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0:39

Mato got killed for

0:41

a bit of her. For a little

0:43

bit of her. Her

0:44

was shown. Now

0:50

Iranian women are angry and telling

0:52

the rest of the world that we're not even even

0:54

fighting against compulsory a job. We

0:57

want an end for gender apartheid

0:59

regime.

1:35

For the day

1:37

is fading, the evening shadows

1:39

are stretching. Our

1:48

being like a cage full

1:50

of birds is filled with

1:52

the bones of captivity.

1:54

This is a poem by the Iranian poet,

1:57

Furo Farroçad, recited

1:59

in her nineteen sixty three film. The

2:02

house is black. your highness

2:04

field

2:07

and

2:10

none among us knows how long it will

2:12

last.

2:19

The

2:19

harvest season passed,

2:22

the

2:22

summer season came to an end,

2:25

and we did not

2:26

find deliverance.

2:28

Fateral Sog was an artist ahead

2:30

of her time. She wrote modern

2:32

submersive poems that topics

2:34

like sex, depression, and women's

2:36

liberation. Despite criticism

2:39

from conservatives in society, she

2:41

still published her work, work

2:43

that remains so relevant that the

2:45

Islamic Republic first banded then

2:48

heavily censored it after the revolution.

2:56

She died in nineteen sixty seven

2:59

at the age of thirty two, but

3:01

remains a symbolic and prophetic

3:03

figure whose work is indicative

3:05

of the long history of the women's

3:08

liberation movement in Iran.

3:10

right

3:13

i

3:16

Like doves, we cry for justice.

3:20

and there is none.

3:23

We wait for light and

3:25

darkness

3:25

reigns.

3:33

Demonstrations now erupting

3:36

across the globe following the death

3:38

of twenty two year old Masa Amini. It

3:40

has been weeks. Weeks since

3:43

Masa Amini also known by her

3:45

Kurdish name, Gina Amini,

3:46

died in the custody of Iran's

3:49

morality police. She was a member

3:51

of Iran's Kurdish minority. a

3:53

group that's historically faced state repression.

3:56

You'll hear both her names in this

3:58

episode. Amini

3:59

was arrested by Iran's morality police

4:02

for not wearing her properly. Protesters

4:04

charged she was beaten to death.

4:07

since the Iranian people took to

4:09

the streets. People are furious.

4:11

Videos posted on Twitter show demonstrators

4:14

calling for the fall of the clerical establishment

4:16

in Tehran, Hong and

4:18

other major Iranian cities. It

4:20

can be difficult to parse out where exactly

4:23

these protests came from

4:24

and how they differ from the ones that happened

4:27

in twenty nineteen or two thousand

4:29

nine. but many analysts and

4:31

Iranian are saying that this time

4:33

feels different. What is happening right now

4:35

in Iran?

4:37

Alright. a delusion is happening. I

4:55

was born in Iran and

4:57

still have many connections there. Over

5:00

the last few weeks, I've been in touch

5:02

with Iranians living in Iran and

5:04

in the US. Everyone I've talked

5:06

to has been echoing this sentiment. They

5:08

pointed the fact that these are protests that

5:10

are angrier, more widespread, than

5:12

anything that's come before. There

5:14

aren't just calls for reform. People

5:16

are openly questioning the very legitimacy

5:19

of the power of Iran's clerics.

5:22

Protesters are burning their compulsory head

5:24

covering, the hitch out. They're cursing

5:26

the name of the country's supreme leader,

5:28

even destroying his photos in the street.

5:31

this is unprecedented. Iran

5:33

is an authoritarian state where

5:35

doing these things is very dangerous.

5:38

And so far, that's been true. The

5:40

regime has cracked down hard,

5:42

allegedly killing hundreds of protesters.

5:45

But these

5:45

protests aren't just a reaction to

5:48

recent events. They aren't just

5:50

about the compulsory exam. They're

5:52

born out of century long

5:54

fight by the Iranian people for self

5:56

determination. And as long as

5:58

this fight has been going on, Iranian

6:01

women have been at the center of it. women

6:03

have played a major role in Iran's

6:05

modern political and cultural

6:07

movements since its first revolution

6:09

of the twentieth century, more than a

6:11

hundred years ago, Artists

6:12

like Furo Farooza or

6:15

human rights activists like Bastien

6:17

So today and Sheating Ebrady have

6:19

put their lives on the line. for freedom

6:21

of expression, for justice.

6:24

Which

6:24

Iran did these women and others

6:26

like them come from? what

6:28

long historical thread did they belong

6:30

to.

6:32

In this episode, we're going to explore

6:34

those questions with

6:35

Iranian American legal anthropologists Arezu

6:38

Osinhlo, who has studied Iran's

6:40

legal system for decades.

6:42

It's very exciting. It's very

6:45

sad, but I

6:48

feel like there's an opportunity

6:50

for people to really see

6:52

the incredible

6:54

work that so many people in

6:57

Iran are doing

6:58

and have been doing for quite

7:00

a long time.

7:00

And we begin that

7:03

story when we come back.

7:08

Hi.

7:08

This is Leonor Luzon from

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Missouri, Montana. and you're

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our work at through line. So

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we hope you'll join.

8:13

Now, back to the show.

8:15

Part one, where

8:17

there are no rights,

8:18

there are no duties.

8:23

Sure.

8:27

Yes. This

8:28

is

8:33

And this is

8:36

Ramteen

8:36

greeting her in Farsi. which they both speak

8:39

fluently. Every stepson, Anja.

