0:00

Welcome to this League uncut

0:03

in were the twenty four hour NBA News.

0:05

This is you.

0:08

Chris Haynes's telling Mark

0:11

Stein it's some time. This

0:17

league un cut is underway and on fire.

0:21

This should be a good one.

0:24

Yes, indeed, this will be a great

0:26

one. I should say.

0:29

I told you, Stein Stein,

0:31

I told you, I told you for months.

0:34

I said it's going to happen. It's

0:36

going to happen.

0:37

Everybody, Welcome back to hashtag

0:39

this League uncut. I'm your

0:42

host, Chris Haynes and Mark stein Stein.

0:44

I told you it was going to happen, and

0:47

it finally happened. It

0:49

finally did so, I'm

0:52

pretty sure listeners asking what happened,

0:54

what's going on, I'm gonna tell you what was going

0:57

on. I got stan Van

0:59

Gunn himself. He's

1:01

here available to come on our

1:04

podcast. I'm very excited. This is my broadcast

1:07

partner with T and T. You

1:09

guys know him as the legendary coach. But

1:12

he's doing He's over there in the broadcast

1:14

booth with me. And I asked him

1:17

on the same day. I asked him on the same

1:19

day, you know, and he came through.

1:21

I know he has a lot of things

1:23

to do. But I appreciate him for taking the time to

1:26

join us. Stan, I appreciate you brother,

1:28

Thank you for coming on absolutely.

1:30

Chris, anytime you know that for teammates,

1:32

that's what you do.

1:34

I appreciate that.

1:35

Stein.

1:37

I can't wait to hear what it's like to travel with

1:39

you.

1:39

Mark.

1:40

We don't end up traveling together much

1:42

because you know, Chris coming from Sacramento

1:44

and I'm coming from Florida.

1:46

So we just connect when we

1:48

get that.

1:49

And Stan's taking us like he

1:52

really takes care of us on the road.

1:54

He treated us to a suite at

1:57

a baseball game in San Francisco Giant

2:00

Baseball game.

2:01

It often takes us to dinner.

2:03

I had the pleasure.

2:03

Sine of joining him and

2:06

his brother Jeff van Gunny for dinner.

2:09

We had dinner at well, what was that place?

2:11

Italian Place in Boston.

2:13

Aria, Aria in Austin.

2:16

Yeah, it was a PJ Carlistimo

2:19

recommendation. And you can never go wrong

2:22

if PJ Carlismo's recommending.

2:25

No, that is true, PJ. I've seen

2:27

PJ now three times in the playoffs.

2:29

I got to work with him at ESBN

2:32

for years, and I know I love

2:34

food and I care about restaurants,

2:37

but I don't think there is anyone in

2:39

the history of the sport

2:42

who cares more about

2:44

the postgame meal than

2:46

PJ Carlssimo. So if he, if he

2:48

hooked you guys up, then it would had to be good.

2:50

Well it is, But Mark, I can't do the

2:53

post games with PJ. I

2:55

don't know how you got with him. I mean,

2:57

you know, PJ wants to go eat. It's like I'm

3:01

like.

3:03

Man, and that's

3:05

early. I mean I remember an All

3:07

Star game. I remember

3:09

an All Star game in New Orleans and

3:12

he had his kids with him who were young

3:14

at the time, and we must have you

3:17

know, every city in the league. PJ

3:19

knows someone who will keep their place open

3:22

late for him, and it must have been midnight

3:24

when we sat down, and his kids were ten

3:26

and twelve. But no, there is there is nothing

3:29

that will stop coach Carlissimo from

3:31

the postgame meal.

3:32

No, there certainly is not one of the all

3:34

time great people in the game.

3:37

Well, Stan again, thank you for coming

3:39

on and join us.

3:40

You know, we got some interesting playoff series

3:43

going on, and we're going to get to

3:45

that.

3:45

But I want to, I want to. I gotta touch

3:48

on these coaching.

3:49

Moves that the Phoenix Sons

3:51

and Los Angeles Lakers are on

3:53

the verge of making. But obviously

3:56

we know they let go at Darby Ham after two

3:58

seasons, Phoenix Sons.

3:59

Let go of Frank Vogel after.

4:01

One season, and

4:04

the Suns are bringing on coach Buenholzer.

4:07

Your I guess your initial thoughts

4:09

on that move.

4:12

Well, the on the

4:14

Phoenix thing, I mean, you know, I

4:18

think what always sort of gets

4:20

me is if you look

4:22

at the organizations

4:25

that have success

4:27

consistently in the league, continuity

4:30

is a big part of it. And

4:33

so you look at Miami and people say,

4:35

oh, well, they always win, that's why they've

4:37

had Sposter for as long as

4:39

they have, But that's not true. Before

4:42

they went to the finals in

4:44

the Bubble, they had missed the playoffs,

4:46

what three out of four, three out of five

4:48

years.

4:49

But they don't just make

4:51

a move.

4:52

They understand that

4:54

continuity helps you you stay

4:57

on the same page with the type of players

4:59

you want and the

5:02

players that will fit the coach and fit

5:05

the organization.

5:06

And as much as.

5:07

People see how continuity

5:10

works, they had some disappointing

5:12

years in Denver, they stuck

5:14

with Michael Malone.

5:16

They stuck with their key

5:18

players. It got better.

5:20

No matter how many times people see it

5:23

work, most of the

5:25

people twenty seven to twenty eight

5:27

teams in the league can't figure it out, and

5:30

so they just keep changing.

5:31

And so now the Phoenix Sun's.

5:33

Third coach in three

5:36

years, and we'll

5:38

see if Mike Budenholzer can

5:41

make it to game one of his second year

5:43

with Phoenix, which would make him.

5:45

Matdishbia's longest lasting

5:47

yet.

5:50

You know. But here's the thing, Listen,

5:53

I don't have any problem.

5:56

They pay us a lot of money to coach in this

5:58

league. Owners front offices

6:01

have every right to make a change

6:03

whenever they want. But please

6:05

spare me the ba that

6:07

James Jones came out with saying we

6:10

all have accountability here.

6:13

I read that and I said, oh

6:15

really, James, So explain.

6:17

To me what your accountability

6:20

looks like for putting together

6:22

a roster with no point guard, no

6:25

defensive stopper.

