:03:23

current standings you can look

1:03:25

at where you situate yourself

1:03:27

in the general scoreboard in

1:03:30

the Gary's League scoreboard. If

1:03:32

you've made yourself a different league with your friends and

1:03:34

you want to see who is at

1:03:37

the top of the charts for that, go to

1:03:39

it. You can also check out links

1:03:42

to our draft guide and you can

1:03:44

sign up for the newsletter every week.

1:03:47

I am sending out updates

1:03:50

in newsletter form and you can enjoy

1:03:52

that. It's

1:03:54

been a good time. It's been very fun. We are getting into I

1:03:56

think the real fun time of the year

1:03:58

once we hit like golden globe. nominations. We are

1:04:00

going to be off to the race. Which are

1:04:02

next week. Well, this week as of airing, but

1:04:04

you'll hear us talk about it next week. Oh,

1:04:06

also, pertinent to our conversations we've been having in

1:04:08

these updates, Chris, I

1:04:12

think I'm going to be on the right side of history with Wonka. Of

1:04:16

loving it? My

1:04:18

enthusiasm for Wonka appears to be

1:04:20

the right

1:04:24

course of action. I'm hearing good things.

1:04:27

Did you draft Wonka? No, but

1:04:29

I'm just saying that of the

1:04:31

two of us, one

1:04:33

of us was the Wonka skeptic, and

1:04:35

one of us was the Wonka

1:04:37

optimist, and I feel like I am going

1:04:40

to be vindicated. When

1:04:42

you talk about

1:04:44

selective pop-top-top-topism, I

1:04:47

just want to brandish a Wonka

1:04:49

sign in your face. Well,

1:04:53

yes, that is how selective pop-top-topism

1:04:55

works. Yes, but you can talk

1:04:57

about other people's selective pop-top-top-topism, and

1:04:59

like your selective pop-top-topism right now

1:05:01

is Wonka, and I am like,

1:05:03

why are you complaining about that?

1:05:06

My selective pop-top-topism is better, and theirs is worse.

1:05:08

That is, yes, I agree. Yeah, you're right. I

1:05:12

have no pop-top-top-topism to be had about

1:05:15

anything. I am a genuine enjoyer of

1:05:17

things and a genuine dissenter of things.

1:05:21

We don't have time to go into a conversation

1:05:25

about pop-top-topism. I'm just trying to grind your

1:05:27

gears anyway. Yes, you are. Yes, you are.

1:05:29

All right. Anyway, enjoy

1:05:32

our conversation about the nest where Carrie Kuhn grinds

1:05:34

her gears on the dance floor to a cover

1:05:36

of Don't Leave Me This Way and All

1:05:39

Is Right With The World. We'll talk to you next week.

1:05:41

And now I'm the one just walking home. Bye.

1:05:50

That horse-bearing scene, I think

1:05:53

I read somewhere, I did a bunch of reading up on

1:05:55

Sean Durkin, that apparently he

1:05:57

was, like, because he was raised in a

1:05:59

very strange way, in, he was born

1:06:01

in Canada, but he moved to England, but

1:06:03

he's also lived in the United States. He's

1:06:05

sort of moved

1:06:09

around a lot, but I guess I think it was when

1:06:11

he was living in London or in England when he was

1:06:13

a kid, came across in a

1:06:16

field like a mound of

1:06:18

dirt atop a buried horse or whatever

1:06:20

and was never able to sort of

1:06:23

forget that, which I imagine not.

1:06:28

Apparently, I read in one article

1:06:30

that like his real-life mother was

1:06:34

trained horses and his, you

1:06:37

know, his real-life father I think did work in

1:06:39

finance or something like that, so like if there's

1:06:42

some degree of autobiography in the setup to this

1:06:44

movie, I don't think it was quite so harrowing

1:06:46

as it turns out here, but

1:06:48

he had like, he had made Martha Marcy May

1:06:50

Marlene in 2011 because

1:06:52

mostly he was fascinated by things like the Manson

1:06:54

Family Murders and stuff like that, which obviously you

1:06:57

can see in that movie.

1:06:59

He had worked for a

1:07:01

casting director before that. He had sort of

1:07:03

worked as a producer on a bunch of

1:07:05

films. He'd gone to NYU film school and

1:07:07

had formed

1:07:10

this sort of filmmaking

1:07:13

partnership with Antonio Campos and Josh Monde

1:07:15

and sort of they helped each other

1:07:17

with their movies and the

1:07:19

one story about him working with the casting

1:07:21

director on Casting the Holiday, he talks about

1:07:25

accompanying Nancy Meyers to,

1:07:27

I think it's

1:07:29

either they go to Eli Wallach's house or

1:07:31

they invite Eli Wallach to come to

1:07:33

her house and like she has him

1:07:36

like audition essentially for

1:07:38

him, like reading

1:07:41

a scene from the Holiday, which is kind of amazing.

1:07:44

But anyway, so he makes Martha Marcy May Marlene,

1:07:47

he wins the directing award at Sundance. It's

1:07:49

a movie that doesn't end up getting any Oscar nominations,

1:07:52

which is why we have an episode on it, go

1:07:54

back and listen to it. It's a good one and

1:07:57

but he sort of emerges at this

1:08:00

very exciting young

1:08:02

director. And then

1:08:05

in the ensuing nine years, they sort

1:08:07

of get swallowed up. He does this

1:08:09

TV series in England

1:08:12

for Channel 4 called South Cliff with

1:08:14

Sean Harris. And

1:08:16

that takes up some of

1:08:19

this time. And then he spent a very

1:08:21

long time trying to get one of the

1:08:23

competing Janis Joplin biopics off the ground. This

1:08:25

one, around 2017, it sort of got announced

1:08:30

that it was going to be happening. He

1:08:32

was going to be directing Michelle Williams. This

1:08:34

is the Janis biopic that did have the

1:08:36

rights to her music, which is not the

1:08:38

one that Amy Adams was attached

1:08:40

to at one point, which was also

1:08:42

the one that Renee Zellweger was attached

1:08:44

to at one point. This was the

1:08:46

one that had through the years been

1:08:48

attached to people like Iliana Douglas, Lily

1:08:52

Taylor. I'm getting my 90s

1:08:54

indie queens mixed up.