8:41

I'm sorry. That's

8:45

not part of the That's part of And

8:48

that amazing laughter is from

8:50

Doeline producer, Anja Steinberg,

8:52

who showed up to record this interview

8:54

in person. What

8:55

a champ. Okay.

8:58

So, Razu is an anthropologist and

9:00

a lawyer. And I'm

9:01

a professor at the University

9:03

of Wash in the Department of Law societies

9:05

and Justice. And

9:08

I'm a legal anthropologist by

9:10

training. A legal anthropologist which

9:12

means she studies legal systems like

9:14

an anthropologist would, by looking at

9:16

all the parts of a culture that create a

9:19

legal system.

9:19

My first book is called the politics of

9:22

women's rights in Iran.

9:23

To write that book, Arzu did

9:25

years of field work in Iran where she

9:27

interviewed activist lawyers, government

9:29

officials. and everyday citizens, especially

9:32

women who had to interact with the legal

9:34

system all the time. I

9:35

wanted

9:36

to return to Iran because sitting

9:38

in the United States and having

9:40

lived in the United States all my life since

9:42

I was two years old. I wanted

9:44

to know what women there really thought

9:47

because It was very

9:49

simplistic and very easy for my

9:51

colleagues, whether it was human

9:53

rights advocates or women

9:56

rights advocates who

9:58

would pound their fist on the table and say they were fighting

10:00

for the rights of women in Muslim societies

10:02

or Iranian women in particular.

10:04

And when I went back to Iran in nineteen

10:06

ninety nine, Part of my project was to

10:08

understand where does this come from?

10:10

This trope of the oppressed Iranian

10:12

Middle Eastern Muslim woman

10:15

Where does that come from? And the other was

10:17

the what's really happening in Iran? What's

10:19

really what do women really think?

10:22

And what I came to understand

10:25

was that the

10:26

concept It's not just that I'm studying

10:28

substantively what our women's rights in

10:30

Iran. but this this

10:31

is an idiomatic phrase, or

10:35

or the woman

10:37

question, are

10:39

deeply

10:40

politicized, and

10:42

so I needed to contextualize it.

10:55

The end of Iran's monarchy came

10:57

early today when Romania's followers took

10:59

control of the palace of the

11:01

shah. Romania almost

11:03

unknown outside of Iran just a few

11:05

months ago, returned to hero.

11:07

The man who from long distance

11:09

had led the revolution to topple

11:11

Michelle.

11:14

In

11:14

nineteen seventy nine, a massive

11:17

popular revolution happened in

11:19

Iran that overthrew

11:20

the country's shock or king.

11:22

He was

11:23

a dictator who was closely allied with

11:25

the United States. He spent lavishly

11:27

on himself and his family

11:29

he bought billions of dollars in weapons from

11:31

the US. He embraced modernization and

11:34

development. He jailed

11:36

and killed people who oppose

11:38

him. The popular movement against

11:40

him started in the mid nineteen seventies

11:42

and included Iranians from all

11:44

walks of life. Students, women,

11:46

leftists, islamists, progressives,

11:48

conservatives, old, young, the

11:50

list goes on. And even though

11:52

these goops disagreed about a lot of things,

11:55

they all agreed that it was

11:57

time to bring an end to the monarchy.

11:59

And

11:59

they

11:59

found themselves a symbolic leader in

12:02

Ayatollah Khomeini. He was

12:04

a cleric who long opposed the

12:06

shah and had been living in exile for over

12:08

a decade. While in exile,

12:10

Romania was viewed as the spiritual

12:12

guide for the revolution, a

12:14

person who was opposite of the shah,

12:16

as a kind of mystic, a

12:18

progressive Muslim, above the

12:20

pettiness of power and politics. He

12:23

was like an empty canvas on which

12:25

political groups could project

12:26

their own ideas. My father, a

12:29

leftist, was a supporter of and a

12:31

participant in the revolution.

12:33

He thought Romania would be a

12:35

sort of guardian of the

12:37

revolution's ideals. He even read

12:39

Rimini's speeches and books that were

12:41

smuggled into Iran. On

12:43

one occasion, The Shaw's Secret Police

12:45

Force searched his house looking for them.

12:47

My mother had already thrown the books

12:49

away knowing the danger they presented.

12:51

But

12:51

after the shah left the country and

12:54

Ayatollah Khomeini

12:54

returned from exile, it became

12:57

clear he wanted to be more than a

12:59

spiritual guide. you

13:01

seem to have had some success you

13:03

and your followers in changing

13:05

the government into Iran.

13:08

you have feeling any feeling for

13:10

how long it may be before there is

13:12

an Islamic state in

13:14

Iran? destinations. It

13:17

is very close. I mean, perhaps very

13:19

soon, we will announce a

13:21

new government.

13:25

Romania and his fellow clerics wanted

13:28

power, and they were willing to take it

13:30

by asserting their moral authority as

13:32

religious leaders in a very

13:34

religious country. Clarex would say

13:36

this explicitly at the time.

13:38

The leadership of

13:40

the Islamic society

13:43

find themselves responsible

13:47

for everything that

13:49

may have

13:51

an effect on the

13:53

development of the

13:55

life in every aspect.

13:58

In this way, we

14:00

feel us responsible

14:02

for politics, for

14:05

economy, and for

14:07

morale. For morals,

14:09

Homeni had read Plato's

14:11

Republic as a young seminary

14:13

student and loved Plato's

14:15

idea of philosopher kings. a

14:17

group of educated enlightened men who would

14:19

rule justly over a society.

