0:01

This is Not Your Life. Celebrating

0:03

the masters of identity theft.

0:06

Welcome to another episode of This is

0:08

Not Your Life. Tonight, get ready

0:10

to be swept off your feet as we meet Australia's

0:13

most successful romance scammer.

0:15

But who is he? Well, take look at the profile

0:17

pic on the big screen. Good

0:19

looking, isn't he? But what about this guy? Or this

0:22

guy? Well,

0:28

tonight you'll meet all three of those hotties because

0:30

they are all pictures used in romance scams

0:32

by the same scammer. Ladies

0:34

and gentlemen, let's have a big This is Not

0:36

Your Life welcome for Joe BEEP. Come on

0:39

out, Joe. Whoa.

0:42

Okay, so Joe's not quite as hot as his

0:44

profile pictures, but why don't you say hello,

0:46

Joe?

0:47

Well hello.

0:49

All right. Let's sit down, Joe. Even I've gone a little bit

0:51

weak at the knees.

0:52

Oh, thanks Mike. I can't believe I've been chosen

0:54

for This is Not Your Life. Oh, what

0:56

an honour. But I want to recognise all the

0:58

other romance scammers out there too, especially

1:01

the female scammers.

1:02

Yeah, why's that?

1:03

We're still quite a male-dominated industry.

1:06

About three quarters of the money lost to romance

1:08

scams was lost by female clients in 2019.

1:10

I'm sorry, clients? Don't

1:12

you mean victims?

1:13

We prefer clients, Mike. But

1:15

the point I want to make is that four out of every

1:17

10 romance scams are reported by men.

1:19

Right. So men fall for romance scams almost

1:21

as often as women?

1:22

Absolutely, Mike.

1:23

That's good to know... I mean, bad to know, but interesting.

1:25

I'm an equal opportunity scammer at both

1:28

ends of the gender spectrum, and anywhere

1:30

in between.

1:30

That's right folks, romance scammers don't

1:32

discriminate.

1:33

Thank you. Thanks. Thanks a lot. Yep,

1:35

us romance scammers pride ourselves on

1:37

moving with the times. We're always adapting.

1:39

Is it true that about a third of romance scams

1:41

actually start on social media or online

1:44

forums that aren't specifically designed for

1:46

dating?

1:46

It is. I'm always trying new apps:

1:48

Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp, Snapchat, WeChat, Pinterest, TikTok.

1:52

You name it, these days I even get clients

1:55

on Words with Friends, which is great because I

1:57

really love word games.

1:58

Well, I prefer Scrabble actually. Words with Friends is

2:00

a blatant ripoff, which I guess is why

2:02

you like it. But what's your highest score?

2:04

I got over $10,000 from one player.

2:07

Well. As you can see folks, Joe is very

2:09

good with words even when it's not with friends.

2:11

Well Joe, you've certainly had an interesting career.

2:14

Here's just a few examples of the many

2:16

jobs that you've pretended to have over

2:18

the years.

2:19

Yeah mate, I work on oil rigs. I'm a mechanical engineer.

2:22

Yeah, off the West Australian coast. It's a company

2:24

called Oceanic Offshore. Yes

2:26

ma'am, US Air Force pilot for a decade,

2:29

but now I run my own business out of Guam.

2:32

I'm in Australia looking for investors. Yeah, I'm

2:34

what they call a venture capitalist. Since

2:36

I lost my wife to cancer last year, I've

2:39

been really lonely. I'm a doctor.

2:41

Really?

2:42

I work in Afghanistan with the United

2:44

Nation.

2:45

Oh?

2:45

You know, it's my calling in this world to

2:48

help the poor people.

2:49

Oh, wow.

2:49

I remember that

2:52

last one. Jocelyn was a really lovely woman, very

2:55

trusting.

2:55

No, it sounds like you had feelings for her Joe?

2:57

Yeah, it does, doesn't it?

2:59

Well look, when you put those stories back-to-back, they

3:01

do sound a little far-fetched, but one-on-one

3:04

Joe is very convincing.

3:06

Oh, thanks Mike. Remember too, I

3:08

back up my stories by sending fake IDs

3:10

and other fake docs.

