The Salem Witch Trials
The Salem Witch Trials
The Salem Witch Trials
Episode Transcript
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Enjoy whatever show this is you're going to listen to.
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Thanks. Bye. On
0:36
this episode of those conspiracy guys,
0:39
we discuss one of history's most enduring mysteries
0:42
and a case that more than three centuries later
0:44
is still being referred to in common culture as
0:47
a paragon of injustice, the epitome
0:49
of political subterfuge, and the perfect
0:51
example of utilizing fear and
0:53
ideological fervor to manipulate and
0:55
malign even the most
0:57
innocent. This time,
0:59
we're talking about the Salem Witch Trials. The
1:03
Salem Witch Trials were a result of various factors
1:05
including religious beliefs, toxic
1:08
poisoning, family dynamics, class
1:10
conflicts, and fear. The trials
1:12
led to the deaths of 20 people and the criminal
1:14
conviction of 30 more, with
1:16
a total of 162 individuals, including
1:19
men, women, and children as young as four, being accused
1:22
of witchcraft.
1:25
The main culprits in this cautionary tale were the
1:27
religious Puritans who settled in Salem
1:29
to escape persecution in England. These
1:32
kind of trials were not just isolated to Salem, Massachusetts,
1:35
even though that was the name synonymous with witchcraft
1:37
for centuries after, and the unjust
1:39
and frankly ridiculous legal proceedings
1:42
reflected larger political and social tensions
1:44
of the time.
1:47
Witchcraft itself is only mentioned a few times
1:49
in the Bible, with punishments described for
1:51
those who practice it and the definitions and limitations
1:53
of practices which were classed as witchcraft.
1:57
In medieval Europe, witches were seen as devil
1:59
worshippers. and practitioners of dark magic.
2:02
Accusations of witchcraft often included
2:05
fantastical elements like flying on broomsticks,
2:08
putting curses on people and shape-shifting, but
2:10
these were fabricated by inquisitors
2:12
and theologians and made into fairy tales
2:14
by the likes of the Brothers Grimm who took inspiration
2:17
from Germanic folklore. The
2:20
Salem Witch Trials themselves took place between February 1692
2:24
and May 1693 in Danvers,
2:26
Massachusetts. It was a period of intense
2:29
political and religious fervour that
2:31
led to the frivolous accusations and farcical
2:33
legal proceedings. The
2:36
trials were sparked by the accusations of young
2:38
girls, including most infamously Betty
2:41
Parrish and Abigail Williams, who
2:44
exhibited seemingly supernatural symptoms
2:46
of the afflictions of witchcraft.
2:49
These alarming symptoms which afflicted
2:51
many people of the time is now believed
2:53
to have been caused by ergot poisoning and
2:56
they include fits, contortions and speaking
2:58
in tongues and basically tripping your balls off.
3:02
This ergot, also known as Saint Anthony's
3:04
fire, is a fungus that grows on rye
3:06
and has been often historically associated with
3:08
witchcraft due to its hallucinogenic properties.
3:11
There are also suggestions that the girls
3:14
involved in the trials were just faking
3:16
these known afflictions supported by their
3:18
parents who had political motives for their accusations
3:21
in a bid for power in
3:23
the new world they now inhabited. So
3:27
were these young women actually witches bent
3:29
on cursing the people of the new world?
3:32
Were these young women afflicted by the antithesis
3:34
of the Christian religious fervour of their parents
3:37
and devout diaspora?
3:40
Was the whole thing a charade concocted
3:43
by puritanical power-hungry politicians?
3:47
Is witchcraft even real or was it just
3:49
a fabrication to subjugate potentially
3:51
independent women in a new colony far
3:53
from the direct control of the English church?
3:57
Why is Salem, Massachusetts
3:59
the most famous place? place in the US for this type of
4:01
event?
4:04
Could this have been a real supernatural event
4:06
that has been explained away with a modern political
4:09
or sociological reasoning?
4:12
Or was it simply another case of people
4:15
looking to maintain control over a populace
4:17
by utilizing fear, manipulation
4:20
and deeply held core beliefs
4:22
to get a swift legal reaction before
4:24
reason and justice can truly prevail?
4:29
So join us, co-conspirators, to
4:31
discuss all this and more as we hop
4:34
on the slippery broom of intrigue and
4:36
fly through the night towards the tumbledown
4:38
forest cottage where justice silently resides.
4:41
To examine one of modern society's finest
4:43
examples of the devastatingly permanent
4:46
bounty that can be reaped from unchecked
4:48
religious fanaticism and feverish,
4:50
puritanical outrage.
4:52
This time, on Those
4:54
Conspiracy Guys, we're talking
4:56
about the Salem Witch Trials.
5:00
Hitler, Roswell,
5:02
JFK, Crypto, Zoology and
5:05
NSA, Global Woman and 11 Government
5:08
Lies, Tell them all about it, those
5:10
conspiracy guys. Oh and
5:15
welcome
5:18
to another episode of Those Conspiracy
5:21
Guys, this time we're donning
5:23
the little pointy hat and
5:25
turn our leg over a greasy
5:27
broomstick to fly all the way
5:29
into Salem Massachusetts 1692
5:32
to investigate a set of,
5:35
I think, some of the most egregious
5:37
legal shenanigans that ever went down
5:41
under under God's Blue Sky, some
5:43
of the most famous and
5:46
probably most legally questionable
5:48
trials of our
5:51
time. And then join me
5:53
in the studio to, I don't want
5:56
to say up and comer because I've already opened, I've already come.
5:59
Definitely top level comedy
6:03
talent in the His House. You've already heard
6:05
from them on previous episodes. We have
6:07
in the blue corner, the sleepy
6:09
comedian.
6:10
Bop, bop, bop. Self titled. She's bringing
6:13
dungareens back. She
6:16
was on the Robert Burchtold episode. I'd
6:18
like to welcome into the studio, uh, Elish
6:21
McCarthy. Welcome.
6:23
Hi everybody. I'm good.
6:25
Thanks for having me back. I'm glad I didn't get
6:27
banned and I'm glad I, Oh, not at all. It's
6:30
like, give me some more of those, uh,
6:33
uh, alien pedophile stories.
6:34
I have
6:37
a great one for you. And the,
6:39
uh, proprietor of the podcast,
6:41
bad book bash, uh, comedian,
6:44
extraordinary, and America's
6:47
loss is Ireland's gain. Uh,
6:49
miss Betsy spare. How are you doing?
6:51
I'm doing great. Great to be back Gordo,
6:53
uh, all the way from shy town. Yeah.
6:56
Originally, originally, uh, Chicago
6:58
suburbs. Specifically suburban trash.
7:01
Chicago shout out. We go.
7:03
It's pale trash. You
7:05
call the pale, pale trash. Is that it? Yeah.
7:07
Um, yeah. So just so the people can adjust
7:10
their ear holes, uh, do you, you will be talking
7:12
to an American accent for the entire show? Well,
7:14
this is my accent. I'm not going to appropriate
7:17
any cultures. I'm also bad at accents.
7:20
I can do as Southern accent because most
7:22
of my family are rednecks. So, um, I
7:24
feel like I'm entitled to that.
7:26
Yes. That's the R word that we're allowed to say.
7:28
That's the R word. Yes. The last acceptable racism.
7:31
Um, so ladies, we are going
7:33
to talk about the Salem witch trials
7:36
on this episode. Uh, loads of twists,
7:38
loads of turns in this 300 year
7:40
old, uh, legal
7:43
debacle.
7:44
Um, some of the things you may have heard before, some
7:47
of the things you definitely have not, and,
7:49
uh, it's going to be loads of fun, loads of
7:51
frolics. If you want to hear more
7:54
from me and you want to get
7:56
into the deep weeds of those
7:58
conspiracy guys, uh, there's. link in the description
8:00
below with all the social media stuff. You click on it and
8:02
it'll tell you all the stuff that's there. Loads of stuff
8:05
has been cancelled. Loads of fucking video
8:07
platforms and social media platforms. Discord is dead.
8:09
YouTube, Vimeo,
8:12
all these motherfuckers getting their hair
8:14
up their arse and a pole up their hole and fucking
8:17
me off all these things for shit that was said six
8:19
or seven years ago to dead men like John
8:22
McAfee. Pain in the fucking scraw.
8:25
So whatever is there, I fed up with calling them all
8:27
out because they change all the time. So there's a link with everything
8:29
in it, a place where we do live and I am
8:32
an ambassador of, I'm a Patreon ambassador. You
8:34
can go to patreon.com slash those conspiracy guys, support the
8:36
show. You get loads of behind the scenes stuff, ad
8:38
free episodes, loads of cool shit and there's loads
8:40
of soundbasters on there supporting
8:43
this lifestyle, supporting this show and
8:45
supporting this content and I love you for it. Thank
8:47
you so much. If you want to be one of those
8:49
people, patreon.com. One of those soundbasterds, yeah. Or
8:51
soundbasterds. Patreon.com
8:53
slash those conspiracy guys. Link as well in the description.
8:56
And instead of Discord, we have a thing called
8:58
Gilded. It's almost exactly the same as Discord. It's
9:00
a clone app.
9:03
Discord got a little bit sensory there a little
9:05
while ago. They changed the community guidelines and a bunch of
9:08
my conspiracy cohorts got their communities
9:10
booted and for fear of that happening, I
9:13
just removed our server and moved to a different
9:15
thing. So if you want to bounce over there, it's all
9:17
the same stuff, just in a different home and a link
9:19
for that as well. Same shared
9:21
link. Now I want to talk about your guys's
9:23
stuff. You guys are fucking smashing it on
9:25
the scene. I'm in a comedy
9:27
a long time and the atmosphere
9:29
has changed. The personnel
9:32
have changed. People have gone up, people have
9:34
moved away, other people have come up and
9:37
it's a very hard thing to keep a finger
9:39
on the pulse of. I ran a club in Dublin for a long time
9:41
when I was out scouting new talent and
9:43
not in the way they do around, you know, the
9:45
American clubs where you have to, I don't know, stand
9:48
in a room when a man masturbates in the doorway.
9:50
I just used to do it the old fashioned way where I just
9:52
sit down the back of the club and do it in my court instead.
9:55
But you guys have,
9:57
I mean, it's the polite thing
9:59
to do girls.
9:59
I
10:03
didn't, I didn't have the audacity to, uh,
10:06
to do it right in front of you.
10:08
I ran a club. I had a lot of new talent
10:10
in and it wasn't like, I remember, uh,
10:13
amazing people like Neve Marin, who was one, like
10:15
one of the greats in my mind of, uh, um,
10:17
Irish comedy. You guys are well
10:20
up and have already come. You're
10:22
not open comers anymore.
10:22
That's a huge company. I would say so.
10:26
Tell us a little bit about, uh, a little bit about your
10:29
comedy chops. You're at the sleepy
10:31
comedian on all the social media.
10:33
I am at the sleep comedian. I'm laughing at the video
10:35
went to me and I went, Oh my goodness. Like a deer in headlights.
10:39
It's hard looking at your face the whole time. I'm really used to it.
10:41
Yeah. Well, I was also, when you said this is visual,
10:43
I was also laughing that I was like, I moonlight as
10:46
a painter as well, or, uh, or a children's
10:47
entertainer. Like
10:50
that's just like, who did you bring
10:52
over? She
10:55
from, what is it? The den. Yeah.
11:01
Like, obviously what is it back in January, 2020, everybody
11:04
took a career break because that was just the thing to
11:06
do.
11:06
Yeah. Forced, forced sabbatical.
11:09
Yeah. And, uh, I was
11:11
very fortunate to do a podcast, which Gordo
11:13
yourself was on, um, with the party tits.
11:16
So the one thing that was canceled were parties. So everybody
11:18
was doing a podcast and we're like, how do we, you know, have
11:21
like a different hook and what's the only thing that's been canceled
11:23
parties? So we had like dress up parties
11:25
and it was kind of,
11:26
it was all great crack. Yeah. Ben
11:29
Virt and a Keigo, that's right. The co-hosts.
11:31
I hope to have been on this show quite soon. Yeah.
11:34
Uh, if he'll, uh, if he'd get up off his whole and answer,
11:37
answer all my Muslim emails, he's
11:39
very busy
11:39
man. It was a, it was great crack crack.
11:42
Yeah. You did costume parties and you did all the art
11:44
and hobby shops were closed. So we like, it was
11:46
very endearing, you know, making our own costumes
11:48
and stuff, but, um, now we like,
11:50
I kept busy. I was, you know,
11:53
uh, there was this thing that's come out. It hasn't really caught on
11:55
yet. It's called Tik TOK and I went
11:57
on it. It's coming.
12:00
It's up and coming. It's going to be there. But
12:02
yeah, a couple of videos went viral, which is nice. And then from
12:04
that, I've been able to get a bit of work. But I have
12:06
a couple of stuff coming up. So obviously, this was
12:08
one of the big highlights that was coming up. I was telling people
12:10
about it. Thank you very much. And thank
12:13
you for having me back. And then another one was, I'm
12:15
going to be doing a show with Archie,
12:18
a program that's been releasing
12:21
season two, Life Changing Moments.
12:23
Wow. So that
12:25
is. What was your
12:27
life changing moments? So comedy,
12:29
which is kind of great, which is also self-promotion,
12:33
letting people know that I do comedy and
12:35
use it in the RT Airwives. Why else are we going
12:37
to fuck a telly, lads? Come on. Yeah,
12:39
exactly. How can I shoehorn in my
12:41
real passion into
12:42
something? How
12:45
can I push that? If people
12:47
know, I guess in America, the
12:51
televisual landscape is kind of a bit
12:53
fractured with all the different channels
12:56
and networks and all this kind of stuff. But if you're
12:58
in Ireland and you're on RTE, which is
13:00
Radio Telefisiere, it's
13:03
the channel. It's probably the only
13:05
channel for many, many,
13:08
many. That's
13:10
what we got satellite.
13:11
The BBC for the Brits and RTE
13:13
for the Irish. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. It's
13:15
the BBC of Ireland. So
13:17
it's no small feat to be on there
13:19
to be featured on something.
13:20
So congrats to you. Thank you very much. So
13:22
I'm super excited by that. I'm going into their studio
13:25
next week. And they're like, by the way, it's going to be video recorders
13:27
as well. And I was like, OK, I'll wear my dungarees for that.
13:29
I press my new white ones. I
13:32
might even wear my denim ones so that it looks like I've changed my clothes.
13:34
You know what I mean? Sometimes. You're
13:36
building a brand. But like sometimes
13:39
if I have a gig, so my promotional photos
13:41
is me in the blue suit. If I have a gig in the blue suit, I look like
13:43
I haven't changed my clothes.
13:44
For years and years. And
13:47
the hair has grown. Like,
13:50
does she change her clothes? Yeah, it's like Hillary Clinton
13:52
changing her suits for each debate. I'm
13:57
going to show you a red one and then a white one. A
13:59
blue one.
13:59
one. You're like, we knew what was coming next. And
14:02
you can be seen like you're gigging like a legend
14:04
all over Dublin, all over Ireland. In fact, all
14:06
over Ireland, getting like mad. I'm going
14:08
to a limerick next
14:10
weekend on the 9th of April for whatever, whenever
14:12
this comes out, maybe it's in the past. Okay.
14:16
And plugging in the gigs on this, but we definitely
14:19
put your link tree in the description. So the,
14:21
and I put my gigs up on that. Yeah. Wherever you are,
14:23
like a people can come and find you. And I mean, in a
14:25
gig fashion, not I want to,
14:28
I want to, I'm a dungaree collector. We
14:32
don't need to pee with the people end up with the boots of cares
14:34
and the dungareeans on the wall kind of like, don't
14:36
follow her that way.
14:37
Yeah. I don't know that much
14:39
spare time. We're not, we're not into the stalker
14:41
business. But, um, yeah, so like
14:44
comedy is not, it's not, it's not an easy fucking slog.
14:47
I'm Betsy you, you as well. I work in
14:49
comedian. Yeah, that's true. I've got
14:51
a, got a day job and try to do comedy
14:53
when I can. Cause that's my passion. Yeah.
14:55
Yeah. It's a, it's a, that double job
14:58
on thing is fucking hard. I mean, I am
15:00
literally like blessed by the Lord
15:02
to, uh, I really am, but it didn't come out of
15:06
nowhere. I'm not going to focus. It came from hard
15:09
work here, but that's a
15:11
lot of hard work. Like we're doing this shit for 10 years
15:13
and like you guys know the slog, you're out
15:15
treading the boards and hunting for the gigs and
15:17
you know, smashing
15:20
a bomb and all the fucking shit and everything in between.
15:22
Like it's, you know, you've done an Edinburgh shows, Betsy.
15:24
Yeah. I was in, uh, the Edinburgh
15:26
fringe in 2019. I believe it was 2019. I
15:29
can't remember.
15:30
It might be the last one. 2018 or 2019.
15:33
I can't remember, but I was
15:35
in the show, uh, two birds, one show with,
15:39
uh, Una BAM and Emily Ashmore
15:41
and Pascal Giordano. And, uh,
15:43
yeah, two birds, one show. Well,
15:45
because we would just do two of us on
15:48
stage at a time
15:48
and swap it over. I tell you, Edinburgh
15:50
is like a gauntlet of comedy. It's like, it's like
15:53
the fucking, uh, uh, what's it called? The tough
15:55
mother.
15:56
It's like a marathon
15:58
with, with obstacles. It was like being a full time
16:00
fan. You're coming in shit mud. It's like
16:03
the trench is a comedy. Yeah, yeah. It's really
16:05
like World War I shit. Like you get Trent comedy
16:07
trench foot, which is alcohol poisoning.
16:09
I don't know how. I'm
16:12
losing my analogy here, but yeah, definitely
16:14
like, you know, you're. Yeah. Yeah. But
16:17
like the 15th day you're just blowing coke up each other's arses with
16:19
straws and just trying to hang on until the 28th
16:21
of August.
16:22
I haven't been to Edinburgh yet. Is this what I'm missing? For
16:24
the first two weeks. Yeah. Well,
16:27
also the flyer. I don't know. Because
16:29
you got to fly, you know, and like you, everyone
16:32
is flying for their show. So what I would do to stand
16:34
out because everyone ignores you and
16:35
stuff to a topless. Well, actually
16:38
what I would, I should have done a top. That's
16:40
the next for next time. Come to my show. Because
16:42
what I did the last time, the price, sick of my shit, people
16:45
would walk by and
16:46
I would say, wait,
16:48
please don't leave me like my dad did.
16:49
Amazing. And
16:52
then they would always stop and then they would always take one from
16:54
guilt or they would laugh. They'd
16:56
be like, that's funny. Yeah. Half my set
16:58
is like daddy issues.
16:59
And the thing is in saying that you're already
17:02
like laying a foundation for the people who would get you
17:04
anyway. Yeah, exactly. So if you don't respond well to that
17:06
shit, you're like, well, you don't let's not take a flight. If
17:09
you're offended by that, let's not take a flyer. It's a great, it's
17:11
a great litmus test. Or I
17:12
would, I would flirt with people.
17:15
Well, like, like, I would give like really lame
17:17
jokes. Like so me with my big American
17:19
accent, I would go up to these two women. I'm like, excuse
17:21
me, women, ladies, I'm sorry. I'm just a little
17:24
lost and I'm assuming you would know where
17:27
to go because you look like your police officers
17:30
and they'd be like, why, why would I be police officers?
17:32
And I was like, cause you got fine written all
17:34
over you. Oh, comedy show. And I'd pull up my
17:36
flyer. Come along. And they loved it.
17:38
They usually, they, they always laugh. I'm writing these things. I
17:41
felt like a dick because I would trick them.
17:44
Oh, I need help out of comedy show. So
17:46
your audience is predominantly a lonely,
17:49
older lesbian stand who are looking for. Yeah.
17:52
There were, there were a few older men who were like, she's talking
17:54
about daddy issues. Maybe there's a,
17:56
there's a sloth for me. I
17:58
can feel some sort of.
17:59
in her. Whatever gets the bombs and seats.
18:02
It is Edinburgh. Yeah, it's true. It's the hustle
18:04
ladies. That's it. Using your
18:06
terrible, terrible emotional
18:08
trauma. Yes, exactly. Both are
18:11
on and off stage. Got it.
18:13
Speaking of emotional trauma, you
18:16
do have a podcast based on
18:19
some of the most terrible. What a segue
18:21
I've ever read. Yes. It
18:23
hurts my heart to know that it exists sometimes.
18:26
And your show is the best place to
18:29
be introduced to these awful
18:31
works of tripe.
18:32
Exactly. The show is called Bad Book Bash.
18:35
Yes, Bad Book Bash. So
18:37
basically when I was younger, I was
18:40
one of those basic teenage bitches that read
18:42
Twilight and
18:44
the vampire diaries and all the
18:46
like horrible romantic fantasy stuff. And
18:48
I loved it. And then
18:49
the pillow thumpers, the pillow
18:51
thumpers, exactly. The left handed books. Yeah,
18:54
exactly. Oh, exactly. And then,
18:56
hold on, I was just trying to work that out. Left handed books.
18:59
I think it's liberal. Cause
19:01
it's left. Oh, I'm thinking left wing. No,
19:03
you know, no, it's a, it's a masturbation. Yeah.
19:06
It's a masturbation joke. What
19:08
are you doing with your right hand? You're
19:12
finishing off a thesis on sailing with
19:14
Charles. Drinking a cup of
19:16
tea while raising your little finger. Yeah,
19:19
exactly. It's called a podgepike.
19:23
But I read these books again as an
19:25
adult. I love the dynamic that
19:28
creates going. We're just going to
19:33
have to fill her in. We're just going to fill
19:35
her in. Good night.
19:39
But, uh, yeah, so I read these books
19:41
again as an adult and I was like, Oh, these are fucked
19:44
up. These are so rapey
19:47
and disgusting and it's like painted
19:49
as romantic. And there's always like 300 year
19:52
old men trying to bang 16 year old girls.
19:54
And as a 16 year old girl reading it, you're like, Oh
19:57
my God, this is so
19:57
hot. Yeah. And I need an older.
20:00
guy, maybe he drives a car. Yeah.
20:02
I need an older man to watch me sleep
20:04
and kidnap me to his castle in the middle
20:06
of England and then grope me. Like following,
20:08
how is this published?
20:09
Physically force himself on me and
20:11
then tell me that he lost me at the end. So I forget
20:14
that it was like non-consensual sex.
20:16
Exactly. Why is a 300 year old man? They're
20:19
always pretending to be a school
20:21
boy. Yes. Why is he
20:23
still, every day he gets up and
20:25
goes to school still. Like how
20:27
long before the teachers are like, why are you here
20:30
for my whole career? Like why can't you
20:32
not graduate it? Yes.
20:33
It's like, I understand like you look young, so
20:35
you want to try to fit. Why can't you at least pretend to be
20:37
a college student? Like just be, or even
20:39
just be like 21, like have like a part-time
20:42
job that you don't actually have to go to. Like the
20:44
amount of commitments that a fucking 300 year old vampire
20:46
who's in school, like he has to buy the new books every
20:49
year. Yeah.
20:49
And also at
20:52
the very least, like you have to keep up with all the fashions.
20:55
It's just so many
20:57
parameters that make no sense.
21:00
And this is what your, your, your, your podcast is
21:02
about. It's about books like that. And I roast
21:04
the shit out of that. I love it. It's
21:06
brilliant. I actually, I
21:07
had Darren Shannon, not to roast cause
21:10
I loved Darren Shannon. I love Darren Shannon. Darren Shannon
21:12
is amazing. He's
21:14
my favorite author of all time and he writes fantasy
21:18
and supernatural books the right way. So
21:20
had him on and I,
21:22
you did a little roster. One of his books, though,
21:24
was a little, I teased him a
21:26
little, but it wasn't like, it was like me being sarcastic.
21:28
I was like, I was like, Darren Shannon,
21:30
you know, Stephanie Meyer has like sold more books
21:32
than you. Don't you think if you like slut shamed
21:34
more in your books, you'd have, you'd be
21:37
as popular as her, you know, I was like teasing him
21:39
and he, he was all for, he was a, he would tease me
21:41
for being a ginger. And like, he was like, Oh, you're a ginger.
21:44
You have no soul. So, you know, you know, it was,
21:46
but it was good banter. Like I fucking love Darren
21:48
Shannon.
21:48
Yeah. The temptation I'm sure for
21:51
somebody like that to just like fully
21:53
like pull the brakes off and go right into like,
21:56
you
21:56
know, werewolf rape fantasy books, which
21:59
explain. inexplicably are still
22:02
quite popular. These are not books that were like released like
22:04
20 or 30 years ago, like before the, before
22:07
the common culture changed. It's being released
22:09
now. Like they're being released like last
22:12
year or like the year before. So
22:14
there's young girls reading this stuff and then like going
22:16
into their SPHE or going into their,
22:19
you know, health classes and being taught about sexual
22:21
health and consent and stuff. And then going, uh-huh.
22:23
Mm-hmm. Uh-huh. And then going home and
22:26
fucking tumping the fucking pillows
22:28
off the couch when they're
22:30
reading this, but like pulling the,
22:32
pulling the frills off the side of the fucking
22:34
decorative pillows on the sofa, reading
22:36
these fucking like crazy borderline
22:39
rape fantasy books. And you're like, what's
22:41
that center? I do think
22:44
that books like that and TV shows like
22:46
the sex is in the cities and the kind
22:49
of the mean girls. I know that's a com like,
22:51
that's a comedy, but that genre of
22:53
movie, the, the, the genuine
22:55
genre of that, what that represents
22:57
or whatever. Like that is as
23:00
detrimental to a
23:02
female sexual identity
23:04
and what sex should be and all that stuff as
23:08
like Pornhub and porn is to fellas.
23:10
Right. Because like fellas are watching porn. It's
23:13
almost always very like violent
23:15
in its movements. You know,
23:18
um,
23:19
made to be visual. It's made to be,
23:21
you know, it's not, there's no connection
23:23
in it at all. It's all very like
23:25
mad fucking like scientific closeups
23:28
and like,
23:28
it's all surface level. What
23:31
I'm saying is it's violent. It's, it's,
23:33
uh, the, the, the atmosphere in it is
23:35
almost like you can feet, like you're at
23:38
some point you're looking at it and you're going
23:40
like, what bad decisions did this girl
23:42
making her life to end up in this situation?
23:45
Yeah. And like, that's not something that makes the way stuff
23:47
come out
23:48
for, for, for, for like,
23:50
I'm nearly 40 now. Like it's kind of, yeah,
23:52
it's grand, but like, no. Um,
23:55
but those types of things for a
23:58
girl's burgeoning sexual. sexuality
24:01
is just as damaging as like a 14 or 15 year
24:03
old young fella watching a porno.
24:05
And then finally, when he gets out of a real
24:08
fanny in life, he just starts like punishing
24:10
it. Like it's a fucking, you know,
24:12
some kind of weird mood. And then the girl is like, why
24:15
are you doing this? And he's like, cause I've seen the video, look at the video
24:17
and then she tries to do it cause she thinks that's what
24:19
he wants. Do you know, like
24:21
the expectation and the reality
24:24
are very separate. Yeah.