14:21

He thought, well, that's

14:23

us. the clerics of Shiyi

14:26

Islam, the form of Islam practice

14:28

by most Iranians. We should

14:30

rule Iran. It's an idea

14:32

called So

14:34

he and his fellow clerics

14:36

started behaving this way. They

14:38

replaced Iran's legal system.

14:40

They started instituting Islamic

14:42

laws or sharia. on

14:44

everything from the kinds of music and movies that

14:46

could be played in public to laws

14:48

around inheritance and criminal justice.

14:50

and they paid particular attention

14:53

to what Rizzo Osanlu calls,

14:56

Masalezaan, the

14:58

woman question. What

14:59

about the role of women in the new society?

15:02

A woman must

15:06

be at first a good

15:08

mother And after

15:10

that, everything is

15:12

allowed to

15:14

sacrifice position of

15:16

a mother in the way of

15:19

such of such

15:21

thing that we don't

15:23

agree.

15:23

This is a prominent cleric who was

15:26

closely allied with Romania

15:28

talking to a western journalist in nineteen

15:30

seventy nine. He's basically

15:32

explaining their position on the role of

15:34

women in society that women

15:36

belonged in the home taking care of their

15:38

families. He's saying this

15:40

because in the nineteen seventies, Iranian

15:43

women, especially women living in the

15:45

capital Tehran, were living

15:47

lives not all that different from

15:49

their western counterparts. They were

15:51

graduating from high school and college in

15:53

record numbers. They were in the workforce.

15:55

The government didn't restrict what they

15:57

could wear. women were going to

15:59

bars and nightclubs, basically

16:01

living modern lives. For

16:03

many women, the cleric's hard

16:05

line stance felt like a step

16:07

backwards. the revolution was supposed to

16:09

be about bringing more freedom,

16:11

not taking freedom away.

16:16

This

16:18

demonstration was the nearest due to an

16:20

acting committee rally yet. position

16:23

of Islamic law here has started with an

16:25

law firms to women to cover their heads in

16:27

government offices. Many are

16:29

furious, only a minority in

16:31

Iran already followed the establishment.

16:34

When this announcement first came out,

16:36

only a month or so after Comenity

16:38

had actually returned to Iran, women

16:40

took to the streets on international women's day

16:42

nineteen seventy nine, and for many

16:44

days thereafter, and not just in Tehran,

16:46

but throughout Iran.

16:53

They called

16:56

for their rights and they

16:58

used this

16:59

language of rights. You can see even

17:01

today that held up posters

17:03

and signs that called for equality.

17:14

They

17:14

were criticized for

17:17

being defiant. of the sort

17:19

of indigenous revolution

17:21

that was happening. When

17:23

women took to the streets,

17:26

put counterrevolutioners, people who were

17:28

against what women were doing, called them

17:30

Western puppets, called them Barbie dolls, and

17:32

they were actually physically

17:34

attacked. But the

17:37

issue has provided an escape

17:39

valve for many of the men here and for days

17:41

have been spoiling for trouble. led

17:43

by a few Islamic sellers, several

17:45

hundred men eventually attacked the

17:47

protesters. Several of the women who stood

17:49

their ground with considerable courage

17:51

were stabbed as they child a bit

17:52

slow during the speaking court rights.

17:59

The state said, you

18:02

know, we don't need this language of rights. We

18:04

don't need the language of democracy. These

18:06

are western concepts. And

18:08

our mission is is

18:10

really to elevate society.

18:13

But it

18:15

was precisely this

18:18

point where they turned

18:20

to the question of women.

18:22

And they said, number one,

18:24

the family is the most important unit

18:26

of society. We have no use for this

18:29

Western individualism. And because

18:31

family is the most important unit

18:33

of society, we have

18:35

to strengthen the women.

18:38

who are the jewels in the

18:41

crown of the family who are gonna

18:43

raise the children. So right

18:45

there and then, The

18:46

new post revolutionary

18:49

leaders made

18:51

women a very

18:53

important signifier of

18:56

the revolutionary,

18:57

slogans, the revolutionary

19:00

battles, and

19:01

also a

19:02

measure of the success of

19:05

the revolution. The

19:11

constitution that was written after the nineteen

19:13

seventy nine revolution actually

19:17

has language to the

19:19

point that I just made.

19:21

Family is the primary

19:22

of society in accordance with that

19:24

women are

19:26

emancipated from the state of being an

19:28

object or tool. of

19:31

consumerism and exploitation.

19:34

And this image of Iranian women

19:36

wearing a headscarf would now show the

19:38

world that

19:39

Iran is no longer

19:42

a puppet of the west. It's no longer

19:44

going to focus on

19:47

the individuated rights discourse

19:49

or the individualism of the

19:52

west, but is now going to

19:54

focus on The family

19:56

exalting women and women would

19:58

be at signifiers

19:59

spreading that image of

20:02

Iran to

20:04

the world.

20:12

By

20:12

making women's issues, a

20:15

centerpiece of the revolution, Iran's

20:17

clerics had also assured that the

20:19

issue would never go away. Women's

20:21

rights became tied to a more fundamental

20:24

desire for liberation from any

20:26

form of tyranny. This

20:28

desire to get rid of the shah and

20:30

to be free of Western domination didn't come

20:32

out of nowhere. It was the

20:34

culmination of a nearly century

20:36

long battle.