1:08:57

But this Michelle Williams movie was apparently

1:08:59

really got announced in

1:09:01

deadline in all of this.

1:09:04

And I haven't read anything

1:09:06

about how it fell apart.

1:09:08

And just sort of like all Janis biopics do.

1:09:10

All of a sudden, you're just like, oh,

1:09:14

I guess that one. You got to go full

1:09:16

fictional Janis like the Rose to get it made.

1:09:18

There you go. There you go. Or Jackie

1:09:21

Jomp Jomp for 30. That

1:09:25

was such an interesting inside joke. Of

1:09:28

all things, it was like this Janis Joplin biopic that could

1:09:30

never get made. So

1:09:34

that doesn't happen. And then I guess

1:09:36

he pivots to making

1:09:38

the nest, which then gets

1:09:40

first seen at Sundance in

1:09:43

2020. So it is kind of a miracle that we're

1:09:45

only getting, we only have to wait

1:09:47

another three or so years for his next

1:09:49

movie for The Iron Claw. I

1:09:52

think he's a tremendously exciting filmmaker. But he's also

1:09:54

done television. I wanted to talk about Dead

1:09:58

Ringers, which he directed. the first

1:10:03

two episodes and then co-directed the sixth,

1:10:05

which is the final episode, and

1:10:08

was also executive producer on it. So he had,

1:10:11

he seemingly had a, he wasn't

1:10:14

the showrunner, but he had a strong

1:10:16

hand, I think, in developing that

1:10:19

show. The aesthetic of that show

1:10:21

feels very, very Schondurkin. So much

1:10:23

of Dead Ringers is horror

1:10:26

that isn't horror. The second episode of

1:10:28

that show is the

1:10:30

one where, so Rachel

1:10:33

Weis plays the twin gynecologists.

1:10:35

It's a remake of obviously

1:10:37

the Cronenberg movie, which was

1:10:39

based on the book, which was based on

1:10:41

a real life pair of twins. But

1:10:45

so Rachel Weis plays the twin

1:10:47

gynecologist. One is more

1:10:49

altruistic. One is more sort

1:10:51

of terrifyingly immoral, and

1:10:54

they need, they want to start this

1:10:56

birthing clinic that's sort of their dream.

1:10:58

And so to do that, they have

1:11:01

to get financing. And that sort of

1:11:03

leads to these moral compromises that they

1:11:05

have to make, which ultimately leads them

1:11:07

to Jennifer Ely, who

1:11:09

is this like, the kind

1:11:12

of active head

1:11:16

of this Sackler-esque family

1:11:18

that, you know, in the

1:11:20

world of the show has started the, you know,

1:11:23

opioid epidemic. And she

1:11:25

is completely, you know, pitiless to

1:11:28

that and is Jennifer

1:11:30

Ely so fucking good on the show. This is maybe

1:11:32

my number one reason why I want you to watch

1:11:34

this show, Chris. Because I, I mean, I loved her

1:11:36

in the first episode. Fucking freak out. So the second

1:11:38

episode, which Durkin also directed, they go to Jennifer

1:11:42

Ely's home on, I believe

1:11:44

it's Long Island, this, this sort of mansion

1:11:46

on Long Island. And she

1:11:48

meets her whole family

1:11:51

slash like series of hangers on. She's got

1:11:53

a wife. She's got an ex-wife and a

1:11:56

bunch of children. The ex-wife Is.

1:12:00

Remarried to this sort of like

1:12:02

very milk toast man she's got

1:12:04

this lawyer who is terrifying says

1:12:06

that is like artist friends it

1:12:09

is Absolutely It's another one with

1:12:11

the think it's a haunted house

1:12:13

movie that has no actual horror

1:12:15

and at but it is like

1:12:17

absolutely the most terrifying vision of

1:12:19

like a moral wealth that you

1:12:22

could imagine and if so very

1:12:24

shonda concurrently some also directs them

1:12:26

an episode later in the season

1:12:28

where they go to with different

1:12:30

mansion full of you know horrible

1:12:33

old money that like that that

1:12:35

that becomes this horror movie and

1:12:37

for those two episodes alone which.

1:12:40

Can. Kind of do like what's the whole

1:12:42

thing but like you can also watch those

1:12:44

two movies as are those two episodes as

1:12:47

kind of standalone short films and they would

1:12:49

work. The directing is just that's right. You

1:12:51

know some people talk about people who are

1:12:53

like it's to like literally dark like you

1:12:55

and your cat. had to be anything so

1:12:57

I would recommend. May be watching it at

1:12:59

night with the blackout curtains drawn but ah

1:13:01

I'm. Highly, highly recommended. If

1:13:03

so, I've watching that and I'm like

1:13:06

Song Durkin so fuckin' back in what

1:13:08

I mean outbreaks or to watch something

1:13:10

like that Because he produced a bunch

1:13:13

of things to produce that Dave Franco

1:13:15

movie the Rental that I had watched,

1:13:17

he produced arm. He. Was a pretty

1:13:19

strong the eyes of my mother and Christine

1:13:22

them like so like had been you know

1:13:24

doing good work in his of course a

1:13:26

producer before he was a director so in

1:13:28

many ways that's kind of where it's it's

1:13:30

it's you know it's a part of him

1:13:32

write this idea that like he wants to

1:13:34

do his own projects but I think he

1:13:36

probably gets a lot out of helping other

1:13:38

people's projects sort of come to fruition from

1:13:41

a producer or what. kind of cool. So.

1:13:43

I. Don't know. a

1:13:46

monologue ng save up for a

1:13:48

while because i haven't seen the

1:13:50

yeah ah let's talk a little

1:13:52

bit about this to the twenty

1:13:54

twenty sundance because i could mention

1:13:56

this was the coven year so

1:13:58

there's a lot of looking to

1:14:01

Sundance as movies that already exist

1:14:04

that could still be released.