6:27

I just like, explain

6:29

to.

6:29

Me what your accountability looks like, because

6:32

you still have a job. Explain to

6:34

me what the rest of the front office is accountability

6:37

looks like. Explain to me what

6:39

Matt Ishby's accountability.

6:41

Looks like that was a BS

6:43

line.

6:44

One guy was held accountable,

6:47

one guy that was it, no one

6:49

else was held accountable. And then with

6:51

Darvin Ham, look, I mean he

6:54

took him to the Western Conference finals

6:57

in his first year, a

6:59

big over achievement I think in the minds

7:01

of most of us. And then this year

7:03

they went into the playoffs and gave Denver

7:06

a great first round series.

7:08

I know, it only went five games.

7:10

I don't think I've ever seen a team losing

7:13

five games in a series where

7:15

they led for over seventy percent

7:17

of the minute. So, look, expectations

7:20

are what they are.

7:21

In LA.

7:23

They fired Frank Bogel two years after

7:26

winning a championship. So those

7:28

guys both got caught

7:31

in two of the crazier

7:33

situations in this

7:35

league. But

7:37

they both take a lot of money home with them,

7:40

deservedly so, and I

7:42

hope they both get opportunities

7:45

going forward.

7:47

Yeah, it's interesting when you mentioned the money, because I

7:49

think there is a perspective out there now,

7:51

or a viewpoint that suggests that

7:54

part of the reason your salaries are on the

7:56

rise is because the blame is baked in.

7:59

I mean, I don't know how fair that is.

8:01

It cannot be a fun experience when you're

8:03

actually doing the job and you know

8:05

it. But it just it almost seems

8:08

like the blame is factored

8:10

into the contracts

8:12

that are being handed out today, that coaches

8:14

know that they're the first person

8:17

in line who is going to

8:19

get the blame when things go awry.

8:22

Yeah, and you.

8:22

Know what, I don't even looked at it really mark

8:24

as a as a fairness

8:27

issue. I mean, professional

8:30

sports aren't about fairness. Like

8:34

I said, The thing I mainly objected

8:36

to was the BS

8:38

statement that Phoenix put out.

8:41

But fairness doesn't really enter into

8:43

it.

8:43

What I wonder about is

8:47

the people who constantly

8:50

make coaching changes.

8:52

Just somebody please explain

8:55

to.

8:55

Me or show me where that has

8:57

worked. I mean it

8:59

doesn't. People who stick with

9:01

people. I'm not saying forever,

9:04

but stick with people and have some continuity.

9:07

Look, I've talked to a lot of NBA scouts.

9:10

It's a lot easier to go out there and do

9:12

your job when you sort of know what

9:14

your team is looking for, what's

9:16

our style of play going to be, who's

9:19

going to get playing time with that particular

9:21

coach. I think the New York Knicks

9:24

have done a tremendous job of

9:26

putting players on.

9:27

Their roster that fit with Tom Thibodeau.

9:30

I think the Miami Heat always

9:32

does a good job of putting people on

9:35

their roster that fit with Eric Spolstra.

9:38

You know, the Denver Nuggets know

9:41

who they want to put with Michael

9:43

Malone and with Nikola Jokic.

9:45

I don't know how you do your job as a front.

9:48

Officer as a scout where you

9:50

went out and you said, hey, this guy would

9:52

be a good fit, and then you say,

9:54

oh no, now we're going in a different direction. Oh

9:57

now we're going in a different direction. It's

9:59

hard for your organization to

10:01

be successful, and yet

10:04

owners in front offices just keep

10:06

doing it.

10:07

So fairness aside.

10:09

To me, it's about being successful and

10:12

being about making moves that makes

10:14

sense. And I don't see

10:16

how any of this does a

10:19

lot of times, let's face it, it's a cover

10:21

your ass move.

10:22

Just screwed up.

10:23

As a front office, you didn't

10:25

put a good enough roster together, and

10:28

rather than working on that and making your

10:30

roster better, it's just easier

10:33

to.

10:33

Avoid blame and blame

10:36

the head coach.

10:36

That Phoenix roster from day

10:39

one wasn't about fit.

10:41

It was about going out.

10:42

And getting the biggest names possible

10:45

to put on the back of their uniforms.

10:47

I mean, look, they thought they were contenders.

10:50

Who are the other contending teams.

10:53

That don't have a point guard?

10:55

Who are the other contending teams where

10:57

you can't name a defensive

10:59

stopper in their starting

11:02

lineup. It was a ridiculous

11:05

roster they put together, and they

11:07

held their head coach accountable.

11:09

Makes no sense.

11:10

Yeah, I have reported that Vogel

11:12

wanted a point guard,

11:15

one of they starting point guard on that roster,

11:17

but the front office felt like that

11:20

will be taking the ball away from

11:23

taking the ball away from KD. Devin

11:25

Booker and Bradley Beal felt like they needed the ball

11:27

in their hands.

11:27

That was their explanation.

11:30

Yeah, it didn't.

11:31

Work, and so Frank got held accountable

11:33

because you know, we certainly

11:35

have not seen over the last

11:38

few years with Jamal

11:40

Murray and Steph Curry and

11:43

guys like that, that the point guard would be important.

11:45

I mean, we've never we've never really

11:48

seen the importance of that position in

11:50

the NBA.

11:51

Well, and it also seems like, you

11:53

know, relationships with

11:56

your star players like that is

11:58

always it's probably being more prioritize

12:01

now than ever. So to my

12:03

knowledge, I don't think Mike Budenholzer

12:05

has worked with Durant

12:07

or Booker or Beal in the past, so he's

12:09

really walking in there totally fresh.

12:12

How hard is that for a coach

12:14

to go into a new organization

12:17

with you know, ownership

12:19

is talking championship or bust. Obviously

12:21

they've spent a bazillion dollars on the roster.

12:24

They don't have flexibility to make changes. How

12:26

hard is that just for a coach to walk

12:28

into a new program and start from

12:31

scratch.

12:32

Yeah, I mean it's never easy, Mark.

12:33

I mean, you know, you're getting to know new players

12:36

and you've got to get the pieces

12:38

to fit together. You've got

12:40

to get buy in from your key guys.