20:38

One

20:38

place where we could locate it

20:40

is the constitutional revolution

20:42

at the start of the twentieth century.

20:46

For hundreds of years, Iran was

20:49

ruled by some kind of shah, king

20:51

after king, ruler after

20:52

ruler, dominated

20:55

the country. But in the early twentieth century, something

20:58

changed. Between nineteen o five and nineteen

21:00

eleven, Iran experienced its

21:02

first modern political revolution.

21:04

a group of activists organized a mass

21:07

movement against Iran's shah and

21:09

demanded that the country adopt a

21:11

constitution. The first of its kind

21:13

in the Islamic world with

21:15

sweeping political reforms. It

21:18

established a legislature with real

21:20

power instituted voting for

21:22

some men and place limitations

21:24

on the power of the monarchy. Women

21:26

were

21:26

so involved.

21:28

In that revolution, women's

21:31

participation led to

21:32

Morgan Shuster, who

21:33

was an American businessman that

21:36

Iran's parliament had appointed to

21:38

be the treasurer general for

21:40

just like about six months in nineteen eleven.

21:43

But he called Iranian women,

21:45

quote, the most progressive, not

21:47

to say

21:47

radical

21:48

in the world.

21:50

Women's participation

21:53

has been really pivotal

21:56

to political transformation. going

21:59

back over

21:59

a century in Iran.

22:02

The success

22:03

of the constitutional revolution

22:05

encouraged women to organize more

22:08

and

22:08

by the nineteen twenties. We also saw

22:10

a thriving women's

22:13

press, newspapers

22:15

run by women women journalists,

22:19

articles about women, which

22:21

was all very, very important to

22:24

grassroots feminist movements.

22:27

By

22:28

the forties,

22:29

we saw the emergence of

22:32

an actual political party, the women the

22:34

Iranian women's party, which

22:36

developed a platform that demanded

22:39

women's enfranchisement and

22:41

as activists actually work with lobbying

22:43

members of

22:43

Iran's parliament. But

22:45

even as Iran modernized and the

22:48

women's rights movement found success they

22:50

got pushed back from conservatives,

22:52

clerics, and others, saying the

22:54

women really belonged at home

22:56

that modernization threatened

22:58

the Iranian family. At the

23:00

time, a very interesting retort

23:04

to this idea of, you know,

23:06

women should really focus on The

23:08

family was the secretary general

23:11

of the women's party, Fatima

23:14

Saia famously announced

23:16

where there are no rights, there are no

23:19

duties.

23:20

These activists

23:22

in the forties

23:24

and fifties really brought a consciousness

23:27

about women's roles

23:29

and status in society you cannot

23:32

have this false binary

23:34

of private versus public

23:37

status and rights for women. If you

23:39

don't have public recognition

23:41

of gender equality,

23:44

then women are

23:44

going to suffer, and hence, their families

23:47

are going to

23:48

suffer. The

23:50

victory of the

23:50

constitutional revolution was

23:53

short lived. By nineteen

23:55

twenty one, Reza Shah

23:57

Paravi, a military strong man, took

23:59

power in a

23:59

coup. He basically

24:01

made the parliament powerless

24:03

And in the nineteen fifties, his son,

24:05

Mohammed Mehreza, took over power.

24:08

Even though he was essentially an absolute

24:11

dictator, Mohammad Ghazazah

24:13

was not immune to political pressure.

24:15

In nineteen sixty three, he introduced

24:17

a reform program that was designed

24:19

to modernize Iran. it

24:22

included land redistribution and legal

24:24

reform, and later on, an

24:26

official plan for gender

24:28

equality. shot

24:29

introduced a six point reform

24:31

program, which was referred to back then as

24:33

the white revolution. The

24:34

white revolution. It

24:37

was a turning point for Iran. And in

24:39

March

24:39

third nineteen sixty three, Iranian

24:41

women were finally allowed to vote

24:43

for the first time. This movement

24:46

that started in nineteen

24:48

o five finally yielded

24:51

its fruit of victory for for

24:54

women. And

24:55

women's right to vote was just the

24:57

start of the reforms. The

24:59

attention to women's in franchisement

25:01

doesn't stop just with women voting, but

25:03

we need to think about reforming the laws.

25:05

that affect everyday lives.

25:08

And this came about with the nineteen sixty

25:11

seven law called the Family Protection

25:14

Law that sought to correct women's

25:16

inequality before the law,

25:18

and in particular, in the context

25:20

of divorce and child

25:23

custody. Before

25:24

the family protection law, Iran,

25:26

like many other countries in the world,

25:28

had laws that were slanted towards men

25:30

when it came to divorce. Men held

25:32

all the power in these matters. But

25:35

after this law, women could petition

25:37

for divorce. They could also petition

25:40

for custody of their children after their

25:41

divorce. These reforms were

25:43

so

25:43

significant that they drew the ire of

25:46

Iran's religious establishment, including

25:48

a middle aged cleric living

25:50

in exile.

25:52

Romania issued decrees saying

25:55

these were un Islamic women

25:57

who are divorced under

25:59

this law are still married. And

26:01

if they get remarried, then

26:03

they're basically being they're prostituting themselves

26:06

out. So this became a very

26:09

important wedge issue,

26:11

if you will, in that period.

26:13

Why

26:14

a wedge issue? Well,

26:16

it's important to note that as the opposition to the

26:18

shaw heated up in the nineteen seventies,

26:21

his reforms were often

26:23

associated with his pro western stance.