1:14:06

The Nest was among them, I

1:14:08

think, will have a separate IFC

1:14:11

conversation. The Nest is also maybe

1:14:13

harmed in this race by releasing

1:14:16

in September, considering that's like six

1:14:18

months before the Oscars actually happen.

1:14:20

Right, right, right. Yeah. But

1:14:23

it actually is kind of a

1:14:25

good Oscar year for Sundance as

1:14:28

a... It's a great

1:14:30

Sundance in general. I look at this lineup,

1:14:32

and for as much as we talk about

1:14:34

the memory holding of 2020 movies,

1:14:37

this lineup has multiple

1:14:39

movies that I genuinely loved. And I

1:14:41

know there are movies that you loved

1:14:44

even more than I did on

1:14:46

this list too, so I imagine you really like this lineup

1:14:48

as well. But

1:14:50

you get a mix of a lot of

1:14:53

movies that would qualify for our show, but

1:14:55

also movies that did do well with the

1:14:57

Oscars. I mean, The Father famously

1:15:00

debuted here. Menari.

1:15:02

Happy Nari, which wins both the Audience

1:15:05

Award and the Jury Prize ends up

1:15:07

being the only real

1:15:09

thing that A24 kind of

1:15:11

pushes when first cow kind

1:15:13

of in the background. Four,

1:15:15

I believe, of

1:15:18

the five documentary nominees

1:15:20

played here, which

1:15:22

were one of them had

1:15:24

world premiered previously. Time. Was

1:15:27

Dick Johnson a nominee or no? It

1:15:29

was not. Collective

1:15:31

that premiered at the

1:15:33

previous TIFF but played

1:15:35

this festival. You

1:15:38

mentioned Time, also the

1:15:41

Mole Agent and Crip Camp. Other

1:15:44

docs like Boys State that almost

1:15:46

were nominated. Yep, yep, yep.

