0:00

Viewer advisory: Due to COVID-19 public

0:03

health restrictions, tonight's live broadcast

0:05

of This is Not Your Life has been produced with

0:07

some key staff working from home. We

0:10

thank them for their dedication and appreciate

0:12

your understanding of any technical difficulties.

0:15

This is Not Your Life, celebrating

0:18

the masters of identity theft.

0:21

I'm getting a picture, but I can't hear

0:23

anything. Can you hear me? Hello?

0:25

Hello. Testing. No. I

0:27

don't know. I've got you now. Good

0:30

evening, and welcome to This is Not Your

0:32

Life. Thank you for joining us. Things are obviously

0:35

going to be a little bit different this evening. Because

0:37

of the lockdown, I can't actually go into the studio,

0:40

so I'm now broadcasting from my bedroom,

0:42

but the show must go on so that we can keep

0:45

paying tribute to Australia's finest

0:47

scammers and identity thieves for

0:49

Scams Awareness Week 2020.

0:52

Tonight on This is Not Your Life, our special

0:54

guest is someone you won't have seen

0:56

before, but she's seen you. Well,

0:58

your desktop, at least. She's

1:00

computer hacker and remote access scammer,

1:03

Dev BEEP. Is

1:07

the package playing? I can't

1:09

tell. Is it... As

1:11

the home movies of the BEEP family show,

1:13

Dev was a computer enthusiast from a very

1:16

early age.

1:18

Mum.

1:18

Yes, darling.

1:19

What's your password? Mum?

1:20

Yes, darling.

1:21

What's your mother's maiden name?

1:23

While her sisters were more into sport, Dev

1:25

taught herself how to code on the family PC,

1:28

and when that got too slow for her, Dev

1:30

bought a brand new one.

1:31

The Commodore 64. It has an enormous

1:34

64K memory.

1:36

Using her mother's bank card without permission.

1:39

I was furious. But looking

1:42

back on it, the combination of

1:44

IT skills with a willingness to lie and steal

1:46

has been really important to Dev's

1:49

career as a hacker. We're very proud.

1:50

That early potential has

1:54

certainly paid dividends. Two decades

1:56

later, Dev has raked in millions of other people's

1:58

money, becoming a recognised master

2:00

of what's known as the remote access

2:02

scam. That's what Scamwatch calls it when

2:04

someone contacts you out of the blue and says

2:07

there's a virus or some other IT problem

2:09

on your computer and that they can fix

2:11

it for you by logging onto your

2:13

computer remotely.

2:15

She sounds so helpful on the phone, and

2:17

computers are so hard to understand. How

2:19

would I know if it's got a virus or not?

2:22

I have to ask Dev for help all the time,

2:24

and honestly, even though I'm her mother, I

2:26

can never quite tell whether she's helping me

2:29

or scamming me again.

2:31

Hi, I'm Delia Rickard, Deputy

2:33

Chair of the ACCC. Worrying

2:36

about getting hacked is understandable. Scammers

2:39

like Dev exploit that fear in order

2:41

to hack you. Then they steal your money.

2:43

But Dev Maguire goes even further.

2:46

Even after your money's gone, she'll keep

2:48

accessing your computer to cause more harm.

2:50

If a scammer pretends to offer help for a computer

2:52

problem and asks for remote access,

2:54

they only need access once to get

2:57

everything on your device and steal your

2:59

identity. The financial losses

3:01

can be huge.

3:03

Remote access scams are the third largest

3:06

cause of financial loss from scams reported

3:08

by Australians over 65 years

3:10

of age.

3:16

Like I said, we're so proud.

3:16

Dev has pretended to be from the help desk of some of Australia's most recognised

3:18

companies in her 20 years since her first

3:21

remote... Sorry. I forgot

3:23

to unmute myself. I was saying

3:26

that Dev has pretended to be from the help desk

3:28

of some of Australia's most recognised companies

3:30

in the 20 years since her first remote

3:32

access scam. Early in her career, it

3:35

was often Microsoft. Today,

3:38

NBN is a favorite, as NBN

3:40

Chief Security Officer, Darren Kane told us.

3:43

If I had a dollar for every time Dev pretended

3:46

to be from NBN, well, I still

3:48

wouldn't have as much money as she's stolen, but

3:50

jeez, I'd have a lot of dollars.

3:53

But no company is off limits, and

3:55

no government agency is, either. Isn't

3:57

that right, David Salisbury from the ACCC and Scamwatch?

4:00

It is. Through Scamwatch, we even

4:02

see remote access scammers like Dev impersonate

4:05

the tax office. The warning signs

4:07

that it's a scam include threats to arrest

4:09

you unless you pay over the phone

4:12

using gift cards. Now,

4:14

of course, we should all pay our taxes.

4:17

Thanks very much to David Salisbury from Scamwatch

4:19

and Darren Kane from NBN.

4:21

I hope there's applause

4:23

there. Is there... I can't hear it. Okay.