12:43

But look, every coaching situation has

12:47

challenges, and you'd certainly rather go

12:49

into a situation even

12:51

that has challenges, but it at least

12:53

has talent than not having

12:56

talent. So Mike Budenholzer

12:58

has dealt with that obviously with Giannis

13:01

in Milwaukee and the whole thing. And

13:04

I mean, we want to get into ridiculous coaching

13:06

hires and fires. We don't need

13:08

to go any further than the Milwaukee Bucks,

13:11

who who got rid of Mike Budenholzer

13:13

because they lost in the

13:16

first round with Yannis hurt,

13:18

so they went out and hired a guy who went thirty and

13:20

thirteen, made a coaching change

13:23

there, and Yannis.

13:25

Got hurt again.

13:25

I mean, look, it's almost like

13:28

you can't make this stuff up. So Mike

13:31

Budenholzer is a great coach,

13:34

and we'll do a.

13:35

Hell of a job.

13:36

But I've seen great

13:38

coaches in this league, and I've

13:40

yet to see a miracle worker.

13:43

And I've yet to see anybody win win

13:45

a championship with

13:48

a roster that wasn't

13:50

good enough. So you know, his

13:52

job there will be to maximize

13:55

what he has.

13:56

Whoever has the Lakers, same

13:58

job.

13:59

It's what it always maximize

14:01

what you've got, which is all you can.

14:03

Do as a coach, and

14:05

that will never supersede

14:07

the roster itself. Coach.

14:09

I did a bleacher Report live stream

14:13

just before we hopped on this podcast,

14:15

and you know, I was reported Jalen

14:17

Brunston is going to play tonight.

14:20

You know we worked the game where he heard his foot.

14:22

But another one of my reports was

14:26

I reported Doc Rivers

14:28

dismissed a few assistant coaches recently.

14:32

Those assistants were Josh Oppenheimer,

14:35

DJ Baker and Sydney Dobner.

14:38

And could you talk about

14:41

have you ever been in a situation where you had to relieve

14:45

some assistants that weren't on your

14:47

original like that they were holdovers

14:49

from a previous coaching regimen, And what

14:52

is that process?

14:52

Like?

14:53

I know people saw that and they might not understand,

14:56

but this is Doc's this

14:59

is Doc fine. They get an opportunity to bring

15:01

in his own staff. He just talk about that type

15:03

of transition.

15:04

Yeah, that's it.

15:05

I mean I don't think that was necessarily

15:09

Doc, you know, not

15:12

thinking guys were any good.

15:14

I mean most of us, at

15:17

least of us.

15:18

Older guys who go on the

15:20

old formula where you get to hire your own

15:22

staff, you.

15:23

Know, you have you wanna want

15:26

to have.

15:26

And I think that's what Doc was. And the

15:28

only thing that's different about this is

15:31

he came in mid season, so he

15:33

couldn't dismiss everybody then,

15:35

so he had to sort of make it work with the

15:38

guys he had. Now they're in

15:40

a position where he can create his own staff,

15:42

you know, around he's got Dave Jeger. He's got

15:45

Rex Kallamian, you know, now he

15:47

can add to that. And so unfortunately,

15:51

you know, some people have to

15:54

have to go to bring new people in.

15:56

And I feel for

15:58

all those guys, but

16:01

I think we all know, and including those guys

16:03

who've gotta let go, that's just unfortunately

16:07

the nature of the business.

16:09

Chris said when he went out to dinner with you

16:11

guys that when just watching

16:13

you and Jeff, like that should have been a

16:15

TV show in itself, that it was that good

16:18

to watch you guys joust. What are the

16:20

chances that we will ever get a

16:22

Stan Van Gundy Jeff Van Gundy basketball

16:25

podcast that just to me seems like a natural.

16:28

Yeah, you know, I don't.

16:31

Maybe at the time where we

16:33

get to the time mark where no

16:36

one else will employ us

16:39

to coach or talk

16:41

about basketball, maybe then we'll have to

16:43

do it ourselves. But right

16:45

now we've been lucky enough that other

16:48

people will pay us, and we've been busy with

16:50

other things.

16:52

There would be a lot of back and forth

16:54

and a lot of disagreement and probably

16:57

at times a lot of yelling and screaming.

16:59

And ain't that's

17:02

that's exactly what it's like st that's

17:04

exactly you would think they'll

17:06

be so close there would be a lot

17:08

of agreements.

17:09

No, it's not, it's

17:13

more than other way.

17:15

Yeah.

17:15

Look, and here's the thing from

17:17

my standpoint, Guys, like

17:20

I think, when you're gonna get in something

17:23

where there's a lot of disagreement, if

17:25

you're gonna do that publicly, you

17:29

would want to be the smarter guy

17:33

in all of those things.

17:34

And I'm not.

17:35

So that's not

17:37

that's not one. I don't mind the private

17:39

back and forth. I don't think I want to.

17:41

Go be getting my ass kicked publicly.

17:46

He's that sharp.

17:48

He's pretty sharp, but I mean and uh,

17:50

pretty quick on his feet in one of the

17:53

best basketball minds

17:55

in the business. Look, I say this knowing full

17:58

well I'm biased, but I'm

18:00

really surprised that, you

18:03

know, no one has gone

18:05

out and gone after

18:07

him as a head

18:10

coach. I know it's been a long time, but look,

18:14

there's a lot of great coaches in our business. I

18:16

just don't think there's anybody better than.

18:18

Him,

18:26

your public personas like you guys

18:28

came into our world as coaches

18:30

and it's you know, to me, it's

18:33

like if we would have known you guys as

18:35

teenagers, Would you have struck us as future

18:37

coaches? Does it go that far back that

18:39

you feel like you were both born to

18:42

do this.

18:43

I don't think anybody's born to do it, Mark,

18:46

but you would have known early on, because

18:49

we're both pretty realistic number

18:51

one, and I think we both realized

18:54

early on that if we were going to have any

18:58

future in basketball, and I

19:00

have to be coaching, because it certainly wasn't

19:02

gonna be players. So even

19:04

though we both were able to play at the small

19:06

college level, neither one of us

19:08

thought, you know what, I think I could make some money

19:10

play in this game someday.

19:12

Now that wasn't a possibility.

19:14

I grew up hoping.