1:15:49

But obviously Promising Young Woman too,

1:15:52

which I think is the movie

1:15:54

that if the pandemic

1:15:56

hadn't happened, because that movie was also supposed

1:15:58

to come out in April. That probably

1:16:00

wouldn't have any Oscar nominations to its

1:16:02

name in a you know an alternate

1:16:05

history where that where the pandemic never

1:16:07

happens But

1:16:10

I I mean I still really like that movie. I know where

1:16:12

you're in a very Culturally

1:16:15

in a very anti emeralds and outplays right

1:16:18

now. I think people can calm down I

1:16:21

genuinely I've got something like the hatred for

1:16:23

salt burn It's like just because something isn't

1:16:25

good doesn't mean you need to go all

1:16:28

out Like I can understand people not

1:16:30

like salt burn. I like salt burn

1:16:32

with reservations. I like salt burn with

1:16:34

that. I think I I've

1:16:37

been able to sort of slot salt burn into an area

1:16:39

in my mind where I'm good with it. I think it

1:16:42

is a It's

1:16:44

not quite as like slick as

1:16:47

Cruel intentions there is a sort of you

1:16:50

know ephemerality to cruel intentions that was like,

1:16:52

oh, it's like, you know Wb,

1:16:54

you know teen sex whatever But

1:16:58

like that's the kind of level that I'm

1:17:00

that I'm getting enjoyment out of salt burn

1:17:02

And I think there is something that is

1:17:04

really making people come at that movie very

1:17:06

aggressively I think part of it genuinely is

1:17:08

that people in between promising young women in

1:17:10

this movie found out that I'm Rokes and

1:17:12

L Comes from money and are really really

1:17:14

feel like they were taken for a ride

1:17:17

Somehow because that problem with promising young woman to

1:17:19

people had a lot more problems

1:17:22

with promising young woman while

1:17:24

I think People were mad

1:17:26

that she any problem people had with it

1:17:28

were more justified I think with that movie

1:17:30

than this movie because like this movie I

1:17:32

guess some people Salt burn to

1:17:35

me is like a movie that is legitimately

1:17:37

about nothing like it has it is not

1:17:39

about a damn thing There is not something

1:17:41

that you can take away like right intentions

1:17:44

are so muddled right people Like I can't

1:17:46

like that's part of having fun with the

1:17:48

movie. Yes, like what does this say about

1:17:50

class conflict? Who gives a fuck there are

1:17:53

better movies that talk about class conflict than

1:17:55

salt burn? You know, they mean like I don't

1:17:57

I mean, I think I think they think that

1:17:59

the movie trying to say something I

1:18:01

think promising young woman is maybe trying to

1:18:03

say more than salt burn is yeah I

1:18:05

don't I don't know if there's really an

1:18:08

attempt to make some observation like to

1:18:10

the benefit and detriment of the movie

1:18:13

but like sure not it's not some abomination

1:18:15

and I agree with the people who feel

1:18:17

like it's weak in its last act like

1:18:20

the part where he like explains all things

1:18:22

like completely unnecessary

1:18:24

and kind of and like really dumb

1:18:26

no it's a better movie if it's

1:18:28

not explained like we already know

1:18:31

but also like I

1:18:33

don't people

1:18:35

are really really angry and I

1:18:38

don't understand it and I feel like people should

1:18:40

probably but anyway really many villains right now I'm

1:18:42

gonna just like what I got off these I'm

1:18:44

gonna take off a list of the movies from

1:18:47

this Sundance lineup that jump out to me and

1:18:49

you can give me like your quick like obviously

1:18:52

I know you love the 40 year old version

1:18:54

you you it was in my top ten you

1:18:56

were a huge evangelizer of that movie I like

1:18:58

that movie Minari was my number one of that

1:19:00

year I really loved it Miss

1:19:04

Juneteenth really good movie Nicole Bahari

1:19:06

Nicole Bahari great I

1:19:08

was cooler on never really sometimes always than most people

1:19:11

are but like that was a big critical

1:19:14

hit that year I was disappointed by nine

1:19:16

days I really thought I was gonna really

1:19:18

like it that's the

1:19:20

Edson Oda movie with Winston Beatt and

1:19:22

Veggie Beats what's that cool

1:19:25

movie yeah I got some stuff

1:19:27

going on I wanted I wanted more

1:19:29

of it I was bored I think I was bored by

1:19:31

it I loved Palm Springs I know

1:19:33

you didn't really like Palm Springs very much I

1:19:35

didn't love Palm Springs that was so I think

1:19:37

it's such a great uh

1:19:41

uh mainstream comedy um you liked

1:19:43

Shirley quite a bit more than I did

1:19:45

I didn't love Shirley with Shirley Josephine love

1:19:47

Shirley yeah that was not for

1:19:49

me I think you also like Zola a

1:19:51

lot better not a lot better you love

1:19:54

Zola I liked Zola I think I like

1:19:56

Zola a lot I thought I loved Taylor

1:19:58

Page in Zola sure I love

1:20:00

Riley Keons. I thought Riley Keons was incredible.

1:20:03

I think that's a better directed movie

1:20:05

than written. Yeah, that's

1:20:07

probably true. I loved Bloody Nose,

1:20:09

Empty Pockets. Did you ever see that movie? I did

1:20:11

not, but it's something I want to catch up with.

1:20:13

Just sort of faux documentary that was presented

1:20:18

as a documentary, but it was also like

1:20:20

performed. I loved

1:20:22

it. I also loved Boy State. Boy

1:20:24

State is, I think, a tremendous movie.

1:20:26

Yeah, you didn't really love Boy State.

1:20:28

I loved it. I think

1:20:30

it's kind of self-fulfilling in terms of

1:20:32

what it's trying to do

1:20:35

without really bringing much new and interesting. Self-fulfilling

1:20:37

in the way. It's fine. It's

1:20:40

just like the thesis statement of the movie. It's just

1:20:42

like they show up with a camera and they're like,

1:20:44

this is our thesis. It's like, well, you're gonna, you're

1:20:47

gonna fulfill that thesis. Like, I don't

1:20:49

know. Okay. Okay. All

1:20:52

right. Dick Johnson is Dead gave me

1:20:54

such anxiety. One

1:20:57

of the best movies of that year. Incredible.

1:20:59

Yeah, I couldn't get with it then because

1:21:01

of reasons, but maybe I'll like it better

1:21:03

now. Time, Garrett Bradley's Time, I thought was

1:21:06

really great. Incredible. Dream

1:21:10

Horse played a test. It

1:21:12

did, and it didn't come out for another

1:21:15

year, though. Dream Horse. So this Sundance had

1:21:17

the last movie I saw in theaters before

1:21:19

the pandemic, which was Palm Springs. And the

1:21:21

first movie I saw in theaters after the

1:21:23

pandemic, which was Dream Horse. That's amazing. The

1:21:26

Father. I so

1:21:29

liked that movie so much better than I

1:21:31

thought I was going to. I really was

1:21:33

not expecting to like The Father and I

1:21:35

really liked it. I have issues with that

1:21:37

movie, but it's good. Oh God, Four Good

1:21:39

Days, the best original song nominee for

1:21:42

the Diane Warren song. Again, delayed, but

1:21:44

for different reasons. Not

1:21:46

because of the pandemic. Did

1:21:49

you see the Alison Brie Horse

1:21:52

Girl movie? No. That

1:21:54

played at that Sundance. You really like Cajillionaire. One

1:21:56

of these days, I will probably watch Cajillionaire. No,

1:21:58

I'm fine with Cajillionaire. you will

1:22:00

like a trillionaire. Oh that's interesting. Well that's

1:22:03

an interesting little quirk.

1:22:05

I've said that to you before. I like that

1:22:07

movie's okay but I think you would really like

1:22:09

it. I don't think I realized that you only

1:22:11

thought it was okay. That's an interesting recommendation which

1:22:13

is saying I don't really love

1:22:15

this movie. You would probably really

1:22:17

love this movie and I'm really now curious

1:22:19

to see what that says about how you

1:22:21

feel about me. I do think

1:22:24

you would like that movie. I've never seen D.

1:22:26

Rees as the last thing he wanted. Which movie

1:22:30

that we should talk about a memory hole

1:22:32

movie that like even at the time people

1:22:34

were like nope we will not be discussing

1:22:36

Anne Hathaway and Ben Affleck. How is it

1:22:38

supposed to be a disaster? Yes.

1:22:41

I mean I've been like we should do that as

1:22:44

an episode just so that I can see I have

1:22:46

an excuse to watch it. Yeah. We

1:22:50

eagerly await D. Rees' next movie though. Yes

1:22:52

we do. Did you see Liz Garbus's Lost

1:22:54

Girls with Amy Ryan? Amy Ryan's good in

1:22:57

that. I really liked it. Promising

1:22:59

Young Women which we mentioned. Did

1:23:03

you see Paul Bettany and Uncle

1:23:05

Frank? Horrid.

1:23:08

Is it bad? I've never seen it. It's

1:23:10

horrid. The Alan Ball movie? Yeah. Yes. Oh

1:23:12

god. I know you don't

1:23:14

like Wendy. Ben Sightland's Wendy which I can't bring

1:23:16

myself to watch. Yeah like you know the pandemic

1:23:18

was a curse to all of us but a

1:23:20

blessing to that movie. I really liked

1:23:23

Sarah Colangelo's Worth. I thought Sami Tucci is really

1:23:25

good in that movie. I never caught up to

1:23:27

that. I like that. That was one of those

1:23:29

things that like nobody bought it

1:23:31

and then Netflix eventually bought it and

1:23:34

at this point I can't even remember

1:23:36

if it was late pandemic or

1:23:38

not but they didn't really do anything for it.