24:26
I think it kind of encourages locker room talk.
24:30
That type of that, that, um, was
24:33
it? Nailbracket or justness. Yeah.
24:35
And then that obviously has that. Describe her by the pussy.
24:38
They love it. I'm hearing you're rich and famous. They
24:41
allow you to do it. And I mean, I'm 300 years
24:43
old. So what's she going to do? I mean, I could just disappear,
24:46
turn into a back fly away. What's she going to do?
24:48
Well, that's the thing. It's like, it's teaching these young girls.
24:50
Like if an older man approaches you,
24:53
um, that's sexy. That's romantic. Like
24:55
a super, super old man. But if he
24:57
looks young, it's okay. And then if he's
24:59
like controlling, oh, that's just cause he loves you.
25:01
And if he like pushes you into these sexual
25:04
situations, no, that's
25:05
the wrong. Yeah, that's
25:07
romance. Yeah. It's like,
25:09
I mean, we're making it sound an awful lot more serious in the podcast.
25:12
Is it's a J. It's a J it's a joke. It's a laugh.
25:14
Yeah. No, I, I, I roast the shit and
25:16
actually I got in a fight with one of the authors
25:18
I roasted. Oh, she went after me hard.
25:21
It was hilarious. And I, yeah,
25:23
F that B and it was, yeah, you guys, you could check
25:25
my podcast
25:25
and, uh, yeah, it's full of controversy,
25:28
full of sexy, uh, supernatural
25:30
situations. And, uh, I
25:32
mean, I, I hope to be on it at some stage in the future.
25:34
Oh, absolutely. I'm going to have you on next. We do
25:36
one up here. Oh, I'd fucking love that dude. Yeah. Yeah.
25:39
It's all comedy though, dude, guys. It's all comedy.
25:42
So yeah, but that's the thing. So like those
25:44
conspiracy guys is comedy in history, but people are conspiracies
25:47
man. So yours is like an ancient
25:50
vampire rape, but it's comedy.
25:52
It's comedy. Yeah. Yeah. We make fun
25:54
of it. You're supposed to laugh. This
25:56
is bad writing. You should laugh
25:58
at it. Yeah. Yeah,
26:00
so, so, uh, as Betsy
26:03
spare BTS why SP double E
26:05
or not like the Brittany, but like the
26:07
Nazi, the not so relations. Wow.
26:10
That's how it's spelled. I'm not even German.
26:13
It's like, well, she offered it
26:15
up. I'll just go right. Exactly like
26:17
that. That's not in German, but it is
26:19
for the last. It was like, not like the Brittany, but like
26:21
the Nazi Nazi. Yeah, there we go.
26:23
Like the actual
26:26
tool. No, that's SP a. Sorry.
26:29
That's like the Brittany. Sorry. I'd
26:31
be like the, yeah, not like the Brittany, like the tool, but like the Nazi
26:33
spear, not like the Brittany, but like the mint. Nice.
26:36
No, no, no. Cause unless it's an A it's
26:38
double E SP double E R Betsy
26:41
spear comedy.
26:42
Nice. At Betsy spare comedy. I'm sure they find something
26:44
better than SP than a Nazi, but I like
26:47
the Nazi thing, but not like shakes with you. Or where there's
26:49
another E at the end. Yeah. I work
26:51
on a fair extra
26:53
curricular activity. So both
26:55
of you are available on social media.
26:57
Yeah. I mean that's coming
27:00
down. No illicit DMS,
27:02
but at the sleepy comedian
27:04
for English and at Betsy spare
27:06
S double E or to
27:08
get in and Betsy and at bad book bash
27:11
is her podcast. Yep. Yep.
27:14
Instead that you can have a golf. We're going to talk about the Salem witch trials. Hell
27:16
yeah. There
27:18
are those. Can you tell me
27:19
without blowing your loads now? Let's
27:21
not spoil the fucking let's not
27:23
spoil the apple pie. What
27:26
did you or what notions did you have
27:28
or what did you know about the general
27:31
topic of Salem witch trials? Now
27:33
this episode is going to be about the witch trials themselves.
27:36
A little bit of history leading up to it in
27:38
my mind. I feel we're going
27:40
to have probably two more. One is going
27:42
to be on the history of witchcraft
27:45
itself and all of the little bits and bobs,
27:47
the different types of witchcraft, like
27:49
the tarot reading, the TV
27:51
reading, the future telling
27:53
the palmistry. And
27:56
then there's going to be a third episode then
27:58
on the more modern.
27:59
generations of witchcraft like Wiccan,
28:04
Mary Murray, Telima
28:07
and Helena Blavatsky is going to be the
28:09
second episode behind the Blavatsky. So this is just
28:11
Salem Witch Trials, Massachusetts,
28:14
the Puritans. Like
28:17
we're going to do some history of all
28:19
England and the pre-independence
28:24
of America times, colonial American
28:26
times. So like, just so you know what to expect
28:28
as we go through the show,
28:29
it's history. It's a little bit of witchcraftery.
28:33
It's an awful lot of legal chicanery
28:35
and very kind
28:37
of focused specifically on Salem Witch Trials with a little
28:39
bit of titillation, which wise, but
28:41
don't expect this to be a fucking spooky, scary
28:44
Halloween episode where this
28:46
is, we're in for the history. Okay. Just
28:50
so people know what to expect. So before we, before
28:52
we, we dive deep
28:53
into 1692, Massachusetts, what
28:56
kind of notions did you have about the
28:58
topic of Salem Witch Trials? Like
29:00
it seems to be a pretty pervasive cultural
29:02
touchstone into witchcraftery
29:05
into, I guess, subjugation
29:07
of the feminine, like
29:10
false accusations. We have the
29:13
term that's been used in political parlance now,
29:15
a witch hunt. And they're after
29:18
me. It's a witch hunt. Okay. They're
29:20
accusing me. Okay. Fingers are being pointed.
29:23
That nasty woman is accusing me of different
29:25
things that I never did. Okay.
29:27
I would never
29:28
touch her. Her husband is
29:30
a rapist.
29:33
Witch hunt has been used an awful lot in the last while. Yeah.
29:36
We've done some episodes here on the show where we talk about
29:38
the phenomenon of McCarthyism,
29:41
which I'll go into in another episode. So we talked
29:43
about that. And McCarthyism, which
29:45
was the, the witch hunt of
29:47
communists during the post-war
29:51
era in the American 1950s. So there
29:54
were hunting people out the red scare and
29:57
witch hunts come from.
30:00
Um, this particular, uh, events,
30:02
the 1682 sale in which tries, what did you guys know about it before
30:06
we started diving deep? Alice, you want to go first? Maybe.
30:09
Yeah. Um, so the first exposure that I had
30:11
to it, so it was Thanksgiving attire
30:13
was the first thing that I had, you know, all those buckles,
30:16
buckle hats and like, um,
30:19
very monochrome clothing,
30:21
but it was
30:22
knickers, as they call them the tight, the white
30:24
long tights. Yeah. And like
30:26
black, it's great. They're not, they weren't a very colorful.
30:29
Well, all the cameras are black and white back then. So maybe
30:32
that was what, uh, but
30:34
I was exposed to it first and maybe this just shows
30:36
my innocence was like Sabrina the teenage witch. She has
30:39
like a school tour. Yes.
30:41
And then she
30:42
goes to Williamsburg. She
30:45
has a cackle Salem and she goes to like the Salem witch trials
30:47
and then she's obviously which, and then Libby
30:50
accuses her. And obviously we know, uh, we
30:53
grew up with Sabrina teenage, which is like, Oh my God, I'm actually
30:55
a witch. And, you know, looking into and reading
30:57
into it, um, and reading about it. Like
31:00
it is very, um, I guess
31:02
I was surprised to learn and we'll get
31:04
into it. It's that it started in Europe because I thought it was
31:06
very American based.
31:08
It does feel like that, right? It feels very
31:10
American based. And that is like, we
31:13
did that with a lot of things. Yeah.
31:15
Football, black people. Yeah. All
31:18
of all the above. So it felt
31:20
very like, Oh my goodness. This one, like, so
31:22
I was surprised to find it didn't start in America, but, um,
31:25
yeah, then as I got a little bit older,
31:27
it did feel like a little bit of like, and yeah,
31:31
a little bit about like gender, like a majority
31:33
of those accused and killed
31:35
women. Which decided to become not
31:37
yet a girl, not yet a woman. Yeah. You
31:39
were like, Oh, the world is a bit shit for me at the
31:41
moment. Yeah. Oh, I
31:44
didn't realize that all the different. It's
31:46
like, where do we have to sit on the bus? Like this
31:48
kind of stuff. Um, it did
31:50
feel a little bit like a genderish type thing,
31:53
a
31:53
gender issue for sure. For me, or even
31:55
how like a lot of people commented on it was just like
31:57
the women should be, you know, put
31:59
down.
31:59
And are the women are more
32:02
inclined to be persuaded by the devil and
32:04
stuff like that. And so that was very forced. So that's,
32:06
that's what I knew about the, which was
32:07
well, I won't lie to you. That
32:09
is possibly one of the, um, I
32:12
won't say major, but definitely one of the deciding factors
32:15
in asking both of the answer, both on the show before you're
32:17
both like sound bitches,
32:19
like to think
32:21
so. Yeah. Thanks. Gordo. What,
32:23
what you want? And I'm getting a lot of compliments here.
32:26
You're already in the room. It's done. It's
32:28
already happening. Um, what I'm saying is
32:30
that like, I don't think, uh,
32:33
like, okay, I got a lot of comments I'll come to
32:35
you in a second, but I get a lot of comments saying, um,
32:39
we deal with something like, I don't know, Marilyn Monroe,
32:41
or we deal with something like, uh, like two dudes
32:43
talking about some true crime case where there's
32:45
like, uh, some kind of incarceration,
32:48
some kind of sexual assault or some kind of, you know, like
32:50
a Fritzil ish or a type of Natalie, Natalie,
32:53
uh, Natalie Holloway type thing. Yeah. Maybe
32:56
like, um, someone's been incarcerated
32:59
and they feel like, Oh, shit, I have to, I
33:01
have to make him feel like he's
33:03
important so that I can survive like these kinds of men
33:05
syndrome. Yeah. And
33:09
it's two dudes who have never done it. Never been involved
33:11
in this. Never been sexually assaulted. Never been,
33:13
you know, there's no, uh,
33:15
firsthand experience. There's no real like, um,
33:20
testimony that we can stand behind to
33:22
go like, this is how it is only what I read
33:24
online. And I get a lot of comments
33:26
from people, including Claire, who said it to me a
33:28
few times, she's like, I said, isn't that sure. And I really wanted
33:30
to shout the answer at you because you were going, I
33:32
wonder how this feels or I wonder what this is. And they're like, if
33:35
only you just had a woman on the show, they could hear
33:37
you in two seconds. What that is.
33:39
We're your scapegoat, like Seth Rogan's jokes,
33:41
but he can't say particular jokes. So he brings on,
33:44
um, either a person of color or
33:47
he brings on a woman to say the punch line. Um,
33:52
we're the token ladies, token
33:54
women, token, witches. What I'm saying is
33:57
you're not tokens. First of all, thanks.
33:59
saying to like property have a discussion.
34:03
I think if it was tree dudes here, we'll kind
34:05
of be just fluting around. Like there's no
34:07
real, like I want to get insight
34:09
into this thing. Of course. And she
34:11
might do tree labs or the next which one. Cause it's just like
34:13
history books. Now you know how girls don't like reading, but
34:16
it's just,
34:16
we're too busy painting
34:19
our nails. Yeah. But it's
34:21
just this thing of like this particular episode about
34:23
sale and about the persecution. And
34:26
I think
34:26
it's it, this is a, like a girl and girl
34:28
crime to be honest. I'd
34:31
agree. I'd agree. Because they were accusing
34:33
other women. Yeah. Yeah. So mean girls shit, right?
34:36
And I
34:36
don't think I would have accurately been able to obviously
34:39
have an opinion because I'm a, you know, I'm a
34:41
gold medal man's planner. But, uh,
34:44
I wanted to have somebody who's going to be able
34:46
to like engage with
34:48
the material and be able to talk about it. Right. So
34:51
like you're we're growing up on stuff like Sabrina
34:53
the teenage witch. We have all the witchy
34:55
lore. Yeah. Did you identify
34:58
as somebody who could be like, I'm
35:00
a witch wizard. I'm a fairy. Like when you were a
35:02
little kid, did you think like magic was real? Do you
35:04
think that you think that
35:06
I mean, that magic was real? I think,
35:09
um, into the witch vibe.
35:11
Yeah. Like there's always, there's definite
35:14
definite superstitions in Ireland, like the
35:16
banshee and like Halloween comes from Ireland, which was
35:18
something that I never realized. I knew Patrick say it was
35:20
Irish, but I didn't realize Halloween was an Irish
35:22
festival. Yes. So yeah. So we're
35:24
all about the specters, all about the
35:26
ghosts and ghost stories and stuff. And
35:29
that was something Betty and I were talking about in the car on the way here
35:31
was that, um, you know, they didn't have a PlayStation
35:34
back then. Yes. They didn't have the Wii. They
35:36
just had stories.
35:37
You have to be entertained by something by something.
35:39
And it was just a supernatural. And,
35:42
um, but did I identify as any of those things? No,
35:44
I was a bit of an art kid. I was
35:46
just like,
35:47
so you weren't dissuaded
35:50
about, uh, involving yourself in witchcraft
35:52
or the occult
35:53
because of stories like, uh,
35:56
the Salem witch trials, which to me is kind of
35:58
a cautionary tale by and large. that
36:01
you engage with that feminine
36:03
magic side, that that is your
36:05
reward type of thing. I think
36:08
a lot of people maybe were a little bit dissuaded by it, especially
36:10
coming from a Christian background. I'll ask you in a second, Betsy
36:12
was like growing up in America, but cause I
36:14
feel an entirely different opinion about this thing.
36:17
But like for, for Ailish, particularly,
36:19
I don't think a lot of Irish kids were into like
36:22
witchcraft and wizardry as much as like the
36:24
Harry Potter thing took off Sabrina, the teenage
36:26
witch. I don't know if you're old enough to remember, she started off
36:28
as Clarissa who explained it all.
36:30
Who
36:33
also had a young lad that would just at
36:35
his own leisure climb
36:37
up a ladder into her bedroom. Onto
36:39
the first story. Yeah. Onto the first story window.
36:41
One second bro. Do you do that at nighttime
36:44
when she's asleep as well? I'm checking, like we're
36:46
checking everywhere for fucking. I was
36:48
a huge fantasy reading teenage witch, but I didn't
36:51
want to, I like obviously dresses with
36:53
Halloween cause that's the most obvious thing.
36:55
Which didn't Harry Potter it up is what I'm saying. And
36:59
that's kind of something that like, I guess, you
37:01
know, this topic keeps getting reintroduced
37:04
into cultures and people are excited about it again.
37:06
Cause it's obviously like a long standing topic.
37:08
It's allowed now. Yeah. But
37:11
like it's, it's also spun in a positive
37:13
light. Like a bewitch was before Sabrina. And
37:15
that was the first time from like
37:17
the research that I've done that, you know,
37:19
Salem was able to say, Oh my God, this is like our
37:21
history in a positive light. It's a good witch who wants
37:23
to do good. Not only did they have the purpose
37:25
for bad, they also have the choice to do something good.
37:27
Yeah. But also she was a totally
37:29
fucking brow beaten, tied
37:32
to the sink, good American. Her
37:35
magic powers to fucking wiggle
37:37
her nose and make a lovely dinner and get the washing up
37:40
done on the house clean.
37:40
I mean, he doesn't want that
37:43
change in the world or fighting crime. She was like, here's
37:46
your suit pressed, honey. Like what talk
37:48
about fucking using magic for the wrong reasons. Okay.
37:51
I just wanted to crack through the Catholic
37:54
veneer that we were all raised on to see who you felt.
37:57
So we're good. You weren't, you weren't a witchy kid.
37:59
You grew up in
38:02
a gritty suburbs
38:04
of Chicago. Yeah, yeah. Suburban
38:06
trash, like I said, were you guys throwing spells
38:09
out in the stoop? We, uh, we, uh, in
38:11
counting a Davera cadavera all
38:14
around the fucking town. Was this
38:16
a
38:16
in between like smoke and crack and
38:19
scape, skate park and well,
38:21
tagging, tagging walls with spray
38:24
paint. I don't know what they didn't, you know, the other kids
38:26
might've done that, but they certainly didn't invite me.
38:28
I was, uh, I was a big
38:30
old nerd. Like I was on math team and everything.
38:32
Like I legit got, I kind of cast kill
38:37
yourself. Um, sponsored
38:39
by Samaritans. Um,
38:42
but no, I, uh, yeah, no, I got legit
38:44
got an award at graduation for being on math
38:47
team longer than anyone else.
38:48
Um, but no,
38:50
Matt's is a talent. It's, it's one of those things you
38:52
can't, it's like, what do you agree with numbers? Exactly.
38:55
You're very talented. The mats. I am
38:57
not, I'm more of a tactile. Um,
38:59
I don't know why I did tit squeeze in motion there.
39:02
Oh, I thought you're doing bunny rabbits. No, it was all five
39:04
fingers. So
39:06
like growing up in Chicago, did you
39:08
like, you were not up the road, but reasonably
39:11
a lot closer than us to Massachusetts to
39:13
that culture, to the
39:15
Protestantism, yeah. Protestantism, at
39:18
least Christian Christian adjacent
39:21
religiousness. Um, yes. Um,
39:24
I would say especially the Midwest, the Midwest
39:26
is white Christian and
39:28
Trump country. Yeah, kinda.
39:30
Yeah. Yeah. And Illinois is a big place,
39:33
you know, Illinois. Yeah, depending on where you are in Illinois.
39:35
Um, but yeah,
39:38
I would say that like for me, like I
39:40
grew up Protestant, um, which is funny,
39:42
but like I
39:43
went to church on my own accord.
39:45
Like my mom didn't make me go. I chose
39:47
to go like, well, she said, well, she sent
39:49
me to church camp when I was 12, not
39:53
because it was not because of the church
39:55
thing, but because it was like literally the cheapest
39:57
summer camp available. It was the cheapest way.
39:59
to get rid of your kid for six weeks. Subsidized
40:02
by our Lord. Yeah, exactly. It
40:04
could have been a Muslim camp. It could have been a Scientologist
40:06
camp. She didn't care. She would have sent
40:08
me to it. So I went there and then they converted me there. And
40:11
then I came back. Oh, they hardcore
40:13
converted me. I came back and I was like, I
40:15
love Jesus.
40:16
Can I dive a small bit deeper into that? Yes.
40:19
Because that's what it just means. Was it like, were they exchanging
40:21
like prayers for s'mores? Like how did they do that?
40:24
They, basically they just kind of
40:26
love bombed you, honestly. And
40:28
as a kid who was, I mentioned this before, who
40:30
was abused. I'm like, oh, I need that love. They're
40:32
like, my daddy abandoned me, but guess what? Jesus
40:34
is your daddy now. I'm like, great. I love
40:36
it. Ash Wednesday is like stock taking for Catholicism.
40:39
Like that's how you know, like I want a good Catholic
40:41
boy. Have a look out on Ash
40:43
Wednesday and you just see they're marked.
40:45
They're marked. The
40:47
barcode on the far right there. Who
40:50
went to math today? Yeah. You
40:52
know what? And funny enough, because just talking about my podcast
40:54
earlier, the first time I read
40:56
Twilight was at church camp. One of the girls
40:58
in the girls in the cabin lent
41:00
it to
41:00
me. Was it not like, was it not
41:02
like, exactly. At
41:05
this point in time, Twilight had not
41:07
actually become as popular as it was. I actually,
41:09
I read Twilight before it was. Oh, ahead
41:11
of the curve.
41:12
So they didn't really know. She's
41:15
a Twilight hipster. I
41:17
fucking hate Twilight. I never watched it.
41:19
I even in my darkest, lowest moments,
41:22
drinking, drugs, depression,
41:24
my darkest, lowest moments. I've never watched
41:26
a Twilight movie. I mean, I watch it. I'm
41:29
proud of it. I'm almost like I'm past the
41:32
point of needing to now.
41:33
I'm kind of on the Twilight agnostic
41:35
fence. So I read the first book and I watched the first
41:37
film and I just left it there. And some people like, Oh my God,
41:39
how did you just leave it at one? I was
41:41
like, yeah, I'm good. I'm good. No,
41:43
I hate watch it. Like the first Hunger Games. You're
41:45
just like, yeah, I'm out. The rest can. I am that
41:47
kind of person who's got like very high
41:49
tolerance for what is it?
41:52
Spence. Well, also like not knowing
41:54
what the plot is like, I'll walk in halfway
41:56
through a Netflix series and I'll say to my husband is
41:58
like, just bring them to the show.
41:59
speed. Okay. I'll watch it. And I'm just very
42:02
chill that way. So then
42:04
I just, yeah, I just left it at one red,
42:06
red one. I was okay until you said
42:08
that. Now I think there's something wrong with your brain. That's
42:11
why I'm here. That's why I'm here. That's why you're a comedian.
42:14
I'm really suspicious of you though for some reason. It's
42:16
just like red flags are popping up.
42:19
That's my personal red flag. Yeah. The
42:21
folks say it's a movie halfway through and
42:23
it's totally satisfied by it.
42:25
Or even goes into a Marvel film and going like, Oh,
42:27
it's that Iron Man. Cool. What's Iron Man do? Oh,
42:29
it's just a suit. Okay. As long as Paul Rudd
42:31
is in anything, I'll just watch. Gordo's
42:36
face, you miss it. It was just like, are
42:38
you kidding? I have a Paul Rudd cut out
42:40
at my house. I am not joking about that.
42:42
I have a Paul Rudd cut out at my home. A damp
42:44
Paul Rudd cut out in your room.
42:46
To size or? No, not
42:49
to size. My boyfriend's name is Paul. Coincidence? No.
42:52
So I won't get the name wrong during sex. I like
42:54
that loophole. I
42:57
like that loophole.
42:57
That's a life hack. That's what I know. I
42:59
know what to get you now for your birthday is going to
43:01
be a cameo from Paul Rudd. We
43:04
do that. Is that a thing? We get a video. Yeah.
43:06
We get Paul Rudd to give you a birthday. Dude, I would legitimately
43:09
cry if you did that. Like I'd be so happy. Let's
43:11
do that. We get Paul Rudd on the case. No,
43:14
for sure. We do that. I feel like I
43:16
spoke too soon about tuning into film
43:19
five of Harry Potter. I feel like because Bessie's a little
43:21
bit more loyal to franchises that I'm not going to get any
43:23
segues or any like.
43:24
We see. We see. I'm immediately
43:27
suspicious of you. My natural
43:29
reaction is to reward somebody else instead. I
43:31
think
43:32
so. I think I'm being punished.
43:34
I did do some witchy stuff as a
43:37
teenager though. Tell
43:40
us about it. Like legit. So I was hardcore
43:42
Christian though. Like I went to church like two or three times
43:44
a week willingly and I had to get carpools because
43:46
my mom wasn't bothered. She was even like
43:49
you're a bit weird.
43:50
Sorry to interrupt you. You
43:52
were you were a little bummed at a church camp
43:54
and indoctrinated into the protestant's
43:57
church. Yes. Where they're like we love you God loves
43:59
you. It's all good.
43:59
You just have to keep worshiping, keep coming back, keep
44:02
coming back because you're worth it because you're worth it
44:04
kind of thing. And then
44:06
you started going on the reg to church
44:09
while also as a sideline, engaging
44:12
in your free time with like the occult.
44:14
Yeah, kind of. So basically,
44:17
Jesus, this is the best choice of guests
44:19
for this episode. I know you
44:22
said, yeah, yeah. It's
44:24
got the Japanese, Japanese
44:27
cult. The occult. Well,
44:30
I guess I was like really, I guess I was like really
44:32
into the spiritual stuff as a kid. So
44:35
there was like the God aspect. And then I was reading
44:37
like Twilight, Vampire Diaries, House
44:39
of Night, all those vampire-y
44:41
kind of shit. And I got so into that that I
44:43
was like, I want to be a vampire. Is there a way
44:46
the vampires are real? And then I was like, legit,
44:49
oh, this is so embarrassing. I've never said this out loud,
44:51
but like I was like 15. Now's a good time as Annie, Betsy.
44:53
I was 15. Give me a break. I'm
44:56
a scientist now, so it's fine. But
44:59
yeah, I actually was like
44:59
looking up ways online to like
45:01
become a vampire. Yeah, come on. Yeah.
45:04
I was like, there was like spells and shit. And then I was
45:07
like, there was a website where you could get like free spells.
45:09
And I actually made a little spell
45:12
book. Like I took construction paper and
45:14
I took white paper and I like stained
45:16
it with tea to make it look witchy.
45:19
And I wrote spells on it and I would go to the Walgreens
45:22
and be like, you need, you know, this herb and you
45:24
need a candle and I'd go to Walgreens. I'd buy like
45:26
a scented cinnamon candle.
45:28
Okay. So legit you were like a
45:30
witch then. I was trying to be and then I felt
45:32
a deep. No, no, no, that's legit witchcraft. Like that's
45:35
like, yeah. That's what I was thinking. I was like, are vampires into witchcraft?
45:37
And then I realized like they do run on each other with
45:39
a bit of garlic. No, somebody runs out with them on a bit of garlic and
45:41
they also shapeshift into bats.
45:42
Yeah. Fair enough. Invocation,
45:45
diabolism. We talk about the elements
45:47
that denote, legally denote witchcraft.
45:49
The hierarchy of witchcraft. It
45:51
was also a deep shame for me because again, I
45:53
was like hella Christian and I was like, if people
45:55
at church knew, I look back at this now and I'm like,
45:58
both of them are fucking stupid witches.
45:59
people who believe in witchcraft and sorry,
46:02
people who are hardcore Christian. I think it's both stupid.
46:04
But maybe it was the, the illicit,
46:07
uh, you know, the Betsy of no home. Like
46:09
you were like in one community,
46:12
you were an outcast and then the other community
46:14
weren't equally an outcast possibly,
46:16
you know,
46:19
realizing
46:21
the titillating concept
46:23
from the twilight books where you're just like, I'm
46:25
either one or the other. I am Kristen
46:28
Stewart. You know, I'm not
46:30
like other girls. Yeah. I'm not like other girls.
46:32
Yeah. If I can like be a witch and then
46:35
find a sexy priest, hang on a second. Yeah.
46:38
Yeah. That's fine. That
46:40
is the new rendition of Lee bag. A
46:43
real, a real life religious experience.
46:45
I love it, man. I've actually never talked about this
46:47
out loud. Now this is something I've never even mentioned to
46:49
my boyfriend because it just never came up and it was like a deep,
46:52
I was embarrassed rightfully so. Cause it is fucking embarrassing.
46:55
It's absolutely not embarrassing.