26:26

So people would say that the reforms of the White Revolution

26:28

were just more Western imperialism,

26:31

consumerism, commodification, capitalism

26:34

creeping into Iran. And

26:36

so people from across the political

26:38

spectrum, who oppose the shah, who considered

26:40

him a western puppet, began

26:42

to view the hijab for example,

26:44

as political statement, a

26:47

rejection of the shah. And once the

26:49

revolution happened, and Iran's clerics

26:51

began to seize power, they

26:53

used the hijab and other cultural

26:55

wedge issues as a way to impose

26:57

control over the country. And

26:58

they were able to say that We

27:01

actually have a monopoly not only on

27:03

legitimate violence, which is what every

27:05

nation states leaders have.

27:07

But now also the

27:09

values that we are saying

27:12

come from our our faith as

27:14

well. Romania would order

27:16

this suspension of the family protection

27:18

law first passed under the Shaw.

27:21

Suddenly, women weren't just ordered to wear

27:23

hijab in public, They were banned from working

27:25

certain jobs. They weren't allowed to

27:27

dance in public. They weren't allowed to seek

27:29

divorce without a court Men

27:31

could just declare it verbally. And they

27:33

had to get their husband's permission to travel

27:35

out of the country. It

27:37

was like the progress of the previous century was

27:40

wiped away. But

27:42

Ayazhu says that ultimately, the

27:44

Islamic revolution wasn't

27:46

just about Islam. What

27:48

was new in the nineteen seventy nine

27:51

era was not

27:53

Islam. Islam had been

27:55

around in what we now call

27:57

Iran, four hundreds,

27:58

actually fifteen hundred

28:00

years. What was

28:02

new was the idea of

28:04

a

28:04

republic. And with it, a

28:06

renewed commitment to the idea of rights.

28:13

Coming

28:14

up The fight for equality begins

28:16

in the Islamic Republic, and

28:19

the revolution continues.

28:24

Hi.

28:24

This is Nicole Charbonneau from Marion,

28:27

Massachusetts, and you are listening

28:28

to TRULANCE from

28:29

NPR.

28:34

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28:56

Part

28:59

two, a

29:01

mirror of legitimacy.

29:08

Two decades

29:08

after the revolution, Arazoo Osun

29:11

Lu wanted to see up close

29:13

and in person, how women dealt with

29:15

the legal system, and how they were

29:17

fighting for more rights. And

29:19

I went and talked to a

29:21

number of

29:22

different lawyers, men and

29:24

women lawyers. And I said, I wanna talk about, you

29:26

know, how are women getting their

29:28

rights in Islam? And they they,

29:31

like,

29:31

stopped me right there and looked at me and

29:33

said, what are you talking about? We're a Republic.

29:35

We're not women are getting their rights in Islam.

29:37

We're we're we're

29:37

we're we're getting their rights. and they're getting them through

29:40

our civil codes, and you need to go and read the

29:42

civil codes, and you need to go,

29:44

they told me to go and sit in on the

29:46

courts yourself, and

29:48

seed. Can I can

29:50

I

29:50

just inference it? because I'm I guess I'm a

29:52

little confused because what was the

29:54

rationale there? Like, aren't the civil

29:57

codes being derived from the specific Islamic

29:59

interpretation? Like, where how

30:02

how are they rationalizing kind of the connection

30:05

between you know,

30:06

those two things.

30:07

That was that was my question too. I

30:09

I kinda, like, you know, looked down. I turned red.

30:11

I was like, how am I getting this

30:14

wrong? Well, actually, Iran

30:17

has civil codes that

30:19

are bodies of

30:21

law that are derived

30:23

impart from the Shat. Shat

30:25

is short for Sherry Law. But

30:27

also,

30:27

procedurally, they

30:30

are civil codes

30:31

that come from French and

30:34

Belgian civil legal

30:36

systems. So Iran's

30:38

laws are not, let's say,

30:40

you know, you don't open the Quran and say, okay,

30:42

where are women's rights there? There are

30:45

actually codifications of

30:48

interpretations that have been

30:51

approved by several

30:52

layers.

30:56

After the revolution, a new constitution was

30:59

ratified, and the

31:00

country adopted a complicated civil

31:03

code. The democratically

31:04

elected parliament creates

31:07

laws. which a non elected body called the

31:09

Guardian Council can then

31:11

veto based on whether or not they think that

31:13

law conforms to

31:15

its Islamic law. This Guardian Council

31:17

is composed of lawyers and clerics.

31:20

All men, of course. but

31:22

the multiple layers of authority

31:24

also left some wiggle room. If

31:26

you can make a case to the Guardian

31:29

Council, you can potentially carve out more

31:31

individual rights and have them sanctified

31:33

as Islamic law. It was a

31:35

kind of loop poll or for women's

31:37

rights advocates an

31:39

opportunity. What struck me

31:40

at that time was this emphasis on

31:43

the language of rights, what

31:45

I call writes talk. This was

31:47

everywhere everywhere I loved on posters,

31:50

on publicity, advertisements,

31:53

newspapers, television, people I interviewed,

31:55

people who were just like ordinary

31:57

citizens who were going about their lives, and they

31:59

said, well, I

31:59

just want my rights, I just want what's

32:02

my

32:02

due. And the reason

32:04

that this struck me was going back to

32:06

the nineteen seventy nine revolution

32:07

when women protest

32:10

did the, you know, repeal or the suspension

32:12

of the family protection law and others.