1:23:41

Oh god this was that uh the

1:23:43

that movie cutie is played at the

1:23:46

Sundance. Remember The Horrible? Yes. It's supposed

1:23:48

to be a good movie but like

1:23:50

all the fucking QAnon psychos. Yep. Oh

1:23:53

my god Brandon Cronenberg's Possessor. One of my favorite

1:23:55

movies of that year. That

1:23:58

movie has problems. I think if I redid my top

1:24:00

10 that year, Possessor should be on

1:24:02

it. That's one movie where

1:24:04

I definitely has stayed

1:24:06

in my memory all the time. I think

1:24:08

especially after seeing Infinity Pool, I'm less inclined

1:24:10

to be generous towards Possessor as I might

1:24:12

have been at the time, but that movie

1:24:15

has a problem. But Andrea Rise

1:24:17

Bro rules in it. Christopher Abbott rules in that

1:24:19

movie too. I love the both of them. I

1:24:21

know you're less of a Christopher Abbott person than

1:24:23

I am, but I like you. I like Christopher

1:24:26

Abbott, but I do also feel like at this

1:24:28

point it's a shtick. I don't

1:24:31

know. I think you're wrong about that. I'm right. Julie

1:24:33

P. Moore loves Gloria. That's my theory. Did

1:24:36

you ever watch The Glorias? Oh

1:24:38

God, I did in fact watch The Glorias. Not

1:24:41

a good movie. Not a good

1:24:43

movie, but we appreciate the swing. Did

1:24:46

you ever see... Sorry,

1:24:51

I just had it and lost it.

1:24:55

I'm literally looking at the list right now. Oh,

1:24:57

The Killing of Two Lovers. I never saw that, but that

1:24:59

was supposed to be good. Yeah?

1:25:02

Okay. Sorry. His

1:25:08

House, which is a movie I keep meaning to

1:25:10

go and watch. That was the horror movie. Good

1:25:12

horror movie. That was on Netflix. Relic,

1:25:15

which I was kind of oversold

1:25:17

on, the Natalie

1:25:20

Erika James movie with Emily Mortimer.

1:25:22

Relic, which did weirdly well this

1:25:24

year. It did well with, I

1:25:26

believe, The Beefas. We'll talk about

1:25:28

The Beefas. It got a national

1:25:31

board of review mention. Yeah. Not

1:25:33

my fave. The Rebecca Hall movie,

1:25:35

The Night House, played at this Sunday

1:25:38

at midnight. I really ended up liking

1:25:40

that. That searchlight held until post. Or

1:25:43

at least the reopening. Kitty Green's The

1:25:46

Assistant, which had opened very limitedly just

1:25:48

before the pandemic hit. I

1:25:50

really liked that a lot. And

1:25:55

of course, The Climb, which is the Miley

1:25:57

Cyrus biopic, The Climb. I

1:25:59

love that movie. I didn't

1:26:01

I did not see it. I was just making a joke um

1:26:05

as I tend to do okay Yeah, um

1:26:07

to be clear. I hated to climb not the

1:26:09

Miley Cyrus. No. I'm there is no Miley Cyrus

1:26:13

Yeah, but the Hannah Montana movie yeah, yeah,

1:26:15

yeah, oh you hated the Hannah Montana movie,

1:26:17

or you know the bicyclist me I hated

1:26:19

the bicycle movie okay. It's not really a

1:26:22

bicycle movie. It's a bro movie. Okay, who

1:26:24

bros who bike They

1:26:26

bike at the beginning of the movie okay um

1:26:29

Insufferable great Sundance lineup. I'm gonna

1:26:32

say it of all the terrible things

1:26:34

about 2020. I think that's a great Sundance lineup all

1:26:36

told Would have loved

1:26:38

to come there and caught Covid from everybody

1:26:40

who was You remember in

1:26:42

like March when like things were just

1:26:44

shutting down and people were like oh

1:26:47

I think I got Covid at Sunday.

1:26:49

I was like no shit fuckers like

1:26:51

dark days dark days indeed all right

1:26:53

um Can

1:26:56

you talk a little bit about the Where

1:26:58

the nest did show yeah throughout

1:27:01

the season it got both two

1:27:03

good Gotham nominations For

1:27:05

the leading performances good for the bad

1:27:07

they both lost however and lost to

1:27:09

Riz Ahmed for sound of metal and

1:27:11

Nicole Buhari for Miss Juneteenth What

1:27:15

are the other nominees? In

1:27:17

lead actor it's Chadwick Boseman for Ma

1:27:20

Rainey John McGarroll for first cow hell

1:27:22

yeah, Jesse Plemons I'm thinking of ending

1:27:24

things and the other actress nominees are

1:27:26

Jesse Buckley I'm thinking of ending things

1:27:28

Francis McDormand in Nomad land and you

1:27:31

and your June for me Nari The

1:27:34

more time I spend away from my thinking of

1:27:36

I'm thinking of any I'm thinking

1:27:39

of ending things the

1:27:41

more I'm I'm

1:27:44

puzzled by my own reaction to it

1:27:46

like I Did

1:27:49

not care for that movie and that's not

1:27:51

a movie you really want to watch during

1:27:55

But like or kind of ever like every once

1:27:57

in a while. I read I remember that like

1:27:59

for as As much as I've loved so

1:28:01

many Charlie Kaufman things, sometimes I'll watch a

1:28:03

Charlie Kaufman thing and I'm just like, absolutely

1:28:07

not. And even

1:28:09

something like Synecdoche, New York, like the first time

1:28:11

I watched Synecdoche, New York, I was in an

1:28:13

angry funk for like a week. I was so

1:28:15

mad that I watched that movie

1:28:17

and it made me feel as like genuinely

1:28:20

depressed. It really, really put me in like

1:28:22

a dark emotional space for like a good

1:28:25

solid week. It made me feel really, really

1:28:27

bad about myself. And

1:28:30

I'm thinking of ending things feels like,

1:28:32

and so I chalk up Synecdoche to

1:28:34

like, that's a very personal project and

1:28:36

like, it's full of genuine feeling and

1:28:38

emotion and good for that and all

1:28:41

that. And then I watch, I'm thinking

1:28:43

of ending things and I'm like, no, sometimes Charlie Kaufman

1:28:45

just wants to make you feel so bad.