47:00
I've done similar shit. Like, I mean,
47:03
yeah, you do the fucking whole, I read it. I read
47:05
a rolled out book called the magnificent
47:07
story of Henry sugar. And I thought I'd
47:09
totally be able to see through things. I thought
47:11
I'm making a movie of a coming up. It's
47:13
an amazing book about a man who's able
47:15
to see a
47:17
site beyond site. He covers his eyes and he's
47:19
able to see through cards and he uses it
47:21
to win a casinos and he takes all
47:24
the money and he gives it to charity. But he goes
47:26
through this whole like esoteric exploration of
47:30
how to achieve these talents. And
47:32
he goes to a Yogi's in India and he uses
47:34
a candle and he does all this to ruin the eyesight
47:36
looking into candles. But it was, it was
47:39
magic work. Yeah. Like, you know, and I
47:41
found that later on when we were talking
47:44
about this on the simulation theory
47:46
episode, that there's a
47:47
whole cohort of people online
47:49
called dimension jumpers. So you've heard of the
47:51
Mandela effect. Oh yes. Yes. It's
47:53
become common pop culture parlance.
47:56
When we did Mandela effect episode in like 2015, not a lot
47:58
of people. that heard about it. And there was all
48:01
these like little changes that were happening. Um,
48:03
so there's these dimension jumpers that can, they
48:06
use like little spells, like looking into the mirror
48:08
and coax in the mirror person out and you can jump
48:10
between different dimensions. You use it with candles,
48:12
there's things with salt and water and
48:15
where you
48:17
transport your consciousness from one reality
48:19
into another. So you imagine reality that you want
48:21
to be in an infinite kind of a
48:24
string theory type, uh, you
48:26
know, infinite amount of universe is multiverse
48:28
type theory. And you're like, I want to be in the
48:31
universe where I get this
48:33
or I win a millet or I have a job
48:35
here. And then you do the, the
48:38
procession, you do the fucking ceremony
48:40
with the candle and then you wake up the next morning
48:42
and like Tom Hanks and big, you are in that universe
48:44
then. And there's a whole community of people and they have
48:46
all these different techniques and they do all this stuff and they, they,
48:49
um, gauge it from each other and the exchange,
48:51
there's like numbers where you can check which universe you're
48:54
in. And then it's been kind of, uh,
48:56
that type of theory has
48:59
been popularized or commodified by stuff like Rick and Marty,
49:01
where there's like, you know, like the multiverse theory
49:04
and see, Rick and Marty and see one 37, I got
49:06
my Rick and Marty's here. Um,
49:09
like, so that, so that type of
49:11
thing is totally, like totally palatable
49:14
for grown ass man to be interested in. I
49:16
was about to ask, like, do you guys believe in a multiverse?
49:18
I was going to ask. Yeah,
49:20
I'd say so. Yeah. I'd say we live in a simulation. I still think
49:23
we live in a simulation, but it's not
49:25
a computer program or whatever, but it's
49:27
like, you know,
49:28
well there's that one theory where they say that
49:30
if you, if we manage to
49:33
create a simulation
49:35
that is like a perfect replica of
49:38
our current universe, then that almost basically
49:40
proves that we are in a simulation.
49:42
Yeah. It's called the, the, the Brostrom
49:45
trilema. You're right. Cause it's like, it's like
49:47
the chances that you would be the first
49:49
table quizzes. Cause you just know all the,
49:51
yeah. Exactly.
49:54
It's the mathematical mathematical
49:56
statistic probability that like,
49:58
if we do have the computer power. to be able to do
50:00
it, then the chances are that we are
50:03
already in it. Because what are the chances
50:05
of us being number one out of like a million? Yeah.
50:09
A million? Probably not. That's
50:11
what it's called. I mentioned this in my comp psych course actually. Nice. You
50:14
see, just the thing. So all this shit fucking like computer science and like,
50:16
would you go down to the fucking the building blocks of DNA? It's
50:19
all computer code. Like, so, you know, all this kind of stuff.
50:21
So but in learning more and more and more for
50:24
me personally, like within witchcraft,
50:28
the first introduction
50:31
to witchcraft or witches that I had
50:33
as a very young child was a grot
50:36
bag.
50:37
You're going to have to explain that one. Grot
50:40
bag is. Grot bag was on CITV,
50:43
which is the children's channel of
50:46
ITV. Yeah. In the afternoons
50:50
where they show all the kiddies TV and all of a weekday afternoon.
50:53
And she was a
50:54
like a pleasantly obese
50:56
woman who had a green face and
50:59
she had a house where all the kids were going and she would entice
51:01
all the children in and they'd all sit in a kind
51:04
of an amphitheater type thing. And she'd have guests on.
51:07
But she was like, like a real nasty
51:10
cunt, like judgmental
51:13
past remarkable. But she was the host of the show
51:16
and it was the grot bag was the name of the show. And
51:18
then she'd be like, children. And she pulled
51:20
the children out of the audience and like, you
51:22
know, give them a like Don Rickles
51:24
amount of abuse and then like sit them down again.
51:27
And then some of the knock on the doors like there's somebody
51:29
at the door. There's somebody at the
51:32
door. And they go to the door and it opened up. It's like the postman.
51:34
She take the postman and he was like, look at you postman
51:36
with your fucking stupid shorts. Look at your fucking
51:39
mustache. You know,
51:41
it's just houses for children. Yeah.
51:44
It was just like a like a 90s was very different. And a grot
51:46
bag. And
51:48
I used to be fascinated because she was hilarious
51:52
and terribly rude. And I was like, yeah, that
51:54
kind of fits the image of what
51:56
I would imagine a witch to be a single.
51:59
aging woman who's become embittered
52:02
with life, her skin regimen has
52:04
really fallen away, white screen
52:06
skin, all this kind of thing. And I'm like, yeah.
52:09
And then she just like verbally abuses everybody
52:11
that comes across her path.
52:12
She alienates herself. Yeah. And then she has
52:16
to entice children in with promises of entertainment.
52:18
That's the only company that she keeps, but she still can't fight
52:21
the nature of her crankiness. Uh,
52:24
but the children find it entertaining up to a certain point
52:26
and then they age out because they
52:28
start to feel that it's toxic. But
52:30
young kids still congregate around
52:32
her because, um, I
52:35
think it's her main demographic. Isn't it? It's like, you
52:37
know what? You're like, I'm going to give you sweets and you're going to meet
52:39
you. Think this is my best friend. I need to get you in
52:41
before you realize you're in danger.
52:43
The red flag is scar from
52:46
these red flags. And then as soon as you age out
52:48
of that and you start to realize that I'm a toxic
52:50
person, you leave, but I just replace you with other
52:52
younger kids until I get canceled or whatever. Uh, but
52:55
in my mind, grandpa is still out there, uh,
52:57
verbally abusing, uh, the public.
53:00
I just want to say
53:00
that is the most Irish thing I've ever
53:02
heard because it's like one, she's
53:05
verbally abusing people. Like y'all
53:07
love to verbally abuse people like the banter.
53:09
It's not verbal abuse, but you know, it's like the banter y'all
53:12
love the banter. And then she's literally
53:13
green from the woman that shows
53:15
it from a moving car pulling up
53:17
to my house. What's up bitch.
53:19
But also plot twist.
53:21
ITV is British. Yeah. It's British
53:24
plot twist. When I say bitch Gordo,
53:26
I mean that in a complimentary way. I mean, babe
53:29
in total control of himself. I feel,
53:31
I feel, you're welcome. I
53:33
feel, uh, I feel fully loved.
53:37
It's a word of endearment. Yeah. Yeah.
53:40
Yeah. It's an English TV show, but I think England and Ireland
53:42
have that same banter of a rape.
53:45
Yeah. Same, same,
53:48
similar cultures. Yeah. Self deprecation.
53:50
So yeah. And then obviously like winning
53:52
the entertainment sphere, which is because I was an inside
53:55
child and you know, I didn't really get out, watch, you
53:57
know, Sabrina the teenage witch
53:59
again.
53:59
We had
54:04
many different TV shows, cartoons,
54:08
Wizard of Oz, different dramas and stuff like
54:10
that all based around witchcraft.
54:13
And as I got older, I kind of fell out
54:15
of the like
54:16
ultra my teens and early twenties,
54:18
like witchcraft was definitely in the
54:21
background of my experience
54:23
of the world. But as I started to
54:26
like, I was into conspiracy theories and I kind of got political
54:28
and I kind of got a little bit esoteric with like,
54:30
your drugs and that type of the
54:34
sphere of consciousness opening
54:37
experiences, you know, reading the information, taking
54:39
the drugs, doing the stuff. And I find out now
54:41
when I go to study like in an academic
54:44
sense for a show like this, or indeed in
54:46
the past
54:46
when I've read books and stuff with
54:49
a little bit of years on me and a little bit sober
54:51
mind, I find it like, Oh man,
54:54
witchcraft
54:55
is just the thing
54:58
that people who wanted
55:00
to be in control called the forces
55:02
that they couldn't control. Yeah, that's
55:04
exactly it. And I think years ago,
55:07
science that was unknown as
55:09
science was called magic. And there
55:11
were people who
55:13
were able to cure illnesses, people
55:16
that were able to treat
55:18
maladies, people that were able to
55:21
manifest their own realities
55:24
through stuff that we call now, like the
55:26
secret. Okay. You just start to
55:28
picture a manifest
55:31
and existence where
55:33
do you have happiness? Where
55:36
do you have wealth,
55:37
prosperity and peace? I didn't
55:39
know where we're doing accents. I'm going to
55:42
bow out of this. This
55:44
is from my good friend Deepak, who
55:48
is a practitioner
55:50
of
55:51
manifestation. Love attraction.
55:56
He has actually a very relaxing sleeping
55:58
book. You can listen do we fall asleep?
56:00
I feel very relaxed right now. I feel very
56:03
relaxed apart from the whole racial
56:05
connotations. But yeah, definitely
56:07
Deepak is like, he's one of
56:09
the most famous dudes at this like low of attraction
56:11
thing. But like Oprah's out at the secret, all
56:14
the shit mood boards or like vision boards
56:16
and all this shit. And mood boards,
56:18
the fashion thing, vision boards, you
56:20
put like, I want a Lambo. I want big titties.
56:22
I want fucking money, money, money, money, money. And
56:25
you just put a stick all the shit on and it's like, what's
56:27
that? But a magic spell, you know, so
56:29
as it came full circle,
56:32
my childhood dreams of witchcraft
56:35
and wizardry
56:37
through my experiences with, you
56:39
know, the esoteric in every other sense,
56:41
apart from through like magic magia,
56:44
wicca, telima, I
56:46
got back into like reading Crowley reading,
56:49
you know, to telemics texts and below that scheme,
56:51
stuff like that.
56:52
And I realized it's always been there. It's
56:54
just called a different thing. Yeah. That witchcraft
56:57
itself is like the use of natural
56:59
herbs,
57:00
natural remedies, the forces of nature that
57:03
is now considered paganism.
57:06
And the reason it was subjugated and vilified
57:08
and illegalized
57:11
was because a power
57:14
using God as its nomenclature
57:18
decided to remove the
57:20
autonomy from the people of the planet by,
57:23
uh, you know, illegalizing
57:27
the things that they were doing on an everyday basis, taking
57:29
care of themselves medically. Like,
57:32
what's the best way to subjugate people is to take away their power.
57:34
So if you
57:36
want to treat yourself medically by treating yourself with your
57:38
own knowledge, no, cause we can't make money off that.
57:40
If you want to treat yourself and, um,
57:43
you know, feel better when you have like a bad time or something
57:45
happens, you know, you're grieving something or something, you know,
57:47
terrible things happen. What's the best way
57:50
to commodify that psychiatry
57:53
and pharmaceuticals? No, we can't make money
57:55
off you fucking doing magic spells
57:57
and taking care of it that way. So they illegalize
57:59
all of these.
57:59
these like home remedies
58:02
and this kind of natural remedial processes
58:05
by calling them witchcraft vilify in them
58:07
and the sale and which trials was like the great
58:10
kind of monolithic looming
58:13
threat to everybody
58:15
that ever wanted to enact with that for the last 300 years. It's
58:18
like, yeah, these fucking bitches when
58:20
they try some witchcraft, don't try. Don't even not
58:22
even once just say no, you know,
58:24
the tree to witchcraft the same as they do with crack cocaine.
58:26
Yeah, just say no, not even once, you know,
58:29
I liked religion was a
58:31
much bigger thing back then. Like
58:33
people even 30 years ago, I think
58:36
people are questioning religion. Yeah, come on. People
58:38
are questioning religion. Your bodily autonomy is still
58:40
affected by religion. Talk about witchcraft. These
58:43
modern women who are protesting, uh,
58:45
like not, not five years ago to get
58:48
the abortion referendum passed in Ireland. They
58:50
were calling themselves like modern day witches. Like we
58:52
are the witches. We are the daughters of the witches.
58:54
You didn't burn. Like that was the thing that
58:56
was the political slogans that were running. Yeah.
58:59
Do you know? So like taking away in America still.
59:01
Yeah. Religion, religion still
59:03
has that stranglehold. It
59:04
does. But I think people are kind of questioning
59:07
it more. That's also with globalization as well and different
59:09
access to different cultures. Like Ireland didn't have an airport
59:11
until the fifties. You know what I mean? Uh,
59:15
but back then, yeah, definitely
59:17
religion had a huge stronghold. And
59:20
so it was much easier to,
59:22
um, you know, like
59:25
with like an authority,
59:27
you wouldn't question them with, they said,
59:29
look, the devil exists and his followers are witches.
59:31
And if you are a witch
59:33
there, you're going to be outcasted
59:34
by your community and following up with that because there's
59:37
such a community in religion. I'm not
59:39
a big fan of religion, but there is that
59:41
community. And unfortunately that blind
59:44
following to, you
59:46
know, scapegoat off the leader and like, and
59:48
then if something happens, like even it's
59:50
even happening in like non-religious situations.
59:52
So you had Trump who was the leader
59:54
of the Republican party and obviously voted in, but
59:56
then when bad stuff started to happen,
59:59
it was like, oh, Trump.
59:59
was like, no, no, what about all of
1:00:02
his people that like, all the followers have resonated
1:00:04
for 50 years before him that agrees
1:00:06
with his policies. So it's not just a
1:00:08
leader issue. So yeah, you do have, unfortunately,
1:00:10
that little scapegoat like, Oh, it's Salem, which was, it was
1:00:13
that one person who like, we're going
1:00:15
to go into Paris, but like, it was that one person like, no, no,
1:00:17
he had a following. Yeah. It was a much bigger
1:00:19
issue. And it's almost enough to execute
1:00:22
one or two people in the, in the effigy
1:00:24
of that ideology. Yeah. So like one
1:00:26
debt
1:00:27
and do you know what, do you know what that really sounds
1:00:29
like to me? Jesus.
1:00:33
All the sin in the world was put into one
1:00:36
motherfucker
1:00:38
that they crucified and it's like, Oh, we can all feel
1:00:40
better now. Yeah. But he died. Yeah, but he's the
1:00:42
only one that died and he died with our sins. It's
1:00:45
like, you know, what
1:00:47
about we take all the debt in the whole
1:00:49
world? Everybody's debt. Yeah. And
1:00:51
we put it on one guy and then kill him and then
1:00:53
nobody owes any banks, any money anymore. And
1:00:56
the same concept,
1:00:57
the narrative was that the repercussions were on
1:00:59
the antagonist side and not the
1:01:01
people who did the action of killing
1:01:03
or crucifying Jesus or killing and killing
1:01:06
these
1:01:07
victims in Salem. And it
1:01:09
was just like, you did your duty to the
1:01:11
Lord, go
1:01:13
forward and reward you for
1:01:15
your, for, yeah, absolutely.
1:01:18
So that's obviously, you know, a side
1:01:20
note or like a symptom of
1:01:23
religion and all of those things I thought
1:01:25
of when you think about Salem, you think about
1:01:27
that subjugation when we think about that, like the feminist
1:01:29
push, you think about, you know, a
1:01:32
religious hegemony, you think about
1:01:34
like, you know, ideological oppression,
1:01:37
you think about the Puritans and their
1:01:40
attitudes towards like staunch religious beliefs.
1:01:43
And then researching in this, I found a whole
1:01:46
host of other
1:01:48
political machinations
1:01:50
that led to this case, a
1:01:52
whole lot of league, like crazy
1:01:56
legal precedents that were created, especially
1:01:59
to prosecute these women.
1:01:59
women and a little
1:02:02
bit of folklore that kind of will titillate,
1:02:05
you know, halfway through the episode. That's like, I think
1:02:07
pretty funny,
1:02:09
but
1:02:10
by and large, like this was a travesty of
1:02:12
law, not of ideology of religion
1:02:14
of, you know, it was a tragedy of law
1:02:16
on politics rather than an attack
1:02:19
on paganism, an attack on
1:02:21
magic or an attack on an esoteric
1:02:24
lifestyle or an attack. No, this
1:02:26
wasn't like an attack on witchcraft. This
1:02:29
was
1:02:30
a bid for power in a time
1:02:32
where people were
1:02:35
powerless and people were easily manipulated by these
1:02:37
forces. God bless you. Do you know? Like
1:02:40
it's not COVID, don't
1:02:41
worry. We all took tests. We're all friends
1:02:43
here. I got COVID
1:02:45
earlier. And I'm full. I had
1:02:48
COVID for breakfast. So that's the
1:02:52
thing. So in this episode, that's, that's like,
1:02:55
I want to get a baseline of what we know about Salem.
1:02:57
And that's kind of the pervasive. I think for a lot
1:02:59
of people, that was the pervasive
1:03:02
view is that it's like, Oh,
1:03:04
those motherfuckers, like those religious white
1:03:06
wigged colonial men, keeping
1:03:09
women down. And surprise, surprise,
1:03:12
majority of the users, young women,
1:03:14
now probably possibly coerced and cajoled
1:03:17
by their, their parents, but definitely
1:03:19
like this was like
1:03:21
the shakes up the idea of
1:03:23
what these witch trials were. And
1:03:26
by and large across Europe, similarly
1:03:28
accusing someone of being a witch in league
1:03:30
with the devil. And we will be doing an episode on Lucifer,
1:03:33
the light bringer, the, the, the, the bringer of
1:03:35
the dawn. Um, I
1:03:38
don't think it's that bad of a guy, you know, you
1:03:40
gotta be something cool to be God's right
1:03:42
hand man for so long. And,
1:03:45
uh, also a killer K-pop song.
1:03:47
Just throwing that out there. Oh yeah. You're a K-pop
1:03:49
stand. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Lucifer by shiny.
1:03:51
And that's nice.
1:03:55
It's a real, it's a, it's one of these just saying at the end of a wedding.
1:03:57
Yeah. Yeah. First. When
1:04:00
all the tables and chairs are pulled to the side of the ring. Had to throw that out
1:04:02
there. K-pop second gen all the way. Okay, that's
1:04:04
all done. She was fucking going wild at
1:04:06
the breakfast table over, what are they called?
1:04:09
Big Bang. Big Bang, yeah, the original
1:04:11
K-pop.
1:04:13
They were the BTS before BTS. Fuck
1:04:15
BTS, apparently. Yeah, fuck BTS. The
1:04:18
Beatles of K-pop, if you could agree. Yeah.
1:04:22
Salem all about it, those conspiracy
1:04:24
guys.
1:04:27
So yeah, let's get into Salem. Let's get into the
1:04:29
real deal. We
1:04:32
wind our minds back to 1692 Massachusetts.
1:04:37
And this culmination of puritanical
1:04:40
religious belief, possible toxic
1:04:42
poisoning, family politics, class
1:04:44
warfare, religious fervor, fear,
1:04:47
guilt,
1:04:48
doubt, and shame. All
1:04:50
bound together to form an event of mass hysteria
1:04:52
that we still memorialize in common parlance
1:04:54
today. Called the Salem Witch
1:04:56
Trials.
1:04:58
Not the first of their kind, nor the
1:05:00
last as it happens. But these witch trials
1:05:02
in Salem and the legal ramifications of them have been
1:05:04
felt for centuries. The responsibility
1:05:06
has been laid at the foot of the state for the deaths
1:05:08
of the 20 that died, the conviction of
1:05:10
the 30 more
1:05:12
that were convicted and imprisoned for over
1:05:14
a year. And in the lives of
1:05:16
a total of 162 people, and that number varies
1:05:19
as we go along, you know, just varying accounts
1:05:21
of how up to 200 people report, but a
1:05:23
total of 162 people who were, their
1:05:26
reputations were historically tarnished under the accusations
1:05:28
of witchcraft, which is like the fucking worst
1:05:30
thing you could be, apparently. So court documents,
1:05:33
letters, diaries, a more than amount accounts. There's
1:05:36
etchings and drawings and other primary sources of information, which
1:05:38
have all been diligently combed over
1:05:41
for the past three centuries, to try and fully
1:05:43
understand the lives and the times of these
1:05:45
so-called Puritans, which we'll talk about in a little
1:05:47
while. These Puritans of
1:05:50
Salem who persecuted these women
1:05:52
and these girls.
1:05:53
It is a story of like, you know, religious
1:05:55
persecution at its core. But T.B.F.
1:06:01
really, it's more about politics and a
1:06:03
little background to these folks that they call the Puritans,
1:06:05
right? These are these bucklehead accounts
1:06:08
that some say were considered
1:06:10
so uptight in the 17th century in England
1:06:12
that they had to go somewhere else to be allowed to be
1:06:14
themselves. They were like, it's too austere
1:06:16
here in, you know,
1:06:19
pre Victorian England. There's not
1:06:21
enough sexual repression.
1:06:23
Let's make our own town. We've been
1:06:26
showing off their ankles everywhere we go. God
1:06:28
damn. Look at these, look at these not floor
1:06:30
length dresses. These women are sporting. I
1:06:32
can see your skin. He then, um,
1:06:36
so yeah, there were rebels in a way.
1:06:38
So they taught the church of England needed a reformation
1:06:40
and that the King was too closely associated
1:06:42
with Catholicism, like
1:06:45
hyper Protestants,
1:06:46
you know, like full, uh,
1:06:49
both levels of Protestantism. Like I
1:06:51
don't, like I'm hammering a fucking, uh,
1:06:54
my, my 99 problems with
1:06:56
a bitch ant one on the door of the church.
1:06:58
Yeah. That was all kicking off around then. Yeah.
1:07:00
And, uh, and then we're also
1:07:02
saying, look, we don't like
1:07:04
the fact that the church and the state are so
1:07:06
intermingled.
1:07:07
Yeah. Which is still a problem today. Yeah.
1:07:10
In Ireland, definitely in England, though, not so much cause
1:07:12
the parliament has that primacy
1:07:14
over, over the queen, which is just like,
1:07:17
she's just like an old lady who does her face, does beyond
1:07:19
money. Yeah. No real power really,
1:07:21
even though she's the head of the army or whatever. Yeah.
1:07:24
Same as the president in Ireland is not really like he's
1:07:26
a figure. He's a figure head. He's a cutie
1:07:29
and a little cute. You little sound sound
1:07:31
loud. Yeah. So
1:07:33
these, these Puritans came in two flavors
1:07:35
then,
1:07:36
uh, the
1:07:40
gluten free Puritans,
1:07:42
like trying to fucking stop or free range.
1:07:45
My brain is just
1:07:47
going, going mental.
1:07:51
Powerful to have a ease. The place where you can get out for brain.
1:07:53
If you're an art and are anywhere in Europe, by the way, get
1:07:55
on the powerful deli, get your alpha brands
1:07:57
in and get your brains working.
1:07:59
They came in two flavors. Um, so separatists
1:08:02
and non-separatists is what is the flavors,
1:08:04
the puretins came in. One side
1:08:06
wanted to reform the church
1:08:08
and the others taught it too far
1:08:10
gone and wanted to make it their own buzz altogether.
1:08:13
Let's cancel it's fucking reset button.
1:08:15
Let's start it all over again. And at the time
1:08:18
in England and a little bit of history now strapping
1:08:21
at the time in England, the church
1:08:23
was the King. This is all from Henry
1:08:25
who was like, I want a divorce. You can't have one. I'll
1:08:27
make my own church. Fuck you. Yeah.
1:08:30
Oh, that's so when you say the church was the King,
1:08:32
so was the King seen as some sort of like
1:08:35
the head of the church?
1:08:36
The King was a deity. He was like, he was like
1:08:38
God in Karen. Really? Yeah,
1:08:40
that's how they did it. Yeah. And
1:08:43
that was more noble.
1:08:44
And that's why he had that
1:08:46
role of being king over the Christian
1:08:49
belief. Cause I thought Christianity was like, there's
1:08:51
just Jesus and maybe the Pope. I
1:08:53
don't know. Yeah. But the
1:08:55
seat Henry kind of spun it himself. Yeah. And that was
1:08:57
Catholic up until that point. And then in order
1:08:59
to get a divorce, you have to go on like petition the Pope
1:09:01
and say, yo,
1:09:03
I want to do it. Just fucking wack, wack, wack. Can
1:09:05
I get rid of her? And
1:09:07
they were like, well, you can't have a divorce because
1:09:10
you're Catholic. He's like, all right, well, I'm
1:09:12
not Catholic anymore. Go fuck yourself. I made
1:09:14
his own thing and said, and in my
1:09:16
religion,
1:09:17
you totally can divorce. And I was like, class,
1:09:20
other stuff. Big two fingers through the Pope because
1:09:23
you were saying I'm the new God now. But
1:09:26
then declaring himself
1:09:28
like, oh, he declared himself
1:09:31
within the crown then. Oh, right.
1:09:33
And the bloodline and then like, there's loads
1:09:36
of magic, like the plantageness, the Tudors, like
1:09:39
going into like the Windsor's, which is a Saxburg
1:09:41
gotas. They're fucking like the queen is German.
1:09:43
Yeah. Shit. Right.
1:09:46
Yeah. And the, and Prince Philip
1:09:49
was a fucking Greek Nazi who marched with Hitler.
1:09:51
Don't forget that fucking wrinkly
1:09:54
liver spotted
1:09:56
child blood drinking. Conte
1:09:58
Lord. And Marcy probably. I'm just my granddad. I'm
1:10:01
not a Nazi, no relation. I just had, sorry,
1:10:04
I just had to make. We'll have
1:10:06
to check that out. We'll have to do a who do you think you are,
1:10:08
or a 23 and a me. Not, I'm not. I
1:10:11
did an ancestry and I'm not German at all.
1:10:14
My grandfather was adopted. Whew! Whew!
1:10:17
As German as the Windsor's,
1:10:18
am I right? Adopted from where
1:10:20
though? He was adopted by a
1:10:23
German family, so they are possibly
1:10:25
Nazis, but my bloodline
1:10:27
is not.
1:10:28
I keep doing that 23 and me
1:10:30
and I send away the thing and they keep on saying,
1:10:32
like, that it's, you're not, like,
1:10:35
they
1:10:35
send me back a complaint that they're saying, like, please stop
1:10:37
doing this. And I'm like, well, you have to send
1:10:39
me a bigger, a bigger thing then because
1:10:41
like, too much comes out and it fills it
1:10:43
over the top.
1:10:44
Are you talking about the sample you gave? Yeah, the
1:10:46
little chunk. Talking about ejaculation,
1:10:49
is this the? No, this is before COVID
1:10:51
swabs. This is where they, this is the OG. So they,
1:10:54
you gotta put like, get some DNA into a tube
1:10:56
and then you get your DNA or ancestry.