3:11

Oh, you do indeed. And especially for This

3:13

is Not Your Life. Here's a dramatisation

3:15

of some WhatsApp messages that you sent to get

3:18

personal details from one of your romance scam

3:20

victims. Now this is based on a true

3:22

Scamwatch story, and it's performed tonight

3:24

by none other than Australia's eSafety Commissioner,

3:27

Julie Inman Grant.

3:28

Oh, you're kidding?

3:28

And the ACCC Chair himself, Rod

3:31

Sims.

3:32

Oh wow.

3:33

Hey sweetheart, how's it going? XOX.

3:35

Good. You? X.

3:39

I miss you so much. Love heart

3:42

emoji. Hey, I got a new driver's

3:44

licence photo. It's so

3:46

bad. Want to see it?

3:48

Send it. R O F L.

3:52

Okay. But please promise you won't laugh.

3:54

Face blowing a kiss emoji.

3:55

Oh, cute. Wink emoji.

3:59

You're so sweet. I love that about

4:01

you. Hey babe, can I see your

4:03

licence pic?

4:04

Blushing emoji. No, it's

4:06

horrible.

4:07

No way. You're gorgeous. Come

4:09

on, don't be shy. Send it now?

4:12

Smiling face with heart eyes emoji.

4:14

Okay then.

4:17

Well. That is very challenging

4:19

listening in so many ways. But

4:21

a big thank you to the ACCC's

4:23

Chair, Rod Sims, and our national eSafety

4:26

Commissioner, Julie Inman Grant.

4:27

Can I just add one more thing, Mike?

4:30

Of course you can, Commissioner. Go ahead!

4:32

The current sextortion scams is

4:34

where the scammer uses your previously

4:36

compromised password and email

4:38

to scare you into thinking they've either

4:40

hacked into your webcam, or they've hacked

4:42

into your hard drive, and that they have your

4:44

rudie nudies that they'll share online

4:47

unless you make a Bitcoin payment. Please

4:49

know that you should never pay. You should come

4:51

to the eSafety office at esafety.gov.au, and

4:55

we'll help you through.

4:56

Yes, very good advice. Thank you very much to the

4:58

National eSafety Commissioner, Julie Inman Grant. Although if

5:01

you don't mind, we won't ask you and Rod to re-enact that

5:03

scenario.

5:06

You know, Mike, it's no accident I was on WhatsApp there.

5:09

No matter what platform I make contact on first,

5:11

I try to move the conversation to direct

5:13

private messaging ASAP.

5:15

Often it's WhatsApp like we heard there, but

5:17

it could be SMSs, email, or even

5:19

just talking on the phone.

5:20

Correct. Once I'm on the private channel,

5:23

that's when I turn on the charm.

5:25

And that's all about softening up the

5:27

client... I mean, victim, Joe? Is that

5:30

right? How long does that phase last?

5:31

Well, it can be a really long time, sometimes

5:33

months. I send lots of information about

5:36

myself.

5:36

Fake information?

5:37

Naturally. It's all about building trust and

5:39

making the relationship feel real.

5:41

That's impressive, I mean concerning, I mean terrible.

5:45

But let's talk about how you convert fake love

5:47

into real money in a romance scam. Often

5:49

it's as simple as a fake story about something going

5:52

wrong, isn't it?

5:52

Oh yes, Mike. There's nothing like an emergency

5:55

to make someone part with their money quickly.

5:57

Let's hear some of the ways you do that.

6:00

Mary, is that you?

6:01

Hello?

6:02

Oh, thank God Mary-

6:03

Richard? It's 2:00 AM.

6:04

There's been a fire in the factory in Guam. I

6:06

don't know what I'm going to do. I'm

6:09

in Central Australia on business. I'm

6:11

trying to arrange payment from my last job in

6:13

Malaysia, but the internet is terrible. Look,

6:16

I hate to ask this... I'm

6:19

in the airport in Kabul. I have been

6:22

robbed. They take everything. Please,

6:24

please just send me enough money for the

6:26

plane ticket, please. My mum's really

6:30

sick. They say she needs surgery urgently, but they

6:32

won't operate unless I pay them up front.

6:34

Well, some truly incredible

6:36

performances there.

6:38

Thank you.

6:38

By which I mean, they don't sound very credible to

6:40

me.

6:40

A lot of people are sceptical at first, Mike. They resist

6:43

sending money, ask for proof, that sort of thing.