1:28:49

And I do feel like sometimes that's the intended

1:28:51

result. I mean, I think

1:28:53

the difference between those two movies, though,

1:28:55

those are pretty feel bad movies. Synecdoche

1:28:57

is a movie about us and I'm

1:29:00

thinking of ending things as a

1:29:03

them movie. It's about them. It's

1:29:05

about, yeah, like, yeah, toxic masculinity

1:29:07

living in their parents basement dudes

1:29:10

who just like, okay, I remember

1:29:12

that that was everything onto women. I

1:29:15

think that is a perspective that I

1:29:17

don't necessarily share about that movie, that

1:29:20

it's about toxic masculinity. But I remember

1:29:22

that was your initial reaction and I'm

1:29:24

kind of fascinated by that take on

1:29:27

it because I don't know. Which is partly why

1:29:29

I'm like, about that movie because

1:29:31

it's just like, we're fucking tired of talking

1:29:33

about this by now. Yeah.

1:29:37

I don't know if that's what I mean. I respect

1:29:39

that movie more than I like it. Yeah.

1:29:44

I do. You know, I have

1:29:46

problems with Jesse Buckley too, but whatever. I

1:29:50

suppose I'll get over them. Can be our

1:29:52

top 10 independent films. This is a very interesting

1:29:54

list full of movies that I don't know if

1:29:56

I remember all of these movies. the

1:30:01

um uh what's his

1:30:03

name who directed palm springs not palm springs

1:30:05

fire island andrew on which i still haven't

1:30:07

seen but i would like to because i

1:30:09

liked fire island yeah i

1:30:12

understand why people love it i

1:30:14

did not interesting um farewell

1:30:16

amore don't know it i

1:30:19

still want to catch up to that that was

1:30:21

a sundance movie but i don't think the no

1:30:23

it is the sundance we're talking about yeah also

1:30:25

an isc release what's it about uh

1:30:28

i believe it's an immigration story it's

1:30:31

currently in the criterion collection okay all

1:30:33

right miss june 19th we

1:30:35

discussed good movie never rarely sometimes always

1:30:37

we discussed relic uh

1:30:39

we discussed not my favorite saint francis i really

1:30:42

liked a lot saint francis is a good

1:30:44

movie that's a good one to catch up

1:30:46

to saint francis highly recommended not to be

1:30:48

confused with what was the horror movie around

1:30:50

that same time saint mod mod saint mod

1:30:53

yeah don't don't don't go trying to see

1:30:55

saint francis and see saint mod instead like

1:30:57

be very very saint francis is a

1:30:59

is a um indie drama

1:31:01

about a young woman sort of

1:31:03

finding her place and uh

1:31:06

saint mod is well in many

1:31:08

ways an indie drama about a young

1:31:10

woman finding her place but it's a

1:31:12

very different place finding her place within

1:31:14

herself and uh i should

1:31:16

rewatch saint mod because i was like ho

1:31:19

hum about it when i saw it oh

1:31:21

interesting and then when it came out everyone

1:31:23

loved it talk about a great jennifer eley

1:31:25

performance yowza yowza um

1:31:28

that's literally any jennifer eley

1:31:30

performance joe okay fine um

1:31:32

we mentioned the climb i made

1:31:35

my joke you didn't get it it was fine um

1:31:37

yeah you didn't laugh at it which is

1:31:39

fair enough um the outpost

1:31:41

what's the outpost uh

1:31:44

it looks like some type of dude

1:31:46

movie i even don't know what this

1:31:48

is and then wolf walkers which was

1:31:50

the vessel through which everybody who was

1:31:52

sick of pixar decided to funnel all

1:31:54

of their um soul

1:31:57

isn't very good walkers is a good movie

1:32:00

Wolf walkers is a good movie, but

1:32:02

people I think were a little like

1:32:04

wolf walkers is so good And soul

1:32:06

is so bad, and it's just like

1:32:08

so a soul is not a good.

1:32:11

I think people possible fine So all

1:32:13

the girls find me Soul

1:32:16

was another movie that I watched in a very

1:32:18

little is an elemental like a lot of elementalist

1:32:21

Yeah, I haven't seen all mental Wolf

1:32:24

walkers is good. It's good But like

1:32:26

I have not thought about wolf walkers once since

1:32:29

I saw that movie the beef

1:32:31

is really like this movie and good because this is

1:32:35

This is British independent cinema at its

1:32:37

finest. Yeah I almost wonder if that's

1:32:39

why the movie didn't get any indie

1:32:42

spirit nominations because it was deemed a

1:32:44

British production maybe It

1:32:47

is possible as possible six beef

1:32:49

a nominations though didn't win any

1:32:51

unfortunately I mean, but it's good

1:32:53

that Durkin is getting a best director citation

1:32:55

somewhere Because like he deserves it and like

1:32:58

cinematography for this movie, of course What

1:33:00

were the big beef of winners that year? Let me

1:33:03

click on in I'm

1:33:06

trying to think of what would have been the big Like

1:33:11

the father I guess maybe let's see That

1:33:14

would make sense. Yeah, oh interesting

1:33:17

that Jude law

1:33:19

loses out to a deal

1:33:21

Akhtar for Um His

1:33:26

co-star co-star from the nest right who

1:33:28

he berates on the on the sidewalk

1:33:31

for the movie Ali

1:33:33

and Eva. Oh I

1:33:35

haven't caught up to that. That's

1:33:37

supposed to be good and his

1:33:39

co-star is I believe

1:33:42

it's I think

1:33:44

she's the daughter in secrets and lies the

1:33:46

other daughter. Oh, oh Very

1:33:49

interesting. That's interesting. Well the

1:33:51

episode about Movies that

1:33:54

I want to catch up to from kovat. Yes,

1:33:56

exactly. Um, Kerry Kuhn

1:33:58

in turn loses her award to

1:34:00

Joanna Scanlon for a movie called After

1:34:03

Love, which I also haven't seen. Future

1:34:05

BAFTA winner Joanna Scanlon for After

1:34:07

Love. It's interesting that that year's

1:34:09

beef has also nominated Katrina Balf

1:34:11

for Belfast a full year ahead

1:34:13

of... As a

1:34:16

lead, which she is. Or no, oh

1:34:18

wait, the Nest, sorry, the Nest competed

1:34:20

the year after. Oh,

1:34:22

got it. That's what it was. So the Nest was competing with

1:34:25

the 2021 movies. That's

1:34:27

why it's also competing with the souvenir.