1:10:59
Yeah, but I fill it up to the top and I
1:11:01
put the thing on. And then they send it away
1:11:03
and they're like, this is not what we want. Like, they keep on saying,
1:11:06
they keep on saying the bank said, we can't sample this or whatever.
1:11:09
Why, because you send too much? That
1:11:11
doesn't seem, that seems like a weird problem that
1:11:13
they have. Yeah. I don't understand that.
1:11:16
I can't make you an apple pie. You gave me too many apples.
1:11:18
Yeah, you can just throw some away.
1:11:19
Yeah, but it's like, they keep on saying
1:11:21
that you're supposed to use the swab and stuff like
1:11:23
that. That's a curious
1:11:26
thing. Is it saliva that
1:11:28
you're providing them or like to
1:11:30
get your DNA? I've never done an ancestry.com
1:11:33
sample. I thought it was, I thought it was saliva.
1:11:35
Is it? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. What
1:11:38
were you doing? That's what I was saying. I thought he's
1:11:40
making an ejaculation joke. His face
1:11:42
is dropped. No, that's if you
1:11:44
want to figure out if you have any kids out there, Gordo. You have to
1:11:46
give your saliva to him. I originally thought
1:11:48
it was an ejaculation joke. I think the yolk of the small. And
1:11:50
then I was like, wait, no, no one's, no one's
1:11:53
on board with the ejaculation comments. So I'm like, okay,
1:11:55
so I'm the pervy one. Oh, I don't want, I don't think
1:11:57
I want to Facebook me. He wants to Facebook me.
1:12:00
wasn't a Jack Lachin joke. I
1:12:02
thought it was, I was the one who went to church
1:12:05
camp. But damn,
1:12:08
I'm so far away from the boat here. There's like a different
1:12:10
time zone back here. Perfectly.
1:12:11
I made it a few times. That's
1:12:14
the best that's ever worked. So
1:12:18
yeah, these, these, these fucking royal
1:12:20
motherfuckers were
1:12:21
shenanigans, right?
1:12:23
As 16th century into
1:12:27
17th century was a really
1:12:29
too much. It was time.
1:12:31
Charles II was
1:12:34
like a, a very prominent Protestant
1:12:37
King who was like, go fuck yourself.
1:12:39
Vatican. We're making our own rules here.
1:12:42
His son James II, James VII
1:12:44
to Scotland, the King of Ireland, England, Scotland at
1:12:46
the time, very powerful King, but
1:12:48
very contentious. And the people in England
1:12:50
were revolting. And
1:12:53
not just in the fact that their teeth look like, you
1:12:55
know, really disgusting. And they were covered in shit.
1:12:57
And it's all like peasants, like
1:12:59
some
1:12:59
other kinds. As
1:13:02
an American, just got to say, still looks like that. We
1:13:07
love our dental care.
1:13:07
It is. Fantastic. I
1:13:12
got braces. You
1:13:14
got it. I was thinking about going for those, uh,
1:13:16
uh, General's, uh, smile direct club. Invisalign.
1:13:19
Yeah. Just to fix, fix up my natures.
1:13:22
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. And the nicest
1:13:24
feeling is biting an apple after we've had your braces
1:13:27
off. It's just a clean lines all the way around. Your
1:13:29
teeth feel so gooey after having sharp
1:13:31
appliances on them for a couple of years. Yeah.
1:13:33
Right. Right. Right. Right. You know, I think I
1:13:35
don't think I can handle the whole metal mess, but, uh, I could
1:13:37
totally do a, do a
1:13:40
plastic, like a gum shield job.
1:13:41
And a visible line gum shield kind of crack.
1:13:43
Yeah. Um, so yeah, like, uh, uh, there's
1:13:46
a lot of protestation. There's a lot of revolting
1:13:49
Englishmen at the time, um,
1:13:51
writing in the streets and
1:13:52
because there's such a, um, seesaw
1:13:55
of Christianity and, uh, sorry,
1:13:57
Catholicism and a product.
1:13:59
Protestantism. Which is
1:14:02
why people were revolting going, could you just fuck
1:14:04
one? Because there was an effect
1:14:07
on those that were not in line with the
1:14:10
religion of the
1:14:10
hierarchy. Well, yeah. I mean, no more than in
1:14:12
the north of Ireland, where, you know, in
1:14:15
areas that were predominantly Catholic businesses
1:14:17
that were Catholic owned tended to do
1:14:19
better than Protestant businesses.
1:14:21
And then when the government switched and
1:14:24
provide, you know,
1:14:26
United Kingdom type care
1:14:28
in like the tax system, in the finance
1:14:30
system, in the social welfare,
1:14:32
social care system, in the medical system, that's
1:14:35
now in operation for a long
1:14:37
time. The Catholic business owners and Catholic,
1:14:40
you know, homeowners and these kind
1:14:43
of, I mean, you
1:14:45
kind of did a little bit, you kind of did subjugate
1:14:47
them a little bit. And it was dwindling.
1:14:50
Yeah. So in England, if you're
1:14:52
talking about like flip flop and drink Protestant
1:14:55
Christianity and Catholic Christianity,
1:14:58
obviously the people who were in power when it flip
1:15:00
flopped became not in power anymore.
1:15:03
And Protestants kind of rose to the top and you're
1:15:05
talking about in local politics, you're talking about because parliament
1:15:07
is in position at the time. But
1:15:11
down at the level of the Puritans, they were business
1:15:13
owners, they were, you know, merchants,
1:15:15
they were lawyers, they
1:15:18
had these reasonably prominent positions.
1:15:20
But if their religion wasn't the religion jizzur,
1:15:23
they were kind of disenfranchised in their
1:15:25
money making capabilities and their wealth
1:15:28
standing in the property that they
1:15:30
owned in the places that they could buy and live and
1:15:32
work and stay. So like, obviously,
1:15:35
this was a flip flop and
1:15:37
nightmare for the crown. And
1:15:41
church was the king.
1:15:42
It was one and the same. The king was had primacy
1:15:45
over the whole, what he said went. Yeah. And
1:15:47
it was an edict of the Lord, even
1:15:49
against like, you know, a political
1:15:54
legality or legislature. And
1:15:56
so to be a Protestant against the
1:15:58
church.
1:16:00
was to be treasonous because
1:16:02
it was against the king.
1:16:05
So these Puritans, they got on
1:16:07
a boat to the new world so that they wouldn't be persecuted
1:16:09
for their beliefs. And they left England
1:16:11
for Holland
1:16:12
first. So they didn't go to America first.
1:16:15
Put on their little bucket caps and they fucked off to Holland.
1:16:17
And they stayed there for 12 years until 1619. And
1:16:21
then hung out with the Dutch and the Dutch were all like, hey,
1:16:23
you guys, you got it really kind of shorted.
1:16:26
You have like a really good vibes around here. The
1:16:29
women, they're quiet, got
1:16:31
a lot of babies.
1:16:32
It's like, thank you. It's built on self-deprecation.
1:16:35
Yeah, exactly. We beat them
1:16:37
to do that. We try hard.
1:16:38
Yeah, I like the way
1:16:41
they don't talk and they have nine babies. It seems
1:16:43
like a good system. And I
1:16:46
do like your white linen knickers.
1:16:49
They're nice. They feel nice against my
1:16:52
legs. And the Dutch guys were like,
1:16:54
we fucking love this shit. Like, let's take this on
1:16:56
the road. And so the Dutch being
1:16:59
prolific sales,
1:17:01
sailors and boatsmen, they
1:17:04
got together with what was called the
1:17:06
Plymouth Company.
1:17:07
So you know, like the
1:17:09
Darjeeling Company and all of these different
1:17:11
companies. You had these different companies that
1:17:13
would sail and have fleets of boats. So
1:17:16
in 1620, they got on the famous Mayflower, which
1:17:19
landed in New England.
1:17:20
And then this was the first step
1:17:22
in the great Puritan migration. Wait,
1:17:25
why? 17th century. Why not just stay
1:17:27
in Holland if it was such a great deal? Because
1:17:29
again, the King of Holland was
1:17:32
a bit of a pup. And we find out then later
1:17:34
on that the move
1:17:36
to Protestantism, the thing that we're trying to get away
1:17:38
from or the reformation of the church ended
1:17:41
up in a very short time within like
1:17:44
maybe 60 years, the Kings
1:17:46
and Queens of Holland and England
1:17:49
became like
1:17:53
joined
1:17:54
acrimoniously in marriage.
1:17:56
Oh, they're all marrying each other. Yeah, they're
1:17:59
all noble. Holland was pretty impressive
1:18:01
at the time. And there was a load of fucking
1:18:03
Andy Sen like those Dutch lads get away with an awful lot of
1:18:05
stuff. So they were down in Africa poking around
1:18:08
making an, you know, Imperial Imperial pushes
1:18:10
into African territories to try and get like, you
1:18:13
know, diamonds and different kinds
1:18:15
of gems and stuff like that. And we're shipping
1:18:17
all the gems home to a massive
1:18:19
Jewish population that lived in
1:18:22
Holland that were kind of second class citizens
1:18:24
at the time as well. So like,
1:18:27
huge amount of Jews living in Holland.
1:18:29
And they were very, very wealthy, but
1:18:31
hated by all the Dutch
1:18:33
because they were like, well, you know, we're
1:18:35
out Imperializing Africa and we're bringing this
1:18:38
stuff home. And then you're the guys that get to polish
1:18:40
it up and value it. Go fuck yourself. Like
1:18:42
it's a real, like Holland is, I'm
1:18:44
Belgium
1:18:45
get away with so much when it comes to like
1:18:48
globalized, like, you know, uh,
1:18:51
uh, Imperialistic aggressive
1:18:53
world history. Germany gets all the
1:18:55
bad press. Yeah. Well,
1:18:57
understandably. So think
1:19:00
about what Belgium and Holland and France
1:19:02
did in Africa. I mean, just
1:19:05
as bad and maybe not as many dead
1:19:07
people
1:19:08
and maybe not as many dead of the one
1:19:10
type of person.
1:19:11
Yeah.
1:19:12
But like a lot of fucking fucked up situations
1:19:15
for sure. Of course, you know, that geopolitics
1:19:17
thing don't never sleeps. Like, yeah. So the
1:19:19
lads in Holland were kind of under the tongue
1:19:21
of their King as well. And
1:19:24
so they just fucked off. They were just like, let's go to a new
1:19:26
place. And this is why New York used
1:19:29
to be called new Amsterdam, uh,
1:19:31
with the Christmas tradition, as we know it,
1:19:34
there's a little aside, uh, the Christmas
1:19:36
tree that we have in Rockefeller Plaza and
1:19:38
this kind of stuff. Um, Christmas
1:19:40
itself decorating it with, with baubles,
1:19:42
uh, red and green. Um,
1:19:44
all
1:19:46
of our Christmas traditions like Santa Claus, Oh
1:19:48
yeah. Sinter, Sinterkoss and
1:19:50
black piece, Zartepit, like
1:19:52
all of those things. Yeah. That shit, like that all
1:19:54
comes from Holland. So like the American Christmas
1:19:58
that then true. culture proliferate
1:20:00
across the whole world as like, you
1:20:03
know, we know now comes from a
1:20:08
puritanical Dutch
1:20:11
settler migration
1:20:13
to the new world where they elevated
1:20:16
their own Christmas traditions, which was then melded
1:20:19
with Victorian Christmas,
1:20:21
Victorian Christmases that were brought from
1:20:23
German royalty as they married into the English,
1:20:25
which migrated to the US mingled with
1:20:27
the original puritanical Dutch and English
1:20:30
settlers and formed this modern Christmas
1:20:32
with all the trappings of like
1:20:34
a modern Christian
1:20:36
religious holiday. Yeah. All
1:20:39
of the fucking iconography of so
1:20:42
many older pagan traditions.
1:20:44
And
1:20:44
you may have really do that. Well, sorry, Betsey. Oh
1:20:46
yeah. Oh, I was gonna say, doesn't that what Christianity
1:20:49
is? Christianity is just kind of like a hodgepodge
1:20:52
of loads of other different religious, you know,
1:20:54
melting pot job. Yeah. You just got like,
1:20:56
you put like a little stew, you got a stew in
1:20:58
you just like what's leftover in the fridge. We got a little
1:21:00
bit of paganism here. We got a little bit of
1:21:02
bit of halal, a bit of
1:21:04
your days. I'm there. A bit of kosher. Yeah.
1:21:07
Yeah. But like the American, like all the same book
1:21:09
dude, but the accredit
1:21:11
to them, the Americans, they really do a good
1:21:14
job of like reincarnating holidays.
1:21:16
So like, even with Patrick's day, they die,
1:21:18
like Chicago dies. One of their rivers green. Yeah,
1:21:21
we do. As a dove, we don't even die
1:21:23
the leafy green. We're not that dedicated. We're like,
1:21:26
that's not a thing. Yeah. Someone
1:21:28
told me this recently
1:21:30
on green. Yeah. No, no. Just green
1:21:32
from like pond scum. Well,
1:21:34
someone told me this recently. And I know that
1:21:36
like, for example, I know a lot of Irish
1:21:38
people, y'all do get a little irritated
1:21:41
when Americans come over and we're like, I'm Irish too.
1:21:43
My great, great grandfather's cousins. The dog is from
1:21:45
down a girl, you know, and I get that
1:21:48
that is a little
1:21:48
mispronounced on the go. Yeah. Donna Gayle.
1:21:50
It's like, are they the two women, the two aunties
1:21:53
that are questionably in a relationship together or
1:21:55
are they, you know, how are you, Gayle? Are you
1:21:58
well?
1:21:59
I know it's pronounced Donegal guys Donegal
1:22:02
Donegal. You were I fucked up my own But
1:22:08
it's like I understand but then someone was telling me recently
1:22:10
that like yeah the Irish
1:22:12
Y'all did not celebrate st.
1:22:14
Patrick's Day as it celebrated now until
1:22:16
the Americans did like before it was a religious thing but
1:22:19
then it was kind of it was done
1:22:21
in America as a way for like
1:22:23
People with Irish ancestry to
1:22:26
you know reconnect with their roots celebrate your
1:22:28
history. Yeah Yeah, so someone and this was an Irish
1:22:30
person who told me that I'm going to my offer Irish people
1:22:32
it is It's like well. It's like a way for
1:22:34
Irish immigrants It's
1:22:37
more for like yeah, it's more like Irish immigrants
1:22:39
to reconnect with their roots, and you guys live
1:22:42
in Ireland You're already connected with your roots, so you can
1:22:44
fuck off
1:22:44
Yeah,
1:22:49
I'm very like Nationalistically
1:22:52
agnostic.
1:22:52
It's the fact that we didn't fuck off But yeah,
1:22:55
that's a y'all did everyone else fucked off, and they
1:22:57
need the holiday reconnect But
1:22:59
your Santa was green until Coca-Cola.
1:23:02
That's a miss no no that's false really
1:23:04
yes. That's false It's a false. Yeah,
1:23:06
my Santa Claus episode explains that And
1:23:09
it's not even because of Coca-Cola that he's read It's
1:23:11
because of a company called the white the
1:23:14
white torn soda company
1:23:18
Interesting made it who made a drink
1:23:20
a fizzy drink that wasn't a Coca-Cola. It was like
1:23:22
it was like a so like a soda
1:23:25
water, and they used Santa Claus
1:23:27
as their
1:23:28
Spokesperson and they were the first ones to make him
1:23:30
red and white Okay,
1:23:33
but he was green Because of Coca-Cola.
1:23:35
Thank you, and it wasn't because of that white
1:23:38
torn either It was because he was read before
1:23:40
it in a poem
1:23:42
Do you know the one was like an altar
1:23:45
the house and the creature was dying that even mess that
1:23:47
one Christmas night before
1:23:49
Christmas in 1908 and he was like creeping
1:23:51
across the Rooftops and going down the chimneys
1:23:53
and he said and his red and white coat
1:23:56
and that was how it was red noise
1:23:57
gotcha you
1:24:00
know. But all of these things are coming from like an
1:24:02
ancient religion, like all of these things brought over by
1:24:04
the Dutch. So these Puritans were coming
1:24:06
to Massachusetts, making this shit happen.
1:24:08
Um,
1:24:09
a bit of poetic license going on. Exactly.
1:24:11
Changing them up. I love the way Americans take
1:24:13
their own thing and, uh,
1:24:15
take everybody else's thing and make it their own thing.
1:24:17
And add money. We just add money to
1:24:19
put a bit of capitalism on it. Yeah.
1:24:23
Yeah. No, it's great. Like if you listen to, I don't
1:24:25
know if you listen to our pyramids episode, but definitely
1:24:27
St. Patrick was an awful cunt. Like the real St.
1:24:29
Patrick
1:24:30
motherfucker. If he was real, I don't think he was
1:24:32
really, I think he's an allegory for, uh, the
1:24:35
Catholic church
1:24:38
coming to Ireland and I
1:24:40
was staying the original
1:24:43
religion, the pagan religion that was here. Yeah.
1:24:45
That's supposedly essentially their own, their
1:24:47
own witch trials. Yeah. And the snakes
1:24:50
are like the lizards, you
1:24:52
know, the pagans, the pagans. Yeah.
1:24:54
I was to the St. Patrick. I think he's a motherfucker.
1:24:56
Just in the Dundalk or
1:24:58
where was it? Where
1:25:00
were
1:25:00
we? Oh, in the, in the Casa bar
1:25:02
or something like that. There's a big statue of St. Patrick
1:25:05
and on it. It's like, Oh, it was a bad
1:25:07
console. I was like, it's a big
1:25:09
thing. Like basically like a Mia
1:25:11
Culpa for being an asshole on the
1:25:13
statue of a picture of the trailer. But like
1:25:16
he was a terrible cunt. Um, so that's
1:25:18
why we weren't celebrating St. Patrick's.
1:25:20
He fucking robbed us of her. Well, he's
1:25:23
originally Welsh too, isn't he? Yeah. So you
1:25:25
don't have to claim.
1:25:28
Have you ever seen a clover? It's
1:25:30
like the three gods, three into the one, three into the
1:25:32
one like ham and cheese and butter.
1:25:36
Well, did you also, well, allegedly, uh,
1:25:38
you know, same Bridget, same Bridget
1:25:40
was like, basically
1:25:41
St. Patrick
1:25:43
was her only fan. So she loved St. Patrick
1:25:46
and she proposed to him and he said,
1:25:48
ah, sorry, love. So he gave her a
1:25:50
cloak. So that kind of starts the whole thing
1:25:53
of on the 29th of the, of February,
1:25:55
women can propose to men. Oh, but also
1:25:58
if they say, no, you get it, you get a piece
1:25:59
You get a present to
1:26:02
lighten the blow, to lighten the blow. Yeah. To
1:26:05
lighten the blow. To blow for a blow. That's
1:26:07
where, another Irish thing is where,
1:26:09
yeah, leap years where women can propose to men came
1:26:11
between St. Bridge and St. Paddy.
1:26:14
Savage. Didn't know that. And
1:26:16
what was the St. Bridge's cross then just her like doing a little bit
1:26:18
of crafting to get over this being rejected?
1:26:20
Little bit. Yeah. Do
1:26:23
you know what? I'm going to put this. I'm going
1:26:25
to make, I seen a fella throwing something that kind of looks like this
1:26:28
and really hard. What's
1:26:30
it called? A ninja star. Yeah,
1:26:32
that's what
1:26:32
I'm going to make a religious ninja
1:26:34
start getting his good books because he's
1:26:36
here spreading Catholicism.
1:26:39
I'm not a blacksmith, so I can't make it out of
1:26:41
metal, but this will have to do. Yeah. It
1:26:43
was a weapon. So yeah, they're the ducher in America,
1:26:46
given the socks with the Puritans and they're all kind of mixing
1:26:48
up their, their cultures. And this is this, you
1:26:50
know, famous mayflower. All
1:26:52
the kids get taught about it in school in America. You
1:26:54
know, the mayflower came and it was great. Yeah.
1:26:57
Religious
1:26:57
freedom. Well, actually what they taught us,
1:27:00
they were taught like, yeah, America
1:27:02
was great. Everyone came to America because we were
1:27:04
the only ones who had religious freedom and
1:27:06
we're free and that's what makes America great. But
1:27:09
like,
1:27:09
then we were also taught later in high school, I
1:27:11
was told this by a teacher who was not
1:27:14
afraid to be less patriotic.
1:27:16
Um, cause I think the American education system is
1:27:19
like, you know, gets like a huge boner for patriotism.
1:27:22
Oh yeah. Yeah. It's a bit
1:27:24
much. It's a bit much. One teacher of mine
1:27:26
told us, he was like, yeah, the Puritans came over because
1:27:29
of like, they wanted religious freedom, but
1:27:32
they were like, we,
1:27:33
they, they were still like, Hey,
1:27:35
you have to be a Puritan in our town. Like we
1:27:37
over there, they didn't let us be Puritan,
1:27:39
but over here, if you're living with us, you
1:27:41
also have to be fucking pure. So they weren't religiously
1:27:44
tolerant. The freedom to be more.
1:27:46
Yeah. They were like, we were pressed
1:27:48
over there. So we're going to come over here and oppress others.
1:27:51
Yeah. Was how I was taught. Cause, cause
1:27:53
oppression is fine as long as it's not always being oppressed.
1:27:55
Right. Yeah. Exactly.
1:27:58
That's it. Yeah.
1:27:59
right? Yeah, it's easier to be the
1:28:02
majority. I guess we
1:28:04
won't get into that. Uh, yeah,
1:28:07
that's for Patreon.
1:28:10
No, you're dead, right? You're dead, right? The oppressor.
1:28:12
Uh, it's always the best to be the oppressor. Now
1:28:15
shut up. A man is talking. Um,
1:28:17
uh, so all these folks were still subjects
1:28:20
of the Kings, all these puritans that had came to America.
1:28:22
I mean, far as Bessie said, religious
1:28:24
freedom, the freedom to oppress, uh,
1:28:26
there were still kind of under the
1:28:29
control of the King that we're trying to get away from.
1:28:32
So
1:28:33
the politics of the old country and the
1:28:35
people that were sent over to govern over them, uh,
1:28:38
we're still all having detrimental effects on their
1:28:40
governance, their finances, which may
1:28:43
have compounded the stresses that led to
1:28:45
the political strife, which spurred on the
1:28:47
hysteria about the witches in new England.
1:28:50
So these people were under
1:28:53
pressure, religious, political
1:28:56
and financial and governmental like,
1:28:58
like, like the
1:29:00
laws that were being made,
1:29:02
they felt were subjugating them still were
1:29:04
under stress. Businessmen were paying taxes
1:29:07
way too high. I mean, it's a hundred years
1:29:09
before a full revolution. I mean,
1:29:11
Joe, these guys are
1:29:14
pissed, right?
1:29:17
It wasn't an isolated insulin in Salem
1:29:20
and the witches are fear of them at
1:29:22
least stood for much more than a woman
1:29:25
on a brush with a cat.
1:29:27
This is not, um, an attack on
1:29:29
the occult. This is not an attack on Satan.
1:29:32
No matter how much, you know, these puritans were
1:29:34
like, Oh, be
1:29:36
gone. When she league with Satan.
1:29:38
It's not about fucking religion. Religion
1:29:41
is never about religion. Religion is about power. These
1:29:43
lads wanted to exercise their
1:29:45
power and that's kind of like the bully
1:29:48
being bullied. It's the lad that gets bet by his
1:29:50
dad home and comes into school and hits a
1:29:52
smaller kid. This is what these motherfuckers
1:29:54
are doing. Like politically, they're getting spanked
1:29:57
by the King and
1:29:59
they're then spanking. their subjects because think
1:30:01
about it,
1:30:02
these motherfuckers have like left everything
1:30:05
behind. Yeah. They travel across the
1:30:07
sea like there's no going back. Like you're not getting another
1:30:09
another coffin ship to risk your
1:30:11
life for six weeks at sea with
1:30:14
fucking diarrhea forever and like eating
1:30:16
fucking wet biscuits and trying not to
1:30:18
fucking accidentally inhale some shit while you're asleep
1:30:20
at nighttime. You know, someone has
1:30:22
shat on the floor and you're asleep on the floor and
1:30:24
the boat rocks kind of away and it slides
1:30:27
along on the piss covered floor and you're like, yeah,
1:30:30
accidentally like inhale like two nuggets of someone's
1:30:32
shot.
1:30:32
Like no one's going to fucking risk that
1:30:34
for six weeks every night to go home
1:30:37
again. Yeah. That's the price. I'm describing
1:30:39
Amtrak trains for a second there. That's
1:30:42
the price. They're the ones that travel across America and they have
1:30:44
like 50 people on the outside of them and they're all
1:30:46
hanging on with their, oh no, that's India.
1:30:48
That's
1:30:48
India. No, Amtrak is a bit
1:30:51
shite though. Yeah. Like the grayhound
1:30:53
of the rail. Yeah, it is. It is like the grayhound
1:30:55
of the rail. But
1:30:57
yeah, this is the thing. They're not going to fucking risk it for a biscuit.
1:30:59
Right. So they wanted to lead by example
1:31:02
and lead lives that would set a religious
1:31:04
example to others, which could inspire folks
1:31:06
to reform Christianity in America
1:31:09
and at home in England.
1:31:11
Live the life that you,
1:31:14
what was Gandhi saying? Like live, live,
1:31:16
live, just do it. I know that's Nike. Live
1:31:19
the life of your dreams. I thought you're going
1:31:21
to live the life you remember.
1:31:23
And I'm like, that's a Vichy.
1:31:26
Live the life that you wanted to
1:31:28
as a, as a child or so. I don't know.
1:31:30
It's one of them to like be, be,
1:31:32
be the, be the, be the, be the something
1:31:34
you want to see in the world. Be the change you want to see in the world.
1:31:37
Yeah. That's what these mofuckas are up to. They're like
1:31:39
being the change are so they say I'm
1:31:41
getting flashbacks to church camp. Good.
1:31:45
Be the change you want to see in the world. And
1:31:48
also I have the hiccups.
1:31:50
Sorry. No, I was going to say something terrible there. Um,
1:31:53
I was just thinking church camp was
1:31:55
just like, and also I'd see you in cabin
1:31:57
five. Yeah, do it. No, it's fine. I can
1:31:59
make jokes about that. coming, going over
1:32:01
there to be the change. The
1:32:05
Plymouth colony was one of the most devout
1:32:08
in New England, but John Winthrop,
1:32:10
who was a lawyer, wanted to make a colony that wouldn't
1:32:12
just be about religion, as he saw the potential
1:32:15
of the new world and the growing ideologically
1:32:17
sympathetic population, basically
1:32:20
dollar signs in his eyes like Scrooge McDuck. When
1:32:22
he saw all these like religiously wide
1:32:24
open, uh, uh, you know,
1:32:27
metaphorical buttholes for him
1:32:29
to stick his big religious cock into.
1:32:31
He was just like, these motherfuckers
1:32:34
are in another country. They're
1:32:36
alone, isolated, fearing.