19:16

You know, when I was young, I thought, you

19:18

know, man, I'd really love to be a baseball

19:21

player. But when you hit under one hundred when

19:23

you're thirteen years old, you know,

19:25

like you start looking ahead.

19:27

Going, yeah, I don't really see If.

19:29

I went through the bios of the major league

19:31

players, I just don't think i'd see too many guys

19:34

ninety three when they were

19:36

thirteen. So he started

19:39

justing into another into

19:41

another line of work pretty

19:44

quick, and we grew up with a dad, who

19:46

you know, coached for over forty years, so

19:48

we were around it the whole time.

19:50

And I think not only did we see

19:52

somebody.

19:53

Who loved his job

19:56

and felt he never worked today in his life.

19:59

We grew up around a lot of other coaches,

20:01

and I think we both grew up I

20:03

know we did.

20:04

We both grew up.

20:06

Both liking and respecting

20:09

other coaches.

20:10

So that's where we both always

20:12

wanted to be.

20:13

The fact that we were able to get

20:15

to the level we did, I

20:18

mean, that was just a

20:20

lot of luck, and I think we both

20:23

are still

20:25

in shock that.

20:26

We made it to the level that

20:28

we did. That

20:31

reminds me of myself. Baseball was

20:33

my first love growing up. My dad was a

20:35

big baseball fan. My dad's brother

20:38

played semi pro baseball. I

20:41

loved it. I just

20:43

couldn't play it. And I

20:46

was a decent hitter. When I say decent,

20:48

I probably I'm probably

20:50

bat in two twenty something, you know,

20:54

decent.

20:54

As a junior high school.

20:55

But I couldn't play the outfield

20:57

to save my life, meaning I couldn't

21:00

judge the ball.

21:01

Whenever bat pops off the ball, I

21:04

could, I didn't, I couldn't.

21:05

I didn't know if going to go back or

21:07

go go forward, like so there's

21:10

no DH in junior high

21:12

and high school.

21:13

You can't be a day so

21:16

there was no place for me.

21:18

So that was that was kind of my movement when I

21:20

realized, okay, basic league baseball

21:22

is not going to be for me.

21:24

Yeah.

21:24

My final baseball moment, Chris,

21:27

I was thirteen years old. We were in the league

21:29

championship game. I was

21:31

hitting ninth, of course, and the guy

21:33

ahead of me, we were down.

21:36

We were down a run, and the guy ahead of me

21:38

and eight doubled off the fence. So now

21:41

we have the tying run on

21:43

second base. I'm an I strike

21:45

out on three fastballs right down

21:47

the middle because nobody needed

21:50

to screw around with me, like you

21:52

know. They threw it down the middle

21:54

three times. I swung and missed it all three

21:57

and I was a competitive shit.

21:58

And I got upset.

21:59

I threw the back down, I

22:01

threw my helmet down, and my coach walks

22:04

by me.

22:04

My manager walks by.

22:06

And he said, I don't know what you're so upset about. You

22:08

think you'd be used to it by now, And

22:11

I said, okay, that's probably

22:14

it now. That guy was

22:16

like but I understand why didn't

22:18

sign up to play the next year.

22:20

I'm like, do you remember

22:23

what.

22:23

You said to me at the end of that you

22:26

know, yeah, lost baseball

22:30

baseball moment and then we were full

22:33

time.

22:33

Basketball started.

22:36

Before we get off this coaching conversation,

22:40

Stan has to tell this story that I

22:42

make Hill tell other people

22:44

about this story that Jeff Van Gonnie told

22:48

about. You remember the series I

22:50

believe it was nineteen ninety nine, Alan

22:52

Houston was It was Alan Houston

22:55

that I believe it against Miami. The

22:57

shot at the end where it bounces up,

23:00

remember that stile.

23:01

Okay, go ahead, Stan, you take it away.

23:04

Well, so what happened, Mark is actually

23:06

my brother still will

23:08

talk about this, even though most

23:11

of the coaches you're talking to at clinics,

23:13

you know, don't remember twenty five years

23:15

ago.

23:15

But just to make the point, and it is really

23:18

a good one.

23:19

I think at any level of basketball,

23:22

if you're gonna get into coaching, you have to understand

23:24

what it's all about. And Jeff

23:27

talks about being in that series first

23:29

round. I was assistant in Miami at the

23:31

time, and

23:34

Mark, you'll remember that New

23:37

York was working behind the scenes

23:39

trying to get Phil Jackson to come there

23:41

and coach. So even

23:44

though that they were saying after they

23:46

didn't, they were actively pursuing

23:49

Phil Jackson, We're going to fire my brother,

23:51

the whole thing. And so here

23:54

we are, Game seven, right at the end,

23:56

Allen Houston shoots the ball,

23:58

It hits the back rim, bunce is in the

24:00

air, and my brother says, Okay,

24:03

that balls up in the air, freeze right

24:05

there.

24:06

Good coach or bad coach.

24:10

And that's what so much of coaching

24:12

comes down to, you know, those

24:15

moments because they

24:17

started talking, then the ball bouncers

24:20

through, they end up in the finals, they're

24:22

talking about my brother's resilience

24:25

and the knick three billions and that ball

24:27

bounces out. They're just talking

24:29

about, oh, he didn't get it done, and

24:32

they've got to have a new coach. You

24:34

have to understand that if you want

24:36

to coach, even at the high school level,

24:39

those are the moments that people are gonna

24:41

judge you on, because quite

24:43

honestly, it's

24:46

hard to judge coaches. You're judging

24:48

them on the result. And as a

24:50

coach you have to you have

24:52

to realize that, I mean, I had a moment

24:55

when I was the head coach in Orlando.

24:59

Actually the year we ended up going to the finals

25:01

in two thousand and nine. We

25:03

go down

25:05

in that series three

25:08

to two, and

25:11

at one point in the series,

25:14

I think it was game four, Yeah,

25:18

it was game four.

25:19

They tie up the series.

25:21

We blitz Paul Pierce on the last

25:24

play of the game because I've seen Paul Pierce

25:27

kill us enough and kill other people enough.

25:30

And Glynn big Baby Davis,

25:32

not a great time to be bringing up his name,

25:35

but blin big Baby Davis

25:37

knocks down a jump

25:39

shot, wide open shot

25:42

to win the game. And they asked me afterwards

25:44

was it the right move? And I said, well, obviously

25:47

it wasn't the right move, because

25:50

the right move gets the right result.