1:34:29

The souvenir, exactly. After

1:34:32

Love also is the movie that wins

1:34:34

Best British Independent Film. Cinematography

1:34:37

loses to Boiling Points,

1:34:41

which is not a movie I have seen.

1:34:43

This is the movie that when Joanna Scanlon

1:34:45

won the BAFTA, people who weren't paying enough

1:34:47

attention were like, what? And we're like,

1:34:49

yeah, we knew this was going to happen. Did

1:34:51

we? I mean, I was not plugged in.

1:34:55

All right. Well, anyway, good

1:34:57

for the Nest for getting all those nominations. I

1:35:01

think the big thing in terms of

1:35:03

why the Nest had less

1:35:06

of a shot and like this is

1:35:08

not to be shitty or mean, but

1:35:11

it's that it was distributed by IFC. IFC

1:35:13

is not good. Okay, roll up your sleeves.

1:35:16

Both barrels give it to IFC. The

1:35:19

last, unless I

1:35:21

have somewhere missed

1:35:24

a international feature or

1:35:26

documentary because IFC releases a

1:35:28

lot of movies. The

1:35:31

last Oscar nomination that they received was

1:35:33

for Charlotte Rampling in 45 years. That's

1:35:36

almost a decade. This

1:35:39

is not really the place to take a movie

1:35:41

if you want it to get awards, which is

1:35:43

why I was so bummed when

1:35:45

they got Wild Life because

1:35:48

yeah, Carey Mulligan's performance

1:35:50

in that I think we both agree is

1:35:52

really great. We both really like that movie.

1:35:55

And that's another movie where it's like, oh, there

1:35:57

was just nothing for that movie. It

1:36:00

just was not a presence in awards

1:36:03

season. Do they just not campaign? Is that the deal?

1:36:05

Or do they campaign poorly? I mean, I

1:36:07

think it... IFC used to

1:36:09

handle a ton of movies. They've had a lot

1:36:12

of issues this year, and it looked like they

1:36:14

were gonna go under. As of

1:36:16

now, they are distributing the

1:36:19

taste of things this year, which I

1:36:21

think is probably the front-runner to win

1:36:23

international feature just on, like, the movie

1:36:25

and its taste. You

1:36:27

know... Taste. I

1:36:29

think it's gonna be pretty

1:36:33

well for everybody. But

1:36:36

if that movie loses, it's

1:36:38

because it's IFC. I hate

1:36:40

to shoot on them. They put out

1:36:42

stuff that I'm glad they've taken a gamble

1:36:44

on. There

1:36:47

seems to be a lot of issues going on over

1:36:49

there. But they're just not

1:36:51

great at pushing things for awards.

1:36:54

I'm trying to go through their filmography and see

1:36:56

what other movies... They

1:36:58

also had Mary and Cotillard

1:37:00

getting nominated for two days one night.

1:37:02

They had Boyhood. I've previously said if

1:37:05

Boyhood was anywhere else, it would have

1:37:07

more Oscars. Did they do the American

1:37:09

distribution for Bergman Island? Is that right?

1:37:11

Yes. Yeah.

1:37:13

Yes. Masterpiece, Bergman Island, one of my

1:37:15

favorite movies. And again, didn't show up at

1:37:17

all... Like the past decade, one of my favorite.

1:37:19

And didn't show up at all in awards season

1:37:21

that year. That's another one where, like... And it

1:37:24

was well reviewed. You might be onto

1:37:26

something here. MLK... I

1:37:28

think it's going to be their biggest

1:37:30

award success since Boyhood. MLK FBI, which

1:37:32

was so well regarded and then completely

1:37:35

fell flat when it came to the

1:37:37

Oscars. All right.

1:37:39

You're making your case for me, I'm saying.

1:37:44

Sorry, I'm just going back to... We

1:37:46

wish the good people at IFC well,

1:37:48

but it's... I wish anybody who's promoting

1:37:50

independent films well. I want these

1:37:53

movies to be seen and appreciated.

1:37:55

It feels like we are in trying

1:37:58

times for getting... anybody to watch any

1:38:01

kind of movies, especially in theaters.

1:38:03

And it's too bad, because there's a lot

1:38:05

of really good ones out there. So I'll

1:38:08

ask. I think the qualifier that they're doing

1:38:10

for Taste of Things is smart. The

1:38:14

movie is actually gonna get out there

1:38:16

when it's getting the most press attention,

1:38:20

likely for major award wins. And

1:38:23

then they're putting it out in apparently, they're

1:38:25

gonna do a wide release on Valentine's Day,

1:38:27

which I actually think is a good call.

1:38:30

Yeah, I think that is a good call.