32:14

They were attacked for using

32:16

the language of rights. They were attacked

32:19

by the revolutionaries as,

32:21

you know, writes talk is Western

32:23

imperialist discourse. But now, this

32:25

Islamic Republic twenty years had

32:29

sanctified and sort of

32:31

legitimized a new rights

32:33

talk as in conformity

32:36

with Islam.

32:37

And what's

32:39

more? This is

32:41

a state that in its constitution

32:44

has privileged

32:46

efforts to improve

32:47

women's status and rights in

32:49

the post revolutionary era

32:52

as one of the aims of the

32:54

revolution. So suddenly,

32:55

what you have is

32:57

the empirical measure of

33:00

improvement in women's lives

33:02

is now

33:02

actually a measure of the

33:05

success of the revolution. And I

33:07

believe that this is something that

33:09

the women who were very

33:11

prominent at that time were

33:13

holding up as a mirror of

33:15

legitimacy to the

33:16

state. The

33:17

gauntlet

33:19

was thrown women

33:21

essentially said, if we're so

33:23

important here, you'd better give us

33:25

our rights. Let

33:26

me just start with the

33:28

marriage and family protection law. So this

33:30

was suspended. It was never fully

33:33

repealed. So there

33:34

were some suggestion that

33:38

some of the provisions were not in conformity

33:40

with Islam, and some of these had to do

33:42

with women being able to seek divorce.

33:44

Now, what happened after

33:46

the revolution that this was taken

33:49

away.

33:49

However, the civil code

33:52

did state A

33:54

number of articles under

33:56

this provision, under which

33:58

women would be eligible to seek a judicial

34:00

divorce. So these

34:02

included, oh, if the husband is a drag

34:04

addict, if the husband has left home, if the

34:06

husband hasn't paid marital support for the

34:08

wife and child, women latched

34:10

on those very few, like five

34:12

provisions. And they started

34:16

to fight and

34:17

they had to fight by going into court. And I have so many interviews

34:19

with women who said I know the laws better than

34:21

any judge or cleric because I had to

34:23

learn them and fight for

34:26

my rights. Women in Iran said to me,

34:28

you don't have rights

34:29

if you don't go

34:32

after them.

34:34

In

34:37

nineteen

34:39

ninety seven, there was

34:42

a his historic presidential election in Iran where

34:44

nearly eighty percent of eligible

34:46

voters turned out. And

34:48

the winner

34:48

was a cleric named

34:51

Ayatollah Mohammed Khawtami. Western

34:54

media betrayed him as

34:56

a moderate. The smiling

35:00

face of moderation, at least

35:02

what's considered moderate in a run. fifty

35:04

four year old Mohammed Hattermi's crushing defeat of

35:07

his hard line opponent followed campaign promises

35:09

of more personal freedoms

35:12

human rights and greater democracy. And

35:14

Hot Temi was really

35:15

important for the emphasis and

35:18

due emphasis

35:20

he gave to the rule of

35:22

law, to the language

35:23

of rights, to the language

35:25

of equality. Life is

35:28

so good. he

35:30

had programs for the protection

35:32

of the women and

35:34

he youth.

35:36

Are you happy?

35:36

He won the election?

35:38

Very much. very much. We choose him

35:40

because we believe in him.

35:42

I suppose that this is

35:44

gonna be a very nice future

35:46

for us. This

35:47

kind of sentiment was common.

35:50

I remember how excited my mom

35:52

was by this election. I remember how

35:54

excited the younger members of my

35:56

family were. it seemed like things were really gonna change in Iran

35:58

under Khotsami. And in some

36:00

ways, they did. So for

36:02

instance, under the

36:02

pre the the administration previous to

36:06

his there was a sort of office that

36:08

looked at women's affairs

36:10

mostly in the family. Kawtime

36:13

he elevated this to a ministerial position,

36:16

and he actually changed the name of the

36:18

position to the ministry

36:20

of women's

36:22

participation. So we move from the realm of

36:24

women being important to the family and family affairs to women being important

36:26

to public affairs, political

36:30

participation. But

36:32

the changes weren't

36:33

just in civil law and politics.

36:35

Things also changed

36:38

culturally.

36:39

I have cousins,

36:41

a brother and sister who were

36:43

detained

36:43

because they didn't look enough alike

36:45

and legally what what were

36:47

they doing together Once with hotami, this kind of

36:50

stuff stopped happening. Once a

36:52

jealable

36:52

offense, the Fores now turn a blind

36:54

eye. some social

36:56

freedoms with Khotsami were starting

36:58

to emerge. Young people could

37:00

walk together, but, you know, boyfriends and

37:02

girlfriends hold hands in public He

37:04

has promised more rights, more freedom, and a better

37:07

life within the Islamic system. During

37:09

the Khhatami

37:10

presidency, women

37:13

began pushing more and more against the dress code too. Fashion and

37:15

clothing started to resemble

37:16

the latest styles from other countries

37:18

around the world. Hajabs were

37:22

born more loosely. But the changes weren't just aesthetic.

37:24

And this was also a time where

37:26

more women were elected to parliament than

37:28

any time since the revolution.

37:31

and these elected officials didn't waste time.

37:34

They proposed laws

37:34

that would further strengthen the rights

37:36

of women in divorce

37:37

and protect them from

37:40

discrimination. They were bold.