25:53

We get judged on the result we lost.

25:55

I said, but now if you want to ask the second question,

25:58

would I.

25:59

Do it again? Hell?

26:00

Yes, because I'm not gonna

26:02

get beat by Paul Pierce, you

26:04

know.

26:05

And we ended up.

26:05

Winning the series and moving on to the Conference

26:08

finals and the and the whole thing. But

26:10

you have to understand as

26:12

a coach that you're judged

26:15

on the result. And I think Jeff's

26:17

illustration of ball in

26:19

the air freeze it right there.

26:21

You got your team the same shot you

26:23

got them to that point.

26:25

Now, whether you're a good coach or a bad coach

26:28

depends on the bounce you get.

26:30

That's the way it goes.

26:31

If it bounces out. We need a new voice.

26:33

This team is right, We need a

26:36

new voice. And we're holding everybody

26:38

accountable.

26:39

Only one person's gonna lose his job,

26:41

but we're all accountable.

26:45

But here's the thing.

26:46

Let's say the phone rings tomorrow from

26:48

Team X. What are the chances

26:50

that they could talk you into doing this one more

26:52

time?

26:53

Oh?

26:53

Hell yes, Oh

26:56

hell yes.

26:56

Because again I think

26:59

in the same thing with my brother, and I think, really,

27:02

anybody who goes into it. You

27:04

said it earlier, Mark, we know what it's

27:06

all about. We know what's baked

27:09

into this. That's what it's that's

27:11

what it's all about.

27:12

And so you get into it,

27:14

and you do it again and again and again.

27:16

If you get the opportunity because of

27:19

the competitive challenge, because the

27:22

camaraderie of being around a team,

27:25

you know, you do it for a lot of other reasons.

27:27

But you know damn well that

27:29

that's possible. So you

27:32

take the good with the bad. Now, what

27:34

I don't think people really

27:37

understand, you

27:40

know, when fans are What I've tried

27:43

to get across the fans

27:45

is when you're calling for somebody

27:48

to get fired. Listen,

27:51

I don't expect any sympathy for a

27:53

head coach.

27:54

We make a lot of money, Like.

27:55

You said, it's baked into it. But

27:58

I don't think people understand and

28:00

that there's a lot of other people who

28:03

are making middle

28:05

class salaries fifty thousand,

28:08

sixty thousand, and seventy thousand

28:10

that that head coach employed that

28:13

are also going to lose their jobs.

28:16

And I'm not asking for sympathy.

28:18

Again, we all know what goes on, but I don't

28:20

even think fans understand.

28:22

Like they just say, Hey, that guy.

28:25

You know, Frank Bogel's gonna walk away with a

28:27

lot of money. Well guess what, his assistant

28:29

video guy is not going to

28:32

walk away with a lot of money. And so

28:35

I just wish people wouldn't be

28:38

quite as flippant about calling

28:41

for people to be fired. When

28:43

I went through it in Detroit, I was also the

28:45

president. I had fifty

28:47

people under me, and I had

28:49

a lot of damn good people

28:52

who were good professionals

28:54

and good people who were just

28:57

trying to support their families and

28:59

stuff who were out of work. And

29:03

I don't think fans realize that when

29:05

they have the bloodlust, they do.

29:08

To get rid of it, to get rid of guys.

29:12

No, I totally hear you.

29:12

And look, I don't want to make myself sound like a saint, but

29:14

there was a situation earlier this week where I

29:17

heard about some coaching changes

29:19

with a Western Conference team,

29:21

and it's like, you know, I don't know, do I really

29:23

want to do we really need to list these assistants

29:26

who are not hugely public

29:28

figures but they've lost their

29:30

jobs.

29:30

Like it's just it is. It's a I mean.

29:32

Assistant coaching now is

29:35

so ridiculously volatile.

29:36

Like assistant coaching, you are.

29:38

Literally going year to year almost

29:41

unless you are you know, maybe it's different if

29:43

you are the number one guy attached

29:45

to a really marquee

29:47

coach, but I mean, assistant coaching is just

29:50

zero security at this point.

29:52

Well, it's really it's

29:55

just really hard. And what I say to people

29:58

all the time, you know, if I'm talking especially

30:01

to young coaches

30:03

or guys that are out trying to

30:06

get back in things like

30:08

that, and this would apply I think

30:11

to the.

30:11

College level as where as well as

30:13

the NBA level.

30:14

I just say, look, I've been

30:17

at this a long time, and

30:20

I know for a fact there's

30:22

far more good coaches than

30:24

there are jobs. Whether we're

30:26

talking head coaching jobs or assistant

30:28

coaching jobs.

30:30

There's a lot more good coaches than there are

30:32

jobs.

30:32

That's just the way it is, and

30:35

it's really really competitive,

30:38

and so if you're gonna be in

30:40

this, you just

30:42

got to accept the craziness

30:45

for what it is.

30:47

This might have already happened, because

30:50

if I was in his position, I would certainly be calling

30:52

you for advice.

30:53

What do you do if your.

30:54

Phone rings and JJ Reddick

30:56

is asking you should I take a

30:58

high profile coach job.

31:00

In the NBA with no NBA

31:04

experience?

31:04

Like, what what would you suggest if

31:07

he asked you or asked for your wisdom?

31:11

Well, listen, I mean I think

31:13

this probably with every opportunity, Mark, I'd

31:15

probably be the same.

31:16

And you know, in your business

31:19

and everything.

31:20

Else, it probably the ideal

31:22

that wouldn't be the ideal path to

31:25

becoming a head coach.

31:26

The ideal path you would get some experience

31:29

and everything else, but.

31:32

You don't get to pick when your opportunities

31:34

are going to come, and there's only

31:36

thirty of these jobs. And

31:39

so if he came to me and said, hey, I've got a

31:41

chance at this.

31:43

You know, I'd say jump at it.

31:46

You know.

31:46

Look, Jason Kidd did it right

31:49

after his coaching career.

31:52

Ended, and now he's bounced to his

31:54

third job.