1:32:38
Yeah. And they're ready to work. Let's
1:32:41
fucking go. That's hot. Such
1:32:44
a fucking, uh, that's
1:32:47
hot. Like,
1:32:48
like Paris. Yeah. Just
1:32:53
like, if I had like a button
1:32:55
for sting, just every time I say like, and
1:32:58
it's religiously, politically subjugated,
1:33:00
it's hot.
1:33:01
That's
1:33:03
funny, man. So some of the original colonies
1:33:06
then
1:33:06
began to fail. So we're talking about 1640, 1650 thereabouts
1:33:10
and the Puritans thought that this was a punishment from God
1:33:13
for creating a colony for something other
1:33:15
than religious freedom.
1:33:16
Oh, of course it did. So why would they ever blame
1:33:18
themselves in their own individual efforts? Of course it's
1:33:20
something supernatural. This is feeding into their mindset
1:33:23
of everything outside my control is supernatural,
1:33:25
no blame. Not holding myself
1:33:28
to a personal account.
1:33:28
We're white and Christian. It must
1:33:31
be God's wrath. So
1:33:33
the, the, the Massachusetts colony,
1:33:36
which was thriving under the, uh, uh,
1:33:38
leadership of John Winthrop, uh,
1:33:41
they ended up having to like buy out these
1:33:43
failing
1:33:44
colonies like the Plymouth colony and others around.
1:33:47
So if you see the map of that
1:33:50
Northern Massachusetts, just a little bit above, uh,
1:33:52
North, North of Boston, uh, there's
1:33:54
loads of kind of little deltas and little, you
1:33:56
know, little bays and stuff that had like loads
1:33:59
of space for both to come.
1:33:59
in and there was like, those of
1:34:03
like merchant ships coming in and out and
1:34:05
going down the coast and trading with everyone up and down
1:34:07
the coast and stuff like that. Like these ads were honest.
1:34:10
Um,
1:34:11
there were the, the, the mouth from
1:34:13
Europe into America. Like they should have been making
1:34:15
a bomb. They were fucking up. They
1:34:18
were fucking up. John Winthrop was
1:34:20
just like, screw my dog shit, man.
1:34:22
This is
1:34:23
why Howard. They're not making a bomb here. So
1:34:26
from 1633, non-conformists
1:34:30
in the church in England began to get roused
1:34:33
it. So in England, there
1:34:36
was a, there was a calling of, of
1:34:38
people who weren't, uh, you
1:34:41
know, coalescing with the Protestant Kings,
1:34:44
dictates, and we're talking about Charles II here. So
1:34:46
the migration for these religious refugees,
1:34:48
they call the increased exponentially.
1:34:51
So we're talking about more puritans, the second wave, big
1:34:53
wave, second wave, the most tremendous
1:34:55
wave of Puritans coming.
1:34:57
Oh, don't say second wave to me. Boats
1:35:01
and boats and boats and boats. So people started to
1:35:03
move now for financial reasons rather than religious
1:35:05
persecution. Because,
1:35:08
uh,
1:35:08
when they found out that the success that the way that
1:35:11
I'm across the sea, they were like, whoa, the lads
1:35:13
are making balls of money.
1:35:15
They packed up all their stuff and they followed their pastors.
1:35:17
So if the pastor of their church in England
1:35:20
was like, I'm going over to,
1:35:22
uh, I'm going over to Boston. I'm
1:35:24
going to go to Massachusetts. I heard it's
1:35:26
right good over there. And we
1:35:28
can like,
1:35:29
subjugate our women over there. And nobody
1:35:32
really minds. What is this accent here?
1:35:34
It's like a, it's like a redneck Englishman.
1:35:37
Corn moles. Like said, yes. Oh, is that
1:35:39
what that is? I was like, aye. So
1:35:42
we're heading over there. Okay. People from the
1:35:44
north been like,
1:35:46
no, I can't think. Think Cheryl
1:35:48
Cole. Oh yeah. Well,
1:35:52
I'm off to Massachusetts. Sat
1:35:56
my own village. Why not? And
1:35:58
it just fucked up and packed up and went.
1:35:59
followed over pastors followed their employers
1:36:02
were like okay okay
1:36:05
gang gather around team okay so
1:36:07
what I'm doing is I'm going pack up to business
1:36:10
I'm going fuck off packs it booked it fucked
1:36:12
off to Manchester out to Massachusetts
1:36:15
and they just packed up their home and then everyone was like you're
1:36:17
coming with me who's coming with me Oh
1:36:19
Jerry Maguire who's coming with me
1:36:21
and they just went yeah all right packed up
1:36:23
their families packed up the whole boat
1:36:26
and bounced so this is like this full
1:36:29
financial migration no
1:36:30
profiling whatsoever going we need
1:36:32
an engineer we need a farmer it's just like you know
1:36:34
what yeah power and masses you're
1:36:36
coming with me and that's probably why the
1:36:38
first wave was such a failure it was just like I
1:36:41
sure if we bring 50 men we have 50 men yeah
1:36:42
and they all have to just believe in God we're
1:36:45
actually bringing over like actual skilled
1:36:47
people yeah not just ones that are you
1:36:49
know religiously devout is not the only criteria
1:36:53
but by the same token that will be
1:36:55
now the second wave is diluting that religious
1:36:58
fervor possibly bringing over
1:37:00
people that were a little bit less savory
1:37:02
in the eyes of the puritanical
1:37:05
leadership
1:37:07
and started to sow seeds
1:37:09
of maybe a
1:37:12
moral decay people
1:37:14
started being doing shit like fucking and sucking
1:37:17
and squeezing and you
1:37:18
know drinking and drugging and you
1:37:21
know original booker wearers weren't at yeah
1:37:24
fuckers were like
1:37:25
fuck them buckles American
1:37:28
chase their ankles everywhere
1:37:30
again yeah yeah but they were all about it right
1:37:32
as soon as they got there and in the start fucking doing like
1:37:35
Massachusetts was like yeah
1:37:37
pretty staunchly religious but those
1:37:39
people who were just at it were over there going I'm
1:37:41
finally I'm out I'm free yeah
1:37:43
exactly some shit like right yeah so they followed
1:37:45
pastors and pliers like I said and the colony
1:37:48
was now being populated by these people who weren't
1:37:50
as devout or on message as
1:37:52
the original habitants but they were successful and ambitious
1:37:55
and skilled as a leash said the
1:37:57
migration began slanking off then at the late 1640s
1:37:59
And the reforms of the crowning church changed
1:38:02
the political climate in England for the time being
1:38:04
anyway,
1:38:05
which slowed down the
1:38:06
mass exit of the South of England.
1:38:08
Wasn't that the Oliver Cromwell time?
1:38:11
I know that like in around
1:38:13
Charles II and James II, it was
1:38:15
a bit of a reshuffle.
1:38:16
You have me there now, I don't know,
1:38:18
but I know that it was definitely like James
1:38:20
II got booted. He
1:38:22
got married. And William of Orange got put
1:38:25
in. He got booted. Don't know about Cromwell at
1:38:27
that time.
1:38:27
Yeah, Cromwell was just like, here.
1:38:29
Do we really need a, you know, a
1:38:32
crown or do we really need a king or a queen? They're
1:38:34
so disconnected with the everyday person.
1:38:37
So they, you know, the, oh, I'm
1:38:40
not going to say the hierarchy. What is it? The,
1:38:42
so the royals fled.
1:38:44
Yes. But he's then
1:38:46
the, yeah, but he's then the emperor
1:38:48
going, okay. And he was actually more strict
1:38:51
than the royals. And he was just
1:38:53
like, you know, no brothels, no
1:38:55
drinking. And we're all going to church on a Sunday.
1:38:58
And the public were like, this is, this is worse. So
1:39:01
bring
1:39:01
back the king. Bring back the king. I
1:39:03
honestly, I don't know about Cromwell, but
1:39:05
I do know that when James II was getting
1:39:08
serious with it, he was really
1:39:10
cracking down and saying like, I am, we're going to talk
1:39:12
about now, I am the king. Yeah. Um,
1:39:15
that had ended up being changed over
1:39:17
so that like the parliament then got the
1:39:19
power and that the church was the church and the
1:39:21
state was the state. The king wasn't like the
1:39:24
full, uh,
1:39:25
rounded row of any while
1:39:27
over the whole, like it wasn't a monarch,
1:39:30
a monarchy anymore. Really as such. Um,
1:39:33
like
1:39:33
imagine living in that area and you're like,
1:39:35
this is getting rough. Let's the
1:39:38
fucking
1:39:38
king is fucking up.
1:39:41
We can't go nowhere. We can't do
1:39:43
nothing. We can't see nobody. Does it
1:39:45
remind you of anything? No. I
1:39:47
think history repeats itself. Yeah.
1:39:51
This is the thing. Why didn't we all just, uh, emigrate? Cause it
1:39:53
was nowhere to go. Cause it was everywhere. Yeah. Yeah.
1:39:57
Um, you can't, you can't, you can't earn a just before
1:39:59
it started, right? No, I came
1:40:01
to Ireland in 2016. Oh,
1:40:04
that's the other epidemic. The
1:40:07
other thing I came. I was just like, I'm out.
1:40:10
Actually, that's not far off, actually.
1:40:13
You're not far off. Although I've, yeah.
1:40:15
Yeah, I mean, well, we got, oh,
1:40:18
I'm after doing it. I'm after doing an
1:40:20
action test. Oh, what was it for? Populism.
1:40:22
Yeah. I'm positive.
1:40:26
Tell them all about it, those conspiracy
1:40:28
guys.
1:40:32
So yeah, look at the practice of witchcraft. Maybe,
1:40:35
Betsy, because you were a practitioner of
1:40:37
witchcraft in your youth, maybe you can bring
1:40:40
us through a little bit of the actual practice of it. That's
1:40:42
just a little bit of the history of the time to
1:40:44
give a
1:40:45
canvas of the
1:40:47
kind of people that we're dealing with when we look at these
1:40:49
judgmental, buccal hat
1:40:51
having cunts who are willing
1:40:53
to point fingers and hang women
1:40:56
on mere accusations. The original hipsters
1:40:58
of the day. For sure. They're fucking
1:41:01
knickers. So the practice of
1:41:03
witchcraft at this time was a
1:41:05
religious-based
1:41:06
fear. It was a real thing in their mind, right?
1:41:09
Yeah, so the practice of
1:41:11
witchcraft is mentioned in the Bible. It's
1:41:13
quoted in Exodus 22, 18, which says, thou
1:41:17
shalt not suffer a witch to live, or
1:41:19
Deuteronomy, there shall not
1:41:21
be found among you anyone that maketh his
1:41:23
son or his daughter to pass through the fire,
1:41:26
or that useth divination,
1:41:29
or an observer of times, or an enchanter,
1:41:31
or a witch.
1:41:32
Now, I tried to find out from that quote.
1:41:35
I know what divination is using a little
1:41:37
stick to find water. An
1:41:39
enchanter, you're obviously enchanting
1:41:42
objects and stuff. Like a Harry Potter. Exactly.
1:41:45
Like a Har Kruch's job. We
1:41:47
know what a witch is. I could not find,
1:41:49
and maybe some clever Jack at home
1:41:52
will be able to tell me in a DM on Instagram or something
1:41:54
like that. What does an observer
1:41:56
of times? Like a fortune teller?
1:41:58
Is it a fortune teller?
1:41:59
somebody who does astrology, is
1:42:02
it somebody who uses the moon,
1:42:04
maybe in like an Ayurvedic sense, you know, when they're
1:42:07
doing, Yeah, I know. Do you know when they're
1:42:09
doing the Ayurveda is like the Indian
1:42:11
medicine, the Eastern medicine where you
1:42:14
pick the herbs and stuff, but you have to do it at
1:42:16
a certain time of the moon
1:42:18
cycle. The moon cycle. Maybe
1:42:20
it's something like that. So maybe someone can reach out to me and
1:42:22
tell me what observer of times means in the anti-witch
1:42:25
biblical sense. Just, I don't know what it
1:42:27
is. Do you know? No, I guess it's
1:42:29
as good as mine. Bible camp?
1:42:31
I'm just thinking again about Bible camp
1:42:33
because I wasn't to like astrology
1:42:35
a little bit because obviously I couldn't
1:42:37
pick a fucking lane, right? But
1:42:40
when I was at church and I was talking about
1:42:41
astrology and I was like, Ayla,
1:42:46
she's losing her shit over here. She's
1:42:49
just amazed at how many things you tried to fill the hole in
1:42:51
your soul. I know, that's exactly it. And you actually landed
1:42:53
on a side. And then I went to college and I filled another hole
1:42:55
and
1:42:55
then I was like, and then I went to
1:42:59
science. That's true. I had
1:43:01
a huge, I
1:43:02
had my big old college sluggers.
1:43:05
No, no, I was like extremely prudish
1:43:08
and like a good little Christian girl. Then when I gave that up,
1:43:10
I became a massive college slut. Yeah.
1:43:13
Good times. You changed it from Bible camp
1:43:15
s'mores to college time whores. Yeah.
1:43:19
Yeah. I love it. But no, but when I was into the astrology
1:43:21
stuff and I was like at church and I made a comment like, Oh,
1:43:23
because I'm a cancer. And they got
1:43:25
like real serious with me. And they're like, that's witchcraft.
1:43:28
Like seriously. And then I'm just sitting there. I'm
1:43:30
like, Oh my God. Astrology astrology. Oh,
1:43:32
and then I think I also made a comment once someone
1:43:34
was saying like, Oh, I had a dream that my
1:43:36
teeth were falling out. And I was like, Oh, that's a sign
1:43:38
that you're stressed. I think that's like common knowledge.
1:43:41
Just if you have a dream about your teeth falling
1:43:43
out, that's a sign you're stressed. And they were like, that's witchcraft.
1:43:45
Yeah. Is that what observer of times means?
1:43:47
That's what I'm saying. Yeah.
1:43:49
Some kind of a dream reader or something. Yeah.
1:43:52
Just some of that, some of that shit. Yeah. Yeah.
1:43:55
It's weird. That's fucking Bible can, can fuck off. It's
1:43:57
great papers for rolling joints. If you're really.
1:43:59
Yeah, like you get the old king. He get
1:44:02
the old what's it called or doorstop? Scare
1:44:06
children as well. It's like horse my
1:44:08
brother my aunt came over Hello religious aunt
1:44:11
told him about the devil He literally slept with
1:44:13
the Bible under his pillow for a year because
1:44:15
he was Convinced that the devil was
1:44:17
gonna hunt him down personally because
1:44:20
that's what my aunt told him if any six If
1:44:22
anyone's seen the Shawshank redemption, he probably
1:44:25
had a little chisel on the inside cut
1:44:27
into the Bible so that he had a weapon If
1:44:31
the devil came to his door
1:44:32
he had like a holy candle sharpened to a point.
1:44:34
Yes, and I appreciate that that creativity
1:44:38
Study my brother does have a degree in Christian
1:44:40
education now coincidence. I think
1:44:43
not fuck you at Maryland
1:44:45
What does he have a degree in
1:44:47
Christian education? But like
1:44:50
from all of it Nazarene University is
1:44:52
that the oh my god That was the deepest
1:44:54
caught of the fear of the devil that he actually
1:44:57
like studied his whole life Yeah
1:44:59
to know every is he like a John Constantine
1:45:02
kind of character now work Holy
1:45:04
bat, like would he be able to do an exorcism?
1:45:06
Did he fully commit? Yes a priest now Funny
1:45:10
enough he Was like fully
1:45:13
fully committed but then his his
1:45:16
roommate who was like who's his
1:45:18
best friend came out as gay And then
1:45:22
my brother was kind of homophobic before
1:45:24
but then when his roommate came out as gay He was like
1:45:26
well, I don't think Tom's going to hell and then that
1:45:28
kind of started pulling the thread a little bit now
1:45:30
I mean, yeah, my brother is very Pro
1:45:34
LGBT rights
1:45:35
just want to say he's not a homophobe or
1:45:37
anything used to be but definitely not anymore Everybody
1:45:40
can change. Yeah, everyone can change and I think he's
1:45:42
actually told me recently that he is Starting
1:45:44
to question his beliefs and he is going
1:45:47
back to school because he realized his degree
1:45:49
in Christian education is fucking useless So
1:45:52
he's going back to school to study psychology in
1:45:54
the fall. So nice which
1:45:56
arguably is in the same line of work.
1:45:58
Yeah He just wanted to help people. He
1:46:01
just wanted to help people. Tell me about your mother
1:46:03
instead of like, tell me about God the father.
1:46:06
Yeah, exactly. It's a little bit different. Yeah. There's
1:46:09
a little voice inside of your head. And
1:46:11
if you're in the church, it's God's voice. And if
1:46:13
you're in the... In the chair. The
1:46:16
Freudian school, it's your
1:46:18
own voice. Yeah. I'm not mother.
1:46:20
Exactly. Tell me about your father. Yeah,
1:46:23
so sorry to interrupt you, but I just wanted to know what the observer
1:46:25
of times meant. Yeah. I never
1:46:27
knew your family was so crazy religious. Well, it was
1:46:29
actually just... It was serendipitously appropriate
1:46:30
for the answer. It's like jackpot. Yeah. Well,
1:46:33
it's like something... I knew you were a fucking enigma spare. I didn't know
1:46:35
all the curves. Like perfectly...
1:46:38
None of my parents are religious. Yeah,
1:46:41
but I mean, all the kids ended up being religious, which is
1:46:43
even weirder. Well, I guess, yeah, I suppose.
1:46:46
Yeah. Like how did you manage
1:46:48
to find God? Like you were in Bible camp. Well,
1:46:50
legit... And then I found a Bible camp.
1:46:52
I stopped being religious around the time I was 20. I
1:46:55
have a comp side degree. And then I studied space
1:46:57
science technology for my masters, which is basically
1:46:59
like astrophysics.
1:47:00
Trying to find God in the sky. In
1:47:02
the sky. No, I was like full on, like I'm agnostic
1:47:04
now. And I was like, no. And I remember when I told
1:47:07
some of my relatives... He's hiding just right behind the pillars
1:47:09
of creation. Yeah, exactly. And
1:47:11
I told my... Peek-a-boo. Or as Ricky Gervais
1:47:13
said, he's in the sky, but not the clouds
1:47:15
a little further, but not the galaxy yet. Yeah,
1:47:18
the galaxy. Yeah. But
1:47:20
I told my relatives, like some of my Southern relatives,
1:47:22
I was studying essentially astrophysics
1:47:25
and they were like, oh, is that why you're not a Christian anymore?
1:47:27
That's what led you astray.
1:47:29
And I was like, no, it's you crazy bitches.
1:47:31
Yeah. And the fucking payback, is
1:47:33
it a joke? Yeah. Funny. Yeah.
1:47:36
But this the thing, like, it's very strange
1:47:38
to hear of parents that are a-religious and then the kids
1:47:40
that are very religious. Maybe it's not. Maybe
1:47:42
I'm just looking from an Irish perspective. Is that what
1:47:44
happens in America when your parents are totally like mad
1:47:47
agnostic and then the kids go like, well, I need something
1:47:50
to fill that soul hole.
1:47:51
I think... And then you go and find religion or
1:47:53
like...
1:47:54
They definitely pray. I
1:47:57
shouldn't say pray. Maybe I should pray on
1:47:59
kids with... bad
1:48:01
home lives because I will say it was at least
1:48:03
it was good for me to like
1:48:04
go to pray or P-R-E-Y.
1:48:07
Yeah. Yeah. Like it
1:48:09
was good for me to at least hang
1:48:11
out there after school instead of like,
1:48:13
you know, doing drugs.
1:48:14
Yeah. So I guess it would
1:48:17
benefit me in that way. Like, yeah,
1:48:19
absolutely. No, it's just I never knew that. So
1:48:22
it's all serendipitous for the episode.
1:48:24
Yeah. Great insights. So yeah, sorry to interrupt
1:48:26
you about the times, but I don't forgive
1:48:29
you. Kill yourself.
1:48:31
Yeah. Observer of times and
1:48:34
let's see what else? Oh, Leviticus. It says
1:48:36
how they should be punished where they shall
1:48:38
surely be put to death and stone them
1:48:40
with stones and their blood shall be upon
1:48:42
them. But it doesn't accurately give an account
1:48:45
of exactly what
1:48:46
constitutes a witch as we were saying. Yeah.
1:48:48
There's no menu of witchery
1:48:50
in the Bible. It's just like the word
1:48:52
witch and we know like, you know, Kings
1:48:55
James version. It's just his version of
1:48:57
it. The mistranslations from,
1:48:59
you know, the ancient languages, the Bibles were written in
1:49:01
and as it goes along, along, along, along. Was
1:49:04
it, was it which, was it always which
1:49:06
I do know. And we'll talk about later that
1:49:09
even
1:49:09
like the personalities that were involved in the
1:49:12
Connecticut
1:49:13
witch trials, the, the, even
1:49:15
the Pendle Hill in England, the Salem witch
1:49:17
trials and all the stuff through Europe between the 14th
1:49:19
and 17th centuries, like all the details
1:49:22
are changed. All the stuff was made it to
1:49:24
seem an awful lot like more anti-Christian
1:49:26
and satanic than it
1:49:28
actually was in real life. Like, um,
1:49:31
even though there's court documents and stuff, stuff being falsified
1:49:33
or you know, so like
1:49:35
which the word witch in the Bible was
1:49:38
always which like the
1:49:40
term which your witchcraft,
1:49:41
were they just censoring the term bitch? I
1:49:43
don't. Yeah. They just meant to say bitch. We got
1:49:46
a sensor and put a W. Do you know, like
1:49:48
in those movies? I don't know. Maybe you didn't, you know,
1:49:50
when they're redubbed
1:49:52
for cable during the daytime and all
1:49:55
that shut up, you witch. Where my witch
1:49:57
is at? Yeah. Yeah. This kind of stuff.
1:49:59
Witch, please. Please, please. She's
1:50:02
such a witch, but it's one of those
1:50:04
things where they change
1:50:07
the words of things and then that's taken as
1:50:09
common parents. I don't know if
1:50:12
which is a word that someone
1:50:14
might people would use. Reach into your dams and be like this
1:50:16
is the source of it. Oh
1:50:18
yeah. Ancient Hebrew is there a word which
1:50:20
that means the same thing that we think of as which, which
1:50:23
I think is why there's
1:50:25
no
1:50:26
caught and dry definition in
1:50:28
the Bible of what a witch is. It's
1:50:30
just the witchcraft, the tendency toward the
1:50:34
badness of the devil, devil fondling.
1:50:36
It was probably that approach to it that like, you know, religion
1:50:39
also raises so many questions, but
1:50:41
then when you try to get a direct answers, I was like, no, we'll get
1:50:43
into that. So they left it fake.
1:50:45
They're like, we got, we got on into
1:50:48
that, but just be very afraid. Like the fear
1:50:50
is the main thing. Yeah, the fear is
1:50:52
the main message trying to get
1:50:54
under point.
1:50:54
Yeah. At this point, they don't matter. It
1:50:57
doesn't matter at this point, but just be afraid. It's just the
1:50:59
same thing basically. Um, and then in dark ages,
1:51:01
Europe 14th century, witches were heretics
1:51:04
and worshipers of the devil. Ooh,
1:51:06
love that guy. Practitioners of
1:51:08
dark magic and pagan ritual
1:51:10
outside of the comfortable and pervasive Christian
1:51:12
ideology. And then from the early 1300s
1:51:15
to the 1500s in Europe, which
1:51:18
is where we are. Oh my God.
1:51:19
Oh my God. I'm there. I'm
1:51:22
there right now. So European. With
1:51:26
hunting, uh, was pretty popular with a modern
1:51:29
Western ideology becoming dominant in
1:51:31
a desire to distance the culture for
1:51:33
more primitive cultures of the other continents.
1:51:35
Yeah.
1:51:35
We're kind of going like, uh, we're European.
1:51:38
We're more advanced. So we can't be dealing
1:51:40
with these witches. So they used to go on witch hunts and go like,
1:51:43
Oh, if you're, if you're at that like
1:51:45
pig and rutting, you know,
1:51:47
just women, women in ditches scissoring
1:51:50
each other, like for, for, and calling it witchcraft.
1:51:53
And it's like, Oh no, we don't do that here. That's for
1:51:55
the natives, but the countries that
1:51:57
we've imperialized.
1:51:59
something though that I was raising earlier
1:52:01
is like, yes, there was
1:52:03
like a hunt, like which hunts in
1:52:05
Europe, but it really only took off in England. Yeah.
1:52:09
Yeah. It is.
1:52:09
Like Europe is a broad, a broad
1:52:12
word to say the English, which tries.
1:52:15
Oh yeah. France, France, Germany were pretty
1:52:17
heavy proponents of it, but like places that were heavily
1:52:20
Catholic, like Poland, the
1:52:22
Austro-Hungarian empire, they were all like very Catholic
1:52:24
because the Kings were in it, but places like
1:52:26
France, Holland, Germany, and
1:52:29
England, which were predominantly Protestant
1:52:32
had which hunts and which trials.
1:52:35
So it seems the Protestants hated the witches and the Catholics
1:52:37
were like,
1:52:38
if they're here, they're here. As long as they don't
1:52:40
take the kids off us that we like to fuck. It doesn't really matter.
1:52:44
Do you know? Catholics. Wow.
1:52:47
But like the Catholics, like if the witches are here, they're already here. You
1:52:49
know what I mean? There's no Catholic witch trials.
1:52:52
It is like Catholics to turn a blind eye. It's all Protestant
1:52:54
reformers. Thanks, Bessie. That is very,
1:52:56
yep, yep. Let
1:53:00
them do what they want, just don't take our kids. Yeah.
1:53:03
Yes. I think it's Protestants more so
1:53:05
like England's definitely in this tumultuous
1:53:08
Protestant reformation and the changeover of Kings
1:53:11
and stuff. That's what's really hit the high
1:53:13
point. Oh,
1:53:13
you guys love blaming the Brits for everything, don't you?
1:53:17
It's popular. Yeah. Not
1:53:19
wrong. Not wrong. Just
1:53:21
saying. Yeah, but then what they say that magic was
1:53:23
basically the explanation for the unexplainable
1:53:26
elements in existence. And then
1:53:28
that was replaced by a notion of a
1:53:30
Christian God. And then that was replaced by
1:53:32
science. And each has a vendetta
1:53:34
against the one before, kind of like how I'm
1:53:36
a scientist with a vendetta against Christianity.
1:53:40
And then they had a vendetta against witchcraft.
1:53:43
And maybe your journey through science all
1:53:45
the way out to the cosmos, you'll end up finding
1:53:47
a version of magic that you can then bring
1:53:50
you back full circle.
1:53:50
Full circle. Yeah.
1:53:53
Astrology was actually the right one all along. Turns
1:53:56
out they just weren't as charismatic as
1:53:58
all those other groups that we just mentioned.
1:53:59
That's why they never got a following. What's
1:54:02
your sign, Gordo? I'm a places.
1:54:05
Yeah, I knew it. Fucking tell. You're
1:54:07
about water signs, aren't you? Oh yeah.