6:45

But I just keep pushing and pushing. Eventually

6:47

some people give in. Another trick is to ask

6:49

for a lot of money the first time, knowing you'll

6:51

be knocked back. But then when I ask for a smaller

6:54

amount, it seems like a more reasonable

6:56

request.

6:56

And Joe, it's never just one request

6:58

is it?

6:59

Oh no. I always find a reason to ask for more.

7:01

Did you know there's only one type of scam that causes

7:03

more financial losses than romance scams? And

7:06

that's investment scams. So lately I've

7:08

started convincing my fake girlfriends to invest in

7:10

fake businesses as well. Ka-ching.

7:12

Well, you have had an extraordinary career,

7:14

but they're not all success stories are

7:16

they Joe? You've had to deal with a lot of rejection.

7:19

That's true, Mike. Plenty of people realise they're being

7:21

scammed.

7:21

Why is that?

7:22

It varies. Some people do what's called a reverse

7:24

image search.

7:25

Oh, so they go to images.google.com, and

7:28

they press the camera icon and they upload your profile

7:30

pic?

7:31

Exactly. If they do that, well, it's

7:33

game over. Other people pick up on inconsistencies

7:35

in my cover story. When you scamming

7:37

lots of people all at once, it's pretty easy to get

7:39

mixed up.

7:40

I bet it is. But I guess the main message

7:42

is never send money to someone

7:44

you haven't met in person. And if you're unsure,

7:47

talk to a trusted friend or relative who you've

7:49

known for a long time.

7:50

That's not my message, Mike. Not at all.

7:52

Well Joe, you won't be surprised to know that

7:54

the women-

7:55

And men.

7:55

The women and men that you've conned mostly

7:57

didn't want to be here tonight.

7:59

Oh really?

8:00

Neither did any of your four ex-wives.

8:02

That's no surprise.

8:03

Or even your own mother. But chin up Joe, because

8:05

there is one lady who wanted very much

8:07

to be here tonight. Remember this call?

8:10

Mary, is that you?

8:11

Hello?

8:12

Oh, thank God Mary, listen-

8:13

Richard? It's 2:00 AM.

8:15

She met you through match.com, knew

8:17

you was Bruce the retired Air Force pilot

8:19

with an aviation business in Guam, and she

8:21

lost $11,500. Joe BEEP,

8:24

please meet BEEP.

8:28

Hello. It's so great to finally meet-

8:30

I lost $10,000 because of you, you (beep). [crosstalk].

8:30

That is not... I'm

8:33

so sorry Joe, are you okay?

8:35

Not really.

8:35

Does anyone here know first aid?

8:37

I do.

8:38

Who are you?

8:38

Dave Lacey, Managing Director of IDCARE. I'm

8:40

the next surprise guest.

8:41

Oh yes, Professor Lacey. Yes look, unfortunately

8:44

I don't think we can continue.

8:45

Okay, but I really want to tell you about the IDCARE

8:47

Cyber First Aid Kit.

8:48

I know.

8:49

It can help you work out what to do if you think you've been

8:51

scammed.

8:51

The Cyber First Aid Kit is great. Really, it's great.

8:54

But at this point I think we just need some medical

8:56

first aid. Well, that's where we're going to have to finish

8:58

tonight's episode of This is Not Your Life.

9:00

Remember, there's more information about romance

9:02

scams at scammwatch.gov.au.

9:05

Until next time, as we always say,

9:07

be yourself, but don't let a

9:09

scammer be you.

9:15

Hey. What did you think of that

9:17

episode?

9:18

Okay I guess, but at the end they should

9:21

have re-emphasised, never send a

9:23

stranger copies of personal ID documents

9:25

or other sensitive material. BRB.

9:28

LOL. And never send money to

9:30

someone you haven't met in person. Money

9:33

mouth face emoji.

9:34

Vulcan salute emoji. Cowboy

9:36

hat face emoji. Grinning

9:38

cat emoji.

9:40

Huh? Question mark, question

9:42

mark, question mark, question mark.

9:44

Zombie emoji. Jack-o-lantern emoji.

9:47

Poop emoji.

9:49

Rod, is your cat sitting on your

9:51

phone again?

9:52

Poop emoji. Poop emoji.

9:55

Poop emoji.

9:57

This podcast was brought to you by the ACCC,

9:59

the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission.

10:01

For more information about scams, go to scamwatch.gov.au.