31:55

But I always thought that

31:58

Jason was a good coach. I don't think

32:01

there is a There's

32:03

not just one path to becoming

32:06

a successful coach. And

32:08

so there's guys out there

32:11

that were never assistant. Steve Kerr

32:13

was never an assistant. Then you've got

32:15

Eric Spolster who came from the video room

32:17

to the booth or to the

32:20

bench and then was in it, you know,

32:22

didn't get to the head coaching job. There's

32:25

just not one path to get

32:27

there. And so even

32:29

if the path isn't ideal or

32:31

it comes with certain challenges, if

32:34

you get an opportunity, there's

32:36

only thirty of these jobs, you got to take

32:38

it when the opportunity comes.

32:42

I have my last question on this coach, and I want to ask

32:44

the style.

32:45

Want to ask you about the playoffs stand So

32:47

Stein brought in about how you know

32:50

there's almost a built dance scapegoat

32:53

clause into coaches contract, So

32:55

I want to know how much

32:57

should that escapegoat clause

33:00

account for?

33:00

Like it, since we already have a we

33:02

already have us.

33:03

You already know that the coach is going to be the first

33:06

one to be let go.

33:08

It seems like I should be public, all right.

33:10

This coach gets this high profile NBA

33:13

job, he has a two million dollar

33:15

scapegoat.

33:20

Well, look, Chris, I mean, I don't know.

33:23

From what I've read, Frank's walking away

33:26

with twenty plus million

33:28

dollars.

33:29

I don't know what Darvin's walking away

33:31

with.

33:31

But but listen, it is

33:33

built into what we do as

33:35

head coaches, and we.

33:37

All walk away with pretty

33:39

good money.

33:39

Again, Like I

33:42

look at stuff and I shake my head with

33:44

the decisions are made. But

33:48

I won't really talk about fairness

33:50

because this is just the job. And

33:53

if we want to get down to fairness, we also

33:55

have to say, you know, why

33:58

do you get six eight

34:01

ten million dollars a year to

34:03

coach an NBA team and teachers get

34:05

sixty thousand to do something that's actually

34:07

important? So fairness is out

34:09

the window. You know, I

34:12

don't worry about that. But the salary

34:14

does build in and again that's

34:16

why when these things come

34:18

down, I do empathize

34:21

with the coaches because

34:23

I've been there. I empathize with them,

34:25

but I sympathize with

34:28

the guys Mark was talking about the assistant

34:30

coaches, their families, and even

34:33

lower down the totem pole, the

34:35

player development guys,

34:38

you know, the video people, all

34:40

of those people who are out of work

34:43

when a new regime comes

34:45

in. That's who I reserve my

34:47

sympathy for.

34:59

So we're record this in the afternoon,

35:01

so it's before the Friday night game,

35:03

so it's kind of hard for us to dig into the

35:06

action that's gonna unfold shortly

35:09

after we wrap this up.

35:10

But I did want to ask you.

35:11

I know, you guys in particular, have

35:13

been locked in on the Knicks and the Pacers,

35:16

and you're you've been working in the East, I

35:18

think really first round and second round. But Minnesota

35:21

Denver going into this game

35:23

three Friday night. Again, we're

35:26

finishing this pod before that game is played.

35:28

Butt what Minnesota has done

35:31

in these first two games to discombobulate

35:34

the Nuggets to win two games

35:36

in Denver, which is just about as tough a place

35:38

to play as there is on the

35:41

NBA map. Just wanted to get your impressions

35:44

about this Wolves team and are

35:46

we do we actually have a new title

35:48

favorite in the NBA right now?

35:51

Well, I don't know about that.

35:53

I mean, i'd say we certainly

35:55

have a new Western Conference favorite maybe,

35:57

but they and Boston

35:59

would be the too. But what they have done to

36:01

Denver, I'm with you, it's been absolutely

36:04

incredible.

36:06

And they even.

36:07

Dominated Game two defensively

36:09

without Rudy Gobert. I mean, you

36:11

know, so you took the defensive

36:13

player of the year out and you

36:16

still frustrated the

36:18

Denver Nuggets. And I think

36:20

what's been amazing is

36:22

the way they've been able to defend Yo

36:25

Kitchen Murray like because Yo

36:28

Kitchen Murray have proven

36:30

over the years. These are two guys

36:33

who have been able to raise their level

36:36

in the playoffs. I mean, these are two

36:38

of the best playoff performers

36:40

we've had in the recent history.

36:43

Of the NBA.

36:44

They've got Yo Kic shooting forty two

36:46

percent from the floor and turning the

36:48

ball over eleven times in

36:51

two games.

36:52

And they got Murray.

36:53

Averaging twelve and a half points on twenty

36:55

eight percent.

36:56

From the floor.

36:57

That's phenomenal. And if you would

36:59

have going into the series.

37:02

That Edwards

37:05

and Towns.

37:07

Were going to totally outplay

37:09

Yokichen Murray, somebody would

37:12

have told you you were crazy. You would

37:14

have been happy if they could have held their own

37:16

And Anthony Edwards and Karl Anthony

37:19

Towns are not only averaging thirty

37:21

five and twenty three and a half, but

37:24

they're both shooting over sixty percent

37:26

from the floor. This has been total

37:29

domination. And then the next

37:31

factor, obviously is.

37:33

The bench play.

37:34

Minnesota with nas Reed and

37:37

Nikhil Alexander Walker have been

37:39

phenomenal.

37:40

And that Denver bench, which we knew.

37:42

All along was gonna be a problem,

37:45

has really really struggled

37:47

only thirty three points total

37:50

in one hundred and seven minutes. So

37:52

it's been domination. I mean, it's

37:55

impossible to find an area

37:57

a part of the game where

38:00

you feel like Denver

38:02

has been as good or better that gotten to the line

38:05

twelve more times.

38:06

I guess that's it. But

38:09

it's been domination.

38:11

Man, Minnesota has looked great, and

38:13

that was after dominating

38:15

Phoenix in the in the

38:17

first round.

38:18

So this is a great six game

38:20

run so far.

38:22

I didn't want to ask you about the coaching situation though,

38:24

because I mean, I feel sick for Chris Finch

38:27

not being able to you know, this is his moment. This

38:29

is a guy who started coaching in England,

38:32

which is by no means a basketball

38:34

country. Can you I cannot remember

38:36

that happening where a head coach got sustained

38:40

an injury to the point that he could not stand

38:42

at the front of the bench.