4:25

Could you just put some... Now,

4:30

because of the lockdown, Dev's actually at

4:32

home tonight, and she still doesn't

4:35

know that she's going to be on This is Not

4:37

Your Life, but she's expecting a Skype

4:39

call from her mother, and Dev's mum

4:41

has agreed to let us join in that meeting

4:43

for the big This is Not Your Life reveal.

4:46

Let's listen in.

4:46

Hi, Mum. Hello.

4:51

Mum? Mum? Oh, for God...

4:55

Mum! Turn Your mic...

4:58

Your mic! Turn it on.

4:59

... keep pressing it, but nothing happens.

5:02

No?

5:03

No, it's working now. Don't... No, no-

5:04

Well, I'll talk-

5:05

God damnit.

5:07

Oh, hello darling. How are

5:09

you?

5:09

Hi, mum. Well, thanks. How are you?

5:11

Good, dear. Good. And dear,

5:14

I'm letting someone else into this call.

5:15

No, don't do that, mum. It's not safe to give

5:18

people access... She's done it anyway.

5:21

Dev Maguire, you're on This is Not

5:23

Your Life.

5:24

You're kidding. Mum?

5:24

Congratulations, darling.

5:24

Mum, I'm in my trackies. Mum.

5:27

Oh, mum.

5:29

Oh, that's fine, Dev. Just sit down and relax

5:31

as we salute your extraordinary career as

5:34

a remote access scammer running

5:36

scams like this one.

5:38

I got

5:40

a call from this nice Telstra lady saying

5:42

hackers had tried to access my computer.

5:45

She told me what to type so she could access

5:48

my computer and secure it. Then

5:50

she got me to log into my bank account

5:52

to check if it had been hacked. At

5:55

one point, my screen went blank,

5:57

but she said she'd fix it. When

5:59

I checked my account the next day, $2,000

6:03

was gone.

6:04

Do you remember that call, Dev?

6:06

I certainly do, Mike.

6:07

Well, that is good, because we're going to get Geoff on the

6:09

line right now. Jeff, are

6:11

you there? Hello, Geoff.

6:14

Geoff. Okay. We seem to

6:16

be having some trouble getting

6:18

Geoff there.

6:19

Hang on a second, Mike. I should be able to... Yeah,

6:21

I'm just logging back on Goeff's computer now.

6:23

Actually, no. There's no need to-

6:24

Oh, it's no problem.

6:25

Darling, not now.

6:27

I really would actually prefer if you don't-

6:28

No, he's definitely online. I think he's just on

6:30

another call, though. I'll just check something while I'm

6:33

here. Yeah. From this transaction history,

6:35

it looks like Geoff's got the money back. That's

6:37

rare. Most victims don't get their money.

6:38

I know that. But would you please just-

6:41

Oh, well I can fix it. Oh, look. Geoff's just been paid,

6:43

too-

6:43

Darling, not now.

6:45

Please, don't... No no. Look, I'd really prefer if

6:47

you... Did it anyway. Geoff was

6:49

one of the lucky ones, although he seems not to be

6:51

now, but Dev, let's move on. Can

6:54

you tell me what tactics do you find

6:56

work best in a remote access scam?

6:58

Well, Mike, when you're cold calling, the first 30 seconds

7:00

are the hardest because that's what I've got to try and sell

7:02

the cover story. Mind you, if I call someone

7:05

by chance on the Do Not Call register or their

7:07

number's unlisted for whatever reason, that's

7:09

actually easier because they have a false sense of security.

7:11

So even if you're on the Do Not Call register,

7:14

you can still get scam calls.

7:15

Oh, yeah.

7:16

Darling, that's a bit naughty.

7:19

Mum, it's my job. Like I was saying,

7:21

though, the first 30 seconds are critical.

7:23

It is. But Dev, in those first 30 seconds,

7:25

you've actually had quite a bit of rejection

7:27

over your career, haven't you?

7:29

Absolutely. To survive

7:31

in the remote access game, you've got to get used to

7:33

people hanging up on you a lot. Did

7:35

you know, Mike, that Scamwatch says if you get an

7:37

unexpected call to fix your computer remotely,

7:39

even from a company you trust, you should just

7:42

hang up the phone?

7:43

Yes, actually, I did.

7:44

I mean, how rude.

7:45

Well, Dev, we've asked your coworkers

7:47

how well you deal with all those hangups,

7:50

and they've actually recorded a few examples.

7:50

Shut up. No way.

7:50

Oh, yes, they did. They did. Do you want to have a listen?

7:50

No, but okay.

7:50

Go on. Let's have a

7:54

listen.

7:57

Yeah. Good afternoon, sir.

7:59

I'm calling from the NBN. We believe

8:02

your IP address has been compromised, so

8:04

we're conducting a security

8:06

update to make sure your online banking is

8:08

protected. So, what I'll need you to do is to

8:10

download... Good

8:12

afternoon, sir. I'm calling from Telstra I... Dammit. I'll

8:17

just get you to put your login details and

8:19

your password. Yep. I won't be able to see them.Oh, for BEEP sake.