1:54:10
Places of fish anyway. I cry all the time. I
1:54:13
don't know. What's the one for
1:54:15
chronic masturbation? Is
1:54:17
that places? I feel like
1:54:19
that'd be... Most. Most
1:54:21
of them. I should. I know I shouldn't
1:54:23
know this. I'm saying I shouldn't know. I fucking shouldn't
1:54:25
know this because I don't believe in this shit anymore. Anymore. We
1:54:28
just didn't know what all the food was. Aquarius means? Aquarius
1:54:30
means. What's the horniest
1:54:32
sign? Aries. Aries. Aries
1:54:35
and tourists are both horns. They're both
1:54:37
bulls. They're both bulls, yeah. A Libra is
1:54:40
the biggest self-lover. Right? Because
1:54:42
they love themselves and that can be taken many ways. They're
1:54:44
just vibing. They're just vibing. With a vibrator. What's
1:54:47
Ailish? With a vibrator. I'm a Leo.
1:54:50
I'm a fire sign. Oh. I'll
1:54:52
set you out. I don't know what Ailish means.
1:54:55
I just know that I'm the same. I
1:54:58
just know that I'm the same as 700 million
1:55:00
other people out there. Yeah.
1:55:02
Yeah. Bill Cosby and I have the same birthday. Do
1:55:04
you? Yeah, Bill Cosby and I. I bet,
1:55:06
see, happy birthday to you
1:55:09
for your birthday.
1:55:11
What do you want for a gift? Not
1:55:13
for you to touch me. Do you want to come
1:55:16
for a drink with me and we
1:55:18
have a little drink and a nap and then we'll
1:55:20
wake
1:55:20
up and we won't tell nothing about nobody. I'm going to bring a sippy
1:55:22
cup to your house. I just thought you'd
1:55:25
drop anything in. That's what I did when I went to
1:55:27
frat parties. I want to invite you
1:55:29
to a new summer camp
1:55:32
for people who love Jesus
1:55:35
starting this summer. And
1:55:37
the invitation is in the mail.
1:55:40
Okay. I hear you like it. I
1:55:43
might like it a little bit. Happy birthday. Thanks.
1:55:46
Thanks, Bill. Thanks, Billie.
1:55:49
Yeah. Vendetta's, oh, common accusations
1:55:52
of witchcraft
1:55:52
are often the most unprovable, as we
1:55:54
will see with the Salem
1:55:56
cases, but it usually consists
1:55:58
of the likes of Diabolus.
1:55:59
assemblies, transforming into
1:56:02
animals, flying through the sky,
1:56:04
possibly on a broomstick, quidditch.
1:56:07
But these were all falsified, falsified
1:56:10
fantasy woven from the Greco Roman
1:56:12
traditions by inquisitors and theologians
1:56:15
to try to categorize the symptoms of
1:56:17
witchcraft. So this all this witchcraft shit
1:56:19
was just put together by white
1:56:21
religious dudes and white wigs and knickers years
1:56:24
after to try and like retcon
1:56:28
what a witch was because it was mentioned as a word
1:56:30
in the Bible. And then we're like, right, when we know what's
1:56:32
a thing, we can't, we
1:56:34
know what's a thing. We know what's in the Bible
1:56:37
and it's not
1:56:38
desirable by God in the Bible. And we said
1:56:40
we should kill them. So
1:56:42
we have a free pass by
1:56:45
Bible lore and words
1:56:47
of the Bible to kill people
1:56:49
who are quote unquote, witches. So what
1:56:52
do we, how
1:56:53
do we, if we
1:56:55
just categorize our enemies as witches, free
1:56:58
pass for death
1:56:59
outcast. And I'm only doing
1:57:01
the Lord's work so that nothing, there's no comeuppance
1:57:03
on me. The comeuppance zero comeuppance
1:57:06
only doing the Lord's work. Yeah. Yeah. I love the
1:57:09
word comeuppance. Yeah.
1:57:12
Like that's what they were doing. It's like some self-righteous
1:57:14
fucking I'm on the right side of history, changing
1:57:17
all the target is always changing to suit the
1:57:19
fucking agenda. Was that my
1:57:21
job? I
1:57:22
was actually thinking of comedy a little
1:57:24
bit. Oh yeah. Take us home. All
1:57:27
right guys. So common accusations
1:57:29
of witchcraft are often the most unprovable
1:57:31
as we will see with the Salem cases, but
1:57:34
it usually consists of the likes of diabolical
1:57:36
assemblies transforming into animals
1:57:39
flying through the sky, possibly on a broomstick
1:57:41
like Quidditch cancel
1:57:43
Quidditch, but these
1:57:45
were all a falsified fantasy woven.
1:57:48
We're going to talk about some shit about the broomsticks
1:57:50
and it was going to fucking ruin Harry Potter
1:57:52
for most of the time.
1:57:54
Do you remember Sabrina and the Teenage Witch? They were like, oh, we
1:57:57
use vacuum cleaners now. Yeah. They tried to modernize
1:57:59
the broomstick.
1:57:59
They're like because the vibrations of the vacuum
1:58:02
cleaner works a lot better I wonder
1:58:04
if they use a Roomba. I was gonna say how do they do
1:58:06
with the Roomba? Yeah Yeah, is it
1:58:09
like a hoverboard? They just sit on the ground away for the
1:58:11
room with the scooch into them It's like a magic
1:58:13
carpet like a cast sitting on the room, but that's
1:58:15
exactly like it. They're just like sitting in in
1:58:17
that meditative station But
1:58:22
yeah on a broomstick But
1:58:24
these were all a falsified fantasy woven
1:58:26
from Greco Roman traditions by inquisitors
1:58:28
and theologians to try to categorize the
1:58:31
symptoms of witchcraft
1:58:33
Yeah, these motherfuckers came in and shared a retcon
1:58:35
everything, you know, like they were like Well,
1:58:38
they're we have witches
1:58:41
in the Bible We know what a witch is
1:58:42
how can we fucking shoehorn in
1:58:44
the things that we hate into what that is because then
1:58:47
we have a fucking a blank check to
1:58:50
To kill witches. We just have to like
1:58:52
Find them. Yeah, like it's
1:58:54
a real shady fucking way of again
1:58:57
using a religious text
1:59:00
to your own
1:59:01
nefarious agenda
1:59:04
or Earthbound
1:59:06
like man-made Physical
1:59:09
possibly sexual agendas like
1:59:12
you know if we want to Have more
1:59:14
than one wife. I
1:59:16
I think I think Those
1:59:19
guys called Mormons Mormons. Yeah,
1:59:22
we can just be like yeah, I don't I don't adhere
1:59:24
to the regular Christianity I like
1:59:27
the flavor that gives you like loads
1:59:29
of white You know, it's
1:59:31
either that or whatever the boys in Saudi Arabia
1:59:33
are at those either one or the other
1:59:35
and that's what you said Like the king of England dead. He
1:59:37
was like, I want to divorce my wife So I'm gonna
1:59:39
do my own flavor of Christianity where I
1:59:41
can divorce and then yeah the Mormons were like I want I
1:59:44
don't want one wife. I want I want a 14 year
1:59:46
old wife and
1:59:48
and you know the Jehovah's Witnesses did the same thing
1:59:50
in a way and Scientology
1:59:53
doesn't want to play ball. So they're just like I want
1:59:55
to do it whatever way I want to do it You know what? My
1:59:57
wife gives me any guff. I'll just make her disappear
1:59:59
a number
1:59:59
how many people ask Shelley Miss Scavage
2:00:02
will never be found. So they're building
2:00:04
a loophole. They're building a get out clause.
2:00:07
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And not the one that brings
2:00:09
you presents at
2:00:11
Christmas. So
2:00:13
we see a lot of negative representations
2:00:16
of witchcraft from biblical stuff,
2:00:18
but there's also like
2:00:19
a pretty, I
2:00:21
guess, devout, uh,
2:00:24
adherence to the negative physical
2:00:26
aspects of witches and witchery,
2:00:29
uh, like my groth bag childhood memories there.
2:00:31
I don't know how many people remember that shit, but,
2:00:33
um,
2:00:34
yeah, like there, there are other representations in media, right?
2:00:37
Oh yeah. So some representations of witchcraft
2:00:40
by the likes of Jacob grim, like
2:00:43
the fairy tales, one of the brothers. Yeah.
2:00:45
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And other dramatic
2:00:47
folklore gave us, you know, the typical
2:00:50
wort faced, um, child
2:00:52
eating, bubbling, pot stirring image of
2:00:54
a witch, which we see in Disney movies and Halloween
2:00:56
and
2:00:57
all that. Yeah. It's often seen as like a scary
2:01:00
figure to be, um,
2:01:02
to be feared and to be avoided
2:01:06
when in fact, I think that's propaganda from
2:01:08
a Christian belief
2:01:10
standpoint to push people away from the
2:01:12
natural medicines of
2:01:15
what witchcraft was brought up on, like the herbs
2:01:17
and the 11 herbs and spices in
2:01:19
the magic recipe.
2:01:22
And, um,
2:01:23
to push people away from like the knowledge
2:01:26
before Christianity came and took it all and put
2:01:28
it in the hands of men in dresses
2:01:30
or whatever. Yeah. And not those types
2:01:32
of men in dresses. So look at there
2:01:35
are more than just Salem on the books. This
2:01:38
is not a, this is not a, an
2:01:40
original, uh, composition of
2:01:42
religious oppression. There have been other ones, one
2:01:45
other one, it kind of in and around the area with
2:01:47
the same flavor, the same notes, the same tones,
2:01:50
same talents, uh, was
2:01:52
the Connecticut witch trials and English.
2:01:53
Would you be able to tell us a little bit about
2:01:56
the, uh, the prequel episodes?
2:02:00
This is like lightning struck twice guys
2:02:02
and you know, it was go hard to go home. So yeah,
2:02:04
the Salem trials weren't even the first of their kind. There
2:02:07
was executions and events of Assyria in Europe.
2:02:09
It is hysteria. It was mania and
2:02:11
hysteria. And you
2:02:12
know what's conti about hysteria? That
2:02:14
it's a word that's created around
2:02:17
having a uterus.
2:02:18
Because what, what in
2:02:21
the woman's inability to control her emotions
2:02:23
because of her having
2:02:25
a uterus, like hysteria, hysterectomy. Oh, that's
2:02:28
what that means. The term hysteria comes
2:02:30
from a woman's inability to control
2:02:32
herself. Oh
2:02:33
my god. Wasn't it just because,
2:02:35
yeah, they thought like the uterus was
2:02:38
out of whack or something. The vibrations were crazy. Yeah.
2:02:41
The moon was just pulling your ovaries out of the wrong way. But really
2:02:43
it was just like you're a woman,
2:02:45
you have no rights, you're treated like shit, you're treated like
2:02:48
property. And then, you know, so you get
2:02:50
a little depressed from it naturally and
2:02:52
you go fucking crazy. Yeah.
2:02:53
That was taken over
2:02:56
by religion. That was taken over by science.
2:02:58
Yeah. So like magic was the witches
2:03:00
and whoa. And then religion was like, oh,
2:03:03
you're sluts according to the Bible. And
2:03:05
the science is like, it's actually your ovaries
2:03:07
and your uterus that are causing you to be a cunt. And
2:03:10
I hate you because of it. Do
2:03:12
you know what I mean? Yeah. I
2:03:15
was telling this to Claire earlier on and she's
2:03:17
like,
2:03:17
that's gotta go in the show. You
2:03:20
know, years ago when a woman is having
2:03:22
a hysterical fish. She's like, you
2:03:25
never had with the children and you're fucking knowing
2:03:27
this thing. And I'm here all day in the house and you go home and
2:03:29
you're swanning and you're trying to call me. I'm
2:03:31
supposed to want to make your fucking maid and he come in and
2:03:33
you don't even say a lot to the children and you go into your fucking
2:03:35
smoking
2:03:35
room and you're smoking your pipe and sitting here. You
2:03:37
don't even know what the fuck is it? The
2:03:39
husband in the, at the
2:03:42
turn of the century would ring the doctor
2:03:44
and say, oh, hello
2:03:48
doctor. Yes. Yes.
2:03:52
My wife is having an hysterical fit. Mm
2:03:54
hmm. Yes. The
2:03:56
jacket and pipe spill. Yes. Yes.
2:03:59
Mm hmm. Okay, can I book her in for three o'clock tomorrow?
2:04:02
Thank you, doctor. And
2:04:04
his wife would have an appointment to go into
2:04:06
the doctor's office. Yeah. And be put
2:04:09
up on a vibrating
2:04:11
saddle. Yeah. That she would be made
2:04:13
to sit on,
2:04:14
not dissimilar to the modern
2:04:16
day Sibian saddle
2:04:19
riding vagina vibrator that you see
2:04:21
in these pornographic films
2:04:24
and that she would be forcefully
2:04:26
brought to orgasm in order to
2:04:28
cure her hysteria.
2:04:31
There are also other electric
2:04:34
men. Who came up with this? Yeah. And
2:04:36
who had the charisma
2:04:38
to get it? Like, not only, you know,
2:04:40
it wasn't the first of its kind or like turn
2:04:42
of the century medicine. It was literally like they
2:04:45
must, this is well known at
2:04:47
the time. And that's what they were going to do. Like how charismatic
2:04:49
to have to be to get away with that and just be like, that's us.
2:04:52
This is the cure. This is it.
2:04:54
Well, in a time when I guess, um, sexual
2:04:57
gratification for women wasn't top
2:04:59
priority for the working Englishman,
2:05:01
how, uh, is
2:05:05
it maybe a carrot and a stick type of a situation
2:05:07
where a woman would maybe
2:05:08
possibly pretend to become hysterical.
2:05:11
So she gets a spin in the doctor's office. Oh
2:05:13
yeah. She gets to go in and have the old electrodes
2:05:16
because they had a range of different kinds
2:05:18
of vaginal and clitoral stimulations. Uh,
2:05:21
you know, the electric rods, the electric ejaculators
2:05:24
you have for animals and stuff like that. So they kind of re,
2:05:26
uh, recombobulated
2:05:28
the technology for that for vibrate.
2:05:30
And you basically lie up and you'd be put into stirrups
2:05:33
and the doctor just go at you until you were, uh, finished
2:05:37
and, uh, and send you back with a
2:05:39
pat in the arse back to your husband. Fully
2:05:42
orgasms and, uh, uh, non-hysterical.
2:05:45
But then like women were diagnosed with melancholia
2:05:47
because again, it was just such a broad term
2:05:49
for having a bit of the
2:05:52
bluesies. Yeah. Yeah. And
2:05:54
the cure for that was, uh, again, uh,
2:05:57
clitoral stimulation. Uh, we just have to
2:05:59
make you. have orgasm so you're not so
2:06:01
sad. So if you're,
2:06:04
if you're mad or sad, possibly bad
2:06:06
as well. I don't know. Um,
2:06:08
did you get sent to the doctor and you're forcefully
2:06:10
made to come? Uh,
2:06:13
I guess in England, they probably got that on the NHS
2:06:16
as well. I suppose you got a ring for
2:06:18
free. So it's great. Oh really? Was that you could actually
2:06:20
go back in the day in England
2:06:23
and, uh, have a doctor, you know,
2:06:25
uh, flick your bean and it's
2:06:27
free of charge. Yeah. The doctors
2:06:29
are basically that is a medical
2:06:32
term. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm sure it was turned
2:06:34
into like a lot of women were just like, I think I'm coming down
2:06:36
with a bit of a touch of hysteria. Is
2:06:38
there any chance of, you know, like just
2:06:40
some hot doctor somewhere in like Yorkshire
2:06:42
who's just like fucking cues
2:06:44
out the door, like Soviet's cue and up for toilet roll
2:06:47
and bread at
2:06:47
the board of directors
2:06:49
are like, how come our gynecology department is doing really well?
2:06:53
We got to invent, we built on another wing,
2:06:55
another flap, another flap
2:06:57
to the, to the hospital, to the hospital.
2:07:00
Well, when so we're talking
2:07:02
about like, so it wasn't just Salem,
2:07:04
it was Connecticut all over. It was across
2:07:07
Europe from like 1300 and even in America
2:07:09
where they're like mass hysteria events and
2:07:12
Connecticut Gordo. I'm only thinking of the last thing
2:07:14
that you just said, uh, which
2:07:17
is for prosecuted under what was known as the blue laws
2:07:19
where there was no, this is, this is gas. No
2:07:21
actual harm needed to be
2:07:24
found to prosecute those
2:07:27
that were outlawed in 1662
2:07:29
because like, well,
2:07:31
those laws were outlawed in 1662 because like, okay,
2:07:33
we need to have evidence, but it was just a finger
2:07:35
pointing game. No evidence. Like you're a
2:07:38
witch.
2:07:41
Yes. Yes. How do you know? Cause
2:07:43
I saw her flying
2:07:45
on Tuesday.
2:07:46
Okay. She's a witch and John, I'm not even
2:07:48
going to question it. Boom. Yeah. What
2:07:51
are we going to say? Betsy? I was going to say, sorry, when
2:07:53
you're saying blue laws, I just, I'm just, we're just,
2:07:55
what were we talking about? I just immediately thought of blue,
2:07:57
blue balls. These
2:08:00
women have in common weeks, they're witches.
2:08:02
But execute them. In the first segment of this,
2:08:05
we were talking about like, it
2:08:07
wasn't just religious. Like it was also the legal
2:08:10
system got a facelift after the same
2:08:12
image. It had to because
2:08:14
literally this was kind of
2:08:17
supporting the fact that you didn't even have any evidence.
2:08:19
You didn't even have eyewitnesses. Hence
2:08:22
the term witch hunt. Just like, it
2:08:24
was you. And the
2:08:26
accusation is enough. Accusation is
2:08:28
enough. Common culture, like in
2:08:30
our pop culture now we have the
2:08:33
accusation is enough. A tweet
2:08:35
can ruin a career. You know,
2:08:37
a baseless accusation.
2:08:39
To be honest, without getting deeply into
2:08:42
it, nobody's going to accuse anyone of such a heinous
2:08:44
crime as like sexual assault or anything like that. Frick
2:08:46
shits and giggles. The ramifications
2:08:49
and the backlash for the accusers, whether they're accused, are
2:08:52
sometimes equal if not more detrimental.
2:08:55
There's all sorts of, you know, social ramifications
2:08:58
and social consequences for that sort of thing. But
2:09:01
these kind of witch hunts and these kind of finger pointings
2:09:03
delegitimize
2:09:05
the genuine cases of corruption,
2:09:07
of illegalities. You're
2:09:10
looking at something that
2:09:11
only just transpired recently. The
2:09:14
Hunter Biden laptop thing that's happened, that's
2:09:16
coming out now and CNN have had to be like, Mia
2:09:19
Culpea. Yeah, we were totally wrong about that. But
2:09:21
for two years and through an election that
2:09:25
could have totally been swayed the other way
2:09:27
if we had been allowed to report on it truthfully, that
2:09:30
the Hunter Biden laptop scandal we said was fake.
2:09:32
All through Biden's election
2:09:35
campaign, tons of 100% true.
2:09:38
And actually might be part of the reason
2:09:40
why the Ukraine is being invaded by Russia
2:09:42
at the moment. Like it's so deeply, crazily
2:09:46
conspiratorially linked.
2:09:48
So at the time it was called witch hunt. At the
2:09:50
time it was called like baseless finger pointing.
2:09:53
At the time was, you know, so people
2:09:55
could be coerced into a guilty plea. That
2:09:57
was the other thing as well. Yeah. it.
2:10:00
Yeah. So, um, so the zero
2:10:04
physical evidence from the blue laws, like you said, it had to
2:10:08
be reformed. We're talking about 17th century
2:10:10
England, 17th century America here. Like
2:10:13
colonials trying to set
2:10:15
a footing in the new world with a very
2:10:17
deeply religious and,
2:10:20
and like puritanical in the, in the most conservative
2:10:22
sense, uh, set of social,
2:10:25
social decorum, they're like, yeah, you're
2:10:28
in league with the devil. And it was such a
2:10:30
bad thing to be that
2:10:32
it was immediately prosecutable. Like that's
2:10:34
crazy. Yeah. And like many believe that
2:10:36
these colonial witch trials were the colonialists
2:10:39
way of blowing off some steam after settling their
2:10:41
hard life, fighting natives
2:10:43
and generally just not having
2:10:46
the best time. Yeah. Fucking
2:10:48
hobby. Yeah. Like what else
2:10:49
do you have to do? It's colonial fucking, you
2:10:55
know, Connecticut. Yeah. They, they
2:10:57
like the, you know, technology has come on
2:10:59
a million times. They're not having
2:11:01
recreational sex. That's for fucking sure. And then
2:11:04
one of the main,
2:11:08
uh, one of the main figures in
2:11:10
Connecticut was a girl called Alice Young. She was the first
2:11:12
ever witch executed by hanging in
2:11:14
may 1647. So Gordo, I was saying
2:11:17
earlier that, you know, there was actually nobody
2:11:19
burned at the stake in the Salem witch trials.
2:11:22
Now understand we're talking about Connecticut here, but
2:11:24
I thought there would have been burned to the stake in
2:11:26
Europe
2:11:27
in the books that I was reading. There's one
2:11:29
by a guy called Henry Kerr
2:11:31
Giskirk
2:11:33
called a European, which is 1300 to 1500 and examination
2:11:36
of which culture and
2:11:41
witchcraft. And it was printed 2009.
2:11:45
So according to that book, I can
2:11:47
be fact check. Like don't, don't, you know, get at
2:11:49
me if you have any extra information, but
2:11:51
I don't think burning at the stake was a thing
2:11:54
that they did to witches. Now they did do it to Joan
2:11:56
of Arc. They
2:11:57
did do it to a couple of historical figures. And I think
2:11:59
the.
2:11:59
image of that or the, um,
2:12:02
it was hopefully enough to put the witches
2:12:04
off. Maybe the
2:12:06
image of, of the person being burned at the stake
2:12:09
for being a heretic could
2:12:11
possibly have been transposed onto
2:12:13
witchcraft and the sale and witch trials and people
2:12:15
would be like, well, they were executed and you have in your head,
2:12:17
whether a heretic, uh,
2:12:20
I mean, you put two and two together and
2:12:22
get a burn in which
2:12:25
in this book to 1300, 1500 European witches, the first few that were accused
2:12:31
and convicted were burned at the stake.
2:12:35
But when you're, I don't know, ladies and gentlemen of,
2:12:37
of the listening public, uh,
2:12:40
I don't know if you know what happens when you're burned at the state, but you
2:12:43
don't actually burn the fire actually doesn't even
2:12:46
get to you before you're unconscious because that
2:12:48
when, when the fire is lit, it sucks all
2:12:50
the oxygen from around where the person is tied
2:12:53
to the stake. So you'll go unconscious very, very
2:12:55
quickly in a very, very deep black, like,
2:12:58
you know, uh, almost, uh, sleep. Yeah.
2:13:01
What's that? What's the anesthetic, uh,
2:13:04
unconsciousness where you don't feel anything. And
2:13:07
by the time the flames get to your skin, like you're
2:13:09
fucking
2:13:10
suffocated. So like, in fact,
2:13:12
in the book, they said to don't burn witches because it's,
2:13:15
uh, not painful enough. Wow.
2:13:18
Burning them is not painful enough. So hanging was
2:13:20
the preferred methods. I
2:13:22
actually remember, it's funny that you say that,
2:13:24
that they weren't actually burned because I remember
2:13:26
reading in Harry Potter, uh, you
2:13:29
know, and in Harry Potter, they were saying about
2:13:31
like the witch trials and everything. And
2:13:34
that apparently in the Harry Potter universe,
2:13:36
when like the witch trials
2:13:38
were going on, what they would do is like, if you
2:13:40
were actually a witch, they would just take a potion
2:13:42
so that the flames would just feel like they were
2:13:45
tickling you and then, yeah,
2:13:47
some, so then some. Witches and
2:13:49
wizards enjoyed the sensation
2:13:51
so much that they would purposefully just be like,
2:13:53
you guys caught me, I'm a witch. And then, you know, purposely
2:13:55
let themselves get, uh, get
2:13:58
burned.
2:13:59
by the pyro. That's
2:14:02
what JK Rowling has as she wrote
2:14:04
about it. Yeah, also there
2:14:06
was connotations with Hell and the Devil. So it's
2:14:08
like, what's the point in trying to kill
2:14:11
a witch with an element that she is in
2:14:13
league with? Yeah. So it's
2:14:15
that kind of stuff, which is why they drowned
2:14:17
a lot of them using like ducking stools and stuff
2:14:19
like that. So we're not going to talk about the Pendle witches
2:14:21
in this one, but the witches of Pendle Hill was
2:14:25
the place that was made famous, the ducking stool,
2:14:27
which is a big longstick
2:14:30
on a little fulcrum and
2:14:31
was seated at the end of it. And they would
2:14:33
put the witch, tie the witch to the end of the seat, like a
2:14:35
little or, and like bend it down
2:14:38
and let it drop into the lake. And they'd leave
2:14:40
it there for like a minute and then pull it back up.
2:14:42
And if the woman was still alive,
2:14:45
then she was a witch because she was able to enchant herself before
2:14:47
she went in and not drown. And if she was dead,
2:14:49
it proved that she was innocent and they would declare
2:14:51
her innocent in her, in
2:14:53
like posthumously declare her innocent
2:14:56
to be an witch. Exactly what I mean. It's
2:14:58
this kind of attitude of like, do you know
2:15:00
what we're doing? We're doing the God's work,
2:15:02
you know? And like, look, she's innocent.
2:15:05
She died. You're like, wait a minute.
2:15:07
Did you not murder her then? No, no, no.
2:15:10
That's part of the whole, that's part of the whole thing.
2:15:12
You passed the test, you know? Well,
2:15:14
it's kind of like what they would say with vampires, like, oh,
2:15:17
if you, if you kill a vampire by stabbing
2:15:19
them
2:15:20
with a wooden stake. It's like, well,
2:15:22
doesn't that kill everybody? Like how
2:15:25
do you tell the difference? Yeah. Yeah.
2:15:28
If they, if they stake through the heart. Yeah. Stake
2:15:31
through the heart. That kills everybody. Yeah.
2:15:34
Yeah. So they scream and then go turn into
2:15:36
a bat, like, uh, um, you're like in the last
2:15:38
bodies or whatever, you know, depends
2:15:39
on which book you're reading. Yeah. Depends
2:15:42
on your, they just wake up and like suck your dick or something
2:15:44
like that. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It's
2:15:47
hot. Now, going back on to Alice Young,
2:15:50
who was the first ever to be executed by
2:15:52
hanging, her husband had died, apparently from
2:15:54
some type of epidemic that struck their
2:15:56
town of Windsor and she was on the hook for
2:15:58
killing him with witchcraft.
2:15:59
accused because
2:16:02
she had no sons and only one daughter.
2:16:04
And it was presumed she killed her husband to get the
2:16:06
family inheritance. So wait, wait, wait, what
2:16:08
does witches have to do with having money?
2:16:11
No, no, oh, no. So I
2:16:14
was like, I was like, are witches only giving
2:16:16
birth to girls? The folk game. I
2:16:19
was like, oh, which is only have girls. OK, sorry.