38:44

Yeah.

38:45

Look, it's terrible and I agree

38:47

with you, especially with Chris

38:50

Finch's journey and how long

38:52

he had to work and wait to get this

38:55

opportunity.

38:56

And the unbelievable job

38:59

he has done.

38:59

The because I'm gonna say ninety percent

39:02

of us in the

39:04

NBA world when they

39:06

decided to put

39:08

the two big guys together go Bear

39:11

in Towns didn't see it

39:13

ever working. And it did

39:15

work, and Chris Binch was the one to make it

39:17

work. And they've done such a

39:19

great job. He should be front

39:21

and center right now where everybody could look at

39:23

him. I will say, I don't know Chris

39:26

real well. He doesn't seem to

39:28

me like the type of guy who really cares,

39:31

doesn't need to be out front. He

39:33

just wants the team to win. It's certainly still

39:36

his team. He's the guy in charge,

39:38

and he and Mike and Nori are

39:41

teaming up to do it

39:43

very very well.

39:45

Chris will get plenty of recognition, as

39:47

he should.

39:48

But yes, I feel for him

39:51

not being to be out there in the front

39:53

of the bench where everybody's where

39:55

everybody's looking at him right now, because

39:58

the job he's done is certainly front

40:00

and center.

40:02

Stan, We've been on the New York Pacers

40:04

series and we don't have three and four ESPN,

40:07

ABC do they have those

40:10

two games?

40:11

We have game five.

40:12

If it gets to a game five, Stan, what

40:14

was your experience like Game two? Reggie

40:16

Miller's in the broadcast booth with

40:19

you, and some

40:22

chats started raining down towards

40:24

the end of the game, and Josh Hart even

40:26

came over and reiterated

40:28

what the fans were saying.

40:30

What was that.

40:30

Experience like for you to be right there with Reggie?

40:33

I mean, it was incredible. I don't think

40:36

I've ever been at a game where

40:40

a broadcaster was

40:42

so front and center. I mean, you

40:45

know, I think Pacers nicks

40:47

the history of that Reggie being

40:49

back, and like Reggie said, he'd been

40:51

in that building as a broadcaster plenty

40:54

of times, but not in a PACER's

40:56

Knicks playoff game. And

41:00

man, I certainly have never seen a broadcaster

41:04

getting chanted.

41:05

At like that.

41:06

I mean, f you, Reggie,

41:09

I mean and I guess Josh Hart

41:11

was just worried that

41:13

that maybe through the headsets we

41:15

didn't hear it. He wanted

41:18

to be clear, because to be clear,

41:21

Josh didn't come over with any nalice

41:24

in his mannerisms or his voice.

41:26

He just hey, I just wanted to make

41:28

sure you know what they're saying.

41:31

It was unbelievable, but Reggie was

41:34

a was a really good sport

41:36

all night. And Reggie's not

41:38

only a great broadcaster, not only

41:40

was a great player, but he's one of the

41:43

great ambassadors of the game, and

41:45

I think he understands his

41:47

role in promoting the NBA.

41:50

So it was a.

41:51

Lot of fun to

41:54

be there. I'm sure you felt it too,

41:56

you know, Brian sort of after orchestrated

41:59

everything, Rian Anderson and then Reggie

42:01

was there as the focal plane

42:04

and we had a great game to go with

42:06

too.

42:08

Probably my most enjoyable.

42:10

Night of U of broadcasting

42:12

in UH in the four years I've

42:15

done it.

42:15

Yeah, I was about to ask did you feel safe

42:18

that night sitting next to Reggie? I don't have to sit next

42:20

to y'all.

42:22

Coming. Yeah, I thought about, you

42:25

know, I thought about.

42:26

Wearing a helmet. I thought we might get some stuff

42:28

thrown at us.

42:29

But but we didn't, so

42:32

that was okay.

42:33

And we didn't have Reggie walk over with

42:35

us Christy Arena. We walked ourselves

42:38

so we didn't have to deal with that. We had to got

42:40

to sneak Reggie into the building. So

42:43

uh, but no, it was uh, it

42:45

was a lot of fun and and Reggie's

42:47

always uh always great to work

42:50

with, as you know.

42:51

Yeah, well, well stand

42:53

man, I held you longer than I then

42:55

I asked request it. I want to say

42:57

thank you for for coming on man. I

43:00

I enjoy I just want to tell you for first of

43:02

all, I enjoy your friendship. I appreciate that, but

43:04

I enjoy just hearing you talk hoops

43:06

man. Like when we're in those meetings

43:08

with the coaches before the game, sty and

43:11

you was just here, Stan and Spostra

43:14

whoever, They're just talking

43:17

shop basketball, hoops this, and I was like,

43:19

I just like listening and taking all

43:21

that stuff in and on top of that is

43:23

personality and everything.

43:24

Man.

43:25

One thing about Stan. Stan

43:27

doesn't bullshit anybody. He's

43:29

gonna tell you what he sees, and

43:32

oftentimes he's telling the coaches, no,

43:34

that's not what's happening.

43:35

This is what.

43:41

Every once in a while, only if they

43:43

asked, you know, like you

43:45

didn't think we played hard and shit, no I didn't,

43:48

you know.

43:52

Now, those meetings are priceless, of course,

43:54

ninety eight percent, which is not

43:56

supposed to it's never supposed to leave the

43:58

room, but.

43:59

They are like on on radio.

44:00

I got to go to some of those with Hubie and just watch

44:02

Hubie hub grill some of these

44:05

guys, which I always enjoyed. So yeah, now I'm

44:07

sure I would love to see a Stanspo

44:10

pregame coaches meeting session.

44:13

Mark, I'm glad you brought Hubee up when

44:15

I was coaching. He was absolutely

44:18

the best in those meetings. I'll never

44:20

forget. I had, you

44:23

know, Dwayne Wade as a rookie and

44:25

he had a great rookie year. We went to the second

44:27

round, lost to Indiana. But Hubie

44:30

would come in for those games and he would say,

44:33

Stan, Dwayne Wade

44:37

leads the NBA in turnovers.

44:39

So I just like him, what are you

44:42

gonna do about that? You

44:47

know? Boy? You know he

44:49

was the best because he was

44:51

so prepared.

44:53

He never he never came

44:55

at you just with like some opinion

44:58

off the top of his head.