8:23

I was so close.Sir, it's very-

8:26

I'm hanging up now.

8:27

But sir-

8:27

Please don't call this number again.

8:28

[inaudible swearing]. Oh, I

8:36

can't believe you got all those recordings,

8:38

Mike. Oh, so embarrassing.

8:43

Mike?

8:43

Yes, I'm here, Dev. It

8:45

sounds like you don't always keep your cool, Dev.

8:47

Well, actually, it sounds like you just went to the toilet, you-

8:50

Especially when your targets use a little hangup

8:52

script, like Scamwatch suggests. So, if

8:54

people feel rude just hanging up, it's a good idea

8:56

to write down a polite, firm

8:58

phrase that you're comfortable using to end

9:01

potential scam calls and keep it near the

9:03

phone.

9:03

I'd prefer they didn't. But, yes, that does

9:05

help for some people.

9:06

Well, you wouldn't be on This is Not Your Life if

9:08

everyone hung up on you, Dev, so let's hear just

9:11

a few of the true remote access stories

9:13

reported to Scamwatch.

9:14

I might go to the toilet myself now, then.

9:17

She said there'd been an internet security breach.

9:19

I questioned it, but she showed me where

9:22

to check for the breach warnings on my computer, and I

9:24

found lots of warnings there. So,

9:26

I gave them remote access to scan for hackers

9:28

PSI codes.

9:31

I got an email from a service I use

9:33

asking me to call about my subscription.

9:36

When I rang, they said I'd been hacked

9:38

and that I needed to give them remote

9:40

access quickly so they could stop the hackers taking

9:43

money from my bank accounts.

9:46

My computer froze and a message came up with

9:48

a 1800 number to ring. I rang

9:50

and was put through to someone who was supposed to help.

9:52

Then later they told me I had to pay for

9:55

new security software to unfreeze

9:57

my computer.

9:59

There you go, Dev. How does it feel to hear all

10:01

those victims' stories?

10:03

So many happy memories, Mike, and the

10:05

new security software angle is an

10:07

especially good one, because then we ring up

10:09

a year later and ask them to renew.

10:12

A scam subscription that renews every year?

10:14

That is diabolical.

10:16

Every time someone loses money and has their identity

10:18

compromised, that's a good day at the

10:21

office for me.

10:21

And she does work very hard, Mike.

10:23

We're really very proud.

10:25

Oh, thanks, mum. Actually, Mike,

10:27

it's so great to be on the show. Seriously,

10:30

this is like a dream. I actually can't believe

10:32

it's happening. I really appreciate it. But because of the

10:34

lockdown at the moment, I'm working from home, so

10:36

I really need to get back to work.

10:37

You see what I mean? Great work

10:39

ethic. We're very proud.

10:40

All right, Dev. We understand it's a very

10:42

challenging time for everyone. Thank you very

10:45

much for joining us on this... Now

10:47

she's gone. Okay. Well, I think we still

10:49

have Dev's mum here, though.

10:50

I am, Mike.

10:51

And thank you for helping us pay tribute to your

10:54

daughter's prolific scamming.

10:55

My pleasure. We're very proud.

10:58

Bye, then, Mike.

10:59

And goodbye to all of you at home, too.

11:01

Thanks very much for joining me on another episode

11:03

of This is Not Your Life.

11:05

Yeah. How do I hang up? Dev? Hello?

11:06

Until next time, remember to always keep your

11:08

computer up to date with the latest software updates,

11:11

antivirus software, and a good firewall.

11:15

Dad, where's the iPad? I can't find it.

11:15

Not now, sweetie. Daddy's working. Never

11:18

give you a credit card or account details out over

11:20

the phone unless you made the call yourself-

11:22

I can't find the charger.

11:23

... and you're using a phone number that

11:25

you've checked on the organisation's official

11:27

website.

11:27

Can you help me find the charger?

11:29

And never give a stranger remote access to your

11:31

computer, even if they claim to be from

11:33

a well-known business or government organisation.

11:36

Sorry. Have I hung up? How do I hang up? I can't find that.

11:38

There's more information at scamwatch.gov.au.

11:38

Dev? Devvie?

11:38

And as we always say-

11:38

How do I hang up?

11:38

... be yourself.

11:38

I think I'm still here. Am I still here?

11:38

Don't let a scammer be you.

11:38

Is there a hangup button? Devvie? Devvie? Hello? I'm still here, I think. I can't find the... Is there a window or a... How do I hang up? I can't find the window. Hello? Goodbye? I don't know what to-

11:38

That was the final episode of This is Not Your Life for Scams Awareness Week 2020. This podcast was brought to you by the ACCC, the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission. For more information about scams, go

11:40

to scamwatch.gov.au.