1:38:32

Very good. What

1:38:34

other stray notions should we

1:38:37

have? We should mention, I mean, we

1:38:39

talked about how great Carrie Coon is in this movie. Her

1:38:41

career at this point, I wanna talk about,

1:38:44

because like she's in, first

1:38:46

thing that I had ever seen her in was when

1:38:49

she was in Who's

1:38:53

Afraid of Virginia Woolf on Broadway

1:38:56

opposite Tracy- Toni nomination. Yes,

1:38:58

her Toni nomination. And I sort

1:39:00

of famously, infamously, whatever, let's say

1:39:02

infamously, sort of walked away from

1:39:04

that and being like, oh, you

1:39:07

know, her. Part of that is I love

1:39:10

Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf. I don't

1:39:12

love that character. And

1:39:16

so I walk away from that and I'm like, oh

1:39:18

my God, Tracy Letts, oh my God, Amy Morton. And

1:39:21

then I'm like, oh

1:39:23

yeah, Carrie Coon, this woman named Carrie

1:39:25

Coon played Honey. Is

1:39:28

that the girl's, is that the reason? Yeah. But

1:39:32

then of course, she's in The

1:39:35

Leftovers, which blows

1:39:38

my mind so good. I mean, you talk

1:39:40

about like Carrie Coon not being nominated for

1:39:42

things she should be nominated for. Like

1:39:45

The Leftovers didn't get any attention in any

1:39:47

way, which is one of the really two

1:39:49

bad things. One of the

1:39:51

great TV shows of this century.

1:39:54

And she's

1:39:56

the best performer in that

1:39:58

show. let

1:42:00

it die. It's just gonna disappear. It sucks.

1:42:02

Yeah, that's right. We'll get loud about it.

1:42:04

We will get very loud about it. Trust.

1:42:06

Yeah, it's so good. And she's so good,

1:42:08

she's kind of terrifying in it, but also

1:42:10

like, you know, brings the

1:42:12

humanity to it. She's got another Ghostbusters

1:42:15

movie coming out. Nope, nope, we're not

1:42:17

talking about it. Okay,

1:42:19

here's what I will also say. Delete it, delete it

1:42:21

from the air. I finally started

1:42:23

the second season of The Gilded Age this

1:42:26

weekend. And that

1:42:28

is, I mean, you talk about Saltburn

1:42:30

being a movie about nothing. The Gilded

1:42:32

Age is truly blessedly about

1:42:35

not a goddamn thing, while also being about

1:42:37

like 20 different things, but like, kind of

1:42:39

not really about anything. And it is so

1:42:41

much fun to watch. It is pure

1:42:44

pleasure. It is just

1:42:46

watching wonderful actors just,

1:42:49

you know, get

1:42:51

this very kind of like arch,

1:42:54

you know, dialogue, that's

1:42:57

very sort of like Downton Abbey-esque dialogue, but

1:42:59

in this American idiom. And Carrie Coon is

1:43:01

just this like wonderful social climber. Carrie Coon

1:43:03

has these great scenes opposite Donna Murphy, who

1:43:06

is absolute

1:43:08

perfection. There's about 33%

1:43:12

too many characters in that

1:43:14

show. They should probably cut it

1:43:16

down by quite a bit. We

1:43:18

really don't need to know about

1:43:20

most of these people who work

1:43:22

in the below quarters and service

1:43:24

and whatever, sorry to say, but

1:43:27

like, there's just too many characters.

1:43:29

But it is absolute pure pleasure.

1:43:31

I don't like to use the smooth brain thing

1:43:33

too often because I think it does get overused,

1:43:35

but like truly, I do

1:43:37

not have to tax myself

1:43:39

one bit watching The Guild at Age.

1:43:42

I love it so much. It's

1:43:44

a good comparison though, because Saltburn is also

1:43:46

a smooth brain. My

1:43:52

hope for the future with Carrie Coon, because

1:43:54

she is also a theater actress as well.

1:43:56

Still doing stuff with Steppenwolf. She was doing

1:44:00

She was doing Tracy Letts's bug

1:44:03

at Steppenwolf as the pandemic was

1:44:05

happening. Can you imagine being

1:44:08

in that show and hearing reports that

1:44:10

if you are too close to people...

1:44:12

Can you imagine being in that audience?

1:44:14

Because those audiences, I always feel like

1:44:16

those productions are set in the smallest

1:44:19

little black box theater anywhere to make

1:44:21

you feel much more like... Can you

1:44:23

imagine a more stressful production to be

1:44:25

in as an actor as you're hearing

1:44:27

like, oh, you can't kiss people? For

1:44:32

her role, for her performance in Bug, Carrie

1:44:35

Kuhn won what is known as

1:44:37

the Jeff Award? A Jeff Award?

1:44:40

I never knew that that was a thing.

1:44:42

What a fun name. I know it's short

1:44:44

for the Joseph Jefferson Award. Yes. Imagine

1:44:47

winning a Jeff Award. I would love that. I

1:44:50

think that's all up because, and I do believe

1:44:52

I sent this to you. I think

1:44:55

all of the

1:44:58

blood left my body and then

1:45:00

immediately came back with a million

1:45:02

more electrons and my blood felt

1:45:04

electrified. They

1:45:07

did an industry reading of

1:45:09

August O. Sage County. Oh,

1:45:11

right. Who was that? That was

1:45:13

apparently private. If they are going

1:45:15

to be reviving it and she

1:45:17

is in the Amy Morton role,

1:45:21

my God, I will lose my mind. Also this

1:45:23

cast that was at this reading, who knows what's

1:45:25

going to come of this. And

1:45:28

out. Deirdre O'Connell. So

1:45:30

Deirdre O'Connell was definitely the mother

1:45:32

role. Oh my God. Betty

1:45:36

Gilpin. Who is the Julianne

1:45:38

Nicholson role or the Juliette Lewis role? I

1:45:41

don't think roles were specified, but you can

1:45:44

deduce who like Carrie Coon and Deirdre O'Donnell

1:45:46

and Ann Dowd were playing. Yes, right. Josh

1:45:49

Lucas, Morgan Spector,

1:45:52

if anything comes up, Will Brill. Morgan

1:45:55

Spector and Carrie Coon together again after

1:45:58

they're married on the Gilded Age. I mean

1:46:01

this, if this

1:46:03

happens, I will. What did

1:46:05

I just see? Will Brill and, oh, Will Brill

1:46:07

was just here. He is currently he's Roy Cohn

1:46:10

in a fellow

1:46:12

travelers and is quite good. The

1:46:15

show kind of abandoned. Did you like that? I

1:46:19

liked it enough. I

1:46:21