2:16:21
Go on. Yeah. So
2:16:24
they only have girls and they had like no. I
2:16:26
think because sons were kind of seen as a hierarchy,
2:16:28
the family because they brought on the family name, whereas women were
2:16:30
only like part of the family to marry
2:16:33
into and get dowries. So there
2:16:35
was
2:16:35
already that were a wealth to be passed on. There
2:16:37
you go. Well, I wouldn't say they did not think
2:16:39
of them as well. They thought of them as property. They
2:16:42
would get wealth in exchange. Oh, yeah,
2:16:44
yeah, that's how you do that. Sorry. I'm
2:16:46
not an accountant. But
2:16:49
what can I get? Can I declare it? Can I declare a
2:16:51
tax tax free and go against my against
2:16:53
my wife? Is she how many kids
2:16:55
did you have? How many kids this is pagan
2:16:58
bookkeeping land, pagan bookkeeping. You
2:17:00
can only get your tax back on sons. I'm so sorry.
2:17:03
Depreciate the value of her. And she
2:17:05
gets she's been used. Yeah, she gets older.
2:17:07
She loses her value. Yeah. House or boat.
2:17:09
The trades come off the tires. No, it's just
2:17:12
it's just sorry. That's terrible, isn't it? That's
2:17:14
gas. It's just
2:17:16
in this particular Alice Young story, I think
2:17:19
the way I read it,
2:17:20
while investigating it was that Alice,
2:17:24
her husband died and because
2:17:26
she had no sons that the wealth would go to her
2:17:28
because there was no son to have inherited the wealth.
2:17:32
So I think there's a bunch of people who saw a woman,
2:17:34
a widow who
2:17:35
was about to get a bunch of money. And
2:17:38
they went, mmm, we
2:17:40
can't be having that now. That doesn't say well with me.
2:17:42
She's a witch. Can't let a woman have power.
2:17:44
No. Yeah. So we can't let that woman have
2:17:46
her husband's estate. She's
2:17:49
a witch. On the back of no evidence, no
2:17:51
like what
2:17:53
does it like, coerce them into a guilty
2:17:55
plea? They it was just smooth sailing for the
2:17:57
accusers.
2:17:57
Yeah, to just acquire her
2:17:59
wealth. It was you. Yeah. Yeah. Like
2:18:02
it's robbery around witchcraft.
2:18:05
Like it's fucking bananas. And then she had
2:18:07
a daughter. She had a daughter also called Alice,
2:18:09
uh, and who was accused of witchcraft
2:18:12
in 1692 in Springfield, Massachusetts. Another
2:18:14
Connecticut witch was the first to be
2:18:16
executed from a confession of witchcraft. So
2:18:19
we now move over to Mary Johnson.
2:18:20
But her daughter Alice was the one who inherited
2:18:23
the thing after her motor died. So she had
2:18:25
weathered the storm of her father's debt and
2:18:28
was also her mother's debt. Yeah.
2:18:30
I'm had inherited the estate
2:18:33
and then moved to Springfield to get away from, like,
2:18:35
nah, which cops go and get you bitch. Yeah,
2:18:37
of course. Because it was like, Oh, senior, if you know, we
2:18:39
won't give senior Alice the money. We can't let junior
2:18:41
Alice get the money either. So you're a witch to your
2:18:44
rich bitch, literal witch hunt, rich
2:18:47
bitch, which it is mad. And
2:18:49
it's, it's, but that's all happened, you
2:18:51
know? And then Mary Johnson
2:18:53
is another figurehead who confessed under extreme
2:18:56
duress, which was torture by whipping and
2:18:58
fully described her crimes, including using
2:19:01
in invocation to get her household chores
2:19:04
done. She is. So she was a house servant and kept a
2:19:06
beautiful home and they just couldn't get over it.
2:19:08
She was bewitched and she was confessed
2:19:10
to familiarity with the devil.
2:19:12
Yeah. She was like, like, like
2:19:14
this thing on her nose and all the housework was
2:19:16
done. They're like, how'd you clean that floor so fast?
2:19:19
I'm a good and diligent worker.
2:19:21
No, you're a witch. You're a witch. Nobody
2:19:24
gets their floors. That's quick, clean. Still
2:19:26
a bank gets back in the cabin.
2:19:29
I'm Barry Scott and you're a witch. Oh
2:19:34
geez. Um, or what is it? She,
2:19:36
uh, probably read the Grimes brothers is
2:19:39
like, what is this? It's no white and all her,
2:19:41
uh, farm yard friends clean
2:19:43
the gaff for her and stuff. And she's like, yeah,
2:19:46
that's,
2:19:46
it's
2:19:50
just fucked up though. Dude, that you can't even do
2:19:52
a good job and not be his being a
2:19:54
witch. This is
2:19:56
a plane three acts the next bit. Like now, like
2:19:58
during her torture, she was pregnant.
2:19:59
And she didn't
2:20:02
know who the father was. And
2:20:04
maybe there was some suspicion that the master of the house
2:20:06
was the father who happened to be the accuser, by the
2:20:09
way. So he was, that to
2:20:11
me reads a bit of subtext of someone covering their tracks.
2:20:13
Oh, 100%. Yeah. She
2:20:15
was, she was during her torture. She
2:20:17
I guess inadvertently confessed to consorting
2:20:20
with many men is the term that they use in the documents
2:20:23
and even the murder of a child. So
2:20:25
she had killed a child in the households, I
2:20:28
guess, uh,
2:20:30
in the family of the house open, not someone
2:20:32
belonging to the family, but like of the extended staff
2:20:35
members. She killed and consorted
2:20:37
with many men. So she was just like, yeah,
2:20:39
I'm a slag. I'm a slag. I killed kids. I'm
2:20:41
a wippener. And then she's like, I'm a
2:20:43
witch. And finally, like, yes, we got it.
2:20:45
That was the thing. Fidelity was also like, what
2:20:47
is it? Evidence like a very, like
2:20:50
to, uh, persecute
2:20:52
witches. Yeah. So you're saying
2:20:55
that she was like
2:20:56
getting whipped and being like, I'm a
2:20:58
slut. I mean, that just sounds like a Friday
2:21:00
night to me. I don't know
2:21:02
what's wrong with that. Nothing wrong with that.
2:21:06
We're not gonna, we're not gonna shame here. Yeah,
2:21:09
we're not gonna shame here.
2:21:11
This, this, this, the thing that she, she was,
2:21:13
she was pregnant. Yeah. Had admitted
2:21:15
to consorting with many men, been whipped a bits
2:21:18
and admitted to a murder
2:21:21
of a child. And none of those things were important.
2:21:24
It was the bit where she said, I'm a witch. And
2:21:26
I love the devil. Yeah. They were
2:21:28
like, we got it. I prayed to the devil and he helped me do my
2:21:30
housework. You're going to, you're dying. You're going to be killed
2:21:33
for that. That's what she got killed for.
2:21:34
They held off the execution and until
2:21:37
she gave birth and then it was immediately hanged in
2:21:39
June, 1650. And then her
2:21:41
son was sold to the prison keeper, Nathaniel
2:21:43
rescue, who paid 15 pounds to take care
2:21:45
of him. And the child was indentured
2:21:48
servant for him until the age of 21.
2:21:50
And indentured servant is a fancy term for slave.
2:21:53
He couldn't leave. He was basically
2:21:56
the property of your man for, for
2:21:58
until he was 21 from birth.
2:21:59
And being accused as a witch is a ripple
2:22:02
through the family. Like the family was
2:22:04
shamed. They were like really put down
2:22:06
in terms of their status in the community afterwards.
2:22:09
Because you had been related, not
2:22:11
like also associated, because you've related to
2:22:13
a witch. So they were also outcasts
2:22:16
and subject to, we'll see in like
2:22:18
later stages, subject to accused
2:22:22
themselves in your blood. Was just
2:22:24
a congenital accusations, like
2:22:27
inherited witch craftery.
2:22:29
Yeah. Oh yeah. Or
2:22:31
have you seen practical magic? I
2:22:33
haven't. Is that a Sandra Bullock movie? With
2:22:35
Nicole Kidman. I do enjoy the movies of Sandra
2:22:38
Bullock, Elisha, I have to admit.
2:22:39
Oh, lads, I should have been on the course
2:22:41
material now. It's pretty good. Yeah. It's
2:22:44
a great show. Here was me away reading fucking academic
2:22:46
texts on witchcraft. This
2:22:48
is too deep for this show, but I have it all banked for another
2:22:50
show on witchcraft. And is there more than welcome
2:22:52
to come back? Am I lying? Yeah, fucking
2:22:55
mad. Practical magic? I've seen
2:22:57
bedazzled. Bedazzled, yeah. With
2:23:00
Elizabeth Hurley. Pocus
2:23:01
Pocus. Pocus Pocus. Pocus Pocus. Pocus
2:23:04
Pocus. Blair Witch Project was one of my favorite all time movies.
2:23:06
And I went to the cinema to see that. And
2:23:08
it was at the time when the internet wasn't so ubiquitous.
2:23:11
So when you went to see it and it says like, this is best than true
2:23:13
story. And then at the end of the movie, you're like,
2:23:15
ahh, I'm afraid to
2:23:17
leave your seat is wet from urine. Yeah,
2:23:19
everyone thought it was real for ages. Like until
2:23:22
it was, I think it was on some TV show or something, somebody
2:23:24
spoil it. Yeah. We all thought like, is
2:23:26
that fucking real? Like it was a cinematic
2:23:28
phenomenon. And only could have happened
2:23:30
at the time, like 98 in the
2:23:33
cinema, like amazing.
2:23:35
You know, but Blair Witch was like, that
2:23:39
was our witches. Like, Pocus
2:23:41
Pocus sure was cool. Yeah. But
2:23:43
like the way that that woman was like a scary,
2:23:47
you know, like a force
2:23:49
majeure, like something like the darkness, something that's
2:23:51
like your pestering, like
2:23:54
very foreboding,
2:23:56
you know, like leaving rocks outside the tent and
2:23:58
stuff like that. Like that was the... That
2:24:00
was the thing we had. And as I grew up, like I
2:24:02
said, as I got older, I realized like, no,
2:24:04
it's just like homeopaths and fucking
2:24:06
herbalists and shit. Or like women who liked to
2:24:09
have one sexual partner
2:24:12
in their lifetime from the age of 14. The
2:24:16
fucking buyer got lowered real quick as
2:24:19
soon as I started realizing how the world worked. And
2:24:22
yeah,
2:24:23
it's bonkers. But the definitions
2:24:25
then, as we talked earlier on, the definitions
2:24:28
have been in which biblically were
2:24:30
quite vague. And like we said,
2:24:32
cis white men, am I right
2:24:37
girls? Cis white men came in and fucking used
2:24:41
their own sensibilities to enact
2:24:44
the words of the Bible as a weapon
2:24:46
with very vague terms. And then they specified
2:24:48
the terms according to their agenda and started
2:24:50
like just poking everybody and hanging bitches.
2:24:53
And not poking in a fun way. Not in the fun
2:24:55
way. Yeah.
2:24:57
The patriarch had a much stronger grasp of
2:25:00
power. Like they, it still
2:25:02
exists today, but definitely back then, like the
2:25:05
fact that women were seen as property and that men were
2:25:07
not seen as property, men were seen like heads
2:25:09
of the house and it was like a
2:25:11
blessing to have a son. Like
2:25:14
they were getting away with, in every
2:25:16
sense, the word murder.
2:25:18
I will
2:25:20
counter that claim, agreeing
2:25:24
for the most part, but in saying no
2:25:26
more than today.
2:25:28
I don't like the blanketed
2:25:31
term, the patriarchy, because I
2:25:33
think it's reductive. Okay. And
2:25:36
Shillanche McCarty. I
2:25:38
say that
2:25:41
the patriarchy while being probably
2:25:43
white and probably men,
2:25:46
they are a, an oligarchical
2:25:49
control community that
2:25:52
are probably white and probably men, but
2:25:54
they are just, excuse me, they
2:25:56
are just as much
2:25:59
in control. over the men of the world
2:26:03
of the commoners
2:26:04
in the era of the women. Now I do know if
2:26:06
you were a man
2:26:08
back in the Dizzy back
2:26:10
in the 17c
2:26:13
yeah probably life was less like
2:26:16
you know rapey it was probably less
2:26:18
like accusatory of being a witchy like
2:26:22
the pitfalls of being a man then are
2:26:25
probably not as
2:26:27
bad as of being a woman then but think
2:26:30
of the shit that men had to do then times working
2:26:33
in mines you're working in jobs you're working in factories
2:26:35
you were working it like it was the industrial age the
2:26:37
industrial revolution was happening you were working crazy
2:26:40
jobs your life expectancy was like 40 and
2:26:42
the
2:26:42
health implications like go with that as well
2:26:44
yeah and then of course like there was no
2:26:46
such thing as like birth control so you were hopping
2:26:49
jizz into your misses and she was belching out
2:26:51
pop litters of pops so obviously
2:26:53
her fucking her life expectancy
2:26:56
was drastically reduced the more kids she had the
2:26:58
more years were coming off of her life everything was just
2:27:00
hard for everybody yeah it's not like painting
2:27:02
I could just play virtue of having a dick and balls
2:27:05
that life was sweet the 17th century it
2:27:07
was probably shitter than at any other
2:27:09
point in history because at least before that motherfuckers
2:27:12
were just like eating berries and nuts and shit like I'm walking
2:27:14
around her dick saying now it was like industrialized
2:27:17
it was like work you have to be in a certain place
2:27:19
at a certain time you had the factory whistle you
2:27:21
have you know these kind of things were happening and
2:27:24
as well as like religious persecution and
2:27:27
not to mention wars women were fighting
2:27:29
wars men are fighting wars
2:27:31
were they fighting first like you know
2:27:34
white man who were in charge white fucking
2:27:36
millionaire yes but patriarchy
2:27:39
doesn't extend past the
2:27:41
top 1% of the top 1% of the top 1% just
2:27:43
so happens to be men
2:27:46
but living as a man in those times sure you wouldn't
2:27:48
get
2:27:50
accused being a witch but you'd have to go
2:27:52
to work every day and you don't even your 40 because
2:27:54
you're fucked
2:27:55
and if you got sick at any point
2:27:58
between the ages of 15 when started
2:28:00
your full-time work or probably earlier, 13, you're
2:28:03
out full-time work. Like my dad went
2:28:05
out to full-time work at 14 in like the
2:28:07
fifties.
2:28:09
Full-time quit school, like not fully
2:28:11
educated at the end of it. Right. So like you're
2:28:13
probably going out of 13, 14 and 17th century out to labor. Um,
2:28:18
possibly not leaving, living at home. You're living in a workhouse
2:28:21
and going to and from whatever place they need
2:28:23
you to be
2:28:23
in. And these conditions as well. So it's like
2:28:25
child abuse until you're a grown adult. So
2:28:27
if you're sick anytime between 13 and 40 of
2:28:30
any kind of malady or illness, you're going to
2:28:32
die. That's like sweet
2:28:35
release of death. Yeah. Yeah. You don't have to fucking
2:28:37
lay it. So like when you say the patriarchy,
2:28:40
I know what you mean, but in reality,
2:28:42
you're like,
2:28:42
there's so much more. It's an iceberg. It's a nice
2:28:45
woman, but it's also just a shit to be a man.
2:28:47
Yeah. A whole lot of mad other ways. It's not
2:28:49
about gender. It's about class.
2:28:52
And it's a class thing. Like the patriarchy is a class
2:28:54
thing and it's not a gender thing. That was something that we
2:28:56
mentioned. I apologize for skipping
2:28:58
over to Salem, but that those
2:29:01
who were accused were in a well
2:29:03
to do area, higher level. And
2:29:05
then the accusers were in a working lower
2:29:08
class accusing those who were
2:29:10
in a more privileged position than them. There was a bit of a
2:29:12
demographic.
2:29:13
What we call that in today's parlance
2:29:16
would be cultural Marxism, where
2:29:18
it's like a class, like class
2:29:20
Bolshevism based on
2:29:22
economic status or cultural status
2:29:25
rather than on
2:29:27
economics. So
2:29:29
like Marxism is best rooted in economics, which
2:29:32
obviously born out over time, doesn't,
2:29:35
doesn't work. Sorry. Communism
2:29:37
has never worked. But like the
2:29:39
cultural aspect of it is like, where my culture
2:29:42
is, I
2:29:43
get loads of victim points and you don't have
2:29:45
any. So I get to, you know,
2:29:47
decide, I get to, I get to accuse you
2:29:49
because I'm a victim status, but also I get
2:29:52
the privilege benefits of being unaccusable
2:29:54
myself and all this kind of stuff. So yeah,
2:29:56
it's, it echoes a lot of the modern stuff, but
2:29:58
just like that.
2:29:59
patriarchy
2:30:01
when you're talking about 17th century people,
2:30:04
it doesn't like, it's hard to
2:30:06
be the man anytime and it's not,
2:30:08
doesn't take away from how hard it was to be
2:30:10
a woman. It is to be a woman. Isn't it amazing
2:30:13
that we just had that healthy discussion? We
2:30:15
can talk about equality. It's
2:30:18
the equality in the fucking misery of life.
2:30:23
Sponsored
2:30:23
by Samaritans. I love your stock. Your
2:30:29
stock thing is like, go kill yourself. I
2:30:31
love it. This episode
2:30:34
is brought to you by. So yeah,
2:30:36
like, yeah,
2:30:39
the Connecticut shit, like it's the same as Salem.
2:30:42
I don't know why it didn't get as famous, probably because it's not
2:30:44
as many bodies.
2:30:45
I think it was like, I think
2:30:47
Salem kind of just took that torch and ran
2:30:50
with this. And it was the trials were continuing
2:30:52
for a whole year.
2:30:53
Yeah. We were up in a trip of figures by the end of
2:30:55
it. Like it was people in jail for a year and all this kind of stuff. But,
2:30:58
um, Connecticut was just as yucky. And
2:31:00
I mean, we did have like pregnant witches killed at Salem
2:31:02
as well. And this kind of stuff is just a
2:31:04
true that in there just to say like Salem
2:31:07
was not a standalone event. It wasn't
2:31:09
like a localized hysteria, like the
2:31:11
dancing disease of some French
2:31:13
town in the 1500s. It was, it was in popular
2:31:15
culture. And then they just like died. They
2:31:19
all started dying of exhaustion
2:31:21
after like 10 days of dancing.
2:31:22
Did not hear about this. What happened? What
2:31:25
was the cause of it? I can't even remember the details. There's some
2:31:27
mad hysteria, some last formation, psychoses
2:31:29
happened in this town and one
2:31:31
person started dancing. And then suddenly all the whole
2:31:34
town just started like dancing, like killing it, like
2:31:36
fucking, you know, I and Appa and
2:31:39
we're dancing for 10 days and they all started dying of like
2:31:41
dehydration and exhaustion and stuff.
2:31:43
And was this like, was this like a mental thing? Were
2:31:46
they, were they, no, I don't know. Something in the water?
2:31:49
Some crazy mystery. Oh wow. But
2:31:51
it was super localized and like they don't,
2:31:53
they've looked through all the kind of, is it, was it
2:31:55
the water? Was it, was it something that the eighth,
2:31:57
was it the hallucinogenic thing? Was it, you know, I
2:31:59
don't think. think the Salem thing was localized. It seems
2:32:01
though, in the, in the lower, that was like, and
2:32:04
the witch trials of Salem, there's
2:32:06
thousands of people killed like this over
2:32:09
continents and countries over centuries.
2:32:12
This is not a one time hit it and quit a thing. Salem
2:32:14
witch trials is just
2:32:16
the tip of a very yucky iceberg.
2:32:18
And you think because we
2:32:21
spoke that Salem personally
2:32:24
said, yep, okay, we take responsibility
2:32:26
Connecticut. It has Connecticut done that.
2:32:29
I couldn't find it, which is probably why it's
2:32:31
called the Salem witch trials because someone actually stood
2:32:33
forward as a government represent representative
2:32:36
and said, we take responsibility for our history.
2:32:38
It's obviously very dark periods.
2:32:40
You're talking about like at the state level of Massachusetts.
2:32:42
Yeah. So maybe that's why
2:32:44
it was coined the Salem witch trials, but you're
2:32:46
right. It's not a standalone. Yeah.
2:32:49
It's happening all over New England,
2:32:51
but yeah, it's bonkers.
2:32:58
So European witches are
2:33:01
where this kind of holding started and, and
2:33:03
during the trials and persecutions of witches
2:33:06
in the 14th to 16th century, that's the 1300s to
2:33:08
the 1500s for the people at the back. For
2:33:12
the cheap seats in the back. You're
2:33:16
not, you're not on Imperial measurements. Nope.
2:33:18
The majority of these cases then were solved by confession
2:33:21
from the accused who were put on our extreme duress through
2:33:23
the likes of torture. We're talking about,
2:33:25
you know, stretched
2:33:28
on the rack,
2:33:29
whipping,
2:33:30
hot irons, not
2:33:32
the sexy kind, not the,
2:33:36
I'm learning so much about you and I'm feeling
2:33:38
over here like God, I haven't lived, you know, I'm
2:33:41
feeling God, I haven't lived on the internet. She's
2:33:47
a fucking enigma wrapped up in a conundrum. There we go.
2:33:49
The ones, like I said, is when you grew up with that religious,
2:33:52
when you grew up with that religious persecution shit
2:33:54
and then you just go the full opposite
2:33:56
direction. Yes, just one time, a
2:33:58
five a can. I love
2:34:00
it. Yeah. Um, so
2:34:03
we are flying on the wall, Betsy to be on
2:34:07
the wall. Uh, so yeah, the, like
2:34:09
we're talking torch proper, like medieval
2:34:11
shit here. Um, I went
2:34:13
to the torture museum in, uh,
2:34:15
as an Amsterdam, went to the torture museum there,
2:34:18
those motherfuckers are creative.
2:34:21
Ooh. Like what, what sort of creative? The
2:34:24
one that fucking Titans might gicker,
2:34:27
right? Uh-huh. The one that really makes
2:34:30
me like, it's already left an impression
2:34:32
on you. Yeah. Yeah. Is this really,
2:34:35
so there's a kind of a, like a hobby horse,
2:34:37
you know, hobby horse. No. Okay.
2:34:39
It's like a, uh, like a horse is saddle. Yeah.
2:34:43
Right. Over, but it's not, it's
2:34:45
not a saddle. It's like a very
2:34:48
sharp kind of a blade. Oh God.
2:34:50
But it's long, but it's long. Okay. Right.
2:34:53
So it's like, it's like, uh, it's like, it's like a wedge
2:34:55
of cheese with the pointy end pointing up,
2:34:58
but the, the, the, the, the
2:35:00
slice of the wedge fat end is
2:35:02
on the ground, like a triangle. Yeah. And the
2:35:04
top end is a very, very
2:35:06
sharp metal shock, either
2:35:08
spike or a blade. And
2:35:10
they put you up on that sitting. No jocks,
2:35:13
no knickers. And they
2:35:15
get your genitals right on the saucy
2:35:17
bit. And then what they do is
2:35:20
they put these chains on your ankles, uh, and
2:35:22
your angles are on either side of this, like quite
2:35:25
wide. So you're kind of like spread, spread
2:35:27
eagles. It's like you're riding a bike,
2:35:29
but the bike is made of nine. Yeah.
2:35:31
Yeah. I'm getting a good, and
2:35:33
they put weights, they put chains on your ankles.
2:35:36
And then gradually over a period of time, they
2:35:39
hook
2:35:40
weights more and more weights onto these, like, uh, you
2:35:43
have a, what would it be called? Like a
2:35:46
calipers or, or kind of clasps
2:35:48
on your ankles. And they just gradually
2:35:50
increase the weight around these things. So your feet are being
2:35:53
pulled down by these big iron
2:35:54
weights. And like gravity does job
2:35:57
on either side of the blade. And you're just like very.
2:36:00
slowly and gradually like,
2:36:06
but for days and days and days until
2:36:08
they
2:36:09
like cut you in
2:36:13
half halfway up your, halfway
2:36:15
up your torso. They slowly
2:36:17
cut you in half over the course of days
2:36:20
through the genitals. Through the genitals,
2:36:22
through adding various weights, like
2:36:25
every few hours that add another weight,
2:36:27
just in case like,
2:36:28
you know, you'd stop the very, very slow
2:36:31
splitting over a blade. Oh
2:36:33
my God. Yeah. That
2:36:36
was one of the ones that really stuck with me. Yeah. Whose
2:36:38
job is that to like come up with these ideas? A
2:36:40
genius.
2:36:41
No, I disagree. I'd
2:36:43
be like, what does
2:36:45
someone just stand there with an apparatus going, Oh, do
2:36:47
you know what we should do?
2:36:49
Yeah. Yeah. Do you know
2:36:51
what we should do? And then they have to have an engineer with a mathematics mind to be
2:36:53
able to develop it. Yeah. And
2:36:56
then it had to do a few tests to make sure that it was the
2:36:58
appropriate amount of pain. So it was over a long
2:37:00
enough period of time to have an impact, but
2:37:02
also not to, not to leave
2:37:04
anyone survive. Like you have to have to,
2:37:06
you wouldn't want to survive that you wouldn't
2:37:08
want to mean it'd be a con to wipe
2:37:10
your ass after that. Like imagine trying to have a shot
2:37:13
after being fucking literally split
2:37:15
up the middle. Like,
2:37:16
wow. Again, like I said, people just needed a
2:37:18
fucking hobby back in the day, right? And
2:37:20
you get put up on, you get put up on that shit now for
2:37:22
like cheating on your cheating
2:37:25
on your husband or, you know,
2:37:27
like you get put up on that shit. Like for fuck all, like
2:37:30
it was a real, like, what'd we get a
2:37:32
who donut? Yeah. It was just, but
2:37:34
again, these were from Dutch Puritans. So
2:37:36
these are the ones that mingled in with the, uh, the
2:37:39
English Protestants and decided to go to the new world
2:37:41
and torture people in a whole new way. Wow.
2:37:44
So like, just say this. Yeah.
2:37:47
It's yeah. That's exactly what it
2:37:49
is. Yeah. The Dutch, I have, I
2:37:51
actually have a video, uh, like a whole mini doc. I
2:37:53
almost replied too quick.
2:37:59
very interesting to me that humans would do that
2:38:02
to other humans.
2:38:02
Cause I can't on see it. I
2:38:05
can paint a picture, but I can't on the stage. You
2:38:08
pay a tenor not to see it. I pay the tenor to see it, but
2:38:11
just to think, oh yeah. I
2:38:14
mean, at least I watch at least just
2:38:16
out of interest. I wouldn't go to the masses
2:38:18
around it like that. Um, so yeah,
2:38:21
the, the, the, the historians
2:38:23
into these cases from the 13 hundreds
2:38:25
to the 1500s can't be confident in defining documents,
2:38:28
uh, that they're stating facts, go
2:38:31
to go facts about witchcraft practices. Uh,
2:38:34
and they can't say for sure that they weren't
2:38:36
falsified from contemporary folklore,
2:38:37
like the things that they say
2:38:39
that the witches did, was that what
2:38:41
they actually did through court documents? Or was
2:38:44
it just like, you know, fairy tales of
2:38:46
scared woods, people and people
2:38:48
living, you know,
2:38:49
for fear, living in fear of like native
2:38:52
Americans, like sacking their village at their
2:38:54
town or, you know, like it's a bunch of
2:38:56
people trying to make shit up. And as we
2:38:58
go through the Salem case,
2:39:00
just making up like bullshit, you
2:39:02
know, and saying it was witchcraft. And
2:39:05
the information about witches was disseminated pretty widely
2:39:07
in
2:39:08
Europe for religious purposes. So
2:39:10
the symptoms of witchcraft were commonly known.