37:42

This is around

37:43

when we started to see

37:45

a lot of pushback

37:47

to women's ability to

37:50

employ and make use

37:53

of the actual existing Iranian

37:56

constitution, and the set of civil

37:58

codes, enhance them and get

37:59

rights

38:02

and concessions.

38:04

Coming

38:09

up.

38:12

hotami Lee's

38:14

office, the cleric strike back,

38:16

and the morality police

38:18

come out.

38:20

Honey, this

38:20

is Mark Brown calling. You're

38:23

listening to the coolest show on NPR through Vine.

38:26

Thanks. Bye.

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39:16

Part three,

39:17

the regime

39:18

strikes back.

39:29

In

39:37

two thousand five, Mohammed

39:40

Khotsami left office after

39:42

serving two terms as president So Iranian voters

39:45

went to the polls and elected a new

39:47

president, a man who'd never

39:49

held national office. The

39:51

presidential candidate

39:54

who confounded all predictions.

39:56

is a religious conservative.

39:58

is a spout, hard

40:00

line, social

40:02

view. And

40:03

so when

40:05

Ahmed Inijal becomes

40:08

president, he actually campaigns on this

40:10

platform that really speaks

40:12

to a greater emphasis on

40:15

so called traditional roles what

40:17

some people might call conservative roles of

40:19

women as nurturers raising the

40:22

children and guiding

40:24

the

40:24

family. Ahamadinja took a much more conservative line

40:26

than Hotami. Under his rule, the

40:28

name of the office called the center

40:31

for women's participation changed again to the center for

40:33

women and family. They actually

40:36

had a contest. They

40:36

said we're gonna have a

40:39

new logo. We want people

40:41

to participate. And what

40:44

they emphasized in the logo

40:46

was we want people

40:48

to highlight women's relationship to

40:50

family, affairs, and children.

40:52

there's and children We

40:56

never want to

40:58

use the term woman,

41:00

zan, apart from

41:02

the expression of

41:03

women and fam, or women,

41:06

and

41:06

their

41:08

children. The first

41:09

thing I noticed was when I went to

41:11

Iran after Aetman di Nijan became

41:14

president was all of the

41:16

women who worked in

41:17

government offices were

41:19

now forced to wear

41:21

the full black cheddar. shudder

41:24

There is an uptake again of

41:27

women's bodily compartment,

41:30

their clothing, how

41:32

they express themselves in

41:34

public and a kind

41:36

of surveillance of women.

41:38

And women's tone, the way they

41:40

speak, the way they laugh, their attitudes

41:42

To be clear, the

41:44

surveillance also included violence.

41:47

Iran's morality police

41:50

force was established in the nineteen nineties to enforce social

41:52

rules, like proper hijack for

41:54

women. Under the Ahmadinajad administration,

41:59

they became more

41:59

aggressive in their enforcement, which

42:02

included arrests, alleged beatings,

42:05

and sometimes whashings. Disinforcement and other crackdowns on

42:07

newly won freedoms weren't popular with

42:10

people who

42:10

supported the reforms that happened

42:13

under Khotsami. Iranians

42:15

were not going to go

42:18

back. So in two thousand nine, when

42:20

Ahmadinajad won his

42:22

second term, protests erupted in what became known as

42:24

the green movement. The

42:25

incumbent Abdul Abdul Abdulja

42:27

is announced as the

42:30

overwhelming winner but many

42:32

Iranian refused to believe it.

42:34

After

42:34

a mass rally over charges of election

42:37

fraud, Protesters

42:38

defied Friday's orders from Iran's supreme

42:40

leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. That

42:52

was the voice

42:54

of Iran's cream leader Ayatollah Khamenei, basically

42:56

warning protesters that there would be

42:58

consequences, and there

43:00

were.

43:00

work Some

43:01

estimate millions of people

43:03

participated in the protest of the movement. Government forces

43:05

crackdown hard, killing people in the

43:07

street and arresting

43:10

thousands. The regime was

43:12

willing to go to great lengths to scale back

43:14

the reforms many people, including

43:16

women, had fought hard

43:20

to win. The

43:22

discursive policies

43:24

of the

43:25

state, which always

43:28

emphasize women make

43:30

women the signifiers of

43:32

much, much more of not just

43:34

the status of the country, but the

43:37

status of the revolution. Iran

43:39

is

43:39

a country that is

43:42

still

43:42

in a revolution.

43:46

If you

43:46

look at the constitution, it's the constitution

43:48

of the revolutionary Islamic

43:50

republic. And so the the

43:52

way that the women are dressed comes

43:55

to stand in for this timelessness

43:57

of the revolutionary struggle

43:59

and

43:59

so the

44:00

idea of women sort of Not

44:03

wearing this, what does that mean for our

44:06

incomplete revolutionary struggle that we're

44:08

fighting? And so

44:09

after the green movement was squashed

44:12

by government oppression.

44:13

The work of the morality police

44:15

went on, including

44:18

the surveillance. In

44:20

two thousand fifteen, I was I was taking a plane to a

44:22

a province in the north. And I

44:25

actually asked my friend, should I worry,

44:27

like, how how conservative It

44:30

was summer resort. Hot, do I have to wear socks with my

44:32

shoes? And he's like, oh, don't worry

44:34

about it. It's totally cool.

44:37

Everybody's relaxed. I get on

44:39

the plane and this gentleman

44:41

turns to me, looks at my feet

44:43

and says, oh, what about

44:45

your Islamic job? Nobody had

44:47

ever said anything to me in all my years of going

44:49

to Iran. And I said, excuse

44:52

me, who

44:54

are you? And he said, oh, no.