44:59

He drilled down on it. He'd watched

45:02

he'd looked at the numbers.

45:03

And he was gonna ask you

45:06

the uh, the real

45:08

deal on questions and stuff, and

45:10

you knew you were gonna gonna

45:12

have to be ready to answer him. So QB's

45:15

one of the greats in the business, both as a coach

45:17

and a broadcaster. Always

45:19

appreciated talking to him. I

45:22

still appreciate listening to him.

45:26

I've always had great respect for

45:29

the older guys, the guys that came

45:31

before me in coaching,

45:33

and I've learned a lot from QB.

45:36

Brown over the years.

45:39

Used to go to his training camps when he was

45:41

with the next attended coaching.

45:44

Clinics that he did.

45:46

Great privilege to have been able to

45:48

hear QUB Brown through the years.

45:52

I'm going to end it with this, SBG.

45:55

You know, obviously, as a sideline

45:58

reporter, a part of my

46:00

job is interviewing the coaches during the game, and

46:02

a lot of times, depending on the game, and depending

46:04

on the time and circumstance, that

46:07

can be a tough task. At

46:10

the end of the first quarter is pretty

46:13

easy dealing with a coach. Not

46:15

much, not much can go wrong in the first quarter.

46:17

A lot of times it does, but not much. But

46:19

the end of the third, going to that fourth, that's when

46:21

the coaches really are trying to get get

46:24

into their game plan. And so again

46:27

it depends on I dictate,

46:29

like at the end of the third quarter out

46:31

you know, depending on if the coach went on

46:33

a if the coach is on the wrong

46:36

end of a ten to oh run to

46:38

close that quarter off, I know that coach

46:41

is not in the move to talk. So I mainly

46:43

asked one question, but stay, I remember you

46:45

told the story.

46:46

I want to end it with that.

46:47

I remember you told a story about your experiences

46:50

and dealing with sideline reporters and how

46:52

you had.

46:53

To adapt over time. Can you talk about

46:55

that?

46:56

Yeah, I think it was probably the year

46:58

we were going to the final in

47:00

two thousand and nine and my brother was

47:03

broadcasting for ABC,

47:07

and you know, my brother

47:09

just said to me, like, hey,

47:12

you know what, you got to.

47:13

Be better with least a salter.

47:15

She was a sideline reporter said, you

47:18

know, I know nobody likes to do those.

47:21

He said, she knows nobody likes to

47:23

do.

47:23

Those, but it's her job. You

47:25

owe her more respect

47:28

and understand that. And

47:31

it changed me for the rest of the time.

47:33

I'm not saying I was always the best

47:35

guy, like Michael Malone's probably the

47:38

beast, right.

47:39

I mean, he's fantastic.

47:41

But the one thing with

47:43

my brother is, you

47:45

know you talked about me telling the truth my

47:48

brother.

47:50

You know, we all need people

47:52

in our lives. I firmly believe

47:54

this.

47:55

You need people in your life who

47:57

will tell you the truth, not

47:59

just what you want to hear. And my brother's

48:01

always been that guy for me. He just

48:03

told me the truth, which was basically,

48:06

you're being an asshole, Like you

48:08

know, you don't need to be that short

48:10

with the answers are rude. Answer her questions.

48:13

That's her job. And I've tried to do that since

48:17

because he, you

48:21

know, just changed my perspective.

48:23

And I think most guys in

48:25

the media would say that. Through my years,

48:27

I know I had my moments, but for the most time

48:29

part I was good with the media

48:32

because I had the appreciation that

48:35

you know, everybody in the media has got their

48:37

jobs to do too, and

48:40

so you've got to give them the respect

48:42

that they're due.

48:43

And that was that moment.

48:45

Changed me with those with

48:47

those sideline reports, and you

48:50

guys have tough jobs when you're doing that, and you're right

48:52

the into the first quarter, no big deal,

48:55

into the third quarter, you

48:57

know. I remember one

48:59

I had one interview Chris where we're

49:02

down like eighteen and you know the cutoffs

49:04

twenty down twenty.

49:06

We don't do the interview, and I Forkid

49:08

who was doing.

49:09

The sideline, and I said, well, hell, the

49:11

only thing that could have happened if we could have given up

49:13

one more bucket, at least.

49:15

I wouldn't have to do that.

49:18

So I mean, my god, if

49:20

we're gonna get blown out anyway, go ahead.

49:23

Makes as bad as can But.

49:26

I got better with those, and I got my brother,

49:28

as I do for a lot of things.

49:30

I've got my brother sent for that.

49:32

We need that podcast someday, man, we

49:34

need the world.

49:35

According to the Van Gundy's.

49:37

Podcast Classic, it

49:39

will be a classic.

49:41

I don't think it would be as good as you guys think.

49:43

I think we became fridge sights all the time.

49:45

Like, can you believe all the dumb

49:47

crap these dude.

49:48

Just said I

49:50

would be a classic?

49:52

And Stan has comed Stan

49:55

is not the same Stan he was on social

49:57

media.

50:00

Years ago.

50:01

No, No, my wife got me off social

50:03

media and my mood

50:06

has been better for the last two years.

50:08

Social media when.

50:09

You get into the political stuff, yeah,

50:12

social media takes on a whole

50:14

new thing. And I was just

50:17

fighting and angry all the time. So

50:19

now I still get angry.

50:21

About political stuff, but it doesn't.

50:22

Rub up because I'm not on there having

50:25

people piss me off even more.

50:27

No, I hear you stay social

50:30

media, man, I don't want to get on that.

50:32

That's another topic for another day. Thank

50:35

you, brother. I see you got the sun out there. I

50:37

see the palm trees breezing.

50:39

Man, like God leda, I look so

50:41

beautiful, man.

50:43

This is what this is what I call work

50:45

right here, this

50:48

is beautiful. We'll stand.

50:49

I appreciate you for coming on, man, we've

50:51

been waiting for that. Thank you for your time.

50:55

I hopefully will see you Game five

50:57

in New York.

50:58

Absolutely, thanks so much for

51:00

doing it, and

51:04

that'll do it for us.

51:05

See you next time.

51:08

This league Uncut is an iHeartRadio Production

51:13

Loca Chris

51:15

Haynes and Mark Stein