2:39:12
The
2:39:13
documents that we found pretend to these court cases
2:39:15
of accusations or witchcraft were all drawn up after
2:39:18
the cases had concluded.
2:39:20
So whatever anyone made up,
2:39:22
they then rolled it down and said, that's what
2:39:24
witches, so you're just like, it
2:39:27
was like fucking jazz lying.
2:39:29
Yeah. Turn
2:39:33
to a bird. Kids
2:39:36
and stuff like
2:39:38
you've been hunting witches now three years and you're like,
2:39:41
yeah, sure. And you're in a position of power or whatever.
2:39:43
And then it's like, yeah, what does a witch do? And it's like, you
2:39:45
know, that's a really good question, Susan.
2:39:48
And I'm sorry that we have to take a bathroom break. Yeah.
2:39:52
Witch hunting orientation. And
2:39:56
then they returned two years
2:39:59
later going. Susan, do you remember two years you asked
2:40:01
me, you kind of put me on the spot there, but, um,
2:40:03
I have the answer for you. I
2:40:07
remember now what it was. And it's actually been documented
2:40:09
and I can refer to this case.
2:40:11
Do these witch hunters, I wonder, go into
2:40:13
like classes, like improv classes, where
2:40:15
it's just like, okay, we're lying, we're lying. Interpretive
2:40:17
times. Yes. And
2:40:19
okay. So I'd say something that you do the classes, like, uh,
2:40:23
uh, you know, like writing cloud,
2:40:25
you know, go to screenwriting class. So
2:40:28
how do we get? What would a witch do? How would a witch
2:40:31
feel? What's, what's it have to be the focus group? Which
2:40:34
focus group like trying to make that shit up. How
2:40:36
do we get, how do we get the most believable
2:40:39
eyes? How do we get the most believable? What
2:40:41
would a witch do if you were rich? What would you do? No
2:40:43
wrong
2:40:43
answers, guys. No wrong answers. Let's go. Let's just, let's
2:40:46
just spit ball this thing. Like what the
2:40:48
fuck? Yeah. You can shit up in
2:40:51
the court case live in front of a studio audience.
2:40:55
It would call them a S and L a sale sale
2:40:57
and night live.
2:40:58
Yeah. Yeah. And then
2:41:00
at the end, you're like, thank you. And it was like, okay, what
2:41:02
did we say there? Cause it's all cannon like
2:41:04
write it, write that shit down. That's going in the book. That's
2:41:07
going in the book. And
2:41:09
I don't know. And it worked, but it worked, but
2:41:11
it also fucked up history for historians because
2:41:13
they can't find an accurate reading
2:41:15
of what
2:41:16
witches actually were. What made them up because
2:41:19
it was an all fucking different for ever. Some, all these
2:41:21
different cases
2:41:21
in the haystack
2:41:22
to try and pinpoint
2:41:25
it. So these documents that can be
2:41:27
found, pretend to these court cases. Uh,
2:41:30
are all tarnished by folklore rather than the spontaneous
2:41:32
and voluntary confessions of the practitioners
2:41:35
of witchcraft. And it's even thought that these confessions
2:41:37
that were witnessed were somehow influenced by
2:41:40
knowledge of the folklore themselves and possibly
2:41:42
a prominent, the promise of leniency.
2:41:44
If the right confession was given. Oh my
2:41:46
goodness. So like a load of people had seen these other
2:41:48
confessions before and said, okay, what she said,
2:41:51
she's flying around the room in a broom. And
2:41:52
she said that, uh, she made an ointment
2:41:55
that a boy was baby fat. I
2:41:57
just say those two things. Cause that's what they like to hear.
2:41:59
She was flying around. What
2:42:02
was she flying around on?
2:42:04
Uhhhhh. Come
2:42:06
on, you know this. Come on. For $500.
2:42:10
No, you got this. It's
2:42:13
on. Bum bum bum bum.
2:42:15
I'll take Things
2:42:18
We Sweep the Floor with for $200, Alex. A
2:42:23
broom? He's done it!
2:42:26
It has to be in the form of a question. Is it a broom? You're
2:42:28
executed. You're a witch. You're a witch.
2:42:30
Witchcraft. Get
2:42:32
out of here. Witchfinder Trebek. You
2:42:35
succeeded again. The stakes are so high
2:42:37
in this game. Yeah. So
2:42:40
like, the confessions
2:42:43
would be polluted by the folklore
2:42:45
of other confessions. So
2:42:48
as the canon got more and more complicated, there was
2:42:50
a menu of things that women could confess
2:42:52
to do. And if you confessed,
2:42:54
you'd
2:42:55
be tarnished a witch, but you'd be allowed to
2:42:57
live. Wait, wait, so if they confessed
2:43:01
to being a witch, you'd just
2:43:03
gotta say 12 Hail Marys and you're off
2:43:05
the hook? Yeah, or like, we banish
2:43:07
you from the town and all of your wealth
2:43:10
and all of your family's inheritances and
2:43:12
all of your children should be tarnished and the
2:43:14
name of your family should be tarnished. It
2:43:17
was like... But you lived.
2:43:19
But we'll kill the
2:43:21
innocent. It was a way for poor people to accuse
2:43:24
richer, more influential people in the community and
2:43:26
usurp their influence by going like,
2:43:30
I don't like you. You're a witch.
2:43:32
All your wealth is gone. You're out of town and I
2:43:34
get to be on the council of the village
2:43:38
and I also get to live in your house because fuck you you
2:43:40
don't live there anymore.
2:43:40
And improve my
2:43:42
status. So it's like cultural Marxism. That's
2:43:46
the definition of the witch right there. It's just some bitch
2:43:48
you don't like. You spice
2:43:50
it up a little bit. Oh,
2:43:53
gee, Karen's, yeah. This is what it is. For
2:43:55
sooth, Karen has an accusation.
2:43:59
far is too far gone. So, you
2:44:02
know, if it's a, we've just established that if you
2:44:04
say you're a witch, they go, okay, off
2:44:06
you go. We're not going to, we're not going to kill a real witch. But
2:44:09
if you deny you are, and
2:44:11
maybe like, you know, be coerced into
2:44:13
like a guilty confession, um,
2:44:16
they're like, Oh, we actually killed someone innocent.
2:44:18
Sorry. My bad. You know what? We're just doing the work
2:44:20
of the Lord. No, that's the thing. Though
2:44:22
like the tests that they did though, I don't understand
2:44:25
that because like the test that they did where they're like, right, we're going
2:44:27
to put you
2:44:28
underwater for X amount of time. Right. And
2:44:30
if you live, then you're a witch. And if you die,
2:44:32
oopsie, my bad.
2:44:33
Well, that wasn't happening in the colonies and that was only happening
2:44:36
in England and Europe, but it is in this
2:44:38
time that we're talking about now. True. But,
2:44:40
but in, in the colonies and Salem and such,
2:44:42
it was done by, uh, uh, like
2:44:45
a jury of judge judges that were selected
2:44:48
to decide
2:44:49
based on your testimony, whether you were a witch or not. But
2:44:52
surely, obviously no
2:44:55
one actually passed those
2:44:57
tests because there's no actual, no,
2:44:59
well, they kept doing after like a hundred
2:45:01
people were like, Oh, we accidentally killed
2:45:04
a hundred people. A hundred people drowned. Like what?
2:45:09
There's no, that's what I'm saying. There's no consequences
2:45:11
for the people that are doing that because you either
2:45:13
win by exposing a witch
2:45:15
through torture slash confession.
2:45:18
Yeah. Or you have
2:45:20
somebody who still in
2:45:22
the flies in the face of God,
2:45:24
the almighty and refuses
2:45:26
to admit their witchcraft. Therefore
2:45:28
they should be judged by a jury
2:45:30
of their peers, invariably guilty, obviously,
2:45:33
and then executed for defying
2:45:35
the court because like they come in and go, are you a witch?
2:45:38
No, we have a woman that says, Yara, which will, I'm
2:45:40
not a witch. Well, she says, Yara and we all are
2:45:42
on the jury and you're in a court and we've arrested you
2:45:45
and Yara, which I'm because you played
2:45:47
not guilty and we found you guilty. You're
2:45:49
getting more jail time slash home. And
2:45:52
it was also the same thing happens in court now where
2:45:54
if you just take a guilty plea, you get a much less
2:45:56
sentence. But if you say I'm not guilty and
2:45:58
it goes to trial and you're found guilty.
2:45:59
you get the full term.
2:46:02
They also accused outcasts, people
2:46:04
who are already not conforming
2:46:07
with their community. Yeah, social down
2:46:09
and else. Yeah. And another
2:46:11
thing was- Older women happened a lot. Older
2:46:14
women, and then some were even, like some
2:46:16
tests weren't as foolproof as
2:46:18
the being submerged
2:46:20
in water. Some of it was just having the accuser
2:46:24
walking towards them in a haze and pointing
2:46:26
at them like, it's a witch! You know, like, that
2:46:28
was also a
2:46:30
test as well. The young ones were playing
2:46:32
in Salem, was fucking the
2:46:35
shite that they were going on with. Are we gonna
2:46:37
talk about the cakes? No. We're
2:46:39
doing all the Salem stuff at the very end. Amazing, okay,
2:46:41
I'll hold off. We're tickling balls right till
2:46:43
the gas. Ooh. But yeah,
2:46:47
the real fucking needle
2:46:49
in a handstack, super, super, it
2:46:52
was only more vague. It'd be a fucking the
2:46:54
site of a building. Like it's so vague. Like
2:46:56
these motherfuckers do not care. They
2:46:58
were just like,
2:47:00
you're gone. I've taken
2:47:02
a dislike to you. And now taking
2:47:04
advantage of a unprepared
2:47:07
legal system or an unregulated
2:47:09
legal system,
2:47:11
you're fucked. And
2:47:13
what we call that today is the court of public
2:47:15
opinion. Because
2:47:16
all you need to do is raise a bit of a stink
2:47:19
and some cunt will ring your job and say that you're
2:47:21
a racist and to save face the job of fire,
2:47:24
yeah? Because they don't want you to,
2:47:26
they don't want to be in trouble. They don't want to fucking catch
2:47:28
your stink, your social media
2:47:31
stink. Can I? All it takes
2:47:33
is a fucking accusation. Go ahead. Can
2:47:35
I mention something that happened to me on
2:47:37
my Twitter page? No names, but go
2:47:39
ahead. Yeah, no names, absolutely. Well, I don't even know
2:47:41
the names of these people. These are all Twitter usernames. And so
2:47:44
I won't even mention those. But basically I saw
2:47:47
on Twitter, there was an
2:47:49
Irish woman and she happened to
2:47:51
be a black Irish woman. And she was saying
2:47:54
loads of really racist stuff about
2:47:57
travelers. For the Americans
2:47:59
listening.
2:47:59
A traveler is not like a person
2:48:02
who travels. It's like what you guys would, what
2:48:04
we would call a gypsy, but that's a slur. You
2:48:06
can't. No, I think, I think. Is
2:48:08
that all right? Gypsies in some certain circumstances. Oh really? Yeah.
2:48:12
I was always told when I came here. They're like, pavi, gypsy.
2:48:15
Just don't call them like, tinkers
2:48:17
or knackers or anything. Yeah, exactly. They're
2:48:19
the no-no words.
2:48:20
But yeah, it's like, she was saying loads of racist stuff about
2:48:22
travelers or gypsies. And
2:48:25
so
2:48:26
basically, loads of Irish people
2:48:28
jumped in and they were like, hey, you can't
2:48:30
say that. That's the kind of racist. And
2:48:33
she was saying, well.
2:48:34
Can I guess? What? She said she has
2:48:36
a racial hierarchy, so she can say whatever she wants about
2:48:38
other races because she's a minority. Yeah, that's
2:48:40
what she was saying. Boom. That's the fucking culture
2:48:42
in my accent, bro.
2:48:43
But then, so then she got loads of, she has.
2:48:47
The Race Olympics. Yeah, she had a lot of
2:48:49
African-American followers and
2:48:51
a lot of Americans, again, don't
2:48:53
know what the term a traveler is. They
2:48:55
see that and they kind of like, this is how I was when
2:48:57
I first moved here. Oh, you just talked about
2:48:59
people who travel. So then I jumped in as
2:49:02
an American who's living in Ireland and I was trying to explain
2:49:05
to these other Americans, like,
2:49:07
hey, no, this is what a traveler is. And then
2:49:09
they jumped in and then they accused me
2:49:12
of being racist because I was not agreeing
2:49:15
with this Irish woman who happened to be black.
2:49:17
And then
2:49:17
some of them went and saw my Twitter page. And
2:49:20
I still have this as my bio because I didn't say anything wrong. I
2:49:22
have a joke where I'm like, oh, just another immigrant
2:49:25
stealing
2:49:27
jobs from the hardworking Irish people. Because
2:49:29
I'm an immigrant. I'm an immigrant here in Ireland.
2:49:32
And it's like a tongue in cheek thing.
2:49:34
Lots of Americans are like, oh, what is immigrant stealing?
2:49:38
You know, I don't like that attitude. And
2:49:40
I'm making a joke about it. But anyways, I saw that.
2:49:42
It's just a job that fucking most people know and they couldn't
2:49:44
do anyway because you're a de facto genius. Oh,
2:49:47
yeah, well, I was like, I got a tech degree and y'all
2:49:50
are horny for that shit. All the
2:49:52
tech degrees. There's not a lot of lads leaning on shovels
2:49:54
going on. Fucking hell, I could have been
2:49:56
an astrophysicist, me. I could have been fucking
2:49:58
up there.
2:49:59
20 college-spending astrophysicist
2:50:02
and I just never got the chance, never got the education.
2:50:05
No.
2:50:06
But they tried, people tried finding out my
2:50:08
job. They were like, oh, where does she work? They
2:50:11
literally tried to get me fired over
2:50:13
this.
2:50:13
That's fucking bullshit. Because I was
2:50:15
saying, like, doesn't matter what race
2:50:17
you are, you should not be saying racist
2:50:20
shit about travelers or anyone.
2:50:21
For longest time in Ireland, Betsy, I don't
2:50:24
know if you know, but the traveler
2:50:26
people
2:50:29
were just considered like,
2:50:31
what's the word, itinerant? I'm
2:50:33
not sure what that means. It's like, it's like a person of
2:50:35
no home. Oh, okay. So there were members
2:50:38
of the country,
2:50:41
but a lot of them don't have like PPS numbers
2:50:44
or you know, a lot of them don't have the
2:50:47
proper documentation to
2:50:50
cooperate in, you know,
2:50:53
society or whatever in the, in the, the,
2:50:55
the settler people or the country people and
2:50:58
then all that's been fixed over the last 20, 30 years, you
2:51:00
know, they're, they're getting their, their proper
2:51:02
documentation, proper, all this stuff, but it was still
2:51:05
like an acceptable racism. And
2:51:07
I think
2:51:07
two years ago, possibly three, the
2:51:10
Irish government finally relented and said, yes,
2:51:12
because of your indigent status
2:51:14
and because of the history
2:51:17
of your,
2:51:19
uh, genetic backgrounds that
2:51:21
travelers and people who identify as travelers in
2:51:23
certain
2:51:24
families and certain, um, uh, like
2:51:28
kind of, kind of legacy, uh,
2:51:31
what would you call it? Legacy family
2:51:33
lines. Yeah. People who are part
2:51:36
of this generational trauma. Exactly.
2:51:38
But like, uh, you have to be related to kind
2:51:40
of by blood or whatever to these families that you
2:51:42
were genuinely
2:51:44
classified as a
2:51:46
different race now in
2:51:48
Ireland, which was never done before
2:51:51
that they're actually like a different ethnic
2:51:53
background. Right. And that
2:51:55
was just like, you were just regular
2:51:57
Irish people who just decided to live in houses.
2:51:59
And you just lived in like, you know,
2:52:02
caravans or you were itinerant on the
2:52:04
roads of Ireland doesn't work. But
2:52:06
you were just regular people who decided to live like that. And
2:52:08
they're like, no, we're not. We're
2:52:10
like of a, of a gypsy origin
2:52:13
from an amalgamation of a load of different races
2:52:16
from a load of different countries,
2:52:18
um, that travel all over. And we
2:52:20
just happened to be
2:52:22
in Ireland at the moment. So you're saying
2:52:24
that we're Irish is like, yeah.
2:52:27
So finally they got the classification. So
2:52:29
now if that
2:52:30
Jake, this on Twitter is saying that she, she's
2:52:33
genuinely disparaging a defined
2:52:37
ethnic group. Oh, this was like a year ago. Yeah,
2:52:39
no, but still like, uh, there's
2:52:42
a race Olympics. There's like a victimhood
2:52:44
Olympics that's going on where it's like, well,
2:52:46
we're the most,
2:52:48
like we're the ones who have like the most oppression.
2:52:50
Do you think, do you think there's a bit of a, like,
2:52:53
you know, an offset of those groups or
2:52:56
multiple groups being like, I'm more hot, hard done by,
2:52:58
by you. Well, like,
2:53:00
yeah, there is, there's some groups that are like,
2:53:03
we're the, we're the mo we're the ones that get the
2:53:05
most shit. So we're the ones that can say anything to
2:53:07
anybody. Like there's a whole reclassification
2:53:09
of what racism is where it's not like disparagement
2:53:12
against another race. It's like,
2:53:14
just, it's like this, you
2:53:17
can only be racist to
2:53:19
people above, above, uh, below
2:53:21
you, but like white people tend to be like
2:53:23
at the top of that. So there's nobody can be racist
2:53:26
to white people. So anyone from any other race can talk
2:53:28
shit about white people. And it's not racist
2:53:30
because they are the oppressors. So it's
2:53:32
done on a class. It's reclassified as a class system
2:53:34
rather than a racial bit, like
2:53:36
a skin tone or an ethnic background or religious
2:53:39
backgrounds, like they fucked up the, it's
2:53:41
like all critical race theory stuff. It's all they fucked
2:53:43
up the classifications, what racism
2:53:45
is.
2:53:46
Well, it's like even, even when I was in, when
2:53:48
I was in high school, right? There were
2:53:50
not many Asian American students in my high
2:53:52
school. And I remember I was
2:53:54
friends with these two girls and
2:53:57
they're both Asian and people would
2:53:59
constantly.
2:53:59
like make racist
2:54:02
comments about both of them and all
2:54:04
this other stuff and I'd be like
2:54:06
hey you know that's not cool and
2:54:08
a
2:54:09
lot of times BTS are shit version
2:54:11
of Canva Absolut,
2:54:13
shut up. First of all they weren't even Korean, Gordo,
2:54:15
wow one of them was Thai and one of them was Chinese
2:54:18
so you're canceled.
2:54:20
I don't know any Thai or Chinese
2:54:23
pop culture references to Troinda right now.
2:54:26
It is a niche. Off the top of my head. I
2:54:28
might have a few Chinese zero Thai.
2:54:31
Probably have a few ties in your closet but um sorry
2:54:34
that's bad that's bad but no but they
2:54:36
anyways but people my high school some I heard people like
2:54:38
making racist comments about these girls
2:54:41
and I'd be like hey that's not cool you can't say that that's racist
2:54:44
and some of the people who are saying these comments they were
2:54:47
not white they were also
2:54:49
not Asian and so they would be like
2:54:51
oh Betsy you can't tell me that
2:54:53
because one you're a white person
2:54:55
you can't tell me to not be racist
2:54:58
because you're you
2:54:59
guys are the most racist but also then
2:55:01
they would say this they'd be like Asians are the
2:55:03
model minority which I hate that term
2:55:05
that's a horrible because they have their they definitely
2:55:08
have their own struggles and I don't
2:55:10
I'm not Asian I don't want to get into the whole but they're
2:55:12
the top earners and they're all that all that kind of yeah
2:55:15
on the hierarchy of what racism is like
2:55:18
Asians in America come above white people
2:55:20
because on average they earn more than
2:55:22
whites but that means that
2:55:23
you can be openly racist to Asian people just
2:55:25
like you can with white people but
2:55:27
you can't because they aren't ethnic minority like
2:55:30
so the rules get fucked up in that case
2:55:31
I'm down here being like no one should be
2:55:33
racist to anybody that's what I was saying
2:55:36
to them I was just that's exactly
2:55:38
what I was saying I was like it doesn't matter what
2:55:41
your background is doesn't matter if you're white
2:55:43
like me or
2:55:45
you know Asian like them or you know I don't
2:55:47
want to I don't want to say the exact
2:55:49
race of these people because I don't want to make it sure but I
2:55:51
don't agree you know what I mean yeah but
2:55:53
it's that's just they were just excusing it being
2:55:55
like well because you're white you can't
2:55:58
tell me that I'm being racist and
2:55:59
and because they are a model minority,
2:56:02
I'm allowed to be racist towards them. It was, and again,
2:56:04
this was high school though, but I've heard this stuff as
2:56:06
an adult
2:56:07
as well. I've heard it a lot online,
2:56:09
and it's in the comic culture now as well, where,
2:56:14
yeah, that stuff is really at the forefront of the
2:56:16
discussions people are having online now.
2:56:18
I would call that cultural
2:56:21
reparations, where there's
2:56:24
a certain cohort of
2:56:26
the different, of all the different races that kind
2:56:28
of own their own
2:56:30
racial epithets and racial
2:56:32
slurs, like Richard
2:56:35
Pryor using the N word and kind of
2:56:37
recapturing
2:56:39
the meaning of it for that
2:56:41
community. Crazy Rich
2:56:43
Asians is like this new,
2:56:46
the start of this new pop
2:56:48
culture Asian wave of
2:56:51
like Aquafina and all of these characters,
2:56:53
all these people that are coming in,
2:56:55
to pop culture undertaking these
2:56:59
Asian stereotypes and kind of making them
2:57:01
pop culture, making them funny and making them fun
2:57:03
and making it kind of like an acceptable, like we're laughing
2:57:05
at our own stuff, but you can laugh at it, but you can laugh with
2:57:08
us kind of stuff, you know? Yeah, yeah. And
2:57:10
it come to a crazy point where like
2:57:12
the Asian culture was getting, the Asian culture was like
2:57:15
permeating pop culture in America. And then they
2:57:17
went to Aquafina and said, hey, you're,
2:57:21
what's it called when you culturally appropriating
2:57:24
blackness, you have to stop doing that. And she's
2:57:26
like, what? And she's like, yeah, cause
2:57:28
you're putting on like a black scent.
2:57:29
No, she wasn't cause I went to, I
2:57:31
went to school in upstate New York and
2:57:35
a lot of my friends were
2:57:37
from the city
2:57:38
of New York. And because of certain
2:57:41
like clubs and stuff that I was at at
2:57:43
the university, I had a lot of Asian
2:57:46
friends and a lot of them spoke the same way she did
2:57:48
because they were raised in the inner city of
2:57:50
New York. And that was just their accent that
2:57:53
they had in the inner city of New York.
2:57:55
But imagine being so hard
2:57:57
up for like attention and. with
2:58:00
so little self worth
2:58:03
that you would debase your own
2:58:05
race to accuse somebody of a notarization minority
2:58:08
of cultural appropriation of your race just
2:58:10
to get some clout on the internet. You're like, that's
2:58:12
fucking, that's low stakes, man. Like that's
2:58:14
real like
2:58:16
bullshit carry on. You know?
2:58:18
Yeah. Yeah. Um, sorry.
2:58:21
A tangent. It's all
2:58:23
good. They're very interesting tangents.
2:58:25
I abhor papering over them
2:58:27
because like Google have great chats, but it's like,
2:58:32
um, so yeah, look at these, these, these women
2:58:34
were made to confess. They
2:58:36
were influenced by
2:58:38
the common folklore
2:58:39
and obviously their confessions were very informed
2:58:42
and informative to their accusers.
2:58:45
Um,
2:58:47
but of these 500 cases that were prosecuted
2:58:49
and brought to trial between 1300 and 1500 AD,
2:58:53
the transcripts and judicial documentation for
2:58:55
only 21 of them have survived.
2:58:57
Imagine. So these were counter prosecuted
2:59:00
and the accusers were then they themselves
2:59:02
accused of defamation, which is why the documents
2:59:04
were kept.
2:59:05
So this didn't fly so high in Swiss, German,
2:59:08
and French courts, but the English judges
2:59:11
were much more likely to demand the satisfaction
2:59:14
from a case of defamation than
2:59:16
from a case of witchcraft. So they didn't prosecute.
2:59:19
So, so
2:59:19
to
2:59:20
put it simply
2:59:22
in all of these other countries,
2:59:25
anybody who accused somebody of being a witch, you're a witch. Are
2:59:27
you? Yes. You sure? Yeah.
2:59:30
You're dead or you're
2:59:32
a witch. No, I'm not. You are.
2:59:35
I'm not. Isn't she? She is
2:59:37
your witch. You're dead. And there was no documents
2:59:40
kept for those types of interactions. But
2:59:42
when someone went, you're a witch,
2:59:44
you sir have defamed me. Oh,
2:59:47
fuck. Get out the pens and paper. She said the word.
2:59:50
Oh, no. And those, those things have to be
2:59:52
kept because they were of legal precedent. Yeah. But
2:59:54
in the other courts in Europe, it was like,
2:59:56
well, England was super fucking like,
2:59:59
and I,
From The Podcast
Those Conspiracy Guys
Those Conspiracy Guys is a history, comedy and true crime podcast from Ireland produced and presented by Gordon Rochford and the topics discussed are varied and wide-ranging; from the speculations on the out-there conspiracy theories like aliens, time travel, and ancient civilisations to researched discussions on the more grounded, historical and provable conspiracies like political and financial corruption, scientific chicanery and secret government agency shenanigans.In long-form group discussions; interviews with authors and experts; live stage shows and streams with an eager audience; and collaborations with other conspiracy creators; Gordo examines all the wildest notions and most unbelievable theories in the ever broadening genre of 'conspiracy'. From the high-concept topics like inter-dimensional lizard men, complicated assassination plots and potential future technologies like alternative simulated universes; to the much more tangible topics like discussing serial killers and mysterious true crime cases; exploring the history of religions and cult leaders; and historically profiling the lives and times of some of the most influential people to have lived, and died. Those Conspiracy Guys brings you on a light hearted and hilarious exploration of these fantastic stories through thoroughly researched and painstakingly contmeplated production; making it easy and fun for these sometimes heavy and complicated topics to be digested, with lashings of good old irreverend Irish craic from host Gordon Rochford and a cavalcade of hilarious comedians, committed creators and fabulously interesting guests.Join Podchaser to...
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