44:56

No. No. I'm I'm sorry. I don't mean to offend you in

44:58

any way, but you know, they told

45:00

us to

45:02

aunt Bemarouf. I said,

45:05

what's that? Oh, it's

45:07

a Islamic Maxim

45:10

or principal It's

45:12

been translated by many people as

45:16

commanding good. and

45:17

for bidding wrong.

45:20

At its worst,

45:21

it unleashes a sort

45:23

of vigilantism, or we can also see

45:25

it as akin to like you know,

45:27

good samaritan laws. If somebody's on the floor,

45:30

you know, bleeding, you you go

45:32

and help them. And the

45:34

gentleman in the row behind me said,

45:36

you're

45:36

right, Matt. them to me.

45:38

But don't say anything, just let it go.

45:41

They actually

45:42

made a law that

45:45

says, civilians

45:46

like other citizens or

45:48

people in Europe can come up to

45:51

you and say, hey, your hedgehog isn't

45:53

nice. And I

45:53

say this because it's very relevant to

45:56

the murder, the

45:57

alleged murder of

45:59

my Once

45:59

it was,

46:04

you know, brought to the

46:06

attention of this morality police, the gash to

46:09

air show The better term for this is guidance

46:11

police, and I think we can also see how

46:13

this is an echo of the

46:15

Vinay Atifaki, the

46:18

Guardian Ship. of the jurisprudence because one of the big

46:20

debates was what does it mean to be

46:22

a guide, a moral guide, or a more a

46:25

guardian of jurisprudence. Are

46:28

you just somebody who's there to,

46:30

like, suggest I change my

46:32

practices? Like, or are you there

46:34

with veto power. And I think

46:36

we know the answer to the Vela Etefate. Today, we

46:39

know very well.

46:40

What

46:44

this gash

46:45

to airshot unleashes now

46:50

is this

46:50

kind of policing of people's morality

46:54

and one, I was really struck

46:56

by one headline in Iran's

46:58

newspaper which is in very

47:00

black letters after the the death of

47:02

Massageena, Amini was

47:04

what where she guided.

47:08

Airshot shot

47:09

they should should

47:33

Iranian

47:33

women are some of the most educated

47:35

in the Middle East. They work

47:37

in every area of society.

47:40

Doctors, lawyers, members

47:42

of parliament, the clerics were never able to take those away.

47:44

But that doesn't mean they still aren't

47:46

trying to control women, and by extension,

47:49

the entire society. It's

47:52

a brutal cycle. People carve out more space

47:54

and rights, and the regime

47:56

tightens its grip and response.

47:59

We have to ask,

48:02

what does the

48:05

severe enforcement by

48:07

the state of women's dress

48:10

codes

48:10

mean

48:12

in contemporary Iran because

48:14

it's not just about Islam. It's

48:17

not just about the state.

48:20

It's about something greater

48:23

and it's about what

48:25

women not men, what

48:27

women signify for the

48:29

state beyond Iran, not just in

48:32

Iran. It's a

48:33

message about the

48:36

Iranian revolution. It's a a message beyond

48:39

even Iran's enemies. It's a

48:41

message to Iran's allies. It's a

48:43

message of the

48:46

revolutionary values that have guided

48:48

and led Iran's Islamic

48:50

Republic since nineteen seventy

48:54

nine. Most of the people

48:56

protesting

48:56

across Iran today were

48:58

born after the nineteen seventy nine

49:01

revolution, like me, two

49:04

generations who've only known life under an

49:06

authoritarian regime that has used

49:08

its own interpretation of Islamic law

49:10

and values to control Iran. None

49:13

of this is just about compulsory

49:16

his job. It's not even just about

49:18

women's rights. This is part

49:20

of a one hundred

49:22

year struggle by the Iranian people to assert individual

49:24

rights and humanity. But it has

49:26

always been the case that women have

49:28

been at the front of the struggle.

49:31

as the vanguard, just

49:34

as they are today.

49:46

no

49:49

then

49:54

the prepared and

49:56

that

50:07

That's it

50:11

for this

50:14

week's show. I'm I'm

50:17

Ramtina Abhui, and you've

50:17

been listening to Doeline from

50:20

NPR. This episode was produced by

50:22

me. And

50:24

me and Lauren Swoo.

50:26

Julie

50:26

Cain. Sonya Simberg. Yolanda

50:30

Sanguine, Casey

50:32

Feiner. Olivia

50:35

Chilcote. Fact checking for this episode was done by

50:37

Kevin Vogel. Thanks to

50:38

Deepa Mortacham and Deep

50:40

Parvaz for their voice over Thanks

50:44

also to Tamar Charney, Anja

50:45

Gruntman, Michael Ratner, Jerry

50:48

Holmes, Larry Kaplo, Seema

50:51

By Ram, and d Paribas for their assistance

50:53

with this episode. This

50:54

episode was mixed by James Willis.

50:56

Music for this

50:57

episode was composed by Ramaquin and his

50:59

band, Trump Electric. which

51:02

includes Anja Mizani.

51:03

Naveed Marvey, show Fujiwara.

51:06

And finally, if you have an idea

51:08

or like something you heard on the show, please

51:10

write us at dulineMPR dot org or

51:13

hit us up on Twitter at

51:16

dulineMPR. Thanks

51:18

for listening.